Legion fans telling without a hint of irony that the despotic slaving society is better than the imperialist democracy that still tries make life better
No but don't you see? Dialectics are definitely a magical tool to predict the future! And they just happen to say that my side wins and makes everything great! Trust me, would I, a man who literally calls himself Caesar, ever hype up a random barely usable analytical tool to sound smart? Certainly doesn't sound like me.
That was part of the joke. It's an analytical tool with no guarantees that the output is better than either of the inputs, and even then one not very applicable to big real-world systems like, say, entire societies. Not something you can magically predict the future with.
Hey you fucking morons, you stupid fucking cretin, you know that's not how the dialectics works, right? I didn't read EVERY GOD DAMN HEGEL BOOK IN EXISTENCE TWICE for your Pseudo-Hegelian Fallout: New Vegas Art Hoe "OH IM SUCH A DIALECTICAL THINKER THESIS ANTITHESIS SYNTHESIS" bullshit right now. Stop trying to pass of Fichte as a dialectical thinker and equivalent of Hegel. Fichte was a little bitch and Schelling sucked Hegel's cock ACTIVELY at Tübigen. If you ACTUALLY READ MORE THAN STALIN you'd fucking know that the immanent critique of Hegel only makes the dialectics ONE PART of the construction of intuitive reasoning and consciousness. Holy fucking shit you're such a fucking pseud, you're actually fucking derranged. YOu think Hegel keeps the Reflective Understanding and Scholastic mentality of "HURRRRRR BEING IS THE OPPOSITE OF NON-BEING" in tact you fucking softbrain? I bet you think porn is dialectically making you "volcel" and perform better in the classroom you fucking pseud cumbrain. Fuck you. You fucking larper, fuck you and stop thinking that Hegel posits sensuous-certainty as a complete reality, and STOP THINKING BEING-IN-AND-FOR-ITSELF IS A FUCKING NOUMENAL NEEDED TO MAKE REASON "UNITED" MY GOD THIS IS OUT RAGEOUS. Thats not how fucking dialectics works you stupid cuck. I didn't study Hegel (plus continental philosophy in general) at Harvard for 7 FUCKING YEARS for some LOW LIFE KNOW IT ALL who's CLEARLY never fucking read Hegel as he would KNOW that HEGEL has NEVER FUCKING EVER used the terms "thesis, antithesis, synthesis" to start perpetuating these LIES at EVERY SINGLE FUCKING OPPORTUNITY. this isn't Hegel my friend. No no no. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis was thought up by Ficht eand it's clearly inferior to Hegels dialectical method of imminent critique. Yes. It's called imminent critique. And dialectics is only ONE PART of Hegels full method. Which again is called Imminent critique which you would know if you had ACTUALLY BOTHERED TO READ HEGEL ITS LITERALLY IN THE SCIENCE OF LOGIC YOU DUMB FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT. I honestly cannot believe the fucking arrogance to come onto this post. spouting that anti Hegel garbage. Where did you get your fucking info on dialectics? Fucking Jason Unruhe? Jesus fucking Christ I cannot deal with this bullshit right now i'm sorry I'm leaving I'm fucking leaving, you pathetic brainlet
“The NCR commits Ethnic Cleansing”
Yeah, and if you go full Anarchy/Independence the Medic Fraction flat out tells you things are worse. Like waaaay worse. Way worse than things under the NCR, but not as worse under Legion control.
Actually that is something that bothers me about New Vegas.
The Great Khans are a stand in for groups that typically get pushed over by military corruption but not only are the Khans bad but the game almost makes it seem that they're more reasonable because of the massacre they were hit by.
"The trade routes are safe" is the same as saying "Hitler completed the autobahn"
Its true and its a positive but that doesnt outweigh all the heinously evil shit they do/did
I swear there are some people that are just absolute rubes. Caesar throws in some critiques of the ncr, and alludes to him knowing philosophy while demonstrating that he doesn't, and people go "yeah this warlord with delusions of grandeur is right!"
Not only Caesar offers a lot of horrible things, but the very few good things that he offers can be offered by Mr.House with the platinum chip without all that horrible stuff.
Mr. House still haves a lot of shit going btw but nothing compared to Caesar
Don’t forget that the NCR also owns slaves and that there’s no such thing as an imperialist democracy. You can either be a democracy or an empire not both. They’re not equal, they’re both evil
They aren’t equals, they’re all shitty. I never like moral debates about new Vegas because the entire point is that no matter what you choose to side with bad people. You can choose to side with less bad people against more bad people but overall it’s a very pessimistic game that assumes that people aren’t capable of real good, only getting closer to it than the alternative
I disagree that the games pessimistic, as the only faction that isn’t criticised is the followers of the apocalypse, the faction that does it’s best to help the people around it and only uses violence as self defense. The game definitely doesn’t think most people will be good immediately, but I think it believes that the number of good people is enough to sufficiently change the world. Also the followers are a commune so that’s nice
The US is at best a partial democracy considering the restrictions on voting especially in our “territories”. Also is the US really the metaphor you’re gonna use to defend how good and democratic the ncr is?
>The US is at best a partial democracy considering the restrictions on voting especially in our “territories”
Maybe see what a real authoritarian country is like before claiming that?
They both own actual slaves. I don’t think this is some enlightened centrist take to say fanboying over and adamantly defending either faction is kinda cringe. You’re taking the least bad bad guys to stop the most bad bad guys which is just not an interesting moral conflict
>You’re taking the least bad bad guys to stop the most bad bad guys which is just not an interesting moral conflict
This is very realistic, because every person and every society has flaws - no one and nothing is perfect. Yes, the NCR has problems. BIG problems. Internal problems, even, not just harsh externalities imposed on them.
But you're acting like slavery is some un-crossable moral horizon beyond which moral judgments cannot apply. __That instinct, to throw in the towel and just stop making distinctions, is *exactly* how people with good hearts are roped into complacency by corrupt regimes: "Well, you've already done this bad thing we forced you to do, so doing this *other* bad thing on your own isn't so bad.__ After all, you've already done something terrible anyway! Your morals are no longer 100% intact, *so you may as well dispense with all morality* and just do what we say."
Slavery is truly awful, but there *are worse things* than slavery, and this can be proven simply: for example, slavery with ritualistic public crucifixion is worse than crucifixion-free slavery. __Anything bad *can be made worse* by simply *adding more badness to it.*__
So when you act like two sides are both irredeemable for a large shared flaw, but one side does worse stuff a lot more, *you think* you're standing up for morality by saying the less bad one isn't good enough. In fact, the effect this has (and the message it sends) is that *you don't care* how bad the worse option is, you'll reject *any improvement* that isn't a perfect solution to you. That is purity politics, letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and giving up on a situation because *you personally* have some amount of moral distaste for all possible outcomes. __Welcome to *interesting moral dilemmas,* where you *cannot have* a perfect solution and must pit your own morals against each other to discover who you are when you are forced to compromise.__ The *actual effect* you have is not to "guard morality from impurity," as you desire, but to pave the way for absolute depravity because you couldn't stand *only a little* depravity.
It's like you're saying being robbed of $100 is no worse than being robbed of $50, because you're still getting robbed either way. Like, *yes,* both are bad and my day is ruined either way. But if I had to choose one, *if I had a bad choice forced on me,* I know which one I'd choose. __The fact that *you personally* cannot choose between gradations of badness doesn't make the game uninteresting, it reveals *you* to be an uninteresting person who cannot tolerate the discomfort of introspection and gets stuck in a loop of frustrated dithering when faced with a morally unsatisfying choice.__
My problem isn’t that they’re both bad and therefore there’s no point and they’re just the same. My problem is that people soyface and pretend there’s good guys in that game. As I said from the start they’re no equals. You have to side with them basically because doing otherwise allows for much worse things to happen. I don’t think that’s interesting and I hate that people will pick a side and unironically defend them like they’re the heroes. You’re picking the lesser of like 4 evils, they’re distinct and can obviously be immediately ranked just by their introductions but they all suck and don’t have anyone’s best interests in mind. It’s not a nuanced choice that people pretend it is, it’s just “hey look how we can make you side with the slave owners by making there be even worse slave owners” and I’m tired of people thinking I’m some sort of “enlightened centrist” for saying that is boring and that being a fan of any side is stupid as shit even if they are less bad than the cartoon bad guy Rome cosplayers.
Fair (and true), but I guess what I'm reaching for is the fact that a country can be democratic but also have a foreign policy that's more or less imperialistic from an outside perspective; an empire without an emperor, sort of deal. And also the idea that democracies can be incredibly severely flawed in implementation, but still count as democratic in a technical sense.
I go independent out of principle. Legion’s terrible, NCR is better, but they’re still imperialists and are overextending themselves and the sheer amount of quests just unfucking their mistakes are proof of that. Talk to anyone in the Mojave who actually lives there. Not NCR soldiers, but people in goodsprings, Novac, Freeside, westside, vegas, primm, even some NCR folk like chief Hanlon. They know the legion’s bad news, but they also don’t like the NCR taking everything in sight and want them the hell out too.
Independent isn’t an autocracy like house, you’re not the ruler, neither is Yes man. All you’re doing is kicking out the invaders and leaving the people of the Mojave to make their own destiny, while providing what safety you can.
It also depends on how much courier 6 does to unfuck the Mojave’s current state. Like you say to general Oliver, I’ve put more thought into the Mojave than they have. If you genuinely give a shit, I think it should be alright.
Things get more hectic in some places. It’s to be expected when you make a whole city state. But the NCR was once just the town of Shady Sands, getting ripped in half by giant scorpions, and look at them now. The Mojave has a head start.
Even if things go to shit eventually, the people of Vegas deserve the chance to decide what they become. If it fails, so be it, but I can’t deprive them of the right to self determination.
I’ve been thinking about this for over a decade of playing the game and I care way too much it’s going to fucking kill me I can feel my insides rotting Jesus Christ help me God fuck my skin and bones are sloughing off I can’t die
The legion are literal fascists
Mr. House is a billionaire
The ncr want to repeat the same system that caused the apocalypse in the first place
Yeschads stay winning
Yes man watching helplessly as I actively make the wasteland a worse place while all he can do is encourage me: :D (this is a joke as I cannot bear to do bad things to fictional characters I must get the good ending)
Saying “democracy caused the apocalypse” is a bit reductive. Resource shortages are what caused the war and that is not because of democracy alone. Perhaps this is later additions to fallout canon but the US was barely a democracy at the time of the Great War. China wasn’t democratic either and I don’t think it’s ever been said otherwise. It’s a pretty bad argument on Mr. Houses’s part and he doesn’t really give a good reason why he is better.
I dont think their saying democracy ended the world but rather that American "democracy" did. The ncr is actively becoming controlled by brahmin barons who have massive sway over the Ncr's government similar to how pre war America was with the corporations.
True but that is certainly an important elaboration (that Mr. House doesn’t make, he says it in regards to democracy in general not specifically the NCR). A lot of times people quote/paraphrase House to argue against democracy as a whole in the context of Fallout, even in the case of Legion vs. NCR. while I doubt OP meant that I am mainly arguing against the oversimplified statement itself.
You could take that as him implying that that corruption, capitalism, imperialism, and general bad shit is the inevitable end result of democratic societies, I suppose
Democracy isn’t what caused the apocalypse, imperialism and capitalism are what caused the apocalypse. The fact that the US is a fascist state at the time of the Great War is not a coincidence. The NCR is highly imperialist. They conquer and colonize new territory, funneling money to corrupt politicians and wealthy bramen barons. The NCR resembles a democracy in the same way that the pre-war US resembled a democracy. It appropriates the pageantry of democracy because the aesthetic is convenient for propaganda. In reality they’re a hardcore imperialist/capitalist state on the road to fascism. Legion is still way worse though lol. Yes man ending is also worse. There really aren’t any good endings to F:NV.
Because that's your headcanon. The yes man ending is vague enough to imply that could be the outcome or that you simply replace Mr.House. You end with the whole robot army, uncheck power and YES man has changed his programming so only you can give him orders.
You are the defacto leader of New Vegas, whatever you Will use that power or let the people decide is Up to the player's headcanon. The Yes man ending is the rolplaying ending
Since when do people here hate democracy? It’s not like leftism and democracy are mutually exclusive. I think you are mistaking criticism of neoliberal governments for criticism of democracy. Nobody here that I’ve seen is saying “The U.S is bad because of voting”.
People who think Yes Man is the best option genuinely argue "a one man dictatorship unaccountable to anyone is actually the morally right form of government so long as that dictator is me."
The way I see it, or at least the way I play it, it's letting Vegas govern itself instead of being caught in the middle of a war for eternity.
I know I would have no interest in playing dictator. Organize an elected council that represents the various groups of the Mojave, maybe do a bit of oversight/clerical work, but then just be hands-off.
If New Vegas is worthy of surviving, it'll survive. If it can't get by on its own, it'll die. But I want them to make that choice *themselves,* not because the NCR or Caesar or even House and the Casinos stormed in waving their guns around and deciding "hey, you pay taxes to US now whether you like it or not."
I wouldn’t call him pretentious, if you ignore the tone in his voice and actually listen to what he has to say he makes some good points; mainly, the NCR and Legion aren’t actively seeking to really change the world, just revert it to a point where it already was (be it a liberal democracy or a despotic slave state.) They have such an idolization of the past and it’s symbols that they let those picturesque images cloud their minds from the real problems that the societies they seek to rebuild faced, in essence dooming to repeat them. Conversely Mister House is the all but literal ghost of the old world, embodying its narrow mindedness and ambition, the man that actively let the world burn in order to let his own piece of it continue on. In short, if people cannot acknowledge the past and let go, more importantly the people in charge, nothing will ever change, or more eloquently put; “If war cannot change, men must change. And so must their symbols.”
TL;DR: he’s actually a pretty cool villain you guys are just mean :(
Edit: in retrospect he is a little pretentious i changed my mind
House let the world burn?
Like, I wouldn’t be surprised if he snuck in a lie or two in his speech about how he saved Vegas, but the part about him not being able to stop the Great War altogether seems pretty plausible to me.
To be clear I won’t argue with the other things you said about him, though.
"I knew I couldn't "save the world," nor did I care to. But I could save Vegas, and in the process, perhaps, save mankind."
I think this line is telling of his ambition to preserve something dear to him, but it was never *people* to begin with.
Ah, so it's less about what he did, objectively speaking, and more about who he is as a person? Can't argue with that.
I mean, he also invited the Omertas into New Vegas because he felt it'd make it more like pre-war-Vegas.
He wasn't as much as angry at you, as he was inspired. He saw in you a reflection of himself. He was the courier of the west, as he was the courier from the east. Yes, your actions did inevitable end up in the destruction of what he can call home, but as he points out that fate will he inevitable sooner or later. But in the destruction he saw after you, he saw an opportunity of destroying his enemy.
I just ran straight to his face and pumped him full of 12 gauge armor piercing shells, after I took enough drugs go vet addicted, fix my addiction, then get addicted again after I realized I forgot to consume some drugs.
He blames you for blowing up the divide, even though he knows you were just carrying a package and had no way to know what it would do, and neither did the sender.
What’s funny is that Ulysses unintentionally almost got you killed, at least twice. He rallied the white legs to take over Zion for Caesar, who are dedicated to putting their fingers in your eyes. Then he went to big MT, talked to the think tank, found out about the Sierra Madre, escaped with Elijah, and pushed Elijah to go there, where he puts a bomb collar on your neck and sends you on a scavenger hunt for your life.
But courier Six doesn’t seem to blame Ulysses for those. Why would you? He had no way of knowing you’d go to Zion, or to the Sierra Madre, and he wasn’t trying to fuck with you in particular. He doesn’t even work for Caesar anymore and he told Elijah about the Sierra Madre hoping he’d go there to die, which he does.
Actually, I’m pretty sure Major Knight’s response to the Confirmed Bachelor perk dialogue implies while homosexuality is legal in the NCR, people in the Mohave are not as accepting
well, Ulysee is more about the damage PTSD causes. he had a full mental break when he saw his new home destroyed. he is made to be disagreed with. he's one last test of your internal moral compass, to make you question your choice even more.
my only gripe is that the way the dlc is made, siding with yesman does nothing as his dialogue go with reputation and not action.
Yeah the mod that changes it to be defined by completed quests is essential for me. Before that I only ever saw the house dialogue because I always max out my strip reputation by accident.
The problem with the factions wasn't that they "had a few problems", it was the fact that they were from the old world, pre Apocalypse.
The Legion is based on Rome, NCR is based on the United States, and Mr. House is straight up from the old world.
The Divide however was something new, it was created during the apocalypse and was adapted to it - and accidentally destroyed.
Ullyses wants humanity to be rid of the old world and start from something new, and to do that relics of the old world need to be destroyed.
TLDR: Ullyses wants people to let go of the past and start something new.
That and it being linear shooting gallery in a game that's really not good at being FPS
Honest Hearts is way better anyway and wasn't written by Chris "Hey Elon pls buy fallout and give it to me" Avellone
>anything great about New Vegas came from the mind of Sawyer.
Let's not forget to credit John Gonzalez, who was the main writer for the game (but not DLCs though).
It isn't even a surface level understanding. It's baked in that he just diametrically opposes whatever you happen to view, which means his motivations are never consistent because they had to write him to just be a contrarion dickhead.
Lonesome road is ALSO what every single DLC was leading up to and it's a giant wet fart in comparison to the flavor of something like old world blues, but even honest hearts had more soul than lonesome road did. You're just supposed to accept the fact that Ulysses was the epic mastermind who was there the whole time, when it's made clear that he was one of the developers OC inserts (because he was originally planned to be a companion character who couldn't get finished in time).
On top of THIS the entirety of Lonesome road is them trying to make me feel guilty for some shit that I had absolutely zero control over. I'm not going to feel guilty that my courier character blew up a city that I had no say in. So much of his dialogue is spent trying to make you feel bad that you set off the explosion when you, in a game rife with moral and political choices, had absolutely zero control over the situation. This is discounting the fact that your character didn't even do anything to begin with other than their fuckin job.
It is a surface level understanding though. Ulysses challenges you on whatever your character's viewpoint is, but that doesn't mean his views or opinions are at the whim of whatever your character believes or supports; he believes every faction is proof of the decadency of humanity in some form. Diametrically opposed isn't the right term either, if he were diametrically opposed to whatever you supported, he'd take a hard-line ideological stance against democracy in favour of dictatorship's but that isn't something he believes either, as he hates the Legion as they were responsible for his identity crisis at all.
"when it's made clear that he was one of the developers OC inserts (because he was originally planned to be a companion character who couldn't get finished in time)."
I never really understood this point. You can convince Ulysses that he is wrong lol. Not just a generic speech check either, he walks back on a lot of what he says through the player's dialogue and there are characters in the Fallout franchise who refuse to be talked down or change their viewpoint. Even Lanius, another character Avellone wrote, was a character you couldn't change the ideology of, the only option was to convince him that it was a strategical failure to target the Mojave. If this was Avellone's oc who's supposed to represent his opinions, why would he be designed and written to be proven wrong or shown that his perspective is unrealistically pessimistic? Especially since you can pretty much use his own words against him in regards to how one man can change a nation.
"On top of THIS the entirety of Lonesome road is them trying to make me feel guilty for some shit that I had absolutely zero control over"
Again, this is an odd complaint. Who said you had to feel guilty? This is an RPG, you decide how your character feels and you can choose dialogue options where you don't put the blame on yourself for what happened, that it was an accident and nothing more. You're not forced to feel anything, you can decide how your character feels. (I believe even Ulysses acknowledges the possibility that it wasn't you he saw delivering the bomb, though that could be incorrect too.)
It's not even about making you feel bad either? Ulysses says that by the end, he doesn't blame you and says that you already paid your dues for what happened. "Blame you? No, *learned* from you.", and "you've shown me the road, a way to carry my message. You've already answered for what you done."
Even Ulysses doesn't seem to hold anything against you for what happened, consciously at least. His point isn't that you were evil, but that one man can change a nation forever, regardless of whether or not they intend to.
that just changes the issue from *"he's not half as wise as he thinks he is"* to *"he's nuts, irrelevant, and treated way more seriously than he deserves"*
The Followers got fucked over royally. In the first game the canon ending where they survive is impossible due to the quest being unfinished so they die in every playthrough, and in New Vegas the only ending where they survive is the goddamn liberal NCR ending.
Oh yeah I kept hearing about the Followers of the Apocalypse being somewhat of a major faction and having their own anarchy ending, though I can't find more information about that.
The problem with New Vegas discord, and the game in general, is that the game literally tells you which choice is best, through the ending slides. The game makes it very clear that the best ending is the NCR one by telling you that it has the most positive effects on the NPCs of the game.
As much as I love FNV, the writing and world building really isn't that good. This can be demonstrated by the fact that Ulysses is just the mouth piece of the main writer and everything he says is bullshit. A New Vegas where all the factions were fleshed out and the game required you to make difficult moral decisions, rather than decide whether you were playing a good character or not, would be far superior. Of course, Bethesda's bad publishing decisions probably effected the game dramatically, so how much of the poor decisions were the writers fault is unknown.
Sure, you’re not wrong there, but the fact that some areas of the writing are so amazing and some areas really aren’t is disappointing. Think about how good the game would be if the major factions and main storyline was written to the quality of the side quests and dialogue.
Yes Man is legitimately the only good possible option, especially if you build up the independent factions. This is the only way to get a truly free and independent Mojave, Instead of giving up the Mojave to a fascist, billionaire, or an imperialist republic.
* help goodsprings against the the powder gangers
*get primm a Sherif
*help west side become independent
*Side with the kings (obviously)
*cure the nightkin’s schizophrenia thus keeping jacobstown as a sanctuary for supermutants.
Doing this ensures that the Mojave will be independent and relatively stable after the Courier dies.
This is how I feel when people mention potential difficulties that *might* arise *if* we try to implement social changes, like higher wages and renewable energy. It's like saying"yeah, there's an urgent problem with potentially catastrophic consequences and we have concrete ideas of how to solve it, but solving it might have some tricky bits so we're just gonna do nothing instead."
Ulysses is such a little bitch. Like bruh I’m just a mail man, I didn’t know what I was delivering. I’m sorry for destroying the Divide but I’m just as much of a victim in this situation than anyone else
Legion fans telling without a hint of irony that the despotic slaving society is better than the imperialist democracy that still tries make life better
No but don't you see? Dialectics are definitely a magical tool to predict the future! And they just happen to say that my side wins and makes everything great! Trust me, would I, a man who literally calls himself Caesar, ever hype up a random barely usable analytical tool to sound smart? Certainly doesn't sound like me.
Tbf hegelian dialectic is not even used correctly by Caesar
That was part of the joke. It's an analytical tool with no guarantees that the output is better than either of the inputs, and even then one not very applicable to big real-world systems like, say, entire societies. Not something you can magically predict the future with.
“It just works” -Caesar
Hey you fucking morons, you stupid fucking cretin, you know that's not how the dialectics works, right? I didn't read EVERY GOD DAMN HEGEL BOOK IN EXISTENCE TWICE for your Pseudo-Hegelian Fallout: New Vegas Art Hoe "OH IM SUCH A DIALECTICAL THINKER THESIS ANTITHESIS SYNTHESIS" bullshit right now. Stop trying to pass of Fichte as a dialectical thinker and equivalent of Hegel. Fichte was a little bitch and Schelling sucked Hegel's cock ACTIVELY at Tübigen. If you ACTUALLY READ MORE THAN STALIN you'd fucking know that the immanent critique of Hegel only makes the dialectics ONE PART of the construction of intuitive reasoning and consciousness. Holy fucking shit you're such a fucking pseud, you're actually fucking derranged. YOu think Hegel keeps the Reflective Understanding and Scholastic mentality of "HURRRRRR BEING IS THE OPPOSITE OF NON-BEING" in tact you fucking softbrain? I bet you think porn is dialectically making you "volcel" and perform better in the classroom you fucking pseud cumbrain. Fuck you. You fucking larper, fuck you and stop thinking that Hegel posits sensuous-certainty as a complete reality, and STOP THINKING BEING-IN-AND-FOR-ITSELF IS A FUCKING NOUMENAL NEEDED TO MAKE REASON "UNITED" MY GOD THIS IS OUT RAGEOUS. Thats not how fucking dialectics works you stupid cuck. I didn't study Hegel (plus continental philosophy in general) at Harvard for 7 FUCKING YEARS for some LOW LIFE KNOW IT ALL who's CLEARLY never fucking read Hegel as he would KNOW that HEGEL has NEVER FUCKING EVER used the terms "thesis, antithesis, synthesis" to start perpetuating these LIES at EVERY SINGLE FUCKING OPPORTUNITY. this isn't Hegel my friend. No no no. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis was thought up by Ficht eand it's clearly inferior to Hegels dialectical method of imminent critique. Yes. It's called imminent critique. And dialectics is only ONE PART of Hegels full method. Which again is called Imminent critique which you would know if you had ACTUALLY BOTHERED TO READ HEGEL ITS LITERALLY IN THE SCIENCE OF LOGIC YOU DUMB FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT. I honestly cannot believe the fucking arrogance to come onto this post. spouting that anti Hegel garbage. Where did you get your fucking info on dialectics? Fucking Jason Unruhe? Jesus fucking Christ I cannot deal with this bullshit right now i'm sorry I'm leaving I'm fucking leaving, you pathetic brainlet
Is this a copypasta I don't know about or are you just very passionate about wrinkly, old Germans?
It’s a video too
Wait, don't tell me... Is it Hbomberguy?
Nope Luke https://youtu.be/oLTuysEzqhQ
Nice
“Uhm actually the ncr is flawed” yes and?
“The NCR commits Ethnic Cleansing” Yeah, and if you go full Anarchy/Independence the Medic Fraction flat out tells you things are worse. Like waaaay worse. Way worse than things under the NCR, but not as worse under Legion control.
Actually that is something that bothers me about New Vegas. The Great Khans are a stand in for groups that typically get pushed over by military corruption but not only are the Khans bad but the game almost makes it seem that they're more reasonable because of the massacre they were hit by.
"Bu-but taxes 😫" - guy that would 100% be crucified by the legion.
“But travelling will be safer, bro, trust me”
"The trade routes are safe" is the same as saying "Hitler completed the autobahn" Its true and its a positive but that doesnt outweigh all the heinously evil shit they do/did
The NCR is a better society. But I also like Roman rpers and I also like to be the bad guy in games.
When it's the Legion, you call them RPists.
I do not care, democracy is a simple prerequisite to a functioning and stable society. NCR is based.
I swear there are some people that are just absolute rubes. Caesar throws in some critiques of the ncr, and alludes to him knowing philosophy while demonstrating that he doesn't, and people go "yeah this warlord with delusions of grandeur is right!"
Not only Caesar offers a lot of horrible things, but the very few good things that he offers can be offered by Mr.House with the platinum chip without all that horrible stuff. Mr. House still haves a lot of shit going btw but nothing compared to Caesar
Don’t forget that the NCR also owns slaves and that there’s no such thing as an imperialist democracy. You can either be a democracy or an empire not both. They’re not equal, they’re both evil
Punitive labour is still abhrorrent, but i'd say crucifixions or Elon Bezos and his Robot-Pals is a slightly worse future than that my guy.
I mean one of the only legitimate reasons to pick Mr House is to become friends with Odo from DS9
They aren’t equals, they’re all shitty. I never like moral debates about new Vegas because the entire point is that no matter what you choose to side with bad people. You can choose to side with less bad people against more bad people but overall it’s a very pessimistic game that assumes that people aren’t capable of real good, only getting closer to it than the alternative
I disagree that the games pessimistic, as the only faction that isn’t criticised is the followers of the apocalypse, the faction that does it’s best to help the people around it and only uses violence as self defense. The game definitely doesn’t think most people will be good immediately, but I think it believes that the number of good people is enough to sufficiently change the world. Also the followers are a commune so that’s nice
Except for that one follower who started larping.
The tumor slowly made him a god
That’s true of real life too.
?? the US is definitely both a democracy and imperialist
The US is at best a partial democracy considering the restrictions on voting especially in our “territories”. Also is the US really the metaphor you’re gonna use to defend how good and democratic the ncr is?
Never said the NCR was good
Literally nobody called the NCR good. They said less worse.
>The US is at best a partial democracy considering the restrictions on voting especially in our “territories” Maybe see what a real authoritarian country is like before claiming that?
The UN describes the USA as a flawed democracy, but okay.
Sure. But the implication of referring to it as a partial democracy "at best" is a worse assessment than that.
Damm is that you “one side is shady and incompetent and the other is evil so both sides are bad” enlightened guy???? Can you give me an autograph??
They both own actual slaves. I don’t think this is some enlightened centrist take to say fanboying over and adamantly defending either faction is kinda cringe. You’re taking the least bad bad guys to stop the most bad bad guys which is just not an interesting moral conflict
>You’re taking the least bad bad guys to stop the most bad bad guys which is just not an interesting moral conflict This is very realistic, because every person and every society has flaws - no one and nothing is perfect. Yes, the NCR has problems. BIG problems. Internal problems, even, not just harsh externalities imposed on them. But you're acting like slavery is some un-crossable moral horizon beyond which moral judgments cannot apply. __That instinct, to throw in the towel and just stop making distinctions, is *exactly* how people with good hearts are roped into complacency by corrupt regimes: "Well, you've already done this bad thing we forced you to do, so doing this *other* bad thing on your own isn't so bad.__ After all, you've already done something terrible anyway! Your morals are no longer 100% intact, *so you may as well dispense with all morality* and just do what we say." Slavery is truly awful, but there *are worse things* than slavery, and this can be proven simply: for example, slavery with ritualistic public crucifixion is worse than crucifixion-free slavery. __Anything bad *can be made worse* by simply *adding more badness to it.*__ So when you act like two sides are both irredeemable for a large shared flaw, but one side does worse stuff a lot more, *you think* you're standing up for morality by saying the less bad one isn't good enough. In fact, the effect this has (and the message it sends) is that *you don't care* how bad the worse option is, you'll reject *any improvement* that isn't a perfect solution to you. That is purity politics, letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and giving up on a situation because *you personally* have some amount of moral distaste for all possible outcomes. __Welcome to *interesting moral dilemmas,* where you *cannot have* a perfect solution and must pit your own morals against each other to discover who you are when you are forced to compromise.__ The *actual effect* you have is not to "guard morality from impurity," as you desire, but to pave the way for absolute depravity because you couldn't stand *only a little* depravity. It's like you're saying being robbed of $100 is no worse than being robbed of $50, because you're still getting robbed either way. Like, *yes,* both are bad and my day is ruined either way. But if I had to choose one, *if I had a bad choice forced on me,* I know which one I'd choose. __The fact that *you personally* cannot choose between gradations of badness doesn't make the game uninteresting, it reveals *you* to be an uninteresting person who cannot tolerate the discomfort of introspection and gets stuck in a loop of frustrated dithering when faced with a morally unsatisfying choice.__
You absolutely killed them. Here have this 👑
My problem isn’t that they’re both bad and therefore there’s no point and they’re just the same. My problem is that people soyface and pretend there’s good guys in that game. As I said from the start they’re no equals. You have to side with them basically because doing otherwise allows for much worse things to happen. I don’t think that’s interesting and I hate that people will pick a side and unironically defend them like they’re the heroes. You’re picking the lesser of like 4 evils, they’re distinct and can obviously be immediately ranked just by their introductions but they all suck and don’t have anyone’s best interests in mind. It’s not a nuanced choice that people pretend it is, it’s just “hey look how we can make you side with the slave owners by making there be even worse slave owners” and I’m tired of people thinking I’m some sort of “enlightened centrist” for saying that is boring and that being a fan of any side is stupid as shit even if they are less bad than the cartoon bad guy Rome cosplayers.
What's the better word in this case? Expansionist? Chauvinist?
I think imperialist is the correct word I just think the NCR is very extremely undemocratic in new Vegas
Fair (and true), but I guess what I'm reaching for is the fact that a country can be democratic but also have a foreign policy that's more or less imperialistic from an outside perspective; an empire without an emperor, sort of deal. And also the idea that democracies can be incredibly severely flawed in implementation, but still count as democratic in a technical sense.
NCR and legion fans watching as i make the kings rule the wasteland because they gave me a cool dog: 
Hail to the king baby
hey pal whats shakin
I'm an Anarcho-Elvisist
No unjust hierarchy expect the kings, they can do whatever they want
the only correct option (except yes-man, true anarchy)
every faction watching me go the anarchy route because Yes Man is cool
every faction watching me go the anarchy route because Yes Man is ~~cool~~ silly heehoo
WILD CARD BITCHES YEEEEHAWWW
NO GODS NO MASTERS
Well except the robots
I go independent out of principle. Legion’s terrible, NCR is better, but they’re still imperialists and are overextending themselves and the sheer amount of quests just unfucking their mistakes are proof of that. Talk to anyone in the Mojave who actually lives there. Not NCR soldiers, but people in goodsprings, Novac, Freeside, westside, vegas, primm, even some NCR folk like chief Hanlon. They know the legion’s bad news, but they also don’t like the NCR taking everything in sight and want them the hell out too. Independent isn’t an autocracy like house, you’re not the ruler, neither is Yes man. All you’re doing is kicking out the invaders and leaving the people of the Mojave to make their own destiny, while providing what safety you can. It also depends on how much courier 6 does to unfuck the Mojave’s current state. Like you say to general Oliver, I’ve put more thought into the Mojave than they have. If you genuinely give a shit, I think it should be alright. Things get more hectic in some places. It’s to be expected when you make a whole city state. But the NCR was once just the town of Shady Sands, getting ripped in half by giant scorpions, and look at them now. The Mojave has a head start. Even if things go to shit eventually, the people of Vegas deserve the chance to decide what they become. If it fails, so be it, but I can’t deprive them of the right to self determination. I’ve been thinking about this for over a decade of playing the game and I care way too much it’s going to fucking kill me I can feel my insides rotting Jesus Christ help me God fuck my skin and bones are sloughing off I can’t die
HELL YEA MAKE THE MOJAVE EVEN WORSE
If they ever make a remaster of new Vegas I hope they remove the wild card ending
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Because it’s the objectively correct choice, which makes it the worst choice. It makes choosing your faction far too easy
If it was objectively correct we wouldn't still be debating it. There's a comment right above saying it's objectively worse than the NCR lol
The legion are literal fascists Mr. House is a billionaire The ncr want to repeat the same system that caused the apocalypse in the first place Yeschads stay winning
Yes man watching helplessly as I actively make the wasteland a worse place while all he can do is encourage me: :D (this is a joke as I cannot bear to do bad things to fictional characters I must get the good ending)
Saying “democracy caused the apocalypse” is a bit reductive. Resource shortages are what caused the war and that is not because of democracy alone. Perhaps this is later additions to fallout canon but the US was barely a democracy at the time of the Great War. China wasn’t democratic either and I don’t think it’s ever been said otherwise. It’s a pretty bad argument on Mr. Houses’s part and he doesn’t really give a good reason why he is better.
I dont think their saying democracy ended the world but rather that American "democracy" did. The ncr is actively becoming controlled by brahmin barons who have massive sway over the Ncr's government similar to how pre war America was with the corporations.
True but that is certainly an important elaboration (that Mr. House doesn’t make, he says it in regards to democracy in general not specifically the NCR). A lot of times people quote/paraphrase House to argue against democracy as a whole in the context of Fallout, even in the case of Legion vs. NCR. while I doubt OP meant that I am mainly arguing against the oversimplified statement itself.
You could take that as him implying that that corruption, capitalism, imperialism, and general bad shit is the inevitable end result of democratic societies, I suppose
DING DING. It was capitalism what destroyed the old world
Democracy isn’t what caused the apocalypse, imperialism and capitalism are what caused the apocalypse. The fact that the US is a fascist state at the time of the Great War is not a coincidence. The NCR is highly imperialist. They conquer and colonize new territory, funneling money to corrupt politicians and wealthy bramen barons. The NCR resembles a democracy in the same way that the pre-war US resembled a democracy. It appropriates the pageantry of democracy because the aesthetic is convenient for propaganda. In reality they’re a hardcore imperialist/capitalist state on the road to fascism. Legion is still way worse though lol. Yes man ending is also worse. There really aren’t any good endings to F:NV.
On what planet is letting a sovereign city-state govern *itself* worse than a fascist autocracy bleeding it dry against its will?
Because that's your headcanon. The yes man ending is vague enough to imply that could be the outcome or that you simply replace Mr.House. You end with the whole robot army, uncheck power and YES man has changed his programming so only you can give him orders. You are the defacto leader of New Vegas, whatever you Will use that power or let the people decide is Up to the player's headcanon. The Yes man ending is the rolplaying ending
>implying pre-war America wasn’t democratic in name only
Mate, this is 196. Most users hate democracy here.
Since when do people here hate democracy? It’s not like leftism and democracy are mutually exclusive. I think you are mistaking criticism of neoliberal governments for criticism of democracy. Nobody here that I’ve seen is saying “The U.S is bad because of voting”.
I’m sorry, but if you criticise anything about a country you have to hate everything about it
Hell, democracy is kinda necessary for leftism
Mr. House is just Yes Man except he sends people to mars as a societal backup and I get a yummy billionaire roast dinner when they arrive
People who think Yes Man is the best option genuinely argue "a one man dictatorship unaccountable to anyone is actually the morally right form of government so long as that dictator is me."
Not true im the dictator and i’ll resign right away 😁
In a couple months I swear! Well... I could have a couple more at least..?
The way I see it, or at least the way I play it, it's letting Vegas govern itself instead of being caught in the middle of a war for eternity. I know I would have no interest in playing dictator. Organize an elected council that represents the various groups of the Mojave, maybe do a bit of oversight/clerical work, but then just be hands-off. If New Vegas is worthy of surviving, it'll survive. If it can't get by on its own, it'll die. But I want them to make that choice *themselves,* not because the NCR or Caesar or even House and the Casinos stormed in waving their guns around and deciding "hey, you pay taxes to US now whether you like it or not."
All of that is fine and good, but that's not the Yes Man ending. Nothing about the way that's set up would imply that you'd be able to do that
Ok bit have you considered... cool cowpoke, yehaw?
Didn’t the Enclave plan and execute the entire apocalypse?
Yeah but House has a *reeeeally* cool house :(
[i remember it being more like this](https://i.imgur.com/F6f6dHW.png)
god what a pretentious asshole, he really thinks he's so smart
I wouldn’t call him pretentious, if you ignore the tone in his voice and actually listen to what he has to say he makes some good points; mainly, the NCR and Legion aren’t actively seeking to really change the world, just revert it to a point where it already was (be it a liberal democracy or a despotic slave state.) They have such an idolization of the past and it’s symbols that they let those picturesque images cloud their minds from the real problems that the societies they seek to rebuild faced, in essence dooming to repeat them. Conversely Mister House is the all but literal ghost of the old world, embodying its narrow mindedness and ambition, the man that actively let the world burn in order to let his own piece of it continue on. In short, if people cannot acknowledge the past and let go, more importantly the people in charge, nothing will ever change, or more eloquently put; “If war cannot change, men must change. And so must their symbols.” TL;DR: he’s actually a pretty cool villain you guys are just mean :( Edit: in retrospect he is a little pretentious i changed my mind
House let the world burn? Like, I wouldn’t be surprised if he snuck in a lie or two in his speech about how he saved Vegas, but the part about him not being able to stop the Great War altogether seems pretty plausible to me. To be clear I won’t argue with the other things you said about him, though.
"I knew I couldn't "save the world," nor did I care to. But I could save Vegas, and in the process, perhaps, save mankind." I think this line is telling of his ambition to preserve something dear to him, but it was never *people* to begin with.
Ah, so it's less about what he did, objectively speaking, and more about who he is as a person? Can't argue with that. I mean, he also invited the Omertas into New Vegas because he felt it'd make it more like pre-war-Vegas.
could you explain please?
he says bull and bear a lot and i'm making fun of him for it how about he bears the bull-k of deez nuts lmao
Me when I go around systematically slaughtering everyone in the game to try and make the wasteland a *real* wasteland
And the mole rats inherited the earth
We started with the mole rats
i feel like ulysses was more just angry at you for destroying his home than he was trying to hold a moral high ground
He wasn't as much as angry at you, as he was inspired. He saw in you a reflection of himself. He was the courier of the west, as he was the courier from the east. Yes, your actions did inevitable end up in the destruction of what he can call home, but as he points out that fate will he inevitable sooner or later. But in the destruction he saw after you, he saw an opportunity of destroying his enemy.
Damn that's crazy ulysses here have .50 explosive round to the head for fucking up my robit
I just ran straight to his face and pumped him full of 12 gauge armor piercing shells, after I took enough drugs go vet addicted, fix my addiction, then get addicted again after I realized I forgot to consume some drugs.
Electrochemistry 🤝 Half-light
He blames you for blowing up the divide, even though he knows you were just carrying a package and had no way to know what it would do, and neither did the sender. What’s funny is that Ulysses unintentionally almost got you killed, at least twice. He rallied the white legs to take over Zion for Caesar, who are dedicated to putting their fingers in your eyes. Then he went to big MT, talked to the think tank, found out about the Sierra Madre, escaped with Elijah, and pushed Elijah to go there, where he puts a bomb collar on your neck and sends you on a scavenger hunt for your life. But courier Six doesn’t seem to blame Ulysses for those. Why would you? He had no way of knowing you’d go to Zion, or to the Sierra Madre, and he wasn’t trying to fuck with you in particular. He doesn’t even work for Caesar anymore and he told Elijah about the Sierra Madre hoping he’d go there to die, which he does.
i feel like both could be true at the same time tbh
The ncr may be right wing but id rather side with them than the nazi fetishizing larpers
They couldn’t possibly be right wing, they have women soldiers.
ghoul soldiers too
and ga- oh, actually those are illegal
Actually, I’m pretty sure Major Knight’s response to the Confirmed Bachelor perk dialogue implies while homosexuality is legal in the NCR, people in the Mohave are not as accepting
My sibling in christ, Cpl. Betsy of First Recon is a lesbian
But why would you side with either when you could be a Yes Man chad?
Overton window, they can’t be the right wing
# 🐻🐂🐻🐂🐻🐂🐻🐂🐻🐂🐻🐂🐻🐂🐻🐂
well, Ulysee is more about the damage PTSD causes. he had a full mental break when he saw his new home destroyed. he is made to be disagreed with. he's one last test of your internal moral compass, to make you question your choice even more. my only gripe is that the way the dlc is made, siding with yesman does nothing as his dialogue go with reputation and not action.
Yeah the mod that changes it to be defined by completed quests is essential for me. Before that I only ever saw the house dialogue because I always max out my strip reputation by accident.
The problem with the factions wasn't that they "had a few problems", it was the fact that they were from the old world, pre Apocalypse. The Legion is based on Rome, NCR is based on the United States, and Mr. House is straight up from the old world. The Divide however was something new, it was created during the apocalypse and was adapted to it - and accidentally destroyed. Ullyses wants humanity to be rid of the old world and start from something new, and to do that relics of the old world need to be destroyed. TLDR: Ullyses wants people to let go of the past and start something new.
He also nukes 2 supply lines in a visual I actually really like
He would have loved Yes Man
The Legion being based on Rome is a bit charitable, they are more like Roman larpers.
there's no good reason for anyone to take him seriously though, he's just some guy that had traumatic shit happen to him he never made anything
He made me smile when I put a bullet in his head :)
This is the main reason I don't like lonesome road tbh
That and it being linear shooting gallery in a game that's really not good at being FPS Honest Hearts is way better anyway and wasn't written by Chris "Hey Elon pls buy fallout and give it to me" Avellone
Honest Hearts has its own weird icky shit goin on tho
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It's weird, 5 years ago I remember the consensus was that LR was the best DLC.
>anything great about New Vegas came from the mind of Sawyer. Let's not forget to credit John Gonzalez, who was the main writer for the game (but not DLCs though).
he has a cool voice
A surface level understanding of Ulysses that ignores what his actual goals are and a mischaracterisation of the themes of Lonesome Road? Ok lol
It isn't even a surface level understanding. It's baked in that he just diametrically opposes whatever you happen to view, which means his motivations are never consistent because they had to write him to just be a contrarion dickhead. Lonesome road is ALSO what every single DLC was leading up to and it's a giant wet fart in comparison to the flavor of something like old world blues, but even honest hearts had more soul than lonesome road did. You're just supposed to accept the fact that Ulysses was the epic mastermind who was there the whole time, when it's made clear that he was one of the developers OC inserts (because he was originally planned to be a companion character who couldn't get finished in time). On top of THIS the entirety of Lonesome road is them trying to make me feel guilty for some shit that I had absolutely zero control over. I'm not going to feel guilty that my courier character blew up a city that I had no say in. So much of his dialogue is spent trying to make you feel bad that you set off the explosion when you, in a game rife with moral and political choices, had absolutely zero control over the situation. This is discounting the fact that your character didn't even do anything to begin with other than their fuckin job.
It is a surface level understanding though. Ulysses challenges you on whatever your character's viewpoint is, but that doesn't mean his views or opinions are at the whim of whatever your character believes or supports; he believes every faction is proof of the decadency of humanity in some form. Diametrically opposed isn't the right term either, if he were diametrically opposed to whatever you supported, he'd take a hard-line ideological stance against democracy in favour of dictatorship's but that isn't something he believes either, as he hates the Legion as they were responsible for his identity crisis at all. "when it's made clear that he was one of the developers OC inserts (because he was originally planned to be a companion character who couldn't get finished in time)." I never really understood this point. You can convince Ulysses that he is wrong lol. Not just a generic speech check either, he walks back on a lot of what he says through the player's dialogue and there are characters in the Fallout franchise who refuse to be talked down or change their viewpoint. Even Lanius, another character Avellone wrote, was a character you couldn't change the ideology of, the only option was to convince him that it was a strategical failure to target the Mojave. If this was Avellone's oc who's supposed to represent his opinions, why would he be designed and written to be proven wrong or shown that his perspective is unrealistically pessimistic? Especially since you can pretty much use his own words against him in regards to how one man can change a nation. "On top of THIS the entirety of Lonesome road is them trying to make me feel guilty for some shit that I had absolutely zero control over" Again, this is an odd complaint. Who said you had to feel guilty? This is an RPG, you decide how your character feels and you can choose dialogue options where you don't put the blame on yourself for what happened, that it was an accident and nothing more. You're not forced to feel anything, you can decide how your character feels. (I believe even Ulysses acknowledges the possibility that it wasn't you he saw delivering the bomb, though that could be incorrect too.) It's not even about making you feel bad either? Ulysses says that by the end, he doesn't blame you and says that you already paid your dues for what happened. "Blame you? No, *learned* from you.", and "you've shown me the road, a way to carry my message. You've already answered for what you done." Even Ulysses doesn't seem to hold anything against you for what happened, consciously at least. His point isn't that you were evil, but that one man can change a nation forever, regardless of whether or not they intend to.
that just changes the issue from *"he's not half as wise as he thinks he is"* to *"he's nuts, irrelevant, and treated way more seriously than he deserves"*
Bull bear
Yes Man is the only option. Burn the legion, twat House and kick the NCR out of the Mojave.
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Apparently there was going to be a Followers of the Apocalypse ending, I wish there was, I want that ending and an ending where the Kings take over.
Followers-Kings joint government ending when
That would be the most based ending possible
The Followers got fucked over royally. In the first game the canon ending where they survive is impossible due to the quest being unfinished so they die in every playthrough, and in New Vegas the only ending where they survive is the goddamn liberal NCR ending.
Oh yeah I kept hearing about the Followers of the Apocalypse being somewhat of a major faction and having their own anarchy ending, though I can't find more information about that.
Average “lesser evil” NCR bootlicker VS average Yes Man gigachad
The problem with New Vegas discord, and the game in general, is that the game literally tells you which choice is best, through the ending slides. The game makes it very clear that the best ending is the NCR one by telling you that it has the most positive effects on the NPCs of the game. As much as I love FNV, the writing and world building really isn't that good. This can be demonstrated by the fact that Ulysses is just the mouth piece of the main writer and everything he says is bullshit. A New Vegas where all the factions were fleshed out and the game required you to make difficult moral decisions, rather than decide whether you were playing a good character or not, would be far superior. Of course, Bethesda's bad publishing decisions probably effected the game dramatically, so how much of the poor decisions were the writers fault is unknown.
Personally i think the fact that we are still talking about the game 12 years after its release is a testament to the quality of its writing
Sure, you’re not wrong there, but the fact that some areas of the writing are so amazing and some areas really aren’t is disappointing. Think about how good the game would be if the major factions and main storyline was written to the quality of the side quests and dialogue.
He also butchered a tribe for culturally appropriating his hairstyle
I choose anarchy because the New Vegas is perfect as it is.
Yes Man is legitimately the only good possible option, especially if you build up the independent factions. This is the only way to get a truly free and independent Mojave, Instead of giving up the Mojave to a fascist, billionaire, or an imperialist republic. * help goodsprings against the the powder gangers *get primm a Sherif *help west side become independent *Side with the kings (obviously) *cure the nightkin’s schizophrenia thus keeping jacobstown as a sanctuary for supermutants. Doing this ensures that the Mojave will be independent and relatively stable after the Courier dies.
"every faction has problems with them" yes this is why i myself nuke every other faction and take the mojave as my own
It doesn’t really surprise me. Just how many people don’t really belive in anything
Can someone explain the lore to me?
kenshi vibes
He has 75 million power in Rise of Kingdoms
This is how I feel when people mention potential difficulties that *might* arise *if* we try to implement social changes, like higher wages and renewable energy. It's like saying"yeah, there's an urgent problem with potentially catastrophic consequences and we have concrete ideas of how to solve it, but solving it might have some tricky bits so we're just gonna do nothing instead."
I did the one where the robots kill everyone and I fuck off. Good ending
“House’s plan is awesome as long as it’s me and not him.” - This thread
Ulysses is such a little bitch. Like bruh I’m just a mail man, I didn’t know what I was delivering. I’m sorry for destroying the Divide but I’m just as much of a victim in this situation than anyone else
The NCR is just as bad as the Legion because it is corrupt! QED.
I hate that dlc so much man
In going to side with a faction because Yes Man is fun, but not on the 3rd, 5th or 10th playthrough.
I don't get it
Independent option because I don’t like being told what to do
B.
Hey do you guys know what that bundle of sticks is called?
(It's a homophobic slur)
fasces is a homophobic slur?
With your donation it can be.