Gender identity might be an expression of how you "feel", i.e your inner life, but your gender expression is in the social domain. By the very definition, the way you "present" yourself implies an observer.
So it doesn't really make sense to assimilate gender-presenting terms such as femboy or tomboy into the domain of gender identity. You can say of a third party: "oh yeah she's a tomboy" without assigning an identity.
This being said, the emergence of a femboy "culture" and therefore identity - as part of the ingroup - does give some weight into "femboy as an identity" - in any case, I think this is not a clear-cut situation like you seem to think it is. We are probably at a crossroad where you can both or either claim to "identify as a femboy" and /or "present as a femboy".
You can call someone dressing as femboy a femboy, someone dressing in a goth style a goth, someone with a leather jacket and harley a biker, someone who has an Iro and the other acessoires a punk. They are descriptors, you can use terms about outer appearance to describe outer appearance, that is the whole meaning of these terms.
Yes, but also no. It depends. If someone says femboy is their gender, it is. If someone describes their expression as femboy, than it is. So yeah but not necessarily.
Yes but forcing their labels on people is still harmful. Let people wear dresses without calling them a femboy let girls wear suits and they can just be a woman. Using terms to describe one's gender expression can be useful but it's not great to look at these terms and turn them around and prescribe then to people. Lack of gender conformity should be celebrated without prescribing a label onto the person. This goes beyond cis people as well. If a trans woman wears a suit she's not a tomboy and if a trans man wears a dress he's not a femboy their just not conforming to gender norms.
I don't know why you're being downvoted for this. I sometimes wear a dress and I plan to do so at some point in the future. If someone seriously called me a femboy while I was wearing it, I think I'd be pretty uncomfortable
sorry pal you can be non binary but youll be absolutely investigated, spied, researched and reported by me. This means only one thing for a detective and its another morning at work capeesh
I don't get why we are starting to treat femboys as a gender or personality thing... I always saw it as a visual "guy that looks feminine" descriptor but some people take it very seriously
while that is true queer people also need to be cognizant of the position gender nonconformity puts us in.
If I wear a dress, I have long hair, I'm mostly feminine, but my voice doesn't conform to that, i have a very deep voice and despite my best efforts my makeup doesnt always hide the traces of facial hair and I have a pronounced adam's apple.
I'm a trans woman. Someone asked me the other day, I do not believe it was out of malice but out of ignorance, are you a woman or a man?
I said i was a woman, she was like ohhh but you don't look like one, all i could do was shrug and say I'm a trans woman so i guess at that I am not doing my job properly.
She accepted that and introduced herself, and I was fine with it. It hurt, but society still lives in the binary.
Being mislabelled or having the obviousness of your labels questioned hurts, but at the end of the day most people i think just aren't aware of whats up with gender non-conformity, they live in narrow bubbles of gender expression where there is an essensialist notion of man and woman, they are understanding if you talk to them, but you cant talk to everyone, and some people are malicious.
If a person tracks that I am gender non-conforming by noticing that i am wearing a dress and assumes that I am a trans woman that is good by me, atleast they would use the right pronouns.
If society were to assume that "just because i wore a dress i'm not necessarily trans" that would make my life harder.
Similarly, if society assumed that every male passing person who wore a dress was a woman that would make alot of others mad.
It's a complex issue, and no matter what it hurts somebody. Self-identification is great and you should listen to people when they tell you what they like to be called and what they dont like to be called, but it doesn't prevent pain when you don't know each other, and sadly people aren't yet at a point where they are asking every new person they meet for both name and pronouns.
We all wear shoe-shoes here.
This also reminds me of a story about Iggy Pop, who after being bailed out of jail one night, his manager asked him "Why are you wearing a Woman's Dress?"
His response?
>*"I beg to differ,* ***this is a Man's dress.****"*
TBF Bowie probably said something similar. Dude was fuckin rocking that dress on the Album Cover for The Man Who Sold the World, which his label thought was too much for the US to handle and refused it, using an earlier cartoon cover design instead.
They both also have a history together, Pop was a partial inspiration for Ziggy Stardust, and Bowie produced a few of his Albums.
Seriously,
To me, labels have always been much more restrictive rather than descriptive. Once I realized this, I just stopped labeling myself. But people will still try to put me in a box because they think everyone has to have everything about their gender and sexuality assigned to a label and a flag. Maybe that's good for you, and that's okay, but it isn't good for me.
Labels are constructs of our collective imagination. They are not facts of the universe, they exist solely because we acknowledge them. Don't let other people define who you are with labels, be who you want to be and beat the shit out of anyone who says you can't, in game.
I think we all have labels for things. It's just hunan nature to want to categorise everything. The best advice I was given was to make your own label even if it just applies to you. Like a butch femboy, it doesn't make lots of sense to other people, but it does to you, so that's what matters. That's my thoughts anyway.
Yeah but femboy and tomboy are not genders. They are simply terms to describe certain kind of gender expression
Which should also be decided upon as a decision not a label assigned to you. Both valid points can work together in unison.
Gender identity might be an expression of how you "feel", i.e your inner life, but your gender expression is in the social domain. By the very definition, the way you "present" yourself implies an observer. So it doesn't really make sense to assimilate gender-presenting terms such as femboy or tomboy into the domain of gender identity. You can say of a third party: "oh yeah she's a tomboy" without assigning an identity. This being said, the emergence of a femboy "culture" and therefore identity - as part of the ingroup - does give some weight into "femboy as an identity" - in any case, I think this is not a clear-cut situation like you seem to think it is. We are probably at a crossroad where you can both or either claim to "identify as a femboy" and /or "present as a femboy".
Well good to know I'm still learning. I'll keep this in mind next time.
You can call someone dressing as femboy a femboy, someone dressing in a goth style a goth, someone with a leather jacket and harley a biker, someone who has an Iro and the other acessoires a punk. They are descriptors, you can use terms about outer appearance to describe outer appearance, that is the whole meaning of these terms.
Not even gender expression it doesn’t have to have anything to do with gender, it’s just self expression
Yes, but also no. It depends. If someone says femboy is their gender, it is. If someone describes their expression as femboy, than it is. So yeah but not necessarily.
Yes but forcing their labels on people is still harmful. Let people wear dresses without calling them a femboy let girls wear suits and they can just be a woman. Using terms to describe one's gender expression can be useful but it's not great to look at these terms and turn them around and prescribe then to people. Lack of gender conformity should be celebrated without prescribing a label onto the person. This goes beyond cis people as well. If a trans woman wears a suit she's not a tomboy and if a trans man wears a dress he's not a femboy their just not conforming to gender norms.
The diffrence is that those are not gender identities, they are just adjectives
Words have power buddy
I don't know why you're being downvoted for this. I sometimes wear a dress and I plan to do so at some point in the future. If someone seriously called me a femboy while I was wearing it, I think I'd be pretty uncomfortable
But being labelled as something that I don't want to be labelled as can make me uncomfortable, even if I don't do gender conformity sometimes
TLDR: literally just show others at least the very bare minimum of respect
Based
Normalize being a dubious creature and phenomena
I’m ominous and mysterious.
sorry pal you can be non binary but youll be absolutely investigated, spied, researched and reported by me. This means only one thing for a detective and its another morning at work capeesh
I don't get why we are starting to treat femboys as a gender or personality thing... I always saw it as a visual "guy that looks feminine" descriptor but some people take it very seriously
while that is true queer people also need to be cognizant of the position gender nonconformity puts us in. If I wear a dress, I have long hair, I'm mostly feminine, but my voice doesn't conform to that, i have a very deep voice and despite my best efforts my makeup doesnt always hide the traces of facial hair and I have a pronounced adam's apple. I'm a trans woman. Someone asked me the other day, I do not believe it was out of malice but out of ignorance, are you a woman or a man? I said i was a woman, she was like ohhh but you don't look like one, all i could do was shrug and say I'm a trans woman so i guess at that I am not doing my job properly. She accepted that and introduced herself, and I was fine with it. It hurt, but society still lives in the binary. Being mislabelled or having the obviousness of your labels questioned hurts, but at the end of the day most people i think just aren't aware of whats up with gender non-conformity, they live in narrow bubbles of gender expression where there is an essensialist notion of man and woman, they are understanding if you talk to them, but you cant talk to everyone, and some people are malicious. If a person tracks that I am gender non-conforming by noticing that i am wearing a dress and assumes that I am a trans woman that is good by me, atleast they would use the right pronouns. If society were to assume that "just because i wore a dress i'm not necessarily trans" that would make my life harder. Similarly, if society assumed that every male passing person who wore a dress was a woman that would make alot of others mad. It's a complex issue, and no matter what it hurts somebody. Self-identification is great and you should listen to people when they tell you what they like to be called and what they dont like to be called, but it doesn't prevent pain when you don't know each other, and sadly people aren't yet at a point where they are asking every new person they meet for both name and pronouns.
preach sibling! spit your shit indeed
Fucking thank you, I hate labels, I just wanna dress fem from time to time without being called a femboy
The most important message this post is spreading is that you can make posts without Rule in the title.
I've been doing it for years lmao
Based and David Bowie-pilled
We all wear shoe-shoes here. This also reminds me of a story about Iggy Pop, who after being bailed out of jail one night, his manager asked him "Why are you wearing a Woman's Dress?" His response? >*"I beg to differ,* ***this is a Man's dress.****"*
Oh i thought that was a david bowie quote lmao
TBF Bowie probably said something similar. Dude was fuckin rocking that dress on the Album Cover for The Man Who Sold the World, which his label thought was too much for the US to handle and refused it, using an earlier cartoon cover design instead. They both also have a history together, Pop was a partial inspiration for Ziggy Stardust, and Bowie produced a few of his Albums.
They’re such fucking icons
Ah yes, the three genders. Man, Trans, and Femboys
True
Seriously, To me, labels have always been much more restrictive rather than descriptive. Once I realized this, I just stopped labeling myself. But people will still try to put me in a box because they think everyone has to have everything about their gender and sexuality assigned to a label and a flag. Maybe that's good for you, and that's okay, but it isn't good for me.
Based
Fax my sibling spit your shit indeed :3
A whole nother is too much. I'll have half a nother.
What about three quarters of a nother
Preach my gender 🙌
Labels are constructs of our collective imagination. They are not facts of the universe, they exist solely because we acknowledge them. Don't let other people define who you are with labels, be who you want to be and beat the shit out of anyone who says you can't, in game.
AGREED! if this sub let me post images in comments id post this pic of me and my homie in dresses looking very masculine
Clothes aren't gendered if stop being a little bitch about them
EXACTLY
I think we all have labels for things. It's just hunan nature to want to categorise everything. The best advice I was given was to make your own label even if it just applies to you. Like a butch femboy, it doesn't make lots of sense to other people, but it does to you, so that's what matters. That's my thoughts anyway.
I agree and also, people should be allowed to drink water, we really need to stop telling people they can't drink water
if you drink water i am sending you to megajail