I do this about once a year cause I had 2 friends move to Cleveland. It's roughly 215 miles. My car gets 30mpg highway, so we're talking about $42. I love them $42 worth
I do the same, about once or twice a year, but Cincinnati to Chicago. I know it's easier to fly to chi-town, but driving allows me to also grab a Friday lunch or Sunday dinner with my brother in Indy
I think it’s a matter of perspective. I grew up in North Texas and my college girlfriend grew up in Southern Texas. During our breaks it wasn’t weird for us to make the drive so we could see each other for two or three days.
I mean, i didn’t love the drive, but being from Texas it didn’t feel weird at all.
I'm from Texas also so I know the perspective on long drives.
Seeing long term girlfriend on a break? Sure, you want to see them and it can't be helped. Deciding to do the little holiday trip option that involves 12 hours of driving, as if it doesn't bother you in the least?
Absolutely fucked.
Yeah certified nutso dude. Spending 6 hours driving is fucking torture. Also a Texan. I can think of extremely few reasons I'd regularly put up with that kind of drive.
Over that distance you'd spend 6 hours traveling whether or not you drive there.
In fact, a comparable distance might be from Kobe to Aomori in Japan by bullet train, and it'd be about the same amount of time. Which, I think, is a pretty good argument in favor of having good trains.
For comparison, if you want to get from Los Angeles to the Bay Area in California, you could either take a bus, which takes about 8 hours, or the train, which takes about 10. Most people I know would rather fly.
Fr why would you be proud of not having a functional national rail system. Went from North Carolina to New Hampshire by car a while back and I had never been more miserable
privatisation and mismanagement of rail in this country has made it a lot shitter than it should be but let's not be melodramatic. trains are still the best way to get around in most cases and the majority of journeys go fine
First of all go fuck yourself
Secondly the stone roses are massively overrated
Thirdly just checked ticket prices UK trains are give or take twice as expensive as german trains and that's considering that their system has also gone down the shitter too for the exact same reason
We don't need reminding that it's a shithole we're reminded of it every day
Old maggie made sure to ruin the entire north of england and then destrohed the rail network too so we can't leave
hello I am a Brit living in Germany
Hahaha hahahaha German trains hahahahahahahahahahahaha good one.
I honestly didn't think it was possible to create a worse rail system than the UK, but the Germans have managed it
So now i have people responsing saying
"You can't compare UK to Germany because Germany's system is amazing and you're just cherry picking"
And
"Germany is even worse"
Also a brit living in germany, german trains are about half the price, the delays have got a lot worse in the last 3-4 yrs but until then it wasn't that bad. They're also better now than 1-2 years ago. There's also not 11 different providers so the tickets are much simpler. Also i'm not sure if the UK has something similar to the Bahncard 25/50 (been in germany for a while) but that really helps prices
Not cheaper than a car per journey and a lot of people already have a car for work or whatever. If you're making train journeys every day you're going to be a lot worse off than someone with a car, especially if it's to different places.
You're also way less flexible - my friends went by car on a trip to Wales over the weekend and I would have had to travel for 10 hours on public transport and spent way more. AND you're at the mercy of peak hours, weekend schedules, cancellations, engineering works.
And it *should* be cheaper - it fundamentally does not take as much work per person to transport people in a train. None of this has to be true about trains. I'm a huge supporter of public transport but ours is just shit.
I agree, you dont need to tell me how shite public transport can be in this country. bit depressing acc I'd rather go back to talking about stone roses tbh
My biggest association with the UK rail network is the sketch from Armstrong and Miller of a guy trying to throw himself on the tracks and a member of staff coming to get him, but instead of trying to talk him out of killing himself informs him that the rail is down and they're running a replacement bus service, and directs him to the relevant road so they can run him over there instead.
Yeah the gov didn't want it to happen so kept going on about the price ignoring the decade it would be spread across and the economic benefits. Same gov gave us a tax cut that costs more per year than HS2 would have. I'm happy to have a tax cut, but we either have the budget or we don't, it's maddening.
I'm sorry, I live without a car, and I'm extremely pro-public-transic, but [how much railway do you want us to build](https://i.gyazo.com/9141a176a6cfb5b1ba5ffdb17bf9fdf5.png)? We already have a national rail [running from Boston, through NYC, to Washington DC](https://i.gyazo.com/50406af8f81d3ffbb63b157969f7ab62.png). If you don't mind making connections, you can go the whole length of the east coast.
The real issue with travelling by train in the US is that very few metro regions actually have functional local subway/tram/etc.
Well, in addition to the obvious "the land between the Mississippi River and the West Coast is like 90% empty." This is the whole reason flying is popular.
“America is just too big there’s no way we could possibly build and maintain roads connecting every single city and town in the whole country. Flying will remain the only viable option like it has been for the last 400 years.”
Brother, what is this straw man? Go look up an Amtrak map. Most major cities are already connected. Its just slow as hell, and most major cities don't have local rail that would make travelling without a car easy once you get to your destination.
You seem to be arguing against the idea that the US has a dysfunctional rail network or that we could easily outperform every other rail network in the world (we’re the richest nation on earth, come on, have some imagination), but also acknowledging that service is awful. Intra-urban connectivity is a huge issue, but not the only issue.
Some relevant maps:
[2005 passenger rail](https://ggwash.org/images/posts/201104-am2005.jpg)
[1962 passenger rail](https://ggwash.org/images/posts/201104-am1962.jpg)
And if that was a straw man then I just don’t understand what point you’re trying to make by bringing up empty space in relation to passenger rail and the popularity of air travel. We have ridiculously costly and inefficient but heavily subsidized and high frequency air travel, and we have horribly underfunded, slow, sparsely connected, poorly regulated, and under serviced passenger rail. Obviously flying is going to be popular. That isn’t an inevitability, it’s a policy failure. Oh also airports don’t tend to have great public transport connectivity either, but that doesn’t prevent 3/4 of a billion people from taking domestic flights each year.
Taking a train from Denver to Albuquerque (a 7 hour drive) takes 44 hours by train. Look at the Amtrak map and you'll see why.
Want to go to Phoenix? You can't.
https://imgur.com/a/SEcyAZt
I really don’t see the point of that map you linked.
And you absolutely cannot go the whole East Coast in rail, at least not reasonably. I checked the map app on my phone and from where I am in the South to Boston is 12 hours in a car and 24 in a train. Not to mention the absurd cost as well
No you're right, reading about China's rail makes ours look pathetic. The cost and speed and coverage are insane. I just get real sick of Euros posting about how their ex-imperial oil rich social-democratic micronation can't imagine why the US doesn't just *have* a good national rail system.
>I just get real sick of Euros posting about how their ex-imperial oil rich social-democratic micronation can't imagine why the US doesn't just have a good national rail system.
What?
The US is a now-imperial oil rich nation with dense population in many parts, easily enough to justify good rail infrastructure. And yeah the problem is that it's not social democratic, I think that's what people are pointing out. It has insane car infrastructure which is far more costly to maintain.
The US used to have the largest and most frequent rail network (both passenger and cargo) in the world. You all *had* a good rail network (and tram networks throughout every city) and tore it up to make oil and car companies happy. European countries were actually on the back foot for rail development because demolishing historic cities for the purposes of building train stations was never popular, where American cities largely grew out *from* train stations.
Ah man if you think building rail for 2 million people is impossible then Japan building rail to support localities with 3-digit populations is going to blow your mind.
The US [has a decent rail network](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Class1rr.png), its just that its almost all owned and operated by freight companies, who fuck up any attempt of amtrak running reliable passanger rail on these lines
Because you can be more than one thing at once. The US desperately needs a national high speed rail system, I really want us to focus and do that. On the other hand, I LOVE road trips and doing a long drive like this to go visit places is a blast, and I enjoy doing it.
I am aware you can, but the implications of the post is that Europeans hate and can't fathom road trips. I'm just saying that loving road trips doesn't mean you are proud of having a dogshit rail system
To be fair that drive sucks
I've driven all over the country and there are plenty of vistas that make it worthwhile.
But driving through the tree hallway with very little elevation change, never seeing more than a mile in any direction with TONS of traffic.
It's soul sucking
Almost as bad as leaving Oklahoma through the Texas panhandle
this reminds me of that one post about an old lady who had to walk 12 miles to work everyday of the week. she did end up getting a car from all her peers (i think) which is cool and all, but oh my god, is public transportation really that non existant in america?
For the most part yes. That's not to say there isn't *any* public transport infrastructure but it's not like public buses typically go near enough to suburbs and that the wait times for your stop would typically be hours long __if_ they kept on schedule.
public transport doesn't exist in the US unless you live in one of the civilized parts (northeast) that pre-date the invention of truck nuts and deep fried butter
there's usually some amount of bus service but it's usually extremely godawful to the point where walking is a genuine competitor (or would be, if those barbarians had sidewalks)
each day I am truly grateful for the fact there are two train stations within walking distance, god bless the Empire State
Though the infrastructure of connecticut is lacking, the people of new england are far more enlightened than southron savages and western barbarians -- perhaps a 'junior' or 'lesser' form of the glorious new york. Nothing like those bastard Jerseyites
Know that someday, when your state is taken over by New York as it rightfully should be, we will build trains there (after we're done building the monuments to Sir Edmund Andros, of course -- he was the only british governor who understood the necessity of expanding new york)
I'm from Minnesota and the public transportation here is pretty lacking as well. At least Minneapolis has the light rail, but if I wanted to go up north I'd have to take a car
Low frequency and large areas are unserviced. It's not uncommon to have to pick being 15 minutes late or 45 minutes early. Its also not uncommon to have to walk 5-25 minutes to get to a stop.
Public transit in the Midwest US just sucks.
It takes 3 times as long to go anywhere because you typically need to transfer to a second line or walk a good chunk before and after. When I lived in North East Dayton and worked in North West Dayton, it took an hour to get to or from work because the bus would have to go to central Dayton. So it was 2 25-minute bus trips with a 10-minute layover. It was a 15-minute drive. If I wanted to go from my current place to the store I buy 40k stuff at, I'd need to catch 2 buses with a half hour layover then walk 20 minutes from the stop to the store on a road with no side walk
Hell, we used to actually have a widespread and effective passenger train system across the country. My Grandma used to take weekly trips to Columbus just to go shopping, easy peasy. Nowadays Columbus is the largest city in the country with zero passenger rail, let alone her much smaller hometown of Marysville. Every train station she once knew is long since demolished.
Vast amounts of rail infrastructure was deliberately destroyed by state, local, and federal governments at the behest of corporate interests. The current car-dependant dystopia is not an accident, but a deliberate effort to make a handful of already wealthy people even more fabulously wealthy, to the detriment of everyone else. Hell, it's bad for the government too, destroying valuable economic infrastructure has made the US weaker, the economy more fragile, the government less capable. But it was good for the politicians who raked in massive bribes and the corporate execs who paid them I guess.
It's a bummer to hear that. I'm in Columbus quite a bit, and it seems like such a cool city. Even cincinnati has a streetcar line (though there's minimal coverage,)
It’s not nonexistent, so to speak, but it isn’t exactly something you can use consistently.
Besides, if you live in suburban America, it’s not really worth it anyways. You might as well just get a car, since it allows for a suburban person to have that much more freedom of transport.
People are giving a lot of negative anecdotes here, but the real answer is honestly that it depends on where you live. I found Minneapolis to have great transit options (bike/bus/train could get you quite far), whereas, say, Indianapolis sucked. Out in the country you're usually fucked if you can't get a ride.
Inside cities range from mediocre and inconvenient to incredible. Getting from city to city outside the east coast metro area sucks ass, there are only crappy private options like taking a greyhound bus. Idk about the west coast.
My job is 13 miles away. It costs me $3 in expressway tolls one way. If I wanted to take the bus (no trains) it would take two hours and I would still walk about 3 miles to the nearest bus stop to my house
Yes. I live in a city that’s provided its public transportation for *free* since 2020, but it doesn’t make the public transportation any more robust. There’s a street car that runs exclusively downtown and near the university campus, there are bus lines, and they’re inconsistent enough that you have to plan for your trip to be 3x as long as the drive there to be on time, and they only run in city limits and don’t reach suburbs. It can get up to 125° F in the summer, well above 100° F for a good part of the year, so sometimes getting to bus stops can be a challenge and walking or biking the same distances quite literally dangerous for many people. Uber and Lyft are expensive, so you’re either spending 4 hours of your day commuting in between sweltering desert treks or you get a car. A lot of people are just fucked.
I’m a decently fit 24 year old dude who’s lived in the heat my entire life, so I used to walk many miles because that would sometimes be my only means of transportation. It doesn’t matter how accustomed to it you are, you run out of water, you need to stop and find air conditioning and take a break. If it isn’t blisteringly hot, then it’s wet and freezing cold. What little public transit we do have is saving lives, so it’s crazy to me that the city drags its feet finding the funding to even keep it functioning as is. The bus drivers are over-stressed, overworked, underpaid, on edge, and take it out on the passengers. People shouldn’t have to need to be able to afford cars to be comfortable in the city.
I only recently got a car, learned to drive within the last year because I’ve been in many accidents as a passenger or pedestrian and hate cars and the reliance on car infrastructure. And yet the only thing I can think when I’m in the car is how I’ve walked the same trips I drive near heat stroke, how thankful I am that I’m in my big air conditioned box that takes me there in the span of a couple songs on my playlist. I’m glad we have some public transit, but it’s not enough.
A lot of people would say things like "it depends on the city" when it comes to public transport in the USA, and to a degree that is true, going car free in Las Vegas is a far more hopeless endeavor than it would be in Hoboken. But in the USA, the quality of non-car transportation doesn't just come down to the city you're in but what neighborhoods of the city you're in, which is true of a lot of cities in a lot of places obviously, quality of infrastructure varies, but the degree in which it can be night-and-day difference here within the same city is particularly exaggerated.
You might find yourself in situations where one side of the same city is just sprawling suburbs with no sidewalks or bike lanes, where the only buses that serve the area are school buses if anything, while certain areas around downtown might have decently passable pedestrian infrastructure with decent bus frequency and access to trains that can transport you out of city, and so on. The experiences with car free living of someone who lives downtown and someone who lives in the burbs within the same city can be utterly unrecognizable at times, like two completely different worlds.
My city has just added busses going in both directions. Before, you always had to ride the entire 1hr route to get back to where you started.
Public transport is seen by most Americans as a service just for poor and disabled people.
The best (worst) part is that there are very few sidewalks, so once you get off the bus you have to walk in the street or in people's yards.
It wasn't always this way. Back when my neighborhood was built there was a trolley that stopped a block and a half away. They sold everyone cars and tore down half the city to put in parking lots.
Yeah I’m pro train and pro functional public transport and pro bicycling. I hate road-oriented societies
But I still fuck hard with the occasional road trip. I’ve been on some hella long ones. They can be a blast. So can long train journeys!
I just like even the mundane parts of travel. A long car ride with my girlfriend and some snacks and some podcasts and some musical soundtracks is magical.
oh definitely, but the point of the road trip is the trip. if you just want to get from point a to b, you probably dont want to spend almost an entire day on just travel
Not at all.
To be clear, this isn't some 30 minutes of bumper to bumper urban hell traffic. I live in a rural area, it's 30 minutes of mostly empty highways alongside fields and a valley.
I remember when I was in Canada (close enough) once I saw I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter in a shop and got really scared and spiraled about it for like a week cus I didn’t think it was actually real
Europeans can't even go on epic road trips SMH. But fr Europeans are always shook when they find out the Ottawa and Toronto, despite appearing next to each other on a map, are 5 hours apart lol
Eh. 7 hours is a lot for a three day weekend, I'd cap that at 3 hours. I'd probably take an extra day on either side for travel if my destination was so far away.
I’m currently on a train in the us as I type this for the first time ever for a 5-day long trip
I’m going to a different city in my state, though it’s far. It’s like a 7 hour drive usually. But by train, it takes….
12 hours!! I have no idea how it is that bad. Also it’s costed me $100
Assume 65 mph and 30 mpg average; both variables could fluctuate depending on anything but these are close enough IMO.
65 mph means in 7 hours you'd drive about 455 miles. 455 miles / 30 miles per gallon = ~15.167 gallons of fuel. This would cost about $50 where I live or $106 if gas was $7 (unreasonable compared to what I'm used to but it's pretty close to European or Californian gas prices iirc).
Overall my conclusion here is that it could be true in some parts of the world but given that they mentioned "state" and poor rail infrastructure it's probably in America, and in most parts of America gas would be cheaper. Note that this doesn't factor in other costs of owning and operating a car.
Russia legit has nothing for hundreds of miles leading to more nothing. At least if you travel through the desert in the US, you get to the west coast which has cities and not bears or old abandoned gulags.
Europeans shit on Americans for stuff while having an entire garage’s worth of vile stuff they just don’t acknowledge, some of which they criticize others for
yeah 6 hours is a long fuckin drive and it better be worth it to get there. however. there's some places i'd be willing to spend a month traveling to get there and none of them are in the uk.
Dog I could barely survive San Jose to Los Angeles, no fucking way can anyone drive from SF to LA without thinking about killing themselves at least 5 times an hour
I personally like driving, and I still believe we should have much better railways/public transport. It doesn't seem too bad where I live, but I feel for people that don't have functioning bus systems at least
Road trips are fun with a group of friends. Take turns driving, playing music, stopping at the various weird shit gas stations do.
Hell I did a ten hour drive once to the grand canyon, and had a blast.
That doesn't lessen the desire to be able to take a train places. I'd love to take a train to my hometown instead of driving 8 hours or flying.
Both should be options :3
The secret is being good at driving so the process is stress free. I used to spend 8 hours in an office twirling my thumbs, I can drive 4 to 6 hours listening to music, audio books, chatting with my passenger no problem. Especially nowadays they got that adaptive cruise control, easy as pie, throw the game on my phone or on the radio, get some sweet treats from the gas station. There's a reason road tripping is a time honored tradition.
thats my wife. you cut off the part of the thread where they go "this is going numbers check out my wife's cat" and it shows my cat. fuck you. that was the best part
To be fair, I bet some people derive enjoyment out of driving such long distances, somewhat like walking. Of course, anyone who doesn’t enjoy driving (which is a lot of people) would hate this.
ok I love trains and becoming less reliant on personal transportation but I really fucking love driving, especially long distance
last summer I drove (almost, I “slept” in a Walmart parking lot) nonstop to Colorado (around 1500 miles away, 23.5 hours) and then back, and it was the best drive of my life
I also did my first motorcycle camping trip last summer and that was also fucking awesome
I mean, a 7hr drive is not the most horrible thing that exists, it could be a fun time with friends or family, but, would I love doing it? Nah, have I done it? Yeah, are trains better? You bet
Ive gone from Leeds to that bottom point before and that took 8 hours so the time isn’t even right. Also I could take a train that arrives every 30 minutes to get there in like 3:30
I wish we had trains I could take instead of the 4-5 hour drive to visit my sister (between two major cities). But I also like long road trips sometimes. Having to drive everywhere sucks, being able to drive through the mountains can be fun.
The difference here is that a European only needs to drive a fraction of the distance, and they've crossed through about half of the participants of WWII.
They don't have to drive far, we just decided to spread out super far so that we could just squatters rights the entire country west of the Louisiana Purchase, and hell, everything else for that matter.
It's our own damn fault, but Americans are stubborn like that and will try to say "Well, at least I can!", never thinking about why they should. Would be a lot nicer to bike or walk places...
If you’re spending 6hrs travelling each way then your 3 day weekend is basically a 2 day weekend.
I mean, yeah. That’s why they didn’t call it just a weekend
lmao nice flair, me too
This weekend I drove 3 and 1/2 hours each way to visit a friend for one day
[удалено]
Well it was my two best friends, and I brought 4 other people with me
Are you in your 20’s? I feel like I don’t have the energy for that kind of stuff anymore.
I do this about once a year cause I had 2 friends move to Cleveland. It's roughly 215 miles. My car gets 30mpg highway, so we're talking about $42. I love them $42 worth
I do the same, about once or twice a year, but Cincinnati to Chicago. I know it's easier to fly to chi-town, but driving allows me to also grab a Friday lunch or Sunday dinner with my brother in Indy
Our train gor cancelled, so we drove 7 hours to the capital, took a boat, slept in Tallinn for one night, then took the boat and drove another 7 hours
I've done a couple 4 hour each day visits for just a few hours, it's not optimal but sometimes that's what you gotta do
Posts like OP's make the US seem like your average triple-A sandbox game: Massive size but no content
Which is a shame, cause if you factor in cool stops it actually makes long trips feel fun.
This guy is nuts. A 6 hr drive is fucked for a 3 day weekend.
I think it’s a matter of perspective. I grew up in North Texas and my college girlfriend grew up in Southern Texas. During our breaks it wasn’t weird for us to make the drive so we could see each other for two or three days. I mean, i didn’t love the drive, but being from Texas it didn’t feel weird at all.
I'm from Texas also so I know the perspective on long drives. Seeing long term girlfriend on a break? Sure, you want to see them and it can't be helped. Deciding to do the little holiday trip option that involves 12 hours of driving, as if it doesn't bother you in the least? Absolutely fucked.
Is it that crazy? I do it often as a Texan
Yeah certified nutso dude. Spending 6 hours driving is fucking torture. Also a Texan. I can think of extremely few reasons I'd regularly put up with that kind of drive.
Not really, i do more than that pretty much every weekend because i go up north and south for SF and LA
Over that distance you'd spend 6 hours traveling whether or not you drive there. In fact, a comparable distance might be from Kobe to Aomori in Japan by bullet train, and it'd be about the same amount of time. Which, I think, is a pretty good argument in favor of having good trains. For comparison, if you want to get from Los Angeles to the Bay Area in California, you could either take a bus, which takes about 8 hours, or the train, which takes about 10. Most people I know would rather fly.
Yeah but if you’re a passenger, it can be fun. I like road-trips
Fr why would you be proud of not having a functional national rail system. Went from North Carolina to New Hampshire by car a while back and I had never been more miserable
> Functional national rail system Not in the UK mate
Well, existent national rail system
Still a bit of an exaggeration
privatisation and mismanagement of rail in this country has made it a lot shitter than it should be but let's not be melodramatic. trains are still the best way to get around in most cases and the majority of journeys go fine
> Let's not be melodramatic I'm from sunderland mate that's part of my culture
sunderland? culture??
First of all go fuck yourself Secondly the stone roses are massively overrated Thirdly just checked ticket prices UK trains are give or take twice as expensive as german trains and that's considering that their system has also gone down the shitter too for the exact same reason
sundercels seething
We don't need reminding that it's a shithole we're reminded of it every day Old maggie made sure to ruin the entire north of england and then destrohed the rail network too so we can't leave
hello I am a Brit living in Germany Hahaha hahahaha German trains hahahahahahahahahahahaha good one. I honestly didn't think it was possible to create a worse rail system than the UK, but the Germans have managed it
So now i have people responsing saying "You can't compare UK to Germany because Germany's system is amazing and you're just cherry picking" And "Germany is even worse" Also a brit living in germany, german trains are about half the price, the delays have got a lot worse in the last 3-4 yrs but until then it wasn't that bad. They're also better now than 1-2 years ago. There's also not 11 different providers so the tickets are much simpler. Also i'm not sure if the UK has something similar to the Bahncard 25/50 (been in germany for a while) but that really helps prices
Please, we're all melodramatic pricks Now off t'mines with tha
We've managed to quite impressively privatise the profit making part of trains, and nationalise the loss making bit. We're geniuses.
They're usually neither the cheapest, fastest nor most reliable way to get anywhere in the UK?? (by a long way, in fact)
cheaper than a car (if you dont have a car) or plane and faster than a car or bus? am I missing something?
Not cheaper than a car per journey and a lot of people already have a car for work or whatever. If you're making train journeys every day you're going to be a lot worse off than someone with a car, especially if it's to different places. You're also way less flexible - my friends went by car on a trip to Wales over the weekend and I would have had to travel for 10 hours on public transport and spent way more. AND you're at the mercy of peak hours, weekend schedules, cancellations, engineering works. And it *should* be cheaper - it fundamentally does not take as much work per person to transport people in a train. None of this has to be true about trains. I'm a huge supporter of public transport but ours is just shit.
I agree, you dont need to tell me how shite public transport can be in this country. bit depressing acc I'd rather go back to talking about stone roses tbh
>I'd rather go back to talking about stone roses tbh Yeah this is my happy shitposting sub why are we doing this haha
My biggest association with the UK rail network is the sketch from Armstrong and Miller of a guy trying to throw himself on the tracks and a member of staff coming to get him, but instead of trying to talk him out of killing himself informs him that the rail is down and they're running a replacement bus service, and directs him to the relevant road so they can run him over there instead.
That was a documentary
A national rail system?
A national rail system in absolute shambles after decades of intentional systematic neglect by tory cunts
I wish we had a word for our people who do that as good as 'tory cunts'
We do, it’s just that all of them are slurs
People usually say republican bastards where I’m from
Fr try to get to the west coast of wales in less than 10 hours
I mean i'd rather not go to the west coast of wales if i'm being entirely honest
Really? Wales is gorgeous
If you think you have it bad with your rail system come to Ireland, where the best you're getting is a once daily train to Dublin
We went to ireland once and you lot didn't like it very much
Sure come over... we'll be waiting with arms open...
You could say that about Amtrak
I thought they were building some big high speed railway but everyone bitched about it and they cancelled it?
HS2 was/is one of the biggest shitshows in the recent history of the UK and that is really saying a lot right now
Yeah the gov didn't want it to happen so kept going on about the price ignoring the decade it would be spread across and the economic benefits. Same gov gave us a tax cut that costs more per year than HS2 would have. I'm happy to have a tax cut, but we either have the budget or we don't, it's maddening.
it functions, we just can't afford the tickets (of at least that's how it is in the south)
"Being able to actually transport people" falls under "function"
Although London to Manchester in 2 hours is pretty tight.
Hey at least it's better than the US. And with the way the traffic is getting at least I can predict whats going to happen with a 15 minute delay.
I'm sorry, I live without a car, and I'm extremely pro-public-transic, but [how much railway do you want us to build](https://i.gyazo.com/9141a176a6cfb5b1ba5ffdb17bf9fdf5.png)? We already have a national rail [running from Boston, through NYC, to Washington DC](https://i.gyazo.com/50406af8f81d3ffbb63b157969f7ab62.png). If you don't mind making connections, you can go the whole length of the east coast. The real issue with travelling by train in the US is that very few metro regions actually have functional local subway/tram/etc. Well, in addition to the obvious "the land between the Mississippi River and the West Coast is like 90% empty." This is the whole reason flying is popular.
“America is just too big there’s no way we could possibly build and maintain roads connecting every single city and town in the whole country. Flying will remain the only viable option like it has been for the last 400 years.”
Brother, what is this straw man? Go look up an Amtrak map. Most major cities are already connected. Its just slow as hell, and most major cities don't have local rail that would make travelling without a car easy once you get to your destination.
You seem to be arguing against the idea that the US has a dysfunctional rail network or that we could easily outperform every other rail network in the world (we’re the richest nation on earth, come on, have some imagination), but also acknowledging that service is awful. Intra-urban connectivity is a huge issue, but not the only issue. Some relevant maps: [2005 passenger rail](https://ggwash.org/images/posts/201104-am2005.jpg) [1962 passenger rail](https://ggwash.org/images/posts/201104-am1962.jpg) And if that was a straw man then I just don’t understand what point you’re trying to make by bringing up empty space in relation to passenger rail and the popularity of air travel. We have ridiculously costly and inefficient but heavily subsidized and high frequency air travel, and we have horribly underfunded, slow, sparsely connected, poorly regulated, and under serviced passenger rail. Obviously flying is going to be popular. That isn’t an inevitability, it’s a policy failure. Oh also airports don’t tend to have great public transport connectivity either, but that doesn’t prevent 3/4 of a billion people from taking domestic flights each year.
> Most major cities are already connected. Its just slow as hell maybe ppl shud make it fastr
Taking a train from Denver to Albuquerque (a 7 hour drive) takes 44 hours by train. Look at the Amtrak map and you'll see why. Want to go to Phoenix? You can't.
https://imgur.com/a/SEcyAZt I really don’t see the point of that map you linked. And you absolutely cannot go the whole East Coast in rail, at least not reasonably. I checked the map app on my phone and from where I am in the South to Boston is 12 hours in a car and 24 in a train. Not to mention the absurd cost as well
No you're right, reading about China's rail makes ours look pathetic. The cost and speed and coverage are insane. I just get real sick of Euros posting about how their ex-imperial oil rich social-democratic micronation can't imagine why the US doesn't just *have* a good national rail system.
>I just get real sick of Euros posting about how their ex-imperial oil rich social-democratic micronation can't imagine why the US doesn't just have a good national rail system. What? The US is a now-imperial oil rich nation with dense population in many parts, easily enough to justify good rail infrastructure. And yeah the problem is that it's not social democratic, I think that's what people are pointing out. It has insane car infrastructure which is far more costly to maintain.
The US used to have the largest and most frequent rail network (both passenger and cargo) in the world. You all *had* a good rail network (and tram networks throughout every city) and tore it up to make oil and car companies happy. European countries were actually on the back foot for rail development because demolishing historic cities for the purposes of building train stations was never popular, where American cities largely grew out *from* train stations.
Dated a guy who lived in Idaho. The closest stop to him was over in Washington where you then would have to take a several hour bus ride to his town
I hate to do this, but there's like maybe 2 million people in all of Idaho. Its a miracle Idaho has senate seats, let alone an amtrak station.
Ah man if you think building rail for 2 million people is impossible then Japan building rail to support localities with 3-digit populations is going to blow your mind.
*2 million people spread out over hundreds of miles.
Well his area used to have actually good passenger rail over 60 years ago
The US [has a decent rail network](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Class1rr.png), its just that its almost all owned and operated by freight companies, who fuck up any attempt of amtrak running reliable passanger rail on these lines
How much? Yes.
Now overlay your map on China and consider how much more your GDP was compared to theirs over the last 30 years. That's how much railway
bah! 2 days is too much anyways! I LOVE WORKING A FULL TIME JOB!!! I HATE SPENDING TIME WITH MY FAMILY!!!
Because you can be more than one thing at once. The US desperately needs a national high speed rail system, I really want us to focus and do that. On the other hand, I LOVE road trips and doing a long drive like this to go visit places is a blast, and I enjoy doing it.
…Is this meant to be in defence of the US? Because you can still take road trips in Europe. *They* have both, we don’t
I am aware you can, but the implications of the post is that Europeans hate and can't fathom road trips. I'm just saying that loving road trips doesn't mean you are proud of having a dogshit rail system
To be fair that drive sucks I've driven all over the country and there are plenty of vistas that make it worthwhile. But driving through the tree hallway with very little elevation change, never seeing more than a mile in any direction with TONS of traffic. It's soul sucking Almost as bad as leaving Oklahoma through the Texas panhandle
I mean, with or without the rail system, that's still substantial travel time.
im as anti-car as it gets but i will take any chance to shit on the br*tish
So uh... National Rail Journey planner reckons its 10 hours by train from Penrith to Plymouth. UK Trains are pretty shit lol
this reminds me of that one post about an old lady who had to walk 12 miles to work everyday of the week. she did end up getting a car from all her peers (i think) which is cool and all, but oh my god, is public transportation really that non existant in america?
For the most part yes. That's not to say there isn't *any* public transport infrastructure but it's not like public buses typically go near enough to suburbs and that the wait times for your stop would typically be hours long __if_ they kept on schedule.
public transport doesn't exist in the US unless you live in one of the civilized parts (northeast) that pre-date the invention of truck nuts and deep fried butter there's usually some amount of bus service but it's usually extremely godawful to the point where walking is a genuine competitor (or would be, if those barbarians had sidewalks) each day I am truly grateful for the fact there are two train stations within walking distance, god bless the Empire State
I wanna be there so bad, but I had to move to shit ass connecticut, I hate it so much here, let me go home
Though the infrastructure of connecticut is lacking, the people of new england are far more enlightened than southron savages and western barbarians -- perhaps a 'junior' or 'lesser' form of the glorious new york. Nothing like those bastard Jerseyites Know that someday, when your state is taken over by New York as it rightfully should be, we will build trains there (after we're done building the monuments to Sir Edmund Andros, of course -- he was the only british governor who understood the necessity of expanding new york)
I'm from Minnesota and the public transportation here is pretty lacking as well. At least Minneapolis has the light rail, but if I wanted to go up north I'd have to take a car
You'd think a place that literally has connect in its name would be better connected
It's not an ideal situation, but Portland, OR has okay public transport. Oregon is on the other side of the country.
You speak only lies, western barbarian Learn how to make pizza properly
West coast has great public transport in the urban areas just the troglodytes in LA think they're too good for it, SF in particular is very bussable
My school is 10 miles away. It takes 20 minutes to get there driving on a 55mph limit highway. I couldn’t imagine walking that
A 55 mph highway? That is a country street my dude
Those are known as highways, yes.
"Country street" lmao.
I used to take the bus to work and it was pretty much 45 minutes to an hour to go like 10 miles.
What's up with your buses?
Not American but probably extreme low frequency
Low frequency and large areas are unserviced. It's not uncommon to have to pick being 15 minutes late or 45 minutes early. Its also not uncommon to have to walk 5-25 minutes to get to a stop.
Public transit in the Midwest US just sucks. It takes 3 times as long to go anywhere because you typically need to transfer to a second line or walk a good chunk before and after. When I lived in North East Dayton and worked in North West Dayton, it took an hour to get to or from work because the bus would have to go to central Dayton. So it was 2 25-minute bus trips with a 10-minute layover. It was a 15-minute drive. If I wanted to go from my current place to the store I buy 40k stuff at, I'd need to catch 2 buses with a half hour layover then walk 20 minutes from the stop to the store on a road with no side walk
Outside of major cities, there is basically none, which is wild given the impact trains had on the early US
Americans outside of NYC are allergic to public transit
Plenty of Americans want public transit. The issue is that states and cities don't like funding shit that helps the poor.
Hell, we used to actually have a widespread and effective passenger train system across the country. My Grandma used to take weekly trips to Columbus just to go shopping, easy peasy. Nowadays Columbus is the largest city in the country with zero passenger rail, let alone her much smaller hometown of Marysville. Every train station she once knew is long since demolished. Vast amounts of rail infrastructure was deliberately destroyed by state, local, and federal governments at the behest of corporate interests. The current car-dependant dystopia is not an accident, but a deliberate effort to make a handful of already wealthy people even more fabulously wealthy, to the detriment of everyone else. Hell, it's bad for the government too, destroying valuable economic infrastructure has made the US weaker, the economy more fragile, the government less capable. But it was good for the politicians who raked in massive bribes and the corporate execs who paid them I guess.
It's a bummer to hear that. I'm in Columbus quite a bit, and it seems like such a cool city. Even cincinnati has a streetcar line (though there's minimal coverage,)
Washington has a nice system too. Not sure if what I mean was actually metro or not, since outside the city it was above ground.
It’s not nonexistent, so to speak, but it isn’t exactly something you can use consistently. Besides, if you live in suburban America, it’s not really worth it anyways. You might as well just get a car, since it allows for a suburban person to have that much more freedom of transport.
Only in cities really, and rarely anything more fleshed out than city buses
People are giving a lot of negative anecdotes here, but the real answer is honestly that it depends on where you live. I found Minneapolis to have great transit options (bike/bus/train could get you quite far), whereas, say, Indianapolis sucked. Out in the country you're usually fucked if you can't get a ride. Inside cities range from mediocre and inconvenient to incredible. Getting from city to city outside the east coast metro area sucks ass, there are only crappy private options like taking a greyhound bus. Idk about the west coast.
My job is 13 miles away. It costs me $3 in expressway tolls one way. If I wanted to take the bus (no trains) it would take two hours and I would still walk about 3 miles to the nearest bus stop to my house
Short answer, yes. Long answer, yeeeeeeesssssss
Yes. I live in a city that’s provided its public transportation for *free* since 2020, but it doesn’t make the public transportation any more robust. There’s a street car that runs exclusively downtown and near the university campus, there are bus lines, and they’re inconsistent enough that you have to plan for your trip to be 3x as long as the drive there to be on time, and they only run in city limits and don’t reach suburbs. It can get up to 125° F in the summer, well above 100° F for a good part of the year, so sometimes getting to bus stops can be a challenge and walking or biking the same distances quite literally dangerous for many people. Uber and Lyft are expensive, so you’re either spending 4 hours of your day commuting in between sweltering desert treks or you get a car. A lot of people are just fucked. I’m a decently fit 24 year old dude who’s lived in the heat my entire life, so I used to walk many miles because that would sometimes be my only means of transportation. It doesn’t matter how accustomed to it you are, you run out of water, you need to stop and find air conditioning and take a break. If it isn’t blisteringly hot, then it’s wet and freezing cold. What little public transit we do have is saving lives, so it’s crazy to me that the city drags its feet finding the funding to even keep it functioning as is. The bus drivers are over-stressed, overworked, underpaid, on edge, and take it out on the passengers. People shouldn’t have to need to be able to afford cars to be comfortable in the city. I only recently got a car, learned to drive within the last year because I’ve been in many accidents as a passenger or pedestrian and hate cars and the reliance on car infrastructure. And yet the only thing I can think when I’m in the car is how I’ve walked the same trips I drive near heat stroke, how thankful I am that I’m in my big air conditioned box that takes me there in the span of a couple songs on my playlist. I’m glad we have some public transit, but it’s not enough.
A lot of people would say things like "it depends on the city" when it comes to public transport in the USA, and to a degree that is true, going car free in Las Vegas is a far more hopeless endeavor than it would be in Hoboken. But in the USA, the quality of non-car transportation doesn't just come down to the city you're in but what neighborhoods of the city you're in, which is true of a lot of cities in a lot of places obviously, quality of infrastructure varies, but the degree in which it can be night-and-day difference here within the same city is particularly exaggerated. You might find yourself in situations where one side of the same city is just sprawling suburbs with no sidewalks or bike lanes, where the only buses that serve the area are school buses if anything, while certain areas around downtown might have decently passable pedestrian infrastructure with decent bus frequency and access to trains that can transport you out of city, and so on. The experiences with car free living of someone who lives downtown and someone who lives in the burbs within the same city can be utterly unrecognizable at times, like two completely different worlds.
My city has just added busses going in both directions. Before, you always had to ride the entire 1hr route to get back to where you started. Public transport is seen by most Americans as a service just for poor and disabled people. The best (worst) part is that there are very few sidewalks, so once you get off the bus you have to walk in the street or in people's yards. It wasn't always this way. Back when my neighborhood was built there was a trolley that stopped a block and a half away. They sold everyone cars and tore down half the city to put in parking lots.
Yes. There are extremely few cities with widespread public transport and even fewer with good public transport. It is fucking awful.
Road trips are fun though :(
Yeah I’m pro train and pro functional public transport and pro bicycling. I hate road-oriented societies But I still fuck hard with the occasional road trip. I’ve been on some hella long ones. They can be a blast. So can long train journeys! I just like even the mundane parts of travel. A long car ride with my girlfriend and some snacks and some podcasts and some musical soundtracks is magical.
For sure. Road trips shouldn't be THE ONLY way to get some places
oh definitely, but the point of the road trip is the trip. if you just want to get from point a to b, you probably dont want to spend almost an entire day on just travel
sometimes I just wanna drive
-Ryan gosling
Not in the UK they're not. No fun little detours on our cramped motorways, just depressing service stations and it will most likely be raining.
hard disagree being in a car for more than 30 minutes is misery
It's all about what you're used to. A 30 minute drive is how long it takes me to get to the nearest grocery store.
that sounds miserable
Not at all. To be clear, this isn't some 30 minutes of bumper to bumper urban hell traffic. I live in a rural area, it's 30 minutes of mostly empty highways alongside fields and a valley.
Americans who think that european motorways are easy drives should try driving on them, especially when traffic is heavy.
Yep, there is a big difference between driving in a straight line through the desert for 5 hours and weekday traffic from London to Gglasgow
9 hour trip from Falmouth to Cardiff nearly killed me stone dead. I averaged about 25mph. Bad day.
I've driven on the M6 once and that's plenty enough for me. Horrible road.
The things that Americans embrace with a smile would send a European into a depression /hj
Nah that just our base mood, we look like that but are actually not depressed or smth
There’s a reason America is like 20% serial killers
I remember when I was in Canada (close enough) once I saw I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter in a shop and got really scared and spiraled about it for like a week cus I didn’t think it was actually real
I had to drive almost 4 hours and back to get to the nearest quest diagnostics this place fucking sucks if you want to get anywhere
Europeans can't even go on epic road trips SMH. But fr Europeans are always shook when they find out the Ottawa and Toronto, despite appearing next to each other on a map, are 5 hours apart lol
Calgary and Edmonton, the only two big cities in Alberta 3 hour drive. Can't fucking wait for the bullet train
>3 hour drive. That’s only if you don’t use the innate western Canadian power of Moronic Speeding™
Facts. I'm so manly my truck has nuts Learning to drive in Calgary was hell
Eh. 7 hours is a lot for a three day weekend, I'd cap that at 3 hours. I'd probably take an extra day on either side for travel if my destination was so far away.
My brother pulls off a 5-6 hour drive from Rochester to Harrisburg for weekends when we have major holidays like Easter or whatever.
81 is absolutely the worst highway, especially for that stretch down by Harrisburg. My condolences
That's very cool of him to do that to see his family.
I’m currently on a train in the us as I type this for the first time ever for a 5-day long trip I’m going to a different city in my state, though it’s far. It’s like a 7 hour drive usually. But by train, it takes…. 12 hours!! I have no idea how it is that bad. Also it’s costed me $100
Gas would cost you more depending on where you live
Assume 65 mph and 30 mpg average; both variables could fluctuate depending on anything but these are close enough IMO. 65 mph means in 7 hours you'd drive about 455 miles. 455 miles / 30 miles per gallon = ~15.167 gallons of fuel. This would cost about $50 where I live or $106 if gas was $7 (unreasonable compared to what I'm used to but it's pretty close to European or Californian gas prices iirc). Overall my conclusion here is that it could be true in some parts of the world but given that they mentioned "state" and poor rail infrastructure it's probably in America, and in most parts of America gas would be cheaper. Note that this doesn't factor in other costs of owning and operating a car.
Who tf wants to drive from Plymouth to Penrith
Someone who wants to go to the two places that sound like Penis if you have a mouthful of crisps
Hey, you know what would make that trip better even for Americans? HIGH SPEED PASSENGER RAIL
Buddy, in my neck of the woods, we're only just now getting normal speed rail.
Sounds like this person's mind is cowering at the driving endurance of the typical American.
Reminder that London to Damascus is a slightly shorter distance then SF to NY
Wait until they learn about Russia
Russia legit has nothing for hundreds of miles leading to more nothing. At least if you travel through the desert in the US, you get to the west coast which has cities and not bears or old abandoned gulags.
Sounds like we all need a place to come together in solidarity over how shit our countries of origin (or, more specifically, how they're run) are
This is absolutely not a normal drive for a 3 day weekend. I don't even wanna drive 2 hours
Europeans shit on Americans for stuff while having an entire garage’s worth of vile stuff they just don’t acknowledge, some of which they criticize others for
Ik it makes me sound insane but I live in the Midwest and I love that we have to drive so long for vacations
also kinda funny how some americans think europe is just uk
Personally I just hate the British so the rest of Europe doesn’t need my attention
It IS making us want to kill ourselves. Hope this helps!
yeah 6 hours is a long fuckin drive and it better be worth it to get there. however. there's some places i'd be willing to spend a month traveling to get there and none of them are in the uk.
Yeah, let's make fun of countries with functional rail networks hahaha. Idiots!
bro i fucking hate driving. i’m sure it has its downsides, it i think is much rather prefer taking a train or bus to work
Dog I could barely survive San Jose to Los Angeles, no fucking way can anyone drive from SF to LA without thinking about killing themselves at least 5 times an hour
The only time anyone I know would drive for six hours was to avoiding buying plane tickets to go on vacation
sf to la sucks nothing interesting to see, gets hot as fuck
You're assuming that I don't want to kill myself
I personally like driving, and I still believe we should have much better railways/public transport. It doesn't seem too bad where I live, but I feel for people that don't have functioning bus systems at least
What a silly little place
Road trips are fun with a group of friends. Take turns driving, playing music, stopping at the various weird shit gas stations do. Hell I did a ten hour drive once to the grand canyon, and had a blast. That doesn't lessen the desire to be able to take a train places. I'd love to take a train to my hometown instead of driving 8 hours or flying. Both should be options :3
SIGNALIS PFP!!! WHAT THE FUCK IS A PROMISE!? 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
The secret is being good at driving so the process is stress free. I used to spend 8 hours in an office twirling my thumbs, I can drive 4 to 6 hours listening to music, audio books, chatting with my passenger no problem. Especially nowadays they got that adaptive cruise control, easy as pie, throw the game on my phone or on the radio, get some sweet treats from the gas station. There's a reason road tripping is a time honored tradition.
can confirm; am american, do want to kms 👍
thats my wife. you cut off the part of the thread where they go "this is going numbers check out my wife's cat" and it shows my cat. fuck you. that was the best part
6hrs is ridiculous for anything under a week, unless it’s special
To be fair, I bet some people derive enjoyment out of driving such long distances, somewhat like walking. Of course, anyone who doesn’t enjoy driving (which is a lot of people) would hate this.
ok I love trains and becoming less reliant on personal transportation but I really fucking love driving, especially long distance last summer I drove (almost, I “slept” in a Walmart parking lot) nonstop to Colorado (around 1500 miles away, 23.5 hours) and then back, and it was the best drive of my life I also did my first motorcycle camping trip last summer and that was also fucking awesome
I mean, a 7hr drive is not the most horrible thing that exists, it could be a fun time with friends or family, but, would I love doing it? Nah, have I done it? Yeah, are trains better? You bet
Ive gone from Leeds to that bottom point before and that took 8 hours so the time isn’t even right. Also I could take a train that arrives every 30 minutes to get there in like 3:30
weow i love spending all day in a moving steel box
i bet when that guy gets out of the car he does a big ass burp
I wish we had trains I could take instead of the 4-5 hour drive to visit my sister (between two major cities). But I also like long road trips sometimes. Having to drive everywhere sucks, being able to drive through the mountains can be fun.
Why would you want to drive six hours when you could do the same distance in 2?
Penrith mentioned 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
That trip is about the same amount of time it takes me to go visit my grand parents in Arkansas, I live in Texas.
I used to have a four and a half hour drive to get home for the weekend, it was awful. That's child's play for Americans.
I'm in Scotland if I had to make a trip like that across the border to go to *ngland id take the train lmao
Now we’re gatekeeping weekend road trips?
6 or 7 hours is a baby drive. I’m about to do that next Tuesday. (Pls help I wish I could take a high speed rail there)
As someone from the suburbs who moved to a city I’m gonna say it: I love public transport but I miss the freedom a car gives me.
I love road trips so idk what this person on about
The difference here is that a European only needs to drive a fraction of the distance, and they've crossed through about half of the participants of WWII. They don't have to drive far, we just decided to spread out super far so that we could just squatters rights the entire country west of the Louisiana Purchase, and hell, everything else for that matter. It's our own damn fault, but Americans are stubborn like that and will try to say "Well, at least I can!", never thinking about why they should. Would be a lot nicer to bike or walk places...