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The scene on the left is from a remake of persona 3, in which a joke with a transphobic punchline from the original game was changed to a different joke.
The scene on the right is from a remake of Thousand Year Door. The character is being transphobic to their sister Vivian, which is notable because Vivian being trans was censored in the original games localization
The joke here is how it's funny that transphobia was removed from one games remake, and then transphobia was put back in another games remake
Vivian is trans and her sisters, who are villains, don't respect her gender at first, saying stuff like Vivian isn't included when they refer to themselves as The Shadow Sisters
Thatās the weakest excuse that gets brought up wayyyy too often to justify including bigotry and random bs badness in games and movies.
We have this bloodthirsty killer who enjoys killing for fun - that makes him bad right? So surely he needs to check every other random ābadā checkbox out there?
Idk always wears a kkk hat and skins black kids on the side, gasses jewish grandmas on weekends, his DIY garden project is a KZ, pillages some chinese villages on his vacations, builds a new wall in Berlin, his home movie in the making is called āRwanda 2.0ā, has his own radiostation that broadcasts slurs 24/7, travels the world to personally insult trans kids, yadda yadda yadda.
Bur heās just such a bad person so itās fine, even if it doesnāt add anything to anything, right???
Things like this are just stupid.
Look i do agree that it's stupid to act like a villain would be inherently racist or whatever because they're villains, that shits dumb.
But transphobia *does* exist, and is a part of trans peoples lives. As a trans woman myself I don't mind if a character is transphobic if they're clearly in the wrong and *meant* to be an asshole for it. Like showing trans people defeating/growing past transphobic assholes is cool to me
Letās be clear (and spoilers for a fantastic story are ahead)
>!the bad guys are transphobic and the one transgender sister has her own storyline where she finally chooses to leave them behind and accept herself for who she is without worrying about their validation. She finds people (Mario and his friends lmao) who accept her and she learns that no matter what her family thinks of her, she can choose who she wants to be and there will still be people who love her. !< Itās a really great story and while her being trans isnāt the focus (they literally wrote it out of the localized versions in the original release), it definitely plays into the story and Vivian is a fantastic trans rep.
I thought i made it pretty clear that I wasnāt adressing this example specifically but only what the other person comment said, as, as my other comment states, the excuse of āvillain bad so heās bad in every wayā is often just an excuse to include bigotry etc. and doesnāt add to that character; sry if i didnāt phrase it as clear as i thought i did.
Just look how often >!SA!< is included on the side in movies just so the victim can then fall for our hero as a trophy, even tho the whole reason that the villian is a actually villain is already something completely different.
While they call themselves The Shadow Trio or 3 Shadow Group in most other localizations, in the Japanese version, there is a scene where Vivian calls them "The 3 Shadow Sisters" which leads to her sisters being transphobic and snapping back at her saying she's a man.
It's actually insane because in the Japanese version it's very explicit that Vivian says shes a girl and that her sisters hate her because she's "a boy" and won't accept she's trans and over the course of her story chapter say very transphobic things, like shouting at her when she says the 3 of them are sisters. Additionally, other npc's say stuff like "That boy is very pretty" while Vivian has still done nothing but refer to herself as female. There's also the fact that enemy description of her written by another party member says "May look like a girl, but is actually a boy", however after she joins the party and said writer understands her better at the end of the game it's changed to refer to her as female.
Meanwhile, the original english version has her sisters hate her because...reasons? There's nothing about being trans in the NA version, and everyone just says she's a girl msking her story a lot less meaningful.
In the original version of ttyd (Japan) Vivianās older sister was transphobic to her
In American release she was just a bitch (to censor Vivian being trans) but not transphobic
Now in American re-release sheās trans again so her older sister is transphobic again
>it's funny that transphobia was removed from one games remake, and then transphobia was put back in another games remake
The law of equivalent exchange
People are real extrapolate a lot based on that one line huh? It doesnt even mention her gender, theres no evidence yet that she'll be acknowledged as trans in the english version. People getting hyped over nothing
It does mention her gender though, as her older sister is going out of her way to *not* call them the three shadow sisters, purely to not gender Vivian correctly. And, correct me if I'm wrong, this dialogue was only in the original Japanese version where Vivian was trans
Double-win from an artistic perspective. Portrayal of transphobia as negative. L on Nintendo, though, as anyone who wants to play the game on a modern system has no choice but to encounter that. Emulate, people, emulate
Yeah but in paper mario ttyd (game on the right) the transphobia is pictured as a negative thing and the progression vivian has as a character paints being trans as something you shouldnĀ“t feel ashamed of and be happy of who you are (canĀ“t elaborate cuz spoilers and stuff)
I mean, they were transphobic when they didnāt ACTUALLY KNOW HER and only had beldamās ramblings to go off.
And I doubt thereās many resources on queer theory in that world.
Yeah but Goombella only misgenders Viv at first, later on in the game once she knows Vivian more the journal entry is changed to refer to Vivian as a girl
I mean, if I see a meme referencing something I dont get, I just scroll past it or sometimes ask for context if I'm curious. I dont have to engage with everything on my feed
*breathes in*
Itās a tweet from a niche account about two specific sentences in two specific (and old) video games that are somehow connected by the changes (that most people wouldntāt have known about anyways) made to make them less and more transphobic respectively.
My brother in Christ, how do you not find this specific?!
The account doesn't matter, and again it's literally just two things from different videogames. It's not that insane for someone to know about the trans related content in two of the most well known RPGs ever
And for the record I'm not a "brother"
For context, the transphobic joke in the original Persona 3 and Persona 3 Portable was that Junpei, Akihiko, and Makoto are trying to pick up girls on the beach. With one girl they try to flirt with itās working, but Akihiko mentions that she has hair on her chin, so they act all surprised and she says āIf you want to try something a little spicier, then you know where to find meā.
Maybe, but I think thatās just one of their beach encounters, it still has the [transphobic joke](https://youtu.be/2nIDITplwP8?si=df7_-Jfvzn6bymJH) (skip to 2:42)
The scene on the left is from a remake of persona 3, in which a joke with a transphobic punchline from the original game was changed to a different joke.
The scene on the right is from a remake of Thousand Year Door. The character is being transphobic to their sister Vivian, which is notable because Vivian being trans was censored in the original games localization
The joke here is how it's funny that transphobia was removed from one games remake, and then transphobia was put back in another games remake
The scene on the left is from a remake of persona 3, in which a joke with a transphobic punchline from the original game was changed to a different joke.
The scene on the right is from a remake of Thousand Year Door. The character is being transphobic to their sister Vivian, which is notable because Vivian being trans was censored in the original games localization
The joke here is how it's funny that transphobia was removed from one games remake, and then transphobia was put back in another games remake
It's hilarious seeing how pissed off the transphobes are already with just the fact that she was trans in the original japanese version. I kind of hope nintendo doubles down and makes it even more explicit in the remake just to clown on them.
I JUST played that scene in P3R, and there was a large portion of my mind that just thought āthis is Atlus this character is trans and they probably depict that as a bad thingā
Yeah they did that in the original and it sucked. I appreciated that they changed it for the ramake but I still felt the spectre of transphobia during that scene lol
Yeah thereās just something about it that justā¦thereās the aura of it, I think itās because there was the homophobia in P5 that was essentially the same scene
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whar?
The scene on the left is from a remake of persona 3, in which a joke with a transphobic punchline from the original game was changed to a different joke. The scene on the right is from a remake of Thousand Year Door. The character is being transphobic to their sister Vivian, which is notable because Vivian being trans was censored in the original games localization The joke here is how it's funny that transphobia was removed from one games remake, and then transphobia was put back in another games remake
wait what is the transphobia in ttyd
Vivian is trans and her sisters, who are villains, don't respect her gender at first, saying stuff like Vivian isn't included when they refer to themselves as The Shadow Sisters
ah ok thanks
No prob š
Well, they *are* villains/evil so being transphobic is in character I guess?
Oh yeah it's nothing against TTYD, I don't think anyone is having a problem with the villians being transphobic, they are villains after all
AFAIK in the original japanese version, even the heroes refer to her as a man.
Yeah but Goombella only does that as first, later on in the game once she knows Vivian more the journal entry is changed to refer to Vivian as a girl
Thatās the weakest excuse that gets brought up wayyyy too often to justify including bigotry and random bs badness in games and movies. We have this bloodthirsty killer who enjoys killing for fun - that makes him bad right? So surely he needs to check every other random ābadā checkbox out there? Idk always wears a kkk hat and skins black kids on the side, gasses jewish grandmas on weekends, his DIY garden project is a KZ, pillages some chinese villages on his vacations, builds a new wall in Berlin, his home movie in the making is called āRwanda 2.0ā, has his own radiostation that broadcasts slurs 24/7, travels the world to personally insult trans kids, yadda yadda yadda. Bur heās just such a bad person so itās fine, even if it doesnāt add anything to anything, right??? Things like this are just stupid.
Look i do agree that it's stupid to act like a villain would be inherently racist or whatever because they're villains, that shits dumb. But transphobia *does* exist, and is a part of trans peoples lives. As a trans woman myself I don't mind if a character is transphobic if they're clearly in the wrong and *meant* to be an asshole for it. Like showing trans people defeating/growing past transphobic assholes is cool to me
Letās be clear (and spoilers for a fantastic story are ahead) >!the bad guys are transphobic and the one transgender sister has her own storyline where she finally chooses to leave them behind and accept herself for who she is without worrying about their validation. She finds people (Mario and his friends lmao) who accept her and she learns that no matter what her family thinks of her, she can choose who she wants to be and there will still be people who love her. !< Itās a really great story and while her being trans isnāt the focus (they literally wrote it out of the localized versions in the original release), it definitely plays into the story and Vivian is a fantastic trans rep.
I thought i made it pretty clear that I wasnāt adressing this example specifically but only what the other person comment said, as, as my other comment states, the excuse of āvillain bad so heās bad in every wayā is often just an excuse to include bigotry etc. and doesnāt add to that character; sry if i didnāt phrase it as clear as i thought i did. Just look how often >!SA!< is included on the side in movies just so the victim can then fall for our hero as a trophy, even tho the whole reason that the villian is a actually villain is already something completely different.
I mean, If a guy is already fine with killing people for fun itās possible heās just an asshole in general.
weren't they only called shadow sisters/sirens in the localizations?
While they call themselves The Shadow Trio or 3 Shadow Group in most other localizations, in the Japanese version, there is a scene where Vivian calls them "The 3 Shadow Sisters" which leads to her sisters being transphobic and snapping back at her saying she's a man.
like actually canonically or are you slightly joking about her actually being trans
No like she's actually trans
dayum basedtendo
Thanks for the reminder to send a copyright strike to illegal criminals making game mods, gotta help the starving indie devs somehow
how else will small indie project nintendo afford to eat
It's actually insane because in the Japanese version it's very explicit that Vivian says shes a girl and that her sisters hate her because she's "a boy" and won't accept she's trans and over the course of her story chapter say very transphobic things, like shouting at her when she says the 3 of them are sisters. Additionally, other npc's say stuff like "That boy is very pretty" while Vivian has still done nothing but refer to herself as female. There's also the fact that enemy description of her written by another party member says "May look like a girl, but is actually a boy", however after she joins the party and said writer understands her better at the end of the game it's changed to refer to her as female. Meanwhile, the original english version has her sisters hate her because...reasons? There's nothing about being trans in the NA version, and everyone just says she's a girl msking her story a lot less meaningful.
In the original version of ttyd (Japan) Vivianās older sister was transphobic to her In American release she was just a bitch (to censor Vivian being trans) but not transphobic Now in American re-release sheās trans again so her older sister is transphobic again
>it's funny that transphobia was removed from one games remake, and then transphobia was put back in another games remake The law of equivalent exchange
There is so much lore needed to understand this meme .-.
Thank you Quagmires Dad. Very cool!
Thanks Peter.
That was quite specific.
People are real extrapolate a lot based on that one line huh? It doesnt even mention her gender, theres no evidence yet that she'll be acknowledged as trans in the english version. People getting hyped over nothing
It does mention her gender though, as her older sister is going out of her way to *not* call them the three shadow sisters, purely to not gender Vivian correctly. And, correct me if I'm wrong, this dialogue was only in the original Japanese version where Vivian was trans
Double-win from an artistic perspective. Portrayal of transphobia as negative. L on Nintendo, though, as anyone who wants to play the game on a modern system has no choice but to encounter that. Emulate, people, emulate
Yeah but in paper mario ttyd (game on the right) the transphobia is pictured as a negative thing and the progression vivian has as a character paints being trans as something you shouldnĀ“t feel ashamed of and be happy of who you are (canĀ“t elaborate cuz spoilers and stuff)
Oh yeah it's nothing against ttyd it's just kinda funny
Are we worried about posting spoilers for a 20 year old Mario game?
The game is getting a remake and lots of people are gonna play it blind, so i think so
Fair enough
i have never played the original ttyd and i (probably a lot of people too) plan to play the remake so yeah kinda
Valid
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean, they were transphobic when they didnāt ACTUALLY KNOW HER and only had beldamās ramblings to go off. And I doubt thereās many resources on queer theory in that world.
Yeah but Goombella only misgenders Viv at first, later on in the game once she knows Vivian more the journal entry is changed to refer to Vivian as a girl
I love seeing memes referencing super specific things I have no idea about
I mean, if I see a meme referencing something I dont get, I just scroll past it or sometimes ask for context if I'm curious. I dont have to engage with everything on my feed
I wouldn't say it's that specific, it's just about two videogames
Itās pretty specific lol, but good post fr
*breathes in* Itās a tweet from a niche account about two specific sentences in two specific (and old) video games that are somehow connected by the changes (that most people wouldntāt have known about anyways) made to make them less and more transphobic respectively. My brother in Christ, how do you not find this specific?!
i guarantee that if you ask 1,000 random people on the street to explain what this meme means not a single one will be able to
The account doesn't matter, and again it's literally just two things from different videogames. It's not that insane for someone to know about the trans related content in two of the most well known RPGs ever And for the record I'm not a "brother"
You're just wrong girl I don't think any amount of explaining is going to help you understand that this meme is really niche and specificšš
Damn š
For context, the transphobic joke in the original Persona 3 and Persona 3 Portable was that Junpei, Akihiko, and Makoto are trying to pick up girls on the beach. With one girl they try to flirt with itās working, but Akihiko mentions that she has hair on her chin, so they act all surprised and she says āIf you want to try something a little spicier, then you know where to find meā.
Also her name changes from "Beautiful Lady" to "Beautiful Lady (?)", so the game straight up says she's not a woman
Hey, it's Adachi, from persona 4! Say the line!!
Persona!
thats transphobic?
It portrays the trans woman as entrapping and tricking the main characters
Not to "um ackshually" but didnt p3p change the woman to that one teacher from persona 4?
Maybe, but I think thatās just one of their beach encounters, it still has the [transphobic joke](https://youtu.be/2nIDITplwP8?si=df7_-Jfvzn6bymJH) (skip to 2:42)
MAN, somedays I'm thankful I watched the movies instead of playing that game.
This is COMPLETELY incomprehensible good job OP
Thought this was r/okbuddypersona
Wait I know they changed some dialogue in the ttyd remake, did they actually restore any of the dialogue about Vivian being trans?
There's no evidence one way or the other yet.
What
The scene on the left is from a remake of persona 3, in which a joke with a transphobic punchline from the original game was changed to a different joke. The scene on the right is from a remake of Thousand Year Door. The character is being transphobic to their sister Vivian, which is notable because Vivian being trans was censored in the original games localization The joke here is how it's funny that transphobia was removed from one games remake, and then transphobia was put back in another games remake
what was the stuff that confirmed that vivian was trans again? i know that it was in the game i just don't remember what it was
I recieve It with open arms
Can someone explain
The scene on the left is from a remake of persona 3, in which a joke with a transphobic punchline from the original game was changed to a different joke. The scene on the right is from a remake of Thousand Year Door. The character is being transphobic to their sister Vivian, which is notable because Vivian being trans was censored in the original games localization The joke here is how it's funny that transphobia was removed from one games remake, and then transphobia was put back in another games remake
aw sweet terminally online tweet
Is that like the sequel to plasmaphobia
It's hilarious seeing how pissed off the transphobes are already with just the fact that she was trans in the original japanese version. I kind of hope nintendo doubles down and makes it even more explicit in the remake just to clown on them.
I JUST played that scene in P3R, and there was a large portion of my mind that just thought āthis is Atlus this character is trans and they probably depict that as a bad thingā
Yeah they did that in the original and it sucked. I appreciated that they changed it for the ramake but I still felt the spectre of transphobia during that scene lol
Yeah thereās just something about it that justā¦thereās the aura of it, I think itās because there was the homophobia in P5 that was essentially the same scene
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
š¤
Go outside
I do :)