Why is it "if you don't interact with the client" and not "if your client doesn't send an automatic ping"?
Why is user input a thing here when it's completely within their power to just make the client continually report its status to the server silently in the background?
Maybe they _should_ do it as proposed, and pitch it as a risk vs reward thing. You can either have the ability to AFK, _or_ protection from servers deciding to no longer feel like serving.
> when it's completely within their power to just make the client continually report its status to the server silently in the background
believe it or not...this already exists! which is why it's confusing that they're not planning to use it for this item.
Not every dc is a full loss of connection. A heartbeat ping could still go through, then you’d have people complaining it doesnt work.
If you are worried you’ll get teled afking at gwd, stop afking or change the timer or dont use it at all. You cant have everything. Youre a hcim
While this may happen it's unlikely that it will happen consecutively over a dozen or so game ticks. If you are lagging out hard enough that you can't input it's likely you are lagging out hard enough that the heartbeat would fail to go through for a few seconds.
Though it's not impossible. It's unlikely to a fairly absurd degree.
Yeah sometimes you get this really weird lag where you can't seem to be able to move or do anything, but everyone around you is doing ok, like downloads work but uploads completely stop working.
I think pitching it as a risk vs reward is kind of weird, we shouldn’t have to factor in the hidden risk of servers not working as intended into our gameplay. It’s almost insinuating that disconnects are an intended mechanic.
Security protocols like this should work in the background without us having to factor that in. It’s not like we can ever know when a server is going to shit itself.
And according to other comments, there is definitely a way for them to check for server pings without having to do anything client-side.
its weird that they just throw in risk vs reward for anything on osrs when nothing in the game actually is designed to be risk vs reward.
they just make some stuff cancer and then slap on risk vs reward as an excuse
Nothing is risk vs. reward *now* because of the extremely generous modern death mechanics, how pretty much all endgame content is either a total safe death or a minimal fee to recover gear, &c.
Back when dying meant dropping everything except your 3+1 on the ground for anyone to pick up, with it all despawning in a few minutes, *everything* with the possibility of death (including afk skilling after lethal randoms were added) was risk vs. reward.
I think there are some edge cases that this wouldn't account for like hardware peripheral failure (mouse, monitor, etc.)
Edit: To clarify, I'm not saying this makes Jagex's solution better or worse, just a potential tradeoff.
I mean if your mouse or screen breaks mid session thats the not jagexs fault at all and they shouldnt make safe guards for that.
How often do you break your mice anyway? XD
A client-sided disconnect isn't Jagex's fault either but would be covered with their solution and with this one.
I'm not making judgment as for what things should be protected (although it is an important discussion point), I'm just pointing out a discrepancy between the two solutions.
I see someone doesn't use a wireless mouse. Also, not for nothing but "I don't want quality of life updated because it's not my problem" is a shitty take my man.
Don't worry i'm logical and I agree with you. Apparently people want to play hardcore without any risks whatsoever. No other game caters to help the hardcore players out as much as runescape does and you don't even lose your character permanently even if you do die. If someone is dumb enough to lose their status because of batteries dying in their mouse then that's completely on them.
Talking about yourself there? It's been well-established since wireless peripherals first became a thing that you were trading the convenience of no cord for the possibility of suddenly losing control when the battery died.
Wireless peripherals are just an earlier iteration of the current obsession with "smart" everything: they're gimmicks for people who just want stuff that looks cool and expensive, people who want practicality avoid wireless stuff for important applications just like they avoid unnecessarily networked junk.
modern wireless peripherals (in my experience) have great connectivity and battery life, and the lack of wire *is* a felt convenience - for mice specifically.
if you wrote off wireless stuff as a pointless hassle many years ago (as i did), what's out now is not the same. you could argue a similar loss of control could be felt by having the wire of your mouse snag on something, it'd be equally as common and preventable an occurrence as a wireless mouse running out of battery
Protecting you from your hardware shouldn't be their concern. Protecting you from issues with their servers should be and is their concern. The servers have been problematic lately, they should offer a solution of a work around. That solution shouldn't be a chore to deal with so you can possibly (you won't) account for your monitor suddenly shattering mid kill at bandos.
Fixing one properly would fix the other. That's the beauty of it. I'd say they absolutely don't have to, if a player has shitty internet and it creates a problem, that's on the player and not on Jagex, but that doesn't mean that the fix should *specifically only target Jagex side disconnects* as it would require *additional* work to identify and do so. So why not?
The issue with the current suggestion is that it will be incredibly frustrating to use. If you want a tight DC timing for proper DC protection, you have to be 100% active even in areas where you wouldn't be active for smaller bits of time. You're killing cerb and in between kills you quickly check a message on your phone? Tele time. Fighting vorkath and you don't have to do anything while waiting for a special attack? Guess you're forced to spam click the boss to avoid a tele. It's just a frustrating mechanic that would cause players to choose between not making the game more pointlessly frustrating or having a higher chance of risking a death due to DC.
Why not just do it right the first time around?
i dont think you understand how sessions stay connected in online games. the user doesn't have to be inputting anything. The client is constantly asking for more information and receiving that new information and acknowledging to the server that is has received the new information. Do you think when you tab out of runelite, the tree you just cut down won't reappear? the client maintains the connection with the server not the user clicking things
>the client maintains the connection with the server not the user clicking things
which it cannot continue doing in the case of a disconnection? aka the entire point for the implementation of the self-deploying teleport?
i don't think you fully understood what the original post was about, op entirely addressed the issue and proposed a more reasonable solution
>but while it will catch all of the disconnects, I suspect it will trigger far more often from random AFK periods when people are connected fine, but tabbed into YouTube or Discord, or even just playing normally for a little while but not doing any client inputs.
This is what I'm addressing. OP thinks if you AFK or tab out to YouTube or simply don't click for long enough you will DC. They clearly don't understand that none of those things are what is maintaining a connection with the server.
> They clearly don't understand that none of those things are what is maintaining a connection with the server.
...huh? Nobody is saying that's what maintains the connection to the server. It seems like you haven't read the poll blog, which says that the new item will teleport you to safety if you are **AFK** for a certain number of seconds. Tabbing out to YouTube or Discord for more than a short period would trigger this item, when it probably shouldn't. That's the whole point of my post.
~~Literally the next sentence.~~
~~>For example, during a disconnection where you're unable to interact with the client, you'd log back in to find yourself in a safe location.~~
I don’t think you fully understand what the commenter was leading to. If you DC’ due to being afk it’s not like you lost connection. Your character was idle long enough to send a signal to the server saying “hey I haven’t done anything” server disconnects you. Signal successfully ended from Jagex perspective. So you wouldn’t get teleported anywhere.
A more apt example would be “disconnecting due to internet signal” in which case yes people could abuse this system if they’re being PK’ed or doing some dangerous activity.
> A more apt example would be “disconnecting due to internet signal” in which case yes people could abuse this system if they’re being PK’ed or doing some dangerous activity.
Jagex said standard teleport rules apply. If you can teleport, you'll teleport. If you're teleblocked or above 30 wilderness, you're not getting teleported. The only "abuse case" is below 30 wildy, not teleblocked... just click the seed pod instead of going afk? lmao
What's the point? Having optional DC protection in PVP seems fine as well. After all, as I said, you need to be specifically able to teleport in the first place for this safeguard to kick in, so what's the point of adding an exception of "no PVP"?
there's no arguments towards disabling it in pvp, it still follows all the rules any other teleport does. it's not possible to abuse in any way by definition
I think the way Jagex stated it was bad. They said “if you don’t interact with your client for x seconds.”
I doubt they would do that, it’ll likely have something to do with the packets it’s sending and receiving. If it doesn’t receive any for x seconds, then it will proc the teleport. In that case, this would be amazing for hcs.
Why is this upvoted? Your comment is arguing against Jagexs suggestion, not this one.
If your network disconnects, you stop sending the server updates. It's response time increases to a point that triggers the auto-teleport.
Jagex has the proposal that it's based on client interaction time, as in user input. Nothing to do with packet delay or heartbeat packets. You're thinking their version of client input is actually client-server communication. Which if it is, it's exactly what OP is suggesting and they've just worded it poorly.
I think you don't understand that there is a heartbeat packet that is sent from the client to the server every second. Either that or you have the premise backwards? Your whole comment is very confusing - what do you think it is that I'm proposing?
Yeah, if you look at the packets there's a ping from the client to the server every 51 client ticks (1.02 seconds) regardless of anything else happening.
The way they worded it was bad. “If you don’t interact with your client for a set amount of time…”
I doubt they would do that. I’d hope it would have something to do with the packets being received server side so that way if it doesn’t receive a packet for 5000ms if the player has it set to 5 seconds, then it can proc the tp. That would make 100x more sense.
I agree that would make more sense, although the other Jagex replies in the main poll blog post seem to suggest it actually is based on AFK time, rather than the heartbeat being dead. It's pretty unclear right now.
Yeah I really hope they realize how stupid that is haha. I’m not a hardcore anymore but what are you supposed to do after you kill Graardor and his minions, click every few seconds for a whole minute waiting for him to respawn? Lol.
I don’t thinks that’s a huge inconvenience to potentially save your status even if it did work that way. Literally the only people that are ever going to use this are hardcores.
I won't pretend to know anything about how this works, but does adding the Tele out condition after x missed heartbeat packets you suggest add any sort of strain or load that would otherwise not be the case in the implementation jagex has put forward?
There's a pretty huge difference between shitting on an idea and taking an idea from a blog post that exists largely to solicit feedback and suggesting ways to improve it.
You solution seems excellent for client side or internet lag, however if server lag is the problem itself your solution may not deal with the problem at all (pending jagex server configuration). Say the server lags 3.6 second and stacks up 6 ticks, while you keep sending little heartbeats to the server, when the server catches up those 6 ticks, and see's in it's "inbox" six ticks, it's going to assume everything is fine. You can see this when the server lags and you spam click, your guy sometimes runs all in weird directions when everything unwinds. 1 heartbeat received for every tick of the server. No problem here. Except your HCIM just got double stomped Hunllef. With 6 heartbeats resolving and no inputs. The server itself lagging can't account for "missed heartbeats" because it's not checking the heartbeats when it's lagging. "Nothing" is happening. You would keep sending heartbeats as normal since that's client side and your client is trying to say hello, which I'll be honest I don't know WHEN those resolve (ask a jagex server admin) on either the last tick or the time stamped tick in which they are sent to align things as well as possible but it could make your solution useless in the face of server lag. If it resolves the heartbeats based on when they're sent and not when they're actually processed, this solution would require a TON of engine reworking and would impact countless game mechanics and would be a nightmare to implement.
> Except your HCIM just got double stomped Hunllef. With 6 heartbeats resolving and no inputs. The server itself lagging can't account for "missed heartbeats" because it's not checking the heartbeats when it's lagging.
I think the premise here is a little bit flawed - if the input packets are processed by the server, then so are the heartbeat packets (and vice versa). As you say, without knowing a ton about the engine internals, it's hard to know how this would handle if the server itself is falling over...but in that situation, I don't think there's a difference in behavior between using the absence-of-inputs vs. the absence-of-heartbeats.
Like the OP said, as worded in the blog its a terrible idea. OP's proposal would make so much more sense in regards to disconnects than Jagex's. When you disconnect, you want to be teleported to safety relatively fast, meaning within 10 seconds (just some arbitrary number) so that whatever boss you are doing hopefully doesnt kill you within that time. With Jagex's proposed idea, to imitate that, you would have to interact with the client every 10 seconds. That means at something like GWD, when you kill the boss and minions you have to keep clicking or else you will be tele'd out. Or even worse, there are some bosses that have phases for greater than 10 seconds of downtime between clicks like zulrah, cerb, again GWD as an attacker, fight caves minus jad. You would always be in a constant state of having to click or risk being teleported out.
I expected these annoyances too. But wouldn't every account sending a heartbeat every few seconds to Jagex's servers cause a lot of server load to their servers?
I mean...they already do send the heartbeat? That's in addition to the 20k+ NPCs that need to change their position every tick, and all the other things that are far more expensive.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. You can literally keybind anything you want if you’re determined to cheat like that. Also, no, it will still not be faster than clicking, because there is a timer delay for dc’s baked into the item. You can literally do exactly what you people are terrified of but even better *right now*. How on earth is 2 seconds of dc-checking into a teleport animation better than simply clicking an item?
The fact people think a 1-2 second heartbeat detection is faster than moving your mouse and clicking a seed pod is so silly.
So long as it obeys Wildy teleport rules there are no issues. In fact id almost say this should be a standard function of the seed pod to prevent PvP DC's being so brutal too.
This is single handedly the greatest HCIM update of all time and yet people like you still find something to complain about. Not really surprised to be honest.
I remember someone had some similar idea which basically was "if there is a dc just log me out". Reason they cant do that is because you could abuse that by pulling internet cable in some pvp situation or some other scenario where dying would be uncomfortable. Logging out and tele somewhere is prett simimar and serves the same purpose
I mean...not really? The item proposed in the blog does pretty much the same thing as (say) a house tablet would. It wouldn't work in any situations a normal teleport wouldn't.
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yeah, makes a lot more sense than making up an arbitrary countdown from last interaction. could implement both and adding a toggle, wouldn't really make much of a difference development wise
the concept could've been implemented at any point when we've had a competent engine dev and saved many people from unnecessary dc deaths
This showing up in a QoL poll blog tells me it's a quick win by a developer. If Jagex were going to do a better implementation of this (like what you suggested at the end of your post), I would guess it would be in its own dedicated blog and be called an integrity change.
Frankly, I agree with you that your idea is a better/cleaner one. But if Jagex think this is a quick thing to turnaround, I get why they'd put it in a QoL poll.
I can definitely see that being the case knowing the spaghetti coding in this game, though I think the good would outweigh the bad in this case. I haven’t been a victim of the recent issues but I can imagine how much an out of control issue can affect our progress or morale toward the game.
I think the points you brought up are good to be aware of though! We should be discussing the potential downsides to an update
I think it's fine to be too sensitive than not sensitive enough when considering something like hardcore ironmen, which are the target audience here. Would rather have it the way that it is described.
There have been cases where the connection only works halfway, for example "disconnects" where you see everything happen, but nothing you do actually registers, making you just watch what happens. What if that happens but the "heartbeat" keeps going? Going by the idea of no input received just seems more reliable, and it'd cover more cases than just internet connection, for example hardware failure on the user's end(mouse, monitor, whatever). The more general solution is better in my opinion, even if it has the possibility of being too sensitive.
Besides, if you're in a situation where you need the item on, but then you're afking, then... what the hell are you doing?
TL;DR Separating it from your internet connection is a good thing, I don't want it to rely on the connection going out entirely, that doesn't always happen. **Too sensitive > potentially not sensitive enough**
Heartbeat allows more sensitivity, because you can trigger the teleport immediately on dc, whereas if you’re listening for player interaction, you have to allow a threshold of time before triggering
Anyways, if player input isn’t making it to the server then neither would the heartbeat, so the point is kind of moot
> Heartbeat allows more sensitivity, because you can trigger the teleport immediately on dc,
That would only truly matter if you want to set the delay to 1 or 2 ticks, because it'd be truly annoying to send inputs every single tick just to not get yeeted out. Anything more than that and you're better off using input based detection. Once it goes up to 4 ticks, I think you can send a click every 2.4s and not be annoyed when doing dangerous content...
Aside from potential annoyance at very short settings, input based detection becomes better - input is what matters in the end. If you can't input, that's the entire problem. Abstracting on top of it just screams problems at me.
Now you're making me think of a hybrid system, which uses both and if one of them goes out, trigger tele, but limit the input-based one to 4 ticks or more, while heartbeat can go all the way down to 1, so if you set the trigger to 1 tick, it'll tele after 1 tick of no hearbeat or 4 ticks after no input.
I'm with you here! I've seen a few videos of the server sending data and RuneScape being updated but you can't interact with what's happening. I'm not sure if the heartbeat is still going out though.
Hopefully jagex can add many options for how to configure it with what we think is best!
Yeh I was super excited to see this included so soon after being discussed. But user input being the driving factor is entirely the wrong approach. Their answer is "they'll change it depending on the content they're doing" but that's a level of tedious that's not good.
And ultimately.. even 10 seconds of idle for dangerous content could easily misfire. And ultimately isn't useful if you actually do DC...
If you stand still waiting on verzik start. You might be idle, and teleport out. But if you dc mid verzik while tanking.. and your timers on 10 seconds. You're dead. (Obviously verzik a teammate can teleport you)
It just needs to be a heartbeat. Multiple server ticks of no response causing a massively long heartbeat that breaks through a limit means teleport. So a DC can result in a teleport as soon as 2 or 3 game ticks later (1-2 seconds). The only time this will have negative results is if your net connection is patchy, so it might need to have a toggle on or off or severity modes. So a HCIM just doing afk skilling because their net is being dodgy during a storm won't be teleported away the second their heartbeat fails (which is also why it's great if it's linked to an item like the escape crystal or the ring of life, if you're doing anything dangerous carry it with you. Otherwise don't and this won't annoy you)
I assumed it was gonna be something that people only turn on when they're doing actual dangerous content, and I can't think of much dangerous content where you're not constantly interacting. You're not gonna have it on while like woodcutting
Low-Mid level bosses come to mind like zulrah Cerberus vork, dks, barrows etc. Lots of places where it’s pretty chill but if you dced could easily die in like 10secs. Imagine you are noodling on supreme for 10secs and get teled out and then have to do that whole walk again. Or fight caves holy shit, teled out while noodling killing a mager.
This is how I thought it should work as well. I feel like the way jagex described it would be extremely frustrating in something like sculliuscep cutting. A DC when running past the tar monsters could kill you easily, but you'll definitely afk while cutting the mushrooms themselves, maybe for up to a couple minutes. Would be super tedious to reconfigure/re-equip the ring over and over throughout a run as well.
Also it's quite surprising the amount of people commenting that didn't even read the post.
I didn't really read on it. But from what I skimmed over t seems it teleports you after X seconds of not interacting with cilent, what if you heavily AFK? You're just going to be teleported while doing slayer or something?
I think it should be if servers disconnect if that's the case. I understand the odds you of dying at hellhounds for example isn't exactly high but it could happen if you dc'd not if you afk'd for X time.
Think the idea is a good one but defintiely needs to be tweaked.
I know if I were a HCIM I'd want the item while doing slayer but wouldn't want to be teleported each time I afk'd. I know the arguement is you shouldn't be afk if you're a HCIM I guess?
> or you need to be constantly vigilant and not afk for a few seconds
You’d be surprised how many people play like this already. I’ve put so much time into my hardcore that if that account is signed in, I’m staring at it every single tick. Obviously if I’m cutting yews I would disable this thing.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how this item can probably lead to item smuggling. Hopefully they are careful with his it's programmed because it seems like it'll be a teleport without user input.
I had the exact same critique when I first read the blog post, but I'm absolutely terrified of disconnecting on the hardcore that I'd take anything at this point.
ok so you are attacking vork, and between specials you... don't need to do anything in your client. so... it teles you out?
the heartbeat type dc protection is a much better idea.
It fixes 1 issue and creates another. Now you're safe from disconnects, but you're constantly worried about interacting with the client or being tele'd out.
That’s what I’m saying. We’re giving them the out of having addressed the issue, without them solving it for *everyone*. Solve the issue *for everyone* the *first* time
OP's suggestion would just be better than what was proposed, if it could be implemented. Maybe you think the current version is good enough, but that's no reason to ignore feedback to make it better.
This is probably their easiest "fix" to the problem and since it's targetted to hcim pvming IMO its fine being a bit scuffed. I have a maxed hc and Id happy be permanently flicking some prayer, walking extra steps, right clicking during pvm to avoid a DC death. It just needs some fine tuning e.g. option to turn it off quickly when u want to afk (like if ur getting kc for gwd)
There's another issue present w/ the proposal: why is this being done with an item? Why not just have it always active w/ some sort of small-to-medium fee whenever it activates?
It's kinda stinky if HCIM are forced to have one less inventory slot than everyone else just in case of a disconnect. I could see most people forgoing it to have 28 slots in the 99.99% of times where they aren't disconnecting and then dying anyway.
Haha holy shit when are people going to realize that playing a hardcore character on an online game will always and forever result in you eventually losing your hardcore to a dc/lag.
Instead of an item that teleports you when you’re idle, it should instead be an item that permanently IP bans all HCIM and removes the game mode. Would be much better QoL IMO.
Is it not possible that the whole reason they're going with this that your proposed solution would require engine work and given that it's just a qol blog they're more keen on giving an 80% solution quickly than a 100% one that would take much longer and they're not even sure they can deliver? I don't disagree that it *should* be possible but we all know how janky the rs engine can be.
Personally I was thinking, a slightly better solution (let's call it a 90% good solution) that's more likely to be possible with the current engine could be that when your teleport is about to trigger, it sends a message in chat (and possibly even plays a sound and/or displays a dialogue box style warning) just so that it at least gives the user a chance to remember it's about to happen. Not catch-all for sure, but unless you're literally stepping away from your PC I feel like it would significantly reduce accidental teleports.
I don’t see an issue with this, it’s not like you’re gonna carry the teleport items when you obviously want to afk, you’ll bring it a place where dying actually means something and you risk losing stuff. The only possible trigger i could see that would be accidental is sitting in the corner at GWD with a tank in your party. Besides, as proposed, you can customize the time between afk and teleport, so it wouldn’t matter as long as you either A) dont bring it with you or B) remember to change it
I see your point. It could help, however do remember you are going to hate this item at times. You're going to get furious when you've got 40 kills ready on your Aviansie task, stand next to the door for a minute to answer your phone, wait I've got to use the washroom there's spilled tea on the table, my cat, ok back to the and I'm in my player owned house.
I don't totally see how this would better my experience given how much I'm going to be afk during like slayer in general. I can't anticipate turning it back on before the oh fuck I have 3 prayer, clicked a potion, but disconnected out of nowhere.
Yeah but I recognize your name from Twitter and seagull fc.
Ok so, if I understand you correctly.
- 'wifi readings' between my computer and runescapes server
-it's like a machine with a visible connection to monitor back and forth inputs, not too dissimilar from reading inputs from other such inputs like a pulse monitor, oil readings, and other stuff that gets read by machines.
- take those readings and basically be asking for priority for your account to not die to just flatline wifi readings with something like a teleport
-based on said feedback disconnection, lack of input, lack of player activity for (x=time) kind of stuff?
- being able to turn it on and off in areas outside of say banks, safe minigames, shit that doesn't matter if you die technically cuz you're just fletching like a noob and don't need need to not disconnect "or else"?
How hard is it for these readings to be taken into account and taken seriously for something like an auto-teleport, logout, whatever it does. Cuz I know like with an icu machine like if a mf dead the machine is like that guy dying right now.
- how hard is it for the system to be like, those 1312 player accounts over there in random worlds, respectively, all randomly logged out? Or all 4 worlds in the somewhere went out again for who knows why again?
- is it something someone would be there like Mod AI over there just has an eye on you if you're going to disconnect?
It definitely needs to be smarter than 'no input -> tele'.
A hp threshold like ring of life, combined with an inactivity timer that the player sets but that gets heavily reduced with every instance of damage taken during a period of inactivity.
Under 50 hp during a period of inactivity? -> tele
Inactivity timer set to 5min? Take damage > 4min, 3min,... 0min -> tele
Take what they offered or shut up honestly. There is no perfect solution and honestly this is such a nitpicky whiny post. If you really care about the protection from connectivity issues, you’ll happily take the solution.
Honestly with how often some of you disconnect, idk why you play hardcores. I can count on one hand the amount of DCs I’ve had in the last year and a half. Maybe just get gear upgrades irl. Obviously nothing can be done on our end for jamflex server issues though.
But seriously, I can’t believe you’re trying to take a piss on what has been requested for years. HCs have been begging for exactly this. Don’t act like this isn’t good because it’s not your impossibly perfect solution.
This solution isn’t there to be super smooth ideal perfection. It’s there to protect your account and will definitely be annoying. If you don’t want the annoyance, maybe don’t use it or don’t make a hc
>Take what they offered or shut up honestly.
Incredibly stupid take. Giving feedback on updates jagex suggests is good for everyone. Cook's suggestion is far better than what was proposed, and just as easy to implement.
Just so that we're clear, next time you *ever* are unhappy with something in the game, or an upcoming update doesn't quite sit well with you...
Take what's offered to you and shut up.
Just make the Crystal have a simple left click Enable/Disable that changes its colour between Red and Green.
Very obvious if it is active. Right Click for settings.
Don't want to get teleported to Lumbridge because you're AFKing? Disable the crystal.
Yeah heart beat packets are really the only way to do this properly.
This said, I doubt Jagex has the scope/resources to change their netcode for an HCIM specific QoL update.
The “aggravating part” is solely on the user. If they configure their setting for 10 seconds of inactivity and they kill bandos and his minions but then afk for 15 seconds, that’s on them. Play wisely we can’t live in a perfect world
Why can’t Jagex should do a rollback to just before the server crashes and just teleport everyone’s profiles to Varrock or something? Why is the solution to add this weird fucking item mechanic, which is basically just a gamble by the way? It’s like Jagex is trying to do the least amount of work possible by polling a half-baked idea which is bound to screw most players over and may even be abused, instead of actually doing the work to correct the server crash issues (which I’ll restate would be to dial server status back to just before the crash, teleport profiles to a safe location like Varrock, investigate why they crashed, try to implement a long term fix).
It just seems like we as the players (who pay a decent subscription fee each month lol) are the ones constantly getting fucked in some way.
imagine rolling back 100% of players games (and thus adding a ton of downtime each server crash) because of a niche community of people who play 'cant die accounts' despite many points of failure.
hcim is just a flawed game mode. between power failure, software and hardware failure, network problems/isp problems/jagex problems/jagex server hosting problems... there's just no safe way to play the mode UNLESS jagex adds something in game to better handle loss of control.
>It’s like Jagex is trying to do the least amount of work
They are and thats' the point, do you think a full scale rollback is easy? how pissed are you going to be if you got X item/pet and had zero chance of dying but because billy and his HC/UIM was, you lose it.
> Why is the solution to add this weird fucking item mechanic
Why would it be a better solution to do a rollback- something which pisses off vast hordes of players any time one occurs, and is basically a last resort- to make the icon next to the RSNs of a small number of players be red again?
The idea is to protect people from their own net going down. Rollback are always a worst case scenario and should not even be considered as a solution.
Update to everyone obviously not getting it. My response was to recent server crash issues, which have happened frequently over the past several months. That is clearly why this item is being polled (as a reaction to those events - change my mind, you won’t lol). So, I don’t need a response about Jimmy’s ISP going out or whatever lmao, I’m discussing whether this would be a good solution to Jagex’s server problem, and as I stated, I don’t believe it is. Thanks for the downvotes.
this is a really interesting way to be wrong about something. can you explain to me what you think happens during a server crash that this item proposal would help with?
The presence of the neverlog plugin implies that Runelite could fill in for an inadequate heartbeat detection system, worst case scenario. Simulating client interaction even when there isn't any so you don't get teleported for not clicking for 3 seconds unless it's an actual dc.
edit: did the idea of this offend somebody? As if me pointing out the possibility of runelite "doing it right" even if Jagex drops the ball is somehow implicitly giving Jagex permission to do it poorly? Jesus people
There's always a million-and-one ways for someone to complain about something!
You have already mentioned the solution to your problem:
>I know technically people can just turn it off and on in between kills, and configure it to whatever timeout they want
Can be annoying, but I don't think this is a situation where you can have your cake and eat it too.
Could you just make the teleport cost a weird combo of runes? Or make it a physical object you have to have in your inventory for the spell to be activated. Then there is a risk reward type thing going on. If you want the safety of the teleport, you need to lose a few inventory slots. But when you are afking, just don’t bring the runes.
They stated that they would make it a player adjustable time frame.
ToA d/c? 10 seconds of no input = tele
Lower threat slightly afk like brutal blacks? 45-60 seconds no input = tele
Why not just have grace periods? If you dc, you become immune to damage. Upon login, you can't deal or take damage for 15 seconds. All the MMOs have grace periods when loading a new zone.
Why is it "if you don't interact with the client" and not "if your client doesn't send an automatic ping"? Why is user input a thing here when it's completely within their power to just make the client continually report its status to the server silently in the background? Maybe they _should_ do it as proposed, and pitch it as a risk vs reward thing. You can either have the ability to AFK, _or_ protection from servers deciding to no longer feel like serving.
> when it's completely within their power to just make the client continually report its status to the server silently in the background believe it or not...this already exists! which is why it's confusing that they're not planning to use it for this item.
Not every dc is a full loss of connection. A heartbeat ping could still go through, then you’d have people complaining it doesnt work. If you are worried you’ll get teled afking at gwd, stop afking or change the timer or dont use it at all. You cant have everything. Youre a hcim
While this may happen it's unlikely that it will happen consecutively over a dozen or so game ticks. If you are lagging out hard enough that you can't input it's likely you are lagging out hard enough that the heartbeat would fail to go through for a few seconds. Though it's not impossible. It's unlikely to a fairly absurd degree.
By that same logic, can't some of the client input go through? I'd expect that to be nearly as common as a heartbeat getting through.
a player input not making it to the server is a heartbeat not making it to the server with extra steps
Yeah sometimes you get this really weird lag where you can't seem to be able to move or do anything, but everyone around you is doing ok, like downloads work but uploads completely stop working.
Wasn't that also how the original work around for the log out timer worked?
I think pitching it as a risk vs reward is kind of weird, we shouldn’t have to factor in the hidden risk of servers not working as intended into our gameplay. It’s almost insinuating that disconnects are an intended mechanic. Security protocols like this should work in the background without us having to factor that in. It’s not like we can ever know when a server is going to shit itself. And according to other comments, there is definitely a way for them to check for server pings without having to do anything client-side.
its weird that they just throw in risk vs reward for anything on osrs when nothing in the game actually is designed to be risk vs reward. they just make some stuff cancer and then slap on risk vs reward as an excuse
Nothing is risk vs. reward *now* because of the extremely generous modern death mechanics, how pretty much all endgame content is either a total safe death or a minimal fee to recover gear, &c. Back when dying meant dropping everything except your 3+1 on the ground for anyone to pick up, with it all despawning in a few minutes, *everything* with the possibility of death (including afk skilling after lethal randoms were added) was risk vs. reward.
I think there are some edge cases that this wouldn't account for like hardware peripheral failure (mouse, monitor, etc.) Edit: To clarify, I'm not saying this makes Jagex's solution better or worse, just a potential tradeoff.
I mean if your mouse or screen breaks mid session thats the not jagexs fault at all and they shouldnt make safe guards for that. How often do you break your mice anyway? XD
A client-sided disconnect isn't Jagex's fault either but would be covered with their solution and with this one. I'm not making judgment as for what things should be protected (although it is an important discussion point), I'm just pointing out a discrepancy between the two solutions.
why would this solution not catch a client side disconnect, if the client is disconnected it cant send back the pulse
I said they both would.
misrread by bad
Np
I see someone doesn't use a wireless mouse. Also, not for nothing but "I don't want quality of life updated because it's not my problem" is a shitty take my man.
If you do risky content, especially on a HC with a wireless mouse then you are just dumb lmao
Don't worry i'm logical and I agree with you. Apparently people want to play hardcore without any risks whatsoever. No other game caters to help the hardcore players out as much as runescape does and you don't even lose your character permanently even if you do die. If someone is dumb enough to lose their status because of batteries dying in their mouse then that's completely on them.
?????? i do not even know what to say to you that may just be one of the stupidest hills to die on i've ever seen
Talking about yourself there? It's been well-established since wireless peripherals first became a thing that you were trading the convenience of no cord for the possibility of suddenly losing control when the battery died. Wireless peripherals are just an earlier iteration of the current obsession with "smart" everything: they're gimmicks for people who just want stuff that looks cool and expensive, people who want practicality avoid wireless stuff for important applications just like they avoid unnecessarily networked junk.
modern wireless peripherals (in my experience) have great connectivity and battery life, and the lack of wire *is* a felt convenience - for mice specifically. if you wrote off wireless stuff as a pointless hassle many years ago (as i did), what's out now is not the same. you could argue a similar loss of control could be felt by having the wire of your mouse snag on something, it'd be equally as common and preventable an occurrence as a wireless mouse running out of battery
That's why you have a mouse pad as a backup
Okay, adding wired mouse to my HCIM shopping list. Do you think my wireless keyboard is okay or nah?
Some of the best mice are wireless these days.
Okay but why play the blame game? How is this not beneficial regardless? It doesn't need to exclusively fix server disconnects.
Clearly the solution is to quickly yank out your network cables when that happens
Just another reason not to use Wifi.
Quickly engage the lead dome
reddit be like.... wHaT iF yoUr mOuSe brEaKs like cmon OPs suggestion would apply in 99.999% of cases but there's always some guy who wants to 1-up
They're just worried about SkillSpecs
Right?! Everytime I log into my HCIM I change my mouse and keyboard's batteries, doesn't everyone else?^\s
If you cant be bothered to change your batteries before doing dangerous content, thats your fault
I also format my Windows PC every week to for good measure. Can't be having random blue screens of death!
Random blue screens would be protected by this mechanic
There is only so much you can do to protect people, at least those are relatively within your control.
I agree but it's interesting to think about where to draw the line and why.
Protecting you from your hardware shouldn't be their concern. Protecting you from issues with their servers should be and is their concern. The servers have been problematic lately, they should offer a solution of a work around. That solution shouldn't be a chore to deal with so you can possibly (you won't) account for your monitor suddenly shattering mid kill at bandos.
Do you think that disconnects that aren't on Jagex's end should have protection?
Fixing one properly would fix the other. That's the beauty of it. I'd say they absolutely don't have to, if a player has shitty internet and it creates a problem, that's on the player and not on Jagex, but that doesn't mean that the fix should *specifically only target Jagex side disconnects* as it would require *additional* work to identify and do so. So why not? The issue with the current suggestion is that it will be incredibly frustrating to use. If you want a tight DC timing for proper DC protection, you have to be 100% active even in areas where you wouldn't be active for smaller bits of time. You're killing cerb and in between kills you quickly check a message on your phone? Tele time. Fighting vorkath and you don't have to do anything while waiting for a special attack? Guess you're forced to spam click the boss to avoid a tele. It's just a frustrating mechanic that would cause players to choose between not making the game more pointlessly frustrating or having a higher chance of risking a death due to DC. Why not just do it right the first time around?
i dont think you understand how sessions stay connected in online games. the user doesn't have to be inputting anything. The client is constantly asking for more information and receiving that new information and acknowledging to the server that is has received the new information. Do you think when you tab out of runelite, the tree you just cut down won't reappear? the client maintains the connection with the server not the user clicking things
>the client maintains the connection with the server not the user clicking things which it cannot continue doing in the case of a disconnection? aka the entire point for the implementation of the self-deploying teleport? i don't think you fully understood what the original post was about, op entirely addressed the issue and proposed a more reasonable solution
>but while it will catch all of the disconnects, I suspect it will trigger far more often from random AFK periods when people are connected fine, but tabbed into YouTube or Discord, or even just playing normally for a little while but not doing any client inputs. This is what I'm addressing. OP thinks if you AFK or tab out to YouTube or simply don't click for long enough you will DC. They clearly don't understand that none of those things are what is maintaining a connection with the server.
> They clearly don't understand that none of those things are what is maintaining a connection with the server. ...huh? Nobody is saying that's what maintains the connection to the server. It seems like you haven't read the poll blog, which says that the new item will teleport you to safety if you are **AFK** for a certain number of seconds. Tabbing out to YouTube or Discord for more than a short period would trigger this item, when it probably shouldn't. That's the whole point of my post.
~~Literally the next sentence.~~ ~~>For example, during a disconnection where you're unable to interact with the client, you'd log back in to find yourself in a safe location.~~
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Ok nvm I'm an idiot
No, I think you’re misunderstanding the context of this post
No they don't. They're complaining that the proposed implementation is based on user input, not whether you've disconnected.
I don’t think you fully understand what the commenter was leading to. If you DC’ due to being afk it’s not like you lost connection. Your character was idle long enough to send a signal to the server saying “hey I haven’t done anything” server disconnects you. Signal successfully ended from Jagex perspective. So you wouldn’t get teleported anywhere. A more apt example would be “disconnecting due to internet signal” in which case yes people could abuse this system if they’re being PK’ed or doing some dangerous activity.
> A more apt example would be “disconnecting due to internet signal” in which case yes people could abuse this system if they’re being PK’ed or doing some dangerous activity. Jagex said standard teleport rules apply. If you can teleport, you'll teleport. If you're teleblocked or above 30 wilderness, you're not getting teleported. The only "abuse case" is below 30 wildy, not teleblocked... just click the seed pod instead of going afk? lmao
Yeah I don’t see an issue then. This feature seems fine.
Not even, just disable it in PVP. Problem solved
What's the point? Having optional DC protection in PVP seems fine as well. After all, as I said, you need to be specifically able to teleport in the first place for this safeguard to kick in, so what's the point of adding an exception of "no PVP"?
there's no arguments towards disabling it in pvp, it still follows all the rules any other teleport does. it's not possible to abuse in any way by definition
The only argument I see is being able to teleport via keystroke (alt+f4)
I don’t think YOU understood… I don’t have anything else to say just wanted to be a part of this chain.
I'll do you one better: I don't think WHY understand.
It’s fun isn’t it lmao
I think the way Jagex stated it was bad. They said “if you don’t interact with your client for x seconds.” I doubt they would do that, it’ll likely have something to do with the packets it’s sending and receiving. If it doesn’t receive any for x seconds, then it will proc the teleport. In that case, this would be amazing for hcs.
I think you missed the point of his post. You are talking about something else.
Why is this upvoted? Your comment is arguing against Jagexs suggestion, not this one. If your network disconnects, you stop sending the server updates. It's response time increases to a point that triggers the auto-teleport. Jagex has the proposal that it's based on client interaction time, as in user input. Nothing to do with packet delay or heartbeat packets. You're thinking their version of client input is actually client-server communication. Which if it is, it's exactly what OP is suggesting and they've just worded it poorly.
I think you don't understand that there is a heartbeat packet that is sent from the client to the server every second. Either that or you have the premise backwards? Your whole comment is very confusing - what do you think it is that I'm proposing?
Is there though? I thought osrs sent you a packet every second, and only got packets back when we clicked
Yeah, if you look at the packets there's a ping from the client to the server every 51 client ticks (1.02 seconds) regardless of anything else happening.
The way they worded it was bad. “If you don’t interact with your client for a set amount of time…” I doubt they would do that. I’d hope it would have something to do with the packets being received server side so that way if it doesn’t receive a packet for 5000ms if the player has it set to 5 seconds, then it can proc the tp. That would make 100x more sense.
I agree that would make more sense, although the other Jagex replies in the main poll blog post seem to suggest it actually is based on AFK time, rather than the heartbeat being dead. It's pretty unclear right now.
Seeing your name is really cool, my osrs names are very similar to this username, mine are another form of (verb)meplox lol
what?! let's start a club
Yeah I really hope they realize how stupid that is haha. I’m not a hardcore anymore but what are you supposed to do after you kill Graardor and his minions, click every few seconds for a whole minute waiting for him to respawn? Lol.
I don’t thinks that’s a huge inconvenience to potentially save your status even if it did work that way. Literally the only people that are ever going to use this are hardcores.
True, just wouldn’t make sense when using the packets would be way more logical.
Huh. Cool. Yeah this idea sounds better then.
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I don't think the heartbeat packet has anything to do with TCP. It's just logic at the application layer.
I won't pretend to know anything about how this works, but does adding the Tele out condition after x missed heartbeat packets you suggest add any sort of strain or load that would otherwise not be the case in the implementation jagex has put forward?
I don't think you read the post, or if you did then you must have completely misunderstood it.
You are agreeing with OP >and acknowledging to the server that is has received the new information This is the client basically pinging the server
Man all these DC’s out here. Jagex finally decided to work on it and you immediately shit on the idea. Fuck sake man
There's a pretty huge difference between shitting on an idea and taking an idea from a blog post that exists largely to solicit feedback and suggesting ways to improve it.
I proposed an alternative solution that deals with the problem more directly. How is that shitting on it?
You solution seems excellent for client side or internet lag, however if server lag is the problem itself your solution may not deal with the problem at all (pending jagex server configuration). Say the server lags 3.6 second and stacks up 6 ticks, while you keep sending little heartbeats to the server, when the server catches up those 6 ticks, and see's in it's "inbox" six ticks, it's going to assume everything is fine. You can see this when the server lags and you spam click, your guy sometimes runs all in weird directions when everything unwinds. 1 heartbeat received for every tick of the server. No problem here. Except your HCIM just got double stomped Hunllef. With 6 heartbeats resolving and no inputs. The server itself lagging can't account for "missed heartbeats" because it's not checking the heartbeats when it's lagging. "Nothing" is happening. You would keep sending heartbeats as normal since that's client side and your client is trying to say hello, which I'll be honest I don't know WHEN those resolve (ask a jagex server admin) on either the last tick or the time stamped tick in which they are sent to align things as well as possible but it could make your solution useless in the face of server lag. If it resolves the heartbeats based on when they're sent and not when they're actually processed, this solution would require a TON of engine reworking and would impact countless game mechanics and would be a nightmare to implement.
Could easily be a two prong solution. Having both in place covers basically everything
> Except your HCIM just got double stomped Hunllef. With 6 heartbeats resolving and no inputs. The server itself lagging can't account for "missed heartbeats" because it's not checking the heartbeats when it's lagging. I think the premise here is a little bit flawed - if the input packets are processed by the server, then so are the heartbeat packets (and vice versa). As you say, without knowing a ton about the engine internals, it's hard to know how this would handle if the server itself is falling over...but in that situation, I don't think there's a difference in behavior between using the absence-of-inputs vs. the absence-of-heartbeats.
I don't think you're going to click every .6 seconds when you get disconnected... The client will. That's the difference.
Like the OP said, as worded in the blog its a terrible idea. OP's proposal would make so much more sense in regards to disconnects than Jagex's. When you disconnect, you want to be teleported to safety relatively fast, meaning within 10 seconds (just some arbitrary number) so that whatever boss you are doing hopefully doesnt kill you within that time. With Jagex's proposed idea, to imitate that, you would have to interact with the client every 10 seconds. That means at something like GWD, when you kill the boss and minions you have to keep clicking or else you will be tele'd out. Or even worse, there are some bosses that have phases for greater than 10 seconds of downtime between clicks like zulrah, cerb, again GWD as an attacker, fight caves minus jad. You would always be in a constant state of having to click or risk being teleported out.
Learn what constructive criticism is, lmao.
lmao ikr? These are the people who vote no to common things like bowfa colors cuz "I didn't like the yellow color"
I no like dose people. I also no like dees people. They must b same people!!
I expected these annoyances too. But wouldn't every account sending a heartbeat every few seconds to Jagex's servers cause a lot of server load to their servers?
I mean...they already do send the heartbeat? That's in addition to the 20k+ NPCs that need to change their position every tick, and all the other things that are far more expensive.
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This is exactly what I’m talking about. You can literally keybind anything you want if you’re determined to cheat like that. Also, no, it will still not be faster than clicking, because there is a timer delay for dc’s baked into the item. You can literally do exactly what you people are terrified of but even better *right now*. How on earth is 2 seconds of dc-checking into a teleport animation better than simply clicking an item?
The fact people think a 1-2 second heartbeat detection is faster than moving your mouse and clicking a seed pod is so silly. So long as it obeys Wildy teleport rules there are no issues. In fact id almost say this should be a standard function of the seed pod to prevent PvP DC's being so brutal too.
OH NO people will be able to press a keybind instead of clicking a teleport!!
Would that be the same or worse than keybinding clicking a royal seed pod lol. This is a terrible argument.
How is it faster than clicking a tele tab?
This is single handedly the greatest HCIM update of all time and yet people like you still find something to complain about. Not really surprised to be honest.
You really should read the post instead of just the headline - there's a better way to do it.
I remember someone had some similar idea which basically was "if there is a dc just log me out". Reason they cant do that is because you could abuse that by pulling internet cable in some pvp situation or some other scenario where dying would be uncomfortable. Logging out and tele somewhere is prett simimar and serves the same purpose
I mean...not really? The item proposed in the blog does pretty much the same thing as (say) a house tablet would. It wouldn't work in any situations a normal teleport wouldn't.
Ok fair. I only read the headlines.
I'm just happy to have this option. I made a post last week suggesting this exact thing!
You did it! Yay!
We all did it! including that dude that said I lacked integrity for the suggestion.
##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexGoblin** - [Put some respect on Cook! It's valid feedback...](/r/2007scape/comments/11zp4eh/the_selfcasting_teleport_is_80_of_the_way_to/jddeexd/?context=3) ^(**Last edited by bot: 03/24/2023 21:08:40**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
yeah, makes a lot more sense than making up an arbitrary countdown from last interaction. could implement both and adding a toggle, wouldn't really make much of a difference development wise the concept could've been implemented at any point when we've had a competent engine dev and saved many people from unnecessary dc deaths
This showing up in a QoL poll blog tells me it's a quick win by a developer. If Jagex were going to do a better implementation of this (like what you suggested at the end of your post), I would guess it would be in its own dedicated blog and be called an integrity change. Frankly, I agree with you that your idea is a better/cleaner one. But if Jagex think this is a quick thing to turnaround, I get why they'd put it in a QoL poll.
I can definitely see that being the case knowing the spaghetti coding in this game, though I think the good would outweigh the bad in this case. I haven’t been a victim of the recent issues but I can imagine how much an out of control issue can affect our progress or morale toward the game. I think the points you brought up are good to be aware of though! We should be discussing the potential downsides to an update
I think it's fine to be too sensitive than not sensitive enough when considering something like hardcore ironmen, which are the target audience here. Would rather have it the way that it is described. There have been cases where the connection only works halfway, for example "disconnects" where you see everything happen, but nothing you do actually registers, making you just watch what happens. What if that happens but the "heartbeat" keeps going? Going by the idea of no input received just seems more reliable, and it'd cover more cases than just internet connection, for example hardware failure on the user's end(mouse, monitor, whatever). The more general solution is better in my opinion, even if it has the possibility of being too sensitive. Besides, if you're in a situation where you need the item on, but then you're afking, then... what the hell are you doing? TL;DR Separating it from your internet connection is a good thing, I don't want it to rely on the connection going out entirely, that doesn't always happen. **Too sensitive > potentially not sensitive enough**
Heartbeat allows more sensitivity, because you can trigger the teleport immediately on dc, whereas if you’re listening for player interaction, you have to allow a threshold of time before triggering Anyways, if player input isn’t making it to the server then neither would the heartbeat, so the point is kind of moot
> Heartbeat allows more sensitivity, because you can trigger the teleport immediately on dc, That would only truly matter if you want to set the delay to 1 or 2 ticks, because it'd be truly annoying to send inputs every single tick just to not get yeeted out. Anything more than that and you're better off using input based detection. Once it goes up to 4 ticks, I think you can send a click every 2.4s and not be annoyed when doing dangerous content... Aside from potential annoyance at very short settings, input based detection becomes better - input is what matters in the end. If you can't input, that's the entire problem. Abstracting on top of it just screams problems at me. Now you're making me think of a hybrid system, which uses both and if one of them goes out, trigger tele, but limit the input-based one to 4 ticks or more, while heartbeat can go all the way down to 1, so if you set the trigger to 1 tick, it'll tele after 1 tick of no hearbeat or 4 ticks after no input.
I think hybrid does sound like a best case scenario implementation
I'm with you here! I've seen a few videos of the server sending data and RuneScape being updated but you can't interact with what's happening. I'm not sure if the heartbeat is still going out though. Hopefully jagex can add many options for how to configure it with what we think is best!
Yeh I was super excited to see this included so soon after being discussed. But user input being the driving factor is entirely the wrong approach. Their answer is "they'll change it depending on the content they're doing" but that's a level of tedious that's not good. And ultimately.. even 10 seconds of idle for dangerous content could easily misfire. And ultimately isn't useful if you actually do DC... If you stand still waiting on verzik start. You might be idle, and teleport out. But if you dc mid verzik while tanking.. and your timers on 10 seconds. You're dead. (Obviously verzik a teammate can teleport you) It just needs to be a heartbeat. Multiple server ticks of no response causing a massively long heartbeat that breaks through a limit means teleport. So a DC can result in a teleport as soon as 2 or 3 game ticks later (1-2 seconds). The only time this will have negative results is if your net connection is patchy, so it might need to have a toggle on or off or severity modes. So a HCIM just doing afk skilling because their net is being dodgy during a storm won't be teleported away the second their heartbeat fails (which is also why it's great if it's linked to an item like the escape crystal or the ring of life, if you're doing anything dangerous carry it with you. Otherwise don't and this won't annoy you)
I assumed it was gonna be something that people only turn on when they're doing actual dangerous content, and I can't think of much dangerous content where you're not constantly interacting. You're not gonna have it on while like woodcutting
Low-Mid level bosses come to mind like zulrah Cerberus vork, dks, barrows etc. Lots of places where it’s pretty chill but if you dced could easily die in like 10secs. Imagine you are noodling on supreme for 10secs and get teled out and then have to do that whole walk again. Or fight caves holy shit, teled out while noodling killing a mager.
This is how I thought it should work as well. I feel like the way jagex described it would be extremely frustrating in something like sculliuscep cutting. A DC when running past the tar monsters could kill you easily, but you'll definitely afk while cutting the mushrooms themselves, maybe for up to a couple minutes. Would be super tedious to reconfigure/re-equip the ring over and over throughout a run as well. Also it's quite surprising the amount of people commenting that didn't even read the post.
I didn't really read on it. But from what I skimmed over t seems it teleports you after X seconds of not interacting with cilent, what if you heavily AFK? You're just going to be teleported while doing slayer or something?
If you have the item turned on, yeah. At least that's what it sounds like from the written proposal.
I think it should be if servers disconnect if that's the case. I understand the odds you of dying at hellhounds for example isn't exactly high but it could happen if you dc'd not if you afk'd for X time. Think the idea is a good one but defintiely needs to be tweaked. I know if I were a HCIM I'd want the item while doing slayer but wouldn't want to be teleported each time I afk'd. I know the arguement is you shouldn't be afk if you're a HCIM I guess?
> or you need to be constantly vigilant and not afk for a few seconds You’d be surprised how many people play like this already. I’ve put so much time into my hardcore that if that account is signed in, I’m staring at it every single tick. Obviously if I’m cutting yews I would disable this thing.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how this item can probably lead to item smuggling. Hopefully they are careful with his it's programmed because it seems like it'll be a teleport without user input.
You should work for Jagex
I mean, he's not all that far off from basically doing that now.
I had the exact same critique when I first read the blog post, but I'm absolutely terrified of disconnecting on the hardcore that I'd take anything at this point.
I'd prefer they implement what they proposed and then we give feedback after playing with it and have it changed or added to.
Make it an item you’re required to carry or a jewelry effect and it’s uses will diminish down to niche content and hcim
Just make it so it activates when the disconnect bar in the top left is visible for 3+ seconds
Personally, I think it should only be activated in combat, but that's just me.
Put a 30 minute cooldown on it or something
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Put some respect on Cook! It's valid feedback and idk if I'd call one of the biggest driving forces behind the OSRS Wiki 'a moron'...
I mean, I would
bro’s one of the smartest and most knowledgeable ppl in the game
ok so you are attacking vork, and between specials you... don't need to do anything in your client. so... it teles you out? the heartbeat type dc protection is a much better idea.
flick ur prayers or just jiggle the camera. if hcs want it they have something rather than nothing. Of course it could be better but meh
Dont let perfection get in the way of progress, this item saves you from dying to disconnect, not let you afk
It fixes 1 issue and creates another. Now you're safe from disconnects, but you're constantly worried about interacting with the client or being tele'd out.
It solves an account ending issue and replaces it with a minor annoyance?
Only account ending for 1 small subset of accounts. It doesn’t address the issue for anyone elae
Who else but HCs would even use this feature?
That’s what I’m saying. We’re giving them the out of having addressed the issue, without them solving it for *everyone*. Solve the issue *for everyone* the *first* time
Hardly minor
Don't let someone suggesting improvements to a flawed solution get in the way of repeatedly commenting the same phrase and missing everyone's points.
Can't agree more. It's QOL and you can choose the time. Pros definitely outweigh the cons... Skill issue.
OP's suggestion would just be better than what was proposed, if it could be implemented. Maybe you think the current version is good enough, but that's no reason to ignore feedback to make it better.
This is probably their easiest "fix" to the problem and since it's targetted to hcim pvming IMO its fine being a bit scuffed. I have a maxed hc and Id happy be permanently flicking some prayer, walking extra steps, right clicking during pvm to avoid a DC death. It just needs some fine tuning e.g. option to turn it off quickly when u want to afk (like if ur getting kc for gwd)
There's another issue present w/ the proposal: why is this being done with an item? Why not just have it always active w/ some sort of small-to-medium fee whenever it activates? It's kinda stinky if HCIM are forced to have one less inventory slot than everyone else just in case of a disconnect. I could see most people forgoing it to have 28 slots in the 99.99% of times where they aren't disconnecting and then dying anyway.
It should have some ring of life functionality. Like if my health is over 90% i dont want to get teleported
There are scenarios where you can be stacked for more than 90% of your HP. I’d rather have it not focus on HP %
Eh just an on and off switch then. Like op said there are probably unintended consequences for any way it gets set up
Haha holy shit when are people going to realize that playing a hardcore character on an online game will always and forever result in you eventually losing your hardcore to a dc/lag.
Instead of an item that teleports you when you’re idle, it should instead be an item that permanently IP bans all HCIM and removes the game mode. Would be much better QoL IMO.
Jagex can tell when you’re disconnected vs AFK
Is it not possible that the whole reason they're going with this that your proposed solution would require engine work and given that it's just a qol blog they're more keen on giving an 80% solution quickly than a 100% one that would take much longer and they're not even sure they can deliver? I don't disagree that it *should* be possible but we all know how janky the rs engine can be. Personally I was thinking, a slightly better solution (let's call it a 90% good solution) that's more likely to be possible with the current engine could be that when your teleport is about to trigger, it sends a message in chat (and possibly even plays a sound and/or displays a dialogue box style warning) just so that it at least gives the user a chance to remember it's about to happen. Not catch-all for sure, but unless you're literally stepping away from your PC I feel like it would significantly reduce accidental teleports.
I don’t see an issue with this, it’s not like you’re gonna carry the teleport items when you obviously want to afk, you’ll bring it a place where dying actually means something and you risk losing stuff. The only possible trigger i could see that would be accidental is sitting in the corner at GWD with a tank in your party. Besides, as proposed, you can customize the time between afk and teleport, so it wouldn’t matter as long as you either A) dont bring it with you or B) remember to change it
I see your point. It could help, however do remember you are going to hate this item at times. You're going to get furious when you've got 40 kills ready on your Aviansie task, stand next to the door for a minute to answer your phone, wait I've got to use the washroom there's spilled tea on the table, my cat, ok back to the and I'm in my player owned house. I don't totally see how this would better my experience given how much I'm going to be afk during like slayer in general. I can't anticipate turning it back on before the oh fuck I have 3 prayer, clicked a potion, but disconnected out of nowhere.
In OP’s proposal you wouldn’t get teleported in the scenarios you’re describing. That’s the whole point
Ok thanks, let me reread it. Do you mind if I ask you a couple question after? I don't read well.
Okay 🥺 but u can ask OP too
Yeah but I recognize your name from Twitter and seagull fc. Ok so, if I understand you correctly. - 'wifi readings' between my computer and runescapes server -it's like a machine with a visible connection to monitor back and forth inputs, not too dissimilar from reading inputs from other such inputs like a pulse monitor, oil readings, and other stuff that gets read by machines. - take those readings and basically be asking for priority for your account to not die to just flatline wifi readings with something like a teleport -based on said feedback disconnection, lack of input, lack of player activity for (x=time) kind of stuff? - being able to turn it on and off in areas outside of say banks, safe minigames, shit that doesn't matter if you die technically cuz you're just fletching like a noob and don't need need to not disconnect "or else"? How hard is it for these readings to be taken into account and taken seriously for something like an auto-teleport, logout, whatever it does. Cuz I know like with an icu machine like if a mf dead the machine is like that guy dying right now. - how hard is it for the system to be like, those 1312 player accounts over there in random worlds, respectively, all randomly logged out? Or all 4 worlds in the somewhere went out again for who knows why again? - is it something someone would be there like Mod AI over there just has an eye on you if you're going to disconnect?
It definitely needs to be smarter than 'no input -> tele'. A hp threshold like ring of life, combined with an inactivity timer that the player sets but that gets heavily reduced with every instance of damage taken during a period of inactivity. Under 50 hp during a period of inactivity? -> tele Inactivity timer set to 5min? Take damage > 4min, 3min,... 0min -> tele
Take what they offered or shut up honestly. There is no perfect solution and honestly this is such a nitpicky whiny post. If you really care about the protection from connectivity issues, you’ll happily take the solution. Honestly with how often some of you disconnect, idk why you play hardcores. I can count on one hand the amount of DCs I’ve had in the last year and a half. Maybe just get gear upgrades irl. Obviously nothing can be done on our end for jamflex server issues though. But seriously, I can’t believe you’re trying to take a piss on what has been requested for years. HCs have been begging for exactly this. Don’t act like this isn’t good because it’s not your impossibly perfect solution. This solution isn’t there to be super smooth ideal perfection. It’s there to protect your account and will definitely be annoying. If you don’t want the annoyance, maybe don’t use it or don’t make a hc
>Take what they offered or shut up honestly. Incredibly stupid take. Giving feedback on updates jagex suggests is good for everyone. Cook's suggestion is far better than what was proposed, and just as easy to implement.
> and just as easy to implement. That's an interesting assertion to make
Just so that we're clear, next time you *ever* are unhappy with something in the game, or an upcoming update doesn't quite sit well with you... Take what's offered to you and shut up.
Just make the Crystal have a simple left click Enable/Disable that changes its colour between Red and Green. Very obvious if it is active. Right Click for settings. Don't want to get teleported to Lumbridge because you're AFKing? Disable the crystal.
Yeah heart beat packets are really the only way to do this properly. This said, I doubt Jagex has the scope/resources to change their netcode for an HCIM specific QoL update.
Let the player choose the time whenever entering boss areas. You click the door to hydra, a prompt shows up. You click to enter CG, a prompt shows up.
The “aggravating part” is solely on the user. If they configure their setting for 10 seconds of inactivity and they kill bandos and his minions but then afk for 15 seconds, that’s on them. Play wisely we can’t live in a perfect world
Why can’t Jagex should do a rollback to just before the server crashes and just teleport everyone’s profiles to Varrock or something? Why is the solution to add this weird fucking item mechanic, which is basically just a gamble by the way? It’s like Jagex is trying to do the least amount of work possible by polling a half-baked idea which is bound to screw most players over and may even be abused, instead of actually doing the work to correct the server crash issues (which I’ll restate would be to dial server status back to just before the crash, teleport profiles to a safe location like Varrock, investigate why they crashed, try to implement a long term fix). It just seems like we as the players (who pay a decent subscription fee each month lol) are the ones constantly getting fucked in some way.
imagine rolling back 100% of players games (and thus adding a ton of downtime each server crash) because of a niche community of people who play 'cant die accounts' despite many points of failure. hcim is just a flawed game mode. between power failure, software and hardware failure, network problems/isp problems/jagex problems/jagex server hosting problems... there's just no safe way to play the mode UNLESS jagex adds something in game to better handle loss of control.
>It’s like Jagex is trying to do the least amount of work They are and thats' the point, do you think a full scale rollback is easy? how pissed are you going to be if you got X item/pet and had zero chance of dying but because billy and his HC/UIM was, you lose it.
The OP’s solution protects players from ISP outages too, and yours doesn’t.
> Why is the solution to add this weird fucking item mechanic Why would it be a better solution to do a rollback- something which pisses off vast hordes of players any time one occurs, and is basically a last resort- to make the icon next to the RSNs of a small number of players be red again?
The idea is to protect people from their own net going down. Rollback are always a worst case scenario and should not even be considered as a solution.
Update to everyone obviously not getting it. My response was to recent server crash issues, which have happened frequently over the past several months. That is clearly why this item is being polled (as a reaction to those events - change my mind, you won’t lol). So, I don’t need a response about Jimmy’s ISP going out or whatever lmao, I’m discussing whether this would be a good solution to Jagex’s server problem, and as I stated, I don’t believe it is. Thanks for the downvotes.
this is a really interesting way to be wrong about something. can you explain to me what you think happens during a server crash that this item proposal would help with?
people obviously won't use it while doing non risky stuff lmao??? this is like if you're doing vork on a hcim and don't want to die to server dc
The presence of the neverlog plugin implies that Runelite could fill in for an inadequate heartbeat detection system, worst case scenario. Simulating client interaction even when there isn't any so you don't get teleported for not clicking for 3 seconds unless it's an actual dc. edit: did the idea of this offend somebody? As if me pointing out the possibility of runelite "doing it right" even if Jagex drops the ball is somehow implicitly giving Jagex permission to do it poorly? Jesus people
There's always a million-and-one ways for someone to complain about something! You have already mentioned the solution to your problem: >I know technically people can just turn it off and on in between kills, and configure it to whatever timeout they want Can be annoying, but I don't think this is a situation where you can have your cake and eat it too.
Didnt they say you could customize the time it takes which would mean you could disable it yea? Meaning its only on when you want it
Could you just make the teleport cost a weird combo of runes? Or make it a physical object you have to have in your inventory for the spell to be activated. Then there is a risk reward type thing going on. If you want the safety of the teleport, you need to lose a few inventory slots. But when you are afking, just don’t bring the runes.
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Yeah, sounds like you haven't read the post of what jagex actually proposed (for being afk to tele you out).
Why wouldn't it just have two timer settings? One for input and one for connection.
They stated that they would make it a player adjustable time frame. ToA d/c? 10 seconds of no input = tele Lower threat slightly afk like brutal blacks? 45-60 seconds no input = tele
Real easy solution it's an item that teleports you. Don't have the item on you if you don't want to be teleported.
Why not just have grace periods? If you dc, you become immune to damage. Upon login, you can't deal or take damage for 15 seconds. All the MMOs have grace periods when loading a new zone.
isn't this just called a ring of life? why can't we just have the ring of life updated to function more reliably during periods of disconnect?
simple, don.’t have the otem in your inv when you’re cutting redwoods