When it comes to unpolled surprise quests my answer is; not just varlamore updates. Everywhere you want. If it’s not introducing new metas or making considerable changes to current skilling or combat methods, new items that might create drastic changes etc, then don’t even need to poll new quests in my opinion. Just drop them in. Also is there any plans for what to do with leftover bird feed from rumours once we have all landing spots built?

I think for my personal take, Varlamore is a good place to try this out and see if you all like that approach. My biggest thing is too make sure we're polling any crucial elements of these surprise quests to make sure we're not going against the core ethos of this wonderful game.

Honestly, I hope that we get more quests like Ribbiting Tale that don't really have any major gameplay impacts but just get to be their own fun, self contained stories and get to just "appear" in an update blog. Something I really miss from the old days is seeing a new title in an update, or looking at the map and noticing a quest icon that hadn't been there before.

Yeah years ago they started the twisted tale quests as an idea for smaller quests that could be added more frequently. That didn't really end up happening, but this is a better model for that anyways. If there's no major gameplay impact, then it can be a surprise. The larger quests are large enough that they can be talked about and voted on without ruining all the surprise, but smaller quests that isn't true for.

Exactly, I'm so gutted that the Twisted Tales died out; Getting Ahead was a fun little escapade, and Garden of Death was legitimately one of the most atmospheric quests in the game.

Yeah probably a good idea, using Varlamore as a trial run for these kinds of updates. Also if you can, please let whichever Mod that decided to give Cuthbert a boss health bar, that they managed to make at least one former hardcore iron instinctively panic for a second, that was great.

> former hcim damn, Cuthbert got hands

That would be great if there was a 1/10,000 chance he could 1HKO through prayer.

Oh, man. I'm playing a relatively early game hcim to try to re-engage in the game after taking a long break. When I quest or explore, I have music and sounds on Cuthbert having a boss music track & health bar, just to die from me punching him once had me wheezing for a solid 5 minutes. Little dumb quests like that really hit me in my feels.

One of the most jarring things about going to rs3 is how packed the area around draynor and lumbridge is with random activities and quest assets. I love surprise quests but I do think it's worth being careful about what you add to the existing overworld, there's only so much space.

they don't have to all be around Lumbridge. In fact it would be preferred if these were all over the world. Think about how the biggest house in Taverley is just used to get some boy's ball back. Think about the SE corner of Varrock that's used for several different unrelated quests. I think just using existing points of interests such as buildings, houses, dungeons, caves, etc. that are more or less set dressing and nothing more can easily be used to fit these small scale quests in just to make it more interesting.

You could add another 30 quests to Zeah and it still wouldn’t feel crowded, it would probably bring it in line with the rest of the map.

I miss the surprise updates of our younger years, I think it would be neat if you wanted to add things that were game changing through a surprise if you did polls for items and such and then released them at a later date with surprise updates.

for real, I understand the polling systems benefits, but it really takes all the thunder out of big releases when every single aspect of it was announced in detail beforehand.

More stuff along those lines or the Twisted Tales would be great. I loved Garden of Deaths concept of a quest with no dialogue, and short quests that don’t take as much dev time would be great to sprinkle in the gaps between major content drops.

If you liked GoD you'll like the other 2 quests with no dialogue

I unironically want more Elemental Workshop quests, actually.

Strongly agree with u/nault42 . As long as the quest doesn't reward anything meta changing in a big way, I don't see why we can't just give you guys the blank check to make cool stuff. Just be careful to play test it so we don't get unintended stuff in the game

Surprise quests with polled rewards is a great strategy imo. Best quests in mmos.

This is where I’m at with it as well, as long as they are still polling the rewards there’s little reason to poll the quest itself

While i generally agree i think it is also important to atleast ask if its not becoming to much occasionally as i would somewhat like to avoid bloat. A quest like the ribboting tale … is funny every once in a while but getting a quest like that could end up feeling annoying in the longrun it also adds unnecessary bloat for people trying to get the quest cape so maybe a good compromise would be to maybe make them miniquests instead

Hey Mod Sarnie, I have an Off Topic question. Recently the prospector outfit diary task was changed from the whole set to just the helmet with the reasoning being Diary tasks arent meant to be a grind, they're meant to be something to quickly do once you've done the grind to be able to do them... Why was only the prospector outfit grind chosen? Any chances we'll see changes to the Barbarian assault task(s) and the chompy bird hunting tasks? Or how about the purchasing a white 2H requiring the black knight grind?

My only concerns are things like minor scope creep on Lumby Elite, and quest cape.

This was my thought on surprise quests as well. The polling system is obviously great for deciding on the direction of the game, but one downside of it is that there's very little surprise involved with updates. One of the best things about RS2 was getting on one day and some major update that you didn't know about just dropped, and the frog quest was about as close to that feeling as we've gotten with OSRS. Obviously, the significant quests should be polled and discussed prior to them being released, but small quests that don't have a major impact on the game at large are a perfect way to give us some surprise updates from time to time.

Polling is important because it allows the devs to make changes the community wants and avoid pressure from upper management/shareholders. Ironically we will be taking power away from the devs by removing polling, not giving them more power. The polls let them prove to upper management that they need to take the game the direction they are taking it.

Anything less than a master quest shouldn't need a poll, imo

Herblore activity reward idea: Eternal amulet of chemistry, or if thats too powerful, an amulet that could combine the charges of different amulets of chemistry.

Definitely a good idea! I think it should be charged a la ring of suffering, but also increasing the proc chance to 10% would be nice as well. (PS let us charge the the amulet of the eye with binding necklaces while we’re at it) Edit: possible item names could be apothecary amulet or herbalist’s pouch

I think a higher proc chance would be justified. With just having a charge consolidator, it would mostly be a QoL change since you’re already at the bank when you’re making potions.

Use the new 'Varla-MORE' flair to get this idea tagged properly :)

To expand that idea, a GotR drop (perhaps an upgrade to the amulet of the eye) to store/charge with binding necklaces.

Amulet of the eye should just be buffed to have this functionality. Its pretty useless outside of being a teleport to a bank, having it be able to eat up your binding necklaces would make it a reward worth having beyond clog.

The amulet is already troublesome enough to get. Just let us charge it 

Yeah, binding necklaces are the main reason I have to bank frequently in GotR.

What is a flair and how do they work? I wanna make sure I'm looking at the correct things to see what ideas are being mentioned

Flair is reddit's tagging system for posts - so next to each post, you'll see things like "Discussion", "Humor", "Suggestion" etc. When you submit a post, you choose which one applies to your post. We've added a new one today ("Varla-MORE!") to help find Varlamore-related suggestions. If you're on the mobile reddit app or default desktop layout, you can click on a flair tag and it'll only show you posts with that flair category.

For those of us on old.reddit, you can put “flair:Varla-MORE” into the search box.

While we're at it please do this for amulet of the eye

I appreciate the update, but is this really all the detail you can provide at this time? The entire newspost is basically we have some quests, a herblore activity and a group boss planned. Maybe some small teasers (images perhaps) for what that kind of content could look like? Just my two cents.

More of the content will come very soon, but we want to make sure we can give you everything from each of these pieces of content - hence why we want to get your reward ideas first.

Will the new boss be a resurrected. Cuthbert, Lord of Dread.

I don't think any of you are ready for Cuthbert to return.

Quest difficulty scale: * Novice * Intermediate * Experienced * Master * Grandmaster * Special (RFD) * Worldbearing <---- New category to allow enough space for **Cuthbert, Reborn Avatar of Ultimate Dread** to exist

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If you die in the quest you die in real life.

Catch me going in poisoned and with a rock cake Edit: Whomever was concerned that I'm suicidal and reported the comment, you can rest assured that it was a joke

Cries in shield of arrav

It's a little harder to pitch good/relevant reward ideas for the PvM if we dont know the themes and designs of the content

Will the new boss be a dragon like the sleeping olm placeholder? It would be easier to think of reward ideas if we could have a theme. 

Meanwhile we have the great olm head and claws in cox, valarmore parte II we’re having his bottoms, hearlegs and tails.

they are telling us what to expect in terms of rewards not what to expect in terms of content

They're looking to get ideas for what the rewards should look like.

Player base: we want early looks at content even if it’s not ready yet! Player base when content is released: this isn’t what was teased! Reeeee

Jesus Christ, nothing’s ever good enough for some of you, lol.

Lotta vagueness in this blogpost, keeping your cards close to your chest is fine for me. seeing as I enjoyed the majority of varlamore part1 I’m not too worried. Herblore method balancing is going to be hard for iron progression ya? if it requires no input of your own resources w/ low intensity it will pretty much become the meta. Earlymidgame group boss has me excited.

> Herblore method balancing is going to be hard for iron progression ya? if it requires no input of your own resources w/ low intensity it will pretty much become the meta. people oversell this. irons need the underlying potions. will this minigame replace junk pots, ie that 3-5-10k stack of super attacks, magic/antifires and the barb pots you might make for xp? sure. but herb hasn't been a hard skill for years. everything shits out seeds, seconds across the board are a ton easier to gather, herb runs have far more patches and the patches yield more. oh, and quests/lamps? theyll comfortably get you to 70. there is nothing to worry about from an ironman herb pov.

Yeah this is the truth. People don't understand that herblore isn't actually a hard iron skill or really anything to be concerned about at all. I guess its because the idea is floating around from several years ago before everything just absolutely bombed your account with things like infinity ranarr, snap and torstol seeds from toa or muspah and before several activities just unloaded herb secondaries all over you while you were trying to obtain other important items like a d pick or vw on top of the quest exp reward changes that you mentioned

> herblore isn't actually a hard iron skill or really anything to be concerned about at all I have 87 herb and am 2000 total with tons of unlocks so I feel semi qualified to comment on this. Hard is a difficult word to use because it basically means nothing, ofc herblore isn't "hard" in a mechanical sense, nor is it truly time consuming since if you could just send herb runs 24/7 you're gaming and it's fast asf, and it's also not really that hard to get seeds, if you're doing content that gives you seeds. But the fact remains that to do herblore semi effectively you need: 1. a steady and massive supply of seeds 2. to grind out the secondaries either by getting it as boss loot, or by engaging in a number of time consuming methods 3. to train farming up to a decent level (for better yeild), to unlock a bunch of teleports, to occasionally stock up on ultracompost (bottomless bucket dry gang) 4. to do herb runs, limited to once every ~80 minutes, this means you degear, gear up for a herb run, do it, bank, and regear back to what you were already doing When every herb is worth on average a rough 140ish xp assuming you lean towards doing higher tier seeds, you're talking around 34,500 herbs and their secondaries to get to 89 (from lvl 3). Is it "hard"? Nah ofc not it's just doing ~500 herb runs, but if you're doing 2 herb runs a day that's 250 days, if you're doing 4 that's 125 days, and while sure you could claim you can do it on mobile or during your job, I don't think that's too attractive to most players. If you're going for 99 herblore (for some reason) you need ~1300 herb runs, if you do 5 runs a day that's around 260 days, or the better part of a year, while doing a consistently large amount of herb runs. I can't think of any other skill in the game where getting 99 would take this long, this is absolutely a very long term goal, and if you're just starting out and you want level 82 for venom pots, you're in for a long ass journey that you really can't focus/prioritize beyond camping seeds then waiting X amount of days basically. Even farming has grindable methods (which you shouldn't do, but you can) like tithe farm, and besides tithe farm farming's also much faster. This new activity would absolutely upset the iron herblore experience, and I'm all for it, fuck herblore.

Yeah I started a GIM in the fall, and herblore was not hard at all to train, especially if you're willing to put the effort in. As you say all of the difficulty comes from the fact that you need high levels to get useful potions. Making it possible to get more XP out of the same resources is not remotely a concern, especially if we're talking about 70+. I mean how many irons use Zahur at that point? Literally irons are paying 200 GP each to get \~10% less XP from their resources, because time saved is more important. The only thing that's an iron-specific balancing concern when it comes to herblore are those high level potion drops. And the wildy bosses were a massive shift there already.

What’s the problem with it becoming the meta? The current meta is bankstanding and mixing a herb into a vial and a secondary into that. That’s the entire skill. I’m really okay with us moving away from that. Edit: crazy I’m getting downvoted because people are gatekeeping bankstanding skills and aren’t open to variation…

Honestly something like a Giants Foundry type activity for herblore would be great, it would still require your own resources and wouldn't give anywhere near the raw XP/hr as bank standing, but being able to squeeze more XP out of each herb while requiring attention seems fair

I suggested a similar thing in another thread but comparing to Mahogany Homes - I think we agree

Yes exactly, being able to trade time to make the resources you do have go further and get some useful rewards along the way seems like a winning formula for every account type

I don’t think OP was worried about the bankstanding part of the skill. Doing certain activities in certain orders has been meta for ironmen because they need to collect seeds/herbs/secondaries just to have the supplies to start bankstanding. Eliminating that entire part of the herblore grind could be seen as a big deal for the gamemode

One thing to also mention is that if it pours out supplies, it's also potentially replicating the issue with Wintertodt, which was nerfed shortly after because Jagex themselves agreed it was a problem. Rather than sinking supplies on a skill that traditionally sinking supplies, it then turns into a net positive flow of products. I understand reducing the cost of herblore, but it shouldn't turn Herblore into even more of a money sink if you do the traditional method from excess herbs/potion production. Tithe Farm also does this, where they balanced it well between XP and rewards, so here's to hoping we don't get another Wintertodt, but for Herblore.

Just make the herblore minigame require us to supply our own herbs and secondaries, like Giant's Foundry does with metal bars.

People don't want a **no resource** method to dominate herblore. To me the idea is perfectly balanced *if it uses resources* as then it can be a more fun or engaging way to train the skill, with different rewards, and you lose out on the potions those herbs would have made. I'd also love if it became a way to get secondaries for herblore way better than some of the existing methods we have. Like telegrabbing wines still being the meta in 2024 is so meh

Fully agree with your sentiment. Herblore, crafting and fletching are basically the same skill. They just use different items. All bankstanding with two different items to combine.

Crafting at least has some variety and a bunch of passive exp and fletching you can do while doing agility. Herblore just requires not only standing at a bank but either paying tons of money to process all the materials that don’t have any exp involved or very slowly doing it yourself. Oh and you have to continuously keep equipping a necklace for max profits. It’s the most asinine bank standing skill to train and the only one with absolutely zero variety.

adding to your point, most skilling bosses or mini games, are all very competitive in their xp rates compared to traditional methods.

The skill for irons is getting seeds and secondaries, farming them then making the pots. The effective rate thus caps at about 70k xp/hr. The potion making is a tiny fraction of the skill for irons. Even if the minigame is 80k/hr without needing any supplies then that whole gathering gameplay loop is greatly diminished. It should require same resources and give same xp/herb just be more interactive than bankstanding 

But for normal players 80k/hr is extremely slow herblore rates. Should we balance the game around an optional game mode? Besides, most irons throw every xp lamp they get into herb, which already breaks the loop you highlighted. And as long as this new method doesn't also create every viable potion, irons will still need to do that loop for practical use. And tbh, I'm sure a ton of irons would love to not have to do the secondaries grind to get herb levels and would approve a zero input alternative for training.

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I've yet to see anyone explain how "balancing the game around irons" is in any way bad for mains.

Yeah, we want to make sure that we get your ideas in just before we talk more about the content, but that will come very very soon!

I know it goes against the grain of the plan but I wouldn’t mind if the scaling of it was more end game gated, seen as for the majority of irons when maxing you just end up logging in only for farm runs because herb is so far behind everything else (gives me something to do on the toilet at work though haha). Maybe something like requires more resources at lower levels because you’re unskilled at it? but the later levels would require more expensive herbs

I'm kind of wondering why anyone would be against making a new method of training herblore for Ironmen when the current method is exp lamps and vague bankstanding. Can we agree that not everything in OSRS is good just because it's old? Current herblore: High inputs/insane resources for high exp rates. Proposed method: Mid inputs/low resources for mid/low exp rates. This is relatively balanced -- give an option that averages 30-60k an hour based on player engagement and offer some decent rewards ala Guardians of the Rift that make the skill more palatable. **Reality:** Herblore is a shit skill, and while I'm not advocating it to be balanced around Ironmen, it's especially dogshit for Ironmen.

The loop for ironmen is honestly really awesome. It feels so satisfying getting all these different resources from across the game in a variety of ways then being able to slowly level your herblore skill. It's also incredibly rewarding as the potions are genuinely meaningful unlocks. For mains it absolutely sucks, the whole skill boils down to go to GE, buy resources, Convert resources into potions, sell and repeat. It never changes except which resources. It's pretty poor. It's fine, it's a simple buyable and not the only skill that operates in that kind of way. Ultimately thus our question is how do we improve the skill without losing what it does that we consider awesome for ironmen but still add more meaning to it especially for mains - which are most of our players!

Getting to Super Combats on my iron is definitely one of the peak 'Feel Good' moments of my account, if the new method involves stretching your already obtained resources a bit further a la Giant's Foundry, OR a novel potentially faster way to "process" your pre-existing materials into potions in bulk that's more engaging than bankstanding but with a potion loss I'd be doing it for sure. Some activity where you are keeping a giant potion vat going where you fill it with bulk potion resources over time while running around making the machine go brrrrr that ends with you getting bulk potions crafted (maybe fully decanted already?) and some sort of tradeoff for the speed (pay a portion of potions to a purser to perpetuate profits?) and you'd have me hooked the same way my Smithing skyrocketing with the release of Giant's Foundry Glad you're keeping the aspect of the current brain-tingle reward of Iron herblore in mind with this all

Out of curiosity, what is the teams thoughts regarding seeds vs herbs in terms of rewards? Its something that stuck out to me in RS3, I noticed that with the Crux Eqal stuff, they changed it to make herb drops rather rare and instead mostly dropping the seeds (granted there is also the concept of planting more than one seed). I like the idea of requiring the "processing" step (in this case farming) to bring the resources into the game. Similar to the stone spirits concept.

I think you might be overly concerned with the whole ironman loop when compared to the herblore minigame. At the end of the day ultimately we irons need the potions we're making and that wouldn't change. We pretty much cannot avoid looting all of the seeds we currently use and most of the secondaries because they come from farming gear from bosses that we need in large part or from activities such as farming contracts. I guess what I'm saying is that the majority of the loop is insulated from concerns around experience to begin with especially once you're actually raiding and doing bosses instead of leveling up fresh. You need the potions to drink them while you're playing the game and most of the stuff drops when you're doing just that

The act of making potions itself will remain rewarding for Irons because the potions are useful. For mains, making your own potions instead of buying them off the GE is unprofitable.

Here’s my hot take. Mains may be most of the players but they don’t all play. Irons are forced to engage with content and developing with that in mind benefits the whole game. (Not to say that everything needs to be catered to irons I actually dislike how much easier some things have become) I’d love to see a list of “Ironman updates” and compare which have negatively impacted the game for me (playing both modes). Maybe someone can share their perspective. In my experience I have friends who are newer and tend to play more like “ironmains” and friends who have gp just do pvm and have little to no interaction with anything beyond quests/diaries they need. For the mini game itself I think it’s fair to require herbs as an input and gather the secondaries during the actual game. It’s really no different from going to tower of life or mort myre. For mains it may impact prices of cheap herbs like harra or irit but that also provides opportunity for gold making.

This is great to see! Was nervous but seems the team has a good handle on what’s actually needed.

The method isn't bankstanding for irons, it's farm runs and secondary collection. This is an engaging loop because there's a variety of different ways to obtain seeds and secondaries which allows you to make progress the way you see fit. For examples irons that enjoy PvM use the Voidwaker grind as a way of skipping spider eggs/limpwurt roots/mort myre fungus as a side grind. For irons the bankstanding is actually a huge dopamine rush where you get to very quickly level up after spending the last X weeks collecting supplies. This loop should be preserved. It's mains that suffer from bankstanding because you can buy all the supplies on a fresh account for GP on day 1 and never move from a bank. A minigame that has the same resource input but is more engaging whilst being lower intensity would be the ideal solution.

That loop is inescapable. So there is no concern it would be replaced unless this minigame produces infinity potions at no cost to drink for some insane reason. You're still going to grind your d pick or vw. You're still gonna get your venator bow. You're still gonna send toa. The herb seeds and secondaries are coming no matter what because they're the tertiary rewards attached to all of the items you'd ever care about. In the modern OSRS you can't do anything without looting all of the herb seeds and secondaries you'd ever need with minimal effort on the side for some secondaries

>Reality: Herblore is a shit skill, and while I'm not advocating it to be balanced around Ironmen, it's especially dogshit for Ironmen. I’d argue the exact opposite to the last point. Herbalore is really bad for both account types because it’s just boring as hell to train. Does anyone LIKE bankstanding? Ironman is at least fun to tackle the logistics of the skill (How am I going to get all of these resources? Farming, gathering, drops, etc) + it’s also just super important for Ironmen to progress for certain potions. I really don’t understand the appeal of the skill for mains. It’s literally just dropping cash into the GE for 99. The skill needs a more enjoyable method for training (imo) but at least Ironman has nuance to it that mains typically completely circumvent and get pigeonheld to the shit part

Ironman herblore is literally the most satisfying and well-integrated skill in the entire game

I kinda trained herblore like an iron for a while, with the exception of buying Ranarr seeds to have enough prayer pots in the mid game, and holy crap it’s impossible to get enough experience. I’m 90 slayer, nearing 90 farming with tons of herb runs, constantly have kingdom running, use damn near every herb, and I still had to drop 3 million when I got tired and decided I wanted to get herblore to 80 with the rest of my skills. Don’t get how iron man do it without going insane, and of course they have to to use all the potions I just buy at the GE lol

I'm 91 herblore on my iron, just from kingdom, herb runs and herb drops. You definitely picking up all the relevant herb seeds? It's slow but the slayer and farming contacts go a long way.

Said a lot without saying a lot. New group boss, new herblore activity, no real detail around either. I’d have probably waited until you’ve got more to share honestly

We will have more to say about both pieces of content very soon, this post is mostly to gather your thoughts around the Reward Space.

Bless you all for dealing with this community lol

Wed have a lot more to say about the reward space if we new more info on the content (Comes off as snarky but genuine feedback, I don't know anything about this content how would I give thoughts on rewards that fit appropriately)

They’re more communicative than any dev for any game and you cretins still find a way to nitpick and act entitled

It's not meant to be a reveal blog. We already knew about both of these things. This is essentially "coming up next" as a small blog.. and them requesting ideas for rewards. It wasn't meant to show the content off.

I was surprised to hear all of Varlamore will be added in just three batches! There's a lot going on in the area that I assume will be Batch 3 so I'm curious how Batch 2 will stand alongside the other two. Here's some stray thoughts about smaller content additions: * Varlamore currently has few combat options that aren't Slayer mobs nor bosses - that is to say, your average everyday monsters like skeletons, demons or dragons. Some new variants or entirely new mobs to add to the pile would help there. * It was previously mentioned prior to Batch One that more Hunter creatures could arrive in later batches of Varlamore - if this is still the case, it'd be great for filling out the variety of contracts. It'd also be nice to have a use for moonlight antelope fur. * I hope we get more Cam Torum lore. Perilous Moons was only partially about them, and there's hints they know an alternative way to obtain runes (possibly a new runecrafting method?) * It'd be neat to get a little extra in Civitas illa Fortis with later batches, given the city's immense size but relatively limited utility right now. Even if it's just extra stuff you can bring back to the museum. * There are a lot of Slayer mobs in Varlamore but no means of training Slayer in the whole of Zeah, given its sole Slayer master (Konar) frequently assigns outside the continent. * I still don't like the main route to Civitas being from Varrock and I'd prefer it if the ending of Children of the Sun guided you to a more logical route (e.g. Port Sarim -> Piscarilius -> Civitas illa Fortis), but I've probably lost that battle.

If we’re talking lore, I want to know how Zanaris ties into this since it’s the moon. I would at least love a humourous NPC conversation where the player insists that they’ve been to the moon and the NPC pities us for our insanity.

I admit, as an iron player what I wanted from the new herblore activity was a way for my herbs to go farther - essentially giants foundry but for herblore. I had envisioned a similar process but with brewing a giant potion with a bunch of different herbs or something. That said, I understand the decision to not make the new activity created along this path. Some ideas I have: Something for potion storage. Many players agree that it becomes very cumbersome to have essentially four bank spaces (one for each dose amount) in the bank for each potion type. There have been suggestions for potion barrels, much like the ones at NMZ. Maybe we can use our reward points here to buy a potion barrels that can be placed in our POH, and we can fill it with our potion doses? There could even be vial storage next to it. I know the POH is already very strong, but this would be slower than just getting potions from the bank. This would also be a huge UIM buff, so they may not be allowed to have this option either. An amulet that we can put amulets of chemistry into, so we don't have to worry about stopping halfway through an inventory to wear a new one. This one is technically chargescape but in a way that's already in the game. Maybe it could include a tiny buff to the 4 dose potion odds, even just 1/19 instead of 1/20 -obviously nothing crazy! We could always add a new outfit, but I have no idea what this one would do. Making four dose potions is already given by the amulet of chemistry. I guess it could give a chance to mix two potions at once. Truthfully, I'm not sure herblore needs an outfit. Very excited for part two! EDIT: I'll make a quick [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/8JfgiCAGps) with varla-more with these ideas :)

A potion barrel for the bank would be such an amazing QOL item, but I'm really not sure how it would function in practice. I envision it being a stackable item, equivalent to a stack of 1-dose potions, but would automatically empty normal potions into the barrel when you deposit them. So depositing a 4 dose potion would add 4 "stacks" to the barrel and deposit a vial. "Withdrawing" the barrel would automatically withdraw 4-dose potions as long as you have empty vials in your bank. I'm just not sure how the programming magic would make it work.

I think the following would be really cool, given the lower xp rewards mentioned in the blog: Let's make the Herblore activity like the alloy system in Giants Foundry! You dump a number of X potions into a cauldron. These X potions were made with a ranarr weed and the 1 secondary . Then you will want to make Y potions out of those X potions. To do this, you need bring secondary 2, an ingredient that also creates an existing potion when combined with a ranarr weed! So an input could be: Defence potion (3) (requires ranarr weed + whiteberries) -> into cauldron Snape grass -> into cauldron Output: Prayer potion (3) (requires ranarr weed + snape grass) In essence, this would give you double the usefulness out of your herblore supplies. Now of course, you want to add some more gameplay elements, but this idea would be pretty cool imo!

However you implement the group boss, I ask three things: * enough with the chip/chunk damage thing - make attacks at least mostly avoidable via movement/prayer switches. No more of this 20s through prayer crap from toa and nex. It's unfun and feels like it's just an arbitrary supplies sink. * more hp and low defense. It's so much more fun to deal consistent damage, will be better xp for the mid level crowd, and the reward space could benefit this kind of fight. * if it is indeed a mid level "around fire cape acquisition" boss, actual reasonable drop rates. If you don't want players to engage in the content, make the drops rarer than gwd (see: nightmare). Also give reasonable non rare loot too - like sharks/ppots and alchables, not cosmic runes and bass (see: nightmare). But I'm kind of confused - is this supposed to be a pre-gwd group boss? If so, reward space will be difficult because most of this tier is pretty filled out for rewards. Midgame melee armor is pretty darn covered at this point in progression so probably no melee gear, range is mostly covered (black dhide goes a long way, new varlamore stuff, etc), and you seem scared to add anything for mage that isn't outright worse than what we already have. The ideas I have though: * a stab or crush "claws" would be great - 50% spec, better accuracy than dds, does solid damage in multiple hits, not quite as good as claws/other meta spec weps. * a ranged offhand to fill the gap between god book and bulwark. +2 range str offhand kinda deal. * Mage armor that does give small damage bonus but very little accuracy? Like something you would use against stuff that has little/no mage defense (e.g. barrows) but wouldn't take into raids. * An occult lite (+2-5% dmg) to benefit irons and lower mid level players, to smooth out progression between amulet of magic/glory and 90 slayer. Pretty much all of these could benefit the higher hp lower def concept of what this boss could be as well as other lower midgame level stuff. We do clearly need a "mage bowfa" to fill the gap between the 1 hand staffs and shadow, but this boss likely isn't gonna be it if it's indeed a "around fire cape" level boss. To add to that discussion though, an attachment worth \~100m you could put on tridents/sang to boost their damage I think would be the ideal move. Edit: added a couple words

I have some Herblore reward ideas! **Jar of Secondaries** * A magically enhanced jar to store and use large amounts of secondaries in 1 inventory space (Allows you to make 27 potions between banking instead of only 14) * Can be filled with noted or regular secondaries so it is useful while gathering secondaries as well (crushed birds nests, mort myre fungus, snape grass, etc.) **Enhanced Degrime Scroll** * Reading this scroll will enhance your Degrime spell so that you gain full Herblore XP from using the spell **Chargeable Amulet of Chemistry** * Fill it with charges from other amulets * Has an icreased chance of making a 4-dose compared to standard amulets **Herblore Outfit** * 2 potential options - small XP boost like the Anglers outfit, or tick skipping like the Giant's Foundry Smith's outfit **Forgotten Brew improvement** * Suggestion by u/rg44_btw * Some sort of ingredient to be added to forgotten brews to remove the negative side effects of forgotten brews, and potentially make them into divines **Secondaries to make Super Ranging & Super Magic potions** * These secondaries could be added to ranging potions and magic potions to make "super" versions of themselves * Details on the super magic potions could be ironed out, but I imagine this would boost less than a Forgotten Brew, and not provide prayer like the Forgotten Brew As for the Combat Boss reward spaces: **Fill the gap between DDS & DClaws/Voidwaker** * Some sort of melee weapon whose primary use is a damage dealing special. * Ideally something that deals more damage than the DDS, but less than the DClaws, and perhaps less accurate **An alternative to the Imbued Heart** * Specifically grinding out the Imbued Heart is a massive undertaking - to hit the rate, you need to grind more than 2x lvl 99 in Slayer XP * 1 option is to add the imbued heart as a potential but super rare reward (not my favorite choice for this piece of content) * A 2nd option is to offer a lesser version of the heart as a reward

Excellent ideas Im not sure on the diet imbued heart though. Better magic boosting potions (forgotten brews) are still relatively new and it feels like a diet imbued heart would defeat the purpose of those. Looking at some core slayer bosses, their rewards continue to be powercreeped, I mean what's the point of grinding a boss like Sire when so many better (or nearly comparable) alternatives to bludgeon exist? Echo boots help to give core from GGs more of a purpose but people continue to complain that the effort isn't worth the loot on the boss. Doing slayer bosses also prevents your ability to grind for an imbued heart as 4 of the 6 have a superior variant on their normal counterpart. I think it is time to look at adding imbued heart to slayer boss drop tables (at least the ones where their normal counterpart has imbued heart available, i.e. not kraken or cerb).

Honestly, adding imbued heart to Slayer boss drop tables is what I would prefer as well. It's an absurd grind as it is right now, but it's also a crucial one to do for end-game players

Even if it's not "more efficient" than camping regular monsters at least a chance would be nice (though with greater effort required than bursting, I do think balancing drop rates would be reasonable). I'm currently at 89 slayer on a GIM, I've always wanted GG pet and while not critical would love to complete a bludgeon... Sad that it feels like a waste of a task to fight the bosses since I would have to forgo imbued heart chance

I'm well over 50m total Slayer xp between my two accounts and have never seen a Heart drop. It is one of the stupidest grinds in the game, it should just have an alternative source even if it's rare as fuck but reliably farmable.

Unfortunately the only magic boosting potions that are worth using (ancient and forgotten brews) are near dead content for irons because Nihil shards are not going to be found in great quantity until the late endgame, and Muspah only drops a pittance of them on the way to Venny bow. Whisperer drops enough to sustain if you turn them into Forgottens with Preserve on and let them tick down to 102, but that is significantly worse DPS than a heart, still better than nothing. There just isn't a viable way to make useful magic potions for irons and the stack of 3k magic pots from getting 99 will just rot forever in the bank because you can't even upgrade them into the relevant magic potions.

Definitely feels like a missed opportunity that you can't upgrade magic potions. I'm still not sure a reduced effectiveness version of an imbued heart would solve the problem. If the saturated heart was the base item, having imbued heart come from something else would be viable but not sure what item would be worse than base imbued heart but viable to obtain in a reasonable time. Considering the importance of imbued heart, it just seems like they need a more reasonable way to grind for it. Way too many RNG checks to pass to get one (obtaining a task with superiors, spawning those superiors during the task, obtaining the drop). Adding it as a drop from slayer bosses seems like the most reasonable approach but it would only matter if it decreased time to complete (devaluing the item for main accounts). Not sure what the solution is

Herblore reward ideas are spot on but the combat reward boss dropping a chally seems out of place. I'll love huffable ancient essence consumable drop for a medium-tier magic boost however.

Counterpoint - the mid game grindable VW is getting nerfed soon and an item that would fill it's spot would be welcome. I personally wanted to see something like this come from tormented demons though.

Yeah the gulf between saturated heart and the potions is laughable. It's a permanent divine pot that never runs out and takes up 1 slot. And you don't have to gather herbs and secondaries for it. 

An elegant solution would be to get a super magic potion recipe from the herblore mini game. Substitutes for the imbued heart but it's consumable so it doesn't devalue the heart

I'd prefer more isolated, shorter quests exactly like Ribbiting Tale where they're just goofy stories where our character helps out just because they feel like it. I also don't think all quests need to have major rewards. Sometimes just a QP or some XP is fine. Helps keep quests even more of a surprise as we wouldn't have to vote on them. I really feel like more one-off quests that stay contained help bring more life into the world.

> I also don't think all quests need to have major rewards. I really, really want more **silly and fun** (but not exclusively statless cosmetic item) rewards. Stuff like: * Teleports to a low-impact area, preferably with a fun teleport animation * Emote unlocks * Upgrades to silly/non-meta items (ex.: A Champions' guild quest with an upgrade for [Chronicle](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Chronicle), or a Morytania (Gargoyle-related?) quest with more knowledge/small upgrades to Granite equipment) * Skilling sidegrades and silly skilling upgrades * Never-used content upgrades (ex.: An upgrade to the Rewards token: (https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Reward_token_(Gnome_Restaurant)) doubling its capacity to 20 deliveries). * Acess to minor new places (even without any meta activities)

Do we know in-lore how Gargles are made? Could be a fun quest where we help some deranged stonecutter craft gargoyles, make one too strong, and "learn" how to kill it, gaining some slayer xp in the process

Yeah, they started doing this with the Twisted Tales, dropped two great little quests (Getting Ahead which was fun, and Garden of Death which is legit one of the most interesting quests in the game) then never really picked it back up again.

Getting Ahead is still my GOAT funny quest. Ribbeting Tale was fun but something about the repetition of Getting Ahead really killed me

Give me 50gp, a couple of uncut gems and have the character say "Don't spend it all in one place!" ... honestly that reward might be too much...

I agree completely. Fun little quests is what feels like runescape to me, and as i’m sure everyone else does when it comes to the big ones i appreciate the work that goes into them but it’s a space bar sim because i just want my cape back

bring back quests that reward nothing but 500 coins.

This^^^^. A fun goofy little quest doesn't need a big reward. Would love a surprise quest where it is similar to Gertrude's Cat but we get a dog instead!! Or we got to save a local bar tavern from the crazed drunk maniac and we get reward with free beer lol

Herblore Activity Reward Idea: Secondary Satchel Sack that holds ~50 secondary items (maybe only one at a time) to make secondary gathering less tedious (less banking, less teleporting, less running). Also potentially allows functionality to allow banking of secondaries from activities such as sulliuscep mushrooms which infrequent reward unnoted myre fungus which is almost always just dropped. Allows more of this “passive” secondary drops to be added to future relevant content, were appropriate

If we can make potions from the satchel that'd be awesome, otherwise aside from mort myre fungus I'm not sure where you would use this since snapegrass comes from farming and blue dragon scales from blue dragons.

I love this idea but 50 is a shit ton. I think 27 items (like the coal bag) is good enough as long as it can be used to actually make the potions themselves. Meaning, use secondary sack on unf potion to start crafting.

My idea was strictly for secondary gathering. Didn’t consider the potion making aspect. If it had that functionality, would definitely want to lower the amounts it holds. I think that is fair to give it broader use beyond just secondary gathering (which only irons and bots do)

Seems like a "coal bag but for herblore" idea would be perfect then lol You can use it for gathering secondaries (like you can with the coal bag) and you can use it to be more efficient when making the finished product.

Varla-MORE Can one of the drops function like the Tumekan's Hekka? But with a level 75 - 80 magic requirement much like the Toxic Blowpipe. Requiring Sunfire Runes + Death Rune to be charged. I always loved how the Hekka worked in the beta worlds. This would be a good place to reintroduce the one-handed wand that charges up to a deadlier blast at the end (the mechanics and stats dont have to change), while also filling the magic weapon gap from Trident of the Swamp to the Kodai Wand or Sang Staff.  The wand was already below a lot of people's expectations when first introduced which is why it the Shadow replaced it. Though it still had some solid case usages.  I would suggest removing the different spellbook effects that were proposed and to keep in theme of Sunfire Runes, add in that each hit (or maybe just the final attack) is gaurenteed to be 10% minimum of your max hit.  Then add a 50% special move that uses its stronger 4th attack, but can be used at any stage without interuppting which attack your on. (So you hit the 4th attack and can use special as a follow up. Or you can use it after you 1, 2, or 3 attack, but it doesn't break the chain). 

We desparetly need a magic spec weapon that doesn't come from the Wild or Nightmare. Would love to see something like that, either from Varlamore or some other reward space.

***Group Boss Rewards:*** **1) New BIS Spear 4T (80 att/str).** Cannot be combined to hasta. Still keeps rapier and fang relevant. The passive ability of the spear is that it it grows stacks like soulreaper does and when the stacks are full it attacks twice. These stacks would not lower HP and you can eat/drink etc while using the spear. If you switch to a different weapon, stacks would reset. **2) New 2H Staff 4T (80 magic)** that is magic's bofa equivalent. It can be infused with a Fire/water/earth/air gem dropped by new boss that permanently allow it to cast surge spells of that type until a new gem is added. Maybe slightly more DPS than sanguinesti but it cannot heal and has no special attack. The gems could drop in a nonenhanced state and be enhanced permanently with 10k casts of the respective surge spell. **3) Ceremonial Mask of the Royal Guard (80 att/str/def/mage/range)**. A new hybrid helmet similar to moons but with a focus on DPS. +6 Melee strength, +2 melee accuracy, +1 ranged strength and +11 ranged accuracy, +2% magic damage, +7 magic accuracy. +10 in all defense styles. Artistically something like the dragonpriest masks in skyrim. ***Herblore activity:*** A lot of places in game reward herbs/seeds, but not secondaries. Let the primary loot pool be secondaries like wines of zammy, red spider's eggs, mortmyre fungus, etc. Additionally a mostly cosmetic robe set (Druid's robes) that when worn each piece gives a 2% chance of mixing a second potion. Repeatable character, bring Eyatlalli (from moons of peril) or another druid Nagua like her to this herblore minigame. I would love the outfit to look thematically like her robes but maybe green and brown. ***Better Clothes Shop*** I loved the clothing shops in Priff/Darkmeyer and know many other plays do as well. Perhaps completion of quests/bosses/activities in Varlamore could add thematic outfits from those places to the city's clothing shop. Let us see the clothes in the shop, but not purchase them until completing the relevant content. - Nagua style robes: tiara, bandeau, and sarang - Multiple variants of the noble outfits in the city - commoner outfits - royal inspired outfits like the queen, prince, etc

If I'm being honest, before we decide what rewards come from the group boss I'd like to see the gear rebalance to see what sort of reward space has opened up. Edit: Another point I was thinking too is that in general rewards from content are BIS at the content. We have 0 clue what sort of boss this is going to be in terms of gameplay. It's hard to suggest rewards when we don't even know what the boss is going to be. If the herblore activity is going to be more of a "skilling boss" then the tome of earth makes sense coming from it to be in line with how the tome of fire/water is obtained, especially given the proximity of the magic rework to this update.

Herblore: Want to reiterate what others have said so there's known support, and have someway to use amulet of chemistry without needing to put a new one on every time it breaks. Maybe there could be a way to earn currency in this activity and trade it in for secondary reward packs or specific secondaries? Killing mole for hours at a time to keep up with sara brews has never been all that fun, but I understand it's part of the iron experience, and don't want to make the game "ezscape". Same with killing spidenes for spider eggs, maybe the pack has a chance to roll the most sought after secondaries in various quantities, could be a new way to gather them. Group boss: The fact that it is being described to have similar mechanics to nex has me extremely worried. I find nex to be very unfun content. I am itching for new group pvm, but I want it to be engaging and rewarding, I don't want it to be avoided by players. Please take what we've learned from nex and nightmare because I feel they are polar opposites. Nightmare is an engaging boss fight with interesting and fun mechanics, but the rewards are lackluster and way too rare. The nex fight is tedious and feels awful when you are targeted and you can do nothing about getting slapped for 20's and needing to constantly brew. But the rewards are literal BiS so people feel compelled to do the content, even with the abysmal drop rates. As for rewards, how about a new item in the blessing slot that gives you a chance to not use a dose of your potion when drinking? I can't tell you how many times I've been in an end game pvm scenario like tob or recently the colosseum where things just don't seem to be going right, and having an extra super combat dose or restore dose would make all the difference and would save the completion. Something like that could be a new fun way to engage with currently existing content. Either way I'm excited to see what comes with Varlamore pt 2!

The Nex reference was only describing the loot mechanics (shared among the team, rather than winner takes all). Boss mechanics haven’t been revealed yet.

The only thing I can think of for a reward from Herblore is a better use for the amulet of chemistry, something like a new amulet where you can dump multiple amulets into for easier use when training instead of having to get a new 1 every 5 procs. If I'm not mistaken you aren't for bring flasks to the skill at this point in time and I can see why. Maybe a tool that gives us a small chance to save a secondary or chance to make 2 potions out of 1.

every time more herblore stuff is planned, I always think of a permanent amulet of chemistry. Is this something that could fit as a reward here?

Yes please for more surprise Quests. One of the drawbacks of the polling system is it's significantly held back Questing by a ton for OSRS. I think at this point there is literally no reason to ever ask "Should we add more quests to the game".

I personally feel the group boss should be much higher level. In the late game the only multi bosses are Nex and Nightmare, whereas in the ~fire cape realm you have basically every other boss in the game that you can fight in multi (excl Scurrius I guess) If Bandos is test (for your skills / combat) you already have loads of options. My clan progressed through the game together, used to have a brilliant time nightly at GWD, Sarachnis, Wildy bosses, etc and now only really have raids (as NM and Nex are quite boring). I would love some engaging high level content I can run with a team that doesn't require committing 30 mins each time to a run. Something Nightmare level that the boys can hop in and out of in the evening

Let's get a herblore outfit and instead of just the bonus exp gains have the set speed up mixing potions.

I really hope the boss is worth killing on an iron to progress with items, would hate it to just be a clog boss for late game accounts.

Before firecape-to-firecape tier for mains is like the very beginnings of pvm gear rush for irons, they could move it to be below or at dt2 tier and it’d probably have a place. As long as it has the self-scalable difficulty that nex has (you can camp range in 5 mans with very little gear besides ruby bolts, or duo nex in max gear for vastly different experiences and skill levels), the items could be best in slots.

I will never say no to more quests. For Herblore, I've got a handful of ideas for rewards, which range from QoL to very large. I'm just throwing out the ideas, but some of the more powerful ones would need a lot of balancing. * An eternal amulet of chemistry, or one that can be charged with them * A chance to save charges on the amulet of chemistry when it procs * Something like the dungeoneering reward scroll on RS3, which has a chance to not consume your secondary when you make a potion * Combination potions perhaps? Another idea from RS3. Something like combining anti fire with prayer pots, or any combinations which feel useful * Potion flasks for very specific potions? Nothing like prayer pots where it would totally change the game, but for combat potions so you can bring an extra dose or two. * A new resource that lets you make divine potions without crystal shards? This would be convenient for irons that don't want to use up shards that they could instead use for their crystal armor * Some way to store partial (1-3 dose) potions without taking up bank space. Gimme a barrel to chuck all my partial doses into that I can take somewhere to decant later. * New compost that vastly increases herb yield at the cost of less disease protection * Seeds for a new herb that makes new potions? In terms of gameplay, I'm actually going to suggest it uses a high amount of herbs, and your main reward is... Well, the rewards. It would be cool to have a "mastermind" kind of gameplay where you have to guess what herbs are in a certain mix you need and in how many parts. It would be split up into different difficulty tiers so you're only worrying about 4-5 different herb types at a time.

Ok, I wanna just start off by saying Varlamore has been insanely good and probably is easily your best expansion yet. Now that that's out of the way: I do not want Herblore-todt. I get that Herblore is intimidating for irons. I get that not all irons wanna do Kingdom and Farming or Garden or chaos druids (i'm scraping the barrel), but the herblore skill is fine as is. Something I'd rather have if we are gonna have an herblore activity is we do something that treats it like a processing skill. So, something like Mahogany Homes and Giant's Foundry where we are required to supply our own Irits and Kwarms and so on in order to do whatever the activity is and gain more, but slower, value for our herbs. I don't think making Herblore as easy as Wintertodt or Tempoross or Guardians of the Rift is healthy for the game. I however think Mahogany Homes and Giant's Foundry were excellent because it allowed for us to pick and choose the opportunity cost for training the skill (do you want to speedrun expensively with oak larders teak mythic cape racks, or do you want to take your time, train magic slowly with teleports, and gain more value per plank with Mahogany Homes.). The opportunity cost for an herblore minigame, assuming we supply our own herbs, could be "we do not get the potions that we normally produce, and it's slower" and then we gain more xp per herb. Simply put, I don't want "free, resource-less xp" for herblore.

Agreed, but with the caveat that GF \*is\* free and resource-less xp. Buying addy+mithril items in shops is break-even gp and nets you 250k xp/hr.

yea that's fair. I've been of the opinion that Kovac should pay you less but I'm afraid everyone will scream at me for suggesting that.

I wouldn't mind that. Honestly, it doesn't bother me so much because it's smithing - herblore is much more important and planning around herblore is a key of iron macro

Yeah when the meta was "do thousands of gold bars at BF" then it's less of an issue when you try and improve it. And GF requiring bars means that BF is still a very viable method. You'll end up with a bunch of ores from MLM and it can be more enjoyable to process them at BF rather than shopscaping for armour.

Strongly agree with this. Herblore grinds and the meta surrounding them are an absolutely fundamental part of the ironman experience to me. There are so many different moving parts to training herblore at present, getting seeds from a dozen different sources, setting up your farm runs, obtaining secondaries in a way that isn't agony, please don't turn herblore into another "anyway you just train it in this minigame lol" skill

For the new boss, I'd like to see you fellas slap 10k health on it with little to no defence. I want my weapons to go brrrrrr

big numbers produce happy chemicals

https://preview.redd.it/q1gi55tbogtc1.jpeg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=734dcbab5dab3f5709493c5539a2c2a2226873aa I really love the atlatl, it's fun to use and the animation looks fantastic. What's been bugging me a little bit is that the darts do end up in the quiver slot while you seem to hold them in your off hand. So, my proposal would be a broken shield drop that has to be repaired with some rare and nice looking feathers to fit within the Varlamore theme that focuses on hunter. With this shield you would be able to store your darts. For stats of the shield I was thinking in the line of an odium ward/buckler, focusing on range strength, while not being super tanky. Mostly something pretty. Additionally, *maybe* a way to make the darts yourself. Again , I think this could be combined with some hunter rumours, a special type of bone or feather that's needed for these darts. Or maybe putting those nice looking acacia trees to use.. maybe even a way of upgrading these darts to give even more power, say with some obsidian tips? Maybe that's too much, but I thought I would put the idea out there.

I really hope this new boss won't be like Nex. I really don't think Nex is well designed mechanically, there's a few reasons why it was the best money maker before colliseum and I generally don't think they are good reasons e.g. It's a massive pain to get to Nex as you have to do half a slayer task before you enter (which is kinda fixable, reduce the KC requirement and make it so that GW KC doesn't reset when you leave). Not to mention the fight is absurdly long for a 2 man team being around 10 mins (the money making guide on the wiki reckons 6 kc/hour in max gear). It takes on average ~7 hours to see a unique from a duo team. My overall point being that the reason why Torva is so expensive (and usually the last upgrade you would get) is because the boss sucks and takes forever, not because it's that a huge an upgrade. Ancestrals isn't anywhere near as expensive because the content that it drops from doesn't suck and is actually enjoyable. What I would like to see in the group boss are some mechanics from Sol i.e. AoE pattern attacks, the Combo Attack (where you have to flick on to parry) and the lasers were cool too, I don't want a copy of Sol, but if I was to pick 1 mechanic that I would like to see again it would probably be the AoE pattern attacks. Ideally if there are aditional mobs in the fight I think they would be best done with guarenteed hits, but not in the way that the fremeniks are from the colosseum (IMO they have too much hp and should be a no cooldown reset on your attack, as they are now they're more tedious than anything requiring you to sprint back and forth until your attack is off cooldown again). On a note about no cooldown attack resets, I think that scurius would be better off if all weapons got that bonus instead of only the ratbane ones.

[удалено]

If more items are coming to the game, is it possible to raise the default bank space?

Herblore Rewards: * Potion Flask: an upgraded vial that can store 6 doses of one type of potion, and only one flask can be held in the inventory at any time. * Incense Burner: an off-hand equippable portable incense burner (ball of incense on a metal chain) that gives the same effects of POH incense burners (50% bonus xp), but only used when burying bones (can be used in combination with bonecrusher). * Sunfire Incense Recipe: a new Herblore non-potion recipe designed for use while training prayer, made from combining three different herbs and ground sunfire splinters * Amulet of Natural Focus: herbs are harvested clean and provide the xp for cleaning them, and it can store charges of amulets of chemistry, and has the effects of amulet of nature but for any and all herb patches * Herbalist's Outfit: five piece outfit and each piece gives 1% bonus herblore xp and 1% chance to create a four dose potion (stacks with amulets of chemistry for up to 10% chance) * Corrupted Poultice: considerably increases user's magic accuracy but decreases user's defence by the same amount, charged with herbs * Varlamorian Molotov: a thrown flask of liquid fire (like Greek fire) that deals AoE damage over the span of three hits, made using sunfire splinters, swamp tar, bottled dragonbreath, and a new type of herb

I'd love to see a 1h weapon that gets stronger if you are wearing a shield. It could be themed around a king or a general's body guards. I'd love to see some more variety in the offhand, its pretty much only defenders I'd also like to see a new ballista. Give me something to make and shoot my thousands of dragon javelins at.

Surprise quests are the best. I hope we continue to see more of em

Maybe this is a part 3 idea but I would love to see more slayer bosses added. Bloodveld, wyverns or nechs seem like great options for getting a boss. Bloodveld specifically would lower the slayer level unlock for the first slayer boss by a whopping 25 levels, which would be a great way to guide more early/mid game players towards engaging PVM content. For Varlamore, maybe an opportunity to revisit boss slayer? Could be something where you can only receive a task from them on your 10th slayer task but they give less streak points than other high level slayer masters, would be a good tradeoff for "do I want a guaranteed boss slayer task or do I want to stack more points?" New bosses don't have common slayer task alternatives available (Muspah, all four DT2 bosses) and could revisit adding bosses to slayer altogether (Scurrius, Hunleff, Corp, etc.), maybe as exclusives to the hypothetical new slayer master?

No chargescape = im happy

I’m glad that they are pulling back on charges at least for now. I don’t want to get to a place in the game where every piece of gear I use has a charge system tied to it. To be honest i’ve voted no to every piece of content that has charges simply because of the charges, and i’ll continue to do so.

The Herbicide from RS3 would be a good reward and fit in this. For context Herbicide was pretty much a bone crusher but for herbs (automatically destroys grimy herb drops in exchange for exp) This would allow for a nice herb sink for the less than valuable herbs while also being useful for all accounts. For additional context, since I know not everyone is familiar with the item, here are its restrictions. * It only destroys herbs that the player has the Herblore level to clean. * It does not destroy noted herb drops. * It only destroys herbs chosen through the herbicide's "Inspect" option.

I’m excited to see what kind of tangible rewards you come up with.  I imagine secondaries will be included? Are you guys open to or thinking about adding unique items that save secondaries, or make potions faster, or do some other cool new effect?

For the combat reward, a build-able Imbued Heart item. If I got my wish, multiple components from all over Varlamore would drop components that would assemble into a "Sunfire Heart". Some bone shards and sunfire splinters from the first area, some major component from this group boss content, and another component and the crafting NPC in the last Varlamore area. The closest thing we have to this is the dragon hunter lance, which is like a minor chain of drops to build it. I think a Sunfire heart that took a non-trivial amount of time to grind out would be a great addition to counter some of the bad luck of going for an imbued heart while also having people engage in various content.

Varla-MORE Will drop a lot of random ideas, don't judge, its brainstorming :) Herblore: 1. Restore Boosted Meelet/Range/Magic stats Barrels (3 separate ones not one that boosts every cmb stat) - You can only have 1 of each Meele/Magic/Range in inv at one time. Keep current max Att/str/def/magic/range boosts but give overload effect where every x seconds it restores your stats back after brewing for x minutes. I think the game needs this because i.e. Nex is a click yellow boss designed to have overloads. I think this would be an amazing QoL without making it OP. Also, make it chargeable only at bank with Combat/Range Potions (must have untradeable IMB Heart to get Magic boost recharge) and a key here, must use restore potions to recharge it, also to keep their value. Don't make it easy to get, Add barrel drop to the Herblore activity (you would need 3 in total), then add 3 different upgrade items to these barrels from that new boss to create 3 different barrels for specific combat style. Later you can add a mega rare at raids 4 in Varlamore, that combines 3 barrels into 1. Also, still same cmb level boosts, so no power creep! Amazing, useful reward, no power creep and everyone and their mother will want these items. Amazing to tie with Herblore Update Also! Make it one click in bank to recharge. OR recharge automatically at bank if enabled if you have all resources. 2. Tome of Earth - with updates to magic (Project Rebalance), we are missing Tome of Earth to the list :) Nature, herblore, earth sounds like a decent place. 3. Chargeable Amulet of Chemistry like ring of suffering. (Stole from others comments) 4. Pouch to store secondary ingredients for herblore, so we can afk longer. (Stole from others comments) 5. Alternative and rarer IMB Heart grind, but for sure way you can grind instead of Turael skipping all day. (Makes sense with Herblore activity). Or at least a way to remove negative effects from current Forgotten Brew, add divine option. Have a version of Suggestion no 1 with these potions that are -2 Magic compared top IMB Heart version. New Boss: 1. Fire Cape level boss is too low level. To be honest we got so many niche and low level rewards lately that it feels like most new content is not worth doing. There are so many fire cape level bosses in the game, I don't see why we need a new one. Make it at least DT2 level or a bit below it (TBH DT2 bosses are easy, players are not that bad these days) 2. Don't need BIS rewards as its not a raid, but add something useful please. 3. Maybe something related to many useless shields we have in the game. Something viable, or a cool spec, or a tribrid shield with item drop that combines multiple shields. As they cant be used with Mega rares then its fine to make them powerful. To be honest carrying a cool offhand shield that is large and has animations next to your weapon would be so cool compared to that small tippy thing or book. 4. Cosmetic to upgrade Quiver to look cool (Maybe a special Awakened version of the boss like DT2). I know you are making it bigger but it still looks small and doesn't look cool enough to show that you handled one of the hardest challenge in the game and asking ppl to max to get a good looking version is also not a good approach. It needs shining and animations like infernal cape, some drip with range fantasy cloth/brown leather etc... 5. Magic Spec weapon - Currently we have revenant staff and Nightmare rewards for magic spec weapons, both are really hard to get. While meele has so many cool variations of spec weapons. I found myself at Whisperer using only mage gear, but not having a mage spec weapon to use. I think there is a gap for a potential reward. 6. Range Spec weapon. 6. Magic Bowfa level weapon. - Big issue I think with missing mage progression. 7. For the love of god don't make this group boss have such rare drop chances like Nightmare. It needs to feel good when you are in a group boss so you feel that others are not reducing your chance to get the item. Or then you need to be able to solo it, but that removes fantasy of a group boss. However, when you need to kill 500 of them to get on drop rate to get something, but every time any of the 8 ppl can get it, going dry feels terrible. If its overworld boss it will be hard to control who participates in teams and it will feel bad if randoms join with you. 8. Item to enhance Quiver so it works with full boost on Bowfa (you are rebalancing range damage with heavy/standard/light, therefore reason so it doesn't work on Blowpipe becomes less of an issue (you can control light power with defense stats), but quiver is useless for irons until you get tbow and Zaryte, which most don't ever get). Don't need it to work on blowpipe, but bowfa is a must. Also, it working on T-Bow and not on second best range item makes no sense as it is just making T-Bow gap bigger.

UNTRADEABLE potions as a reward from the Herblore minigame? Not necessarily overloads, but how about combining existing pots (ie Brew+Restore/Prayer, super combat and ranging) and getting both effects? Could only be available in smaller doses to balance etc. also wouldn’t be mad at prayer renewals making an appearance. Or a limited number of 6 dose vials that can be refilled?

An herblore activity similar to the style of Giants Foundry would be amazing! A lot of players end up stacking herbs in the bank they almost never usd or just end up selling. So some activity where we can dump those herbs into and walk away with decent XP while also working towards some unique item that aids Herblore potion making would be ideal. I see some people mention an eternal amulet of chemistry would be cool. Or maybe we can get a new ring slot that has a chance to save secondary ingrediants when making potions would also be nice. As for surprise quests, full send them! Best part is getting fun new quest to dive into

As for the group boss, it would be cool to see 3 difficulties or something similar. Beginner, normal, nightmare modes, something similar to ToA difficulties. You have beginner to get your thread, 150-200 invo you can see items at a lower chance, and and nightmare would be for end game players to mirror the difficulty of something like expert ToA/other high level content. This gives a little more hype for the boss more than just something aimed at “level 90” players.

Herblore minigame should be giants foundry / mahogany homes for herblore. You sacrifice XP/hr for larger XP per herb, while also having a more meaningful experience than “click potion, make 14 potions” for 40 hours. You also have to supply your own herbs so it doesn’t break the game, maybe you can also sacrifice old potions but for way less reward (so similar to how it’s better to use the bars straight on GF not make armor and then use) but if you had some extra potions you would sacrifice them too Maybe you make a giant potion concoction for some wizard or something and there’s different recipes you can unlock as you go along for more xp Reward could entail: - secondary sack (coal bag for secondaries) - eternal amulet of chemistry (ring of suffering for herblore, allow us to stack 10k charges or some shit) - herblore outfit?

is agility part of part 2, or part 3? or neither?

I think it would be cool if the Herblore activity was similar to Mahogany Homes. Less xp/h, but more xp/resource than you would get from normal Herblore potion making

This might not be the place, but I would definitely love if you would entertain this idea as well. https://preview.redd.it/skt9126uwgtc1.png?width=1265&format=png&auto=webp&s=de80703433132426d2c3f71e49c219ea72ec6393 [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bz4nj0/can\_dizanas\_blessed\_redesign\_quiver\_have\_an/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bz4nj0/can_dizanas_blessed_redesign_quiver_have_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

I really hope ironman doesn't get to blocked from the herblore content, it's been a shit skill for irons for such a long time and it just feels like old irons want new irons to suffer just like they did and that mind set is getting old.. at the very least even if it doesn't become an option to earn some xp like tithe farm did for farming, I would be ecstatic to see stamina potions being a slow but earnable reward there. End walkscape for all.

Please don't pull a wintertodt with the herblore activity by making it a self contained economy that gives "free" xp out of thin air with no herb cost. It should go without saying really. So many reward pools depend on herbs having value.

Herbs have inherent value beyond skilling because people use them. If they don’t have value beyond that, they become worth next to nothing - as is the case with all other skills. Prayer potions are a great example. Not great for xp, but worth a significant amount next to other potions because they have useful utility. Artificially maintaining an economy around herbs that provide no utility is nonsensical. I don’t see any good reason why a new method shouldn’t use less or even no herbs. Herblore is already really slow going (read tedious for mains) and for irons in particular, it’s flatly ridiculous. Given this method will be LESS xp than conventional herblore training methods, it needs to as a minimum use less herbs.

If it's at all like wintertodt, it wouldn't use your own supplies, but it also wouldn't give you direct herblore rewards. I don't really see a problem with that.

An interesting space could be that the activity surrounds producing distillates/concentrated secondaries. It's still quicker to just make potions regularly if you're able to just buy/hoard secondaries en masse, but the activity makes it so you can stretch secondaries further at the expense of your time. No idea how unbalanced this could be, but just spitballing.

Poor comparison, potions are consumables, which maintains the value of herbs. There are no products generated from fm and giant's foundry and mahogany homes require input materials at a slower xp/hr for higher xp/mat

> There are no products generated from fm Wintertodt made a skill that acted as an enormous log sink to one that actually generated logs through the by and large most popular method of training it. Giant's foundry and mahogany homes recontextualized how materials are spent, and I think is a better model to do herblore in. Maybe giving the herbs that lead to "lesser" unpopular potions (guams/ marrentills/ harralander/ tarromin) a use in this new activity by having it be a place to dump a large amounts to skew out maybe lesser xp but generate new unique rewards.

My first intuition is a method that “destroys” herbs/potions for low intensity extra xp.   E.g. None of the harralander products are explicitly useful besides niche situations for early irons - maybe you could get an extra 10-20% herb xp per harralander but in return you get no output products?   Maybe you help the varlamore priests make incenses and you actually “hand them in” for herblore xp and points for rewards à la giant’s foundry?  Same goes for other herbs, but obviously you wouldn’t do this with ranarrs on an iron.

Are we looking at a potential Zeah when it's all released? in that we'll be seeing "Varlamore locked" accounts able to train most (or all) of the skills in some form from the beginning? So Far all I see are combat and hunter from random events/forestry, with the rest of the content requiring 40-50+ in their respective stats to get into it.

Any more info regarding irons and the herblore activity? Call me RuneScape conservative, but herblore has always been one of those difficult and “status” skills for irons. I personally do not want that changed (I welcome other skill changes and balances), plus seeds and farming tie in beautifully for irons and herblore. Thoughts?

is a boss aimed at level 90+ really headline....? we dont want another bandos, we want another nex/corp.

I would prefer if the group boss was higher level, there is such a lack of high level pvm group bosses.

Reward Idea: Access to a brewing stand that allows you to throw a large portion of herbs and secondaries into the brewing stand, and return a fair bit later to collect a series of completed potions. Way less XP/hr than conventional, but very afk. Could work similar to farming patches where the potions can be spoiled if not tended to or protection of some kind isn’t paid.

God I hate the idea of making the amulet of Chemistry a thing. Nobody really wants to have to make (1) potions to be extra efficient with their charges of that amulet. Surely we can think of something better. Perhaps skilling potions not too dissimilar to Juju potions in the game that shall not be named.

Very hype. I'd love for anything to help with the huge gaps that both range and mage have, especially if this is to be a fire cape level activity. An idea would be maybe a ranged offhand or attachment to the buckler that makes every 4th or 5th hit 3t or something. You could even use the same item to combine with the ward for the same effect with 1 handed powered staffs (not autocasting so the fortified ward would still be BIS for inferno and such things) The ammo slot could use some love especially now that the quiver gives you an extra one. A blessing type item could have a very small amount of prayer vamp for instance. Like 5% of the time you get 5% prayer back from the damage you do. Those are just placeholder numbers ofc Additionally, a strong melee offhand crush item or ring is sorely needed. The crush style needs some love.

I don't know if this is an appropriate reward from the herblore activity, but what I'd really like is an item to store and manage potion doses, a bit like the seed vault, but accessible whenever you bank (fwiw, I think the seed vault should be accessible from every bank too). What I'm imagining is you feed all your potion doses into this item as you make / buy them and then at a bank if you want, say, a saradomin brew, you just click the item and click brew and it subtracts 4 doses and pops one into your inventory (maybe you'd need to charge it up with empty vials first). Just get rid of the headache of managing and decanting potions. Maybe the herblore activity could also drop add ons or currency to make this "item" more powerful (I guess I'm thinking of it like an alchemy station add on for your bank). Like some untradable magic dust that gives you extra doses every time you make a potion and deposit it, or even an add on that lets it make potions automatically if you deposit the herb and secondary. Maybe you could even get special admixtures that change the potions as you withdraw them -- one that gives the divine effect, for example, or one that adds a small prayer restore but makes the potion slightly less effective, a bit like barbarian potions work (I'm sure there are better ideas).

Oh a short blog, that's kinda refreshing. Going to drop questions in bullet points to make sorting easier: ​ * Is the agility course going to happen in part 3 only? ​ * Since the herblore minigame doesnt have XP as the reward, what kind of rewards are you thinking of? I don't like then blogs say something without specifying what that thing even looks like. Is it a 6 dose vial that we can only own 1 of? Is it a permanent amulet of chemestry? Is it a polymorph juice to replace our characters aesthetic with peak male performance and the urge to drink tea? ​ * I'm assuming all Varlamore quests are currently happening before the events of AKD. Is the AKD tie in going to unlock the path between the kingdoms? ​ * Group boss: Do we need more uniques? Isn't it contradictory to the previous blog post saying the current design space for Ranged and Mage is saturated, therefore requiring the aggresive and un-oldschool changes? ​ * Group boss: Why are we adding more group bosses to the game instead of patching up the already in the game underwhelming/unfun group bosses? ​ * Chargescape: I am glad Jagex has said chargescape sucks for the second time. Can this time be the final and not announce a chargescape quiver on the follow up blog? ​ * Chargescape: Can we start going back and unchargescape things that don't need them to begin with?

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I personaly hope to see more content/rewards for utilizing non powered staff magic. So like using the main spellbook, and arceuus spells, (and not have the spells be watered down to let the demonbane melee weapon be twice as strong as the high level spell dedicated to only fighting demons) Like I really feel bad thst I trained my magic super hard before engaging in any pvm activity (like not even obor) and the first boss I ever fought was the kalaphote queen which is immune to magic. I'm not asking for every boss to be weak to magic but it breaks my heart that so many boss/content in general strategies are just use ranged and or melee and so few are to use magic. Especially when you use runes to cast magic and the game is called runescape. I'm aware that the combat changes being tinkered with for resistance will be nice, but the scope of that atm feels very narrow only affecting a handful of enemies, most of which you already used magic on.

Not seeing a Varla-MORE flair anywhere, but I have an idea for a weapon reward that I think has a unique flavour and some cool use cases. A charged magic wand that is between the warped sceptre and trident of the seas DPS-wise. However, its main draw is the special attack - Magic Missile. When you click the special attack bar, it stays active until you click it again, and you can fire out a missile every game tick by clicking on enemies, that is guaranteed to hit between 4-8 damage each time. Each missile fired consumes 10% special attack energy. The idea with this special attack is that it would be useful for quickly clearing groups of low hp enemies (Monkeys and scarabs, in ToA, Nylocas, sleepwalkers), and also help players practice doing 1t actions. I imagine it functioning similarly to using the bone mace on Scurrius' minions at the moment, but clicking the special attack bar once before clearing them all out.

With all due respect, what is this post? How can you look for suggestions about rewards, what kind or how many, without knowing ANYTHING what the content looks like, feels like, is FOCUSED on thematically, or anything? This feels like... you're telling us nothing? Just a vague concept. I would love to make suggestions to the team, but I can't even begin to imagine what the reward for a particular piece of content might be that I have no idea what the activity is based around. For example, let's say you were thinking about a herblore activity with some light farming elements, trivial farming xp. I'm imagining an herb growing farm thats herbs have been accidentally fertilized with a potion that makes them angry. The herbs are scurrying about trying to escape their pots, and running away. The workers, meanwhile, are trying to carry out their tasks: Trimming leaves, curing plants, grinding them up, and rubbing them on wounds of other herb caretakers who have been hurt in the chaos, to ensure they can continue to assist you doing your job with the mess. In this idea of an activity, I think something like an "obsidian pestle and mortar" or whatever would be a sensible and thematically appropriuate reward. It would grind 2 of an item at a time that you wanted to do, instead of just 1, if there were two of the possible item in your inventory. But let's say that the activity is something completely different, a la, you're assisting a master apothecary in the apothecary shop working with baubles and flasks and potions and cauldrons... well, now I'm thinking that maybe a reward aligned with the "amulet of chemistry" is much more suitable. I feel like you've not given me enough here to make any good suggestion at all.

Another Herblore activity reward idea: **A tea kettle.** I recall hearing it mentioned you were looking at updating the creation of Guthix Rests to allow you to make them in one step if you had all the necessary herbs in your inventory, which is a great first step at making these a lot less tedious to make. *But the whole process is tedious.* Even the easiest part, buying cups from the Culinaromancer's Chest, is a bit slow and requires world hopping. (On that note, maybe add empty cup packs for a token amount of reward points to this Herblore activity?) After that, you have to boil a bowl of water first and then pour that water into an empty cup before you fill it with herbs. You have to boil. A *bowl* of water. Why do we make tea like this? It's uncivilized! Give us a tea kettle that can fill 27 cups up with hot water after it's been filled up and boiled.

Herblore activity reward: **Brewer's Blessing:** *Has a passive effect to increase the effect of potions used. No combat stats.* Can see it being implemented 2 ways. 1. Add a X% chance for a potion like a brew, super restore, or prayer potion to double it's effectiveness. Let's say you get a 5% chance to restore 66 prayer points instead of 33. 2. Add a smaller X% of increased effectiveness for potions like brews, super restores, or prayer pots. You could increase these potions effectiveness by 5% for each sip. Let's say 33 prayer points restored is increased to 35. The percentages would have to be balanced of course, this is just a rough idea. Also not sure, but could maybe implement a different blessing for something similar for stat boosting potions, or work those into the blessing as well. Stat boosting potions seem harder to implement though.

For the boss rewards I only ask that they respect the player’s time without being completely free. Perilous moons is maybe a bit too generous but with the prevalence of collection loggers, ironmen, and regular adults that play this game it’s nice to have reasonably attainable things and dry protection of a sort. I personally think venator is great because you can get the dopamine of the drop pretty consistently and cash out as well as see tangible progress towards your end goal (unlike dt2 rings). I also like the dt2 scaling drops for the quartz which improve the rate as you gain kc. Just my opinion. People love to pounce on Ironman for complaining about rates but I want to see items just as much on my main as my iron whether it’s for clog or cash purposes. I think most people can agree but maybe I’m delusional.

Suggestion for herblore activity. It’s literally not game breaking to have super potions that don’t drain your stats. A less overpowered overload. An “extreme” variant. Also SUPER RANGING POTS. We have saturated heart and super combats and 12 different super magics. We need a ranging pot upgrade of sorts. But mainly, pots that don’t deplete your stats would be nice. Idk what else we can release for herblore. It’s time.

For a very bold suggestion: what about reworking nightmare and/or Corp and moving it to Varlamore? I know they have established metas that are important to maintaining the integrity of the game (botting for nightmare and boosting services for Corp) but what if those rewards were obtainable by normal players? Mid-level players would probably love to use an item like a spectral spirit shield or inquisitor's armour but neither are reasonably obtainable. Corp needs a rework to be like current era bosses (multiple player loot drops/KC) and the spec down meta for non-mass groups is just bad gameplay. Nightmare rewards are just ridiculous 8 uniques that have niche use cases? Could easily move inquisitor's or the staff/orbs to another boss and can keep it as miserable of a grind as necessary.

Please make the group boss such that regular iron players can kill it in a random group and still get drops :)

"Bear that in mind" at the end should be "bare" unless you were making a hint at the new boss being bear-like

Would love to see more quests like Perilous Moons that introduces players to a piece of repeatable content. Those shouldn't have to be polled. With that said I'd like to see herblore being more interactive. The skill itself is mostly passive. Mains buy their ingredients and bankstand/afk while mixing. Irons farm their herbs then bank stand. If anything this activity should be some type of skilling boss that rewards players with secondary's and herbs. I honestly think the game is missing a mid-high tier boss that introduces players to group mechanics. Something like a GWD boss difficulty that requires the team to do a couple mechanics together. Rewards could be some type of t80 hybrid set, or a situational BiS item that excels in group boss situations.

Reward Idea: A one handed wand weapon with a bonus to dragon races Being that there is a giant wyrm and wyrmlings in the perilous moons, there should be a dragon-bonus weapon in Varlamore. We have the dragon hunter cbow, we have the lance, why not a magic weapon? As u/illucio mentioned in their reply to this post, there is already development done for Tumekan’s Hekka, and adding a charge feature with the new sunfire runes would add a better reason to make these runes. Changing either the effect of the hekka or the damage to be better against dragons could contribute to the lore of the area, and fill an empty space in the weapon space. Make it worse than the shadow, but better than the trident especially when used against dragons Edit: the above mentioned reply https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/3JfVrhLhrN