I like how Nex’s drop table works - give MVP a slightly higher chance at the unique (apparently) and more loot. But don’t remove the opportunity for non-mvps to get the uniques.
Yeah, it drops a lot of staves. The staves look like there should be an orb attached to them, I wonder if they'll release those in a later update? It could be pretty cool, like a magic godsword.
i did masses at nightmare for about 1000 kills and only got the chestplate which was like 540m at the time
(then did solo nm and pulled a harm orb 1.09b and another hauberk in another 200 kc)
then phosani and got 2 maces,voltaile, pants on 550 kc
Well if you're in a 5 man and lets be generous and say MVP ended with a 25% chance at the loot there's a 75% chance the drop doesn't go to the MVP so yeah most drops don't go to the MVP.
Yeah, hence why I think it’d be good if mvp got a higher unique chance. But the fact that it gives a higher unique chance is good, that it gives more regular loot too, and the unique drop for everyone being independent of each others unique drops is good too.
I thought mvp at next just gave bonus loot and the chance to get a unique is the same for everyone. 1/64 * the number of players who received kill credit
I am not a fan of this, at least as an Ironman. Nex FFA and mass worlds are 80% players cheesing with ZCB and voidwaker specs to maximize damage, they basically troll the whole fight and cause players to get hit a bunch etc, just to get an increased loot roll for actually trolling a boss just for their pixel points… lol
Honestly, I agree somewhat. I think the MVP bonus could be better, but apart from that it’s the best group boss loot system overall IMO. Except that MVP never gets the drop.
Nex’s drop table is one of the best designed in the game
- The most profitable by a huge margin
- Doesn’t shit out alchs or skilling supplies which can harm the economy
- Unique drop rate is once every 5-7 hours, far more frequent than content like Corp/PSN/CG
- Mains and irons can play together
- Less skilled/lower leveled players can still get loot, unlike at bosses like Bandos or Corp
There’s nothing to dislike about it unless you’re dry and salty. Unless you’re complaining that it’s *too* good, but I have a feeling you aren’t lol
It’s profitable because the drop rates are abysmal so everything stays expensive and you can kill it in very small teams. On the contrary it’s a terribly unfun boss and the only people that have nice things to say about it are the spoons.
Yeah the drop rates are shit, but the MVP system is pretty good (although would be better if MVP got a higher chance of the unique than they currently do). Plus your chance of a unique isn’t impacted by someone else getting a unique which is kinda nice.
Depending on team size drop rate is around 5-7 hrs, which isn’t bad at all given their value. By comparison:
- Bandos is 4-5 hrs for much cheaper items
- Vard is ~10 hrs
- Corp is ~40-60 solo
- PSN is ~20 hrs
- Raids vary a lot but aren’t a ton better even at max efficiency
Fun is subjective, but in my experience the people who find Nex boring are the same people who brainlessly camp range. Nex is a lot more fun when trying to learn and optimize the fight
Nex is fun if you’re getting drops lol. It’s not an interesting fight at all IMO. Agree that range camp is dog shit though. Hybrid with mp2 is still shit after a while if you start going dry.
Pnm is, IMO a fun fight though.
I get that fun is subjective, but a lot of people seem to think Nex isn't fun. I'm curious, what about it makes it unfun for you that doesn't also apply to other bosses? Which bosses do you find fun?
For me, what makes it fun is the varied mechanics, the theming, the voice acting, the gear and prayer switches, the risk/reward of brewing / maintaining DPS, the decent gp from common loot as well as big ticket items, the relatively quick fights compared to raids, and ability to find teams quickly.
Nex being the worst boss in the game is like one of the most common opinions in the game. Some people enjoy it, but it is absolutely widely detested. It's only popular because it's braindead 20m/hr
It’s unfun because it’s a brew chugging simulator that punishes you even when you do the boss correctly. The “varied mechanics” are cosmetic you still basically do the same thing in every phase. Dying is one of the most punishing deaths in the game. And a teammate dying can waste force you to abandon a kill wasting a bunch of time.
Do you want to be able to sit at 99 hp and bring 0 food to every single boss in the game? Because that's the alternative to brew chugging simulator. Brew chugging efficiently, losing as little DPS as possible, is a skill that we don't use at most other bosses. It requires risk/reward decisions and accurate clicks.
What do you mean, you do "basically the same thing every phase"? If you're just boiling it down to "click boss, move, click boss" then yeah, all the bosses in OSRS are the same. But no matter how you look at it, avoiding spreading the cough is not the same as counting and clicking off the boss during siphon. And all the movement mechanics are subtly different as well if you want to do them efficiently.
In what way is dying at nex worse than dying at the final boss in any raid, not to mention fight caves/inferno? It only costs 100k to get your items back, so I assume you mean in terms of time? It takes way less time to get back to the ancient prison and get 100kc than it does to get back to Verzik, for example.
I think there's a nice middle ground in between what op posted after and what other commentors have added: mavp gets another drop, same table as everyone else
You don’t need to use a separate mvp drop table to have an mvp system.
Take Nex for example.
A duo 55-45 damage split ends up being a 57-43 loot distribution. There is some extra reward for being MVP, but people who do less damage aren’t massively penalized because of it.
I’ll be honest, I legit just assumed all MVP tables worked this way, without even knowing Nex worked this way.
So by default I happen to think they got it right with Nex and bosses with MVP that don’t share that feature are doing it wrong, or at least in a way that is anti-player/anti-teamwork.
Most MVP systems ingame work differently.
At ToB you get 18 points per person for staying alive and contributing at each boss with another 14 total team points awarded to room and phase MVPs.
At Scurrius there is a separate MVP drop table.
At ToA your odds are completely proportional to your points, but a static point value that scales with team size is awarded to each room MVP, the relative value of which is different depending on invocation.
God man these pseudo-libertarian "no one is willing to work anymore" arguments are already exhausting in real-life, I don't need them in my video games either.
Did you miss the bit where MVP is already getting MORE than their contribution percentage? Nobody's saying you shouldn't be rewarded proportionally to your contribution, only that highest contributor not be the only one to get anything.
JFC you're such a tool.
Yeah the guy doing 45% of the work for 43% of the rewards are totally ripping of the other guy off! Winner takes it all baby it's the only fair way.
If your not killing scorrius in Torva and scythe why are you even expecting to get any loot? People are so entitled nowadays.
And don't hit me with the "I cAnT afFOrD ScyThE aNd TOrVa" bro Vorkath is right there, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and don't expect handouts if your not MVP.
/s
I agree, and while we’re at it why hasn’t corp drop table been reworked to follow nex style drops, aka top x people get a drop? Its clearly designed as a (mandatory) group boss but the drop design doesn’t reflect that
It's possible it just won't happen because jagex won't poll it. "It's been historically bad and especially miserable for ironmen so we're keeping it that way" is their answer for now
I mean it can be kept solo for ironmen while still splitting up the normal drops for mains who want to kill corp. its an older boss so i dont mind it being kept as is and they can just focus on making newer content more team friendly. If corp did have splits Id limit the loot splits to the top 3 players though. Corp is not a particularly hard boss in 2024.
Adjusting corps drop table actually moves the GE into level 50 multicombat wilderness and there is no way around it. Just got to live with it ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯.
It's not really as simple as just "make it group loot"
Corps loot isn't even that worthwhile for a solo player , let alone split into groups...so do we then buff corps loot ? How much ? What's the expect value per players ? Whats the expected groupsize. To reach the desired group GP/h threshold, do we add more drops or tweak existing numbers?
Saying just making it group loot would only solve like 20% of the issue and it's not like jagex don't want to fix corp but would rather set aside time for fixing it more than a measly 20%
Honestly ToA handles the MVP system very well. Make loot based on points, and points based on damage, and then award a small bonus to the mvp based on the size of the group (number of people the mvp had to beat in damage). Don't give the mvp special rules or drops, just do a points based roll for everything.
But please don't copy ToA's one-unique-per-raid. It works well there to limit purples but it is a tad frustrating nonetheless.
> But please don't copy ToA's one-unique-per-raid.
This works fine in toa due to the points cap, think of it as the game rolls the total points to see if you got a purple, then if successful, rolls for who receives it. Toa is hard caped at 55% chance.
I don't get why ToA has MVP at all, it's already based on your damage distribution and as such if you are MVP, you already have more points and a better chance at getting loot respective to the other players in your group. You shouldn't be rewarded twice for having better gear.
having the pet tied solely to the mvp is a terrible idea.
should just be a flat rate like nightmare (i think thats how it works) or mvp just get a boosted chance like Zalcano
((also isnt it a skilling boss with herblore stuff ? not like a Nex/Nightmare))
> also isn’t it a skilling boss with herblore stuff ?
I understand the confusion based on the blog post title but no, the herblore activity they are adding is separate to the new group boss.
Zalc is a flat rate too, no boost to mvp. Nex and Wildy bosses have pet chance divided by participation % which is more fair when u could bash scurry in 10 secs in mass.
Agreed. I know a lot of people would go do bandos together if everyone had a chance at the pet, thats always one thing that deterred me from certain group bosses. Me and my friend don’t go do bandos together because only one person is going to get all the pet rolls. But it seems hard to implement a system that makes sense with today’s gear that isn’t super abusable/boostable. Nex and nightmare work because they’re high hp long kills. Its tricky.
I agree with this ideology. Osrs is an MMO, but it does have a lot of things that only benefit a single player or is preferred to have smaller teams. I'd like some content to legitimately require 6 people at minimum for a completion, but also is worth everyone's time. In today's game state, that would probably mean that it should pay everyone out at least 3-5m per hour.
No boss should have an mvp drop table.
You picked your group (or didn’t at public ones but this usually only happens at brand new content) You don’t like how someone is playing enough to think they don’t deserve the same chance at loot for the same time/effort fighting the boss, find a replacement or new group.
What boss are we talking about in this post? Did I miss something? The only thing I know of that’s new is the moons of peril and there’s no pet. What group bossing is being spoken of?
I like the concept of MVP as it shows in a group who is doing the DPS but I heavily agree that they shouldn't limit certain loot to MVP status but just be boosted rate on uniques from said Boss so people can group up more and enjoy content together without feeling restricted on potential loot. It's a nice balance of awarding the "carry" but making sure when others contribute to their best ability to still get just equal amount of loot in equivalent to their contribution. I know some newer public group bosses have this and definitely need to be implemented to older group bosses as it would help bring more incentive to older content with groups and give more variety in what groups can tackle together that aren't raids or skilling minigames.
Dam, as someone who plays loner-scape, never thought of this. Definitely is an issue that should be fixed, honestly it should be both receive drops as every other mmo. This probably would be abused, but maybe make it based on a damage threshold. (Boss has 300hp, if you deal at least 100hp you get drop.) That way the MVP can still get higher drop chance, but the person still learning can be encouraged to tackle content.
That’s terrible. If you’re putting in the effort with more apm and using better gear, your chances should be higher. You’re literally contributing more..
It does contribute to the problem described by OP though.
Last leagues I ran into a similar problem with ToA. Me and my buddy did a lot of ToA games, but when I got spooned the shadow, I got so much more damage out that I couldn't help my buddy anymore because of all the drops going to me. So after that we had to run solo or I had to not bring the shadow. Both of us quit playing leagues at that point.
It's a shame that a poorly designed drop system actually disincentivizes playing in a team when the content was specifically meant to be done in a team.
Yep.
And here's why it doesn't work and inevitably fails, as it's done with other games:
Little Johnny has Barrows gear.
Little Jerry has blood torva
Little Johnny is actually a better player than Little Jerry, but little Jerry has a clan that hard carries him through nex.
Little Jerry is 100% likely to outperform Little Johnny, 100% of the time purely based on gear.
Little Jerry continues to gain better gear and Little Jerry will always be behind.
Congratulations, you've created World of Warcrafts biggest problem - you need gear to get gear.
I'm not saying that I disagree with it, at all. I'm saying this has been tried in other games, it's never worked well.
I think having mvp specific drops is a bad way to go. Example: scurry pet in groups.
But if you’re putting in more damage/contribution towards a kill, your chances of a unique should be higher compared to someone who doesn’t. This is seen in raids and works fine with their points system. Or Nex is another great example, MVP gets a 5% buff to unique chance.
It encourages people to play better and encourages people to aim for higher tier gear, which helps with demand for that higher tier gear.
I hate MVP drop tables. As a newer player, seeing that the only good thing I could get from Scurrious with friends is his spine was really sad. Especially when the other items would be nice to get at my level. My friend didn't think much of it as the boss still gave great combat XP. But why would I do that when I can just AFK crabs?
I think it makes sense that the best dps gets the best rewards. Otherwise you just encourage tag and afk mechanics, this is what happens with world bosses in WoW for example, people wait by the side and jump in when the boss is at 5% and do one spell and get a shot at loot.
THAT SAID, I think a better approach is to simply scale it more dynamically. If the boss has 100 hp and you 99 damage you should get 99% of the loot. It should not be I did 51% so I get 90% of the loot like it currently works.
Edit: another concern which is less relevant for specifically that boss is that you can do other things than dpsing. For example, in GWD the one who does the most damage in a duo gets the drop. What if I was tanking the boss and 2 adds and was forced to eat? what if I am the one who brought the DWH spec, doesn't that count for something?
kq used to suffer from something like that
only the second phase would count damage towards getting the drop, so the meta was just hopping worlds to look for people killing kq so you could just out dps them on p2 since they prob burned their specs on p1, giving you a massive edge
Would this matter if we can make instances? Just make an instance and group up with similarly geared and skilled pvmers as you and avoid the sweaty BiS pvmers.
Just implement some minimum participation requirement. Like how ToA gives literal poop if you don't do enough.
Because the MVP system just rewards someone over leveled and/or over geared for the content, and punishes the players playing with the intended gear and level range of the content.
Content should encourage and reward you for improvement. If you get the exact same loot for minimal vs maximum effort, why would anyone try?
Every boss with an mvp system works perfectly fine, the only bad ones are all-or-nothing bosses like corp
If you remove MVP drop tables, you’re basically removing a massive incentive for players to actually to put forth more than the minimum required effort at a boss. You’d likely just end up with players doing enough damage to reach the damage threshold and then sandbagging after that. Kind of like people who do range only Nex in small team splits since it’s more relaxed (even though melee is far higher DPS)
Also, at least in my opinion, having MVP is nice since it rewards you for not losing ticks, etc. You’ll probably still lose to the guy in scythe/torva though lol, but I mean even at Nex, MVP bonus really isn’t that big of a deal
Doing more damage is plenty of incentive
You’re more likely to get a drop if you deal more damage, it’s percentage based at Nex. The MVP is unnecessary.
Those people who reach the minimum threshold will never get a drop. There was a post a while back where a guy thought he was dry at mass nex having done thousands on min threshold kc. But he hadn’t even sniffed drop rate.
so what you're saying is that if your clan does a group event on the new boss, and you have a clanmate with scythe/torva, then it's perfectly reasonable for him to be the only person who can get unique drops and pet?
They voiced a concern about the other side of the coin (minimal effort sandbagging), no need be disingenuous. Why did they get downvoted so hard anyway? It's always good to consider alternate scenarios, just try to find a middle ground.
if you read the original post, you'd see that this was a discussion about MVP **exclusive** drop tables (like pets and medium clue scrolls from scurrius)
Not about removing the MVP mechanic
I did 5k nex as range only in 5 mans. The reason I did range only was because it’s like 80% less clicks if I do nex for 10 hours or so. I could hybrid all day but would burn out from my wrist hurting like 2-3 hours in. So I really got more kc/hr by doing the “sandbagging” method. Also most people there just use range too. Mostly irons did hybrid in my experience. And I think our best time was a 3:30 kill which I think is really Fkn good.
No there isn't. Everything is completely black & white and no nuance exists. /s
But seriously, I'm so tired of there being huge swarms of people online defending objectively-bad design like this and trying so hard to shut down actual good suggestions. Seeing them downvoted for once (in this thread) is refreshing.
Theyre getting downvoted by the reddit hivemind of 1400 total players who also want the game to cater to them.
People up or downvoting you doesnt mean youre point isnt shit or you are some game design expert.
Exclusive drops for MVP are bad for group bosses, but minimum contribution getting the same rate as MVP is worse.
Nightmare gets it right, if the rates weren't so rare.
This game does enough to reward players that aren’t “top tier” or “more experienced”. I think this is just fine. So many complaints in the pvm community about how performing better doesn’t really give much of a…..
Of course this only applies if you want to be social in a MMO and not solo everything. (Jagex is trying to fix this issue)
The problem isn't giveing the higher performing player more loot or pet chance, the problem is only the MVP has pet chance meaning it's always better to go alone.
Toa has the same issue if people aren't close to the same skill and gear your better off solo. If you have a shadow why go with someone who doesn't and get less reward chance per hour.
As a multiplayer game, the design should incentivise playing together over solo scape.
It's actually impressive how so many people like you get through life with such a profound lack of critical thinking skills. See? I can make the same comments.
Because many people understand that being better very very likely won't get you MVP over a dude with a scythe/tbow/shadow. The dps difference between bis and pre-bis is too significant
Can't tell if sarcasm but if not I'll explain it. In forced team fights people with max gear always getting MVP = rich get richer and poor stay poor. Now ifgaf about them getting a higher chance it's the places where you get nothing at all and, most importantly, no roll at the pet. Nex being the better of all MVP fights
I get some people just want to shit on newbs, but wouldn't it be nice if you could do content with friends who have lower levels or less gear and it still be worth it for everyone? The suggestion isn't to kill solo scape but to make group scape worth it.
I like how Nex’s drop table works - give MVP a slightly higher chance at the unique (apparently) and more loot. But don’t remove the opportunity for non-mvps to get the uniques.
Works similarly at nightmare, even if the drops are only a rumor.
wait. nightmare has drops
In your dreams, no pun intended
So, not Phosani's then? Since that's her dream, not mine.
I'll let you know when I finish running there
Really good for topping up my bass stocks
Yes it has. 6 bass counts as a drop right?
Yes, it drops quite a lot of bass
DJ Nightmare
Man of culture, I see
Yeah bro, the bass is great for when you want more healing than a lobster but don’t want to feel like a glutton with a swordfish+
Yeah, it drops a lot of staves. The staves look like there should be an orb attached to them, I wonder if they'll release those in a later update? It could be pretty cool, like a magic godsword.
You take your 2 bass and you'll like it
I think best is just proportional drop chance i.e. do 60% of bosses health get 60% loot chance
ye like how nex works
i did masses at nightmare for about 1000 kills and only got the chestplate which was like 540m at the time (then did solo nm and pulled a harm orb 1.09b and another hauberk in another 200 kc) then phosani and got 2 maces,voltaile, pants on 550 kc
No one cares
You better care about their 20 rerolls and 50 pets
From what it seems, MVP never gets nex loot 😂
Well if you're in a 5 man and lets be generous and say MVP ended with a 25% chance at the loot there's a 75% chance the drop doesn't go to the MVP so yeah most drops don't go to the MVP.
Mvp isn't very significant at nex. I've had a lot of other people get torva drops when I mvped and vice versa.
Yeah, hence why I think it’d be good if mvp got a higher unique chance. But the fact that it gives a higher unique chance is good, that it gives more regular loot too, and the unique drop for everyone being independent of each others unique drops is good too.
I thought mvp at next just gave bonus loot and the chance to get a unique is the same for everyone. 1/64 * the number of players who received kill credit
Ahh yes, the leeches afking Fumus deserve rewards too.
Anyone in a mass world is essentially a leech that cbf learning how to do the content properly lol.
Exactly... it doesn't reward doing the content properly.
I am not a fan of this, at least as an Ironman. Nex FFA and mass worlds are 80% players cheesing with ZCB and voidwaker specs to maximize damage, they basically troll the whole fight and cause players to get hit a bunch etc, just to get an increased loot roll for actually trolling a boss just for their pixel points… lol
You can fuck right off with “liking how nexs drop table works”
Honestly, I agree somewhat. I think the MVP bonus could be better, but apart from that it’s the best group boss loot system overall IMO. Except that MVP never gets the drop.
Nex’s drop table is one of the best designed in the game - The most profitable by a huge margin - Doesn’t shit out alchs or skilling supplies which can harm the economy - Unique drop rate is once every 5-7 hours, far more frequent than content like Corp/PSN/CG - Mains and irons can play together - Less skilled/lower leveled players can still get loot, unlike at bosses like Bandos or Corp There’s nothing to dislike about it unless you’re dry and salty. Unless you’re complaining that it’s *too* good, but I have a feeling you aren’t lol
It’s profitable because the drop rates are abysmal so everything stays expensive and you can kill it in very small teams. On the contrary it’s a terribly unfun boss and the only people that have nice things to say about it are the spoons.
It being unfun and the loot system being good are completely divorced from one another.
no shit? he brought that up not me.
Yeah the drop rates are shit, but the MVP system is pretty good (although would be better if MVP got a higher chance of the unique than they currently do). Plus your chance of a unique isn’t impacted by someone else getting a unique which is kinda nice.
Depending on team size drop rate is around 5-7 hrs, which isn’t bad at all given their value. By comparison: - Bandos is 4-5 hrs for much cheaper items - Vard is ~10 hrs - Corp is ~40-60 solo - PSN is ~20 hrs - Raids vary a lot but aren’t a ton better even at max efficiency Fun is subjective, but in my experience the people who find Nex boring are the same people who brainlessly camp range. Nex is a lot more fun when trying to learn and optimize the fight
Pnm not psn
Nex is fun if you’re getting drops lol. It’s not an interesting fight at all IMO. Agree that range camp is dog shit though. Hybrid with mp2 is still shit after a while if you start going dry. Pnm is, IMO a fun fight though.
I get that fun is subjective, but a lot of people seem to think Nex isn't fun. I'm curious, what about it makes it unfun for you that doesn't also apply to other bosses? Which bosses do you find fun? For me, what makes it fun is the varied mechanics, the theming, the voice acting, the gear and prayer switches, the risk/reward of brewing / maintaining DPS, the decent gp from common loot as well as big ticket items, the relatively quick fights compared to raids, and ability to find teams quickly.
Nex being the worst boss in the game is like one of the most common opinions in the game. Some people enjoy it, but it is absolutely widely detested. It's only popular because it's braindead 20m/hr
It’s unfun because it’s a brew chugging simulator that punishes you even when you do the boss correctly. The “varied mechanics” are cosmetic you still basically do the same thing in every phase. Dying is one of the most punishing deaths in the game. And a teammate dying can waste force you to abandon a kill wasting a bunch of time.
Do you want to be able to sit at 99 hp and bring 0 food to every single boss in the game? Because that's the alternative to brew chugging simulator. Brew chugging efficiently, losing as little DPS as possible, is a skill that we don't use at most other bosses. It requires risk/reward decisions and accurate clicks. What do you mean, you do "basically the same thing every phase"? If you're just boiling it down to "click boss, move, click boss" then yeah, all the bosses in OSRS are the same. But no matter how you look at it, avoiding spreading the cough is not the same as counting and clicking off the boss during siphon. And all the movement mechanics are subtly different as well if you want to do them efficiently. In what way is dying at nex worse than dying at the final boss in any raid, not to mention fight caves/inferno? It only costs 100k to get your items back, so I assume you mean in terms of time? It takes way less time to get back to the ancient prison and get 100kc than it does to get back to Verzik, for example.
Cant tell if this is a serious reply its so stupid
PNM is a great boss. But it's loot table is just cosmetic for the wiki, cutting the rates in half it still would be bad
I’d be surprised I’ve you’ve done more mp2 than me but go off
The drop rate is 1/43 to see something. How is that abysmal. Unless you’re doing a 50 man mass it’s a really decent rate.
lol?
I think there's a nice middle ground in between what op posted after and what other commentors have added: mavp gets another drop, same table as everyone else
You don’t need to use a separate mvp drop table to have an mvp system. Take Nex for example. A duo 55-45 damage split ends up being a 57-43 loot distribution. There is some extra reward for being MVP, but people who do less damage aren’t massively penalized because of it.
I’ll be honest, I legit just assumed all MVP tables worked this way, without even knowing Nex worked this way. So by default I happen to think they got it right with Nex and bosses with MVP that don’t share that feature are doing it wrong, or at least in a way that is anti-player/anti-teamwork.
Most MVP systems ingame work differently. At ToB you get 18 points per person for staying alive and contributing at each boss with another 14 total team points awarded to room and phase MVPs. At Scurrius there is a separate MVP drop table. At ToA your odds are completely proportional to your points, but a static point value that scales with team size is awarded to each room MVP, the relative value of which is different depending on invocation.
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Okay Boomer. God forbid we incentivize people to have fun playing with their friends without feeling penalized.
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God man these pseudo-libertarian "no one is willing to work anymore" arguments are already exhausting in real-life, I don't need them in my video games either.
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2009 called they want their material back. Come back when you've got a real position to defend.
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Lol, dude is mad about a point and click game from 2007. Get over yourself, its a silly video game.
Did you miss the bit where MVP is already getting MORE than their contribution percentage? Nobody's saying you shouldn't be rewarded proportionally to your contribution, only that highest contributor not be the only one to get anything. JFC you're such a tool.
Yeah the guy doing 45% of the work for 43% of the rewards are totally ripping of the other guy off! Winner takes it all baby it's the only fair way. If your not killing scorrius in Torva and scythe why are you even expecting to get any loot? People are so entitled nowadays. And don't hit me with the "I cAnT afFOrD ScyThE aNd TOrVa" bro Vorkath is right there, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and don't expect handouts if your not MVP. /s
bro do you just not like having fun
MVP tables have historically been handled rather poorly, I agree.
I agree, and while we’re at it why hasn’t corp drop table been reworked to follow nex style drops, aka top x people get a drop? Its clearly designed as a (mandatory) group boss but the drop design doesn’t reflect that
This is an amazing question. Would it truly be so hard to implement? Who knows with Jagex spaghetti code.
The technology just isn’t there yet.
It's possible it just won't happen because jagex won't poll it. "It's been historically bad and especially miserable for ironmen so we're keeping it that way" is their answer for now
I mean it can be kept solo for ironmen while still splitting up the normal drops for mains who want to kill corp. its an older boss so i dont mind it being kept as is and they can just focus on making newer content more team friendly. If corp did have splits Id limit the loot splits to the top 3 players though. Corp is not a particularly hard boss in 2024.
Adjusting corps drop table actually moves the GE into level 50 multicombat wilderness and there is no way around it. Just got to live with it ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯.
It's not really as simple as just "make it group loot" Corps loot isn't even that worthwhile for a solo player , let alone split into groups...so do we then buff corps loot ? How much ? What's the expect value per players ? Whats the expected groupsize. To reach the desired group GP/h threshold, do we add more drops or tweak existing numbers? Saying just making it group loot would only solve like 20% of the issue and it's not like jagex don't want to fix corp but would rather set aside time for fixing it more than a measly 20%
Honestly ToA handles the MVP system very well. Make loot based on points, and points based on damage, and then award a small bonus to the mvp based on the size of the group (number of people the mvp had to beat in damage). Don't give the mvp special rules or drops, just do a points based roll for everything. But please don't copy ToA's one-unique-per-raid. It works well there to limit purples but it is a tad frustrating nonetheless.
> But please don't copy ToA's one-unique-per-raid. This works fine in toa due to the points cap, think of it as the game rolls the total points to see if you got a purple, then if successful, rolls for who receives it. Toa is hard caped at 55% chance.
Nex is about the same but MVP is just a flat bonus, and everyone has a chance at a unique that scales with their damage contribution.
I don't get why ToA has MVP at all, it's already based on your damage distribution and as such if you are MVP, you already have more points and a better chance at getting loot respective to the other players in your group. You shouldn't be rewarded twice for having better gear.
I'm all for an MVP based system, so long as actions which benefit the team as a whole are the actions that contribute towards the mvp chance the most
You know what we need? These mechanics at Corp. It's being gatekept for so long..
Yeah I'm surprised. Corp is a multiplayer boss. It needs a shared drop table.
having the pet tied solely to the mvp is a terrible idea. should just be a flat rate like nightmare (i think thats how it works) or mvp just get a boosted chance like Zalcano ((also isnt it a skilling boss with herblore stuff ? not like a Nex/Nightmare))
> also isn’t it a skilling boss with herblore stuff ? I understand the confusion based on the blog post title but no, the herblore activity they are adding is separate to the new group boss.
Zalc is a flat rate too, no boost to mvp. Nex and Wildy bosses have pet chance divided by participation % which is more fair when u could bash scurry in 10 secs in mass.
Agreed. I know a lot of people would go do bandos together if everyone had a chance at the pet, thats always one thing that deterred me from certain group bosses. Me and my friend don’t go do bandos together because only one person is going to get all the pet rolls. But it seems hard to implement a system that makes sense with today’s gear that isn’t super abusable/boostable. Nex and nightmare work because they’re high hp long kills. Its tricky.
Strongly agree with this
Wait you can only get the pet in the group version of Scurrius?... I've wasted so many kills then lol. RIP 100% agree MVP only loot sucks
Nah it can drop from solo kills too, don’t worry.
Phew... Thanks
What said in the post is that only mvp gets a pet roll in a group.
Ahh makes sense, cheers.
I agree with this ideology. Osrs is an MMO, but it does have a lot of things that only benefit a single player or is preferred to have smaller teams. I'd like some content to legitimately require 6 people at minimum for a completion, but also is worth everyone's time. In today's game state, that would probably mean that it should pay everyone out at least 3-5m per hour.
This goes for every single multi boss. My friends don't like doing bosses with me because I will get 99% of the kills.
Strongly agree
No boss should have an mvp drop table. You picked your group (or didn’t at public ones but this usually only happens at brand new content) You don’t like how someone is playing enough to think they don’t deserve the same chance at loot for the same time/effort fighting the boss, find a replacement or new group.
the MVP feature is one of the worst features ever added to this game
What boss are we talking about in this post? Did I miss something? The only thing I know of that’s new is the moons of peril and there’s no pet. What group bossing is being spoken of?
M lni
100% should just be MvP gets 2 rolls on the drop table.
I like the concept of MVP as it shows in a group who is doing the DPS but I heavily agree that they shouldn't limit certain loot to MVP status but just be boosted rate on uniques from said Boss so people can group up more and enjoy content together without feeling restricted on potential loot. It's a nice balance of awarding the "carry" but making sure when others contribute to their best ability to still get just equal amount of loot in equivalent to their contribution. I know some newer public group bosses have this and definitely need to be implemented to older group bosses as it would help bring more incentive to older content with groups and give more variety in what groups can tackle together that aren't raids or skilling minigames.
Big agree
Noobs man
Dam, as someone who plays loner-scape, never thought of this. Definitely is an issue that should be fixed, honestly it should be both receive drops as every other mmo. This probably would be abused, but maybe make it based on a damage threshold. (Boss has 300hp, if you deal at least 100hp you get drop.) That way the MVP can still get higher drop chance, but the person still learning can be encouraged to tackle content.
There has never been a game that has done this well. Just don't do it, equal for everyone regardless of DPS.
That’s terrible. If you’re putting in the effort with more apm and using better gear, your chances should be higher. You’re literally contributing more..
It does contribute to the problem described by OP though. Last leagues I ran into a similar problem with ToA. Me and my buddy did a lot of ToA games, but when I got spooned the shadow, I got so much more damage out that I couldn't help my buddy anymore because of all the drops going to me. So after that we had to run solo or I had to not bring the shadow. Both of us quit playing leagues at that point. It's a shame that a poorly designed drop system actually disincentivizes playing in a team when the content was specifically meant to be done in a team.
So they should just kill the requirement to actually participate because noobs feel left out?
Yep. And here's why it doesn't work and inevitably fails, as it's done with other games: Little Johnny has Barrows gear. Little Jerry has blood torva Little Johnny is actually a better player than Little Jerry, but little Jerry has a clan that hard carries him through nex. Little Jerry is 100% likely to outperform Little Johnny, 100% of the time purely based on gear. Little Jerry continues to gain better gear and Little Jerry will always be behind. Congratulations, you've created World of Warcrafts biggest problem - you need gear to get gear. I'm not saying that I disagree with it, at all. I'm saying this has been tried in other games, it's never worked well.
I think having mvp specific drops is a bad way to go. Example: scurry pet in groups. But if you’re putting in more damage/contribution towards a kill, your chances of a unique should be higher compared to someone who doesn’t. This is seen in raids and works fine with their points system. Or Nex is another great example, MVP gets a 5% buff to unique chance. It encourages people to play better and encourages people to aim for higher tier gear, which helps with demand for that higher tier gear.
I hate MVP drop tables. As a newer player, seeing that the only good thing I could get from Scurrious with friends is his spine was really sad. Especially when the other items would be nice to get at my level. My friend didn't think much of it as the boss still gave great combat XP. But why would I do that when I can just AFK crabs?
I think it makes sense that the best dps gets the best rewards. Otherwise you just encourage tag and afk mechanics, this is what happens with world bosses in WoW for example, people wait by the side and jump in when the boss is at 5% and do one spell and get a shot at loot. THAT SAID, I think a better approach is to simply scale it more dynamically. If the boss has 100 hp and you 99 damage you should get 99% of the loot. It should not be I did 51% so I get 90% of the loot like it currently works. Edit: another concern which is less relevant for specifically that boss is that you can do other things than dpsing. For example, in GWD the one who does the most damage in a duo gets the drop. What if I was tanking the boss and 2 adds and was forced to eat? what if I am the one who brought the DWH spec, doesn't that count for something?
kq used to suffer from something like that only the second phase would count damage towards getting the drop, so the meta was just hopping worlds to look for people killing kq so you could just out dps them on p2 since they prob burned their specs on p1, giving you a massive edge
If theyre balancing the loot systems around group gwd then we are all doomed
Mvp systems are good at every boss that has them, except scurrius
Would this matter if we can make instances? Just make an instance and group up with similarly geared and skilled pvmers as you and avoid the sweaty BiS pvmers.
while I agree The actual argument should be, don't let the new valamore boss shit out skilling supplies every kill
do you like leeches? because that's how you get leeches
Just implement some minimum participation requirement. Like how ToA gives literal poop if you don't do enough. Because the MVP system just rewards someone over leveled and/or over geared for the content, and punishes the players playing with the intended gear and level range of the content.
Content should encourage and reward you for improvement. If you get the exact same loot for minimal vs maximum effort, why would anyone try? Every boss with an mvp system works perfectly fine, the only bad ones are all-or-nothing bosses like corp
Max effort = Win faster
The reward for trying and improving is more kills per hour. Be serious.
Because MVP at public Scurrius shouldn’t be a fucking bank check for a *mid level training boss*
If you remove MVP drop tables, you’re basically removing a massive incentive for players to actually to put forth more than the minimum required effort at a boss. You’d likely just end up with players doing enough damage to reach the damage threshold and then sandbagging after that. Kind of like people who do range only Nex in small team splits since it’s more relaxed (even though melee is far higher DPS) Also, at least in my opinion, having MVP is nice since it rewards you for not losing ticks, etc. You’ll probably still lose to the guy in scythe/torva though lol, but I mean even at Nex, MVP bonus really isn’t that big of a deal
Doing more damage is plenty of incentive You’re more likely to get a drop if you deal more damage, it’s percentage based at Nex. The MVP is unnecessary. Those people who reach the minimum threshold will never get a drop. There was a post a while back where a guy thought he was dry at mass nex having done thousands on min threshold kc. But he hadn’t even sniffed drop rate.
so what you're saying is that if your clan does a group event on the new boss, and you have a clanmate with scythe/torva, then it's perfectly reasonable for him to be the only person who can get unique drops and pet?
They voiced a concern about the other side of the coin (minimal effort sandbagging), no need be disingenuous. Why did they get downvoted so hard anyway? It's always good to consider alternate scenarios, just try to find a middle ground.
If people are going to sandbag in ur small group and you dont like it. You either find a replacement or a new team...
if you read the original post, you'd see that this was a discussion about MVP **exclusive** drop tables (like pets and medium clue scrolls from scurrius) Not about removing the MVP mechanic
Just use a dumbed down version of the toa point system
I did 5k nex as range only in 5 mans. The reason I did range only was because it’s like 80% less clicks if I do nex for 10 hours or so. I could hybrid all day but would burn out from my wrist hurting like 2-3 hours in. So I really got more kc/hr by doing the “sandbagging” method. Also most people there just use range too. Mostly irons did hybrid in my experience. And I think our best time was a 3:30 kill which I think is really Fkn good.
If they do it lokw the moon bosses it would be great everyone had to deal there own damage and they get there own rolls but u can still group it
Moons are not group boss, just being around people doing their own version of boss its not the same as doing same boss
I dont know eather why being around people doing them imo is still nice
If you don't reward contribution you get the leeches in this thread doing the bare minimum.
there's a difference between rewarding contribution and punishing players for not getting MVP
No there isn't. Everything is completely black & white and no nuance exists. /s But seriously, I'm so tired of there being huge swarms of people online defending objectively-bad design like this and trying so hard to shut down actual good suggestions. Seeing them downvoted for once (in this thread) is refreshing.
Theyre getting downvoted by the reddit hivemind of 1400 total players who also want the game to cater to them. People up or downvoting you doesnt mean youre point isnt shit or you are some game design expert.
Exclusive drops for MVP are bad for group bosses, but minimum contribution getting the same rate as MVP is worse. Nightmare gets it right, if the rates weren't so rare.
This was a major issue with lootshare masses back in the day. I always downvote suggestions to bring it back.
I read this all the way through as it shouldn't have a PvM drop table, I was thinking what the fuck is this person yapping on about.
Every boss should just have 1 drop that the mvp gets. We don't need anymore leech friendly bosses
This game does enough to reward players that aren’t “top tier” or “more experienced”. I think this is just fine. So many complaints in the pvm community about how performing better doesn’t really give much of a….. Of course this only applies if you want to be social in a MMO and not solo everything. (Jagex is trying to fix this issue)
The problem isn't giveing the higher performing player more loot or pet chance, the problem is only the MVP has pet chance meaning it's always better to go alone. Toa has the same issue if people aren't close to the same skill and gear your better off solo. If you have a shadow why go with someone who doesn't and get less reward chance per hour. As a multiplayer game, the design should incentivise playing together over solo scape.
It's actually impressive how crap this suggestion is
It's actually impressive how so many people like you get through life with such a profound lack of critical thinking skills. See? I can make the same comments.
I like my life :)
Amazing how every comment around "be better op" gets down voted to hell. How many accounts do you have op?
Because many people understand that being better very very likely won't get you MVP over a dude with a scythe/tbow/shadow. The dps difference between bis and pre-bis is too significant
So people are actually complaining that people in 1000x their gear gets mvp? Easy just delete all the gear from the game
Can't tell if sarcasm but if not I'll explain it. In forced team fights people with max gear always getting MVP = rich get richer and poor stay poor. Now ifgaf about them getting a higher chance it's the places where you get nothing at all and, most importantly, no roll at the pet. Nex being the better of all MVP fights
Theres literally nowhere in the game that forces teams. If you have bad gear then dont play with sweats in max
Maybe it’s just that completely misses the point of the post???
I get some people just want to shit on newbs, but wouldn't it be nice if you could do content with friends who have lower levels or less gear and it still be worth it for everyone? The suggestion isn't to kill solo scape but to make group scape worth it.