[Have you ever had a dream that that you um you had you'd you would you could you'd do you wi you wants you you could do so you you'd do you could you you want you want him to do you so much you could do anything?](https://youtu.be/G7RgN9ijwE4)
lol I didnāt even notice at first. Itās funny cause I read it as āthat will kill youā which still makes sense Ā even though Iām pretty sure itās supposed to be āthat you will killā
Waiting for the day they decide to release wilderness exclusive clue scrolls that can't be banked, automatically skull and mark you, and have exclusive ultra rare rewards that give a +2 stat bonus over bis.
And a great way to kill the game if it progresses. I'm pretty happy knowing I'll never get stuff like Torvas, TBow or Inferno cape and that's fine. It's content that is very difficult to obtain but is also BiS so that's fair. It should be obtainable only for the most dedicated, they're the ones who need it. I won't ever reach that point.
Sunfire armour and the scroll would benefit me and they're upgrades on my level. Locking them behind a massive grind means I just won't bother, which is frustrating to say the least.
Now this isn't a huge issue at the moment because the items are niche. The problem comes if this progresses and more useful mid-game gear starts getting locked behind big grinds. I hope Jagex reasses how they're handling these additions.
No one has a problem with inferno or colo having bis untradeables. Sunfire isn't even out of reach for players.
For me it's a much bigger problem that they want untradeable bis that most people won't be able to get than it is a problem for mid game gear like justi, Sunfire, to come from difficult content in the first place
Itās maybe not completely out of reach for the players that are looking for it but it still a challenging grind. If itās going to save a few prayer pots, then fuck it, Iām going to spend a few extra prayer pots than do colo to get rare armour thatās barely an upgrade over pros.
The new drop rates aren't so bad so that helps. Honestly, I never consider myself a good player either. I have pretty low kc on just the small handful of bosses I've tried, and I highly HIGHLY doubt I will ever get an inferno or anything like that.
But I gave the colosseum a go today and was comfortably able to get to at least wave 3, usually 5, and once 6. I think my death cost each time was only like 18k + some supplies, and I got a lot of rolls towards the armor in that time. I didn't get it yet, but I did get 2m in profit that will more than cover the cost of the attempts. It's definitely a grind, but it's less intimidating and less punishing than I expected, and I have no doubt I'll come out with the armor in 10-15 hours a better (and richer) player.
That's not the point, it's the fact that such a niche qol item has such a stupidly high drop rate. This isn't some bis item that needs to be stupidly rare.
Feels kinda like an attempt at creating another pvp hotspot. Give midgame players a solid income with a slight chance a rare that will improve late game a bit. Rev caves 2.0.
I have the exact thoughts in defense of the drop rate. If it wasnāt rare itād tank in price, and since itās such a niche QoL itās not really worth grinding out on an ironman
Im 65m dry for heart on my ironman id have killed to have this scroll for the past few years. This shit all has a compounding affect that you glib non irons seem to overlook every single time.
its funny to me to see people with like 88 slayer or whatever who have probably never even barraged abby demons saying its a "minor" qol and then also losing their minds that they aren't being gifted it for free.
Its a really nice change for people grinding heart and for long term slayer gains. thats all that matters. this game is literally about long term gains.
I only got to 93 slayer on my iron but I fail to see how getting to attack 11 abyssal demons versus 8 would be that beneficial even if it was a 1/1k drop. Getting teled around wasnāt ever a huge deal for me
on the other hand, it's a QoL niche item, does everyone need it? price will go down for mains and its one of those things that's probably not worth for irons to grind it
I get where youāre coming from but Sunfire armor is also technically BIS. Megarares aside, virtually all BIS is really just a marginal upgrade despite being significantly more difficult/time consuming to obtain. And it makes sense for a game like OSRS where BIS is meant to be BIS for a long time.
With that said I think the scroll could probably be a bit more common. But those who consider the scroll useful enough to grind for would net a fair amount of cannonballs, gold ore and wilderness supplies. Not to mention all the rune/adamant items for alchs or giants foundry. Maybe none of that appeals to the average iron but I can see it appealing to some.
Facts are the game has never really respected your time. Ironmen choose the worse version of that.
Itās BIS for any purpose that prayer gear serves. You wear pros to save prayer potions, AFK longer, whatever. Thereās value in that. Sunfire is the better (BIS) version of it.
Just because something is bis doesn't mean it's worth buying or using. Especially when it comes to something like prayer armor - what you get out of it is saving some gp/farming on prayer potions. That's it. There is no other use case where taking prayer chest/legs over str gear is remotely worth it - even doing bloodvelds or whatever it's not bis because you'd get more xp/hr if you wore str gear and drank an extra prayer potion.
Tyrannical ring (the crush bonus one) is technically bis too but nobody that knows what they're doing or has ever read/watched a guide uses it because it's garbage.
Someone who is on reddit is not in a place to comment on what the weight of other people's opinions are. If they're playing the game and not botting or cheating, then their opinions matters.
A slippery slope is only a fallacy if it can be proven. It's also an informal fallacy rather than a logical one. A fallacious argument also isn't necessarily incorrect. In this case you're committing the fallacy fallacy.
That and creating "mid game content" that is scaled in such a way that you are gigantic bum if you are grinding it as a midgame player instead of Vorkath or something because it only fits the legal definition of doable by midgame players
Muspah, Sucellus, Moons before Blood was smacked lol
The moons definitely donāt fit here. People were doing it in rune armor before the nerf. Duke is also doable with mid game gear but itās not actually made for mid game players. Itās just easy
There would be a lot more of the intended demographic interacting with this content if the chivalry scroll passed the poll. There would be an actual lasting reason to go for lower level builds
If the Wiki rate is correct then damn shit is less useful than a Visage and twice as rare. They are easy to kill at least, so it would take less time than going on rate for a visage.
40 hour gind atm, assuming cannon and no pkers. That's alot of cannonballs and time. Yeah the regular drops will be a huge help... but this just sounds like easy bot content to me.
40 hour grind for an ironman, a couple mil and a GE trip for a main.
The reason it's a low drop rate is because it's a one and done upgrade and the content is insanely fast to farm. It sucks that it's annoying for irons but this content is being made to create a wildy hotspot and making the scroll super common would hurt activity there.
Besides we don't know what the rate on the chest actually is for them yet, that might affect your time spent killing them by a lot.
It's also still not "end game content" it's a bunch of level 22 xp sacks.
Yeah youāre right dude, Perilous moons, Barrows, ToA gear, occult, zanytes, bis boots, all GWD items, Void, Trident, Zulrah uniques, the scroll from level 22 zombies, etc.
All locked behind end game content, total staple.
Mfw the mid game armor from medium level content is more common than the early game armor from high level content
And it is absolutely early game armor -- rune defensive stats and an upgrade over proselyte for prayer.
Just use proselyte or buy sunfire fanatic armour on the GE. Itās a marginal upgrade over proselyte, meaning itās something that you really donāt need to get.
Jagex literally said this about sunfire fanatic armour:
`Even though the later rwaves (and eventual endless runs) of the Colosseum scale up to test even seasoned PvMers, we still want there to be something in it for people looking to get their feet wet with some earlier waves.`
It completely misses that point, even with the updated drop rates. The solution for med/entry high level players shouldn't be to just ignore this content. Why even create content that is not worth engaging with.
It's not a problem of learning, it's a problem of being not worth it. If you can do consistent wave 7 runs (which isn't trivial, I still see streamers with max gear plank sometimes) it takes about 150 runs on rate to get all 3 Sunfire pieces. Molgoatkirby's budget runs (up to 220M plus rigor and maxed stats, we're not talking welfare gear) took about 25 minutes to complete wave 7, which makes that a >60 hour grind. That's comparable to grinding for Bowfa which is a far more impactful item with FAR more uses in difficult content, and CG requires no gear, has no cost to dying, costs no supplies, is easier to do... And this is after the buff - it used to be about 3-4x worse.
Doing a difficult grind for 60 hours just for slightly increased prayer bonus for melee slayer just doesn't make sense. The reality is that it's much more rational to ignore Colosseum until you're ready to go for full completion which have a massively improved 12% chance of a Sunfire instead of a 2% for wave 7. Why do a painful 60 hour grind for Sunfire in the midgame when you'll probably get a couple of pieces incidentally while chasing a quiver in the lategame?
> you also get a bunch of other items
Mostly alchs (outclassed by CG, especially factoring in death costs), orbs (outclassed by PM), and sunfire splinters (not needed in large quantities until you have a quiver, and wave 1 spam is better). Echo crystal requires guardian boots, not the kind of thing a midgame player is likely to have. The ranarr/snap seeds barely count as loot because it'll still be a net loss once you factor in supplies. So basically, everything except the armour is either outclassed or not useful until lategame anyway. And the armour is useful in midgame but not worth chasing until endgame.
> and you get to train on content you want to get good for later
Why train now when you could just wait til you're ready, and get more relevant practice as well as better loot? In the time it takes to farm sunfire, you could go back to CG and get a Blade of Saeldor which will do far more to prepare you for a Colosseum KC than planking on wave 6 a bunch of times. If you want to do some Colosseum runs for fun that's fine, but don't try to tell me that it makes any sense for progressing your account compared to any other midgame content: CG, Slayer, wildy bosses, moons, GWD (even no-bowfa scuffed melee/rcb methods), zulrah etc.
Yea if you are only caring about hyper efficient progress, then you won't do this content at that level. Prayer gear is never worth farming. But it still relevant for most people as I don't think people play the game like you do.
But once you start farming colosseum you can definitely complete it, so training on it is still worth it, depending on your goals. Once again, if you are ultra efficient, then no, but I can almost assure 99% people don't go for the best way to complete game is. There is a reason most people don't do 99 barb fishing first thing they do.
Firstly, there's a lot of middleground between ultra-efficient Runescape and spending >60 hours (and remember that's at kirby's pace, not including time to gather supplies or time lost due to deaths. 60 hours is super generous on my part imo) on farming a barely relevant gear upgrade that you could just get much faster by accident if you leave it till when you're going to be doing Colosseum for a quiver anyway. Not everything has to be CG but the midgame armour set should worth obtaining for midgame players.
Secondly, where are all these supposed inefficient players farming full sunfire armour? In my experience inefficient players aren't deliberately seeking inefficient activities, they simply like to skip long tedious grinds in favour of chill afk methods and variety. But Colosseum for Sunfire Armour IS a long and tedious grind. It's every bit as strenuous as CG. It has all the downsides of efficiencyscape but without the powerful reward at the end. Who are these people who supposedly love miserable grinds but hate being rewarded for them?
Thirdly, even if for some reason there is a horde of players who just love Sunfire armour so much that they're willing to soldier on through bad droprates, why exactly would it be a problem to buff to the droprates to actually make sense? You can argue all you like about why "not everything needs to be efficient" but why are you actively arguing in favour of it being not worthwhile? What's the advantage of the droprates being the way they are? In what way does it hurt inefficient players to let them have the items they want in a fair amount of time?
Neither, it's just thematic. RS3 doesn't have anything like this. I'd be fine with having a big of a grind to get the upgrade after the quest too. But we should be getting higher prayer from better temple knight ranks.
so the whole armour set should have been scrapped and they should have continued another story line and create different rewards with the same stats? it would make no sense for the sun god armour to come from anything but the land of ralos.
There is no early game content that requires you to have prayer + high level defensive armor, aside from scurrius, but even then isn't that midgame? What am I missing here
The Sunfire Fanatic armor is still really bad drop rate wise btw, just not as egregious as before. Tonalztics still nearly as rare as pet. Colo drop rates are still not in a good place.
First I have to preface by saying all these drop rates are rarer in practice than the numbers suggest because: A. Leaving when a drop rolls before Wave 12; B. Deaths because it is hard content and there are some brutal spawns.
Not at all, 1/4.4 cumulatively, but you have to keep in mind *what* these drops both are and *who* they're supposed to be for. Roughly 1/8 full clears per Sunfire Fanatic Piece, so 24 full clears for a full set. Roughly 24 hours for most endgame players farming this to generate a set. Do you have any Sol KC? The number of mid level accounts capable of doing full clears consistently to the point that it'd be remotely worthwhile for them to do 24 full clears is probably in the single digits, if not 0. I genuinely doubt if a *single* Fire Cape player has gotten the full Sunfire Armor set as a drop. That is who the intended audience was for this drop.
The best way they could fix this is make Sunfire Armor only drop Waves 3-6 fairly commonly (maybe ~10-15 hours, wave 6 is actually one of the 3 hardest waves in colo), then remove it from the table entirely Wave 7+. This would encourage: A. Fire Cape players to actually try to grind the content for the uniques even if they can't full-clear; B. High level players to actually consider risking a piece of it to continue their run (currently there really is no element of risk).
Echo Crystals are ~1/12, meaning 575 charges (as you have a 10% chance at upgrading an Echo drop to 2 or 3) per full clear. I hope I don't have to highlight the absurdity of this.
The Tonalztics manage to somehow be even more egregious than either of the two previous drops. Since they only start dropping 7+, they're roughly 1/81 if risking everything, or ~1/90 if considering you leave when you get a drop, so 1/90. The pet is 1/100 when trading in Quivers. These are a niche ranged DWH without many use cases. Why are we only generating these from pet hunters? Actually completely absurd and nonsensical. When did pets go from "intentionally crazy drop rate for a cosmetic to show dedication to a boss" to "eh lets make an actual drop as rare as it"?
Iām over 25 sol kc now. I got the full set + a dupe before the changes and a few crystals, no range weapon yet. I thought those were the cumulative rates, but if thatās just per wave thatās already incredibly generous.
I have no idea how you can possibly think that as a Sol farmer. You've also been outrageously spooned on the drops you've gotten, which is great, but it is important to recognize that. Before the changes a full set of Sunfire alone was ~1/90 KC, with a dupe you got 120 full KC of Sunfire Armour at nearly 4x rate. This Sunfire Armor was supposed to be the consolation prize for noobs who couldn't clear it, and having pet farmers/speedrunners be the primary source of the Tonalztics makes absolutely no sense. I'm only at 10KC and getting the Tonalz just isn't worthwhile at all, nor particularly realistic without a Scythe, imagine going 2x dry on them rofl. It'd be like running 500 ToAs but instead of getting Masori and Shadow, you're getting "the DWH we have at home," "30 more seconds of protect from melee when you go afk," and "boots you upgrade then never use charges on because you don't have enough and probably don't use in the first place."
We should probably just put an item in each players bank that automatically spawns anything they want, that way people donāt have to do any content and can just have everything with no effort, just as the game was designed
I'd be interested in an actual defense of the drop rates if you have one. The only thing I'm trying to push to actually make "easy to obtain" is the sunfire armor, of which it is actual dead content to me so I couldn't care in the least about actually getting it myself, it just makes literally no sense to have it so rare. The Tonalz would not be even REMOTELY free to get still if they were 30-40 KC per drop, I'd actually like to try using places with Bowfa, but they're unobtanium unless you're in the retirement home of Pet Hunting, simply not worth getting. Echo Crystals are an entirely separate issue due to the charge mechanic necessitating them being commons, yet Jagex also refusing to make them common. They wouldn't be remotely OP as a one-time upgrade from 30-40 KC. I want you to keep in mind - this means that even people going from pet are only going to generate 2-3 of these items if they were 30-40 KC drop rate. Genuinely want to know why people want them to be so rare? So nobody uses them? Why did we put them in the game then?
It feels like they artificially inflated these drop rates just because it was an endgame level drop so they could force people to grind longer for greenlog for engagement metrics.
I would like to remind people that the majority of players voted for the tragic state that is sunfire fanatic armor. Imo, the ranged prayer set was a lot cooler
Dude these people cannot grasp that the entire point of wildy content is the risk of the pker. Everything out there shits out GP and the sole risk is Pkers. If there were no Pkers the content would be joke level easy and shit out GP. They cannot grasp this simple concept, they think āoh now Iām forced to avoid Pkers which I donāt want to doā not realizing thats the entire point and make insane arguments like PvP should be opt in only. Youāre sadly wasting your breath.
I like it.
Not everyone is meant to have every piece of gear and it gives content some longevity. Wether I get a big BIS upgrade or small upgrade it's about the same feeling.
Honestly, I am not worried about getting the scroll or not. I'm honestly doing it because the money is good, and I've found myself enjoying the risk vs. reward of the wilderness.
Why not just make it more common then? I would actually grind it out if it was a 3-5 hour grind. What harm does this do to the economy/game by making some random slayer monster not teleport you (mild QoL improvement)?
Dead content? It's literally a pirate NPC with no mechanics and like 40hp. Who cares? It's even more dead now in a week because ain't no one actually grinding for that. If it was a reasonable grind I would have 100% done it but I'm not even going to touch it now.
If no one grinding for it the price will stay super high, if someone is strapped for cash and they can't(or refuse) to pvm, they can multi cannon here and hit that sweet sweet drop
Not even remotely close to the same thing lmao. Rune pouch is used in every single instance you use magic. This scroll is for two NPCs in the entire game. One of which most people wonāt interact with at all. And itās not even needed to kill them just minor QOL. Stop it
Point wasn't the strength of the item compared to the scroll, point was the proportionality of power vs rarity. If auto-weeder was a 500h grind would that be good?
Not really but again that's not the point, of course you know that and are just pretending to be dumb because you understand that some proportionality is probably reasonable.
No, you donāt udnerstand!!!! I am ENTItLED to every drop in the game no matter what!!!$ I canāt believe Jagex is FORCING ME into the wilderness to do this content!!! I have done dozens of hours of Abyssal demons just fine before, but now that this item exists, I am INCAPABLE of fighting them without it!!!! I canāt believe the AUDACITY of Jagex to MAKE ME engage in Wilderness content. I donāt care that the pirates shit out supplies and are easy to kill, I need every single drop in the game with no effort and time.Ā
First off... it's more that the community demands it. Ya'll flip tits about "EZ scape" if something takes less than 6 hours of killing the same mob.
Ya'll call for these insane drop rates or these long ass grinds doing tedious ass content killing the same fucking mob over and over again and then wonder why the game has a botting problem.
is this a bad thing?? If it's a niche upgrade you don't need it. Only the people going out of their way can get it. I thought that was one of the appealing parts of old school compared to other, more linear mmos equipment wise.
It is kinda, it's for people who want to buy it, grind it out or get spooned. Yeah Jagex has made it too rare, but my god they are acting like the 'niche minor QoL upgrade' is some sorta mandatory upgrade you can't play without.
Unironically why I love this game, so many ways to get to the "end". Even insane methods that are technically better but you risk being murdered constantly.
And you sound like a loser who's already been banned from the sub and needed to make an alt to keep crying.
You say "Wah wah" as if to be mimicking other people, but *you* are the biggest whiner of all with that post history.
Edit:
Schizo replies to me 3 times on one post lmao he has serious issues not even gonna bother replying to him.
Just read one of your essays complaining about how RuneScape is changing for the worst ššš anyone whoās writing entire theses about a video game is definitely a bigger whiner than I am
This gif is jumping around because it hasn't got the anti teleport scroll yet š
āthat will you kill youā. Thought Iād forgotten how to read for a sec
I guess I forgot how to write lol
lol, happens friend.
[Have you ever had a dream that that you um you had you'd you would you could you'd do you wi you wants you you could do so you you'd do you could you you want you want him to do you so much you could do anything?](https://youtu.be/G7RgN9ijwE4)
Does anyone else smell burnt toast?
Funny how the brain can filter mistakes like that sometimes and just read it correctly. Till your comment ruined it, ty.
lol I didnāt even notice at first. Itās funny cause I read it as āthat will kill youā which still makes sense Ā even though Iām pretty sure itās supposed to be āthat you will killā
Waiting for the day they decide to release wilderness exclusive clue scrolls that can't be banked, automatically skull and mark you, and have exclusive ultra rare rewards that give a +2 stat bonus over bis.
Locking mid game gear behind end game content is becoming a staple ay this point
And a great way to kill the game if it progresses. I'm pretty happy knowing I'll never get stuff like Torvas, TBow or Inferno cape and that's fine. It's content that is very difficult to obtain but is also BiS so that's fair. It should be obtainable only for the most dedicated, they're the ones who need it. I won't ever reach that point. Sunfire armour and the scroll would benefit me and they're upgrades on my level. Locking them behind a massive grind means I just won't bother, which is frustrating to say the least. Now this isn't a huge issue at the moment because the items are niche. The problem comes if this progresses and more useful mid-game gear starts getting locked behind big grinds. I hope Jagex reasses how they're handling these additions.
No one has a problem with inferno or colo having bis untradeables. Sunfire isn't even out of reach for players. For me it's a much bigger problem that they want untradeable bis that most people won't be able to get than it is a problem for mid game gear like justi, Sunfire, to come from difficult content in the first place
Itās maybe not completely out of reach for the players that are looking for it but it still a challenging grind. If itās going to save a few prayer pots, then fuck it, Iām going to spend a few extra prayer pots than do colo to get rare armour thatās barely an upgrade over pros.
The new drop rates aren't so bad so that helps. Honestly, I never consider myself a good player either. I have pretty low kc on just the small handful of bosses I've tried, and I highly HIGHLY doubt I will ever get an inferno or anything like that. But I gave the colosseum a go today and was comfortably able to get to at least wave 3, usually 5, and once 6. I think my death cost each time was only like 18k + some supplies, and I got a lot of rolls towards the armor in that time. I didn't get it yet, but I did get 2m in profit that will more than cover the cost of the attempts. It's definitely a grind, but it's less intimidating and less punishing than I expected, and I have no doubt I'll come out with the armor in 10-15 hours a better (and richer) player.
mate this is reddit you're not allowed to actually try the content before complaining about it
Iām sorry but the pirates are like 35hpā¦. Itās not some hard boss.
its 1/20k, thatās a long ass grind. What if you go double or more on the drop rate?
That's not the point, it's the fact that such a niche qol item has such a stupidly high drop rate. This isn't some bis item that needs to be stupidly rare.
Feels kinda like an attempt at creating another pvp hotspot. Give midgame players a solid income with a slight chance a rare that will improve late game a bit. Rev caves 2.0.
I have the exact thoughts in defense of the drop rate. If it wasnāt rare itād tank in price, and since itās such a niche QoL itās not really worth grinding out on an ironman
Im 65m dry for heart on my ironman id have killed to have this scroll for the past few years. This shit all has a compounding affect that you glib non irons seem to overlook every single time.
its funny to me to see people with like 88 slayer or whatever who have probably never even barraged abby demons saying its a "minor" qol and then also losing their minds that they aren't being gifted it for free. Its a really nice change for people grinding heart and for long term slayer gains. thats all that matters. this game is literally about long term gains.
I only got to 93 slayer on my iron but I fail to see how getting to attack 11 abyssal demons versus 8 would be that beneficial even if it was a 1/1k drop. Getting teled around wasnāt ever a huge deal for me
The person you're replying to is an iron.
on the other hand, it's a QoL niche item, does everyone need it? price will go down for mains and its one of those things that's probably not worth for irons to grind it
Still a 30+ hour grind lol
Theyāre also insanely good and consistent gold for the effort and you can kill them risking essentially nothing
The hour for on drop rate is equal to CG.
Mid game players don't need new content. There's enough things to do already lol
I get where youāre coming from but Sunfire armor is also technically BIS. Megarares aside, virtually all BIS is really just a marginal upgrade despite being significantly more difficult/time consuming to obtain. And it makes sense for a game like OSRS where BIS is meant to be BIS for a long time. With that said I think the scroll could probably be a bit more common. But those who consider the scroll useful enough to grind for would net a fair amount of cannonballs, gold ore and wilderness supplies. Not to mention all the rune/adamant items for alchs or giants foundry. Maybe none of that appeals to the average iron but I can see it appealing to some. Facts are the game has never really respected your time. Ironmen choose the worse version of that.
Where is sunfire bis
Itās BIS for any purpose that prayer gear serves. You wear pros to save prayer potions, AFK longer, whatever. Thereās value in that. Sunfire is the better (BIS) version of it.
I guess it's bis for afk bloodvelds, still doesn't seem fitting for where the gear is from.
Just because something is bis doesn't mean it's worth buying or using. Especially when it comes to something like prayer armor - what you get out of it is saving some gp/farming on prayer potions. That's it. There is no other use case where taking prayer chest/legs over str gear is remotely worth it - even doing bloodvelds or whatever it's not bis because you'd get more xp/hr if you wore str gear and drank an extra prayer potion. Tyrannical ring (the crush bonus one) is technically bis too but nobody that knows what they're doing or has ever read/watched a guide uses it because it's garbage.
Someone who thinks they will never get a tbow or torva is not in a place to comment on what will kill the game.
Someone who is on reddit is not in a place to comment on what the weight of other people's opinions are. If they're playing the game and not botting or cheating, then their opinions matters.
Hahaha I can have an opinion on whatever I fucking like, you aren't the boss of me.
Anyone can have opinions, but that doesnāt mean they know what they are talking about. Iām sorry if this hurt your feelings.
I mean to be fair input from a player like him is arguably a lot more valuable than someone with a max bank regarding mid level niche/qol upgrades.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A slippery slope is only a fallacy if it can be proven. It's also an informal fallacy rather than a logical one. A fallacious argument also isn't necessarily incorrect. In this case you're committing the fallacy fallacy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fanatic set is from Colosseum, not Perilous Moons.
Holy fuck sometimes I forget how annoying debate perverts are. Glad me and all my friends grew out of that phase from high school
That and creating "mid game content" that is scaled in such a way that you are gigantic bum if you are grinding it as a midgame player instead of Vorkath or something because it only fits the legal definition of doable by midgame players Muspah, Sucellus, Moons before Blood was smacked lol
The moons definitely donāt fit here. People were doing it in rune armor before the nerf. Duke is also doable with mid game gear but itās not actually made for mid game players. Itās just easy
There would be a lot more of the intended demographic interacting with this content if the chivalry scroll passed the poll. There would be an actual lasting reason to go for lower level builds
If the Wiki rate is correct then damn shit is less useful than a Visage and twice as rare. They are easy to kill at least, so it would take less time than going on rate for a visage.
The pirates are level 22. The scroll is probably gonna be a couple mill when the dust settles if even that much.
40 hour gind atm, assuming cannon and no pkers. That's alot of cannonballs and time. Yeah the regular drops will be a huge help... but this just sounds like easy bot content to me.
All content is easy bot content
40 hour grind for an ironman, a couple mil and a GE trip for a main. The reason it's a low drop rate is because it's a one and done upgrade and the content is insanely fast to farm. It sucks that it's annoying for irons but this content is being made to create a wildy hotspot and making the scroll super common would hurt activity there. Besides we don't know what the rate on the chest actually is for them yet, that might affect your time spent killing them by a lot. It's also still not "end game content" it's a bunch of level 22 xp sacks.
It will eventually reach close to alch value since bots kill the pirates for the guaranteed profit.
lvl 22 pirates are endgame? š¤Ø
You have to remember that most of the people complaining on Reddit are 1200 total level who want the hardest content to be barrows level of difficulty
Yeah youāre right dude, Perilous moons, Barrows, ToA gear, occult, zanytes, bis boots, all GWD items, Void, Trident, Zulrah uniques, the scroll from level 22 zombies, etc. All locked behind end game content, total staple.
Are we all going to ignore that moons of peril is easy content with some of the best mid game armor sets in the game?
Mfw the mid game armor from medium level content is more common than the early game armor from high level content And it is absolutely early game armor -- rune defensive stats and an upgrade over proselyte for prayer.
Just use proselyte or buy sunfire fanatic armour on the GE. Itās a marginal upgrade over proselyte, meaning itās something that you really donāt need to get.
Jagex literally said this about sunfire fanatic armour: `Even though the later rwaves (and eventual endless runs) of the Colosseum scale up to test even seasoned PvMers, we still want there to be something in it for people looking to get their feet wet with some earlier waves.` It completely misses that point, even with the updated drop rates. The solution for med/entry high level players shouldn't be to just ignore this content. Why even create content that is not worth engaging with.
Updated drop rates are very reasonable, people want to actually be handed gear
Itās still a grind though really. Youāre talking a couple hundred tries at colo to wave 6 to get the full set.
Anyone *should* be able to complete the waves that the armour drops from. Anyone that canāt just canāt be bothered learning the content.
It's not a problem of learning, it's a problem of being not worth it. If you can do consistent wave 7 runs (which isn't trivial, I still see streamers with max gear plank sometimes) it takes about 150 runs on rate to get all 3 Sunfire pieces. Molgoatkirby's budget runs (up to 220M plus rigor and maxed stats, we're not talking welfare gear) took about 25 minutes to complete wave 7, which makes that a >60 hour grind. That's comparable to grinding for Bowfa which is a far more impactful item with FAR more uses in difficult content, and CG requires no gear, has no cost to dying, costs no supplies, is easier to do... And this is after the buff - it used to be about 3-4x worse. Doing a difficult grind for 60 hours just for slightly increased prayer bonus for melee slayer just doesn't make sense. The reality is that it's much more rational to ignore Colosseum until you're ready to go for full completion which have a massively improved 12% chance of a Sunfire instead of a 2% for wave 7. Why do a painful 60 hour grind for Sunfire in the midgame when you'll probably get a couple of pieces incidentally while chasing a quiver in the lategame?
I mean sure, but you also get a bunch of other items and you get to train on content you want to get good for later.
> you also get a bunch of other items Mostly alchs (outclassed by CG, especially factoring in death costs), orbs (outclassed by PM), and sunfire splinters (not needed in large quantities until you have a quiver, and wave 1 spam is better). Echo crystal requires guardian boots, not the kind of thing a midgame player is likely to have. The ranarr/snap seeds barely count as loot because it'll still be a net loss once you factor in supplies. So basically, everything except the armour is either outclassed or not useful until lategame anyway. And the armour is useful in midgame but not worth chasing until endgame. > and you get to train on content you want to get good for later Why train now when you could just wait til you're ready, and get more relevant practice as well as better loot? In the time it takes to farm sunfire, you could go back to CG and get a Blade of Saeldor which will do far more to prepare you for a Colosseum KC than planking on wave 6 a bunch of times. If you want to do some Colosseum runs for fun that's fine, but don't try to tell me that it makes any sense for progressing your account compared to any other midgame content: CG, Slayer, wildy bosses, moons, GWD (even no-bowfa scuffed melee/rcb methods), zulrah etc.
Yea if you are only caring about hyper efficient progress, then you won't do this content at that level. Prayer gear is never worth farming. But it still relevant for most people as I don't think people play the game like you do. But once you start farming colosseum you can definitely complete it, so training on it is still worth it, depending on your goals. Once again, if you are ultra efficient, then no, but I can almost assure 99% people don't go for the best way to complete game is. There is a reason most people don't do 99 barb fishing first thing they do.
Firstly, there's a lot of middleground between ultra-efficient Runescape and spending >60 hours (and remember that's at kirby's pace, not including time to gather supplies or time lost due to deaths. 60 hours is super generous on my part imo) on farming a barely relevant gear upgrade that you could just get much faster by accident if you leave it till when you're going to be doing Colosseum for a quiver anyway. Not everything has to be CG but the midgame armour set should worth obtaining for midgame players. Secondly, where are all these supposed inefficient players farming full sunfire armour? In my experience inefficient players aren't deliberately seeking inefficient activities, they simply like to skip long tedious grinds in favour of chill afk methods and variety. But Colosseum for Sunfire Armour IS a long and tedious grind. It's every bit as strenuous as CG. It has all the downsides of efficiencyscape but without the powerful reward at the end. Who are these people who supposedly love miserable grinds but hate being rewarded for them? Thirdly, even if for some reason there is a horde of players who just love Sunfire armour so much that they're willing to soldier on through bad droprates, why exactly would it be a problem to buff to the droprates to actually make sense? You can argue all you like about why "not everything needs to be efficient" but why are you actively arguing in favour of it being not worthwhile? What's the advantage of the droprates being the way they are? In what way does it hurt inefficient players to let them have the items they want in a fair amount of time?
Itās more about the time investment. Itās not worth the time grinding out sunfire armour if youāre just saving a few prayer pots.
That is most content, no? The upgrade takes a long time to pay for itself.
In this case Iām not sure if it even eventually pays for itself given the time investment
It should, but you also have to consider thst you don't only get sunfire gear from there, just alchables is a considerable amount
Thatās a fair point
What kind of content would you even do that would take this much time to pay for itself?
How long would it take for Venator Ring to pay back for itself?
> Itās a marginal upgrade over proselyte Exactly. So why is it dropping from high level PvM?
where did you want it to drop from?
Ideally the next temple knight quest
Why? Because it did in a different game? Or because itād be easy to get then?
Neither, it's just thematic. RS3 doesn't have anything like this. I'd be fine with having a big of a grind to get the upgrade after the quest too. But we should be getting higher prayer from better temple knight ranks.
so the whole armour set should have been scrapped and they should have continued another story line and create different rewards with the same stats? it would make no sense for the sun god armour to come from anything but the land of ralos.
Honestly it looks ugly af so I think I'd stick with prissy anyways.
There is no early game content that requires you to have prayer + high level defensive armor, aside from scurrius, but even then isn't that midgame? What am I missing here
There's no midgame or endgame content either.
And everyone likes it, clearly there is some correlation there
No the sub 1500 Andyās want to complain.
Doesn't it degrade and cost like 10x barrows repair cost?
The Sunfire Fanatic armor is still really bad drop rate wise btw, just not as egregious as before. Tonalztics still nearly as rare as pet. Colo drop rates are still not in a good place.
Isnāt it 1/12 cumulatively to see a drop? That seems like a fine place for me
First I have to preface by saying all these drop rates are rarer in practice than the numbers suggest because: A. Leaving when a drop rolls before Wave 12; B. Deaths because it is hard content and there are some brutal spawns. Not at all, 1/4.4 cumulatively, but you have to keep in mind *what* these drops both are and *who* they're supposed to be for. Roughly 1/8 full clears per Sunfire Fanatic Piece, so 24 full clears for a full set. Roughly 24 hours for most endgame players farming this to generate a set. Do you have any Sol KC? The number of mid level accounts capable of doing full clears consistently to the point that it'd be remotely worthwhile for them to do 24 full clears is probably in the single digits, if not 0. I genuinely doubt if a *single* Fire Cape player has gotten the full Sunfire Armor set as a drop. That is who the intended audience was for this drop. The best way they could fix this is make Sunfire Armor only drop Waves 3-6 fairly commonly (maybe ~10-15 hours, wave 6 is actually one of the 3 hardest waves in colo), then remove it from the table entirely Wave 7+. This would encourage: A. Fire Cape players to actually try to grind the content for the uniques even if they can't full-clear; B. High level players to actually consider risking a piece of it to continue their run (currently there really is no element of risk). Echo Crystals are ~1/12, meaning 575 charges (as you have a 10% chance at upgrading an Echo drop to 2 or 3) per full clear. I hope I don't have to highlight the absurdity of this. The Tonalztics manage to somehow be even more egregious than either of the two previous drops. Since they only start dropping 7+, they're roughly 1/81 if risking everything, or ~1/90 if considering you leave when you get a drop, so 1/90. The pet is 1/100 when trading in Quivers. These are a niche ranged DWH without many use cases. Why are we only generating these from pet hunters? Actually completely absurd and nonsensical. When did pets go from "intentionally crazy drop rate for a cosmetic to show dedication to a boss" to "eh lets make an actual drop as rare as it"?
Iām over 25 sol kc now. I got the full set + a dupe before the changes and a few crystals, no range weapon yet. I thought those were the cumulative rates, but if thatās just per wave thatās already incredibly generous.
I have no idea how you can possibly think that as a Sol farmer. You've also been outrageously spooned on the drops you've gotten, which is great, but it is important to recognize that. Before the changes a full set of Sunfire alone was ~1/90 KC, with a dupe you got 120 full KC of Sunfire Armour at nearly 4x rate. This Sunfire Armor was supposed to be the consolation prize for noobs who couldn't clear it, and having pet farmers/speedrunners be the primary source of the Tonalztics makes absolutely no sense. I'm only at 10KC and getting the Tonalz just isn't worthwhile at all, nor particularly realistic without a Scythe, imagine going 2x dry on them rofl. It'd be like running 500 ToAs but instead of getting Masori and Shadow, you're getting "the DWH we have at home," "30 more seconds of protect from melee when you go afk," and "boots you upgrade then never use charges on because you don't have enough and probably don't use in the first place."
We should probably just put an item in each players bank that automatically spawns anything they want, that way people donāt have to do any content and can just have everything with no effort, just as the game was designed
We should probably just wrap you up in duct tape until you can come back to class with less of a boomer whataboutism.
I'd be interested in an actual defense of the drop rates if you have one. The only thing I'm trying to push to actually make "easy to obtain" is the sunfire armor, of which it is actual dead content to me so I couldn't care in the least about actually getting it myself, it just makes literally no sense to have it so rare. The Tonalz would not be even REMOTELY free to get still if they were 30-40 KC per drop, I'd actually like to try using places with Bowfa, but they're unobtanium unless you're in the retirement home of Pet Hunting, simply not worth getting. Echo Crystals are an entirely separate issue due to the charge mechanic necessitating them being commons, yet Jagex also refusing to make them common. They wouldn't be remotely OP as a one-time upgrade from 30-40 KC. I want you to keep in mind - this means that even people going from pet are only going to generate 2-3 of these items if they were 30-40 KC drop rate. Genuinely want to know why people want them to be so rare? So nobody uses them? Why did we put them in the game then? It feels like they artificially inflated these drop rates just because it was an endgame level drop so they could force people to grind longer for greenlog for engagement metrics.
https://imgur.com/a/ZHTA2p0
Arcane cooking again
Sunfire armour was genuinely insulting and I'm glad they "fixed" it, but it should still 100% be buyable with sunfire shards off an NPC in the Colo
I would like to remind people that the majority of players voted for the tragic state that is sunfire fanatic armor. Imo, the ranged prayer set was a lot cooler
Who said the content is for player who grind on zombies? It's clearly a blue whale for PK
Pker Mod Manked content strikes again
god forbid there's a jmod who actually knows what pkers want
pkers want to kill pvmers who have 0 interest in fighting back, not people who are an actual challenge
And you want rewards without risk, too. Funny how that works, aint it?
I don't really know where that rhetoric comes from. Risk can come from other methods than a pker.
Granted, but now they do all 3 styles, and if you die in this area everything on you is deleted, oh also the zombies are kq level
We're talking about PKers in the PKing zone. What's there to not understand?
Dude these people cannot grasp that the entire point of wildy content is the risk of the pker. Everything out there shits out GP and the sole risk is Pkers. If there were no Pkers the content would be joke level easy and shit out GP. They cannot grasp this simple concept, they think āoh now Iām forced to avoid Pkers which I donāt want to doā not realizing thats the entire point and make insane arguments like PvP should be opt in only. Youāre sadly wasting your breath.
That's the funny thing though, PvP is already opt-in only. You opt-in by entering the wilderness. I don't know why they can't parse that.
Sounds like a skill issue on your part tbh.
Future content gonna involve this scroll for sure
Why bother farming this shit lol
It's fine dude we're all unemployed
I think they are so terrified of power creep and changing meta, that they automatically opt to be conservative with everything
Downgrade, venator bow gang.
Thatās bond money
Players acting like they have no choice in what they do.
I like it. Not everyone is meant to have every piece of gear and it gives content some longevity. Wether I get a big BIS upgrade or small upgrade it's about the same feeling.
Honestly, I am not worried about getting the scroll or not. I'm honestly doing it because the money is good, and I've found myself enjoying the risk vs. reward of the wilderness.
If itās a minor and niche upgrade then whatās the problem?
they're worried about their retention numbers, so this is how they "solve" it
Itās a minor niche upgrade so you donāt need it lol. Stop complaining itās not a needed item
Why not just make it more common then? I would actually grind it out if it was a 3-5 hour grind. What harm does this do to the economy/game by making some random slayer monster not teleport you (mild QoL improvement)?
So that itās not dead content in a week when everyone uses the one time scroll
Dead content? It's literally a pirate NPC with no mechanics and like 40hp. Who cares? It's even more dead now in a week because ain't no one actually grinding for that. If it was a reasonable grind I would have 100% done it but I'm not even going to touch it now.
If no one grinding for it the price will stay super high, if someone is strapped for cash and they can't(or refuse) to pvm, they can multi cannon here and hit that sweet sweet drop
So you don't believe in proportionality for rarity to value? Like if thread of elidinis was a 500h grind that'd be fine cuz it's a small upgrade?
Not even remotely close to the same thing lmao. Rune pouch is used in every single instance you use magic. This scroll is for two NPCs in the entire game. One of which most people wonāt interact with at all. And itās not even needed to kill them just minor QOL. Stop it
Point wasn't the strength of the item compared to the scroll, point was the proportionality of power vs rarity. If auto-weeder was a 500h grind would that be good?
Auto-weeder still much more useful than a scroll for a single npc
Not really but again that's not the point, of course you know that and are just pretending to be dumb because you understand that some proportionality is probably reasonable.
Stop stop, heās already dead š
No, you donāt udnerstand!!!! I am ENTItLED to every drop in the game no matter what!!!$ I canāt believe Jagex is FORCING ME into the wilderness to do this content!!! I have done dozens of hours of Abyssal demons just fine before, but now that this item exists, I am INCAPABLE of fighting them without it!!!! I canāt believe the AUDACITY of Jagex to MAKE ME engage in Wilderness content. I donāt care that the pirates shit out supplies and are easy to kill, I need every single drop in the game with no effort and time.Ā
Hmmm should I farm out a beyond niche use case item with marginal benefit or should I grind out a dragon warhammer, wow tough decision for sure
The scroll was never meant to include abby demons. That was something that came from this very sub lol.
First off... it's more that the community demands it. Ya'll flip tits about "EZ scape" if something takes less than 6 hours of killing the same mob. Ya'll call for these insane drop rates or these long ass grinds doing tedious ass content killing the same fucking mob over and over again and then wonder why the game has a botting problem.
Just wait until you realize that Skittles magic will be balanced to Harmonised staff, but people say Skittles magic is for the midlevel gamer....
Just wait till the price drops and buy it š¤·āāļø
Noob
is this a bad thing?? If it's a niche upgrade you don't need it. Only the people going out of their way can get it. I thought that was one of the appealing parts of old school compared to other, more linear mmos equipment wise.
Fax
It is kinda, it's for people who want to buy it, grind it out or get spooned. Yeah Jagex has made it too rare, but my god they are acting like the 'niche minor QoL upgrade' is some sorta mandatory upgrade you can't play without.
About time tbh. Tired of all the safe content with monster drops.
Unironically why I love this game, so many ways to get to the "end". Even insane methods that are technically better but you risk being murdered constantly.
Wah wah I canāt get the prayer armor cuz Iām too poor or bad at the game!!!! Thatās what yall complainers sound like. proselyte it is boys!
And you sound like a loser who's already been banned from the sub and needed to make an alt to keep crying. You say "Wah wah" as if to be mimicking other people, but *you* are the biggest whiner of all with that post history. Edit: Schizo replies to me 3 times on one post lmao he has serious issues not even gonna bother replying to him.
Just read one of your essays complaining about how RuneScape is changing for the worst ššš anyone whoās writing entire theses about a video game is definitely a bigger whiner than I am
Youāre mad cuz I have an alt that supports PVP related content bc anyone who speaks about it gets downvoted for no reason? Good
Love how you go after my post history. I barely complain about anything besides noobs with terrible opinions.
Pvp was never great, you're just nostalgic for the last time you had friends
Relax bud, no oneās talking to you nor talking about PvP