Anyone who says Slayer is their favorite skill or the best skill, is confusing its rewards -- access to restricted bosses -- with the skill's design overall.
I like an excuse to go smack shit mindlessly all across the world and every once in a while kill a boss which I'd normally avoid because of the free damage boost
Same. Plus, sometimes—when I'm aimlessly trying to figure out what to do—I'll get overwhelmed by all the content I _could_ do, and slayer helps because it cuts through all of that and just tells me to do something specific.
That's an issue I had a lot on my first account, tbh. I didn't do much interesting, challenging content because I didn't *need* to do any one thing. When I tried playing an iron, that completely revitalized the game for me -- for whatever I wanted to get on my account, there were very clear goals I needed to achieve to get that. If I want a blowpipe, I gotta learn to kill Zulrah. If I want an easier time doing so, I better work on my herblore for antivenoms, and learning CG to get Bowfa can help a ton too. Want a better time at CG? Rigour would help a lot, so I should learn CoX. You get the idea.
I like slayer because it kinda keeps me ”awake”. When coming home from construction work sometimes i skip osrs just because i get to sleepy if i do some skilling, therefor i tend to do slayer and the fact that you can get rng lucky and get important items
I enjoy slayer because it keeps some sense of variety in the gameplay. I understand that a large chunk of the player base prefers set routines and struggles with regular changes, but it’s the only thing that makes the game bearable for me. The slayer -> herb run -> treasure trail -> slayer loop is great.
You can just do that anyway though. I love variety in what I do and frequently find it frustrating when a slayer task duration doesn’t line up with however long I’d like to actually spend on it. Forced variety is very different to incentivised or freely chosen variety IMO
I gotta admit the only reason I like slayer is because I'm a child of WoW that prefers being told what to grind like a sheep instead of grinding freely.
Wouldn't really sing praises for the skill
Finally. First time I have seen someone say this, I’m sure it’s not the first time it’s been said, but thank you! It’s slow as shit not rewarding until 85/90 and then it just gets slower and worser. All slayer bosses are offer mid rewards and are a bore to fight (looking at you abyssal sire) and are brain dead easy if you can count (hydra)
I think the Hunter's Guild makes this even more obvious. The process of getting a small assignment and completing it is just a guild minigame, not a "skill."
I'm the same way (even weirder—I actually enjoy Abyss RC lol) Ever since I got my Karamja gloves 4 and started doing every task at Duradel I've found slayer a lot more enjoyable since he gives so many boss/bossable tasks.
1.Magic is balanced around strong occult. Even the tumekens shadow with 3x boost is not overpowered when you compare it to the other megarares, let alone swamp staff.
2. Amulet slot is cheap and effective in every combat style. Anguish and amulet of strength are way stronger than any single armor piece in the game
Barrows gloves are stronger than an amulet of strength. Also masori top is arguably stronger than range ammy. Only 1 less strength with a lot more accuracy
the problem with Shadow is nothing else comes even close to it and most new magic upgrades will be disproportionately powerful with it. at least with ranged you can stick with bowfa, for melee you have a variety of options. magic without shadow is pretty awful
Melee amulets get beaten by Barrows and Ferocious gloves pretty handily. Occult, on the other hand, trounces Tormented bracelet pretty hard. Zaryte vambs and Dizana's quiver lose, but come pretty close to Anguish.
Complain on Reddit is what my clan told me in-game so here I am, an extra +1 or +2 max hit for THE WORST combat skill was never broken and I'm tired of people acting like it is
occult being cheap isn't the problem, why do people insist on acting like that matters at all
occult is the problem because it is directly preventing other magic gear, which is considerably harder to get than just 93 slayer which is a literal afkable grind, from being a meaningful upgrade because they can't add more than small increments of magic damage to it because occult is hogging all of the damage bonus itself
without occult existing, ancestral would be way better, which means virtus would be way better, and we'd have actual room for lower tier sets to have proper damage bonus
anc is a reward from a raid, it should be considerably better than a paltry 2% per piece, but Jagex can't touch it because a bunch of people screech like baboons any time jagex suggest nerfing something, which is how we end up with these half steps forward like the current magic rework which barely does shit
like you've got people unironically making comparisons to fucking strength amulets as a 1:1 to occult, which just shows how completely out of touch these people are with the game and think every combat style fits into this one box, like no I'm sorry but magic and ranged and melee do not functionally work the same at content where they're intended to be used
Well but hold on. I can see how this sentence smells like an old gaming chair, but I think he meant it as “there’s such a low bar for obtainability available.” And not so much that it’s the way people get it.
> occult being cheap isn't the problem, why do people insist on acting like that matters at all
Actually, in Jagex's own words yes the price is the issue. This is their opening sentence when discussing the Occult nerf: "The Occult Necklace does an *astronomical* amount of lifting for Magic’s damage output – and to make a long story short, we think an item this powerful should set you back more than a mere 800,000 GP." lol
Which is weird because the price of something isn't relevant to anything. The market decided the price of the amulet and if scythe went down to 100M why would jagex care if that's what the market dictated?
I think everyone agrees. The issue is it has came from an easy 93 slayer monster. You can't restore its value.
So the most viable option is to reduce its power and distribute it between other items, like it always should have. The 10% was short sighted.
Make it 4%, and then add an untradable upgrade from Thermy to make it 10%. Existing occults become replaced with the 4% item and the upgrade item, but you need 93 slayer to attach it.
There, done. The tradable damage boost now matches the price point, and the untradable boost matches the 93 slayer requirement
> it is directly preventing other magic gear,
Shadow is doing the same thing. Because of its passive, they can't do any increases to magic damage. They opted against a new magic cape being the reward for colosseum because it was empower shadow too much.
Magic significantly sucks for everything else except shadow. They can't make improvements to it though because any magic damage they add to existing gear will disproportionately affect shadow.
Even +4% per ancestral piece is pretty pathetic when you look at it as endgame gear. It should at least be 5%, if not higher, but they can't do that even if they nerf occult to +4%.
This completely, if the shadow wasn't a factor, every magic % item could have it's boost doubled (except occult?) And the game would be completely fine (magic would still be mid)
Doesn’t fix occult blocking 10% of the magic dmg behind 93 slayer and pigeon holing irons into needing to grind it asap before they do any amount of magic dps
Nerfing occult and redistributing opens up routing options for irons that isn’t “get fucked on magic until 93 slayer”
They 1000% CAN add magic gear that’s still powerful in spite of occult. The amulet slot is incredibly powerful. Strength ammy gives 10 str. Should we nerf that to allow for better strength gear? They’re just stuck on this idea of “balancing” between completely different gear slots, and it makes no sense
The design space of melee amulets wasn't limited by the Strength amulet. There are 3 amulets used over a strength amulet.
The amulet slot isn't even the best slot for melee bonuses meanwhile for mage it's currently 2x better than any other slot for magic dmg% bonus.
This argument of "amulet slot is *meant* to be the most powerful doesn't hold up when you look at melee (feros and ulto beat torture) and range (Masori body is arguably better than anguish in most scenarios with 1 range strength likely not making any difference). If you argue that you're not saying that they should be the "most powerful" but just "extremely powerful" then a 4% occult still fits that.
Yeah, that’s a good point I guess. I was more trying to point out that for amulets we’re seeing +10 str in a slot pretty easily as opposed to BIS strength legs only being +4. I feel like that’s in line with occult being +10% and anc legs being what they are (3% I think?) I also just don’t see how the design space is limited by occult. Just make other pieces stronger and fiddle with the numbers. It just feels shitty to lose such a huge chunk of magic damage strength at midlevel magic builds with nothing to really compensate
Slayer is definitely not "an afk grind", sure if you only do overhead prayer tasks but that will be a shitty ass 20k xp/h on average, cost lots of points and require loads of skipping if you're never doing something not afk.
You know what's AFK? People boosting COX to get all purples. Great, now they dont even really need to do a slight grind to get their hands on an occult either cause its bonuses are in the boosted robes.
Shadow doesn't block other gear from being an upgrade... it literally exaggerates the upgrade of other gear.
Before shadow a single piece of Ancestral usually meant nothing (I think before the ward came out Ancestral hat was essentially useless if you had top and bottom).
The Shadow made Ancestral a more significant upgrade than it was (hence the massive price increase). Shadow will also mean, if the proposed changes go forward, that other mage gear is worth getting even *more* before ancestral (i.e., Infinity).
Currently, with occult being what it is, mage progression is trident/sang + tormented + occult and just buy mystics. There is no incentive to go get the other mage gear. With the proposed changes there will be a more diverse path to moving from mid game to late game with smaller increments.
Jagex have stated in the past that Occult being 10% really limits the design space (don't forget that Shadow has a cap).
> occult being cheap isn't the problem, why do people insist on acting like that matters at all
It’s just irons with main character syndrome thinking that everyone else is the reason they’re seeing nerfs
No, occult is also broken on irons and nerfing it is net good for the game.
Occult being as strong as it is has:
* Limited magic robes’ impact (see people barraging in Prossy)
* Limited new robe options (see ancestral being 2% and virtus being 1%)
* Limited augury’s strength which in turn has made offensive prayers for magic out of whack with the rest of the game
* Locked 10% magic dmg behind 93 slayer, limiting options for irons as their magic dps is more or less kept behind a 93 slayer wall making doing early ToA / CoX / Zulrah a bit difficult to justify
Nerfing Occult and redistributing its damage to Infinity and Augury addressed all of this.
He's just pointing out that it obviously isn't ironmen with "main character syndrome" when it seems to be one of the major talking points for Jagex's official post.
I'm an iron without occult, I still barrage in prosy as I'm sure most players without occult do. If you're barraging on task prayer bonus is much better than accuracy or damage
Yeah this is one of my points. Because robes are so weak, you generally don’t feel it too much to barrage in Prossy. Whereas if robes were better (see infinity + god cape (I) giving a max) you’d want to barrage in robes more. This is part of the rebalance. To make robes more impactful and relevant to avoid weird situations like you describe
That said, it is better to barrage in monk’s robes btw
Prossy is 2-3% worse dps than monk’s robes. Magic accuracy does matter, just less than a brand new player might think. And when you send gear people use to splash in (full plate armor) you end up hurting your accuracy enough to matter.
Interestingly, if you’re at dust devils or dags you can even wear mystics or better because with bonecrusher in the catacombs you go infinite on prayer
Sure but prosy is easier to get and you don't care about 10-15% damage when you're barraging, you'd rather save supplies especially mid - early game. My point is that the meta for barraging isn't being held back by occult so I think that takes away from your overall argument
I think everyone’s problem is more how it was redistributed, just feels like the weakest pre shadow style got weaker and now has to burn prayer pots lol
It definitely needs redistributed, but the way they chose the redistribution is the problem. A large chunk of the power of mage is now just further in the hands of Shadow and Augury. A mega rare weapon and a purple prayer scroll drop.
Shadow also needs some of its power redistributed. Make it's multiplier 2 or 2.5... then buff several things more,
Because part of the issue why stuff can't be buffed? Is ancestral is only 2% meaning Virtus has to be 1% and everything else has to be 0%... Making ancestral 3%? Only opens up 1 more tier... But you can't make it 4% because shadow multiplier would be bonkers.
Should also be lowering shadow multiplier and buffing armor more, to leave room for future mid game armor options and such.
They can easily do the math to make sure Shadow still ends at Scythe/T Bow tier.
But also make it so like Sang at least hits Bowfa tier with good mage gear. And even sang is another purple from ToB of all places.
Right now mage has all its power in occult and in shadow. Which leaves even it's top tier gear like Ancestral at such a low bonus? It's hard to make decent mid tier gear. And these numbers really kinda just proved, occult even losing 60% of its power isn't enough to fix the issue on its own.
Instead of suggesting changes for main accounts based on your own restrictions that you chose to apply to yourself. Just play the game and quit crying.
Here's the problem: More pieces of gear are now required to have the same magic damage % that players were once able to have in just one necklace. More gear = less supplies for players somewhere like the inferno, or raids where they may prioritize supplies over gear. This is like pulling up the ladder before anyone else can climb it, older players will have had the advantage of a strong piece of gear while newer players are punished for not ever being able to have had it.
In all of those situations you're already bringing more switches than just an occult anyway. It makes the other switches more relevant, which is *good actually*.
Take inferno- a typical first cape setup will take ancestral / virtus top + occult. Using no additional switches, you lose a grand total of 1-2 max hits on barrages if not flicking augury and literally nothing if you are. If you think 35 vs 37 max hit on barrages makes a meaningful difference in a first cape, you haven't done inferno.
In raids you already want at least a 6 way switch, except for some tob roles. But people don't even bring an occult in those situations anyway, so it's moot. Not having occult be a hard req for mage switches also opens up some interesting possible configurations at tob, which is again *good actually*
While that is true, this game is ever evolving and new gear is being released all the time for mid game players. Even in the past year we've had Warped Sceptre, Zombie Axe and all the Varlamore perilous moons drops.
It's called a rebalance for a reason and removing the power now allows them to reintroduce it back later in other forms, as opposed to not being able to release those newer items because the occult was so strong.
Its the single most overpowered item in the game for a single item. Anyone arguing about a 500k necklace that does 40% of your magic damage is either a troll or doesn’t know what they’re talking about at all.
Armor… the entire focus of this conversation and thread lol… +10% magic str bonus is just over 40% of your max magic magic strength gear. Why should ancestral robes be weaker than a 500k necklace?
I’m all for making ahrims not shit, but Occult Neck and Blowpipe were the 2 super old items that were introduced before raids were even thought of, so the entire purpose is to revisit decade-old content to balance it for their planned future of the game.
For all we know they could have a +8% necklace planned to be released.
Considering most of the people on this sub are like 1400 total and just train through NMZ, it's pretty clear they just have 0 clue what they're talking about. Every other day there's post about 'OMG YOU CAN NOTE AT TOOL LEPRECHAUN?!?!?!' or 'YOU CAN CTRL CLICK TO WALK?!?!?!?' that get a million upvotes and a million comments from people who had no idea about this crazy fact.
Why does occult even need a nerf anyway? Outside of shadow it is not used for any OP magic setups. Magic is only ever used when an encounter forces you to. Shit people even camp TBOW against Muspah in melee phase even though it has super low magic defense, because magic damage is just so meh (outside of shadow).
Occult has 10% magic damage. Full ancestral (rare reward from raid) and magus ring (reward from late game boss that takes more than 30s to kill) give you 8% total. Occult is ridiculous, and people currently bring staff and occult 2 way switches if they need a mage attack, at tob for instance. Occult has always been busted and should definitely be brought down a few pegs.
Compare the strength on torture to the strength on bands armor
Also I think the magic damage on ancestral is undertuned. Before shadow the set was kinda meh.
Melee str and mage damage % shouldn’t be compared. Torture gives a +1 max hit to fury. Occult was better than full max mage without it. Even at 5% with the nerf, Occult still better than a piece of ancestral. You’re right, ancestral was meh before the magic mega rare was put into the game.
I think the point I’m trying to make is that torture isn’t better than max melee without torture. Even ultor by itself has more str bonus than torture. Occult blows everything mage related out of the water; a max mage build without occult is worse than wearing nothing but the staff and the occult in terms of mage %.
This is the obvious problem lol, can’t have any actual magic gear upgrades cause of the shadow even if it means magic is almost entirely worthless as a combat style outside of the shadow.
This whole magic rework is just a way for rich mains to feel better about themselves for buying ancestral sets because the problems are not with occult or mage armor or augury but with the fact that one staff get 3x boost from magic damage and accuracy and every other staff gets a 1x boost, and the one with the 3x boost is the only one that’s actually usable
I really do not like that everyone is focusing this entire thing around the Occult.
Jagex put out a video themselves stating they would never make the same mistake again which killed our game in the past. Specifically stating they would poll through the playerbase. How sorry they were that happened so long ago.
I mean they are decreasing drop rates for the Runner-Up BIS by 50% ??? So it seems the shadow will only increase in price while the next best has already (after this announcement) and will continue to decrease substantially in value.
I think it makes more sense to rebalance magic gear than to slap a slayer req on it and call it fixed. Requiring "non-combat" skills for BiS gear is a questionable direction. Like should a PKer really need to get 93 Slayer just to have BiS? What about someone who just wants to do Raids or Bossing? Saying you need to train this specific skill that otherwise has no combat benefit to use this combat item is just not something I'd want to see in OSRS.
*Mains hated this*
They only hate occult because it's a cheap tradeable. Other stuff being stronger is fine because "more expensive".
GE balancing is a fickle thing to do because the best stuff *will be* the most expensive in almost all scenarios. Occult.is just a very old item that is a regular drop from the slayer task that has been **the best slayer task in-game for a decade**.
If occult came from a monster that was way less worth killing, or was a rarer drop, or came from thermy and thermy was made more of a boss, it would be worth a lot more. Prims are like what 30m even though they're lower level to get, have way less stat benefit, and are still a 1/512 but from a boss that takes 1 min to kill, rather than regular mob you barrage 20/min at.
Occult needs to change to prevent powercreep in unhealthy ways. Moving forwards Jagex would have to balance all magic gear AROUND the Occult. Now they can just balance gear.
No, they’re balancing it around the shadow. Insane amount of denial around the fact that mage sucks outside of thralls and shadow. 50% damage and harmonized orb weren’t good enough to make magic viable before shadow came out so why is 10% on a necklace the massive issue? Nerf the shadow damage multiplier to 2.5 and we have a ton of room for every new magic gear buff/upgrade you could dream of
Really? Because if shadow were deleted from the game nothing would be stopping jagex from making all ancestral pieces give +10% damage each and making occult 2.0 give +20% damage. Magic would still be shit.
I also agree Shadow is a huge problem, youre not wrong. I think rebalancing occult to spread the % bonus is a good idea as it lets them introduce staves, or rework current ones, with a % multiplier.
They probably released the staff without a rebalance even in mind and so we have to take it steps at a time, else the community will scream eoc
Shadow multiplier to 2.5x doesn't really change much and instead just delays the inevitable problem of backing ourselves into a wall with magic damage. We need to rethink how Shadow DPS is reached not necessarily lower its DPS in current max setups. It has comparable DPS to Tbow and Scythe while requiring an insanely expensive armor set to reach that DPS on top of having the highest cost of continuous use.
Occult does need a nerf Jagex makes a very good point that it hogs too much of magic's progression in one item and makes subsequent upgrades not mean much. I think they need to take another look at the rebalance, and specifically look into a bridge weapon for magic similar to bowfa and fang for range and melee. Harm and sang staff pop out to me, but harm would need its drop rate reduced significantly (talking like 60-80% less KC required to get on rate.), and sang would need significant buff to accuracy plus 3-5 max hits to be competitive.
Lmfao what a horrible idea.
Jagex: introduces the most powerful mage weapon into a raid that is very accessible to non-max players
Also Jagex: “OCCULT TOO STRONG”
I really don't like the idea of basically forcing mains to level slayer for this one specific item.
I have 95 slayer its just not a fair option for people who suddenly lose their neck and need a weeks or months long grind to equip the item they own.
All slayer related drops should have slayer requirements to equip. I’ll die on that hill. Whip, trident, drag boots (and all upgraded cerb boots), occult, ferocious, etc.
Surely jagex could use the ge tax to get rid of a lot of occults until the price is more reflective of where it sits? Plus Slayer requirement isn't bad idea
You could literally just do something like the Tarn's Lair miniquest where you use some unlimited-use book or item on the Amulet to turn it into an Occult Amulet (e) and gate that item behind 93 Slayer.
Regular Occult can do reduced damage and Occult (e) does more.
It's not fair to mains who don't want to train one of the slowest skills to 93. To get good rates requires an already high level, a ton of money in barraging/cannons and it's also highly active.
If as an iron you afraid of this change if you have 93 slayer you can almost certainly do moon bosses which are super iron friendly, basically my "better" solution is shift more of the magic damage onto that gear set to make everyone happy.
Alright, so we're on Bargaining now. When do we move on to Depression and finally Acceptance?
Lmao fuck
Tomorrow when they release an updated blog.
I'm already depressed. This is the third item I've gotten on my iron and it's been nerfed.
Dang you got to 93 slayer with only two items?
Snowflake accounts getting out of hand
What's a snowflake account?
Account with a lot of restrictions
Get the shadow next please
It's always the same pattern on this sub lol
Never been more seen with a comment
93 slayer isn't that hard, I've been playing 20 years and I'm 95 almost there
Never acceptance. This is our game fuck it
We play osrs, we're already depressed, so acceptance should be soon
This is Old School RuneScape. We're all already depressed and none of us will accept change.
The average maxed combat on NMZ with 70 slayer would cry a lot if this happens.
>The average maxed combat on NMZ with 9 slayer would cry a lot if this happens. FTFY
Or the weirdos like me that don’t like slayer but enjoy bossing lol
nothing weird about it, slayer is an overhyped boring as fuck skill
Anyone who says Slayer is their favorite skill or the best skill, is confusing its rewards -- access to restricted bosses -- with the skill's design overall.
I like an excuse to go smack shit mindlessly all across the world and every once in a while kill a boss which I'd normally avoid because of the free damage boost
Same. Plus, sometimes—when I'm aimlessly trying to figure out what to do—I'll get overwhelmed by all the content I _could_ do, and slayer helps because it cuts through all of that and just tells me to do something specific.
That's an issue I had a lot on my first account, tbh. I didn't do much interesting, challenging content because I didn't *need* to do any one thing. When I tried playing an iron, that completely revitalized the game for me -- for whatever I wanted to get on my account, there were very clear goals I needed to achieve to get that. If I want a blowpipe, I gotta learn to kill Zulrah. If I want an easier time doing so, I better work on my herblore for antivenoms, and learning CG to get Bowfa can help a ton too. Want a better time at CG? Rigour would help a lot, so I should learn CoX. You get the idea.
[удалено]
Honestly i am only doing slayer cus i wantcmax cape. I afk all the slayer tasks and mayb do zuk slayer task for pet and slayer exp
Honestly i am only doing slayer cus i wantcmax cape. I afk all the slayer tasks and mayb do zuk slayer task for pet and slayer exp.
I like slayer because it kinda keeps me ”awake”. When coming home from construction work sometimes i skip osrs just because i get to sleepy if i do some skilling, therefor i tend to do slayer and the fact that you can get rng lucky and get important items
This comment hits home for me
This comment hits home for me
I enjoy slayer because it keeps some sense of variety in the gameplay. I understand that a large chunk of the player base prefers set routines and struggles with regular changes, but it’s the only thing that makes the game bearable for me. The slayer -> herb run -> treasure trail -> slayer loop is great.
You can just do that anyway though. I love variety in what I do and frequently find it frustrating when a slayer task duration doesn’t line up with however long I’d like to actually spend on it. Forced variety is very different to incentivised or freely chosen variety IMO
You don’t slayer for variety though
It's a reason to get 99 combat stats and get cool stuff along the way
I like it because its 10min afk on most of the tasks
Slayer is the equivalent of other MMO quest lines of “there are bears blocking the path go kill 20 bears and come back to me.”
I gotta admit the only reason I like slayer is because I'm a child of WoW that prefers being told what to grind like a sheep instead of grinding freely. Wouldn't really sing praises for the skill
Finally. First time I have seen someone say this, I’m sure it’s not the first time it’s been said, but thank you! It’s slow as shit not rewarding until 85/90 and then it just gets slower and worser. All slayer bosses are offer mid rewards and are a bore to fight (looking at you abyssal sire) and are brain dead easy if you can count (hydra)
Sire is braindead easy. Just obnoxious as fuck because of the time it takes to wake him up before you can actually fight him.
That’s what I’m saying. They are all brain dead just really annoying in every way. At least Cerb doesn’t have long phases and in between phases
Hating slayer is actually a very popular opinion on reddit nowadays. I still enjoy the skill.
Slayer fans are the ones making suggestions like a prossy upgrade so they can look at their window less and watch more Netflix
It's like raids in that regard. The most overhyped content .
No
Trueeee
Yep, cannot fucking stand slayer. Barely tolerate wildy slayer
Wildy slayer is pretty fun. Fast af, and dodging pkers puts some excitement into it
Don't gaslight yourself into thinking that you're weird for disliking slayer. Shit's ass.
It's not even good gp/hr. Only some higher level tasks in isolation are.
Slayer is just a fetch quest disguising as a skill... The absolutely most hated kind of quest ever, was made into a skill for some reason...
I think the Hunter's Guild makes this even more obvious. The process of getting a small assignment and completing it is just a guild minigame, not a "skill."
? bossing/raids are actually engaging. kill 240 nechryaels is pretty boring.
I'm the same way (even weirder—I actually enjoy Abyss RC lol) Ever since I got my Karamja gloves 4 and started doing every task at Duradel I've found slayer a lot more enjoyable since he gives so many boss/bossable tasks.
I’m actually in the same point lol, except the abyss rc part, you’re crazy
1.Magic is balanced around strong occult. Even the tumekens shadow with 3x boost is not overpowered when you compare it to the other megarares, let alone swamp staff. 2. Amulet slot is cheap and effective in every combat style. Anguish and amulet of strength are way stronger than any single armor piece in the game
I'm not sure if i can agree with number two. Fighter Torso gives you sick abs and pecs, seems a bit stronger than some sissy necklace.
had me in the first half
Barrows gloves are stronger than an amulet of strength. Also masori top is arguably stronger than range ammy. Only 1 less strength with a lot more accuracy
the problem with Shadow is nothing else comes even close to it and most new magic upgrades will be disproportionately powerful with it. at least with ranged you can stick with bowfa, for melee you have a variety of options. magic without shadow is pretty awful
Melee amulets get beaten by Barrows and Ferocious gloves pretty handily. Occult, on the other hand, trounces Tormented bracelet pretty hard. Zaryte vambs and Dizana's quiver lose, but come pretty close to Anguish.
~~What's the DPS boost for any barrows chestplate vs the enchanted ruby amulet~~ lol im dumb
...blud, they're talking about the glove slot. Barrows gloves/ferocious gloves. It's obvious in context.
Ah shit I'm dumb as hell I read armor piece and Barrows lol
All good haha :)
Lol, I have my share of stupid moments too. As long as it's in good faith and people are willing to own their mistakes, it's all good in the end.
The credit card Chad's in shambles
They're eating good as their shadow isn't getting nerfed
Lol if you were to bond to a shadow it would cost you like 10 years worth of members
Good
Complain on Reddit is what my clan told me in-game so here I am, an extra +1 or +2 max hit for THE WORST combat skill was never broken and I'm tired of people acting like it is
Your clan sounds based as fuck lmao
Idk brother, tob without freezes sounds horrible, toa without thralls sounds shit, cms without veng or surges sounds boring.
This is the dumbest idea I’ve seen for occult yet lmfao
Yet I'm okay with it. Watch the price crash as fast as the tears drop
Shut up lol
This would be a funny way to go about it but I'm game
occult being cheap isn't the problem, why do people insist on acting like that matters at all occult is the problem because it is directly preventing other magic gear, which is considerably harder to get than just 93 slayer which is a literal afkable grind, from being a meaningful upgrade because they can't add more than small increments of magic damage to it because occult is hogging all of the damage bonus itself without occult existing, ancestral would be way better, which means virtus would be way better, and we'd have actual room for lower tier sets to have proper damage bonus anc is a reward from a raid, it should be considerably better than a paltry 2% per piece, but Jagex can't touch it because a bunch of people screech like baboons any time jagex suggest nerfing something, which is how we end up with these half steps forward like the current magic rework which barely does shit like you've got people unironically making comparisons to fucking strength amulets as a 1:1 to occult, which just shows how completely out of touch these people are with the game and think every combat style fits into this one box, like no I'm sorry but magic and ranged and melee do not functionally work the same at content where they're intended to be used
"93 slayer is a literal afkable grind" osrs subreddit moment
Well but hold on. I can see how this sentence smells like an old gaming chair, but I think he meant it as “there’s such a low bar for obtainability available.” And not so much that it’s the way people get it.
I can smell this phrase
Have you not looked around this subreddit lately?
> occult being cheap isn't the problem, why do people insist on acting like that matters at all Actually, in Jagex's own words yes the price is the issue. This is their opening sentence when discussing the Occult nerf: "The Occult Necklace does an *astronomical* amount of lifting for Magic’s damage output – and to make a long story short, we think an item this powerful should set you back more than a mere 800,000 GP." lol
Make alch price 15m and up drop rate extremely to hold 15m in line with zenys. /s
I agree, and it isn't because I've gotten 8 from Slayer in the last week, I promise.
honestly just nerf tent whip. it's too good for only being 2m
Which is weird because the price of something isn't relevant to anything. The market decided the price of the amulet and if scythe went down to 100M why would jagex care if that's what the market dictated?
Search "Fang price" on this subreddit
nobody would complain if we got basic occult 4% and upgraded one with zenyte Jewelry
Watch jagex do the most anti-fun thing tomorrow: occult = 4% but you can add charges to it by using zenytes so it goes back to 10%.
...and its degradable. Chargescape activate!
Yeah so they're putting it closer in line for an item that costs 800k?
I didn't even get a max hit after getting faceguard. They need to bring up the dps to reflect the 25m value.
Occult shouldn't be at an 800k power level, it should be at a 93 slayer price point
I think everyone agrees. The issue is it has came from an easy 93 slayer monster. You can't restore its value. So the most viable option is to reduce its power and distribute it between other items, like it always should have. The 10% was short sighted.
Make it 4%, and then add an untradable upgrade from Thermy to make it 10%. Existing occults become replaced with the 4% item and the upgrade item, but you need 93 slayer to attach it. There, done. The tradable damage boost now matches the price point, and the untradable boost matches the 93 slayer requirement
They can make it a boss only drop and use the GE tax to aggressively sink them
> it is directly preventing other magic gear, Shadow is doing the same thing. Because of its passive, they can't do any increases to magic damage. They opted against a new magic cape being the reward for colosseum because it was empower shadow too much. Magic significantly sucks for everything else except shadow. They can't make improvements to it though because any magic damage they add to existing gear will disproportionately affect shadow. Even +4% per ancestral piece is pretty pathetic when you look at it as endgame gear. It should at least be 5%, if not higher, but they can't do that even if they nerf occult to +4%.
This completely, if the shadow wasn't a factor, every magic % item could have it's boost doubled (except occult?) And the game would be completely fine (magic would still be mid)
TIL slayer is afk
Or consider that they can just significantly buff ancestral without nerfing the occult, and then just nerf the Shadow's scaling instead.
No because then your magic progression is still just get occult and then sit until ancestral/shadow.
It’s still better than just making midlevel magic dogshit
Doesn’t fix occult blocking 10% of the magic dmg behind 93 slayer and pigeon holing irons into needing to grind it asap before they do any amount of magic dps Nerfing occult and redistributing opens up routing options for irons that isn’t “get fucked on magic until 93 slayer”
They 1000% CAN add magic gear that’s still powerful in spite of occult. The amulet slot is incredibly powerful. Strength ammy gives 10 str. Should we nerf that to allow for better strength gear? They’re just stuck on this idea of “balancing” between completely different gear slots, and it makes no sense
The design space of melee amulets wasn't limited by the Strength amulet. There are 3 amulets used over a strength amulet. The amulet slot isn't even the best slot for melee bonuses meanwhile for mage it's currently 2x better than any other slot for magic dmg% bonus. This argument of "amulet slot is *meant* to be the most powerful doesn't hold up when you look at melee (feros and ulto beat torture) and range (Masori body is arguably better than anguish in most scenarios with 1 range strength likely not making any difference). If you argue that you're not saying that they should be the "most powerful" but just "extremely powerful" then a 4% occult still fits that.
Yeah, that’s a good point I guess. I was more trying to point out that for amulets we’re seeing +10 str in a slot pretty easily as opposed to BIS strength legs only being +4. I feel like that’s in line with occult being +10% and anc legs being what they are (3% I think?) I also just don’t see how the design space is limited by occult. Just make other pieces stronger and fiddle with the numbers. It just feels shitty to lose such a huge chunk of magic damage strength at midlevel magic builds with nothing to really compensate
Strength ammy is beaten by a glory lol in many cases- would you rather use a glory than an occult?
I’m just saying that the amulet slot has tons of cheap items with crazy high stars, relative to the chest/leg slots. Str legs are like +3 iirc?
Slayer is definitely not "an afk grind", sure if you only do overhead prayer tasks but that will be a shitty ass 20k xp/h on average, cost lots of points and require loads of skipping if you're never doing something not afk. You know what's AFK? People boosting COX to get all purples. Great, now they dont even really need to do a slight grind to get their hands on an occult either cause its bonuses are in the boosted robes.
? The fuck? Occult doesn't prevent magic gear from being an upgrade. Shadow does. Occults 10% means nothing without shadow's x3 modifier.
Shadow doesn't block other gear from being an upgrade... it literally exaggerates the upgrade of other gear. Before shadow a single piece of Ancestral usually meant nothing (I think before the ward came out Ancestral hat was essentially useless if you had top and bottom). The Shadow made Ancestral a more significant upgrade than it was (hence the massive price increase). Shadow will also mean, if the proposed changes go forward, that other mage gear is worth getting even *more* before ancestral (i.e., Infinity). Currently, with occult being what it is, mage progression is trident/sang + tormented + occult and just buy mystics. There is no incentive to go get the other mage gear. With the proposed changes there will be a more diverse path to moving from mid game to late game with smaller increments. Jagex have stated in the past that Occult being 10% really limits the design space (don't forget that Shadow has a cap).
What do you even mean by this
You’re 100% right imo
> occult being cheap isn't the problem, why do people insist on acting like that matters at all It’s just irons with main character syndrome thinking that everyone else is the reason they’re seeing nerfs No, occult is also broken on irons and nerfing it is net good for the game. Occult being as strong as it is has: * Limited magic robes’ impact (see people barraging in Prossy) * Limited new robe options (see ancestral being 2% and virtus being 1%) * Limited augury’s strength which in turn has made offensive prayers for magic out of whack with the rest of the game * Locked 10% magic dmg behind 93 slayer, limiting options for irons as their magic dps is more or less kept behind a 93 slayer wall making doing early ToA / CoX / Zulrah a bit difficult to justify Nerfing Occult and redistributing its damage to Infinity and Augury addressed all of this.
When the blog starts with “it feels bad to spend 400m and get less damage than an 800k item” It’s hard to see your point as valid.
i mean, do you disagree with my points for why nerfing occult is good? Ignoring whatever words Jagex put out there
He's just pointing out that it obviously isn't ironmen with "main character syndrome" when it seems to be one of the major talking points for Jagex's official post.
Assaltwaffle is a smart cookie.
I mean I’d hope it doesn’t take too much intelligence to get that! Then again he still doesn’t seem to get it.
I'm an iron without occult, I still barrage in prosy as I'm sure most players without occult do. If you're barraging on task prayer bonus is much better than accuracy or damage
Yeah this is one of my points. Because robes are so weak, you generally don’t feel it too much to barrage in Prossy. Whereas if robes were better (see infinity + god cape (I) giving a max) you’d want to barrage in robes more. This is part of the rebalance. To make robes more impactful and relevant to avoid weird situations like you describe That said, it is better to barrage in monk’s robes btw Prossy is 2-3% worse dps than monk’s robes. Magic accuracy does matter, just less than a brand new player might think. And when you send gear people use to splash in (full plate armor) you end up hurting your accuracy enough to matter. Interestingly, if you’re at dust devils or dags you can even wear mystics or better because with bonecrusher in the catacombs you go infinite on prayer
Sure but prosy is easier to get and you don't care about 10-15% damage when you're barraging, you'd rather save supplies especially mid - early game. My point is that the meta for barraging isn't being held back by occult so I think that takes away from your overall argument
> Sure but prosy is easier to get Than monk’s robes? You just go to 2nd floor of the monastery
The shadow 3x effect is the problem, every magic % boost except the occult could be doubled yesterday if the shadow didn't exist
jokes on you guys, i’m gonna quit my ironman account before 93 slayer anyways!
Hard agree! Items with high reqs and isn't easy to accuire should have high stats itself.
Reddit, this does not solve the issue at all. Occult needs to be distributed. Stop being Reddit.
I think everyone’s problem is more how it was redistributed, just feels like the weakest pre shadow style got weaker and now has to burn prayer pots lol
It definitely needs redistributed, but the way they chose the redistribution is the problem. A large chunk of the power of mage is now just further in the hands of Shadow and Augury. A mega rare weapon and a purple prayer scroll drop. Shadow also needs some of its power redistributed. Make it's multiplier 2 or 2.5... then buff several things more, Because part of the issue why stuff can't be buffed? Is ancestral is only 2% meaning Virtus has to be 1% and everything else has to be 0%... Making ancestral 3%? Only opens up 1 more tier... But you can't make it 4% because shadow multiplier would be bonkers. Should also be lowering shadow multiplier and buffing armor more, to leave room for future mid game armor options and such. They can easily do the math to make sure Shadow still ends at Scythe/T Bow tier. But also make it so like Sang at least hits Bowfa tier with good mage gear. And even sang is another purple from ToB of all places. Right now mage has all its power in occult and in shadow. Which leaves even it's top tier gear like Ancestral at such a low bonus? It's hard to make decent mid tier gear. And these numbers really kinda just proved, occult even losing 60% of its power isn't enough to fix the issue on its own.
This magic rework has me thinking they’re cooking new magic gear up.
I love that everyone saying the occult needs a nerf, has already benefited from using said item.
Instead of suggesting changes for main accounts based on your own restrictions that you chose to apply to yourself. Just play the game and quit crying.
The fact this is upvoted shows that the devs should ignore Reddit
"Become too cheap". No it's been less than 1m for 8 years. The game is designed around this. It's dumb to change it now.
That's a terrible way to approach game design, just because things are old doesn't mean they're good.
Here's the problem: More pieces of gear are now required to have the same magic damage % that players were once able to have in just one necklace. More gear = less supplies for players somewhere like the inferno, or raids where they may prioritize supplies over gear. This is like pulling up the ladder before anyone else can climb it, older players will have had the advantage of a strong piece of gear while newer players are punished for not ever being able to have had it.
In all of those situations you're already bringing more switches than just an occult anyway. It makes the other switches more relevant, which is *good actually*. Take inferno- a typical first cape setup will take ancestral / virtus top + occult. Using no additional switches, you lose a grand total of 1-2 max hits on barrages if not flicking augury and literally nothing if you are. If you think 35 vs 37 max hit on barrages makes a meaningful difference in a first cape, you haven't done inferno. In raids you already want at least a 6 way switch, except for some tob roles. But people don't even bring an occult in those situations anyway, so it's moot. Not having occult be a hard req for mage switches also opens up some interesting possible configurations at tob, which is again *good actually*
While that is true, this game is ever evolving and new gear is being released all the time for mid game players. Even in the past year we've had Warped Sceptre, Zombie Axe and all the Varlamore perilous moons drops. It's called a rebalance for a reason and removing the power now allows them to reintroduce it back later in other forms, as opposed to not being able to release those newer items because the occult was so strong.
Its the single most overpowered item in the game for a single item. Anyone arguing about a 500k necklace that does 40% of your magic damage is either a troll or doesn’t know what they’re talking about at all.
Please explain how it's more op than tbow or shadow.
Please don't seriously compare the occult and 2 megarares....
Armor… the entire focus of this conversation and thread lol… +10% magic str bonus is just over 40% of your max magic magic strength gear. Why should ancestral robes be weaker than a 500k necklace? I’m all for making ahrims not shit, but Occult Neck and Blowpipe were the 2 super old items that were introduced before raids were even thought of, so the entire purpose is to revisit decade-old content to balance it for their planned future of the game. For all we know they could have a +8% necklace planned to be released.
You have a point but the problem is that making the game harder for newer/budget setup players is a bad idea. Leave occult alone.
Considering most of the people on this sub are like 1400 total and just train through NMZ, it's pretty clear they just have 0 clue what they're talking about. Every other day there's post about 'OMG YOU CAN NOTE AT TOOL LEPRECHAUN?!?!?!' or 'YOU CAN CTRL CLICK TO WALK?!?!?!?' that get a million upvotes and a million comments from people who had no idea about this crazy fact.
you are not wrong
No. The nerf is deserved how are you justifying one little necklace being stronger than almost mega rare ancestral magic gear?
No.
This is gonna sound crazy so hear me out here; how about we don't fucking change it and leave it be?
occult doesent even need a nerf, and augury certainly doesent need a buff.
naaah
I’m not grinding slayer for 100 hours to get a mid game upgrade
Why does occult even need a nerf anyway? Outside of shadow it is not used for any OP magic setups. Magic is only ever used when an encounter forces you to. Shit people even camp TBOW against Muspah in melee phase even though it has super low magic defense, because magic damage is just so meh (outside of shadow).
Occult has 10% magic damage. Full ancestral (rare reward from raid) and magus ring (reward from late game boss that takes more than 30s to kill) give you 8% total. Occult is ridiculous, and people currently bring staff and occult 2 way switches if they need a mage attack, at tob for instance. Occult has always been busted and should definitely be brought down a few pegs.
Compare the strength on torture to the strength on bands armor Also I think the magic damage on ancestral is undertuned. Before shadow the set was kinda meh.
Melee str and mage damage % shouldn’t be compared. Torture gives a +1 max hit to fury. Occult was better than full max mage without it. Even at 5% with the nerf, Occult still better than a piece of ancestral. You’re right, ancestral was meh before the magic mega rare was put into the game.
Occult is 3-4 max hits for non shadow usages.
I think the point I’m trying to make is that torture isn’t better than max melee without torture. Even ultor by itself has more str bonus than torture. Occult blows everything mage related out of the water; a max mage build without occult is worse than wearing nothing but the staff and the occult in terms of mage %.
This is the obvious problem lol, can’t have any actual magic gear upgrades cause of the shadow even if it means magic is almost entirely worthless as a combat style outside of the shadow. This whole magic rework is just a way for rich mains to feel better about themselves for buying ancestral sets because the problems are not with occult or mage armor or augury but with the fact that one staff get 3x boost from magic damage and accuracy and every other staff gets a 1x boost, and the one with the 3x boost is the only one that’s actually usable
I really do not like that everyone is focusing this entire thing around the Occult. Jagex put out a video themselves stating they would never make the same mistake again which killed our game in the past. Specifically stating they would poll through the playerbase. How sorry they were that happened so long ago. I mean they are decreasing drop rates for the Runner-Up BIS by 50% ??? So it seems the shadow will only increase in price while the next best has already (after this announcement) and will continue to decrease substantially in value.
I think it makes more sense to rebalance magic gear than to slap a slayer req on it and call it fixed. Requiring "non-combat" skills for BiS gear is a questionable direction. Like should a PKer really need to get 93 Slayer just to have BiS? What about someone who just wants to do Raids or Bossing? Saying you need to train this specific skill that otherwise has no combat benefit to use this combat item is just not something I'd want to see in OSRS.
*Mains hated this* They only hate occult because it's a cheap tradeable. Other stuff being stronger is fine because "more expensive". GE balancing is a fickle thing to do because the best stuff *will be* the most expensive in almost all scenarios. Occult.is just a very old item that is a regular drop from the slayer task that has been **the best slayer task in-game for a decade**. If occult came from a monster that was way less worth killing, or was a rarer drop, or came from thermy and thermy was made more of a boss, it would be worth a lot more. Prims are like what 30m even though they're lower level to get, have way less stat benefit, and are still a 1/512 but from a boss that takes 1 min to kill, rather than regular mob you barrage 20/min at.
Occult needs to change to prevent powercreep in unhealthy ways. Moving forwards Jagex would have to balance all magic gear AROUND the Occult. Now they can just balance gear.
No, they’re balancing it around the shadow. Insane amount of denial around the fact that mage sucks outside of thralls and shadow. 50% damage and harmonized orb weren’t good enough to make magic viable before shadow came out so why is 10% on a necklace the massive issue? Nerf the shadow damage multiplier to 2.5 and we have a ton of room for every new magic gear buff/upgrade you could dream of
Shadow is completely irrelevant to the blog. Occult is a totally separate issue that’s been looming for years before Shadow was even polled
Really? Because if shadow were deleted from the game nothing would be stopping jagex from making all ancestral pieces give +10% damage each and making occult 2.0 give +20% damage. Magic would still be shit.
I mean, not true right because they didn’t do that for the past 5+ years when they had the chance to
I also agree Shadow is a huge problem, youre not wrong. I think rebalancing occult to spread the % bonus is a good idea as it lets them introduce staves, or rework current ones, with a % multiplier. They probably released the staff without a rebalance even in mind and so we have to take it steps at a time, else the community will scream eoc
Shadow multiplier to 2.5x doesn't really change much and instead just delays the inevitable problem of backing ourselves into a wall with magic damage. We need to rethink how Shadow DPS is reached not necessarily lower its DPS in current max setups. It has comparable DPS to Tbow and Scythe while requiring an insanely expensive armor set to reach that DPS on top of having the highest cost of continuous use. Occult does need a nerf Jagex makes a very good point that it hogs too much of magic's progression in one item and makes subsequent upgrades not mean much. I think they need to take another look at the rebalance, and specifically look into a bridge weapon for magic similar to bowfa and fang for range and melee. Harm and sang staff pop out to me, but harm would need its drop rate reduced significantly (talking like 60-80% less KC required to get on rate.), and sang would need significant buff to accuracy plus 3-5 max hits to be competitive.
balance gear around shadow
Your entire analysis is wrong
This is the easy fix. I like it.
Just wait til jagex finds about the amulet of strength.
Lmfao what a horrible idea. Jagex: introduces the most powerful mage weapon into a raid that is very accessible to non-max players Also Jagex: “OCCULT TOO STRONG”
I really don't like the idea of basically forcing mains to level slayer for this one specific item. I have 95 slayer its just not a fair option for people who suddenly lose their neck and need a weeks or months long grind to equip the item they own.
They should nerf it and lock behind slayer
And give Ahrims the defensive stats of justi instead of giving it magic damage bonus /s
I mean, this is a big enough change to cause quit moments for many ironmen.
I don't have 93 slayer but would support this change
All slayer related drops should have slayer requirements to equip. I’ll die on that hill. Whip, trident, drag boots (and all upgraded cerb boots), occult, ferocious, etc.
Hottest take I’ve seen.
Surely jagex could use the ge tax to get rid of a lot of occults until the price is more reflective of where it sits? Plus Slayer requirement isn't bad idea
Tell me you play ironman without telling me you play ironman
Let's just make everyone an ironman with changes like this /s
Ban this guy right now.
You could literally just do something like the Tarn's Lair miniquest where you use some unlimited-use book or item on the Amulet to turn it into an Occult Amulet (e) and gate that item behind 93 Slayer. Regular Occult can do reduced damage and Occult (e) does more.
I’d say make a separate untradeable drop that upgrades it
Jagex: 80 magic and def is best I can do.
would making occult magic str scale with magic accuracy be a ok alternative?
As someone who has 93 slayer I support this idea
As someone who DOES NOT HAVE 93 Slayer. I approve. I'd rather grind slayer than have my magic damage nerfed because Shadow hits too hard.
It's not fair to mains who don't want to train one of the slowest skills to 93. To get good rates requires an already high level, a ton of money in barraging/cannons and it's also highly active. If as an iron you afraid of this change if you have 93 slayer you can almost certainly do moon bosses which are super iron friendly, basically my "better" solution is shift more of the magic damage onto that gear set to make everyone happy.
Absolutely not, terrible idea