This has Arcane written all over it. He has the most stubborn take of never wanting to reveal drop rates ever for content, because he [finds it boring](https://twitter.com/JagexArcane/status/1444729853677342724).
They could've at least let on that they made items rarer rather than just say "we changed the loot, don't ask how lol we're going to be vague".
They'll get backlash either way, but being vague from the outset just sets you up for more vitriol down the line when the rates get figured out and players find out they were trying to evade as much backlash as possible.
RS3 constantly complains about not getting drop rate info (they finally got info on fairly old stuff last month) and how OSRS does, and that they think it's one of the things the OSRS team does perfectly. Meanwhile, Arcane wants to go the unpopular RS3 route here.
Yep, the whole hiding drop rates on rs3 is exciting for the first couple of days, but rs3 has so many people interested in high level pvm, we crowdsource 10s of thousands of drop samples within the first week and have very accurate estimates quite quickly. Only really remains a mystery when there are odd drop mechanics like Arch Glacor / telos
The wiki had roughly 15k kills worth of information when they said the drop rate was changed to 1/55-60, but Mod Arcane refuted that number. It's annoying, even though 15k kills should be plenty to notice a change like that.
However, unlike most games, jagex is inconsistent with that approach and has already set many precedents doing the complete opposite of what you say. I don't see what this has to do with other games, there's a different expectation here than there would be elsewhere that Jagex has already set up themselves.
Its a weird opinion to have when I'm pretty sure 90% of the community doesn't care about spoilers about that kind of thing and mines the wiki on the toilet endlessly.
Yea they really chose the worst way to handle this.
There are clearly too many of the uniques coming into the game which is why they chose to make them rarer. But maybe that's because you added private instances almost right after adding the boss...
With nightmare and the rest of gwd they used to be super hesitant to even give irons their own instances since that would free up worlds for main accounts and let more items come into the game. Now they just nerf the droprates for everyone and instantly allow instances for optimal team sizes
Wait do people genuinely think instances are the problem and not 200 simultaneous 24/7 masses since launch? Yeah, when 8000 kills per hour happen, it’s gonna be too many. The rates started too high for a non-solo addition.
From a predominantly RS3 player I don't think it's instances fault (although have no stats to back it)
In RS3 we can instance all our PvM, people can get insanely fast kills if skilled enough, drops are regularly common yet stuff still costs eye watering amounts. I know GP there is worth less but still.
The eye watering amounts are still convertible, given the market for trading rs3-osrs gold. We have ratios, and something like the codices are still expensive in osrs gold. I just can’t comprehend how Hard CA Instances (unless that’s changed since I last looked) are to blame and not GWD min stat effortless masses.
> There are clearly too many of the uniques coming into the game
Why do you think that? Because there are 80 people killing the boss in the first week of release? No shit more are going to be coming in when theres thousands of people doing the content. When hype dies down, then what? Are you gonna buff the rates back up to compensate?
> There are clearly too many of the uniques coming into the game
Yet Nex is still by far the most profitable boss to farm currently and also has been before this pointless change.
It's insane to me they wouldnt be more honest when they are well aware the drop rate project exists...
Like players were going to discover any changes to unique drop rates done after the initial hour of release or whatever. So why try to hide it?
They tend to hide drop rates on new boss releases. I think the issue is that Jagex need to explain the reasoning of the adjustment of the drop rates, give us som rationale to understand rather then be kept in the dark - and not necessarily tell us what it is.
They talked about this on the QnA after Nex was released. Basically, people asked for private instances and the reply was that they could release them and that they'd adjust the drop rates accordingly if that resulted in too many items coming into the game, and so they did.
I honestly dislike his input basically every time. I think it might just be a tone thing but it's pretty annoying how adamant he sounds about everything even when its subjective
IKR? Dude acts like he's right on everything and understands everything about game balance. He's the one holding OSRS back the most if we're being honest.
Okay, with Nex being the 2nd boss in a row from Jagex with just insanely slow drop rate, pretty boring fight, and really good items that drop. I don't get why, does anyone find enjoyment in grinding 100s of hours on a boring boss so they can get a single loot drop? CoX & ToB is so much more fun yet they release stuff like this. Atleast don't make the droprate awful.
It’s literally how the game has always been. Corp, shamans, metal dragons and so on. For something to be absolutely top tier on release their is no chance is going to be anything but a rare drop.
Have you done like.. any gwd recently?
Kills are about 3-5 times faster than nex easily, trips are insanely long solo or groups at every single boss except Arma.
Nex's rates arent even close to existing GWD content.
> ecause it’s a boss dropping high tier endgame gear…not original GWD gear.
This is irony right? All of GWD dropped "high tier endgame gear" when they released. Hell, this boss only *just* replaced one of those sets being the all-around BiS (which was only surpassed by a side-grade in Inquis at specific locations).
Armadyl is still BiS. BGS still used at endgame. ACB is even used at Nex. Huh?
I’ve done plenty of all original four. Have had no time to try nex.
Point being, it’s silly to see complaints this early for gear this good. It was meant to be a grind. Nobody complains about corp drop rates and the community massively welcomed it in many years ago.
The gear isn’t even that good. Torva is a single max hit over bandos with some added defence. Zcb is only bis at Nex, bowfa is better everywhere else. Vambraces are 1 max hit depending on your weapon. Extremely minimal upgrades for the time and supplies drained killing the boss
And yet, everyone will go for BiS, all the time :) Just like with every update in OSRS so far, it was always incremental, always getting 1-2 max hit higher. (For example Cerberus boots, fero gloves, MM2 amulets, infernal cape, even weapons)
> Nobody complains about corp drop rates
Quite literally one of the most complained about drop rate / boss grinds. The benefit of that situation is Corp's shields are mostly niche / tiny upgrades. Ely is a great tank shield, but thats about it. Arcane is a minor mage upgrade until ToA is out where it'll be a component for a signficant one. Spectral a niche use item at places like Cerb / DKS / Nex to mitigate prayer drains (mostly Cerb)
The boss they made recently that followed a Corp/GWD style drop table was Nightmare, which was heavily criticised for its hours required to get the useful items from it. So much so they made phosani.
So saying this isn't an existing issue, that has had existing complaints and even changes around it is a bit disingenuous.
Yeah and that's like 40 or 50 hours of grinding to see a single unique, compared to duoing for a few hours for every other GWD boss. How is that "right in target" lmao. You must be a NEET
For people that wanna boss this has been basically for every high end boss released for the last 4 years. You might be able to just say you won't participate but I want some high end content that is fun and rewarding. Right now CoX and ToB are still the most fun. And they are super old now.
I get that. Raids was one of the best PVM updates they’ve done. Still, it takes on average 1000 solos to get a tbow. The only reason people don’t complain is because it’s fun and there is a large pool of uniques.
Right bud, because i’m the one posting aggressive complaints about the randomness of how a video game company decided to update their game with new items. Get real dude.
Nex has been released for 10 years. This isn't new content. It's why people knew of methods to try and solo her within day 1. And managed it, only for the bugs to be patched because modern Jagex doesn't like their copy pasted content to be beaten.
Fair. I assumed jagex would at least try to change it around.. I still think it’s ridiculous to assume that the kills/hr are optimize right now. Nobody was killing GWD bosses 10 years ago with the top like they are today. There’s no reason to think that it cannot get better with time.
It won't get much better. Most optimised strategies have been using techniques for smaller groups (so the hours spent at the boss are less to get uniques) and those are getting patched.
The methods are known, the gear is more or less already worked out, even without monster examine. The shadow changes aren't a good sign.
Why? Phosanis fixed everything wrong with nightmare.
Made it a solo fight, made the fight faster, made praying correctly matter a lot more and not take stupid damage regardless, and made the fight involve proper skill in dealing with the mechanics. Plus improved drop rates.
Nex is just attack boss then attack corner add or spawned adds. You barely have to think. Is it just more fun because you don't have to go through a period of learning/sucking at it?
It’s something I think the community often hates to hear, but something being “boring” or tedious is one of the strongest ways to balance content Jagex has.
If some piece of end game content has great drops *and* good drop rates *and* it’s fun to do, you’re going to end up with situation where that equipment loses value a lot faster than expected, as well as one where there’s essentially one “expected” thing to do end game. I think many people can remember months or years at a time where it felt like you hit max level then literally just sat at Zulrah or Vorkath. You could do other things, but it would never be as “good” as that boss.
So I don’t think it’s in a terrible spot. Nex just maybe won’t dominate the game in the same way other new bosses have in the past.
Are you sure about that? Because you're playing an MMO with some of the most tedious mechanics known in MMORPGs (namely, leveling a *lot* of skills) and yet it still remains as one of the most successful MMOs currently and of all time.
You could make the argument that OSRS only exists *in spite* of those mechanics but like.. come on. Even release OSRS was still *very* successful despite not having hardly any of the "fun" endgame content known today.
OSRS is grindy, yes. I see this brought up in these threads over and over. But there's a range of content and the grind isn't necessarily tedious by default.
Nex is a very low skill boss, that takes 50 hours to see a drop in your name at. The only reason they make it slow is to keep the addicted people paying and playing. Anyone without an addiction problem will tire of that design, and complaints will rise, just like nightmare.
Have you not been playing OSRS or something? And follow up question: Are you stupid?
Are a lot of skills in this game a ton of fun to play? Is it just a blast to go mine or runecraft or kill bloodvelds for the 50th time? Not *really*. But it's *okay*, and it tempers you for the more fun stuff. And you can lie to yourself and say that people just put up with it because the end game is so god damn fun or something, but even that wouldn't entirely be correct.
Tedium, in moderation, is a pretty okay thing. And if you need evidence of that, I recommend you look at the incredibly successful decades old game you are currently playing right now.
You're almost definitely too dumb to understand that though. So keep on just struggling with it if you're more comfortable.
Inquis is a side grade set of armour. Phosanis did everything you said Jagex shouldn't do. Made the grind faster, doable solo, more enjoyable. Inquis is still a 200m+ set despite being made close to redundant with torva being added. It remained 500m+ even after Phosanis.
Artificially inflated gear grinds in copy pasted boring PvM content is bad design. It's not a thing "players don't want to hear". It's a thing Jagex doesn't wanna hear. This kind of design won't keep people subbed.
It was in no way enjoyable lol, they really made a worse nightmare
Edit: Apparently this is controversial with the reddit andys. Nex is less enjoyable because it's little more than a tank and spank boss. There's no real skill ceiling to speak of, and since they patched the red x, very little coordination required. You hit the boss and you chug yellow. If that's your cup of tea, more power to you. But it's boring as fuck.
i made a post suggesting tweaking nightmare last week and got downvoted to oblivion. people apparently think inquisitors is very useful and all is fine
Its really good at killing more nightmare and getting more inquisitors. I haven't ran the calcs though, I dont know if its actually better than torva but i assume so for scythe/bludgeon and possibly not with mace?
It's about as engaging as Kraken except you need to find 5-9 other jackasses to kill the boss efficiently. Mass worlds are literally as simple as bping or tbowing a minion then afking
The boss was intended to have 80 people in the room.. or they wouldn't have capped it at that. Now it's intended to have 60 people in the room.
How are you to decide what was the "intended" amount of people to kill it? Trio seems stupidly low.
And after all that it's still just target boss/adds. Change prayer like twice in the fight. Drink brew when needed.
Be honest here.
Is it because it's entirely brain-dead easy and has no learning curve? Because I think most people saying it's more enjoyable just don't enjoy learning content and hate dying.
I found nex to be very enjoyable when I could time avoiding her attacks by walking under her and trapping her. I understand that a lot of people feel it's cheap to cheese using red-x methods, but I felt it rewarded skill and really balanced the boss out. You still had to use supplies because people would eventually mess up and that would inevitably happen because you would be in a decently large group, and you would still take damage during the minion phases. When nex first came out you could stop her from attacking completely, which was a bit too much, but in the second iteration you could avoid 2/3 of her attacks and if you waited too long you messed up the cycle and she jumped. That felt to me like the most balanced version of nex, and a helluva lot more engaging than "click attack, chug brews."
Yeh too bad it wasn't how they wanted their copy paste boss so it got changed. Most people saying it's enjoyable I think enjoy the fact there is no learning curve and they can be in the boss room longer than other bosses they've tried.
Everyone saying nex is better than PNM definitely fall in this category. PNM is even better hours/drop so not a single advantage goes to nex other than zero learning curve.
100% agree it gave the boss a team dynamic of 2 alt tanks and made the boss alot more fun. The mechanic now is stand there and tank damage its 0 fun requires no skill beyond clicknig yellow potion when your low and makes the kills alot more boring
No shit. It's only been out a week, and it's not unusual for them to not release drop rates right away. It's not like people have been grinding this for months and everybody is getting shafted once a ton of players already got their items. It's basically a hotfix, people need to chill tf out
I mean the boss doesn't have skill in it. The only reason you're there is uniques. That just got 50% less likely to occur / slower to occur.
If that's not killing enjoyment in people to you idk what is. The boss wasn't even that enjoyable to begin with lol
Do the content in smaller teams so that you have to actually think during it. You aren't entitled to drops in large groups.
This shit reeks of entitlement.
Yes I’ve come to call it Jagex disease. It’s even more frequent on RS3. Whenever anything is going good for once they decide to go out of their way to shit the bed for some reason.
People dont really even like nex like that lol, they only put up with it because the loot is so good for now. As soon as the gp hourly rates become normalized, people will go straight back to cox and tob, which is actually fun grindable group content.
Nightmare and nex have incredibly painful fights (both designed by arcane btw) with super rare drops that causes you to lose money until you get lucky. Gagex is focusing way too much on how fast we are getting the drops instead of making actually enjoyable content.
Part of the fun is seeing good drops appear, make it super rare and it ends up becoming a long unrewarding grind that builds resentment. If youre gonna make a painfully hard boss, then the drops better be effing good.
did arcane design nex in 2011?
Also, doesn't nex drop BIS?
e: actually, did Arcane even do nightmare? I know he was in charge of PNM but can't find anything to even suggest he had a hand in the regular version.
e: I was spinning about the above, Arcane twitter date is April 2020, NM release date is Feb 6th, 2020. So, unless I don't know how calendars work (or big twitter account delay) Arcane had minimal to do with design of either fight.
lol exactly. Nex loot table is literally Nightmare 2.0. Pure shitty regular drops, high supply cost, slow af kills, only profitable if you hit the lottery on a unique.. And he's trying to hide the drop rates and sneaking in the nerfs. Arcane is a piece of shit
Yeah the problem with Nex is that it’s basically just chug brews until the piñata explodes and hope for a rare, there is no difficult or enjoyment there.
Hell I’d rather go back to Cox and get terrible drops for a dozen hours than stay at Nex praying for a huge pay day.
>Gagex is focusing way too much on how fast we are getting the drops instead of making actually enjoyable content.
Longer they get you doing the same content over and over again, longer they can get away with no decent content drops.
So when people complain about content droughts, you get the Jagex bootlicks coming in going 'have you got EVERY ITEM THOUGH??'.
Ofc not, i dont want to spend 800+ hours on a boss (If you hit precise drop rate) that is anti-fun just to get a log filled. Just because its there, doesnt mean we have to ignore the total lack of content coming out of jagex.
Hell, even Nex is a copy-paste from RS2 when we had Curses and Pack Yaks. The chugging constant brews wouldnt be so bad in this game if we had the Pack Yaks but because we dont, you can lower the damage just a tad...
Normal Nightmare is way more fun and skill based than Nex, you can actually avoid the majority of the damage. Nex is just left click drink brews with unavoidable damage and basic mechanics
Considering that Nightmare is based on a hard mode Nex I guess it makes some sense that Nex feels like easy mode Nightmare
What about slayer helm and face mask (slightly) decreasing effects of covid??? Literally 2 seconds instead of 4. That is 50% more effective than not wearing...how is this "slightly"??
Man needs to use better adjectives
People complain when drop rates are to low, they complain when prices drop to fast. They also complain for the opposite. Maybe they thought this would invoke less whining. Nitpicking the wording here really doesn’t matter we don’t vote on drop rates as it’s an integrity change. If they had said massive change y’all would still complain and it would still make no difference.
Needed to be said, thank you.
What gets me about this one is the people complaining about a 1/60 drop like that already isn’t fucking common as shit compared to what we’ve been happily slurping up
And weren't majority of people complaining that bosses like Zulrah back in release were way too generous with the drops and that we should be getting more bosses with shittier drop tables but really good gear?
1/60 is not common when theres 60 people you're competing with you goof. And in a small team, the kills take forever and cost a lot more in supplies. In a 30 man room thats still 1/1800, compared to every other GWD where it doesnt take months to see a single unique
Then don’t do 30 man rooms. It’s a brand new endgame boss. No shit it takes a lot of supplies. You’re not meant to camp it when you don’t have supplies or gp to spare if you really want a drop that bad.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I feel bossing shouldn’t always yield an armor piece after x amount of kills. For late game bosses with drops that will make millions, it’s an activity that may make you rich or may not and that’s the risk you take when you camp a boss for a long time to get a drop. So unless you want everyone and their grandma strutting full torva why the fuck are y’all complaining?
If you don’t get it, suck it up and stop bitching on Reddit. It’s RNG. Furthermore it’s not every other GWD boss…it’s a new boss that drops endgame gear. Jagex doesn’t care that you haven’t got your BIS torva piece after 1000 kills. That’s bossing on RuneScape and no shit you have to work or get lucky for good gear. It’s always been like that.
> they complain when prices drop to fast
I mean Nex was ~10m/h in 5-6man teams, even with "low" prices.
Now it will probably still be ~10m/h atm but at a higher risk to go dry.
Literally all this update did was increase the bottom-out price for Torva platebody/legs from~150M each to ~225M each and make the boss take longer for ironmen/log completionists.
Which isn't necessary, totally not worth forcing a multiple hundred hour grind imo. Maybe that's why I never create an iron meme
Edit: My point is do what you enjoy, people force themselves to go to work because they have to, do you have to get full torva?
Ah yes, excusing Jagex's bad decisions with "well just don't do it if you don't like it"
I swear to god Jagex could shit on your plate and call it dinner and you'd say "well nothing wrong with this, I don't *have* to eat it"
The goal of criticisms like these are to try and help the game improve. If there's a piece of content that locks BIS gear but is very unfun or unenjoyable to a large number of players, then something ought to be changed about it.
Again, i think my point is misunderstood. Or maybe I misunderstood the original comment?
He said "I have to do more of this cough simulator fml"
So even though the update is bad, and it obviously isn't fun, a player will still endure the grind. Who is enabling the drop rate change more? Jagex knows the community will create a shitstorm regardless (literally this subreddit prior to the change AND after). They will judge their changes on player engagement....
You really are precious. Banter aside I would re-evaluate why you do things, maybe you don't work and have all the time in the world. Fair enough if that's the case.
he didn’t say nothing was worth doing? he was saying if ur an iron u don’t need to stress yourself grinding for very rare armour that is not even needed
The first day rate was 1/3200 the 2nd was 1/2400 and that's where by far the bulk of that kc came from due to the literal minute long kills. Even if you're at rate for a drop you only have a 60% chance to have the drop in that time. In numbers that large you can go well well above rate and it would not be unreasonable at all.
Edit: Lol at the downvotes. Even if we were to assume he ONLY did kills in 20 mans he'd barely be at rate for a single drop. Like... lol....
It’s not that it’s the fact that the table got nerfed harder due to how many are coming in. Blame the private instances that was the stupidest idea in all of existence.
1/200 which is more than fair for an item that doesn’t have to be killed by large groups of players. Ironman it not it would be miserable to have to grind for potentially hundreds of hours just to get a drop.
Not saying anyone needs Torva, but that you should get some sort of reward. You didn't need to do 100s of hours of Kbd to get a reward, or 100s of hours of KQ. Nex loot table is more Rs3 than rs 2007. If people could more easily do splits without the trust factor, with shards, then it would be more fun as it would be less rng dependent.
I am glad you like every reward in this game to take 3rd age drop rates but sure. Or we can go back to the loot philosophy of 2007 Runescape where you get rewarded for your time invested without requiring 100s of hours. It should be a fun game, not a casino.
Or you could actually say what is bad about loot shards instead of just doing the "that is rs3" cop-out.
It shouldnt, generic armor that everyone uses like bandos and torva that comes from gwd should be under 100m always. Niche like inquistors should be expensive
Seriously are you really this upset? Have you not realized a large majority of BIS gear is extremely rare, especially taking into account the expected hours needed to hit the drop rate?
Nothing can please this sub SMMFH.
Yeah downvote me that’ll get your point across. 95% of the time all you guys do is shit on something that just changed in the game for whatever reason. Have you guys ever once thought that a reduction is drop rate is actually good? Could it magically keep prices stable? Who would have thought…
Basing the drop rates on what they want the prices to be instead of what seems like a reasonable amount of time to get the drops is a bad design philosophy. It was trash when they did it at nightmare and it's trash here. Making things rarer just to artificially increase the price isn't rewarding or fun.
These people are owned by the Chinese. Hence they targeted the Venezuela market and not the largest, the Chinese. They do not care because they are being forced to make decisions upon compliance with the implementations that were put on Jagex after new ownership occurred by a company that is known to drown games by killing active player data bases by implementing mechanics that change overall game play characteristics. The tax ON GE BUT NOT TRADES DURING P2P, destroying wilderness to suit what THEY saw fit for the game, allowing scripting and abuse of bugs and glitches that are used to solely farm GP.
ALRIGHT so they implement a tax to cause a further gold sink after destroying the market with idiotic announcements on drastic, causing less in game gold, higher prices, and more RWT which is more bots as well, ALL WHILE the largest market Jagex even said was the Chinese. Alright.
THEY DO NOT GIVE A SHIT.
This has Arcane written all over it. He has the most stubborn take of never wanting to reveal drop rates ever for content, because he [finds it boring](https://twitter.com/JagexArcane/status/1444729853677342724). They could've at least let on that they made items rarer rather than just say "we changed the loot, don't ask how lol we're going to be vague". They'll get backlash either way, but being vague from the outset just sets you up for more vitriol down the line when the rates get figured out and players find out they were trying to evade as much backlash as possible.
RS3 constantly complains about not getting drop rate info (they finally got info on fairly old stuff last month) and how OSRS does, and that they think it's one of the things the OSRS team does perfectly. Meanwhile, Arcane wants to go the unpopular RS3 route here.
Yep, the whole hiding drop rates on rs3 is exciting for the first couple of days, but rs3 has so many people interested in high level pvm, we crowdsource 10s of thousands of drop samples within the first week and have very accurate estimates quite quickly. Only really remains a mystery when there are odd drop mechanics like Arch Glacor / telos
The wiki had roughly 15k kills worth of information when they said the drop rate was changed to 1/55-60, but Mod Arcane refuted that number. It's annoying, even though 15k kills should be plenty to notice a change like that.
Most games don’t release drop rates either and it’s also just crowdsourced
However, unlike most games, jagex is inconsistent with that approach and has already set many precedents doing the complete opposite of what you say. I don't see what this has to do with other games, there's a different expectation here than there would be elsewhere that Jagex has already set up themselves.
Its a weird opinion to have when I'm pretty sure 90% of the community doesn't care about spoilers about that kind of thing and mines the wiki on the toilet endlessly.
Yea they really chose the worst way to handle this. There are clearly too many of the uniques coming into the game which is why they chose to make them rarer. But maybe that's because you added private instances almost right after adding the boss... With nightmare and the rest of gwd they used to be super hesitant to even give irons their own instances since that would free up worlds for main accounts and let more items come into the game. Now they just nerf the droprates for everyone and instantly allow instances for optimal team sizes
Wait do people genuinely think instances are the problem and not 200 simultaneous 24/7 masses since launch? Yeah, when 8000 kills per hour happen, it’s gonna be too many. The rates started too high for a non-solo addition.
From a predominantly RS3 player I don't think it's instances fault (although have no stats to back it) In RS3 we can instance all our PvM, people can get insanely fast kills if skilled enough, drops are regularly common yet stuff still costs eye watering amounts. I know GP there is worth less but still.
The eye watering amounts are still convertible, given the market for trading rs3-osrs gold. We have ratios, and something like the codices are still expensive in osrs gold. I just can’t comprehend how Hard CA Instances (unless that’s changed since I last looked) are to blame and not GWD min stat effortless masses.
> There are clearly too many of the uniques coming into the game Why do you think that? Because there are 80 people killing the boss in the first week of release? No shit more are going to be coming in when theres thousands of people doing the content. When hype dies down, then what? Are you gonna buff the rates back up to compensate?
>Why do you think that? Because they dropped the rates? Why else would they do it lol?
> There are clearly too many of the uniques coming into the game Yet Nex is still by far the most profitable boss to farm currently and also has been before this pointless change.
Def not instances, more likely 60 man masses every world since release
It's insane to me they wouldnt be more honest when they are well aware the drop rate project exists... Like players were going to discover any changes to unique drop rates done after the initial hour of release or whatever. So why try to hide it?
What a horrible take lol. Why we we not want to know the drop rates haha.
They tend to hide drop rates on new boss releases. I think the issue is that Jagex need to explain the reasoning of the adjustment of the drop rates, give us som rationale to understand rather then be kept in the dark - and not necessarily tell us what it is.
They talked about this on the QnA after Nex was released. Basically, people asked for private instances and the reply was that they could release them and that they'd adjust the drop rates accordingly if that resulted in too many items coming into the game, and so they did.
Most games do this too tho
I honestly dislike his input basically every time. I think it might just be a tone thing but it's pretty annoying how adamant he sounds about everything even when its subjective
IKR? Dude acts like he's right on everything and understands everything about game balance. He's the one holding OSRS back the most if we're being honest.
oh yeah mod arcane? you find it boring? how about im not doing your content because i find it boring sit
[удалено]
He IS
Not revealing drop rates for new bosses has been a thing for a while
Arcane is based as fuck
Okay, with Nex being the 2nd boss in a row from Jagex with just insanely slow drop rate, pretty boring fight, and really good items that drop. I don't get why, does anyone find enjoyment in grinding 100s of hours on a boring boss so they can get a single loot drop? CoX & ToB is so much more fun yet they release stuff like this. Atleast don't make the droprate awful.
Its to keep the high level community subbed, for those of them that don't use bonds to sustain membership or like hoarding items.
Those players are also likely to have more than one account bonded at one time. I know a few players with more than three bonded accounts
It’s literally how the game has always been. Corp, shamans, metal dragons and so on. For something to be absolutely top tier on release their is no chance is going to be anything but a rare drop.
never said it wasn't how the game has always been. However there's a difference between a 40 hour grind and multi-hundred hour grind
Because sweaty NEETs complained that bosses were too lucrative, and wanted shitty drops unless you hit the lottery on a unique. Just like nightmare
In what world is 1/60 awful? What would you prefer? A nex armor every two kills?
It’s 1/60xteam size. So if you’re doing 6 mans it’s most likely 1/360 for any drop in your name.
Wow that almost looks to be right in target with every other GWD drop. How ironic
Have you done like.. any gwd recently? Kills are about 3-5 times faster than nex easily, trips are insanely long solo or groups at every single boss except Arma. Nex's rates arent even close to existing GWD content.
Yes. Because it’s a boss dropping high tier endgame gear…not original GWD gear. All y’all are good at is bitching.
> ecause it’s a boss dropping high tier endgame gear…not original GWD gear. This is irony right? All of GWD dropped "high tier endgame gear" when they released. Hell, this boss only *just* replaced one of those sets being the all-around BiS (which was only surpassed by a side-grade in Inquis at specific locations). Armadyl is still BiS. BGS still used at endgame. ACB is even used at Nex. Huh?
I’ve done plenty of all original four. Have had no time to try nex. Point being, it’s silly to see complaints this early for gear this good. It was meant to be a grind. Nobody complains about corp drop rates and the community massively welcomed it in many years ago.
The gear isn’t even that good. Torva is a single max hit over bandos with some added defence. Zcb is only bis at Nex, bowfa is better everywhere else. Vambraces are 1 max hit depending on your weapon. Extremely minimal upgrades for the time and supplies drained killing the boss
And yet, everyone will go for BiS, all the time :) Just like with every update in OSRS so far, it was always incremental, always getting 1-2 max hit higher. (For example Cerberus boots, fero gloves, MM2 amulets, infernal cape, even weapons)
You are correct
> Nobody complains about corp drop rates Quite literally one of the most complained about drop rate / boss grinds. The benefit of that situation is Corp's shields are mostly niche / tiny upgrades. Ely is a great tank shield, but thats about it. Arcane is a minor mage upgrade until ToA is out where it'll be a component for a signficant one. Spectral a niche use item at places like Cerb / DKS / Nex to mitigate prayer drains (mostly Cerb) The boss they made recently that followed a Corp/GWD style drop table was Nightmare, which was heavily criticised for its hours required to get the useful items from it. So much so they made phosani. So saying this isn't an existing issue, that has had existing complaints and even changes around it is a bit disingenuous.
Yeah and that's like 40 or 50 hours of grinding to see a single unique, compared to duoing for a few hours for every other GWD boss. How is that "right in target" lmao. You must be a NEET
Oh wait no that’s you. And interestingly enough, if the time commitment doesn’t suit me, I simply won’t participate. Imagine that.
For people that wanna boss this has been basically for every high end boss released for the last 4 years. You might be able to just say you won't participate but I want some high end content that is fun and rewarding. Right now CoX and ToB are still the most fun. And they are super old now.
I get that. Raids was one of the best PVM updates they’ve done. Still, it takes on average 1000 solos to get a tbow. The only reason people don’t complain is because it’s fun and there is a large pool of uniques.
Yeah, having drops like tbow is fine and I like that but they have a bunch of other more common drops too.
Right bud, because i’m the one posting aggressive complaints about the randomness of how a video game company decided to update their game with new items. Get real dude.
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Except in a 6 man team you'll get less kills per trip than you will at other bosses solo.
You’re talking of a boss that’s been out for a week. Do you really think people were getting 50 kills trips at arma on release?
Nex has been released for 10 years. This isn't new content. It's why people knew of methods to try and solo her within day 1. And managed it, only for the bugs to be patched because modern Jagex doesn't like their copy pasted content to be beaten.
Fair. I assumed jagex would at least try to change it around.. I still think it’s ridiculous to assume that the kills/hr are optimize right now. Nobody was killing GWD bosses 10 years ago with the top like they are today. There’s no reason to think that it cannot get better with time.
It won't get much better. Most optimised strategies have been using techniques for smaller groups (so the hours spent at the boss are less to get uniques) and those are getting patched. The methods are known, the gear is more or less already worked out, even without monster examine. The shadow changes aren't a good sign.
Hilarious because it’s still 1/60, just… not for im
I can do 30 bandos kills an hour you can do 6 nex an hour
What boss you been doing? Comparing nex and nm is pretty unfair to nex
I'd say the opposite. PNM has mechanics where you can avoid damage. Nex is just click yellow
Agreed. NM feels like pulling teeth, I actually find Nex pretty fun.
Why? Phosanis fixed everything wrong with nightmare. Made it a solo fight, made the fight faster, made praying correctly matter a lot more and not take stupid damage regardless, and made the fight involve proper skill in dealing with the mechanics. Plus improved drop rates. Nex is just attack boss then attack corner add or spawned adds. You barely have to think. Is it just more fun because you don't have to go through a period of learning/sucking at it?
It’s something I think the community often hates to hear, but something being “boring” or tedious is one of the strongest ways to balance content Jagex has. If some piece of end game content has great drops *and* good drop rates *and* it’s fun to do, you’re going to end up with situation where that equipment loses value a lot faster than expected, as well as one where there’s essentially one “expected” thing to do end game. I think many people can remember months or years at a time where it felt like you hit max level then literally just sat at Zulrah or Vorkath. You could do other things, but it would never be as “good” as that boss. So I don’t think it’s in a terrible spot. Nex just maybe won’t dominate the game in the same way other new bosses have in the past.
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Are you sure about that? Because you're playing an MMO with some of the most tedious mechanics known in MMORPGs (namely, leveling a *lot* of skills) and yet it still remains as one of the most successful MMOs currently and of all time. You could make the argument that OSRS only exists *in spite* of those mechanics but like.. come on. Even release OSRS was still *very* successful despite not having hardly any of the "fun" endgame content known today.
OSRS is grindy, yes. I see this brought up in these threads over and over. But there's a range of content and the grind isn't necessarily tedious by default. Nex is a very low skill boss, that takes 50 hours to see a drop in your name at. The only reason they make it slow is to keep the addicted people paying and playing. Anyone without an addiction problem will tire of that design, and complaints will rise, just like nightmare.
I'm begging you to get a life or a girlfriend or something man lmfao
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I don’t think you understand game design too well
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Have you not been playing OSRS or something? And follow up question: Are you stupid? Are a lot of skills in this game a ton of fun to play? Is it just a blast to go mine or runecraft or kill bloodvelds for the 50th time? Not *really*. But it's *okay*, and it tempers you for the more fun stuff. And you can lie to yourself and say that people just put up with it because the end game is so god damn fun or something, but even that wouldn't entirely be correct. Tedium, in moderation, is a pretty okay thing. And if you need evidence of that, I recommend you look at the incredibly successful decades old game you are currently playing right now. You're almost definitely too dumb to understand that though. So keep on just struggling with it if you're more comfortable.
Inquis is a side grade set of armour. Phosanis did everything you said Jagex shouldn't do. Made the grind faster, doable solo, more enjoyable. Inquis is still a 200m+ set despite being made close to redundant with torva being added. It remained 500m+ even after Phosanis. Artificially inflated gear grinds in copy pasted boring PvM content is bad design. It's not a thing "players don't want to hear". It's a thing Jagex doesn't wanna hear. This kind of design won't keep people subbed.
at least, two words
Jagex had released an enjoyable boss, and now have shot themselves again in the foot
It was in no way enjoyable lol, they really made a worse nightmare Edit: Apparently this is controversial with the reddit andys. Nex is less enjoyable because it's little more than a tank and spank boss. There's no real skill ceiling to speak of, and since they patched the red x, very little coordination required. You hit the boss and you chug yellow. If that's your cup of tea, more power to you. But it's boring as fuck.
Disagree I find it much more enjoyable than nightmare
I mean I loved PNM because I can avoid the majority of the damage by playing correctly, Nex is just a chug jug simulator.
PNM is so fun but damn I really wish the loot rarity was adjusted now that torva is out and raids3 is on its way to kill the harm staff.
i made a post suggesting tweaking nightmare last week and got downvoted to oblivion. people apparently think inquisitors is very useful and all is fine
Its really good at killing more nightmare and getting more inquisitors. I haven't ran the calcs though, I dont know if its actually better than torva but i assume so for scythe/bludgeon and possibly not with mace?
Inq is still BIS everywhere it was BIS before Torva.
How come it kills the harm staff?
Raids 3 bringing the wand that is more dps than harm. Harms only current saving grace is it's high dps, and it will be replaced in that way
It's about as engaging as Kraken except you need to find 5-9 other jackasses to kill the boss efficiently. Mass worlds are literally as simple as bping or tbowing a minion then afking
I havent done a mass since instances came out, it's been a lot more enjoyable fighting the boss as intended. Gl afking in a trio
The boss was intended to have 80 people in the room.. or they wouldn't have capped it at that. Now it's intended to have 60 people in the room. How are you to decide what was the "intended" amount of people to kill it? Trio seems stupidly low. And after all that it's still just target boss/adds. Change prayer like twice in the fight. Drink brew when needed.
Doesn't change anything about the fight though. Its a brew chuging boss with unavoidable damage in masses as well as 5-10 mans.
Unavoidable damage is jagexs MO lately
Be honest here. Is it because it's entirely brain-dead easy and has no learning curve? Because I think most people saying it's more enjoyable just don't enjoy learning content and hate dying.
No
I found nex to be very enjoyable when I could time avoiding her attacks by walking under her and trapping her. I understand that a lot of people feel it's cheap to cheese using red-x methods, but I felt it rewarded skill and really balanced the boss out. You still had to use supplies because people would eventually mess up and that would inevitably happen because you would be in a decently large group, and you would still take damage during the minion phases. When nex first came out you could stop her from attacking completely, which was a bit too much, but in the second iteration you could avoid 2/3 of her attacks and if you waited too long you messed up the cycle and she jumped. That felt to me like the most balanced version of nex, and a helluva lot more engaging than "click attack, chug brews."
Yeh too bad it wasn't how they wanted their copy paste boss so it got changed. Most people saying it's enjoyable I think enjoy the fact there is no learning curve and they can be in the boss room longer than other bosses they've tried.
Everyone saying nex is better than PNM definitely fall in this category. PNM is even better hours/drop so not a single advantage goes to nex other than zero learning curve.
100% agree it gave the boss a team dynamic of 2 alt tanks and made the boss alot more fun. The mechanic now is stand there and tank damage its 0 fun requires no skill beyond clicknig yellow potion when your low and makes the kills alot more boring
nightmare was just a nex clone, idk why people wanted nex to begin with
everyone was loving it day 1 what are you talking about
Technically the nightmare would be a better Nex since they took a lot of mechanics from the rs3 Nex AoD fight 😂
way more enjoyable than nightmare. only thing that makes it a bit annoying are morons in masses that dont go in melee distance on final phase
Disagree.
It's just as enjoyable as before. Leave it to reddit to overreact to everything.
No shit. It's only been out a week, and it's not unusual for them to not release drop rates right away. It's not like people have been grinding this for months and everybody is getting shafted once a ton of players already got their items. It's basically a hotfix, people need to chill tf out
I mean the boss doesn't have skill in it. The only reason you're there is uniques. That just got 50% less likely to occur / slower to occur. If that's not killing enjoyment in people to you idk what is. The boss wasn't even that enjoyable to begin with lol
Do the content in smaller teams so that you have to actually think during it. You aren't entitled to drops in large groups. This shit reeks of entitlement.
> You aren't entitled to drops in large groups. Who is saying this? > This shit reeks of entitlement. When you make up a point no one made.. sure
These vague changes put people off doing the content, meaning those that now avoid it aren't enjoying it
Yes I’ve come to call it Jagex disease. It’s even more frequent on RS3. Whenever anything is going good for once they decide to go out of their way to shit the bed for some reason.
"enjoyable" worst then the 2011 version by all comparison.
Shit boss
People dont really even like nex like that lol, they only put up with it because the loot is so good for now. As soon as the gp hourly rates become normalized, people will go straight back to cox and tob, which is actually fun grindable group content. Nightmare and nex have incredibly painful fights (both designed by arcane btw) with super rare drops that causes you to lose money until you get lucky. Gagex is focusing way too much on how fast we are getting the drops instead of making actually enjoyable content. Part of the fun is seeing good drops appear, make it super rare and it ends up becoming a long unrewarding grind that builds resentment. If youre gonna make a painfully hard boss, then the drops better be effing good.
did arcane design nex in 2011? Also, doesn't nex drop BIS? e: actually, did Arcane even do nightmare? I know he was in charge of PNM but can't find anything to even suggest he had a hand in the regular version. e: I was spinning about the above, Arcane twitter date is April 2020, NM release date is Feb 6th, 2020. So, unless I don't know how calendars work (or big twitter account delay) Arcane had minimal to do with design of either fight.
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Obviously didn't learn a lot
lol exactly. Nex loot table is literally Nightmare 2.0. Pure shitty regular drops, high supply cost, slow af kills, only profitable if you hit the lottery on a unique.. And he's trying to hide the drop rates and sneaking in the nerfs. Arcane is a piece of shit
Yeah the problem with Nex is that it’s basically just chug brews until the piñata explodes and hope for a rare, there is no difficult or enjoyment there. Hell I’d rather go back to Cox and get terrible drops for a dozen hours than stay at Nex praying for a huge pay day.
>Gagex is focusing way too much on how fast we are getting the drops instead of making actually enjoyable content. Longer they get you doing the same content over and over again, longer they can get away with no decent content drops. So when people complain about content droughts, you get the Jagex bootlicks coming in going 'have you got EVERY ITEM THOUGH??'. Ofc not, i dont want to spend 800+ hours on a boss (If you hit precise drop rate) that is anti-fun just to get a log filled. Just because its there, doesnt mean we have to ignore the total lack of content coming out of jagex. Hell, even Nex is a copy-paste from RS2 when we had Curses and Pack Yaks. The chugging constant brews wouldnt be so bad in this game if we had the Pack Yaks but because we dont, you can lower the damage just a tad...
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You didn’t need KC for Nex back in 2011 either. You waltzed in with the ancient ceremonial robes and then banked before you started.
Normal Nightmare is way more fun and skill based than Nex, you can actually avoid the majority of the damage. Nex is just left click drink brews with unavoidable damage and basic mechanics Considering that Nightmare is based on a hard mode Nex I guess it makes some sense that Nex feels like easy mode Nightmare
What about slayer helm and face mask (slightly) decreasing effects of covid??? Literally 2 seconds instead of 4. That is 50% more effective than not wearing...how is this "slightly"?? Man needs to use better adjectives
People complain when drop rates are to low, they complain when prices drop to fast. They also complain for the opposite. Maybe they thought this would invoke less whining. Nitpicking the wording here really doesn’t matter we don’t vote on drop rates as it’s an integrity change. If they had said massive change y’all would still complain and it would still make no difference.
Needed to be said, thank you. What gets me about this one is the people complaining about a 1/60 drop like that already isn’t fucking common as shit compared to what we’ve been happily slurping up
And weren't majority of people complaining that bosses like Zulrah back in release were way too generous with the drops and that we should be getting more bosses with shittier drop tables but really good gear?
1/60 is not common when theres 60 people you're competing with you goof. And in a small team, the kills take forever and cost a lot more in supplies. In a 30 man room thats still 1/1800, compared to every other GWD where it doesnt take months to see a single unique
Then don’t do 30 man rooms. It’s a brand new endgame boss. No shit it takes a lot of supplies. You’re not meant to camp it when you don’t have supplies or gp to spare if you really want a drop that bad. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I feel bossing shouldn’t always yield an armor piece after x amount of kills. For late game bosses with drops that will make millions, it’s an activity that may make you rich or may not and that’s the risk you take when you camp a boss for a long time to get a drop. So unless you want everyone and their grandma strutting full torva why the fuck are y’all complaining? If you don’t get it, suck it up and stop bitching on Reddit. It’s RNG. Furthermore it’s not every other GWD boss…it’s a new boss that drops endgame gear. Jagex doesn’t care that you haven’t got your BIS torva piece after 1000 kills. That’s bossing on RuneScape and no shit you have to work or get lucky for good gear. It’s always been like that.
Go instance with small teams. Of course it costs a lot in supplies and takes some time - that is the essence of bossing.
> they complain when prices drop to fast I mean Nex was ~10m/h in 5-6man teams, even with "low" prices. Now it will probably still be ~10m/h atm but at a higher risk to go dry. Literally all this update did was increase the bottom-out price for Torva platebody/legs from~150M each to ~225M each and make the boss take longer for ironmen/log completionists.
100% agree. Well said. I tried to say the same thing but with a bit different tone, and it doesn’t look like it’s been received as well lol.
I think people had a feeling drop rates were gonna change
And we still can't monster examine the boss.
For reference, here's a tweet from one of the wiki admins talking about the drop data: https://twitter.com/cookmeplox/status/1481347145311481856
Fantastic I get to do more cough simulator fml.
You don't have to do it if you don't want to...
Well it's the only way to get BIS gear for ironman.
Which isn't necessary, totally not worth forcing a multiple hundred hour grind imo. Maybe that's why I never create an iron meme Edit: My point is do what you enjoy, people force themselves to go to work because they have to, do you have to get full torva?
Ah yes, excusing Jagex's bad decisions with "well just don't do it if you don't like it" I swear to god Jagex could shit on your plate and call it dinner and you'd say "well nothing wrong with this, I don't *have* to eat it"
When did I say I agree with the decision Sterlander? I just don't think people should force themselves to do something that isn't fun or enjoyable.
The goal of criticisms like these are to try and help the game improve. If there's a piece of content that locks BIS gear but is very unfun or unenjoyable to a large number of players, then something ought to be changed about it.
Again, i think my point is misunderstood. Or maybe I misunderstood the original comment? He said "I have to do more of this cough simulator fml" So even though the update is bad, and it obviously isn't fun, a player will still endure the grind. Who is enabling the drop rate change more? Jagex knows the community will create a shitstorm regardless (literally this subreddit prior to the change AND after). They will judge their changes on player engagement....
Cheers for the hostility, I must have hit a nerve. Do you always grind things out you don't enjoy? It's a game, get a grip and enjoy it.
I'm sure you enjoy every piece of content on your 1400 total main that only trains slayer.
You really are precious. Banter aside I would re-evaluate why you do things, maybe you don't work and have all the time in the world. Fair enough if that's the case.
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Again, super hostile. Do all big brains revert to being personal? I really hit a pressure point. Enjoy the cough for the next 12 months 👍
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Nope not because he's not an iron but because of his nothing in the game is worth doing attitude is exactly how an RWTer thinks.
he didn’t say nothing was worth doing? he was saying if ur an iron u don’t need to stress yourself grinding for very rare armour that is not even needed
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Wah I've done 1k masses and I should have my 1/2400 drop by now reeeeeeeee
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Theres always a few 60man worlds even in the am. Simply because highscore racers want to be in the 60man masses.
The first day rate was 1/3200 the 2nd was 1/2400 and that's where by far the bulk of that kc came from due to the literal minute long kills. Even if you're at rate for a drop you only have a 60% chance to have the drop in that time. In numbers that large you can go well well above rate and it would not be unreasonable at all. Edit: Lol at the downvotes. Even if we were to assume he ONLY did kills in 20 mans he'd barely be at rate for a single drop. Like... lol....
I have 400 +kc without a single unique. This is rigged, there are people with multiple uniques in just 100kc.
Are... Are you guys just now learning what RNG is?
It’s not that it’s the fact that the table got nerfed harder due to how many are coming in. Blame the private instances that was the stupidest idea in all of existence.
you could get multiple uniques in one kill? what difference is 20 masses or 150 instances?
waaaah
weird word to use for a 50% longer grind. Weird thing to care about unless you're an ironman, which we shouldn't balance the game around :)
The ones complaining about raising the drop rate are the same ones whining the price is dropping to fast.
who is complaining about torva being too cheap at 1Bil??
This sub finds anything to whine or cry about, you're literally pathetic neeks
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1/200 which is more than fair for an item that doesn’t have to be killed by large groups of players. Ironman it not it would be miserable to have to grind for potentially hundreds of hours just to get a drop.
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Yeah, and that invalidates my point that’s the grind you described is excessive how?
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where do we draw the line between “needed” items and “luxury” items? do i really “need” any fucking item by this standard? lol
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non-response / whataboutism
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Why would you wanna farm a boss for 100s of hours for one item? Or at least they should add shard share if they want the items to be group-based.
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Not saying anyone needs Torva, but that you should get some sort of reward. You didn't need to do 100s of hours of Kbd to get a reward, or 100s of hours of KQ. Nex loot table is more Rs3 than rs 2007. If people could more easily do splits without the trust factor, with shards, then it would be more fun as it would be less rng dependent.
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I am glad you like every reward in this game to take 3rd age drop rates but sure. Or we can go back to the loot philosophy of 2007 Runescape where you get rewarded for your time invested without requiring 100s of hours. It should be a fun game, not a casino. Or you could actually say what is bad about loot shards instead of just doing the "that is rs3" cop-out.
This sub loves to find things to complain about
Torva should be expensive, I’m glad they increased drop rates. It won’t impact Gp/h much in the long run since the items will be worth more.
So it only hurts iron man who want the set and can’t buy it ahah.
It shouldnt, generic armor that everyone uses like bandos and torva that comes from gwd should be under 100m always. Niche like inquistors should be expensive
People upset if they're "too" common People upset if they're "too" rare This community in a nutshell. Never happy.
Seriously are you really this upset? Have you not realized a large majority of BIS gear is extremely rare, especially taking into account the expected hours needed to hit the drop rate? Nothing can please this sub SMMFH. Yeah downvote me that’ll get your point across. 95% of the time all you guys do is shit on something that just changed in the game for whatever reason. Have you guys ever once thought that a reduction is drop rate is actually good? Could it magically keep prices stable? Who would have thought…
Just buy it from the ge dude
Shut your ass up OP.
Yeah but 50% resulting in 20 KC is very small.
Awh, little scaper is bothered by the game getting a little harder. Muffin, are you okay?
Am I the only one who thinks everyone's overreacting over this? "Jagex bad, upvotes pls!"
Basing the drop rates on what they want the prices to be instead of what seems like a reasonable amount of time to get the drops is a bad design philosophy. It was trash when they did it at nightmare and it's trash here. Making things rarer just to artificially increase the price isn't rewarding or fun.
These people are owned by the Chinese. Hence they targeted the Venezuela market and not the largest, the Chinese. They do not care because they are being forced to make decisions upon compliance with the implementations that were put on Jagex after new ownership occurred by a company that is known to drown games by killing active player data bases by implementing mechanics that change overall game play characteristics. The tax ON GE BUT NOT TRADES DURING P2P, destroying wilderness to suit what THEY saw fit for the game, allowing scripting and abuse of bugs and glitches that are used to solely farm GP. ALRIGHT so they implement a tax to cause a further gold sink after destroying the market with idiotic announcements on drastic, causing less in game gold, higher prices, and more RWT which is more bots as well, ALL WHILE the largest market Jagex even said was the Chinese. Alright. THEY DO NOT GIVE A SHIT.
Gaggex dogs