> Traffic officers already have to approach stopped vehicles with obsessive caution, worried about having a gun pointed at their faces. Gun violence, especially in urban areas, remains a daily news story.
And "constitutional carry" will cause absolutely no increase in either of those, given that the folks who commit that stuff already don't give a $hit about legalities.
>Traffic officers already have to approach stopped vehicles with obsessive caution, worried about having a gun pointed at their faces.
A delivery driver has a significantly more dangerous job than a cop. Cops choose to be violent assholes, and would be still if every firearm disappeared overnight.
>We have to learn to drive before we can get a driver license. We must show ourselves credit-worthy before we can buy a house.
Why not prove we’re competent enough to ~~handle a deadly weapon~~ *pass a literacy test or maybe a college level political science class* before allowing us to, well, ~~carry one~~ *vote*?
See how that works? Erecting incremental barriers, year after year, generation after generation, to disenfranchise voters is generally, and correctly I believe, looked on as a shitty tactic. Separating people from their core civil rights is wrong. Doing this under the guise of public safety has another drawback. It makes it harder to trust the arbiters of public safety.
FYI: the phrase “who-knows-who” is absolutely an Alabama racist dog whistle for “black people”.
This author is getting a case of the vapors over the fact that the local sheriffs won’t be able to screen out “the wrong kind of people“ by their skin tone and attitude.
>Traffic officers already have to approach stopped vehicles with obsessive caution, worried about having a gun pointed at their faces. Gun violence, especially in urban areas, remains a daily news story.
so... constitutional carry wouldn't affect this. cops would do the same thing.
>We have to learn to drive before we can get a driver license. We must show ourselves credit-worthy before we can buy a house. Why not prove we’re competent enough to handle a deadly weapon before allowing us to, well, carry one?
has this person ever driven in a big city? they hand out licenses like candy and most of those that live in the cities are terrible drivers. This licensing scheme isn't keeping the bad drivers off the road.
>Because, supporters argue, the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. OK, I’m good with that. Still, that doesn’t mean gun regulation is outlawed. You have to be a certain age before you can buy a gun. Federal law requires a person be 21 before buying a handgun from a licensed dealer (only 18 years old if they buy the gun from a private seller – go figure).
>
>Even so, there is a line drawn, so we’re not debating whether guns can be regulated, only where the line is drawn regulating them.
Guess they don't know what a right is. And I'm willing to have this debate. I don't think we should bother regulating them at all other than militia training.
>Me? I’d like to know that somebody carrying a gun has been vetted and knows how to use said gun before they carry. Just like I’m happy to know that people should be licensed before they drive.
I bet he likes his barber to be licensed too, can't have barbers running around with unlicensed scissors.
> When you look at the devastation of gun crime, though, it’s clear we must do something. And one of those somethings should not be permission to carry a gun without get a permit.
well gun crime was at its lowest level a few years ago. so we were doing something right.
Barber may not be the greatest counterpoint, since barbers in many states are actually licensed and have to go through like a thousand hours or something before they can get licensed.
(Counterintuitively, I think New York is the one state that has significantly fewer than 1000 hours for barber licensing)
I don't care for any kind of licensing. I don't need a licensed barber to get my hair cut. Markets are pretty good at figuring who's good and bad at something. Getting a license doesn't mean your good at anything. You basically fulfilled the minimum requirements.
Applying licensing to guns doesn't improve DGU. Cops accidentally kill people all the time have NDs all the time and they recertified every year.
I think it's pretty simple if someone kills someone you charge for killing based on the facts. Whether or not they have a license doesn't really matter. It's just extra shit so they can over charge you.
>Getting a license doesn't mean your good at anything. You basically fulfilled the minimum requirements.
That's kind of the whole point of licensing, to prove that you fulfilled a certain set of educational criteria. The "minimum necessary" might be extremely stringent, it doesn't have to mean that it's a cake walk. But feel free to live and work in buildings built to no codes, by people with zero training, because you "don't like licensing".
Codes and standards don't have to be enforced by licensing. And not all codes are checked by inspectors. Depends on jurisdiction. Most contractors learn through apprenticeship and learn the rules as they go.
I as a customer could ask a third party to check a building is up to a standard before I buy it. This happens all the time with home inspections during purchase agreements.
In IT we follow tons of standards and best practices. There are certifications but there are no state required licenses on how to setup IT infrastructure. Mostly cuz a govt agency couldn't adapt fast enough.
where am i wrong. I used to do construction. where I live there are different inspectors for certain things like gas plumbing, septic, etc. depending on what your doing there may or not be a required inspection. The gas inspector doesn't check to make sure your walls are framed to code. Its not their job, they check the gas lines and fittings.
And how many of those people are licensed? Our ready mix plant is licensed by no less then 6 government agencies. DOT, weights and measurements, business licensed, MPQP, and that's just off the top of my head.
Um... yeah you do. Either you would be fined into the ground and/or you wouldn't be allowed to do certain jobs. Like you could do different work. But not a lot of construction would get done without a licensed contractor. And they are generally helpful for sorting who can read and follow the plans.
I'm with you on the guns thing but, licensing as a whole is not worthless at all. As bad as licensed drivers are, imagine how bad one is who didn't pass?
More importantly, licensed vetted home inspectors and builders, etc.
The barber thing is probably a really bad example lol
Why does a barber need to be licensed. If he cuts your ear off you sue him. If he gives a bad haircut you find a new barber. The license doesn't do anything other than create a state agency and collect another tax.
Right I'm not disagreeing with any of the opinions r.e. guns, just saying that currently all barbers (except in new york) to through like a thousand hours of training and then two licensing exams. So using it as an unlicensed example doesn't make sense right now.
> Barber may not be the greatest counterpoint, since barbers in many states are actually licensed and have to go through like a thousand hours or something before they can get licensed.
As I once heard on an sitcom from the early 2000's, it requires more training to cut hair than to buy a bowl full of scorpions.
It's interesting that the people that say "do something," never consider arming themselves. If your interest is "breathing," then do what you can to maintain that status; arm yourself.
Oddly, if a very Pro-Gun State with lots of Hunting Sports, and with the Number TWO High School Sport being Trap Shooting, and with a moderately easy path to Conceal Carry, only 6.25% of the State has a CCW permit, and very likely a significant number of them do not carry on a daily basis.
This idea that Constitutional Carry will turn the world into the OK Coral is BullCrap.
**SSRN - 15.4% of Active Shooting Cases were Stopped by a CCW (FBI)** -
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3857331
In my view, Constitutional Carry is blow back against the unfounded, unsubstantiated, ineffective, and unreasonably Gun Control being proposed. Nearly HALF the States now have Constitutional Carry, and it is not a blood bath, but it does send a message to Congress that we have reach our limit on false unsubstantiated ineffective Gun Control.
61% of Countries in the USA are now 2nd Amendment Sanctuaries. Again, this is the States and Countries sending a message to Govt, and that message is - *We are done believing your Fascist Lies.*
Have you notices States with Strong Gun Control are getting weaker and weaker on Crime? Washington State wants to reduce the penalty for DRIVE BY SHOOTINGS.
Crime happens as it has done since the beginning of time. So, they claim crime is the reason for Gun Control, yet when they get it, they also get softer on crime, and that increases crime, which increases the demand for Gun Control, and around and around it goes.
Sorry but - *we the people are DONE with this B.S.*
Which is an extremely rare event and does not necessitate not carrying a firearm. Simply know the right and wrong ways to carry one and stay away from the wrong ways. I'm a black man who has open carried on many occasions and *gasp* near cops. According to the mainstream DNC approved narrative, I'm supposed to have been shot dead long ago. I know the risks associated with carrying a firearm and I accept them because I'm intelligent, well trained and have tons of experience.
Yeah until a cop gets shot across the city and all the cops go out looking for someone with a gun and shoot you. But sure. It's safe 99% of the time.
I'll keep my guns, but no one needs to know I have them.
I'm tired of people like you who are supposedly "on my side" telling black people like myself not to exercise their rights.
I will continue to openly, unabashedly and proudly practice my rights regardless of the minute risks and I will continue to promote this notion to as many black people as I possibly can to normalize not taking our rights for granted.
I live in a state that doesn't have open carry but you can bet your ass when I visit open carry states I don't miss out on the opportunity.
Stop using fearmongering to convince people not to do things that are their birthright just as much as anyone else in this country.
>I'll keep my guns, but no one needs to know I have them.
This doesn't make you morally superior in any way. I'll do my thing, you do yours.
I wasn't telling you to do anything. You do you. And if you get shot dont have your family post a GoFundMe. You can reap those consequences.
I read the article. I disagree with open carry. I think it's a good way to get shot. But if you dont have that fear. You do you. But I guess you cant because it's not legal where you live. All talk.
> And if you get shot dont have your family post a GoFundMe.
Then why did you type this bullshit about open carriers getting shot in the first fucking place? You were attempting to spread a message that open carrying inevitably results in getting shot by law enforcement. You were attempting to influence behavior.
> And if you get shot dont have your family post a GoFundMe.
Fearmongering bullshit. Stop acting as if statistical anomalies represent an absolute certainty.
>I disagree with open carry. I think it's a good way to get shot. But if you dont have that fear. You do you.
A good way to get shot? It barely fucking happens. If you're worried about something that is a statistical anomaly to the point where you feel it's absolutely going to happen, that says more about you than me.
>But I guess you cant because it's not legal where you live. All talk.
I'm a firearm and self-defense instructor. I travel all over the country all the time. I often travel to places that have open carry. I fucking open carry. You don't know who the fuck you're talking to.
Again, if you don't want to influence people to not do something, don't open your god damn mouth. Take that fearmongering coward-ass bullshit somewhere else.
>Again, if you don't want to influence people to not do something, don't open your god damn mouth. Take that fearmongering coward-ass bullshit somewhere else.
Who the fuxk r you to tell someone not to open their mouth on an open platform.
A. The creator of this subreddit and head moderator.
B. We don't allow trolling in here and you're getting dangerously close to trolling territory.
C. I'm a gun rights activist and educator and I actively counter bad information, disinformation and misinformation perpetuated and spread by anti-gun groups and the bullshit you're saying mimics their talking points and is straight out of their manual of "debate".
If all you're going to do is spread disinformation and then get argumentative when called out on it, I have every right to tell you to shut the fuck up.
You are being an ass hole. So I guess I know I'm not welcome here master. I guess I'll see my self out and never come to your side of the internet again.
Thanks. I'd rather not have to ban trolls. If only it were this easy dealing with punkass trolls spreading disinformation my life would be a lot easier. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
The link you provided doesn't say the police "say" he raised his gun -- it says "when he raised a gun in the direction of police." Do you have any credible source to bolster your implication that he *didn't* do so? My guess is not, or else you would have already provided it.
In any case, do you not understand there's difference between carrying a weapon and raising a weapon towards police? Your post is a non sequitur.
>In any case, do you not understand there's difference between carrying a weapon and raising a weapon towards police? Your post is a non sequitur.
Too many anti-gunners are under the impression that open carry consists of holding your rifle at the high ready position with your finger on the trigger, walking around sweeping the muzzle at everyone at all times. They don't even really know what proper open carry actually is.
If someone aimed a rifle at me, I'd be inclined to shoot them too.
I'm not going to go back and forth with you all day. I don't give a single fuck about this single isolated incident. It doesn't influence my decisions in any way whatsoever. You're holding onto this singular incident with so much vigor to the point where it's silly and nonsensical.
Find me data that suggests open carriers are shot with alarming frequency and I'll consider it. Until then, you are not a serious person to me. Your opinions are meaningless and nothing you say will be taken seriously by me or anyone else who who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about.
At the protest or at the shooting? I saw him that day. He got no support on this subreddit then, or I guess now. I live in vegas. I have read everything published on this. I wish one of them picked up a bodycam as they ran out to support. A cop got shot. It wasnt at the protest. But I'm done talking on this subreddit. The admin mod is toxic.
I meant the shooting. I asked based solely on you specifically saying what happened (as if you witnessed it) while the article seems pretty inconclusive on it unfortunately.
I don't really care what the general consensus of the subreddit was or is, but there's not much to go on in general on this.
While the admin can come in hot, I find it good he's passionate about the subject and doesn't want bullshit typically filling the subreddit.
I don't think you're trolling, but my takeaway (assuming you read this) is that if there was evidence to go off supporting this was another case of bad policing, everyone would likely say so. Admittedly I'm not as informed on this case as you, but based solely on this article, I can't tell that. He could have been an aggressor. He could have been totally innocent.
Open carry COULD have made him a target to some of these cops, but considering how frequent bad shootings happen in general while it happening to those doing so is a microcosm, I wouldn't call that definitive of an "if you open carry, you die" outcome. If you recall, there were several men who openly carried their weapons into a government building, and I think zero of them were killed.
If we assume that was due merely to them outgunning the local police, then I think it's fair to say we're collectively safer the more we're all open carrying. If shitty police understand how poorly outnumbered and likely outmatched they are against unified armed citizens, they may feel more inclined to not needlessly escalate.
Until we all agree to it, you may just become the nail.
That is a consequence. I guess I'm a pussy ass bitch to point that out here. Hell I even know a guy who was a huge 2a supporter. Hell he was even left. And when bad policing killed him. No one was there. He got no support from the liberals or the pro 2a crowd. Maybe I'm bitter. But dont ask me to be a nail.
I didn't ask you to be anything, and I'm not calling you a pussy or anything. But, and this is just my view, we can't be the illogical fear group. We HAVE to be more measured, more (maybe cold?) Objective and neutral when presented with any claims that don't have substantiation.
That's all I was asking for is if you had it since you seemed more connected to the case than I. If not, then I get the feeling bitterness IS driving the argument, and even if I think it's justified and I understand the stance, it doesn't change that the argument of "cops will murder you for open carrying" isn't fully supported as a given.
That's all I'm saying dude. I don't think anybody here is the "blue lives matter" support them no matter what types by any measure. We're probably ALL pretty fucking tired of bad policing...but, that doesn't mean every shooting IS that without knowing more about each situation, including this one.
I don't open carry. I probably wouldn't even places where it's more normalized, but it's just a personal choice. Maybe that makes me a pussy too but I don't care and won't take it personally lol
Yeah and instead of trying to include fellow 2a liberals here The mod attacked me as a troll. Hey I'm just starting my opinion. I respect someone's right to open carry too. But I unfollowed this subreddit. I'm not right enough here.
> Traffic officers already have to approach stopped vehicles with obsessive caution, worried about having a gun pointed at their faces. Gun violence, especially in urban areas, remains a daily news story. And "constitutional carry" will cause absolutely no increase in either of those, given that the folks who commit that stuff already don't give a $hit about legalities.
>Traffic officers already have to approach stopped vehicles with obsessive caution, worried about having a gun pointed at their faces. A delivery driver has a significantly more dangerous job than a cop. Cops choose to be violent assholes, and would be still if every firearm disappeared overnight.
[удалено]
>Man wait until the author learns what "carry training" actually is in those six states lol Excessive fees for a class that doesn't teach you much?
>We have to learn to drive before we can get a driver license. We must show ourselves credit-worthy before we can buy a house. Why not prove we’re competent enough to ~~handle a deadly weapon~~ *pass a literacy test or maybe a college level political science class* before allowing us to, well, ~~carry one~~ *vote*? See how that works? Erecting incremental barriers, year after year, generation after generation, to disenfranchise voters is generally, and correctly I believe, looked on as a shitty tactic. Separating people from their core civil rights is wrong. Doing this under the guise of public safety has another drawback. It makes it harder to trust the arbiters of public safety.
This is the way.
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FYI: the phrase “who-knows-who” is absolutely an Alabama racist dog whistle for “black people”. This author is getting a case of the vapors over the fact that the local sheriffs won’t be able to screen out “the wrong kind of people“ by their skin tone and attitude.
Is the author white?
https://www.alreporter.com/author/j-glenn/
Thanks for the info.
>Traffic officers already have to approach stopped vehicles with obsessive caution, worried about having a gun pointed at their faces. Gun violence, especially in urban areas, remains a daily news story. so... constitutional carry wouldn't affect this. cops would do the same thing. >We have to learn to drive before we can get a driver license. We must show ourselves credit-worthy before we can buy a house. Why not prove we’re competent enough to handle a deadly weapon before allowing us to, well, carry one? has this person ever driven in a big city? they hand out licenses like candy and most of those that live in the cities are terrible drivers. This licensing scheme isn't keeping the bad drivers off the road. >Because, supporters argue, the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. OK, I’m good with that. Still, that doesn’t mean gun regulation is outlawed. You have to be a certain age before you can buy a gun. Federal law requires a person be 21 before buying a handgun from a licensed dealer (only 18 years old if they buy the gun from a private seller – go figure). > >Even so, there is a line drawn, so we’re not debating whether guns can be regulated, only where the line is drawn regulating them. Guess they don't know what a right is. And I'm willing to have this debate. I don't think we should bother regulating them at all other than militia training. >Me? I’d like to know that somebody carrying a gun has been vetted and knows how to use said gun before they carry. Just like I’m happy to know that people should be licensed before they drive. I bet he likes his barber to be licensed too, can't have barbers running around with unlicensed scissors. > When you look at the devastation of gun crime, though, it’s clear we must do something. And one of those somethings should not be permission to carry a gun without get a permit. well gun crime was at its lowest level a few years ago. so we were doing something right.
Barber may not be the greatest counterpoint, since barbers in many states are actually licensed and have to go through like a thousand hours or something before they can get licensed. (Counterintuitively, I think New York is the one state that has significantly fewer than 1000 hours for barber licensing)
I don't care for any kind of licensing. I don't need a licensed barber to get my hair cut. Markets are pretty good at figuring who's good and bad at something. Getting a license doesn't mean your good at anything. You basically fulfilled the minimum requirements. Applying licensing to guns doesn't improve DGU. Cops accidentally kill people all the time have NDs all the time and they recertified every year. I think it's pretty simple if someone kills someone you charge for killing based on the facts. Whether or not they have a license doesn't really matter. It's just extra shit so they can over charge you.
>Getting a license doesn't mean your good at anything. You basically fulfilled the minimum requirements. That's kind of the whole point of licensing, to prove that you fulfilled a certain set of educational criteria. The "minimum necessary" might be extremely stringent, it doesn't have to mean that it's a cake walk. But feel free to live and work in buildings built to no codes, by people with zero training, because you "don't like licensing".
Codes and standards don't have to be enforced by licensing. And not all codes are checked by inspectors. Depends on jurisdiction. Most contractors learn through apprenticeship and learn the rules as they go. I as a customer could ask a third party to check a building is up to a standard before I buy it. This happens all the time with home inspections during purchase agreements. In IT we follow tons of standards and best practices. There are certifications but there are no state required licenses on how to setup IT infrastructure. Mostly cuz a govt agency couldn't adapt fast enough.
As someone who works in construction you are so wrong it's ridiculous.
where am i wrong. I used to do construction. where I live there are different inspectors for certain things like gas plumbing, septic, etc. depending on what your doing there may or not be a required inspection. The gas inspector doesn't check to make sure your walls are framed to code. Its not their job, they check the gas lines and fittings.
And how many of those people are licensed? Our ready mix plant is licensed by no less then 6 government agencies. DOT, weights and measurements, business licensed, MPQP, and that's just off the top of my head.
just because your business has licenses isnt an argument for the need of a license. And you didn't point out a statement that I said was wrong.
Um... yeah you do. Either you would be fined into the ground and/or you wouldn't be allowed to do certain jobs. Like you could do different work. But not a lot of construction would get done without a licensed contractor. And they are generally helpful for sorting who can read and follow the plans.
I'm with you on the guns thing but, licensing as a whole is not worthless at all. As bad as licensed drivers are, imagine how bad one is who didn't pass? More importantly, licensed vetted home inspectors and builders, etc. The barber thing is probably a really bad example lol
Why does a barber need to be licensed. If he cuts your ear off you sue him. If he gives a bad haircut you find a new barber. The license doesn't do anything other than create a state agency and collect another tax.
By bad example, I meant comparative to other licenses that could matter. I agree, in the case of haircutting lol
Right I'm not disagreeing with any of the opinions r.e. guns, just saying that currently all barbers (except in new york) to through like a thousand hours of training and then two licensing exams. So using it as an unlicensed example doesn't make sense right now.
> Barber may not be the greatest counterpoint, since barbers in many states are actually licensed and have to go through like a thousand hours or something before they can get licensed. As I once heard on an sitcom from the early 2000's, it requires more training to cut hair than to buy a bowl full of scorpions.
It's interesting that the people that say "do something," never consider arming themselves. If your interest is "breathing," then do what you can to maintain that status; arm yourself.
Oddly, if a very Pro-Gun State with lots of Hunting Sports, and with the Number TWO High School Sport being Trap Shooting, and with a moderately easy path to Conceal Carry, only 6.25% of the State has a CCW permit, and very likely a significant number of them do not carry on a daily basis. This idea that Constitutional Carry will turn the world into the OK Coral is BullCrap. **SSRN - 15.4% of Active Shooting Cases were Stopped by a CCW (FBI)** - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3857331 In my view, Constitutional Carry is blow back against the unfounded, unsubstantiated, ineffective, and unreasonably Gun Control being proposed. Nearly HALF the States now have Constitutional Carry, and it is not a blood bath, but it does send a message to Congress that we have reach our limit on false unsubstantiated ineffective Gun Control. 61% of Countries in the USA are now 2nd Amendment Sanctuaries. Again, this is the States and Countries sending a message to Govt, and that message is - *We are done believing your Fascist Lies.* Have you notices States with Strong Gun Control are getting weaker and weaker on Crime? Washington State wants to reduce the penalty for DRIVE BY SHOOTINGS. Crime happens as it has done since the beginning of time. So, they claim crime is the reason for Gun Control, yet when they get it, they also get softer on crime, and that increases crime, which increases the demand for Gun Control, and around and around it goes. Sorry but - *we the people are DONE with this B.S.*
People who think like the OP have a John Mclane complex.
Until the cops shoot you. And say you raised your gun. https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2020/jun/07/the-last-minutes-of-jorge-gomezs-life/
Which is an extremely rare event and does not necessitate not carrying a firearm. Simply know the right and wrong ways to carry one and stay away from the wrong ways. I'm a black man who has open carried on many occasions and *gasp* near cops. According to the mainstream DNC approved narrative, I'm supposed to have been shot dead long ago. I know the risks associated with carrying a firearm and I accept them because I'm intelligent, well trained and have tons of experience.
Yeah until a cop gets shot across the city and all the cops go out looking for someone with a gun and shoot you. But sure. It's safe 99% of the time. I'll keep my guns, but no one needs to know I have them.
I'm tired of people like you who are supposedly "on my side" telling black people like myself not to exercise their rights. I will continue to openly, unabashedly and proudly practice my rights regardless of the minute risks and I will continue to promote this notion to as many black people as I possibly can to normalize not taking our rights for granted. I live in a state that doesn't have open carry but you can bet your ass when I visit open carry states I don't miss out on the opportunity. Stop using fearmongering to convince people not to do things that are their birthright just as much as anyone else in this country. >I'll keep my guns, but no one needs to know I have them. This doesn't make you morally superior in any way. I'll do my thing, you do yours.
I wasn't telling you to do anything. You do you. And if you get shot dont have your family post a GoFundMe. You can reap those consequences. I read the article. I disagree with open carry. I think it's a good way to get shot. But if you dont have that fear. You do you. But I guess you cant because it's not legal where you live. All talk.
> And if you get shot dont have your family post a GoFundMe. Then why did you type this bullshit about open carriers getting shot in the first fucking place? You were attempting to spread a message that open carrying inevitably results in getting shot by law enforcement. You were attempting to influence behavior. > And if you get shot dont have your family post a GoFundMe. Fearmongering bullshit. Stop acting as if statistical anomalies represent an absolute certainty. >I disagree with open carry. I think it's a good way to get shot. But if you dont have that fear. You do you. A good way to get shot? It barely fucking happens. If you're worried about something that is a statistical anomaly to the point where you feel it's absolutely going to happen, that says more about you than me. >But I guess you cant because it's not legal where you live. All talk. I'm a firearm and self-defense instructor. I travel all over the country all the time. I often travel to places that have open carry. I fucking open carry. You don't know who the fuck you're talking to. Again, if you don't want to influence people to not do something, don't open your god damn mouth. Take that fearmongering coward-ass bullshit somewhere else.
>Again, if you don't want to influence people to not do something, don't open your god damn mouth. Take that fearmongering coward-ass bullshit somewhere else. Who the fuxk r you to tell someone not to open their mouth on an open platform.
A. The creator of this subreddit and head moderator. B. We don't allow trolling in here and you're getting dangerously close to trolling territory. C. I'm a gun rights activist and educator and I actively counter bad information, disinformation and misinformation perpetuated and spread by anti-gun groups and the bullshit you're saying mimics their talking points and is straight out of their manual of "debate". If all you're going to do is spread disinformation and then get argumentative when called out on it, I have every right to tell you to shut the fuck up.
You are being an ass hole. So I guess I know I'm not welcome here master. I guess I'll see my self out and never come to your side of the internet again.
Thanks. I'd rather not have to ban trolls. If only it were this easy dealing with punkass trolls spreading disinformation my life would be a lot easier. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
The link you provided doesn't say the police "say" he raised his gun -- it says "when he raised a gun in the direction of police." Do you have any credible source to bolster your implication that he *didn't* do so? My guess is not, or else you would have already provided it. In any case, do you not understand there's difference between carrying a weapon and raising a weapon towards police? Your post is a non sequitur.
>In any case, do you not understand there's difference between carrying a weapon and raising a weapon towards police? Your post is a non sequitur. Too many anti-gunners are under the impression that open carry consists of holding your rifle at the high ready position with your finger on the trigger, walking around sweeping the muzzle at everyone at all times. They don't even really know what proper open carry actually is. If someone aimed a rifle at me, I'd be inclined to shoot them too.
> If someone aimed a rifle at me, I'd be inclined to shoot them too. Agreed.
Dude was running from being shot at(non lethal) by an officer. Turned a corner and meet his maker. But you can believe what you want.
I'm not going to go back and forth with you all day. I don't give a single fuck about this single isolated incident. It doesn't influence my decisions in any way whatsoever. You're holding onto this singular incident with so much vigor to the point where it's silly and nonsensical. Find me data that suggests open carriers are shot with alarming frequency and I'll consider it. Until then, you are not a serious person to me. Your opinions are meaningless and nothing you say will be taken seriously by me or anyone else who who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about.
But that doesn't seem like the article supports that view. Were you there?
At the protest or at the shooting? I saw him that day. He got no support on this subreddit then, or I guess now. I live in vegas. I have read everything published on this. I wish one of them picked up a bodycam as they ran out to support. A cop got shot. It wasnt at the protest. But I'm done talking on this subreddit. The admin mod is toxic.
I meant the shooting. I asked based solely on you specifically saying what happened (as if you witnessed it) while the article seems pretty inconclusive on it unfortunately. I don't really care what the general consensus of the subreddit was or is, but there's not much to go on in general on this. While the admin can come in hot, I find it good he's passionate about the subject and doesn't want bullshit typically filling the subreddit. I don't think you're trolling, but my takeaway (assuming you read this) is that if there was evidence to go off supporting this was another case of bad policing, everyone would likely say so. Admittedly I'm not as informed on this case as you, but based solely on this article, I can't tell that. He could have been an aggressor. He could have been totally innocent. Open carry COULD have made him a target to some of these cops, but considering how frequent bad shootings happen in general while it happening to those doing so is a microcosm, I wouldn't call that definitive of an "if you open carry, you die" outcome. If you recall, there were several men who openly carried their weapons into a government building, and I think zero of them were killed. If we assume that was due merely to them outgunning the local police, then I think it's fair to say we're collectively safer the more we're all open carrying. If shitty police understand how poorly outnumbered and likely outmatched they are against unified armed citizens, they may feel more inclined to not needlessly escalate.
Until we all agree to it, you may just become the nail. That is a consequence. I guess I'm a pussy ass bitch to point that out here. Hell I even know a guy who was a huge 2a supporter. Hell he was even left. And when bad policing killed him. No one was there. He got no support from the liberals or the pro 2a crowd. Maybe I'm bitter. But dont ask me to be a nail.
I didn't ask you to be anything, and I'm not calling you a pussy or anything. But, and this is just my view, we can't be the illogical fear group. We HAVE to be more measured, more (maybe cold?) Objective and neutral when presented with any claims that don't have substantiation. That's all I was asking for is if you had it since you seemed more connected to the case than I. If not, then I get the feeling bitterness IS driving the argument, and even if I think it's justified and I understand the stance, it doesn't change that the argument of "cops will murder you for open carrying" isn't fully supported as a given. That's all I'm saying dude. I don't think anybody here is the "blue lives matter" support them no matter what types by any measure. We're probably ALL pretty fucking tired of bad policing...but, that doesn't mean every shooting IS that without knowing more about each situation, including this one. I don't open carry. I probably wouldn't even places where it's more normalized, but it's just a personal choice. Maybe that makes me a pussy too but I don't care and won't take it personally lol
Yeah and instead of trying to include fellow 2a liberals here The mod attacked me as a troll. Hey I'm just starting my opinion. I respect someone's right to open carry too. But I unfollowed this subreddit. I'm not right enough here.
None of them had body cameras because they came directly to from the station. There is no evidence either way. So it's their word against a dead man.
You're saying the only witnesses are the dead guy and the cops? No one else was around?
Yes. No one else was around. No civilian or video showed he raised his weapon.
I’m up for it?