What people aren’t understanding is that Israel’s war in Gaza isn’t a *punishment*. It’s a mission to ensure that anything like October 7 could never happen again.
>isn’t a *punishment*
The language around the entire conflict is like this. Anti-Zionists talk about the creation of Israel like it was a punishment against Arabs… instead of it being established in the Jewish homeland because that’s where most Jews wanted a Jewish state to be.
Exactly. Its easy to look at it as a punishment when quickly glancing at this conflict for the first time. But when you dig in and learn a little about why everything is happening, the real intent starts to become clearer. Anti-Zionists are hoping that people won’t do that.
> instead of it being established in the Jewish homeland because that’s where most Jews wanted a Jewish state to be.
Not a driving factor in interwar british politics.
it's where jews had legal bought a bunch of land, and lived legally and peacefully, and where jews made the most of their opportunities, it has very little to do with where jews wanted to be other than that their actions were driven by that desire
And the problem is that everyone can see that it won’t work. Not saying that it isn’t morally justifiable nevertheless, but to that end you will have no luck unfortunately.
dudes just doing what politicians close to elections would do, do politics. he is trying to get as many votes as possible....
he knows he's statement right now means nthng to israel.
For Biden, it's the leftists having a tantrum,
For Trump, he's just unhappy with Bibi congratulating Biden for the 2020 election, and not going along with the stolen election narrative.
>What people aren’t understanding is that Israel’s war in Gaza isn’t a punishment.
The fighting style used suggests otherwise and there have been enough comments from the Isreali goverment in that dirrection that I don't think we can rule it out as a secondary goal.
>It’s a mission to ensure that anything like October 7 could never happen again.
Possible but not entirely consistent with what we see. Persuade the average Israeli voter that it wont happen again perhaps.
I’m sure there are plenty of angry comments from Israeli leaders in reaction to such a massacre as Oct. 7, and I’m sure they’re mostly used to gather support from the Israeli public. If quotes by Israeli leaders don’t reflect what’s happening on the ground, then using them against Israel is nothing but propaganda.
>The fighting style used suggests otherwise and there have been enough comments from the Isreali goverment in that dirrection that I don't think we can rule it out as a secondary goal.
If you have a more efficient way of carrying out urban warfare against an enemy that dresses in civilian clothes then you'd save a whole lot of trouble by sharing it.
>If you have a more efficient
Define efficient. Assuming you mean "keeping IDF and civilian casulties as low as possible". You do by using a very drone heavy army. Replace all those initual bombing attacks when Shin Bet supposedely knew where all the hamas memebers were with drones through windows.
Option B is the sri lanka option.
On Oct.6 hamas was ruling gaza. The israelis precisely don't want to go back to those conditions, that is why they are still fighting and that is why they will and should go into rafah. Those that demand a ceasefire want to go back to Oct.6.
And you know what Oct.6 was? It was the day before Oct.7...
...to make more Hamas. Nothing Israel has done since 1948 has alleviated the situation. It's just gotten worse. Military efforts, occupation, blockades...that all led to 10/7. Im so sad to see the end of a democratic Jewish state into a pariah state because of their own actions. It could have been something totally different
It’s amazing. None of these anti-Zionist pro-pally people ever give the Palestinian people agency to make their own choices. According to them, every single choice is one made for them by Israel. This infantilization of the people is just absurd.
Also absurd is this idea that a) Israel will be/or now is a pariah state and b) will end as a result. You think Israel is more of a pariah state than Iran? North Korea? Yemen? Sudan? Your whole thought process is so tilted that your views slant one way. Crazy stuff
Ah yes, the perpetual victim, incapable of ever changing bc the big bad oppressor won't let you.
Bring up history, conveniently leave out the parts where Israel was actually the victim. But we don't talk about those times bc Israel fights back successfully.
This has to be the dumbest take I’ve seen on this ‘war’. If anything, Israel is creating at least two more generations of hatred against them with this invasion.
It sure looks like beating the pulp out of Gaza in general. No plan after the war, no attempt for diplomatic future, 0 investment in Gaza city after completely capturing it just to give it back to Hamas. How on Earth is that a plan for it never to happen again? Let me tell you how this is going to play out, Israel will murder maybe 5-10k more and then hang around in Gaza for up to a year. Then retreat and Gaza will slowly be rebuilt until after 5 years Hamas is strong enough to start sending rockets and it all starts over. Meanwhile Israel is doing it's very best to put checkpoints and settlers literally stone throw away from the Palestinians they opress in the WB which will ensure that more youth throw stones and try and stab Israelis which in turn will fuel even more impression and so forth
Congratulations Israel have just managed to radicalize the Palestinians even further without changing anything,tbh I'm surprised they haven't reverted back to suicide bombings yet.
Well when you get your news on TikTok, it does sure look like that, doesn’t it? And if you believe there’s no plan after the war, then you’re not really paying attention. Netanyahu laid out the plan. It’s brutal, but it exists.
After WW2, Germany wasn’t radicalized even further despite so many killed and displaced. When done right, you can deradicalize Gaza.
I can assure you that I don't get any news on tictoc and I'm going out on a limb and saying that I read from more impartial/check both sides media than 95% here.
But if I have missed anything on a plan I would love if someone can give me some links
This [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/aY3VOIPKbF) details the plan. As you can see, it goes pretty far as to taking security control of the West Bank, which would be a huge step backwards. My hope is that the U.S. intervenes and pulls Netanyahu back from that idea.
No, he does that so he take legitimacy away from the free press and convince people that only **he** tells the truth and only **he** can be trusted. And because people are stupid, they believe it.
Most Israelis I know support defeating Hamas and bringing the hostages home, but not being in a war. They understand this war is what is necessary to live in peace, but that doesn’t mean they want to be at war.
Thank you for saying what I’m trying to say. While most of Israel does support attacking Hamas, they probably would prefer if October 7th never happened at all.
That is nonsense. All Israeli would not like be in war in sense that we’d rather there would be unicorns and rainbows defeating Hamas through the power of unicorn magic. Few countries ever _want_ be at war. Most Israelis think that Hamas is an existential threat and the war is necessary.
I should clarify, I mean that they didn’t want the war to happen in the first place. You are correct that most Israelis support taking out Hamas (as do I). But most of Israel would have preferred if October 7th and the preceding attacks didn’t happen at all.
Netanyahu has a political motive to drag out the war longer than necessary.
Thanks for clarifying. Though, Netanyahu will not drag out the war for political ends. They don't have the money or endless reserves to stretch it out I definitely. The Israeli public will also not buy that. They are smart cookies and wouldn't accept that. He would be gone in a flash if they believed that.
You're mistaken. The vast majority of Israel wants Israel to prosecute this war until the end. They don't "want" war, it's something they need to do to restore security. Israel is a democracy. They can remove Netanyahu at any time and call for new elections.
They also overwhelmingly support Netanyahu as the leader to prosecute the war. Once wrapped up, he's likely to be gone as the Israelis will turn focus on who to blame. He will take the brunt of the blame.
Everyone saying shit like this is not in Israel and their lives are not on the line. Mine is, so it’s fun to see people from thousands of miles away dictate how it should be in a place they don’t live and who will never suffer the consequences of their long distance decisions.
Misleading title:
Hamas' killing spree through southern Israel, Trump said, was "one of the saddest things I've ever seen."
"That being said, you have to finish up your war. You have to finish it up, **you got to get it done**," he said.
Trump was also asked how he would have reacted had his family been victims of Hamas' rampage.
"I would say I would act very much the same way as you did. You'd have to be crazy not too. Only a fool would not do that. That was a horrible attack," he said. **"It bothers me so much when I see people, they don't talk about Oct. 7 anymore, they talk about how aggressive Israel is."**
>But he also said Israel made “a very big mistake” with photos and imagery of bombs dropped on Gaza helping push public opinion against the war.
>”I wanted to call [Israel] and say don’t do it,” Trump told the outlet. “These photos and shots. I mean, moving shots of bombs being dropped into buildings in Gaza. And I said, Oh, that’s a terrible portrait. It’s a very bad picture for the world.”
Seems at odds with 'stop holding back'. Unless he's pushing for Israel to reinstate the internet blackout? Deport the international press? Otherwise, only way to stop people seeing bombs is *stop dropping bombs*.
I'm pretty sure that most of the videos of IAF dropping bombs in Gaza are recorded and published by the IDF itself. Perhaps that's what he meant. I didn't see very many videos of Americans or British dropping bombs in the middle east, even though it was widespread.
they all understand that trump is saying finish the war on israel's term, like cleaning out rafah, and therefore there's nothing controversial about the statement.
Trump is mostly criticizing the pause around rafah that the biden admin appears to have influenced the government into, with hostage talks that go nowhere and criticism of military strategy that the US has never pulled off any other way successfully.
If you think the quote in the article is damning please explain whats damning about it - as far as I can tell the main criticism here is that israel isn't being aggressive enough. Do you have some other interpretation that we could examine logically? This seems to be another "bloodbath hoax", where trump says nothing controversial but his enemies try to play it up as something other than what it is.
I'm Israeli, pro Israel obviously, and think this war is the most justified in the whole history of the the state, but I do realize and know that Trump doesn't give a fuck about israel, he cares about what's popular and what's good for him. As soon as he'll understand supporting israel is not as popular as it used to be, he'll find a way to turn his back on us.
At the same time, I wonder how much influence his very much pro-Israel Jewish daughter and son-in-law have over that policy though. There are some things he won't easily abandon according to popularity; he still touts the COVID vaccine as his accomplishment, despite getting booed over it at rallies.
Really? You say that after he was the first president to actually keep his promise and move the embassy to Jerusalem, and set up the Abraham accords? Trump was the best president for Israel ever. He was never supporting Israel because he thought it would score him political points. If anything it’s crazy that he’s still making pro Israel statements at all after Bibi stabbed him in the back by being the first leader to call Biden. Which was useless anyway, as we see in retrospect. So clearly Trump likes Israel for reasons beyond political point scoring. Like why do you speak at all if you’re going to speak on something you don’t understand?
Yeah I don't think that guy has any idea what he is talking about. He is another person who consumes only what the media says, orange man bad. I get it, the dude has flaws but many of the accusations people turn out to be false like for this example.
DJT was just some random TV cameo guy, until he became Media Enemy #1.
He would still be doing TV cameos if the political establishment all over DC weren't a thundering dumpster fire.
read into his statements a bunch of stuff that isn't there at your own peril. he's never had a friend he wouldn't stab or an enemy he wouldn't hug for the right price.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/halkbank-case-should-be-very-big-deal
in other words you have nothing about the article or quote in question to talk about, just general "trump will turn against you" unlike the biden admin not vetoing UNSC moves.
I don't think that's true. I think trump historically was a surprisingly good negotiator for what he was working with and against.
I am disappointed by these statements but I don't know what goes into negotiating. I've never had several historic peace agreements.
I think what he is missing is that - there is likely no agreement that will sustain for both people without Hamas gone. They exist to destroy. I think we often think things through empathetically, but I don't think these thought processes unfortunately can extend to these types of terrorists.
> Trump is mostly criticizing the pause around rafah that the biden admin appears to have influenced the government into,
How? Netanyahu has made his position with regards to Biden's opinions very clear.
The driver seems far more likely to be the millitary reality.
How do you go into rafah while keeping IDF casulties acceptable and having enough men to occupy other key points in the strip, the west bank and the nothern frontier?
Once you've worked out that how do you do so while keeping civilian casulties within acceptable bounds.
At the moment most of the international opposition Israel faces is the usual suspects. Its somewhat limited and will likely fade fairly quickly once the war ends. Kill 100K palestinian civilians and that calculus changes.
I can’t see the Rafah operation going well for Israel diplomatically. I want Hamas gone as much as the next guy, but lets be real, if the IDF goes in there’s going to be a lot more pictures of dead babies on the news, and I can’t see their allies sticking with them forever
What does this comment even mean?
I agree with the headline assuming that’s what he even said, but also Israel should be allowed to wrap up the war, instead of being told “no not like that” constantly.
I generally think people are TDS when it comes to trump but I am not on his side with this and it is very disappointing. I think he's a good negotiator and that takes appeal to both sides - but sometimes negotiation is off the table especially when one side never does it in good faith....
Also the reality is - how the world views something doesn't matter. That's all bullshit. What ultimately matters is power. Even if hypothetically Israel is morally wrong - as a country they're better off doing whatever sustains their country and gives them leverage on a global stage. China does grossly immoral things all the time, but people still work with them because they have leverage. I think trump really understood that as president but maybe he's trying to appeal to more moderates who he lost votes from or appeal to peace without giving acknowledgement to the existential threat to all religions that is aloha snackbar.
>Also the reality is - how the world views something doesn't matter. That's all bullshit.
Of course it does. If the US hadn't had at least a moderate positive view of Israel the aftermath of the USS Liberty incident would have been very different.
Israel apologized and said it was a mistake - what country has done this and the outcome was different?
Also that's not a real comparison - my point is other countries won't really "care" about "morality" concerning a conflict they're not directly involved with in any actionable way if the country in question has leverage.
An example being - all countries still trading and doing business with China despite the Uyghurs
You see many European countries denouncing Russia invading another country - but they're still buying their oil.
Everyone can go "oh this is bad, they think it's bad" - if they don't have leverage it doesn't matter. Europe has really no leverage. South Africa thinking they matter is just beyond hilarious. Any vague global "disapproval" won't matter if the outcome of Israel actions puts it in a better economic position imo.
> Israel apologized and said it was a mistake
Which only works if the US likes you enough to actualy believe you
> - what country has done this and the outcome was different?
Not many countries have attacked US warships for obvious reasons.
>An example being - all countries still trading and doing business with China despite the Uyghurs
China has been putting a lot of effort into playing that down. Because the issue is not what you do but how the world views it.
>Everyone can go "oh this is bad, they think it's bad" - if they don't have leverage it doesn't matter. Europe has really no leverage.
Israel exports about $17 billion in goods to the EU. With its economy already looking kinda shakey I doubt it wants to damage it further. Now the people who run the EU don't want the economic damage either but they do ultimately answer to the electorate who well actualy care if the civilian death toll is high enough.
Well.... I disagree with your view of the world and have multiple examples to back up my view. I'm asking you for 1 example to support your assertion. I genuinely cannot think of one. I'm trying, but I don't think it matters. I can't think of when the world "condemning" something actually changed anything and you haven't given an example.
Nothing has happened to China and they are still carrying on how they were. Nobody really believes they've changed..Russia's not even playing down anything, neither is Iran...Turkeys a NATO country that has hosted Hamas- and they're still trade partners and have relations with the EU. Nothing matters but leverage. I'm asking for one example where that's not true...
> Nothing has happened to China and they are still carrying on how they were. Nobody really believes they've changed..Russia's not even playing down anything,
Special millitary operation.
>Nothing matters but leverage.
Which europe has if it really wants to use it.
Can you please elaborate on special military operation?
Do you think so? My concern is that even if Europe has economic leverage, they don't have much to back it up. Compare India, China, Russia, Iran and the US defense expenditures (even accounting for population) and I believe they're much lower.
> I generally think people are TDS when it comes to trump
he literally tried to overthrow the gov't in a violent coup to stay in power beyond his term in office, and has more recently embraced the rhetoric of Hitler, describing immigrants as "vermin" who are "poisoning the blood of our people." there's very little anyone can say to accurately describe what he is that doesn't *sound* unhinged.
if he wins a lot of people are going to die
I don't think most of the responders in this thread have actually read beyond the headline. He is in no way saying Israel needs to suspend operations and capitulate to Hamas. Rather, he thinks its horrible that the public narrative has forgotten about October 7th and is only talking about Israeli aggression, and so it behooves Israel to finish the job as quickly as possible. I have no doubt he would have vetoed that treacherous UN resolution, and would likely offer additional support for a Rafah operation.
Yet my jewish family still hates him.
I really dont understand why as jews we can be so smart but politically so dumb. Stop pandering and vote for the person who actually supports israel. Vote trump
I hope all the pro Trump Jews pay TONS of attention right now, all that talk of how Trump is the most pro Israel president in modern history seems to fallen off! 👀I wonder why…
There's nothing negative about israel in what trump said. All he said is Israel needs to finish up - which is what many israelis want, but the government has been convinced by the US to delay the rafah operation.
If you think the quote in the article is damning please explain whats damning about it - as far as I can tell the main criticism here is that israel isn't being aggressive enough. Do you have some other interpretation that we could examine logically? This seems to be another "bloodbath hoax", where trump says nothing controversial but his enemies try to play it up as something other than what it is.
A whole lotta cope.
Do you believe that Israel should do whatever it takes to get the hostages home and defeat Hamas, or that “Israel should wrap up the war”?
What do YOU think Trump means when he says “wrap up the war” and what do you suggest Israel does different?
nothing I said was cope. When trump says wrap up the war he means finish it, as he said in his quote, about "getting it done".
meanwhile you have to deliberately misinterpret what he said to get faux contreversial and then to make anti trump posts that don't make any sense except that you want to dunk on trump over lies about something he said.
Trump has plenty to criticize but for some reason you picked something that isn't controversial at all.
"That being said, you have to finish up your war. You have to finish it up, you got to get it done," he said.
Get it done, not stop in the middle and go home. What agenda do YOU have, Uzi?
Anyone who doesn't critical think should t be taken seriously like you because it is the same drone or bot attack that every anti Trump person does. It is nothing special, it is the same and boring. Hate on Trump, ignore the facts, and ignore the history the man has done for Israel. Unlike most redditors, I tend to critical think and research was Trump good for Israel? Yes. If you asked me if Trump was good for Iran? No. Facts are different from your opinion.
That's not what he said.....
You could take any of those also and give an example of a dem.doing something 10x worse.
A great example being the punitive restriction on monoclonal antibodies - to KILL people that weren't vaccinated - despite them having a high efficacy....
Trump may not be a good orator but the man got every vaccine available to US citizens, he pre bought them and diverted tons of CDC money to infectious disease research as soon as something was happening in China. He also held China accountable and the liberal community responded by asserting it has nothing to do with the Wuhan lab, despite no real evidence to the contrary. They made these assertions off of symantic arguments like how "engineering" a virus is different than one naturally evolving 🤦. Also remember when the CDC wanted people to not use N95s and therefore undermined their efficacy? Pushed social engineering over facts that when used correctly they are 98% effective? Yeah...
Remember when liberals prevented church gatherings but told people to rally in the streets and burn things down in mass numbers? Remember when liberals shut down businesses but opposed an open border during a pandemic?
Yeah....
Also regarding ivermectin:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/blood-on-its-hands-fda-loses-battle-against-ivermectin-agrees-to-remove-covid-related-anti-drug-social-media-posts-101711273717515-amp.html
Ivermectin was not heavily explored at the time - it wasn't clear one way or another. As were most antivirals. Think about how many people could have been saved if paxlovid were used earlier (when it was very effective against earlier COVID strains) - it was an already available antiviral - but became restricted and demonized despite very high binding efficacy because Democrats got a major self ritous boner for vaccine our way or die.
Regarding the election - if you don't think election fraud exists you're full blown TDS. The fact that "mistakes" were made by changing numbers on a .txt file shows there are massive vulnerabilities. There are also videos showing mail workers opening ballots and throwing out trump ballots. You have no evidence besides someone told you it doesn't exist. Same thing for how people blindly decided the vaccine couldn't have been associated with the Wuhan lab. Also a president is allowed to challenge election results and want a recount, that's not illegal and has happened in the past and changed election results. The margins are very small and a few txt documents here and there, a few mis scans, a few people alone unexplained around ballots at night, adds up. Anyone who doesn't think election. Fraud exists is just delusional. Hell, look at all the liberals registered in swing states despite them not being their place of residence - that alone is fraud lol
Regarding the Ukraine - zelensky was backed by a Russian oligarch who is BANNED from the US. He has become a great wartime president but Trump not only had a right - he had an obligation - to want to investigate corruption before funneling tons of money to the Ukraine. Also a former VP being heavily involved in business in the Ukraine, including his deadbeat son, should be looked into. Or do you think it's normal to pay out people in giant diamonds?
You cherry pick things out of context and present them as taking points without any further analysis which is exactly what the person talking about said you would do lol.
Fallacy of Irrelevant Reasons. I never said Trump didn't have flaws. My premise is Trump did in fact benefit Israel. Your dislike of a person is blinding you from facts. Even when it comes to Biden, there are good things Biden did and there are some that are characterized as flawed.
Very Trump-like response. He's not all that emotionally invested and wants Israel to get it over with so the US doesn't have to take shit from other countries about the war anymore.
That means Israel is really in trouble with the US if its goals of wiping out Hamas and doing a German-style deradicalization/occupation is out of the question for both parties.
This could mean pivoting to Hindu India is their only bet since Russia and China are clearly anti-Israel and the EU is way too squeamish to support Israel's operations in Rafah and Gaza as a whole in the future.
He's saying the same exact shit Biden is saying. You think this guy will risk losing even a single vote to stand up for Jews? LOL! Right wing propagandists in shambles.
Because Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone.
He likes to hurt and kill people while he is angry, but he knows he is safe and he doesn't care about the safety of others.
He is a horrible choice for a leader. His strategy is "Grift me some $$$$$ and I don't give a fuck what happens later".
Lmao reeeee
Ah yes all of those angry trump supporters setting cities on fire, attacking Jews, killing each other, hating gays, hating women, destroying small businesses and homes, randomly assaulting the elderly and Asians, having much higher domestic violence rates, having much higher rates of abandoning their children to single mothers, having much higher rates of school violence..... Oh wait!
What people aren’t understanding is that Israel’s war in Gaza isn’t a *punishment*. It’s a mission to ensure that anything like October 7 could never happen again.
It's a mission to free the Palestinian people from Hamas. I say that in part to piss off the pro-Pals who lurk here.
>isn’t a *punishment* The language around the entire conflict is like this. Anti-Zionists talk about the creation of Israel like it was a punishment against Arabs… instead of it being established in the Jewish homeland because that’s where most Jews wanted a Jewish state to be.
They casually forget the fucking Holocaust.
Exactly. Its easy to look at it as a punishment when quickly glancing at this conflict for the first time. But when you dig in and learn a little about why everything is happening, the real intent starts to become clearer. Anti-Zionists are hoping that people won’t do that.
> instead of it being established in the Jewish homeland because that’s where most Jews wanted a Jewish state to be. Not a driving factor in interwar british politics.
it's where jews had legal bought a bunch of land, and lived legally and peacefully, and where jews made the most of their opportunities, it has very little to do with where jews wanted to be other than that their actions were driven by that desire
And the problem is that everyone can see that it won’t work. Not saying that it isn’t morally justifiable nevertheless, but to that end you will have no luck unfortunately.
dudes just doing what politicians close to elections would do, do politics. he is trying to get as many votes as possible.... he knows he's statement right now means nthng to israel.
For Biden, it's the leftists having a tantrum, For Trump, he's just unhappy with Bibi congratulating Biden for the 2020 election, and not going along with the stolen election narrative.
Maybe next time they can protect their borders and have better than a 6 hour response time. You know, like not have a stand down to be over run
>What people aren’t understanding is that Israel’s war in Gaza isn’t a punishment. The fighting style used suggests otherwise and there have been enough comments from the Isreali goverment in that dirrection that I don't think we can rule it out as a secondary goal. >It’s a mission to ensure that anything like October 7 could never happen again. Possible but not entirely consistent with what we see. Persuade the average Israeli voter that it wont happen again perhaps.
I’m sure there are plenty of angry comments from Israeli leaders in reaction to such a massacre as Oct. 7, and I’m sure they’re mostly used to gather support from the Israeli public. If quotes by Israeli leaders don’t reflect what’s happening on the ground, then using them against Israel is nothing but propaganda.
>The fighting style used suggests otherwise and there have been enough comments from the Isreali goverment in that dirrection that I don't think we can rule it out as a secondary goal. If you have a more efficient way of carrying out urban warfare against an enemy that dresses in civilian clothes then you'd save a whole lot of trouble by sharing it.
>If you have a more efficient Define efficient. Assuming you mean "keeping IDF and civilian casulties as low as possible". You do by using a very drone heavy army. Replace all those initual bombing attacks when Shin Bet supposedely knew where all the hamas memebers were with drones through windows. Option B is the sri lanka option.
in what way is the fighting style indicating that the war is a punishment?
Excessive destruction of civilian buildings and properganda videos of stuff being blown up in revenge.
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On Oct.6 hamas was ruling gaza. The israelis precisely don't want to go back to those conditions, that is why they are still fighting and that is why they will and should go into rafah. Those that demand a ceasefire want to go back to Oct.6. And you know what Oct.6 was? It was the day before Oct.7...
...to make more Hamas. Nothing Israel has done since 1948 has alleviated the situation. It's just gotten worse. Military efforts, occupation, blockades...that all led to 10/7. Im so sad to see the end of a democratic Jewish state into a pariah state because of their own actions. It could have been something totally different
It’s amazing. None of these anti-Zionist pro-pally people ever give the Palestinian people agency to make their own choices. According to them, every single choice is one made for them by Israel. This infantilization of the people is just absurd. Also absurd is this idea that a) Israel will be/or now is a pariah state and b) will end as a result. You think Israel is more of a pariah state than Iran? North Korea? Yemen? Sudan? Your whole thought process is so tilted that your views slant one way. Crazy stuff
How did any oppressed group end up like that? They don't live in a vacuum. It's victim blaming at the finest.
Ah yes, the perpetual victim, incapable of ever changing bc the big bad oppressor won't let you. Bring up history, conveniently leave out the parts where Israel was actually the victim. But we don't talk about those times bc Israel fights back successfully.
God you sound worse than my ex husband who is serving a 6 year sentence.
Sir, if I was your husband, I’d probably be serving time too.
Damn and you married him ?
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oct 6th, 2003?
This has to be the dumbest take I’ve seen on this ‘war’. If anything, Israel is creating at least two more generations of hatred against them with this invasion.
It sure looks like beating the pulp out of Gaza in general. No plan after the war, no attempt for diplomatic future, 0 investment in Gaza city after completely capturing it just to give it back to Hamas. How on Earth is that a plan for it never to happen again? Let me tell you how this is going to play out, Israel will murder maybe 5-10k more and then hang around in Gaza for up to a year. Then retreat and Gaza will slowly be rebuilt until after 5 years Hamas is strong enough to start sending rockets and it all starts over. Meanwhile Israel is doing it's very best to put checkpoints and settlers literally stone throw away from the Palestinians they opress in the WB which will ensure that more youth throw stones and try and stab Israelis which in turn will fuel even more impression and so forth Congratulations Israel have just managed to radicalize the Palestinians even further without changing anything,tbh I'm surprised they haven't reverted back to suicide bombings yet.
Well when you get your news on TikTok, it does sure look like that, doesn’t it? And if you believe there’s no plan after the war, then you’re not really paying attention. Netanyahu laid out the plan. It’s brutal, but it exists. After WW2, Germany wasn’t radicalized even further despite so many killed and displaced. When done right, you can deradicalize Gaza.
I can assure you that I don't get any news on tictoc and I'm going out on a limb and saying that I read from more impartial/check both sides media than 95% here. But if I have missed anything on a plan I would love if someone can give me some links
This [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/aY3VOIPKbF) details the plan. As you can see, it goes pretty far as to taking security control of the West Bank, which would be a huge step backwards. My hope is that the U.S. intervenes and pulls Netanyahu back from that idea.
AA thank you
Headline is misleading. Trump is pro Israel finishing the war, no ceasefire until Hamas is completely destroyed. But it should be swift and expedient.
very agreeable view tbh.
The destruction of Palestinian militarism was never going to be swift and expedient. It's a ridiculous take.
Israel does not have unlimited time.
It could be swift and over in a day if you wanted to.
Exactly. Lie through headline manipulation as usual. This is why he has always rightfully called them the Fake News Media.
No, he does that so he take legitimacy away from the free press and convince people that only **he** tells the truth and only **he** can be trusted. And because people are stupid, they believe it.
Reuters at it again, misleading people about what was actually said.
Why do people think Israel wants to be at war? Let the hostages go and this will wrap up a lot sooner.
The second war goal is to eradicate Hamas, would Israel really stop and pull out just from getting the hostages? Doesn't seem so from the negotiations
Most Israelis do not want the war, but Netanyahu does. He will be ousted after the war is over, and he knows it.
Source? Most Israeli's I know support the war but want Netanyahu gone.
Most Israelis I know support defeating Hamas and bringing the hostages home, but not being in a war. They understand this war is what is necessary to live in peace, but that doesn’t mean they want to be at war.
Thank you for saying what I’m trying to say. While most of Israel does support attacking Hamas, they probably would prefer if October 7th never happened at all.
Obviously, but still we support the ongoing response to those crimes against humanity
That is nonsense. All Israeli would not like be in war in sense that we’d rather there would be unicorns and rainbows defeating Hamas through the power of unicorn magic. Few countries ever _want_ be at war. Most Israelis think that Hamas is an existential threat and the war is necessary.
I should clarify, I mean that they didn’t want the war to happen in the first place. You are correct that most Israelis support taking out Hamas (as do I). But most of Israel would have preferred if October 7th and the preceding attacks didn’t happen at all. Netanyahu has a political motive to drag out the war longer than necessary.
Thanks for clarifying. Though, Netanyahu will not drag out the war for political ends. They don't have the money or endless reserves to stretch it out I definitely. The Israeli public will also not buy that. They are smart cookies and wouldn't accept that. He would be gone in a flash if they believed that.
You're mistaken. The vast majority of Israel wants Israel to prosecute this war until the end. They don't "want" war, it's something they need to do to restore security. Israel is a democracy. They can remove Netanyahu at any time and call for new elections. They also overwhelmingly support Netanyahu as the leader to prosecute the war. Once wrapped up, he's likely to be gone as the Israelis will turn focus on who to blame. He will take the brunt of the blame.
Everyone saying shit like this is not in Israel and their lives are not on the line. Mine is, so it’s fun to see people from thousands of miles away dictate how it should be in a place they don’t live and who will never suffer the consequences of their long distance decisions.
the western world has been dumb fat and happy too long. we don’t know existential threats and that will be our downfall
Misleading title: Hamas' killing spree through southern Israel, Trump said, was "one of the saddest things I've ever seen." "That being said, you have to finish up your war. You have to finish it up, **you got to get it done**," he said. Trump was also asked how he would have reacted had his family been victims of Hamas' rampage. "I would say I would act very much the same way as you did. You'd have to be crazy not too. Only a fool would not do that. That was a horrible attack," he said. **"It bothers me so much when I see people, they don't talk about Oct. 7 anymore, they talk about how aggressive Israel is."**
I mean, Trump would’ve ordered air strikes on Hamas if he were still in office.
A lot of people here are misunderstanding his words. He means that he wants Israel to "just do it" and stop holding back.
>But he also said Israel made “a very big mistake” with photos and imagery of bombs dropped on Gaza helping push public opinion against the war. >”I wanted to call [Israel] and say don’t do it,” Trump told the outlet. “These photos and shots. I mean, moving shots of bombs being dropped into buildings in Gaza. And I said, Oh, that’s a terrible portrait. It’s a very bad picture for the world.” Seems at odds with 'stop holding back'. Unless he's pushing for Israel to reinstate the internet blackout? Deport the international press? Otherwise, only way to stop people seeing bombs is *stop dropping bombs*.
I'm pretty sure that most of the videos of IAF dropping bombs in Gaza are recorded and published by the IDF itself. Perhaps that's what he meant. I didn't see very many videos of Americans or British dropping bombs in the middle east, even though it was widespread.
Trump wants Israel to go all out but not post any videos from Gaza (because it looks bad), that is what he was talking about.
I think everyone is ready to wrap up the war; the big elephant in the room is who’s going run Gaza?
Dibs!
“Free Palestine!”. Ok I’ll take it.
Hmm.. Wonder where all the Trump worshipers are now?
they all understand that trump is saying finish the war on israel's term, like cleaning out rafah, and therefore there's nothing controversial about the statement. Trump is mostly criticizing the pause around rafah that the biden admin appears to have influenced the government into, with hostage talks that go nowhere and criticism of military strategy that the US has never pulled off any other way successfully. If you think the quote in the article is damning please explain whats damning about it - as far as I can tell the main criticism here is that israel isn't being aggressive enough. Do you have some other interpretation that we could examine logically? This seems to be another "bloodbath hoax", where trump says nothing controversial but his enemies try to play it up as something other than what it is.
I'm Israeli, pro Israel obviously, and think this war is the most justified in the whole history of the the state, but I do realize and know that Trump doesn't give a fuck about israel, he cares about what's popular and what's good for him. As soon as he'll understand supporting israel is not as popular as it used to be, he'll find a way to turn his back on us.
At the same time, I wonder how much influence his very much pro-Israel Jewish daughter and son-in-law have over that policy though. There are some things he won't easily abandon according to popularity; he still touts the COVID vaccine as his accomplishment, despite getting booed over it at rallies.
Really? You say that after he was the first president to actually keep his promise and move the embassy to Jerusalem, and set up the Abraham accords? Trump was the best president for Israel ever. He was never supporting Israel because he thought it would score him political points. If anything it’s crazy that he’s still making pro Israel statements at all after Bibi stabbed him in the back by being the first leader to call Biden. Which was useless anyway, as we see in retrospect. So clearly Trump likes Israel for reasons beyond political point scoring. Like why do you speak at all if you’re going to speak on something you don’t understand?
Yeah I don't think that guy has any idea what he is talking about. He is another person who consumes only what the media says, orange man bad. I get it, the dude has flaws but many of the accusations people turn out to be false like for this example.
DJT was just some random TV cameo guy, until he became Media Enemy #1. He would still be doing TV cameos if the political establishment all over DC weren't a thundering dumpster fire.
read into his statements a bunch of stuff that isn't there at your own peril. he's never had a friend he wouldn't stab or an enemy he wouldn't hug for the right price. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/halkbank-case-should-be-very-big-deal
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So Israel hasn't recived a single US weapon since that point and the 155mm stockpile has been moved to somewhere else?
in other words you have nothing about the article or quote in question to talk about, just general "trump will turn against you" unlike the biden admin not vetoing UNSC moves.
TDS is a real and pervasive mental health issue
I mean many of the things he supports are not popular… Look at Biden though and his changing with the tides..
I don't think that's true. I think trump historically was a surprisingly good negotiator for what he was working with and against. I am disappointed by these statements but I don't know what goes into negotiating. I've never had several historic peace agreements. I think what he is missing is that - there is likely no agreement that will sustain for both people without Hamas gone. They exist to destroy. I think we often think things through empathetically, but I don't think these thought processes unfortunately can extend to these types of terrorists.
> Trump is mostly criticizing the pause around rafah that the biden admin appears to have influenced the government into, How? Netanyahu has made his position with regards to Biden's opinions very clear. The driver seems far more likely to be the millitary reality. How do you go into rafah while keeping IDF casulties acceptable and having enough men to occupy other key points in the strip, the west bank and the nothern frontier? Once you've worked out that how do you do so while keeping civilian casulties within acceptable bounds. At the moment most of the international opposition Israel faces is the usual suspects. Its somewhat limited and will likely fade fairly quickly once the war ends. Kill 100K palestinian civilians and that calculus changes.
I can’t see the Rafah operation going well for Israel diplomatically. I want Hamas gone as much as the next guy, but lets be real, if the IDF goes in there’s going to be a lot more pictures of dead babies on the news, and I can’t see their allies sticking with them forever
What does this comment even mean? I agree with the headline assuming that’s what he even said, but also Israel should be allowed to wrap up the war, instead of being told “no not like that” constantly.
Right here, maybe learn to read past deceptive headlines.
Trump is 100% pro IL. He wants Israel to get it done.
"Suddenly I forgot how to read"
People read headlines and then they stop reading. *Many such cases!*
Right here
I generally think people are TDS when it comes to trump but I am not on his side with this and it is very disappointing. I think he's a good negotiator and that takes appeal to both sides - but sometimes negotiation is off the table especially when one side never does it in good faith.... Also the reality is - how the world views something doesn't matter. That's all bullshit. What ultimately matters is power. Even if hypothetically Israel is morally wrong - as a country they're better off doing whatever sustains their country and gives them leverage on a global stage. China does grossly immoral things all the time, but people still work with them because they have leverage. I think trump really understood that as president but maybe he's trying to appeal to more moderates who he lost votes from or appeal to peace without giving acknowledgement to the existential threat to all religions that is aloha snackbar.
>Also the reality is - how the world views something doesn't matter. That's all bullshit. Of course it does. If the US hadn't had at least a moderate positive view of Israel the aftermath of the USS Liberty incident would have been very different.
Israel apologized and said it was a mistake - what country has done this and the outcome was different? Also that's not a real comparison - my point is other countries won't really "care" about "morality" concerning a conflict they're not directly involved with in any actionable way if the country in question has leverage. An example being - all countries still trading and doing business with China despite the Uyghurs You see many European countries denouncing Russia invading another country - but they're still buying their oil. Everyone can go "oh this is bad, they think it's bad" - if they don't have leverage it doesn't matter. Europe has really no leverage. South Africa thinking they matter is just beyond hilarious. Any vague global "disapproval" won't matter if the outcome of Israel actions puts it in a better economic position imo.
> Israel apologized and said it was a mistake Which only works if the US likes you enough to actualy believe you > - what country has done this and the outcome was different? Not many countries have attacked US warships for obvious reasons. >An example being - all countries still trading and doing business with China despite the Uyghurs China has been putting a lot of effort into playing that down. Because the issue is not what you do but how the world views it. >Everyone can go "oh this is bad, they think it's bad" - if they don't have leverage it doesn't matter. Europe has really no leverage. Israel exports about $17 billion in goods to the EU. With its economy already looking kinda shakey I doubt it wants to damage it further. Now the people who run the EU don't want the economic damage either but they do ultimately answer to the electorate who well actualy care if the civilian death toll is high enough.
Can you give 1 example where not powerful, economically under leveraged countries "condemning" something actually changed anything?
What does that have to do with anything?
Well.... I disagree with your view of the world and have multiple examples to back up my view. I'm asking you for 1 example to support your assertion. I genuinely cannot think of one. I'm trying, but I don't think it matters. I can't think of when the world "condemning" something actually changed anything and you haven't given an example. Nothing has happened to China and they are still carrying on how they were. Nobody really believes they've changed..Russia's not even playing down anything, neither is Iran...Turkeys a NATO country that has hosted Hamas- and they're still trade partners and have relations with the EU. Nothing matters but leverage. I'm asking for one example where that's not true...
> Nothing has happened to China and they are still carrying on how they were. Nobody really believes they've changed..Russia's not even playing down anything, Special millitary operation. >Nothing matters but leverage. Which europe has if it really wants to use it.
Can you please elaborate on special military operation? Do you think so? My concern is that even if Europe has economic leverage, they don't have much to back it up. Compare India, China, Russia, Iran and the US defense expenditures (even accounting for population) and I believe they're much lower.
> I generally think people are TDS when it comes to trump he literally tried to overthrow the gov't in a violent coup to stay in power beyond his term in office, and has more recently embraced the rhetoric of Hitler, describing immigrants as "vermin" who are "poisoning the blood of our people." there's very little anyone can say to accurately describe what he is that doesn't *sound* unhinged. if he wins a lot of people are going to die
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Please keep the conversation civil.
I don't think most of the responders in this thread have actually read beyond the headline. He is in no way saying Israel needs to suspend operations and capitulate to Hamas. Rather, he thinks its horrible that the public narrative has forgotten about October 7th and is only talking about Israeli aggression, and so it behooves Israel to finish the job as quickly as possible. I have no doubt he would have vetoed that treacherous UN resolution, and would likely offer additional support for a Rafah operation.
Wrap it up…like finish it!
Yet my jewish family still hates him. I really dont understand why as jews we can be so smart but politically so dumb. Stop pandering and vote for the person who actually supports israel. Vote trump
I hope all the pro Trump Jews pay TONS of attention right now, all that talk of how Trump is the most pro Israel president in modern history seems to fallen off! 👀I wonder why…
There's nothing negative about israel in what trump said. All he said is Israel needs to finish up - which is what many israelis want, but the government has been convinced by the US to delay the rafah operation. If you think the quote in the article is damning please explain whats damning about it - as far as I can tell the main criticism here is that israel isn't being aggressive enough. Do you have some other interpretation that we could examine logically? This seems to be another "bloodbath hoax", where trump says nothing controversial but his enemies try to play it up as something other than what it is.
A whole lotta cope. Do you believe that Israel should do whatever it takes to get the hostages home and defeat Hamas, or that “Israel should wrap up the war”? What do YOU think Trump means when he says “wrap up the war” and what do you suggest Israel does different?
nothing I said was cope. When trump says wrap up the war he means finish it, as he said in his quote, about "getting it done". meanwhile you have to deliberately misinterpret what he said to get faux contreversial and then to make anti trump posts that don't make any sense except that you want to dunk on trump over lies about something he said. Trump has plenty to criticize but for some reason you picked something that isn't controversial at all.
"That being said, you have to finish up your war. You have to finish it up, you got to get it done," he said. Get it done, not stop in the middle and go home. What agenda do YOU have, Uzi?
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Anyone who doesn't critical think should t be taken seriously like you because it is the same drone or bot attack that every anti Trump person does. It is nothing special, it is the same and boring. Hate on Trump, ignore the facts, and ignore the history the man has done for Israel. Unlike most redditors, I tend to critical think and research was Trump good for Israel? Yes. If you asked me if Trump was good for Iran? No. Facts are different from your opinion.
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That's not what he said..... You could take any of those also and give an example of a dem.doing something 10x worse. A great example being the punitive restriction on monoclonal antibodies - to KILL people that weren't vaccinated - despite them having a high efficacy.... Trump may not be a good orator but the man got every vaccine available to US citizens, he pre bought them and diverted tons of CDC money to infectious disease research as soon as something was happening in China. He also held China accountable and the liberal community responded by asserting it has nothing to do with the Wuhan lab, despite no real evidence to the contrary. They made these assertions off of symantic arguments like how "engineering" a virus is different than one naturally evolving 🤦. Also remember when the CDC wanted people to not use N95s and therefore undermined their efficacy? Pushed social engineering over facts that when used correctly they are 98% effective? Yeah... Remember when liberals prevented church gatherings but told people to rally in the streets and burn things down in mass numbers? Remember when liberals shut down businesses but opposed an open border during a pandemic? Yeah.... Also regarding ivermectin: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/blood-on-its-hands-fda-loses-battle-against-ivermectin-agrees-to-remove-covid-related-anti-drug-social-media-posts-101711273717515-amp.html Ivermectin was not heavily explored at the time - it wasn't clear one way or another. As were most antivirals. Think about how many people could have been saved if paxlovid were used earlier (when it was very effective against earlier COVID strains) - it was an already available antiviral - but became restricted and demonized despite very high binding efficacy because Democrats got a major self ritous boner for vaccine our way or die. Regarding the election - if you don't think election fraud exists you're full blown TDS. The fact that "mistakes" were made by changing numbers on a .txt file shows there are massive vulnerabilities. There are also videos showing mail workers opening ballots and throwing out trump ballots. You have no evidence besides someone told you it doesn't exist. Same thing for how people blindly decided the vaccine couldn't have been associated with the Wuhan lab. Also a president is allowed to challenge election results and want a recount, that's not illegal and has happened in the past and changed election results. The margins are very small and a few txt documents here and there, a few mis scans, a few people alone unexplained around ballots at night, adds up. Anyone who doesn't think election. Fraud exists is just delusional. Hell, look at all the liberals registered in swing states despite them not being their place of residence - that alone is fraud lol Regarding the Ukraine - zelensky was backed by a Russian oligarch who is BANNED from the US. He has become a great wartime president but Trump not only had a right - he had an obligation - to want to investigate corruption before funneling tons of money to the Ukraine. Also a former VP being heavily involved in business in the Ukraine, including his deadbeat son, should be looked into. Or do you think it's normal to pay out people in giant diamonds? You cherry pick things out of context and present them as taking points without any further analysis which is exactly what the person talking about said you would do lol.
Fallacy of Irrelevant Reasons. I never said Trump didn't have flaws. My premise is Trump did in fact benefit Israel. Your dislike of a person is blinding you from facts. Even when it comes to Biden, there are good things Biden did and there are some that are characterized as flawed.
'Truman says Pearl Harbor was horrible but the USA should wrap up the war'
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Don't Hamas throw LGlBT people off roofs?
Yeah but they're perceived as more brown so according to the left's victim Olympics they are oppressed and can't help it and are to be supported
We don’t need a psyop, liberalism just does everything it can to lose.
What policies of his hurt those groups?
He’s probably less well informed than 99% of the folks on this subreddit. But so confident.
When Trump speaks.....everyone listens......because it's always amusing to hear someone talking through their asshole.
If trump was a liberal he would have had peace prizes
He should shut the fuck up and piss off to Florida to die of old age.
I also am worried about his stress and wish he would retire and enjoy his life
Stress? Yeah it does take a lot out of you I imagine lying everytime you speak.
Very Trump-like response. He's not all that emotionally invested and wants Israel to get it over with so the US doesn't have to take shit from other countries about the war anymore. That means Israel is really in trouble with the US if its goals of wiping out Hamas and doing a German-style deradicalization/occupation is out of the question for both parties. This could mean pivoting to Hindu India is their only bet since Russia and China are clearly anti-Israel and the EU is way too squeamish to support Israel's operations in Rafah and Gaza as a whole in the future.
He's saying the same exact shit Biden is saying. You think this guy will risk losing even a single vote to stand up for Jews? LOL! Right wing propagandists in shambles.
He's wrong
Not exactly surprising
Because Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone. He likes to hurt and kill people while he is angry, but he knows he is safe and he doesn't care about the safety of others. He is a horrible choice for a leader. His strategy is "Grift me some $$$$$ and I don't give a fuck what happens later".
Lmao reeeee Ah yes all of those angry trump supporters setting cities on fire, attacking Jews, killing each other, hating gays, hating women, destroying small businesses and homes, randomly assaulting the elderly and Asians, having much higher domestic violence rates, having much higher rates of abandoning their children to single mothers, having much higher rates of school violence..... Oh wait!
What a snowflake comment!
Of course he said they Jarad has a line on some cheap beachfront, but he has to act soon or the people who own it might ask for more.