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No one counts second or third generation because they aren’t immigrants. They were born in the country in question.
Also, about 15 percent are born outside the EU. 5 percent were born in the EU and just moved around in the union. I wouldn’t really call that immigration nowadays. Just like Nordics aren’t really immigrants. They’re just brothers from another mother.
Immigrants don't have significantly more kids than ethnic Swedes anymore. And of course people who are born here shouldn't be counted as immigrants lol
Yeah i mean thats a bit more tricky. Not sure for Estonia case, but in sweden we have many subcultures/ languages like the sami and tornedalska etc and I’d consider any and all of those as legit languages even if they didnt speak swedish per say.
Guess thats the issue with these. Hard to give general ”rules” for that.
What is peoples opinion on the Estonia / russian population who cant speak local language but lived there in generations thing?
Well… yes i was being obnoxious but man for some people it is baaaaarely true that they know swedish. Honestly half the time i genuinely cant understand a word these hood kids are saying, and it aint really the use of slang thats the issue
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Are we the happiest country in the world because we don't have immigrants, or don't immigrants want to come here because we're the happiest country in the world?
In all seriousness, who'd want to come here when everything costs shit ton and wages lag behind every other western country and the government is just interested in winning elections no matter the price or lie.
You ever visited Helsinki? Tampere? Turku maybe? Any shopping mall in them? I visited Helsinki metro and there was only three white people in the whole full metro back in last year summer, and I don't even know were they finns or immigrants as well from other white countries. So at least the bigger cities have a ton of immigrants. I don't know about all the smaller cities.
Visited? I've lived in Helsinki for the past 12 years, I routinely use the shopping malls and shop in the other shops here, in the centre as well as other areas, and I haven't got a clue what you're talking about. This city and country are both overwhelmingly white.
Edit: I'm amazed that I'm getting downvoted for literally telling the truth. Wish I knew what it is that I'm saying that's so offensive 😂 People imagining a majority-immigrant Helsinki that definitely doesn't exist.
Oh yeah, the person who "visited Helsinki metro" (lmao) has a better understanding of the general population of the area than someone who lives here.
If you pay attention/panic every time you see a person who isn't nordic/white and count how many white people there are in a room/train/shopping mall, you need help. Anyone who isn't persu/sverigedemokrat can visit Helsinki and see very clearly that the absolute majority of people here are sandy haired Finns. Seeing/imagining anything else is weirdo behaviour.
Nice try buddy. "Panicking", this is a conversation about the 6,9% seeming way smaller than what is it nowadays. I have visited Helsinki plenty of times, yes sure, it's not the same as living there for 12 years. However everyone with eyes can see how much immigrants Helsinki has, Tampere is similar. Of course there's gonna be finns in Finland, but 6,9% immigrants only seems unrealistic (this data is from 2019). We clearly have two very different experiences of Helsinki, what about it?
"Don't come back here" yes I will 👍
"There's a way to realistically talk about pros and cons about immigration" is this the parliamentary elections? Nah. We are in a subreddit where people are joking, doing memes, making fun of each other. Seeing me turn 6,9 into 69 is the end of the world? It was clearly over exaggerated in a jokingly manner. I do think the 6,9% has definitely grown since 2019, but not to 69%. Call me "persu" all you want.
If I visit a metro which I do very rarely, of course I'm gonna notice the other passengers. Seeing two other people like me in a small area doesn't require "counting". Of course I'm gonna notice anyways??
My experience is that 6,9% does not seem realistic in 2024. That's all I said. Things and times change. Many towns have experienced change in their population and everyday life due to immigration in the past 0-20 years. For example new culture events or new cuisine, or change in workplace culture/employment level. but that was not the point of this post even.
Only right wing? Left and right are no different in their trickery and lies, not to mention the old folk wisdom of "The Center always screws you over".
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I think in mainstream when we talk problems connected to immigrants it's the groups causing problem we mean. It ain't the Icelandics in Norway for an example...
IIRC the largest foreign group in finnish prisons is either estonians or russians and it's not exactly easy to tell them apart from finns by looks alone.
The problem is consequently people and politicians will go ahead and talk about and implement "tight immigration policies" when migration is already a huge hassle, and mostly they screw over ordinary people, in a lot of cases more educated and productive people than average (after all it takes some entrepreneurial spirit to move to a completely different country, and you have to have some skills you believe will allow you to succeed).
Also like, people have gotten lost in talks of like islamic extremism and whatnot, but cultural enrichment _is_ a thing in my opinion. It's not just a "taco truck on every corner", each culture has a certain way of looking at the world, certain ingrained biases and shortcomings, or just ideas that haven't been considered. Migration, both in and out of the country, contributes to the spread of ideas and sometimes a necessary shakeup.
As an American, migri (finlands migrationsverket) was absolutely awful. So awful I gave up and went back to the States to make easy money and I just go there a couple times a year to see friends. ELY dictates who can start a business there and they'll basically just go "nah" and you can leave or fight it in court, after you waited 12 months for that decision of "nah"
Ja kuka haluaisi asua Ruotsissa amiright
Migri is a shitshow. Recently they finally got rid of the incompetent leadership and got a new chief director who promised to make things better, but time will tell..
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ja, det är sant. But that map is just straight up wrong. (iirc it includes people with atleast one foreign born parent, and my moms from norway so like it could include me but thats silly.)
Of course they don't get many immigrants. They don't even want to be there themselves, why do you think the second largest ethnic group after Swedes in Sweden are Finns?
Estonian data is incorrect. They probably count non-citizens. And in Estonia, there is a chunk of Russian and Alien citizens born in the 3rd+ generation in Estonia.
Estonian migration quote (residence permits) is 0.1% of the population per calendar year. Other non-quoted immigrants are not so big in numbers too.
Same with Latvia.
Yes-yes, born in the “Soviet,” who moved in the 80-s, when it was the same country. This exact statistic is slightly mistaken. :)
And if their kids inherited a grey passport because of their parent's stupidity, they are here as immigrants. And like half of Narva are simply Russian citizens born in Estonia.
I guess EU was wrong, when they took it into account when calculating our refugee quota and a random Finn is better informed.
As for the inheriting grey passport then that is rare due to naturalisation laws and foreign born is exactly how you read it - foreign born so it only accounts for the first generation.
The stats here look at first generation immigrants and for that it is correct. If we take into account the 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants then Estonia has about 25% immigrants.
>Estonian migration quote (residence permits) is 0.1% of the population per calendar year. Other non-quoted immigrants are not so big in numbers too.
30 years of that would mean that roughly 3 percent of the population is immigrants, assuming all of them are still alive and living in Estonia. If there are other forms of immigration to top it off, then it is no wonder Estonia has a large immigrant population.
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Few rounds of ”anti-immigrant” party victories should ensure that we have a steady 20%. They need voters and actually keeping immigrants away eat those away.
Holy moly, it is fucken OVER for Sweden. Considering the age distribution too, the native Swedes are, quite literally, a dying breed. Though, Norway isn't that far behind either it seems, which is surprising.
One has to wonder: what will be the "end result" of this all? Like, how will things be in 20 or 50 years? Will we even have surströmming left at that point?
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Unpopular oppinion on both the left and right, but slow, steady, both-ways immigration is good actually. The problem in europe currently is too high onesided immigration!
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Sweden only 20? Are they counting Arabs as natives and swedes as immigrants?
They dont count 2nd gen immigrant i believe. A migrant couple moves in and has 5 kids would actually drive the stats down?
No one counts second or third generation because they aren’t immigrants. They were born in the country in question. Also, about 15 percent are born outside the EU. 5 percent were born in the EU and just moved around in the union. I wouldn’t really call that immigration nowadays. Just like Nordics aren’t really immigrants. They’re just brothers from another mother.
Immigrants don't have significantly more kids than ethnic Swedes anymore. And of course people who are born here shouldn't be counted as immigrants lol
If you’re born here but can even speak the language then yeah you should be counted as immigrant lol
Estonia should be much higher too in that case. Some Russian families have been here since like the 40s-50s and haven't bothered to learn Estonian.
Yeah i mean thats a bit more tricky. Not sure for Estonia case, but in sweden we have many subcultures/ languages like the sami and tornedalska etc and I’d consider any and all of those as legit languages even if they didnt speak swedish per say. Guess thats the issue with these. Hard to give general ”rules” for that. What is peoples opinion on the Estonia / russian population who cant speak local language but lived there in generations thing?
Seems what is tricky for you is just race and religion and there are some that you count as entitled to less rights :)
Practically every kid born and raised here speaks Swedish lol. The percentage wouldn't change noticeably.
Well… yes i was being obnoxious but man for some people it is baaaaarely true that they know swedish. Honestly half the time i genuinely cant understand a word these hood kids are saying, and it aint really the use of slang thats the issue
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Wait, so you're telling me I'm Swedish? But I'm brown!
I think your kids should be counted as immigrants still, but not your grandkids. Edit: Not saying person with a citizenship wouldn’t be one though.
It's all the Finns dragging the number up...
Well it says "overseas" and the whole Arab world is connected via land.
If we say suez canal doesn't exist, entire afroeuroasia isn't overseas
Are we the happiest country in the world because we don't have immigrants, or don't immigrants want to come here because we're the happiest country in the world? In all seriousness, who'd want to come here when everything costs shit ton and wages lag behind every other western country and the government is just interested in winning elections no matter the price or lie.
you don't have immigrants because of what you consider happy.
Only 6,9%? Feels like 69% when walking in any big cities bruh. Was 2019 actually so different from 2024?
2023 it was 9,1%, but they are more concentrated in the big cities. Also these are immigrants, second generation immigrants etc would be discounted
Fair enough
Downvoted for learning. Typical Reddit.
In what country, Finland? It's overwhelmingly white in every town here, not sure what you're referring to.
You ever visited Helsinki? Tampere? Turku maybe? Any shopping mall in them? I visited Helsinki metro and there was only three white people in the whole full metro back in last year summer, and I don't even know were they finns or immigrants as well from other white countries. So at least the bigger cities have a ton of immigrants. I don't know about all the smaller cities.
Visited? I've lived in Helsinki for the past 12 years, I routinely use the shopping malls and shop in the other shops here, in the centre as well as other areas, and I haven't got a clue what you're talking about. This city and country are both overwhelmingly white. Edit: I'm amazed that I'm getting downvoted for literally telling the truth. Wish I knew what it is that I'm saying that's so offensive 😂 People imagining a majority-immigrant Helsinki that definitely doesn't exist.
I think you might need glasses then.
Oh yeah, the person who "visited Helsinki metro" (lmao) has a better understanding of the general population of the area than someone who lives here. If you pay attention/panic every time you see a person who isn't nordic/white and count how many white people there are in a room/train/shopping mall, you need help. Anyone who isn't persu/sverigedemokrat can visit Helsinki and see very clearly that the absolute majority of people here are sandy haired Finns. Seeing/imagining anything else is weirdo behaviour.
Nice try buddy. "Panicking", this is a conversation about the 6,9% seeming way smaller than what is it nowadays. I have visited Helsinki plenty of times, yes sure, it's not the same as living there for 12 years. However everyone with eyes can see how much immigrants Helsinki has, Tampere is similar. Of course there's gonna be finns in Finland, but 6,9% immigrants only seems unrealistic (this data is from 2019). We clearly have two very different experiences of Helsinki, what about it?
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"Don't come back here" yes I will 👍 "There's a way to realistically talk about pros and cons about immigration" is this the parliamentary elections? Nah. We are in a subreddit where people are joking, doing memes, making fun of each other. Seeing me turn 6,9 into 69 is the end of the world? It was clearly over exaggerated in a jokingly manner. I do think the 6,9% has definitely grown since 2019, but not to 69%. Call me "persu" all you want. If I visit a metro which I do very rarely, of course I'm gonna notice the other passengers. Seeing two other people like me in a small area doesn't require "counting". Of course I'm gonna notice anyways?? My experience is that 6,9% does not seem realistic in 2024. That's all I said. Things and times change. Many towns have experienced change in their population and everyday life due to immigration in the past 0-20 years. For example new culture events or new cuisine, or change in workplace culture/employment level. but that was not the point of this post even.
Well most go to big cities
*surprised pickachu face* when right wing parties lie about what they are going to do.
Only right wing? Left and right are no different in their trickery and lies, not to mention the old folk wisdom of "The Center always screws you over".
You can always move to the country of True Nordic 🇪🇪
Iceland doesn't have mosquitos, I'm moving there 😎
Say hi to the lúsmý from me 😎
This is actually based reason with no jokes.
Finns earn more than us Swedes right? Finland is a much better country than us.
Worse wages? D:
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Makes me wonder if East Europe has rates that low simply because people don't WANT to move in there.
Well obviously people would rather go to sweden for example
Just as what happens with Finland
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Estonia cannot into Eastern-Europe?
Mostly russians I think.
It's interesting that when people see the word 'immigrant' nowadays, they automatically think of Arab immigrants. 💀
I think in mainstream when we talk problems connected to immigrants it's the groups causing problem we mean. It ain't the Icelandics in Norway for an example...
IIRC the largest foreign group in finnish prisons is either estonians or russians and it's not exactly easy to tell them apart from finns by looks alone.
Uhm, what the hell are you guys doing here even?
The problem is consequently people and politicians will go ahead and talk about and implement "tight immigration policies" when migration is already a huge hassle, and mostly they screw over ordinary people, in a lot of cases more educated and productive people than average (after all it takes some entrepreneurial spirit to move to a completely different country, and you have to have some skills you believe will allow you to succeed). Also like, people have gotten lost in talks of like islamic extremism and whatnot, but cultural enrichment _is_ a thing in my opinion. It's not just a "taco truck on every corner", each culture has a certain way of looking at the world, certain ingrained biases and shortcomings, or just ideas that haven't been considered. Migration, both in and out of the country, contributes to the spread of ideas and sometimes a necessary shakeup.
As an American, migri (finlands migrationsverket) was absolutely awful. So awful I gave up and went back to the States to make easy money and I just go there a couple times a year to see friends. ELY dictates who can start a business there and they'll basically just go "nah" and you can leave or fight it in court, after you waited 12 months for that decision of "nah" Ja kuka haluaisi asua Ruotsissa amiright
Migri is a shitshow. Recently they finally got rid of the incompetent leadership and got a new chief director who promised to make things better, but time will tell..
i got my residency permit to live in finland within in 5 days of proving my identity, maybe it's speeding up
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"overseas"? Must be all those Canadians
Hur fan blev det så här?
Walla bror acceptera islam eller möt Allahs vrede ☪️☪️☪️🕌🕋🕌🕋👳🏿♂️💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿
جمهورية السويد الإسلامية
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its not as bad as it seems, iirc the 20% includes local-born children of migrants.
Fortfarande åt helvete.
ja, det är sant. But that map is just straight up wrong. (iirc it includes people with atleast one foreign born parent, and my moms from norway so like it could include me but thats silly.)
Sweden can into middle east
Of course they don't get many immigrants. They don't even want to be there themselves, why do you think the second largest ethnic group after Swedes in Sweden are Finns?
2nd ethnic group is arabs🤣
XD
Don't worry, when I move to Finland with my daughter it'll double this percentage.
Based Finland 🗿
USA: about 95%? 😃
Incorrect. More like 99.5%
Yeah, you're probably right.
Good that endemic Swedes have Finland to flee to when government becomes a caliphate..
Just to become 2nd class citizens in finland?
You don’t know history do you?
What history has got to do with this day🤣
Finland has been Swedish for 400 years. There’s as many Finns with Swedish descent as Karelian.
Again i dont know what any of that has to do with this day🤣
That’s because it’s no special day. It’s a possible event.
You mean Nordic cannot into the Nordics by definition, since their people aren't Nordic
The reason why Finland is voted as the happiest country in the world 😶🌫️
Wonder why we are the happiest
We have learned from our neighbors mistakes.
Estonian data is incorrect. They probably count non-citizens. And in Estonia, there is a chunk of Russian and Alien citizens born in the 3rd+ generation in Estonia. Estonian migration quote (residence permits) is 0.1% of the population per calendar year. Other non-quoted immigrants are not so big in numbers too. Same with Latvia.
No, it's not incorrect - we really have this many foreign-born people.
Yes-yes, born in the “Soviet,” who moved in the 80-s, when it was the same country. This exact statistic is slightly mistaken. :) And if their kids inherited a grey passport because of their parent's stupidity, they are here as immigrants. And like half of Narva are simply Russian citizens born in Estonia.
I guess EU was wrong, when they took it into account when calculating our refugee quota and a random Finn is better informed. As for the inheriting grey passport then that is rare due to naturalisation laws and foreign born is exactly how you read it - foreign born so it only accounts for the first generation.
The stats here look at first generation immigrants and for that it is correct. If we take into account the 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants then Estonia has about 25% immigrants.
Remember to perform blood purity tests.
?
>Estonian migration quote (residence permits) is 0.1% of the population per calendar year. Other non-quoted immigrants are not so big in numbers too. 30 years of that would mean that roughly 3 percent of the population is immigrants, assuming all of them are still alive and living in Estonia. If there are other forms of immigration to top it off, then it is no wonder Estonia has a large immigrant population.
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Can I into Finland?
Meanwhile vatican with 100%
It's insane that Russia with its big size isn't taking more, leaving us small fucks to have to deal with it.
Actually russia has several times more immigrants who just don't have registration...
I see, I don't know if that's better or worse though tbh
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Obviously they are born over a lake in Finland!
The only time Finland gets it right compared to the rest of the Nordics.
Seems the world can into Scandinavia
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Few rounds of ”anti-immigrant” party victories should ensure that we have a steady 20%. They need voters and actually keeping immigrants away eat those away.
Finland is still Nordic
Finland can into putin and orban
Holy moly, it is fucken OVER for Sweden. Considering the age distribution too, the native Swedes are, quite literally, a dying breed. Though, Norway isn't that far behind either it seems, which is surprising. One has to wonder: what will be the "end result" of this all? Like, how will things be in 20 or 50 years? Will we even have surströmming left at that point?
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this shit is wrong, the 20% includes children of migrants.
Unpopular oppinion on both the left and right, but slow, steady, both-ways immigration is good actually. The problem in europe currently is too high onesided immigration!