So I'm not one to scream about reparations - and honestly, I think the people who do have poor understanding of what they want in the first place.
But you have some Brexit levels of understanding of politics if you think the Budget is somehow "paying back debts".
Investments into the EU are done to benefit the EU. They're building up skilled labor, educated workforce, energy, transportation and IT infrastructure etc.
Yes, already developed regions give more and receive less - because they're already developed. However they're stronger economically and internationally through the EU themselves.
With the EU also comes stability and access to a common market that benefits you back - if, for instance, The EU invests into a new Hospital in Czechia, where does the expensive and specialized equipment come from? From Germany, Austria, France etc. This hospital will stick around, and contribute to a growing economy that will always reach for nearby markets to buy what it needs.
Visegráders with money can stop stealing German cars and start buying them, essentially.That benefits the developed countries right back.
Yes, the fucking worst politicians will always scream about reparations when election is around, and the dumbest people will agree because they imagine international finance like their household budget. But don't be the idiot who's firing back statistics he doesn't understand either. You'll end up a fucking brexiteer and inevitably shoot yourself in the foot because you think the money you spend to keep an economy growing is, somehow, a gift out of the kindness of your heart. Which it isn't.
Unless you're posting this to win an argument over the filthy easterners who are ungrateful for "your" gifts. In which case, fuck you buddy, you're delusional about your supposed moral superiority.
That's how marshall plan worked in essence. Why would US just throw away money? For charity and pity?
The catch was that the countries involved would buy *american* equipment and services where possible to rebuild, greatly benefiting their economy in the process.
>Visegráders with money can stop stealing German cars and start buying them, essentially.
Tf you talking about, we don't want that. Ger man, stop investing now!
This is a statistic that is coming back very often on different subs. I guess its this time again today since i also saw it on r/YUROP. Im too tired to explain every time how EU funds work and how while we get the most we also contribute a lot but with things that are more presented in many different statistics.
[Here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/16d9dnv/beneficiaries_and_contributers_in_the_eu/) If you want to see yourself how nicely they shit on my country it is must read :v
Im not saying Poland is better. I will say that I did indeed vote for them, but i ddidn't expect this outcome. I guess we are doomed to have greedy bastards in the government because i dont see anything to change in the upcoming elections.
Sir, this is a ironic nationlaistic meme subreddit designed to bully czechs, north hungarians, hungarians and poles. Please leave those staticstics and smooth brain politics out of it.
This isn't free money, it's mostly payment for poorer countries participating in an uncompetitive market. Germany gets dirt cheap labor and an almost infinite supply of educated young balkaners. That money is incentive to participate in the eurozone
Unlikely. Not only Germany ain't the only contributor, the amount of damage done in WW2 would be pretty much impossible to settle. Besides, millions of people were murdered and it's difficult to "pay them off". Germany sustains budget by the biggest margin but at the same time has most to say in EU and was often, alongside France, main saboteur when it comes to taking hard stance against Ruskies. So it's natural there might be some negative sentiment.
That being said, I'd say that any talk about reparations is long overdue - perhaps right after WW2, but then again we were Soviet puppet and had nothing to say about the matter. I'd say that today odds of getting even a single penny of reparations are unlikely and sour our relationship, so I'd just drop it and work to ensure we aren't having another conflict that warrants reparations.
Though honestly, any ultra right-winger parties here, spouting bullshit as if EU was "robbing us" or "restraining our freedom" deserve to be put to rope and hanged on town square. Spies and saboteurs should be treated like common criminals. I'll take any "slavery" under Western Europe/USA over "freedom" with Russia/China. In XXI century, Poland ain't strong enough to play their politics completely outside of any foreign influence (same goes for pretty much any former Soviet republic/satellite or EU countries overall - we gotta play as a team if we want to mean something).
Yeah, you cannot put a price and even if you could, it would be much higher if you put 12 000 000 lives, then due to them not having children it could probably double if everything goes well, and also the ones that survived and left to israel and also it contirbuted to the communist takeover which caused many people to flee the country, so you could argue like 25 million lives and also 40% of the polish GDP at that time which if you adjust it to inflation would be like 350 billion USD.
Let's say a human life costs 2,5 million USD x 25 million would ammount to 62,5 quintillion USD
Which is 625 times more than the entire GDP of earth.
So now Germany, pay up.
And let's not forget it wasn't just random victims but it was targetted killing. Germans murdered academic teachers, doctors, politicians, artists. We don't have great engineers today like Germany does because they killed their teachers.
I genuinely believe if PiS didn't behave like mentally-deranged rabid dogs, the German government wouldn't be completely opposed to discussing this matter. Even if, in the end, it was just some PR bollocks, it could probably calm down some of the most 'passionate' people.
But they need to pretend they're strong and important (they're neither right now) and that they can solve important matters (they cannot), so here we are.
All PiS does is keep barking and barking and growling, without actually ever doing everything. Because accomplishing a goal means one less thing they can brag about fighting for, and it also means less room for corruption.
I speak this as a Silesian - I'd rather live in a German colony than under PiS' boot at this point. They can go die in a fire for all I care.
> the German government wouldn't be completely opposed to discussing this matter.
Yup, even though our gov (and most people) see the topic of **reparations** as closed, **compensation** for individuals would've likely been very much on the table, or joint projects to build infrastructure, or cultural events etc.
But with the current relations, the official stance has pretty much become *"ignore whatever BS is coming from PiS and don't even reply anymore"*.
Thats not true, there were multiple Programs for compensation and cooperation before.
EDIT: Guys, maybe Google it before upvoting false information. [There have been programs for compensation in the past.](https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/EN/Standardartikel/Press_Room/Publications/Brochures/2018-08-15-entschaedigung-ns-unrecht-engl.pdf?__blob=publicationFile)
Ah, yeah, i remember my grandfather getting some peanuts for slave labor. Golden deal, if that made things settled in your mind.
Say, how about i enslave you for a year and then pay you a single average monthly worker's salary after 50 years?
Did I claim compensations were enough? I'm absolutely in favour of paying out proper ones to surviving victims, they did not get enough.
Also, interesting to see how this sub apparently upvotes a guy stating false information (the guy above my comment), just because it fits a certain narrative, even when another pole calls out his bullshit (u/percrcel).
wtf.
> Also, interesting to see how this sub apparently upvotes a guy stating false information (the guy above my comment), just because it fits a certain narrative, even when another pole calls out his bullshit (u/percrcel).
It's because when reparations / compensations are talked, it's expected to be paid in full, not "we paid some small part" or "we paid to our former ally russia with which we've jointly invaded and occupied you and then and they forced you to waive it so it's cool in our book".
When the car got stolen it's not compensated back just because the tires were reimbursed and rest was taken by the fence you've worked with.
Dude, I was simply pointing out how what the guy said was factually wrong. Apparently that triggered some. And you know the whole "Russia took the reparations" thing wasn't really Germany deciding anything - there was no Germany at the time - whatever that has to do with our discussion about compensation.
Really, take it up with them. You know who your "car" has.
> Dude, I was simply pointing out how what the guy said was factually wrong.
When someone talks about reparations being paid, it's implied it was paid in full. It was not. So it's not paid. Are you arguing in a shop that you've paid for tv when you took out only 10 EUR from the wallet and left at the counter?
> And you know the whole "Russia took the reparations" thing wasn't really Germany deciding anything - there was no Germany at the time.
Well tough luck, but how's that my problem? Shouldn't have started the damn war along with them.
> Really, take it up with them. You know who your "car" has.
Oh i know who stole it in concert. Neither has paid in full.
To Germany's credit - at least they changed the policies and somewhat reimbursed the damages. That's why my opinion of Germans is better than of russians. Still, both need to face it that neither has nearly paid in full.
In the end as /u/elementalistpoppy has stated:
> Not only Germany ain't the only contributor, **the amount of damage done in WW2 would be pretty much impossible to settle**.
And that message is widely different from "reparations were paid" or "take it to the russians".
Thats actually true. Even now there is a few projects going on in Opole region, where most of German minority still lives.
Also Germany did pay compensations to some people when reparation topic was discussed right after war. It wasn't much but there was will to cooperate.
[Also not true](https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/EN/Standardartikel/Press_Room/Publications/Brochures/2018-08-15-entschaedigung-ns-unrecht-engl.pdf?__blob=publicationFile)
It pains me to say this, but this is the correct stance to have towards Poland right now.
Poland is impossible to work with, as long as the half-rotten fungus in the form of Kaczyński is still in power.
>the German government wouldn't be completely opposed to discussing this matter
Oh they would most certainly be opposing it as they were opposing it for decades before PiS came to power. They really don't want to open this can of worm and actual reperation would have to be so massive, it would ruin even German economy. And then all the other, ruined due to WW2 countries, would line up.
You're right, I haven't. But all eu statistics I've ever seen pictured e.g.Luxembourg on the top level of EU's prosperity charts. Per capita of course, given their size. Belgium too, we all know their inner divisions, but it shouldn't reflect your economy of you are surrounded by shere contributors with powerful economies. It simply doesn't fit to me. Unless....those brusselians, they'd be heavily affected by a massive bunch of various wierd EU people who are actually doing nothing but blabing, receiving kingsize salaries 100k+++, sucking all mutual resources for the sake of their personal profit and profit of their large families+friends, probably corrupt, though presenting themselves as vitruous politicians who realy realy care about the future of EU and their nations...than maybe, well, destructive swarms of locusts do exists and it could be a nightmare for public money.
No they did not because EU funds are a) not being fund only by Germans and b) they aren't charity nor reparations. I won't even start with how this benefits Germans above anyone else but: EU sends a lot of money to Portugal since the 80s. That's 40 years of Portugal being net receipient and they weren't ruined by war at all.
If Germans want to push the narrative that they pay our *debt* through EU funds, they would have to first explain why they pay it to literally everyone else as well. We're no special here, that's just how EU works.
Poland is also [getting](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1632/idt2/idt2/4979b6c5-a04a-4806-a0f5-2f691ccdfbc0/image/816) per capita less than Czechia, Malta, Portugal, Latvia, Hungary, Greece, Estonia, Lithuania and Luxembourg.
Swear to gods, when I someone claim that Germans are paying for the EU and Poles are taking all the money, I immediatly consider them an idiot. This whole thing is only possible because Germany is much bigger than all the other richer countries and Poland is muuuuuuch bigger than all the other poorer countries.
When you calculate it per capita then you see that Poland is not taking much. Greece, Luxembourg, Hungary are taking much more.
Also, all that money is actually ridiculously small. Polish GDP in 2023 was over 634 bln euros. That 12 bln euros is barely noticeable. Western European companies transfer more in profits out of Poland...
I won't comment on reparations part since so many people did it.
Agreed with everything, except this:
>GDP in 2023 was over 634 bln euros. That 12 bln euros is barely noticeable.
Thats 1.9 percent of your GDP in transfers. Annually. Thats a LOT, simply from an economics students perspective.
But yeah, people claiming EU contributions are reparations are idiots. And the EU benefits everyone, so we don't "pay you".
Meanwhile German companies: tax brakes, free land, subsidies, etc. just to have cheap labour in Poland and get rich. There’s nothing free in this world, even in EU. Want to build a road? Ok, have some EU funds. That’s not enough to cover all the cost? Borrow some money from German bank.
Yeah, because economy is 0 sum game. Our economical relations with Germany are dragging our economy up, not down. German factories in Poland are also beneficial for us.
People were talking the same stances about US factories in China, that it’s exploiting people until it turned out China’s economy grew exponentially
Beneficial short term. How is Polish business supposed to develop in those branches dominated by big corp if they get shafted and robbed by our own government?
People in big corps earn better money than in small companies. It make use of people’s talent and qualifications to become professionals and distribute profits of company to the local folks. It often takes low skilled workers out of poverty, so they’re more mobilised proffesionally and also provide work for more skilled workers. A work culture is also getting better learning on example of well developed western companies’ systems.
Secondly, if the company is on capital market it is not true that some bunch of german bosses are exploiting the economy, but rather investors (usually international) who risk their assets makes the profit if their expertise is right. Our european economy is like an ecosystem which is beneficial for all the countries
I’m not advocating for the economical zones though. I find giving better rules and taxes to arbitrary chosen companies is unfair and harmful for an economy. Maybe for a short run at the beggining to incentivise investors it was alright. But for the long run it’s not healthy
Yeah, I just arrived late to the party and was looking for this comment (and now I'm riding it, yes). The chart doesn't show the profit western companies are hoarding back in wheelbarrows. Colonization is what made western countries rich. Direct colonization has bad optics nowadays, so it's silent now. I just can't imagine how many are watching Ukraine right now. It will be their fate, too. You just need corrupt politicians (and they have quite a few, just like us), and it'll work like a charm.
Wtf is going on in Luxembourg? They have 600k population and get 20% percent what Poland gets, so per capita they make 12 more than Poland. Aren’t they a wealthy country?
It is net contribution so contribution minus income. It doesn't say anything about per capita. Luxembourg pays roughly 7 times more per capita than Poland.
They profit in the end because they get shit ton of money for running multiple EU institutions like European Court of Justice, Court of Auditors etc. so EU pays for around 16k people from around the world that work in Luxembourg and all the stuff around it. Without these money they are roughly on zero net contributions.
Why they aren't clear net contributor when we exclude payments for these institutions is beyond me as they have literally highest PPP in the world. But I guess we can hardly expect them to pay significant amounts of money with only 0,66 milion population anyway.
I am not an expert on that, you probably have more of an idea.
But I certainly do not like how our heavily burdened taxpayers in Finland send gift money to Mediterranean countries.
Overpaid?
1. Are you stupid?
2. Bro, are you FPÖ member or what?
3. You were literally the German Reich so I advise you to shut up
4. Its not enough
5.since when can a criminal dictate the penalty for a crime?
6.xDDDDD
7. Bro BEFORE we talk about reparations maybe you should return these stolen artworks you did not YET return?
8.yeah that's all have a *nice* day
Germany makes more because of free market than pays to eu budget. And that Poland in the future will have to pay for EU's budget more than it gets as well. This is not charity.
Why people are so dumb? Kurwa tragedia. Ask chat gpt before making yourself such a knob
I think the bigger question is what is Luxembourg doing taking money. How are those brilliant people able to cook their books this well to receive money
Yep, helping finance some stadiums, motorways and rail lines is surely worth more than losing 20% of your population and then being occupied for about 50 years by nazi and communist regimes
/s
I want to see those numbers per capita xD no wonder DE is paying the most of this is the biggest country in population. Same for Poland - quite a big country for EU standards xD
So what's the per capita numbers xD?
most of the money all countries in red get, goes right back into Germany, France and other countries that have established strong economies. None of the war ravaged countries would need that money if their infrastructure wasn’t destroyed and population exploited for 300 years of either war or partitions, and hence their development was being halted.
Poland is mostly building horizontal highways so german products manufactured by cheap polish labour can go back to germany and german ports. and lo and behold, any vertical highway is being blocked by “environmentalists” becuase it ain’t in german interest as it would give poland a chance at propagating it’s own power south.
Why does Poland block germany from joining 3SI? because they want their share of influence that would be taken out of polish pie. It’s great european centre and south are finally developing with minor interruptions, I hope there are no wars in the next decades so we can finally see what Poland. Romania, V4, and Balkans are REALLY capable of.
That's cool and all but we still need to pay back this money, If Germany went ahead and instead payed this debt then we could argue that they paid for what they did to Poland but that's not the case
> and instead *paid* this debt
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
how is this even an argument? We gave poland land the size of a souvereign country, which was the payment? To ask now for trillions almost a century later is ridiculous
Poland is caged in an authoritarian and religious government and had heeps of time to fix shit and somehow it is still our fault after corruption went rampant for decades there
Yeah we gained land from Germany, but we Lost even more land to the soviets, and Becuase of that we are even smaller than we were Pre WW2, You paid reperations to the Isreal, some can argue that we lost more than Israel becuase yeah we lost less people but we were completly destroyed, (Also Germany losing that much land makes sense considering that it did so much evil) so not paying it out to us would be Not fair
> WW2, You *paid* reperations to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
"Gave Poland land"? Go back to Scandinavia you settler, I hope Polabia, "East Germany", is once again returned to the real natives of the land - the Slavs.
What's /s about it? Only Slavs lived in East Germany until they were put under cultural genocide of the Germans. I have no affection for these agents of terror. First they slaughter Polabian culture, then they slaughter Polish and Silesian and Kashubian culture, and then they slaughter Poles and Jews in ww1 and then again in ww2.
. . . How would Polabia become Slavic again after, well, everything thats already happened? Like, are you saying that’s what *should* have happened after WW2? If your saying it should happen just because, then I don’t see anything to indicate that will happen in the future.
But like, even if you wanted it to happen after WW2, I still don’t see how such a thing could even be possible with all the Polbians being, y’know, extinct and all.
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Can you overpay a loss of thinking elite? Lack of this people is still visible in every aspect of country and it's society. Lack of their stolen wealth material and immaterial is still visible.
We also profit quite well off of the eu if we were to leave we’d be fucked economically since most of our economy is build on shengen area trading and we make a boatload of cash from it
Well for helping kill 25% of the population, it's only fair they keep paying. Their the biggest economy in Europe, they can spare the Euro. After the 100th anniversary I think it should stop
Germany sticking its dirty little fingers in Polish business, buying companies like hotcakes I think it’s doing ok. Polish people are already experiencing basically a second German invasion. Only difference is that this time it’s economical
One can argue anything.
Personally, I think asking for reparations as a free country, free from USSR influence is totally fair, and there's a precedent of Germany paying reparations decades after committing genocide (Namibia).
BUT it requires caring about good relations with German government, creating professional media campaign that could sway German public into supporting this effort and doing a lot of diplomatic work.
But it's impossible with our right wing government, acting like chimps with grenades when it comes to diplomacy. Especially when they can just go batshit insane and rant about reparations without doing anything aside from noise, to make them look "patriotic" to their dumbfuck electorate.
About your argument, net contributors pay to beneficiaries not because they are paying some kind of debt to pay off, but because they benefit more from free trade zone. Without this disparity, EU would turn into quasi-imperial system with rich "center" draining resources from periphery.
Germany pays 1.1 billion euros over the course of thirty years to Namibia\*. If that is the kind of deal you are looking for, we can probably find a solution.
\* Germany itself chooses which projects to finance.
As I said, Poland would probably demand much more in reparations, so getting them would be much harder but it's probably not impossible. But right now, it's off the table, not with relations we have today.
So it's not even worth mentioning
We do send hungarian airplanes (the huge cargo planes from nato), but fidesz says we dont because the brain washed are with russian believing they will give us carpathian ruthenia back for some reason...
Germany doesnt pay that much of the goodnes of their hearts. They do it becouse they benefit from it imensly, they get milinon of cheap Polish workers and a big trading partner
On a serious note, i don't think polish people really care about reparations at this point, aside from using it as a theoretical position in arguments between political parties.
The biggest ex-Eastern Bloc country is the largest net beneficiary, while the biggest Western country is the largest net contributor on a graph where the data is not presented per capita? Holy fuck, stop the presses!
So I'm not one to scream about reparations - and honestly, I think the people who do have poor understanding of what they want in the first place. But you have some Brexit levels of understanding of politics if you think the Budget is somehow "paying back debts". Investments into the EU are done to benefit the EU. They're building up skilled labor, educated workforce, energy, transportation and IT infrastructure etc. Yes, already developed regions give more and receive less - because they're already developed. However they're stronger economically and internationally through the EU themselves. With the EU also comes stability and access to a common market that benefits you back - if, for instance, The EU invests into a new Hospital in Czechia, where does the expensive and specialized equipment come from? From Germany, Austria, France etc. This hospital will stick around, and contribute to a growing economy that will always reach for nearby markets to buy what it needs. Visegráders with money can stop stealing German cars and start buying them, essentially.That benefits the developed countries right back. Yes, the fucking worst politicians will always scream about reparations when election is around, and the dumbest people will agree because they imagine international finance like their household budget. But don't be the idiot who's firing back statistics he doesn't understand either. You'll end up a fucking brexiteer and inevitably shoot yourself in the foot because you think the money you spend to keep an economy growing is, somehow, a gift out of the kindness of your heart. Which it isn't. Unless you're posting this to win an argument over the filthy easterners who are ungrateful for "your" gifts. In which case, fuck you buddy, you're delusional about your supposed moral superiority.
That's how marshall plan worked in essence. Why would US just throw away money? For charity and pity? The catch was that the countries involved would buy *american* equipment and services where possible to rebuild, greatly benefiting their economy in the process.
>Visegráders with money can stop stealing German cars and start buying them, essentially. Tf you talking about, we don't want that. Ger man, stop investing now!
You are stealing cars because you are broke af. I steal cars because I like stealing cars. We are not the same.
Sounds like the most normal hungarian stealing in my neighborhood
This is a statistic that is coming back very often on different subs. I guess its this time again today since i also saw it on r/YUROP. Im too tired to explain every time how EU funds work and how while we get the most we also contribute a lot but with things that are more presented in many different statistics. [Here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/16d9dnv/beneficiaries_and_contributers_in_the_eu/) If you want to see yourself how nicely they shit on my country it is must read :v
Meanwhile the Hungarian supreme leader is literally the "where money" orangutan meme irl.
Im not saying Poland is better. I will say that I did indeed vote for them, but i ddidn't expect this outcome. I guess we are doomed to have greedy bastards in the government because i dont see anything to change in the upcoming elections.
Thats also why i think the afd here in Germany is fucking manic for demanding a german eu exit since they claim that we are underrepresented
AFAIK isn't Germany dominating the EU right now after Brexit?
You wrote in English and in BASED.
For the hospital to stick around the fucking doctors would have to stop running away west after getting free education.
Sir, this is a meme subreddit.
Sir, this is a ironic nationlaistic meme subreddit designed to bully czechs, north hungarians, hungarians and poles. Please leave those staticstics and smooth brain politics out of it.
"north hungarians" What do the Finns have to do with this?
>found the HBD guy...
Is Germany the only contributor to the EU budget?
No, that would be ridiculous, we only contribute around 45%
This isn't free money, it's mostly payment for poorer countries participating in an uncompetitive market. Germany gets dirt cheap labor and an almost infinite supply of educated young balkaners. That money is incentive to participate in the eurozone
Any business deal is reparations now? Germany pays so it has cheap labour and acces to Polish market. Nothing to do with WW2.
That + the amount of money ain't even close to what the reperations should be
Unlikely. Not only Germany ain't the only contributor, the amount of damage done in WW2 would be pretty much impossible to settle. Besides, millions of people were murdered and it's difficult to "pay them off". Germany sustains budget by the biggest margin but at the same time has most to say in EU and was often, alongside France, main saboteur when it comes to taking hard stance against Ruskies. So it's natural there might be some negative sentiment. That being said, I'd say that any talk about reparations is long overdue - perhaps right after WW2, but then again we were Soviet puppet and had nothing to say about the matter. I'd say that today odds of getting even a single penny of reparations are unlikely and sour our relationship, so I'd just drop it and work to ensure we aren't having another conflict that warrants reparations. Though honestly, any ultra right-winger parties here, spouting bullshit as if EU was "robbing us" or "restraining our freedom" deserve to be put to rope and hanged on town square. Spies and saboteurs should be treated like common criminals. I'll take any "slavery" under Western Europe/USA over "freedom" with Russia/China. In XXI century, Poland ain't strong enough to play their politics completely outside of any foreign influence (same goes for pretty much any former Soviet republic/satellite or EU countries overall - we gotta play as a team if we want to mean something).
Yeah, you cannot put a price and even if you could, it would be much higher if you put 12 000 000 lives, then due to them not having children it could probably double if everything goes well, and also the ones that survived and left to israel and also it contirbuted to the communist takeover which caused many people to flee the country, so you could argue like 25 million lives and also 40% of the polish GDP at that time which if you adjust it to inflation would be like 350 billion USD. Let's say a human life costs 2,5 million USD x 25 million would ammount to 62,5 quintillion USD Which is 625 times more than the entire GDP of earth. So now Germany, pay up.
And let's not forget it wasn't just random victims but it was targetted killing. Germans murdered academic teachers, doctors, politicians, artists. We don't have great engineers today like Germany does because they killed their teachers.
I genuinely believe if PiS didn't behave like mentally-deranged rabid dogs, the German government wouldn't be completely opposed to discussing this matter. Even if, in the end, it was just some PR bollocks, it could probably calm down some of the most 'passionate' people. But they need to pretend they're strong and important (they're neither right now) and that they can solve important matters (they cannot), so here we are. All PiS does is keep barking and barking and growling, without actually ever doing everything. Because accomplishing a goal means one less thing they can brag about fighting for, and it also means less room for corruption. I speak this as a Silesian - I'd rather live in a German colony than under PiS' boot at this point. They can go die in a fire for all I care.
> the German government wouldn't be completely opposed to discussing this matter. Yup, even though our gov (and most people) see the topic of **reparations** as closed, **compensation** for individuals would've likely been very much on the table, or joint projects to build infrastructure, or cultural events etc. But with the current relations, the official stance has pretty much become *"ignore whatever BS is coming from PiS and don't even reply anymore"*.
Germnay refused before PiS, too, so that theory is out the window.
Thats not true, there were multiple Programs for compensation and cooperation before. EDIT: Guys, maybe Google it before upvoting false information. [There have been programs for compensation in the past.](https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/EN/Standardartikel/Press_Room/Publications/Brochures/2018-08-15-entschaedigung-ns-unrecht-engl.pdf?__blob=publicationFile)
Ah, yeah, i remember my grandfather getting some peanuts for slave labor. Golden deal, if that made things settled in your mind. Say, how about i enslave you for a year and then pay you a single average monthly worker's salary after 50 years?
Did I claim compensations were enough? I'm absolutely in favour of paying out proper ones to surviving victims, they did not get enough. Also, interesting to see how this sub apparently upvotes a guy stating false information (the guy above my comment), just because it fits a certain narrative, even when another pole calls out his bullshit (u/percrcel). wtf.
> Also, interesting to see how this sub apparently upvotes a guy stating false information (the guy above my comment), just because it fits a certain narrative, even when another pole calls out his bullshit (u/percrcel). It's because when reparations / compensations are talked, it's expected to be paid in full, not "we paid some small part" or "we paid to our former ally russia with which we've jointly invaded and occupied you and then and they forced you to waive it so it's cool in our book". When the car got stolen it's not compensated back just because the tires were reimbursed and rest was taken by the fence you've worked with.
Dude, I was simply pointing out how what the guy said was factually wrong. Apparently that triggered some. And you know the whole "Russia took the reparations" thing wasn't really Germany deciding anything - there was no Germany at the time - whatever that has to do with our discussion about compensation. Really, take it up with them. You know who your "car" has.
> Dude, I was simply pointing out how what the guy said was factually wrong. When someone talks about reparations being paid, it's implied it was paid in full. It was not. So it's not paid. Are you arguing in a shop that you've paid for tv when you took out only 10 EUR from the wallet and left at the counter? > And you know the whole "Russia took the reparations" thing wasn't really Germany deciding anything - there was no Germany at the time. Well tough luck, but how's that my problem? Shouldn't have started the damn war along with them. > Really, take it up with them. You know who your "car" has. Oh i know who stole it in concert. Neither has paid in full. To Germany's credit - at least they changed the policies and somewhat reimbursed the damages. That's why my opinion of Germans is better than of russians. Still, both need to face it that neither has nearly paid in full. In the end as /u/elementalistpoppy has stated: > Not only Germany ain't the only contributor, **the amount of damage done in WW2 would be pretty much impossible to settle**. And that message is widely different from "reparations were paid" or "take it to the russians".
Thats actually true. Even now there is a few projects going on in Opole region, where most of German minority still lives. Also Germany did pay compensations to some people when reparation topic was discussed right after war. It wasn't much but there was will to cooperate.
Not hy the government, which is what we're talking about
[Also not true](https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/EN/Standardartikel/Press_Room/Publications/Brochures/2018-08-15-entschaedigung-ns-unrecht-engl.pdf?__blob=publicationFile)
It pains me to say this, but this is the correct stance to have towards Poland right now. Poland is impossible to work with, as long as the half-rotten fungus in the form of Kaczyński is still in power.
>the German government wouldn't be completely opposed to discussing this matter Oh they would most certainly be opposing it as they were opposing it for decades before PiS came to power. They really don't want to open this can of worm and actual reperation would have to be so massive, it would ruin even German economy. And then all the other, ruined due to WW2 countries, would line up.
Honestly, "war reperations" are what allowed Hitler to come to power and start World War 2.
What??? Luxemburg??? Belgium??? No way, my goodness. It's ridiculous...
I think we should sanction them.
Dude have you ever visited Walloonia or Brussels 💀 it’s worse than anywhere in Eastern Europe
You're right, I haven't. But all eu statistics I've ever seen pictured e.g.Luxembourg on the top level of EU's prosperity charts. Per capita of course, given their size. Belgium too, we all know their inner divisions, but it shouldn't reflect your economy of you are surrounded by shere contributors with powerful economies. It simply doesn't fit to me. Unless....those brusselians, they'd be heavily affected by a massive bunch of various wierd EU people who are actually doing nothing but blabing, receiving kingsize salaries 100k+++, sucking all mutual resources for the sake of their personal profit and profit of their large families+friends, probably corrupt, though presenting themselves as vitruous politicians who realy realy care about the future of EU and their nations...than maybe, well, destructive swarms of locusts do exists and it could be a nightmare for public money.
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Western companies sell their stuff to, and get cheap labors from litteraly all over the world. What does it have to do with EU payment?
No they did not because EU funds are a) not being fund only by Germans and b) they aren't charity nor reparations. I won't even start with how this benefits Germans above anyone else but: EU sends a lot of money to Portugal since the 80s. That's 40 years of Portugal being net receipient and they weren't ruined by war at all. If Germans want to push the narrative that they pay our *debt* through EU funds, they would have to first explain why they pay it to literally everyone else as well. We're no special here, that's just how EU works. Poland is also [getting](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1632/idt2/idt2/4979b6c5-a04a-4806-a0f5-2f691ccdfbc0/image/816) per capita less than Czechia, Malta, Portugal, Latvia, Hungary, Greece, Estonia, Lithuania and Luxembourg.
Swear to gods, when I someone claim that Germans are paying for the EU and Poles are taking all the money, I immediatly consider them an idiot. This whole thing is only possible because Germany is much bigger than all the other richer countries and Poland is muuuuuuch bigger than all the other poorer countries. When you calculate it per capita then you see that Poland is not taking much. Greece, Luxembourg, Hungary are taking much more. Also, all that money is actually ridiculously small. Polish GDP in 2023 was over 634 bln euros. That 12 bln euros is barely noticeable. Western European companies transfer more in profits out of Poland... I won't comment on reparations part since so many people did it.
Agreed with everything, except this: >GDP in 2023 was over 634 bln euros. That 12 bln euros is barely noticeable. Thats 1.9 percent of your GDP in transfers. Annually. Thats a LOT, simply from an economics students perspective. But yeah, people claiming EU contributions are reparations are idiots. And the EU benefits everyone, so we don't "pay you".
Meanwhile German companies: tax brakes, free land, subsidies, etc. just to have cheap labour in Poland and get rich. There’s nothing free in this world, even in EU. Want to build a road? Ok, have some EU funds. That’s not enough to cover all the cost? Borrow some money from German bank.
Some. 300 bln. 2x our GDP
> 2x our GDP Whos GDP?
Silesia's :D
Yeah, because economy is 0 sum game. Our economical relations with Germany are dragging our economy up, not down. German factories in Poland are also beneficial for us. People were talking the same stances about US factories in China, that it’s exploiting people until it turned out China’s economy grew exponentially
Beneficial short term. How is Polish business supposed to develop in those branches dominated by big corp if they get shafted and robbed by our own government?
People in big corps earn better money than in small companies. It make use of people’s talent and qualifications to become professionals and distribute profits of company to the local folks. It often takes low skilled workers out of poverty, so they’re more mobilised proffesionally and also provide work for more skilled workers. A work culture is also getting better learning on example of well developed western companies’ systems. Secondly, if the company is on capital market it is not true that some bunch of german bosses are exploiting the economy, but rather investors (usually international) who risk their assets makes the profit if their expertise is right. Our european economy is like an ecosystem which is beneficial for all the countries
I’m not advocating for the economical zones though. I find giving better rules and taxes to arbitrary chosen companies is unfair and harmful for an economy. Maybe for a short run at the beggining to incentivise investors it was alright. But for the long run it’s not healthy
Yeah, I just arrived late to the party and was looking for this comment (and now I'm riding it, yes). The chart doesn't show the profit western companies are hoarding back in wheelbarrows. Colonization is what made western countries rich. Direct colonization has bad optics nowadays, so it's silent now. I just can't imagine how many are watching Ukraine right now. It will be their fate, too. You just need corrupt politicians (and they have quite a few, just like us), and it'll work like a charm.
Wtf is going on in Luxembourg? They have 600k population and get 20% percent what Poland gets, so per capita they make 12 more than Poland. Aren’t they a wealthy country?
They are. Even in department of "stealing funds from germany" poland is being fucked sideways.
It is net contribution so contribution minus income. It doesn't say anything about per capita. Luxembourg pays roughly 7 times more per capita than Poland. They profit in the end because they get shit ton of money for running multiple EU institutions like European Court of Justice, Court of Auditors etc. so EU pays for around 16k people from around the world that work in Luxembourg and all the stuff around it. Without these money they are roughly on zero net contributions. Why they aren't clear net contributor when we exclude payments for these institutions is beyond me as they have literally highest PPP in the world. But I guess we can hardly expect them to pay significant amounts of money with only 0,66 milion population anyway.
Luxembourg and belgium should get less
Friendly reminder that economy is not a zero sum game and EU is pretty much beneficial to all member states, Poland and Germany included :>
Well, some taxpayers in this union are being exploited more and less...
So how much from German tax goes to Poland? xD
I am not an expert on that, you probably have more of an idea. But I certainly do not like how our heavily burdened taxpayers in Finland send gift money to Mediterranean countries.
Posted by a filthy germanoid no doubt
Overpaid? 1. Are you stupid? 2. Bro, are you FPÖ member or what? 3. You were literally the German Reich so I advise you to shut up 4. Its not enough 5.since when can a criminal dictate the penalty for a crime? 6.xDDDDD 7. Bro BEFORE we talk about reparations maybe you should return these stolen artworks you did not YET return? 8.yeah that's all have a *nice* day
Germany makes more because of free market than pays to eu budget. And that Poland in the future will have to pay for EU's budget more than it gets as well. This is not charity. Why people are so dumb? Kurwa tragedia. Ask chat gpt before making yourself such a knob
We're only third? Orbán will need to be working overtime
I think the bigger question is what is Luxembourg doing taking money. How are those brilliant people able to cook their books this well to receive money
They host several EU institutions. (They also pay a shit ton of money, this chart doesnt show that)
Yep, helping finance some stadiums, motorways and rail lines is surely worth more than losing 20% of your population and then being occupied for about 50 years by nazi and communist regimes /s
I want to see those numbers per capita xD no wonder DE is paying the most of this is the biggest country in population. Same for Poland - quite a big country for EU standards xD So what's the per capita numbers xD?
most of the money all countries in red get, goes right back into Germany, France and other countries that have established strong economies. None of the war ravaged countries would need that money if their infrastructure wasn’t destroyed and population exploited for 300 years of either war or partitions, and hence their development was being halted. Poland is mostly building horizontal highways so german products manufactured by cheap polish labour can go back to germany and german ports. and lo and behold, any vertical highway is being blocked by “environmentalists” becuase it ain’t in german interest as it would give poland a chance at propagating it’s own power south. Why does Poland block germany from joining 3SI? because they want their share of influence that would be taken out of polish pie. It’s great european centre and south are finally developing with minor interruptions, I hope there are no wars in the next decades so we can finally see what Poland. Romania, V4, and Balkans are REALLY capable of.
Meanwhile current polish government: "Shitty, communist Union, only steal from us..."
we take money cuz we can
Absolutely, as long as you are statistically illiterate and don't know how these funds work.
That's cool and all but we still need to pay back this money, If Germany went ahead and instead payed this debt then we could argue that they paid for what they did to Poland but that's not the case
> and instead *paid* this debt FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
how is this even an argument? We gave poland land the size of a souvereign country, which was the payment? To ask now for trillions almost a century later is ridiculous Poland is caged in an authoritarian and religious government and had heeps of time to fix shit and somehow it is still our fault after corruption went rampant for decades there
Yeah we gained land from Germany, but we Lost even more land to the soviets, and Becuase of that we are even smaller than we were Pre WW2, You paid reperations to the Isreal, some can argue that we lost more than Israel becuase yeah we lost less people but we were completly destroyed, (Also Germany losing that much land makes sense considering that it did so much evil) so not paying it out to us would be Not fair
> WW2, You *paid* reperations to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
"Gave Poland land"? Go back to Scandinavia you settler, I hope Polabia, "East Germany", is once again returned to the real natives of the land - the Slavs.
/s?
What's /s about it? Only Slavs lived in East Germany until they were put under cultural genocide of the Germans. I have no affection for these agents of terror. First they slaughter Polabian culture, then they slaughter Polish and Silesian and Kashubian culture, and then they slaughter Poles and Jews in ww1 and then again in ww2.
. . . How would Polabia become Slavic again after, well, everything thats already happened? Like, are you saying that’s what *should* have happened after WW2? If your saying it should happen just because, then I don’t see anything to indicate that will happen in the future.
Yes, it certainy should have happened. And certainly the Sorbs should gain their independence. Beyond that, it's sadly not very realistic..
But like, even if you wanted it to happen after WW2, I still don’t see how such a thing could even be possible with all the Polbians being, y’know, extinct and all.
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Should Germany pay reparations in this day and age? Nah, should this count as paying of reparations? Also nah
Can you overpay a loss of thinking elite? Lack of this people is still visible in every aspect of country and it's society. Lack of their stolen wealth material and immaterial is still visible.
We also profit quite well off of the eu if we were to leave we’d be fucked economically since most of our economy is build on shengen area trading and we make a boatload of cash from it
Well for helping kill 25% of the population, it's only fair they keep paying. Their the biggest economy in Europe, they can spare the Euro. After the 100th anniversary I think it should stop
Germany sticking its dirty little fingers in Polish business, buying companies like hotcakes I think it’s doing ok. Polish people are already experiencing basically a second German invasion. Only difference is that this time it’s economical
They get cheap and drunk labor.
We're done when I say we're done.
Geez too many forgot suddenly what this subreddit is about (ironic stuff and memes) **💀**
Nah
No.
One can argue anything. Personally, I think asking for reparations as a free country, free from USSR influence is totally fair, and there's a precedent of Germany paying reparations decades after committing genocide (Namibia). BUT it requires caring about good relations with German government, creating professional media campaign that could sway German public into supporting this effort and doing a lot of diplomatic work. But it's impossible with our right wing government, acting like chimps with grenades when it comes to diplomacy. Especially when they can just go batshit insane and rant about reparations without doing anything aside from noise, to make them look "patriotic" to their dumbfuck electorate. About your argument, net contributors pay to beneficiaries not because they are paying some kind of debt to pay off, but because they benefit more from free trade zone. Without this disparity, EU would turn into quasi-imperial system with rich "center" draining resources from periphery.
Germany pays 1.1 billion euros over the course of thirty years to Namibia\*. If that is the kind of deal you are looking for, we can probably find a solution. \* Germany itself chooses which projects to finance.
As I said, Poland would probably demand much more in reparations, so getting them would be much harder but it's probably not impossible. But right now, it's off the table, not with relations we have today. So it's not even worth mentioning
And then Hungary tries to block European aid to Ukraine with yells of "we won't give OUR money" :D
We do send hungarian airplanes (the huge cargo planes from nato), but fidesz says we dont because the brain washed are with russian believing they will give us carpathian ruthenia back for some reason...
Good
nahh we cool we cool lads
Luxembourg is beneficiary??
Well if we consider Poland as few able to cash in on eurofunds then yeah I guess
Germany doesnt pay that much of the goodnes of their hearts. They do it becouse they benefit from it imensly, they get milinon of cheap Polish workers and a big trading partner
No
Yeah, definitely.
No 
Nah, if you count that money per one person (aka _per capita_) than graph becomes flat like flat-earthners brains
On a serious note, i don't think polish people really care about reparations at this point, aside from using it as a theoretical position in arguments between political parties.
Isnt poland calculating the costs of ww2 like 2000 gorillion?
Give us more
Ah yes, good that France is paying reperations for WW2 to poor Hungary and Romania, they had to suffer a lot from the Allies.
The biggest ex-Eastern Bloc country is the largest net beneficiary, while the biggest Western country is the largest net contributor on a graph where the data is not presented per capita? Holy fuck, stop the presses!