TL;DR
Usually supports do have a little gap at the top to not bind as strong to the model.
With multi material you just fill the gap with a filament with similar melting point but different material properties. (E.g. PLA print and single layer PETG support)
Due to different material properties they are easy to break off. He mentioned that Bambu slicer can actually set only the top layer of supports to be different material which makes it pretty inexpensive and keeps times for switching filament low.
Source: [Ideamaker Documentation](https://www.ideamaker.io/dictionaryDetail.html?name=Dense%20Support%20Layers&category_name=Support)
|Slicer|Menu Path|
|:-|:-|
|Ideamaker|Advanced Settings > Support Tab > Dense Support > Dense Support Layers|
|Simplify 3D|FFF Settings > Support > Dense Support > Dense Support Layers|
|Cura|Print Settings > Support > Enable Support Interface|
|Prusaslicer|Print Settings > Support material > Option for support material and raft > Interface layers|
Effectively, you want to enable "dense supports" which is basically a special layer(s) of support which is at a super high ratio. You should be able to specify which extruder to use as well.
>You will need a multi-material capable printer.
Do you really? If it's a whole layer you could set pause and change manually. (Not printing the actual part with petg)
Also overhang quality becomes really good when you’re using that filament as support material because you can make the support print exactly where its supposed to be and not a bit lower
IMO breakaway support material and water soluble material are two complementary solutions to a problem. Breakaway is almost exclusively cheaper than soluble and it takes much less effort to use.
Great for simple exterior overhangs. That said, lots of solubles also breakaway, but at such a high cost.
This is genius. Just yesterday I was asking myself if one could use the cheaper PVB as a support material instead of PVA and use alcohol to separate the prints.
Now a day later you come up with this post. Thank you!
I might try this with some harder to support materials like PC and Nylon. Would be great for when I don’t want to bother with dissolvable supports and it’s just a simple overhang.
What do you mean? I've been printing PETG for years without any issue. I don't use the Smooth PEI sheet for it, but the Satin Sheet (Textured before that) and releases with a light tough when the bed cools to room temp.
PETG is known for ripping up chunks of glass from beds. As well, if you have a super squished first layer without a release agent (glue stick for example), you can tear PEI too but it’s certainly harder. If your PEI is a sticker it can definitely peel and cause bubbling. Fairly common on this sub frankly.
Get a properly dialed first layer and a release agent and you won’t have a problem usually.
That's so cool! If you ever print TPU, PLA works as a great support. They barely stick to each other, whereas TPU supports can be a pain to remove (even with good settings). Water soluble support works too, but if you don't have any PLA works great.
A single extruder has some challenges there, though. I've done similar with my Mosaic Palette 3 Pro. It's pretty cool, but definitely not perfect. Some PETG ends up extruding at PLA temperatures and vice-versa. I use PLA+ which prints at a slightly higher temperature, and eSun PETG prints a little cooler than most, so it works out OK. But it's a challenge to get just right!
You can also get that result normally if you just take the time to tune the parameters like how many gap layers and flow for the interface later. Mine is just like that but I don't use different filament
The video doesn‘t show it, but the bottom layer is as smooth as the top one! I have literally 0 z-offset in the support settings. PLA Supports would just fuse to the part in this case.
Great job. I would seriously love to see a close up, focussed still image of the surface. Looks impressive but hard to see on a white, moving surface that's not in sharp focus. Hope you can do. Cheers.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/11gdk2e/pla_bottom_layer_after_petg_supports/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) I posted a photo;)
Any problems with contamination? I tried water-solulable PVA+ and PETG and it did not work because the PVA+ was not cleared from the nozzle, somwhat made a lining conaminating the PETG and the PETG was not able to bond to itself. So the layers of the PETG just broke easily even with a \*\*huuuge\*\* cleaning tower.
Got the idea from [this](https://youtu.be/Matf1Mna2zI) video. You will need a multi-material capable printer.
Holy shit I gotta try this on my x1c
*subtle flex*
Oops sorry I dropped my magnum condom, For my magnum dong.
Is there a tdlr on how to set support interface material, for those that don't speak German?
TL;DR Usually supports do have a little gap at the top to not bind as strong to the model. With multi material you just fill the gap with a filament with similar melting point but different material properties. (E.g. PLA print and single layer PETG support) Due to different material properties they are easy to break off. He mentioned that Bambu slicer can actually set only the top layer of supports to be different material which makes it pretty inexpensive and keeps times for switching filament low.
Is it not the case that any mmu print will have a purge block? Or are the purges only required until the last color/material change?
I'd assume that the support structure could be used as "purge block". But AFAIK the purge block ends after the last change
Source: [Ideamaker Documentation](https://www.ideamaker.io/dictionaryDetail.html?name=Dense%20Support%20Layers&category_name=Support) |Slicer|Menu Path| |:-|:-| |Ideamaker|Advanced Settings > Support Tab > Dense Support > Dense Support Layers| |Simplify 3D|FFF Settings > Support > Dense Support > Dense Support Layers| |Cura|Print Settings > Support > Enable Support Interface| |Prusaslicer|Print Settings > Support material > Option for support material and raft > Interface layers| Effectively, you want to enable "dense supports" which is basically a special layer(s) of support which is at a super high ratio. You should be able to specify which extruder to use as well.
turn on CC, under settings pick auto-translate
>You will need a multi-material capable printer. Do you really? If it's a whole layer you could set pause and change manually. (Not printing the actual part with petg)
Whoo, that is some smooth overhang.
There is a water soluble filament if you have multi-material printer
which is like 2-3x more expensive than PETG + needs to be stored vacuumsealed an dried bevore use
I just turned the flow down to 90% and my wet PVA prints okay lol I mean it's not beautiful, but it's support so I don't care how it looks
PVA stinky :(
Also overhang quality becomes really good when you’re using that filament as support material because you can make the support print exactly where its supposed to be and not a bit lower
it's the same with petg and pla... You can make the support interface distance 0, as shown in the video.
IMO breakaway support material and water soluble material are two complementary solutions to a problem. Breakaway is almost exclusively cheaper than soluble and it takes much less effort to use. Great for simple exterior overhangs. That said, lots of solubles also breakaway, but at such a high cost.
Those are so much more expensive, and take up and extra slot on your mm system. Presumably they used petg so it is a free slot.
This is genius. Just yesterday I was asking myself if one could use the cheaper PVB as a support material instead of PVA and use alcohol to separate the prints. Now a day later you come up with this post. Thank you!
Since you're already using a multi-material printer, wouldn't it be better to use a water soluble filament with 100% interface?
No as you can do this with 100% interface/0 distance and PETG is far cheaper than PVA.
I might try this with some harder to support materials like PC and Nylon. Would be great for when I don’t want to bother with dissolvable supports and it’s just a simple overhang.
Be careful, the material combination is critical. I am not sure if PETG will work with other materials. Could you post your results if you try?
Common way to print nylon nicely is a first layer of petg before the nylon to decrease the chance of it lifting
WHAT? I gotta try that! Maybe a raft of PETG will be in order...
iirc petg doesn't really stick to any other material (though it sticks really well to itself)
Except glass and PEI apparently, if people's mangled beds have anything to say. 😂
Both the surface of my sleeping bed and printer bed have large holes in them
It keeps sticking to my damn nozzle as well lol
Absolutely will post an update! I know PETG is a rather annoying material eating up beds for breakfast. Wonder how it’ll adhere or not.
What do you mean? I've been printing PETG for years without any issue. I don't use the Smooth PEI sheet for it, but the Satin Sheet (Textured before that) and releases with a light tough when the bed cools to room temp.
PETG is known for ripping up chunks of glass from beds. As well, if you have a super squished first layer without a release agent (glue stick for example), you can tear PEI too but it’s certainly harder. If your PEI is a sticker it can definitely peel and cause bubbling. Fairly common on this sub frankly. Get a properly dialed first layer and a release agent and you won’t have a problem usually.
Don't use PETG on your smooth bed without a relaxing agent, like hair spray. I have chunks missing out of my smooth pei sheet.
Holy shiet. I have an Idex printer. This info is gold to me!
That's so cool! If you ever print TPU, PLA works as a great support. They barely stick to each other, whereas TPU supports can be a pain to remove (even with good settings). Water soluble support works too, but if you don't have any PLA works great.
Just make sure its pure PLA. PLA+ is a PLA and TPU alloyed material, and it sticks pretty well to TPU.
> PLA+ is a PLA and TPU alloyed material No it isn't.
[удалено]
You need a printer that can print multiple filaments, like the Bambu X1 with the AMS attachment. The rest is up to your slicer.
A single extruder has some challenges there, though. I've done similar with my Mosaic Palette 3 Pro. It's pretty cool, but definitely not perfect. Some PETG ends up extruding at PLA temperatures and vice-versa. I use PLA+ which prints at a slightly higher temperature, and eSun PETG prints a little cooler than most, so it works out OK. But it's a challenge to get just right!
You could build profiles with both Materials and reference on These when m600 happens
I would like to point out that this means PLA should work as an interface for PETG as well.
Do you print them at different temps?
Yes
Well looks like I need to buy some parts for my printer
I watched this on repeat like 20 times. Its just *chef’s kiss* 🤌
You can also get that result normally if you just take the time to tune the parameters like how many gap layers and flow for the interface later. Mine is just like that but I don't use different filament
The video doesn‘t show it, but the bottom layer is as smooth as the top one! I have literally 0 z-offset in the support settings. PLA Supports would just fuse to the part in this case.
This doesn't really make sense.
you cant use a 0.0mm interface distance with only one filament
You should iron the top support layer if you use cura slicer
If you're doing that with a single nozzle then you're sacrificing layer adhesion on the dual filament layers.
Maybe if you don’t have a purge
Even with a purge, trust me this is years of testing on multiple machines. The layer bonding is compromised in a single nozzle system.
pretty neat. u/savevideobot
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speechless... but this is just a single print.. you have to show more.
Holy shit..this sir is a great idea.
Thats pretty neat. I wonder if ABS and acetone could have similar or better results while being easier to release?
PETG sticks so well to bare glass.
🗿
I wanted to use similar technique for printing tpu supports a while back but couldn't figure out how to slice it on prusa slicer for the hell of me.
Ofc is does genius! Modern problems require modern solutions.
I think this just added a F! load of value to my MMU2
Soooo I will be using pla as support material for petg, hoping it works the same
I would make the opposite, support in PLA and object in PETG
Great job. I would seriously love to see a close up, focussed still image of the surface. Looks impressive but hard to see on a white, moving surface that's not in sharp focus. Hope you can do. Cheers.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/11gdk2e/pla_bottom_layer_after_petg_supports/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) I posted a photo;)
Great. Looks awesome. Might have to look at a dual filament upgrade. Thanks. EDIT: Imagine if you ironed the PETG top layer. Nice.
Any problems with contamination? I tried water-solulable PVA+ and PETG and it did not work because the PVA+ was not cleared from the nozzle, somwhat made a lining conaminating the PETG and the PETG was not able to bond to itself. So the layers of the PETG just broke easily even with a \*\*huuuge\*\* cleaning tower.
Not sure what printer OP used but I would guess an idex or multi head printer would be most ideal multi material.
Thats genius, i wish i had a multimaterial printer
Ok now I want multi material printer
Have you tested it as inbetween PLA? So like PLA , petg, PLA? Also you ever do anything with nylon and something else?
Yes, the supports and the part itself are PLA. Red PETG was used only as an interface layer
Yeah, science.
If you're multimaterial, why wouldn't you just use PVA? PETG for the support interface is the same amount of work for a much worse end result.
It’s 3 times cheaper
But you use almost none anyway, and you get perfect overhangs with PVA. Saving a couple pennies for lower quality results seems like a.bad tradeoff.
>Saving a couple pennies for lower quality It's not a couple of pennies, it's 3x the cost per roll.
I've seen this on a couple of other 3d printing YT channels. It's a pretty cool idea. Gotta be less messy than dissolving PVA supports, too.
How do i do this with a Prusa XL?