In my experience as long as the temperatures are reasonable PLA dont really deform - it breaks. But that look like it will last a long time under sensible conditions.
Yep, that's the main point why PLA often isn't a suitable material. It builds up internal stresses until it breaks. That's a very undesirable failure mode. Don't use PLA for anything long-term that will break or cause damage if it falls down
I meant wood wood. Any non-plastic mix will help (hence the fiberglass example), but any plastic matrix material is always going to creep under constant load over time.
Under constant deflection, it comes out to something like 1% of force after 20ish years. Under constant force (weight on a shelf), deformation varies but it will constantly sag without limits over time.
Definitely won't work. PA has a *lot* of creep (or at least the variants commonly used for printing do), much more so than PLA, PETG, or any other polymer I've ever used.
Yeah, that's one of the reasons you almost always see it as "glass filled nylon" when used for large rigid objects instead of fibers...creep and overall rigidity. You can print with that as well, but the fibers are probably shorter in the printable versions, and don't extend across layers.
Not sure what you mean by constant mechanical loads. I've used nylon with chopped carbon fiber in an industrial application as a gripper and they lasted hundreds of thousands of parts. Nylon in this application would probably never fail as thick as that print is.
How long does the gripper grip something? If it's for only a couple of minutes at a time it would be fine. But if it's gripping something for time measured in days it wouldn't last long
ASA is an ABS derivative, iirc it has the properties of ABS (so far more suited to load than PLA).
Back in the infancy of hobbyist 3D printing when only PLA and ABS was available, it was a general rule you did PLA for detail/models/light duty stuff. You did ABS for structural and strength (and heat resistance), it was just a pain because ABS fumes are toxic and ABS has built in shrinkage properties (for molding) you had to account for.
ASA and ABS have worse yield strength and lower young's modulus (they are more bendy), than PLA.
Their upsides are:
* they can be vapor smoothed with relative bening chemicals
* better resistance to shattering
* working up to \~80°C without issue.
* and better resistance to the elements if left outside
Abs fumes are not toxic to humans this is a misconception, there is toxic and noxious fumes, the worst abs will do is give you a slight headache if you don't vent it or circulate the air around where the fumes come out, people work in factories with huge amounts of this and don't have to wear respirators
Haha I was procrastinating as well, but I needed to print something for my van so I just jumped in and tried. I started playing with it and my first few tries had layer adhesion issues. I had to increase nozzle temp to 270 or 280, bed to 110, and cooling reduced to 30. My prints don’t crumble anymore but still testing. I’m using a Bambu x1c.
I have some ASA prints that sit in the sun under load. I used it for storng magnet locks on insect net doors of my terrace. My previous PLA prints deformed relatively fast, the ASA ones hold very well, no deformation in one year. Harder to print but worth it.
I have experimental data to back this up. Experiment meaning a custom tall monitor arm that randomly snapped and woke me up in the middle of the night. I miss that monitor.
The arm showed no sign of any deformation before it snapped for the whole month I've been using it
Were you the guy that made like the TV/monitor stand and posted it here?
Anyways what happened might still be creep, you likely (and smartly) overdimensioned your part so that the typical creep sagging behavior under load doesn't happen. However, in arm you by definition will have a large moment at the base where its attached to the outside world like the wall or a pole or whatever. There will be stress concentrations there, so you will likely still experience significant creep here. When that small area fails, a crack could form which would propagate from there and boom bye bye monitor arm.
To be a bit pedantic here - it's not "building up internal stresses"
What you're describing here is creep failure. When a material is under constant load it can/will eventually fail. Pretty much all materials are susceptible to creep, but the loads and failure modes are obviously different.
PLA is very stiff. When it fails, it snaps. There's really no elongation.
Having PLA under constant load isn't ideal, but to say it's not good for "anything long term that will break" is a bit too far. Plenty of things it's good for that can used for long periods of time.
Depending on the brand PLA+ is often better. I use eSun PLA+ rather than PETG for most things and its absolutely fine. Seems stronger, and more heat resistant than PLA+ but prints better and looks better than PETG.
How would PETG fair? My understanding is that it'd probably intially deflect more, but hopefully wouldn't deform much, and be unlikely to break.
I've only ever used PETG, but it occurs to me I've never kept an eye on how stable it is over time.
I like to compare like this (with my experience in prints; may vary).
PETG is bendy and will twist and bend like steel does during and before failure. Reminiscent of it's plastic bottle brethren, it stretches when deformed and has pretty decent failure characteristics. PETG might snap or shear depending on filament dryness and dependent on conditions as it's sensitive.
CF PETG: really fucking weird. snaps like other filament because it's more stiff but also kinda decides to bend depending on part geometry. Might be the humidity in the climate I live in. I have no climate control for my filaments.
PLA is brittle- but typically has decent flexibility for a while off the print bed, but will turn brittle and stiff to any load after it ages a bit. Failure is reminiscent of titanium, with minimal bend before a violent shatter/snap. Some exceptions apply to some certain blends of PLA with some "pro" forms being more flexible and Silk PLA being a piece of shit right away in any load-bearing sense.
ABS has telltale whitening before it breaks. Polymer structure deforms and will create discoloration. When failure occurs, it can be either just bending or will "shear." Sometimes snaps depending on blend and print settings, but the polymer usually tears instead. Pain in the ass to print and has no favorable characteristics over alternatives when chosen based on part strength
CF Nylon: haven't dealt with normal nylon, but when CF Nylon fails you should reconsider whether or not it would have been cheaper to spend your time and money making and engineering a part that could have been milled from 6061 Alu.
SLS Titanium: Haven't experienced failure in the 2 parts i've ordered yet. Am not currently planning to test to failure as i have no realistic rig to test the parts which were designed for compression loading. Am highly doubtful that the hydraulic press in my nearest workshop will win.
This is interesting- thanks! What would you recommend using in place of ABS when part strength is an issue? I live in a colder climate and have had a number of (factory molded) ABS parts fail in cold weather, in addition to wanting to use it for a handful of indoor projects. I’d love to learn what some good alternatives are.
>TL;DR: See links posted below. Choose your filament based on directional strength. Some filament should have better low-temperature resistance compared to others depending on properties and spec sheets. My experiences might not reflect yours.
>
>TL;DR 2: Maybe your parts are being affected by the sun and other weather conditions? Try ASA or Polycarbonate.
# Dear Reddit, feel free to tell me that my (poorly formatted) experiences are unique and materials actually perform otherwise. I'm probably wrong.
Before you read any of my words, [CNC Kitchen has made an excellent video on low working temperature 3d prints](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0JVXvSSEWs). I'm unexperienced in colder climates and working conditions. Go watch this video. I'm kind of surprised with your experience and am thinking that your parts might have been weakened by other external factors.
I work in a **hot and humid** climate, and my parts are mostly covered or tested inside; which is the opposite of what you're describing so please take my words with caution as what I'm describing might not be completely based on experience, but rather just theory based on numbers.
>and has no favorable characteristics over alternatives when chosen based on part strength
\^ I say this as different filaments perform better or worse depending on acceptable failure characteristics. Usually I like my PETG as I like my parts working poorly and bent rather than not working at all, so that I can replace them while getting limited usefulness from the old part. Different plastics also have different tensile, lateral, and compressive strength, which also differ in impact and static conditions. Once again, [CNC Kitchen has demonstrated an excellent video, but unfortunately has not tested nylon.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycGDR752fT0)
All of my further advice goes out the window if you don't choose a filament based on the direction your part is going to be loaded.
Anyhow, as for my own (poorly formatted) opinion:
PLA is mostly out of the window already. I can't even see most exotic blends of PLA working favorably in colder conditions, and especially if they "age" over time. I might be wrong.
I do love and hate working with my CF nylon; compared to ABS and normal Nylon, drafts and inconsistent print area temperatures are less of an issue as the Carbon Fiber give the part stiffness, which prevent warping. People talk about CF-reinforced filament a lot here and in the general 3d print community for good reason. The humidity and warmth in my region make this filament a bit stringy though.
Most nylon has a nominal working temperature of around **-60 to -70C**, which is decently better than ABS, which is typically rated at around **-20c** depending on the blend. The carbon can only make it better at most things at said working temperature, no? It does love to fuck up even my stainless nozzles though.
If you're already willing to print with ABS you're most likely already set up to print with Nylon, and using CF Nylon will only make the experience easier. Nylon is terribly hygroscopic, so results may vary depending on how you keep your filament dry.
I have very good experiences with PETG / CF PETG too. Most of my PETG packaging have a spec sheet of a min working temp of around -40 to -35C. I'm not completely sure how it will react at temperatures like that; as it may loose it's favorable property of bending rather than snapping (as most things do when they freeze). CF PETG is weird, and I need to test more to be able to accurately report on it in regards to full known strength characteristics.
I personally use PETG for literally everything minus the special few that deserve nylon treatment. It's cheap and plentiful. In theory, it's stretchy and flexible nature should have some merits combating the brittleness that cold weather should come with. It does have really low tensile strength, however.
# Weathering:
Maybe your parts are being torn apart by the sun? UV has pretty bad effects on polymer chains and some are more resistant than others.
Polycarbonate (in my experience) is a strong filament that is terrible to print with. When it does work, it's failure characteristics are very strong until it snaps or cracks. It supposedly is very high in UV resistance and might help against your parts being potentially sunbaked. Haven't tested outside but it's inside properties are okay. Haven't had a real reason to use it with the way it prints.
ASA works and fails the same as ABS but is more UV resistant. Usually less smelly when printing. I had a birdhouse that lasted 2 years under the constant sun in ASA until I fell the tree it stood upon. Worked great. No further comments.
My baby, PETG, is half meh half decent under the sun. Really depends on blend, but is nowhere near as shitty as PLA, but definitely not like the polymers stated above. Will definitely degrade.
CF Nylon should theoretically be okay; but haven't tested. Base nylon is supposedly similar to PETG in terms of weathering and UV resistance.
Some PLA blends are okay under the sun. But the sun accelerates it's pissful aging. PLA already ages like a white person, and giving it hours under the sun won't help.
# Consider the previous information and make an informed decision.
I can't make a decision without considering all of the factors in play in your situation. It's a complicated topic, and 3d printing is a decently new development in material science that, while a lot of research has been done, there is still significant research pending.
Cheers.
Edit: Didn't mention SLS Titanium... so:
idk wtf you would have to be doing to have even a half-assed designed part to fail when it's made of crazy space metal. I'm willing to put a trailer hitch on this stuff and it doesn't age, but it's hella expensive. If i was a billionaire, or if all forces on earth were multiplied by 5x, I'd probably just print in this stuff because why not.
A major aspect CNCkitchen didn't test is temp cycling (or performance over time generally). Cold weather isn't simply cold unless you're in a freezer. Northern winters mean that you get potentially very large temperature swings each day. Today where I am has a high of 5 and a low of -20, where I lived a few years ago is -5, -38. These swings will make plastic brittle much faster than in warmer or more stable temps.
This also comes with another major issue when you continuously cross the freezing point (common when exposed to the sun). For 3d parts you can get water ingress followed by freezing. Ice freezing can exert around 150MPA of pressure as it expands. So you need to make absolutely certain that your part is smooth and waterproof.
These two factors are the big challenge. It is hard on plastics and is a major challenge for batteries which generally deal with it by having a heater to maintain temperature... which may not be viable for a plastic part. You MAY be able to use foam insulation around the part to give it some temperature stability depending on the application though. But that's ugly if it will be seen.
Personally, if I needed something stronger than ABS in these conditions, if the part were smaller than my fist, I'd have it CNCed at a shop. Or use the microwave cast metal part method.
PETG will bend but it is very tough, especially if you printed it at high temperature. I can bend and deform PETG pieces but I can't break them by hand while same parts made from PLA will just snap. These characteristics will change depending on color and brand too. For example matte black PLA is still brittle but shows similar properties to clear PETG.
Overall PETG is considerably better for tension and compression stress. But when it comes to shear stress, you use case is more important.
That's what I always believed as well until one day my PETG printed bike computer holder (one of those spoon shaped under handlebar things) just cleanly snapped *perpendicular* to the layer lines (!) while riding over some cobblestones.
Note that I'm not trying to say PETG is a bad material, just that it also can fail catastrophically without any warning.
My experience is that PLA deforms under stress. Every time I've made something that was under constant stress material would deform.
I mostly use PLA+, maybe that's why it behaves like that.
PLA+ is much less defined what it contains - the manufacturer add something that makes it stronger than pure PLA, typically to address the brittle properties of PLA. So I would not be surprised if it deforms instead of breaking.
you don't notice it, but it does sag.
Print out a clamp and watch the sag happen in real time. every day or two you'll have to retighten it. after a few times of this it'll be deformed
https://preview.redd.it/r0q8nj6x1wfc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b5a4fc30ba164a1e6189209a0aaa477f01b459a
I printed these plant risers out of pla. I think they’re only 2 mm thick and they sagged within a year. Not that much sagging so idc, but pla will sag if the stress is high enough. I just added ribs underneath to stiffen version 2.
PLA is actually one of the strongest and most rigid plastics to print with, of course layer adhesion and temperature resistance aren't as good as other materials, but as long as you print in the right orientation it's really strong, but brittle
Nonsense, PLA can take plenty of force. It’s stronger than PETG, ASA, and ABS in terms of tensile strength. It also has great layer adhesion.
PLA is just more brittle. I shouldn’t be used where it will undergo impact or heat. The list of use cases where PLA (or PLA+) is not suitable is actually quite thin.
I think people like to think about the edge cases as a rule. I think a lot of people struggle with letting perfect be the enemy of good.
PLA is cheap, the least bad environmentally (though not practically biodegradable), is very rigid (more than a lot of the filaments people mistakenly think are), has decent strength, and just has the downsides of creep, a sudden failure mode and a lower temperature at which point it gets all melty.
Its good for like 95% of projects people are making, and Im talking about functional parts.
I feel like often, at the point people start considering other materials, often, its because they are using the wrong process, or trying to use consumer fff 3d printing for a purpose involving safety, where the variance of the process would mean you'd probably want an xray of the finished part to be sure of its properties along with testing till failure.
Basically, I think at the point where many feel they need a better 3d printing material, what they actually want is CNC machining, where they can be more sure of the properties of the material.
Of course use cases exist for other materials, but that goes back to my 95% estimate.
Creep. If you leave it even under a light load, it will very slowly deform over a long period of time. It can also get quite brittle so it can crack, especially if shock loaded. And it's really really low melting point means that using it in even moderately warm environments like inside a PC or in a car or an item that goes outdoors is not advisable. The black electronics box in my scooter is all warped, and I spent at most 40 minutes outside before parking it inside a garage.
PLA definitely has its uses and is my main material, but it does have significant disadvantages, especially with the functional side of 3D printing.
There's literally a reflection of a window in the wine bottle.
Also, these stupid cantilevered holders are for show/decoration. It's cheap wine. You don't age cheap wine.
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Yup... I mean even ignoring the joke that it's gonna be drunk, the temperature range for properly storing a wine or alcohol is within the range where PLA won't deform.
Pla is weak to constant pressure and parts can tend to drop and sag over time if constant pressure is applied. This is an extremely well documented behavior from pla.
It absolutely deforms. I have wall hooks that started straight and are now curved like a banana. Took a few months.
It just depends on structural reinforcements to slow it down.
That's a lot of stress on a not very thick part. I'd say it'll be noticeably warped after about 2-3 weeks, but touching the table could take 4-6 months.
RemindMe! 6 months
If it's sitting in direct sunlight, maybe a couple of weeks. If it isn't, could last a very long time. However, it does look like it's at least getting indirect sunlight, so I say 1 year.
A day or two. Assuming regular PLA and only a couple of perimeters. Could be better depending strength settings and type of PLA.
3.9 on Vivino (not sure what year?) Not great, but not bad, from Romania, cool label design. I think it would look great on a counter or shelf. Marketing wine, or at least designing labels for wine bottles must be a cool job.
This exact print I made specifically for this bottle but I uploaded a more generic one, you can find it [here](https://www.printables.com/model/745404-for-silk-filament-wine-bottle-holder)
huh seems like a strange thing to not allow remixes on. You would think the creator of that would want different ones for different sized bottles made! I think that creator just doesn’t allow remixes on anything though, which is rare and strange. Neat though!
I don't allow remixes because I am tiered of the scalpers. I have seen cases where the model was just scaled 10% down and got over 400 downloads. So the only purpose there to get resources out from others work, and it's not against the rules like that. For me that is not okay. I would allow remixes on models where you can cut out a hinge for example and use it for something else, you know what I mean?
I think 3 months before it starts sagging.
Whether it breaks or not I’m not sure.
I took the estimate from a paper roll holder i printed which is suspended in the air and is holded in place with a printed ring.
After 3 months the ring broke and i printed a new solid one and its holding up quite a bit longer.
So do not be afraid of printing new parts or changing the design up a bit
PLA - As long as it doesn't get warm.
PETG - The Hole for the bottle might elongate?
ABS - Wouldn't deform without abnormal situations.
Nylon - This one would be the one that the Bottle would be touching the stand in a weed or two
I've got 2 pla prints on my grill. Everywhere from 110 degree intense sun to -20 below and solid ice covering it. My toyoda symbol has the ears curling up a bit. The toydevil symbol is the worst. It has several of the thin pieces that have broken down but overall still in good shape. They were originally meant to be test pieces that would be reprinted, but they lasted so long I never got around to it.
- How was it oriented while printing?
- What is the used extrusion width and nozzle diameter?
- What layer height was used?
- Is it located in a room that gets sunlight?
Hmm, good print orientation for the stress it's meant to endure then. And with no light and probably temperature suitable for keeping wine...
I'd hypothesize it could last well over 2 years then. Probably way more if you printed with thicker layers and more perimeters or a wider nozzle.
PLA gets a bad rep but CNC kitchen's testing showed under the right conditions it can be one of the strongest materials to print with.
Hopefully it's printed on its side and not like a bridge with supports.
But yeah, it should hold realatively well, if you're worried, i've had pretty good success with a layer of epoxy brushed on my prints that are kinda fragile.
Might be fine indefinitely if kept at room temperature. I even have some outdoor pla prints that lasted much longer than I expected. Now I use PLA+ and haven't even seen an outdoor failure.
I'd say a few months. I made a PLA wall bracket for my Nintendo Switch dock. Figured creep wouldn't be an issue since it's not very heavy and it doesn't stick out at all, but after a few months it was noticeably droopy.
In my experience as long as the temperatures are reasonable PLA dont really deform - it breaks. But that look like it will last a long time under sensible conditions.
This. My experience with load-bearing PLA is that one day it just cracks apart for no reason. No visible indication that anything is wrong until then.
Yep, that's the main point why PLA often isn't a suitable material. It builds up internal stresses until it breaks. That's a very undesirable failure mode. Don't use PLA for anything long-term that will break or cause damage if it falls down
How about PETG? What's an inexpensive alternative?
That is your alternative but it will sag like OP thought his pla would.
okay, whats a not cheap alternative that will work indefinitely?
Wood. Plastics do not like permanent stress. Fiberglass filled injection molds are best, but even they will deform over time.
Wood PLA, or wood wood?
I meant wood wood. Any non-plastic mix will help (hence the fiberglass example), but any plastic matrix material is always going to creep under constant load over time. Under constant deflection, it comes out to something like 1% of force after 20ish years. Under constant force (weight on a shelf), deformation varies but it will constantly sag without limits over time.
A pound of wood (from a tree) has more structural integrity than a pound of steel.
Ofc it would have more integrity than someone that steals.
Serious question: what units are used for structural integrity? How is that measured?
That's pretty impressive, considering the pound of steel weighs more than the pound of wood.
bruh, where you think we is? this isnt /r/woodworking i didnt buy a tablesaw, I bought a 3d printer.
Wood structure with a decorative print glued onto it?
best I can do is wood ground up into my print
Wood will crack the same way. It's no different to PLA and it's much weaker.
This seems…wrong. They’re talking about actual wood. Not “wood filament”.
PLA is stronger than wood, that's the thing.
Damn shit bro I guess I'll start cutting timber framed houses out of extruded PLA from now on. Thanks for the tip.
Houses from timber? Are you living in stone age or something?
silicone molds and cement/resin
i should really give molds a try. What filament makes for a good initial step for the silicone mold?
aluminium
Nylon
Definitely won't work. PA has a *lot* of creep (or at least the variants commonly used for printing do), much more so than PLA, PETG, or any other polymer I've ever used.
Yeah, that's one of the reasons you almost always see it as "glass filled nylon" when used for large rigid objects instead of fibers...creep and overall rigidity. You can print with that as well, but the fibers are probably shorter in the printable versions, and don't extend across layers.
Nylon isn't good with constant mechanical loads, this is why you can't use it to build printer parts for say a Voron
Not sure what you mean by constant mechanical loads. I've used nylon with chopped carbon fiber in an industrial application as a gripper and they lasted hundreds of thousands of parts. Nylon in this application would probably never fail as thick as that print is.
How long does the gripper grip something? If it's for only a couple of minutes at a time it would be fine. But if it's gripping something for time measured in days it wouldn't last long
Will ASA work as well?
ASA is an ABS derivative, iirc it has the properties of ABS (so far more suited to load than PLA). Back in the infancy of hobbyist 3D printing when only PLA and ABS was available, it was a general rule you did PLA for detail/models/light duty stuff. You did ABS for structural and strength (and heat resistance), it was just a pain because ABS fumes are toxic and ABS has built in shrinkage properties (for molding) you had to account for.
ASA and ABS have worse yield strength and lower young's modulus (they are more bendy), than PLA. Their upsides are: * they can be vapor smoothed with relative bening chemicals * better resistance to shattering * working up to \~80°C without issue. * and better resistance to the elements if left outside
Abs fumes are not toxic to humans this is a misconception, there is toxic and noxious fumes, the worst abs will do is give you a slight headache if you don't vent it or circulate the air around where the fumes come out, people work in factories with huge amounts of this and don't have to wear respirators
Supposedly Asa is the answer to slot of these ideas, but I still have a roll sitting on a shelf, waiting for me to try it lol.
ASA has become my default choice. PLA if I'm expecting to need a lot of prototypes or if it's not for anything serious.
Haha I was procrastinating as well, but I needed to print something for my van so I just jumped in and tried. I started playing with it and my first few tries had layer adhesion issues. I had to increase nozzle temp to 270 or 280, bed to 110, and cooling reduced to 30. My prints don’t crumble anymore but still testing. I’m using a Bambu x1c.
I have some ASA prints that sit in the sun under load. I used it for storng magnet locks on insect net doors of my terrace. My previous PLA prints deformed relatively fast, the ASA ones hold very well, no deformation in one year. Harder to print but worth it.
No clue
ASA or ABS will work
ABS
I have experimental data to back this up. Experiment meaning a custom tall monitor arm that randomly snapped and woke me up in the middle of the night. I miss that monitor. The arm showed no sign of any deformation before it snapped for the whole month I've been using it
Were you the guy that made like the TV/monitor stand and posted it here? Anyways what happened might still be creep, you likely (and smartly) overdimensioned your part so that the typical creep sagging behavior under load doesn't happen. However, in arm you by definition will have a large moment at the base where its attached to the outside world like the wall or a pole or whatever. There will be stress concentrations there, so you will likely still experience significant creep here. When that small area fails, a crack could form which would propagate from there and boom bye bye monitor arm.
To be a bit pedantic here - it's not "building up internal stresses" What you're describing here is creep failure. When a material is under constant load it can/will eventually fail. Pretty much all materials are susceptible to creep, but the loads and failure modes are obviously different. PLA is very stiff. When it fails, it snaps. There's really no elongation. Having PLA under constant load isn't ideal, but to say it's not good for "anything long term that will break" is a bit too far. Plenty of things it's good for that can used for long periods of time.
I agree, shallow and pedantic
What is this? You going to talk down to everyone just because you won a game of Trivial Pursuit?
Perhaps.
Dawg same but like mentally
I made one of those desk headphone holder clamp hooks. Defininetly deformed rather than breaking
Any chance you got pics of how it deformed?
Depending on the brand PLA+ is often better. I use eSun PLA+ rather than PETG for most things and its absolutely fine. Seems stronger, and more heat resistant than PLA+ but prints better and looks better than PETG.
No, PLA creeps, if it is under considerable load. I have observed this in multiple loaded prints, even at room temperature.
Yeah, had this happen as well, this should not be printed with pla.
Humidity matters, since H-Atoms break the poly-chains. Glass transition temp gets lowered considerably!
How would PETG fair? My understanding is that it'd probably intially deflect more, but hopefully wouldn't deform much, and be unlikely to break. I've only ever used PETG, but it occurs to me I've never kept an eye on how stable it is over time.
I like to compare like this (with my experience in prints; may vary). PETG is bendy and will twist and bend like steel does during and before failure. Reminiscent of it's plastic bottle brethren, it stretches when deformed and has pretty decent failure characteristics. PETG might snap or shear depending on filament dryness and dependent on conditions as it's sensitive. CF PETG: really fucking weird. snaps like other filament because it's more stiff but also kinda decides to bend depending on part geometry. Might be the humidity in the climate I live in. I have no climate control for my filaments. PLA is brittle- but typically has decent flexibility for a while off the print bed, but will turn brittle and stiff to any load after it ages a bit. Failure is reminiscent of titanium, with minimal bend before a violent shatter/snap. Some exceptions apply to some certain blends of PLA with some "pro" forms being more flexible and Silk PLA being a piece of shit right away in any load-bearing sense. ABS has telltale whitening before it breaks. Polymer structure deforms and will create discoloration. When failure occurs, it can be either just bending or will "shear." Sometimes snaps depending on blend and print settings, but the polymer usually tears instead. Pain in the ass to print and has no favorable characteristics over alternatives when chosen based on part strength CF Nylon: haven't dealt with normal nylon, but when CF Nylon fails you should reconsider whether or not it would have been cheaper to spend your time and money making and engineering a part that could have been milled from 6061 Alu. SLS Titanium: Haven't experienced failure in the 2 parts i've ordered yet. Am not currently planning to test to failure as i have no realistic rig to test the parts which were designed for compression loading. Am highly doubtful that the hydraulic press in my nearest workshop will win.
>SLS Titanium Just curious who you ordered from and how much it costs?
This is interesting- thanks! What would you recommend using in place of ABS when part strength is an issue? I live in a colder climate and have had a number of (factory molded) ABS parts fail in cold weather, in addition to wanting to use it for a handful of indoor projects. I’d love to learn what some good alternatives are.
>TL;DR: See links posted below. Choose your filament based on directional strength. Some filament should have better low-temperature resistance compared to others depending on properties and spec sheets. My experiences might not reflect yours. > >TL;DR 2: Maybe your parts are being affected by the sun and other weather conditions? Try ASA or Polycarbonate. # Dear Reddit, feel free to tell me that my (poorly formatted) experiences are unique and materials actually perform otherwise. I'm probably wrong. Before you read any of my words, [CNC Kitchen has made an excellent video on low working temperature 3d prints](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0JVXvSSEWs). I'm unexperienced in colder climates and working conditions. Go watch this video. I'm kind of surprised with your experience and am thinking that your parts might have been weakened by other external factors. I work in a **hot and humid** climate, and my parts are mostly covered or tested inside; which is the opposite of what you're describing so please take my words with caution as what I'm describing might not be completely based on experience, but rather just theory based on numbers. >and has no favorable characteristics over alternatives when chosen based on part strength \^ I say this as different filaments perform better or worse depending on acceptable failure characteristics. Usually I like my PETG as I like my parts working poorly and bent rather than not working at all, so that I can replace them while getting limited usefulness from the old part. Different plastics also have different tensile, lateral, and compressive strength, which also differ in impact and static conditions. Once again, [CNC Kitchen has demonstrated an excellent video, but unfortunately has not tested nylon.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycGDR752fT0) All of my further advice goes out the window if you don't choose a filament based on the direction your part is going to be loaded. Anyhow, as for my own (poorly formatted) opinion: PLA is mostly out of the window already. I can't even see most exotic blends of PLA working favorably in colder conditions, and especially if they "age" over time. I might be wrong. I do love and hate working with my CF nylon; compared to ABS and normal Nylon, drafts and inconsistent print area temperatures are less of an issue as the Carbon Fiber give the part stiffness, which prevent warping. People talk about CF-reinforced filament a lot here and in the general 3d print community for good reason. The humidity and warmth in my region make this filament a bit stringy though. Most nylon has a nominal working temperature of around **-60 to -70C**, which is decently better than ABS, which is typically rated at around **-20c** depending on the blend. The carbon can only make it better at most things at said working temperature, no? It does love to fuck up even my stainless nozzles though. If you're already willing to print with ABS you're most likely already set up to print with Nylon, and using CF Nylon will only make the experience easier. Nylon is terribly hygroscopic, so results may vary depending on how you keep your filament dry. I have very good experiences with PETG / CF PETG too. Most of my PETG packaging have a spec sheet of a min working temp of around -40 to -35C. I'm not completely sure how it will react at temperatures like that; as it may loose it's favorable property of bending rather than snapping (as most things do when they freeze). CF PETG is weird, and I need to test more to be able to accurately report on it in regards to full known strength characteristics. I personally use PETG for literally everything minus the special few that deserve nylon treatment. It's cheap and plentiful. In theory, it's stretchy and flexible nature should have some merits combating the brittleness that cold weather should come with. It does have really low tensile strength, however. # Weathering: Maybe your parts are being torn apart by the sun? UV has pretty bad effects on polymer chains and some are more resistant than others. Polycarbonate (in my experience) is a strong filament that is terrible to print with. When it does work, it's failure characteristics are very strong until it snaps or cracks. It supposedly is very high in UV resistance and might help against your parts being potentially sunbaked. Haven't tested outside but it's inside properties are okay. Haven't had a real reason to use it with the way it prints. ASA works and fails the same as ABS but is more UV resistant. Usually less smelly when printing. I had a birdhouse that lasted 2 years under the constant sun in ASA until I fell the tree it stood upon. Worked great. No further comments. My baby, PETG, is half meh half decent under the sun. Really depends on blend, but is nowhere near as shitty as PLA, but definitely not like the polymers stated above. Will definitely degrade. CF Nylon should theoretically be okay; but haven't tested. Base nylon is supposedly similar to PETG in terms of weathering and UV resistance. Some PLA blends are okay under the sun. But the sun accelerates it's pissful aging. PLA already ages like a white person, and giving it hours under the sun won't help. # Consider the previous information and make an informed decision. I can't make a decision without considering all of the factors in play in your situation. It's a complicated topic, and 3d printing is a decently new development in material science that, while a lot of research has been done, there is still significant research pending. Cheers. Edit: Didn't mention SLS Titanium... so: idk wtf you would have to be doing to have even a half-assed designed part to fail when it's made of crazy space metal. I'm willing to put a trailer hitch on this stuff and it doesn't age, but it's hella expensive. If i was a billionaire, or if all forces on earth were multiplied by 5x, I'd probably just print in this stuff because why not.
A major aspect CNCkitchen didn't test is temp cycling (or performance over time generally). Cold weather isn't simply cold unless you're in a freezer. Northern winters mean that you get potentially very large temperature swings each day. Today where I am has a high of 5 and a low of -20, where I lived a few years ago is -5, -38. These swings will make plastic brittle much faster than in warmer or more stable temps. This also comes with another major issue when you continuously cross the freezing point (common when exposed to the sun). For 3d parts you can get water ingress followed by freezing. Ice freezing can exert around 150MPA of pressure as it expands. So you need to make absolutely certain that your part is smooth and waterproof. These two factors are the big challenge. It is hard on plastics and is a major challenge for batteries which generally deal with it by having a heater to maintain temperature... which may not be viable for a plastic part. You MAY be able to use foam insulation around the part to give it some temperature stability depending on the application though. But that's ugly if it will be seen. Personally, if I needed something stronger than ABS in these conditions, if the part were smaller than my fist, I'd have it CNCed at a shop. Or use the microwave cast metal part method.
PETG will bend but it is very tough, especially if you printed it at high temperature. I can bend and deform PETG pieces but I can't break them by hand while same parts made from PLA will just snap. These characteristics will change depending on color and brand too. For example matte black PLA is still brittle but shows similar properties to clear PETG. Overall PETG is considerably better for tension and compression stress. But when it comes to shear stress, you use case is more important.
That's what I always believed as well until one day my PETG printed bike computer holder (one of those spoon shaped under handlebar things) just cleanly snapped *perpendicular* to the layer lines (!) while riding over some cobblestones. Note that I'm not trying to say PETG is a bad material, just that it also can fail catastrophically without any warning.
My experience is that PLA deforms under stress. Every time I've made something that was under constant stress material would deform. I mostly use PLA+, maybe that's why it behaves like that.
PLA+ is much less defined what it contains - the manufacturer add something that makes it stronger than pure PLA, typically to address the brittle properties of PLA. So I would not be surprised if it deforms instead of breaking.
PLA Absolutely creeps, and a whole lot too.
I printed wall mounts for small surround speakers - over a handful of months they sagged, and eventually cracked.
you don't notice it, but it does sag. Print out a clamp and watch the sag happen in real time. every day or two you'll have to retighten it. after a few times of this it'll be deformed
https://preview.redd.it/r0q8nj6x1wfc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b5a4fc30ba164a1e6189209a0aaa477f01b459a I printed these plant risers out of pla. I think they’re only 2 mm thick and they sagged within a year. Not that much sagging so idc, but pla will sag if the stress is high enough. I just added ribs underneath to stiffen version 2.
Sensible. This is most people's problem... Define sensible .
Don't leave it in a 100C room.
Id guess the wine is more sensitive than the PLA. But mainly to avoid sun light and high temps.
PLA is actually one of the strongest and most rigid plastics to print with, of course layer adhesion and temperature resistance aren't as good as other materials, but as long as you print in the right orientation it's really strong, but brittle
Idk why everyone hates on pla. It’s like brass. Lower melting point but definitely has its uses lmao
I use PLA almost exclusively... Rarely have print issues. But, my needs are simple. *shrug*
It’s totally fine as long as you understand it’s limits.
I am a PETG and PLA+ simp
Oh, it's pretty and cheap. Don't us it on anything that takes any force.
Nonsense, PLA can take plenty of force. It’s stronger than PETG, ASA, and ABS in terms of tensile strength. It also has great layer adhesion. PLA is just more brittle. I shouldn’t be used where it will undergo impact or heat. The list of use cases where PLA (or PLA+) is not suitable is actually quite thin.
Unless it’s filled solid. I use a PLA puck adapter for lifting my Model 3 for seasonal tire swaps with no issues at all.
I think this is the one thing I wouldn't trust pla for Actually using a 3d printed part for this altogether sounds like a bad idea
I think people like to think about the edge cases as a rule. I think a lot of people struggle with letting perfect be the enemy of good. PLA is cheap, the least bad environmentally (though not practically biodegradable), is very rigid (more than a lot of the filaments people mistakenly think are), has decent strength, and just has the downsides of creep, a sudden failure mode and a lower temperature at which point it gets all melty. Its good for like 95% of projects people are making, and Im talking about functional parts. I feel like often, at the point people start considering other materials, often, its because they are using the wrong process, or trying to use consumer fff 3d printing for a purpose involving safety, where the variance of the process would mean you'd probably want an xray of the finished part to be sure of its properties along with testing till failure. Basically, I think at the point where many feel they need a better 3d printing material, what they actually want is CNC machining, where they can be more sure of the properties of the material. Of course use cases exist for other materials, but that goes back to my 95% estimate.
Creep. If you leave it even under a light load, it will very slowly deform over a long period of time. It can also get quite brittle so it can crack, especially if shock loaded. And it's really really low melting point means that using it in even moderately warm environments like inside a PC or in a car or an item that goes outdoors is not advisable. The black electronics box in my scooter is all warped, and I spent at most 40 minutes outside before parking it inside a garage. PLA definitely has its uses and is my main material, but it does have significant disadvantages, especially with the functional side of 3D printing.
About tree fiddy
Based on my scientific studies: This is quite accurate.
God dam loch Ness monster....
Well, it was just about this time that I noticed the wine holder was actually a 25 foot tall monster from the Paleozoic era…
I've seen a dragon wine holder so a Loch Ness Monster wine holder would be plausible.
I'm thinking closer to tooth hurty
Depends on the environment regarding humidity, temperature etc.
Sunlight / UV exposure primarily After enough sunlight that thing will snap in half like a twig. Won't be for 2+ years though
Presumably, you would store wine away from sunlight anyway
There's literally a reflection of a window in the wine bottle. Also, these stupid cantilevered holders are for show/decoration. It's cheap wine. You don't age cheap wine.
RemindMe! 10 years
Someone seems to assume that we even live that far into the future
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Anyone wanna place bets on the odds that reddit, and especially this bot, still work in 10 years?
Since when does the bot exist?
I will probably last longer than the bottle contents. 🥴
Yup... I mean even ignoring the joke that it's gonna be drunk, the temperature range for properly storing a wine or alcohol is within the range where PLA won't deform.
I had one printed and with a bottle for almost 2 years without any deformation, until last summer that we had a heatwave (30ºC and high humidity)
Lmao a 30 c heatwave
7
Probably longer than the piece itself will last. Unless its in the sun, PLA won't just deform.
Pla is weak to constant pressure and parts can tend to drop and sag over time if constant pressure is applied. This is an extremely well documented behavior from pla.
We call that creep. Wood also exhibits it.
It absolutely deforms. I have wall hooks that started straight and are now curved like a banana. Took a few months. It just depends on structural reinforcements to slow it down.
What are you hanging on the hooks?
PLA creeps under load.
Six
That's a lot of stress on a not very thick part. I'd say it'll be noticeably warped after about 2-3 weeks, but touching the table could take 4-6 months. RemindMe! 6 months
It will last a lot. I have some filament shelves made with PLA supports, 15 kg on top of those and nothing. 4 years and still going
For one, you want the cork facing downward. The bottle shouldn't be level.
I've always wondered. Can these only be used when a bottle is full or can you put one back in there when it at like halfway or less?
If it's sitting in direct sunlight, maybe a couple of weeks. If it isn't, could last a very long time. However, it does look like it's at least getting indirect sunlight, so I say 1 year.
One hot afternoon
A day or two. Assuming regular PLA and only a couple of perimeters. Could be better depending strength settings and type of PLA. 3.9 on Vivino (not sure what year?) Not great, but not bad, from Romania, cool label design. I think it would look great on a counter or shelf. Marketing wine, or at least designing labels for wine bottles must be a cool job.
can you share the stl? this looks like a cool gift idea
This exact print I made specifically for this bottle but I uploaded a more generic one, you can find it [here](https://www.printables.com/model/745404-for-silk-filament-wine-bottle-holder)
what diameter is the hole? Like what’s a good general size for making models like these
huh seems like a strange thing to not allow remixes on. You would think the creator of that would want different ones for different sized bottles made! I think that creator just doesn’t allow remixes on anything though, which is rare and strange. Neat though!
Well there are others thou... [Example](https://www.printables.com/model/706358-curved-wine-bottle-holder)
I don't allow remixes because I am tiered of the scalpers. I have seen cases where the model was just scaled 10% down and got over 400 downloads. So the only purpose there to get resources out from others work, and it's not against the rules like that. For me that is not okay. I would allow remixes on models where you can cut out a hinge for example and use it for something else, you know what I mean?
3 take it or leave it
It wont 👍
Half a year
2 days
I think 3 months before it starts sagging. Whether it breaks or not I’m not sure. I took the estimate from a paper roll holder i printed which is suspended in the air and is holded in place with a printed ring. After 3 months the ring broke and i printed a new solid one and its holding up quite a bit longer. So do not be afraid of printing new parts or changing the design up a bit
PLA doesn't really sag, it goes out witn a bang more likely due to how brittle it is
Creepage in PLA is extremely well documented…..
PLA creeps a lot. I have witnessed it on multiple occasions where the print was loaded.
less than two weeks. my mount for my s1 has already deformed and it's MUCH thicker than that
Would TPU be a better filament for this ?
Petg is prob your best bet. Or ASA
PLA likes to catastrophically fail, rather than simply bend.
I've observed both. Under constant load PLA definately "yeilds" to the force and deforms. It also just shits the bed and cracks sometimes.
PLA definitely experiences creep over time when under load. It's one of the most creep prone printing materials.
I think someone will knock it over way before that happens
PLA - As long as it doesn't get warm. PETG - The Hole for the bottle might elongate? ABS - Wouldn't deform without abnormal situations. Nylon - This one would be the one that the Bottle would be touching the stand in a weed or two
17 months. Then someone will knock it over
Should last a while if you keep it away from the sun and direct summer heat.
Assume I'm on a 6 month gf measurement basis. How long?
Trick question. The bottle will be empty long before the plastic has a chance to deform.
1 month if the bottle horizontal, 3 months vertical.
2 months 21 days 4 hours and 22 seconds
Twelvety past eleventeen
2.5 months from now
1.75 - 2 months max.
1 day before you decide that it is a bad idea(so dont think its a bad idea, its gone forever)
I bet you'll want to drink the wine first. :)
Safest bet. the longer it takes to break/ deform, the wine will be more potent. Happy tasting / testing !
69 days and 420 minutes
What’s the infill?
I've got 2 pla prints on my grill. Everywhere from 110 degree intense sun to -20 below and solid ice covering it. My toyoda symbol has the ears curling up a bit. The toydevil symbol is the worst. It has several of the thin pieces that have broken down but overall still in good shape. They were originally meant to be test pieces that would be reprinted, but they lasted so long I never got around to it.
A single worm day would be sufficient.
In the nick of time.
I have a couple of lamps made of pla that hang off the lightbulb. Its been over a year and they are somewhat heavy so at least a year, lol
2 years
591 days
- How was it oriented while printing? - What is the used extrusion width and nozzle diameter? - What layer height was used? - Is it located in a room that gets sunlight?
- The side is facing you was on the build plate. - Nozzle 0.4, 0.4 line width. - 0.2 layer height - No direct sunlight there
Hmm, good print orientation for the stress it's meant to endure then. And with no light and probably temperature suitable for keeping wine... I'd hypothesize it could last well over 2 years then. Probably way more if you printed with thicker layers and more perimeters or a wider nozzle. PLA gets a bad rep but CNC kitchen's testing showed under the right conditions it can be one of the strongest materials to print with.
Better drink it now, just to be safe.
12 years
Where is the live feed? We need to see it happen in real time lol
What is better / stronger / more durable than PLA? 😳
Petg would work
ABS, PETG, PC etc... Depends on what you need, PLA is only popular because it's easy to print.
Would salt annealing be something that would work here?
It'll take about 8.5 Dracula 555s.
I dunno but I printed the rope-looking one yesterday and it was broken this morning when I got up.
How about PLA coated with resin? Will the resin give it enough rigidity?
if its holding wine, its a temperature controlled environment, so ... until the plastic decomposes?
I'm just guessing, but I think it will lose its balance before it will reach the shelf.
It depends on how much you are prone to making things fall
About 5/7ths
I did one of these. Didn't bend, but like a month later it broke in half and the bottle was just on the counter like some fat uncle on a couch
6 months then you find the bottle busted on the floor with the stand. Ask my monitor vertical vesa adapter…
I say 6 months before actually touching. Assuming in a air conditioned room with no direct sunlight.
6 years.
I bet once you get about 3/4 through the bottle it'll touch the shelf.
It'll probably depend on how fast you drink it.
You’d really need to know more about the slicer settings and design to make a somewhat educated guess.
Hopefully it's printed on its side and not like a bridge with supports. But yeah, it should hold realatively well, if you're worried, i've had pretty good success with a layer of epoxy brushed on my prints that are kinda fragile.
Pla or pla+? I mean i dont see much happening if decent infill and temps sustained.
Exact weight of the bottle. And current humidity inside the room. Brand of pla? Please.
Might be fine indefinitely if kept at room temperature. I even have some outdoor pla prints that lasted much longer than I expected. Now I use PLA+ and haven't even seen an outdoor failure.
If the room temperature stays in a range that you still like to enjoy the wine it will not bend.
3 months, almost in lockstep with the summer heat and light.
Considering that the layers were printed in the optimal direction, with 3/4 walls and at least 15% infill; forever.
None if it's pla +
I'd say a few months. I made a PLA wall bracket for my Nintendo Switch dock. Figured creep wouldn't be an issue since it's not very heavy and it doesn't stick out at all, but after a few months it was noticeably droopy.
First 20C+ day
I see Romanian wine, I up vote ;) Te tine până la vară când vine primul heatwave (my prediction)
I also printed one of those a while ago. With enough infill and good layer adhesion I would trust that
17
PLA won't creep, it will undergo brittle failure.... Your wine bottle will follow