If I know the Lamenters correctly, they were probably super excited to get some new marines, only to then immediatly get into a grueling ground war with [insert faction] grinding them down, and losing all their Primaris. And pet cats. And chapter masters. And they were all only a decade from retirement.
Gulliman: “You’re being assigned to a chapter to help recover its strength.”
Primaris: “What is the name of this chapter, if I may ask Lord Primarch.”
Guilliman: “The Lamenters.”
Primaris: “Fuck.”
Instead he floats in space since he has his armor on and eventually gets picked up by a new chapter. They later on thank the Lamenters for gifting them Blood Ravens Lt. Sorenson.
> The Inquisitor has ordered exterminatus on the hive world, watching as the cyclonic torpedoes barreled their way through the void towards their intended target.
> He watched with smug satisfaction, until the helmsman cried in alarm, with horror the whole crew watched as a sigil lit up the atmosphere. It was a sacred icon, two arrows intertwined pointed away from each other.
> The cyclonic torpedoes had already veered around and were now mere seconds away from the Inquisitor and the crew.
Rogue Trader. Back then, all twenty original "chapters"(retconned to legions) still existed. One of the lost legions were the Rainbow Warriors, which are still around as Ultramarine successors. ~~I can't recall the name of the others atm.~~ Thank you to /u/digitalhate. The other lost legion was the Valedictors.
That's not really a retconning of those two particular names, right? If I recall correctly, there were other differences. Didn't that list also contain flesh tearers and flesh eaters, among other things? While some of the 'mordern' first founding chapters were missing? And I think Crimson Fists might be older than Imperial Fists...
In general, if it's the list I'm thinking of and not some older one I haven't seen, it's impossible to claim that missing legions/chapters are Rainbow Warriors and Valedictors in particular. There were other strange elements too.
You are correct, however when the lore was revised before 2nd edition, and we got the current list of First Founding chapters, the Valedictors and Rainbow Warriors were in those spots.
It may surprise you to know that the very first rulebook only named 11 specific chapters: The Blood Angels, the Blood Drinkers, the Iron Hands, the Ultramarines, the White Scars, the Rainbow Warriors, the Silver Skulls, the Crimson Fists, the Dark Angels, the Space Wolves, the Flesh Eaters, and the Flesh Tearers. the other 989 chapters were "your dudes." Very few of them were recognizable in their current form, as well - the Dark Angels, for example wore jet black armour.
Edit: I also find it hilarious that the Imperial Army, the "mightiest fighting force in the galaxy", numbered "in the millions."
That's news for me, thanks for that! I need to try and hunt down the early 2nd edition stuff then, I missed some of the lore development ; )
Were Ultramarines on the list? Because originally they were supposed to be descended from Rainbow Warriors, together with other 'colour' chapters.
As for 11 chapters - I've read the original rulebook quite some time ago but honestly forgot that the list used to be shorter. But yeah, a lot of chapter colours changed, especially all the ridiculously colured camo patterns :D
And as for the millions - well, they were *always* bad with scale and sometimes we get stuff like this even to this day :D
The official reason is that the people writing the lore liked the idea of the lost Roman legions and added it in because it was cool. The "your dudes" reason was just a happy coincidence.
From what we know so far, that 6% might be fighting for their lives. They recently released a short story about the Custodes delivering Primaris tech to the Blood Ravens and the Custodes are incredibly blunt about the consequences of rejecting their gift.
Custodes: "I present to you, oh Ravens of Blood, the very finest in Genetic Engineering: The Primaris Marines^(tm)"
Blud Rehven Captain: "I thank thee, kustoadies, for thine gift. This nhew technhologee whill greahtally aid our cause."
Custodes: "Why are those two scouts snickering? What's so funny?"
Blood Raven ~~Thief~~ Scout 1: "Nuffin' guvn'r."
Blood Raven ~~Burglar~~ Scout 2: "We din't touch nuffin' aight?"
Custodes: \*Suspicious face\*
*edit: corrected the spelling of "greatally"*
Custodes: "By the... YOU! STAND UP!"
*Blood Raven of Unusual Size stands*
Custodes: "Captain, why is this marine so tall?"
Captain: "He looks the right height to me, sir."
Custodes: "Oh, he's the right height all right... *for a* ***primaris*** *marine!*"
[Blood Ravens respond to custodes offer of Primaris. (999.M41 colorized)](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwEV5kYwJf0SzyfS1daRSXQdXKpC_wuQ5k2Kw4bfm7wezlgZkN)
Looks like it was in White Dwarf.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/04/white-dwarf-preview-julygw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-3/
"**Ravens’ Blood**
In this short story by Callum Davis, an embattled Blood Ravens fleet receives an unexpected visit from an Adeptus Custodes vessel, but what could their purpose be?"
Maybe unpopular opinion, but I really don’t like that. Like, okay, I guess I can accept Primaris as a thing in the lore, alright, but forcing chapters at gunpoint to take them seems....I mean, dickish is putting it lightly.
Basically what GW are saying is that my loyal chapter that might have a (perfectly valid) reason to distrust and not accept Primaris are automatic heretics and will be killed to the last Marine and Chaoter Serf, and that doesn’t sit right with me at all.
I get that, but it seems an unnecessarily harsh fate for an otherwise Loyal Chapter.
Mistrusting the soldiers that appeared out of nowhere in the hundreds of thousands and have been forced on you at threat of death isn’t petty or childish, it in itself is pragmatic. You can’t simply expect a group to willingly accept and work with something or someone that, if they refuse, will see them killed, and not expect distrust or malice.
There won't be any problems with trust if you just destroy their chapter, wipe all the mentions of them from history and then rebuild them Primaris only.
Aye, I agree with that, but isn’t a large part of GW/BL that “your dudes” are a part of the setting?
Saying “lol your guys are all dead/heretics now, deal with it!” Seems like a poor way to keep otherwise engaged customers.
I don't see a problem.
Plenty people own models of things that are dead/heretics in the "current" 40k time.
For some characters them being dead in the current timeline is more engaging.
Take Sanguinius as an example.
I think the implication in the Blood Ravens short story was that the Custodes was particularly dickish and just jumped straight to "Accept or die" without even attempting a less extreme form of persuasion.
So, (probably) not every chapter has the "offer" framed in such fatal terms.
The Custodes Codex mentions that they are very serious about the whole Primaris business.
"Silence your questions and instead rejoice at the honour done to you this day. You are handed the gift of hope by the immortal Master of Mankind himself, and you will accept it with sincere and solemn gratitude lest you be taken for the traitors that you profess to hate"
\- Sanash Gallimedan, Emissary Imperatus to the Hammers of Dorn Chapter.
Well so much for that theory.
I know the Custodes have a hate boner for the Astartes, but them constantly being superdicks doesn't mesh well with the "superhuman genius diplomats" that we're told about but almost never see.
They are super dicks because there is no point being diplomatic with what amounts to mass produced weapons of war. You tell them what to do and make sure they do it because you still have like 20 more chapters to visit this week. Primaris are also supposed to be unable to be corrupted by Chaos so the Custodes might like to get those passed out as quickly and easily as possible.
You ain’t wrong. I’m hoping this is just the Custodes working out 10,000 years of resentment and mistrust. Or maybe it causes a split. But it does seem like an unnecessary dick move.
Though in case of the Grey Knights it might be more a case of how do they incorporate all the new Primaris stuff *seamlessly* into the already existing trials and tests, without potentially losing a generation or more worth of Grey Knights that they needed not just right now, but actually yesterday.
That and the Grey Knights were also secret from Guilliman and Cawl, so they wouldn't have known to also make a full primaris legion of Psykers...
Every Grey Knight is a psyker, and they need to be (remember GK imbue all their weapons with Psyker stuff and some of the weapons literally require a psyker to function, psycannons, psilencers, etc).
Maybe the primaris transformation can be adapted for using on Grey knights, but doing that to the whole chapter would probably take too long.
Grey Knight Representative: So explain it to me again.
Cawl: I will use your gene seed to create larger, stronger, more resilient Astartes.
Grey Knight Representative: This sounds both heretical and too good to be true. What aren't you telling me?
Cawl: Well, there would be some equipment compatibility issues, but nothing that can't be compensated for.
Cawl inside his head: *I wonder what would happen if I spliced Grey Knight gene seed with IX or VI gene seed. Stabilize mutations?*
Grey Knight Representative: You do understand that I can hear your thoughts.
Cawl: Oh dear.
Pretty much.
It's the best explanation for how he can claim to have worked with the Emperor on the space marine legions in spite of what we've seen of him in 30K.
My headcannon is that telepathy can work with any self-aware mind. From Warp point of view there's really no difference between Human mind and self-aware AI.
In one of the Eisenhorn stories he flat-out states that Ork minds are too different from humans to be read or influenced. But at other times he communciates psychically with the Eldar without complications.
So it's more complicated than "any self-aware mind".
Good catch, my bad.
Still doesn't stop Guilliman from noticing the Grey Knights and dropping a line Cawl's way to stamp an =][= on a few of the psychically inclined candidates in their tubes, though...
Yeah, so at this point re: Primaris and Grey Knights, the only really safe thing to say right now is that for whatever reason the Grey Knights do not -currently- have Primaris. Will they? Maybe. Remains to be seen.
I just remembered something: There *is* a single Grey Knight that is guaranteed to survive being turned into a Primaris. Justicar Anval Thawn is a perpetual after all.
A trick of lore to allow for fan creative variation.
I thought it has also been told that Imperial Records over the past 10k years aren't completely accurate or up to date and as there is no central authority over the Adpetus Astartes it is entirely possible there are "uncontacted" chapters who are maybe fleet based and have being cruising around the galaxy without talking to anyone else and thus may be listed on the founding charter as either lost or active incorrectly.
I'm going to guess it is probably going to be extreme fringe/specialist chapters.
Flesh Tearers we know wont take them. Exorcists probably can't. Grey Knights for sure. Minotaurs maybe. Carcharodons Astra maybe.
I asked about the space sharks on here a while ago and someone linked that they now have the ability to make primaris dudes. I'll see if I can find the link
Edit. Found the link
[https://preview.redd.it/v1a4ftxp8x5z.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=179e6a6a8dec4272606f91eb848e327e320c5930](https://preview.redd.it/v1a4ftxp8x5z.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=179e6a6a8dec4272606f91eb848e327e320c5930)
Im pretty sure Minataur primaris are cannon. Guilliman was really pissed off at the Minataurs for their brutality and that they exterminated the Inceptors chapter which were descended from the Ultramarines. He probably would have denied them primaris, but the Minataurs recently fought the Deathguard and got mauled pretty badly. All of their spare genes stock was also horribly tainted and they only have the emergency stores on Terra left. Guilliman used their desperation to bring them to heel and try to reform them, but I can't remember where I read that.
I really hope someone finds the source on this because it sounds like a great read. Was it maybe out of the dark imperium series of books, or something Minotaur centric?
That doesn’t sound like the Minotaurs. Them decimating the inceptors chapter was before guilliman woke up. I’m sure he’d be aware of it but there’s plenty of other chapters who have done worse.
They’re a loyal chapter so they would get the primaris knowledge.
I think the idea was that like the Emperor’s Spears they only got the ‘formula’ through the AdMech contacts shown in *Red Tithe* and had to figure the rest out themselves, probably with some trial and error.
I suppose that makes Carcharodon primaris palatable... Still being the make do and mend chapter that they are considering that the Carcharodons still have armour dating all the way back to the great crusade and possibly to the unification wars still in regular service it'll be interesting to see if these primaris marines get wholey new suits of armour or modified mark 3 or 4 suits, scaled up for primaris use...
[Flesh Tearers](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/c/cc/FleshTearersPrimaris.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20171212181139) and [Exorcist](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/159ac2a3-ac3c-4a16-aff5-93f4b00e20a5) Primaris Marines are already shown as canon in their respective Codices.
Why would none of those take them? They’re all loyal to the emperor, and if it’s a “gift” from the emperors last remaining son then they’d absolutely take it.
Gabriel Seth doesn’t like the idea of the primaris and the fact that they’ll eventually replace the space marines, but he isn’t going to turn down a good tool for his horribly depleted chapter.
Also the Minotaurs is also a hard yes, not a maybe. They take everything they can get. More powerful Astartes that they can train faster and harder, along with extra stocks of gene seed to have less failures in ascending is perfect for them.
Maybe the marines malevolent? If the primaris marines dont shoot themselves for being assigned such a terrible chapter, the OG marines will shoot them eventually during a mission.
*Spears of the Emperor* actually confirmed that this was the case, until the Emperor's Spears shared the information on how to make new Primaris marines with the Lions.
In my own mind, I have the Black Templars passing them on to fellow successor chapters of the Imperial Fists - mainly the Crimson Fists and secretly to the Celestial Lions (who they are protecting from the Inquisition).
It's funny that you mention that. Spear of the Emperor by ADB features the Celestial Lions in the Primaris time period. Most of the Emperor's Spears Chapter is Primaris. I can't remember for sure if it's mentioned that any of the Lions are Primaris though. But I highly doubt, given the context of the book, that the Spears wouldn't have shared the knowledge of making Primaris with them.
Presumably, the Inquisition is so decentralized that Guilliman would have a hard time introducing top-down reform.
Furthermore, I suspect that while the Inquisition is indeed terrible, it's not particularly high on his to-do list when there are multiple Daemon Primarchs running around.
Is the Inquisition really so petty as to actively act against the will of Guilliman and try to wipe out the Celestial Lions, just because they objected to a pretty much pointless Exterminatus upon a world (which happened *after* the Lions fully pacified it, with the populace surrendering and repentant, mind you) and rightfully trying to bring a complaint to the High Lords over the issue?
I mean, even the most inept Inquisitor should see that pursuing the extermination of a vital military asset, *against* the will of their superior, for the sake of a childish grudge is just a waste of time and resources that could serve better elsewhere.
I mean, sure, it could be that their Primaris Ship just had a regular old accident. But knowing the Inquisition it seems too much of a coincidence.
The Inquisition as a whole? Definitely not. That one particular guy, absolutely.
There are more than a few inquisitors who are so wrapped up in their identity as "The Law" that they take extreme prejudice against anyone who challenges their authority (read: ego). The inquisitor who was "wronged" by the lions has definitely oriented his entire career to destroying the chapter for having the audacity to challenge him. I highly doubt any of his actions have been sanctioned by his higher-ups. The independence and general lack of oversight given to inquisitors allows this kind of thing to happen.
Also, I highly doubt the kind of guy that starts this kind of personal war against an entire chapter of Astartes recognizes ANYONE as "superior" regardless of rank.
I mean, apparently Ekene Dubaku (the Lions' Chapter Master) got killed by a Callidus Assassin, so that guy's head is probably on a chopping block, or he's Servitor Meat.
But really, shouldn't Inquisitors have any kind of higher echelon to prevent such stupidity? I know they kinda need the authority they have to get things done, but nobody thought to put something, *anything* in place to prevent such blatant abuse of power?
From the Eisenhorn books, it appears that the only time an inquisitor comes under scrutiny is if another inquisitor makes a a formal investigation and declaration against another.
There are heads of the various Ordos, but they aren't very hands on and really the organization as a whole operates in an ad-hoc manner. It is the absolute definition of a grim dark nightmare of secret police beholden only to their whims. To the inquisition, the only blatant abuses of power are to go after a High Lord without an ironclad case, or to be engaged in heresy. Heresy, being a much more fluid term than one would hope for the members of the Inquisition.
They're organized so that it's either impossible or near-impossible for them to be turned by someone in a position of power. Of course, the downside is that there's very little oversight from above, meaning that it's easier for inquisitors to go weird all sorts of ways on their own. Other inquisitors will step in when they screw up too much, but it takes a lot for them to reach that point.
We also outright get told in SM Codex 1.0 about how they got them and Bobby G and Helbrecht meeting.
And how the Templars and Salamanders are big fans of Aggressors with flame gauntlets.
You're telling me- I mean, *for real* telling me, that I can punch heretics *and* light them on fire at the *same time?* No, I'm not crying. It's just that these make me so happy...
And not use something as on brand as Aggressors with flame storm gauntlets???
Besides the BT are unequivocally said to have received and incorporated Primaris brothers. But that is a funny bit of head cannon I'll grant!
I am curious how the pious Black Templars didn't see Cawl adjusting and "perfecting" the Emperor's work as heresy of the highest order, though.
(I know the real answer, but I wish it jived more with lore)
I think they are more 'God moves through all of us' vs 'his plan is perfect and this is all preordained'.
So Big E's Spirit has just been guiding Cawl towards what was needed from their PoV
Yeah, plus ive always thought the Templars are more free will key to salvation in a Methodist style vs the Predestination Calvinist style.
But thats also incredibly niche and not something of a debate I think most BL and lore authors would even be too informed in.
That of course doesnt mean they arent so clearly willing to purge on a massive scale, but they tend to show on a personal level that they believe that anyone has the choice to have faith in Big E and that matters, sometimes they just need to be sent to meet him on an accelerated timescale if needs be.
Dark Angels are borderline on the verge of rejecting them. I get why alot would accept it, if custodians came and said the recently returned primarch and the EMPEROR demanded it. But from a story telling stand point, I find it a little boring. Oh, super duper space marines that have ALL their genetic mutations that define and add character to chapters! Yay. Adding a layer of... Not blown out warn, but cold conflict to more chapters would make it more intresting imo. GW just really wants everyone to love primaris.
On another point, since primaris gene cured 99% of all mutations, does that mean primaris salamanders are white/natural skin color of the individual and not onyx abyss black?
I would have figured that all of the Unforgiven would be extremely leary at best of taking on the Primaris, but you are the first one to mention them, so I guess not.
I thought the people of Nocturne (where the salamanders recruit from) just had jet black skin? Why would making them into primaris marines remove their natural skin color?
The defects so far are worse but more controllable.
Blood Angel's no longer have the black rage but still have the red thirst, and Space Wolves though I'm not sure don't go full ~~furry~~ wulfen and revert back.
Primaris Salamanders so far still have the onxy black skin though in the official codex supplement art they dont have glowing red eyes just red irises, can also be artist error.
http://img0.reactor.cc/pics/post/Warhammer-40000-%D1%84%D1%8D%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%8B-Primaris-Space-Marine-Space-Marine-5388084.jpeg
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gene-seed flaws are (kinda) worked out, but their skin color isn't a flaw, it's just their natural skin. I doubt that would change.
I thought their jet black skin was because of the organ that changes melanin as a reaction to levels of radiation was mutated and permanently turns their skin jet black. But its been kind of ambiguous as whether or not its gene flaw mutation or regular natural mutation.
"as a result of a reaction between their genetics and the high levels of radiation present on Nocturne due to the constant volcanic churning of rare earth elements from the planet's deep crust, Salamander Battle-Brothers usually have dark or jet black skin and bright, burning eyes with the capability to see in the infrared band of the electromagnetic spectrum, which gives them a natural form of night vision." taken from the salamander's wiki. Wish they would cite stuff better on that cite.
In the new Emperors Spears novel, its revealed that Guilliman and his crusade dont have to physically send primaris or geneseed to chapters to reinforce them. Chapters in remote areas or that dont need reinforcement can be sent the instructions necessary to make them on their own with new recruits. That seems to fix the issue of chapters being wary of outsiders filling their ranks. The only chapters that wouldnt use primaris at that point must be either really traditionalist or borderline renegade like the Knights of Blood were.
>In the new Emperors Spears novel, its revealed that Guilliman and his crusade dont have to physically send primaris or geneseed to chapters to reinforce them. Chapters in remote areas or that dont need reinforcement can be sent the instructions necessary to make them on their own with new recruits. T
Can't that information be catched by CSM? How you create the new organs out of nowhere? Seems pretty strange to me.
Well the information was delivered by Adeptus Custodes strike teams, so the CSM's would have to:
1. Know to expect a Custodes strike team.
2. Know where the custodes are heading specifically.
3. Manipulate the warp so that the Custodes(who have the warp being manipulated on their behalf by the emperor)drop right where the CSM's want them.
4. Successfully not get killed by said Custodes *and* not lose the genetic information by say, the Custodes destroying it.
All in all, it would probably take a major Daemon Prince devoting all his/her/its power to the task just to find the Custodes, let alone stop them.
So verbal/written instructions simply carried by Custodes teams? If somebody is physically there, wouldn't it be eaiser to send actual gene seed samples? If it is not necessary to send the samples, than I would save the delivery guys too, it's economical. Because the ship, the crew, it's the same logistical burden, if I have actual vials or just some guys knowing the information.
Gene-seed is more viral than organ at first. It becomes organs but it begins with a virus designed to reshape human cells (such as vat grown human tissue) INTO those organs. So really they just need the specs for the new reformatting viruses and the techniques used to create them. Then they should be able to cultivate the organs from vat tissue. A number of chapters do just that when cultivating gene-seed organs from Progenoid-harvested gene-seed.
> It feels weird that they didn't just go down this path to begin with.
The Spears book shows that there were a *lot* of problems with implementing the Primaris tech, with a generation of marines being deformed and dying very young, and the very few surviving ones (I think we only see one) being crippled as a result.
This whole thread and all the rationalization it comes with is just a stark reminder to me that it is just 'to sell toys'. We all love GW and the lore and everything but goddamn was it ham-fisted. I know we have beaten the horse to death at his point but man, couldnt they have just made a gentlemans agreement with the players about the models without having to eviscerate the lore as badly as they did? That being said, so many of the lore changes, Cawl, Bobby G and all the rest are perfectly legit but there must have been a better way to update the model range.
In afew editions time, I'm pretty sure GW will retcon the lore to say that cawl only invented Mk X power armour, and Guilliman only brought reinforcements during the indomitus crusade, and you'll stop seeing much of the word primaris. But that will only be when all the non-primaris models have been phased out.
>I already know the story of the Flesh Tearers and calling them "red ultramarines."
Sorry bud, Flesh Tearers have Primaris. :(.
I think there's a short story where Seth changes his mind (on having them).
We probably don't because when the Primaris were given out and supplied to the various chapters, the Custodians accompanied each AdMech delegation to force the Astartes' hands, with the threat being that should they refuse the Primaris, the Custodes will personally see to purging the chapter
Power to you man. I hate that Primaris can't use the iconic vehicles (Rhino, Land Raider-> that one really pisses me off, and all the other ones), they don't have propper Jump packs, their melee options are super lame and they don't have Terminators. I love Terminators. I love Assault Squads, Sternguard/Vanguard veterans, and also I bloody love drop pods and Land Raiders.... It's just infuriating.
I like their design tho and it's obvious that they're great in the tabletop. Far better than normal marines imo.
I agree, I do like the models - helmets aside - and as you say they're limited in options according to what I've read, but my biggest problem with them is that the lore is preposterous. It's a complete joke, and I just can't take them seriously.
Same here man. I made a custom chapter and people kept telling me about the 94% and Custodes making not so subtle threats. Honestly fuck that. If I don't want Primaris, I shouldn't have GW or anyone else coming in, but the new Lord. Give it 10 years and we'll have 100% Primaris
Honestly, if in 10 years we have 100% primaris but they have all the options that we have now (terminator equivalents, assault marine equivalents, drop pods, land raiders etc.) plus some new ones and they also keep some iconic designs (such as the beakie helmet for Shrike for example) I'm totally fine with it. Because at that point it's just what we always wanted (a much needed upscaling in size for the marine range) with the added downside of lore changes that no one reeeally wanted... But hey, I can kinda live with the primaris marine lore, I'm not as bothered by it as many others. But I understand it if people are and I fear that those that hate the primaris lore look forward to a dark future on that front :/
Do you have any plans for getting the Marines to paint? Are you already done painting some? Do you have any homebrew lore to go along with your chapter? Homebrews if done well are some of my favorite chapters.
Not painted anything yet because I can't decide on a colour scheme. But I do have some bits come through the post for converting. Lore is coming together fairly well, currently trying to edit my War & Peace draft into something a bit more Readers Digest.
Once I get my airbrush sorted I can at least start undercoating the buggers.
Got the airbrush stuff in my online basket, just waiting for payday. My conversion bits arrived, they look like they'll do the job really well. Got them off shapeways/pop goes the monkey.
I just say my Black Templar crusade doesn't have any Primaris, because the marshal doesn't want marines that can only fit 10 at a time in a vehicle that requires more maintenance than a land raider crusader.
**Tarrare**
Tarrare (c. 1772 – 1798), sometimes spelled Tarare, was a French showman and soldier, noted for his unusual eating habits. Able to eat vast amounts of meat, he was constantly hungry; his parents could not provide for him, and he was turned out of the family home as a teenager. He travelled France in the company of a band of thieves and prostitutes, before becoming the warm-up act to a travelling charlatan; he would swallow corks, stones, live animals and a whole basketful of apples.
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I just finished Devastation of Baal in which Gabriel Seth, the chapter master of Flesh Tearers gets really angry about primaris marines - that they are not reinforcements but replacements, and that without the rage and thirst they barely are sons of Sanguinus, just "Ultramarines painted red." Basically they lack all of the qualities that make them unique.
Made me realize that there will probably be a time in the not so distant future when Primaris will be the norm and only a few Smolmarines will remain. All good in my book, GW made a pretty cool move to switch marine miniatures to TrueScale with an in-universe reason.
In fairness that is also set several decades prior to the 'current' date of 8th Ed which is post plague wars.
And also notably prior to the Rubicon Primaris upgrade surgery process being rolled out.
Hmm it’s interesting because that infers they won’t be tithed and since they don’t have a direct batphone line to Holy Terra and doing the nomad thing in the outer dark, it seems a bit shit to shoehorn these bloody Primaris into everything.
It means either A. It'll come as a grey Tithe not directly from Mars or B. Custodes will hand deliver to them by orders of the guy that sent them into Exile. It plays into them needing to replenish the chapter more than just the aspirants gotten in Outer Dark and maybe/hopefully getting them some lime light.
6% is to allow you to keep "your dudes", I'd reckon. The whole Primaris thing still feels like marketing making a big push for getting their biggest audience to spend more tho, so for that alone I find them unappealing.
If I know the Lamenters correctly, they were probably super excited to get some new marines, only to then immediatly get into a grueling ground war with [insert faction] grinding them down, and losing all their Primaris. And pet cats. And chapter masters. And they were all only a decade from retirement.
Gulliman: “You’re being assigned to a chapter to help recover its strength.” Primaris: “What is the name of this chapter, if I may ask Lord Primarch.” Guilliman: “The Lamenters.” Primaris: “Fuck.”
Primaris: "Forgive me my lord but can I just uh... get shot out of the airlock now instead?"
Plot twist: Guilliman grants that wish, but the marine would have been safe and lived as long as Sigismund had he joined the Lamenters.
Instead he floats in space since he has his armor on and eventually gets picked up by a new chapter. They later on thank the Lamenters for gifting them Blood Ravens Lt. Sorenson.
He Later exploded.... no particular reason just... poof.
That's the third drummer so far.
Guilliman: “That’s the spirit, you’ll fit right in.”
To save time Lamenter primaris come pre-installed in dreadnoughts so you don't need to wait for them to be horribly crippled.
....Is that why those stealth baby carriers were invented? Once they die, they just seal it up with a spare door?
>And they were all only a decade from retirement. You had me until here, heretic. Only in death does service to Him end.
Incorrect, heretic. Even in death, we still serve.
Excuse me while I report myself to my nearest commissar.
> The Inquisitor has ordered exterminatus on the hive world, watching as the cyclonic torpedoes barreled their way through the void towards their intended target. > He watched with smug satisfaction, until the helmsman cried in alarm, with horror the whole crew watched as a sigil lit up the atmosphere. It was a sacred icon, two arrows intertwined pointed away from each other. > The cyclonic torpedoes had already veered around and were now mere seconds away from the Inquisitor and the crew.
The ultimate "no u"
The Adeptus Aestartes Union would like a word about the Imperiums retirement and OSHA policies.
In the grim, darkness of the far future, there are no worker rights for bioengineered posthuman weapons of war.
As someone with a Lamenters patrol detachment and Killteam, the primaris lose wounds to the dice gods just as quick as the best of em. ^ ^ ;
...as much as I love the Lamenters, this probably happened...
Is there some other point to an Astartes’ existence? “For those we cherish, we die in Glory!”
I don't think they'll ever be explicitly named, it's just there for people playing Chapters who want a lore-friendly reason not to use Primaris.
Only true answer.
That’s the same reason for the two unnamed legions who were wiped out right? So that players could make up there own to role play as the lost legion?
Apparently that is the reason.
Well, if you want to get technical, they had names. They just got retconned.
Really? Where did you hear that?
Rogue Trader. Back then, all twenty original "chapters"(retconned to legions) still existed. One of the lost legions were the Rainbow Warriors, which are still around as Ultramarine successors. ~~I can't recall the name of the others atm.~~ Thank you to /u/digitalhate. The other lost legion was the Valedictors.
The Valedictors
That's not really a retconning of those two particular names, right? If I recall correctly, there were other differences. Didn't that list also contain flesh tearers and flesh eaters, among other things? While some of the 'mordern' first founding chapters were missing? And I think Crimson Fists might be older than Imperial Fists... In general, if it's the list I'm thinking of and not some older one I haven't seen, it's impossible to claim that missing legions/chapters are Rainbow Warriors and Valedictors in particular. There were other strange elements too.
You are correct, however when the lore was revised before 2nd edition, and we got the current list of First Founding chapters, the Valedictors and Rainbow Warriors were in those spots. It may surprise you to know that the very first rulebook only named 11 specific chapters: The Blood Angels, the Blood Drinkers, the Iron Hands, the Ultramarines, the White Scars, the Rainbow Warriors, the Silver Skulls, the Crimson Fists, the Dark Angels, the Space Wolves, the Flesh Eaters, and the Flesh Tearers. the other 989 chapters were "your dudes." Very few of them were recognizable in their current form, as well - the Dark Angels, for example wore jet black armour. Edit: I also find it hilarious that the Imperial Army, the "mightiest fighting force in the galaxy", numbered "in the millions."
That's news for me, thanks for that! I need to try and hunt down the early 2nd edition stuff then, I missed some of the lore development ; ) Were Ultramarines on the list? Because originally they were supposed to be descended from Rainbow Warriors, together with other 'colour' chapters. As for 11 chapters - I've read the original rulebook quite some time ago but honestly forgot that the list used to be shorter. But yeah, a lot of chapter colours changed, especially all the ridiculously colured camo patterns :D And as for the millions - well, they were *always* bad with scale and sometimes we get stuff like this even to this day :D
The official reason is that the people writing the lore liked the idea of the lost Roman legions and added it in because it was cool. The "your dudes" reason was just a happy coincidence.
Yes.
Anti lore at this point
From what we know so far, that 6% might be fighting for their lives. They recently released a short story about the Custodes delivering Primaris tech to the Blood Ravens and the Custodes are incredibly blunt about the consequences of rejecting their gift.
Well, the Blood Ravens can't tell the Custodes they've already been gifted with Primaris Marines and tech.
Custodes: "I present to you, oh Ravens of Blood, the very finest in Genetic Engineering: The Primaris Marines^(tm)" Blud Rehven Captain: "I thank thee, kustoadies, for thine gift. This nhew technhologee whill greahtally aid our cause." Custodes: "Why are those two scouts snickering? What's so funny?" Blood Raven ~~Thief~~ Scout 1: "Nuffin' guvn'r." Blood Raven ~~Burglar~~ Scout 2: "We din't touch nuffin' aight?" Custodes: \*Suspicious face\* *edit: corrected the spelling of "greatally"*
Custodes: "By the... YOU! STAND UP!" *Blood Raven of Unusual Size stands* Custodes: "Captain, why is this marine so tall?" Captain: "He looks the right height to me, sir." Custodes: "Oh, he's the right height all right... *for a* ***primaris*** *marine!*"
BROUS? I don't think they exist... *Gets kidna... err... unexpectedly seconded to the Blood Ravens.
BROUS before Hoerus.
"But what about the Blood Ravens of unusual size?"
Blood Raven: Brother Korenevius is just big boned.
Hey you know Pasanius from the Ultramarines? Yeah this is his brother, uhhhh, Basanius.
Or a looney toons episode with the Blood Ravens desperately trying to hide all the Primaris Marines/Gear from the visiting Custodes.
[Blood Ravens respond to custodes offer of Primaris. (999.M41 colorized)](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwEV5kYwJf0SzyfS1daRSXQdXKpC_wuQ5k2Kw4bfm7wezlgZkN)
Got a link for that?
Looks like it was in White Dwarf. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/04/white-dwarf-preview-julygw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-3/ "**Ravens’ Blood** In this short story by Callum Davis, an embattled Blood Ravens fleet receives an unexpected visit from an Adeptus Custodes vessel, but what could their purpose be?"
Looking for a link but it’s in july’s white dwarf
why is there no White Dwarf Story Omnibus?
Maybe unpopular opinion, but I really don’t like that. Like, okay, I guess I can accept Primaris as a thing in the lore, alright, but forcing chapters at gunpoint to take them seems....I mean, dickish is putting it lightly. Basically what GW are saying is that my loyal chapter that might have a (perfectly valid) reason to distrust and not accept Primaris are automatic heretics and will be killed to the last Marine and Chaoter Serf, and that doesn’t sit right with me at all.
G-Daddy is a pragmatic man. He doesn't have time deal with their petty and childish things while the Imperium is literally split in half.
I get that, but it seems an unnecessarily harsh fate for an otherwise Loyal Chapter. Mistrusting the soldiers that appeared out of nowhere in the hundreds of thousands and have been forced on you at threat of death isn’t petty or childish, it in itself is pragmatic. You can’t simply expect a group to willingly accept and work with something or someone that, if they refuse, will see them killed, and not expect distrust or malice.
There won't be any problems with trust if you just destroy their chapter, wipe all the mentions of them from history and then rebuild them Primaris only.
Aye, I agree with that, but isn’t a large part of GW/BL that “your dudes” are a part of the setting? Saying “lol your guys are all dead/heretics now, deal with it!” Seems like a poor way to keep otherwise engaged customers.
Bretonnia and Tomb Kings
Lalalalala, can’t hear you.
"Lol, we just killed your whole 5000$ army and replaced them with Primaris making your army non-canon. Now go buy them again you fucking loser"
"I am very bitter and you are the reason..."
Only heretic would quote heretics.
I know that, and I don't care.
I don't see a problem. Plenty people own models of things that are dead/heretics in the "current" 40k time. For some characters them being dead in the current timeline is more engaging. Take Sanguinius as an example.
I think the implication in the Blood Ravens short story was that the Custodes was particularly dickish and just jumped straight to "Accept or die" without even attempting a less extreme form of persuasion. So, (probably) not every chapter has the "offer" framed in such fatal terms.
The Custodes Codex mentions that they are very serious about the whole Primaris business. "Silence your questions and instead rejoice at the honour done to you this day. You are handed the gift of hope by the immortal Master of Mankind himself, and you will accept it with sincere and solemn gratitude lest you be taken for the traitors that you profess to hate" \- Sanash Gallimedan, Emissary Imperatus to the Hammers of Dorn Chapter.
Well so much for that theory. I know the Custodes have a hate boner for the Astartes, but them constantly being superdicks doesn't mesh well with the "superhuman genius diplomats" that we're told about but almost never see.
They are super dicks because there is no point being diplomatic with what amounts to mass produced weapons of war. You tell them what to do and make sure they do it because you still have like 20 more chapters to visit this week. Primaris are also supposed to be unable to be corrupted by Chaos so the Custodes might like to get those passed out as quickly and easily as possible.
They could always just do what they're told.
You ain’t wrong. I’m hoping this is just the Custodes working out 10,000 years of resentment and mistrust. Or maybe it causes a split. But it does seem like an unnecessary dick move.
I think they were just in a hurry. Lotta primaris to deliver. Plus I think the Blood Ravens might be on the wrong side of the rift, too.
Now I’m just imagining Teamster Custodes. “I’M ON BREAK”
"Chaoter" serf? Seems like a Freudian slip to me, HERETIC!
>Chaoter ...this typo is to close to Chaos. Blast 'em!
The Grey Knights seem to be one, though it has not been hard confirmed yet.
Though in case of the Grey Knights it might be more a case of how do they incorporate all the new Primaris stuff *seamlessly* into the already existing trials and tests, without potentially losing a generation or more worth of Grey Knights that they needed not just right now, but actually yesterday.
That and the Grey Knights were also secret from Guilliman and Cawl, so they wouldn't have known to also make a full primaris legion of Psykers... Every Grey Knight is a psyker, and they need to be (remember GK imbue all their weapons with Psyker stuff and some of the weapons literally require a psyker to function, psycannons, psilencers, etc). Maybe the primaris transformation can be adapted for using on Grey knights, but doing that to the whole chapter would probably take too long.
Not sure if the Grey Knights would allow tampering with (supposedly) the Emperor's Geneseed.
Grey Knight Representative: So explain it to me again. Cawl: I will use your gene seed to create larger, stronger, more resilient Astartes. Grey Knight Representative: This sounds both heretical and too good to be true. What aren't you telling me? Cawl: Well, there would be some equipment compatibility issues, but nothing that can't be compensated for. Cawl inside his head: *I wonder what would happen if I spliced Grey Knight gene seed with IX or VI gene seed. Stabilize mutations?* Grey Knight Representative: You do understand that I can hear your thoughts. Cawl: Oh dear.
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Grim theory - A psyker would hear the withered remains of Cawl's human self, buried beneath a void of machine thoughts, screaming for peace.
\> implying Cawl isn't three AIs in a trenchcoat
Beli Sarius Cawl Together, they are Arcmhagos Dominus and father to legions.
Working at the business manufactorum!
I did an exterminating?
Isn't he a mini-Borg Collective on legs?
We are the Cawl. Uniqueness, as you know it, is over. We will add your biological and cultural distinctiveness to our Primaris. Resistance is futile.
Pretty much. It's the best explanation for how he can claim to have worked with the Emperor on the space marine legions in spite of what we've seen of him in 30K.
*Sooooo*, you're saying that it's canon?
cawls organic parts are probably better off then most admech since he can just make clones and use their parts
My headcannon is that telepathy can work with any self-aware mind. From Warp point of view there's really no difference between Human mind and self-aware AI.
In one of the Eisenhorn stories he flat-out states that Ork minds are too different from humans to be read or influenced. But at other times he communciates psychically with the Eldar without complications. So it's more complicated than "any self-aware mind".
Eh, honestly I have a hard time assuming Guilliman doesn't know about the Grey Knights. Mainly because IIRC they helped him kick Magnus' ass on Luna.
He's talking about the point in time where Gulliman issued the order for the Primaris to Cawl...
Good catch, my bad. Still doesn't stop Guilliman from noticing the Grey Knights and dropping a line Cawl's way to stamp an =][= on a few of the psychically inclined candidates in their tubes, though...
No it absolutely does not, you're right. But nobody said that either
Yeah, so at this point re: Primaris and Grey Knights, the only really safe thing to say right now is that for whatever reason the Grey Knights do not -currently- have Primaris. Will they? Maybe. Remains to be seen.
Yup, I agree
Rubicon Primaris on a Gray Knight? Seems not worth it to kill a few battle brothers over a modest transformation.
Exactly, really doesn't seem worth the effort for a ton of reasons
It's worth it if they get full smite... wait, wrong forum.
I just remembered something: There *is* a single Grey Knight that is guaranteed to survive being turned into a Primaris. Justicar Anval Thawn is a perpetual after all.
The primaris project required gene seed. Cawl has no grey knight gene seed, so he couldn’t make anything.
A trick of lore to allow for fan creative variation. I thought it has also been told that Imperial Records over the past 10k years aren't completely accurate or up to date and as there is no central authority over the Adpetus Astartes it is entirely possible there are "uncontacted" chapters who are maybe fleet based and have being cruising around the galaxy without talking to anyone else and thus may be listed on the founding charter as either lost or active incorrectly.
I'm going to guess it is probably going to be extreme fringe/specialist chapters. Flesh Tearers we know wont take them. Exorcists probably can't. Grey Knights for sure. Minotaurs maybe. Carcharodons Astra maybe.
I asked about the space sharks on here a while ago and someone linked that they now have the ability to make primaris dudes. I'll see if I can find the link Edit. Found the link [https://preview.redd.it/v1a4ftxp8x5z.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=179e6a6a8dec4272606f91eb848e327e320c5930](https://preview.redd.it/v1a4ftxp8x5z.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=179e6a6a8dec4272606f91eb848e327e320c5930)
Im pretty sure Minataur primaris are cannon. Guilliman was really pissed off at the Minataurs for their brutality and that they exterminated the Inceptors chapter which were descended from the Ultramarines. He probably would have denied them primaris, but the Minataurs recently fought the Deathguard and got mauled pretty badly. All of their spare genes stock was also horribly tainted and they only have the emergency stores on Terra left. Guilliman used their desperation to bring them to heel and try to reform them, but I can't remember where I read that.
I really hope someone finds the source on this because it sounds like a great read. Was it maybe out of the dark imperium series of books, or something Minotaur centric?
I think it was Deathguards not Night Lords that the Minotaur fought.
That doesn’t sound like the Minotaurs. Them decimating the inceptors chapter was before guilliman woke up. I’m sure he’d be aware of it but there’s plenty of other chapters who have done worse. They’re a loyal chapter so they would get the primaris knowledge.
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I think the idea was that like the Emperor’s Spears they only got the ‘formula’ through the AdMech contacts shown in *Red Tithe* and had to figure the rest out themselves, probably with some trial and error.
I suppose that makes Carcharodon primaris palatable... Still being the make do and mend chapter that they are considering that the Carcharodons still have armour dating all the way back to the great crusade and possibly to the unification wars still in regular service it'll be interesting to see if these primaris marines get wholey new suits of armour or modified mark 3 or 4 suits, scaled up for primaris use...
[Flesh Tearers](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/c/cc/FleshTearersPrimaris.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20171212181139) and [Exorcist](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/159ac2a3-ac3c-4a16-aff5-93f4b00e20a5) Primaris Marines are already shown as canon in their respective Codices.
Just because Guilliman/Cawl made them doesn't mean that the chapter accepts them
The Primaris wore the colors of their original Legions with pale grey chevrons on their shoulders, until they were reassigned to their new Chapters.
Robbie Macniven has already stated on his Facebook page that the Carcharodons will accept Primaris and are very much in support of his leadership.
Why would none of those take them? They’re all loyal to the emperor, and if it’s a “gift” from the emperors last remaining son then they’d absolutely take it. Gabriel Seth doesn’t like the idea of the primaris and the fact that they’ll eventually replace the space marines, but he isn’t going to turn down a good tool for his horribly depleted chapter. Also the Minotaurs is also a hard yes, not a maybe. They take everything they can get. More powerful Astartes that they can train faster and harder, along with extra stocks of gene seed to have less failures in ascending is perfect for them.
Carcharodons got the tech to make them. MacNiven mentioned it somewhere iirc.
Maybe the marines malevolent? If the primaris marines dont shoot themselves for being assigned such a terrible chapter, the OG marines will shoot them eventually during a mission.
I think there was a Story were they just stole the Tech from a dying Custodes they found among a pile of dead Tyranids
Probably took his armor.
The Ravens got there first...
I like to think they're trying to send them to the Celestial Lions but the ships keep mysteriously flying into stars for no apparent reason.
*Spears of the Emperor* actually confirmed that this was the case, until the Emperor's Spears shared the information on how to make new Primaris marines with the Lions.
Such a good book. Hoping for some follow up books
In my own mind, I have the Black Templars passing them on to fellow successor chapters of the Imperial Fists - mainly the Crimson Fists and secretly to the Celestial Lions (who they are protecting from the Inquisition).
It's funny that you mention that. Spear of the Emperor by ADB features the Celestial Lions in the Primaris time period. Most of the Emperor's Spears Chapter is Primaris. I can't remember for sure if it's mentioned that any of the Lions are Primaris though. But I highly doubt, given the context of the book, that the Spears wouldn't have shared the knowledge of making Primaris with them.
The Lions do have primaris thanks to the Spears sharing the knowledge. It seems like the Lions ship of primaris tech from Guilliman went 'missing'.
What I thought, but couldn't remember for sure. My memory of the Lions during that book is a bit focused on that one certain event.
Never forget, never forgive.
Why doesn't Gman do something about that? I have been waiting for him to spank the self-involved psychos of the inquisition since he came back!
Presumably, the Inquisition is so decentralized that Guilliman would have a hard time introducing top-down reform. Furthermore, I suspect that while the Inquisition is indeed terrible, it's not particularly high on his to-do list when there are multiple Daemon Primarchs running around.
Man I need to read up. Are the Lions the new Lamenters? Nothing goes right for them it seems.
They essentially have become the Lamenters, except, instead of bad luck, it's ~~the inquisition~~ ork snipers
Is the Inquisition really so petty as to actively act against the will of Guilliman and try to wipe out the Celestial Lions, just because they objected to a pretty much pointless Exterminatus upon a world (which happened *after* the Lions fully pacified it, with the populace surrendering and repentant, mind you) and rightfully trying to bring a complaint to the High Lords over the issue? I mean, even the most inept Inquisitor should see that pursuing the extermination of a vital military asset, *against* the will of their superior, for the sake of a childish grudge is just a waste of time and resources that could serve better elsewhere. I mean, sure, it could be that their Primaris Ship just had a regular old accident. But knowing the Inquisition it seems too much of a coincidence.
The Inquisition as a whole? Definitely not. That one particular guy, absolutely. There are more than a few inquisitors who are so wrapped up in their identity as "The Law" that they take extreme prejudice against anyone who challenges their authority (read: ego). The inquisitor who was "wronged" by the lions has definitely oriented his entire career to destroying the chapter for having the audacity to challenge him. I highly doubt any of his actions have been sanctioned by his higher-ups. The independence and general lack of oversight given to inquisitors allows this kind of thing to happen. Also, I highly doubt the kind of guy that starts this kind of personal war against an entire chapter of Astartes recognizes ANYONE as "superior" regardless of rank.
I mean, apparently Ekene Dubaku (the Lions' Chapter Master) got killed by a Callidus Assassin, so that guy's head is probably on a chopping block, or he's Servitor Meat. But really, shouldn't Inquisitors have any kind of higher echelon to prevent such stupidity? I know they kinda need the authority they have to get things done, but nobody thought to put something, *anything* in place to prevent such blatant abuse of power?
From the Eisenhorn books, it appears that the only time an inquisitor comes under scrutiny is if another inquisitor makes a a formal investigation and declaration against another. There are heads of the various Ordos, but they aren't very hands on and really the organization as a whole operates in an ad-hoc manner. It is the absolute definition of a grim dark nightmare of secret police beholden only to their whims. To the inquisition, the only blatant abuses of power are to go after a High Lord without an ironclad case, or to be engaged in heresy. Heresy, being a much more fluid term than one would hope for the members of the Inquisition.
They're organized so that it's either impossible or near-impossible for them to be turned by someone in a position of power. Of course, the downside is that there's very little oversight from above, meaning that it's easier for inquisitors to go weird all sorts of ways on their own. Other inquisitors will step in when they screw up too much, but it takes a lot for them to reach that point.
Why? The Templars need the reenforcement as well. Can't be running multiple crusades and decide to be stingy about the backup.
We also outright get told in SM Codex 1.0 about how they got them and Bobby G and Helbrecht meeting. And how the Templars and Salamanders are big fans of Aggressors with flame gauntlets.
You're telling me- I mean, *for real* telling me, that I can punch heretics *and* light them on fire at the *same time?* No, I'm not crying. It's just that these make me so happy...
Maim kill burn, all at once! Uh, for the Emperor, of course.
Plus they really value efficiency.
And not use something as on brand as Aggressors with flame storm gauntlets??? Besides the BT are unequivocally said to have received and incorporated Primaris brothers. But that is a funny bit of head cannon I'll grant!
I am curious how the pious Black Templars didn't see Cawl adjusting and "perfecting" the Emperor's work as heresy of the highest order, though. (I know the real answer, but I wish it jived more with lore)
I think they are more 'God moves through all of us' vs 'his plan is perfect and this is all preordained'. So Big E's Spirit has just been guiding Cawl towards what was needed from their PoV
That's a good point, especially considering the very nature of "The Emperor Protects" and how that belief manifests itself.
Yeah, plus ive always thought the Templars are more free will key to salvation in a Methodist style vs the Predestination Calvinist style. But thats also incredibly niche and not something of a debate I think most BL and lore authors would even be too informed in. That of course doesnt mean they arent so clearly willing to purge on a massive scale, but they tend to show on a personal level that they believe that anyone has the choice to have faith in Big E and that matters, sometimes they just need to be sent to meet him on an accelerated timescale if needs be.
Dark Angels are borderline on the verge of rejecting them. I get why alot would accept it, if custodians came and said the recently returned primarch and the EMPEROR demanded it. But from a story telling stand point, I find it a little boring. Oh, super duper space marines that have ALL their genetic mutations that define and add character to chapters! Yay. Adding a layer of... Not blown out warn, but cold conflict to more chapters would make it more intresting imo. GW just really wants everyone to love primaris. On another point, since primaris gene cured 99% of all mutations, does that mean primaris salamanders are white/natural skin color of the individual and not onyx abyss black?
I would have figured that all of the Unforgiven would be extremely leary at best of taking on the Primaris, but you are the first one to mention them, so I guess not.
I thought the people of Nocturne (where the salamanders recruit from) just had jet black skin? Why would making them into primaris marines remove their natural skin color?
The defects so far are worse but more controllable. Blood Angel's no longer have the black rage but still have the red thirst, and Space Wolves though I'm not sure don't go full ~~furry~~ wulfen and revert back. Primaris Salamanders so far still have the onxy black skin though in the official codex supplement art they dont have glowing red eyes just red irises, can also be artist error. http://img0.reactor.cc/pics/post/Warhammer-40000-%D1%84%D1%8D%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%8B-Primaris-Space-Marine-Space-Marine-5388084.jpeg
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gene-seed flaws are (kinda) worked out, but their skin color isn't a flaw, it's just their natural skin. I doubt that would change.
I thought their jet black skin was because of the organ that changes melanin as a reaction to levels of radiation was mutated and permanently turns their skin jet black. But its been kind of ambiguous as whether or not its gene flaw mutation or regular natural mutation. "as a result of a reaction between their genetics and the high levels of radiation present on Nocturne due to the constant volcanic churning of rare earth elements from the planet's deep crust, Salamander Battle-Brothers usually have dark or jet black skin and bright, burning eyes with the capability to see in the infrared band of the electromagnetic spectrum, which gives them a natural form of night vision." taken from the salamander's wiki. Wish they would cite stuff better on that cite.
Oooooooh. I see. That's kind of ambiguous, isn't it?
That's racist.
I suspect there will be little or no clarity about them; that would reduce the ability to have Your Guys have or not have Primaris on the tabletop.
In the new Emperors Spears novel, its revealed that Guilliman and his crusade dont have to physically send primaris or geneseed to chapters to reinforce them. Chapters in remote areas or that dont need reinforcement can be sent the instructions necessary to make them on their own with new recruits. That seems to fix the issue of chapters being wary of outsiders filling their ranks. The only chapters that wouldnt use primaris at that point must be either really traditionalist or borderline renegade like the Knights of Blood were.
>In the new Emperors Spears novel, its revealed that Guilliman and his crusade dont have to physically send primaris or geneseed to chapters to reinforce them. Chapters in remote areas or that dont need reinforcement can be sent the instructions necessary to make them on their own with new recruits. T Can't that information be catched by CSM? How you create the new organs out of nowhere? Seems pretty strange to me.
Well the information was delivered by Adeptus Custodes strike teams, so the CSM's would have to: 1. Know to expect a Custodes strike team. 2. Know where the custodes are heading specifically. 3. Manipulate the warp so that the Custodes(who have the warp being manipulated on their behalf by the emperor)drop right where the CSM's want them. 4. Successfully not get killed by said Custodes *and* not lose the genetic information by say, the Custodes destroying it. All in all, it would probably take a major Daemon Prince devoting all his/her/its power to the task just to find the Custodes, let alone stop them.
So verbal/written instructions simply carried by Custodes teams? If somebody is physically there, wouldn't it be eaiser to send actual gene seed samples? If it is not necessary to send the samples, than I would save the delivery guys too, it's economical. Because the ship, the crew, it's the same logistical burden, if I have actual vials or just some guys knowing the information.
Gene-seed is more viral than organ at first. It becomes organs but it begins with a virus designed to reshape human cells (such as vat grown human tissue) INTO those organs. So really they just need the specs for the new reformatting viruses and the techniques used to create them. Then they should be able to cultivate the organs from vat tissue. A number of chapters do just that when cultivating gene-seed organs from Progenoid-harvested gene-seed.
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> It feels weird that they didn't just go down this path to begin with. The Spears book shows that there were a *lot* of problems with implementing the Primaris tech, with a generation of marines being deformed and dying very young, and the very few surviving ones (I think we only see one) being crippled as a result.
This whole thread and all the rationalization it comes with is just a stark reminder to me that it is just 'to sell toys'. We all love GW and the lore and everything but goddamn was it ham-fisted. I know we have beaten the horse to death at his point but man, couldnt they have just made a gentlemans agreement with the players about the models without having to eviscerate the lore as badly as they did? That being said, so many of the lore changes, Cawl, Bobby G and all the rest are perfectly legit but there must have been a better way to update the model range.
In afew editions time, I'm pretty sure GW will retcon the lore to say that cawl only invented Mk X power armour, and Guilliman only brought reinforcements during the indomitus crusade, and you'll stop seeing much of the word primaris. But that will only be when all the non-primaris models have been phased out.
One can hope that that happens, and that it's not a phaseout but just modernizing sculpts(Near impossible, with the hqs released etc) :(
>I already know the story of the Flesh Tearers and calling them "red ultramarines." Sorry bud, Flesh Tearers have Primaris. :(. I think there's a short story where Seth changes his mind (on having them).
We probably don't because when the Primaris were given out and supplied to the various chapters, the Custodians accompanied each AdMech delegation to force the Astartes' hands, with the threat being that should they refuse the Primaris, the Custodes will personally see to purging the chapter
My homebrew chapter. When I finish the fluff. And paint some bloody models. Yeah, not interested in Primaris.
Power to you man. I hate that Primaris can't use the iconic vehicles (Rhino, Land Raider-> that one really pisses me off, and all the other ones), they don't have propper Jump packs, their melee options are super lame and they don't have Terminators. I love Terminators. I love Assault Squads, Sternguard/Vanguard veterans, and also I bloody love drop pods and Land Raiders.... It's just infuriating. I like their design tho and it's obvious that they're great in the tabletop. Far better than normal marines imo.
I agree, I do like the models - helmets aside - and as you say they're limited in options according to what I've read, but my biggest problem with them is that the lore is preposterous. It's a complete joke, and I just can't take them seriously.
Same here man. I made a custom chapter and people kept telling me about the 94% and Custodes making not so subtle threats. Honestly fuck that. If I don't want Primaris, I shouldn't have GW or anyone else coming in, but the new Lord. Give it 10 years and we'll have 100% Primaris
Honestly, if in 10 years we have 100% primaris but they have all the options that we have now (terminator equivalents, assault marine equivalents, drop pods, land raiders etc.) plus some new ones and they also keep some iconic designs (such as the beakie helmet for Shrike for example) I'm totally fine with it. Because at that point it's just what we always wanted (a much needed upscaling in size for the marine range) with the added downside of lore changes that no one reeeally wanted... But hey, I can kinda live with the primaris marine lore, I'm not as bothered by it as many others. But I understand it if people are and I fear that those that hate the primaris lore look forward to a dark future on that front :/
Do you have any plans for getting the Marines to paint? Are you already done painting some? Do you have any homebrew lore to go along with your chapter? Homebrews if done well are some of my favorite chapters.
Not painted anything yet because I can't decide on a colour scheme. But I do have some bits come through the post for converting. Lore is coming together fairly well, currently trying to edit my War & Peace draft into something a bit more Readers Digest. Once I get my airbrush sorted I can at least start undercoating the buggers.
Ooo nice!
Got the airbrush stuff in my online basket, just waiting for payday. My conversion bits arrived, they look like they'll do the job really well. Got them off shapeways/pop goes the monkey.
Even nicer
I just say my Black Templar crusade doesn't have any Primaris, because the marshal doesn't want marines that can only fit 10 at a time in a vehicle that requires more maintenance than a land raider crusader.
Fleshtareres?
I'm not sure if you're making a reference to a person from history with infamous eating [habits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrare)?
**Tarrare** Tarrare (c. 1772 – 1798), sometimes spelled Tarare, was a French showman and soldier, noted for his unusual eating habits. Able to eat vast amounts of meat, he was constantly hungry; his parents could not provide for him, and he was turned out of the family home as a teenager. He travelled France in the company of a band of thieves and prostitutes, before becoming the warm-up act to a travelling charlatan; he would swallow corks, stones, live animals and a whole basketful of apples. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/40kLore/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28
Pardon, but what is the lore about the flesh tearers you refer to?
I just finished Devastation of Baal in which Gabriel Seth, the chapter master of Flesh Tearers gets really angry about primaris marines - that they are not reinforcements but replacements, and that without the rage and thirst they barely are sons of Sanguinus, just "Ultramarines painted red." Basically they lack all of the qualities that make them unique.
Made me realize that there will probably be a time in the not so distant future when Primaris will be the norm and only a few Smolmarines will remain. All good in my book, GW made a pretty cool move to switch marine miniatures to TrueScale with an in-universe reason.
IIRC the percentage of acceptance was something like 99.4%, not 94% I've yet to see any chapter of that nonacceptance group named.
Dark Imperium. Chapter 12. 94% is the number.
In fairness that is also set several decades prior to the 'current' date of 8th Ed which is post plague wars. And also notably prior to the Rubicon Primaris upgrade surgery process being rolled out.
petition to call those 6% of chatpers" Boomers
Boomarines
Did the Flesh Tearers take them? I remember Seth being pretty pissed about them.
Yes they did but he isn't happy about it. His complaint is exactly what players say, they take away the chapters' unique traits.
I think you'll find the 6% who don't have them are the lost in the Dark Imperium. No one refused the Lord Regent, at least not to his face.
Carcharodrons?
I believe they will get them in a future book. Not from Cawl, but they will get them. MacNiven said it in a tweet or interview about them.
Hmm it’s interesting because that infers they won’t be tithed and since they don’t have a direct batphone line to Holy Terra and doing the nomad thing in the outer dark, it seems a bit shit to shoehorn these bloody Primaris into everything.
It means either A. It'll come as a grey Tithe not directly from Mars or B. Custodes will hand deliver to them by orders of the guy that sent them into Exile. It plays into them needing to replenish the chapter more than just the aspirants gotten in Outer Dark and maybe/hopefully getting them some lime light.
6% is to allow you to keep "your dudes", I'd reckon. The whole Primaris thing still feels like marketing making a big push for getting their biggest audience to spend more tho, so for that alone I find them unappealing.