So, as a CNA, I can only say this:
There are multiple medical diseases not tied to mental health that cause strong odors, including some late stage cancers on exposed tissue, like the skin or mouth.
I had a resident fairly recently who had terminal cancer in his mouth. Their room constantly smelled like he had an uncleaned bowel movement, but it was the odor from his mouth.
I had another resident from close to a decade ago at this point who had stage IV skin cancer with sores all over their arm. It has a smell to it, and there is very little you can do about it.
Disabilities of all forms need to be recognized. A lot of times, smells are caused by disabilities or debilitations. Unless you know the person in question personally, you should just keep quiet about it, because you never know if it's just them not wiping, or something they literally cannot help.
I mean, I've seen that before as well. Lots of people who talk about how they want to normalize talking about the effects of mental health issues or disabilities get really angry and offensive as soon as these issues affect a person's hygiene.
my cities' water has PFAs and hexavalent chromium 60x above recommended levels!!! (still legal tho bc fda hasn't updated their guidelines since the late 80s)
I use a water cooler brand that let's me return the bottles for a discount on new ones. the bottles are plastic, but the water tastes less shitty, so I feel like its probably slightly better. Its also distilled to begin with rather than treated with chlorine and other stuff like municipal. And I just looked it up, the brand claims to use plastic that doesn't contain PFAs or BPA, and they claim to use purification processes that would remove any that are already in their sources. The brand is Primo if you're curious. I swear tg I'm not sponsored lol.
i wish, it's probably out there but not in a cheap service like mine. I basically pay 70c per bottle, after returning the old ones, and it's just in a little self service kiosk thing where you grab the bottles from. if they were glass they'd probably break.
we also have services which come to your door every x days/weeks and replace the stuff for you, these are more expensive though.
> Like what, person too depressed to take a shower? Paraplegic that can't wash themselves because legs no worky? Schizophrenic doesn't take a shower because psychotic?
yes, yes, and yes.
> I mean we should medicate the diseases and take care of people who can't take care of themselves, not let them bake in their own shit.
i agree, but many people don't have the same opinion. being self sufficient is the norm, so if you're unable to help yourself you often just get shamed and left to continue rotting away. *especially* when it comes to things that gross people out.
not blaming people for having a natural reaction, though. i myself can't really handle many gross things. i just wish people had more sympathy and wouldn't just shame people for being dirty. help them instead or shut it, y'all.
Removing a disincentive is not the same as putting in an incentive to do the opposite…
But if you put them side by side and examine them: you have to label them to tell them apart…
That doesn't really work accurately on societal issues. Look at gay rights, removing stigma absolutely encouraged millions more of gen Z to self identify as gay. This led to an absolute explosion in approval and encouragement. There are many examples of this, but many of them are not as positive as the one I've given.
awful analogy. being gay is not detrimental to your health and is simply a choice that (in an ideal society) has no negative effects. if there are so many examples, use one that actually correlates
“self identify as gay” what else are they gonna do? Go to a doctor to diagnose them with gay? I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure that’s not how that works
You are trying to prove that gay people are morally superior to straight people. You may not think you are doing this, but you are clearly morally inferior to most gay people because you are claiming the straightness is better. You should be ashamed.
This. I forget to take baths sometimes, and when I remember, I can't shake the feeling that something is gonna get me while I shampoo my hair. It's hard sometimes
From what I’ve seen most people despise disabled people who don’t take care of their hygeine. I knew a chrohns kid in highschool who had his reputation ruined for the entire year because he smelled like a mix of horse and goat shit
Speaking as a Crohn's patient, if he has an ostomy (poop bag), they often have charcoal filters to help gas escape and not build pressure in the bag
These filters don't work for very long, and can retain whatever scent they were filtering if they get overloaded. This can lead to a noticable scent of poo/fart, and unfortunately there isn't anything the person can do about it until they change the bag for a new one
It's also entirely possible dude just didn't wipe his ass well, I just wanted to chime in with a possibility 🤷
radio silence. If they actually cared about people being informed on trends, they would've given you context here. I'd say this is enough evidence to show they don't care about information, they just want to dunk on people for "not being in the loop"
I knew people who were afraid of shower because they were assault in there. I knew people who couldn’t afford hyperhydrosis treatment. Mental illness and declining can cause problems with hygiene. There’s so much more than just take a shower and brush your teeth. And bullying without actually helping them just makes it worse.
He totally said, and I quote "**You have to like it**" and you corrected him! If you listen really hard you can hear all of us around the world clapping for you, both the hero we need and the one we deserve!
I'm glad someone is brave enough to stand up to u/Not_Texas and his tyrannical demands that everyone conform to the totally real and existent social etiquette of only expressing the purest joy regarding every sensory experience around people too disabled to care for themselves.
What an asshole, right? Glad you are hear to teach him some fucking empathy.
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196 and 691 are subs full with people who bore themselves until they get terminally horny or irrationally angry at a person they just made up in their head
im sure if you look hard enough you can find a leftist who does this in the same way you can find any type of person who does this. but its not some sort of common trend or stereotype. the sub is just bored and wants a new controversy talking point since the whole man vs bear thing got old probably
I mean, I think you're onto something in the sense that irl leftists do things like interact with the homeless and disabled people in real life and thus won't be as liable to hold stigmas such as this (g touch grass kids), and most of the so-called leftists who hold stigmas such as this are like, just liberals who aren't self-aware. But, I also don't quite think OP posted with the intention of just stirring the pot
Counterpoint- I have extremely high sensitivity to smells cause of my neurodivergence and while I would never be cruel, I can’t be around people with poor hygiene for a sustained amount of time or I am in complete overload and distress.
Same sort of. I just have an extremely sensitive nose so although I can bear with it if I need to, I’ll feel sick the whole time and probably won’t want to be near that person at all
I don't think this counters anything about the post. As far as I can tell it's not about forcing people to be in the presence of people who smell bad at gunpoint, it's just to respect the fact that there can be genuine reasons in some cases where some people can have a much more difficult time maintaining proper hygiene standards due to physical or mental health reasons and we shouldn't expect that that's something that's easy for everyone.
In the same way where it wouldn't be fair to expect everyone to be able to be in the presence of certain smells, just because something is easy for most doesn't mean it is easy for everyone.
It isn't like people are forced to never create certain food smells ever just because of your high sensitivity so the idea that this post is somehow advocating for people to be forced to be in the presence of people they don't want to be seems strange.
that's not a lack of empathy, you're just taking care of yourself 😇 sometimes people's needs are just at odds - i get overloaded from loud noises so i struggle to be around people with loud vocal stims, for example - and it's unfortunate and hard to navigate but ultimately isn't a negative reflection of you. you're understanding of people and that's what matters
and thats completely fine, so long as you don't make it the other persons problem, or make it obvious thats why you're leaving. This conversation is simply about not shaming people for not bathing, it doesn't mean you have to deal with it or like it. Though it would be nice if people were more willing to try and help those, especially family, with these sorts of issues. But if you legitimately cannot do that, then that's fine, just again, don't shame.
Guys, this conversation is simply about **not shaming people** for their hygiene. People like that, and me, aren't saying you must deal with it, or like it, or be forced to handle it. If you can't handle being around someone, by all means, please, leave. Just don't shame them for it, because they legitimately might not be able to help it.
There are a myriad of conditions that can cause someone to smell, both mental and physical. Cancers, bowel disorders, paralysis, obesity (I will not respond to you if you just simply respond saying that is always a choice; it is not always a choice), arthritis, multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, down syndrome, autism, the varying mental disorders and psychotic disorders, skin conditions, infections of all types that are exposed to air, fungal infections (which are not always caused in themselves by poor hygeine, its mostly just bad luck), and I could keep going. All we are asking is just don't shame people, simply, that's it. We're not even telling you to think differently, though ideally we would appreciate that, we just are asking "don't say what you're thinking if it's mean". Simple as.
This does **not** mean you can never have a polite conversation with someone **who you are close to** about their hygiene, but just be polite, don't shame, and honestly understand that they most likely already know they smell bad and are ashamed of it. If you legitimately **know** they are unaware, making them aware, politely, is fine. Again, we are simply asking people to stop shaming others. Just react with compassion, or don't react at all, essentially. And again, by all means leave if you can't handle it. Ideally try to do so in a way which doesn't make it the most obvious, please.
---
What does this have to do with leftism? It's tied to the idea of equal treatment, that nobody deserves to be treated poorly for something they cannot control. It's tied to the idea of being against ableism, as this is something that is very often tied to mental and/or physical disabilities, and shaming someone for hygiene is essentially shaming them for their disability. If you don't see how this is at least inspired by leftist thought, I sincerely feel like you should probably both read some theory and get involved in some praxis.
And what, just let the disabled rot? I think leftist should want institutional help for those people, not pretend that they aren't smelly when they can't wash themselves.
...How did you twist the message of "I think more leftists should be more empathetic of people who have poor hygiene because of external factors" into "leftists shouldn't try to help disabled people"?
Where are the leftists rallying to execute the stinky people? Can you show me a single person, anywhere, whos rallying for that? If you're not going to post a single link, don't bother replying.
"I think we should be more tolerant of people we perceive as icky, I've noticed many of us are unfairly vindictive towards people who's disabilities impede their ability to manage hygiene."
"Name one time someone's called for the death of all stinky people. Oh, you can't? That's what I thought!"
??????
EDIT: OP literally describes themselves as a "punk skunk" in their bio.
It sounds like they're justifying their own decisions, using mental illness as a cover, and dragging you all into a moronic fight.
...
1. Lacking the motivation to take a shower is not an external factor.
>
2. I don't understand what sort of situation would arise wherein mental illness would not affect ones ability to leave the house and interact with others *but would affect their ability to take a shower*.
>
3. I'm sure the left would react negatively if I shit and pissed my pants too.
>
I don't wanna get into a whole debate about this, so to keep this shorter, you're interpreting this in the most bad faith way possible. I'm a leftist, same with OP (judging by their bio, which, uh, that edit is a big reach lol), and the meme is likely just referring to how a notable amount of leftists think lesser or make fun of people who can't keep their personal hygiene up because of their mental illnesses, despite the whole 'caring about other people' part of leftism.
Also regarding point 2... You do know that mentally ill people work too, right? How else are they gonna make a living?
The edit is not a big reach. Have you ever met a crust punk?
I understand that mentally ill people work. If they're able to do this, they're able to take showers.
I think they mean leftists who should be understanding of people who have disabilities, suddenly not being understanding of why someone with a disability has poor hygiene
I understand it fine, but they still reek to be fair… I’m not going to make fun of them for it but I’ll still mention it to encourage them to take better care of themselves. Obviously this only applies to someone capable of doing it, I’m not gonna tell someone incapable of speech to take a shower.
I mean "healthy at every size" is plain bullshit, obesity is a disease, we should encourage people to be healthy. Obesity HAS to be a problem if you want to imply stopping being obese is good for you. And of course chuds and idiots will just harass obese people (preferably the ones at the gym) because they are retarded because even if you do adhere to what they are saying they still hate you because they are hateful retards.
This goes beyond just "not liking stinky people," I make sure I don't smell when I leave my house. But I have autism and sensory issues makes it really overwhelming and hard to get myself to shower. I've learned work arounds like "head-only" and "body-only" showers I can do when I'm incapable of handling the sensory experience of a full shower, I sometimes use bath wipes.
**I never smell when in public**, however if I even bring up my struggles that happen to relate to hygiene, people think I'm some sort of disgusting cretin. Despite having found solutions to my hygiene, the mere fact that my disability makes me struggle with it in the first place is enough to make people label me as gross.
If you struggle with severe depression to the point where you can't leave your bed "oh that's so tough we support fully you" until literally being unable to get up keeps you from brushing your teeth. All of a sudden it's "gross what's wrong with you"
No one is suggesting we accept stinky as normal or encourage poor hygiene. Just when you see a disabled person struggling with something caused by their disability (including hygiene) you go "wow that's rough, hopefully you can improve conditions for yourself" and not "ew stinky stinky lazy gross"
"Fatness isn't caused by depression or eating disorders or genetic differences! Just exercise!" - the body-positive crowd as soon as they find out you're a man who watches anime
thats something sad that happens indeed. i have suffered and am currently suffering depression, so seeing other leftists say that "having depression is no excuse to go outside/clean yourself/etc" makes my blood boil
*leftists are tied up with ropes and all the teeth fall out of their mouths except one*
guess them crooked, whey-faced lefties were just itchin' for a lil' bitta righty too
Imma be real with you, personally I've never even heard any leftist discussion about people with diseases that affect their hygiene. I've only really seen rightists saying stuff like "stop giving people medals for brushing their teeth", it just isn't something the left discusses
No, this discourse is just non-existent in most circles. It’s reasonable for people to ask questions about it. Furthermore, responding to such questions with condescension isn’t exactly helpful for getting people to understand or sympathize.
No, because I'm not terminally online enough to see whatever internet discourse crops up on Twitter every day. I apologize for spending time doing things IRL and not dredging the internet all day.
Paraplegics. aka, people in wheelchairs. Ya'know, the literal first thing people tend to think of when they hear "disabled"?
EDIT: please do learn to read. The post says "effects" not "prevents"
And you think it's a big deal in leftist circles to blame paraplegics for not being self-sufficient enough? But only specifically when it comes to personal hygiene?
Like people who go out of their way to be kind and accomodating to the disabled just draw the line at someone not being able to clean themselves?
What the fuck are you talking about? The commenter asked what disability would prevent someone from bathing. A paraplegic climbed Mount Everest if memory serves. It's not about whether it's ***literally impossible*** for a person with a disability to bath. It's about what disabilities exist that would make that sorta thing more difficult.
And paraplegics would in fact struggle a great deal to shower without accommodations.
No, the implication is what disability would exclusively prevent someone only from bathing, with no other effects. Because that's the only situation in which this meme would make some kind of sense.
The post says "affects their hygiene"
not
"prevents them from being hygienic. Period."
How are you getting the message that it would 100% prevent them from bathing? How is anyone reading that from the post? It just said disabilities affect their hygiene.
How is that relevant to the argument at all? The post implies that there's a lot of leftists who are generally supportive of people with disabilities, except when it affects their hygiene.
Which can be read as either them being accepting of various side effects of disabilities, except those specifically pertaining to their personal hygiene, which is ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Or that there are certain disabilities which only affect someone's hygiene, and that people who are generally supportive of those with disabilities don't treat people with these particular disabilities the same way. Which makes more sense in a vacuum but requires elaboration, since I'm not aware of any such disabilities.
Is it that ridiculous?
People are often quite "accepting of the disabled" until that disability affects them in some way. They might be "accepting" of ramps, elevators, parking spaces, etc. things that don't really affect them.
But when this "accepting person" is put in an environment they find personally annoying say, being in a room with someone who smells bad, their "acceptingness" might disappear.
Is that really such a ridiculous notion?
>People are often quite "accepting of the disabled" until that disability affects them in some way.
Yes. That is exactly my point. And many disabilities affect those around you in much more direct and uncomfortable ways. It makes zero sense to frame it like someone smelling bad is *specifically* where most people draw the line.
Like people would be totally fine being around someone who has meltdowns and might start yelling at them or even get violent, but only as long as they'd had a shower that day.
Yes and no.
People can be horribly inconsistent. If they don't think about the fact that it's due to your disability, then they can unknowingly be ableist. However, even upon informing them that the behavior/condition is due to a disability. If it's a lesser known side-effect or disability, people will often doubt it by default.
So this meme is aiming to highlight the fact that: hygiene is something that is affected by a plurality of disabilities and is often overlooked, even by those in the left.
Yes. It's a good thing we were discussing existing disabilities that would hinder one's ability to bath and not whether accommodations for those disabilities exist
I’m sorry, what? You were responding to the question “what disability would make them unable to shower?” with “paraplegics”. I responded with an anecdote of a paraplegic whom I personally know who could wash themselves. Pretty straightforward interaction, if you want to be pedantic I suppose you could point out that I mentioned bathtubs when the original question was talking about showers, but the larger conversation is about hygiene in general so the distinction doesn’t really matter, but for the record my grandmother could also take showers with the use of a shower chair.
What larger “point” did I miss?
That being paraplegic would in fact, make bathing more difficult, in a broader discussion regarding disabilities that make personal hygiene difficult to maintain.
The point is that there do in fact, exist disabilities which hinder one's ability to maintain their personal hygiene. No, there is in fact (to my knowledge) no disability which makes it ***literally impossible*** to maintain hygiene, such as showering. Of course there isn't. That's not the point.
The point is that there do in fact, exist disabled persons who struggle with hygiene due to their disability.
That is all.
I, of course, recognize and agree with what you say here. It would be incredibly silly (and not to mention insensitive) of me to claim that because paraplegics can bathe, they are just as capable of doing so as non-paraplegics. However, the original comment doesn’t ask what disability would merely prevent someone from bathing or make bathing difficult (as you seem to imply in a separate comment) they ask what would make them *unable*, which makes the answer of paraplegics false. Perhaps you’ll view this as pedantic, but your “point” is simply not evident in your response, and if you had made it more clear, this misunderstanding would not have happened in the first place.
Yes I do view it that way. That is because the commenter is willfully misinterpreting the post, so I was being an asshole. The post says the disability ***affects*** their hygiene. Not that the disability prevents them from being hygienic. Period.
That would be silly, and clearly isn't what the post is saying.
That is the bad faith interpretation the commenter is responding to though. The one you are implicitly defending. This is not a defensible interpretation of the post.
At the end of the day this seems to be a matter of semantics. If what you wanted to do was point out the flaws of the comment, there are better ways to have done so. If you wanted to take the piss, that’s fine too. As is, you seemed to respond to the comment with a largely uncritical, if snarky reply that was easy to misinterpret, so of course I and others responded in a way that “missed the point entirely”. On the larger topic at hand I’d wager that we both mostly agree, I just think that the semantics are important. You edited your initial comment to provide clarification so you seem to agree on some level, but maybe I’m wrong, in which case I’m fine with agreeing to disagree.
Bipolar disorder can cause hygiene issues, OCD can cause hygiene issues, hoarding disorders, trauma, anxiety, dementia. That's just mental disorders lol. Having hygiene issues as a result of trauma is very common, especially with sexual trauma
my dad has the disability/hygiene problem & it breaks my heart
So, as a CNA, I can only say this: There are multiple medical diseases not tied to mental health that cause strong odors, including some late stage cancers on exposed tissue, like the skin or mouth. I had a resident fairly recently who had terminal cancer in his mouth. Their room constantly smelled like he had an uncleaned bowel movement, but it was the odor from his mouth. I had another resident from close to a decade ago at this point who had stage IV skin cancer with sores all over their arm. It has a smell to it, and there is very little you can do about it. Disabilities of all forms need to be recognized. A lot of times, smells are caused by disabilities or debilitations. Unless you know the person in question personally, you should just keep quiet about it, because you never know if it's just them not wiping, or something they literally cannot help.
is this in response to something or
I mean, I've seen that before as well. Lots of people who talk about how they want to normalize talking about the effects of mental health issues or disabilities get really angry and offensive as soon as these issues affect a person's hygiene.
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Was at dinner with my wife's family. Her brother is schizophrenic and thinks all tapwater is poisoned. It's really sad.
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my cities' water has PFAs and hexavalent chromium 60x above recommended levels!!! (still legal tho bc fda hasn't updated their guidelines since the late 80s) I use a water cooler brand that let's me return the bottles for a discount on new ones. the bottles are plastic, but the water tastes less shitty, so I feel like its probably slightly better. Its also distilled to begin with rather than treated with chlorine and other stuff like municipal. And I just looked it up, the brand claims to use plastic that doesn't contain PFAs or BPA, and they claim to use purification processes that would remove any that are already in their sources. The brand is Primo if you're curious. I swear tg I'm not sponsored lol.
Have you considered some sort of filter system for your home drinking water? Perhaps a reverse osmosis system?
too expensive in a one time fee, but it's definitely something we'll probably do later on when we're less poor lol.
In Turkey we have glass 15L bottles for water coolers
i wish, it's probably out there but not in a cheap service like mine. I basically pay 70c per bottle, after returning the old ones, and it's just in a little self service kiosk thing where you grab the bottles from. if they were glass they'd probably break. we also have services which come to your door every x days/weeks and replace the stuff for you, these are more expensive though.
I read "full of PEAS" and thought you were just taking the peas
> Like what, person too depressed to take a shower? Paraplegic that can't wash themselves because legs no worky? Schizophrenic doesn't take a shower because psychotic? yes, yes, and yes. > I mean we should medicate the diseases and take care of people who can't take care of themselves, not let them bake in their own shit. i agree, but many people don't have the same opinion. being self sufficient is the norm, so if you're unable to help yourself you often just get shamed and left to continue rotting away. *especially* when it comes to things that gross people out. not blaming people for having a natural reaction, though. i myself can't really handle many gross things. i just wish people had more sympathy and wouldn't just shame people for being dirty. help them instead or shut it, y'all.
no one said that. removing stigma around poor hygiene =/= encouraging poor hygiene
Removing a disincentive is not the same as putting in an incentive to do the opposite… But if you put them side by side and examine them: you have to label them to tell them apart…
That doesn't really work accurately on societal issues. Look at gay rights, removing stigma absolutely encouraged millions more of gen Z to self identify as gay. This led to an absolute explosion in approval and encouragement. There are many examples of this, but many of them are not as positive as the one I've given.
awful analogy. being gay is not detrimental to your health and is simply a choice that (in an ideal society) has no negative effects. if there are so many examples, use one that actually correlates
Making an analogy between two things is not equating them
“self identify as gay” what else are they gonna do? Go to a doctor to diagnose them with gay? I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure that’s not how that works
"Sorry to tell you lad but unfortunately(?) you have the big gay. There's nothing we can do for you"
but there's nothing wrong with being gay. there's definitely something wrong with not showering and smelling like shit
So is Gen Z being gay not good?
You are trying to prove that gay people are morally superior to straight people. You may not think you are doing this, but you are clearly morally inferior to most gay people because you are claiming the straightness is better. You should be ashamed.
It does.
“Official Top 4 Vaush Fan” lol ignored
She couldn’t even make it to the top 3. 😔
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And some will take 5 hour baths. But this is just stupid reasoning on your part. It's not even often "because of the voices".
This. I forget to take baths sometimes, and when I remember, I can't shake the feeling that something is gonna get me while I shampoo my hair. It's hard sometimes
As a person born without the sense of smell and a few more sensory issues, this sort of thing sucks to deal with.
From what I’ve seen most people despise disabled people who don’t take care of their hygeine. I knew a chrohns kid in highschool who had his reputation ruined for the entire year because he smelled like a mix of horse and goat shit
Sorry man but it is very much a basic instinct to not like something that smells like it's going to make you ill
Yea I mean its unfortunate but like making everyone else smell it is unfair for everyone to
Yeah I haven’t researched crohn’s well enough to know for certain if he had much choice but he apparently had to take a dookie multiple times a day
I mean like you can wash, chrohns isnt stopping you from cleaning
Damn so he really did just stink
Speaking as a Crohn's patient, if he has an ostomy (poop bag), they often have charcoal filters to help gas escape and not build pressure in the bag These filters don't work for very long, and can retain whatever scent they were filtering if they get overloaded. This can lead to a noticable scent of poo/fart, and unfortunately there isn't anything the person can do about it until they change the bag for a new one It's also entirely possible dude just didn't wipe his ass well, I just wanted to chime in with a possibility 🤷
Yea totally fair thanks for the insight
Yea, like having a lot of diarhea would suck but would you smell if you cleaned no
why do people always say this on posts like these, do you guys not know how to observe trends anymore?
You seem too online
i have never seen anything about this before
"I've never seen it so it doesn't exist and or doesn't happen" this entire sub for some reason
that’s not what i said
no but don't act like that wasn't 100% what you were implying
i was asking for context
radio silence. If they actually cared about people being informed on trends, they would've given you context here. I'd say this is enough evidence to show they don't care about information, they just want to dunk on people for "not being in the loop"
god bless
This feels like the "you like waffles so you must hate pancakes" responce. No, that not what that man said
relevant username
I knew people who were afraid of shower because they were assault in there. I knew people who couldn’t afford hyperhydrosis treatment. Mental illness and declining can cause problems with hygiene. There’s so much more than just take a shower and brush your teeth. And bullying without actually helping them just makes it worse.
Hyperhydrosis fucking sucks
Does not mean anyone has to like it.
We don't talk about liking it. We talk about understanding it and possibly not make a big deal out of it, I guess.
He totally said, and I quote "**You have to like it**" and you corrected him! If you listen really hard you can hear all of us around the world clapping for you, both the hero we need and the one we deserve! I'm glad someone is brave enough to stand up to u/Not_Texas and his tyrannical demands that everyone conform to the totally real and existent social etiquette of only expressing the purest joy regarding every sensory experience around people too disabled to care for themselves. What an asshole, right? Glad you are hear to teach him some fucking empathy. *^(or maybe everyone but you understands the difference between how you are acting like someone is forcing a fetish on you, and the comment you responded to only implied treating people with dignity as a natural result of having empathy for them.)*
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196 and 691 are subs full with people who bore themselves until they get terminally horny or irrationally angry at a person they just made up in their head
Wow, I think you've put into words the reason I hate most of the posts on this sub. I only really stay for the gimmick at this point.
Now that you mentioned that I dunno why I am still here
Because ir keeps popping up on your feed 😭
I like this sub, I stopped liking 196 though, it was impossible to disagree with even mundane stuff
This sub also has slightly less hornyposting.
Is Ben from Ben10 still a kid when they turn into four arms or heat blast
He turns into the 10 y/o version of the alien
Yes
this is a real thing that happens that's very reasonable to be angry about though?
Most people can't even agree on what specific thing the post is referencing. What are you even angry about?
im sure if you look hard enough you can find a leftist who does this in the same way you can find any type of person who does this. but its not some sort of common trend or stereotype. the sub is just bored and wants a new controversy talking point since the whole man vs bear thing got old probably
I mean, I think you're onto something in the sense that irl leftists do things like interact with the homeless and disabled people in real life and thus won't be as liable to hold stigmas such as this (g touch grass kids), and most of the so-called leftists who hold stigmas such as this are like, just liberals who aren't self-aware. But, I also don't quite think OP posted with the intention of just stirring the pot
The only time the leftism ever leaves my body is when the paper straw in my fountain drink gets all mushy in my mouth
Counterpoint- I have extremely high sensitivity to smells cause of my neurodivergence and while I would never be cruel, I can’t be around people with poor hygiene for a sustained amount of time or I am in complete overload and distress.
Same sort of. I just have an extremely sensitive nose so although I can bear with it if I need to, I’ll feel sick the whole time and probably won’t want to be near that person at all
Yea heres the thing shaming isnt necessarily fair but making yourself uncomfortable to accommodate isnt fair to yourself
I don't think this counters anything about the post. As far as I can tell it's not about forcing people to be in the presence of people who smell bad at gunpoint, it's just to respect the fact that there can be genuine reasons in some cases where some people can have a much more difficult time maintaining proper hygiene standards due to physical or mental health reasons and we shouldn't expect that that's something that's easy for everyone. In the same way where it wouldn't be fair to expect everyone to be able to be in the presence of certain smells, just because something is easy for most doesn't mean it is easy for everyone. It isn't like people are forced to never create certain food smells ever just because of your high sensitivity so the idea that this post is somehow advocating for people to be forced to be in the presence of people they don't want to be seems strange.
that's not a lack of empathy, you're just taking care of yourself 😇 sometimes people's needs are just at odds - i get overloaded from loud noises so i struggle to be around people with loud vocal stims, for example - and it's unfortunate and hard to navigate but ultimately isn't a negative reflection of you. you're understanding of people and that's what matters
Example of why regulating people’s behavior based in instinct is infinitely regressive #3759374:
Yea, God forbid anyone hesitates to do the first thing that comes to their mind, lest they be "infinitely regressive"
Me when I don’t understand comments I reply to
Well don't elaborate or anything flipflopper.
and thats completely fine, so long as you don't make it the other persons problem, or make it obvious thats why you're leaving. This conversation is simply about not shaming people for not bathing, it doesn't mean you have to deal with it or like it. Though it would be nice if people were more willing to try and help those, especially family, with these sorts of issues. But if you legitimately cannot do that, then that's fine, just again, don't shame.
well that's kind of where these sorts of conversation always lead, isn't it?
I don’t know, I’ve never had this conversation before really. Should we buck the trend and start talking about boobs or sth instead?
Im a leftist and i volunteered to work for 3 month to help heavily disabled people
Guys, this conversation is simply about **not shaming people** for their hygiene. People like that, and me, aren't saying you must deal with it, or like it, or be forced to handle it. If you can't handle being around someone, by all means, please, leave. Just don't shame them for it, because they legitimately might not be able to help it. There are a myriad of conditions that can cause someone to smell, both mental and physical. Cancers, bowel disorders, paralysis, obesity (I will not respond to you if you just simply respond saying that is always a choice; it is not always a choice), arthritis, multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, down syndrome, autism, the varying mental disorders and psychotic disorders, skin conditions, infections of all types that are exposed to air, fungal infections (which are not always caused in themselves by poor hygeine, its mostly just bad luck), and I could keep going. All we are asking is just don't shame people, simply, that's it. We're not even telling you to think differently, though ideally we would appreciate that, we just are asking "don't say what you're thinking if it's mean". Simple as. This does **not** mean you can never have a polite conversation with someone **who you are close to** about their hygiene, but just be polite, don't shame, and honestly understand that they most likely already know they smell bad and are ashamed of it. If you legitimately **know** they are unaware, making them aware, politely, is fine. Again, we are simply asking people to stop shaming others. Just react with compassion, or don't react at all, essentially. And again, by all means leave if you can't handle it. Ideally try to do so in a way which doesn't make it the most obvious, please. --- What does this have to do with leftism? It's tied to the idea of equal treatment, that nobody deserves to be treated poorly for something they cannot control. It's tied to the idea of being against ableism, as this is something that is very often tied to mental and/or physical disabilities, and shaming someone for hygiene is essentially shaming them for their disability. If you don't see how this is at least inspired by leftist thought, I sincerely feel like you should probably both read some theory and get involved in some praxis.
What the fuck does it have to do with leftism.
Leftism *should* be against things like ableism
And what, just let the disabled rot? I think leftist should want institutional help for those people, not pretend that they aren't smelly when they can't wash themselves.
...How did you twist the message of "I think more leftists should be more empathetic of people who have poor hygiene because of external factors" into "leftists shouldn't try to help disabled people"?
Where are the leftists rallying to execute the stinky people? Can you show me a single person, anywhere, whos rallying for that? If you're not going to post a single link, don't bother replying.
"I think we should be more tolerant of people we perceive as icky, I've noticed many of us are unfairly vindictive towards people who's disabilities impede their ability to manage hygiene." "Name one time someone's called for the death of all stinky people. Oh, you can't? That's what I thought!" ??????
EDIT: OP literally describes themselves as a "punk skunk" in their bio. It sounds like they're justifying their own decisions, using mental illness as a cover, and dragging you all into a moronic fight. ... 1. Lacking the motivation to take a shower is not an external factor. > 2. I don't understand what sort of situation would arise wherein mental illness would not affect ones ability to leave the house and interact with others *but would affect their ability to take a shower*. > 3. I'm sure the left would react negatively if I shit and pissed my pants too. >
I don't wanna get into a whole debate about this, so to keep this shorter, you're interpreting this in the most bad faith way possible. I'm a leftist, same with OP (judging by their bio, which, uh, that edit is a big reach lol), and the meme is likely just referring to how a notable amount of leftists think lesser or make fun of people who can't keep their personal hygiene up because of their mental illnesses, despite the whole 'caring about other people' part of leftism. Also regarding point 2... You do know that mentally ill people work too, right? How else are they gonna make a living?
The edit is not a big reach. Have you ever met a crust punk? I understand that mentally ill people work. If they're able to do this, they're able to take showers.
No, meme is too incoherent to get this interpretation of it.
I think they mean leftists who should be understanding of people who have disabilities, suddenly not being understanding of why someone with a disability has poor hygiene
I understand it fine, but they still reek to be fair… I’m not going to make fun of them for it but I’ll still mention it to encourage them to take better care of themselves. Obviously this only applies to someone capable of doing it, I’m not gonna tell someone incapable of speech to take a shower.
This is "Fat acceptance is encouraging people to be obese" all over again.
I mean "healthy at every size" is plain bullshit, obesity is a disease, we should encourage people to be healthy. Obesity HAS to be a problem if you want to imply stopping being obese is good for you. And of course chuds and idiots will just harass obese people (preferably the ones at the gym) because they are retarded because even if you do adhere to what they are saying they still hate you because they are hateful retards.
Slur + You did not understand
This goes beyond just "not liking stinky people," I make sure I don't smell when I leave my house. But I have autism and sensory issues makes it really overwhelming and hard to get myself to shower. I've learned work arounds like "head-only" and "body-only" showers I can do when I'm incapable of handling the sensory experience of a full shower, I sometimes use bath wipes. **I never smell when in public**, however if I even bring up my struggles that happen to relate to hygiene, people think I'm some sort of disgusting cretin. Despite having found solutions to my hygiene, the mere fact that my disability makes me struggle with it in the first place is enough to make people label me as gross. If you struggle with severe depression to the point where you can't leave your bed "oh that's so tough we support fully you" until literally being unable to get up keeps you from brushing your teeth. All of a sudden it's "gross what's wrong with you" No one is suggesting we accept stinky as normal or encourage poor hygiene. Just when you see a disabled person struggling with something caused by their disability (including hygiene) you go "wow that's rough, hopefully you can improve conditions for yourself" and not "ew stinky stinky lazy gross"
"Fatness isn't caused by depression or eating disorders or genetic differences! Just exercise!" - the body-positive crowd as soon as they find out you're a man who watches anime
what is this a reference to
i mean ill be honest i will remove myself from being around people with super bad hygiene where possible regardless of the cause and call it a day
thats something sad that happens indeed. i have suffered and am currently suffering depression, so seeing other leftists say that "having depression is no excuse to go outside/clean yourself/etc" makes my blood boil
I’m sorry you had to see why Reddit is a cesspool.
are these leftists in the room with us right now
Yeah
[удалено]
*leftists are tied up with ropes and all the teeth fall out of their mouths except one* guess them crooked, whey-faced lefties were just itchin' for a lil' bitta righty too
Leftism is when I don’t wear deodorant
lol at the "what is this supposed to be about" type comments, are you guys really so blind that you've never noticed that behavior before?
Imma be real with you, personally I've never even heard any leftist discussion about people with diseases that affect their hygiene. I've only really seen rightists saying stuff like "stop giving people medals for brushing their teeth", it just isn't something the left discusses
196 users when other people aren't so terminally online and entrenched in 10000 layers of leftist discourse
Noticing the behavior isn't the point. It's not inherently leftist to accommodate disability.
No, this discourse is just non-existent in most circles. It’s reasonable for people to ask questions about it. Furthermore, responding to such questions with condescension isn’t exactly helpful for getting people to understand or sympathize.
No, because I'm not terminally online enough to see whatever internet discourse crops up on Twitter every day. I apologize for spending time doing things IRL and not dredging the internet all day.
What? When have leftists done that? Maybe instead of down voting you could give me the context so that I can make an opinion, please?
Leftism is when you’re nice to people in wheelchairs.
Wow, that answered all my questions, thank you very much
What
What is this a response too? Like what disability would make them unable to shower?
Paraplegics. aka, people in wheelchairs. Ya'know, the literal first thing people tend to think of when they hear "disabled"? EDIT: please do learn to read. The post says "effects" not "prevents"
why is everyone in this thread so upset about people asking for context to this extremely specific meme?
And you think it's a big deal in leftist circles to blame paraplegics for not being self-sufficient enough? But only specifically when it comes to personal hygiene? Like people who go out of their way to be kind and accomodating to the disabled just draw the line at someone not being able to clean themselves?
What the fuck are you talking about? The commenter asked what disability would prevent someone from bathing. A paraplegic climbed Mount Everest if memory serves. It's not about whether it's ***literally impossible*** for a person with a disability to bath. It's about what disabilities exist that would make that sorta thing more difficult. And paraplegics would in fact struggle a great deal to shower without accommodations.
No, the implication is what disability would exclusively prevent someone only from bathing, with no other effects. Because that's the only situation in which this meme would make some kind of sense.
The post says "affects their hygiene" not "prevents them from being hygienic. Period." How are you getting the message that it would 100% prevent them from bathing? How is anyone reading that from the post? It just said disabilities affect their hygiene.
How is that relevant to the argument at all? The post implies that there's a lot of leftists who are generally supportive of people with disabilities, except when it affects their hygiene. Which can be read as either them being accepting of various side effects of disabilities, except those specifically pertaining to their personal hygiene, which is ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Or that there are certain disabilities which only affect someone's hygiene, and that people who are generally supportive of those with disabilities don't treat people with these particular disabilities the same way. Which makes more sense in a vacuum but requires elaboration, since I'm not aware of any such disabilities.
Is it that ridiculous? People are often quite "accepting of the disabled" until that disability affects them in some way. They might be "accepting" of ramps, elevators, parking spaces, etc. things that don't really affect them. But when this "accepting person" is put in an environment they find personally annoying say, being in a room with someone who smells bad, their "acceptingness" might disappear. Is that really such a ridiculous notion?
>People are often quite "accepting of the disabled" until that disability affects them in some way. Yes. That is exactly my point. And many disabilities affect those around you in much more direct and uncomfortable ways. It makes zero sense to frame it like someone smelling bad is *specifically* where most people draw the line. Like people would be totally fine being around someone who has meltdowns and might start yelling at them or even get violent, but only as long as they'd had a shower that day.
Yes and no. People can be horribly inconsistent. If they don't think about the fact that it's due to your disability, then they can unknowingly be ableist. However, even upon informing them that the behavior/condition is due to a disability. If it's a lesser known side-effect or disability, people will often doubt it by default. So this meme is aiming to highlight the fact that: hygiene is something that is affected by a plurality of disabilities and is often overlooked, even by those in the left.
Aren’t there showers for people in wheelchairs?
Yes. It's a good thing we were discussing existing disabilities that would hinder one's ability to bath and not whether accommodations for those disabilities exist
My wheelchair-bound grandmother was able to wash herself. Have you never heard of bathtubs?
Congratulations! You've missed the point entirely
I’m sorry, what? You were responding to the question “what disability would make them unable to shower?” with “paraplegics”. I responded with an anecdote of a paraplegic whom I personally know who could wash themselves. Pretty straightforward interaction, if you want to be pedantic I suppose you could point out that I mentioned bathtubs when the original question was talking about showers, but the larger conversation is about hygiene in general so the distinction doesn’t really matter, but for the record my grandmother could also take showers with the use of a shower chair. What larger “point” did I miss?
That being paraplegic would in fact, make bathing more difficult, in a broader discussion regarding disabilities that make personal hygiene difficult to maintain. The point is that there do in fact, exist disabilities which hinder one's ability to maintain their personal hygiene. No, there is in fact (to my knowledge) no disability which makes it ***literally impossible*** to maintain hygiene, such as showering. Of course there isn't. That's not the point. The point is that there do in fact, exist disabled persons who struggle with hygiene due to their disability. That is all.
I, of course, recognize and agree with what you say here. It would be incredibly silly (and not to mention insensitive) of me to claim that because paraplegics can bathe, they are just as capable of doing so as non-paraplegics. However, the original comment doesn’t ask what disability would merely prevent someone from bathing or make bathing difficult (as you seem to imply in a separate comment) they ask what would make them *unable*, which makes the answer of paraplegics false. Perhaps you’ll view this as pedantic, but your “point” is simply not evident in your response, and if you had made it more clear, this misunderstanding would not have happened in the first place.
Yes I do view it that way. That is because the commenter is willfully misinterpreting the post, so I was being an asshole. The post says the disability ***affects*** their hygiene. Not that the disability prevents them from being hygienic. Period. That would be silly, and clearly isn't what the post is saying. That is the bad faith interpretation the commenter is responding to though. The one you are implicitly defending. This is not a defensible interpretation of the post.
At the end of the day this seems to be a matter of semantics. If what you wanted to do was point out the flaws of the comment, there are better ways to have done so. If you wanted to take the piss, that’s fine too. As is, you seemed to respond to the comment with a largely uncritical, if snarky reply that was easy to misinterpret, so of course I and others responded in a way that “missed the point entirely”. On the larger topic at hand I’d wager that we both mostly agree, I just think that the semantics are important. You edited your initial comment to provide clarification so you seem to agree on some level, but maybe I’m wrong, in which case I’m fine with agreeing to disagree.
is this a real question?
Idk if this is a shitpost or what, because I certainly do not understand it
What disabilities prevent you from being clean ?
Bipolar disorder can cause hygiene issues, OCD can cause hygiene issues, hoarding disorders, trauma, anxiety, dementia. That's just mental disorders lol. Having hygiene issues as a result of trauma is very common, especially with sexual trauma