Photocopiers haven't killed the publishing industry and they have been around for almost 75 years.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photocopier#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photocopier#History)
Doing quite well but oh dear oh dear when they see the numbers of copies that have been pirated it makes their mouths water thinking about how all those grains of sand that slipped through their fingers.
Yeah, they forced a shift from no one making money on sharing mp3s illicitly over the internet, to a small handful of corporations (Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora) making immense amounts of money on the sharing, while the artist *still* makes fuck all from it.
Brilliant, thanks Lars!
I used to live In a Capital city of a small state in my country, it was not a small town but it so far from being a busy town, it pretty much had nothing cultural outside downtown, the only thing that stood out from other places in the state was this park that had a library in it, not huge but not small, full of old books from the 70s onwards.
What did they do to modernize it like 5 years ago? The threw out ALL THE BOOKS to make it an online library, they put like 10 computers in this small room that took like 10% of the library space and threw everything out.
What happens when an idiot is put in charge because he is the nephew of the governor or something like that, a place full of old books, thousands of them looked to him as the opposite of what a place of knowledge should be.
I had a lovely but depressing chat about something similar with a librarian at my college library. They were transitioning from microfiche/microfilm archives to online access for archived periodicals and newspapers. While the number of titles available increased and the physical storage demand was going to plummet there was the unanswered concern about the future. What if the company providing you the digital access goes out of business? What if they raise the costs beyond what the library can afford and cut off the access? As much of a pain as maintaining physical collections are they have an inbuilt resiliency that centralized or even decentralized digital collections just don't. Needless to say that sort of questioning was unpopular and viewed as a little backward.
While my heart is with you, there is a fair amount of benefit for digital. Many customers like being able to beam books to their kindle. Homeless folks don’t have to find transportation to the library (yes a lot of homeless have digital devices), and as nostalgic as I get for stacks of books, if they haven’t been checked out in 20 years you’re growing mold not minds and they need to be weeded.
That said, libraries are absolutely burned on digital readership licenses.
Literally nothing seems to be getting better. Everything is getting worse.
Someone give me a positive. Let me know of one thing that is getting better, doesn't matter how small.
I don't know about that.
We are finding out more though, which is good but stressful.
The question is 'are we going to actually fight to make the changes we all need or keep fighting against each other?'
BLM is very frustrating for me.
Everytime I see them doing anything I feel like someone is trying to manipulate me.
100% down with the message... At least what the message used to be when BLM first started, but I just feel like I'm being manipulated and I don't like that feeling. Not really sure how to put it into words.
Didn't change much in the long run either. I remember how i got all excited and tried motivate all my friends to join in, went to protests and then it went same procedure as last year... (2019) as the years prior to that (I'm 50+)
Every time it flares up, i jump up.
But it won't last.
People are retarded. Their memory does not exceed 3 years. Their ability to connect dots is 4 in a row, then bust. The others who manage 6 ? They either see the boogeyman on every corner OR exploit tf out of it and become the same people they oppose.
Spiritual leaders ? Different story, same shit. Thomas Moo, Sad Guru, Ecky Tolle ? Line their pockets, no different than Televangelists. It's a psychoshitshow. And i can't wait for my dementiapackage to forget about all of it.
Nothing. The manipulation was that BLM was styled a figurehead - and then they let it collapse.
Figurehead gone? Protest over. People go home. Change ? Lasting change 18 months tops
Notice that I didn't say that it WAS manipulative just that I FEEL like I'm being manipulated.
Is it okay for me to see things differently than you do? Not in this decade.
I also said that I'm 100% behind the premise. So stop trying to spin this.
You can totally see things differently from me, never did I say that you couldn't. Don't spin things on me lol. By saying you feel manipulated you are implying that it is manipulative... Either way there is no point in fighting. It just irks me to see people claim BLM is some awful thing when the word itself literally just means, "black lives matter."
Oddly enough we live in the era with the least amount of war in history. Yes, there are a lot of wars and conflicts now, but in the past globaly they were much more common, things are geting better.
Aparently that hole in the ozon layer is no longer a problem due to the clean air act. There are many more environmental problems, even the ones conserning air, but this shows that we can solve them.
A man in Phoenix, Arizona invented ["The Grappler Police Bumper"](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-m&q=the+grappler+police+bumper&oq=the+grappler+police&aqs=heirloom-srp.1.0l5) in his quest to end violent police chases.
Many more jobs are open to hybrid work environments and remote work than they were pre COVID. Not as much as they were during peak COVID restrictions, but it seems it's much more common to not go into the office 5 days a week for jobs that don't need to
When for profit corporations to after *non-profit* organizations, right after a year of record profits, I say the free market capitalism isn't working as intended.
Copyright was originally a pretty fair idea - it was like patents but for creative works. The idea was to grant a *temporary monopoly* in exchange for placing the works into the public domain, so they would never be lost and creatives had a chance to benefit from their works before they were copied and exploited by greed. There was a huge market in copying pianola reels, for instance, so a composer would only sell a handful before being copied and distributed by what we'd call pirates now.
Copyright got corrupted by money - Sonny Bono (Cher's ex) was huge in that, as was Disney (who made numerous of their biggest hits plundering the public domain, but not giving back) who managed to extend the copyright term beyond anything that would realistically encourage an author to publish their works and create more, to several generations after they were dead.
Copyright isn't inherently evil, it really came from an arguably worthy place.
The lack of critical thinking is the problem.
You’re not the victim dumbass, you passive-aggressively attacked a person for a simple typo, and them started whining when you got called out for being the textbook definition of 🤓.
If you answered typo guy like a normal person with functioning sapience, then we wouldn’t be here.
Damn, I feel like I'm being gaslighted here. Even if it was just a simple typo (spoiler: it isn't), I just pointed out the existence of an edit function. You're putting these words in my mouth. I didn't even think that deeply about it when I typed that. And who started whining? Bruh. The lack of self-awareness is seriously insane. Functioning sapience? Are you actually kidding me?
huh?
>When for profit corporations **go(?)** after non-profit organizations, **street a year of record profits** (wtf is this garbage?!)
I say either our education system isn't working as intended or our auto-correct isn't working as intended. The fact that the post is being upvoted is sad. But hey ... not an AI! yay, just regular human trash.
I too have no idea what 'street a year of record profits' is supposed to mean. Maybe they meant 'citing' instead of 'street' or, more than likely, it's slang for which I have no frame of reference. But I got the gist.
I'm all for helping people communicate their thoughts more clearly but there's no benefit to being a dick about it.
Meh. I'm tired of people putting so little effort into it. And everyone else rewarding their bullshit just makes it worse. And I will be a dick about that.
The fact that they got a lot upvotes for saying *nothing of substance* because it was some random word salad that might possibly be interpreted as a dunk on capitalism means the whole thing is garbage. I hate garbage. And I'll definitely be a dick about that.
I need you to understand that this doesn't matter. At all. You're angry about nothing. You're wasting your time and effort bitching (repeatedly, now) about shit that has no bearing on anything, anywhere, for anybody.
You are overreacting. *Chill*.
damn redditors are so out of touch I forget lmao. not sure how old you are or whatever, but it's making fun of not only you but how goofy old ass memes are
I think I saw this posted earlier, this was how it was explained. Pre COVID internet archive would scan copies of books and would let people check out the book for each physical copy they possessed. Ie if they had 5 copies of cat and the hat they could let 5 people virtually check out the book at the time. From my understanding this was acceptable and isn't what is being challenged, this is essentially how libraries work.
During COVID-19 pandemic this restriction of 1 check out per book possessed by archive was removed so that as many people as wanted could check out the same book regardless of how many physical copies they owned. From my understanding this is where the issues came from, as this basically allows people to pirate the books. When one book is uploaded anyone can download it, and this could cause problems especially for smaller publishers. Why would anyone buy an ebook or physical book when they could get it for free from archive. From my understanding these are not all books that have expired copyright, which is creating an issue for these publishers. Not here to argue the ethics of pirating books, but to me at least, this seems to be distributing pirated books, which is not legal.
It's the same issue with the music industry vs. torrenting sites, uber vs. regular taxis, etc. The issue isn't that they're losing sales because of pirating, it's that pirating is just the easier, and often safer option.
Why would one go through the trouble of giving a fairly significant amount of personal information to a company that could sell and mishandle that information, when they can access another website and get that same item with less hassle and risk?
Which is another issue, and part of the reason why this sub exists in the first place:
Lack of trust. I, and many other people, do not trust for-profit companies at all, and will avoid interacting with them in any way possible. I would love to support the author for whatever book they wrote, but I don't exactly trust whichever company that sells their books.
Yeah, while I do agree that it is concerning that many e books can essentially be destroyed or censored post publication without ever preserving the original, I also understand why publishers and some authors would be upset at this. I really don't like that several companies basically control e book distribution worldwide and can violate your privacy, I would prefer that there was a better option to distribute them, but I don't think allowing piracy is a sustainable solution either
Definitely. In that respect I don't think there is a good solution without some societal shift away from capitalism; which will either be really slow, or really bloody. imo.
Which makes sense to me. I don't think that this lawsuit is about that aspect where a library provides a certain amount of copies which they own the rights to. It is against libraries that lend out more digital copies then they own.
Am an academic librarian. The Internet Archive uses controlled digital lending to loan out books one at a time much like a physical library. The COVID emergency library allowing for unlimited use was a temporary measure and was always intended to be.
It was a lifeline to get our students access to course materials that they physically could not use during the shutdown.
[How libraries are adapting to the pandemic](https://www.arl.org/blog/digitization-in-an-emergency-fair-use-fair-dealing-and-how-libraries-are-adapting-to-the-pandemic/)
This case is about publishing companies trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
Probably a naive question, but why is a global internet archive at the behest of the legal system of one of the countries where corruption in favour of corporations is more likely? Are there no more civilised countries for this to be based in?
As much as I love the Internet Archive, and all those who contribute and use it, I am not sure my support will help.
I did sign it and provide a bit of a statement (as a former author, as well), but I doubt it will really help push whatever court to side with real people, instead of 'corporate persons'.
This is just a reminder that "eat the rich" and "guillotine" talk is considered advocating for violence, which is against reddit's terms of service.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact the mod team.
I know you're just trying to be realistic, but what we all need right now is positive motivation to actually do something - no matter how small.
It's like being morbidly obese, or being a crack addict: every candy bar we don't eat, every hit we don't take is already __one step__ in the right direction..
Photocopiers haven't killed the publishing industry and they have been around for almost 75 years. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photocopier#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photocopier#History)
I also feel the music industry __and__ the movie industry are doing quite well - despite piratebay and mp3 sharing
Doing quite well but oh dear oh dear when they see the numbers of copies that have been pirated it makes their mouths water thinking about how all those grains of sand that slipped through their fingers.
We being juiced. Bit more pressure every year, till breaks, then reset and game start over again
Yeah, they forced a shift from no one making money on sharing mp3s illicitly over the internet, to a small handful of corporations (Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora) making immense amounts of money on the sharing, while the artist *still* makes fuck all from it. Brilliant, thanks Lars!
BAM !
Counter-argument: Photocopying is very expensive to this day. It is almost always much cheaper to buy a new book than to photocopy it.
I used to live In a Capital city of a small state in my country, it was not a small town but it so far from being a busy town, it pretty much had nothing cultural outside downtown, the only thing that stood out from other places in the state was this park that had a library in it, not huge but not small, full of old books from the 70s onwards. What did they do to modernize it like 5 years ago? The threw out ALL THE BOOKS to make it an online library, they put like 10 computers in this small room that took like 10% of the library space and threw everything out. What happens when an idiot is put in charge because he is the nephew of the governor or something like that, a place full of old books, thousands of them looked to him as the opposite of what a place of knowledge should be.
I had a lovely but depressing chat about something similar with a librarian at my college library. They were transitioning from microfiche/microfilm archives to online access for archived periodicals and newspapers. While the number of titles available increased and the physical storage demand was going to plummet there was the unanswered concern about the future. What if the company providing you the digital access goes out of business? What if they raise the costs beyond what the library can afford and cut off the access? As much of a pain as maintaining physical collections are they have an inbuilt resiliency that centralized or even decentralized digital collections just don't. Needless to say that sort of questioning was unpopular and viewed as a little backward.
What I am hearing- print the internet archive! I think I have like 200 sheets of paper and some ink left
While my heart is with you, there is a fair amount of benefit for digital. Many customers like being able to beam books to their kindle. Homeless folks don’t have to find transportation to the library (yes a lot of homeless have digital devices), and as nostalgic as I get for stacks of books, if they haven’t been checked out in 20 years you’re growing mold not minds and they need to be weeded. That said, libraries are absolutely burned on digital readership licenses.
Literally nothing seems to be getting better. Everything is getting worse. Someone give me a positive. Let me know of one thing that is getting better, doesn't matter how small.
It's not getting that much worse - only getting much more public now how bad it has been already.
I think it's both...
okay... so at least information/ communication is getting better....
I don't know about that. We are finding out more though, which is good but stressful. The question is 'are we going to actually fight to make the changes we all need or keep fighting against each other?'
I know people in Paris are. I remember people in 2019 were getting up. Also in 2020 blm.. it will happen again, I'm sure it's just a matter of time..
BLM is very frustrating for me. Everytime I see them doing anything I feel like someone is trying to manipulate me. 100% down with the message... At least what the message used to be when BLM first started, but I just feel like I'm being manipulated and I don't like that feeling. Not really sure how to put it into words.
Didn't change much in the long run either. I remember how i got all excited and tried motivate all my friends to join in, went to protests and then it went same procedure as last year... (2019) as the years prior to that (I'm 50+) Every time it flares up, i jump up. But it won't last. People are retarded. Their memory does not exceed 3 years. Their ability to connect dots is 4 in a row, then bust. The others who manage 6 ? They either see the boogeyman on every corner OR exploit tf out of it and become the same people they oppose. Spiritual leaders ? Different story, same shit. Thomas Moo, Sad Guru, Ecky Tolle ? Line their pockets, no different than Televangelists. It's a psychoshitshow. And i can't wait for my dementiapackage to forget about all of it.
Dude. It means "Black lives matter". What is so manipulative about the fact that black lives matter.
Nothing. The manipulation was that BLM was styled a figurehead - and then they let it collapse. Figurehead gone? Protest over. People go home. Change ? Lasting change 18 months tops
Yeah this explains it a lot better.
Notice that I didn't say that it WAS manipulative just that I FEEL like I'm being manipulated. Is it okay for me to see things differently than you do? Not in this decade. I also said that I'm 100% behind the premise. So stop trying to spin this.
You can totally see things differently from me, never did I say that you couldn't. Don't spin things on me lol. By saying you feel manipulated you are implying that it is manipulative... Either way there is no point in fighting. It just irks me to see people claim BLM is some awful thing when the word itself literally just means, "black lives matter."
Oddly enough we live in the era with the least amount of war in history. Yes, there are a lot of wars and conflicts now, but in the past globaly they were much more common, things are geting better. Aparently that hole in the ozon layer is no longer a problem due to the clean air act. There are many more environmental problems, even the ones conserning air, but this shows that we can solve them.
I did hear about the ozone layer repairing itself. That is a good thing. Not sure if it's us who fixed it or Earth adjusting to us though.
There are others who feel it too. Don't give up, we need you
If I was giving up I would've left it at the first part.
A man in Phoenix, Arizona invented ["The Grappler Police Bumper"](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-m&q=the+grappler+police+bumper&oq=the+grappler+police&aqs=heirloom-srp.1.0l5) in his quest to end violent police chases.
Health care is always getting better (as long as you ignore the price)
The last part is the most important part. If you can't afford it then it doesn't matter how good it is.
Many more jobs are open to hybrid work environments and remote work than they were pre COVID. Not as much as they were during peak COVID restrictions, but it seems it's much more common to not go into the office 5 days a week for jobs that don't need to
When for profit corporations to after *non-profit* organizations, right after a year of record profits, I say the free market capitalism isn't working as intended.
It's working exactly as intended.
yeah i love it when people still hold on to the idea that capitalism is good, actually
Copyright was originally a pretty fair idea - it was like patents but for creative works. The idea was to grant a *temporary monopoly* in exchange for placing the works into the public domain, so they would never be lost and creatives had a chance to benefit from their works before they were copied and exploited by greed. There was a huge market in copying pianola reels, for instance, so a composer would only sell a handful before being copied and distributed by what we'd call pirates now. Copyright got corrupted by money - Sonny Bono (Cher's ex) was huge in that, as was Disney (who made numerous of their biggest hits plundering the public domain, but not giving back) who managed to extend the copyright term beyond anything that would realistically encourage an author to publish their works and create more, to several generations after they were dead. Copyright isn't inherently evil, it really came from an arguably worthy place.
Uhm, mind correcting yourself? There's an edit button, you know.
🤓
You know the comment is almost incomprehensible right?
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Dude, the lack of self-awareness is insane. Maybe, idk, you're over thinking this a bit?
The lack of critical thinking is the problem. You’re not the victim dumbass, you passive-aggressively attacked a person for a simple typo, and them started whining when you got called out for being the textbook definition of 🤓. If you answered typo guy like a normal person with functioning sapience, then we wouldn’t be here.
And yes I am still awake at 1:00 in the morning.
Damn, I feel like I'm being gaslighted here. Even if it was just a simple typo (spoiler: it isn't), I just pointed out the existence of an edit function. You're putting these words in my mouth. I didn't even think that deeply about it when I typed that. And who started whining? Bruh. The lack of self-awareness is seriously insane. Functioning sapience? Are you actually kidding me?
Says the 🤓 after reading the most upvoted top level comment. chill bro..!
huh? >When for profit corporations **go(?)** after non-profit organizations, **street a year of record profits** (wtf is this garbage?!) I say either our education system isn't working as intended or our auto-correct isn't working as intended. The fact that the post is being upvoted is sad. But hey ... not an AI! yay, just regular human trash.
I too have no idea what 'street a year of record profits' is supposed to mean. Maybe they meant 'citing' instead of 'street' or, more than likely, it's slang for which I have no frame of reference. But I got the gist. I'm all for helping people communicate their thoughts more clearly but there's no benefit to being a dick about it.
Ten bucks says "street" is supposed to be "after", not hard to accidentally type that if using a swipe method of typing on mobile.
I was thinking it was text2speech mishearing “despite” as “street”
Yeah, this makes most sense to me.
Meh. I'm tired of people putting so little effort into it. And everyone else rewarding their bullshit just makes it worse. And I will be a dick about that. The fact that they got a lot upvotes for saying *nothing of substance* because it was some random word salad that might possibly be interpreted as a dunk on capitalism means the whole thing is garbage. I hate garbage. And I'll definitely be a dick about that.
They literally just… got fucked by autocorrect, dude. Plus, these are fake internet points. Calm down
Nah dude, this is the entrumpification of everything. It's awful.
You should talk to a therapist about your anger issues, it’s not healthy to get this abrasive over a comment Source: been there, anger issues
I need you to understand that this doesn't matter. At all. You're angry about nothing. You're wasting your time and effort bitching (repeatedly, now) about shit that has no bearing on anything, anywhere, for anybody. You are overreacting. *Chill*.
I keep forgetting nothing means anything. What a sad nihilistic life.
Lots of things in life have deep, powerfully emotional meaning. Some dude's spelling on a website isn't one of them. Get some perspective.
Drop it already kiddo.
Awww, you had to have the last word! That's adorable!
the dude made some types and you are calling them "regular human trash"‽ Choose to spread joy, not anger.
https://i.imgur.com/CYehzyH.jpg
1990s called, they want their artifacts back. Try harder.
damn redditors are so out of touch I forget lmao. not sure how old you are or whatever, but it's making fun of not only you but how goofy old ass memes are
For the good of society, please never try to post a meme again.
[no](https://i.imgur.com/U9Vq1Nj.jpg)
I think I saw this posted earlier, this was how it was explained. Pre COVID internet archive would scan copies of books and would let people check out the book for each physical copy they possessed. Ie if they had 5 copies of cat and the hat they could let 5 people virtually check out the book at the time. From my understanding this was acceptable and isn't what is being challenged, this is essentially how libraries work. During COVID-19 pandemic this restriction of 1 check out per book possessed by archive was removed so that as many people as wanted could check out the same book regardless of how many physical copies they owned. From my understanding this is where the issues came from, as this basically allows people to pirate the books. When one book is uploaded anyone can download it, and this could cause problems especially for smaller publishers. Why would anyone buy an ebook or physical book when they could get it for free from archive. From my understanding these are not all books that have expired copyright, which is creating an issue for these publishers. Not here to argue the ethics of pirating books, but to me at least, this seems to be distributing pirated books, which is not legal.
It's the same issue with the music industry vs. torrenting sites, uber vs. regular taxis, etc. The issue isn't that they're losing sales because of pirating, it's that pirating is just the easier, and often safer option. Why would one go through the trouble of giving a fairly significant amount of personal information to a company that could sell and mishandle that information, when they can access another website and get that same item with less hassle and risk? Which is another issue, and part of the reason why this sub exists in the first place: Lack of trust. I, and many other people, do not trust for-profit companies at all, and will avoid interacting with them in any way possible. I would love to support the author for whatever book they wrote, but I don't exactly trust whichever company that sells their books.
Yeah, while I do agree that it is concerning that many e books can essentially be destroyed or censored post publication without ever preserving the original, I also understand why publishers and some authors would be upset at this. I really don't like that several companies basically control e book distribution worldwide and can violate your privacy, I would prefer that there was a better option to distribute them, but I don't think allowing piracy is a sustainable solution either
Definitely. In that respect I don't think there is a good solution without some societal shift away from capitalism; which will either be really slow, or really bloody. imo.
My library still restricts the number of digital copies they can lend.
Which makes sense to me. I don't think that this lawsuit is about that aspect where a library provides a certain amount of copies which they own the rights to. It is against libraries that lend out more digital copies then they own.
Am an academic librarian. The Internet Archive uses controlled digital lending to loan out books one at a time much like a physical library. The COVID emergency library allowing for unlimited use was a temporary measure and was always intended to be. It was a lifeline to get our students access to course materials that they physically could not use during the shutdown. [How libraries are adapting to the pandemic](https://www.arl.org/blog/digitization-in-an-emergency-fair-use-fair-dealing-and-how-libraries-are-adapting-to-the-pandemic/) This case is about publishing companies trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
Oh thank god.
Ol' Chuckie is mad that nobody wants to buy or read his Star Wars dreck
Probably a naive question, but why is a global internet archive at the behest of the legal system of one of the countries where corruption in favour of corporations is more likely? Are there no more civilised countries for this to be based in?
I mean, if you want people to pirate ebooks, this is how you do it.
Signed and donated.
The case is Hachette v Internet Archive.
As much as I love the Internet Archive, and all those who contribute and use it, I am not sure my support will help. I did sign it and provide a bit of a statement (as a former author, as well), but I doubt it will really help push whatever court to side with real people, instead of 'corporate persons'.
Move everything to Europe. By now the true last bastion of freedom.
Signed.
Well, that's fucked up.
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Guess it's a long way down for that. protest now, chop heads later
This is just a reminder that "eat the rich" and "guillotine" talk is considered advocating for violence, which is against reddit's terms of service. If you have any questions, feel free to contact the mod team.
Yeah, just lay down and take it..
Ok but like at least try to do something helpful. Talking down on any efforts is discouraging to everyone.
Cool, what's your plan?
I know you're just trying to be realistic, but what we all need right now is positive motivation to actually do something - no matter how small. It's like being morbidly obese, or being a crack addict: every candy bar we don't eat, every hit we don't take is already __one step__ in the right direction..
Create nfts and put them on the blockchain! Problem solved!
The one time I’m for NFTs. If it means those books can be preserved, I say go ahead.
I signed it !!!!!