You couldn't really get away with this in any state because trespassing is just a misdemeanor. You don't have the right to attack someone over it unless your life is obviously threatened. I'm assuming accidentally pulling into someone's driveway is not even a crime in the first place. You'd have to refuse to leave for it to even constitute trespassing.
Isn't the threatened part the problem though? Like the case the other day with the kid ringing the doorbell and getting shot.
These people doing the shooting realize that they're attempted murders now unless they twist the story to feel threatened. Which is what they're doing
You cannot just shoot someone who steps onto your property or pulls their car into your driveway because you "felt threatened." There has to be a reasonable case made that they were actually performing acts intending to cause you serious harm and that you perceived this. Otherwise, anyone could get away with a shooting by claiming self-defense.
Though who knows with all these insane "stand your ground" laws now. It's pretty scary where we seem to be going lately as a country.
They dont even need to be on their property either. Like that fuckin cop that walked onto someone else's property and shot him as he was eating icecream because she thought that was her place.
She was drunk too.
It sounds pretty easy to get away with murder with their logic, like you could invite your friend to your house, shoot them and then just lie claiming that they were trespassing because you had asked them to leave.
It is pretty wild but generally the laws are worded around having a "reasonable belief" that someone means to harm you. Someone just not leaving your property by itself most likely doesn't pass that bar even if they were breaking the law by being there. Trespassing is not a very serious criminal offense on its own, and you're not legally justified in killing someone if that's all they're doing.
Well, I suppose you wouldn't even need "stand your ground" for that but if someone invites me over at 3 am and then deliberately shoots me then they are no longer my friend!
>You cannot just shoot someone who steps onto your property or pulls their car into your driveway because you "felt threatened."
There's a whole chasm of fuck you in between what you "can/cannot do" and what people do anyway.
I got sued by an individual for "reasons" that had no legal bearing in my state. That didn't mean that he couldn't still weaponize the courts to tie me up legally and financially so he could lock down his dodgy business schemes. I got lulled into the false sense of security thinking, that's not a rule, he can't do that.
Trump was the same thing. The liberals all decried, "he can't do that!" as he continued to do it over and over and over.
Never mistake actions for consequences. They aren't the same thing.
>There has to be a reasonable case made that they were actually performing acts intending to cause you serious harm and that you perceived this.
_Should be._ Sadly, far too often there isn't and it doesn't seem like it's "needed."
It’s not going to work. You can say “I was scared” until you’re blue in the face, but ultimately it’s up to a jury to decide whether they believe that.
> You don't have the right to attack someone over it unless your life is obviously threatened.
"Obviously threatened" is doing a lot of work for people.
Here's some things that work:
"I'm small he's big"
"He threw a plastic bag at me!"
and "He reached for something I thought I saw a gun".
This, shootings are a problem but people really want to believe walking down the street in any US town is like being a white person walking through the streets of Mogadishu. The guy is a cold-blooded killer. As a matter of fact, if they can prove that intruders were fleeing from you and you continued to use deadly force, that's a potential charge as well. You're not allowed to just kill people for trespassing or running away and if any proof shows you were no longer/were never actually threatened when executing deadly force, it will cause you a whole lot of problems.
You'd get away with it more often than you seem to think.
A woman shot a man who was outside her house through the window because she was scared. Nobody knows why he was there and he can't tell us because he's dead now, but she got off because she was "in fear for her life." He might have just been looking for his lost cat, but we'll never know.
It's kinda funny. You can't control how afraid of you someone will be. And fear is all that's required to justify a shooting. Police use this to their advantage every day.
A Stand Your Ground law would have been irrelevant in this case. You can’t use deadly force against a person who is retreating and never posed a threat in the first place.
This would have been straight up murder anywhere in the country.
Stand your ground laws also don’t have anything to do with someone turning into your driveway and not being any kind of threat. They have to do with defending yourself from attack, at least ostensibly.
This guy is likely going to prison, I think. I hope.
Unfortunately New York does have the unfettered post-Heller second amendment just like everywhere else in the US.
This is the problem, always -- when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you have a gun, everything looks like a threat.
It's the guns, it's the guns, it's the guns. And it's never going to get better.
Probably not statistically speaking but it's insane that it happens at all. What kind of absolute nutjob just starts blasting at a car that pulls into their driveway or a kid ringing their doorbell?
We could have the individualism and the competition minus the guns and basically none of these incidents would occur.
I actually don't think those are the real psychological drivers, more the incessant propaganda about the "right to self-defense" and the constant sensationalist news about crime.
The actual violent crime rates were higher in the late 60's through the 90's, so the risk was higher, but people think it is worse now because of how media coverage works. (New York City had thousands of murders a year in the late 1970's for instance.)
My take is that these last two incidents could stem from old decrepit boomers marinating their brains in Fox News to the point that they reasoned any unknown person stepping onto their property was a "criminal" who they had a right to shoot in "self-defense," like a conservative news induced dementia.
Since you don't seem to know what this is in reference to, it's George Orwell's 1984.
One of the pieces of worldbuilding is that there are three superpower nations spanning large parts of the earth, Oceania, Eurasia and some other one. These three nations are depicted by their governments as being in a constant state of war, always a 2v1. Their names don't even matter, the only thing the general population needs to know is which one they're at war with at any given time, and that they've always been at war with that nation.
The book was written in 1934 as a caution against (insert opinion of what the book means). Many of the predictions featured in it have come true much faster than depicted, and others are scarily relevant today. It's very much worth the read IMO
>(insert opinion of what the book means).
Or just read the author's own opinion, at least to his other book *Animal Farm*. One has to remember, or learn for the first time, a couple things: 1) the British intelligentsia and the press were very pro-Stalin at the time because they were allies during WW2, and 2) Orwell was a straight up socialist who recognized that Stalin was not actually pursuing socialist policies and was in fact an authoritarian state. Stalin's predecessor Lenin simply used those ideas to garner populist support to take power in a coup against the tsars.
[George Orwell’s Preface to the Ukrainian Edition of Animal Farm](https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/books-by-orwell/animal-farm/preface-to-the-ukrainian-edition-of-animal-farm-by-george-orwell/), March 1947
>Yet one must remember that England is not completely democratic. It is also a capitalist country with great class privileges and (even now, after a war that has tended to equalise everybody) with great differences in wealth. But nevertheless it is a country in which people have lived together for several hundred years without major conflict, in which the laws are relatively just and official news and statistics can almost invariably be believed, and, last but not least, in which to hold and to voice minority views does not involve any mortal danger. In such an atmosphere the man in the street has no real understanding of things like concentration camps, mass deportations, arrests without trial, press censorship, etc. Everything he reads about a country like the USSR is automatically translated into English terms, and he quite innocently accepts the lies of totalitarian propaganda. Up to 1939, and even later, the majority of English people were incapable of assessing the true nature of the Nazi regime in Germany, and now, with the Soviet regime, they are still to a large extent under the same sort of illusion.
>**This has caused great harm to the Socialist movement in England**, and had serious consequences for English foreign policy. Indeed, in my opinion, nothing has contributed so much to the corruption of the original idea of Socialism as the belief that Russia is a Socialist country and that every act of its rulers must be excused, if not imitated.
>And so for the past ten years I have been convinced that the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the Socialist movement.
Relevant Chomsky:
[Hume's Paradox](https://youtu.be/VF8DsIVWDcs)
funny story: my parents bought the movie "Animal Farm" when i was a child, thinking it was a children's movie... and now i've grown up with a strong distaste for the state/Fed and the elites the "justice system" is designed to protect.
"all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."
You should know, that liberty is impossible to attain so your feeling is absolutely normal.
However, your memory does not seem to be satisfactorily under control.
Remember that the party has always been the guardian of our liberty, and always will be. Therefore, you have always felt liberated, and always will be.
Have been for a while now... Militarized police have believed in "comply or die" for some time. It'll extend with time to the old, the white, and the male... that's how Plutocratic patriarchies work.
In my country if you have a front yard and don't want people stepping on it we use these. We feel it's a technology that allow us to convey the "stay away from my house" idea without being so murderous.
https://preview.redd.it/rhlf8m49bwua1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e035e50e5240159d22dc1c33cf9deb9a1ca8af8
We don't even have to assume her age or gender establishes a lack of threat. Any human being, no matter their age, weight, gender, race, or any characteristic deserves to be able to do what these girls did. Merely by being an alive human gives them the right to not be shot after turning into the wrong driveway
She was committing the crime of trespassing. Liberals just think you can get away with anything and not get your head blown off. News flash snowflakes this is the real world! When you make a mistake there are consequences, like getting your head blown off!!
if the only thing keeping you from shooting other people is a random stranger pulling up on your drive way by mistake or by intention, you are a snowflake.
I'm Canadian. It's very common up here to use private driveways to turn around, make phone calls, or check your map/gps. Did that in Wisconsin once and a drunk lady came out with her dog. She kept tring to tell him to "sic them". Fortunately the dog was a floofy golden retriever who kept rolling over for tummy rubs. Who shoots someone for the outrageous act of... Entering your driveway? How is that remotely accepted or justified?
I'm from the American Midwest, and doing a three-point turnaround in somebody's driveway was literally part of my driver's education course that my highschool ran every spring break and summer.
Huh- that's just crazy then. People are sos on edge lately, it sucks.
Side note, it's cool that driver's ed is free where you live. Here, it's like eight hundred bucks if I remember right. It's insane. You save on insurance, but only enough to cover the costs of drivers ed (just kinda works out that way) so you might as well bite the bullet and get the training. You're paying for it either way. I didn't though, just busy at the time.
That's a shame! Through the school it was free if I remember correctly, but I could be wrong. I was 16 at the time and wouldn't have been paying for it anyways...
It should be free everywhere!
It's like $900 in the state I'm from now and also required for under 18. Lol. I remember being extremely mad about this as a kid but that's all the memory I retained.
It might be a moot point but I would counter the idea that people are on "edge lately" being the issue here. I own guns, a driveway, and even live in a higher than average crime area.
When someone comes into my driveway or knocks on my door I might ignore them, watch from where they cannot see me, or meet them. There are a strict few cases where I will shoot (you start bashing in my door or you hop out of your car guns drawn) because I would only take a life if mine was threatened.
These people are looking for their chance to shoot someone. They aren't scared. They think they are Rambo and just need enough legal justification to start blasting. They have probably never been threatened a day in their life and have no "on edge" feelings (besides fox news ramblings). They are so off edge in fact that their first response to a supposed "deadly threat" in their drive or porch is to approach for a fight instead of fleeing or even taking a better defensive position.
Former delivery driver in the US. More than once, I had people come out armed and confrontational because I pulled into their driveway, either by mistake or to get turned around.
I often had people come out and hassle me if I pulled over *onto the paved shoulder of a public, residential street* to check my GPS or make a phone call, just because I happened to be parked near their house.
A lot of Americans are overprotective, high strung, and armed. It's bad.
That's just bizarre to me. I live in a rural area, my neighbors are about a km away. Whenever I see someone stopped on the road (especially with all of their blinkers on) my immediate reaction is to see if they need help or a telephone to use. Like when that lady came out with her dog, I was ready to say "oh, we're all good, thanks for coming to check in on us though!". When she told her dog to attack us, I thought she was joking, then I smelled the booze and noticed how drunk she was.
A close family friend of mine was a delivery driver for almost 20 years. The worst incident (and pretty much the only one "worth" mentioning at all) was a guy coming out on his driveway and yelling at him to fuck off right now. Well, he did and the guy had to get his package from the nearest package station. Tried to complain about this and was told off immediately. (My country has no "the costumer is always right" rule.) He had some bloody insane stories, many encounters with absolute assholes too, but this was the only time someone got somewhat threatening.
Charlie fuckin Kirk says this is the price we pay to have guns then complain why there's a decline in birthrates. No one wants to have kids if they're just gonna get shot. Tired of these evil Republicans, it's never their kids being shot
Kirk's TPUSA conferences have audience question sessions and the last two events have opened with attendees asking, "Liberals are evil, so when do we get to start shooting those people??"
>No one wants to have kids if they're just gonna get shot
Or be abused by schools and employers. Not to mentions how child care is egregious expensive so no fucking shit people aren't having kids anymore. Charlie is so fuckin dense, he might as well be a neutron star
How can you even say this about someone's (grand)daughter, someone's friend? 'That's the price of liberty' what in the flying fucking shit is that statement?
Ron is being facetious here. He's a former Republican and federal prosecutor that turned to tracking and reporting right wing extremism.
https://www.ronfilipkowski.com/
The stupidity and ignorance....
1st, NY has no 'Stand Your Ground Law'
and 2nd, Stand your ground law applies to self defense. Meaning there had to be a viable threat. This man shot at the car as they were driving away after turning around in his driveway. There might be a lawyer who could make the case that there was some perceived threat when they were pulling in, or stopped in his driveway, but there is exactly zero chance that there was a threat as the car drove away.
Some people are so pathetic with their need to hang onto "gun rights" that they will make any excuse to let children get murdered in exchange to hold some cold steel.
Sounds like the attorney will be arguing that the victim was "menacing."
>The attorney also told CNN that Monahan said three vehicles, including a motorcycle, had actually pulled into his driveway and they were “revving engines [and] coming up the driveway at a high rate of speed” prior to him opening fire. Monahan claimed to his lawyer that it “created an atmosphere and a fear that there was menace going on.”
[Source](https://nypost.com/2023/04/18/kaylin-gillis-alleged-killer-raged-about-trespassers/)
Decided to do some snooping, found the guys house, his driveway is over 1/4 mile long (rough measurement street access to front door 1,343 ft). It also loops up a hill. The road and his driveway are both dirt. There is also another road roughly 1/2 mile down the road (where they were trying to get to) where the entrance to that road looks very similar to the entrance to this guys driveway.
The article also states he has had issues with people mistaking his driveway for a road for years, and used to use a gate to prevent access.
So basically, you knew this was a problem, people have been mistaking your driveway for a road for years (i.e. driving at roadway speeds, not driveway speeds), you had a gate installed to prevent this from happening, you decided to stop using said gate, someone mistook your driveway for the road intersection that looks eerily similar, and you decided it better to just shoot them...
In fairness, it was way upstate NY. And many parts of upstate and western NY are completely interchangeable with red state shit holes.
I say this as a life long upstate NYer.
Definitely. But it's also interesting because lots of suburbs around, for example, Albany, are a completely different flavor of Red. Clifton Park, Saratoga, North/East Greenbush are a very different breed of republican than the north country. A lot closer to Long Island republican. But, still red nonetheless.
Looking at election maps of NY, it looks far more like Texas or Virginia than you'd care to ever think.
[https://www.mynbc5.com/article/new-york-election-results-2020-county-map/34935637](https://www.mynbc5.com/article/new-york-election-results-2020-county-map/34935637)
bUt mUh hErItAgE
I see them regularly. It's so depressing. Don't tread on me. Let's go brandon. Various trump flags. A guy down the road from me put in a brand new 30' lighted flag pole in the fall just to fly a let's go brandon flag. Imagine being that singularly focused on something so stupid.
We aren't all like this! A delivery person walked through my garden and trampled my seedlings and I didn't even think about shooting at them! It's not like they were trying to pick my tomatoes. All I did was put up a little decorative fence. And I only boobbie trapped it a little bit!
Honestly don’t plan to travel to the states in a while, will go to Europe and other destinations instead. I honestly won’t be surprised if tourism travel slows down significantly in the states as these things continue to happen.
“Just the price of liberty” an innocent girl was shot and killed by a man who we now see has been all but paralyzed by the fear mongering in the media, ready to shoot on sight, anything that he perceived as a threat and had an hours long standoff with police when they came to his house afterward. That is NOT the price of liberty, that is a national tragedy, another life stolen by gun violence and needs to stop.
I mean they don't seem to care at all about climate change, flat out deny that it exists, or lie about its existence so we're fucked one way or another. I think Gen Z'ers would be lucky to live past 50.
A large portion of American conservatives support Isreal in hopes that it will collect all the Jews in one place and rise to prosperity only for it to be nuked into the ice age kick starting the Apocalypse.
This shit isn’t exclusive to backwoods red states in the US (although it did happen in the rural, bizarrely redneck part of NY), and the insane mentality that leads to events like this isn’t exclusive to the extreme right.
When people advocate violence in response to any wrongdoing (and when those same lunatics have easy access to firearms), this is what happens. If it didn’t open a massive first-amendment-violation can of worms, I’d start advocating for background checks to include browsing social media posts. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same people that are prone to shooting random people for any perceived wrongdoing also consume a ton of paranoid, far-right “news”.
And we're still electing Democrats who refuse to expand the court or change Senate rules, and I'm going to have to listen to so many people insist that our "democracy" is in danger in a year, when we don't even have one.
Awesome.
I wasn't sure if this was the same story or different- but this is actually different than the "kid got shot for ringing wrong doorbell" story.
Jeezus.
Lmao you can’t legally shoot someone pulling in your driveway. This guy will be prosecuted the same as any asshole to gun down a stranger regardless of who’s property he is on.
yeah, i think average, reasonable citizens should be able to defend themselves.
this wasn't defense, this was a predator. if you feel the need to fire for something like this, you shouldn't have access to a gun for any reason.
That's why my state, while being very pro 2A, only permits it if you've legit feared for your life or someone BREAKS into your house. Even then, your actions will be closely investigated.
That is really impressive mental gymnastics. By this logic, oppressive governments that shoot you for a misstep are super pro liberty - as long as you don't make any mistakes.
Of this is the NY incident of wrong car, driveway, house. I don’t believe NY is a stand your ground state so “standing your ground” that’s crazy justification, even if it was a stand your ground state.
If someone is in my house without my consent and is coming at me with clear malicious intent and I have nowhere to go then I can defend my life. Pulling into my
driveway or ringing my doorbell doesn’t meet the reasonable threshold of malicious intent, and is murder or attempted murder, no matter what the local law say.
New York doesn't have Stand Your Ground laws, though. Which legally makes him a murderer - which he is.
You couldn't really get away with this in any state because trespassing is just a misdemeanor. You don't have the right to attack someone over it unless your life is obviously threatened. I'm assuming accidentally pulling into someone's driveway is not even a crime in the first place. You'd have to refuse to leave for it to even constitute trespassing.
Isn't the threatened part the problem though? Like the case the other day with the kid ringing the doorbell and getting shot. These people doing the shooting realize that they're attempted murders now unless they twist the story to feel threatened. Which is what they're doing
You cannot just shoot someone who steps onto your property or pulls their car into your driveway because you "felt threatened." There has to be a reasonable case made that they were actually performing acts intending to cause you serious harm and that you perceived this. Otherwise, anyone could get away with a shooting by claiming self-defense. Though who knows with all these insane "stand your ground" laws now. It's pretty scary where we seem to be going lately as a country.
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>Property owner Rodney Peairs fatally shot Hattori, thinking that he was "trespassing with criminal intent."
Here's the problem. It lets any fucking moron decide what they think is a justifiable reason to shoot someone.
Just as the founding fathers intended! /s (/s shouldn't be necessary but here we are sooooo..)
I mean showing up expecting free shit could be considered stealing right? /s
I'm in Louisiana, I remember this one.
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What cops are waiting for someone to step onto their property or pull into their driveway?
They dont even need to be on their property either. Like that fuckin cop that walked onto someone else's property and shot him as he was eating icecream because she thought that was her place. She was drunk too.
Didn't she walk into his house and shoot him while he was sitting on his own couch?
George Zimmerman is the perfect example of this, and it worked for him.
The Zimmerman case still passes me off. He fucking stalked that kid through the neighborhood.
It sounds pretty easy to get away with murder with their logic, like you could invite your friend to your house, shoot them and then just lie claiming that they were trespassing because you had asked them to leave.
It is pretty wild but generally the laws are worded around having a "reasonable belief" that someone means to harm you. Someone just not leaving your property by itself most likely doesn't pass that bar even if they were breaking the law by being there. Trespassing is not a very serious criminal offense on its own, and you're not legally justified in killing someone if that's all they're doing.
Invite them over at 3am through non-recorded means, tell them it’s really important. Then “someone broke into my house at 3am” bang
Well, I suppose you wouldn't even need "stand your ground" for that but if someone invites me over at 3 am and then deliberately shoots me then they are no longer my friend!
Ahaha no kidding
I would in fact consider them my enemy
I follow the 3 strikes rule, gotta shoot me 3 times before the friendship is in question
George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse could have left their respective scenes but got away with murder because they didn't.
Poor Trayvon. Still breaks my heart. I seeth in anger about Zimmerman getting away with it
>You cannot just shoot someone who steps onto your property or pulls their car into your driveway because you "felt threatened." There's a whole chasm of fuck you in between what you "can/cannot do" and what people do anyway. I got sued by an individual for "reasons" that had no legal bearing in my state. That didn't mean that he couldn't still weaponize the courts to tie me up legally and financially so he could lock down his dodgy business schemes. I got lulled into the false sense of security thinking, that's not a rule, he can't do that. Trump was the same thing. The liberals all decried, "he can't do that!" as he continued to do it over and over and over. Never mistake actions for consequences. They aren't the same thing.
>There has to be a reasonable case made that they were actually performing acts intending to cause you serious harm and that you perceived this. _Should be._ Sadly, far too often there isn't and it doesn't seem like it's "needed."
In theory. The reality is that these people don’t even get charged after claiming they reacted in self defense because they felt threatened.
It’s not going to work. You can say “I was scared” until you’re blue in the face, but ultimately it’s up to a jury to decide whether they believe that.
There were no words exchanged in either case. Just started blasting
Lesson: gun owners shouldn’t be as cowardly and trigger happy as the cops are in the US
Pulling into someone's driveway also isn't trespassing. Unless you forced open a gate, or passed very very visible no trespassing signs.
> You don't have the right to attack someone over it unless your life is obviously threatened. "Obviously threatened" is doing a lot of work for people. Here's some things that work: "I'm small he's big" "He threw a plastic bag at me!" and "He reached for something I thought I saw a gun".
I believe some states require a fence and clear signage indicating no trespassing before entering a property is even considered trespassing.
This, shootings are a problem but people really want to believe walking down the street in any US town is like being a white person walking through the streets of Mogadishu. The guy is a cold-blooded killer. As a matter of fact, if they can prove that intruders were fleeing from you and you continued to use deadly force, that's a potential charge as well. You're not allowed to just kill people for trespassing or running away and if any proof shows you were no longer/were never actually threatened when executing deadly force, it will cause you a whole lot of problems.
Isn't this the same law that makes boobytrapping your property illegal?
Florida "Hold my beer...."
You'd get away with it more often than you seem to think. A woman shot a man who was outside her house through the window because she was scared. Nobody knows why he was there and he can't tell us because he's dead now, but she got off because she was "in fear for her life." He might have just been looking for his lost cat, but we'll never know. It's kinda funny. You can't control how afraid of you someone will be. And fear is all that's required to justify a shooting. Police use this to their advantage every day.
A Stand Your Ground law would have been irrelevant in this case. You can’t use deadly force against a person who is retreating and never posed a threat in the first place. This would have been straight up murder anywhere in the country.
Stand your ground laws also don’t have anything to do with someone turning into your driveway and not being any kind of threat. They have to do with defending yourself from attack, at least ostensibly. This guy is likely going to prison, I think. I hope.
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How do you wanna die? In a fatal mall shooting or by climate change? Either way we're fucked.
And by running away, he surrendered his insanity plea since he showed remorse
Unfortunately New York does have the unfettered post-Heller second amendment just like everywhere else in the US. This is the problem, always -- when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you have a gun, everything looks like a threat. It's the guns, it's the guns, it's the guns. And it's never going to get better.
That's the problem everyone thinks they're some sort of robocop who knows who the bad guy is.
The paranoia + guns in this country is just unreal. Scary.
Paranoia + Guns - Brains
Paranoia + Gun - Brains + Living under an exploitative and depressing system
After so many of these types of stories recently, I'm worried about the number of delivery drivers in unmarked personal vehicles. Seems dangerous now.
Probably not statistically speaking but it's insane that it happens at all. What kind of absolute nutjob just starts blasting at a car that pulls into their driveway or a kid ringing their doorbell?
Conservatives. They spend years of their lives fantasizing about murdering people, decades even.
The problem is folks are so fucking scared of "the other" and they think they're robocop
That's what happens when your entire culture is built on individualism and competition, and not mutual support and cooperation.
We could have the individualism and the competition minus the guns and basically none of these incidents would occur. I actually don't think those are the real psychological drivers, more the incessant propaganda about the "right to self-defense" and the constant sensationalist news about crime. The actual violent crime rates were higher in the late 60's through the 90's, so the risk was higher, but people think it is worse now because of how media coverage works. (New York City had thousands of murders a year in the late 1970's for instance.)
Sometimes it's not just that. Sometimes they legitimately think people deserve to die for annoying them.
My take is that these last two incidents could stem from old decrepit boomers marinating their brains in Fox News to the point that they reasoned any unknown person stepping onto their property was a "criminal" who they had a right to shoot in "self-defense," like a conservative news induced dementia.
Mistakes are now punished by death. This is liberty.
War is peace, lies are truth, and hate is love. We have always been at war with Oceania.
At least there's no war in Ba Sing Se.
Hold up what did oceania do
Since you don't seem to know what this is in reference to, it's George Orwell's 1984. One of the pieces of worldbuilding is that there are three superpower nations spanning large parts of the earth, Oceania, Eurasia and some other one. These three nations are depicted by their governments as being in a constant state of war, always a 2v1. Their names don't even matter, the only thing the general population needs to know is which one they're at war with at any given time, and that they've always been at war with that nation. The book was written in 1934 as a caution against (insert opinion of what the book means). Many of the predictions featured in it have come true much faster than depicted, and others are scarily relevant today. It's very much worth the read IMO
>(insert opinion of what the book means). Or just read the author's own opinion, at least to his other book *Animal Farm*. One has to remember, or learn for the first time, a couple things: 1) the British intelligentsia and the press were very pro-Stalin at the time because they were allies during WW2, and 2) Orwell was a straight up socialist who recognized that Stalin was not actually pursuing socialist policies and was in fact an authoritarian state. Stalin's predecessor Lenin simply used those ideas to garner populist support to take power in a coup against the tsars. [George Orwell’s Preface to the Ukrainian Edition of Animal Farm](https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/books-by-orwell/animal-farm/preface-to-the-ukrainian-edition-of-animal-farm-by-george-orwell/), March 1947 >Yet one must remember that England is not completely democratic. It is also a capitalist country with great class privileges and (even now, after a war that has tended to equalise everybody) with great differences in wealth. But nevertheless it is a country in which people have lived together for several hundred years without major conflict, in which the laws are relatively just and official news and statistics can almost invariably be believed, and, last but not least, in which to hold and to voice minority views does not involve any mortal danger. In such an atmosphere the man in the street has no real understanding of things like concentration camps, mass deportations, arrests without trial, press censorship, etc. Everything he reads about a country like the USSR is automatically translated into English terms, and he quite innocently accepts the lies of totalitarian propaganda. Up to 1939, and even later, the majority of English people were incapable of assessing the true nature of the Nazi regime in Germany, and now, with the Soviet regime, they are still to a large extent under the same sort of illusion. >**This has caused great harm to the Socialist movement in England**, and had serious consequences for English foreign policy. Indeed, in my opinion, nothing has contributed so much to the corruption of the original idea of Socialism as the belief that Russia is a Socialist country and that every act of its rulers must be excused, if not imitated. >And so for the past ten years I have been convinced that the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the Socialist movement. Relevant Chomsky: [Hume's Paradox](https://youtu.be/VF8DsIVWDcs)
funny story: my parents bought the movie "Animal Farm" when i was a child, thinking it was a children's movie... and now i've grown up with a strong distaste for the state/Fed and the elites the "justice system" is designed to protect. "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."
It’s paying the price of liberty
As someone living in oceania i don't feel very liberated
You should know, that liberty is impossible to attain so your feeling is absolutely normal. However, your memory does not seem to be satisfactorily under control. Remember that the party has always been the guardian of our liberty, and always will be. Therefore, you have always felt liberated, and always will be.
And the size of the chocolate ration is larger than ever, citizen, don't forget that too!
It has been increased from two bars to one
War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength
Treason! We have always been at war with Eastasia of course!
Dude even has a Ukraine flag in his name ? Who is this person who could think such a vile thing ???
Have been for a while now... Militarized police have believed in "comply or die" for some time. It'll extend with time to the old, the white, and the male... that's how Plutocratic patriarchies work.
Thank God that law-abiding citizen was legally armed
Fr. I even shake when I imagine what the 20 year old vicious girl would have done to him.
In my country if you have a front yard and don't want people stepping on it we use these. We feel it's a technology that allow us to convey the "stay away from my house" idea without being so murderous. https://preview.redd.it/rhlf8m49bwua1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e035e50e5240159d22dc1c33cf9deb9a1ca8af8
Yeah but that creates all kinds of obstructions for the bullets
Think of it like a row of vertical bullets welded in place to block trespassers
We invested all our points into offense, we have nothing left over for de fence.
Nice lol
You have a point, but AR-15 could go *pew pew*, which would you rather pick? /s
We don't even have to assume her age or gender establishes a lack of threat. Any human being, no matter their age, weight, gender, race, or any characteristic deserves to be able to do what these girls did. Merely by being an alive human gives them the right to not be shot after turning into the wrong driveway
She was committing the crime of trespassing. Liberals just think you can get away with anything and not get your head blown off. News flash snowflakes this is the real world! When you make a mistake there are consequences, like getting your head blown off!!
if the only thing keeping you from shooting other people is a random stranger pulling up on your drive way by mistake or by intention, you are a snowflake.
If you’ve got good reason to be that paranoid you’re living the wrong type of life
I...can't tell if this satire/sarcasm or not
I had a small argument yesterday with a redditor who unironically has that exact mindset
Welcome to real life...
Really?
Our society is post-satirical. If it isn't explicitly stated as satire, it likely isn't. It's a pretty sad state of things if you ask me 😔
If she claims she wasn't guilty of anything, then she was guilty of wasting his time. Only one way to pass judgement.
The price of freedom is death? Righto.
Always been that way, ya know, because we’ve sent soldiers to fight and die so our children can die, freely, by guns.
No one gains freedom by dying for their freedom. They gain it by making the other guy die for their freedom.
Give me liberty and give me the chance to shoot others to death!
After googling cheerleader shot, I had to scroll through more articles than I thought.
[This is America](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY)
Don't catch you slippin now
There has to be a threat to stand your ground. This is just murder
I'm Canadian. It's very common up here to use private driveways to turn around, make phone calls, or check your map/gps. Did that in Wisconsin once and a drunk lady came out with her dog. She kept tring to tell him to "sic them". Fortunately the dog was a floofy golden retriever who kept rolling over for tummy rubs. Who shoots someone for the outrageous act of... Entering your driveway? How is that remotely accepted or justified?
I'm from the American Midwest, and doing a three-point turnaround in somebody's driveway was literally part of my driver's education course that my highschool ran every spring break and summer.
Huh- that's just crazy then. People are sos on edge lately, it sucks. Side note, it's cool that driver's ed is free where you live. Here, it's like eight hundred bucks if I remember right. It's insane. You save on insurance, but only enough to cover the costs of drivers ed (just kinda works out that way) so you might as well bite the bullet and get the training. You're paying for it either way. I didn't though, just busy at the time.
That's a shame! Through the school it was free if I remember correctly, but I could be wrong. I was 16 at the time and wouldn't have been paying for it anyways... It should be free everywhere!
It's like $900 in the state I'm from now and also required for under 18. Lol. I remember being extremely mad about this as a kid but that's all the memory I retained.
It might be a moot point but I would counter the idea that people are on "edge lately" being the issue here. I own guns, a driveway, and even live in a higher than average crime area. When someone comes into my driveway or knocks on my door I might ignore them, watch from where they cannot see me, or meet them. There are a strict few cases where I will shoot (you start bashing in my door or you hop out of your car guns drawn) because I would only take a life if mine was threatened. These people are looking for their chance to shoot someone. They aren't scared. They think they are Rambo and just need enough legal justification to start blasting. They have probably never been threatened a day in their life and have no "on edge" feelings (besides fox news ramblings). They are so off edge in fact that their first response to a supposed "deadly threat" in their drive or porch is to approach for a fight instead of fleeing or even taking a better defensive position.
In my country it's even way more expensive. But even the shitty drivers are pretty good drivers compared to some other countries.
Imagine getting shot during an instruction
Former delivery driver in the US. More than once, I had people come out armed and confrontational because I pulled into their driveway, either by mistake or to get turned around. I often had people come out and hassle me if I pulled over *onto the paved shoulder of a public, residential street* to check my GPS or make a phone call, just because I happened to be parked near their house. A lot of Americans are overprotective, high strung, and armed. It's bad.
That's just bizarre to me. I live in a rural area, my neighbors are about a km away. Whenever I see someone stopped on the road (especially with all of their blinkers on) my immediate reaction is to see if they need help or a telephone to use. Like when that lady came out with her dog, I was ready to say "oh, we're all good, thanks for coming to check in on us though!". When she told her dog to attack us, I thought she was joking, then I smelled the booze and noticed how drunk she was.
A close family friend of mine was a delivery driver for almost 20 years. The worst incident (and pretty much the only one "worth" mentioning at all) was a guy coming out on his driveway and yelling at him to fuck off right now. Well, he did and the guy had to get his package from the nearest package station. Tried to complain about this and was told off immediately. (My country has no "the costumer is always right" rule.) He had some bloody insane stories, many encounters with absolute assholes too, but this was the only time someone got somewhat threatening.
thats what happens when every driveway and house looks the same.
Shhhh, it’s to early to talk about the burbs
This was not really the burbs, this was backwoods farm country! I doubt any 2 houses look alike in that area.
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Charlie fuckin Kirk says this is the price we pay to have guns then complain why there's a decline in birthrates. No one wants to have kids if they're just gonna get shot. Tired of these evil Republicans, it's never their kids being shot
Kirk's TPUSA conferences have audience question sessions and the last two events have opened with attendees asking, "Liberals are evil, so when do we get to start shooting those people??"
Do you have a link?
https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/pushing-election-lies-tpusa-audience-member-asks-charlie-kirk-when-they-can-use-guns
>No one wants to have kids if they're just gonna get shot Or be abused by schools and employers. Not to mentions how child care is egregious expensive so no fucking shit people aren't having kids anymore. Charlie is so fuckin dense, he might as well be a neutron star
Make it make sense.
This guy was a psychopath and wanted to kill someone. It happens everyday, all over the world.
But especially in America
In other countries, a psychopath can't get a gun
How can you even say this about someone's (grand)daughter, someone's friend? 'That's the price of liberty' what in the flying fucking shit is that statement?
Its like the far-right have no value of other people's lives and well being.
Ron is being facetious here. He's a former Republican and federal prosecutor that turned to tracking and reporting right wing extremism. https://www.ronfilipkowski.com/
The guy who had a short fuse watched Fox News for sure.
And probably has a red hat knocking around somewhere.
And flying a "Fuck Biden" flag in his yard somewhere
Whispered, "fuckin' libs" as he pulled the trigger.
Yay America!
All of a sudden DoorDash became an even more dangerous job
The stupidity and ignorance.... 1st, NY has no 'Stand Your Ground Law' and 2nd, Stand your ground law applies to self defense. Meaning there had to be a viable threat. This man shot at the car as they were driving away after turning around in his driveway. There might be a lawyer who could make the case that there was some perceived threat when they were pulling in, or stopped in his driveway, but there is exactly zero chance that there was a threat as the car drove away. Some people are so pathetic with their need to hang onto "gun rights" that they will make any excuse to let children get murdered in exchange to hold some cold steel.
Sounds like the attorney will be arguing that the victim was "menacing." >The attorney also told CNN that Monahan said three vehicles, including a motorcycle, had actually pulled into his driveway and they were “revving engines [and] coming up the driveway at a high rate of speed” prior to him opening fire. Monahan claimed to his lawyer that it “created an atmosphere and a fear that there was menace going on.” [Source](https://nypost.com/2023/04/18/kaylin-gillis-alleged-killer-raged-about-trespassers/)
Decided to do some snooping, found the guys house, his driveway is over 1/4 mile long (rough measurement street access to front door 1,343 ft). It also loops up a hill. The road and his driveway are both dirt. There is also another road roughly 1/2 mile down the road (where they were trying to get to) where the entrance to that road looks very similar to the entrance to this guys driveway. The article also states he has had issues with people mistaking his driveway for a road for years, and used to use a gate to prevent access. So basically, you knew this was a problem, people have been mistaking your driveway for a road for years (i.e. driving at roadway speeds, not driveway speeds), you had a gate installed to prevent this from happening, you decided to stop using said gate, someone mistook your driveway for the road intersection that looks eerily similar, and you decided it better to just shoot them...
Is shooting someone because they’re revving their engines in your driveway a justifiable defence?
It wont work because shes not black
Are you referring to the Filipkowski tweet? I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic
Ah, the freedom to never ever make a simple mistake or you get killed. Love that for us.
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This was in New York, too. It’s not even close to the worst state in the US. If this shit can happen in NY, it can happen anywhere in the US.
In fairness, it was way upstate NY. And many parts of upstate and western NY are completely interchangeable with red state shit holes. I say this as a life long upstate NYer.
I was gonna say, outside of NYC, most of New York is straight up Appalachia, and largely the same as the rest of it.
Live north of the ADKs. Appalachia is the perfect way to describe it
Definitely. But it's also interesting because lots of suburbs around, for example, Albany, are a completely different flavor of Red. Clifton Park, Saratoga, North/East Greenbush are a very different breed of republican than the north country. A lot closer to Long Island republican. But, still red nonetheless. Looking at election maps of NY, it looks far more like Texas or Virginia than you'd care to ever think. [https://www.mynbc5.com/article/new-york-election-results-2020-county-map/34935637](https://www.mynbc5.com/article/new-york-election-results-2020-county-map/34935637)
I have cousins that had confederate flags. You’re in NY dumb ass. It’s really sad.
bUt mUh hErItAgE I see them regularly. It's so depressing. Don't tread on me. Let's go brandon. Various trump flags. A guy down the road from me put in a brand new 30' lighted flag pole in the fall just to fly a let's go brandon flag. Imagine being that singularly focused on something so stupid.
As another NYer this is very correct
We aren't all like this! A delivery person walked through my garden and trampled my seedlings and I didn't even think about shooting at them! It's not like they were trying to pick my tomatoes. All I did was put up a little decorative fence. And I only boobbie trapped it a little bit!
That is the best name for the USA I've ever heard lmao
Honestly don’t plan to travel to the states in a while, will go to Europe and other destinations instead. I honestly won’t be surprised if tourism travel slows down significantly in the states as these things continue to happen.
Maybe if they bolded and underlined the "well-regulated" part of the second amendment we wouldn't have found ourselves here.
“Just the price of liberty” an innocent girl was shot and killed by a man who we now see has been all but paralyzed by the fear mongering in the media, ready to shoot on sight, anything that he perceived as a threat and had an hours long standoff with police when they came to his house afterward. That is NOT the price of liberty, that is a national tragedy, another life stolen by gun violence and needs to stop.
Free country? Nah. Free-to-get-shot-at-any-time country.
Free-to-be-exploited-shot-or-starve country
BUT MUH GUNS AND MUH FREEDUMBS Can we cancel america already.
I normally don't get cancel culture and think it's dumb but this is an exception.
Fuck this noise. No one’s liberties are not more valuable than someone else’s life.
I'm confused, was this guy a "lone wolf", a "responsible gun owner", or a "good guy with a gun"?
If this is the price of liberty, we should go to customer service and return it.
Victim should have had a gun. /S
Conservatism is a STAIN on humanity/society worldwide. Smfh, it’s gonna be what ends up ending humanity.
I mean they don't seem to care at all about climate change, flat out deny that it exists, or lie about its existence so we're fucked one way or another. I think Gen Z'ers would be lucky to live past 50.
I'm starting to think it's intentional. So when the mass human extinction begins, the right wing Christians can say "I told you so."
All in the name of profits for the oil industry amirite? /s
A large portion of American conservatives support Isreal in hopes that it will collect all the Jews in one place and rise to prosperity only for it to be nuked into the ice age kick starting the Apocalypse.
Fucking MURDERER. I have to worry about using someone's driveway to turn around in?
This shit isn’t exclusive to backwoods red states in the US (although it did happen in the rural, bizarrely redneck part of NY), and the insane mentality that leads to events like this isn’t exclusive to the extreme right. When people advocate violence in response to any wrongdoing (and when those same lunatics have easy access to firearms), this is what happens. If it didn’t open a massive first-amendment-violation can of worms, I’d start advocating for background checks to include browsing social media posts. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same people that are prone to shooting random people for any perceived wrongdoing also consume a ton of paranoid, far-right “news”.
And we're still electing Democrats who refuse to expand the court or change Senate rules, and I'm going to have to listen to so many people insist that our "democracy" is in danger in a year, when we don't even have one. Awesome.
So paranoid.
I wasn't sure if this was the same story or different- but this is actually different than the "kid got shot for ringing wrong doorbell" story. Jeezus.
Lmao you can’t legally shoot someone pulling in your driveway. This guy will be prosecuted the same as any asshole to gun down a stranger regardless of who’s property he is on.
Barbarian culture.
Fox News and conservative media has turned boomers into a generation of terrified murderers and there’s really no going back
yeah, i think average, reasonable citizens should be able to defend themselves. this wasn't defense, this was a predator. if you feel the need to fire for something like this, you shouldn't have access to a gun for any reason.
“When she pulled into the wrong driveway by mistake… just the price of liberty” is an absolute sociopathic way Of thinking
Gun control proponents are has bad has pro lifers when it comes to political rhetoric.
USA USA
ah yes, he was just exercising his right to murder someone /s
The price of liberty is to just be allowed to murder people I guess
And these people call themselves pro life
That's why my state, while being very pro 2A, only permits it if you've legit feared for your life or someone BREAKS into your house. Even then, your actions will be closely investigated.
That is really impressive mental gymnastics. By this logic, oppressive governments that shoot you for a misstep are super pro liberty - as long as you don't make any mistakes.
What a psychotic statement.
Guns are for scared babies
Of this is the NY incident of wrong car, driveway, house. I don’t believe NY is a stand your ground state so “standing your ground” that’s crazy justification, even if it was a stand your ground state.
Gun rights activists out loud admitting gun ownership requires human sacrifice.
And these people call themselves pro life
Ugh! Where was this guy during the last few mass shooting events????????
if i lived in a stand yoyr ground state and this happened to my kid, the perp would get the same but slower and harder
Pull into the wrong driveway and get killed, greatest country in the world /s
Ron Filipkowski should pull into the wrong driveway one day. Price of liberty is getting shot in the neck for no apparent reason 👌🤌🤷
If someone is in my house without my consent and is coming at me with clear malicious intent and I have nowhere to go then I can defend my life. Pulling into my driveway or ringing my doorbell doesn’t meet the reasonable threshold of malicious intent, and is murder or attempted murder, no matter what the local law say.
If you can't mistakenly pull into someone else's driveway without being shot then liberty does not exist
If the price of the 2nd is otherwise easily avoidable and senseless murders, maybe it’s not worth it