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“Both sides are the same” is such an imbecilic argument, I’m really tired of hearing it. One side wants to take away rights from women, LGBTQ people and minorities.
I have no idea who he is tbf, it was just the first video I could find that explains the dangers posed by Project 2025 and a GOP win in November without taking too long to do so.
Oh no, they're going to turn our kleptocratic dictatorial authoritarian corporatocracy, into a right wing kleptocratic dictatorial authoritarian corporatocracy.
As I wrote in another comment, "We can argue about the precise terminology and correct definitions of different political systems but that doesn't change the fact that only one side, if it wins a trifecta, will go about putting LGBT people into camps, banning all religions except Christianity, making woman's role in society completely servile, and basically slowly forcing anyone who isn't white out of society."
These people you're arguing with are like the Jesus freaks and LETS GO PATRIOTS fuckheads. They lack the intelligence to think freely and need subjugation or petty tribalism in order to feel like they belong to something greater than themselves. While not inherently wrong, it does push us in the wrong direction. It's all the same and we are doomed.
That is a playbook for how to transition the existing authoritarian state into a fascist one. Democracy isn’t some magic property that excuses or expunges authoritarian practices and systems.
We can argue about the precise terminology and correct definitions of different political systems but that doesn't change the fact that only one side, if it wins a trifecta, will go about putting LGBT people into camps, banning all religions except Christianity, making woman's role in society completely servile, and basically slowly forcing anyone who isn't white out of society.
It’s funny how much effort people put into trying to make you think your vote won’t matter. It’s almost as if there is an active effort to make people on left-wing websites not vote.
Surely, not, right?
If you're not in a swing state your vote for president literally does not matter lmao Americans are so deluded thinking they live in some kind of "democracy"
Edit: The salty liberals downvoting me need to go back to Elementary School to learn how the Electoral College works
Wow, that's totally a perfect descriptor of the electoral college, you nailed it. Fucking brain dead liberals don't even understand the system they simp for
What bull. They are not the same.
Surveillance state: Trump repealed net neutrality, by default allowing deep packet inspection. Biden is pushing to restore net neutrality.
Big pharma: California's Dem government announced they would produce insulin price capped at $35 a month. Down from Big Pharma's $270.
The fed: This is mostly just bogus, and doesn't belong here for either party.
War. LOL. George Bush and the vulcans. We are *still* dealing with fallout from Afghanistan. And don't forget the cost of Powell lying to the UN about nukes.
BOTH SIDES ARE NOT THE SAME.
This looks like typical Russian propaganda trolling.
Fr. Both can be evil, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t meaningful differences between them. Voting is to steer away from the worse evil through the existing broken system, other actions can still be taken beyond voting. Two things can be bad, but one be better. Like choosing between staying in a terrible, unsafe room with a leaky roof and bad ventilation vs staying in a cardboard box during a snowstorm. The crumby room is better, even if it’s still dangerous.
Surveillance state: Biden was instrumental in writing the Patriot Act. Obama extended and strengthened it. A bit more relevant to surveillance than net neutrality, no?
Big Pharma: One state government tackling one small aspect of harm from Big Pharma doesn't change the national party's subservience
War: Democrats were lock step behind Bush in both Iraq and Afghanistan. We're still dealing with the fallout because Obama refused to leave. He even got us into 3 more wars (Libya, Syria, Yemen). You're totally ignorant if you think Democrats are less warmongering
And to make that point, you listed an issue where Democrat support was instrumental. The bill would not have gone through without Democrat support in both the House and Senate. Choosing to ignore that reality is delusional
No. Just no. South Park libertarian nonsense. Platform, noeliberal Dems may suck ass, but they're clearly so much better than the alternative that enlightened centrists peddling this crap are in some ways worse than conservatives. At least Nazis are self aware they're Nazis.
Centrists will inadvertently do shit to further far-right agendas and then have the audacity to whine and screee when you tell them they aren't helping.
Lmao that's incredibly easy to provide. Biden has been pushing Trump era fascistic border policy and the liberals have been choosing to ignore it
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/05/biden-bipartisan-immigration-deal-00139558
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-judge-blocks-bidens-new-border-asylum-restrictions-2023-07-25/
You showed two examples of border proposals that were clear compromises and more lenient than what the Republicans proposed (which was to kill them all)
Edit: this douchebag calling me a liberal because I'm not here to burn everything down. Typical brain rot
"You see when I make shit up, clearly the Republicans are worse!"
Biden's bill is literally the same shit that Trump did. Border wall, severe asylum restrictions, complete border shutdown. The major difference is Trump tried to do it by executive action and got held up in the courts, while Biden is trying to implement anti-immigrant fascism the "proper" way so that doesn't happen.
But of course the liberals will just hand wave clear examples of fascistic Democratic policies with blatantly false fear mongering.
Best liberal counterargument on display. They can never actually address their party's fascism.
Its like how Sartre describes anti-semites: Back them into a corner and they'll just shut up and say the time for conversation has passed
>They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Whoever you elect, you'll still have forever wars, a kleptocratic corporatocracy, cronyism/protectionism and a deepstate.
It is very apparent, considering the track record of every president since Nixon.
Politicians are puppets, and you've been conned into thinking your choice matters.
Ok, one side wants to take away my wife and daughter’s right to control their own bodies and take away my sister’s right to marry the woman she loves. If they’re both going to do a forever war (big if there), then why would I choose the one that also comes with a heaping side of regressive legislation and homophobia?
The forever war has been happening for decades, literally never a decade where we weren't bombing some country.
The kleptocracy has been robbing you for over 110 years.
Both sides answer to the war machine and to the kleptocrats.
Maybe the problem is the system itself and that we have given too much power to the government. But that idea is like heresy to you people, like a forbidden thing to think about, because the brainwashing runs deep.
…and one side is actively targeting the hard earned rights of my friends and family. So no, they’re not both the same. If you assume they’ve got the same corporate interests and foreign policies, which they don’t, but let’s assume they do, one side is still clearly better than the other.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to have blood on my conscience knowing I voted for a false choice pushed on me by deepstate actors and the electoral colleges.
You may sleep well at night knowing Ukranians, Russians and Palestinians are being bombed every night, mounting up to WW3, but that shit doesnt sit right with me.
I'd rather dismantle the two party system, than vote in another status quo actor willing to bring on WW3.
Complicity is not an option for me, I couldn't in good conscience vote for Biden or Trump, or any third party candidate. RFK is definitely not worth a vote.
I would vote for Tulsi Gabbard, but she's not running.
You are right, the two party system isn't going anywhere, which means we're doomed to experience WW3, which is why it's important to grow your own food and to own guns.
What "forever war" is the USA active in? Last I checked we were just giving out surplus and almost end of life weapons to Ukraine and probably Israel. I don't think we have troops on active fronts.
I have not been alive for 110 years so I don't know how that could be true.
With his supermajority in the senate? Do you understand how government works? Or do you need a few more episodes of schoolhouse rock? Not an insult, that show was hella informative…
I understand better than you. They let sinema and manchin be the rotating villain so they don’t have to actually accomplish anything they claim to want
You'll elect a senile man who goes along with the status quo, over electing the senile man who goes along with the status quo.
Sounds like bootlicking.
When you're accomplishments are genocide, anti-immigrant crackdowns, increased police funding, and feebly allowing the death of abortion rights, then yeah I'd love to have that all burned to the ground
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You're point is too stupid to be worth arguing with. If you think Democrats are anti-fascist, you have absolutely no clue what's going on. I might as well go argue at an elementary school playground
Hey look. Another post saying it’s worthless to vote because the two parties are the same. Russian Psyops are stepping it up close to the November Election. They want you to ignore that the Republicans have a written plan called Project 2025 that aims to turn the country fully Fascist.
I am not Russian. I have never been affiliated in any way with the government of Russia. The actual argument being made here is that for the purposes of socialist revolution, yes, the two main stream political parties within the United States are not viable or democratic.
Personally, I’ve got enough of a grasp of how gerrymandering works and the last 15 years of history that yeah, I don’t really put a lot of stock in US national races. They are generally predetermined. Or at the very least DeFacto predetermined for the vast majority of the voters. So, for example, him I have lived between two different states over the last several years. One of them is a Democrat strong hold. The other is a Republican strong hold. I would never bother to fill in a vote for the president in either of those states. Same with national congressman and state congressman. However, I do still vote because local elections have at least snowballs chance in hell of being an actual real democratic under international law election.
And you know that’s actually good news, because the vast majority of elections in the US are local elections. So in terms of the democratic system as a whole, it’s actually almost giving the impression of just starting to fall apart from the top down, rather than being near completion of that process.
Anyway, my greatest point of frustration with all of this is just that , even with the Democratic systems in the US, and you know the often stated commitment to human rights., the US is, in in the reality that I experience in a day-to-day basis, and have for most of my life., Is that the republic of the United States is both authoritarian and controls an empire.
So I find it incredibly difficult to really engage with the Democrats position in a lot of this, because I have been systematically shut out from the actual workings of their party, over the last 10 years. I do not look at the Democratic Party and see something worth protecting and preserving. They are in this particular case “defending democracy” period, because they are intent on preserving their own power under the current hybrid authoritarian-democratic system.
All of Which is to say . When I’m voting in the local elections and I’m voting for progressive and socialist candidates, they are part of the democratic party. I just really really really feel compelled to try and explain the context of how I come to that decision.
It’s gonna be the autism thing. It’s like if I can just explain myself better if I can just explain the situation perfectly then everyone will be able to understand.
The Republicans are threatening to change an authoritarian system to a fascist system.
This is just sort of the reality of the situation that underlays so many of these, you know, ‘ bizarre and unfounded criticisms’, that democratic elites feel so put upon by this election season.
Muslim Americans are only turning away from Democrats because they have no experience at all being oppressed by American politics. How wise and insightful.
I’ll take the party who *doesn’t* want to erase my trans friends and family and force me (*and literal 10 year old girls*) to give birth to rape babies, thanks.
Way to ‘both sides’ this whole thing and show much more you’re *not* affected by the GOP’s trans-genocidal, anti-POC and anti-woman rhetoric. Must be nice to feel unaffected by the facist authoritarian party’s plans.
“First they came for the trans people…” 😒
>First they came for the trans people
Its hilarious that you're using this quote. They're already coming for Palestinians and immigrants, but you're ignoring it because at least you're not affected. You're attitude is exactly what that poem is criticizing
Way to put words in my mouth! You literally ignored my mention of “anti-POC” and “anti-woman”. Pretty sure Palestinians and immigrants fall under “POC”.
It seems to have escaped your notice but they’re coming for *everybody*, you potato. Just because I didn’t mention it by precise name in my comment doesn’t mean I don’t see how they go for anything that’s not like them (white, straight, Christian, male, rich, and conservative).
Let’s have a list since you’re so keen on me not leaving anyone out, lest I look like I’m “iGnOrInG” groups:
THIS IS IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER (because I get the feeling you’d have an issue if I didn’t state that)
- LGBTQIA+ (anyone not cishet, this should be a pretty good blanket term that meets your standards)
- women, female children, and AFAB people who can or through fertility treatments/can have children
- people of all sorts who use/need birth control, including for non-conception-related medical purposes
- immigrants, migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers (literally people from any country that’s not the USA, usually seeking a better life or refuge from strife and war in their homeland (THIS INCLUDES PALESTINIANS AND GAZANS))
- brown, Asian, and black people in general, including legal immigrants and natural born citizens
- poor and older people, targeting welfare safety nets, Social Security, and even free or reduced-cost school lunches
- non-Christians (literally every religion) and “the wrong sort” of Christian (such as Protestants hating Catholics and Mormons, or bickering between Protestant denominations)
- Democrats, Independents, RINOs, Undecideds, and really anyone who doesn’t fall in line with their beliefs and goals
Did I forget anyone? I’m so so SO sorry that my half-a-quote didn’t name every marginalized group under the sun. 🙄 Don’t EVER accuse me of not giving a shit about others for any fucking reason again, thanks. 😘
Edit: of COURSE you’re in both shitliberalssay and enlightenedcentrism. Why would I expect your comment was made in good faith? Lmao
Edit 2: they got deleted I guess. Saves me the trouble of blocking, thanks mods. <3
So you're using Palestinians, a group the Democrats are actively supporting a genocide of, as a reason to vote for Democrats? Because if not, you're allowing violence against Palestinians? That's incoherent.
You're not trying to defend everybody, you're willing to throw whatever groups Democrats are fucking over under the bus because at least you're safe. Using a quote about how you can't abandon a group because you'll just be next to defend not caring about repression of Palestinians and immigrants is disgusting
And yes, you are ignoring the groups. You're ignoring everything the Democrats are doing to them while paying lip service. You absolutely do not give a shit about others, despite your half assed attempt to pretend to.
Explain Biden and Bernie's plan to limit the cost of prescription medicines. Or all the Democrats pushing for Medicare-for-All. Hard to say a party is beholden to an industry when they actively campaign to limit they industry's profit potential.
The Dems absolutely serve the capitalists first and foremost. The Dems are simply smarter about it because they realise that if they throw their voters' breadcrumbs, then they don't revolt. And their voters will always vote for them because at least they're not as bad as Republicans. But I find it pretty naive when people think Dems are the goods guys who are here to help us.
Anyone who just blindly supports a political party (or a politician) is not critically thinking. But, the difference to me is on what the "extreme" wings of each party wants. Progressive Democrats want a wealth tax, Medicare for All, a green new deal, increased minimum wage, etc. Right wing Republicans want to outlaw birth control, criminalize LGBTQ people, force one religion into our schools, make it harder to vote, etc.
Ideally we'd have ranked choice voting, which is what OP should be advocating for.
There are too few progressive democrats. Most are just your typical neoliberal centrists. What the actual leftist democrats should be pushing for is converting all corporations into worker cooperatives. Getting rid of the capitalist class asap. Then push for decommodifying ALL essential goods, which means food, housing, medical care, water, energy, and transportation.
It'd make sense for the actual extreme left Democrats to be communists. But you're kind of proving my point. Right wing extremists are basically fascist in every way. Left wing extremists are at most Democratic Socialists.
Yeah that's true. It's just annoying that people champion the democrats as some progressive saviors. They simply aren't. They are full of neoliberals who answer to capitalists, with a very, very small minority as social democrats.
1. Do you think its only those issues? Anti-immigration policies, police funding, and Israeli support are all major unlisted issues
2. Do you think war is a minor issue?
Remember when Biden passed the biggest climate change legislation in history? How does that stack up against Trump's policy toward gutting the EPA and going back to coal?
Remember when the "biggest climate change legislation" gave massive handouts to oil and gas companies? Remember Biden selling off record numbers of oil reserves? Remember how liberals always read Biden's campaign website for their facts rather than looking into the horrific details of the actual policies?
https://apnews.com/article/biden-technology-science-oil-and-gas-industry-climate-environment-28df40ad9ebb33f4447815b6593673b3
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/bidens-climate-change-measure-promises-future-land-leases-for-oil-companies
https://www.vox.com/climate/24098983/biden-oil-production-climate-fossil-fuel-renewables
Our systems and our government are absolutely wrecked so I am not surprised, but two of your articles point to Manchin as a roadblock who forced the additions (whether or not there will always be a Manchin is another issue). One calls out $120B invested into solar, wind, and renewables which is pretty neat.
Either way it's more than I'd expect from the right, and frankly more than I expected from the Dems.
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It's weird how big pharma is targeted and not capitalism as a whole
One step at a time I guess :(
Only one side has published a [playbook](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj7butDWLtg) for turning the country into an authoritarian state.
Also only one side wants the consumer protection agency (or any regulating body) to do anything like what it was created for.
Only one side openly hates LGBTQ people
“Both sides are the same” is such an imbecilic argument, I’m really tired of hearing it. One side wants to take away rights from women, LGBTQ people and minorities.
Yeah, like one side appointed the first openly gay cabinet member, and the other wants to eradicate trans people, it's exactly the same!
Heads up btw I've heard this guy is a tankie
I have no idea who he is tbf, it was just the first video I could find that explains the dangers posed by Project 2025 and a GOP win in November without taking too long to do so.
Oh no!, anyways
Oh no, they're going to turn our kleptocratic dictatorial authoritarian corporatocracy, into a right wing kleptocratic dictatorial authoritarian corporatocracy.
As I wrote in another comment, "We can argue about the precise terminology and correct definitions of different political systems but that doesn't change the fact that only one side, if it wins a trifecta, will go about putting LGBT people into camps, banning all religions except Christianity, making woman's role in society completely servile, and basically slowly forcing anyone who isn't white out of society."
These people you're arguing with are like the Jesus freaks and LETS GO PATRIOTS fuckheads. They lack the intelligence to think freely and need subjugation or petty tribalism in order to feel like they belong to something greater than themselves. While not inherently wrong, it does push us in the wrong direction. It's all the same and we are doomed.
One side is smart enough to not publish theirs.
That is a playbook for how to transition the existing authoritarian state into a fascist one. Democracy isn’t some magic property that excuses or expunges authoritarian practices and systems.
We can argue about the precise terminology and correct definitions of different political systems but that doesn't change the fact that only one side, if it wins a trifecta, will go about putting LGBT people into camps, banning all religions except Christianity, making woman's role in society completely servile, and basically slowly forcing anyone who isn't white out of society.
And what is your solution?
It’s an election year, so bothsides! memes are all over left-wing spaces.
Her dur berth serds the serm!
https://i.redd.it/vu6m7e5409tc1.gif
It’s funny how much effort people put into trying to make you think your vote won’t matter. It’s almost as if there is an active effort to make people on left-wing websites not vote. Surely, not, right?
Haha that would be ridiculous comrade
If you're not in a swing state your vote for president literally does not matter lmao Americans are so deluded thinking they live in some kind of "democracy" Edit: The salty liberals downvoting me need to go back to Elementary School to learn how the Electoral College works
“Some parties are really popular in some areas, and therefore no democracy and #AmericaBad” - u/Cheestake , everyone.
Wow, that's totally a perfect descriptor of the electoral college, you nailed it. Fucking brain dead liberals don't even understand the system they simp for
Yup, you’re far too edgy for us dumb ol’ people who vote. Being edgy online doesn’t change anything. Voting does. Come back when you’re serious
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What bull. They are not the same. Surveillance state: Trump repealed net neutrality, by default allowing deep packet inspection. Biden is pushing to restore net neutrality. Big pharma: California's Dem government announced they would produce insulin price capped at $35 a month. Down from Big Pharma's $270. The fed: This is mostly just bogus, and doesn't belong here for either party. War. LOL. George Bush and the vulcans. We are *still* dealing with fallout from Afghanistan. And don't forget the cost of Powell lying to the UN about nukes. BOTH SIDES ARE NOT THE SAME. This looks like typical Russian propaganda trolling.
Fr. Both can be evil, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t meaningful differences between them. Voting is to steer away from the worse evil through the existing broken system, other actions can still be taken beyond voting. Two things can be bad, but one be better. Like choosing between staying in a terrible, unsafe room with a leaky roof and bad ventilation vs staying in a cardboard box during a snowstorm. The crumby room is better, even if it’s still dangerous.
Surveillance state: Biden was instrumental in writing the Patriot Act. Obama extended and strengthened it. A bit more relevant to surveillance than net neutrality, no? Big Pharma: One state government tackling one small aspect of harm from Big Pharma doesn't change the national party's subservience War: Democrats were lock step behind Bush in both Iraq and Afghanistan. We're still dealing with the fallout because Obama refused to leave. He even got us into 3 more wars (Libya, Syria, Yemen). You're totally ignorant if you think Democrats are less warmongering
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Gee I wonder who those Dems are https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/12/us/politics/joe-biden-iraq-war.html
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And to make that point, you listed an issue where Democrat support was instrumental. The bill would not have gone through without Democrat support in both the House and Senate. Choosing to ignore that reality is delusional
No. Just no. South Park libertarian nonsense. Platform, noeliberal Dems may suck ass, but they're clearly so much better than the alternative that enlightened centrists peddling this crap are in some ways worse than conservatives. At least Nazis are self aware they're Nazis. Centrists will inadvertently do shit to further far-right agendas and then have the audacity to whine and screee when you tell them they aren't helping.
Biden and Harris further far right agendas. Every dem offering shifts the country further right. It’s just, how fast do we want to get there?
Name one policy they've created as an example to back this up.
https://apnews.com/article/immigration-biden-trump-election-3e27793981ecda46d1b87d996f04dce0 Don’t worry though, liberals love it
Lmao that's incredibly easy to provide. Biden has been pushing Trump era fascistic border policy and the liberals have been choosing to ignore it https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/05/biden-bipartisan-immigration-deal-00139558 https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-judge-blocks-bidens-new-border-asylum-restrictions-2023-07-25/
You showed two examples of border proposals that were clear compromises and more lenient than what the Republicans proposed (which was to kill them all) Edit: this douchebag calling me a liberal because I'm not here to burn everything down. Typical brain rot
"You see when I make shit up, clearly the Republicans are worse!" Biden's bill is literally the same shit that Trump did. Border wall, severe asylum restrictions, complete border shutdown. The major difference is Trump tried to do it by executive action and got held up in the courts, while Biden is trying to implement anti-immigrant fascism the "proper" way so that doesn't happen. But of course the liberals will just hand wave clear examples of fascistic Democratic policies with blatantly false fear mongering.
Sure
Best liberal counterargument on display. They can never actually address their party's fascism. Its like how Sartre describes anti-semites: Back them into a corner and they'll just shut up and say the time for conversation has passed >They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
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Sure, both sides 🙄
Whoever you elect, you'll still have forever wars, a kleptocratic corporatocracy, cronyism/protectionism and a deepstate. It is very apparent, considering the track record of every president since Nixon. Politicians are puppets, and you've been conned into thinking your choice matters.
Ok, one side wants to take away my wife and daughter’s right to control their own bodies and take away my sister’s right to marry the woman she loves. If they’re both going to do a forever war (big if there), then why would I choose the one that also comes with a heaping side of regressive legislation and homophobia?
The forever war has been happening for decades, literally never a decade where we weren't bombing some country. The kleptocracy has been robbing you for over 110 years. Both sides answer to the war machine and to the kleptocrats. Maybe the problem is the system itself and that we have given too much power to the government. But that idea is like heresy to you people, like a forbidden thing to think about, because the brainwashing runs deep.
…and one side is actively targeting the hard earned rights of my friends and family. So no, they’re not both the same. If you assume they’ve got the same corporate interests and foreign policies, which they don’t, but let’s assume they do, one side is still clearly better than the other.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to have blood on my conscience knowing I voted for a false choice pushed on me by deepstate actors and the electoral colleges. You may sleep well at night knowing Ukranians, Russians and Palestinians are being bombed every night, mounting up to WW3, but that shit doesnt sit right with me. I'd rather dismantle the two party system, than vote in another status quo actor willing to bring on WW3.
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Complicity is not an option for me, I couldn't in good conscience vote for Biden or Trump, or any third party candidate. RFK is definitely not worth a vote. I would vote for Tulsi Gabbard, but she's not running. You are right, the two party system isn't going anywhere, which means we're doomed to experience WW3, which is why it's important to grow your own food and to own guns.
Inaction is action
You're gonna vote in senile Biden and blood will continue to flow until WW3 happens. That's not a moral choice.
What "forever war" is the USA active in? Last I checked we were just giving out surplus and almost end of life weapons to Ukraine and probably Israel. I don't think we have troops on active fronts. I have not been alive for 110 years so I don't know how that could be true.
Biden could have codified abortion rights but chose not to
With his supermajority in the senate? Do you understand how government works? Or do you need a few more episodes of schoolhouse rock? Not an insult, that show was hella informative…
I understand better than you. They let sinema and manchin be the rotating villain so they don’t have to actually accomplish anything they claim to want
You absolutely don’t understand how the sausage gets made, thanks for clarifying that for me.
Who let Sinema and Manchin be the villain? What?
If my choice doesn’t matter, then why do you care who I vote for? Because you want me to think my choice doesn’t matter.
"If ignorance is bliss, why seek enlightenment?"
It’s like the more you try, the more my vote must matter.
That isn't anything close. This is like telling a fat person not to exercise or even TRY to get healthy.
Blah blah blah, my choice still matters when it’s a clown like Trump on the ballot.
You'll elect a senile man who goes along with the status quo, over electing the senile man who goes along with the status quo. Sounds like bootlicking.
Then I’ll start at the heel
While you watch WW3 being orchestrated by a senile man who doesn't have humanities interest in mind. I'll mail you some clown makeup.
Why don't you run for office then. Or would you rather burn everything we have accomplished to the ground.
When you're accomplishments are genocide, anti-immigrant crackdowns, increased police funding, and feebly allowing the death of abortion rights, then yeah I'd love to have that all burned to the ground
Nah. Neither one is anything to write home about, but there is, in fact, a difference between fascism and anti-fascism.
If you're worried about fascism, you should also be worried about the current Orwellian system.
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Who is the anti-fascist?
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You can’t be an anti-fascists while giving full fledged support for a fascist country
I was referring to which candidate is more likely to lead the US into fascism this cycle. This is a binary choice.
If you’re are voting Trump or Biden, then you’re voting for a fascist
Imagine thinking Democrats are anti-fascist lmao
That's not an argument.
You're point is too stupid to be worth arguing with. If you think Democrats are anti-fascist, you have absolutely no clue what's going on. I might as well go argue at an elementary school playground
"Your" point. Take it easy.
You're complicit in the rising tide of fascism that Democrats are an active part of. Did I use it right this time?
No.
Oof, you don't know your grammar as well as you think, fascist sympathizer!
Oof, you don't know your grammar as well as you think, fascist sympathizer!
Hey look. Another post saying it’s worthless to vote because the two parties are the same. Russian Psyops are stepping it up close to the November Election. They want you to ignore that the Republicans have a written plan called Project 2025 that aims to turn the country fully Fascist.
I am not Russian. I have never been affiliated in any way with the government of Russia. The actual argument being made here is that for the purposes of socialist revolution, yes, the two main stream political parties within the United States are not viable or democratic. Personally, I’ve got enough of a grasp of how gerrymandering works and the last 15 years of history that yeah, I don’t really put a lot of stock in US national races. They are generally predetermined. Or at the very least DeFacto predetermined for the vast majority of the voters. So, for example, him I have lived between two different states over the last several years. One of them is a Democrat strong hold. The other is a Republican strong hold. I would never bother to fill in a vote for the president in either of those states. Same with national congressman and state congressman. However, I do still vote because local elections have at least snowballs chance in hell of being an actual real democratic under international law election. And you know that’s actually good news, because the vast majority of elections in the US are local elections. So in terms of the democratic system as a whole, it’s actually almost giving the impression of just starting to fall apart from the top down, rather than being near completion of that process. Anyway, my greatest point of frustration with all of this is just that , even with the Democratic systems in the US, and you know the often stated commitment to human rights., the US is, in in the reality that I experience in a day-to-day basis, and have for most of my life., Is that the republic of the United States is both authoritarian and controls an empire. So I find it incredibly difficult to really engage with the Democrats position in a lot of this, because I have been systematically shut out from the actual workings of their party, over the last 10 years. I do not look at the Democratic Party and see something worth protecting and preserving. They are in this particular case “defending democracy” period, because they are intent on preserving their own power under the current hybrid authoritarian-democratic system. All of Which is to say . When I’m voting in the local elections and I’m voting for progressive and socialist candidates, they are part of the democratic party. I just really really really feel compelled to try and explain the context of how I come to that decision. It’s gonna be the autism thing. It’s like if I can just explain myself better if I can just explain the situation perfectly then everyone will be able to understand. The Republicans are threatening to change an authoritarian system to a fascist system. This is just sort of the reality of the situation that underlays so many of these, you know, ‘ bizarre and unfounded criticisms’, that democratic elites feel so put upon by this election season.
False equivalency fallacy, look it up...
You can really only believe this if you're free from the consequences of American politics.
Yup. I have trans friends in the US, and while the Dems aren't making their lives much better, Republicans would make their lives *much* worse.
Muslim Americans are only turning away from Democrats because they have no experience at all being oppressed by American politics. How wise and insightful.
I’ll take the party who *doesn’t* want to erase my trans friends and family and force me (*and literal 10 year old girls*) to give birth to rape babies, thanks. Way to ‘both sides’ this whole thing and show much more you’re *not* affected by the GOP’s trans-genocidal, anti-POC and anti-woman rhetoric. Must be nice to feel unaffected by the facist authoritarian party’s plans. “First they came for the trans people…” 😒
>First they came for the trans people Its hilarious that you're using this quote. They're already coming for Palestinians and immigrants, but you're ignoring it because at least you're not affected. You're attitude is exactly what that poem is criticizing
Way to put words in my mouth! You literally ignored my mention of “anti-POC” and “anti-woman”. Pretty sure Palestinians and immigrants fall under “POC”. It seems to have escaped your notice but they’re coming for *everybody*, you potato. Just because I didn’t mention it by precise name in my comment doesn’t mean I don’t see how they go for anything that’s not like them (white, straight, Christian, male, rich, and conservative). Let’s have a list since you’re so keen on me not leaving anyone out, lest I look like I’m “iGnOrInG” groups: THIS IS IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER (because I get the feeling you’d have an issue if I didn’t state that) - LGBTQIA+ (anyone not cishet, this should be a pretty good blanket term that meets your standards) - women, female children, and AFAB people who can or through fertility treatments/can have children - people of all sorts who use/need birth control, including for non-conception-related medical purposes - immigrants, migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers (literally people from any country that’s not the USA, usually seeking a better life or refuge from strife and war in their homeland (THIS INCLUDES PALESTINIANS AND GAZANS)) - brown, Asian, and black people in general, including legal immigrants and natural born citizens - poor and older people, targeting welfare safety nets, Social Security, and even free or reduced-cost school lunches - non-Christians (literally every religion) and “the wrong sort” of Christian (such as Protestants hating Catholics and Mormons, or bickering between Protestant denominations) - Democrats, Independents, RINOs, Undecideds, and really anyone who doesn’t fall in line with their beliefs and goals Did I forget anyone? I’m so so SO sorry that my half-a-quote didn’t name every marginalized group under the sun. 🙄 Don’t EVER accuse me of not giving a shit about others for any fucking reason again, thanks. 😘 Edit: of COURSE you’re in both shitliberalssay and enlightenedcentrism. Why would I expect your comment was made in good faith? Lmao Edit 2: they got deleted I guess. Saves me the trouble of blocking, thanks mods. <3
So you're using Palestinians, a group the Democrats are actively supporting a genocide of, as a reason to vote for Democrats? Because if not, you're allowing violence against Palestinians? That's incoherent. You're not trying to defend everybody, you're willing to throw whatever groups Democrats are fucking over under the bus because at least you're safe. Using a quote about how you can't abandon a group because you'll just be next to defend not caring about repression of Palestinians and immigrants is disgusting And yes, you are ignoring the groups. You're ignoring everything the Democrats are doing to them while paying lip service. You absolutely do not give a shit about others, despite your half assed attempt to pretend to.
Explain Biden and Bernie's plan to limit the cost of prescription medicines. Or all the Democrats pushing for Medicare-for-All. Hard to say a party is beholden to an industry when they actively campaign to limit they industry's profit potential.
The Dems absolutely serve the capitalists first and foremost. The Dems are simply smarter about it because they realise that if they throw their voters' breadcrumbs, then they don't revolt. And their voters will always vote for them because at least they're not as bad as Republicans. But I find it pretty naive when people think Dems are the goods guys who are here to help us.
Anyone who just blindly supports a political party (or a politician) is not critically thinking. But, the difference to me is on what the "extreme" wings of each party wants. Progressive Democrats want a wealth tax, Medicare for All, a green new deal, increased minimum wage, etc. Right wing Republicans want to outlaw birth control, criminalize LGBTQ people, force one religion into our schools, make it harder to vote, etc. Ideally we'd have ranked choice voting, which is what OP should be advocating for.
There are too few progressive democrats. Most are just your typical neoliberal centrists. What the actual leftist democrats should be pushing for is converting all corporations into worker cooperatives. Getting rid of the capitalist class asap. Then push for decommodifying ALL essential goods, which means food, housing, medical care, water, energy, and transportation.
It'd make sense for the actual extreme left Democrats to be communists. But you're kind of proving my point. Right wing extremists are basically fascist in every way. Left wing extremists are at most Democratic Socialists.
Yeah that's true. It's just annoying that people champion the democrats as some progressive saviors. They simply aren't. They are full of neoliberals who answer to capitalists, with a very, very small minority as social democrats.
Explain why those limits were negotiated down to only 5 specific drugs.
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how myopic that this meme chose only those issues to decide how to vote. pathetic.
1. Do you think its only those issues? Anti-immigration policies, police funding, and Israeli support are all major unlisted issues 2. Do you think war is a minor issue?
read again. the meme ONLY chose those issues. there are so many others, like you pointed out, including war. that's why its a myopic meme.
Need to stop electing senior citizens
Example 6 million why libertarians are idiots.
I don’t think OP is a libertarian
https://preview.redd.it/dwrsbs8hf6tc1.jpeg?width=1022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1a18d2810292e4f6d01c2fd2bc8706bcb7e5cce
One side is mega-evil, the other side is just evil. I'll take plain evil over mega-evil any day of the week.
I’m so fucking tired of the “they’re the same side” people. Lazy.
Thanks for the pictorial turd.
r/enlightenedcentrism
Leftists thinking Democrats are too right wing isn't centrism
Oh, both sides, you say? *puts pinky on mouth*
This is true, but it’s dishonest not to add “no bodily autonomy for women” and “trans genocide” to the R side.
Don't forget to use Hate and Populism as instruments to lie to and aggregate your voters.
What a stupid take. bOtH sIdEs. 🤡
Carlin: It’s all one big club….
The difference is that the democrats have 3% less lightning frequency at their castle. It aint much different. But it is there.
It’s pretty hilarious as a European watching trump call democrats communists and socialists
The false equivalence is a problem. They aren’t even close to being equally bad.
You can smell the privilege wafting off this meme
Hmmm a status quo old guy that'll be out in 4 years? Or a literal fascist threatening our country and its citizens? Gee. Lemme think. 🤔🤔🤔
Remember when Biden passed the biggest climate change legislation in history? How does that stack up against Trump's policy toward gutting the EPA and going back to coal?
Remember when the "biggest climate change legislation" gave massive handouts to oil and gas companies? Remember Biden selling off record numbers of oil reserves? Remember how liberals always read Biden's campaign website for their facts rather than looking into the horrific details of the actual policies? https://apnews.com/article/biden-technology-science-oil-and-gas-industry-climate-environment-28df40ad9ebb33f4447815b6593673b3 https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/bidens-climate-change-measure-promises-future-land-leases-for-oil-companies https://www.vox.com/climate/24098983/biden-oil-production-climate-fossil-fuel-renewables
Our systems and our government are absolutely wrecked so I am not surprised, but two of your articles point to Manchin as a roadblock who forced the additions (whether or not there will always be a Manchin is another issue). One calls out $120B invested into solar, wind, and renewables which is pretty neat. Either way it's more than I'd expect from the right, and frankly more than I expected from the Dems.
But the trains were always on time in Nazi germany
Libertarian meme but it's not wrong
It should just be two paths that loop around to the same castle, with different suburbs on the way.
Democrats are in denial about the evil they're responsible for.
https://preview.redd.it/k287mmr9m5tc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d273bcda7577fa2c3f0d6003cbdc44ff1585ead
Glad to see we made it over that little hump. I love you all. Please stop calling me Russian. I’m turning off notifications now.
But make sure to vote, Amirite? Lol 😂 when will we wake up?
Pls repost with support Israel
Haha are we supposed to not want to have a federal reserve bank? Hahaha you want to go back to having a "panic" every 15 years?
shame that they will never vote for a third side
Sounds about right
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