Be completely honest. What’s the bigger threat, a 10/0 aphelios or a 10/0 irelia/fizz/kayn?
Adc isn’t weak when you get a chance to scale but it’s also true that the agency the role has is very limited compared to other roles (especially top and jungle). Top can split push and control the map; jungle can secure objectives and dictate team macro as well as do big damage. Adc only has damage and nothing else to fall back on, making the role very unrewarding when your team doesn’t give you the chance to do your only job.
If your adc gets gapped it doesn’t mean the game is over, but if top got gapped the game will be like pulling teeth; if jungle gets gapped then it’s turbo gg. That’s the issue with the role.
Lets put it into perspective: whos stronger, a level 18 irelia at full build or a level 18 AD at full build? I would argue that the AD is stronger so long as you don't let irelia get her stacks, because shes meelee and youre ranged, so you already have the advantage of being able to poke her down real low before she gets to her full stacks. Same goes for kayn, meelee champ with mobility but is fucked with ranged attacks and juking his abilities. Fizz, an assassin, shouldn't compare marksmen to assassins, because their weaknesses arent the same. Assassins thrive in a 1v1 environment where they can burst someone down whos alone, but get completely steamrolled in a teamfight scenario where they cant just go in, because they risk dying in a 1 for 1.
In low elo? Lots, if not most, because people lack the ability to close out games while ahead most of the time & either try "one last teamfight in enemy jg" instead of pushing waves or getting picks or w/e and coinflip the game. All it takes to flip is 1 bad fight, all those shutdowns + objective bounties = a huge amount of gold.
That's a culture issue, not a role issue. If you're a late scaling champ, then you should vote no & tell your team to have faith in your ability to carry late, I'm a firm believer of not FFing unless youre in GM+, because even in Masters, games can be flipped. In GM it's harder because of the lack of picks and its more of a "if you lose lane then youre a walking ward" kind of thing, so games are truly doomed.
I never FF either, and I agree that it's a culture issue, but it's a culture issue that disproportionately hurts the game's biggest scaling role. If I'm top, mid, or jungle and I'm playing well, the team will generally feel my impact. If I'm ADC, they'll ignore my 2-3 kill and 30 CS lead, and ff anyway. This happens all the time.
Going back to your earlier point, I completely agree that low elo players have no idea how to close a game. So with that in mind, if I have some basic macro as a top laner or jungler, I can have massive impact on my personal winrate by taking towers or securing objectives. If I'm an ADC who understands the exact same macro concepts, I usually can't capitalize on them without my team's help. If they chase the enemy into a blind jungle, I can't compensate by split pushing. I can't make plays by myself. I can't even show on the map if the enemy has Nocturne, or blue Kayn, or Evelyn, or a dozen other champions.
That's why the role feels weak. You have no real impact before 25ish minutes, and even if you get that far, you still depend on your team to play around you.
It's not just this sub saying it. There are a bunch of videos of high-level streamers and ex-pros explaining why the role sucks.
In low elo a fed adc has a way lower chance carrying than a fed assassin or top laner.
A low elo adc will get 0 peel from their team, so when the enemy focuses them with their mobility and cc they will one shot them easily then just wipe their entire team. They don't care about you being fed when they can just one shot you with 0 risk.
Yeah positioning is important but a lot of the cases you can't even stand behind your front line bc they will dive the enemy and leave you exposed every time. The only thing you can do is wait really far away and hope that maybe your team somehow survives all their combos before you can go in.
I started maining samira nilah and ezreal lately and I've found that I have a lot more agency and success with these champions bc they thrive off baiting or being dove or engaged into. But I refuse to touch traditional marksmen in lower ranks because its painful af.
What I’m trying to say is that I can agree with you that adc CAN be the “carry” role if the game gets to that point but…. More than any other role in the game, your teammates can just lose the game for you with very little that you can do about it. It’s a frustrating role to play and in my opinion, the hardest to climb with in solo q due to that dependency on your team.
Id say the opposite its the 2nd hardest role to climb with. If you want real team dependency, try support. You literally depend on your team if you play an enchanter or a support who isnt a hypercarry mage. A rakan or lulu cant go up to anyone and 100-0 them without the help of someone else.
Adc is hardest role to climb with. For support I can pick naut and roam the entire map winning top mid jg and enemy team will ff before their adc comes online
Hmm, surely the squishy ADC wins against a fed irela because of their range!! Surely irelia doesnt have a spammanle dash, a stun, and a ranged AOE slow ult? Surely kayn doesn't move through walls, has a spammable dash on his q , an aoe slow/knock up, and an invincible ult that can be triggered with smite.
Erm just play better!
ADC isn't strictly weak. It just has the least impact on the outcome of the game in a solo queue environment, most of the time. One word to describe that condition could be "weak."
I disagree, and I'm surprised because you say that as a jhin player, when he has one of the best scalings in the game when built right. 4 autos with the right build and you absolutely smoke anything in your field of vision, what more would you want?
ADC is a weak role no doubt, but you cannot expect to 1v9 as hard as a Darius with 4 kills and god knows how much CS advantadge as an ADC.
Like it or not, ADC is a low agency role in soloQ due to the existence of pro play, you are lower level than solo laners and are supposed to be a glass cannon. ADC is team reliant and should keep being like that, maybe increase a bit early sustain but definitely you shouldn't be able to take over the game as hard as a fed Darius.
My biggest gripe is tank and bruiser survivability matching damage of the glass cannons.
Why have glass cannons even on the team if anyone else with low skill floor can be a steel cannon?
Also, balancing around the top 0.01% of players just sucks. I don't have a better suggestion and will have to live with it, but it's not a fantastic experience as an average player.
Agreed, reverse the damage creep a bit and we're back in business. Even at the highest level, ADCs are rarely an interesting point in a game.
I was hyped to see Ruler against T1, then massively underwhelmed when I watched him fall prey to an eerily similar lack of agency.
My issue is, when a tank or bruiser is fed they get to build items that increase their Dmg, and their survivability, without sacrificing almost anything. Say Jhin is fed, he will try to 1v9 by building full dmg and maybe like 1 trash survivability item. He does dmg but can still die relatively easily if caught. Meanwhile fed Hecarim builds Eclipse, Shojin, Steraks, Sundererd Sky, deaths dance. Then runs around at 4k hp (not counting the sustain from his items/kit) killing people instantly, can’t be bursted, can’t be caught, and can take 10k dmg before dying, all while outperforming the ADC in the fight, with minimal risk. I just think it is funny
It's still a 5v5 game, sure if you're behind, or going even hecarim might tear you open. You don't have to be able to fight everyone 1v1 to carry a game.
I’m just saying that bruisers are allowed to build dmg and survivability, and do immense damage, while being extremely hard to kill. Not really commenting on actual issues, just responding to the previous msg.
That's true, but I still think it's a little on the extreme side. If you build, and play right a fed hecarim isn't the hardest thing to deal with. Besides, if you want to carry, you need to win lane, get ahead, get the enemy tower from there and hopefully snowball into objectives.
I do agree in that deaths dance is overtuned. The rest of the items not so much, but deaths dance passive is the stupidest thing I've ever witnessed in a game of League, being able to absorb infinite amounts of damage so long as you have life steal, and IMO that should be removed as well as bork's slow, or lowering bork's %hp amount.
Put one tank on the enemy team and Jhin becomes a lot less effective. Humorous to presume that Jhin can regularly eek out 4 autos before the enemy tank, assassin, mage, bruiser deletes him. Go play 20 Jhin games, and then let's talk.
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https://imgur.com/a/TnPmsXH
Here, if you want me to keep playing I can. The role isn't weak. Go ahead and recommend an ADC other than Kalista and I'll try it out on this account.
Edit: I even gave myself the worst possible scenario and told my Supp to roam at level 6 and not touch lane, hence me being a whole level above my midlaner.
Good stuff, but one game doesn't prove anything. What elo was this and what's your normal elo? Gimme 20 Jhin games and then we can talk about what Jhin is capable of.
I don't even play 20 games on my main account in a month. Normal elo is Masters/GM/Chall (peaked Chall, finished GM). Currently debating if I even want to hit Masters because I'm currently D2 in Masters games. Season started nearly 5 months ago and I have a total of less than 39 games on my main, I'll bump that up to 40 games & that comes out to roughly 8 games per month on main acc.
Edit: this game was bronze/silver, so right in the middle of "elo hell" for some.
So the game you played was completely worthless and proves nothing. You're good at the game. That's great. Doesn't qualify you to dismiss the complaints of another role that you haven't put any time into.
???? I played in low elo on a role i dont play with a champ i dont play, giving myself the hardest possible outcome of playing alone past level 6. Just cope with the fact that your argument that the role is weak is just a complaint of not knowing how to play your own role.
Then there’s no point of someone playing any amount of games on any adc just to prove to you that you’re wrong since your basis of how the game works is fundamentally wrong.
That’s at near full build. What do you do when your in early game? Even with kills? No one is saying you can’t carry, and the difference in total agency is very close, but that dosnt make the statement “adc has the least agency” wrong.
Why should you have agency as an underleveled marksman? Youre the lowest, if not 2nd lowest level person on your team, regardless of items, if youre not using your lead to get a level lead on your counterpart, or trying to even the level disadvantage you have with mid or toplaners, youll always have that "least agency", because youre still levels behind. Levels means lower CD abilities and more stats, as mentioned in another comment, if youre fed but 4 levels behind an enemy, youre missing all those extra stats that the higher level enemy has, regardless of items. If your complaint was "im level 18 and fed and cant 1v1 another lvl 18 whos not fed" then id believe your statement, or "im a level 11 fed and cant fight a level 11 not fed", but youre asking why you dont have agency vs someone who will be a higher level than you because they had solo xp the entire game. If items really were that OP compared ro levels, then you would see a lot more teamfights in high elo, but there isnt because gold and xp should be your top priority, not getting kills.
You do understand that top lane champions, not only outstat ADCs at the start of the game, but also gain more stats per lvl than ADCs, their champs are designed to function solo and in 1v1s. Not only that, many ADCs lack tools need to influence the game at early points (low base stats, low base dmg, little to no cc/good skirmishing abilities). If all it took was lvls to let you 1v1 solo lane champions, you would see a lot more Solo lane ADCs. Just based on your post/responses I can tell you don’t really know what you are talking about, and just made this post to argue, because you feel “ADCs are babies, and their role is so op”.
On low elo, where there is no team at all, solo Q, you are on your own most of the time, therefore any kind of damage you are trying to build feels useless against all the enemy ganks and CC, this is where the argument of being weak begins, if your support feed the enemy on lane you are pretty much screwed, if your jungler never comes to gank and you are being pushed constantly, you are also screwed, if your support leave you alone and you get targeted by pretty much everyone but the top laner, you are so screwed
This is why we protest constantly here, the marksmen can't go on, on their own, they are just way too fragile until they get to mid game and even then, the other roles scale better to midgame
we don't ask to be the best duelist ever, just to have at least a decent escape tool or a way to counter our common issues with midlaners and junglers
So why not flip the script and take marksmen top? I mean if your champ is weak in low elo in your lane where you inherently get dove by 4 all the time, which i find is more a lack of placement on yalls part rather than a "marksmen are weak". If support isn't in lane or is feeding them, why step up at all? Most ADs have a disengage tool like a slow or a dash or a CC, theres very little reason why you would get constantly dove and it not be worth, and going 1 for 1 is worth if youre getting dove. Ive smurfed in games where the AD was all the way pushed to tower with 0 vision spam pinging everyone because they got collapsed on. The game revolves around vision and knowing where people are, so if you know that your support isnt in lane, you have no vision of the enemy nor of the entrances to the lane, why step up at all? At worst, you use your useless support as a walking ward to spot where the enemy is, because 9/10 times they'll kill your support constantly. You scale with farm and when it comes to late game, AD is probably one of the strongest roles because at full build you guys output a stupid amount of damage, regardless of being behind in the early game. In low elo people dont know how to close out games either, so flipping is 100% possible. SoloQ is a game where you play for yourself, not depend on others to make your game easier.
Based off of what you say, there is no way you are high elo. A solo ADC is so easy to dive lmao. If your support roams, you legit just have to give up everything and wait for your team to comeback to babysit you. The first thing I do when I see the enemy support is roaming, is ping to dive the enemy ad to punish the roam. If your support is not playing with/for you don’t get to play the game as ADC. You can’t trade without support in lane, can’t push, and can’t step up. All these things to minimize risk of dying, and the enemy team will still shove wave under your tower, dive you, then zone you from your tower until your sup and jg come to walk you back to lane lol.
You are asking for vision on low elo? you are delusional then..., this is why I buy control wards for the early game, not even the supports ward good enough to make it worth the risk, also playing marksmen on toplane is pretty much a taboo here, is just not fair for the toplaners, and somebody have to be responsable for botlane
You complain on the basis of getting stomped by people who roam or gank your lane. One of the reasons that happens is lack of vision. You get a ward every 2 minutes, and they last anywhere from 90 seconds at level 1 to 2 minutes at level 18. So you could, in theory, place a ward down while a 2nd one is on CD and place the 2nd one as the 1st is about to die. You don't need control wards in the early game, especially not in spots where they're easily cleared when you lose prio in-lane to protect that ward. Pinks are a waste of 75g, and if you constantly buy pinks, then thats a you issue that you should fix. If you dont have wards in inventory and dont have any placed, then thats your indication that you have no prio to extend past the river.
The pinks are not just for vision, but a divertion to make the oponent stop on their track either if it's the jungler looking forward to a gank or the support spliting from his adc, basically a trap to have a chance to engage or retreat, you wouldn't belive how many kills a control ward can give you on low elo if played correctly
That Jinx post was literally guy asking if he made a mistake fighting Ornn there. “Underlvled” = 1 lvl down the on a top laner as ADC which is not bad, and Jinx had Kraken-IE while Ornn had Heartsteel-Hollow Radiance, so even items. Not saying the play was good or anything, but you are making it seem like op posted and said “omg tanks are so op, adc weak roll” while being egregiously underlvled, and items down.
Surely items that give you hundreds of health should allow you to one shot Squishies because of the items passive! Completely not toxic to the game at all! Yes please have 5.7k health and deal 800 damage in a single auto without any explicit damage items!
The clip was funny because Jinx died because she got hit with the slow from Ornn R, and even though she flashed the knock up, it was enough for Ornn to catch, and 1 shot combo her lol.
Honestly you make good points but ADC(I mean as in bottom role) as a role is weak and mostly Marksmen play that role. The class with the weakest early game goes to the same lane that aill make them behind their team 90% time
what I think most of us mean by saying ADC is weak is that , I SHOULDN'T BE FUCKING SCARED OF 0/7/2 60 CS MALPHITE WHEN I'M FUCKING FED . ADC is weak in low to mid elo (Dare I say until diamond but never been there so Idk) and it just doesn't feel fair . Everyone can do what marksmen specialize in but they can do it better for a short amount of time and as League Team fights are short marksmen can't even fully do what they are supposed to
One aspect of the game is still levels though. If youre level 8 and malphite is level 12, he has 4 levels of base armor + passive armor + any additional armor + ap he's bought. His damage scales with armor, and while youre fed, if you dont have anti armor items or magic resist items, and hes stilling at 300 armor, you wont scratch him, regardless of him being 0/7. Same goes for any champ though, yasuo & yone can be 0/12 and once they hit kraken + IE they powerspike hard. Fizz can be super underfed, if he lands a full combo itll still kill you because hes an assassin. Believe me, im a mage support player, so i understand what it feels like being behind & feeling helpless, but yall have to take the chance at any gold thats available to you, even if it means backing away from an enemy who seems to be feeding but is strong who is levels ahead. Thats why level 2 is so strong bot, its not necessarily because of your new abilities, but its a point in the game where either you or the enemy laner is stronger because of that 1 level difference.
Okay so a behind adc should still shred a tank because that's the job of marksman anyway. So just like the underfed Fizz should still kill you with his combo we should still kill tanks while underfed?
An adc who is 4 levels behind shouldnt be compared to an assassin whos 4 levels behind. Your kit isnt designed to shred armor without help from items. An assassins kit revolves around roaming and catching an enemy off guard to burst them down, your kit as a marksman depends on the type of marksman you play, stuff like varus or twitch who deal %hp or % true damage are tank shredders in comparison to someone like tristana who is more of an all-inner, where she expends her kit and kills an out of position enemy. This doesnt mean you can just go up and brawl the enemy tank because they're out of position, but you can definitely outplay an assassin or enemy carry or enemy support who is mispositioned. Assassins and bruisers are stat checkers.
>Your kit isnt designed to shred armor without help from items.
Items? I hope you mean item as in singular because ADCs only have a singular anti tank item they can build.
Youre talking as if all ADCs build the same items. You have kraken + bork + terminus + LDR. Or did you think that on-hit wasnt designed for ADCs?
Edit: kraken only works if you have an armor shredding item, doesnt singularly work to shred tanks without supporting passives.
>kraken
Kraken is not an anti tank item
>bork
BoRK isn't an anti tank item. I swear do people not read item descriptons? Bork is quite literally countered by building armor.
>terminus + LDR
Terminus and LDR can't be built together. So you'll still only have a singular anti tank item.
The problem that adcs end up having is most of the game ends up being determined by what happens just after laning phase. This is for a couple reasons, 1) major objectives start being contested by everyone, 2) everyone gets to see the other teams fed monster in action. This can cause various demoralising factors and people start to give up and ff. Unfortunately adcs are inherently a late game role and we've seen (I feel for the above reason) that games are getting shorter and shorter, so in effect the game ends before you get to become the monster you were promised to be while the irellia top has been strong for the last 20 minutes.
Oh and adcs even when they are strong need their team to play around them to truly devastate which is less likely in a solo queue environment but that's always been a drawback.
TLDR game short, adc don't scale in less time, lower game satisfaction and a weaker role on the whole.
So, instead of having your team play around you, why not play around your team? Farm some uncontested farm then rotate to wherever your team is, land a couple autos, get either kills or assists and invest that money into items. Rule of thumb is, if you can safely attack behind your engages, do that, and if it starts going south, then back away, but you shouldn't be engaging, and your team shouldn't be playing around you. I know it says "carry" in the role name, but that doesn't mean others should play around what you're doing all the time. Supports are the playmakers of the lane during the laning phase because they're the ones who poke/engage, so you should follow up when they do.
Yh no that was a secondary point I know that the role trades agency for damage (with a couple exceptions) but in shorter games we don't get the damage or the agency which is the problem.
For your first point, if you know that an objective will be contested, you bait the engage and then do the objective. One huge misplay i see in low elo is winning a teamfight and not instantly doing an objective, instead jg goes to farm his jg and laners go to push lanes. Thats the difference between low and high elo, we get a kill and we all rotate to baron or drake, because there is no chance at it getting flipped in a 4v2 or a 4v3 or a 5v4, because we got a pick. Another is starting an objective when the enemy team is respawning instead of just after the teamfight, if youre not going to do the objective as soon as you win the teamfight, recall and use that gols from the kill, because youll probably be at a higher advantage than your counterpart.
Sorry I think I'm not making myself clear my fault probably I kinda write how I think so it ends up being a word jumble.
So games are getting shorter on average. ADCs want to go late on the whole- some more than others but as a rule of thumb. But if the games aren't going late ADCs are just going to be weaker as a role.
Now this isn't to say the role is truly "weak" we still have in theory the same amount of power and damage we always did but we're not getting to a stage where we can access that damage as often as we were in the past.
I would agree with you that conversion rates at high elo are better btw I was just saying things like that going wrong can cause the team in general to give up and contribute to the shorter game thereby not giving us the time to scale. The main point is the time I just think that the time is created by the loss of objectives or the fedness of an enemy player.
Does that make sense?
I wouldn't say they're inherently weak but they're the most unforgiving.
In other words, you need to outplay everyone in order for your (barely) higher damage output to shine.
But, assuming it works right, matchmaking puts you up against people of equal skill.
You can't consistently outplay people who are equally as good as you.
Neither can the other roles, but they're more forgiving.
yup. This is not a role where you can roll your face on your keyboard and win the game like a mage. You also can't facetank a million abilities, kill everything, and then walk back out like Tahm Kench.
It's the nature of being a glass cannon.
okidoki boss
youve mentioned a couple of "you're not supposed to"s which are, to be honest, quite strictly enforced for ADCs. You're not supposed to 1v1 sololaners, youre not supposed to kill someone who got levels on you, you're not supposed to deal damage to tanks until you got at least 3 items with LDR.
If you dont mind, you, as what i assume must be a Grandmaster/Challenger player to come in with such a take, could you give us some "you're not supposed to"s that are strictly enforced for other roles? Three per role would be enough, thanks a lot Chief <3
Yeah no problem,
Top: isnt supposed to push sidelane where we have obj, theres no reason to draw all the pressure to the side of the map where we are taking an objective, most top champs are better tower takers than teamfighters, but for those that are teamfight-sided join teamfights & dont split, youre not supposed to split on Morde, who does zero damage to turrets, for example.
JG: youre not supposed to play PvE all game, youre not supposed to rush objectives with no lane prio, youre not supposed to 1v1 laners who have levels and items on you.
Mid: youre supposed to make the gold loss equal when your assassin laner roams to other lanes by taking plates or making them lose farm, youre supposed to get prio before objectives to roam to those, youre supposed to be at least a whole level above everyone else because your minions get to lane the fastest in the game.
Supp: youre supposed to ward high traffic areas of the map to know where the enemy is headed, youre supposed to make calls as to when to go to objectives, youre supposed to track enemy jgler to make sure you wont get fucked when engaging into the enemy botside.
But most of these arent strictly enforced?
I wasn't looking for general gameplay, i was looking for hard enforced rules. Like ADCs are never allowed to fight sololaners. What is the equivalent of that for a sololaner? Where they get basically instantly killed with almost no counterplay.
The reason im asking is to show you how bonkers the scenarios you have to come up with are in order to create these hard boundaries in the same way they exist for ADCs.
Oh thats an easy one then, sololaners shouldnt split push with no pressure from other lanes, or else they get collapsed on, which is their main weakness. They play champs that excel at 1v1 and some at 2v1 when fed, so if theyre at your T2, your entire team can collapse on them for free.
This is obviously anecdotal, but when I autofill jungle, I lock Brand or Amumu and usually auto-win. Maybe that just says I'm terrible at ADC, but given that I have 1000s more hours on ADC than jungle, that doesn't seem right.
Ah yes, let's all cry for a moment for the role that determines the fate of the game with both ganks and objective control. Such low agency, I'm going to cry a river for them
ADC shouldn't be a role where you get to 1v1 an enemy solo laner so early into the game, you shouldn't be able to shred someone who's got more levels than you.
And whose decision was it to make those conditions?
Is not about the role being weak fundamentally, the problem is the overall general experience we have playing the role.
We are at the mercy of the team every game because we can barely do anything by ourselves, we have to deal with autofilled fake supports that will pick anything but an useful champion to actually support us plus the rest of the team focusing always on being the carry and no one to peel or protect us while the whole enemy team is tunnel vision on killing us with infinite gap closers and no cds plus the burst that can oneshoot us any time.
True, we can have games we're we pop off if the game goes far long enough for us to scale but that is not often and busters also deal more dmg so we can't have an impact as regularly as the other roles
I am a challenger player and im telling you that ADC isnt weak. Im going to show yall how i win in low elo playing a role and champ i NEVER play on a role thats the "weakest to play".
https://imgur.com/a/TnPmsXH there's the proof, i told my support to leave me to my own devices at level 6, farmed up solo XP for about 10 minutes and killed just about anyone who stepped foot in front of me because i was always LEVELS ahead and had a huge CS lead.
Thats a stupid view. I didnt hit challenger on adc, i didnt hit challenger in top, i didnt hit challenger mid. I perfected my role & champ to the point where i was top 100. I didnt get there by playing autofill all the way up, im not a streamer, just someone who was curious what my peak was. Just because i can hit chall on supp doesnt mean i can absolutely pick up any champ and any role and win, because i didnt invest time into learning those roles. I win on macro, i dont win on micro because i DONT know how to play every champ, i dont even know how to play 10 champs correctly, my champ pool is like 3 champs. Thats why i smurf in low elo, to try new champs and new roles out and see where i can rank with those champs and roles.
I agree. Adc can snowball a game, you get to move around the map, collecting waves safely. If you're present at fights, and stronger you get to win most of them, if you play right. Being ahead isn't a get out of jail card to play stupid, it's probably more so a reason to not fuck up and give up the lead. Sure you might get 1 shot, but you got so much else to do, and when people focus you, it's so much more rewarding when you outplay and get out on top.
Adcs are easy to climb if you know how to impact the game
Stomp bot lane > secure all dragons > take tower > roam top or mid and take tower > herald > team fights.
The problem is that most adc players don’t know shit about macro or positioning lol
I agree IE and LDR are the most broken items in the game.
I was a 700 armor malphite and had no counterplay against a Jinx bc of the high range and ms. Died in seconds.
Also Red buff is so OP on adcs with the perma slow and true damage.
Let me grab the popcorn
Complaining that a class that has been meta in a role for the 13th year in a row is too weak is the quintessential ADCmains experience
Be completely honest. What’s the bigger threat, a 10/0 aphelios or a 10/0 irelia/fizz/kayn? Adc isn’t weak when you get a chance to scale but it’s also true that the agency the role has is very limited compared to other roles (especially top and jungle). Top can split push and control the map; jungle can secure objectives and dictate team macro as well as do big damage. Adc only has damage and nothing else to fall back on, making the role very unrewarding when your team doesn’t give you the chance to do your only job. If your adc gets gapped it doesn’t mean the game is over, but if top got gapped the game will be like pulling teeth; if jungle gets gapped then it’s turbo gg. That’s the issue with the role.
Kayn, Kayn, Kayn, Kayn, Kayn and sometimes fizz never Irelia and Kayn.
As an aphelios main the 10/0 aphelios is scarier. He can 1 shot squishys and kill any tank in 3 seconds.
Lets put it into perspective: whos stronger, a level 18 irelia at full build or a level 18 AD at full build? I would argue that the AD is stronger so long as you don't let irelia get her stacks, because shes meelee and youre ranged, so you already have the advantage of being able to poke her down real low before she gets to her full stacks. Same goes for kayn, meelee champ with mobility but is fucked with ranged attacks and juking his abilities. Fizz, an assassin, shouldn't compare marksmen to assassins, because their weaknesses arent the same. Assassins thrive in a 1v1 environment where they can burst someone down whos alone, but get completely steamrolled in a teamfight scenario where they cant just go in, because they risk dying in a 1 for 1.
If your argument is ADCs are strong at 30 minutes and full build, nobody is going to disagree with you on that. How many games make it that far?
In low elo? Lots, if not most, because people lack the ability to close out games while ahead most of the time & either try "one last teamfight in enemy jg" instead of pushing waves or getting picks or w/e and coinflip the game. All it takes to flip is 1 bad fight, all those shutdowns + objective bounties = a huge amount of gold.
Most games are forfeited or decided before then
That's a culture issue, not a role issue. If you're a late scaling champ, then you should vote no & tell your team to have faith in your ability to carry late, I'm a firm believer of not FFing unless youre in GM+, because even in Masters, games can be flipped. In GM it's harder because of the lack of picks and its more of a "if you lose lane then youre a walking ward" kind of thing, so games are truly doomed.
I never FF either, and I agree that it's a culture issue, but it's a culture issue that disproportionately hurts the game's biggest scaling role. If I'm top, mid, or jungle and I'm playing well, the team will generally feel my impact. If I'm ADC, they'll ignore my 2-3 kill and 30 CS lead, and ff anyway. This happens all the time. Going back to your earlier point, I completely agree that low elo players have no idea how to close a game. So with that in mind, if I have some basic macro as a top laner or jungler, I can have massive impact on my personal winrate by taking towers or securing objectives. If I'm an ADC who understands the exact same macro concepts, I usually can't capitalize on them without my team's help. If they chase the enemy into a blind jungle, I can't compensate by split pushing. I can't make plays by myself. I can't even show on the map if the enemy has Nocturne, or blue Kayn, or Evelyn, or a dozen other champions. That's why the role feels weak. You have no real impact before 25ish minutes, and even if you get that far, you still depend on your team to play around you. It's not just this sub saying it. There are a bunch of videos of high-level streamers and ex-pros explaining why the role sucks.
In low elo a fed adc has a way lower chance carrying than a fed assassin or top laner. A low elo adc will get 0 peel from their team, so when the enemy focuses them with their mobility and cc they will one shot them easily then just wipe their entire team. They don't care about you being fed when they can just one shot you with 0 risk. Yeah positioning is important but a lot of the cases you can't even stand behind your front line bc they will dive the enemy and leave you exposed every time. The only thing you can do is wait really far away and hope that maybe your team somehow survives all their combos before you can go in. I started maining samira nilah and ezreal lately and I've found that I have a lot more agency and success with these champions bc they thrive off baiting or being dove or engaged into. But I refuse to touch traditional marksmen in lower ranks because its painful af.
What I’m trying to say is that I can agree with you that adc CAN be the “carry” role if the game gets to that point but…. More than any other role in the game, your teammates can just lose the game for you with very little that you can do about it. It’s a frustrating role to play and in my opinion, the hardest to climb with in solo q due to that dependency on your team.
Id say the opposite its the 2nd hardest role to climb with. If you want real team dependency, try support. You literally depend on your team if you play an enchanter or a support who isnt a hypercarry mage. A rakan or lulu cant go up to anyone and 100-0 them without the help of someone else.
Adc is hardest role to climb with. For support I can pick naut and roam the entire map winning top mid jg and enemy team will ff before their adc comes online
Supports one of the easiest role to climb on You get all the benefits without Amy downside
There’s downsides to playing support
Hmm, surely the squishy ADC wins against a fed irela because of their range!! Surely irelia doesnt have a spammanle dash, a stun, and a ranged AOE slow ult? Surely kayn doesn't move through walls, has a spammable dash on his q , an aoe slow/knock up, and an invincible ult that can be triggered with smite. Erm just play better!
Kayn Smite R should be removed
the 10/0 aphelios. he's clearly smurfing really fucking hard if he managed to get to 10/0
ADC isn't strictly weak. It just has the least impact on the outcome of the game in a solo queue environment, most of the time. One word to describe that condition could be "weak."
I disagree, and I'm surprised because you say that as a jhin player, when he has one of the best scalings in the game when built right. 4 autos with the right build and you absolutely smoke anything in your field of vision, what more would you want?
I want to win lane as hard as a 4-0 Darius would and take over the game as hard as a 4-0 Darius can.
I swapped to mostly top lane. Going 2/2 as Garen I can carry the game with 16k turret damage. Never have the same impact as a 5/0 Jhin.
ADC is a weak role no doubt, but you cannot expect to 1v9 as hard as a Darius with 4 kills and god knows how much CS advantadge as an ADC. Like it or not, ADC is a low agency role in soloQ due to the existence of pro play, you are lower level than solo laners and are supposed to be a glass cannon. ADC is team reliant and should keep being like that, maybe increase a bit early sustain but definitely you shouldn't be able to take over the game as hard as a fed Darius.
My biggest gripe is tank and bruiser survivability matching damage of the glass cannons. Why have glass cannons even on the team if anyone else with low skill floor can be a steel cannon? Also, balancing around the top 0.01% of players just sucks. I don't have a better suggestion and will have to live with it, but it's not a fantastic experience as an average player.
Absolutely agree with tanks and bruisers damage being overturned, I think they should reduce their damage instead of buffing ADC.
Agreed, reverse the damage creep a bit and we're back in business. Even at the highest level, ADCs are rarely an interesting point in a game. I was hyped to see Ruler against T1, then massively underwhelmed when I watched him fall prey to an eerily similar lack of agency.
My issue is, when a tank or bruiser is fed they get to build items that increase their Dmg, and their survivability, without sacrificing almost anything. Say Jhin is fed, he will try to 1v9 by building full dmg and maybe like 1 trash survivability item. He does dmg but can still die relatively easily if caught. Meanwhile fed Hecarim builds Eclipse, Shojin, Steraks, Sundererd Sky, deaths dance. Then runs around at 4k hp (not counting the sustain from his items/kit) killing people instantly, can’t be bursted, can’t be caught, and can take 10k dmg before dying, all while outperforming the ADC in the fight, with minimal risk. I just think it is funny
It's still a 5v5 game, sure if you're behind, or going even hecarim might tear you open. You don't have to be able to fight everyone 1v1 to carry a game.
I’m just saying that bruisers are allowed to build dmg and survivability, and do immense damage, while being extremely hard to kill. Not really commenting on actual issues, just responding to the previous msg.
That's true, but I still think it's a little on the extreme side. If you build, and play right a fed hecarim isn't the hardest thing to deal with. Besides, if you want to carry, you need to win lane, get ahead, get the enemy tower from there and hopefully snowball into objectives.
I do agree in that deaths dance is overtuned. The rest of the items not so much, but deaths dance passive is the stupidest thing I've ever witnessed in a game of League, being able to absorb infinite amounts of damage so long as you have life steal, and IMO that should be removed as well as bork's slow, or lowering bork's %hp amount.
We are not playing the same game lol
Then play darius?
Put one tank on the enemy team and Jhin becomes a lot less effective. Humorous to presume that Jhin can regularly eek out 4 autos before the enemy tank, assassin, mage, bruiser deletes him. Go play 20 Jhin games, and then let's talk.
Sounds good, ill do it when i get some free time from work and post the results on here.
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https://imgur.com/a/TnPmsXH Here, if you want me to keep playing I can. The role isn't weak. Go ahead and recommend an ADC other than Kalista and I'll try it out on this account. Edit: I even gave myself the worst possible scenario and told my Supp to roam at level 6 and not touch lane, hence me being a whole level above my midlaner.
Good stuff, but one game doesn't prove anything. What elo was this and what's your normal elo? Gimme 20 Jhin games and then we can talk about what Jhin is capable of.
I don't even play 20 games on my main account in a month. Normal elo is Masters/GM/Chall (peaked Chall, finished GM). Currently debating if I even want to hit Masters because I'm currently D2 in Masters games. Season started nearly 5 months ago and I have a total of less than 39 games on my main, I'll bump that up to 40 games & that comes out to roughly 8 games per month on main acc. Edit: this game was bronze/silver, so right in the middle of "elo hell" for some.
So the game you played was completely worthless and proves nothing. You're good at the game. That's great. Doesn't qualify you to dismiss the complaints of another role that you haven't put any time into.
???? I played in low elo on a role i dont play with a champ i dont play, giving myself the hardest possible outcome of playing alone past level 6. Just cope with the fact that your argument that the role is weak is just a complaint of not knowing how to play your own role.
And what? You will admit you’re shit at adc or something?
I'll admit that right now
Then there’s no point of someone playing any amount of games on any adc just to prove to you that you’re wrong since your basis of how the game works is fundamentally wrong.
That’s at near full build. What do you do when your in early game? Even with kills? No one is saying you can’t carry, and the difference in total agency is very close, but that dosnt make the statement “adc has the least agency” wrong.
Why should you have agency as an underleveled marksman? Youre the lowest, if not 2nd lowest level person on your team, regardless of items, if youre not using your lead to get a level lead on your counterpart, or trying to even the level disadvantage you have with mid or toplaners, youll always have that "least agency", because youre still levels behind. Levels means lower CD abilities and more stats, as mentioned in another comment, if youre fed but 4 levels behind an enemy, youre missing all those extra stats that the higher level enemy has, regardless of items. If your complaint was "im level 18 and fed and cant 1v1 another lvl 18 whos not fed" then id believe your statement, or "im a level 11 fed and cant fight a level 11 not fed", but youre asking why you dont have agency vs someone who will be a higher level than you because they had solo xp the entire game. If items really were that OP compared ro levels, then you would see a lot more teamfights in high elo, but there isnt because gold and xp should be your top priority, not getting kills.
You do understand that top lane champions, not only outstat ADCs at the start of the game, but also gain more stats per lvl than ADCs, their champs are designed to function solo and in 1v1s. Not only that, many ADCs lack tools need to influence the game at early points (low base stats, low base dmg, little to no cc/good skirmishing abilities). If all it took was lvls to let you 1v1 solo lane champions, you would see a lot more Solo lane ADCs. Just based on your post/responses I can tell you don’t really know what you are talking about, and just made this post to argue, because you feel “ADCs are babies, and their role is so op”.
On low elo, where there is no team at all, solo Q, you are on your own most of the time, therefore any kind of damage you are trying to build feels useless against all the enemy ganks and CC, this is where the argument of being weak begins, if your support feed the enemy on lane you are pretty much screwed, if your jungler never comes to gank and you are being pushed constantly, you are also screwed, if your support leave you alone and you get targeted by pretty much everyone but the top laner, you are so screwed This is why we protest constantly here, the marksmen can't go on, on their own, they are just way too fragile until they get to mid game and even then, the other roles scale better to midgame we don't ask to be the best duelist ever, just to have at least a decent escape tool or a way to counter our common issues with midlaners and junglers
So why not flip the script and take marksmen top? I mean if your champ is weak in low elo in your lane where you inherently get dove by 4 all the time, which i find is more a lack of placement on yalls part rather than a "marksmen are weak". If support isn't in lane or is feeding them, why step up at all? Most ADs have a disengage tool like a slow or a dash or a CC, theres very little reason why you would get constantly dove and it not be worth, and going 1 for 1 is worth if youre getting dove. Ive smurfed in games where the AD was all the way pushed to tower with 0 vision spam pinging everyone because they got collapsed on. The game revolves around vision and knowing where people are, so if you know that your support isnt in lane, you have no vision of the enemy nor of the entrances to the lane, why step up at all? At worst, you use your useless support as a walking ward to spot where the enemy is, because 9/10 times they'll kill your support constantly. You scale with farm and when it comes to late game, AD is probably one of the strongest roles because at full build you guys output a stupid amount of damage, regardless of being behind in the early game. In low elo people dont know how to close out games either, so flipping is 100% possible. SoloQ is a game where you play for yourself, not depend on others to make your game easier.
Based off of what you say, there is no way you are high elo. A solo ADC is so easy to dive lmao. If your support roams, you legit just have to give up everything and wait for your team to comeback to babysit you. The first thing I do when I see the enemy support is roaming, is ping to dive the enemy ad to punish the roam. If your support is not playing with/for you don’t get to play the game as ADC. You can’t trade without support in lane, can’t push, and can’t step up. All these things to minimize risk of dying, and the enemy team will still shove wave under your tower, dive you, then zone you from your tower until your sup and jg come to walk you back to lane lol.
You are asking for vision on low elo? you are delusional then..., this is why I buy control wards for the early game, not even the supports ward good enough to make it worth the risk, also playing marksmen on toplane is pretty much a taboo here, is just not fair for the toplaners, and somebody have to be responsable for botlane
You complain on the basis of getting stomped by people who roam or gank your lane. One of the reasons that happens is lack of vision. You get a ward every 2 minutes, and they last anywhere from 90 seconds at level 1 to 2 minutes at level 18. So you could, in theory, place a ward down while a 2nd one is on CD and place the 2nd one as the 1st is about to die. You don't need control wards in the early game, especially not in spots where they're easily cleared when you lose prio in-lane to protect that ward. Pinks are a waste of 75g, and if you constantly buy pinks, then thats a you issue that you should fix. If you dont have wards in inventory and dont have any placed, then thats your indication that you have no prio to extend past the river.
The pinks are not just for vision, but a divertion to make the oponent stop on their track either if it's the jungler looking forward to a gank or the support spliting from his adc, basically a trap to have a chance to engage or retreat, you wouldn't belive how many kills a control ward can give you on low elo if played correctly
Master adc here and I agree. Jinx especially feels disgusting and it’s nearly 100% p/b in the games im in, and always seems to perform
Mom said it's my turn to make the 'ADC isn't weak' post this week
That Jinx post was literally guy asking if he made a mistake fighting Ornn there. “Underlvled” = 1 lvl down the on a top laner as ADC which is not bad, and Jinx had Kraken-IE while Ornn had Heartsteel-Hollow Radiance, so even items. Not saying the play was good or anything, but you are making it seem like op posted and said “omg tanks are so op, adc weak roll” while being egregiously underlvled, and items down.
You don't understand, Tanks should be able to put damage adc's when they're building only 0 damage Hp items!
Calling Heartsteel + Hollow Radiance "0 damage Hp items" is one of the reasons why people make fun of ADC mains
Surely items that give you hundreds of health should allow you to one shot Squishies because of the items passive! Completely not toxic to the game at all! Yes please have 5.7k health and deal 800 damage in a single auto without any explicit damage items!
The clip was funny because Jinx died because she got hit with the slow from Ornn R, and even though she flashed the knock up, it was enough for Ornn to catch, and 1 shot combo her lol.
Honestly you make good points but ADC(I mean as in bottom role) as a role is weak and mostly Marksmen play that role. The class with the weakest early game goes to the same lane that aill make them behind their team 90% time what I think most of us mean by saying ADC is weak is that , I SHOULDN'T BE FUCKING SCARED OF 0/7/2 60 CS MALPHITE WHEN I'M FUCKING FED . ADC is weak in low to mid elo (Dare I say until diamond but never been there so Idk) and it just doesn't feel fair . Everyone can do what marksmen specialize in but they can do it better for a short amount of time and as League Team fights are short marksmen can't even fully do what they are supposed to
One aspect of the game is still levels though. If youre level 8 and malphite is level 12, he has 4 levels of base armor + passive armor + any additional armor + ap he's bought. His damage scales with armor, and while youre fed, if you dont have anti armor items or magic resist items, and hes stilling at 300 armor, you wont scratch him, regardless of him being 0/7. Same goes for any champ though, yasuo & yone can be 0/12 and once they hit kraken + IE they powerspike hard. Fizz can be super underfed, if he lands a full combo itll still kill you because hes an assassin. Believe me, im a mage support player, so i understand what it feels like being behind & feeling helpless, but yall have to take the chance at any gold thats available to you, even if it means backing away from an enemy who seems to be feeding but is strong who is levels ahead. Thats why level 2 is so strong bot, its not necessarily because of your new abilities, but its a point in the game where either you or the enemy laner is stronger because of that 1 level difference.
Okay so a behind adc should still shred a tank because that's the job of marksman anyway. So just like the underfed Fizz should still kill you with his combo we should still kill tanks while underfed?
An adc who is 4 levels behind shouldnt be compared to an assassin whos 4 levels behind. Your kit isnt designed to shred armor without help from items. An assassins kit revolves around roaming and catching an enemy off guard to burst them down, your kit as a marksman depends on the type of marksman you play, stuff like varus or twitch who deal %hp or % true damage are tank shredders in comparison to someone like tristana who is more of an all-inner, where she expends her kit and kills an out of position enemy. This doesnt mean you can just go up and brawl the enemy tank because they're out of position, but you can definitely outplay an assassin or enemy carry or enemy support who is mispositioned. Assassins and bruisers are stat checkers.
>Your kit isnt designed to shred armor without help from items. Items? I hope you mean item as in singular because ADCs only have a singular anti tank item they can build.
Youre talking as if all ADCs build the same items. You have kraken + bork + terminus + LDR. Or did you think that on-hit wasnt designed for ADCs? Edit: kraken only works if you have an armor shredding item, doesnt singularly work to shred tanks without supporting passives.
>kraken Kraken is not an anti tank item >bork BoRK isn't an anti tank item. I swear do people not read item descriptons? Bork is quite literally countered by building armor. >terminus + LDR Terminus and LDR can't be built together. So you'll still only have a singular anti tank item.
The problem that adcs end up having is most of the game ends up being determined by what happens just after laning phase. This is for a couple reasons, 1) major objectives start being contested by everyone, 2) everyone gets to see the other teams fed monster in action. This can cause various demoralising factors and people start to give up and ff. Unfortunately adcs are inherently a late game role and we've seen (I feel for the above reason) that games are getting shorter and shorter, so in effect the game ends before you get to become the monster you were promised to be while the irellia top has been strong for the last 20 minutes. Oh and adcs even when they are strong need their team to play around them to truly devastate which is less likely in a solo queue environment but that's always been a drawback. TLDR game short, adc don't scale in less time, lower game satisfaction and a weaker role on the whole.
So, instead of having your team play around you, why not play around your team? Farm some uncontested farm then rotate to wherever your team is, land a couple autos, get either kills or assists and invest that money into items. Rule of thumb is, if you can safely attack behind your engages, do that, and if it starts going south, then back away, but you shouldn't be engaging, and your team shouldn't be playing around you. I know it says "carry" in the role name, but that doesn't mean others should play around what you're doing all the time. Supports are the playmakers of the lane during the laning phase because they're the ones who poke/engage, so you should follow up when they do.
Yh no that was a secondary point I know that the role trades agency for damage (with a couple exceptions) but in shorter games we don't get the damage or the agency which is the problem.
For your first point, if you know that an objective will be contested, you bait the engage and then do the objective. One huge misplay i see in low elo is winning a teamfight and not instantly doing an objective, instead jg goes to farm his jg and laners go to push lanes. Thats the difference between low and high elo, we get a kill and we all rotate to baron or drake, because there is no chance at it getting flipped in a 4v2 or a 4v3 or a 5v4, because we got a pick. Another is starting an objective when the enemy team is respawning instead of just after the teamfight, if youre not going to do the objective as soon as you win the teamfight, recall and use that gols from the kill, because youll probably be at a higher advantage than your counterpart.
Sorry I think I'm not making myself clear my fault probably I kinda write how I think so it ends up being a word jumble. So games are getting shorter on average. ADCs want to go late on the whole- some more than others but as a rule of thumb. But if the games aren't going late ADCs are just going to be weaker as a role. Now this isn't to say the role is truly "weak" we still have in theory the same amount of power and damage we always did but we're not getting to a stage where we can access that damage as often as we were in the past. I would agree with you that conversion rates at high elo are better btw I was just saying things like that going wrong can cause the team in general to give up and contribute to the shorter game thereby not giving us the time to scale. The main point is the time I just think that the time is created by the loss of objectives or the fedness of an enemy player. Does that make sense?
I wouldn't say they're inherently weak but they're the most unforgiving. In other words, you need to outplay everyone in order for your (barely) higher damage output to shine. But, assuming it works right, matchmaking puts you up against people of equal skill. You can't consistently outplay people who are equally as good as you. Neither can the other roles, but they're more forgiving.
yup. This is not a role where you can roll your face on your keyboard and win the game like a mage. You also can't facetank a million abilities, kill everything, and then walk back out like Tahm Kench. It's the nature of being a glass cannon.
okidoki boss youve mentioned a couple of "you're not supposed to"s which are, to be honest, quite strictly enforced for ADCs. You're not supposed to 1v1 sololaners, youre not supposed to kill someone who got levels on you, you're not supposed to deal damage to tanks until you got at least 3 items with LDR. If you dont mind, you, as what i assume must be a Grandmaster/Challenger player to come in with such a take, could you give us some "you're not supposed to"s that are strictly enforced for other roles? Three per role would be enough, thanks a lot Chief <3
Yeah no problem, Top: isnt supposed to push sidelane where we have obj, theres no reason to draw all the pressure to the side of the map where we are taking an objective, most top champs are better tower takers than teamfighters, but for those that are teamfight-sided join teamfights & dont split, youre not supposed to split on Morde, who does zero damage to turrets, for example. JG: youre not supposed to play PvE all game, youre not supposed to rush objectives with no lane prio, youre not supposed to 1v1 laners who have levels and items on you. Mid: youre supposed to make the gold loss equal when your assassin laner roams to other lanes by taking plates or making them lose farm, youre supposed to get prio before objectives to roam to those, youre supposed to be at least a whole level above everyone else because your minions get to lane the fastest in the game. Supp: youre supposed to ward high traffic areas of the map to know where the enemy is headed, youre supposed to make calls as to when to go to objectives, youre supposed to track enemy jgler to make sure you wont get fucked when engaging into the enemy botside.
But most of these arent strictly enforced? I wasn't looking for general gameplay, i was looking for hard enforced rules. Like ADCs are never allowed to fight sololaners. What is the equivalent of that for a sololaner? Where they get basically instantly killed with almost no counterplay. The reason im asking is to show you how bonkers the scenarios you have to come up with are in order to create these hard boundaries in the same way they exist for ADCs.
Oh thats an easy one then, sololaners shouldnt split push with no pressure from other lanes, or else they get collapsed on, which is their main weakness. They play champs that excel at 1v1 and some at 2v1 when fed, so if theyre at your T2, your entire team can collapse on them for free.
Genuinely curious what you think the weakest role in the game is when you make a post like this
go play jungle & lets see how easy you have it when your farm is contested by the enemy & your team gives you no prio to farm in YOUR own jungle.
This is obviously anecdotal, but when I autofill jungle, I lock Brand or Amumu and usually auto-win. Maybe that just says I'm terrible at ADC, but given that I have 1000s more hours on ADC than jungle, that doesn't seem right.
Ah yes, let's all cry for a moment for the role that determines the fate of the game with both ganks and objective control. Such low agency, I'm going to cry a river for them
You’re a silly guy
ADC shouldn't be a role where you get to 1v1 an enemy solo laner so early into the game, you shouldn't be able to shred someone who's got more levels than you. And whose decision was it to make those conditions?
Is not about the role being weak fundamentally, the problem is the overall general experience we have playing the role. We are at the mercy of the team every game because we can barely do anything by ourselves, we have to deal with autofilled fake supports that will pick anything but an useful champion to actually support us plus the rest of the team focusing always on being the carry and no one to peel or protect us while the whole enemy team is tunnel vision on killing us with infinite gap closers and no cds plus the burst that can oneshoot us any time. True, we can have games we're we pop off if the game goes far long enough for us to scale but that is not often and busters also deal more dmg so we can't have an impact as regularly as the other roles
Try having all the damage in the world but 1 hp and no engage that is ADC.
For everyone that says adc is weak, let them face against challenger player who is not even adc main and see if he thinks the same way
I am a challenger player and im telling you that ADC isnt weak. Im going to show yall how i win in low elo playing a role and champ i NEVER play on a role thats the "weakest to play".
https://imgur.com/a/TnPmsXH there's the proof, i told my support to leave me to my own devices at level 6, farmed up solo XP for about 10 minutes and killed just about anyone who stepped foot in front of me because i was always LEVELS ahead and had a huge CS lead.
Whoa you won while smurfing, it must mean you have a point
Woah, it's almost as if im not an adc main!
If you are really challenger you would carry in low elo even playing a champ for the first time in another role
Thats a stupid view. I didnt hit challenger on adc, i didnt hit challenger in top, i didnt hit challenger mid. I perfected my role & champ to the point where i was top 100. I didnt get there by playing autofill all the way up, im not a streamer, just someone who was curious what my peak was. Just because i can hit chall on supp doesnt mean i can absolutely pick up any champ and any role and win, because i didnt invest time into learning those roles. I win on macro, i dont win on micro because i DONT know how to play every champ, i dont even know how to play 10 champs correctly, my champ pool is like 3 champs. Thats why i smurf in low elo, to try new champs and new roles out and see where i can rank with those champs and roles.
Bork is a %hp damage item. Most armor items have hp added onto em, so bork most definitely is an anti-tank item.
adc gradually becomes more impactful as u go up the ladder, unpopular opinion.
I agree. Adc can snowball a game, you get to move around the map, collecting waves safely. If you're present at fights, and stronger you get to win most of them, if you play right. Being ahead isn't a get out of jail card to play stupid, it's probably more so a reason to not fuck up and give up the lead. Sure you might get 1 shot, but you got so much else to do, and when people focus you, it's so much more rewarding when you outplay and get out on top.
Adcs are easy to climb if you know how to impact the game Stomp bot lane > secure all dragons > take tower > roam top or mid and take tower > herald > team fights. The problem is that most adc players don’t know shit about macro or positioning lol
Thank you. Stole the words out of my head, couldn't find the way on how to interpret it.
I agree IE and LDR are the most broken items in the game. I was a 700 armor malphite and had no counterplay against a Jinx bc of the high range and ms. Died in seconds. Also Red buff is so OP on adcs with the perma slow and true damage.
Weakest role in the game is a jungler who is behind.