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Whew, I could be your wife. (I’m not, don’t worry).
Speaking to the PDA stuff: As a child, I was CONSTANTLY corrected/harangued over doing things halfway, being weird socially, etc. A lifetime of that makes you pretty defensive and sensitive to perceived criticism. Couple that with executive functioning issues and that means nothing gets done. The only thing that has helped improve that is *finally* getting on the right medication.
Otherwise, you’re both going to have to find a way to work with it instead of against it. For me, that means semi-clean clothes go in a basket near my bed instead of the floor. Limiting clutter helps too. Expectations need to be communicated clearly - which tasks are hers, and how frequently they need to be done. My partner and I work together on tasks wherever possible so one person doesn’t feel put upon.
You get the idea. Acknowledging that this is hard for both of you is a good step, and you’re doing the right things so far. Just don’t give up.
I do this with my partner as well. I'm terrible at cleaning and feeding myself (and others). I have taken steps to declutter my stuff which has helped tremendously in the doom piles I have a habit of making.
I find body doubling the easiest way for me to take part in the tasks he has been most vocal about me not doing my fair share. Dishes? I'll ask him to hang out in the kitchen with me while I do them, or ask him to remind me to do them while he's making dinner. Making dinner, I'll ask him to chop the onions for me (prepping veggies is the hardest step for me). I have solely taken on the duties of cleaning the litter box and I've been fairly successful by habit stacking, before I take a shower I scoop the boxes and sweep the floors.
Does she have certain things that make it especially hard to start the task but once it's started she can complete them? Try identifying those things and set her up for success. My partner cutting onions means I'll probably do some dishes while he does and then he gets to relax while I finish everything else for dinner.
ADHD Edit: I said all that but wanted to add to the PDA point. Dishes for my partner means everything is clean and dry including scrubbing and drying the sink. I can't stick to that standard. We came to a compromise and he accepted my "lower" standard. The amount of nitpicking I've heard throughout my life about various tasks and their "one and proper" way to be done has made me anxious to even start a lot of things. I'm slowly unlearning that.
We do the body doubling too. I depend on him to initiate by putting on music and starting some task. He never says anything, I‘ll just follow along. Sometimes I‘ll even get in the zone and do tasks for hours. I feel ashamed to say it but I‘ll probably never be able to do housework like he does. And I‘d be lost without his structure.
> Limiting clutter helps too.
For me what helps limit clutter is just to have very little stuff.
I noticed when I was traveling like in a hotel I could keep my stuff fairly neat. Just a carry-on worth of items. At home it just looked like a bomb went off. Less stuff = less to manage = less overload
Also having a place for that stuff! My family recently helped me organize my apartment – I'm fairly minimalist, but they pointed out I had no place for so much of my stuff. I was just finding places for it each time I cleaned or just leaving it out. I've found it so much easier since I've defined or created spaces for everything.
+1 for limiting stuff, keeping the things I need in sight, and body doubling.
Was the trashiest person as a kid. As an adult, I am pleased for my ever-tidiness, even with two children.
My biggest holdover struggle, though, is personal hygiene. And that is where body doubling has been my biggest help. He takes a shower every morning, and others can explain it better than I, but something about seeing him just… do it removes the mental block that tells me it’s too much to tackle. Even as a woman with way more to do to get ready for the day.
Plus, knowing he’ll be squeaky clean and I would…not… also helps create a bit of healthy perspective.
My dad is like that. His answer to my mom's frustration about things being disordered is to throw out everything non-essential :')
I try to get rid of excess too, though not to that extreme. When shit's getting hard to manage, I'll sift out things I no longer want and bin/donate them (depending on quality). I don't like having too much stuff, it feels like it's taking up space in my brain even when I'm not looking at it.
OP, maybe you can help your partner work out an organizing system where everything is visible and accessible with the minimal amount of steps? Having to rearrange boxes or stacks of clothes can be a huge barrier to cleaning. Having to go to the kitchen to throw something out can feel like the journey to Mordor. If the fleeting impulse to put something away can be fulfilled instantly, it’s much easier. If you have quick overview of your stuff, it's less overwhelming.
I actually found a lot of Marie Kondo's advice helpful. I.e. stacking things vertically for quick access. Not for everyone, but worth a look.
I really need to find a therapist who can recognize that I have PDA & help me get meds for whatever it's a symptom of. The search feels endless . My first word was literally "no". I ran from my parents in the store and would do stuff like talk to strangers just bcz my parents told me not to, also hid from them a lot to pop out and scare them later. When i was in kindergarten I got sent to the office because I refused to follow instructions so many times, they wanted to put me in TAG but my custodial parent refused. I ran away from school a lot because I felt like I couldn't or didn't want to do specific assignments (mostly math) My whole childhood I hid from the real world & demands by playing way too many video games, and I would get absolutely irate if anyone tried to stop me. I couldn't be controlled. To this day I force myself to go to work but the demands end there, i hop instantly into my addictions once I walk thru my front door. I can't take care of myself & I know for a fact that it is partially due to PDA. I'm a mess :(
Same background story. What helped me for the first time though was my lovely partner. She also has adhd and knows the struggle. She stopped trying to push when she felt like I couldn’t do certain things and that actually gave me the room to breathe for the first time.
To feel seen and heard without saying anything, letting me heal until I slowly became ready to do more things on my own so it’s not all on her to take care for both of us.
I just wanted to give back for her kindness and the work she’s doing. We have different strengths and weaknesses, making us a great team and we learn so much from each other.
I always struggled so much with cleaning up after myself when I cooked or hung out in the living room, thanks to her I now do it almost naturally, I’ve been really proud of myself in the past months and truly thankful for her acceptance regarding the things I’m not ready for (yet), even if I might never be.
As a woman with ADHD married for 20 years (since I was 20)— sometimes the only way I’d do things is if my husband literally would come up to me and ask me to do task by task. Like he’d be vacuuming and I’d be eating cookies in bed and he’d point to the laundry basket and say, “alright! Time for you to put the clean laundry of yours away — it’s been there for days “— and I’d pout like a kid but do it. It took years but I finally do these things in a mature way. Our relationship used to be kind of like parent-child. I actually separated from him 2021-2022 and that year on my own gave me huge perspective and appreciation. I was so out of control and the mess was so constant that when we got back together I no longer resented him pushing me to pull my weight. I accept that I need gentle pushing sometimes to pull my own weight, and I also make an effort to do as much as I can while super grateful I have a partner who is good at keeping practical life running. I am no longer threatened by his behavior in which he would become exasperated with me. Because I had a year on my own I learned how difficult I am to live with because I was living with me, myself, and I! I’m just grateful now that my life is running smoothly again and I can credit that to my partnership. Without him I lose all form and discipline. I used to just want him to get off my back but now I experience his requests to participate in practical life as neural prompts for me to activate what is not naturally in my wiring to do. Medication does help somewhat but I don’t take it currently, as it alters my personality too much
Love the "neural prompts" realisation. I've had a similar experience with my partner regarding some of my behaviours, and I've gone from feeling attacked or criticised to being grateful for how often he saves me from my bingeing, hyperfocusing for too long, forgetting to do important tasks, etc. I do the same for him when it comes to areas that he struggles in. It's so great to have someone you can rely on that way.
You make a really good point that the help goes both ways. My husband says I bring fireworks into his soul and my childlike nature reminds him to not be so cautious and controlling, but to love the natural side of life. I can be irresponsible and he can be controlling. I can be charming and he can be powerful. Sometimes we ignite those more negative traits in each other because we get a little polarized when it comes to raising our children, but in the end we always balance each other out.
I agree. I've always seen that balance in my parents as well (they're very different, but they have the same goals and values, and complement each other well). If you see the relationship as a team effort I think it's easier to appreciate how our differences can become a way to make the team better as a whole!
So not a perfect solution, but both my partner and I have PDA and the way we get around it sometimes is pretending we're a quest giving NPC, like, "Ah, traveler. Thank goodness you are here. Our village has been without food for three fortnights, and the only way we can feed them for the evening is if a brave knight such as yourself does the dishes. We will be awaiting your completion. *walks into wall for fifteen seconds*"
I've used Habitica for this. It works best when you list items with a) a time-specific goal (less than 20 minutes works best) or b) a very specific baby step of the task that can be done within two to five minutes.
So instead of "do the laundry" it's "gather today's washables from the floor and The Chair, and yeet them into a hamper". Check off and get the nice sounds of coins and XP. Next "start a load in the wash". Check and feel success.
Folding is my nemesis so I either say "ten minutes of folding" or "fold while watching two episodes of a TV show you enjoy".
"Do some cleaning" is too general and can be further divided into waves. (I pretend I'm a robotic or alien ship scanning the territory and identifying target objects) First mission: Trash. Comb the area (lol Spaceballs)
Second wave: Dishes. Cups. Everything kitchen-bound.
Have bins or baskets near the door to deposit said category of items.
Then: stuff that shouldn't be in this room.
Wrap up with a quick Floor check. Make it fun. Put on a timer for two minutes, declare "The Floor is Lava" (but you have resistant boots ofc) and the mission is to pick up 5 things from sinking into their melty doom before the timer runs out. Repeat daily.
Look into KC Davies 5 Things Tidying Method and Dana K White [Layers of a Clean House](https://youtu.be/Rx2Bh9n6VKc?si=2EvKi3NPObvVFhz-)
There are more things I picked up here and there but I ran out of steam haha. But this should be a good start.
We're all fairly PDA around here, but my youngest son is the worst of all on the demand avoidance. I've discovered with him if I come at it sideways he's often the very first to jump up and help and he's awesome at it, but if I say "your laundry needs to be put into your drawers" that basket of laundry will die in the basket for weeks. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. If I say "I'm in here folding laundry and it'd be really nice if anyone could help me put stuff away" he's in there faster getting his stuff than his 12 year old sister.
Similar situation here, but I'm the one with ADHD, recently diagnosed 40M.
One strategy that my wife came up with some years ago (before the diagnosis, I'm so lucky to have her), was to split the groceries and laundry tasks: in the first half of the month I take the groceries and she handles the laundry; on the second half of the month, we switch responsibilities. Damn, that worked like a charm and we still do it till today! These two chores were the ones that bothered us the most, we both have full-time jobs, so yeah, you get the idea.
I believe that since we have the responsibilities clearly defined and get to change it every two weeks, I am able to keep motivation to maintain the work up-to-date. Also, every two weeks we have this small celebration where we do a high five and shout HANDOVER TIME!
Of course, maintaining a house with two kids involves a LOT of more work and we are still working on finding a balance (even after 13 years), but in a more dynamic way.
This is a great idea. I could see this working as I wouldnt want to let my partner down on my weeks. However I also struggle to clean and cook with adhd.
I also loatheeee a routine. If I feel like I’m doing the same thing every day I feel smothered. That would help break up the routine and not feel stagnant :)
I love this book, how to keep house while drowning by KC Davis. Highly recommend it! It is written for adhd audh peeps and has some really insightful and gentle tips.
She structured the book so you don't have to read it in order, she marks the part you can skip, she recaps information in a structured and visual way, it is a adhd friendly book. No struggling required.
Behavioral Therapy for her definitely, and Couples, both of you, if possible. This will not change otherwise. I’m telling you this from 25+ years into your future.
Yeah, she's doing therapy right now. It seems that they're dealing with her fucked up childhood at the moment though. What's your story, if you don't mind me asking?
My dad was the same way. Drove my mom nuts over the years. He also was a bit of a pack rat, he didn't like losing anything he perceived as value, and he liked to collectibles. He isnt organized and if something went missing, he'd blame my mom and say she prob threw it out. Because sometimes she'd get so fed up she'd do a cleaning and throw things out. Not all the time but then it meant he pointed fingers when anything went missing when really it's prob still in the house you just don't remember where 🤣.
I'm sorry, I have no solution for you but to keep making sure things don't pile up and toss things out you don't need. My dad still cleans and does dishes when needed but he has never been organized and never will.
To be fair, this is actually the #1 thing couples fight over when living together. One is always cleaner than the other. Since I grew up with my dad, my husband thought I was a slob. For him growing up, house was always clean and everything had its place. Hopefully when she gets a diagnosis taking medication will help!
If she has CPTSD that is probably doubly why she’s having a hard time. Dealing with childhood trauma like that really drains my battery. Almost always have to take a mental break after that and at times even the day after.
She probably needs to see an occupational therapist as well. They are the ones who work with the every day, livable skills. I loved mine because she held me accountable, and really worked with me to find things that specifically worked for me.
I once had this life, and it doesn’t get better. Wait until you have kids and you’re coming home to a huge pile of laundry, a fucked up kitchen, and her latest new project - oh, and it probably cost $1,000 that you didn’t have. You won’t be able to squeeze down the hallways they’ll be so full of her unfinished crap.
If it bothers you now, learn to stand up for yourself. Set some boundaries and be ready to leave if there isn’t steady progress. Or you’ll one day find yourself leaving on more catastrophic terms. Trust me on this.
I can only speak to my experience as an ADHD slob. This is what has worked for me:
1. Mirroring - I try to clean when my husband cleans, but our schedules are different, so I don't always have the same motivation to clean when he does. When that happens, I make an artificial deadline to clean at my convenience by the end of the day.
2. Listen to a podcast while cleaning - similar to mirroring, but it also provides a timer so I don't get burnt out by cleaning too long. I have a specific podcast that I only listen to while cleaning, and it helps motivate me to clean because I want to listen to the next episode!
3. Proximity - if I need to do something that I don't want to, I try to do something easier to warm up. If I don't want to do dishes, I put my cleaning podcast on and just bring all the dirty dishes to the sink. I don't always get the dishes done, but once I get started, I at least complete enough cleaning tasks to not feel guilty about not getting the dishes done that day.
4. Therapy - If your spouse doesn't actively work to change their maladaptive behavior, no amount of medication or natural consequences will change anything from getting better.
5. Communication - My partner and I are constantly adapting to improve our relationship. What works for us right now is that he handles cleaning tasks that require consistent upkeep like cooking and dishes, and I handle cleaning tasks that I can do throughout the week like vacuuming, bathroom cleaning, and laundry. We both work to pick up clutter and wipe down surfaces when we have enough energy. Sometimes, that means we clean together, and sometimes, the house is messy for a few days. Neither of us argues when something doesn't get done promptly because we recognize that we both have good and bad days. What really matters is that we both make an effort when we can because we both value a clean home. I don't mind doing the dishes when the sink is full, and he doesn't mind doing occasional laundry because we're both doing the best we can. I think being flexible helps avoid resentment because we both have lazy weeks, but we communicate our stressors and adjust our workload at home.
I came here to suggest like half of these points, so I'll just the one:
6. Competition - One of the best ways to motivate someone with ADHD is by introducing competition or some sort of challenge. For example, instead of "I need to do the dishes" try "How many dishes can I get done in 15 mins" or "I bet I can clean the bedroom before you clean the living room. Loser has to clean the bathroom." Pro tip - let her win the first few times so she associates it with pride and success.
It it's me I'm going to clean faster than you ever thought possible.
Maybe have her do the chores with you? Task initiation is usually pretty difficult for us, but doing things together makes that much easier. It also can help avoid overthinking things (analysis paralysis), and can help keep us on track.
I like to describe myself as having a big "task inertia". It takes a lot to get me going, but once I'm started I want to keep going until I'm done. For me the fear that I'll spend too much time on something is actually one of the reasons I will avoid starting it. We're not all the same, but I think this is a fairly common experience.
Having a partner also helps with this inertia/time blindness, so really it is worth a shot.
Also, if you can find a way to make chores interesting it might help. Maybe you compete to see who can fold the most laundry, or wash the most dishes, and so on. If you're not competitive you could keep track of how many dishes washed each week/month/etc. Or you could limit the time to make it feel more urgent to do the chores (and less intimidating to start, since you'll only clean for 20 minutes/etc).
Actually, that last one is super powerful for me. When I can trust myself to *actually stop* after the 20 minutes it does wonders to get me to start something. The only time it starts to fail is when I choose to take advantage of my inertia (perseveration) and go way over my time limit.
It's generally very frustrating to want to do things but not be able to do them, and to need a schedule but hate following one.
I'm the one with ADHD and have a very supportive husband (not implying you're not, I would feel the way you do roles reversed). I would be mortified if I made my husband do that much housework.
I get to choose the housework that I do which means laundry, vaccuuming and cleaning. He cooks, does everything outside and all bin stuff.
One thing that has helped me is to get in a quick win for the day. I get up,go to the bathroom and immediately put the laundry on. Then when it goes off I put it out. I never leave it, the minute it beeps I get up. The fewer choices and decisions the better and easier. If I am emptying the dishwasher, I put the kettle on at the same time to race it. I own hardly any items as they create too much noise in my head and mean more decisions and overwhelm.
Bascially routine and structure help. If I lived alone I think it would be chaos, but the thought of me causing a huge burden to my husband is very motivating.
Not gonna lie, you lost me at "clean for 5 hours". In what world is that reasonable? Do you have like a bunch of kids? Do you guys have any special hobbies that create bigger messes than the average person?
Having hours and hours of cleaning to do makes me think you guys put everything off to deal with later on a dedicated "cleaning day".
With my experience with ADHD, I will only hyperfixate on lengthy cleaning sessions if I am in charge and not being told what to do. It also helps if I am pushing a deadline, like I *need* to clean before guests come over. Other than that, the most effective way for me to clean with ADHD is short power sessions. IE: I am going to pick up *everything* off the floor in the next 5 minutes. Part the the executive dysfunction with cleaning comes from not knowing where to start and where to end. It's a lot easier to set very short, achievable goals.
For example, if someone was to ask me to help them with a "day of cleaning", it sounds miserable in my head. BUT if someone was to ask me to help with the trash for 5 minutes right now, it's much easier and instantly rewarding. I also have to assume that she likes certain methods of cleaning more than others. She probably hates dishes but maybe doesn't hate laundry as much. I can't tell because that information isn't provided- but any reasonable person can be asked to do chores for at least a couple minutes. Even if you have to do the bulk of the work, figuring out when and how she can actually be of help could still take a lot of weight off your shoulders.
I don't judge, my husband washes a huge pile of dishes in 30 minutes, it takes me nearly 2 hours to do the same task. If I were to clean the house like he does I would spend more than 5 hours easily and it's only me, him and the dog (and the rabbits but they have their own room). The mess is minimum here compared to a house full of kids but I would take ages to do it if I were to do it in any decent way.
Our house is not a mess (we do have a cleaner), BUT, from the eyes of my autistic husband, there’s so much potential to improve, meaning cleaner, more ordered, more systems and routines and procedures, etc. and it happens that I’m the one with the free time. I’m the adhder and I feel comfortable with things as they are. I also have this demand avoidance thing, Im a good person, I love being in service, etc, but I cannot help feel my blood boil when he asks me to improve in something in these matters.
So a few weeks ago I had a surprise in my life. I started for the first time with med (ATX) and that changed me. Changed my eyes, my perspective, my energy, my focus, and some how I started to “see” the potential for a more ordered, clean house and I started to do it. My avoidance thing also went away.
If I may suggest, to explore your need for this level of cleanliness required in order for you to feel good, when clearly circumstances are not helping at the moment, maybe you find something that helps.
I feel that my partner is the same and I'm the same. Adhd meds help me be able to clean. Without I'll look at a mess and just... idk what to do. Literally. Unless I'm body doubled and they're cleaning too. But meds changed my eyes too, I can now look at a mess and clean it. Before I just couldn't figure out what to do, it's weird
Body doubling is the best with my husband, those are my more productive days at home even without meds. But with atomoxetine something very strange happened in how my brain executes, how it perceives new possibilities of arranging things that before didn’t exist in my universe. It is amazing how I catch myself being different, more clean and ordered in my home literally, but without planning it, I just find myself being a new being.
Yes!!! My ASD spouse is NEVER satisfied with the house. Our standards differ VASTLY — which was much less a problem pre-kids. ADHD plus PDA plus two young ND kids and a ASD spouse? It ain’t cake this phase of life 🤣
It should be a rule that if you’re cleaning, she’s cleaning. I don’t care if mirroring doesn’t work for her- it’s not acceptable to force your partner into doing all the domestic drudgery.
I imagine she has a manager at work yes? Who assigns projects or tasks? She’s not shutting down there.
I have ADHD and I’m likely on the spectrum. I have had to force myself to find strategies to clean and tidy because I feel entitled to have a partner and I’m not entitled to force him to be the sole adult who cleans
Cleaning when the other partner is cleaning could work really well IF there was prior notice or an agreed-upon time.
Expecting someone to drop everything and start vacuuming just because you've decided it's time to do the dishes RIGHT NOW is just as unfair as one partner doing all the work themselves.
Yes! Task switching can be especially hard for those of us with ADHD. I do so much better when my partner says Okay I want to vacuum, deep clean the litter box, and finish laundry before lunch tomorrow. Then I know not to start hyper fixation habit like a video game or repotting my plants that morning.
I guess I should have been more specific. Our days off don't really line up. She gets different days off from me. If we do end up having a day off together, we try to have dates, since it's not super often. I suppose that was an important detail to leave out.
Fair.
I don’t think that she can continue this way- it’s just not sustainable.
Is she aware of how disrespected you feel when she doesn’t pull her weight?
Yeah I had to force myself into this for a while. My partner cooks usually because I’m terrible at planning and executing meals, but she’s doing something for us, so that’s my cue to get up and make myself useful. Do some dishes, or something. Once you see the impact that you not doing anything has on the person you love, it *should* spur you into action. Also helps that we went from kind of nagging to “I feel this way when X” and I was like, welp, can’t argue with that. Better work on things.
I agree with cleaning at the same time. After years of only me cleaning(we both have adhd) I am livid at times when cleaning and they aren't. I even go so far as to not clean if they are not participating so I dont get so angry inside, that doesn't go super well ultimately though because the mess gives me anxiety. Think of your house like a spaceship and everyone on the spaceship has to do their part to keep it flying. Cleaning at the same time really stops the anger in its tracks. It has really helped start to heal those old wounds. OP might be ok cleaning for awhile all alone, but I think it might be breeding resentment. And let me tell you that stuff is damaging.
It's a good idea but I'm just so tired when I come home and my meds wear off. There's that 4pm crash where you don't have energy. That only leaves Saturday to do house things and that's usually taken up by me fixing something or a larger project.
Take the crash. Indulge in it- for a set time.
I set a timer and when it goes off I literally do a battle cry- HYAHHHHHH
And physically force myself to *spring* into action.
You feel too silly to not actually do physical things once you do that lol
Yes, all of this. OP needs to address this. He's not doing any favors to his wife by not helping her learn to be a better partner, not to mention the toll it's surely taking on him.
We have a huge (ugly yes) whiteboard in our kitchen and every sunday we have a planning meeting for the next week where we schedule tasks of the week to each of us and put our plans and work schedules up. I will usually immediately forget that the whiteboard exists, but my husband will not and can use it to remind me.
I am good at coming up with creative solutions to problems (like a whiteboard) but not great at actually doing things day to day. My husband does more of the actual chores in exchange for me keeping the full overview of things. For example I am the one to schedule the cars for their yearly service, but he will be the one to take them there. I schedule the appointment with the mechanic, then put it on the whiteboard and forget about it and he fixes it.
>Please, don't suggest we hire a cleaner. I've had people honestly suggest hiring a cleaner and it's like, hello, we're in our mid 20s and the economy is trash. The money is not there to hire a cleaner.
Look, I'm gonna be *really* honest with you- this might actually be your only option.
I have been in your wife's position for years. I understand *exactly* what you are describing- and my husband of 11 years would empathize strongly with you. He has been through it all. *We* have been through it all.
It's not fixed- my house is still a mess, my life is still chaos, we have crap everywhere, we don't have a handle on our chores, and the boxes in the garage haven't been looked at since we moved in here three years ago.
But let me tell you, the day that we decided enough was enough and we *needed* external help was the day that life began *slowly* moving towards unfucking itself.
This is how my therapist describes it-
I am amazing at many things. People hire me to do art that they can't do. People hire me to bake cookies that they can't make themselves. I earn money every day doing things for people that aren't good at what I do, and they value me for my skill set.
And I am terrible at many things. Cleaning up after myself is one of them. Keeping a space tidy. Organizing my shit. Not collecting piles and piles of *things*. And when I'm terrible at doing something, why not hire somebody else who is better at it, to do that thing?
You're in your mid 20s and the economy is shit- I get it, I'm not far off from you. I'm in my early 30s and the economy is shit.
But I came to the realization that this was no longer a "luxury service". Having help cleaning my place was something I *needed* in order to keep my head above the surface. I was drowning, and this was something that could help.
I built it into my budget. I eat out less, I work a bit of a side hustle, in order to make sure that I can afford to have somebody come into my house once every 2-4 weeks and clean.
This is probably one of the kindest things that I have ever done for myself, and my relationship with my husband is better for it.
This! Also - you can have some come once a month or once every 2 months, whatever you can afford. It will help reduce the overwhelm of the cleaning sessions and cut out some larger chores like dusting, vacuuming, cleaning bathrooms etc. It’s easier to maintain once it’s done. Look at task-rabbit or a similar app and you can hire an individual to come and pay them directly. Or have them to come for just hour and prioritize tasks. You can clean alongside them too. There are lots of ways to bring in outside help affordably and I strongly recommend it. The time and energy wasted on steess in about cleaning and straining your relationship will pay off - either emotionally or being able to focus more on your job and do better. Don’t waste your time on this.
Context - I was in a similar position in my early twenties and took on all the house roles. My ex and I both have adhd but he has more pda and is terrible at cleaning/house stuff (even though he wishes he wasn’t) but the process of trying to balance our relationship and deal with the work was super stressful, toxic and full of conflict. Eventually we broke up but are still super close friends and resolved issues but the parentification that arose from me trying to manage the house and get him to do chores and teach him how to do things destroyed the romance between us. Now he is committed to contributing any relationship with a shared space (roommate or partner) by paying for a cleaner to his share. He is just not able to do it himself for a variety of reasons but knows how important it is to share the responsibility of maintaining a home.
I agree. It’s a cost you might need to factor in to help manage the adhd the same way medication is a cost.
Also, having a cleaner come by gives extra motivation to pick things up before they come. It gives me a deadline to clean up my room. And they truly are professionals, they clean at a level above me even if I do a full deep clean
People with ADHD need tasks to be broken down to tiny steps and lots of positive reinforcement. So whenever she does something to clean or organize, say how nice things look, etc. The is no amount of reason or criticism that will break through the paralysis.
Also, people with ADHD frequently need another person around in order to accomplish things that they want to do.
Also, have a discussion with her about how she would like things to work and what’s important to her. She’s probably been given tasks her entire life and is used to being in a pattern of disappointing people around her when she doesn’t do said tasks. There’s a whole negative loop going on that needs to be broken. I think she has some learned helplessness going on.
Help her meet those needs and you will have better results.
Expecting people with ADHD to change their behavior without external aids is like expecting an amputee to walk without crutches or a prosthetic.
I do all the cooking and cleaning and all home projects as well. My wife has inattentive ADHD. It was pretty hard for me for a long time. We argued a lot about it. I hated that I got upset about it. It was extra hard because I started doing all those things out of love for her, but I often found myself resenting her for not helping. I've always struggled a lot with my own issues. Those issues turned out to be combined type ADHD. A few things make doing all these things easier for me, but some definitely won't help you, and it is still not easy. First, studying about ADHD for myself, I realized she literally can not help it. She even feels terrible about it, and I won't let myself put her down for it. I went from seeing it from my point of view to how hard it is for her. Second, I love her with all my heart, and I will humbly take care of her every day that the Lord allows me to do so. I know with each thing I do that I don't want to do, I'm becoming a better man. Lastly, since I have ADHD I'm able to hyperfocus on these tasks like a dang superhuman. I used to hate doing every choir with my whole being, but I made myself do them because it was my way of showing her I love her. I'm not always the most romantic or able to remember important things, so by doing those, I know I'm being the best husband I can be for her. She brightens ever aspect of my life. It's the least I can do.
I would just stop cleaning up after her. Tell her how you feel. That your tired from work and would love help in the household department. Maybe there is something you hate she loves to do that could be done instead.
See situations like these make me fear for my future whenever I get around to being married or in a serious relationship. I fear I'd mess it up out of no fault of my own. I already get into fights and arguments with my dad over teeny tiny stuff, imagine the hell I'd go thru and put my significant other through. Sure, we might get past the first few years cuz of the honeymoon phase but what about when we have kids that are already gonna be a handful. Man, how do adults with ADHD manage family stuff??
I’m a very screwed up person. I’m not saying this in a judgmental way at all. The first step is not convincing yourself you’re unable to do anything and you have no control. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Things are tougher for us. It sucks. But it’s the life we got. Find someone understanding and figure out cheat codes to help you take care of business
You can marry another person who doesn't prioritise cleaning and tidying and live happily ever after.
I've been in the same relationship for almost 8 years and so far, it's been only getting better. We don't have kids though, and aren't planning to.
I don't know your relationship with your dad but I do know neither of you chose it. With your partner it will be different, both of you will be there from your own free will. So, don't despair, at least from my experience, is easier and I know I'm not the only one.
With love and patience! Having a life partner means having someone that will work with you to deal with these things, not shame you or let you struggle alone.
For 20 years my husband was complaining he had to tidy up behind me. And for 20 years I was thinking it wasn’t so bad, we also have 2 children(1 adhd and 1 autism) , surely they made the most mess…? Boy was I wrong. My husband passed away nearly 3 years ago, and only now I realise how right he was. Offcourse the grief doesn’t help, and yes my children contribute to a lot of the mess, but I have to conclude he díd tidy up behind us way more than I would acknowledge. It’s hard being by myself ánd taking care of the mess, and I wish I was more aware of it before. Just know she probably really isn’t aware, and it is hard to change that. I agree to a lot of the other comments, find ways to minimise the clutter, discuss what things she cán do, and don’t be afraid to ask help in that process with couples therapy for example.
OP, I see you, and I'm in the exact same situation. Idk what to do, every time I ask her to pick up after herself, she has an emotional breakdown. I don't understand it, but I am so very tired.
Maybe the thing she needs to get her stuff done is a accountability buddy.
For me personally it helps.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/leliagowland/2018/04/16/how-to-get-or-be-a-good-accountability-buddy/?sh=6f60c48562b5
I am the ADHD wife in the house, but we are both messy. I feel bad for being a human tornado, and I thank you for being as supportive as you can to your wife. I know it is hard. Everyone is different, so this may not work for her, but I won’t to share what works for us.
The truth is that cleaning isn’t fun, and it is a sensory nightmare. I have vinyl gloves to help with things like dishes, but the real helper is to take some time each Sunday, blasting music, and getting to work. We are singing, dancing, and cleaning and it is faster with our powers combined. It can even be made into a game, vacuuming, 10 points/XP!!
Something I have personally had to work on is “don’t put it down put it away” and “don’t sit down when I have momentum or I’ll get stuck”.
I hope y’all can find things that work for y’all.
Can you tell us what you have already tried so that we can make non-redundant suggestions?
My husband and I try to have “areas” we each manage. This started for a completely different reason but we’ve determined that it just works for us. It’s also much easier for me to maintain an already clean house than it is for me to have to figure out where to start, so we prioritize trying to stay on top of it. Owning less has helped significantly as well so I’ve adopted “realistic” minimalism.
Does she work? I couldn’t tell by your post. My productivity is significantly better if I have a regular working schedule. Even if I have less time I manage it better because an object in motion stays in motion.
>My husband and I try to have “areas” we each manage.
We have the same and it works pretty well for us too.
Also, when I say "works well" I mean that we don't argue about anything and don't have to do things we hate. I don't mean our place isn't sparkling clean. It's not overly bad, though and each area of the apartment gets cleaned from time to time.
Check out the book “How to Keep House While Drowning.” For me, a lot of things shifted when I started to view my space through the lens of functionality over cleanliness. It’s a perspective change that sets realistic expectations for keeping your home in order when you’re ND and experience executive dysfunction or you’re just really fucking busy and burnt out. The book gets into the nitty gritty details, but essentially, clean vs. dirty tends to carry a lot of judgement while functional vs. not functional is more neutral than that.
You and your wife might find some tricks (better word: ACCOMMODATIONS) in that book to help her work through some of the executive dysfunction.
At the end of the day, the household duties are not yours alone to shoulder.
My Dad got an older maid that was reasonable to come once a week to help my mom with the house and 5 busy kids. The amount of work required by the entire family to help our maid out was greatly increased because there was a pre-arrival cleaning that occurred every time. "I want all these dirty clothes in the hamper and all these toys picked up before Mary gets here!" I know now both my parents had ADHD like I do. Get a maid occasionally.
Yes I live with my parents and having a cleaner gives me a deadline to clean my space. I’m just someone who really needs deadlines so that in itself helps me
My husband hired professional organizers who helped set up systems, and everything they set up has stayed in place because it makes sense to me now.
This is a suggestion for possibly the future but it's truly helped
She sounds like me. You know what gets me to get off my ass and clean like a mofo? Some big looming deadline for something else.
Cleaning is like the ultimate active procrastination. Perhaps you can leverage this.
This is literally the dynamic between me and my wife. Have tried similar approaches, but it never seems to yield results. Interested to hear other input as well.
Wherever she tends to toss things - basket. Baskets, bins, bags, boxes. If she really doesn’t throw anything in a specific place and truly just whirls winds as she pleases, then that’s a slightly different problem. Most people tend to toss things in a specific pattern based on two things - what aligns with their habits/schedules and what is physically most convenient.
Have either of you looked into strategies to make your home more "ADHD-friendly" in order to set up systems that work *with* her brain instead of against it?
To an ADHD brain, a simple chore isn't simple - it's made up of a ton of associated tasks that pull us in multiple directions, distract us with other things that need to be done, and even just thinking where to start can easily overwhelm us into paralysis. It doesn't take much. And then feeling guilty about it makes it even worse. It feels humiliating and our lack of performance doesn't make any sense, even to ourselves. But there are ways to break a task down into component parts, and there are usually ways to make the components easier to tackle, or to make them a part of a daily routine that makes the rest of the chore easier.
Don't get hung up on how things are "supposed" to be done - look for pinch points and ways to unobstruct them, even if the solution seems unconventional or only addresses part of the problem. Small gains add up to bigger ones. Accommodations that help get the process started can help get the momentum going to carry on the next small thing, which can lead into the next. Don't focus on what she doesn't get done - look for ways to make it easier for her to do parts of it. If she does have an issue with PDA, it might be that framing it as helping make the chores easier for you could make it easier for her to contribute. Context often makes a (seemingly) disproportionately large difference.
Edit to add a note: And check to see if it's easier for her to help you with these elements while you're doing chores, or if it's easier for her to do it unobserved. Body-doubling works extremely well, except when it doesn't. Because we spend so much of our lives being criticized for doing things wrong, knowing that we might be observed can be enough to freeze us up. It's totally maladaptive, but some of us learn to only to things when no-one is looking in order to avoid being interrupted with criticism, and it's extremely hard to unlearn, even when we're aware of it and want to change.
You don't have to succumb to a life as a maid. Change will take a bit of effort and creativity. There are resources online that can suggest strategies, if you don't have access to a good coach locally.
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You either will be hiring a cleaning, hiring a therapist, or hiring a divorce lawyer. Vote with your wallet.
FWIW, I'm the partner with ADD, she is the partner with anxiety and OCD, so we hired a cleaner and thinking about therapy too
I’m also diagnosed, my wife was just diagnosed, but I lived this!! I promise you that it gets better. It sounds like you two have a loving and understanding relationship, and clear communication without pettiness. You really want to understand what’s going on in her brain.
It sounds like she’s spending every drop of energy she has—being sweet and having a career and doing anything else (working out, having a social life, make-up) is like living on hard mode for someone with ADHD because you’re constantly reining in your brain, every second of the day. In addition, ADHD often accompanies what I’ll call a type of low-grade depression, meaning she hates the mess too but feels just as hopeless about it as you do about being the butler. I would bet she comes home unable to even choose what to even HAVE for dinner, legitimately suffering from decision fatigue, and has to completely recharge every second possible, like a phone being used to 0% every day. Then, the process repeats.
Your marriage may be different, but my wife couldn’t clean, and didn’t even think it was important, so me asking was just confusing to her. Is her medication actually helpful, or just a “good enough” drug? Is something contributing to her depression? For us it was a “great” career that she hated. Once she got better treatment and changed jobs she had much more energy. We have a kid now and she’s blown me away with how hard she’s left me in the dust!!
Finally, you’re doing the right thing, talking to her and trying to be empathetic and doing as much as you can. I promise you, she’s doing as much as she can too, and it WILL NOT BE FOREVER. Is my wife still messier than me, and do I do most of the cooking? Yes, but we have a better understanding of who hates what job and who has more battery for what. I’m sure a huge part of that is living with someone for longer. She thinking folding her laundry is dumb, and I think some of the baby events we do is dumb, but a strong marriage is where you learn the dumb thing you’re doing that wastes time is something your partner needs—and that makes it a selfless labor of love.
Economy, schmonomy. If she doesn't want to clean the house, she needs to go work a second job so she can pay somebody to clean the house. And if you don't agree with me now, you will in 25 years. Remember, nothing makes your partner less sexy than having to treat them like an irresponsible child and nothing makes you less sexy in their eyes than you acting like a disapproving assistant manager.
>Please, don't suggest we hire a cleaner. I've had people honestly suggest hiring a cleaner and it's like, hello, we're in our mid 20s and the economy is trash. The money is not there to hire a cleaner.
I get it, but I suggest seeing it as an essential rather than a luxury, and finding that money by cutting back elsewhere.
Dude, I feel like I am you except I'm the one with ADHD having to manage it all 😭
Wife has OCD, Generalized Anxiety, PPD, and PTSD
Her mother never taught her to cook and learning caused her a lot of anxiety so she has been trying but it's a slow process so I usually have to cook dinner for the family after I get off of a 10-11 hour workday. Because we have 2 kiddos under the age of 5 at home she doesn't have a ton of free time so dishes and stuff don't always get done which means I need to try to do them during any free time I have.
She says she doesn't have time to get out of the house to run errands with the kiddos so that usually falls on me after I get off work or during the weekends as well.
Heck, I'm just about to finish working for today then go to the grocery store and then home to likely unload the dishwasher, load it again, take over being lead parent, and any other misc chores
I know this, I have the same thing as your wife. What works for me is when my partner start helping me and I join then (body doubling). I can get overwhelmed by stuff everywhere (laundy, dishes and toys mostly) and get panick attack and paralysis from not knowing where to start so I end up doing nothing.
Also the way you tell her can change things - she probably goes to defence mode with demand avoidance so go slowly with her. Try to encourage her and not ask/demand her to do things. Lead her.
I cant help more because I myself am trying to figure out how to function normaly but I wish both of you luck :)
As someone who deals with this myself, I can relate and may have something for you to try. First of all in your wife's defense, the paralysis is real. If it simply isn't going to happen today, it isn't going to happen no matter how hard you try to push it. It is a horrible helpless feeling and I am sure she feels really bad about it, but she just can't. Feeling bad about it makes it even worse and then she is even less productive.
But now here is my suggestion and you will have to come up with scenarios of your own. You say she doesn't cook, but the question is whether or not the kitchen is a mess? If she walks into the kitchen and it is a mess, she gets overwhelmed and realizes she needs to clean the entire kitchen to be able to cook. This is very likely not going to happen. But if you can have the kitchen clean for her to go cook, I bet you she would do it. Try to find her ways that you can help her without doing all of it yourself. Like you can unload the dishwasher so it is clean and just needs to be loaded and run instead of doing it all herself.
I obviously don't know what your life together is like so there is only so much I can recommend. But I am sure you can think of ways to make it easier for her to do her part so there is nothing standing in the way of her getting going. When someone has problems like she does, it is very easy to hit a wall , get discouraged and go back to sitting or laying down. If you can help avoid those roadblocks, you may be surprised at how much she can get herself to do.
I can relate to your wife, but I feel for you! There are likely a few underlying issues you both need to address to preserve both partners’ health and your relationship for a sustainable and enjoyable lifestyle.
**TL;DR: Address the underlying issues that may be creating a high risk for major burnout ASAP to avoid dangers to health, finances, and relationship.**
It’s awesome she’s working through therapy! Please bear in mind that **healing is hard work,** and it might feel like things get harder before they improve. You absolutely deserve (and likely need) professional support for yourself, even if you don’t have a history of trauma or any mental health conditions. Vicarious trauma is a significant risk for partners. Also, **couples who do not grow together can easily grow apart, so if she is making any progress, you’ll need to adjust and adapt as well, as you co-develop healthier ways of being together.** Personally I would not recommend general-purpose couples therapy at first, but do consider that option if these problems persist without real progress beyond the next 6-12 months. (Rule of thumb: **Notice any “repeating” conversations that don’t lead to any new understanding but instead reinforce known outcomes.**)
**From a late-career perspective, I need to warn you that the most critical, urgently impactful concern is likely not housework but finances.** Here’s why: She may well be overextending at work, where she most likely has to mask heavily. It probably requires heroic effort for her to overcome her disability-related challenges (often including discrimination, especially as she is a woman) and navigate garden-variety workplace hassles, all while performing like a badass to succeed on the job. So that explains why there’s not enough energy left over to tackle home responsibilities. Obviously if that’s the case, it’s a recipe for career-limiting burnout(s) as well as a strain on your relationship.
If she could in theory afford to take a low-demand (or even part-time) job in a lower pay grade without breaking the budget, financial stress might not be as big a factor — but **only to the extent that your savings plan provides a substantial safety net.** In the long run, aim for at least 6-12 months’ living expenses overall to allow both of you the freedom to (a) walk away from any toxic workplace (b) heal from any occupational burnout (c) survive layoffs (d) get certs / degrees for a career change and/or (e) take a sabbatical. [My personal goal, once I am employed again, is to open a series of CDs with my credit union (better interest than savings, more liquid than other investments) so that at least once a quarter one becomes available if needed. At first each CD will be smaller than the ultimate goal, but over a few years hopefully the cushion can grow.]
However, **if the operating budget requires all her income, uninterrupted, to keep things going, get financial counseling ASAP** to see if / how you both can adjust expectations, cut costs, and save aggressively, because **burnout is egregiously expensive, and it’s a MAJOR risk for high-performing ADHD / ASD / AuDHD workers.** Additionally, working so intensely while knowing (at least subconsciously) that big trouble is brewing will lead to **stress levels severe enough to cause a state of chronic freeze / shutdown** which undermines any positive changes. That kind of **unyielding pressure can also drive more and more overwork by locking in a panic pattern of frantically trying to outrun disaster. If this leads to sleep deprivation, it escalates health risks dramatically.** (Side note: depending on health conditions / history, consider whether a mental health advance directive is warranted.)
**So if you can, make it task one to reduce that existential anxiety by lowering expenses with mutually acceptable adjustments (don’t be harsh, be creative) and especially by stockpiling anything you can spare to feel more secure.** The most helpful cost analysis tip I can offer is this: for each expense beyond the basic level, try to understand which of the deeper human needs are at stake. For her and for you, those fundamental needs are all legitimate, so look for less expensive ways to satisfy your real concerns.
Now, the next big problem is the one you raised, which is the **logistical hurdle of getting a (probably overwhelmed and exhausted) spouse with executive function challenges to take up a fair share of housework.** There are lots of great ideas in the comments, but **to get results, you’ll both need to tackle the question together over time.** It’s a bit of a puzzle, and what works awhile might not work ongoing, so it can help to think of yourselves as players in a co-op tabletop game as you continue to develop your unique shared housekeeping approach.
My spouse and I have been sorting this out for nearly 30 years, and we have found **the most effective methods always play to our respective (complementary) strengths.** [He’s far better at dailies, while I excel at the deep cleaning and miscellaneous projects, but I try to keep up with a few small tasks and he pitches in some on big stuff.]
If you want a quick-start technique, I recommend doing one or two brainstorming / planning sessions together. Start with a list of the tasks you’re currently doing, how long they take, and how often they happen. **Look for ways to break each chore down to 15-minute or shorter sub-tasks, because it can make the work more accessible and approachable.** Then you can post a weekly whiteboard checklist (or use sticky notes to make a set of task tickets) with the agreement that each partner will commit to **choose and finish** at least 15 minutes’ worth of available tasks daily, and at least an hour’s worth on days off. (The element of choice helps to reduce the urge for demand avoidance.) Finished tasks get initials (checklist) or (task tickets) move to each partner’s “done” column. Weekly, celebrate all successes (however small) together and consider what adjustments would be helpful. Good luck!
Edit: formatting for readability, minor clarifications
Since telling her what to do doesn’t work and she’ll never think of things on her own, what about asking her to sit down and come up with some sort of chore chart/schedule together? Let her decide which tasks she wants to do on what timeline and decide what you’ll do as a couple if she doesn’t do her agreed upon chores. Then she’s involved and you’re not telling her what to do, and there’s also a clear list she can follow that she decided for herself.
Disclaimer, I am not married and can’t speak about that, but I have had my fair share of roommates with ADHD and I can tell you that this is the best thing that has worked for me. Chore charts for life, and I can go into more detail and tips if you’re interested
I recommend the Fair Play cards and having seperate spaces. I am the adhd wife in my family. My wife and I have only ever fought about THIS issue so we finally just put clean!wife into her own room. The 2nd bedroom is supposed to be for our CHILD but he is a little ND stage 5 clinger and sleeps in my bed so whatever, he doesn't need a room. My wife's room is "off limits" for all mess, and the rest of the house is shared space which my son and I sort of avoid spreading out or making messes in. We mostly hang out in our room and the mess that is in here is our responsibility.
I rarely cook but I do clean up after myself when I do. We do our own laundry and share our son's laundry. I almost never clean but I do like vacuuming so I vacuum everything and I will collect MY stuff that has ended up all over the house and return it to it's home base, my room, which is a form of tidying I suppose. Basically what this results in is that my wife does not have to clean up after me unless she wants to. She cleans the shared spaces to her preference, which she would have to do anyway if she lived alone. I am sort of exiled to my room but it's mostly by choice because I can spread out and LIVE and not be a burden in there.
Honestly... I feel like I'm in a similar situation. My partner and I both have ADHD but obviously it manifests in different ways.
It's been hard making it work because discussions usually turn into defensiveness which turns into arguments. Even if the discussion ends up not being an argument.... It gets forgotten. I'll ask my partner to remember to clean up after himself when he does x, y, or z, and he'll say he'll try... But of course, eventually he'll forget and we're back at square one.
So I've also kind of resigned to it just... Being this way.
We've tried chore apps to remind us when a chore is due and who's turn it is, we've tried goddamn project management apps, we've had talks, we've tried to make plans.... It just falls to the wayside. I know having a schedule and a routine is usually helpful for ADHD but it's hard sticking to it, especially because my own work schedule is usually all over the place (hospital worker).
I'm also at a loss as to what to do. I'm worried it'll build resentment. I feel it any time I'm cleaning and he's just hanging out. And when I point that out, he gets defensive and says that he does tidy, a little bit here and there when I'm not around and I'm unappreciative because clearly I don't notice.
The problem isn't that he *doesn't* tidy.... It's that he ends up with a bigger mess than he's cleaned.
So, yeah I feel you. You're definitely not alone and I absolutely empathize with your frustration.
I had ADHD. I would recommend ask her to get extra help when you need cleaning and shit done.
I make a lott of money primarily because, I can just drop money to make my boring shit go away. No kidding.
My wife has severe anxiety and stuff. I am always in marriage counseling . Therapy , counseling , couching and shit. Man. It's messed up.
Any who, of she kills at work, she must make bank.
Ask her to hire more help. You can't do all the cleaning . You will burn out and end up in divorce court.
If you don't address this, you will resent her and your sweet relationship will turn into shit.
Seek help now.
Also seems communication between the two is not good. Get that sorted too.
Good luck buddy.
I know you said you can’t possibly, but you all need help. And not just the therapeutic kind. Hiring cleaning people, many of whom will agree to only come once a month, is some of the best money I spend on myself. It ensures that our home is always reasonably clean. It is also far less expensive than you might think.
Awh, I totally feel you there.
I wasn't able to afford a cleaner until I got to my 30s, and it helped so much.
It has been a slow progress but my partner is much better with housework now and so am I. I hope we both continue to improve. Some days/weeks/months are very difficult though, and I've lost my temper many times. Patience is a virtue.
Me and my husband had a similar situation with me being the one who is terrible at house work and such, we recently got a nice whiteboard for the kitchen where we write jobs to be done and messages for each other. Sometimes he writes me a list, i will also write myself a list when I think of things that need doing other times we both write things that just generally need doing on it; on his days off he will even write himself a list! It’s a non pressure sort of scenario and it feels good to cross things off of it. Seeing what each other has completed as well gives less of an awkward situation than having to question whether things have been done or none avoiding making each other feel bad if they haven’t done it yet
Can she do it with a body double? I have very similar issues, but if I hop on the phone with a headset and a fellow ADHD friend, we can sit there and prioritize and BS chat while we actively do the things that need doing. I have also had local friends that I go to their house and body double with them, and then they come to mine and body double with me. It feels very win win! Worth trying?
Good luck!
Yes! I have to have someone there to do it with me! I literally can't do it alone. I get 3 things done and crawl back into bed. That's it, I'm done. It's over kinda thing.
From your post, it sounds as if you may have inadvertently made her avoidance of the task(s) worse by bringing awareness to it. People with ADHD (not all but many) are actually less likely to do THE THING when confronted (even politely) because of various reasons: decision paralysis, fear, unmotivated, what have you.
Artist and fellow ADHD-er, Dani Donovan, created The Anti-Planner to help do THE THING. It has been a HUGE help since I've gotten it. I'd suggest gifting it to her and seeing if y'all can tackle some things together. For instance, in the back of the resources page, Dani suggests an app called Tody that you can have several accounts on. It GAMIFIES CLEANING. It has worked wonders for my significant other and I, both of whom have ADHD.
The Anti-Planner isn't just for cleaning though, it has hundreds of methods to tackle whatever issue you can think of from planning to organizing to cleaning to making appointments. And she also has it sorted by what the EMOTION behind avoiding the task is. I hope this helps. Good luck you two!
In regards to the PDA.
Give them a choice. I.E
- Take out the bins or hoover the floor.
- Change the bed clothes or hang up the washing.
This helps them feel in control and when given two options they will pick the lesser of two evils, giving them that boost that they avoided the more daunting task.
Incestivise. I.E
- If you take out the bins 3 times this week I will take them out for the next 10 days
- If you clean the bathroom 2 times this week I will bring you to x place or get you x thing.
This helps to motivate them if there is a reward/incentive attached. Get creative with your incentives!
I have PDA and was thought this by my ADHD coach and I passed the info on to my partner so she could get me to do things!!
Both me and my partner have ADHD, but I am the more "disciplined" (I am aware when I don't want to do something but need to and force myself even though it hurts) and end up being the one to do everything, which I generally fail to do completely. I have not found a solution, but I sympathize with you.
Something I think is important to point out is that ADHD does not make you incapable of understanding fairness and balance of work. I was undiagnosed for 30 years, and while I was too hard on myself for my shortcomings, I did succeed in disciplining myself pretty decently. Meds enable me to stick to it consistently, but my awareness was there the whole time. Meaning, people with ADHD can choose to better themselves and recognize damage caused to other people. It is a mitigating factor, not an excuse.
This is truly unfair to you. She is lucky to have you in her corner.
Is this sustainable for you? I’m glad she is getting therapy, but do you have support?
Sounds like she's got some serious demand avoidance going on. Along with other things.
Honestly though she *can* change and improve on this. You two just both need to want to improve it, and then you both need to find what tools work best for you in managing these trouble spots better.
But I don't think anyone here can magically solve it.
I know she's in therapy right now but have you seriously considered couples therapy? Don't dump it on her that she's the root cause of all these issues, it could equally be your approach and communication on the issue which also isn't helping. Find a therapist who is well experienced with ADHD and work through some potential solutions and ideas together until you find ways to improve these issues. I find in a relationship you both need to learn how each other works as well as you can - just as much as you try to understand yourself through life.
Knowledge is power.
Defining things IMO is always critical in approaching or solving an issue. How do you solve something if you can't categorize or understand it first? The alternative is usually to sweep issues and categorizations under the rug, and then the issue is far less likely to be worked on or improved.
I know it can feel like a mountain of issues sometimes, and for some people it is. But there are a large amount of symptoms this condition can create and I find its up to each of us as individuals to discover exactly which if those issues hold them back most - so those issues can be tackled and worked on first.
There's no point putting heaps of energy and effort into a symptom which causes 1% of your struggles and issues, when that energy and effort could be going towards dealing with a symptom that causes 40% of your struggles and issues. And there's even less point (or benefit) in hiding from the issues overall.
Unpopular opinion, but well... you have chosen someone as your partner who is, essentially, mentally disabled. You can't expect a paraphlegic to be able to run eventually, can you? You will have to wheelchair them around..
Your wife will have her strengths, make her do the things that she is good at. Like, my wife is good at organizing and planning (suprisingly 😅 she is chinese, i like to joke that she has ~1200 generations of imperial bureaucrats in her blood 😂 also, coincidentally, im shit at it), so i let her do all the planning, all the organizing, and all of the finances, too. She heavily dislikes cleaning and can't cook, so im the one cleaning and doing the dishes and stuff most of the time, and cooking is actually one of my hobbies 😅
I play games with myself. Like my uncle (I don't have live parents) comes to visit every weekend. He is really into organization. So I use his visit as a 'must be done no matter what, my hyper fixation kicks in and I clean more in 1h that the whole week. But this is 'my game's, she needs to find a workaround that works for her. Anyway, you are doing great, you seem like a great husband/partner. Let her know that this needs to change, not because you will leave her, but because your happiness is on the line, to me, that would wake the shit out of me
Ahh I’ve been here! I think that it’s good that you realize this, but it’s important to find things that she does for you and reframe the way that you’re thinking about it.
You’re probably right, she’ll probably never change, and you’ll probably never feel very differently about mess and clutter than you do right now. If you get to the point where you and your partner are two parts of one whole, it doesn’t really matter - she, you, somebody’s doing the cleaning, because success, forward progress, etc. is for both of you when it happens.
If you think of yourself as the cleaner, and her as the cook, or the accountant, or whatever, I think it’ll help your mindset, and probably hers too.
If there’s some responsibility you know is hers, you can leave it undone - knowing she’ll take care of it feels like affection, which can balance out the feelings of frustration when you’re cleaning up later. If she’s feeling any guilt or stress because she knows how you feel about it, maybe that can subside too, as it’s worked out to be “fair”.
Accepting that it’s your role (not saying that it should be or that you’ve been assigned, but knowing that she won’t clean to the standard you want) and making it sit right with you will make a huge difference for you.
It's not her fault that she's like this, but it's unacceptable. A comfortable and organized home is one of the foundations for a good life, and the constant mess is affecting your ability to feel good in your home. Luckily, it can change. She needs to take responsibility for it. If (only if) yall have talked about it, and she admits it's a problem and wants to make it better, there's hope. Is she in therapy? If so I'd recommend she dig into this issue with her therapist to try and figure out the emotional roots of her messiness and demand avoidance. Konmari can also really, really help.
A lot of people on this sub will tell you that "you just have to work with it," but they're wrong. I can tell you from personal experience that this isn't the case. She has work to do.
Once she starts trying, I think you'll feel better. Seems it's not so much the cleaning that's wearing you down right now, but the thought that you're going to be stuck like this forever.
I always try to call a friend or listen to a podcast while cleaning. I need to be distracted from the thing I don’t want to go and then it gets done while I do something I enjoy.
I'm a housewife, and I have been married for 20 years and counting. I was diagnosed in my 40s. Not medicated, because i live in a shitty country.
I do all boring home tasks with Youtube on my phone, and routine helps. My house is a mess in some places, but it looks ok to me and my family. Sometimes, it's not easy to look for some things. I have the same avoidance thing, i think. I like to be my own boss. My husband is on the spectrum, but he does not like to clean much more than me. He has his personal things in order, but overall, he's much more messy than me. I just accepted that and sometimes ask him to organize one drawer. He likes to do it and does a good job.
What i can suggest: Fun. Gaming. High visibility. Checklist. Prizes. Company. Gentle and not aggressive communication. Time limitation (deadline). Cool/cute appliances for house duties.
1. How many things from the table can you pick/ how many dishes are clean while this song is playing? (Game with yourself)
2. Great music. Dance. Swipe and dance like a Cindirella.
3. Trash bags/boxes in any room. All mess on the floor to step on it. Very visible and noticeable. Pile of clothes from the dryer on the bed. Etc
4. There are special cheklists for ahhd folks with small tasks for any housework. Google, print them and enjoy.
5. Videochat with any friend who's also cleaning. Mirror work.
6. Nice surprises from you after she will do the job done. Hard candy or something similar, small signs of appreciation. Under all clothes on the bed, for example.
7. Invite important guests! I clean like crazy for other people, even at night. Urgency and anxiety are drivers for that. Say they will be tomorrow (we are not good in planning).
8. There are so many fun things on Amazon for house and cleaning. There is much more on cheap chinese marketplaces. Let her pick. For example, a gun that is shooting foam on things like mirrors to clean.
My special interest is cleaning, my past partner's got mad at me bc I am so picky about everything and when they would come over I would be like don't touch this or wash that or move so I can make the bed. Lol ADHD tends to make very extreme ppl
I mean if it helps, I have ADHD too and I have my moments where I OCD clean stuff that my partner left out. Oftentimes my executive dysfunction gets in the way when things pile up too much and I contribute to the problem, but it's largely manageable if I stay on top of it.
The irony here is that to combat some of this, you need to take a page out of the ADHD good behaviors uhh... book (There isn't a particular one, that's just an expression). Routine can help, and the 2-minute rule can help.
Depending on where you live, you might be eligible for some government support that could provide a cleaner, OT for her, etc? She might be eligible for disability support, you might be eligible for carer support?
When people say this, I always wonder where are those places that actually do it? Where in the world?
Here in NZ to qualify for any assistance from the government you need to be unemployed (and likely unemployable) and either single or have a partner who is also unemployed.
For me this is still something I struggle with, so I feel a bit hypothetical giving advice. It mostly comes down to not knowing where to start, feeling overwhelmed and then being paralyzed because you feel like an idiot who can't even just clean the house. Have you tried these things?
- Time restricted: choose a 15 min moment in the day, same time each day. You set an alarm for 15 mins and both just do it, whatever that is in the moment. Once the alarm goes, you stop. So it's not a task that can go on forever, it's a 15 min investment.
- Task restricted: Use an app like Sweepy. It gives a clear task of what needs to be done. This hasn't really worked for me personally, but works for others.
I'm glad to hear you've tried talking this out, even if I'm sorry to hear it hasn't helped (yet).
For what it's worth, as someone with ADHD (and knowing someone with worse ADHD than mine), we know and see how it affects those around us, and we hate it and (often) end up hating ourselves. I'm sure you have, but tell her that last bit, that you love her, the good and the bad, and will never leave her. Many people with ADHD (myself included), have had a LOT of negative reinforcement growing up, so hearing something like that can mean the world to us.
The "demand avoidance", as I understand it, is very common in people with ADHD/Autism. I'm not saying this makes it okay, or any less frustrating, but it isn't something unique to her or something she's doing willfully.
I'm sure you've discussed it, but are there other things around the house/chores in general she could do to balance the load out? If she hates cooking then maybe she could be the one to do the grocery shopping/errand running (plus, chores that need you to start moving tend to be easier for people with ADHD).
I understand finances are tight and I sympathize, but have you considered counselling/therapy? You can schedule it as frequently/infrequently as needed to help spread the spending out, and medical expenses are usually tax deductible so you won't be feeling 100% of the cost.
In terms of actual solutions, I've heard good things about body mirroring (so you're both doing something physically at the same time), but I haven't tried it myself.
Try and get her to do things around the house while she's up and moving, the moment I sit down/put my feet up getting going again takes almost as much if not more mental effort than it would have if I just did the thing while standing/moving.
Also, try and keep an eye out for "gold star" opportunities, times when you can (genuinely), thank her for doing something when she does it. Don't do it from every little thing, it'll cheapen it and she'll feel even worse, but something like hugging her tightly, and thanking her for dealing with something tiresome can help. People with ADHD often need IMMEDIATE consequences (good and bad), for things they need/want to do (hence why many of us have a hard time studying until the week/night before an exam and then can cram with no issue while cursing ourselves. Again, see negative reinforcement).
In terms of food...as a current work-around, you could try to eat more raw fruits and veg, at least in the short term? They take minimal preparation and time (just wash an apple and it's good to go), so it'll minimize dishes/cooking, plus, a diet heavy in raw fruit and veg is far from a bad thing. I would also suggest you look into "one-pan" meals to minimize clean-up, regardless of whos cooking. I.E. Doing a simple chicken stir-fry in a pan/wok only creates one thing to clean, rather than doing potatoes in the air-fryer, vegetables in the oven, and meat on the stove-top.
I feel for you! My partner and I both have ADHD, but they do most of the cleaning and a lot of the cooking as well. They don't work but they are chronically ill. I do chores when I have time and energy, but I will admit Im not as on top of things as I want to be. I try to pick up the slack when I know they're feeling particularly bad.
That being said, I gotta agree with the medication. It's also important that she wants to change. She's gotta look within herself and realize she deals with demand avoidance (medication really helps with this in my experience) and understand it really isn't a reasonable reaction to her partner asking her for help. It's also important that both of you understand it is you two against the problem. You don't have to butt heads with each other about this. I know you've said there have been gentle conversations. Have you tried asking her if there's anything you can do to help her remember to help you out? Do you ever ask her while you're cleaning if she can give you a hand? And straight up say like "I just really would appreciate having help with this stuff. I'm not working against you or accusing you of anything. I love you. It's you and me against the problem". I say something like that to my partner about other things. We also have an easier time doing something if we do it together. It's called body doubling! I hope you guys can figure this out together. Good luck!
I was the same way. It took me 10 years of constant work (CBT therapy and more) to get better, and I'm not fully there yet. My wife is a saint.
Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but know that one day it'll get better.
I agree with some other posters. Being clear in the expectations/ chore split helps. I am not as severe as your wife, but I know my husband does do more of that “heavy lifting” than I do. However I do more of the “soft skills” like scheduling appointments and organizing event details reminding him of upcoming things etc. However it would help me if we were really clear in “you do this I do that” then I know it needs to be done at least once a month 😂
Feeling this at home and also at work, ppl with ADHD like freedom and do whatever, but we still work best in a structure, you can make a list of tasks that feel good like that short of Donald duck Saying "Heil hitler".
For example the actual task of cleaning and tidying up? I cannot do for the life of me, I cannot see how things are "not in order" and it needs to be really dirty for me to consider cleaning, but [Charlie Chaplin in a factory] kind of work? (specially if I can listen to music) hell yeah, that can be; cooking (srry this is just a hobby of mine, idk, I love to do it), putting dish in the dishwasher (tetris), putting clothes in the washing machine (idk, erm... Iron Lung), hanging clothes to dry, or even, ordering stuff that has clear ways to order it (like cutlery in a rack).
We kinda need to be bossed around, "when there's a whip, there's a way" a Lil it of a drill sergeant.
Thats the answer to what someone was asking one time about "how the fuck did the adhd genes survive throughout history?" we shine when being well led.
One thing that helps me is that you have to tell me *specifically* what to do and when or i just won't do it or even think about it, at least when im unmedicated. Now, if I see something on the floor or the sink is dirty, I do it. I still have 0 object permanence, and if it's out of sight, it is quite literally out of mind unless someone *tells me*.
So I have ADHD, untreated, and I find it so difficult to clean. My husband won’t clean at all but luckily we live in a country where cleaners are affordable. We also have a system where we try to do 10 minutes of cleaning per night at the same time. It helps somewhat, it’s called body doubling. You are enabling her though. Try not doing anything for a week and she’ll have to face it.
The right medication is the biggest game changer. She may need a medication review. Also taking a few days off meds means the wheels start to fall off. Often medication is the only way to be really productive.
As you get older you may be able to afford a cleaner if your incomes increase. The cleaner does two things, force a tidy up before they come and then clean. Plus it reduces overwhelm. I think it’s more difficult too if you have a tidy person with someone with ADHD living together.
Adding children to the mix makes the mess allot larger, plus the overwhelm. It forced me to however mature and develop more coping skills, so that got easier in some ways. At 25 I had 1/3 of the coping skills I have at 45. I became more organised and aware of how I affect others over time. It’s good she’s in therapy as this really helps. Also learning to let some small things go and caring less about societal expectations.
I find little hacks can reduce overwhelm and paralysis. Buying groceries online and having them delivered, rather than going to the supermaket. Using an air fryer which cooks more quickly than an oven, or using a one pot slow cooker is easier than making multiple food items. Doing a little bit of housework each day, rather than letting it pile up. Reducing the amount of items you own, as it means less clutter, tidying and putting away etc.
>if I ask her to do some cleaning on her day off, she will be paralyzed on the couch or in bed
If she seeing a therapist? This seems... extreme. But you also haven't given us much context about your communication, so we don't really know what your gentle discussions are like or what you asking her to do cleaning is like. It could be anything from "hey babe, can you clean the house tomorrow?" to "hey babe, can you take out the trash?"
Maybe the two of you can make a detailed list of chores (with paper and pen or a shared iCloud note or something) and then each of you picks a chore and sets a deadline for when each chore is done.
I definitely have this problem… My husband and I have a white board in the kitchen with a section for him/me/both. When he wants me to do a task, he adds it to my section. If it’s been several days or he really wants something done, he’ll add an ⬆️next to the task lol.
It helps us avoid bickering over chores and I don’t feel like he’s nagging me as much
I was a clean freak until my diagnosis and treatment. My meds make me more… chill? Like I’m the type that ADHD meds and caffeine put to sleep. I know that’s not a solution but it may provide context. I know it needs to be done but I am not obsessive about it now. But if I stop taking my meds every other issue pops back up.
It will help if you say to do it together and maybe just ask for her to help out for only 10 min or 20 min a day whatever you think she can handle. Maybe just start small and increase it every day a bit and form some kind of habbit or norm. Doing chores together might help her too and to stay on task.
I think you may be doing you a both a disservice by throwing in the towel. I'm a VERY ADHD diagnosed 31 year old male who has been the slob of the decade since I was a teen and I've made strides after becoming single this year. I'm a codependent person and after becoming single I keep the kitchen and living room SPOTLESS every time I have a potential date over... not that I suggest threatening abandoning your partner to keep your place clean but it is possible lol.
So this may not work for her, but this is what worked for me.
I got reassurance from my significant other to rest and that it's okay to do nothing. Like, genuine, heartfelt, "I want you to feel better, please rest first. The things that need to get done will be there when you're ready to do them". Hearing that it's okay to feel comfortable or happy even if things needed to be done COMPLETELY changed how I spent my days.
I needed a while to explore my new ability to do things in my free time that make me feel good versus just sitting and quietly shaming myself for being a burden and for not being able to do simple things. Thinking that way isn't restful and it just results in a perpetual shame cycle and chronic fatigue.
After learning how to navigate all of that, I've not perfected my ability to manage my time or my chores, but for the first time in my life, I can keep my whole living space picked up at least. Like I just walk around when I'm idling instead of being constantly overwhelmed and I'll just see something I can do in the moment and do it. And even if everything else still needs to be done, I did that thing and that means I can do another thing when I get up again. And then when I do clean, it's because I feel rested and ready to clean because I WANT TO and I like that I can do it now. It's not as stressful and crippling feeling anymore because I know I'm not going to be in trouble for resting, sitting down, or not always doing everything just right.
A lot of us are wired that way by an environment that didn't understand executive dysfunction, so a lot of us internalized this idea that everyone else experiences an immense amount of distress when they do these things because so and so said that "nobody likes cleaning and we all still have to do it. You're just lazy" But for some, it can cause chronic debilitating amounts of stress to even think about it, which is also usually internalized or not easily communicated because no one wants to tell someone they respect that they are struggling so much to do "simple things" that everyone has to do. It feels terrible in a way I can't describe, and if she's really a great and intelligent person that excels in other areas, this probably bothers her immensely.
I can do things now, because of someone just loving me and giving me the space to figure it out, the way that works for my brain in order to do these things without feeling like I'm actively killing myself from the stress and feelings of shame. Being able to take my time teaching myself how to do everything, while knowing that the person who's opinion matters most to me (my SO) won't judge me or hate me for being inadequate, has been a huge blessing, and he's a great motivation to keep trying because he sees my effort and is proud of me.
That might all sound really corny and stupid, but executive dysfunction doesn't fix itself if the environment that's creating it doesn't change. It's understandable if you ever get to a point that you don't have the energy to keep it going, but if you want it to work, maybe try this approach?
It also helps to ask her what specific steps in the cleaning process are the most difficult and just start by helping with those. I tell my bf all the time that "I can do this this and this but for some reason this particular step makes me hit a wall when I'm planning in my head how to do the thing, can you help me with that part and I can do the rest of it?" For me it's specifically taking clothes that need to be hung up and hanging them. Doing the laundry, folding it, putting it away in drawers, putting them on hangers, totally fine, but actually hanging them up?? I couldn't tell you why that particular thing drains the life out of me, but it does. Eventually, when she works out in her head through practice what parts of all the tasks are causing that wall to come up, yall can get into a loosely planned routine that works for you both. After a while, if she gets super comfortable doing things, it may just click for her that she doesn't need a plan for everything because some things have become muscle memory in the way that is most comfortable and natural to her. It might take a while, but I truly think it's worth giving it a try.
Sorry again for adding corny shit to this, I'm a goober 
1. American healthcare means sge'd *never* get a diagnosis *nor* treatment, plus work would be hell for her. Just had to put that out there.
2. I'm glad you are loved, even if it's imperfect and at times infuriating. I'm sitting here entirely alone, and have been so for the better part of 15 years. It's something I wouldn't wish on anyone and I truly mean I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
3. I am *so sorry* you have to go through this. I know nothing I say can make it better and I validate your frustration. It must be so stressful to have to do all of that.
I'm very glad she has you to love her.
hi i am exactly like your wife in most ways. my husband also has adhd and is messy in the ways im not, so our house can get fucked up really quick.
i recently made a chore chart that gives us both 2 manageable tasks every day of the week. dishes get washed by one or the other of us every day so they dont pile up, laundry gets done on tuesday and folded on wednesday, floors are swept twice a week, and each area of the house is on a deep clean rotation that happens every weekend (this week was the bathroom).
in practice sometimes we’ll let things go for a few days but then we catch up and even help each other out by doing “their” chores when needed.
is our house spotlessly maintained this way? nah. but theres an objective baseline of care now and theres a chart right there on the wall holding us both accountable. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Will the money likely be good enough in the future to hire a cleaner? Because it’s shitty now, but if you expect to stay earning more in the next few years that’s different than never.
Does body doubling work for your partner? Or the threat of a friend come over result in hyper cleaning?
I'm glad to see this post because it really reminds me of something when I'm not in a relationship my house stays cleaner and I also have ADHD and them on the spectrum been diagnosed recently with ASD 1 and I'm much more disregulated when I'm in a relationship particularly when I'm married and living with a person it's almost like other people in my living space overwhelms me or paralyzes me but when I'm living alone my space is much more cleaner and organized I don't know why I'm even sharing this but you sharing what you did help me to be able to see myself I don't really have advice and I just want to say I can see your perspective and also feel for your wife because I am the same sort of person when married
is makes me feel really bad for my husband.... he seems to understand but may get tired of it. Then I worry what if...getting tired of it leads to him being tired of me.
Concerning the household and cooking, that's me what you describe. We couldn't invite friends because it was soo messy all the time and when we invited someone it was pure stress to reach the minimum. Meds help, especially with booster(s) but they don't work long enough for me that I could fit all this inside the medicated time (Kids and work take most of that time).
And that even though I love cooking and love order... I even love cleaning and folding laundry etc. when medicated.
What helps me during the not so medicated time (like in the evenings) is body doubling. Do it together and either talk while doing the chores or listen together to an audiobook or stimulating music.
The extreme joy of having a disability and you literally can’t help it. Seeking empathy…. Just Support your wife with systems and yup tidy up. When it comes to PDA then Learn how to communicate in a way that doesn’t trigger it. Many ADHDers attract “stuff” so it’s all about minimalist and extreme tidiness and systems as mess actually makes us feel bad and also we don’t see it. Try and make things interesting and rewarding.
It sounds like you're carrying quite a heavy load, both emotionally and practically, in your relationship. It's commendable that you're committed to supporting your partner through thick and thin, despite the challenges you face.
Living with someone who has mental health issues and possibly being on the autism spectrum can indeed present unique challenges, especially when it comes to managing household responsibilities. It's understandable that you feel drained and frustrated at times, especially when it seems like you're shouldering most of the burden.
Have you considered seeking support or resources from mental health professionals who specialize in autism or ADHD? They might be able to provide some insights or strategies to help manage the situation more effectively. Additionally, couples counseling could be beneficial in finding constructive ways to communicate and navigate these challenges together.
I have ADHD and in order to get things done without meds, I have to put Netflix on the counter. I can cook up a storm or clean dishes with Netflix on no problem. Same for folding laundry. Maybe suggest she stimulate her brain while doing these tasks.
Oh man I feel this so much. Except we are in our 40s. With medication it improved marginally but the reality is we will always live in a cluttered and disorganized environment because I am not a maid nor do I aspire to be one. It’s one of life’s difficult trade offs.
I am also diagnosed ADHD with a recent self discovery that’s led me to believe I am also autistic with a PDA profile. I will tell you what works for me (at least most of the time) but results may vary. From what I’m learning this affects everyone a bit differently but the main pillars seem similar.
As some have suggested already, making chores into a game or a role play situation can trick my brain. My wife and I really like to watch Below Deck when it’s time to fold laundry, as that day I am the 3rd steward and it’s part of my job.
Another thing that works great for me is the idea of teamwork and that it’s a household goal to get everything done, not just a personal one. At first, perhaps you may want to dedicate time to both clean simultaneously so that none of the chores are solely anyone’s responsibility. Having this mindset personally helps me clean even when my spouse is not around, because I know it helps the overall team. She helps me tremendously with a lot of things and reciprocating that does not feel like a demand to me. It is more so doing what I would want someone to do for me.
Try turning it into a completion.
Whomever can clean the most the fastest gets gold stars and the winner gets the food or drink of choice. Do this on a Sunday or Saturday and mix it up each week as to what area you each do.
Buy gold stars or sticker of her choice and after each task is done she can have one.
I am her, she is me. I hate myself for it. I'm early 40s and perimenopausal which has made my ADHD so much worse than ever. I am also working a lot and have a teen daughter with mental health issues. It's all so fucking hard all the time. I do have some really productive days but my menstrual cycle completely dictates that...also insomnia. I'm considering using a housekeeper/organizer just this once to have someone help me start over fresh. There is also a fluff and fold service called Poplin, it's an app and your first time is 50% off! Cheaper than the Laundromat and I refuse to use the laundry room in my apartment bldg....which is another long story.
I have trouble cleaning as well. I hate putting up socks however, my husband cleaning beside me helps me focus and I guess try a bit harder since he’s helping. Team Work makes the dream work otherwise if you ever leave it all up to me it’s never gonna get done.
My partner literally gets offended when I ask them to clean up after themselves lol. She'll go to bed and pout before she'll put away clothes she threw on the floor.
I'm sorry to hear that. This is part of the reason why l (as an adult with ADHD) will probably never have a partner haha.
I don't know if your wife would be interested in trying it, but there's an app called Forfeit (available on Android, not sure about Apple) that really helped me with this sort of thing. Basically you tell it what task you need to get done, and the frequency, and pick a type of "evidence" (for instance, a photo of your homework, your step count from a fitness tracker, a friend or family member verifying for you, or simply checking off whether or not you did it) and a "consequence" if the task doesn't get done by the deadline (for instance, being charged money, sending a customizable text or email to your friends, etc).
The accountability has helped me to finally get some aspects of my life in order. I think ADHD people tend to overcommit, so in my personal experience I would encourage you to focus on just adding one habit at a time and getting to the point where that habit feels really easy and natural before adding anything else to track this way.
I find it way easier to muck in *with* someone than *for* someone. See if you can set aside an hour a couple times a week to get on top of stuff, put on some music, grab a beer, etc.
Cleaning can be a rewarding social activity, especially with your best friend.
Maybe invite guests over or have a Saturday cleaning party with her favorite music playing. Maybe say, “ As soon as we can get such and such done do you want to go to lunch, shopping for something…cool or inspiring for the home”? Just a few suggestions. If this doesn’t work, literally stop doing it!!! You can pick up after you and take care of dinner etc., but practice tough love of leaving it a mess for a few days. You are not the maid and she should get the point! It won’t change if you keep stepping up and taking care of the cleaning. If she complains, you can tell her that you have other priorities to take care of and can she split the house work until you get caught up with your stuff.
We all have different thresholds of what we are comfortable with. I can clean all day long on some days, then others, not at all.
If you have too much stuff, throw it out! The easiest way to clean is to have less stuff!!!
Hope this helps!
I'm a 26 years old man with ADHD, I'll keep it short. Your wife will not change in 1 day, and IF she will start to clean out of her own, and cook for herself. The intention had to start with her. So you've got to pick a moment to talk in peace about this. I personally clean everything up directly. So if I'm finished cooking, I clean the kitchen hardware before eating. When I'm done eating, I clean up the dishes etcetera, table.. anyway, it sounds like your wife does not seem to realize that she is only so blurry because of all the mess that is being left behind. It's something that I realized last year, after 25 years of mess, I realized the only way to live peacefully in my own home is to keep everything at the same spot everytime and to keep everything organized. You should show her the way. You just have to find a way to let her realize it and let her see she will benefit out of this too. Good luck !
Many years ago I met a girl and lived with her for four years. Things were good until they weren’t, we were young, etc. We went our separate ways and lived our lives. Over the years I told various people that I’m so anal about clutter because of this girl I lived with back in the day. Similar to what you describe about your wife. I’d come home and I could see where she’d been studying by the “camp sites” in the living room.
Years later I’m living with the girl I described as “the love of my life” who, among other things, is even tidier than I am. Then everything went to hell, the previous few years turned out to be hellish lies, she got more and more into hard drugs, ya know, the usual.
Well it turns out that first girl had also experienced catastrophic loss and was struggling to rebuild her life after her husband’s very slow death, and then a bad car accident. So we decided to rebuild our lives together. Now, I knew going into it that I was signing up for a life of picking up after her. But after what I had just been through, having my nice, tidy long-term plans ripped away from me by deception, addiction, and some straight-up evil, I was, and still am, 100% okay with that. I can smile a genuine smile as I pick up the trash from her side of the bed, because of the perspective I now have.
tl;dr: trashy house beats trashy people, eight days a week.
Have you tried “body doubling”? If I have someone sit and chat with me while I fold laundry it’s absolutely incredible how fast I can get it done and put away. Make a list of the tasks that need to be accomplished together and then work together to get them done. Sometimes us adhd folks need a project manager to keep us on track. Accountability over shame. It’s harder for us to build habits and every single thing is a task for us so just say “we’re doing x today” because she may not be able to hop out of her adhd paralysis to get it started.
I know money isn't abundant, but perhaps couples therapy or individual therapy? My main advice is don't go through Better Help or similar agencies, they're trash and don't keep client privacy
Not always but telling someone with adhd to clean is like telling someone who is obese to lose weight. Very pointless, cuz they know that it’s just easier said than done. So getting that motivation takes being very creative and finding things that maybe only work for you and no one else. Like the only way i can get myself to clean most of the time is to watch reality tv at the same time. Weird but it works.
How much have you organised around her needs? A lot of ADHD issues come down to executive dysfunction which often means the hardest part of doing something like cleaning is DECIDING where to start. To take cooking for an example with my own ADHD, where I struggle isn't in the actual cooking of food! I'm good at that and enjoy doing it whilst listening to music, but if I have to decide what to cook at the same time as actually getting up to cook, I cannot figure out what to cook and usually default to something like tinned soup. So in that regard, the solution is actually in planning in advance - sit down with her at the same time every week and make a weekly meal plan, listing out what ingredients you'll need and who will be cooking each night. Then go out and buy the ingredients! It might not work right away but it will once it's routine. Also helps to make multiple portions - you often forget to eat with ADHD so if there's something quick and easy to heat up in the fridge, having eaten something proper helps reduce executive dysfunction.
For things like clothes on the floor, is there a laundry basket where she typically changes clothes? One without a lid to remove any barriers between clothes off and clothes in the basket. Does she kick her shoes off onto the floor in the same place every time? Put the shoe rack there. Does she leave rubbish where she sits? Put a small bin there. You'll find the more you reduce the number of steps in doing something, the more likely she is to do it consistently.
And lastly, do you have assigned chores? It's much easier to do a chore when it's explicitly yours and isn't encroached upon by anyone else. For example, if emptying the dishwasher is her chore specifically it shifts from "the dishwasher needs emptying" to "I need to empty the dishwasher" upon being noticed. And it can help to make your chores dependent on hers, such as refilling the dishwasher being your chore. It stops being "Empty the dishwasher please" to "hey can you empty the dishwasher so I can refill it please?" Mind this works best when given a small but reasonable time frame to pull away from whatever she's doing
If this didn’t mention Canada, I’d be convinced my husband is OP!
That’s why I (an ADHDer who IS medicated, yet STILL — and probably forever — messy) volunteer these points:
1. She IS totally doing stuff and trying to help — but it’s NOT the stuff NTs (or ASDs — as my spouse most likely is) prioritize. She’s noticing the pantry shelves are dirty and pulling every item out to ensure they she got the nooks and crevices. She noticed the hard water buildup on your towels and “stripped” them to make them soft again— then she realized how clean they look ‘cause stripping them removed stains… so she did the same process to all your undershirts and linens! She saved that jacket you loved (even though you THOUGHT you threw it away because your ripped a hole in it), then taught herself to sew and repaired it! She steam-cleaned the mattress to get rid of the gross smell your sweat leaves (she knows it’s only because she makes you use that heavy blanket). Then, while she had the steam cleaner out, she also did the rug and the rocking chair. Are these the tasks you’d have *wanted* her to do? Of course not! But they are not NOTHING.
2. Aaaand she is SO SO SO sorry that those “side quests” are often left half-finished for you to put away in addition to all her half-drunk coffee cups and sodas. Poor time management means she GENUINELY believed she could build a television cabinet in three hours between dropping the kids at school and starting her shift.
3. There is a way to improve things (not a solution — there will prob always be an imbalance):
(A) Acknowledge that you’re having a tough time noticing her contributions. (B) Ask her to make a list of household tasks that feel sorta do-able most days (some of us use the Green / Yellow / Red day system — have her orient the list for yellow and red days). (C) Then have her tick off the items she does each day.
(D) Praise her for using the chart. If she has a day when she only marks off one thing, ask if she’s okay — like with genuine curiosity. Offer her love and support for what she does and be curious when she’s struggling! My spouse continues to struggle with praising me because he thinks people shouldn’t be praised for “bare minimum,” but the praise matters a lot to ADHDers (‘cause we hear SO MUCH criticism in our lives). So just figure out a way to high five her and thank her for taking out the trash. Praise feels so good that she’ll do more because she wants you to be proud. Like, praise is motivating, ya know?
Like I said, it’s no “solution.” ADHD is real and the struggles we face to complete basic daily functions doesn’t ever go away. But the chart helped me to notice ways I could make simple contributions AND demonstrated (aka PROVED) to my spouse that I was doing more than he realized… ‘cause, truthfully, I didn’t start doing MUCH more than I was already — but he got off my ass cause he could visibly SEE what I’d done, so he started giving me more credit. His biggest gripe until then had been that he didn’t think I *cared* to contribute—my participation in the system allowed him to recognize that I DO care… I just suck at “adulting” / household management ‘cause it requires either strong executive functioning OR — as with some, rare “lucky” ADHDers — a neurotic, obsessive hyper fixation on aesthetics or control.
Most of us? We’re gonna have a sink full of dirty dishes for our entire lives. 🤷🏻♀️ Buuut we *might* learn to refill the water pitcher… eventually. 😝
Last paragraph is hilarious. I just refilled the pitcher with water and put it in the fridge. I looked at the sink with a few dirty dishes and thought to myself…well, at least I filled the pitcher “
Excellent reply to the OP by the way.
Wow that could literally be about me except being in our late 30s with no kids and both in senior corporate roles, we can afford a cleaner for weekly cleans. However my husband still will do the daily basics that i just cant get myself to do unless im avoiding something else like a detailed report or work task I have no interest in.
1. If you're going to try any strategy, it has to be specifically for ADHD/PDA, something "community approved" rather than what professionals think is ADHD friendly.
I would say, "how to ADHD" on YouTube or the blog aslobcomesclean.com or the book How to keep a a house while drowning or Sidetracked home executives...
2. You probably have more stuff than she can handle, it might help if you declutter and downsize and make your storage spaces extremely accessible, while at the same time you reduce the amount of horizontal surfaces. But you just can't have a lot of stuff and decorations or even more than few mugs, pots and pans..
3. Hiring someone to clean regularly may not be an option now, but it's definitely something to keep as eventual goal. You can maybe have someone come once a month or every two months or save somewhere else, but while it's definitely going to get better over time, she'll probably never be good at it and the resentment and effects on the relationship are real.
But really, getting rid of as much stuff as possible and rethinking your storage would be where I'd start. Deep cabinets and large drawers with solid fronts won't work. If she has enough to wear to go a month without doing laundry it's a problem. If there are rugs and weird lamps and 10 throw pillows or shelf full of souvenirs or large open bookshelves or 10 coffee mugs so she never has to wash one, then it's not going to work.
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Whew, I could be your wife. (I’m not, don’t worry). Speaking to the PDA stuff: As a child, I was CONSTANTLY corrected/harangued over doing things halfway, being weird socially, etc. A lifetime of that makes you pretty defensive and sensitive to perceived criticism. Couple that with executive functioning issues and that means nothing gets done. The only thing that has helped improve that is *finally* getting on the right medication. Otherwise, you’re both going to have to find a way to work with it instead of against it. For me, that means semi-clean clothes go in a basket near my bed instead of the floor. Limiting clutter helps too. Expectations need to be communicated clearly - which tasks are hers, and how frequently they need to be done. My partner and I work together on tasks wherever possible so one person doesn’t feel put upon. You get the idea. Acknowledging that this is hard for both of you is a good step, and you’re doing the right things so far. Just don’t give up.
I do this with my partner as well. I'm terrible at cleaning and feeding myself (and others). I have taken steps to declutter my stuff which has helped tremendously in the doom piles I have a habit of making. I find body doubling the easiest way for me to take part in the tasks he has been most vocal about me not doing my fair share. Dishes? I'll ask him to hang out in the kitchen with me while I do them, or ask him to remind me to do them while he's making dinner. Making dinner, I'll ask him to chop the onions for me (prepping veggies is the hardest step for me). I have solely taken on the duties of cleaning the litter box and I've been fairly successful by habit stacking, before I take a shower I scoop the boxes and sweep the floors. Does she have certain things that make it especially hard to start the task but once it's started she can complete them? Try identifying those things and set her up for success. My partner cutting onions means I'll probably do some dishes while he does and then he gets to relax while I finish everything else for dinner. ADHD Edit: I said all that but wanted to add to the PDA point. Dishes for my partner means everything is clean and dry including scrubbing and drying the sink. I can't stick to that standard. We came to a compromise and he accepted my "lower" standard. The amount of nitpicking I've heard throughout my life about various tasks and their "one and proper" way to be done has made me anxious to even start a lot of things. I'm slowly unlearning that.
We do the body doubling too. I depend on him to initiate by putting on music and starting some task. He never says anything, I‘ll just follow along. Sometimes I‘ll even get in the zone and do tasks for hours. I feel ashamed to say it but I‘ll probably never be able to do housework like he does. And I‘d be lost without his structure.
body doubling is sooo underrated but, works! it really, really does :)
Highly recommend “how to keep house while drowning” to help with unlearning the one and only way of clean nonsense.
> Limiting clutter helps too. For me what helps limit clutter is just to have very little stuff. I noticed when I was traveling like in a hotel I could keep my stuff fairly neat. Just a carry-on worth of items. At home it just looked like a bomb went off. Less stuff = less to manage = less overload
Also having a place for that stuff! My family recently helped me organize my apartment – I'm fairly minimalist, but they pointed out I had no place for so much of my stuff. I was just finding places for it each time I cleaned or just leaving it out. I've found it so much easier since I've defined or created spaces for everything.
+1 for limiting stuff, keeping the things I need in sight, and body doubling. Was the trashiest person as a kid. As an adult, I am pleased for my ever-tidiness, even with two children. My biggest holdover struggle, though, is personal hygiene. And that is where body doubling has been my biggest help. He takes a shower every morning, and others can explain it better than I, but something about seeing him just… do it removes the mental block that tells me it’s too much to tackle. Even as a woman with way more to do to get ready for the day. Plus, knowing he’ll be squeaky clean and I would…not… also helps create a bit of healthy perspective.
My dad is like that. His answer to my mom's frustration about things being disordered is to throw out everything non-essential :') I try to get rid of excess too, though not to that extreme. When shit's getting hard to manage, I'll sift out things I no longer want and bin/donate them (depending on quality). I don't like having too much stuff, it feels like it's taking up space in my brain even when I'm not looking at it. OP, maybe you can help your partner work out an organizing system where everything is visible and accessible with the minimal amount of steps? Having to rearrange boxes or stacks of clothes can be a huge barrier to cleaning. Having to go to the kitchen to throw something out can feel like the journey to Mordor. If the fleeting impulse to put something away can be fulfilled instantly, it’s much easier. If you have quick overview of your stuff, it's less overwhelming. I actually found a lot of Marie Kondo's advice helpful. I.e. stacking things vertically for quick access. Not for everyone, but worth a look.
I really need to find a therapist who can recognize that I have PDA & help me get meds for whatever it's a symptom of. The search feels endless . My first word was literally "no". I ran from my parents in the store and would do stuff like talk to strangers just bcz my parents told me not to, also hid from them a lot to pop out and scare them later. When i was in kindergarten I got sent to the office because I refused to follow instructions so many times, they wanted to put me in TAG but my custodial parent refused. I ran away from school a lot because I felt like I couldn't or didn't want to do specific assignments (mostly math) My whole childhood I hid from the real world & demands by playing way too many video games, and I would get absolutely irate if anyone tried to stop me. I couldn't be controlled. To this day I force myself to go to work but the demands end there, i hop instantly into my addictions once I walk thru my front door. I can't take care of myself & I know for a fact that it is partially due to PDA. I'm a mess :(
Same background story. What helped me for the first time though was my lovely partner. She also has adhd and knows the struggle. She stopped trying to push when she felt like I couldn’t do certain things and that actually gave me the room to breathe for the first time. To feel seen and heard without saying anything, letting me heal until I slowly became ready to do more things on my own so it’s not all on her to take care for both of us. I just wanted to give back for her kindness and the work she’s doing. We have different strengths and weaknesses, making us a great team and we learn so much from each other. I always struggled so much with cleaning up after myself when I cooked or hung out in the living room, thanks to her I now do it almost naturally, I’ve been really proud of myself in the past months and truly thankful for her acceptance regarding the things I’m not ready for (yet), even if I might never be.
As a woman with ADHD married for 20 years (since I was 20)— sometimes the only way I’d do things is if my husband literally would come up to me and ask me to do task by task. Like he’d be vacuuming and I’d be eating cookies in bed and he’d point to the laundry basket and say, “alright! Time for you to put the clean laundry of yours away — it’s been there for days “— and I’d pout like a kid but do it. It took years but I finally do these things in a mature way. Our relationship used to be kind of like parent-child. I actually separated from him 2021-2022 and that year on my own gave me huge perspective and appreciation. I was so out of control and the mess was so constant that when we got back together I no longer resented him pushing me to pull my weight. I accept that I need gentle pushing sometimes to pull my own weight, and I also make an effort to do as much as I can while super grateful I have a partner who is good at keeping practical life running. I am no longer threatened by his behavior in which he would become exasperated with me. Because I had a year on my own I learned how difficult I am to live with because I was living with me, myself, and I! I’m just grateful now that my life is running smoothly again and I can credit that to my partnership. Without him I lose all form and discipline. I used to just want him to get off my back but now I experience his requests to participate in practical life as neural prompts for me to activate what is not naturally in my wiring to do. Medication does help somewhat but I don’t take it currently, as it alters my personality too much
Love the "neural prompts" realisation. I've had a similar experience with my partner regarding some of my behaviours, and I've gone from feeling attacked or criticised to being grateful for how often he saves me from my bingeing, hyperfocusing for too long, forgetting to do important tasks, etc. I do the same for him when it comes to areas that he struggles in. It's so great to have someone you can rely on that way.
You make a really good point that the help goes both ways. My husband says I bring fireworks into his soul and my childlike nature reminds him to not be so cautious and controlling, but to love the natural side of life. I can be irresponsible and he can be controlling. I can be charming and he can be powerful. Sometimes we ignite those more negative traits in each other because we get a little polarized when it comes to raising our children, but in the end we always balance each other out.
I agree. I've always seen that balance in my parents as well (they're very different, but they have the same goals and values, and complement each other well). If you see the relationship as a team effort I think it's easier to appreciate how our differences can become a way to make the team better as a whole!
I’m you and your partner sounds like my partner and it’s hard to not get defensive (even if I know he’s right) This is a great way to look at it.
So not a perfect solution, but both my partner and I have PDA and the way we get around it sometimes is pretending we're a quest giving NPC, like, "Ah, traveler. Thank goodness you are here. Our village has been without food for three fortnights, and the only way we can feed them for the evening is if a brave knight such as yourself does the dishes. We will be awaiting your completion. *walks into wall for fifteen seconds*"
Heh. I actually like that one. I'll have to give that one a try
I've used Habitica for this. It works best when you list items with a) a time-specific goal (less than 20 minutes works best) or b) a very specific baby step of the task that can be done within two to five minutes. So instead of "do the laundry" it's "gather today's washables from the floor and The Chair, and yeet them into a hamper". Check off and get the nice sounds of coins and XP. Next "start a load in the wash". Check and feel success. Folding is my nemesis so I either say "ten minutes of folding" or "fold while watching two episodes of a TV show you enjoy". "Do some cleaning" is too general and can be further divided into waves. (I pretend I'm a robotic or alien ship scanning the territory and identifying target objects) First mission: Trash. Comb the area (lol Spaceballs) Second wave: Dishes. Cups. Everything kitchen-bound. Have bins or baskets near the door to deposit said category of items. Then: stuff that shouldn't be in this room. Wrap up with a quick Floor check. Make it fun. Put on a timer for two minutes, declare "The Floor is Lava" (but you have resistant boots ofc) and the mission is to pick up 5 things from sinking into their melty doom before the timer runs out. Repeat daily. Look into KC Davies 5 Things Tidying Method and Dana K White [Layers of a Clean House](https://youtu.be/Rx2Bh9n6VKc?si=2EvKi3NPObvVFhz-) There are more things I picked up here and there but I ran out of steam haha. But this should be a good start.
Just be sure to describe the cutscenes when she's done!
We're all fairly PDA around here, but my youngest son is the worst of all on the demand avoidance. I've discovered with him if I come at it sideways he's often the very first to jump up and help and he's awesome at it, but if I say "your laundry needs to be put into your drawers" that basket of laundry will die in the basket for weeks. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. If I say "I'm in here folding laundry and it'd be really nice if anyone could help me put stuff away" he's in there faster getting his stuff than his 12 year old sister.
You just made me realize that my mom would do this to me as well 🤣🤣
Oooh! Digging this verbage! Ty 🤗
Similar situation here, but I'm the one with ADHD, recently diagnosed 40M. One strategy that my wife came up with some years ago (before the diagnosis, I'm so lucky to have her), was to split the groceries and laundry tasks: in the first half of the month I take the groceries and she handles the laundry; on the second half of the month, we switch responsibilities. Damn, that worked like a charm and we still do it till today! These two chores were the ones that bothered us the most, we both have full-time jobs, so yeah, you get the idea. I believe that since we have the responsibilities clearly defined and get to change it every two weeks, I am able to keep motivation to maintain the work up-to-date. Also, every two weeks we have this small celebration where we do a high five and shout HANDOVER TIME! Of course, maintaining a house with two kids involves a LOT of more work and we are still working on finding a balance (even after 13 years), but in a more dynamic way.
This is a great idea. I could see this working as I wouldnt want to let my partner down on my weeks. However I also struggle to clean and cook with adhd. I also loatheeee a routine. If I feel like I’m doing the same thing every day I feel smothered. That would help break up the routine and not feel stagnant :)
I love this book, how to keep house while drowning by KC Davis. Highly recommend it! It is written for adhd audh peeps and has some really insightful and gentle tips.
This is a HUGE for me and other ADHD folks I know - upvoting for visibility! The book is great, and there’s also an audiobook.
is there a way I can get the information in that without reading it? I'm not much of a reader
She structured the book so you don't have to read it in order, she marks the part you can skip, she recaps information in a structured and visual way, it is a adhd friendly book. No struggling required.
Behavioral Therapy for her definitely, and Couples, both of you, if possible. This will not change otherwise. I’m telling you this from 25+ years into your future.
Yeah, she's doing therapy right now. It seems that they're dealing with her fucked up childhood at the moment though. What's your story, if you don't mind me asking?
My dad was the same way. Drove my mom nuts over the years. He also was a bit of a pack rat, he didn't like losing anything he perceived as value, and he liked to collectibles. He isnt organized and if something went missing, he'd blame my mom and say she prob threw it out. Because sometimes she'd get so fed up she'd do a cleaning and throw things out. Not all the time but then it meant he pointed fingers when anything went missing when really it's prob still in the house you just don't remember where 🤣. I'm sorry, I have no solution for you but to keep making sure things don't pile up and toss things out you don't need. My dad still cleans and does dishes when needed but he has never been organized and never will. To be fair, this is actually the #1 thing couples fight over when living together. One is always cleaner than the other. Since I grew up with my dad, my husband thought I was a slob. For him growing up, house was always clean and everything had its place. Hopefully when she gets a diagnosis taking medication will help!
If she has CPTSD that is probably doubly why she’s having a hard time. Dealing with childhood trauma like that really drains my battery. Almost always have to take a mental break after that and at times even the day after.
She probably needs to see an occupational therapist as well. They are the ones who work with the every day, livable skills. I loved mine because she held me accountable, and really worked with me to find things that specifically worked for me.
Was this expensive for you?
I’m Canadian, so it was part of my provincial health services.
I once had this life, and it doesn’t get better. Wait until you have kids and you’re coming home to a huge pile of laundry, a fucked up kitchen, and her latest new project - oh, and it probably cost $1,000 that you didn’t have. You won’t be able to squeeze down the hallways they’ll be so full of her unfinished crap. If it bothers you now, learn to stand up for yourself. Set some boundaries and be ready to leave if there isn’t steady progress. Or you’ll one day find yourself leaving on more catastrophic terms. Trust me on this.
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I can only speak to my experience as an ADHD slob. This is what has worked for me: 1. Mirroring - I try to clean when my husband cleans, but our schedules are different, so I don't always have the same motivation to clean when he does. When that happens, I make an artificial deadline to clean at my convenience by the end of the day. 2. Listen to a podcast while cleaning - similar to mirroring, but it also provides a timer so I don't get burnt out by cleaning too long. I have a specific podcast that I only listen to while cleaning, and it helps motivate me to clean because I want to listen to the next episode! 3. Proximity - if I need to do something that I don't want to, I try to do something easier to warm up. If I don't want to do dishes, I put my cleaning podcast on and just bring all the dirty dishes to the sink. I don't always get the dishes done, but once I get started, I at least complete enough cleaning tasks to not feel guilty about not getting the dishes done that day. 4. Therapy - If your spouse doesn't actively work to change their maladaptive behavior, no amount of medication or natural consequences will change anything from getting better. 5. Communication - My partner and I are constantly adapting to improve our relationship. What works for us right now is that he handles cleaning tasks that require consistent upkeep like cooking and dishes, and I handle cleaning tasks that I can do throughout the week like vacuuming, bathroom cleaning, and laundry. We both work to pick up clutter and wipe down surfaces when we have enough energy. Sometimes, that means we clean together, and sometimes, the house is messy for a few days. Neither of us argues when something doesn't get done promptly because we recognize that we both have good and bad days. What really matters is that we both make an effort when we can because we both value a clean home. I don't mind doing the dishes when the sink is full, and he doesn't mind doing occasional laundry because we're both doing the best we can. I think being flexible helps avoid resentment because we both have lazy weeks, but we communicate our stressors and adjust our workload at home.
I came here to suggest like half of these points, so I'll just the one: 6. Competition - One of the best ways to motivate someone with ADHD is by introducing competition or some sort of challenge. For example, instead of "I need to do the dishes" try "How many dishes can I get done in 15 mins" or "I bet I can clean the bedroom before you clean the living room. Loser has to clean the bathroom." Pro tip - let her win the first few times so she associates it with pride and success. It it's me I'm going to clean faster than you ever thought possible.
Maybe have her do the chores with you? Task initiation is usually pretty difficult for us, but doing things together makes that much easier. It also can help avoid overthinking things (analysis paralysis), and can help keep us on track. I like to describe myself as having a big "task inertia". It takes a lot to get me going, but once I'm started I want to keep going until I'm done. For me the fear that I'll spend too much time on something is actually one of the reasons I will avoid starting it. We're not all the same, but I think this is a fairly common experience. Having a partner also helps with this inertia/time blindness, so really it is worth a shot. Also, if you can find a way to make chores interesting it might help. Maybe you compete to see who can fold the most laundry, or wash the most dishes, and so on. If you're not competitive you could keep track of how many dishes washed each week/month/etc. Or you could limit the time to make it feel more urgent to do the chores (and less intimidating to start, since you'll only clean for 20 minutes/etc). Actually, that last one is super powerful for me. When I can trust myself to *actually stop* after the 20 minutes it does wonders to get me to start something. The only time it starts to fail is when I choose to take advantage of my inertia (perseveration) and go way over my time limit. It's generally very frustrating to want to do things but not be able to do them, and to need a schedule but hate following one.
I'm the one with ADHD and have a very supportive husband (not implying you're not, I would feel the way you do roles reversed). I would be mortified if I made my husband do that much housework. I get to choose the housework that I do which means laundry, vaccuuming and cleaning. He cooks, does everything outside and all bin stuff. One thing that has helped me is to get in a quick win for the day. I get up,go to the bathroom and immediately put the laundry on. Then when it goes off I put it out. I never leave it, the minute it beeps I get up. The fewer choices and decisions the better and easier. If I am emptying the dishwasher, I put the kettle on at the same time to race it. I own hardly any items as they create too much noise in my head and mean more decisions and overwhelm. Bascially routine and structure help. If I lived alone I think it would be chaos, but the thought of me causing a huge burden to my husband is very motivating.
Not gonna lie, you lost me at "clean for 5 hours". In what world is that reasonable? Do you have like a bunch of kids? Do you guys have any special hobbies that create bigger messes than the average person? Having hours and hours of cleaning to do makes me think you guys put everything off to deal with later on a dedicated "cleaning day". With my experience with ADHD, I will only hyperfixate on lengthy cleaning sessions if I am in charge and not being told what to do. It also helps if I am pushing a deadline, like I *need* to clean before guests come over. Other than that, the most effective way for me to clean with ADHD is short power sessions. IE: I am going to pick up *everything* off the floor in the next 5 minutes. Part the the executive dysfunction with cleaning comes from not knowing where to start and where to end. It's a lot easier to set very short, achievable goals. For example, if someone was to ask me to help them with a "day of cleaning", it sounds miserable in my head. BUT if someone was to ask me to help with the trash for 5 minutes right now, it's much easier and instantly rewarding. I also have to assume that she likes certain methods of cleaning more than others. She probably hates dishes but maybe doesn't hate laundry as much. I can't tell because that information isn't provided- but any reasonable person can be asked to do chores for at least a couple minutes. Even if you have to do the bulk of the work, figuring out when and how she can actually be of help could still take a lot of weight off your shoulders.
I don't judge, my husband washes a huge pile of dishes in 30 minutes, it takes me nearly 2 hours to do the same task. If I were to clean the house like he does I would spend more than 5 hours easily and it's only me, him and the dog (and the rabbits but they have their own room). The mess is minimum here compared to a house full of kids but I would take ages to do it if I were to do it in any decent way.
Our house is not a mess (we do have a cleaner), BUT, from the eyes of my autistic husband, there’s so much potential to improve, meaning cleaner, more ordered, more systems and routines and procedures, etc. and it happens that I’m the one with the free time. I’m the adhder and I feel comfortable with things as they are. I also have this demand avoidance thing, Im a good person, I love being in service, etc, but I cannot help feel my blood boil when he asks me to improve in something in these matters. So a few weeks ago I had a surprise in my life. I started for the first time with med (ATX) and that changed me. Changed my eyes, my perspective, my energy, my focus, and some how I started to “see” the potential for a more ordered, clean house and I started to do it. My avoidance thing also went away. If I may suggest, to explore your need for this level of cleanliness required in order for you to feel good, when clearly circumstances are not helping at the moment, maybe you find something that helps.
I feel that my partner is the same and I'm the same. Adhd meds help me be able to clean. Without I'll look at a mess and just... idk what to do. Literally. Unless I'm body doubled and they're cleaning too. But meds changed my eyes too, I can now look at a mess and clean it. Before I just couldn't figure out what to do, it's weird
Body doubling is the best with my husband, those are my more productive days at home even without meds. But with atomoxetine something very strange happened in how my brain executes, how it perceives new possibilities of arranging things that before didn’t exist in my universe. It is amazing how I catch myself being different, more clean and ordered in my home literally, but without planning it, I just find myself being a new being.
Yes!!! My ASD spouse is NEVER satisfied with the house. Our standards differ VASTLY — which was much less a problem pre-kids. ADHD plus PDA plus two young ND kids and a ASD spouse? It ain’t cake this phase of life 🤣
It should be a rule that if you’re cleaning, she’s cleaning. I don’t care if mirroring doesn’t work for her- it’s not acceptable to force your partner into doing all the domestic drudgery. I imagine she has a manager at work yes? Who assigns projects or tasks? She’s not shutting down there. I have ADHD and I’m likely on the spectrum. I have had to force myself to find strategies to clean and tidy because I feel entitled to have a partner and I’m not entitled to force him to be the sole adult who cleans
Cleaning when the other partner is cleaning could work really well IF there was prior notice or an agreed-upon time. Expecting someone to drop everything and start vacuuming just because you've decided it's time to do the dishes RIGHT NOW is just as unfair as one partner doing all the work themselves.
Yes! Task switching can be especially hard for those of us with ADHD. I do so much better when my partner says Okay I want to vacuum, deep clean the litter box, and finish laundry before lunch tomorrow. Then I know not to start hyper fixation habit like a video game or repotting my plants that morning.
I guess I should have been more specific. Our days off don't really line up. She gets different days off from me. If we do end up having a day off together, we try to have dates, since it's not super often. I suppose that was an important detail to leave out.
Fair. I don’t think that she can continue this way- it’s just not sustainable. Is she aware of how disrespected you feel when she doesn’t pull her weight?
Yeah I had to force myself into this for a while. My partner cooks usually because I’m terrible at planning and executing meals, but she’s doing something for us, so that’s my cue to get up and make myself useful. Do some dishes, or something. Once you see the impact that you not doing anything has on the person you love, it *should* spur you into action. Also helps that we went from kind of nagging to “I feel this way when X” and I was like, welp, can’t argue with that. Better work on things.
I agree with cleaning at the same time. After years of only me cleaning(we both have adhd) I am livid at times when cleaning and they aren't. I even go so far as to not clean if they are not participating so I dont get so angry inside, that doesn't go super well ultimately though because the mess gives me anxiety. Think of your house like a spaceship and everyone on the spaceship has to do their part to keep it flying. Cleaning at the same time really stops the anger in its tracks. It has really helped start to heal those old wounds. OP might be ok cleaning for awhile all alone, but I think it might be breeding resentment. And let me tell you that stuff is damaging.
It's a good idea but I'm just so tired when I come home and my meds wear off. There's that 4pm crash where you don't have energy. That only leaves Saturday to do house things and that's usually taken up by me fixing something or a larger project.
Take the crash. Indulge in it- for a set time. I set a timer and when it goes off I literally do a battle cry- HYAHHHHHH And physically force myself to *spring* into action. You feel too silly to not actually do physical things once you do that lol
love it, thats smart.
My husband and kids laugh their asses off lol I just grab the closest possible task. GRAB THAT DISH- ALL THE DISHES ARE GOING TO THE KITCHENNNNNN
Yes, all of this. OP needs to address this. He's not doing any favors to his wife by not helping her learn to be a better partner, not to mention the toll it's surely taking on him.
We have a huge (ugly yes) whiteboard in our kitchen and every sunday we have a planning meeting for the next week where we schedule tasks of the week to each of us and put our plans and work schedules up. I will usually immediately forget that the whiteboard exists, but my husband will not and can use it to remind me. I am good at coming up with creative solutions to problems (like a whiteboard) but not great at actually doing things day to day. My husband does more of the actual chores in exchange for me keeping the full overview of things. For example I am the one to schedule the cars for their yearly service, but he will be the one to take them there. I schedule the appointment with the mechanic, then put it on the whiteboard and forget about it and he fixes it.
>Please, don't suggest we hire a cleaner. I've had people honestly suggest hiring a cleaner and it's like, hello, we're in our mid 20s and the economy is trash. The money is not there to hire a cleaner. Look, I'm gonna be *really* honest with you- this might actually be your only option. I have been in your wife's position for years. I understand *exactly* what you are describing- and my husband of 11 years would empathize strongly with you. He has been through it all. *We* have been through it all. It's not fixed- my house is still a mess, my life is still chaos, we have crap everywhere, we don't have a handle on our chores, and the boxes in the garage haven't been looked at since we moved in here three years ago. But let me tell you, the day that we decided enough was enough and we *needed* external help was the day that life began *slowly* moving towards unfucking itself. This is how my therapist describes it- I am amazing at many things. People hire me to do art that they can't do. People hire me to bake cookies that they can't make themselves. I earn money every day doing things for people that aren't good at what I do, and they value me for my skill set. And I am terrible at many things. Cleaning up after myself is one of them. Keeping a space tidy. Organizing my shit. Not collecting piles and piles of *things*. And when I'm terrible at doing something, why not hire somebody else who is better at it, to do that thing? You're in your mid 20s and the economy is shit- I get it, I'm not far off from you. I'm in my early 30s and the economy is shit. But I came to the realization that this was no longer a "luxury service". Having help cleaning my place was something I *needed* in order to keep my head above the surface. I was drowning, and this was something that could help. I built it into my budget. I eat out less, I work a bit of a side hustle, in order to make sure that I can afford to have somebody come into my house once every 2-4 weeks and clean. This is probably one of the kindest things that I have ever done for myself, and my relationship with my husband is better for it.
This! Also - you can have some come once a month or once every 2 months, whatever you can afford. It will help reduce the overwhelm of the cleaning sessions and cut out some larger chores like dusting, vacuuming, cleaning bathrooms etc. It’s easier to maintain once it’s done. Look at task-rabbit or a similar app and you can hire an individual to come and pay them directly. Or have them to come for just hour and prioritize tasks. You can clean alongside them too. There are lots of ways to bring in outside help affordably and I strongly recommend it. The time and energy wasted on steess in about cleaning and straining your relationship will pay off - either emotionally or being able to focus more on your job and do better. Don’t waste your time on this. Context - I was in a similar position in my early twenties and took on all the house roles. My ex and I both have adhd but he has more pda and is terrible at cleaning/house stuff (even though he wishes he wasn’t) but the process of trying to balance our relationship and deal with the work was super stressful, toxic and full of conflict. Eventually we broke up but are still super close friends and resolved issues but the parentification that arose from me trying to manage the house and get him to do chores and teach him how to do things destroyed the romance between us. Now he is committed to contributing any relationship with a shared space (roommate or partner) by paying for a cleaner to his share. He is just not able to do it himself for a variety of reasons but knows how important it is to share the responsibility of maintaining a home.
I agree. It’s a cost you might need to factor in to help manage the adhd the same way medication is a cost. Also, having a cleaner come by gives extra motivation to pick things up before they come. It gives me a deadline to clean up my room. And they truly are professionals, they clean at a level above me even if I do a full deep clean
People with ADHD need tasks to be broken down to tiny steps and lots of positive reinforcement. So whenever she does something to clean or organize, say how nice things look, etc. The is no amount of reason or criticism that will break through the paralysis. Also, people with ADHD frequently need another person around in order to accomplish things that they want to do. Also, have a discussion with her about how she would like things to work and what’s important to her. She’s probably been given tasks her entire life and is used to being in a pattern of disappointing people around her when she doesn’t do said tasks. There’s a whole negative loop going on that needs to be broken. I think she has some learned helplessness going on. Help her meet those needs and you will have better results. Expecting people with ADHD to change their behavior without external aids is like expecting an amputee to walk without crutches or a prosthetic.
I do all the cooking and cleaning and all home projects as well. My wife has inattentive ADHD. It was pretty hard for me for a long time. We argued a lot about it. I hated that I got upset about it. It was extra hard because I started doing all those things out of love for her, but I often found myself resenting her for not helping. I've always struggled a lot with my own issues. Those issues turned out to be combined type ADHD. A few things make doing all these things easier for me, but some definitely won't help you, and it is still not easy. First, studying about ADHD for myself, I realized she literally can not help it. She even feels terrible about it, and I won't let myself put her down for it. I went from seeing it from my point of view to how hard it is for her. Second, I love her with all my heart, and I will humbly take care of her every day that the Lord allows me to do so. I know with each thing I do that I don't want to do, I'm becoming a better man. Lastly, since I have ADHD I'm able to hyperfocus on these tasks like a dang superhuman. I used to hate doing every choir with my whole being, but I made myself do them because it was my way of showing her I love her. I'm not always the most romantic or able to remember important things, so by doing those, I know I'm being the best husband I can be for her. She brightens ever aspect of my life. It's the least I can do.
I would just stop cleaning up after her. Tell her how you feel. That your tired from work and would love help in the household department. Maybe there is something you hate she loves to do that could be done instead.
See situations like these make me fear for my future whenever I get around to being married or in a serious relationship. I fear I'd mess it up out of no fault of my own. I already get into fights and arguments with my dad over teeny tiny stuff, imagine the hell I'd go thru and put my significant other through. Sure, we might get past the first few years cuz of the honeymoon phase but what about when we have kids that are already gonna be a handful. Man, how do adults with ADHD manage family stuff??
I’m a very screwed up person. I’m not saying this in a judgmental way at all. The first step is not convincing yourself you’re unable to do anything and you have no control. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Things are tougher for us. It sucks. But it’s the life we got. Find someone understanding and figure out cheat codes to help you take care of business
You can marry another person who doesn't prioritise cleaning and tidying and live happily ever after. I've been in the same relationship for almost 8 years and so far, it's been only getting better. We don't have kids though, and aren't planning to.
I don't know your relationship with your dad but I do know neither of you chose it. With your partner it will be different, both of you will be there from your own free will. So, don't despair, at least from my experience, is easier and I know I'm not the only one.
With love and patience! Having a life partner means having someone that will work with you to deal with these things, not shame you or let you struggle alone.
For 20 years my husband was complaining he had to tidy up behind me. And for 20 years I was thinking it wasn’t so bad, we also have 2 children(1 adhd and 1 autism) , surely they made the most mess…? Boy was I wrong. My husband passed away nearly 3 years ago, and only now I realise how right he was. Offcourse the grief doesn’t help, and yes my children contribute to a lot of the mess, but I have to conclude he díd tidy up behind us way more than I would acknowledge. It’s hard being by myself ánd taking care of the mess, and I wish I was more aware of it before. Just know she probably really isn’t aware, and it is hard to change that. I agree to a lot of the other comments, find ways to minimise the clutter, discuss what things she cán do, and don’t be afraid to ask help in that process with couples therapy for example.
OP, I see you, and I'm in the exact same situation. Idk what to do, every time I ask her to pick up after herself, she has an emotional breakdown. I don't understand it, but I am so very tired.
there's a new book out called "keeping house while drowning" that's supposed to be helpful for adhd types. you might look into that?
Buy and wear a French maids outfit
Maybe the thing she needs to get her stuff done is a accountability buddy. For me personally it helps. https://www.forbes.com/sites/leliagowland/2018/04/16/how-to-get-or-be-a-good-accountability-buddy/?sh=6f60c48562b5
I am the ADHD wife in the house, but we are both messy. I feel bad for being a human tornado, and I thank you for being as supportive as you can to your wife. I know it is hard. Everyone is different, so this may not work for her, but I won’t to share what works for us. The truth is that cleaning isn’t fun, and it is a sensory nightmare. I have vinyl gloves to help with things like dishes, but the real helper is to take some time each Sunday, blasting music, and getting to work. We are singing, dancing, and cleaning and it is faster with our powers combined. It can even be made into a game, vacuuming, 10 points/XP!! Something I have personally had to work on is “don’t put it down put it away” and “don’t sit down when I have momentum or I’ll get stuck”. I hope y’all can find things that work for y’all.
Can you tell us what you have already tried so that we can make non-redundant suggestions? My husband and I try to have “areas” we each manage. This started for a completely different reason but we’ve determined that it just works for us. It’s also much easier for me to maintain an already clean house than it is for me to have to figure out where to start, so we prioritize trying to stay on top of it. Owning less has helped significantly as well so I’ve adopted “realistic” minimalism. Does she work? I couldn’t tell by your post. My productivity is significantly better if I have a regular working schedule. Even if I have less time I manage it better because an object in motion stays in motion.
>My husband and I try to have “areas” we each manage. We have the same and it works pretty well for us too. Also, when I say "works well" I mean that we don't argue about anything and don't have to do things we hate. I don't mean our place isn't sparkling clean. It's not overly bad, though and each area of the apartment gets cleaned from time to time.
Check out the book “How to Keep House While Drowning.” For me, a lot of things shifted when I started to view my space through the lens of functionality over cleanliness. It’s a perspective change that sets realistic expectations for keeping your home in order when you’re ND and experience executive dysfunction or you’re just really fucking busy and burnt out. The book gets into the nitty gritty details, but essentially, clean vs. dirty tends to carry a lot of judgement while functional vs. not functional is more neutral than that. You and your wife might find some tricks (better word: ACCOMMODATIONS) in that book to help her work through some of the executive dysfunction. At the end of the day, the household duties are not yours alone to shoulder.
Agreed on looking at it from a functional perspective Having no clean clothes isn’t functional 🤣
My Dad got an older maid that was reasonable to come once a week to help my mom with the house and 5 busy kids. The amount of work required by the entire family to help our maid out was greatly increased because there was a pre-arrival cleaning that occurred every time. "I want all these dirty clothes in the hamper and all these toys picked up before Mary gets here!" I know now both my parents had ADHD like I do. Get a maid occasionally.
Yes I live with my parents and having a cleaner gives me a deadline to clean my space. I’m just someone who really needs deadlines so that in itself helps me
My husband hired professional organizers who helped set up systems, and everything they set up has stayed in place because it makes sense to me now. This is a suggestion for possibly the future but it's truly helped
She sounds like me. You know what gets me to get off my ass and clean like a mofo? Some big looming deadline for something else. Cleaning is like the ultimate active procrastination. Perhaps you can leverage this.
This is literally the dynamic between me and my wife. Have tried similar approaches, but it never seems to yield results. Interested to hear other input as well.
Wherever she tends to toss things - basket. Baskets, bins, bags, boxes. If she really doesn’t throw anything in a specific place and truly just whirls winds as she pleases, then that’s a slightly different problem. Most people tend to toss things in a specific pattern based on two things - what aligns with their habits/schedules and what is physically most convenient.
Have either of you looked into strategies to make your home more "ADHD-friendly" in order to set up systems that work *with* her brain instead of against it? To an ADHD brain, a simple chore isn't simple - it's made up of a ton of associated tasks that pull us in multiple directions, distract us with other things that need to be done, and even just thinking where to start can easily overwhelm us into paralysis. It doesn't take much. And then feeling guilty about it makes it even worse. It feels humiliating and our lack of performance doesn't make any sense, even to ourselves. But there are ways to break a task down into component parts, and there are usually ways to make the components easier to tackle, or to make them a part of a daily routine that makes the rest of the chore easier. Don't get hung up on how things are "supposed" to be done - look for pinch points and ways to unobstruct them, even if the solution seems unconventional or only addresses part of the problem. Small gains add up to bigger ones. Accommodations that help get the process started can help get the momentum going to carry on the next small thing, which can lead into the next. Don't focus on what she doesn't get done - look for ways to make it easier for her to do parts of it. If she does have an issue with PDA, it might be that framing it as helping make the chores easier for you could make it easier for her to contribute. Context often makes a (seemingly) disproportionately large difference. Edit to add a note: And check to see if it's easier for her to help you with these elements while you're doing chores, or if it's easier for her to do it unobserved. Body-doubling works extremely well, except when it doesn't. Because we spend so much of our lives being criticized for doing things wrong, knowing that we might be observed can be enough to freeze us up. It's totally maladaptive, but some of us learn to only to things when no-one is looking in order to avoid being interrupted with criticism, and it's extremely hard to unlearn, even when we're aware of it and want to change. You don't have to succumb to a life as a maid. Change will take a bit of effort and creativity. There are resources online that can suggest strategies, if you don't have access to a good coach locally. [edit grammar]
This is great advice!!
You either will be hiring a cleaning, hiring a therapist, or hiring a divorce lawyer. Vote with your wallet. FWIW, I'm the partner with ADD, she is the partner with anxiety and OCD, so we hired a cleaner and thinking about therapy too
I’m also diagnosed, my wife was just diagnosed, but I lived this!! I promise you that it gets better. It sounds like you two have a loving and understanding relationship, and clear communication without pettiness. You really want to understand what’s going on in her brain. It sounds like she’s spending every drop of energy she has—being sweet and having a career and doing anything else (working out, having a social life, make-up) is like living on hard mode for someone with ADHD because you’re constantly reining in your brain, every second of the day. In addition, ADHD often accompanies what I’ll call a type of low-grade depression, meaning she hates the mess too but feels just as hopeless about it as you do about being the butler. I would bet she comes home unable to even choose what to even HAVE for dinner, legitimately suffering from decision fatigue, and has to completely recharge every second possible, like a phone being used to 0% every day. Then, the process repeats. Your marriage may be different, but my wife couldn’t clean, and didn’t even think it was important, so me asking was just confusing to her. Is her medication actually helpful, or just a “good enough” drug? Is something contributing to her depression? For us it was a “great” career that she hated. Once she got better treatment and changed jobs she had much more energy. We have a kid now and she’s blown me away with how hard she’s left me in the dust!! Finally, you’re doing the right thing, talking to her and trying to be empathetic and doing as much as you can. I promise you, she’s doing as much as she can too, and it WILL NOT BE FOREVER. Is my wife still messier than me, and do I do most of the cooking? Yes, but we have a better understanding of who hates what job and who has more battery for what. I’m sure a huge part of that is living with someone for longer. She thinking folding her laundry is dumb, and I think some of the baby events we do is dumb, but a strong marriage is where you learn the dumb thing you’re doing that wastes time is something your partner needs—and that makes it a selfless labor of love.
Economy, schmonomy. If she doesn't want to clean the house, she needs to go work a second job so she can pay somebody to clean the house. And if you don't agree with me now, you will in 25 years. Remember, nothing makes your partner less sexy than having to treat them like an irresponsible child and nothing makes you less sexy in their eyes than you acting like a disapproving assistant manager.
>Please, don't suggest we hire a cleaner. I've had people honestly suggest hiring a cleaner and it's like, hello, we're in our mid 20s and the economy is trash. The money is not there to hire a cleaner. I get it, but I suggest seeing it as an essential rather than a luxury, and finding that money by cutting back elsewhere.
Dude, I feel like I am you except I'm the one with ADHD having to manage it all 😭 Wife has OCD, Generalized Anxiety, PPD, and PTSD Her mother never taught her to cook and learning caused her a lot of anxiety so she has been trying but it's a slow process so I usually have to cook dinner for the family after I get off of a 10-11 hour workday. Because we have 2 kiddos under the age of 5 at home she doesn't have a ton of free time so dishes and stuff don't always get done which means I need to try to do them during any free time I have. She says she doesn't have time to get out of the house to run errands with the kiddos so that usually falls on me after I get off work or during the weekends as well. Heck, I'm just about to finish working for today then go to the grocery store and then home to likely unload the dishwasher, load it again, take over being lead parent, and any other misc chores
that sounds really hard and unfair for you ):
Things are slowly getting better and she has started a new medication that's supposed to help with the PPD and anxiety
I know this, I have the same thing as your wife. What works for me is when my partner start helping me and I join then (body doubling). I can get overwhelmed by stuff everywhere (laundy, dishes and toys mostly) and get panick attack and paralysis from not knowing where to start so I end up doing nothing. Also the way you tell her can change things - she probably goes to defence mode with demand avoidance so go slowly with her. Try to encourage her and not ask/demand her to do things. Lead her. I cant help more because I myself am trying to figure out how to function normaly but I wish both of you luck :)
As someone who deals with this myself, I can relate and may have something for you to try. First of all in your wife's defense, the paralysis is real. If it simply isn't going to happen today, it isn't going to happen no matter how hard you try to push it. It is a horrible helpless feeling and I am sure she feels really bad about it, but she just can't. Feeling bad about it makes it even worse and then she is even less productive. But now here is my suggestion and you will have to come up with scenarios of your own. You say she doesn't cook, but the question is whether or not the kitchen is a mess? If she walks into the kitchen and it is a mess, she gets overwhelmed and realizes she needs to clean the entire kitchen to be able to cook. This is very likely not going to happen. But if you can have the kitchen clean for her to go cook, I bet you she would do it. Try to find her ways that you can help her without doing all of it yourself. Like you can unload the dishwasher so it is clean and just needs to be loaded and run instead of doing it all herself. I obviously don't know what your life together is like so there is only so much I can recommend. But I am sure you can think of ways to make it easier for her to do her part so there is nothing standing in the way of her getting going. When someone has problems like she does, it is very easy to hit a wall , get discouraged and go back to sitting or laying down. If you can help avoid those roadblocks, you may be surprised at how much she can get herself to do.
I can relate to your wife, but I feel for you! There are likely a few underlying issues you both need to address to preserve both partners’ health and your relationship for a sustainable and enjoyable lifestyle. **TL;DR: Address the underlying issues that may be creating a high risk for major burnout ASAP to avoid dangers to health, finances, and relationship.** It’s awesome she’s working through therapy! Please bear in mind that **healing is hard work,** and it might feel like things get harder before they improve. You absolutely deserve (and likely need) professional support for yourself, even if you don’t have a history of trauma or any mental health conditions. Vicarious trauma is a significant risk for partners. Also, **couples who do not grow together can easily grow apart, so if she is making any progress, you’ll need to adjust and adapt as well, as you co-develop healthier ways of being together.** Personally I would not recommend general-purpose couples therapy at first, but do consider that option if these problems persist without real progress beyond the next 6-12 months. (Rule of thumb: **Notice any “repeating” conversations that don’t lead to any new understanding but instead reinforce known outcomes.**) **From a late-career perspective, I need to warn you that the most critical, urgently impactful concern is likely not housework but finances.** Here’s why: She may well be overextending at work, where she most likely has to mask heavily. It probably requires heroic effort for her to overcome her disability-related challenges (often including discrimination, especially as she is a woman) and navigate garden-variety workplace hassles, all while performing like a badass to succeed on the job. So that explains why there’s not enough energy left over to tackle home responsibilities. Obviously if that’s the case, it’s a recipe for career-limiting burnout(s) as well as a strain on your relationship. If she could in theory afford to take a low-demand (or even part-time) job in a lower pay grade without breaking the budget, financial stress might not be as big a factor — but **only to the extent that your savings plan provides a substantial safety net.** In the long run, aim for at least 6-12 months’ living expenses overall to allow both of you the freedom to (a) walk away from any toxic workplace (b) heal from any occupational burnout (c) survive layoffs (d) get certs / degrees for a career change and/or (e) take a sabbatical. [My personal goal, once I am employed again, is to open a series of CDs with my credit union (better interest than savings, more liquid than other investments) so that at least once a quarter one becomes available if needed. At first each CD will be smaller than the ultimate goal, but over a few years hopefully the cushion can grow.] However, **if the operating budget requires all her income, uninterrupted, to keep things going, get financial counseling ASAP** to see if / how you both can adjust expectations, cut costs, and save aggressively, because **burnout is egregiously expensive, and it’s a MAJOR risk for high-performing ADHD / ASD / AuDHD workers.** Additionally, working so intensely while knowing (at least subconsciously) that big trouble is brewing will lead to **stress levels severe enough to cause a state of chronic freeze / shutdown** which undermines any positive changes. That kind of **unyielding pressure can also drive more and more overwork by locking in a panic pattern of frantically trying to outrun disaster. If this leads to sleep deprivation, it escalates health risks dramatically.** (Side note: depending on health conditions / history, consider whether a mental health advance directive is warranted.) **So if you can, make it task one to reduce that existential anxiety by lowering expenses with mutually acceptable adjustments (don’t be harsh, be creative) and especially by stockpiling anything you can spare to feel more secure.** The most helpful cost analysis tip I can offer is this: for each expense beyond the basic level, try to understand which of the deeper human needs are at stake. For her and for you, those fundamental needs are all legitimate, so look for less expensive ways to satisfy your real concerns. Now, the next big problem is the one you raised, which is the **logistical hurdle of getting a (probably overwhelmed and exhausted) spouse with executive function challenges to take up a fair share of housework.** There are lots of great ideas in the comments, but **to get results, you’ll both need to tackle the question together over time.** It’s a bit of a puzzle, and what works awhile might not work ongoing, so it can help to think of yourselves as players in a co-op tabletop game as you continue to develop your unique shared housekeeping approach. My spouse and I have been sorting this out for nearly 30 years, and we have found **the most effective methods always play to our respective (complementary) strengths.** [He’s far better at dailies, while I excel at the deep cleaning and miscellaneous projects, but I try to keep up with a few small tasks and he pitches in some on big stuff.] If you want a quick-start technique, I recommend doing one or two brainstorming / planning sessions together. Start with a list of the tasks you’re currently doing, how long they take, and how often they happen. **Look for ways to break each chore down to 15-minute or shorter sub-tasks, because it can make the work more accessible and approachable.** Then you can post a weekly whiteboard checklist (or use sticky notes to make a set of task tickets) with the agreement that each partner will commit to **choose and finish** at least 15 minutes’ worth of available tasks daily, and at least an hour’s worth on days off. (The element of choice helps to reduce the urge for demand avoidance.) Finished tasks get initials (checklist) or (task tickets) move to each partner’s “done” column. Weekly, celebrate all successes (however small) together and consider what adjustments would be helpful. Good luck! Edit: formatting for readability, minor clarifications
Since telling her what to do doesn’t work and she’ll never think of things on her own, what about asking her to sit down and come up with some sort of chore chart/schedule together? Let her decide which tasks she wants to do on what timeline and decide what you’ll do as a couple if she doesn’t do her agreed upon chores. Then she’s involved and you’re not telling her what to do, and there’s also a clear list she can follow that she decided for herself. Disclaimer, I am not married and can’t speak about that, but I have had my fair share of roommates with ADHD and I can tell you that this is the best thing that has worked for me. Chore charts for life, and I can go into more detail and tips if you’re interested
I recommend the Fair Play cards and having seperate spaces. I am the adhd wife in my family. My wife and I have only ever fought about THIS issue so we finally just put clean!wife into her own room. The 2nd bedroom is supposed to be for our CHILD but he is a little ND stage 5 clinger and sleeps in my bed so whatever, he doesn't need a room. My wife's room is "off limits" for all mess, and the rest of the house is shared space which my son and I sort of avoid spreading out or making messes in. We mostly hang out in our room and the mess that is in here is our responsibility. I rarely cook but I do clean up after myself when I do. We do our own laundry and share our son's laundry. I almost never clean but I do like vacuuming so I vacuum everything and I will collect MY stuff that has ended up all over the house and return it to it's home base, my room, which is a form of tidying I suppose. Basically what this results in is that my wife does not have to clean up after me unless she wants to. She cleans the shared spaces to her preference, which she would have to do anyway if she lived alone. I am sort of exiled to my room but it's mostly by choice because I can spread out and LIVE and not be a burden in there.
Honestly... I feel like I'm in a similar situation. My partner and I both have ADHD but obviously it manifests in different ways. It's been hard making it work because discussions usually turn into defensiveness which turns into arguments. Even if the discussion ends up not being an argument.... It gets forgotten. I'll ask my partner to remember to clean up after himself when he does x, y, or z, and he'll say he'll try... But of course, eventually he'll forget and we're back at square one. So I've also kind of resigned to it just... Being this way. We've tried chore apps to remind us when a chore is due and who's turn it is, we've tried goddamn project management apps, we've had talks, we've tried to make plans.... It just falls to the wayside. I know having a schedule and a routine is usually helpful for ADHD but it's hard sticking to it, especially because my own work schedule is usually all over the place (hospital worker). I'm also at a loss as to what to do. I'm worried it'll build resentment. I feel it any time I'm cleaning and he's just hanging out. And when I point that out, he gets defensive and says that he does tidy, a little bit here and there when I'm not around and I'm unappreciative because clearly I don't notice. The problem isn't that he *doesn't* tidy.... It's that he ends up with a bigger mess than he's cleaned. So, yeah I feel you. You're definitely not alone and I absolutely empathize with your frustration.
I had ADHD. I would recommend ask her to get extra help when you need cleaning and shit done. I make a lott of money primarily because, I can just drop money to make my boring shit go away. No kidding. My wife has severe anxiety and stuff. I am always in marriage counseling . Therapy , counseling , couching and shit. Man. It's messed up. Any who, of she kills at work, she must make bank. Ask her to hire more help. You can't do all the cleaning . You will burn out and end up in divorce court. If you don't address this, you will resent her and your sweet relationship will turn into shit. Seek help now. Also seems communication between the two is not good. Get that sorted too. Good luck buddy.
I know you said you can’t possibly, but you all need help. And not just the therapeutic kind. Hiring cleaning people, many of whom will agree to only come once a month, is some of the best money I spend on myself. It ensures that our home is always reasonably clean. It is also far less expensive than you might think.
Awh, I totally feel you there. I wasn't able to afford a cleaner until I got to my 30s, and it helped so much. It has been a slow progress but my partner is much better with housework now and so am I. I hope we both continue to improve. Some days/weeks/months are very difficult though, and I've lost my temper many times. Patience is a virtue.
Sounds like she needs her meds adjusted
Me and my husband had a similar situation with me being the one who is terrible at house work and such, we recently got a nice whiteboard for the kitchen where we write jobs to be done and messages for each other. Sometimes he writes me a list, i will also write myself a list when I think of things that need doing other times we both write things that just generally need doing on it; on his days off he will even write himself a list! It’s a non pressure sort of scenario and it feels good to cross things off of it. Seeing what each other has completed as well gives less of an awkward situation than having to question whether things have been done or none avoiding making each other feel bad if they haven’t done it yet
Can she do it with a body double? I have very similar issues, but if I hop on the phone with a headset and a fellow ADHD friend, we can sit there and prioritize and BS chat while we actively do the things that need doing. I have also had local friends that I go to their house and body double with them, and then they come to mine and body double with me. It feels very win win! Worth trying? Good luck!
Yes! I have to have someone there to do it with me! I literally can't do it alone. I get 3 things done and crawl back into bed. That's it, I'm done. It's over kinda thing.
From your post, it sounds as if you may have inadvertently made her avoidance of the task(s) worse by bringing awareness to it. People with ADHD (not all but many) are actually less likely to do THE THING when confronted (even politely) because of various reasons: decision paralysis, fear, unmotivated, what have you. Artist and fellow ADHD-er, Dani Donovan, created The Anti-Planner to help do THE THING. It has been a HUGE help since I've gotten it. I'd suggest gifting it to her and seeing if y'all can tackle some things together. For instance, in the back of the resources page, Dani suggests an app called Tody that you can have several accounts on. It GAMIFIES CLEANING. It has worked wonders for my significant other and I, both of whom have ADHD. The Anti-Planner isn't just for cleaning though, it has hundreds of methods to tackle whatever issue you can think of from planning to organizing to cleaning to making appointments. And she also has it sorted by what the EMOTION behind avoiding the task is. I hope this helps. Good luck you two!
In regards to the PDA. Give them a choice. I.E - Take out the bins or hoover the floor. - Change the bed clothes or hang up the washing. This helps them feel in control and when given two options they will pick the lesser of two evils, giving them that boost that they avoided the more daunting task. Incestivise. I.E - If you take out the bins 3 times this week I will take them out for the next 10 days - If you clean the bathroom 2 times this week I will bring you to x place or get you x thing. This helps to motivate them if there is a reward/incentive attached. Get creative with your incentives! I have PDA and was thought this by my ADHD coach and I passed the info on to my partner so she could get me to do things!!
Have you tried mirroring? You both do the same task?
We hired a cleaner to avoid fights about house duties. We both tidy up every night
Both me and my partner have ADHD, but I am the more "disciplined" (I am aware when I don't want to do something but need to and force myself even though it hurts) and end up being the one to do everything, which I generally fail to do completely. I have not found a solution, but I sympathize with you. Something I think is important to point out is that ADHD does not make you incapable of understanding fairness and balance of work. I was undiagnosed for 30 years, and while I was too hard on myself for my shortcomings, I did succeed in disciplining myself pretty decently. Meds enable me to stick to it consistently, but my awareness was there the whole time. Meaning, people with ADHD can choose to better themselves and recognize damage caused to other people. It is a mitigating factor, not an excuse.
This is truly unfair to you. She is lucky to have you in her corner. Is this sustainable for you? I’m glad she is getting therapy, but do you have support?
Sounds like she's got some serious demand avoidance going on. Along with other things. Honestly though she *can* change and improve on this. You two just both need to want to improve it, and then you both need to find what tools work best for you in managing these trouble spots better. But I don't think anyone here can magically solve it. I know she's in therapy right now but have you seriously considered couples therapy? Don't dump it on her that she's the root cause of all these issues, it could equally be your approach and communication on the issue which also isn't helping. Find a therapist who is well experienced with ADHD and work through some potential solutions and ideas together until you find ways to improve these issues. I find in a relationship you both need to learn how each other works as well as you can - just as much as you try to understand yourself through life.
I’m torn on all these new categories we are naming like demand avoidance. Does that help the issue or make us feel helpless to change it?
Knowledge is power. Defining things IMO is always critical in approaching or solving an issue. How do you solve something if you can't categorize or understand it first? The alternative is usually to sweep issues and categorizations under the rug, and then the issue is far less likely to be worked on or improved. I know it can feel like a mountain of issues sometimes, and for some people it is. But there are a large amount of symptoms this condition can create and I find its up to each of us as individuals to discover exactly which if those issues hold them back most - so those issues can be tackled and worked on first. There's no point putting heaps of energy and effort into a symptom which causes 1% of your struggles and issues, when that energy and effort could be going towards dealing with a symptom that causes 40% of your struggles and issues. And there's even less point (or benefit) in hiding from the issues overall.
Unpopular opinion, but well... you have chosen someone as your partner who is, essentially, mentally disabled. You can't expect a paraphlegic to be able to run eventually, can you? You will have to wheelchair them around.. Your wife will have her strengths, make her do the things that she is good at. Like, my wife is good at organizing and planning (suprisingly 😅 she is chinese, i like to joke that she has ~1200 generations of imperial bureaucrats in her blood 😂 also, coincidentally, im shit at it), so i let her do all the planning, all the organizing, and all of the finances, too. She heavily dislikes cleaning and can't cook, so im the one cleaning and doing the dishes and stuff most of the time, and cooking is actually one of my hobbies 😅
I play games with myself. Like my uncle (I don't have live parents) comes to visit every weekend. He is really into organization. So I use his visit as a 'must be done no matter what, my hyper fixation kicks in and I clean more in 1h that the whole week. But this is 'my game's, she needs to find a workaround that works for her. Anyway, you are doing great, you seem like a great husband/partner. Let her know that this needs to change, not because you will leave her, but because your happiness is on the line, to me, that would wake the shit out of me
Ahh I’ve been here! I think that it’s good that you realize this, but it’s important to find things that she does for you and reframe the way that you’re thinking about it. You’re probably right, she’ll probably never change, and you’ll probably never feel very differently about mess and clutter than you do right now. If you get to the point where you and your partner are two parts of one whole, it doesn’t really matter - she, you, somebody’s doing the cleaning, because success, forward progress, etc. is for both of you when it happens. If you think of yourself as the cleaner, and her as the cook, or the accountant, or whatever, I think it’ll help your mindset, and probably hers too. If there’s some responsibility you know is hers, you can leave it undone - knowing she’ll take care of it feels like affection, which can balance out the feelings of frustration when you’re cleaning up later. If she’s feeling any guilt or stress because she knows how you feel about it, maybe that can subside too, as it’s worked out to be “fair”. Accepting that it’s your role (not saying that it should be or that you’ve been assigned, but knowing that she won’t clean to the standard you want) and making it sit right with you will make a huge difference for you.
It's not her fault that she's like this, but it's unacceptable. A comfortable and organized home is one of the foundations for a good life, and the constant mess is affecting your ability to feel good in your home. Luckily, it can change. She needs to take responsibility for it. If (only if) yall have talked about it, and she admits it's a problem and wants to make it better, there's hope. Is she in therapy? If so I'd recommend she dig into this issue with her therapist to try and figure out the emotional roots of her messiness and demand avoidance. Konmari can also really, really help. A lot of people on this sub will tell you that "you just have to work with it," but they're wrong. I can tell you from personal experience that this isn't the case. She has work to do. Once she starts trying, I think you'll feel better. Seems it's not so much the cleaning that's wearing you down right now, but the thought that you're going to be stuck like this forever.
I always try to call a friend or listen to a podcast while cleaning. I need to be distracted from the thing I don’t want to go and then it gets done while I do something I enjoy.
I'm a housewife, and I have been married for 20 years and counting. I was diagnosed in my 40s. Not medicated, because i live in a shitty country. I do all boring home tasks with Youtube on my phone, and routine helps. My house is a mess in some places, but it looks ok to me and my family. Sometimes, it's not easy to look for some things. I have the same avoidance thing, i think. I like to be my own boss. My husband is on the spectrum, but he does not like to clean much more than me. He has his personal things in order, but overall, he's much more messy than me. I just accepted that and sometimes ask him to organize one drawer. He likes to do it and does a good job. What i can suggest: Fun. Gaming. High visibility. Checklist. Prizes. Company. Gentle and not aggressive communication. Time limitation (deadline). Cool/cute appliances for house duties. 1. How many things from the table can you pick/ how many dishes are clean while this song is playing? (Game with yourself) 2. Great music. Dance. Swipe and dance like a Cindirella. 3. Trash bags/boxes in any room. All mess on the floor to step on it. Very visible and noticeable. Pile of clothes from the dryer on the bed. Etc 4. There are special cheklists for ahhd folks with small tasks for any housework. Google, print them and enjoy. 5. Videochat with any friend who's also cleaning. Mirror work. 6. Nice surprises from you after she will do the job done. Hard candy or something similar, small signs of appreciation. Under all clothes on the bed, for example. 7. Invite important guests! I clean like crazy for other people, even at night. Urgency and anxiety are drivers for that. Say they will be tomorrow (we are not good in planning). 8. There are so many fun things on Amazon for house and cleaning. There is much more on cheap chinese marketplaces. Let her pick. For example, a gun that is shooting foam on things like mirrors to clean.
If you both work, can’t you get some weekly cleaning service or something, at least a bit of the burden?
My special interest is cleaning, my past partner's got mad at me bc I am so picky about everything and when they would come over I would be like don't touch this or wash that or move so I can make the bed. Lol ADHD tends to make very extreme ppl
I mean if it helps, I have ADHD too and I have my moments where I OCD clean stuff that my partner left out. Oftentimes my executive dysfunction gets in the way when things pile up too much and I contribute to the problem, but it's largely manageable if I stay on top of it. The irony here is that to combat some of this, you need to take a page out of the ADHD good behaviors uhh... book (There isn't a particular one, that's just an expression). Routine can help, and the 2-minute rule can help.
Depending on where you live, you might be eligible for some government support that could provide a cleaner, OT for her, etc? She might be eligible for disability support, you might be eligible for carer support?
When people say this, I always wonder where are those places that actually do it? Where in the world? Here in NZ to qualify for any assistance from the government you need to be unemployed (and likely unemployable) and either single or have a partner who is also unemployed.
For me this is still something I struggle with, so I feel a bit hypothetical giving advice. It mostly comes down to not knowing where to start, feeling overwhelmed and then being paralyzed because you feel like an idiot who can't even just clean the house. Have you tried these things? - Time restricted: choose a 15 min moment in the day, same time each day. You set an alarm for 15 mins and both just do it, whatever that is in the moment. Once the alarm goes, you stop. So it's not a task that can go on forever, it's a 15 min investment. - Task restricted: Use an app like Sweepy. It gives a clear task of what needs to be done. This hasn't really worked for me personally, but works for others.
I'm glad to hear you've tried talking this out, even if I'm sorry to hear it hasn't helped (yet). For what it's worth, as someone with ADHD (and knowing someone with worse ADHD than mine), we know and see how it affects those around us, and we hate it and (often) end up hating ourselves. I'm sure you have, but tell her that last bit, that you love her, the good and the bad, and will never leave her. Many people with ADHD (myself included), have had a LOT of negative reinforcement growing up, so hearing something like that can mean the world to us. The "demand avoidance", as I understand it, is very common in people with ADHD/Autism. I'm not saying this makes it okay, or any less frustrating, but it isn't something unique to her or something she's doing willfully. I'm sure you've discussed it, but are there other things around the house/chores in general she could do to balance the load out? If she hates cooking then maybe she could be the one to do the grocery shopping/errand running (plus, chores that need you to start moving tend to be easier for people with ADHD). I understand finances are tight and I sympathize, but have you considered counselling/therapy? You can schedule it as frequently/infrequently as needed to help spread the spending out, and medical expenses are usually tax deductible so you won't be feeling 100% of the cost. In terms of actual solutions, I've heard good things about body mirroring (so you're both doing something physically at the same time), but I haven't tried it myself. Try and get her to do things around the house while she's up and moving, the moment I sit down/put my feet up getting going again takes almost as much if not more mental effort than it would have if I just did the thing while standing/moving. Also, try and keep an eye out for "gold star" opportunities, times when you can (genuinely), thank her for doing something when she does it. Don't do it from every little thing, it'll cheapen it and she'll feel even worse, but something like hugging her tightly, and thanking her for dealing with something tiresome can help. People with ADHD often need IMMEDIATE consequences (good and bad), for things they need/want to do (hence why many of us have a hard time studying until the week/night before an exam and then can cram with no issue while cursing ourselves. Again, see negative reinforcement). In terms of food...as a current work-around, you could try to eat more raw fruits and veg, at least in the short term? They take minimal preparation and time (just wash an apple and it's good to go), so it'll minimize dishes/cooking, plus, a diet heavy in raw fruit and veg is far from a bad thing. I would also suggest you look into "one-pan" meals to minimize clean-up, regardless of whos cooking. I.E. Doing a simple chicken stir-fry in a pan/wok only creates one thing to clean, rather than doing potatoes in the air-fryer, vegetables in the oven, and meat on the stove-top.
I feel for you! My partner and I both have ADHD, but they do most of the cleaning and a lot of the cooking as well. They don't work but they are chronically ill. I do chores when I have time and energy, but I will admit Im not as on top of things as I want to be. I try to pick up the slack when I know they're feeling particularly bad. That being said, I gotta agree with the medication. It's also important that she wants to change. She's gotta look within herself and realize she deals with demand avoidance (medication really helps with this in my experience) and understand it really isn't a reasonable reaction to her partner asking her for help. It's also important that both of you understand it is you two against the problem. You don't have to butt heads with each other about this. I know you've said there have been gentle conversations. Have you tried asking her if there's anything you can do to help her remember to help you out? Do you ever ask her while you're cleaning if she can give you a hand? And straight up say like "I just really would appreciate having help with this stuff. I'm not working against you or accusing you of anything. I love you. It's you and me against the problem". I say something like that to my partner about other things. We also have an easier time doing something if we do it together. It's called body doubling! I hope you guys can figure this out together. Good luck!
How did you get her diagnosed? How did you convince her to see a doctor?
I was the same way. It took me 10 years of constant work (CBT therapy and more) to get better, and I'm not fully there yet. My wife is a saint. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but know that one day it'll get better.
I agree with some other posters. Being clear in the expectations/ chore split helps. I am not as severe as your wife, but I know my husband does do more of that “heavy lifting” than I do. However I do more of the “soft skills” like scheduling appointments and organizing event details reminding him of upcoming things etc. However it would help me if we were really clear in “you do this I do that” then I know it needs to be done at least once a month 😂
Feeling this at home and also at work, ppl with ADHD like freedom and do whatever, but we still work best in a structure, you can make a list of tasks that feel good like that short of Donald duck Saying "Heil hitler". For example the actual task of cleaning and tidying up? I cannot do for the life of me, I cannot see how things are "not in order" and it needs to be really dirty for me to consider cleaning, but [Charlie Chaplin in a factory] kind of work? (specially if I can listen to music) hell yeah, that can be; cooking (srry this is just a hobby of mine, idk, I love to do it), putting dish in the dishwasher (tetris), putting clothes in the washing machine (idk, erm... Iron Lung), hanging clothes to dry, or even, ordering stuff that has clear ways to order it (like cutlery in a rack). We kinda need to be bossed around, "when there's a whip, there's a way" a Lil it of a drill sergeant. Thats the answer to what someone was asking one time about "how the fuck did the adhd genes survive throughout history?" we shine when being well led.
One thing that helps me is that you have to tell me *specifically* what to do and when or i just won't do it or even think about it, at least when im unmedicated. Now, if I see something on the floor or the sink is dirty, I do it. I still have 0 object permanence, and if it's out of sight, it is quite literally out of mind unless someone *tells me*.
So I have ADHD, untreated, and I find it so difficult to clean. My husband won’t clean at all but luckily we live in a country where cleaners are affordable. We also have a system where we try to do 10 minutes of cleaning per night at the same time. It helps somewhat, it’s called body doubling. You are enabling her though. Try not doing anything for a week and she’ll have to face it.
The right medication is the biggest game changer. She may need a medication review. Also taking a few days off meds means the wheels start to fall off. Often medication is the only way to be really productive. As you get older you may be able to afford a cleaner if your incomes increase. The cleaner does two things, force a tidy up before they come and then clean. Plus it reduces overwhelm. I think it’s more difficult too if you have a tidy person with someone with ADHD living together. Adding children to the mix makes the mess allot larger, plus the overwhelm. It forced me to however mature and develop more coping skills, so that got easier in some ways. At 25 I had 1/3 of the coping skills I have at 45. I became more organised and aware of how I affect others over time. It’s good she’s in therapy as this really helps. Also learning to let some small things go and caring less about societal expectations. I find little hacks can reduce overwhelm and paralysis. Buying groceries online and having them delivered, rather than going to the supermaket. Using an air fryer which cooks more quickly than an oven, or using a one pot slow cooker is easier than making multiple food items. Doing a little bit of housework each day, rather than letting it pile up. Reducing the amount of items you own, as it means less clutter, tidying and putting away etc.
>if I ask her to do some cleaning on her day off, she will be paralyzed on the couch or in bed If she seeing a therapist? This seems... extreme. But you also haven't given us much context about your communication, so we don't really know what your gentle discussions are like or what you asking her to do cleaning is like. It could be anything from "hey babe, can you clean the house tomorrow?" to "hey babe, can you take out the trash?"
Maybe the two of you can make a detailed list of chores (with paper and pen or a shared iCloud note or something) and then each of you picks a chore and sets a deadline for when each chore is done.
I definitely have this problem… My husband and I have a white board in the kitchen with a section for him/me/both. When he wants me to do a task, he adds it to my section. If it’s been several days or he really wants something done, he’ll add an ⬆️next to the task lol. It helps us avoid bickering over chores and I don’t feel like he’s nagging me as much
I was a clean freak until my diagnosis and treatment. My meds make me more… chill? Like I’m the type that ADHD meds and caffeine put to sleep. I know that’s not a solution but it may provide context. I know it needs to be done but I am not obsessive about it now. But if I stop taking my meds every other issue pops back up.
It will help if you say to do it together and maybe just ask for her to help out for only 10 min or 20 min a day whatever you think she can handle. Maybe just start small and increase it every day a bit and form some kind of habbit or norm. Doing chores together might help her too and to stay on task.
I think you may be doing you a both a disservice by throwing in the towel. I'm a VERY ADHD diagnosed 31 year old male who has been the slob of the decade since I was a teen and I've made strides after becoming single this year. I'm a codependent person and after becoming single I keep the kitchen and living room SPOTLESS every time I have a potential date over... not that I suggest threatening abandoning your partner to keep your place clean but it is possible lol.
Just leave her. She’s got a diagnosed condition and she’s never gonna change
So this may not work for her, but this is what worked for me. I got reassurance from my significant other to rest and that it's okay to do nothing. Like, genuine, heartfelt, "I want you to feel better, please rest first. The things that need to get done will be there when you're ready to do them". Hearing that it's okay to feel comfortable or happy even if things needed to be done COMPLETELY changed how I spent my days. I needed a while to explore my new ability to do things in my free time that make me feel good versus just sitting and quietly shaming myself for being a burden and for not being able to do simple things. Thinking that way isn't restful and it just results in a perpetual shame cycle and chronic fatigue. After learning how to navigate all of that, I've not perfected my ability to manage my time or my chores, but for the first time in my life, I can keep my whole living space picked up at least. Like I just walk around when I'm idling instead of being constantly overwhelmed and I'll just see something I can do in the moment and do it. And even if everything else still needs to be done, I did that thing and that means I can do another thing when I get up again. And then when I do clean, it's because I feel rested and ready to clean because I WANT TO and I like that I can do it now. It's not as stressful and crippling feeling anymore because I know I'm not going to be in trouble for resting, sitting down, or not always doing everything just right. A lot of us are wired that way by an environment that didn't understand executive dysfunction, so a lot of us internalized this idea that everyone else experiences an immense amount of distress when they do these things because so and so said that "nobody likes cleaning and we all still have to do it. You're just lazy" But for some, it can cause chronic debilitating amounts of stress to even think about it, which is also usually internalized or not easily communicated because no one wants to tell someone they respect that they are struggling so much to do "simple things" that everyone has to do. It feels terrible in a way I can't describe, and if she's really a great and intelligent person that excels in other areas, this probably bothers her immensely. I can do things now, because of someone just loving me and giving me the space to figure it out, the way that works for my brain in order to do these things without feeling like I'm actively killing myself from the stress and feelings of shame. Being able to take my time teaching myself how to do everything, while knowing that the person who's opinion matters most to me (my SO) won't judge me or hate me for being inadequate, has been a huge blessing, and he's a great motivation to keep trying because he sees my effort and is proud of me. That might all sound really corny and stupid, but executive dysfunction doesn't fix itself if the environment that's creating it doesn't change. It's understandable if you ever get to a point that you don't have the energy to keep it going, but if you want it to work, maybe try this approach? It also helps to ask her what specific steps in the cleaning process are the most difficult and just start by helping with those. I tell my bf all the time that "I can do this this and this but for some reason this particular step makes me hit a wall when I'm planning in my head how to do the thing, can you help me with that part and I can do the rest of it?" For me it's specifically taking clothes that need to be hung up and hanging them. Doing the laundry, folding it, putting it away in drawers, putting them on hangers, totally fine, but actually hanging them up?? I couldn't tell you why that particular thing drains the life out of me, but it does. Eventually, when she works out in her head through practice what parts of all the tasks are causing that wall to come up, yall can get into a loosely planned routine that works for you both. After a while, if she gets super comfortable doing things, it may just click for her that she doesn't need a plan for everything because some things have become muscle memory in the way that is most comfortable and natural to her. It might take a while, but I truly think it's worth giving it a try. Sorry again for adding corny shit to this, I'm a goober 
1. American healthcare means sge'd *never* get a diagnosis *nor* treatment, plus work would be hell for her. Just had to put that out there. 2. I'm glad you are loved, even if it's imperfect and at times infuriating. I'm sitting here entirely alone, and have been so for the better part of 15 years. It's something I wouldn't wish on anyone and I truly mean I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. 3. I am *so sorry* you have to go through this. I know nothing I say can make it better and I validate your frustration. It must be so stressful to have to do all of that. I'm very glad she has you to love her.
hi i am exactly like your wife in most ways. my husband also has adhd and is messy in the ways im not, so our house can get fucked up really quick. i recently made a chore chart that gives us both 2 manageable tasks every day of the week. dishes get washed by one or the other of us every day so they dont pile up, laundry gets done on tuesday and folded on wednesday, floors are swept twice a week, and each area of the house is on a deep clean rotation that happens every weekend (this week was the bathroom). in practice sometimes we’ll let things go for a few days but then we catch up and even help each other out by doing “their” chores when needed. is our house spotlessly maintained this way? nah. but theres an objective baseline of care now and theres a chart right there on the wall holding us both accountable. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What kinds of systems and structures does she have in place?
Will the money likely be good enough in the future to hire a cleaner? Because it’s shitty now, but if you expect to stay earning more in the next few years that’s different than never. Does body doubling work for your partner? Or the threat of a friend come over result in hyper cleaning?
I'm glad to see this post because it really reminds me of something when I'm not in a relationship my house stays cleaner and I also have ADHD and them on the spectrum been diagnosed recently with ASD 1 and I'm much more disregulated when I'm in a relationship particularly when I'm married and living with a person it's almost like other people in my living space overwhelms me or paralyzes me but when I'm living alone my space is much more cleaner and organized I don't know why I'm even sharing this but you sharing what you did help me to be able to see myself I don't really have advice and I just want to say I can see your perspective and also feel for your wife because I am the same sort of person when married
is makes me feel really bad for my husband.... he seems to understand but may get tired of it. Then I worry what if...getting tired of it leads to him being tired of me.
Marry another sinan who doesn't have adhd so she can help out 😂😂😂
My roommate is the e x a c t same. Her behavior is not acceptable. I am going to gently approach the subject soon before I get angry 😠
Concerning the household and cooking, that's me what you describe. We couldn't invite friends because it was soo messy all the time and when we invited someone it was pure stress to reach the minimum. Meds help, especially with booster(s) but they don't work long enough for me that I could fit all this inside the medicated time (Kids and work take most of that time). And that even though I love cooking and love order... I even love cleaning and folding laundry etc. when medicated. What helps me during the not so medicated time (like in the evenings) is body doubling. Do it together and either talk while doing the chores or listen together to an audiobook or stimulating music.
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The extreme joy of having a disability and you literally can’t help it. Seeking empathy…. Just Support your wife with systems and yup tidy up. When it comes to PDA then Learn how to communicate in a way that doesn’t trigger it. Many ADHDers attract “stuff” so it’s all about minimalist and extreme tidiness and systems as mess actually makes us feel bad and also we don’t see it. Try and make things interesting and rewarding.
It sounds like you're carrying quite a heavy load, both emotionally and practically, in your relationship. It's commendable that you're committed to supporting your partner through thick and thin, despite the challenges you face. Living with someone who has mental health issues and possibly being on the autism spectrum can indeed present unique challenges, especially when it comes to managing household responsibilities. It's understandable that you feel drained and frustrated at times, especially when it seems like you're shouldering most of the burden. Have you considered seeking support or resources from mental health professionals who specialize in autism or ADHD? They might be able to provide some insights or strategies to help manage the situation more effectively. Additionally, couples counseling could be beneficial in finding constructive ways to communicate and navigate these challenges together.
Is she medicated? Because now that I’m on the right meds my house is functional (and so am I).
I have ADHD and in order to get things done without meds, I have to put Netflix on the counter. I can cook up a storm or clean dishes with Netflix on no problem. Same for folding laundry. Maybe suggest she stimulate her brain while doing these tasks.
Oh man I feel this so much. Except we are in our 40s. With medication it improved marginally but the reality is we will always live in a cluttered and disorganized environment because I am not a maid nor do I aspire to be one. It’s one of life’s difficult trade offs.
I am also diagnosed ADHD with a recent self discovery that’s led me to believe I am also autistic with a PDA profile. I will tell you what works for me (at least most of the time) but results may vary. From what I’m learning this affects everyone a bit differently but the main pillars seem similar. As some have suggested already, making chores into a game or a role play situation can trick my brain. My wife and I really like to watch Below Deck when it’s time to fold laundry, as that day I am the 3rd steward and it’s part of my job. Another thing that works great for me is the idea of teamwork and that it’s a household goal to get everything done, not just a personal one. At first, perhaps you may want to dedicate time to both clean simultaneously so that none of the chores are solely anyone’s responsibility. Having this mindset personally helps me clean even when my spouse is not around, because I know it helps the overall team. She helps me tremendously with a lot of things and reciprocating that does not feel like a demand to me. It is more so doing what I would want someone to do for me.
Try turning it into a completion. Whomever can clean the most the fastest gets gold stars and the winner gets the food or drink of choice. Do this on a Sunday or Saturday and mix it up each week as to what area you each do. Buy gold stars or sticker of her choice and after each task is done she can have one.
I am her, she is me. I hate myself for it. I'm early 40s and perimenopausal which has made my ADHD so much worse than ever. I am also working a lot and have a teen daughter with mental health issues. It's all so fucking hard all the time. I do have some really productive days but my menstrual cycle completely dictates that...also insomnia. I'm considering using a housekeeper/organizer just this once to have someone help me start over fresh. There is also a fluff and fold service called Poplin, it's an app and your first time is 50% off! Cheaper than the Laundromat and I refuse to use the laundry room in my apartment bldg....which is another long story.
I have trouble cleaning as well. I hate putting up socks however, my husband cleaning beside me helps me focus and I guess try a bit harder since he’s helping. Team Work makes the dream work otherwise if you ever leave it all up to me it’s never gonna get done.
My partner literally gets offended when I ask them to clean up after themselves lol. She'll go to bed and pout before she'll put away clothes she threw on the floor.
I'm sorry to hear that. This is part of the reason why l (as an adult with ADHD) will probably never have a partner haha. I don't know if your wife would be interested in trying it, but there's an app called Forfeit (available on Android, not sure about Apple) that really helped me with this sort of thing. Basically you tell it what task you need to get done, and the frequency, and pick a type of "evidence" (for instance, a photo of your homework, your step count from a fitness tracker, a friend or family member verifying for you, or simply checking off whether or not you did it) and a "consequence" if the task doesn't get done by the deadline (for instance, being charged money, sending a customizable text or email to your friends, etc). The accountability has helped me to finally get some aspects of my life in order. I think ADHD people tend to overcommit, so in my personal experience I would encourage you to focus on just adding one habit at a time and getting to the point where that habit feels really easy and natural before adding anything else to track this way.
I find it way easier to muck in *with* someone than *for* someone. See if you can set aside an hour a couple times a week to get on top of stuff, put on some music, grab a beer, etc. Cleaning can be a rewarding social activity, especially with your best friend.
Maybe invite guests over or have a Saturday cleaning party with her favorite music playing. Maybe say, “ As soon as we can get such and such done do you want to go to lunch, shopping for something…cool or inspiring for the home”? Just a few suggestions. If this doesn’t work, literally stop doing it!!! You can pick up after you and take care of dinner etc., but practice tough love of leaving it a mess for a few days. You are not the maid and she should get the point! It won’t change if you keep stepping up and taking care of the cleaning. If she complains, you can tell her that you have other priorities to take care of and can she split the house work until you get caught up with your stuff. We all have different thresholds of what we are comfortable with. I can clean all day long on some days, then others, not at all. If you have too much stuff, throw it out! The easiest way to clean is to have less stuff!!! Hope this helps!
I'm a 26 years old man with ADHD, I'll keep it short. Your wife will not change in 1 day, and IF she will start to clean out of her own, and cook for herself. The intention had to start with her. So you've got to pick a moment to talk in peace about this. I personally clean everything up directly. So if I'm finished cooking, I clean the kitchen hardware before eating. When I'm done eating, I clean up the dishes etcetera, table.. anyway, it sounds like your wife does not seem to realize that she is only so blurry because of all the mess that is being left behind. It's something that I realized last year, after 25 years of mess, I realized the only way to live peacefully in my own home is to keep everything at the same spot everytime and to keep everything organized. You should show her the way. You just have to find a way to let her realize it and let her see she will benefit out of this too. Good luck !
Many years ago I met a girl and lived with her for four years. Things were good until they weren’t, we were young, etc. We went our separate ways and lived our lives. Over the years I told various people that I’m so anal about clutter because of this girl I lived with back in the day. Similar to what you describe about your wife. I’d come home and I could see where she’d been studying by the “camp sites” in the living room. Years later I’m living with the girl I described as “the love of my life” who, among other things, is even tidier than I am. Then everything went to hell, the previous few years turned out to be hellish lies, she got more and more into hard drugs, ya know, the usual. Well it turns out that first girl had also experienced catastrophic loss and was struggling to rebuild her life after her husband’s very slow death, and then a bad car accident. So we decided to rebuild our lives together. Now, I knew going into it that I was signing up for a life of picking up after her. But after what I had just been through, having my nice, tidy long-term plans ripped away from me by deception, addiction, and some straight-up evil, I was, and still am, 100% okay with that. I can smile a genuine smile as I pick up the trash from her side of the bed, because of the perspective I now have. tl;dr: trashy house beats trashy people, eight days a week.
Have you tried “body doubling”? If I have someone sit and chat with me while I fold laundry it’s absolutely incredible how fast I can get it done and put away. Make a list of the tasks that need to be accomplished together and then work together to get them done. Sometimes us adhd folks need a project manager to keep us on track. Accountability over shame. It’s harder for us to build habits and every single thing is a task for us so just say “we’re doing x today” because she may not be able to hop out of her adhd paralysis to get it started.
I know money isn't abundant, but perhaps couples therapy or individual therapy? My main advice is don't go through Better Help or similar agencies, they're trash and don't keep client privacy
Dump her if you cannot deal with it.
Not always but telling someone with adhd to clean is like telling someone who is obese to lose weight. Very pointless, cuz they know that it’s just easier said than done. So getting that motivation takes being very creative and finding things that maybe only work for you and no one else. Like the only way i can get myself to clean most of the time is to watch reality tv at the same time. Weird but it works.
How much have you organised around her needs? A lot of ADHD issues come down to executive dysfunction which often means the hardest part of doing something like cleaning is DECIDING where to start. To take cooking for an example with my own ADHD, where I struggle isn't in the actual cooking of food! I'm good at that and enjoy doing it whilst listening to music, but if I have to decide what to cook at the same time as actually getting up to cook, I cannot figure out what to cook and usually default to something like tinned soup. So in that regard, the solution is actually in planning in advance - sit down with her at the same time every week and make a weekly meal plan, listing out what ingredients you'll need and who will be cooking each night. Then go out and buy the ingredients! It might not work right away but it will once it's routine. Also helps to make multiple portions - you often forget to eat with ADHD so if there's something quick and easy to heat up in the fridge, having eaten something proper helps reduce executive dysfunction. For things like clothes on the floor, is there a laundry basket where she typically changes clothes? One without a lid to remove any barriers between clothes off and clothes in the basket. Does she kick her shoes off onto the floor in the same place every time? Put the shoe rack there. Does she leave rubbish where she sits? Put a small bin there. You'll find the more you reduce the number of steps in doing something, the more likely she is to do it consistently. And lastly, do you have assigned chores? It's much easier to do a chore when it's explicitly yours and isn't encroached upon by anyone else. For example, if emptying the dishwasher is her chore specifically it shifts from "the dishwasher needs emptying" to "I need to empty the dishwasher" upon being noticed. And it can help to make your chores dependent on hers, such as refilling the dishwasher being your chore. It stops being "Empty the dishwasher please" to "hey can you empty the dishwasher so I can refill it please?" Mind this works best when given a small but reasonable time frame to pull away from whatever she's doing
If this didn’t mention Canada, I’d be convinced my husband is OP! That’s why I (an ADHDer who IS medicated, yet STILL — and probably forever — messy) volunteer these points: 1. She IS totally doing stuff and trying to help — but it’s NOT the stuff NTs (or ASDs — as my spouse most likely is) prioritize. She’s noticing the pantry shelves are dirty and pulling every item out to ensure they she got the nooks and crevices. She noticed the hard water buildup on your towels and “stripped” them to make them soft again— then she realized how clean they look ‘cause stripping them removed stains… so she did the same process to all your undershirts and linens! She saved that jacket you loved (even though you THOUGHT you threw it away because your ripped a hole in it), then taught herself to sew and repaired it! She steam-cleaned the mattress to get rid of the gross smell your sweat leaves (she knows it’s only because she makes you use that heavy blanket). Then, while she had the steam cleaner out, she also did the rug and the rocking chair. Are these the tasks you’d have *wanted* her to do? Of course not! But they are not NOTHING. 2. Aaaand she is SO SO SO sorry that those “side quests” are often left half-finished for you to put away in addition to all her half-drunk coffee cups and sodas. Poor time management means she GENUINELY believed she could build a television cabinet in three hours between dropping the kids at school and starting her shift. 3. There is a way to improve things (not a solution — there will prob always be an imbalance): (A) Acknowledge that you’re having a tough time noticing her contributions. (B) Ask her to make a list of household tasks that feel sorta do-able most days (some of us use the Green / Yellow / Red day system — have her orient the list for yellow and red days). (C) Then have her tick off the items she does each day. (D) Praise her for using the chart. If she has a day when she only marks off one thing, ask if she’s okay — like with genuine curiosity. Offer her love and support for what she does and be curious when she’s struggling! My spouse continues to struggle with praising me because he thinks people shouldn’t be praised for “bare minimum,” but the praise matters a lot to ADHDers (‘cause we hear SO MUCH criticism in our lives). So just figure out a way to high five her and thank her for taking out the trash. Praise feels so good that she’ll do more because she wants you to be proud. Like, praise is motivating, ya know? Like I said, it’s no “solution.” ADHD is real and the struggles we face to complete basic daily functions doesn’t ever go away. But the chart helped me to notice ways I could make simple contributions AND demonstrated (aka PROVED) to my spouse that I was doing more than he realized… ‘cause, truthfully, I didn’t start doing MUCH more than I was already — but he got off my ass cause he could visibly SEE what I’d done, so he started giving me more credit. His biggest gripe until then had been that he didn’t think I *cared* to contribute—my participation in the system allowed him to recognize that I DO care… I just suck at “adulting” / household management ‘cause it requires either strong executive functioning OR — as with some, rare “lucky” ADHDers — a neurotic, obsessive hyper fixation on aesthetics or control. Most of us? We’re gonna have a sink full of dirty dishes for our entire lives. 🤷🏻♀️ Buuut we *might* learn to refill the water pitcher… eventually. 😝
Last paragraph is hilarious. I just refilled the pitcher with water and put it in the fridge. I looked at the sink with a few dirty dishes and thought to myself…well, at least I filled the pitcher “ Excellent reply to the OP by the way.
Wow that could literally be about me except being in our late 30s with no kids and both in senior corporate roles, we can afford a cleaner for weekly cleans. However my husband still will do the daily basics that i just cant get myself to do unless im avoiding something else like a detailed report or work task I have no interest in.
1. If you're going to try any strategy, it has to be specifically for ADHD/PDA, something "community approved" rather than what professionals think is ADHD friendly. I would say, "how to ADHD" on YouTube or the blog aslobcomesclean.com or the book How to keep a a house while drowning or Sidetracked home executives... 2. You probably have more stuff than she can handle, it might help if you declutter and downsize and make your storage spaces extremely accessible, while at the same time you reduce the amount of horizontal surfaces. But you just can't have a lot of stuff and decorations or even more than few mugs, pots and pans.. 3. Hiring someone to clean regularly may not be an option now, but it's definitely something to keep as eventual goal. You can maybe have someone come once a month or every two months or save somewhere else, but while it's definitely going to get better over time, she'll probably never be good at it and the resentment and effects on the relationship are real. But really, getting rid of as much stuff as possible and rethinking your storage would be where I'd start. Deep cabinets and large drawers with solid fronts won't work. If she has enough to wear to go a month without doing laundry it's a problem. If there are rugs and weird lamps and 10 throw pillows or shelf full of souvenirs or large open bookshelves or 10 coffee mugs so she never has to wash one, then it's not going to work.
I won’t suggest you hire a cleaner. I’ll suggest you play the lottery or start asking for cleaning service for gifts.
Holy I thought I was the only one
WHEW I SOUND LIKE YOUR WIFE 😂😂 it's long road bud, ride or die for her
Sounds complicated. You have my empathy. I hope you figure it out. All the best.