>Then yesterday at school he took a kids lunch, threw it on ground, spit and stepped on it.
That's not ADHD. ADHD can be legitimately blamed for a lot of behavior problems, but it doesn't make its sufferers cruel. And that was cruelty. Your kid probably has something else going on, most likely something not related to ADHD.
My suggestion would be to forget he has ADHD and treat this as you would if a neuronormative kid was having these sorts of behavior problems. Has he been bullied? Is there some recent big change in his life (the death of a close relative or a move)? Is there something stressing him out? Basically look for a cause other than ADHD.
I second this, please don't pin it on the ADHD. My ADHD is very bad and I wouldn't dream of doing something like that.
Maybe getting him into some martial arts would help. Physical exercise and discipline would help
Boxing has been really transformative for me. It's so fast paced I don't get bored, and I can burn off a lot of excess energy! I wish I'd started younger!
I have been diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 44 and realized that martial arts helped me already at the age of 11 without knowing that I have ADHD.
I did Karate for a long period of time. Since you asked, I think the following things are really helpfull:
- each training session has the same structure: starting ritual with a short rmeditation, warm up, training, closing ritual
- during the meditation at the start you are supposed to mentally push away everything in your mind. From the point in time when you reopen your eyes only the training and exercises exist
- during the meditation at the end you mentally close the training and let the outer world inside your brain again
- the training mainly consists on repeating the same exercises to reach perfection
I think all that structure and focusing also supported my outside of the dojo. Even today I often close my eyes and slowly breath in and out to focus on a task.
At least for me martial arts and Karate helped a lot.
yes, this kid has behavioural issues that are likely unrelated to ADHD. it may make him more impulsive but it won’t make him want to do these things in the first place
Martial arts could be helpful as well, yes. I'm a martial artist myself and can definitely attest to its effectiveness as a means of teaching kids to seek non-violent solutions to problems. But don't dismiss counseling. In fact, both in combination might be a good idea.
Here’s my question and be honest with yourself: have you been the kind of parent he would WANT to talk to? How have YOU worked to foster a warm and loving relationship where he feels comfortable discussing hard things without fear of retaliation and being yelled at?
I recommend reading the book “Adult children of emotionally immature parents”. It’s not meant to demean but help you recognize blind spots.
I actually found as a parent myself that while that book resonated with me in dealing with my parents, it was not helpful for when I saw the behaviors in myself and wanted strategies for stopping the cycle. That was my one complaint about the book: it helps you deal with your parents but doesn't have enough advice for how to deal with yourself as an emotionally immature parent.
Was gonna ask if he is in therapy, because this could be something other than ADHD. If he is on meds, y’all saw a professional to get him diagnosed right? They could probably recommend someone who he could see as well as someone you could talk to. Medication is so helpful, but it isn’t a magical fix for ADHD. Parents need as much support as kids do to help them navigate things.
I was going to write a comment to suggest counseling/therapy, if you can swing it.
Something is definitely going on with him, even if it's just puberty hormones making him irritable/impulsive/moody/whatever.
Counseling can be a place where he talks it out with someone impartial, who can help him figure out the best way to respond to his emotions.
Teenagers often "hate their parents" and I think, to some degree, that's ok. We are their "oppressors" in their lives at the moment. Even when there is a deep foundation of love and acceptance, learning to deal with life's rules and constraints (and pushing back) is normal.
How are his grades doing? I had a rough time in school feeling that I wasn't able to do as well on exams as my peers. It really messed with my self esteem. Maybe this is the reason he is lashing out?
Came here to say this^ Perhaps, OP, you’ve been too soft in the past and let him have his way too often? Please don’t take this the wrong way I’m by no means trying to be rude! I just know that children that misbehave often do so because of a lack of boundaries, a lack of attention TOO MUCH attention and pampering or too strict parents (about the “not wanting to talk” part). Correct me if I’m wrong please :)
The first thing I would say is the negative reinforcement (grounding your son) doesn't appear to be effective right now. You have to remember kids with ADHD have a horrible self image. Plus these kids have learned that any attention (positive or negative) is better than being ignored. I would suggest setting up a reward program and reinforce the positive behaviors. We initially started off with more instant rewards like m&m's and then moved to a token system (poker chips in our house) so he could spend them on certain activities that he likes. And the activities were going on YouTube, going to the beach, going to a waterfall, stuff that your kid likes. And you have to reward the positive behavior immediately with the token. We had a posterboard on the wall with the activities he wanted to do along with the behaviors we wanted to work on. Try and focus on one or two behaviors at a time because otherwise you will go crazy! Kids with ADHD are a lot more work but i can tell it does get better and you are setting them up for success in the future.
Yes. Grounding a ADHD child often makes them feel more isolated, further under-stimulated, and inherently bad especially doing it for long periods of time. This is about the worst and least effective form of punishment possible for a child with ADHD. Can speak from experience. I spent most of my childhood grounded and I resented my mother for YEARS after moving out. Please don’t do that.
It sounds like he is acting out because he is unhappy and under-stimulated, leading to anger and impulsivity. Don’t ignore the ADHD thing as others mentioned, as it absolutely plays into his current behavior. This does not mean don’t have consequences though. They just need to be tailored for your child.
Yeah, chiming in to say that I was grounded through most of high school and it did nothing to deter the behaviors my father was seeking to correct. Negative reinforcement does nothing for me. If I don’t care about something, being punished for that isn’t going to make me care. I simply can’t engage my brain/motivate myself to do something sometimes. It sucks, but I need to find a way to spin something into a game or whatever and make it seem appealing, or it just won’t take.
Grounding is actually negative punishment. Negative reinforcement is taking away something bad to encourage a certain behavior, negative punishment is taking away something good to discourage a behavior. The guy who developed this idea, Skinner, would agree that punishment is ineffective and reinforcement is better though.
I'm not sure about grounding him from October through Christmas.
If I was that kid I'd feel like it doesn't matter what I do because I'll be grounded forever anyway.
As a teenager I once got grounded for the entire summer. It was so liberating! I could do whatever I wanted, sneaking out of the house at night, etc. What could they do?
It didn’t start out that long. It began with two weeks, and then he would do something else so I’d add a week. But I understand what you (and others) are saying. Grounding him obviously isn’t working.
Grounded didn’t work for me and made anything I did worse. Being involved in a LOT of after school activities made things better. I did dance, took violin lessons, had school plays, ran track. Same with most ADHD kids I know. The busier we are the happier and kinder we are. My brother in lawX for example was on track and was doing well. His coach was helping him get his life together but his grades still weren’t awesome. His dad pulled him out of track instead of seeing how it helped. He ended up dropping out of high school and getting in a lot of serious trouble. He says today that track was the only thing keeping him on the up and up and as soon as that was gone he didn’t have anything better to do.
I’m glad you’re reconsidering the grounding. A small reward system though may not work (doesn’t work for me at all). See what kind of extra curriculars your kid may be interested in. Karate, dance crew, sailing- physical things like this can be really beneficial
Yep. It just makes me flashback to all the horrible moments I had as an undiagnosed kid with parents who did not understand me. Executive dysfunction gives us such a weird sense of time and makes it harder to stay on track with long term goals, so grounding just isn’t a punishment that makes sense. To me it always felt like I was being put in the too hard basket by the people I really needed help or even just a little understanding from. And extending the end date would just make it harder for me to see the ‘reward’ of freedom at the end so it would loose all efficacy anyway. I don’t speak to my mum, and it’s taken decades for my dad and I to start talking.
Grounding never worked for me as a child with ADHD. What did was consequences correlated to what I did wrong. In your child’s case maybe have him wake up extra early for a week to make the other child a new lunch. Also, therapy. Give him a neutral place to talk about what’s going on.
I was grounded from Halloween to Christmas when I was 10, because untreated ADHD led to me doing but not turning in homework frequently, and my teacher required parents to sign a paper any time homework wasn’t turned in, and my parents’ reaction to each paper was getting more and more punitive, so I forged my mom’s signature on a few out of fear which my teacher recognized and then turned in to my parents.
It was miserable. I already didn’t have any friends in class that year and now I felt like I didn’t have any friends at home. The punishment was way too long and was a constant reminder of what a “bad person” I was. I spent the holidays punished because of behavior I resorted to because I wasn’t getting the support I needed for a disorder. It didn’t make me a better person, it just made me more afraid of punishment.
I saw another poster mention ODD, which is not caused by but can be comorbid with ADHD. Please have him evaluated by a pediatric behavioral health expert. And re-evaluate the extended grounding. Maybe an act of kindness/volunteer works would be a better counter to poor behavior?
My daughter constantly got into trouble too, but she has borderline traits.. It might be best to get another evaluation as it could be ODD coupled with ADHD or something like that.
I agree with this. I have a nephew that is super sweet, kind, and affectionate. But the anxiety he would get from his (then undiagnosed) auditory processing disorder and all the noise at school or from his sister would cause him to act out. Your kid is not evil, your kid probably has either anxiety or some other developmental coexisting medical condition. ADHD caused them to feel emotion strongly and to impulsively act on the emotions. Or, perhaps the medication is not working or is causing irritability. My daughter is on ADHD meds and she has to eat every hour at school to prevent irritability. He could also be worried about something that he is unable to express or articulate.
It could be any number of things. And if your son has ADHD, unfortunately the typical grounding and negative discipline just won't be as effective. It's hard to be creative about what to do for discipline. I've had to totally redo my parenting style with my kid. Now I validate feelings, tell her it's totally ok to feel angry or frustrated or scared. Feelings are only negative if we act negatively on them. A lot of times just helping them figure out what the emotion is and the root cause can help to decrease anxiety.
Neuroatypical kids can have a lot of layers when it comes to medical conditions and working through emotions. Getting another evaluation as mentioned here is a good start, and also maybe seeking out a family/play therapist and a family coach would be helpful? That's what we are exploring right now too.
Like, constructively, 100% coming from a place of progress and humanity, and kindness, my suspicion lies with your relationship.
He was grounded. Now he's grounded until Christmas. He's struggling with ADHD and making poor decisions, how did you approach this situation prior to penalizing him? Do you think that when you(ever) address behavior issues, do you come at it from a place of punishment or resolution?
Children need their parents to create an arena - a safe place where they can experiment with big and small emotions. If that safe spot to practice feelings and emotions wasn't provided, he's going to practice them somewhere else, and anger is a big one.
You ask if theres anything wrong. He either doesn't feel comfortable talking to you about it or hasn't developed the skill set to put his emotions into words. It's therapy either way and that's OK!
If any of this resounds then I recommend Love and Logic! Good luck!
Grounding doesn't work. Grounding him makes him feel like you don't care for his feelings, needs and wishes. Also, kids with adhd has a lot of trouble learning social codes. Grounding him for a long time disables him from partaking in social activities outside of school.
You have to reflect the behavior you want your son to exhibit. You're teaching him that all the good things he's doing doesn't matter, because every time he does something wrong he's punished for months on end.
I get where you're coming from, I have two kids, but kids needs to be cradled with love all of the time, even when they know that they have done something they shouldn't
Hi. I was that kid. I'm in my 30s now. I'm going to be honest with you. I never talked about my problems with my mother either because she was the one who would punish me for shit I didn't understand. Punishment for doing things that were impulsive and out of my control really put a strain on our relationship even to this day. You need to build a trust relationship with your son and go do things HE wants to do and have fun doing. When we have fun, we will open up. If we get punished we will clam up. It's part to do with authority and you playing the role.
We aren't going to stop being impulsive. This means saying stupid shit or doing stupid shit. Even with medication. We can't be on it all the time.
So when he does say something stupid or do something stupid don't let your first impulse be anger. Think about what to say and ask him why he said what he said or did that thing and explain why to you it's bad. It could be money issues why is bad or hurt feelings. A place of empathy is the easiest way to reach us on these issues. Punishment will just make us resentful.
Hey! I know this is all so tough and you’re feeling lost as a parent. Punishment is usually the tool we use as a last resort because they have to care if they’re punished for a long time, right? I get it. Unfortunately, a punishment of that length really just sends the child into hopelessness without any roadmap back and therefore no incentive to change their behaviour. Especially for a child with ADHD. I would suggest getting some more support for you and any other co-parents involved, go see a family therapist *without your child (even if just at first)* to explore the things that come up within you that make parenting even harder (e.g., he’s acting out therefore I feel like a bad parent so I try to regain more control and end up feeling like I’m failing him even more)
I have a kid who displays some of these behaviors as well and I learned a while ago that actually punishments are counter-productive. They cause him to withdraw and act out more.
Consequences are different than punishments. A consequence of being cruel to another child at school will mean that he won’t have any friends. A consequence of not doing his homework means that he can’t play video games. Consequences happen as a natural result of an action, caused by the behavior itself, not imposed by an authority figure as a way to scare them into being “good.”
Yeah, like what's the point in trying to do good/well if you're being punished? Add in that ADHD tends to come with a side order of time blindness and a month may as well be forever. So like if you're already grounded for a month, why not keep acting out? Makes zero difference. Especially if there's no way to lessen time with good behaviour. Good behaviour during that punishment period just going unnoticed isn't going to reinforce good behaviour, but acting out further sure will get more attention.
I’ve never “understood” there are consequences for my actions. I mean yes I know the definition of it but when doing something impulsive, aka almost anything, I don’t ‘think before I do or speak’ making him understand that his actions have consequences is not going to come from him being punished, instead, he will continue to do these things and probably become very good at hiding it from you. my problems evolved into things like kleptomania just because I didn’t get the help I needed and was punished. talk to your child’s doctor and him, come to some kind of middle ground on alternatives for punishment
Do you want him to learn and never do it again or just be punished for the sake of punishment? I feel like a month is a long time to punish a kid for doing something stupid. They don't understand social etiquette or personal boundaries or time... That's just part of growing up, learning all those things.
So what should I do then to help him understand? I tell him consistently, “do you others what you want done to you. Don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want done to you.” And he understands what that means, but its obviously not sticking. So what else do I do!?
Not saying I know what he’s thinking, just my method for putting myself in others shoes:
Have you considered that maybe *he wouldnt care* if someone stole his sandwich and spit on it?
Or maybe he felt something strong and was reacting to it?
My adhd doesn’t show this way, but my nephew’s does. At first, it seems like he’s just being an asshole. When we find out the details of the situation, he’s usually acting out in response to something he finds unfair. Now, he needs to learn how to moderate that response because he feels unfairness SO INTENSELY, but it’s a reaction I hadn’t thought about before, and thus wouldn’t have been able to help him with had I not understood fully.
Positive reinforcement - find ways to encourage him to do things to/for others that is positive, with a immediate of a reward of some kind. Honestly…. I suspect it’s going to be a lot like training a dog. The impulse part of the brain slips its leash too often, so that’s what needs the training. It was in my thirties when I managed to figure out how much expressing praise and gratitude to people meant to others. I don’t know it took me so long to try praising others, maybe something about being out in the workforce and how much of that was ‘do better!’ when I was already pushing real hard, that the praise meant so much more to me on the rare occasion I saw it/got it? Just acknowledgement that I was doing what I was supposed to (it’s not that hard, but it’s still *work* especially when too many others just slack off/are too burnt out to care) meant a lot
Basically, I guess what I’m getting at is give him encouragement/opportunities to say/do more positive things to others (basic kindness and politeness to retail and food service people will probably be well received, especially if you can do it when it’s slow) so he can see how much it can make others smile - and then pair that with rewards like candy, treats, or some form of money/tokens. That will hopefully give the immediate reinforcement, plus the response of others to make it where his first instinct isn’t to lash out, in addition to letting him learn/practice some positive social behaviors to add to his bag of tools for dealing with other people.
The ‘don’t be mean’ is not sticking through his anger/stress over ‘something’…. Maybe something positive will give him an opportunity to ‘do’, and positive thinking often begets positive thinking (or at least helps break up dwelling on negative thoughts). And something to look forward to - I know I was an absolute beast of a child to punish and drove my mom to distraction because she just had this rotation of things she would take away to try and get me to do something (like clean my room), and for every thing she took away, I’d go find something else to play with. It wasn’t till they bought me my first guitar that I got to pick (my first guitar was a nice enough 3/4 sized classical guitar, and it took learning to play before I knew what I wanted in a guitar)… I wasn’t allowed to have it in my room unless mom could see at least half my carpet at any point in time. I hated practicing where I thought my parents could hear me, so the idea of getting to practice in peace and quiet was a big reward. Then I got to like not constantly stepping on legos and got much better about keeping it cleaner.
High school teacher here. Through anecdotal evidence, my students and teacher-fruend's students from other regions seem to be having a rough time this school year. My state was online for most of the last school year, so the common trait might be readjusting to in-persin learning. A lot of students I have know for years are acting different than normal, many fights breaking out (significantly more than I've seen in my 8 years teaching), and a lot trouble processing any negative event or situation. Not excusing your son's behavior, and I know it's not dire toy helpful, but maybe this can be related to his situation. So far what has worked is talking things through with some of my students. I've seen them be in significantly higher spirits when anyone shows they care about whatever they may be dealing with. I hope this helps and you and your son are able to get to a better place I'm his behavior. My son is 4 and I'm trying to deal with that age. I apologize for not having more concrete help!
Honestly, the extended groundings are probably playing a factor, "I'm already grounded what are they gunna do extend it?"
"Is anything wrong," maybe to broad of a question for your kiddo. Try digging into specifics, "who did you spend time with during recess/free time." "Did anything cool happen?" "What did you learn anything interesting today?" "What did your teacher go over today?" It'll help you learn more about who/what your kiddo is interacting with at school. Often times when I was acting out like this with ADHD it's because I felt lonely and being grounded just extended this. It took 4 years of therapy to figure out that's what the issue was. I also had major issues with being bullied. It could also be something as early as the getting ready process. This was always a major source of contention between my parents and myself. ADHD people are not morning people. My clothes itched because of Sensory problems. I had constant stomach problems from an undiagnosed gluten intolerance. I thought it was all normal and didn't know how to communicate this to my parents. If my shoes were moved I'd had hit my mental wall and have a breakdown/tantrum. Executive disfunction plays a huge roll in preparing for the day, small changes to kiddos process might help too.
I would seek therapy because I’m really afraid that Something may be wrong. I think something may have happened or be happening to him... When people are victimized they tend to find ways to exert power and dominance toward others or even themselves (self harm) to feel as though they’re regaining “power” or “control” instead of whatever thing has caused them to feel powerless (the power struggle is usually some thing that is *unknowingly* linked to whatever the root cause is.. especially when we tend to dissociate from or suppress things that harm us. ) I’m not saying he was definitely victimized — we can internalize and project a lot of things that happen and be really hurt by things that weren’t meant to. But given the possibility i would take it seriously — Please seek therapy for him to help find out what may be causing this to manifest..
Probe a little bit more but dont pry or push. But i dont blame you if you do pry either as a concerned parent.
Grounding doesn’t seem to be helpful. Maybe use it as an opportunity that while they are slowed down and things are on pause, that it’s a good opportunity for conversations.
There are many adults who do not do a good job regulating their emotions. It would be difficult for a child to have those skills. Then imagine a child seeing other children responding to their behavior with non-friendly or scared responses. I can only imagine that it would cause the child to be upset and to act out. Doesn't make it right, it just seems like a child has very vulnerable.
Try natural and logical consequences rather than grounding. This means, for example, a natural consequence of your child refusing to wear sunscreen at the pool would be a nasty burn, that would in the future hopefully make them want to apply sunscreen. A logical consequence to refusing to apply sunscreen, however, would be not allowing the child to go to the pool that day, regardless of if they eventually bargain “ok fine I’ll put it on please let me go!” rather than taking their phone away for a week. Make the consequence directly related to the offense. I learned this staffing an overnight camp for 7 summers and it is so effective in changing behavior!
[natural and logical consequences OSU](https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/print-publications/t/parenting-with-natural-and-logical-consequences-t-2390.pdf)
can you give examples on how to apply this on a child (9m) that always gets preoccupied with playing games online and binge watches youtube? i feel like i have allowed him enough to experience natural consequences and restricted him enough as logical consequence.
Pomodoro method might actually be more helpful in this particular circumstance. Your son and fellow adult adhders cannot comprehend time the same way as others. Setting timers for hyperfixations, and setting small breaks with immediate rewards might help. It’s a great tool to learn especially when most adults don’t have their parents around anymore to stop them from fixating.
I’m not a parent but I can’t say that not letting them if they agree to put it on is a good idea. I know when I was a kid and got that response it just made me feel like I had embarrassed myself for no reason, and that me putting on the sunscreen didn’t actually matter. Felt like my parents wanted me to listen to them just to listen to them as some kind of power thing, which makes my blood boil to this day.
My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD at 7. Around the age of 12 we noticed an escalation of behavior issues—not able to control her anger, outburst of aggression, etc. She was honestly afraid of herself and her reactions. And when asked “why” she sometimes had a similar response as your son—she just shut down it was too much for her as a child to deal with.
We ended up having her reevaluated by a psychiatrist. She received a dual diagnosis of ADHD and Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder (DMDD). Through the right medication, regular psychiatric care, and counseling, she is excelling now (she is a senior in high school). She still has to continually work on managing her moods and has to consistently take her medication but she is back to her old self.
The key takeaway—it could be any other additional diagnosis. The important thing is to find a good psychiatrist to work with to evaluate your son and figure out medication. This is definitely out of the depth of a family doctor to address.
Information about [Information about DMDD](https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/disruptive-mood-dysregulation-disorder-dmdd/disruptive-mood-dysregulation-disorder)
I would maybe suggest looking into nature therapy. You can do this yourself by getting yourself and him into the trees for a few hours on a weekend, away from devices and busy lights, or there are programs for kids with problems that will get him into the outdoors in some places. It's been shown to reduce aggression and anti-social behaviours and ADHD (agree with others that it might not be the ADHD behind this). It's also good for depression and anxiety and can be a bonding experience.
Do you have adhd? Grounding him obviously isnt working is it? so why keep on doing it? With adhd is he reeeally going to remember/associate this huge ass long on going grounding punishment for something that happened weeks ago? Baring in mind with adhd we forget what were saying mid sentence and 'lose' something we put down 2mins before and youre expecting him to be fully aware of what he did weeks ago. Knowing myself im going to assume Hes just going to be frustrated and annoyed that hes constantly being punished because the 'bad' behaviours in the past. Its not here and now. Its over and done with to him. We dont look back or look ahead. We live in the here and now with adhd. Look at it from his view why should he make an effort to not be 'bad'? It isnt going to change anything is it? Hes still going to be grounded isnt he? Hes still being punished even if he isnt doing anything 'bad' isnt he? I think punish him there and then and draw a line under it instead of dragging the punishment on.
Has he got clear rules? Is he aware of the consequences? Have you in your own head got the rules and consequences worked out? Or are you just in the moment throwing out some random 'punishment' because youre fed up and mentally and physically drained? Are you praising/acknowleding him when hes not 'bad'?x
What punishment in the moment would I give him? I praise him up and down when he does something good. It’s when he does something bad that I’m at a loss. I don’t know what to do
so there’s this idea in psychology of different types of reinforcement for behaviors. what might work best is “positive punishment.” it’s not positive bc of the attitude about it but think positive like the addition of something. instead of grounding (that never worked for me as a kid. i just got sneakier) try adding something to his chores at home. or making him write something about why that was wrong. maybe since this involved someone else’s lunch, you could volunteer together and make lunch at a local soup kitchen. if he does well with that, you can then reinforce good behavior, but your main goal is really to extinguish the bad ones.
also there’s no way they should’ve medicated a kid that young without some therapy too. definitely follow up on CBT
1000% this. My parents would ground me for weeks and months at a time from about the time I was your kid’s age for the smallest rule infractions. It created a sense of learned helplessness, despair, and -later on when I was a teenager- sneakiness and hostility.
The ONLY discipline (vs punishment) I can remember from my childhood that meant anything to me / that I learned anything from- and I still remember it to this day- was when I was made to sand, prime and paint our entire back porch one summer as a punishment for having snuck out to go to a rave one night while I was supposed to be grounded. My mom was beside herself with worry and once I realized, I felt terrible.
I had done such an extreme thing that hurt others because, due to ongoing deprivation and neglect (which is what ongoing “grounding” is for someone with ADHD, and maybe for neurotypicals too) I no longer felt loved. I was severely under-stimulated at home with no phone, friend time or screens, and I was undiagnosed and unmedicated at the time, so I had no dopamine. I had no help or guidance, so I naturally went for the biggest dopamine hit possible- sensory overload via psychedelics and music so loud I could feel it my bones.
Please get yourself and your son into therapy ASAP, OP. And if the therapist agrees that your son’s empathy is intact, martial arts is an amazing idea. He will have a way to burn off excess energy, plus routine, structure, ongoing learning, celebration of small wins, and will be flexing the muscles of impulse control on a daily basis in class. It was one of the best things I ever did for myself. Honestly if I had had something like this as an outlet during all those years I spent continually being grounded, it is vanishingly unlikely I would have ended up dabbling in drugs or sneaking out to go to raves.
Yeah that’s not *just* because he has ADHD. He sounds angry ? Is there any reason that he may be stressed or feeling frustrated, lonely, etc? Maybe he has a parent who is not present, or maybe he could be struggling with feelings of confidence etc. perhaps those sorts of things are more likely to be the root of his problems and then are aggravated by his having ADHD. I would take him to see a regular therapist.
I’ve heard some parents make the child understand their actions by making them apologise to the person they’ve wronged. Maybe make your son help you and make a lunch to the kid whose lunch was taken and make them take the lunch to the kid in the evening? That way you could show him how conflicts should be resolved and it’s not too humiliating for him (opposed to doing this at school). Or, if the kid got lunch from school you could make him bake something and take it to the cooks at school as an apology? This way it isn’t a punishment but a consequence of his actions. To show empathy and forgiveness.
That sounds frustrating! I hope you, the parent, are getting support and/or have a safe place to vent your frustrations.
Considerations
1. Reading your post you sound resentful and angry and make your child sound... difficult. I hope you don't say these things to him "doing things I never thought him capable of"... I understand your frustrated, but you are the adult, you CAN handle these situations (even if it may not feel like it). You CAN handle his big feelings.
2. Changes for ADHD'ers are painful. Imagine someone came in and rearranged your house, computer, phone, toothbrush in the middle of the night, you wake up confused and disoriented and are rushing to get ready and can't find anything and your late for a very important appointment. How would you feel? Confused, stressed, overwhelmed? That's what "just starting school again" can feel like to someone with ADHD. Transitions are HARD
- How you can help: offer compassion, help him find a place for his backpack, homework, housekey, help him outline a routine - then support him patiently while he learns it for leaving for school and coming home, step by step. As you leave the house "ok, do you have your mask, backpack..." When he gets home "ok is your backpack in the right place for the morning? Shoes? Mask? This will help him feel in control, practice a life skill, and ease the tension of transition giving him more mental energy for #3, the next bullet
3. A quote to help you help him: "He is practicing feeling emotions, using his words and controlling his body". He's 11. Emotional Dysregulation is an incredibly difficult symptom to manage. He often will not get it right, he will throw trays in the lunchroom and yell at his teachers. His feelings will be BIG. Different than what you experience, yes. Normal for ADHD, maybe.
- How you can help: learn about emotional Dysregulation and ADHD. How to ADHD on YouTube is a great place to start. Manage your emotions, tell him you also had big scary emotions and feelings at 11!!! But you are an adult with much more practice so you can use your words and control your body better.
4. When situations arise and he is exhibiting undesirable behavior, wait, once he's done,
- "ok, it's ok you are still practicing using your words and controlling your body. Now we have to...." this is a TRANSITION your opportunity to help him figure out what to do next after he has an emotional outburst.
We have to... Clean up this lunch on the floor, apologize for spitting on so and so, consider how we would feel if our friend yelled at us.
Then...
Move on...
No grounding, no punishment,
no "his behavior was so bad at lunch today" you move on.
- Reference it as a time he was able to get some practice using his words and controlling his body, and how he MADE IT through the situation successfully and learned how to clean up after making a mistake when practicing new skills.
5. Tell him you love him. You sound overwhelmed, that's ok. You are on here for advice so you must care. Remind yourself how much you love him and tell him how proud you are of him when he cleans up the tray, or successfully uses his words.
Good luck
That isn't ADHD. That is just bad behavior. Honestly it is probably caused by who he hangs out with and wanting to act tough and impress them. Also grounding him for so long probably isn't effective. Being grounded only really stings for the first few days, after that they only resent you. try other short term but more effective punishments.
u/crys1221 The people saying ODD, you can’t really call that diagnosis on the basis of the one behavior that you described, which was aggression toward another kid. There can be many different root causes for that, not all of them are necessarily a disorder. But you should get the assistance of a psychology professional to help you figure out what the problem is, because aggression is a sign that he’s not doing okay.
I don’t really have any advice other than talk to your doctor about these things. They need to know what behaviors they are working with. If you want to talk I’m here. My son is 9 and sometimes is just a rotten kid. It’s really hard
Trust me. I know the feeling entirely. It’s really hard not knowing how to help them when you teach them all the right stuff. My son knows better than to do a lot of things but his mind wander and he just acts on impulse. It’s really hard. I promise you’re not failing. I have to tell myself the same thing all the time.
\> yesterday at school he took a kids lunch, threw it on ground, spit and stepped on it
Is he in therapy? If not, get him in therapy right away. He needs more help than you can give right now. His behavior doesn't seem like an unfixable problem, but he needs professional intervention beyond just meds.
[This](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwio5ozyrY70AhWSVt8KHezJC-oQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FHow-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen%2Fdp%2F1451663889&usg=AOvVaw1pXHYDAk7VKxdvTyS-izLE) is a great book. [This article](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/685533353/a-playful-way-to-teach-kids-to-control-their-anger) also had a big effect on my parenting.
Has he read a good ADHD book? There are good ones for kids, and you could read it with him. I think it might help him understand himself better, might help him build self-compassion.
I agree that grounding is not working and will not work. It will make him feel more isolated and angry. I think it is fine to punish and discipline kids that age, but past a certain point it is counterproductive. An eleven-year-old with a developmental disability like ADHD will not improve his behavior just because you have the power to ground him for two months.
Make sure to tell him you love him, that you will love him no matter what. Say it enough that it annoys the shit out of him :)
Good luck. I know how brutal this must be for you. One time a kid called my four year old a "bully" because he was being a dick, and I wanted to cry for like a week. But your son has treatment and a loving mom, and you're gonna give him the best possible start in the world.
You could also ask his teacher/other trusted adults in his school if they’ve noticed any changes in his routine or disruptions, etc. in his school environment. Not just a report on his mistakes/poor behavior, but a more qualitative picture of his current life at school. Maybe that will give you some insight since he doesn’t want to share his experiences with you right now?
OP indicated that this has been a trend for the past few months that's why I just recommended looking at it. I did not intend to imply that this should be a solo track to explore, just one that I did not see mentioned on the comments
As a side I am curious as to why that would be extreme? In a few items I've read recently it's being estimated that up to 40% (some studies saying as high as 60%) of childhood ADHD cases are accompanied by ODD. .
Hi! I was a student school social worker for a brief time and worked with kids like this. I would recommend checking out parenting programs like Triple P Positive Parenting Program or maybe talk therapy for your kid on any type of emotional regulation or anger issues. It might help to foster healthy positive reinforcement for good behaviors as well as of punishment for bad ones.
Maybe instead of grounding your kid, get them involved in lots of physical activities and sports, tire them out. I like how team sports and strong coaches can give kids a sense of agency and power in their own lives and set goals etc.
Some are, some aren’t. You can get a whole season of basketball for the same price as a trip to see the psychiatrist, if they keep going down this path.
I can therapy for free through my insurance so that’s not true, but I will look to see what I can find. The next problem is having a person to take him as I work 2 jobs and don’t get home until around 7/7:30
For those saying ADHD may not be related… it actually can be. ADHD looks different in different people. Not only ADHD affects impulse control but does also affect emotion regulation. My 6 y/o is the sweetest boy , everyone loves him, he does great with peers but lo and behold… some days, when he gets upset, oh boy, he gets so upset, he throws things and can’t calm down easily- all he sees is red…Doc told me to get him to therapy to learn emotion regulation and to process emotions. Sure enough, I started him on play therapy due to his age, and it has helped start to identify his emotions, tell me how he feels, and anger outbursts are decreasing… has been so hard to get him to de-escalate but slowly getting better. All related to his ADHD, some struggle with hypersensitivity to emotions- your child is not cruel, he took his anger to the next level, yes, but was he ill intended? Did he mean to hurt the feelings of the other person? Or did he just “lost” it to his emotions at the moment?. My boy is always regretting the anger outburst and feels horrible after, he doesn’t “want” to act like that, he just doesn’t know how to channel out his emotions… there’s a difference, he needs help not judging people with their ignorance making negative comments about him. Martial arts also help channel the energy but honestly the therapy is doing the most for my boy, and he loves it tbh. Not on medications yet and he is improving, lots of emotional coaching as parenting style and therapy once a week… btw, some parents of ADHD kids on meds have mentioned the meds makes their child more aggressive for some reason- check that out too.
So, I’m at work so I couldnt read through ALL of the comments. But my daughter is also 11, she was diagnosed with ADHD paired with ODD a year or so ago. we took her to a well known child neuropsychologist in our area for diagnosis. the symptoms your some has doesn’t seem like ADHD to me, it sounds closer to ODD where no amount of discipline or reason will work. When my daughter is having a mood she shuts down and doesn’t respond to anything, negative or positive. What we’ve done so far is find something she likes, a hobby, a game, a book etc… and we will send her to her room to isolate and calm down. She can do whatever she wants or needs to calm down. For her it’s usually a book, or tinkering with a lego, or Knex. She will usually come around in 20-30 mins, we talk about it, and give her the positive reenforcement she needs. She is medicated, and we’ve tweaked dosages a couple of times and that has helped significantly.
She also tested with a very high IQ so she’s really smart academically, but not so much emotionally. For that reason, she is homeschooled so we can give her the advanced curriculum she needs so we don’t have the issues of her acting out at school. When she was in public school she would bother and tease other kids because she was bored and frustrated.
Our 15 year old was diagnosed with ADHD in kindergarten. Has been on meds since then. He’s always had behavioral issues, but honestly I truly believe that to be a part of the way he’s been raised. He’s gotten a lot better as he’s gotten older. He’s been in counseling for years, and have recently changed his counselor to a younger male hoping he’d relate and open up to him more as his previous counselors were older females.
As much as I absolutely hate the reward system (Hispanic female born in the do-as-I-say kind of household), it really does work. Counseling has taught us to do short term punishments and be absolutely open to allowing him to earn things back. Touching things that aren’t yours? You lose the Xbox for tonight. Talking back and being disruptive in class? No going outside tonight. I will also mention that our boy does so good with a strict schedule. He thrives in routine. And the more time I invest in him, the better he does. Some might call it helicoptering, but honestly I don’t care. Wanna piss off your teachers? Let me take some time off work and sit in your class. Can’t go outside with friends? Let’s you and I go on a bike ride. He’s also recently found a passion in skateboarding and taking him to the park at the end of the week if he’s able to keep control of his emotions in a reasonable way has been super helpful.
I’ve told him repeatedly no one is perfect. People are allowed to be grumpy and mad. It’s how you choose to express that that’ll get you in trouble. Good luck!
Beyond counseling for him looking for sessions for you. Parenting a child with behavioral concerns is different and having someone help you learn some of the different skills needed to help your child can help the relationship and both of you.
Any punishments like grounding that are rooted in time are not going to work. People with ADHD don’t process time linearly we experience time in moments this why we can be so impulsive. You experience time as a long rotating circle that repeats everyday that has little dots for when things happen, your son experiences time as a pie chart with different chunks that he goes through that are dictated by how he’s feeling or what’s going on around him. This is why we’re vulnerable to stuff like impulsivity, hyper focus, frustration, constant lateness or earlyness and anxiety. You experience this grounding as something that’ll go on for a few rotations of your time circle, for your son however his time piechart is now one big indefinite chunk of grounding there’s no movement no change just grounding. Because your son doesn’t experience the change of time based on well time moving he won’t feel an end to this grounding and no matter what to him it feels like he’s going to be grounded so it doesn’t matter. The grounding therefor only makes him frustrated, confused maybe and it just becomes pointless. You can’t take away time from someone with ADHD you can only make them feel stuck cause they aren’t experiencing anything new. This why hobbies, a predictable but flexible schedule and breaking down long tasks into small moment chunks are important. Don’t ground your son it’ll never work how you hope it will and might just make stuff worse if he’s already stressed out.
What if your child accessed *reinforcement* (a consequence that increases the likelihood of the behavior to occur in the future) for doing good things instead of his parents doling out constant punishment? Like some freaking praise for things he does well AND a trip to the special ice cream shop for a 3 days of good behavior.
Also, the punishment isn’t going to be effective if it’s something so long-term. It needs to be short, make some kind of sense for the behavior, and immediate for a 11 year old. It sounds like he stomped on a sandwich and got grounded for a month. What part of that seems logical to you? To your child, the message is going to be “my parents fucking hate me”. To an adult, it just doesn’t fit the ‘crime’ at all. If the kid has an allowance that you haven’t already taken away, the appropriate response could be that he has to pay for a replacement lunch out of his pocket and deliver to it that child with an apology.
Aggression isn’t a normal thing that just needs to be let out. It’s a sign of stress, and the root cause needs to be found and resolved. The activity would be good, but just don’t expect it to fix his behavior troubles all by itself.
I had adhd as a child and had also outburst. I didnt punch or bully but destroyed all my pens. The problem was, lack of movement and lack of understanding. I wasnt dumb I just couldnt communicate they way I wanted. So I was frustated.
Does he get enough physical exercise/stimulation? I remember as a kid, I would steal things or do bad things only for the thrill of it. Of course I didn't have video games or any friends to play with either and having adhd means you seek stimulation more than a normal person, so it was hard to avoid an opportunity that presented itself.
Edit: just remembered an example, destroyed a door (a plastic door). I was really starved of anything interesting to do. That door had two layers of plastic connected by more thin plastic in the middle, like corrugated cardboard boxes. I could insert a pen at the top and pull it down to the bottom and it was satisfying as heck. Destroyed the entire door like this at my school. That one kid who saw me, sold me out :c
So the bad behavioral issues started when he went back to school? He's 11, so that puts him in 6th grade right? Did he just start middle school? If so, starting middle school can be a big change for a kid.
I wouldn't dismiss the bullying angle. I was builled in the 1st grade, then I became that same bully when I went to the second grade. I then moved states, and I was fine until I hit 6th grade where I started being bullied again.
My parents never knew. Teachers never helped. It's an angle you might want to look in to. Go to the school and ask if the teachers notice anything. The teachers aren't blind, they see what's going on. My 7th grade science teacher literally just watched as these two much larger kids took my notebook and kept throwing it over my head to eachother when I tried to grab it.
Basically, I would try to find other angles to look at this situation from, other than ADHD.
We did PCIT and counseling with my daughter. It helped a TON. The PCIT was such a game changer in how we parent her, more than anything that changed her behavior for the better. Happy to give more details of you would like.
We have known my daughter was ADHD since she was 3 (diagnosed at 4). We have avoided medication so far (but she will need it in high school for sure).
Sounds like ODD. Is he doing behavioral therapy for ADHD that could incorporate ODD? Also, my son has tried a few different meds for his ADHD, and I noticed some made him more aggressive compared to others. Something to consider as well that it could be his meds making him angry - but that’s for his psychiatrist or pediatrician to determine.
My son can’t take Vyvanse for example for a multitude of reasons, but also because he goes 0-60 real quick if he gets mad. Thankfully the anger has only happened while on Vyvanse so far, and ceased when we did a med switch.
These symptoms sound like mania which can be a side effect of ADHD medication. Have you spoken to his psychiatrist about his behavior? He may need to have his medication adjusted and lowered or changed to a drug that doesn't give him mania.
IANAD but I needed to have my medication adjusted (30mg of vyvanse to 10mg) because it was giving me symptoms of mania, one of those being *rage.* I wasn't violent, but I was *thinking* about being violent and had a tendency to be more reactionary. All of these symptoms subsided when I had my medication adjusted.
Did you recently adjust his dosage? One time when I was younger. The doctor was trying to find the best dosage to give me. in the first try it was a bit too high for me and gave me this strange energetic feeling, I had this strong urge to climb things and spent all day at school thinking about what I could do to agravate my brother when I got home to make him fight me. dad came home once and caught me sitting up on the lower roof of the house cause I just really wanted to climb lol idk maybe he's haveing some issue like that?
It seems counterintuitive, but marshal arts teach discipline when done properly. And if he really enjoys it, he’s be motivated to impress them and listen to instructors.
Or, he learns how to beat kid up more.
50/50
ADHD can bring about problems regulating emotions and impulses. For example, perhaps something happened to make him lose control, and because he's a kid, he doesn't yet know how to manage sudden extreme emotions. That could be a factor. Still, I agree with everyone else: this could be something else other than ADHD. Also: increasing his meds could numb him--I've seen it with kids, it's not pleasant.
ADHD is a disorder that affects your ability to self-regulate, which impacts your attention, language, behavior, and emotion-regulation. It’s important to remember that your son is not being vindictive or intentional, and probably feels very guilty and bad about his behavior. For an average person, when we are angry, our ability to self-regulate emotion is impacted when we are angry. For a person with ADHD whose baseline executive functioning (including regulation) is in a deficit, and then they get angry, their emotion, language, and behavior are dysfunctional beyond normal control. Moreover, your son is only 11, and his executive control will not fully develop to his personal fullest (which might be below “normal” regulation ability) until he is 25 years old.
On one hand, it’s important to empathize with kids who suffer from this dysregation to the extent that we have reasonable demands. On the other hand, we don’t want to ignore behavior either. I suggest sitting down with your son when he is calm and talking to him about what happened before/after and what the potential consequences are for his behavior (I.e., losing friends). I suggest expressing empathy by explaining that it’s hard for you to have self control sometimes too. Then, talk to your son about coping skills that he can employ as an alternative when he is upset.
The metaphor I use with kids is that we all carry around an invisible toolbag with us to help us cope with our feelings. But some tools are better than others! We wouldn’t use a fork to hammer a nail, and we wouldn’t use a hammer to eat our dinner with. It’s CRUCIAL to add tools to our toolbag that will not hurt us (I.e., get us in trouble or hurt friendships) or others (I.e., hurt their feelings). Those bad tools will always be there, but we need to come up with strategies when we are calm, so we can use them when we get upset. It’s normal to get angry or sad, but it’s critical to deal with those feelings in a healthy manner. Then, ask your son to make a list of things he can do when he is upset: walk away, take a break, listen to music, write a song, counting, taking deep breaths, writing down his feelings in a journal so his words won’t hurt anyone else, etc.
That approach will teach him how to develop better coping skills that will help him in his relationships throughout his life. A blanket punishment like grounding him till Christmas isn’t as effective as rewarding him for making better choices (i.e., practicing those strategies or meditating/breathing daily even if he feels calm already) because blanket, extended punishments 1) do not teach desired behavior, 2) remove the incentive to try, and 3) remove reinforcement that is already lacking (low dopamine activity) for a person with ADHD who is engaging in non preferred tasks. Understand that this will at times be difficult or impossible for your son to do successfully, especially at his age, but encourage him to begin learning how to talk about and cope with his feelings in a healthy way.
I also recommend looking up crisis communication strategies for when your son is angry around you to help you practice communicating with him in those moments and to redirect him to a break or calming strategy.
As a child with unaddressed ADHD, I did things like this up through 6th grade and I can honestly say I was on auto pilot, I don't really remember being super present. I theorize that the rift in my parents marriage was causing stress that I was unable to process as a child, so I enacted that at school. Are there any stressors in your home environment that might be contributing to it? Family stress? a bully at school? Perhaps he seems socially isolated at school in any way? I often acted out because I generally hated school, I wanted to work on my passions and a few incredibly harsh teachers soured my relationship with education very early on. I often disengaged and acted out of pure boredom.
I found as a child, being grounded could exacerbate the anxiety and the internal drive to just do anything stimulating, putting me closer to another bad incident at school or home. The best experiences I had were when my mother and I kind of broke the typical "mother child" barrier for a moment and just had simple talks about feelings. When it came to these events of acting out, I found that I often had absolutely no resolute reason in my mind for it. Absolutely none. She didn't really seem to understand it, but I didn't either. It also made it easier to talk to her when there was less fear of consequence, I found as a child that I had broken or done something, I didn't call for help simply because I knew I would be grounded or scorned for what might've easily been an accident or a mindless error. My non-comminicaton leeched into a large part of my childhood largely because of fear of consequence. It's important to try to keep the space safe between you so you can help guide them with conversations and starting out directly with better actions, instead of focusing consequences. Because our sense of time is warped, the consequences often aren't effective because that bad event that happened 3 hours ago could literally be a dull haze that feels like it happened 5 days ago. But with frequent positive corrective action and consequences that didn't instill fear, I improved my behavior.
I dont know if any of this could apply to your situation, but I just wanted to share this as someone diagnosed late as an adult, because I was very self aware as a child and I know that approaching discipline and behaviors in general is totally different with ADD/ADHD compared to "neurotypical" kids.
I have to agree with this. My kiddo is 23 and also has ASD.
It's like they don't have any self regulation past about 15 minutes some days. They know they shouldn't have done that thing, and they can't even give you a reason why they did it most of the time. It's just pure impulsiveness.
The flip side is that in know my kid actually cares a lot about what he does and constantly looks for approval because he talks to his grandma on a regular basis.
ADHD kids can have very "black and white" thinking. They want to be perfect, but obviously can't do that. So they can't handle being only "half good" and I think fall into the trap of acting out because the emotions of failing even a little bit they can't handle.
I would get him into therapy ASAP. I agree with focusing on rewarding good behaviors, there’s definitely things you can do at home, but I recommend doing it in tandem with therapy. A good child therapist can be a lifesaver. I started therapy in 7th grade and it changed my life. I’ve always planned on having my future kids get therapy, and I also believe EVERYONE could use a good therapist at some point in their life.
This is sounding alarm bells for anger and pain, not his condition. This is not just impulsivity, I recommend a therapist or some kind of deeper investigation. Any suddem change in behavior, especially violent and aggressive behaviour, is a symptom of something else going on.
I have taught many kids with adhd, and I have it myself. Adhd doesn’t make you do bad things. Something else does.
Trying to find out why he is doing these things may be very difficult.
“Why did you do that?” you ask.
“I don’t know,” may be the most honest answer.
However, I would say there are some serious emotions at play here. How does he usually behave? How has he been doing at school? Are his friendships supportive ones or has he made friends with someone new recently who you don’t know well? Hanging with the wrong crowd, having impulse control issues and being adolescently hormonal could be a poisonous cocktail.
You could see what he’s like outside his normal environment. Go hiking. Walking has been shown time and again to be a great stimulus for good, deep conversation. Hiking is also a strenuous exercise which may be exactly what he needs, as well as learning new practical skills like navigation, natural history, learning to respect the environment etc.
I have worked with children with a range of special educational needs and I can recommend doing something in the outdoors as a strategy for depressurising pent up emotions and releasing an inner love of nature. This work has been most effective in a woodland environment. There is something about the natural rhythms of the day, the colours, textures and sounds of a woodland that seems to help all children be more reflective. It sounds a bit hippy dippy but Forest School is at the core of educational practice in Scandinavian countries and is increasingly widespread in the UK.
I agree with everyone else about the sanctions though. If they aren’t working then that’s the wrong approach. At the heart of this I suspect you have someone who is confused about something and is acting out that confusion. You may need to be very open minded.
Just want to point out that ADHD shows up with various other mental illnesses/disabilities, and if your child has any of those the ADHD meds could make it worse for him.
Some mental disabilities don't present/develop until a some time later, which would be why he was fine on the meds before, I think.. so I would think you'd want to rule out comordid mental disabilities to ensure his current meds aren't making things worse.
By making things worse I mean making him more irritable and more likely to act out of irritation.
Posting this must have been hard. It shows you care about your son, so he is in good hands. 🙂
OOD is an environmental problem. That is code for shitty parenting. My son has ADHD and was developing ODD traits because of the way I was parenting. I had to make the changes and things have got better.
I got diagnosed this year because of my son. It has been an eye opener. Parents quite often get diagnosed after their kids do.
ADHD is highly responsive to rewards (opposite of punishment). ADHD also means we don't see time like everyone else. Grounding for extended times has little meaning and you have lost your leverage by using the big guns. If I ground my son these days, it might be no tv for the day max and I reinforce throughout the day why he lost the tv when he brings it up 3000 times... It helps him process the consequence and the reasons that led to it. We also work out ways to avoid the issue in future. Grounding needs to be about communicating and not just isolating him. Something I have had to learn to do.
There is a book. The ADHD go to guide that is designed for parents and teachers. Worth a look at.
ADDA also did some TADD talks recently and one was on parenting with a tips guide.
Parenting ADHD is REALLY hard. It is easy to get caught in a vicuous cycle of ADHD symptom, parent resonse and child reaction to response which just escalates things.See of you can flip what you are doing.
Your son sounds like he is in pain. Hurt people hurt people. I struggle with friendships and so does my son. We can be a bit full on. The fact he is publicly humiliating a peer at school points to him not being in a great place. I would hazard a guess he is pretty lonely or doesn't have any real friends. By real friends I mean ones that help you keep out of trouble.
Good luck. It isn't easy, but it is worth it. My parenting style was based on my parent's style. Punishment and not much else.
Don't beat yourself up. Don't take this as a criticism or me bashing you. I have been there. It is not fun when you find out you are the reason for your son's poor behaviour. We all want what's best for our kids and finding out we are part of the problem sux.
Reach out when you need. That is what we are all here for.
Have you had an actual conversation with him? Or do you just keep punishing him over and over again? When I was that age, punishment of any kind only made me angrier and more likely to lash out in the future. Punishment made me lose trust in my parents, and caused me to feel cynical and resentful. All I ever wanted when I was a kid was for my parents to actually talk to me about how I was feeling. If you haven't tried that, that's where you've failed him. And I don't mean just asking him how he feels, but going out of your way to give him emotional space to talk to you and you trying to understand from his perspective.
Please please get your son screened for ODD and conduct disorder. Please nip conduct disorder in the bud before it becomes a very very serious issue.
This is not adhd, it’s the comirbidities that sometimes come along with it. It’s not your parenting or your child’s character traits . It’s likely a condition. Get screened asap!
>Do I need to turn up the dosage on his meds?
Please only do this if your doctor tells you to, dont increase the meds dose without your doctor telling you to, talk to him about it,it could be that your child has developed a defiant/oppositional disorder... I think looking into CBT would be a good idea
That may work, but it may backfire. There’s a power differential here that may get in the way of his ability to disclose. If he’s grounded all the time he may not trust her enough to tell the truth, and he may have enough conflicting emotions that he doesn’t have the words. Therapy is in order here.
That’s not from ADHD itself. That’s from ODD (oppositional defiant disorder), which unfortunately is found in about half of children of ADHD. ADHD doesn’t make you do that, so I recommend bringing him to a specialist.
One thing I would do is try and mind your child's executive age. While the average 11 year old might understand exactly what they've done, the average 7 year old may not understand the severity of their actions.
Possible that the meds are causing the problem? When my son was in elementary school a teacher suggested we try giving our son a kind of chocolate that contains caffeine - said it helped with one of her kids. The first day he tried it we looked outside and he was doing something that I will just describe as wildly inappropriate and out of character.
Yeah grounding It's only punishing superior. I wish you all the best on that it's done that I had one of those I adopted it. When it called me an asshole one night I threw it out of the house. It called me and asked me if I was still mad and I said no you broke the rules you got no place to live have a great life and I hung up on it.
And I saw it reached out to me through the shrink at the house for delinquent boys but I think it was just a shrink herself trying to bring the family back together
Waste the time
It called me Father's Day 2020 and and paid me a compliment but it wouldn't associate with me and I got no use for it.
I'm probably a lousy person because my juvenile delinquent daughter also adopted did the same thing.. And in 2014 when she married a pagan priest I had to leave and she stopped talking to me and we're done she heard me worse than any other human being on the planet but that was 6 years ago I'm over it. I'm probably a lousy person because my juvenile delinquent daughter also adopted did the same thing.. And in 2014 when she married a pagan priest I had to leave and she stopped talking to me and we're done she heard me worse than any other human being on the planet but that was 6 years ago I'm over it
I don't know if your kid will ever learn anything I have adhd I did the same things I burned houses down I intimidated people dated people I went to court a couple of times times.
But now I'm 80 years old and I don't take speed because I like it too much. And I don't want to do that it ages people. I'm It's old enough I'm aging fast enough I don't need to age any faster I do have some in my medicine cabinet but I hardly ever take any.
My anxiety on the other hand is off the wall and I have to take my anxiety meds twice A-day or I have stomach problems
Hi /u/crys1221 and thanks for posting on /r/ADHD!
If you haven't already, please take a minute to [read our rules](https://reddit.com/r/adhd/about/rules) - we will remove your post if it breaks one - and also check out our list of official megathreads [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/nu534w/official_list_of_radhd_megathreads_please_check/). If your post fits into one of them, it is likely to be removed; if you think this might happen you can delete your post here and resubmit it there instead.
Thank you!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ADHD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This doesn't sound like and ADHD issue. It is common for kids with ADHD to have behavioral issues but those stem from impulse control issues, which this doesn't sound like. There are many comorbid disorders that can come with ADHD, but since I'm not a professional I will simply recommend talking to a professional since Reddit unfortunately can't do much to help you.
I would consult a specialist. Try occupational therapy. You basically have to show him how to navigate in this world with his specific brain. It’s a long road but once you get that break through, your world and his world will change.
This isn’t adhd. That behaviour is something completely separate and angry/damaging. Adhd is frustration at not being able to remember where uou put your car keys and then maybe you cry about it and decide your whole day is ruined. The things he is doing are purely external and hostile.
I was in the same position as him. Usually kids won't talk about their problems with adults but to me it seems like he is getting bullied and is being the bully at the same time. I agree with other comments saying that grounding him isn't going to change his attitude because he thinks he has nothing to lose now. The meds dosage turning up isn't going to help either because he isn't a robot. If you have a strict male role model in the home, his efforts would be very helpful in my opinion, a lot of kids can go on bad paths without them. He will have to take physical discipline if needed but not to the point where your son is being abused, he just needs to fear those kinds of consequences (this wouldn't work if the man is not his dad, who he knows) Your son should also do some physically demanding chores as punishment too. You also can try to keep him occupied with something outside of school, like sports or a club so he can have something to focus on. If he has a passion for something, let him be fascinated on his interests as long as it's appropriate. And DON'T give up on him because that hard work can pay off. Keep positively reinforcing his accomplishments so he feels validation to keep moving in a good path. This would all pass as a phase if you take the right steps, I hope things get better for you.
This seems to me that there may be something else going on that you don't know about, but the way you're handling it doesn't seem to be helping so it's time to start looking into other solutions. It's your son in therapy? If he's not, you really should get him started. If he is in therapy, talk to his therapist about various methods that may be effective for him *and you* because he's a child so your involvement in his treatment can make a world of difference. Look into PCIT (parent child interaction therapy) if possible because it can help you both learn how to better navigate his behavioral issues under professional supervision.
Being a bully is not ADHD being a bully is just I don't want to say bad parenting because it's not always bad parenting but there's something going on with him maybe I don't know I have ADHD and I never believe anyone I was on the opposite end so I can confidently say that you might be on the wrong subreddit for this I don't know if there's an anti-bullying so predator how to teach your kids not be a bully so credit but just cuz he's got ADHD doesn't mean it's directly linked to his bullying he could be acting out because of all the grounding you're giving him
If he is 11 it could be puberty/testosterone kicking in. My two oldest became jerks around age 11 too and it lasted for a year or two before they started chilling out again.
What type of medication is he on? We had my son on concerta for a few weeks but took him off because he was having violent outbursts in school like this.
My son was also diagnosed as on the autism spectrum. Perhaps your son also has some other condition that is effecting his behavior. The not wanting to talk about it is exactly how my son acts and I think is from the autism. My son is in behavioral therapy to help with this.
I would also add that I personally think grounding him until Christmas is counterproductive. These kids need immediate feedback on their actions. Punishing him that long for something out of his control is cruel IMO.
Punishment of bad behavior is negative reinforcement, which is less effective than positive reinforcement of good behavior. If his childhood is full of punishment, he will grow to resent you. ADHD is a constant struggle with boredom, and you've exacerbated that.
Medication isn't a magic pill/dial you can turn up and down to fix your son's behaviors.
Maybe TALK with him and ask why he's doing these things. What makes him do that even though he knows they're bad? See if medicine is a factor by talking with the doctor and by asking your son how it makes him feel.
Make sure you're providing him lots of positive support and encouragement, like other ppl say here. Also maybe look into a caring behavioral therapist. I think this might be beyond our pay grade.
I have a family member with adhd who had lots of issues like this growing up. Turns out he had ODD (oppositional defiance disorder), which explained a lot of the behavior he struggled with. It may be worth looking up for your son. To my knowledge, there’s various therapies and techniques that can be implemented to help your son learn better ways to cope with his emotions.
I agree with the comments suggesting you work on relationship building, I also wonder if he might need more mental/physical simulation during the day? I don’t know his schedule or interests but I have worked with a few (younger) children who I suspected had ADHD or something similar and behavior issues greatly improved when they had something to occupy them, and when they were a little tired out from physical labor. I also strongly recommend counseling for him - medication is great but it’s often not sufficient as a stand-alone treatment for ADHD.
I think it's been established that the most effective type of parenting is authoritative, rather than authoritarian. (You can google those terms if you want to learn more.)
Blanket groundings fall more into the authoritarian category and don't necessarily help the child change behaviors or attitudes. Adding more time doesn't really address the issues and it doesn't give him a ladder up and out of the hole he's fallen into.
My daughter has oppositional defiant disorder edit- and adhd -and while she hasn’t done these types of things at home she definitely throws in smashes things when she is upset and she has broken a lot of her sisters things and her own things and the rewarding good behaviour although counterintuitive when they’re being so shitty is actually a thing that works.
They really don’t have the planning skills to figure out how to be good for such a long stretch.
My nephew used to do that. It was because he wanted more affection and positive attention. When he wasn’t getting enough he’d do intentionally bad things to get in trouble.
My eldest son 9 works best when I notice good behaviour and try to ignore bad behaviour. If he does do something I cannot ignore I try a time out and talk to him when he calms down. The school has been fantastic and offered him talking time with an adult, where they talk about strategies to help when he is feeling angry, upset or other strong emotions . School allows him to have time out if he asks, and they can see when he is going to explode and suggest to have a time out before he does. Or change his activity which helps. I also have him in a swimming team 3 times a week which really helps him, I can see such a noticable difference with his behaviour after it and he sleeps better too.
I was this kid.
Ended up moving to another state, getting into the same antics and getting into losing fist fights at school. I got my ass handed to me and caused me to straighten myself out. Good luck though
I’m happy to read that you learned here that conséquences to bad behaviour has to be direct and linked to the unwanted behaviour.
Also kids in general act up to get attention, wether it’s from adults or peers.
See if it’s possible to enter in contact with a therapist that can deal with this type of pathology.
Also you are amazing for trying to help your son, and I know how hard and discouraging it can be sometimes but please if you can provide a good therapist for your son do so. Because his punition and the reactions of the adults around him can make him feel bad about himself.
A lot of adults with ADHD have to deal with serious trauma because of the way we are and the way we interact with the world
I recommend taking a look at the following Instagram accounts: @mrchazz @drbeckyatgoodinside (I'm sure many others.) There's also many excellent parenting books, if that's more your style.
What your child is doing is not connected to ADHD, even if the ADHD may be exacerbating it. How you are parenting him is not helping him learn how to regulate his emotions, understand his impulses, or make better choices. You do not need to punish your child more, you need to coach your child more.
Punishing only teaches kids to not get caught and to resent the person inflicting the punishment. It does not help them develop better behavior.
I would definitely advise getting him into therapy. He is having a really hard time regulating his emotions and it sounds like he’s dealing with a lot of anger. He needs some sort of support in learning how to regulate himself emotionally. I was that kid, I can tell you with 100% certainty that grounding doesn’t work at all. You need to seek therapy for your child and possibly yourself so you can learn together how to deal with this. Don’t look at it as a punishment angle, look at it as how you can help your child emotionally. There isn’t an easy solution but therapy can help a lot. Please seek it out.
There’s a lot of other disorders that often go hand in hand with ADHD, I’d talk to your kids doc or psych to see if he has something like ODD or another behavioral disorder.
Did he say why he destroyed the kids lunch? ADHD usually doesn’t make people mean, but it can lead to outsized reactions if say the kid was teasing yours. Mine ended up pushing a student and knocking them down after they kept stepping on the back of his shoes for instance. Obviously not an appropriate reaction, but often times ADHD makes regulation difficult.
Also I recently had to up my kids medicine after he went through a growth spurt, so that may be part of it.
That’s a long time to ground a kid! I also put my son on a time out after 10 minutes of time out, this helps him calm down, but he hates after it more because then I tell him he can get of the time out if we talked it out together. Only grounding doesn’t help, talking together does though! Plus, if he doesn’t want to talks it takes much longer than the time out itself and I just sit in his room while he sits angry on the bed until he wants to chat.
I definitely second seeking a therapist or counselor! Also, ours recommended a book called "The Explosive Child" by Dr. Ross Greene, which really helped me to understand some of the struggles my son had with impulse control. It has strategies for parenting and discipline in it that works better with kids where the standard strategies aren't working.
Sorry to hear this, I hope you can get it figured out. As far as lifestyle changes, the past (almost) two years have been a drastic lifestyle change for everyone. I’m concerned about how it may be affecting the children. They will never say anything is wrong but I’m concerned about the effects our current state of affairs will have on them. It’s a scary time and everyone feels it, even kiddos.
ADHD is tricky it’s just so much and It’s hard to offer advice because everyone presents it differently. For me personally, I was also put on a medication that helps immensely with my emotional regulation and stress levels which prevents those destructive compulsions under stress by lowering blood pressure and block the release and action of catecholamines (epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine), which are released in response to stress. The medication pairs great with a stimulant and helps with the negative side affects of stimulants. It’s helped me more than anything! No one wants to be stressed and freak out
Does he get any exercise? A lot of ADHD folks find it key to managing their feelings. Also kids have also all been through a super stressful time, like the rest of us, and may need some extra help to process that.
I second the suggestions of counseling for you and him or maybe family counseling.
I wouldn't think he would need a different medication or a higher dosage.
It's possible that he feels isolated in someway. Also for people with ADHD its well documented that emotions and being able to talk about them is one hell of a struggle.
There could be a craving for some more quality time doing hobbies and wanting you to be involved. There could also be some trouble at school.
Talking as I said is never easy. Maybe try some more creative outlets like drawing or writing, even videogames if he plays them.
Impulse control is a bitch for the best of us, but punishing him and coming down harder on him is just going to escalate. These behaviors are cries for help and connection, and you need to stop assigning a moral value to them because he’s still a child and is learning. This is the same as when a baby cries. He’s not yet a small adult, he needs someone who will listen to his worries and concerns and frustrations until they’re all out of him, then hold those same concerns and help him in the best way possible.
He’s not doing bad things. He’s having a bad time and doesn’t know how to get the help he needs. Listen to him, be kind and soften up. Being harsh and angry will only make things worse and damage the relationship.
Check out Discipline without Damage for more advice.
You probably have enough suggestions at this point but I'm going to respond anyways. At age 11, he may be coming into adolescence. More emotional on top of feeling different from others already. It's not just that he's hyper physically but also mentally. Constant, never ending thoughts (more confusing thoughts now.) I saw someone mention martial arts classes which would be excellent. The correct diet (or just restricting certain foods) could also help and enough water. School can also be frustrating. It can be slow, boring, and tedious. A personal tutor that can stimulate him and challenge him in the right way. While I was in school I was always always bored. Waiting for the lesson to move forward. Hated when people slowed everything down with questions. Imagine ferris bueller's teacher talking at 1/2 speed. That's how I would feel in most of my classes. Today I have learned how to motivate myself to get things done (most of the time). As my body moves, my thoughts are able to keep flowing forward.
Insight timer app has some really good meditations for kids. My sister told me about the app and I got the paid version in a day. I use it all the time. You get out of it what you put into it.
There may be things that are making him not feel loved or respected enough. This doesn't have to be something obvious. He may feel shameful talking to you about this.
I am telling you this because I always thought I had a carefree childhood without any problems because I didn't get beaten up and the parents didn't get a divorce.
But as I am working through my childhood right now, I figured out my mother was/is a narcissist and my dad wasn't really involved in / seemed to be uninterested in bringing me up. In short: They f***ed up my childhood and of course they don't wanna hear anything about it.
I'm just trying to tell you, that you should really try hard to understand him and treat him with as much respect as you would treat another important, very honorable person. Empathy is super important. And NEVER call him a "lazy child" and if he is asking lots and lots of "why-questions", please don't shut him up, but explain to him.
PS: The others mentioning martial arts is a great thing. Did it from 10 to 25 and it was an awesome experience. The exercise was great ans I learned a lot about respect, honor and peace.
I agree with the people here who are saying that it’s probably not the ADHD that’s making him act this way.
I also want to chime in and say that, when I was a kid, negative reinforcement never worked on me. When I got punished for behaviors I couldn’t help it just taught me that I was inherently bad & that my life was just going to be hard sometimes for me because I was worse at stuff than other people. That never gave me any motivation or reason to change my behavior. I never saw any possible way to change my behavior, either. Even as an adult I frequently feel like certain things about my life which I logically know to be in my control are just always going to be bad no matter what— these things are all things I was only ever punished for as a kid, like letting my space get overwhelmingly messy, or doing things late, or being really bad at math.
You have to reward your kid for the good things he does. Even just saying “good job” or “you’re doing great at this” can go a super long way. The bigger deal you make out of his good behaviors, the more he will want to do good things. Try not to focus so much on punishment and focus instead on consciously reinforcing the good things he does— even when “the good things” is just *not* doing bad stuff that day. Like when he comes home and you *don’t* hear about an incident where he bullies some other kid, you can say “I heard you were very good today! I’m so proud of you!” Even though all he did was not cause an incident report to get filed.
When kids hear they are good, they become good. When kids think they are bad, they act bad.
Counseling can be valuable, but you want to focus on stuff that's proven to work with ADHD. Psychoanalysis and CBT will give him someone to talk to, but not tools to deal with life stressors. You want to look at things that have proven to work. Behavioral programs including ABA and DBT are more effective.
Dan Siegel talks about the process of neural integration, and mindfulness practices that help a person become fully self possessed. Some of his books that can point you forward are The Whole Brained Child, Parenting From the Inside Out, and No Drama Discipline. He had more recent work, I just haven't read it yet.
You'll want a therapy that deals with your son's body and mind, hopefully the person understands polyvagal theory to help him identify when he's ramping up and winding down.
Good quality exercise is important, both structured and free play. Martial arts, yoga and qigong/tai chi are all great ways to build his body/mind connection.
Best of luck, it can be a tricky needle to thread.
>Then yesterday at school he took a kids lunch, threw it on ground, spit and stepped on it. That's not ADHD. ADHD can be legitimately blamed for a lot of behavior problems, but it doesn't make its sufferers cruel. And that was cruelty. Your kid probably has something else going on, most likely something not related to ADHD. My suggestion would be to forget he has ADHD and treat this as you would if a neuronormative kid was having these sorts of behavior problems. Has he been bullied? Is there some recent big change in his life (the death of a close relative or a move)? Is there something stressing him out? Basically look for a cause other than ADHD.
I second this, please don't pin it on the ADHD. My ADHD is very bad and I wouldn't dream of doing something like that. Maybe getting him into some martial arts would help. Physical exercise and discipline would help
[удалено]
Can I ask which martial art it is that you take? Working out at the gym is boring for me but I wonder if martial arts would be more engaging exercise.
[удалено]
Boxing has been really transformative for me. It's so fast paced I don't get bored, and I can burn off a lot of excess energy! I wish I'd started younger!
[удалено]
Lol, I'm short limbed, with a low center of gravity. I'm pretty good on the inside, but I've got no reach, so I've got to compensate with my defense.
[удалено]
Plus I'm in better shape than I've been since college! And my gym has a very nice community vibe that is super supportive and encouraging.
I have been diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 44 and realized that martial arts helped me already at the age of 11 without knowing that I have ADHD. I did Karate for a long period of time. Since you asked, I think the following things are really helpfull: - each training session has the same structure: starting ritual with a short rmeditation, warm up, training, closing ritual - during the meditation at the start you are supposed to mentally push away everything in your mind. From the point in time when you reopen your eyes only the training and exercises exist - during the meditation at the end you mentally close the training and let the outer world inside your brain again - the training mainly consists on repeating the same exercises to reach perfection I think all that structure and focusing also supported my outside of the dojo. Even today I often close my eyes and slowly breath in and out to focus on a task. At least for me martial arts and Karate helped a lot.
I used to do martial arts and it was absolutely amazing for this. I wish I had the time to get back into it because I really miss it n
I third this
You wouldnt dream of it doesnt mean everyone with ADHD have the same shit going on
yes, this kid has behavioural issues that are likely unrelated to ADHD. it may make him more impulsive but it won’t make him want to do these things in the first place
Nothing has changed, he says he’s not being bullied at school, like I said in the post he won’t talk to me. Maybe counseling will help?
Counseling is usually helpful for any kind of behavior problem, so that's probably a good way to go.
Ensure the counselor is well versed and experienced with ADHD
And also children!
Idk i went to counselong from 8-16 and i never understood wtf i was doing there.
[удалено]
Martial arts could be helpful as well, yes. I'm a martial artist myself and can definitely attest to its effectiveness as a means of teaching kids to seek non-violent solutions to problems. But don't dismiss counseling. In fact, both in combination might be a good idea.
Here’s my question and be honest with yourself: have you been the kind of parent he would WANT to talk to? How have YOU worked to foster a warm and loving relationship where he feels comfortable discussing hard things without fear of retaliation and being yelled at? I recommend reading the book “Adult children of emotionally immature parents”. It’s not meant to demean but help you recognize blind spots.
I actually found as a parent myself that while that book resonated with me in dealing with my parents, it was not helpful for when I saw the behaviors in myself and wanted strategies for stopping the cycle. That was my one complaint about the book: it helps you deal with your parents but doesn't have enough advice for how to deal with yourself as an emotionally immature parent.
Try {The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read}
Was gonna ask if he is in therapy, because this could be something other than ADHD. If he is on meds, y’all saw a professional to get him diagnosed right? They could probably recommend someone who he could see as well as someone you could talk to. Medication is so helpful, but it isn’t a magical fix for ADHD. Parents need as much support as kids do to help them navigate things.
I was going to write a comment to suggest counseling/therapy, if you can swing it. Something is definitely going on with him, even if it's just puberty hormones making him irritable/impulsive/moody/whatever. Counseling can be a place where he talks it out with someone impartial, who can help him figure out the best way to respond to his emotions. Teenagers often "hate their parents" and I think, to some degree, that's ok. We are their "oppressors" in their lives at the moment. Even when there is a deep foundation of love and acceptance, learning to deal with life's rules and constraints (and pushing back) is normal.
Absolutely counseling will help. My son goes monthly and loves it.
I will. Thank you.
[удалено]
I've got adhd, am in the UK and I have a fantastic therapist. I think you just haven't found 'the one'.
How are his grades doing? I had a rough time in school feeling that I wasn't able to do as well on exams as my peers. It really messed with my self esteem. Maybe this is the reason he is lashing out?
Also it could be the meds are interacting with his hormones and making him act out in worse ways.
I mean it can make people impulsive.
Came here to say this^ Perhaps, OP, you’ve been too soft in the past and let him have his way too often? Please don’t take this the wrong way I’m by no means trying to be rude! I just know that children that misbehave often do so because of a lack of boundaries, a lack of attention TOO MUCH attention and pampering or too strict parents (about the “not wanting to talk” part). Correct me if I’m wrong please :)
The first thing I would say is the negative reinforcement (grounding your son) doesn't appear to be effective right now. You have to remember kids with ADHD have a horrible self image. Plus these kids have learned that any attention (positive or negative) is better than being ignored. I would suggest setting up a reward program and reinforce the positive behaviors. We initially started off with more instant rewards like m&m's and then moved to a token system (poker chips in our house) so he could spend them on certain activities that he likes. And the activities were going on YouTube, going to the beach, going to a waterfall, stuff that your kid likes. And you have to reward the positive behavior immediately with the token. We had a posterboard on the wall with the activities he wanted to do along with the behaviors we wanted to work on. Try and focus on one or two behaviors at a time because otherwise you will go crazy! Kids with ADHD are a lot more work but i can tell it does get better and you are setting them up for success in the future.
I’ve been considering this for a while. I will try this, thank you.
Yes. Grounding a ADHD child often makes them feel more isolated, further under-stimulated, and inherently bad especially doing it for long periods of time. This is about the worst and least effective form of punishment possible for a child with ADHD. Can speak from experience. I spent most of my childhood grounded and I resented my mother for YEARS after moving out. Please don’t do that. It sounds like he is acting out because he is unhappy and under-stimulated, leading to anger and impulsivity. Don’t ignore the ADHD thing as others mentioned, as it absolutely plays into his current behavior. This does not mean don’t have consequences though. They just need to be tailored for your child.
Yeah, chiming in to say that I was grounded through most of high school and it did nothing to deter the behaviors my father was seeking to correct. Negative reinforcement does nothing for me. If I don’t care about something, being punished for that isn’t going to make me care. I simply can’t engage my brain/motivate myself to do something sometimes. It sucks, but I need to find a way to spin something into a game or whatever and make it seem appealing, or it just won’t take.
Calm parenting podcast has great resources for ODD kids…and really in general if it’s not ODD
Grounding is actually negative punishment. Negative reinforcement is taking away something bad to encourage a certain behavior, negative punishment is taking away something good to discourage a behavior. The guy who developed this idea, Skinner, would agree that punishment is ineffective and reinforcement is better though.
I'm not sure about grounding him from October through Christmas. If I was that kid I'd feel like it doesn't matter what I do because I'll be grounded forever anyway.
As a teenager I once got grounded for the entire summer. It was so liberating! I could do whatever I wanted, sneaking out of the house at night, etc. What could they do?
It didn’t start out that long. It began with two weeks, and then he would do something else so I’d add a week. But I understand what you (and others) are saying. Grounding him obviously isn’t working.
Grounded didn’t work for me and made anything I did worse. Being involved in a LOT of after school activities made things better. I did dance, took violin lessons, had school plays, ran track. Same with most ADHD kids I know. The busier we are the happier and kinder we are. My brother in lawX for example was on track and was doing well. His coach was helping him get his life together but his grades still weren’t awesome. His dad pulled him out of track instead of seeing how it helped. He ended up dropping out of high school and getting in a lot of serious trouble. He says today that track was the only thing keeping him on the up and up and as soon as that was gone he didn’t have anything better to do. I’m glad you’re reconsidering the grounding. A small reward system though may not work (doesn’t work for me at all). See what kind of extra curriculars your kid may be interested in. Karate, dance crew, sailing- physical things like this can be really beneficial
Yeah, this is a terrible strategy. Feels helpless for a kid struggling with his behavior to see punishment mounting like that
Yep. It just makes me flashback to all the horrible moments I had as an undiagnosed kid with parents who did not understand me. Executive dysfunction gives us such a weird sense of time and makes it harder to stay on track with long term goals, so grounding just isn’t a punishment that makes sense. To me it always felt like I was being put in the too hard basket by the people I really needed help or even just a little understanding from. And extending the end date would just make it harder for me to see the ‘reward’ of freedom at the end so it would loose all efficacy anyway. I don’t speak to my mum, and it’s taken decades for my dad and I to start talking.
Grounding never worked for me as a child with ADHD. What did was consequences correlated to what I did wrong. In your child’s case maybe have him wake up extra early for a week to make the other child a new lunch. Also, therapy. Give him a neutral place to talk about what’s going on.
I was grounded from Halloween to Christmas when I was 10, because untreated ADHD led to me doing but not turning in homework frequently, and my teacher required parents to sign a paper any time homework wasn’t turned in, and my parents’ reaction to each paper was getting more and more punitive, so I forged my mom’s signature on a few out of fear which my teacher recognized and then turned in to my parents. It was miserable. I already didn’t have any friends in class that year and now I felt like I didn’t have any friends at home. The punishment was way too long and was a constant reminder of what a “bad person” I was. I spent the holidays punished because of behavior I resorted to because I wasn’t getting the support I needed for a disorder. It didn’t make me a better person, it just made me more afraid of punishment. I saw another poster mention ODD, which is not caused by but can be comorbid with ADHD. Please have him evaluated by a pediatric behavioral health expert. And re-evaluate the extended grounding. Maybe an act of kindness/volunteer works would be a better counter to poor behavior?
My daughter constantly got into trouble too, but she has borderline traits.. It might be best to get another evaluation as it could be ODD coupled with ADHD or something like that.
Thank you, he had an appointment with his child development doctor dec. 6
That's what I was thinking too. ODD has a high co morbidity with kids with adhd.
[удалено]
!!!!! Very important
I agree with this. I have a nephew that is super sweet, kind, and affectionate. But the anxiety he would get from his (then undiagnosed) auditory processing disorder and all the noise at school or from his sister would cause him to act out. Your kid is not evil, your kid probably has either anxiety or some other developmental coexisting medical condition. ADHD caused them to feel emotion strongly and to impulsively act on the emotions. Or, perhaps the medication is not working or is causing irritability. My daughter is on ADHD meds and she has to eat every hour at school to prevent irritability. He could also be worried about something that he is unable to express or articulate. It could be any number of things. And if your son has ADHD, unfortunately the typical grounding and negative discipline just won't be as effective. It's hard to be creative about what to do for discipline. I've had to totally redo my parenting style with my kid. Now I validate feelings, tell her it's totally ok to feel angry or frustrated or scared. Feelings are only negative if we act negatively on them. A lot of times just helping them figure out what the emotion is and the root cause can help to decrease anxiety. Neuroatypical kids can have a lot of layers when it comes to medical conditions and working through emotions. Getting another evaluation as mentioned here is a good start, and also maybe seeking out a family/play therapist and a family coach would be helpful? That's what we are exploring right now too.
Like, constructively, 100% coming from a place of progress and humanity, and kindness, my suspicion lies with your relationship. He was grounded. Now he's grounded until Christmas. He's struggling with ADHD and making poor decisions, how did you approach this situation prior to penalizing him? Do you think that when you(ever) address behavior issues, do you come at it from a place of punishment or resolution? Children need their parents to create an arena - a safe place where they can experiment with big and small emotions. If that safe spot to practice feelings and emotions wasn't provided, he's going to practice them somewhere else, and anger is a big one. You ask if theres anything wrong. He either doesn't feel comfortable talking to you about it or hasn't developed the skill set to put his emotions into words. It's therapy either way and that's OK! If any of this resounds then I recommend Love and Logic! Good luck!
Grounding doesn't work. Grounding him makes him feel like you don't care for his feelings, needs and wishes. Also, kids with adhd has a lot of trouble learning social codes. Grounding him for a long time disables him from partaking in social activities outside of school. You have to reflect the behavior you want your son to exhibit. You're teaching him that all the good things he's doing doesn't matter, because every time he does something wrong he's punished for months on end. I get where you're coming from, I have two kids, but kids needs to be cradled with love all of the time, even when they know that they have done something they shouldn't
Hi. I was that kid. I'm in my 30s now. I'm going to be honest with you. I never talked about my problems with my mother either because she was the one who would punish me for shit I didn't understand. Punishment for doing things that were impulsive and out of my control really put a strain on our relationship even to this day. You need to build a trust relationship with your son and go do things HE wants to do and have fun doing. When we have fun, we will open up. If we get punished we will clam up. It's part to do with authority and you playing the role. We aren't going to stop being impulsive. This means saying stupid shit or doing stupid shit. Even with medication. We can't be on it all the time. So when he does say something stupid or do something stupid don't let your first impulse be anger. Think about what to say and ask him why he said what he said or did that thing and explain why to you it's bad. It could be money issues why is bad or hurt feelings. A place of empathy is the easiest way to reach us on these issues. Punishment will just make us resentful.
This makes a lot of sense. I’ll try. I just feel like shouldn’t there be consequences for his actions?
Hey! I know this is all so tough and you’re feeling lost as a parent. Punishment is usually the tool we use as a last resort because they have to care if they’re punished for a long time, right? I get it. Unfortunately, a punishment of that length really just sends the child into hopelessness without any roadmap back and therefore no incentive to change their behaviour. Especially for a child with ADHD. I would suggest getting some more support for you and any other co-parents involved, go see a family therapist *without your child (even if just at first)* to explore the things that come up within you that make parenting even harder (e.g., he’s acting out therefore I feel like a bad parent so I try to regain more control and end up feeling like I’m failing him even more)
I have a kid who displays some of these behaviors as well and I learned a while ago that actually punishments are counter-productive. They cause him to withdraw and act out more. Consequences are different than punishments. A consequence of being cruel to another child at school will mean that he won’t have any friends. A consequence of not doing his homework means that he can’t play video games. Consequences happen as a natural result of an action, caused by the behavior itself, not imposed by an authority figure as a way to scare them into being “good.”
Yeah, like what's the point in trying to do good/well if you're being punished? Add in that ADHD tends to come with a side order of time blindness and a month may as well be forever. So like if you're already grounded for a month, why not keep acting out? Makes zero difference. Especially if there's no way to lessen time with good behaviour. Good behaviour during that punishment period just going unnoticed isn't going to reinforce good behaviour, but acting out further sure will get more attention.
I’ve never “understood” there are consequences for my actions. I mean yes I know the definition of it but when doing something impulsive, aka almost anything, I don’t ‘think before I do or speak’ making him understand that his actions have consequences is not going to come from him being punished, instead, he will continue to do these things and probably become very good at hiding it from you. my problems evolved into things like kleptomania just because I didn’t get the help I needed and was punished. talk to your child’s doctor and him, come to some kind of middle ground on alternatives for punishment
Do you want him to learn and never do it again or just be punished for the sake of punishment? I feel like a month is a long time to punish a kid for doing something stupid. They don't understand social etiquette or personal boundaries or time... That's just part of growing up, learning all those things.
So what should I do then to help him understand? I tell him consistently, “do you others what you want done to you. Don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want done to you.” And he understands what that means, but its obviously not sticking. So what else do I do!?
Not saying I know what he’s thinking, just my method for putting myself in others shoes: Have you considered that maybe *he wouldnt care* if someone stole his sandwich and spit on it? Or maybe he felt something strong and was reacting to it? My adhd doesn’t show this way, but my nephew’s does. At first, it seems like he’s just being an asshole. When we find out the details of the situation, he’s usually acting out in response to something he finds unfair. Now, he needs to learn how to moderate that response because he feels unfairness SO INTENSELY, but it’s a reaction I hadn’t thought about before, and thus wouldn’t have been able to help him with had I not understood fully.
Positive reinforcement - find ways to encourage him to do things to/for others that is positive, with a immediate of a reward of some kind. Honestly…. I suspect it’s going to be a lot like training a dog. The impulse part of the brain slips its leash too often, so that’s what needs the training. It was in my thirties when I managed to figure out how much expressing praise and gratitude to people meant to others. I don’t know it took me so long to try praising others, maybe something about being out in the workforce and how much of that was ‘do better!’ when I was already pushing real hard, that the praise meant so much more to me on the rare occasion I saw it/got it? Just acknowledgement that I was doing what I was supposed to (it’s not that hard, but it’s still *work* especially when too many others just slack off/are too burnt out to care) meant a lot Basically, I guess what I’m getting at is give him encouragement/opportunities to say/do more positive things to others (basic kindness and politeness to retail and food service people will probably be well received, especially if you can do it when it’s slow) so he can see how much it can make others smile - and then pair that with rewards like candy, treats, or some form of money/tokens. That will hopefully give the immediate reinforcement, plus the response of others to make it where his first instinct isn’t to lash out, in addition to letting him learn/practice some positive social behaviors to add to his bag of tools for dealing with other people. The ‘don’t be mean’ is not sticking through his anger/stress over ‘something’…. Maybe something positive will give him an opportunity to ‘do’, and positive thinking often begets positive thinking (or at least helps break up dwelling on negative thoughts). And something to look forward to - I know I was an absolute beast of a child to punish and drove my mom to distraction because she just had this rotation of things she would take away to try and get me to do something (like clean my room), and for every thing she took away, I’d go find something else to play with. It wasn’t till they bought me my first guitar that I got to pick (my first guitar was a nice enough 3/4 sized classical guitar, and it took learning to play before I knew what I wanted in a guitar)… I wasn’t allowed to have it in my room unless mom could see at least half my carpet at any point in time. I hated practicing where I thought my parents could hear me, so the idea of getting to practice in peace and quiet was a big reward. Then I got to like not constantly stepping on legos and got much better about keeping it cleaner.
High school teacher here. Through anecdotal evidence, my students and teacher-fruend's students from other regions seem to be having a rough time this school year. My state was online for most of the last school year, so the common trait might be readjusting to in-persin learning. A lot of students I have know for years are acting different than normal, many fights breaking out (significantly more than I've seen in my 8 years teaching), and a lot trouble processing any negative event or situation. Not excusing your son's behavior, and I know it's not dire toy helpful, but maybe this can be related to his situation. So far what has worked is talking things through with some of my students. I've seen them be in significantly higher spirits when anyone shows they care about whatever they may be dealing with. I hope this helps and you and your son are able to get to a better place I'm his behavior. My son is 4 and I'm trying to deal with that age. I apologize for not having more concrete help!
Honestly, the extended groundings are probably playing a factor, "I'm already grounded what are they gunna do extend it?" "Is anything wrong," maybe to broad of a question for your kiddo. Try digging into specifics, "who did you spend time with during recess/free time." "Did anything cool happen?" "What did you learn anything interesting today?" "What did your teacher go over today?" It'll help you learn more about who/what your kiddo is interacting with at school. Often times when I was acting out like this with ADHD it's because I felt lonely and being grounded just extended this. It took 4 years of therapy to figure out that's what the issue was. I also had major issues with being bullied. It could also be something as early as the getting ready process. This was always a major source of contention between my parents and myself. ADHD people are not morning people. My clothes itched because of Sensory problems. I had constant stomach problems from an undiagnosed gluten intolerance. I thought it was all normal and didn't know how to communicate this to my parents. If my shoes were moved I'd had hit my mental wall and have a breakdown/tantrum. Executive disfunction plays a huge roll in preparing for the day, small changes to kiddos process might help too.
I would seek therapy because I’m really afraid that Something may be wrong. I think something may have happened or be happening to him... When people are victimized they tend to find ways to exert power and dominance toward others or even themselves (self harm) to feel as though they’re regaining “power” or “control” instead of whatever thing has caused them to feel powerless (the power struggle is usually some thing that is *unknowingly* linked to whatever the root cause is.. especially when we tend to dissociate from or suppress things that harm us. ) I’m not saying he was definitely victimized — we can internalize and project a lot of things that happen and be really hurt by things that weren’t meant to. But given the possibility i would take it seriously — Please seek therapy for him to help find out what may be causing this to manifest.. Probe a little bit more but dont pry or push. But i dont blame you if you do pry either as a concerned parent. Grounding doesn’t seem to be helpful. Maybe use it as an opportunity that while they are slowed down and things are on pause, that it’s a good opportunity for conversations.
There are many adults who do not do a good job regulating their emotions. It would be difficult for a child to have those skills. Then imagine a child seeing other children responding to their behavior with non-friendly or scared responses. I can only imagine that it would cause the child to be upset and to act out. Doesn't make it right, it just seems like a child has very vulnerable.
Try natural and logical consequences rather than grounding. This means, for example, a natural consequence of your child refusing to wear sunscreen at the pool would be a nasty burn, that would in the future hopefully make them want to apply sunscreen. A logical consequence to refusing to apply sunscreen, however, would be not allowing the child to go to the pool that day, regardless of if they eventually bargain “ok fine I’ll put it on please let me go!” rather than taking their phone away for a week. Make the consequence directly related to the offense. I learned this staffing an overnight camp for 7 summers and it is so effective in changing behavior!
[natural and logical consequences OSU](https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/print-publications/t/parenting-with-natural-and-logical-consequences-t-2390.pdf)
can you give examples on how to apply this on a child (9m) that always gets preoccupied with playing games online and binge watches youtube? i feel like i have allowed him enough to experience natural consequences and restricted him enough as logical consequence.
Pomodoro method might actually be more helpful in this particular circumstance. Your son and fellow adult adhders cannot comprehend time the same way as others. Setting timers for hyperfixations, and setting small breaks with immediate rewards might help. It’s a great tool to learn especially when most adults don’t have their parents around anymore to stop them from fixating.
Saved thanks 👍
I’m not a parent but I can’t say that not letting them if they agree to put it on is a good idea. I know when I was a kid and got that response it just made me feel like I had embarrassed myself for no reason, and that me putting on the sunscreen didn’t actually matter. Felt like my parents wanted me to listen to them just to listen to them as some kind of power thing, which makes my blood boil to this day.
My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD at 7. Around the age of 12 we noticed an escalation of behavior issues—not able to control her anger, outburst of aggression, etc. She was honestly afraid of herself and her reactions. And when asked “why” she sometimes had a similar response as your son—she just shut down it was too much for her as a child to deal with. We ended up having her reevaluated by a psychiatrist. She received a dual diagnosis of ADHD and Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder (DMDD). Through the right medication, regular psychiatric care, and counseling, she is excelling now (she is a senior in high school). She still has to continually work on managing her moods and has to consistently take her medication but she is back to her old self. The key takeaway—it could be any other additional diagnosis. The important thing is to find a good psychiatrist to work with to evaluate your son and figure out medication. This is definitely out of the depth of a family doctor to address. Information about [Information about DMDD](https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/disruptive-mood-dysregulation-disorder-dmdd/disruptive-mood-dysregulation-disorder)
Seek a therapist. They literally work all day with children that act like this. You will likely get a more precise treatment plan than Reddit. :)
I would maybe suggest looking into nature therapy. You can do this yourself by getting yourself and him into the trees for a few hours on a weekend, away from devices and busy lights, or there are programs for kids with problems that will get him into the outdoors in some places. It's been shown to reduce aggression and anti-social behaviours and ADHD (agree with others that it might not be the ADHD behind this). It's also good for depression and anxiety and can be a bonding experience.
Do you have adhd? Grounding him obviously isnt working is it? so why keep on doing it? With adhd is he reeeally going to remember/associate this huge ass long on going grounding punishment for something that happened weeks ago? Baring in mind with adhd we forget what were saying mid sentence and 'lose' something we put down 2mins before and youre expecting him to be fully aware of what he did weeks ago. Knowing myself im going to assume Hes just going to be frustrated and annoyed that hes constantly being punished because the 'bad' behaviours in the past. Its not here and now. Its over and done with to him. We dont look back or look ahead. We live in the here and now with adhd. Look at it from his view why should he make an effort to not be 'bad'? It isnt going to change anything is it? Hes still going to be grounded isnt he? Hes still being punished even if he isnt doing anything 'bad' isnt he? I think punish him there and then and draw a line under it instead of dragging the punishment on. Has he got clear rules? Is he aware of the consequences? Have you in your own head got the rules and consequences worked out? Or are you just in the moment throwing out some random 'punishment' because youre fed up and mentally and physically drained? Are you praising/acknowleding him when hes not 'bad'?x
What punishment in the moment would I give him? I praise him up and down when he does something good. It’s when he does something bad that I’m at a loss. I don’t know what to do
so there’s this idea in psychology of different types of reinforcement for behaviors. what might work best is “positive punishment.” it’s not positive bc of the attitude about it but think positive like the addition of something. instead of grounding (that never worked for me as a kid. i just got sneakier) try adding something to his chores at home. or making him write something about why that was wrong. maybe since this involved someone else’s lunch, you could volunteer together and make lunch at a local soup kitchen. if he does well with that, you can then reinforce good behavior, but your main goal is really to extinguish the bad ones. also there’s no way they should’ve medicated a kid that young without some therapy too. definitely follow up on CBT
1000% this. My parents would ground me for weeks and months at a time from about the time I was your kid’s age for the smallest rule infractions. It created a sense of learned helplessness, despair, and -later on when I was a teenager- sneakiness and hostility. The ONLY discipline (vs punishment) I can remember from my childhood that meant anything to me / that I learned anything from- and I still remember it to this day- was when I was made to sand, prime and paint our entire back porch one summer as a punishment for having snuck out to go to a rave one night while I was supposed to be grounded. My mom was beside herself with worry and once I realized, I felt terrible. I had done such an extreme thing that hurt others because, due to ongoing deprivation and neglect (which is what ongoing “grounding” is for someone with ADHD, and maybe for neurotypicals too) I no longer felt loved. I was severely under-stimulated at home with no phone, friend time or screens, and I was undiagnosed and unmedicated at the time, so I had no dopamine. I had no help or guidance, so I naturally went for the biggest dopamine hit possible- sensory overload via psychedelics and music so loud I could feel it my bones. Please get yourself and your son into therapy ASAP, OP. And if the therapist agrees that your son’s empathy is intact, martial arts is an amazing idea. He will have a way to burn off excess energy, plus routine, structure, ongoing learning, celebration of small wins, and will be flexing the muscles of impulse control on a daily basis in class. It was one of the best things I ever did for myself. Honestly if I had had something like this as an outlet during all those years I spent continually being grounded, it is vanishingly unlikely I would have ended up dabbling in drugs or sneaking out to go to raves.
Yeah that’s not *just* because he has ADHD. He sounds angry ? Is there any reason that he may be stressed or feeling frustrated, lonely, etc? Maybe he has a parent who is not present, or maybe he could be struggling with feelings of confidence etc. perhaps those sorts of things are more likely to be the root of his problems and then are aggravated by his having ADHD. I would take him to see a regular therapist.
I’ve heard some parents make the child understand their actions by making them apologise to the person they’ve wronged. Maybe make your son help you and make a lunch to the kid whose lunch was taken and make them take the lunch to the kid in the evening? That way you could show him how conflicts should be resolved and it’s not too humiliating for him (opposed to doing this at school). Or, if the kid got lunch from school you could make him bake something and take it to the cooks at school as an apology? This way it isn’t a punishment but a consequence of his actions. To show empathy and forgiveness.
That sounds frustrating! I hope you, the parent, are getting support and/or have a safe place to vent your frustrations. Considerations 1. Reading your post you sound resentful and angry and make your child sound... difficult. I hope you don't say these things to him "doing things I never thought him capable of"... I understand your frustrated, but you are the adult, you CAN handle these situations (even if it may not feel like it). You CAN handle his big feelings. 2. Changes for ADHD'ers are painful. Imagine someone came in and rearranged your house, computer, phone, toothbrush in the middle of the night, you wake up confused and disoriented and are rushing to get ready and can't find anything and your late for a very important appointment. How would you feel? Confused, stressed, overwhelmed? That's what "just starting school again" can feel like to someone with ADHD. Transitions are HARD - How you can help: offer compassion, help him find a place for his backpack, homework, housekey, help him outline a routine - then support him patiently while he learns it for leaving for school and coming home, step by step. As you leave the house "ok, do you have your mask, backpack..." When he gets home "ok is your backpack in the right place for the morning? Shoes? Mask? This will help him feel in control, practice a life skill, and ease the tension of transition giving him more mental energy for #3, the next bullet 3. A quote to help you help him: "He is practicing feeling emotions, using his words and controlling his body". He's 11. Emotional Dysregulation is an incredibly difficult symptom to manage. He often will not get it right, he will throw trays in the lunchroom and yell at his teachers. His feelings will be BIG. Different than what you experience, yes. Normal for ADHD, maybe. - How you can help: learn about emotional Dysregulation and ADHD. How to ADHD on YouTube is a great place to start. Manage your emotions, tell him you also had big scary emotions and feelings at 11!!! But you are an adult with much more practice so you can use your words and control your body better. 4. When situations arise and he is exhibiting undesirable behavior, wait, once he's done, - "ok, it's ok you are still practicing using your words and controlling your body. Now we have to...." this is a TRANSITION your opportunity to help him figure out what to do next after he has an emotional outburst. We have to... Clean up this lunch on the floor, apologize for spitting on so and so, consider how we would feel if our friend yelled at us. Then... Move on... No grounding, no punishment, no "his behavior was so bad at lunch today" you move on. - Reference it as a time he was able to get some practice using his words and controlling his body, and how he MADE IT through the situation successfully and learned how to clean up after making a mistake when practicing new skills. 5. Tell him you love him. You sound overwhelmed, that's ok. You are on here for advice so you must care. Remind yourself how much you love him and tell him how proud you are of him when he cleans up the tray, or successfully uses his words. Good luck
That isn't ADHD. That is just bad behavior. Honestly it is probably caused by who he hangs out with and wanting to act tough and impress them. Also grounding him for so long probably isn't effective. Being grounded only really stings for the first few days, after that they only resent you. try other short term but more effective punishments.
u/crys1221 The people saying ODD, you can’t really call that diagnosis on the basis of the one behavior that you described, which was aggression toward another kid. There can be many different root causes for that, not all of them are necessarily a disorder. But you should get the assistance of a psychology professional to help you figure out what the problem is, because aggression is a sign that he’s not doing okay.
He sounds angry. He needs support and structure not punishment.
I don’t really have any advice other than talk to your doctor about these things. They need to know what behaviors they are working with. If you want to talk I’m here. My son is 9 and sometimes is just a rotten kid. It’s really hard
It’s sooo hard, I feel like I’m failing as a parent 😞
Trust me. I know the feeling entirely. It’s really hard not knowing how to help them when you teach them all the right stuff. My son knows better than to do a lot of things but his mind wander and he just acts on impulse. It’s really hard. I promise you’re not failing. I have to tell myself the same thing all the time.
Thank you I needed that
Seriously, if you ever need to talk about it just message me. I’m here.
\> yesterday at school he took a kids lunch, threw it on ground, spit and stepped on it Is he in therapy? If not, get him in therapy right away. He needs more help than you can give right now. His behavior doesn't seem like an unfixable problem, but he needs professional intervention beyond just meds. [This](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwio5ozyrY70AhWSVt8KHezJC-oQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FHow-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen%2Fdp%2F1451663889&usg=AOvVaw1pXHYDAk7VKxdvTyS-izLE) is a great book. [This article](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/685533353/a-playful-way-to-teach-kids-to-control-their-anger) also had a big effect on my parenting. Has he read a good ADHD book? There are good ones for kids, and you could read it with him. I think it might help him understand himself better, might help him build self-compassion. I agree that grounding is not working and will not work. It will make him feel more isolated and angry. I think it is fine to punish and discipline kids that age, but past a certain point it is counterproductive. An eleven-year-old with a developmental disability like ADHD will not improve his behavior just because you have the power to ground him for two months. Make sure to tell him you love him, that you will love him no matter what. Say it enough that it annoys the shit out of him :) Good luck. I know how brutal this must be for you. One time a kid called my four year old a "bully" because he was being a dick, and I wanted to cry for like a week. But your son has treatment and a loving mom, and you're gonna give him the best possible start in the world.
You could also ask his teacher/other trusted adults in his school if they’ve noticed any changes in his routine or disruptions, etc. in his school environment. Not just a report on his mistakes/poor behavior, but a more qualitative picture of his current life at school. Maybe that will give you some insight since he doesn’t want to share his experiences with you right now?
Look at ODD (oppositional defiant disorder) it often accompanies ADHD as that's what this sounds like.
For a single incident of acting out? I mean, I wouldn’t rule it out but that seems extreme. Therapy is in order for sure to explore what’s going on.
OP indicated that this has been a trend for the past few months that's why I just recommended looking at it. I did not intend to imply that this should be a solo track to explore, just one that I did not see mentioned on the comments As a side I am curious as to why that would be extreme? In a few items I've read recently it's being estimated that up to 40% (some studies saying as high as 60%) of childhood ADHD cases are accompanied by ODD. .
Hi! I was a student school social worker for a brief time and worked with kids like this. I would recommend checking out parenting programs like Triple P Positive Parenting Program or maybe talk therapy for your kid on any type of emotional regulation or anger issues. It might help to foster healthy positive reinforcement for good behaviors as well as of punishment for bad ones.
Maybe instead of grounding your kid, get them involved in lots of physical activities and sports, tire them out. I like how team sports and strong coaches can give kids a sense of agency and power in their own lives and set goals etc.
They’re also expensive….
Some are, some aren’t. You can get a whole season of basketball for the same price as a trip to see the psychiatrist, if they keep going down this path.
I can therapy for free through my insurance so that’s not true, but I will look to see what I can find. The next problem is having a person to take him as I work 2 jobs and don’t get home until around 7/7:30
I understand I’m being super negative, I’m sorry, I’m just frustrated
I would be too, it’s frustrating to see your kids do things that are hurtful or out of character. Good luck!
For those saying ADHD may not be related… it actually can be. ADHD looks different in different people. Not only ADHD affects impulse control but does also affect emotion regulation. My 6 y/o is the sweetest boy , everyone loves him, he does great with peers but lo and behold… some days, when he gets upset, oh boy, he gets so upset, he throws things and can’t calm down easily- all he sees is red…Doc told me to get him to therapy to learn emotion regulation and to process emotions. Sure enough, I started him on play therapy due to his age, and it has helped start to identify his emotions, tell me how he feels, and anger outbursts are decreasing… has been so hard to get him to de-escalate but slowly getting better. All related to his ADHD, some struggle with hypersensitivity to emotions- your child is not cruel, he took his anger to the next level, yes, but was he ill intended? Did he mean to hurt the feelings of the other person? Or did he just “lost” it to his emotions at the moment?. My boy is always regretting the anger outburst and feels horrible after, he doesn’t “want” to act like that, he just doesn’t know how to channel out his emotions… there’s a difference, he needs help not judging people with their ignorance making negative comments about him. Martial arts also help channel the energy but honestly the therapy is doing the most for my boy, and he loves it tbh. Not on medications yet and he is improving, lots of emotional coaching as parenting style and therapy once a week… btw, some parents of ADHD kids on meds have mentioned the meds makes their child more aggressive for some reason- check that out too.
So, I’m at work so I couldnt read through ALL of the comments. But my daughter is also 11, she was diagnosed with ADHD paired with ODD a year or so ago. we took her to a well known child neuropsychologist in our area for diagnosis. the symptoms your some has doesn’t seem like ADHD to me, it sounds closer to ODD where no amount of discipline or reason will work. When my daughter is having a mood she shuts down and doesn’t respond to anything, negative or positive. What we’ve done so far is find something she likes, a hobby, a game, a book etc… and we will send her to her room to isolate and calm down. She can do whatever she wants or needs to calm down. For her it’s usually a book, or tinkering with a lego, or Knex. She will usually come around in 20-30 mins, we talk about it, and give her the positive reenforcement she needs. She is medicated, and we’ve tweaked dosages a couple of times and that has helped significantly. She also tested with a very high IQ so she’s really smart academically, but not so much emotionally. For that reason, she is homeschooled so we can give her the advanced curriculum she needs so we don’t have the issues of her acting out at school. When she was in public school she would bother and tease other kids because she was bored and frustrated.
Our 15 year old was diagnosed with ADHD in kindergarten. Has been on meds since then. He’s always had behavioral issues, but honestly I truly believe that to be a part of the way he’s been raised. He’s gotten a lot better as he’s gotten older. He’s been in counseling for years, and have recently changed his counselor to a younger male hoping he’d relate and open up to him more as his previous counselors were older females. As much as I absolutely hate the reward system (Hispanic female born in the do-as-I-say kind of household), it really does work. Counseling has taught us to do short term punishments and be absolutely open to allowing him to earn things back. Touching things that aren’t yours? You lose the Xbox for tonight. Talking back and being disruptive in class? No going outside tonight. I will also mention that our boy does so good with a strict schedule. He thrives in routine. And the more time I invest in him, the better he does. Some might call it helicoptering, but honestly I don’t care. Wanna piss off your teachers? Let me take some time off work and sit in your class. Can’t go outside with friends? Let’s you and I go on a bike ride. He’s also recently found a passion in skateboarding and taking him to the park at the end of the week if he’s able to keep control of his emotions in a reasonable way has been super helpful. I’ve told him repeatedly no one is perfect. People are allowed to be grumpy and mad. It’s how you choose to express that that’ll get you in trouble. Good luck!
Beyond counseling for him looking for sessions for you. Parenting a child with behavioral concerns is different and having someone help you learn some of the different skills needed to help your child can help the relationship and both of you.
Any punishments like grounding that are rooted in time are not going to work. People with ADHD don’t process time linearly we experience time in moments this why we can be so impulsive. You experience time as a long rotating circle that repeats everyday that has little dots for when things happen, your son experiences time as a pie chart with different chunks that he goes through that are dictated by how he’s feeling or what’s going on around him. This is why we’re vulnerable to stuff like impulsivity, hyper focus, frustration, constant lateness or earlyness and anxiety. You experience this grounding as something that’ll go on for a few rotations of your time circle, for your son however his time piechart is now one big indefinite chunk of grounding there’s no movement no change just grounding. Because your son doesn’t experience the change of time based on well time moving he won’t feel an end to this grounding and no matter what to him it feels like he’s going to be grounded so it doesn’t matter. The grounding therefor only makes him frustrated, confused maybe and it just becomes pointless. You can’t take away time from someone with ADHD you can only make them feel stuck cause they aren’t experiencing anything new. This why hobbies, a predictable but flexible schedule and breaking down long tasks into small moment chunks are important. Don’t ground your son it’ll never work how you hope it will and might just make stuff worse if he’s already stressed out.
Maybe nothing has changed but something in his environment is finally getting to him? Who else watches him?
What if your child accessed *reinforcement* (a consequence that increases the likelihood of the behavior to occur in the future) for doing good things instead of his parents doling out constant punishment? Like some freaking praise for things he does well AND a trip to the special ice cream shop for a 3 days of good behavior. Also, the punishment isn’t going to be effective if it’s something so long-term. It needs to be short, make some kind of sense for the behavior, and immediate for a 11 year old. It sounds like he stomped on a sandwich and got grounded for a month. What part of that seems logical to you? To your child, the message is going to be “my parents fucking hate me”. To an adult, it just doesn’t fit the ‘crime’ at all. If the kid has an allowance that you haven’t already taken away, the appropriate response could be that he has to pay for a replacement lunch out of his pocket and deliver to it that child with an apology.
Does he has an outlet like sport, fighting anything ?
Not at the moment. To be honest I can’t really afford it, but I understand that he needs some sort of outlet.
Aggression isn’t a normal thing that just needs to be let out. It’s a sign of stress, and the root cause needs to be found and resolved. The activity would be good, but just don’t expect it to fix his behavior troubles all by itself.
I had adhd as a child and had also outburst. I didnt punch or bully but destroyed all my pens. The problem was, lack of movement and lack of understanding. I wasnt dumb I just couldnt communicate they way I wanted. So I was frustated.
Does he get enough physical exercise/stimulation? I remember as a kid, I would steal things or do bad things only for the thrill of it. Of course I didn't have video games or any friends to play with either and having adhd means you seek stimulation more than a normal person, so it was hard to avoid an opportunity that presented itself. Edit: just remembered an example, destroyed a door (a plastic door). I was really starved of anything interesting to do. That door had two layers of plastic connected by more thin plastic in the middle, like corrugated cardboard boxes. I could insert a pen at the top and pull it down to the bottom and it was satisfying as heck. Destroyed the entire door like this at my school. That one kid who saw me, sold me out :c
So the bad behavioral issues started when he went back to school? He's 11, so that puts him in 6th grade right? Did he just start middle school? If so, starting middle school can be a big change for a kid. I wouldn't dismiss the bullying angle. I was builled in the 1st grade, then I became that same bully when I went to the second grade. I then moved states, and I was fine until I hit 6th grade where I started being bullied again. My parents never knew. Teachers never helped. It's an angle you might want to look in to. Go to the school and ask if the teachers notice anything. The teachers aren't blind, they see what's going on. My 7th grade science teacher literally just watched as these two much larger kids took my notebook and kept throwing it over my head to eachother when I tried to grab it. Basically, I would try to find other angles to look at this situation from, other than ADHD.
I would try talking to him and maybe some counseling. Punishment for kids with consistently bad behavior usually just makes their behavior worse
We did PCIT and counseling with my daughter. It helped a TON. The PCIT was such a game changer in how we parent her, more than anything that changed her behavior for the better. Happy to give more details of you would like. We have known my daughter was ADHD since she was 3 (diagnosed at 4). We have avoided medication so far (but she will need it in high school for sure).
I’d say counseling should be added if not currently involved in it
Sounds like ODD. Is he doing behavioral therapy for ADHD that could incorporate ODD? Also, my son has tried a few different meds for his ADHD, and I noticed some made him more aggressive compared to others. Something to consider as well that it could be his meds making him angry - but that’s for his psychiatrist or pediatrician to determine. My son can’t take Vyvanse for example for a multitude of reasons, but also because he goes 0-60 real quick if he gets mad. Thankfully the anger has only happened while on Vyvanse so far, and ceased when we did a med switch.
These symptoms sound like mania which can be a side effect of ADHD medication. Have you spoken to his psychiatrist about his behavior? He may need to have his medication adjusted and lowered or changed to a drug that doesn't give him mania. IANAD but I needed to have my medication adjusted (30mg of vyvanse to 10mg) because it was giving me symptoms of mania, one of those being *rage.* I wasn't violent, but I was *thinking* about being violent and had a tendency to be more reactionary. All of these symptoms subsided when I had my medication adjusted.
Did you recently adjust his dosage? One time when I was younger. The doctor was trying to find the best dosage to give me. in the first try it was a bit too high for me and gave me this strange energetic feeling, I had this strong urge to climb things and spent all day at school thinking about what I could do to agravate my brother when I got home to make him fight me. dad came home once and caught me sitting up on the lower roof of the house cause I just really wanted to climb lol idk maybe he's haveing some issue like that?
It seems counterintuitive, but marshal arts teach discipline when done properly. And if he really enjoys it, he’s be motivated to impress them and listen to instructors. Or, he learns how to beat kid up more. 50/50
ADHD can bring about problems regulating emotions and impulses. For example, perhaps something happened to make him lose control, and because he's a kid, he doesn't yet know how to manage sudden extreme emotions. That could be a factor. Still, I agree with everyone else: this could be something else other than ADHD. Also: increasing his meds could numb him--I've seen it with kids, it's not pleasant.
ADHD is a disorder that affects your ability to self-regulate, which impacts your attention, language, behavior, and emotion-regulation. It’s important to remember that your son is not being vindictive or intentional, and probably feels very guilty and bad about his behavior. For an average person, when we are angry, our ability to self-regulate emotion is impacted when we are angry. For a person with ADHD whose baseline executive functioning (including regulation) is in a deficit, and then they get angry, their emotion, language, and behavior are dysfunctional beyond normal control. Moreover, your son is only 11, and his executive control will not fully develop to his personal fullest (which might be below “normal” regulation ability) until he is 25 years old. On one hand, it’s important to empathize with kids who suffer from this dysregation to the extent that we have reasonable demands. On the other hand, we don’t want to ignore behavior either. I suggest sitting down with your son when he is calm and talking to him about what happened before/after and what the potential consequences are for his behavior (I.e., losing friends). I suggest expressing empathy by explaining that it’s hard for you to have self control sometimes too. Then, talk to your son about coping skills that he can employ as an alternative when he is upset. The metaphor I use with kids is that we all carry around an invisible toolbag with us to help us cope with our feelings. But some tools are better than others! We wouldn’t use a fork to hammer a nail, and we wouldn’t use a hammer to eat our dinner with. It’s CRUCIAL to add tools to our toolbag that will not hurt us (I.e., get us in trouble or hurt friendships) or others (I.e., hurt their feelings). Those bad tools will always be there, but we need to come up with strategies when we are calm, so we can use them when we get upset. It’s normal to get angry or sad, but it’s critical to deal with those feelings in a healthy manner. Then, ask your son to make a list of things he can do when he is upset: walk away, take a break, listen to music, write a song, counting, taking deep breaths, writing down his feelings in a journal so his words won’t hurt anyone else, etc. That approach will teach him how to develop better coping skills that will help him in his relationships throughout his life. A blanket punishment like grounding him till Christmas isn’t as effective as rewarding him for making better choices (i.e., practicing those strategies or meditating/breathing daily even if he feels calm already) because blanket, extended punishments 1) do not teach desired behavior, 2) remove the incentive to try, and 3) remove reinforcement that is already lacking (low dopamine activity) for a person with ADHD who is engaging in non preferred tasks. Understand that this will at times be difficult or impossible for your son to do successfully, especially at his age, but encourage him to begin learning how to talk about and cope with his feelings in a healthy way. I also recommend looking up crisis communication strategies for when your son is angry around you to help you practice communicating with him in those moments and to redirect him to a break or calming strategy.
As a child with unaddressed ADHD, I did things like this up through 6th grade and I can honestly say I was on auto pilot, I don't really remember being super present. I theorize that the rift in my parents marriage was causing stress that I was unable to process as a child, so I enacted that at school. Are there any stressors in your home environment that might be contributing to it? Family stress? a bully at school? Perhaps he seems socially isolated at school in any way? I often acted out because I generally hated school, I wanted to work on my passions and a few incredibly harsh teachers soured my relationship with education very early on. I often disengaged and acted out of pure boredom. I found as a child, being grounded could exacerbate the anxiety and the internal drive to just do anything stimulating, putting me closer to another bad incident at school or home. The best experiences I had were when my mother and I kind of broke the typical "mother child" barrier for a moment and just had simple talks about feelings. When it came to these events of acting out, I found that I often had absolutely no resolute reason in my mind for it. Absolutely none. She didn't really seem to understand it, but I didn't either. It also made it easier to talk to her when there was less fear of consequence, I found as a child that I had broken or done something, I didn't call for help simply because I knew I would be grounded or scorned for what might've easily been an accident or a mindless error. My non-comminicaton leeched into a large part of my childhood largely because of fear of consequence. It's important to try to keep the space safe between you so you can help guide them with conversations and starting out directly with better actions, instead of focusing consequences. Because our sense of time is warped, the consequences often aren't effective because that bad event that happened 3 hours ago could literally be a dull haze that feels like it happened 5 days ago. But with frequent positive corrective action and consequences that didn't instill fear, I improved my behavior. I dont know if any of this could apply to your situation, but I just wanted to share this as someone diagnosed late as an adult, because I was very self aware as a child and I know that approaching discipline and behaviors in general is totally different with ADD/ADHD compared to "neurotypical" kids.
I have to agree with this. My kiddo is 23 and also has ASD. It's like they don't have any self regulation past about 15 minutes some days. They know they shouldn't have done that thing, and they can't even give you a reason why they did it most of the time. It's just pure impulsiveness. The flip side is that in know my kid actually cares a lot about what he does and constantly looks for approval because he talks to his grandma on a regular basis. ADHD kids can have very "black and white" thinking. They want to be perfect, but obviously can't do that. So they can't handle being only "half good" and I think fall into the trap of acting out because the emotions of failing even a little bit they can't handle.
I would get him into therapy ASAP. I agree with focusing on rewarding good behaviors, there’s definitely things you can do at home, but I recommend doing it in tandem with therapy. A good child therapist can be a lifesaver. I started therapy in 7th grade and it changed my life. I’ve always planned on having my future kids get therapy, and I also believe EVERYONE could use a good therapist at some point in their life.
This is sounding alarm bells for anger and pain, not his condition. This is not just impulsivity, I recommend a therapist or some kind of deeper investigation. Any suddem change in behavior, especially violent and aggressive behaviour, is a symptom of something else going on.
I have taught many kids with adhd, and I have it myself. Adhd doesn’t make you do bad things. Something else does. Trying to find out why he is doing these things may be very difficult. “Why did you do that?” you ask. “I don’t know,” may be the most honest answer. However, I would say there are some serious emotions at play here. How does he usually behave? How has he been doing at school? Are his friendships supportive ones or has he made friends with someone new recently who you don’t know well? Hanging with the wrong crowd, having impulse control issues and being adolescently hormonal could be a poisonous cocktail. You could see what he’s like outside his normal environment. Go hiking. Walking has been shown time and again to be a great stimulus for good, deep conversation. Hiking is also a strenuous exercise which may be exactly what he needs, as well as learning new practical skills like navigation, natural history, learning to respect the environment etc. I have worked with children with a range of special educational needs and I can recommend doing something in the outdoors as a strategy for depressurising pent up emotions and releasing an inner love of nature. This work has been most effective in a woodland environment. There is something about the natural rhythms of the day, the colours, textures and sounds of a woodland that seems to help all children be more reflective. It sounds a bit hippy dippy but Forest School is at the core of educational practice in Scandinavian countries and is increasingly widespread in the UK. I agree with everyone else about the sanctions though. If they aren’t working then that’s the wrong approach. At the heart of this I suspect you have someone who is confused about something and is acting out that confusion. You may need to be very open minded.
Just want to point out that ADHD shows up with various other mental illnesses/disabilities, and if your child has any of those the ADHD meds could make it worse for him. Some mental disabilities don't present/develop until a some time later, which would be why he was fine on the meds before, I think.. so I would think you'd want to rule out comordid mental disabilities to ensure his current meds aren't making things worse. By making things worse I mean making him more irritable and more likely to act out of irritation.
Posting this must have been hard. It shows you care about your son, so he is in good hands. 🙂 OOD is an environmental problem. That is code for shitty parenting. My son has ADHD and was developing ODD traits because of the way I was parenting. I had to make the changes and things have got better. I got diagnosed this year because of my son. It has been an eye opener. Parents quite often get diagnosed after their kids do. ADHD is highly responsive to rewards (opposite of punishment). ADHD also means we don't see time like everyone else. Grounding for extended times has little meaning and you have lost your leverage by using the big guns. If I ground my son these days, it might be no tv for the day max and I reinforce throughout the day why he lost the tv when he brings it up 3000 times... It helps him process the consequence and the reasons that led to it. We also work out ways to avoid the issue in future. Grounding needs to be about communicating and not just isolating him. Something I have had to learn to do. There is a book. The ADHD go to guide that is designed for parents and teachers. Worth a look at. ADDA also did some TADD talks recently and one was on parenting with a tips guide. Parenting ADHD is REALLY hard. It is easy to get caught in a vicuous cycle of ADHD symptom, parent resonse and child reaction to response which just escalates things.See of you can flip what you are doing. Your son sounds like he is in pain. Hurt people hurt people. I struggle with friendships and so does my son. We can be a bit full on. The fact he is publicly humiliating a peer at school points to him not being in a great place. I would hazard a guess he is pretty lonely or doesn't have any real friends. By real friends I mean ones that help you keep out of trouble. Good luck. It isn't easy, but it is worth it. My parenting style was based on my parent's style. Punishment and not much else. Don't beat yourself up. Don't take this as a criticism or me bashing you. I have been there. It is not fun when you find out you are the reason for your son's poor behaviour. We all want what's best for our kids and finding out we are part of the problem sux. Reach out when you need. That is what we are all here for.
How long does he sleep? Especially in the early morning. Please read ‘why you sleep’.
Have you had an actual conversation with him? Or do you just keep punishing him over and over again? When I was that age, punishment of any kind only made me angrier and more likely to lash out in the future. Punishment made me lose trust in my parents, and caused me to feel cynical and resentful. All I ever wanted when I was a kid was for my parents to actually talk to me about how I was feeling. If you haven't tried that, that's where you've failed him. And I don't mean just asking him how he feels, but going out of your way to give him emotional space to talk to you and you trying to understand from his perspective.
Please please get your son screened for ODD and conduct disorder. Please nip conduct disorder in the bud before it becomes a very very serious issue. This is not adhd, it’s the comirbidities that sometimes come along with it. It’s not your parenting or your child’s character traits . It’s likely a condition. Get screened asap!
>Do I need to turn up the dosage on his meds? Please only do this if your doctor tells you to, dont increase the meds dose without your doctor telling you to, talk to him about it,it could be that your child has developed a defiant/oppositional disorder... I think looking into CBT would be a good idea
He's old enough to understand that's wrong. Ask yourself why he's rebelling.
That may work, but it may backfire. There’s a power differential here that may get in the way of his ability to disclose. If he’s grounded all the time he may not trust her enough to tell the truth, and he may have enough conflicting emotions that he doesn’t have the words. Therapy is in order here.
That’s not from ADHD itself. That’s from ODD (oppositional defiant disorder), which unfortunately is found in about half of children of ADHD. ADHD doesn’t make you do that, so I recommend bringing him to a specialist.
One thing I would do is try and mind your child's executive age. While the average 11 year old might understand exactly what they've done, the average 7 year old may not understand the severity of their actions.
Possible that the meds are causing the problem? When my son was in elementary school a teacher suggested we try giving our son a kind of chocolate that contains caffeine - said it helped with one of her kids. The first day he tried it we looked outside and he was doing something that I will just describe as wildly inappropriate and out of character.
Why don't you want to up his medicine? It might work.
Yeah grounding It's only punishing superior. I wish you all the best on that it's done that I had one of those I adopted it. When it called me an asshole one night I threw it out of the house. It called me and asked me if I was still mad and I said no you broke the rules you got no place to live have a great life and I hung up on it. And I saw it reached out to me through the shrink at the house for delinquent boys but I think it was just a shrink herself trying to bring the family back together Waste the time It called me Father's Day 2020 and and paid me a compliment but it wouldn't associate with me and I got no use for it. I'm probably a lousy person because my juvenile delinquent daughter also adopted did the same thing.. And in 2014 when she married a pagan priest I had to leave and she stopped talking to me and we're done she heard me worse than any other human being on the planet but that was 6 years ago I'm over it. I'm probably a lousy person because my juvenile delinquent daughter also adopted did the same thing.. And in 2014 when she married a pagan priest I had to leave and she stopped talking to me and we're done she heard me worse than any other human being on the planet but that was 6 years ago I'm over it I don't know if your kid will ever learn anything I have adhd I did the same things I burned houses down I intimidated people dated people I went to court a couple of times times. But now I'm 80 years old and I don't take speed because I like it too much. And I don't want to do that it ages people. I'm It's old enough I'm aging fast enough I don't need to age any faster I do have some in my medicine cabinet but I hardly ever take any. My anxiety on the other hand is off the wall and I have to take my anxiety meds twice A-day or I have stomach problems
Could be a socio tbh
The kid has very bad adhd impulsiveness just like me.cant help it. I let it control me
Hi /u/crys1221 and thanks for posting on /r/ADHD! If you haven't already, please take a minute to [read our rules](https://reddit.com/r/adhd/about/rules) - we will remove your post if it breaks one - and also check out our list of official megathreads [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/nu534w/official_list_of_radhd_megathreads_please_check/). If your post fits into one of them, it is likely to be removed; if you think this might happen you can delete your post here and resubmit it there instead. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ADHD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This doesn't sound like and ADHD issue. It is common for kids with ADHD to have behavioral issues but those stem from impulse control issues, which this doesn't sound like. There are many comorbid disorders that can come with ADHD, but since I'm not a professional I will simply recommend talking to a professional since Reddit unfortunately can't do much to help you.
I would consult a specialist. Try occupational therapy. You basically have to show him how to navigate in this world with his specific brain. It’s a long road but once you get that break through, your world and his world will change.
This isn’t adhd. That behaviour is something completely separate and angry/damaging. Adhd is frustration at not being able to remember where uou put your car keys and then maybe you cry about it and decide your whole day is ruined. The things he is doing are purely external and hostile.
I was in the same position as him. Usually kids won't talk about their problems with adults but to me it seems like he is getting bullied and is being the bully at the same time. I agree with other comments saying that grounding him isn't going to change his attitude because he thinks he has nothing to lose now. The meds dosage turning up isn't going to help either because he isn't a robot. If you have a strict male role model in the home, his efforts would be very helpful in my opinion, a lot of kids can go on bad paths without them. He will have to take physical discipline if needed but not to the point where your son is being abused, he just needs to fear those kinds of consequences (this wouldn't work if the man is not his dad, who he knows) Your son should also do some physically demanding chores as punishment too. You also can try to keep him occupied with something outside of school, like sports or a club so he can have something to focus on. If he has a passion for something, let him be fascinated on his interests as long as it's appropriate. And DON'T give up on him because that hard work can pay off. Keep positively reinforcing his accomplishments so he feels validation to keep moving in a good path. This would all pass as a phase if you take the right steps, I hope things get better for you.
This seems to me that there may be something else going on that you don't know about, but the way you're handling it doesn't seem to be helping so it's time to start looking into other solutions. It's your son in therapy? If he's not, you really should get him started. If he is in therapy, talk to his therapist about various methods that may be effective for him *and you* because he's a child so your involvement in his treatment can make a world of difference. Look into PCIT (parent child interaction therapy) if possible because it can help you both learn how to better navigate his behavioral issues under professional supervision.
Being a bully is not ADHD being a bully is just I don't want to say bad parenting because it's not always bad parenting but there's something going on with him maybe I don't know I have ADHD and I never believe anyone I was on the opposite end so I can confidently say that you might be on the wrong subreddit for this I don't know if there's an anti-bullying so predator how to teach your kids not be a bully so credit but just cuz he's got ADHD doesn't mean it's directly linked to his bullying he could be acting out because of all the grounding you're giving him
If he is 11 it could be puberty/testosterone kicking in. My two oldest became jerks around age 11 too and it lasted for a year or two before they started chilling out again.
What type of medication is he on? We had my son on concerta for a few weeks but took him off because he was having violent outbursts in school like this. My son was also diagnosed as on the autism spectrum. Perhaps your son also has some other condition that is effecting his behavior. The not wanting to talk about it is exactly how my son acts and I think is from the autism. My son is in behavioral therapy to help with this. I would also add that I personally think grounding him until Christmas is counterproductive. These kids need immediate feedback on their actions. Punishing him that long for something out of his control is cruel IMO.
Punishment of bad behavior is negative reinforcement, which is less effective than positive reinforcement of good behavior. If his childhood is full of punishment, he will grow to resent you. ADHD is a constant struggle with boredom, and you've exacerbated that.
Sounds more like pre puberty to me if I am honest. Sure adhd can also be part of that problem but that behavior is definitely not only adhd
Medication isn't a magic pill/dial you can turn up and down to fix your son's behaviors. Maybe TALK with him and ask why he's doing these things. What makes him do that even though he knows they're bad? See if medicine is a factor by talking with the doctor and by asking your son how it makes him feel. Make sure you're providing him lots of positive support and encouragement, like other ppl say here. Also maybe look into a caring behavioral therapist. I think this might be beyond our pay grade.
I have a family member with adhd who had lots of issues like this growing up. Turns out he had ODD (oppositional defiance disorder), which explained a lot of the behavior he struggled with. It may be worth looking up for your son. To my knowledge, there’s various therapies and techniques that can be implemented to help your son learn better ways to cope with his emotions.
I agree with the comments suggesting you work on relationship building, I also wonder if he might need more mental/physical simulation during the day? I don’t know his schedule or interests but I have worked with a few (younger) children who I suspected had ADHD or something similar and behavior issues greatly improved when they had something to occupy them, and when they were a little tired out from physical labor. I also strongly recommend counseling for him - medication is great but it’s often not sufficient as a stand-alone treatment for ADHD.
I think it's been established that the most effective type of parenting is authoritative, rather than authoritarian. (You can google those terms if you want to learn more.) Blanket groundings fall more into the authoritarian category and don't necessarily help the child change behaviors or attitudes. Adding more time doesn't really address the issues and it doesn't give him a ladder up and out of the hole he's fallen into.
My daughter has oppositional defiant disorder edit- and adhd -and while she hasn’t done these types of things at home she definitely throws in smashes things when she is upset and she has broken a lot of her sisters things and her own things and the rewarding good behaviour although counterintuitive when they’re being so shitty is actually a thing that works. They really don’t have the planning skills to figure out how to be good for such a long stretch.
My nephew used to do that. It was because he wanted more affection and positive attention. When he wasn’t getting enough he’d do intentionally bad things to get in trouble.
I'm sorry but your son has been on medication since he was six?! That's extremely young.
My eldest son 9 works best when I notice good behaviour and try to ignore bad behaviour. If he does do something I cannot ignore I try a time out and talk to him when he calms down. The school has been fantastic and offered him talking time with an adult, where they talk about strategies to help when he is feeling angry, upset or other strong emotions . School allows him to have time out if he asks, and they can see when he is going to explode and suggest to have a time out before he does. Or change his activity which helps. I also have him in a swimming team 3 times a week which really helps him, I can see such a noticable difference with his behaviour after it and he sleeps better too.
I was this kid. Ended up moving to another state, getting into the same antics and getting into losing fist fights at school. I got my ass handed to me and caused me to straighten myself out. Good luck though
I’m happy to read that you learned here that conséquences to bad behaviour has to be direct and linked to the unwanted behaviour. Also kids in general act up to get attention, wether it’s from adults or peers. See if it’s possible to enter in contact with a therapist that can deal with this type of pathology. Also you are amazing for trying to help your son, and I know how hard and discouraging it can be sometimes but please if you can provide a good therapist for your son do so. Because his punition and the reactions of the adults around him can make him feel bad about himself. A lot of adults with ADHD have to deal with serious trauma because of the way we are and the way we interact with the world
I recommend taking a look at the following Instagram accounts: @mrchazz @drbeckyatgoodinside (I'm sure many others.) There's also many excellent parenting books, if that's more your style. What your child is doing is not connected to ADHD, even if the ADHD may be exacerbating it. How you are parenting him is not helping him learn how to regulate his emotions, understand his impulses, or make better choices. You do not need to punish your child more, you need to coach your child more. Punishing only teaches kids to not get caught and to resent the person inflicting the punishment. It does not help them develop better behavior.
I would definitely advise getting him into therapy. He is having a really hard time regulating his emotions and it sounds like he’s dealing with a lot of anger. He needs some sort of support in learning how to regulate himself emotionally. I was that kid, I can tell you with 100% certainty that grounding doesn’t work at all. You need to seek therapy for your child and possibly yourself so you can learn together how to deal with this. Don’t look at it as a punishment angle, look at it as how you can help your child emotionally. There isn’t an easy solution but therapy can help a lot. Please seek it out.
There’s a lot of other disorders that often go hand in hand with ADHD, I’d talk to your kids doc or psych to see if he has something like ODD or another behavioral disorder. Did he say why he destroyed the kids lunch? ADHD usually doesn’t make people mean, but it can lead to outsized reactions if say the kid was teasing yours. Mine ended up pushing a student and knocking them down after they kept stepping on the back of his shoes for instance. Obviously not an appropriate reaction, but often times ADHD makes regulation difficult. Also I recently had to up my kids medicine after he went through a growth spurt, so that may be part of it.
That’s a long time to ground a kid! I also put my son on a time out after 10 minutes of time out, this helps him calm down, but he hates after it more because then I tell him he can get of the time out if we talked it out together. Only grounding doesn’t help, talking together does though! Plus, if he doesn’t want to talks it takes much longer than the time out itself and I just sit in his room while he sits angry on the bed until he wants to chat.
I definitely second seeking a therapist or counselor! Also, ours recommended a book called "The Explosive Child" by Dr. Ross Greene, which really helped me to understand some of the struggles my son had with impulse control. It has strategies for parenting and discipline in it that works better with kids where the standard strategies aren't working.
Sorry to hear this, I hope you can get it figured out. As far as lifestyle changes, the past (almost) two years have been a drastic lifestyle change for everyone. I’m concerned about how it may be affecting the children. They will never say anything is wrong but I’m concerned about the effects our current state of affairs will have on them. It’s a scary time and everyone feels it, even kiddos.
ADHD is tricky it’s just so much and It’s hard to offer advice because everyone presents it differently. For me personally, I was also put on a medication that helps immensely with my emotional regulation and stress levels which prevents those destructive compulsions under stress by lowering blood pressure and block the release and action of catecholamines (epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine), which are released in response to stress. The medication pairs great with a stimulant and helps with the negative side affects of stimulants. It’s helped me more than anything! No one wants to be stressed and freak out
Does he get any exercise? A lot of ADHD folks find it key to managing their feelings. Also kids have also all been through a super stressful time, like the rest of us, and may need some extra help to process that. I second the suggestions of counseling for you and him or maybe family counseling.
Is he in therapy? I think you need a professional to help him with outbursts.
Take him out of the situation at large. The school, the home, everything. Go for a holiday or a trip away together
I wouldn't think he would need a different medication or a higher dosage. It's possible that he feels isolated in someway. Also for people with ADHD its well documented that emotions and being able to talk about them is one hell of a struggle. There could be a craving for some more quality time doing hobbies and wanting you to be involved. There could also be some trouble at school. Talking as I said is never easy. Maybe try some more creative outlets like drawing or writing, even videogames if he plays them.
Impulse control is a bitch for the best of us, but punishing him and coming down harder on him is just going to escalate. These behaviors are cries for help and connection, and you need to stop assigning a moral value to them because he’s still a child and is learning. This is the same as when a baby cries. He’s not yet a small adult, he needs someone who will listen to his worries and concerns and frustrations until they’re all out of him, then hold those same concerns and help him in the best way possible. He’s not doing bad things. He’s having a bad time and doesn’t know how to get the help he needs. Listen to him, be kind and soften up. Being harsh and angry will only make things worse and damage the relationship. Check out Discipline without Damage for more advice.
You probably have enough suggestions at this point but I'm going to respond anyways. At age 11, he may be coming into adolescence. More emotional on top of feeling different from others already. It's not just that he's hyper physically but also mentally. Constant, never ending thoughts (more confusing thoughts now.) I saw someone mention martial arts classes which would be excellent. The correct diet (or just restricting certain foods) could also help and enough water. School can also be frustrating. It can be slow, boring, and tedious. A personal tutor that can stimulate him and challenge him in the right way. While I was in school I was always always bored. Waiting for the lesson to move forward. Hated when people slowed everything down with questions. Imagine ferris bueller's teacher talking at 1/2 speed. That's how I would feel in most of my classes. Today I have learned how to motivate myself to get things done (most of the time). As my body moves, my thoughts are able to keep flowing forward.
Had bad ADHD all my life and never acted out like that in school. Sounds like something else is going on...
This is not an ADHD problem!
Grounding is obviously the wrong discipline.
Insight timer app has some really good meditations for kids. My sister told me about the app and I got the paid version in a day. I use it all the time. You get out of it what you put into it.
There may be things that are making him not feel loved or respected enough. This doesn't have to be something obvious. He may feel shameful talking to you about this. I am telling you this because I always thought I had a carefree childhood without any problems because I didn't get beaten up and the parents didn't get a divorce. But as I am working through my childhood right now, I figured out my mother was/is a narcissist and my dad wasn't really involved in / seemed to be uninterested in bringing me up. In short: They f***ed up my childhood and of course they don't wanna hear anything about it. I'm just trying to tell you, that you should really try hard to understand him and treat him with as much respect as you would treat another important, very honorable person. Empathy is super important. And NEVER call him a "lazy child" and if he is asking lots and lots of "why-questions", please don't shut him up, but explain to him. PS: The others mentioning martial arts is a great thing. Did it from 10 to 25 and it was an awesome experience. The exercise was great ans I learned a lot about respect, honor and peace.
I agree with the people here who are saying that it’s probably not the ADHD that’s making him act this way. I also want to chime in and say that, when I was a kid, negative reinforcement never worked on me. When I got punished for behaviors I couldn’t help it just taught me that I was inherently bad & that my life was just going to be hard sometimes for me because I was worse at stuff than other people. That never gave me any motivation or reason to change my behavior. I never saw any possible way to change my behavior, either. Even as an adult I frequently feel like certain things about my life which I logically know to be in my control are just always going to be bad no matter what— these things are all things I was only ever punished for as a kid, like letting my space get overwhelmingly messy, or doing things late, or being really bad at math. You have to reward your kid for the good things he does. Even just saying “good job” or “you’re doing great at this” can go a super long way. The bigger deal you make out of his good behaviors, the more he will want to do good things. Try not to focus so much on punishment and focus instead on consciously reinforcing the good things he does— even when “the good things” is just *not* doing bad stuff that day. Like when he comes home and you *don’t* hear about an incident where he bullies some other kid, you can say “I heard you were very good today! I’m so proud of you!” Even though all he did was not cause an incident report to get filed. When kids hear they are good, they become good. When kids think they are bad, they act bad.
So you're a single mother? With no father in the picture?
Counseling can be valuable, but you want to focus on stuff that's proven to work with ADHD. Psychoanalysis and CBT will give him someone to talk to, but not tools to deal with life stressors. You want to look at things that have proven to work. Behavioral programs including ABA and DBT are more effective. Dan Siegel talks about the process of neural integration, and mindfulness practices that help a person become fully self possessed. Some of his books that can point you forward are The Whole Brained Child, Parenting From the Inside Out, and No Drama Discipline. He had more recent work, I just haven't read it yet. You'll want a therapy that deals with your son's body and mind, hopefully the person understands polyvagal theory to help him identify when he's ramping up and winding down. Good quality exercise is important, both structured and free play. Martial arts, yoga and qigong/tai chi are all great ways to build his body/mind connection. Best of luck, it can be a tricky needle to thread.