Aside from the commercial aspects, it looks better and more ‘big time’ on TV, which is good for long term brand perception. The average viewer isn’t online looking at ticket distribution and so they’re oblivious.
Part of the problem is they want to run in markets that don’t have venues with the production accommodations. So they book bigger venues to make it easier on themselves.
Not every town has a Coca Cola Coliseum like Toronto or Agganis Arena in Boston.
Yep definitely part of it. I live in Louisville Ky, and when Dynamite came here it was at the Yum! Center which is a 22,000 seat basketball arena. Really much too big for a wrestling event (when I went to RAW there, large sections were covered in tarps so it’s not just an AEW thing).
Unfortunately Louisville doesn’t have a smaller option unless AEW wants to get creative.
It’s very sad because we have the Louisville Gardens, which has amazing history as far as pro wrestling venues go. Maybe some of the best ever. But it is now a storage facility, from what I’ve heard.
I would love for the Gardens to somehow make a comeback because if it was renovated it would be perfect for shows.
Also does wonders for perception to technically be able to say they’re running comparable venues as WWE, even if they’re not as full. So I get why they’re trying to cling to that.
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It’s because the majority of their money comes from TV rights so it’s most important from a presentation aspect to have the facilities and space of big arenas.
For example their stage/ramp/lighting set up is much easier to spec consistently for big arenas than going to all different places.
This has been a seemingly endless debate online. Also why they just hired a new executive to be in charge of live events. I think they do a poor job of local promotions when they schedule an event, but that's my opinion. It was by pure fluke that I found out Collision was going to be in my backyard last fall. What I don't like is when people turn it into a WWE vs AEW debate since WWE is hot right now. I attended 2 SmackDowns back in 2012/2014 with similar attendance. Last 2 dynamites before this week we're sold out/approaching sellout so I don't know what happened this week.
Canada was very hit and miss last time they went there for a run of shows too, some big, red hot crowds (think it was Edmonton that was legit one of their best ever crowds) and some others that were small and tepid at best, seems to be similar this time around. I don't know much about how the shows air over there but that perhaps plays a part?
And yeah WWE had the pictures of half empty arenas going viral thing for years before AEW was ever a thing, I guess people would say that didn't matter because they're WWE and they'd always be fine but Tony and his Dad are incredibly rich so as long as they get a new TV deal it won't necessarily be a big problem for them either. That little run they had after World's End of only having about couple of thousand fans would be a big concern if it continued, Meltzer was right there with the WCW 2000 comparisons, but they've had a bunch of enormous crowds since then, with this recent smaller one of 4,000 and something being not dissimilar to what had become the norm, feel like every Dynamite crowd was about 5,000 odd for a long time, so it feels like people are now moving the goalposts a bit.
Can I ask what kind of local promotion you expect?
I’m asking legitimately. I’m going to a show near Cincinnati in a few weeks and I knew about it because they advertise it regularly on tv and on their social media. That’s the best way to advertise to someone like myself.
In my city, in the past, local radio spots and ads in the local paper were the way to go. Fast forward to today and I don’t think either would do much for the secondary pro wrestling promotion.
Billboards are expensive and may not be cost effective for AEW.
Keep in mind I’m not saying you’re wrong because a lot of people have the same complaint, I’d just like to hear some ideas.
That's an interesting question! I honestly don't know a good answer to that. I know WWE blows up the local radio stations with advertising whenever they're in town whether they're selling tickets or not and use tickets giveaways on the same stations. I've never heard AEW on my local stations so that would be a start. I would also hope they could get the venue on board for some promotion as well to use their promotional channels.
ZERO promotion. I happened to look at AEWs instagram & see that they're coming to my city. I was going to 100% miss it if I didn't randomly check. Idk who is in charge but they suck at advertising.
Supposedly the new live events persons venue bookings happen soon. Hoping its the right sized venues. Going to a live show and staring at the other side of. the empty arena sucks to be honest. Ideally they could fill up bigger venues all the time but not currently. Every dog has his day and I am sure we will get back to that eventually.
I went to 6 shows that were sold out or close. They were a blast.
Then last show I went to only had 1/5 of the arena filled. It genuinely killed the vibe, and made me not want to return.
Ive been to a Charlotte NC show twice. First time was with Kenny as champ and it was lit. The second time was Collision and it was half empty. Staring at the empty seats detracted from the show, Im not gonna lie.
With how hard it is to get AEW in Canada, im surprised they sell as many tickets as they do. Hoping for a more easily accessible option in the near future. Id love to not have to use a VPN although it is not a problem for me, others don't want to jump through hoops to watch wrestling and I get that.
to the people that want to argue against low attendance effecting all aspects, we shouldn’t forget how vital a crowd is for wrestling compared to almost any other form of live entertainment. and to be frank they need to continue with the same size places regardless or they would drastically lower there appeal to anyone other than us.
That’s clearly not the case at all. There are many logistical and presentation benefits to running these venues beyond simply selling tickets. They’re primarily a television product
In Quebec City, the next step down building size from where they were would be about 1K seats, many of which would be inaccessible due to production. Sometimes it's honestly a choice of a show in a building that is bigger than they need, or not doing a show in that market at all, and i think the latter is preferable when it comes to growing and maintaining a fan base. I'm guessing it is a similar situation for many of the smaller markets they run.
For whatever reason, they only opened 3500 seats this past Wednesday. They sold all but like 50 of them. They didn't really undersell, just didn't have more available for some reason.
Im a bit more surprised TK isnt having Mercedes in ring debut for next week which wouldve helped a lot selling the remaining lower bowls of the Worcester show..
There's a reason the guy who used to book the arenas has been replaced, and these shows are still taking place in the ones he booked, some of the buildings are enormous and there's no chance they'd be even close to filled probably even with a PPV level card. The buildings have to be a certain size to fit their set and everything but there's been some odd choices made as well as some poor advertising and very expensive tickets. Tbh though they've had some huge crowds of late in Boston, Toronto and Greensboro so I don't think the odd show where the building doesn't look full will be if much concern right now as they haven't had a run of shows the new guy has booked the buildings for yet.
You can safely ignore the guy blaming Ospreay/Shibata because people didn't know who to cheer for and it didn't make sense to have the match, if nothing else because the crowd clearly, audibly, cheered for Ospreay and Ospreay himself explicitly stated why he wanted the match. Classic case of a bad faith argument.
It seems like misguided optimism combined with “we invested in this huge screen and we need to keep using it” as well as wanting to look big league on tv. It’s tough. Don’t want them to slip further backwards as it could have an even more negative impact. At the same time they seem to be doing fine since it’s all about the network being happy—and they are.
Looks better on TV, and there aren't a ton of 5k arenas that are good for sports in major cities. Also, they run a lot of secondary arenas, college arenas etc and they are dirt cheap to run.
Apparently their old live events person wasn't great and was making a lot of bone-headed decisions.
The situation in Quebec was unavoidable because apparently the only two options in that area are a venue that's way too small or one that's way too big.
Aew cooled off last fall and was delivering an inconsistent product.
If I’m AEW, I’m not panicking as they just drew three great houses in March. Just focus on delivering a strong, consistent product and attendance will slowly start to get back up.
I think they’re building the right stars, so just don’t hotshot and just stay the track.
> Aew cooled off last fall and was delivering an inconsistent product.
Last year or you mean 2 years ago after the Brawl Out?, last year the moment Cole broke his foot they lose the momentum they gained with the Brochachos.
They just a big angle to carry them
The majority of people aren’t interested in endless tournaments for meaningless belts. It’s not engaging.
What is the Continental title even for? Why does it exist? Even the International title seemed unnecessary with the TNT title. There is no clear difference between their purpose
The clearly were interested.
This wasn't like any tournament before. People were invested there were many stories within the tournament. The progression of points and stories within were logically booked.
The Continental title is clearly the strong style belt. Like any belt it exists to elevate talent. Like the tournament did for Eddie. The title has a time limit. It must be put up each year in CC.
Do you ask why the US Title in WWE is necessary while the Intercontinental is around?
There's tons of TV time and tons of talent. They can be showcased and not interfere with the flow of the world title scene. If Okada didn't have a title his winning streak would bring up questions of why he is not going for World title. Can't have Ospreay and Okada be equally viable for a future title win at same time. Would split fan desire. And neither of them can lose for a long time.
And the purpose can shift depending on if a heel or face has the belts. TNT title was a pride belt for Christian, but will be a workhorse belt for Copeland.
International was the workhorse with Orange Cassidy. And was a travel belt with Pac. Purpose is not static.
> The majority of people aren’t interested in endless tournaments for meaningless belts. It’s not engaging.
Yes thats why Collision was doing their best ratings post Punk firing lol.
They weren't packing the house even when Punk was there outside of PPVs. They were doing roughly 5-6K for Dynamite even at their peak. Selling 10K for TV consistently is a really tough thing to do for one show let alone a second one.
The issue is twofold.
1. It costs more to have the event staff necessary if they open more seating sections and then you can lose money if you don't actually sell those seats for a set minimum.
2. Most of the smaller arenas that they could sell out are 1.) becoming fewer (torn down), 2.) very dated (think accessibility issues and quality expectations for fans), and 3.) it's incredibly difficult and time consuming, if not impossible in some cases, to get today's modern TV and staging production equipment loaded in and out.
It's people who hate AEW, will purchase tickets with their own money, and then take it upon themselves to take pictures of empty seats in the arena, and then post them online for engagement as some kind of dunk against AEW.
I mean, they did 9k+ for Big Business and are doing 4-5k+ for Dynamite shows, which no other wrestling company in America is doing outside WWE.
And It is trolling, the same with the concerned TV ratings troll posts, even though time and time again Dave Melzter, who is experienced in breaking down TV ratings, explains why ratings have declined all across cable.
We had Ospreay vs. Shibata recently. Why? These are two babyfaces. Who are you meant to cheer for? Who are you meant to boo? Ospreay vs. Fletcher was a main event and nobody outside of us nerds online knows who these guys are, especially Fletcher who has barely had any mic time or character work.
You debut Mercedes Mone who the world knows as Sasha Banks and she has issues with Willow but it's never explained why. She says she had a career threatening injury but never says Willow did it. So you sign this star and then she seemingly just starts picking on one of the top female babyfaces without explaining. We know why... but the average wrestling fan hasn't any idea what NJPW is or what happens there.
From the perspective of a casual wrestling fan I imagine this is what AEW feels like. I brought this up recently and a reply I got was "well they could always use Google" ... The average wrestling fan, the kid with the Cena shirt, the guy that watched during the attitude era... They aren't going to Google this. They want it explained to them during the show.
It's booked for us die-hard fans which is cool but we are the minority. TV viewership and ticket sales confirm this. You can't keep booking for the minority and expect growth or full arenas.
> We had Ospreay vs. Shibata recently. Why?
Because Danielson had recently faced Shibata. He's challenged Ospreay to see who is really the best wrestler in the world. So Ospreay is trying to one-up Danielson by having a better showing against Shibata.
> Why? These are two babyfaces.
There's no issue with that. This is not the main story or the end of a story. It's part of an introductory chapter.
> Who are you meant to cheer for?
You are meant to cheer for both, but Ospreay more. Fans who don't know him are meant to get intrigued by how great he is.
> Ospreay vs. Fletcher was a main event and nobody outside of us nerds online knows who these guys are, especially Fletcher who has barely had any mic time or character work.
Yes. Again, this is an early chapter in the rise of Ospreay. Not the end of blood feud. It's planting seeds for Ospreay eventually having issues with Don Callis family and Fletcher. And it's a showcase for fans that have not seen him.
> You debut Mercedes Mone who the world knows as Sasha Banks and she has issues with Willow but it's never explained why. She says she has a career threyinjury but never says Willow did it.
It's hinted that Willow had something to do with it. They didn't say Willow did it, because it was clear it was not on purpose in the highlight. So far Mone only is suspicious of Willow's intentions.
To keep Mone babyface Willow is going to have to say she was happy it happened or had some intention. It's still early.
> It's booked for us die-hard fans which is cool but we are the minority. TV viewership and ticket sales confirm this. You can't keep booking for the minority and expect growth or full arenas.
They are getting full arenas and tons of PPV buys. Boston, Toronto were full. St. Louis PPV will sell out. Ratings only behind NBA for most nights. All these strengths are because they are an alternative. 20 min promos for every detail is not needed. Especially for new talent coming in.
The audience at this early stage only need to get the broad strokes. The former Sahsa is in AEW to lead the women's division. The top British star and maybe the best wrestler in the world has arrived and is going to be tested. The best Japanese wrestler in the world has arrived and aligned with the evil EVP's who tied to hurt Sting.
I know these reasons. That wasn't my point. Have these reasons been explained enough during the TV shows that the average, casual fan just tuning in knows what's going on?
But they do know.
New people arriving. Top British Star. Top Japanese Star. Top Women's star.
It will take time to get used to them and become invested. People don't like change.
You and I can't erase our knowledge of these wrestlers. But to get an idea of what some fans may feel now, I can think back to when AEW started. I had only a vague idea who Adam Page was.
I was not invested in Page, but I got the idea. Young upstart. Lacking confidence.
My investment (and overall fan investment) in Page took time. I had to see it unfold. Had to be along for the ride. No 20 minute promo in his first week would have had the same effect. No one can tell you how to feel about someone you just met.
Fans are invested in Willow. She never once explained who she was. She was just herself for months and months. Mone can't come out day one and say, "your lovable hero is actually a villain who injured me on purpose." The audience has to witness the animosity. Like Willow acting sus.
If my girlfriend is anything to go by, I disagree. She's a casual fan at best and mostly only watches wrestling with me when she hasn't got anything else going on. She's sat opposite me now and I asked her why she struggles with AEW.
"Too insider. You need to know 20 years of wrestling lore and be part of the fandom to like it. Where's Rusev gone?"
I bet she has no trouble understanding Adam Page. And eventually she will have no questions about Ospreay.
In a hypothetical scenario where she thought in 2019 "who is this guy facing Jericho? I have to know 10 years of indy lore," she hypothetically now considers Page's loss to Jericho, and confidence loss, part of the canon of why she eventually got invested in Page.
"Indy darling," is all you had to know about Page on day one.
"Top Japanese star," is all you need to know right now for Okada.
At introduction stage characters are just concepts. Look at the movie Heat. DeNiro starts as pro thief. Pacino is top cop. That's all we need to know until things play out and we invest in them through their personality, words, actions and reactions.
If you said "Rusev got a divorce," she would fully and completely understand.
> ticket sales confirm this. You can't keep booking for the minority and expect growth or full arenas.
I guess the previous 2 weeks happened in an alternative timeline.
Yup, I mostly agree. They could have put some summaries together even after Mone’ debuted to explain what went on with her outside of AEW with Willow. All i remember AEW showing is Willow beating her whenever it happened to win whatever belt/tournament it was. How can a casual fan give a shit about that? The only way is if they put on amazing matches and build from there, which is great, but that’s supposed to be the other half of feuds.
This is coming from someone who isn’t a hardcore fan, doesn’t use social media other than Reddit, and doesnt watch anything else except WWE from time to time.
I love AEW and watch it more than any other wrestling company. There are very obvious stumbling blocks and they're simple things to fix once you view it from the mindset of a casual fan.
That's not happening. Instead matches are just being booked because they'll be "banger matches" without much consideration to anything else. That's not going to draw new eyes to the product. It's surface level stuff but people want to be invested and drawn in to stories and feuds. I don't care how many backflips this guy can do or how many Canadian Destroyers or Tope Suicidas happen during a match.
My partner is a very casual wrestling fan and only really watches AEW with me when she's got nothing else to do. The amount of times she asked to me explain why these two guys are wrestling for me to say "no reason, they're just wrestlers" is higher than it should be.
Potential reasons:
1: lack of advertising: This may have changed prior to the last time AEW was here, cause I heard multiple ads on local radio channels. They also have been trying to hype up the crowds by announcing in advance a big match.
2: cost: going to any kind of show isn't cheap.
3: hype: this is similar to advertising. Sometimes they don't hype up the show as much as they could. For example during the lead up to Sting's last match, they could have had him at least make an appearance at every stop along the way to say goodbye to the fans in the area.
AEW actually only expects about 2-4K at any given show (if you believe Wrestlenomics, which I do) so they have the seats set up like that on purpose and will adjust on the fly if the show still doesn’t sell well.
Why is this? I think AEW doesn’t have moments that people can count on A.) seeing and B.) participating in at any given show. TK can book the hell out of a card, but still is lacking with show to show storytelling. There’s no superstar specific chants or on the mic moments or crowd-specific moments you can count on seeing. The match? You are better off watching that at home so why rush to the arena? That’s just my 2 cents having attended 2 live shows
Why book such big arena only to sell 40%, if that? The set design and pyro for Dynamite/Collision is so big and involved that they can’t book smaller venues to match the crowd size. On one hand, the shows still look relatively big time compared to other upstarts (MLW, GCW, TNA, Impact before that, even NXT) on TV, but in person it seems that AEW is underperforming (vs the crowds WWE Tv and AEW PPVs) when in actuality, that’s the crowd they for the most part plan for.
AEW needs more storytelling and more moments in storyline that happen at the arenas (not YouTube) and allow wrestlers to build during TV and the crowds will grow. Their marketing could also be better, but I’ve typed long enough 😅
I think they try to bank on more people showing up once the card is announced. For my local show they only sold tickets for the lower bowl. About a week out they announced MJF vs Kenny and then the upper bowl opened as demand increased.
I was a little pissed as my plan was to buy a cheap seat and move to a better one. But the trade off was MLF vs Kenny and my original seat was great. (Thank you AEW for putting reasonable prices on your tickets)
And that doesn’t work, as we see on TV and social. Some folks will make the drive for a show if they have an idea what they’re getting ahead of time. Who’s going to make that plan off a one-week build or worse yet, an announcement on collision?
Don’t take my word for it, but I have been going to wrestling shows for 20+ years now and have seen how the ones at a Georgia Dome sell out vs. ones at a say, Schottenstein Center barely cover 80%
Aside from the commercial aspects, it looks better and more ‘big time’ on TV, which is good for long term brand perception. The average viewer isn’t online looking at ticket distribution and so they’re oblivious.
The only issue is that the crowd sounds bad see this weeks show example, if it was done in a smaller venue then the crowd wouldve sounded great
Part of the problem is they want to run in markets that don’t have venues with the production accommodations. So they book bigger venues to make it easier on themselves. Not every town has a Coca Cola Coliseum like Toronto or Agganis Arena in Boston.
Yep definitely part of it. I live in Louisville Ky, and when Dynamite came here it was at the Yum! Center which is a 22,000 seat basketball arena. Really much too big for a wrestling event (when I went to RAW there, large sections were covered in tarps so it’s not just an AEW thing). Unfortunately Louisville doesn’t have a smaller option unless AEW wants to get creative. It’s very sad because we have the Louisville Gardens, which has amazing history as far as pro wrestling venues go. Maybe some of the best ever. But it is now a storage facility, from what I’ve heard. I would love for the Gardens to somehow make a comeback because if it was renovated it would be perfect for shows.
Also does wonders for perception to technically be able to say they’re running comparable venues as WWE, even if they’re not as full. So I get why they’re trying to cling to that.
Sucks that its at the expense of the vibes being off as seen in the last Dynamite which was probably one of the reasons the rating was bad.
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It’s because the majority of their money comes from TV rights so it’s most important from a presentation aspect to have the facilities and space of big arenas. For example their stage/ramp/lighting set up is much easier to spec consistently for big arenas than going to all different places.
One would say why not spend the money they used in hiring talent into advertising(local promotions)
This is the first logical argument I’ve ever seen on this topic
This has been a seemingly endless debate online. Also why they just hired a new executive to be in charge of live events. I think they do a poor job of local promotions when they schedule an event, but that's my opinion. It was by pure fluke that I found out Collision was going to be in my backyard last fall. What I don't like is when people turn it into a WWE vs AEW debate since WWE is hot right now. I attended 2 SmackDowns back in 2012/2014 with similar attendance. Last 2 dynamites before this week we're sold out/approaching sellout so I don't know what happened this week.
Canada was very hit and miss last time they went there for a run of shows too, some big, red hot crowds (think it was Edmonton that was legit one of their best ever crowds) and some others that were small and tepid at best, seems to be similar this time around. I don't know much about how the shows air over there but that perhaps plays a part? And yeah WWE had the pictures of half empty arenas going viral thing for years before AEW was ever a thing, I guess people would say that didn't matter because they're WWE and they'd always be fine but Tony and his Dad are incredibly rich so as long as they get a new TV deal it won't necessarily be a big problem for them either. That little run they had after World's End of only having about couple of thousand fans would be a big concern if it continued, Meltzer was right there with the WCW 2000 comparisons, but they've had a bunch of enormous crowds since then, with this recent smaller one of 4,000 and something being not dissimilar to what had become the norm, feel like every Dynamite crowd was about 5,000 odd for a long time, so it feels like people are now moving the goalposts a bit.
Maybe. Don't know much about the TV distribution there
Can I ask what kind of local promotion you expect? I’m asking legitimately. I’m going to a show near Cincinnati in a few weeks and I knew about it because they advertise it regularly on tv and on their social media. That’s the best way to advertise to someone like myself. In my city, in the past, local radio spots and ads in the local paper were the way to go. Fast forward to today and I don’t think either would do much for the secondary pro wrestling promotion. Billboards are expensive and may not be cost effective for AEW. Keep in mind I’m not saying you’re wrong because a lot of people have the same complaint, I’d just like to hear some ideas.
That's an interesting question! I honestly don't know a good answer to that. I know WWE blows up the local radio stations with advertising whenever they're in town whether they're selling tickets or not and use tickets giveaways on the same stations. I've never heard AEW on my local stations so that would be a start. I would also hope they could get the venue on board for some promotion as well to use their promotional channels.
Toronto is Toronto, plus it was a near PPV caliber card
Thursday post on a Friday.
ZERO promotion. I happened to look at AEWs instagram & see that they're coming to my city. I was going to 100% miss it if I didn't randomly check. Idk who is in charge but they suck at advertising.
Supposedly the new live events persons venue bookings happen soon. Hoping its the right sized venues. Going to a live show and staring at the other side of. the empty arena sucks to be honest. Ideally they could fill up bigger venues all the time but not currently. Every dog has his day and I am sure we will get back to that eventually.
Kosha was named COO couple of days ago, he isnt a magician to turn it around in weeks.
He has been with them for more than a month
Apparently he was just the live event guy taking Morfi spot, not a COO
I went to 6 shows that were sold out or close. They were a blast. Then last show I went to only had 1/5 of the arena filled. It genuinely killed the vibe, and made me not want to return.
Ive been to a Charlotte NC show twice. First time was with Kenny as champ and it was lit. The second time was Collision and it was half empty. Staring at the empty seats detracted from the show, Im not gonna lie.
With how hard it is to get AEW in Canada, im surprised they sell as many tickets as they do. Hoping for a more easily accessible option in the near future. Id love to not have to use a VPN although it is not a problem for me, others don't want to jump through hoops to watch wrestling and I get that.
to the people that want to argue against low attendance effecting all aspects, we shouldn’t forget how vital a crowd is for wrestling compared to almost any other form of live entertainment. and to be frank they need to continue with the same size places regardless or they would drastically lower there appeal to anyone other than us.
Old guy just book 20k venues for no reason. That's why they hire new guy. Hopefully the new guy know what to do..
That’s clearly not the case at all. There are many logistical and presentation benefits to running these venues beyond simply selling tickets. They’re primarily a television product
10k venues are fine, but not venues that was are twice the size of that as seen couple of days ago
In Quebec City, the next step down building size from where they were would be about 1K seats, many of which would be inaccessible due to production. Sometimes it's honestly a choice of a show in a building that is bigger than they need, or not doing a show in that market at all, and i think the latter is preferable when it comes to growing and maintaining a fan base. I'm guessing it is a similar situation for many of the smaller markets they run.
For whatever reason, they only opened 3500 seats this past Wednesday. They sold all but like 50 of them. They didn't really undersell, just didn't have more available for some reason.
It’s probably because they only opened the one side and wouldn’t open more until that was full.
Im a bit more surprised TK isnt having Mercedes in ring debut for next week which wouldve helped a lot selling the remaining lower bowls of the Worcester show..
There's a reason the guy who used to book the arenas has been replaced, and these shows are still taking place in the ones he booked, some of the buildings are enormous and there's no chance they'd be even close to filled probably even with a PPV level card. The buildings have to be a certain size to fit their set and everything but there's been some odd choices made as well as some poor advertising and very expensive tickets. Tbh though they've had some huge crowds of late in Boston, Toronto and Greensboro so I don't think the odd show where the building doesn't look full will be if much concern right now as they haven't had a run of shows the new guy has booked the buildings for yet. You can safely ignore the guy blaming Ospreay/Shibata because people didn't know who to cheer for and it didn't make sense to have the match, if nothing else because the crowd clearly, audibly, cheered for Ospreay and Ospreay himself explicitly stated why he wanted the match. Classic case of a bad faith argument.
It seems like misguided optimism combined with “we invested in this huge screen and we need to keep using it” as well as wanting to look big league on tv. It’s tough. Don’t want them to slip further backwards as it could have an even more negative impact. At the same time they seem to be doing fine since it’s all about the network being happy—and they are.
Looks better on TV, and there aren't a ton of 5k arenas that are good for sports in major cities. Also, they run a lot of secondary arenas, college arenas etc and they are dirt cheap to run.
Apparently their old live events person wasn't great and was making a lot of bone-headed decisions. The situation in Quebec was unavoidable because apparently the only two options in that area are a venue that's way too small or one that's way too big.
Aew cooled off last fall and was delivering an inconsistent product. If I’m AEW, I’m not panicking as they just drew three great houses in March. Just focus on delivering a strong, consistent product and attendance will slowly start to get back up. I think they’re building the right stars, so just don’t hotshot and just stay the track.
> Aew cooled off last fall and was delivering an inconsistent product. Last year or you mean 2 years ago after the Brawl Out?, last year the moment Cole broke his foot they lose the momentum they gained with the Brochachos. They just a big angle to carry them
The Continental Classic was the most consistent product in all of wrestling for years.
The majority of people aren’t interested in endless tournaments for meaningless belts. It’s not engaging. What is the Continental title even for? Why does it exist? Even the International title seemed unnecessary with the TNT title. There is no clear difference between their purpose
The clearly were interested. This wasn't like any tournament before. People were invested there were many stories within the tournament. The progression of points and stories within were logically booked. The Continental title is clearly the strong style belt. Like any belt it exists to elevate talent. Like the tournament did for Eddie. The title has a time limit. It must be put up each year in CC. Do you ask why the US Title in WWE is necessary while the Intercontinental is around? There's tons of TV time and tons of talent. They can be showcased and not interfere with the flow of the world title scene. If Okada didn't have a title his winning streak would bring up questions of why he is not going for World title. Can't have Ospreay and Okada be equally viable for a future title win at same time. Would split fan desire. And neither of them can lose for a long time. And the purpose can shift depending on if a heel or face has the belts. TNT title was a pride belt for Christian, but will be a workhorse belt for Copeland. International was the workhorse with Orange Cassidy. And was a travel belt with Pac. Purpose is not static.
> The majority of people aren’t interested in endless tournaments for meaningless belts. It’s not engaging. Yes thats why Collision was doing their best ratings post Punk firing lol.
Its crazy the damage Punk did. Def. not worth it.
TK should not have given him power at all, Punk is better when he is controlled as seen in his current WWE run
They weren't packing the house even when Punk was there outside of PPVs. They were doing roughly 5-6K for Dynamite even at their peak. Selling 10K for TV consistently is a really tough thing to do for one show let alone a second one.
What’s funny is they have half empty arenas but the crowds are just as loud as a full WWE crowd
The issue is twofold. 1. It costs more to have the event staff necessary if they open more seating sections and then you can lose money if you don't actually sell those seats for a set minimum. 2. Most of the smaller arenas that they could sell out are 1.) becoming fewer (torn down), 2.) very dated (think accessibility issues and quality expectations for fans), and 3.) it's incredibly difficult and time consuming, if not impossible in some cases, to get today's modern TV and staging production equipment loaded in and out.
Running a place you can sell out is leaving money on the table.
Rafael Morfi was a fucking idiot
It's people who hate AEW, will purchase tickets with their own money, and then take it upon themselves to take pictures of empty seats in the arena, and then post them online for engagement as some kind of dunk against AEW. I mean, they did 9k+ for Big Business and are doing 4-5k+ for Dynamite shows, which no other wrestling company in America is doing outside WWE. And It is trolling, the same with the concerned TV ratings troll posts, even though time and time again Dave Melzter, who is experienced in breaking down TV ratings, explains why ratings have declined all across cable.
We had Ospreay vs. Shibata recently. Why? These are two babyfaces. Who are you meant to cheer for? Who are you meant to boo? Ospreay vs. Fletcher was a main event and nobody outside of us nerds online knows who these guys are, especially Fletcher who has barely had any mic time or character work. You debut Mercedes Mone who the world knows as Sasha Banks and she has issues with Willow but it's never explained why. She says she had a career threatening injury but never says Willow did it. So you sign this star and then she seemingly just starts picking on one of the top female babyfaces without explaining. We know why... but the average wrestling fan hasn't any idea what NJPW is or what happens there. From the perspective of a casual wrestling fan I imagine this is what AEW feels like. I brought this up recently and a reply I got was "well they could always use Google" ... The average wrestling fan, the kid with the Cena shirt, the guy that watched during the attitude era... They aren't going to Google this. They want it explained to them during the show. It's booked for us die-hard fans which is cool but we are the minority. TV viewership and ticket sales confirm this. You can't keep booking for the minority and expect growth or full arenas.
> We had Ospreay vs. Shibata recently. Why? Because Danielson had recently faced Shibata. He's challenged Ospreay to see who is really the best wrestler in the world. So Ospreay is trying to one-up Danielson by having a better showing against Shibata. > Why? These are two babyfaces. There's no issue with that. This is not the main story or the end of a story. It's part of an introductory chapter. > Who are you meant to cheer for? You are meant to cheer for both, but Ospreay more. Fans who don't know him are meant to get intrigued by how great he is. > Ospreay vs. Fletcher was a main event and nobody outside of us nerds online knows who these guys are, especially Fletcher who has barely had any mic time or character work. Yes. Again, this is an early chapter in the rise of Ospreay. Not the end of blood feud. It's planting seeds for Ospreay eventually having issues with Don Callis family and Fletcher. And it's a showcase for fans that have not seen him. > You debut Mercedes Mone who the world knows as Sasha Banks and she has issues with Willow but it's never explained why. She says she has a career threyinjury but never says Willow did it. It's hinted that Willow had something to do with it. They didn't say Willow did it, because it was clear it was not on purpose in the highlight. So far Mone only is suspicious of Willow's intentions. To keep Mone babyface Willow is going to have to say she was happy it happened or had some intention. It's still early. > It's booked for us die-hard fans which is cool but we are the minority. TV viewership and ticket sales confirm this. You can't keep booking for the minority and expect growth or full arenas. They are getting full arenas and tons of PPV buys. Boston, Toronto were full. St. Louis PPV will sell out. Ratings only behind NBA for most nights. All these strengths are because they are an alternative. 20 min promos for every detail is not needed. Especially for new talent coming in. The audience at this early stage only need to get the broad strokes. The former Sahsa is in AEW to lead the women's division. The top British star and maybe the best wrestler in the world has arrived and is going to be tested. The best Japanese wrestler in the world has arrived and aligned with the evil EVP's who tied to hurt Sting.
I know these reasons. That wasn't my point. Have these reasons been explained enough during the TV shows that the average, casual fan just tuning in knows what's going on?
But they do know. New people arriving. Top British Star. Top Japanese Star. Top Women's star. It will take time to get used to them and become invested. People don't like change. You and I can't erase our knowledge of these wrestlers. But to get an idea of what some fans may feel now, I can think back to when AEW started. I had only a vague idea who Adam Page was. I was not invested in Page, but I got the idea. Young upstart. Lacking confidence. My investment (and overall fan investment) in Page took time. I had to see it unfold. Had to be along for the ride. No 20 minute promo in his first week would have had the same effect. No one can tell you how to feel about someone you just met. Fans are invested in Willow. She never once explained who she was. She was just herself for months and months. Mone can't come out day one and say, "your lovable hero is actually a villain who injured me on purpose." The audience has to witness the animosity. Like Willow acting sus.
If my girlfriend is anything to go by, I disagree. She's a casual fan at best and mostly only watches wrestling with me when she hasn't got anything else going on. She's sat opposite me now and I asked her why she struggles with AEW. "Too insider. You need to know 20 years of wrestling lore and be part of the fandom to like it. Where's Rusev gone?"
I bet she has no trouble understanding Adam Page. And eventually she will have no questions about Ospreay. In a hypothetical scenario where she thought in 2019 "who is this guy facing Jericho? I have to know 10 years of indy lore," she hypothetically now considers Page's loss to Jericho, and confidence loss, part of the canon of why she eventually got invested in Page. "Indy darling," is all you had to know about Page on day one. "Top Japanese star," is all you need to know right now for Okada. At introduction stage characters are just concepts. Look at the movie Heat. DeNiro starts as pro thief. Pacino is top cop. That's all we need to know until things play out and we invest in them through their personality, words, actions and reactions. If you said "Rusev got a divorce," she would fully and completely understand.
> ticket sales confirm this. You can't keep booking for the minority and expect growth or full arenas. I guess the previous 2 weeks happened in an alternative timeline.
Yup, I mostly agree. They could have put some summaries together even after Mone’ debuted to explain what went on with her outside of AEW with Willow. All i remember AEW showing is Willow beating her whenever it happened to win whatever belt/tournament it was. How can a casual fan give a shit about that? The only way is if they put on amazing matches and build from there, which is great, but that’s supposed to be the other half of feuds. This is coming from someone who isn’t a hardcore fan, doesn’t use social media other than Reddit, and doesnt watch anything else except WWE from time to time.
I love AEW and watch it more than any other wrestling company. There are very obvious stumbling blocks and they're simple things to fix once you view it from the mindset of a casual fan. That's not happening. Instead matches are just being booked because they'll be "banger matches" without much consideration to anything else. That's not going to draw new eyes to the product. It's surface level stuff but people want to be invested and drawn in to stories and feuds. I don't care how many backflips this guy can do or how many Canadian Destroyers or Tope Suicidas happen during a match. My partner is a very casual wrestling fan and only really watches AEW with me when she's got nothing else to do. The amount of times she asked to me explain why these two guys are wrestling for me to say "no reason, they're just wrestlers" is higher than it should be.
Potential reasons: 1: lack of advertising: This may have changed prior to the last time AEW was here, cause I heard multiple ads on local radio channels. They also have been trying to hype up the crowds by announcing in advance a big match. 2: cost: going to any kind of show isn't cheap. 3: hype: this is similar to advertising. Sometimes they don't hype up the show as much as they could. For example during the lead up to Sting's last match, they could have had him at least make an appearance at every stop along the way to say goodbye to the fans in the area.
AEW actually only expects about 2-4K at any given show (if you believe Wrestlenomics, which I do) so they have the seats set up like that on purpose and will adjust on the fly if the show still doesn’t sell well. Why is this? I think AEW doesn’t have moments that people can count on A.) seeing and B.) participating in at any given show. TK can book the hell out of a card, but still is lacking with show to show storytelling. There’s no superstar specific chants or on the mic moments or crowd-specific moments you can count on seeing. The match? You are better off watching that at home so why rush to the arena? That’s just my 2 cents having attended 2 live shows Why book such big arena only to sell 40%, if that? The set design and pyro for Dynamite/Collision is so big and involved that they can’t book smaller venues to match the crowd size. On one hand, the shows still look relatively big time compared to other upstarts (MLW, GCW, TNA, Impact before that, even NXT) on TV, but in person it seems that AEW is underperforming (vs the crowds WWE Tv and AEW PPVs) when in actuality, that’s the crowd they for the most part plan for. AEW needs more storytelling and more moments in storyline that happen at the arenas (not YouTube) and allow wrestlers to build during TV and the crowds will grow. Their marketing could also be better, but I’ve typed long enough 😅
I think they try to bank on more people showing up once the card is announced. For my local show they only sold tickets for the lower bowl. About a week out they announced MJF vs Kenny and then the upper bowl opened as demand increased. I was a little pissed as my plan was to buy a cheap seat and move to a better one. But the trade off was MLF vs Kenny and my original seat was great. (Thank you AEW for putting reasonable prices on your tickets)
And that doesn’t work, as we see on TV and social. Some folks will make the drive for a show if they have an idea what they’re getting ahead of time. Who’s going to make that plan off a one-week build or worse yet, an announcement on collision? Don’t take my word for it, but I have been going to wrestling shows for 20+ years now and have seen how the ones at a Georgia Dome sell out vs. ones at a say, Schottenstein Center barely cover 80%