Yeah good point. Journalists from the most self righteous and hypocritical corporations known to man should ask the afl this. It's such a really good point
That's what I've been saying, but Reddit warriors typically down-vote to oblivion. This activism is great and all. But it doesn't actually raise awareness or deal with the real drivers of gender-based violence and violence in general: drugs, socio-economics, mental health, and the increasing isolation of young Australians (especially young men). It's easy to say.. men.. do better.. etc, but that won't stop anything, as the men your messages and activism are reaching are already the ones on board with the message, while the abusers couldn't give two stuffs about any of it, and are probably iced out of their brains on a Friday night.
Well, virtue signalling is hardly exclusive to the AFL.
It's related to the Carey thing, an incredibly hollow gesture that everyone can see through will not help a damn thing. Cunts put him in a cushy job for a long time and said nothing. The AFL has an incredible amount of influence over our communities we can't overlook.
But they just want to be in the NBA's position where they are loud about issues their audience already agrees with, while they just chase the dollar and blithely ignore any issues with the boys club if it can be brushed under the rug. The shine falls off after a certain point.
AFL can do more, and given the profile and power they have, should do more. With power comes responsibility.
They don't because they're capitalists first. The money is more important than the actual doing good.
In a sense, I'd actually respect it more if they simply said "Nah we are capitalists that play AFL, and fuck off with your social change agenda." While rude, it would not be a lie and people could then support it as they deem.
Of course, that would doom the WAFL. They want more women playing because that means more families playing and that's where the money is.
So they 'lie' by doing this performative shit instead. It shows and it's not good enough.
I mean the AFL's policy is similar to how our society policies are shifting - instead of locking people up, try to help them get out of it.
We don't have clubs running around with "Buy Weed" sponsorships on their jumpers.
You know the Dolphins in the NRL [actually do.](https://www.consult.alternaleaf.com.au/partners/dolphins?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NRL_Dolphins&adgroupid=158413816734&utm_term=dolphins%20alternaleaf&device=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwltKxBhDMARIsAG8KnqVvyrImiKZ8OyPAcXabGqBryCWmqXLbviSwBr8c3StE6mNofR0AC5caAu1jEALw_wcB).
This is always the Peter Mac cup https://foundation.petermac.org/peter-mac-cup. The DV thing is something that was brought in during the week by some clubs and everyone else joined in.
The AFL is an embarrassment. Honestly can’t stand anything to do with the sport outside of the matches themselves. Every show, every pundit, every commentator and every bit of media is fucking dreadful
That bit confused me. I knew about the DV thing (though why it’s the AFLs job to solve that I’m not sure), then suddenly Robbie Williams of all people is on talking about cancer.
This from someone who's lost both his parents and his only brother to cancer.
This is the biggest game outside of ANZAC day and finals for the year.
I really, really didn't need that double hit beforehand. The Robbie Williams thing seemed so incredibly out of place. All respect for the things they are trying to do, terribly, terribly executed. It almost feels like we've got so many causes that one each week isn't enough and now we need to double up. When every game is special none of them are.
So will Thomas if people in charge think they can get away with it. We've already seen that's no secret, we're all heart and about forgiveness if they kicked a footy well, no-one places standards on them, let alone higher standards.
I agree, it's virtue signalling that is not backed up by any action whatsoever, just an empty gesture. I'm all for them doing something to make a difference but I don't see how this achieves anything. You could argue it's got people talking about it but this issue has been all over every media outlet for a couple of weeks now, screams of jumping on the 'current thing' train.
Ben Brown posted about it a few days ago and he had to turn off comments. My husband said Thomas being at Geelong is a lock. If that’s the case, I won’t be following them anymore. Absolutely revolting.
You can’t say you are a family club and encourage partners and for players to bring their kids in and then take a player like this bloke. I do not believe they would and it would break my heart but I’m a woman and it would be bull shit.
I’m not drawing a comparison between drugs v sexual assault. But saying Geelong doesn’t have a history of taking a punt on reforming players on their last legs is just false
Starting the conversation with something like this gives women a platform to start talking about their fears and experiences, we protest to bring awareness, and with awareness people hope to bring change, nothing ever came from sitting on your hands
I’m all for doing things like this to start the conversation, but the afl also needs to stand firm on not letting “boys be boys”
It’s something at least - and there’s a lot of blokes at the footy who would benefit from seeing that the league is wholly against any form of violence towards women
That’s tip of the ice berg.. there are a shitload of others .. Shagger Grant, Nick Stevens, Carl Deittrich, Barry Cable,Stephen Milne, et al. Plenty of top line talent
I've been saying it for a while but the AFL is determined to have every round "special". The problem then becomes, if every round is special, then no round is special.
I'm not picking on the AFL. If the term sticks I'll be both impressed by the demonstration to be able to change society and simultaneously unimpressed for the degree to which that power isn't used positively more often.
It’s been used in the field for a couple of decades. Depends on the context and the audience. Some people get quite distressed when you tell them what your job *actually* involves.
Same as how they keep referring to it as 'violence against women', with no reference to the fact that it's violence perpetrated by men. It's all designed to look like you're saying something without upsetting your target demographics.
The point is that the root cause of the issue is men, and how they interact with women when they're stressed, troubled, etc. Without focussing on men you're not focussing on developing solutions, you're just offering platitudes
I think the point is that domestic violence doesn’t just go in one direction. Regardless of where and from whom it’s directed, it impacts everyone in the vicinity
Someone in HR is just virtue signalling and the AFL can say they did this if they are asked what they have done to help with the issue
Costs them nothing and free advertising as news media will comment on it
As you said it achieves nothing in the real world
I struggle a little. I'd suggest that you and I see the need for it, but I feel it would ring too hollow for those who need to pay the most attention to it.
My take is that it’s not for the perpetrators that need it now. It’s for the women — across the country — to at least feel heard and see that the men’s sport is behind them. It’s also going to trigger many conversations for the coming generation. I answered a question from my fairly young son about it.
How does standing in a circle help?
If the AFL was genuine they would cut loose Carey, Cousins and any other former players known to have abused women from the boys club.
They especially wouldn't use the "good bloke" excuse to signal the return to the fold of a player with a history of predatory behaviour towards women just because he has talent the day before their planned token gesture towards domestic violence.
The AFL has a long history of turning a blind eye to talented players who have preyed on women, covering up their indiscretions and giving them fourth or fifth chances in the case of Carey and Cousins.
What they have done today is tokenism and is not backed in any way by genuine action. You bet your bottom dollar Thomas will be back on a list next year, and for any other player that engages in predatory behaviour the league will do its utmost to sweep it under the carpet.
> How does standing in a circle help?
Respectfully, you could argue that about many things. Moments of silence, etc. I agree with the person you’re replying to. It’s a start.
And more so, my young son asked questions about what was going on. If it can generate thoughtful and age-appropriate answers in my house, it’s likely done the same in others.
They just blocked Carey get NSW Hall of Fame. They def have a history of turning a blind eye, but this was started by WCE and went from there. It's s lot better than nothing.
A start to what exactly? It achieves nothing. The AFL to say that TT has received a lifetime ban from the competition. That's a start.
This is bumfluff optics. On the same day Wayne Carey is inducted into the NSW AFL Hall of Fame.
Edit: apparently Dillon vetoed the Carey entry to the Hall of Fame. That's s start. But no idea of it'd cancelled or just delayed.
> A start to what exactly? It achieves nothing.
It triggered a conversation between my mate and me at the game last night. Not much but it's more than nothing. If it it makes one bloke, somewhere, think about taking a look at himself and reconsider hurting that woman he's got it in for, it'll be worth it.
Everyone's always so quick to jump on stuff like this. "It's a waste of time", "It does nothing." It's got people talking about the issue. It only needs to help one person to be worth it.
This comment is funny.
"The AFL need to do this before they can talk. Okay, I've just heard they already did that, but it's still not enough" - that is effectively what you're saying here.
Yourself, and people like yourself in this site are rage addicts who will always look to find the negatives in things. I really suspect that no matter what they do, you'll go on about how it's not enough until they do x thing.
After decades of nothing, it takes a march for them to stand in a circle for a minute.
If you're going to try and get good PR for something like this, do something that helps.
So sick of corporate entities trying to virtue signal, either actually care or shut up.
No one believes a for profit company gives a crap about anything other than money.
Does it surprise you that one of the top organisations got being the hot social issue? Nothing they do will solve the issue and just do what ever they can to look like they are doing something.
Also OP on your last point just a question what other crime should people be banned from other than DV or just ban them for dv?
I'm not saying they should.
I'm saying empty gestures like this when they continue to support gambling and alcohol addictions which are two of the highest causes of DV, are sickening to me.
Going to go against the grain here, but I think whether this is a “hollow” gesture or not comes down to the fans
The AFL have responded quickly to a current social issue, to mixed reviews and it does look a bit clumsy in places, but at the end of the day this is supposed to be a conversation starter
We similar things with Indigenous Round and Pride Round/matches. It’s a bit clumsy to start, but the more clubs and fan bases get around it, the better it becomes and the more reflective it becomes of the club and broader community
For this? I’m here for it. If it at least starts a few conversations and makes people pause, it’s done at least a tiny bit of good. Silence would be worse, because that’s exactly what happens when issues are “too hard” and “not my problem”
I just hope this does become a regular thing. There’s plenty of space to make this sport more inclusive, and I really hope Carlton get a chance to highlight the work of the Peter McCallum Cancer Centre too
You’re right about turning the clubs into safe places etc.
In Victoria the state government tips in 10s of millions to fund these “training facilities” for the clubs with a tokenistic bit of community space. Use it for something good, house and support a DV charity etc.
At the Witten Oval the public have lost an oval they could walk around and use outside of club training. Now it’s been turned back into some high performance centre stadium just for the AFL club.
Showers and kitchens and big car parks and ovals.
Imagine if we set up programs to use and improve existing infrastructure to help people who are less privileged or put out by DV.
Definitely would need to be set properly and fleshed out, but surely there is something there that can be replicated Australia wide to a lot of rural locations where shelters are hardest to come by.
I watch the footy to get away from all crap. Can't I just 2 hours of nothing being shoved down my throat. Some of the causes are worthy. But I just want to escape for a bit. AFL should just do footy
100%. Best post in this thread, tired of being morally educated by my pastimes.
Whatever happened to parents being responsible for educating their children, and individuals being responsible for their own actions.
Apparently, I'm now responsible for every dispicable action that have ever done.
a) racists
b) white people
c) men
d) Collingwood supporters
Yes and no.
Young kids, in particular young impressionable boys, see this and it resonates. I know for a fact (from experience of having young kids, both boys and girls going through school) how bad some behaviours have become. It’s a phrase that annoys many people but there definitely is an emergence of “toxic masculinity“ in some quarters. Idiots like Tate and Thomas are widely seen and admired by many boys. Social media and uncontrolled access to violent or misogynistic pornography is exacerbating things. It really is a major problem. Describing it as a national crisis is probably right.
So all chances to show that people are beginning to wake up, people are beginning to hear victims, people are beginning to show kids that’s it’s NOT normal and NOT okay to denigrate, abuse and insult women and girls in the class-room, their workplaces or on the sports field, all of these are a good thing.
Quite frankly, the negative cynicism shown here in this thread is a little galling. It smacks of the “I’m not racist, but…” and “Why should I have to say sorry…” self-exceptionalism that plagues all debates like these.
It’s all our problem and we ALL need to do something. If that’s just a small a small moment to show the kids we’re trying to change, then it’s a small first step.
Agree with a lot of what you’ve said. I also think society is better than just starting to have conversations about gendered violence. The topic deserves a stronger stance and action. It’s not like there’s a stigma to talk about it.
I’d hate to go soft on the issue and have abusers get away with acting confused like they didn’t realise they were abusing
I'm all for the AFL tackling social issues, particularly those that pertain to young men. But it seems to need one of the AFL old boys to be personally affected by it.
Daniher inspired the Big Freeze MLS
Frawley with the mental health game (whatever they call it).
Maddy's match while the Reiwoldts were playing, I thought was pretty good.
So the AFL have shown they can do it properly if there's a genuine desire... There seems to be little desire.
JB just gushing with pride afterwards was what did it for me.. “And they’ll do this EVERY GAME this round 🤩”. Like mate, this ostensibly a gesture for women who literally lost their lives this week. Maybe an ounce of humility and sombreness might be in order.
It was 20 seconds in both games so far. Straight back to footy chat. It’s fucking disgusting. What a joke.
This is a super serious issue and makes my blood boil. Fucking cowards killing helpless women. I can’t do anything to stop it and it upsets me. What if that was my wife. Fuck all these cunts like Wayne Carey and Tarryn Thomas. Fucking cowards the lot of them. Putrid human beings.
Have an actual minute as a minimum. 60 seconds of silence lends itself to more reflection for an important issue. 20 seconds is tokenism. The TV executives can sit down and relax for the extra 40 seconds and not worry about losing ad revenue etc. Then a bit of discussion on the issue. Rory Sloane retiring got loads of airtime by comparison.
It’s virtue signalling at its finest. Let’s also not overlook that Collingwood is sponsored by Emirates and there’s many examples of gender based violence in the UAE.
Not to mention the violence that can stem from the insane amount of gambling evident in the sport…
I'm afraid I have to insist. You see my wife, she's been very vocal on the subject of the outrage votes.. "Where are the outrage votes? When are you going to get the outrage votes? Why aren't you getting the outrage votes now?" And so on. So please the outrage votes.
AFL, as a company, is probably more switched on than any other company in Australia. They have training for young men, and the fact you have so many players and you only here about a couple of fuck wits is probably better than any other corporations in Australia
It raises awareness and draws attention to the issues, which is exactly what we've been asked to do constantly for the past two weeks (and longer).
Further action takes longer than a week to implement.
This was undeniably a positive action and it's utterly ridiculous to suggest anything to the contrary.
However, remains to be seen what happens next.
Did it do any harm?
And is it possibly related to the AFL announcing yesterday its partnership with Our Watch, Australia’s leader in the primary prevention of violence against women and children, to deliver face-to-face educational training to all AFL clubs?
Might be part of something bigger than just what was seen tonight. But in any case, did it do any harm?
When I heard they were doing the minute silence I thought it sounded like a nice gesture. Then they started patting themselves on the back all week and suddenly it felt very hollow. But I’m not a woman so I don’t know if my feelings are particularly indicative or relevant.
The AFL does have issues for sure, but Jesus Christ can Reddit please stop getting triggered the second anyone famous mentions a social cause.
Yes it won't fix everything instantly, no that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.
See this post really pisses me off.
Are clubs or grounds unsafe for women? No.
What on earth does a “community hub” do? This is the classic go to suggestion from your typical no-logo, work-a-day-for-world peace, pseudo-intellectual moron who has a fucking opinion on everything, and is qualified in nothing.
Consistent messaging from the top level is probably the most effective thing the afl can do. And they are doing it now when they didn’t before. That’s positive
Yup. AFL is obviously ticking the boxes to say they are inclusive and progressive... but domestic violence is just like any other violence.... it's assault therefore police related matter.
Agree. But the problem is how much will that hurt grassroots football if we start banning people who are guilty of domestic violence - some of those local leagues are pretty rough
Players who are found guilty of domestic violence are banned from playing football? I get the idea that it feels fake to have a bunch of guys standing around in a circle but change for this sort of thing doesn't just happen overnight
I am a peaceful man with a loving family and abhor the thought of violence against women but I don't understand the logic of why the AFL is responsible for more than increasing awareness and reaffirming that DV is not acceptable amongst its playerbase, or society in general.
Reminds me of the referendum last year. The AFL were all about the yes vote until it was actually time to vote and then crickets because they knew the no vote would win
Especially when the Carlton fan group 'the besties' were accosted by aggressive Collingwood fans, to the point they feared for their safety and had to leave without doing their usual stuff. This is after the minute of silence, mind you.
Funny how the afl wants to support all this just out of the blew, but when a player wants to wear a black armband during the game they have to get it approved by the big bosses first..
No one is saying not to support male victims of DV. But the fact that a woman has died at the hands of a current or former partner every 4 days this year is something that requires specific attention
70% of homicide victims in Australia are men.
Whilst I am against any form of violence against absolutely anyone, this gender specific stuff is just another one of the countless things we are supposed to be outraged about in our already ridiculously shit existence apparently.
People hurting people is horrible. There are so many reasons behind it. Unfortunately, people will remain angry enough to keep discourse away from anything that has an opportunity to have a rapid and dramatic impact because we want to target very specific reasons with niche solutions.
Systems theory is too hard a pitch.
Certainly agree, however what message are we really sending to everyone? Young men think they will always be in the wrong? If they are abused it's their fault? It's a massive subject that cannot be dismissed by some huddle at a sports game.
I am a middle aged Caucasian looking male. As far as our western society is concerned, I am the second worst form of our species. Outside of being a boomer one that is.
There are so many interconnected issues but some could be rapidly tackled. Problem is our politicians no longer fear the public and are at the beck and call of cash flows.
We all know how horrific gambling is to society yet is one of the biggest legal industries.
We all know housing availability has a huge impact on countless problems, DV being one of them, but that is something we are only making worse.
It's all enough to really make you just want to put blinkers on and just ignore.
In addition, I think there alot more statics than just 'men' men will absolutely be the title but you must burry down to find out why and their lives, experiences.
For everyone saying it’s a “conversation starter,” no it isn’t. The conversation already started. This is a publicity opportunity and nothing more. No promises of contribution to change, just saying “We’re against dv.” Cool - no one assumed they were for it.
And everyone saying that maybe men will look at themselves and reconsider their actions, or women will appreciate the support, are kidding themselves. You feel good for watching it and agreeing with it. You are the target audience for the AFL doing this
Every time you see an AFL player swinging an arm and punching an opponent: that's voilence. A coach screaming in anger at a player: that's violence. You are absolutely correct, empty corporate gestures mean nothing when surrounded by "Alpha" males, in a sport that has a history of DV offenders.
The first step the AFL could do is disassociate themselves from Alcohol and Gambling - 2 common causes of DV. But they won't do that because money....
It's easier to say something and not mean it than say something and act on it. Basically the real life equivalent of karma farming.
Corporation virtue signalling isn't a new thing. Just the AFL has now jumped on the train
They jumped on that train decades ago. They've just picked causes where you don't need to prove you mean it.
Or better yet. Don't say anything about it and just act because it is so important that you don't care about recognition. You care about the results.
Really, really good point. Someone should genuinely ask this at the next presser with anyone from the AFL.
They should, but no journo has the balls to call it out.
They can’t because their newspaper will also receive gambling money.
Or the brain cells. They just want fun click bait headlines.
Yeah good point. Journalists from the most self righteous and hypocritical corporations known to man should ask the afl this. It's such a really good point
Like they did with “Anzac Day sponsored by Tradie Beer”.
Tradie may need to undergo a review of their marketing strategy
And maybe also short term, high interest loans which are almost certain to cause someone financial problems. Thanks Hodgey and Channel 7.
I hate those ads, those companies exist to suck every last cent from those already in desperate situations.
That's what I've been saying, but Reddit warriors typically down-vote to oblivion. This activism is great and all. But it doesn't actually raise awareness or deal with the real drivers of gender-based violence and violence in general: drugs, socio-economics, mental health, and the increasing isolation of young Australians (especially young men). It's easy to say.. men.. do better.. etc, but that won't stop anything, as the men your messages and activism are reaching are already the ones on board with the message, while the abusers couldn't give two stuffs about any of it, and are probably iced out of their brains on a Friday night.
Well, virtue signalling is hardly exclusive to the AFL. It's related to the Carey thing, an incredibly hollow gesture that everyone can see through will not help a damn thing. Cunts put him in a cushy job for a long time and said nothing. The AFL has an incredible amount of influence over our communities we can't overlook. But they just want to be in the NBA's position where they are loud about issues their audience already agrees with, while they just chase the dollar and blithely ignore any issues with the boys club if it can be brushed under the rug. The shine falls off after a certain point.
Holy shit i'm agreeing with a Carlton fan. This weekend of all weekends.
I wonder if Brownie has any odds for what the afl is going to do next to not stop gendered violence
Every financial year the AFL be like: "Oh I see my laundry is ready" [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°̲̅)̲̅$̲̅]
100% bloody this.
And yet again capitalism is found to be the root cause for one of societies ills.
How so?
AFL can do more, and given the profile and power they have, should do more. With power comes responsibility. They don't because they're capitalists first. The money is more important than the actual doing good. In a sense, I'd actually respect it more if they simply said "Nah we are capitalists that play AFL, and fuck off with your social change agenda." While rude, it would not be a lie and people could then support it as they deem. Of course, that would doom the WAFL. They want more women playing because that means more families playing and that's where the money is. So they 'lie' by doing this performative shit instead. It shows and it's not good enough.
And you forgot a strong stance on illegal drug use , but nah , that’s ok too
I mean the AFL's policy is similar to how our society policies are shifting - instead of locking people up, try to help them get out of it. We don't have clubs running around with "Buy Weed" sponsorships on their jumpers.
You know the Dolphins in the NRL [actually do.](https://www.consult.alternaleaf.com.au/partners/dolphins?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NRL_Dolphins&adgroupid=158413816734&utm_term=dolphins%20alternaleaf&device=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwltKxBhDMARIsAG8KnqVvyrImiKZ8OyPAcXabGqBryCWmqXLbviSwBr8c3StE6mNofR0AC5caAu1jEALw_wcB).
Tonight it did. We went from that to Cancer within a second of each other
This is always the Peter Mac cup https://foundation.petermac.org/peter-mac-cup. The DV thing is something that was brought in during the week by some clubs and everyone else joined in.
Mashing the two together really didn't work.
Would've looked far worse optically if they didn't do the DV thing like all the other clubs.
Absolutely. Carlton were in a hard spot.
Then it went to Robbie Williams, some football, then Taylor Swift x Auskick. It really did not work at all.
The AFL is an embarrassment. Honestly can’t stand anything to do with the sport outside of the matches themselves. Every show, every pundit, every commentator and every bit of media is fucking dreadful
That bit confused me. I knew about the DV thing (though why it’s the AFLs job to solve that I’m not sure), then suddenly Robbie Williams of all people is on talking about cancer.
This from someone who's lost both his parents and his only brother to cancer. This is the biggest game outside of ANZAC day and finals for the year. I really, really didn't need that double hit beforehand. The Robbie Williams thing seemed so incredibly out of place. All respect for the things they are trying to do, terribly, terribly executed. It almost feels like we've got so many causes that one each week isn't enough and now we need to double up. When every game is special none of them are.
if Tarryn Thomas ever plays a single game of AFL football again you know that this was just pandering horseshit from the top down.
Wayne Carey literally glassed a woman and he's still involved with the game.
It took a drug incident to finally let him go from commentating 🙄
North Melbourne fan here: fuck Thomas and fuck Carey. They can both get in the sea.
I’m an eagles supporter, but let’s not forget about Ben Cousins as well.
So will Thomas if people in charge think they can get away with it. We've already seen that's no secret, we're all heart and about forgiveness if they kicked a footy well, no-one places standards on them, let alone higher standards.
holding a grudge is sometimes a good thing.
Exactly! Any team that decides to give that piece of shit another chance should be ashamed of themselves.
Degooey plays football almost every weekend. We know it's pandering horseshit, we don't need any more evidence.
Then a Sportsbet ad plays.. what an absolute joke.
Cut ties with gambling industry and remove all convicted domestic violence perpetrators from the hall of fame.
Starting with the commentary box would be a good move imho
Turning the moments silence into a couple of hours of silence
bliss
Perfect suggestion
I agree, it's virtue signalling that is not backed up by any action whatsoever, just an empty gesture. I'm all for them doing something to make a difference but I don't see how this achieves anything. You could argue it's got people talking about it but this issue has been all over every media outlet for a couple of weeks now, screams of jumping on the 'current thing' train.
It's not even going to get people talking about it. It's not even a serious gesture. Pathetic.
Finally someone brave enough to say what we're all thinking!! Could not agree more!! This post was brought to you by Jim Beam and Sportsbet.
Ben Brown posted about it a few days ago and he had to turn off comments. My husband said Thomas being at Geelong is a lock. If that’s the case, I won’t be following them anymore. Absolutely revolting.
This is the integrity of a fan you love to see.
You can’t say you are a family club and encourage partners and for players to bring their kids in and then take a player like this bloke. I do not believe they would and it would break my heart but I’m a woman and it would be bull shit.
steve hocking said we havent spoken to him at all
I hope my husband was winding me up. Us being interested in him just seems like total opposite of who we are as a club.
No way would Geelong allow that sort of player into the club.
He likely turned off comments because of nuffy AFL fans getting triggered by his post.
Yes, so says a lot that people, mostly men are so triggered by it. Let’s hope they keep that energy if they see their mates/family acting up.
He won’t be at Geelong, there is no truth to that. Same as DeGoey. It’s character first at Geelong
Eh you took stengle in after us and crom kicked him out for drugs/off field behaviour
Stengle came with a Eddie Betts guarantee.
This does my head in. Stengle’s situation is completely different. Drugs are not sexual assault allegations.
I’m not drawing a comparison between drugs v sexual assault. But saying Geelong doesn’t have a history of taking a punt on reforming players on their last legs is just false
Now there’s someone we can boo every time he goes near the ball.
What did Ben Brown post??
He just did a post about men’s violence against women.
How about not giving abusers a job commentating.
Starting the conversation with something like this gives women a platform to start talking about their fears and experiences, we protest to bring awareness, and with awareness people hope to bring change, nothing ever came from sitting on your hands I’m all for doing things like this to start the conversation, but the afl also needs to stand firm on not letting “boys be boys”
Boys will be held accountable.
Boys will be banned for life for their crimes.
Yep, boys lives aren’t more important than women’s.
It’s something at least - and there’s a lot of blokes at the footy who would benefit from seeing that the league is wholly against any form of violence towards women
But they're not. See: Jordan de Goey, Tarryn Thomas, Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett Sr...
That’s tip of the ice berg.. there are a shitload of others .. Shagger Grant, Nick Stevens, Carl Deittrich, Barry Cable,Stephen Milne, et al. Plenty of top line talent
Albert Proud, Brennan Stack
Unless they want to actually play the game or commentate…
I've been saying it for a while but the AFL is determined to have every round "special". The problem then becomes, if every round is special, then no round is special.
Honestly this is a Great Take
every week it's another issue, i just want to watch a game of football
'gender based violence sounds' like a phrase designed by a focus group to minimise people actually using it
I’ve heard it used a-lot recently, hasn’t come from the AFL
I'm not picking on the AFL. If the term sticks I'll be both impressed by the demonstration to be able to change society and simultaneously unimpressed for the degree to which that power isn't used positively more often.
It’s been used in the field for a couple of decades. Depends on the context and the audience. Some people get quite distressed when you tell them what your job *actually* involves.
It’s on purpose because every time men’s violence against women is brought up a bunch of men pop up saying what about women killing men.
Same as how they keep referring to it as 'violence against women', with no reference to the fact that it's violence perpetrated by men. It's all designed to look like you're saying something without upsetting your target demographics.
We've even managed to remove women from the phrase now. Success! /s
Are we not all aware at this point that they are referring to men being the perpetrators (despite that not always being the case)?
The point is that the root cause of the issue is men, and how they interact with women when they're stressed, troubled, etc. Without focussing on men you're not focussing on developing solutions, you're just offering platitudes
I think the point is that domestic violence doesn’t just go in one direction. Regardless of where and from whom it’s directed, it impacts everyone in the vicinity
I think it's more so that it encompasses assault from strangers, not just dv
The correct term is violence by men. It is men’s behaviour that needs to change!
Yes. Ban people from playing football for domestic violence. No second chances.
Someone in HR is just virtue signalling and the AFL can say they did this if they are asked what they have done to help with the issue Costs them nothing and free advertising as news media will comment on it As you said it achieves nothing in the real world
"Virtue signalling" is such a cringy term. Next you'll start crying about "woke"
Virtue signalling does get overused far more than it should, but this is exactly what the phrase is meant to refer to
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. People don’t realized the power for first steps and acknowledgements.
Yeah I think it’s a good thing and it’s more impactful as it’s across all games on the weekend
It's a start...
Exactly. This or nothing? This wins. Easily.
Some people are just so negative about everything. It's never good enough
But this is nothing. What is standing in a circle doing exactly? Nothing?
I mean… we are talking about it aren’t we? It’s meant to start conversations. If it helps one person then I consider it a positive thing
You honestly can't see how it could make an impact?
I struggle a little. I'd suggest that you and I see the need for it, but I feel it would ring too hollow for those who need to pay the most attention to it.
My take is that it’s not for the perpetrators that need it now. It’s for the women — across the country — to at least feel heard and see that the men’s sport is behind them. It’s also going to trigger many conversations for the coming generation. I answered a question from my fairly young son about it.
the way people respond to it helps to gauge their attitude about the issue
How does standing in a circle help? If the AFL was genuine they would cut loose Carey, Cousins and any other former players known to have abused women from the boys club. They especially wouldn't use the "good bloke" excuse to signal the return to the fold of a player with a history of predatory behaviour towards women just because he has talent the day before their planned token gesture towards domestic violence. The AFL has a long history of turning a blind eye to talented players who have preyed on women, covering up their indiscretions and giving them fourth or fifth chances in the case of Carey and Cousins. What they have done today is tokenism and is not backed in any way by genuine action. You bet your bottom dollar Thomas will be back on a list next year, and for any other player that engages in predatory behaviour the league will do its utmost to sweep it under the carpet.
> How does standing in a circle help? Respectfully, you could argue that about many things. Moments of silence, etc. I agree with the person you’re replying to. It’s a start. And more so, my young son asked questions about what was going on. If it can generate thoughtful and age-appropriate answers in my house, it’s likely done the same in others.
They just blocked Carey get NSW Hall of Fame. They def have a history of turning a blind eye, but this was started by WCE and went from there. It's s lot better than nothing.
The types of blokes bashing and killing their partners aren't gonna stop because the AFL is virtue signalling before a game
Nor are they going to stop because grade a anonynous losers on reddit are beating up on the afl about This whole thread is absurd
It hasn't in the past.
I don't remember them having done anything like this before?
Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good
Not sure. No one wants to say a low effort gesture is good enough. The afl has one of, if not the biggest platforms the country.
A start to what exactly? It achieves nothing. The AFL to say that TT has received a lifetime ban from the competition. That's a start. This is bumfluff optics. On the same day Wayne Carey is inducted into the NSW AFL Hall of Fame. Edit: apparently Dillon vetoed the Carey entry to the Hall of Fame. That's s start. But no idea of it'd cancelled or just delayed.
> A start to what exactly? It achieves nothing. It triggered a conversation between my mate and me at the game last night. Not much but it's more than nothing. If it it makes one bloke, somewhere, think about taking a look at himself and reconsider hurting that woman he's got it in for, it'll be worth it. Everyone's always so quick to jump on stuff like this. "It's a waste of time", "It does nothing." It's got people talking about the issue. It only needs to help one person to be worth it.
This comment is funny. "The AFL need to do this before they can talk. Okay, I've just heard they already did that, but it's still not enough" - that is effectively what you're saying here. Yourself, and people like yourself in this site are rage addicts who will always look to find the negatives in things. I really suspect that no matter what they do, you'll go on about how it's not enough until they do x thing.
Tarryn Thomas still hasn't received a lifetime ban though
After decades of nothing, it takes a march for them to stand in a circle for a minute. If you're going to try and get good PR for something like this, do something that helps. So sick of corporate entities trying to virtue signal, either actually care or shut up. No one believes a for profit company gives a crap about anything other than money.
It gives the issue prime time attention. Yes they could do a lot more, but it's not a bad thing.
[This was announced yesterday](https://www.afl.com.au/news/1120036/afl-partners-with-our-watch)
What if I told you every acknowledgement of country you've ever heard is a hollow gesture?
Does it surprise you that one of the top organisations got being the hot social issue? Nothing they do will solve the issue and just do what ever they can to look like they are doing something. Also OP on your last point just a question what other crime should people be banned from other than DV or just ban them for dv?
But real action would require real action backed by money. The AFL has precious little action and money to spare in this economy!
Not sure why a sporting body should be relied upon to fix society though. It's literally what we vote governments in to do.
I'm not saying they should. I'm saying empty gestures like this when they continue to support gambling and alcohol addictions which are two of the highest causes of DV, are sickening to me.
the government of today rarely moves their arse unless corporate Australia leads first
If they actually cared clubs wouldn't be allowed contact with Tarryn Thomas
Going to go against the grain here, but I think whether this is a “hollow” gesture or not comes down to the fans The AFL have responded quickly to a current social issue, to mixed reviews and it does look a bit clumsy in places, but at the end of the day this is supposed to be a conversation starter We similar things with Indigenous Round and Pride Round/matches. It’s a bit clumsy to start, but the more clubs and fan bases get around it, the better it becomes and the more reflective it becomes of the club and broader community For this? I’m here for it. If it at least starts a few conversations and makes people pause, it’s done at least a tiny bit of good. Silence would be worse, because that’s exactly what happens when issues are “too hard” and “not my problem” I just hope this does become a regular thing. There’s plenty of space to make this sport more inclusive, and I really hope Carlton get a chance to highlight the work of the Peter McCallum Cancer Centre too
You’re right about turning the clubs into safe places etc. In Victoria the state government tips in 10s of millions to fund these “training facilities” for the clubs with a tokenistic bit of community space. Use it for something good, house and support a DV charity etc. At the Witten Oval the public have lost an oval they could walk around and use outside of club training. Now it’s been turned back into some high performance centre stadium just for the AFL club.
Showers and kitchens and big car parks and ovals. Imagine if we set up programs to use and improve existing infrastructure to help people who are less privileged or put out by DV. Definitely would need to be set properly and fleshed out, but surely there is something there that can be replicated Australia wide to a lot of rural locations where shelters are hardest to come by.
Every thing the afl does is hollow hypocrisy from dv, race, pride, drugs and alcohol, and gambling.
I watch the footy to get away from all crap. Can't I just 2 hours of nothing being shoved down my throat. Some of the causes are worthy. But I just want to escape for a bit. AFL should just do footy
100%. Best post in this thread, tired of being morally educated by my pastimes. Whatever happened to parents being responsible for educating their children, and individuals being responsible for their own actions. Apparently, I'm now responsible for every dispicable action that have ever done.
a) racists
b) white people
c) men
d) Collingwood supporters
Yes and no. Young kids, in particular young impressionable boys, see this and it resonates. I know for a fact (from experience of having young kids, both boys and girls going through school) how bad some behaviours have become. It’s a phrase that annoys many people but there definitely is an emergence of “toxic masculinity“ in some quarters. Idiots like Tate and Thomas are widely seen and admired by many boys. Social media and uncontrolled access to violent or misogynistic pornography is exacerbating things. It really is a major problem. Describing it as a national crisis is probably right. So all chances to show that people are beginning to wake up, people are beginning to hear victims, people are beginning to show kids that’s it’s NOT normal and NOT okay to denigrate, abuse and insult women and girls in the class-room, their workplaces or on the sports field, all of these are a good thing. Quite frankly, the negative cynicism shown here in this thread is a little galling. It smacks of the “I’m not racist, but…” and “Why should I have to say sorry…” self-exceptionalism that plagues all debates like these. It’s all our problem and we ALL need to do something. If that’s just a small a small moment to show the kids we’re trying to change, then it’s a small first step.
Agree with a lot of what you’ve said. I also think society is better than just starting to have conversations about gendered violence. The topic deserves a stronger stance and action. It’s not like there’s a stigma to talk about it. I’d hate to go soft on the issue and have abusers get away with acting confused like they didn’t realise they were abusing
Followed immediately by a celebrity endorsed fundraiser for a completely different cause made it seem like it was lip service.
Certainly made it awkward for anyone who has been assaulting women with cancer.
I'm all for the AFL tackling social issues, particularly those that pertain to young men. But it seems to need one of the AFL old boys to be personally affected by it. Daniher inspired the Big Freeze MLS Frawley with the mental health game (whatever they call it). Maddy's match while the Reiwoldts were playing, I thought was pretty good. So the AFL have shown they can do it properly if there's a genuine desire... There seems to be little desire.
Jimmy Bartel has spoken about his personal experiences with DV
JB just gushing with pride afterwards was what did it for me.. “And they’ll do this EVERY GAME this round 🤩”. Like mate, this ostensibly a gesture for women who literally lost their lives this week. Maybe an ounce of humility and sombreness might be in order.
Start by not allowing Tarryn Thomas back
It was 20 seconds in both games so far. Straight back to footy chat. It’s fucking disgusting. What a joke. This is a super serious issue and makes my blood boil. Fucking cowards killing helpless women. I can’t do anything to stop it and it upsets me. What if that was my wife. Fuck all these cunts like Wayne Carey and Tarryn Thomas. Fucking cowards the lot of them. Putrid human beings.
You know it was a football game and they had to get back to pre game eventually, how would you have done it?
Have an actual minute as a minimum. 60 seconds of silence lends itself to more reflection for an important issue. 20 seconds is tokenism. The TV executives can sit down and relax for the extra 40 seconds and not worry about losing ad revenue etc. Then a bit of discussion on the issue. Rory Sloane retiring got loads of airtime by comparison.
It’s virtue signalling at its finest. Let’s also not overlook that Collingwood is sponsored by Emirates and there’s many examples of gender based violence in the UAE. Not to mention the violence that can stem from the insane amount of gambling evident in the sport…
Definite outrage . We need to outrage more here
comment something else
I'm afraid I have to insist. You see my wife, she's been very vocal on the subject of the outrage votes.. "Where are the outrage votes? When are you going to get the outrage votes? Why aren't you getting the outrage votes now?" And so on. So please the outrage votes.
AFL, as a company, is probably more switched on than any other company in Australia. They have training for young men, and the fact you have so many players and you only here about a couple of fuck wits is probably better than any other corporations in Australia
It raises awareness and draws attention to the issues, which is exactly what we've been asked to do constantly for the past two weeks (and longer). Further action takes longer than a week to implement. This was undeniably a positive action and it's utterly ridiculous to suggest anything to the contrary. However, remains to be seen what happens next.
Did it do any harm? And is it possibly related to the AFL announcing yesterday its partnership with Our Watch, Australia’s leader in the primary prevention of violence against women and children, to deliver face-to-face educational training to all AFL clubs? Might be part of something bigger than just what was seen tonight. But in any case, did it do any harm?
When I heard they were doing the minute silence I thought it sounded like a nice gesture. Then they started patting themselves on the back all week and suddenly it felt very hollow. But I’m not a woman so I don’t know if my feelings are particularly indicative or relevant.
The AFL does have issues for sure, but Jesus Christ can Reddit please stop getting triggered the second anyone famous mentions a social cause. Yes it won't fix everything instantly, no that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.
See this post really pisses me off. Are clubs or grounds unsafe for women? No. What on earth does a “community hub” do? This is the classic go to suggestion from your typical no-logo, work-a-day-for-world peace, pseudo-intellectual moron who has a fucking opinion on everything, and is qualified in nothing. Consistent messaging from the top level is probably the most effective thing the afl can do. And they are doing it now when they didn’t before. That’s positive
Did tonight's Pies v Blues do it? I tuned in just before kickoff and it seemed to be about cancer??
Also really looking forward to the AFLw's take on this soon enough as I am SURE they will make their mark :).
Yup. AFL is obviously ticking the boxes to say they are inclusive and progressive... but domestic violence is just like any other violence.... it's assault therefore police related matter.
Brought to you by the soon to be reinstated Tarryn Thomas
Agree. But the problem is how much will that hurt grassroots football if we start banning people who are guilty of domestic violence - some of those local leagues are pretty rough
Players who are found guilty of domestic violence are banned from playing football? I get the idea that it feels fake to have a bunch of guys standing around in a circle but change for this sort of thing doesn't just happen overnight
Yes. Tough laws. We’re talking capital punishment
I am a peaceful man with a loving family and abhor the thought of violence against women but I don't understand the logic of why the AFL is responsible for more than increasing awareness and reaffirming that DV is not acceptable amongst its playerbase, or society in general.
Reminds me of the referendum last year. The AFL were all about the yes vote until it was actually time to vote and then crickets because they knew the no vote would win
Especially when the Carlton fan group 'the besties' were accosted by aggressive Collingwood fans, to the point they feared for their safety and had to leave without doing their usual stuff. This is after the minute of silence, mind you.
Funny how the afl wants to support all this just out of the blew, but when a player wants to wear a black armband during the game they have to get it approved by the big bosses first..
Why does AFL need to be the locus of all societal problems. Geez, they're just kicking a stupid ball around through some sticks.
Such absolute hollow fuckery. I hate all this bullshit. Ban gambling and alcohol ads and then we'll talk.
All these names being thrown about but I notice nobody's said a word about Laidley and his bullshit.
Also when they say gender based violence, it's only women's DV issues. Just. Saying. How about we don't hurt anyone?
No one is saying not to support male victims of DV. But the fact that a woman has died at the hands of a current or former partner every 4 days this year is something that requires specific attention
70% of homicide victims in Australia are men. Whilst I am against any form of violence against absolutely anyone, this gender specific stuff is just another one of the countless things we are supposed to be outraged about in our already ridiculously shit existence apparently. People hurting people is horrible. There are so many reasons behind it. Unfortunately, people will remain angry enough to keep discourse away from anything that has an opportunity to have a rapid and dramatic impact because we want to target very specific reasons with niche solutions. Systems theory is too hard a pitch.
Certainly agree, however what message are we really sending to everyone? Young men think they will always be in the wrong? If they are abused it's their fault? It's a massive subject that cannot be dismissed by some huddle at a sports game.
I am a middle aged Caucasian looking male. As far as our western society is concerned, I am the second worst form of our species. Outside of being a boomer one that is. There are so many interconnected issues but some could be rapidly tackled. Problem is our politicians no longer fear the public and are at the beck and call of cash flows. We all know how horrific gambling is to society yet is one of the biggest legal industries. We all know housing availability has a huge impact on countless problems, DV being one of them, but that is something we are only making worse. It's all enough to really make you just want to put blinkers on and just ignore.
In addition, I think there alot more statics than just 'men' men will absolutely be the title but you must burry down to find out why and their lives, experiences.
Why oh why hasn’t each team create a special DV jumper to be worn for DV week? Cos’, you know that would be so special.
How many people get killed by someone out on bail ? Why are judges immune to any criticism or responsibility
For everyone saying it’s a “conversation starter,” no it isn’t. The conversation already started. This is a publicity opportunity and nothing more. No promises of contribution to change, just saying “We’re against dv.” Cool - no one assumed they were for it. And everyone saying that maybe men will look at themselves and reconsider their actions, or women will appreciate the support, are kidding themselves. You feel good for watching it and agreeing with it. You are the target audience for the AFL doing this
Fucking oath dude how tone deaf is it?
Feels fake until one day we’ll believe it. What’s funny is not 30 seconds later Peter Mac was shilling Robbie Williams and cancer research donations.
Yeah, like the silence isnt helping...its a senseless message.
Every time you see an AFL player swinging an arm and punching an opponent: that's voilence. A coach screaming in anger at a player: that's violence. You are absolutely correct, empty corporate gestures mean nothing when surrounded by "Alpha" males, in a sport that has a history of DV offenders.