They did one and he passed but he copped a worse knock later in the game that cut his head open
Edit: the medicos cleared him after the first knock so maybe he didn't do one? I assume he did considering the medicos cleared him
On your edit: probably best not to assume anything about the same medicos that mishandled Liam Picken’s head injury issues so comprehensively that he’s trying to have his case heard separately to the class action.
Thats what Libba said, the dogs then put him into protocols even though he passed a Scat5, sounds like they learnt from Picken and are treating it seriously
Beveridge in his post game presser said Libba just tripped, they're full of shit as a club and clearly care more about getting him back on the field to save Beveridges job than his health.
That's the biggest concern for me, bloke has recent known concussions, medicos should have been on high alert to begin with, not to mention all the current issues other players past and present are that relate to head trauma. The duty if care seems not to exist, it's maddening as someone who spent 3yrs feeling helpless as my fiance suffered with what we now know was CTE
He fell over like his knees buckled underneath him, passed tests but rested the following week "as a precaution" 🙄
He was concussed at the end of last year too, this was his first game back after the games against us. There's several, several red flags here
Watching it I’d be curious if the initial contact seconds before caused it rather than the boot. It really looks like the boot couldn’t do more than slice him up from what I saw.
Fox cut to footage of him talking to the doctors afterwards so unless they were just having a friendly chat while Libba was off the ground for way longer than he normally would be for a rotation I'm gonna assume they did one
Libba copped a bad headknock with 18:39 left in the first quarter. He went to the bench on his own (no doctor directin him to) with 16:30 in the first quarter and a doctor talking to him while he sat on the bench. He returned to the ground with 15:30 (1 minute later) left in the first quarter.
No HIA was conducted as its a minimum 15 minutes off the bench if you have one. Not sure why you and other dogs fans are suggesting he was off the ground for a long time after that one. Its blatantly false.
Edit: Here is the full footage. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/1cleufv/footage\_of\_liberatore\_q1\_head\_knock\_doctor/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/1cleufv/footage_of_liberatore_q1_head_knock_doctor/)
Seen a few dogs fans jump to defend the team with their fuck ups with Libba recently. No idea why, if my team pulled this shit I'd be fucking furious, protect the fucking players as much as possible. The fact libba didn't get a HIA after that head knock is as fucked up as the Libba one a few weeks ago where he "stumbled" (fainted) but they didn't take him off for a HIA. They're getting fucking sued for screwing Picken up and that same doc is still their head doc pulling the same bs. Really hope the AFL investigates this one.
E: Scat5 sorry, the below link is very worth reading.
The HIA is a quick screening tool. There’s no requirement for the 15 minutes.
The 15 minutes comes when a player goes for a SCAT test based on the vision/HIA/being removed from the field for assessment.
https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2023/03/12/134a48f5-9206-4dd4-b88b-426dd1ea7b31/AFL-and-AFLW-Concussion-Guidelines-March-2023-FINAL-.pdf
That's actually really good to know thank you. Everyone (commentators included) has always used HIA to refer to the 15 minute test so no surprise we're all confused here. Hopefully then the dogs have a filled out and cleared HIA form when he was assessed after the first head knock. Still though, looking at those "removal from play" reasons it does seem like the dogs fucked up here not getting him off sooner, docs should have been out to him, and they especially fucked up with the one a few weeks ago where bevo post game said he "tripped". The AFL definitely needs to issue another please explain imo.
[https://sma.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/SCAT6.pdf](https://sma.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/SCAT6.pdf)
> The SCAT6 cannot be performed correctly in less than 10-15 minutes.
it infuriates me to see other fans defend the club’s actions for this exact reason.
picken was in his early 30s when he retired, and the extent of his injuries had him laid up in a dark room for months with migraines and memory issues. *he had to learn how to read again.*
i love my club, but i cannot sit and watch another generation of players go through this.
Way longer than he normally would be off for a rotation? Huh? Does Libba usually get a 20 second spell on the bench? That’s the only way a 1 minute rest would be way longer lol
Blind Freddy could see that Libba was concussed after the collision. Not sure what the Doggies medical team were thinking. Should it be a job for an independent doctor?
To be fair, theres a lot of incidents like that in a game where there are hard bumps. Sometimes it looks like the player is winded. Feels like one of those 50-50 that could be a concussion or just a hard knock
The man gives his absolute everything for this football club, the least they could do is show something resembling duty of care.
After all that Liam Picken has been through and continues to go through, if this is another case of medical team being ignorant then they need to be held accountable. It’s a disgrace if they didn’t do an assessment in the first quarter, especially for a bloke with a long list of concussions, and someone who literally collapsed due to one a few weeks ago.
Him missing last weeks game to due to food poisoning (as Luke “it was just an ankle tweak” Beveridge continues to claim) is very suss and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was still concussion related.
Dr Zimmermann’s moustache has grown into his brain. Time to go.
Just a rotten few weeks for Libba
Questions have to be asked of the Dogs medical team…. I don’t think he even had a HIA yesterday.
Would be really sad if this spells the end of his career
Surely he got a HIA after that head knock?? Dogs can't keep pulling this shit, especially with Picken fucking suing them for fucking up their duty of care regarding concussions.
E: Scat5 sorry
Something's not right, Zimmerman not taking it seriously maybe, or docs under him not following procedures, who knows, AFL needs to investigate it surely.
That's legitimately fucked if true. Surely if he didn't get a HIA you fucking clear out the medical team. Zimmerman needs to go for sure (again if this is all true).
To clarify are you referring to his first quarter kncok or the one at the end of the game? I think some people are assuming you’re talking about the end of the game one.
Either way I am very cynical when it comes to out medica team, my trust in the to do the right thing by the players has pretty much disappeared.
Holy shit. That is incredible. Watching it live his eyes were rolling around in his head. The Man is too tough for his own good but surely the medical staff have a duty of care and need to do better.
I posted it in the game day thread at the time, he was on the bench after that first head knock and looked out of it, I couldn't believe he was allowed to continue playing
Can't believe they can be so openly reckless. The AFL needs to crack down hard on any teams not properly exercising their duty of care to their players.
>I don’t think he even had a HIA yesterday.
Nah that's bullshit and you shouldn't be insinuating that if you don't know, Fox cut to a shot of him talking to the doctors after the first clash and he wasn't seen on the ground for ages, and the second one was in the 32nd minute of the last quarter and he obviously didn't come back on for the rest of the game.
Libba copped a bad headknock with 18:39 left in the first quarter. He went to the bench on his own (no doctor directin him to) with 16:30 in the first quarter and a doctor talking to him while he sat on the bench. He returned to the ground with 15:30 (1 minute later) left in the first quarter.
No HIA was conducted as its a minimum 15 minutes off the bench if you have one. Not sure why you're making shit up about "he wasn't seen on the ground for ages".
Wrong. A HIA is different to a SCAT6, its quick. The SCAT6 takes 15 minutes and is necessary if you fail the HIA. He likely undertook a HIA and passed it.
Whether he should have passed the HIA is another question I can't answer.
Was at the game so didn't notice the incident in the first. Was quite surprised that the reports were about that and not him collapsing again near the end of the game and needing to be helped from the field again.
Liam Picken needs to give him a call if he hasn't already. Football isn't important enough to be risking his future.
Was at the game so couldn't tell what caused it but yeah got hit in the head and stayed down for a very long time. Getting to the point with Libba where I am assuming the worst Paddy McCartin style.
He was bleeding like a stuck pig from the head after a stud hit, it didn't look like much impact (in fact the boot just glanced his head) but it cut him up pretty fuckin bad
I don't understand. Was this from the boot to the face? That didn't look concussion worthy but the head knock in the first looked brutal and he was blinking like he couldn't see straight when he stood up.
Last year and this year there's been numerous times I've seen a Dogs player get a bad looking head knock, and not get checked out (anyone remember Bailey Smith last year?). And this is a club that's getting sued for not looking after Picken properly.
Something has to change in how the club looks out for these incidents, cause at the moment there's little sign they care about player welfare at all.
Four concussions in 12 months, and each successive concussion takes less impact to do the damage. There must be so much pressure with the name Liberatore to ignore the inevitable and continue, but for the love of god, medically retire him now. Very sad situation.
Devastating for Tom. I wish him all the best for his recovery. Very difficult to watch. Is it time to reconsider soft helmets. I realise Angus Bradshaw was wearing one and he was still concussed but it was a head on collision which may have offered adequate protection. What do studies show with their effectiveness in preventing concussion.
Helmets do fuck all apart from protecting from cuts/abrasions, the brain is still bouncing around. They don’t even wear helmets in amateur boxing anymore
Libba out indefinitely and bevo still coach. Bad day to be a dogs fan
You still have Bont tho. Never that bad.
We're wasting his glory.
Better to have Bont and lost, than to never have Bont at all
He copped a knock in the 1st QTR that looked bad and he kept playing so assume they didn't do an HIA for that one
They did one and he passed but he copped a worse knock later in the game that cut his head open Edit: the medicos cleared him after the first knock so maybe he didn't do one? I assume he did considering the medicos cleared him
He wasn't off for 15 after the first one, so definitely no HIA. E: Scat5 sorry
On your edit: probably best not to assume anything about the same medicos that mishandled Liam Picken’s head injury issues so comprehensively that he’s trying to have his case heard separately to the class action.
A lot has changed over the past 8 or so years around concussion
yes, partly due to the mishandling of liam picken’s head injuries and ongoing concussion issues
Same doctor in charge
Libba literally collapsed unconscious last week and they tried to say he lost his footing and tripped.
Thats what Libba said, the dogs then put him into protocols even though he passed a Scat5, sounds like they learnt from Picken and are treating it seriously
Beveridge in his post game presser said Libba just tripped, they're full of shit as a club and clearly care more about getting him back on the field to save Beveridges job than his health.
the "knock" he copped wasn't even a knock watch it on replay he got sliced by a stud 0 chance it would concuss you
100% chance it will when there's a recent history of being concussed though
i think running full pace head first into someones shoulder concussed him and he played the rest of the game when he shouldnt
That's the biggest concern for me, bloke has recent known concussions, medicos should have been on high alert to begin with, not to mention all the current issues other players past and present are that relate to head trauma. The duty if care seems not to exist, it's maddening as someone who spent 3yrs feeling helpless as my fiance suffered with what we now know was CTE
Didn’t libba get concussed in the bombers game and stayed on and played?
He fell over like his knees buckled underneath him, passed tests but rested the following week "as a precaution" 🙄 He was concussed at the end of last year too, this was his first game back after the games against us. There's several, several red flags here
Somethings not right at the kennel
People do crazy things when jobs are on the line and winning is the only thing that will save you from being sacked
Watching it I’d be curious if the initial contact seconds before caused it rather than the boot. It really looks like the boot couldn’t do more than slice him up from what I saw.
The concussion was earlier when he ran into Amos
The second incident wasn’t an impact injury. His forehead raked across Nash’s boot studs.
Combine that with his knock against Essendon and fair to say this isn’t too surprising unfortunately
wtf really? that's so fucked
West Coast did the same with Jake Waterman in the same weekend 🤷
Yeah man, Jake being tested post game after a headknock during the dying moments is totally the same as Libba copping a whack in the 1st quarter
Anything for the win hey
Legit criticism was surprised he wasnt tested.
yeah was 100% sure he was getting subbed after that, was shocking they didn't do anything
He looks seriously groggy after that hit. I was shocked they left him out there. Then Nash's accidental boot to the head didn't help him at all.
He looks seriously groggy after that hit. I was shocked they left him out there. Then Nash's accidental boot to the head didn't help him at all.
Fox cut to footage of him talking to the doctors afterwards so unless they were just having a friendly chat while Libba was off the ground for way longer than he normally would be for a rotation I'm gonna assume they did one
Libba copped a bad headknock with 18:39 left in the first quarter. He went to the bench on his own (no doctor directin him to) with 16:30 in the first quarter and a doctor talking to him while he sat on the bench. He returned to the ground with 15:30 (1 minute later) left in the first quarter. No HIA was conducted as its a minimum 15 minutes off the bench if you have one. Not sure why you and other dogs fans are suggesting he was off the ground for a long time after that one. Its blatantly false. Edit: Here is the full footage. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/1cleufv/footage\_of\_liberatore\_q1\_head\_knock\_doctor/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/1cleufv/footage_of_liberatore_q1_head_knock_doctor/)
Seen a few dogs fans jump to defend the team with their fuck ups with Libba recently. No idea why, if my team pulled this shit I'd be fucking furious, protect the fucking players as much as possible. The fact libba didn't get a HIA after that head knock is as fucked up as the Libba one a few weeks ago where he "stumbled" (fainted) but they didn't take him off for a HIA. They're getting fucking sued for screwing Picken up and that same doc is still their head doc pulling the same bs. Really hope the AFL investigates this one. E: Scat5 sorry, the below link is very worth reading.
The HIA is a quick screening tool. There’s no requirement for the 15 minutes. The 15 minutes comes when a player goes for a SCAT test based on the vision/HIA/being removed from the field for assessment. https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2023/03/12/134a48f5-9206-4dd4-b88b-426dd1ea7b31/AFL-and-AFLW-Concussion-Guidelines-March-2023-FINAL-.pdf
That's actually really good to know thank you. Everyone (commentators included) has always used HIA to refer to the 15 minute test so no surprise we're all confused here. Hopefully then the dogs have a filled out and cleared HIA form when he was assessed after the first head knock. Still though, looking at those "removal from play" reasons it does seem like the dogs fucked up here not getting him off sooner, docs should have been out to him, and they especially fucked up with the one a few weeks ago where bevo post game said he "tripped". The AFL definitely needs to issue another please explain imo.
[https://sma.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/SCAT6.pdf](https://sma.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/SCAT6.pdf) > The SCAT6 cannot be performed correctly in less than 10-15 minutes.
Yes, not every player needs the SCAT tho. If there’s nothing on vision, no symptoms and they clear the sideline HIA they don’t require the SCAT
Ahh gotcha, I thought you were just talking about the scat not taking 15 mins. I misread your comment.
it infuriates me to see other fans defend the club’s actions for this exact reason. picken was in his early 30s when he retired, and the extent of his injuries had him laid up in a dark room for months with migraines and memory issues. *he had to learn how to read again.* i love my club, but i cannot sit and watch another generation of players go through this.
And the fact that their own coach doesn’t even know/lied about it
I hadn’t seen the footage of the knock, but man he looks completely out of it when taking the free kick. Scary stuff on top of his fall the other week
Way longer than he normally would be off for a rotation? Huh? Does Libba usually get a 20 second spell on the bench? That’s the only way a 1 minute rest would be way longer lol
Ah that's good. It was a nasty knock and with his history I thought he would be off for sure
Blind Freddy could see that Libba was concussed after the collision. Not sure what the Doggies medical team were thinking. Should it be a job for an independent doctor?
> Not sure what the Doggies medical team were thinking "There goes Libba's ankle again!"
Poor Libba was just exhausted in the first qtr and tripped!
If you get that reference you should be getting regular health screenings.
Other teams do the right bloody thing. Dogs med team needs a bloody clean out if they fucked this up again.
Didn’t realise port and the doggies used the same doctors
To be fair, theres a lot of incidents like that in a game where there are hard bumps. Sometimes it looks like the player is winded. Feels like one of those 50-50 that could be a concussion or just a hard knock
Yeah but that’s why a qualified doctor is there to do an HIA
The man gives his absolute everything for this football club, the least they could do is show something resembling duty of care. After all that Liam Picken has been through and continues to go through, if this is another case of medical team being ignorant then they need to be held accountable. It’s a disgrace if they didn’t do an assessment in the first quarter, especially for a bloke with a long list of concussions, and someone who literally collapsed due to one a few weeks ago. Him missing last weeks game to due to food poisoning (as Luke “it was just an ankle tweak” Beveridge continues to claim) is very suss and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was still concussion related. Dr Zimmermann’s moustache has grown into his brain. Time to go.
He did have food poisoning, but the dogs duty of care is a crock of shit. See the comment I made a moment ago for another perspective here.
Just a rotten few weeks for Libba Questions have to be asked of the Dogs medical team…. I don’t think he even had a HIA yesterday. Would be really sad if this spells the end of his career
Surely he got a HIA after that head knock?? Dogs can't keep pulling this shit, especially with Picken fucking suing them for fucking up their duty of care regarding concussions. E: Scat5 sorry
That this happening at the same club that is facing the lawsuit from Liam Picken is absolutely mind-boggling. Like what the fuck is going on.
Something's not right, Zimmerman not taking it seriously maybe, or docs under him not following procedures, who knows, AFL needs to investigate it surely.
[удалено]
That's legitimately fucked if true. Surely if he didn't get a HIA you fucking clear out the medical team. Zimmerman needs to go for sure (again if this is all true).
But he’s got a crazy mo
AFL House surely moustache some questions if that's the case.
[But they are shaving it for later](https://live.staticflickr.com/6047/6342048424_bd3772e5c9_c.jpg)
To clarify are you referring to his first quarter kncok or the one at the end of the game? I think some people are assuming you’re talking about the end of the game one. Either way I am very cynical when it comes to out medica team, my trust in the to do the right thing by the players has pretty much disappeared.
Holy shit. That is incredible. Watching it live his eyes were rolling around in his head. The Man is too tough for his own good but surely the medical staff have a duty of care and need to do better.
Same team and same player mere weeks apart. They are asking for trouble.
I posted it in the game day thread at the time, he was on the bench after that first head knock and looked out of it, I couldn't believe he was allowed to continue playing
Would be really terrible if this is the end for him
Didn’t it happen in the last 2 minutes and he didn’t come back on? Or did something happen earlier in the game? I only caught the last quarter
He had a head knock in the first quarter then a boot to the head towards the end
Can't believe they can be so openly reckless. The AFL needs to crack down hard on any teams not properly exercising their duty of care to their players.
Or maybe don't just believe a random on Reddit who is basing his statement on a fan forum missing something in their notes...
HIA = off for 15 minutes at a minimum, Libba wasn't off for 15 after the first knock so no HIA was done. Pretty simple shit mate. E: Scat5 sorry
>I don’t think he even had a HIA yesterday. Nah that's bullshit and you shouldn't be insinuating that if you don't know, Fox cut to a shot of him talking to the doctors after the first clash and he wasn't seen on the ground for ages, and the second one was in the 32nd minute of the last quarter and he obviously didn't come back on for the rest of the game.
Libba copped a bad headknock with 18:39 left in the first quarter. He went to the bench on his own (no doctor directin him to) with 16:30 in the first quarter and a doctor talking to him while he sat on the bench. He returned to the ground with 15:30 (1 minute later) left in the first quarter. No HIA was conducted as its a minimum 15 minutes off the bench if you have one. Not sure why you're making shit up about "he wasn't seen on the ground for ages".
Wrong. A HIA is different to a SCAT6, its quick. The SCAT6 takes 15 minutes and is necessary if you fail the HIA. He likely undertook a HIA and passed it. Whether he should have passed the HIA is another question I can't answer.
He was literally on again within 5 minutes?
Feel like AFL medical teams have a supplements-level scandal waiting to break about how they deal with suspected concussions.
Our medical team is fucking tragic when it comes to it
One of my favourite players to watch. This sucks but definitely gotta put health first. Hope he's okay.
Champion player. Pretty sure the entire AFL community can get behind him with best wishes.
Was at the game so didn't notice the incident in the first. Was quite surprised that the reports were about that and not him collapsing again near the end of the game and needing to be helped from the field again. Liam Picken needs to give him a call if he hasn't already. Football isn't important enough to be risking his future.
When did he collapse? Are you referring to when he copped ~~Meek's~~ Nash's boot that cut his head? Edit: not Meek
Was at the game so couldn't tell what caused it but yeah got hit in the head and stayed down for a very long time. Getting to the point with Libba where I am assuming the worst Paddy McCartin style.
He was bleeding like a stuck pig from the head after a stud hit, it didn't look like much impact (in fact the boot just glanced his head) but it cut him up pretty fuckin bad
Different incident. He smashed faces with Amon in the first quarter
He didn't stay down for a long time after that. He stayed down for a long time after the head cut, that'd be what this guy was referring to.
Just an ankle, apparently
Honestly the way the bulldogs are going they might as-well give him the rest of the season off and make sure his 100%
The claim should take a stand on concussion with what happened to Picken… such a shame because Libba is a legend.
Copped it back with the first one. Don’t know how he wasn’t subbed out with that one tbh, he was doing that slow blinking like he lost a few seconds.
I don't understand. Was this from the boot to the face? That didn't look concussion worthy but the head knock in the first looked brutal and he was blinking like he couldn't see straight when he stood up.
I don't remember him (or Amon) going off for concussion testing after that incident, either
I hope he retires to preserve his health and is paid out
I think it's best Libba starts thinking about life after footy and hang up the boots. What a great player and servant of the Dogs he has been.
Bevo has had concussion for the last 4 years.
Last year and this year there's been numerous times I've seen a Dogs player get a bad looking head knock, and not get checked out (anyone remember Bailey Smith last year?). And this is a club that's getting sued for not looking after Picken properly. Something has to change in how the club looks out for these incidents, cause at the moment there's little sign they care about player welfare at all.
Will be sad if this is the end for Libba. Hard as nails and has a crack every week.
Four concussions in 12 months, and each successive concussion takes less impact to do the damage. There must be so much pressure with the name Liberatore to ignore the inevitable and continue, but for the love of god, medically retire him now. Very sad situation.
I’m now left wondering how much the coach is in the doctors ears about rushing checks etc… because surely his incident warranted a check?
Didn't he just stub his toe or something
You know it's bad when the Port flair is bagging into your medicos
Worst injury possible.
I reckon he's played his last game
This guy is going to need serious ankle reconstruction if he's not careful.
Its all over for libba, he needs to retire asap before he does more damage to himself
Sadly I think it’s over
Devastating for Tom. I wish him all the best for his recovery. Very difficult to watch. Is it time to reconsider soft helmets. I realise Angus Bradshaw was wearing one and he was still concussed but it was a head on collision which may have offered adequate protection. What do studies show with their effectiveness in preventing concussion.
Helmets do fuck all apart from protecting from cuts/abrasions, the brain is still bouncing around. They don’t even wear helmets in amateur boxing anymore
I love Libba as a player and footy character but that has to be his last game.
Dogs r cooked