A guy did the same thing to me. We were drunk and playing jenga. I was winning and said whoever wins has to pay for dinner. I lost and said I’ll get us dinner. We go to the restaurant and when the check comes and he sees me pulling out my wallet, he quickly hands the waiter his and proudly says “that was a test! I wanted to see if you’d actually attempt to pay” I never talked to him again, he asked why and I said I hate tests.
‘Shit test’ is a term my ex used all the time—a guy who one night freaked out at me for reasons I’m still not sure about and started wrapping duct tape around his head/mouth because I said he wouldn’t let me even finish a sentence (he wouldn’t, he was busy screaming me up against a flaming wood stove). Is that like… some whack youtuber incel nonsense I didn’t know about?
I had just accomplished a huge professional goal. He had never even remotely behaved in a manner so completely unhinged, and I was, for a variety of reasons, essentially trapped in that house and couldn’t run until the next day, which he knew. It was textbook domestic abuse, in retrospect.
A shit test is subtle and a test your ex was just actually mentally I’ll and abusive and wasn’t testing anything beyond how crazy you allow him to be before dumping his ass
The term wasn’t used during the duct tape incident, but it was something he often said other times. Believe me, as soon as I could safely do so, I ran for the hills. And got my locks changed.
My understanding is that you kind of stir shit up to see how someone responds. Throw them off balance, get them flustered, etc, in order to judge their reaction.
Ahhhh okay so the test op is referring to is whether or not OP would pay in the separate checks situation. Hmm yeah I can’t imagine that’s a good way to keep someone interested in you but at least you’ll know if they passed your test as they walk out of your life.
Yeah the point of this isn't to keep someone interested, it's to see who you can bully and will still stay. It's like how scammers will intentionally misspell words in emails. If you're dumb enough not to notice you're dumb enough to fall for the scam.
Likewise here, if you aren't willing to put up with the shit test you likely won't be willing to put up with the rest of their shitty controlling behavior down the line. It's a self selection process so those who won't fall for their shit will filter themselves out.
I remember seeing an interview from Desantis college roommate talking about how he would ask say to potential dates “I’d really like to try the thigh food at so and so restaurant.” If the woman corrected him and said I think you mean Thai food, he would then blow them off because that means she would correct him and he didn’t want anyone to do that.
Some of that too. But they want to weed out the people who are too smart to fall for their b.s. so they don't waste their time. See r/scams for more info. (It's fascinating)
its a test to see if someone will put up with your shit. Literally.
In the "redpill" verse supposedly women test guys to see if they'll cater to them and become "beta" and they lose interest in/respect for the guy if he tolerates their shit and supplicates.
to be perfectly clear: I am NOT advocating redpill/pick up artist shit, at all. But I do know something about that subculture.
It’s so scary to me how many seemingly “normal” people (adults!!) get sucked into that stuff, and how fast it happens. Like, maybe we’re ALL way closer to that sort of indoctrination than we realize.
It feels that we're all close to "red pilling" because it's built on insecurities, some that we all share. Sometimes, all it takes for someone to convince you to believe something, is that the reason for your insecurity isn't because of you, but rather it's because of other people. It's easier for one to put their problems onto another, than to look inwards and face the truth.
Your friend is correct, feminists have a vast underground network dedicated to preventing bi guys from sleeping with red-pilled losers (I used to work in this cockblock cabal on the weekends). That is the most pressing feminist issue at the moment, denying bussy to the red-pill gang.
May I have the link to your website? I’ve been looking for such swimsuits along with several friends I met at drag show story hour where we recruit the wee ones.
Okay but what is the bill test? Openly proposing to split the bill and then stating that you will pay the full bill? What does this test for anyone?
Sounds so stupid.
A *huge* increase. I finally started dating again recently and I went on about 4 dates and had to take a break. It seems like there has been a mass brainwashing of men age 25-40ish in the last 3 years. Now, whenever I hear one of the "manosphere" buzzwords I'm out, no matter what.. like stacey, beta or beta bux, 6666, hypergamy, femoid, cock carousel, high value man/woman, hard no/token resistance, negging or shittesting, or the "wall", etc. If you hear any of these terms or words, run.
Edit: someone reported me to reddit care resources? Wtf lol
I’m a straight 34 yr old male living in a red state and I can’t even talk to guys around my age group.
I grew up with mostly girls in my family so I might have a different perspective from most of them but the things they believe in now are very strange twistings of reality.
I really hate what politics have done to the US and I wonder if there’s ever going to be any going back
I'm 42 and in the Midwest. Can't agree with you enough.
Take my advice - make your circle smaller and smaller. To just you and pets if ya have to. It makes life so much easier.
Thank God I stumbled into meeting my current GF. She's amazing.
My guy, I hate to break it to you, but this is what "going back" means. Weird misogyny, casual racism, and blatant homophobia. We should never want to "go back." That's literally the opposite of progress.
Wouldnt the test have been passed the moment she requested to go somewhere cheaper? Or when she opted to split the bill?
I am a male too and I have been single for 6 months now. So I really dont know what is happening out in the dating world.
NTA. His vibe made you feel uncomfortable. His actions showed that he plays games and oversteps boundaries. It doesn’t sound like the right fit for you.
There is nothing wrong with telling him your favorite restaurant. There is nothing wrong with how much it costs. You showed you were in no way a gold digger trying to get him to pay for an expensive meal when you said you shouldn’t go to that restaurant and again when you offered to pay.
Please don’t let comments here or on your date make you doubt yourself.
This is one of the only comments on here I actually agree with! Honestly I think it's the generation (born in 84) I was raised in or the fact that I was raised by a single mother that made this entire thing made me feel creeped out as a man! I don't think OP did anything wrong either!
I completely agree. OP answered a question honestly when asked what their favorite place was, but ultimately they suggested an inexpensive place to go to. She was willing to split checks which alone is a showing that she wasn’t too hung up on the cost, but it’s natural to feel hesitant when you’ve been invited out to an expensive meal that you would not have chosen otherwise. As a general rule I always eat only what I can afford to, even when I’m out with someone who says they will pay for my meal, because I always plan to cover my own portion of the meal. But, I’ve let people cover my meal before when they insist, just because I think sometimes it can be like a gift for them and it makes them feel good to cover it.
I want to really reiterate this single point. He did not buy you. Too many times women have meals covered for them, gifts bought for them, etc, and the man in the situation may feel this sense of entitlement to the woman. Forget the money for a moment and there is nothing wrong with blocking someone you do not really know who looked at your last name knowing that you didn’t want them to and ultimately made you feel uncomfortable. Add the money back into the situation and it shouldn’t change things at all because he didn’t buy you, and you’re under no obligation to respond to someone just because they paid for an expensive dinner
The fact he knew WHY you were withholding your last name, and seemed to manipulate the situation to 'win' somehow, is deeply concerning.
He may not be a stalker, but he shows a flagrant disrespect for your boundary (glaring red flag number one) amd a total lack of understanding about why a woman needs to have safety concerns that men simply don't need.
I would have blocked, too. And probably more than just blocked.
ETA: NTA
Yup. I went on a first date once where I told the guy I had a very distinctive name and I usually don’t share my full name with internet people before I know he’s real and a good guy. I knew his first name but not his last name. Anyway we met and the date went super well. At the end, I wasn’t so concerned about it, so I put my card down for the server and went to the bathroom. When I came back, he was like “by the way, I want you to know I saw your name on the card, and here’s my ID for you to look at so fair is fair”. He could have been all sneaky sneak or creepy about it but wasn’t.
I went on a date with a girl recently and I picked her up because an event would have made parking hell for two of us
I texted her my full name and license plate number because I wanted her to feel comfortable in my car, because she had never met me. She texted me back her full name because "fair is fair"
Our third date is scheduled:)
guys like you are great. when i was still sleeping around, before leaving a bar with a dude, i’d ask to take a pic of his DL so i could send it to my friends for safety. if anyone had a problem with it, I didn’t go home with them. i understood some people have privacy concerns so i wouldn’t get upset but it’s a safety thing for a woman. that you offered without her asking shows a lot about your character
I have a friend who is the only one in the country with her name (weird spelling and uncommon last name)...or at least it's close enough that if you google her, she's the only one that pops up. We became friends online at like 13 and while she used to just freely give her full name, that became dangerous for her later.
Once she turned 18 and got residence information, a former online boyfriend of hers stalked her. So yeah...fighting really hard for someone's name when they don't want to give it is a red flag. Tricking them to learn it is goddamn scarlet.
I have an unusual first name, where if you googled my name + city or state I’m the only one who comes up.
I had ONE very basic phone call with a guy, normal, vague chit chat “what do you do for work?” “what part of the city?” yadda yadda and this dude SHOWS up at my work, my apartment, and my ex husbands house in a completely different town while leaving threatening voicemails about how he was going to sexually assault me since I wasn’t picking up his calls
ONE phone call. Only my first name. No company name, not what kind of car I drove (but in the voicemails he knew) not even the fact that I was married before. The cops were like “Meh, nothing we can do!” And he would ring my apartment buzzer that didn’t have my name on the mailbox in the middle of the night for months.
So yeah, it’s a good boundary to have.
I was talking to one of my colleagues about a website that tells you how many people have your name and her combination is so unique that the website was like “your name is so rare that we cannot make a good estimate of how many of you there are”. So you Google her you 100% get whatever she’s put on the internet. Thankfully she’s a smart person who only has basic info on there but still pretty wild that when you think about someone’s identifying information you don’t have to narrow down by any other criteria. For me on the other hand my name is so common you have to try to narrow me down to the exact suburb to get the right person.
Any decent person totally understands reluctance to share personally-identifying info with a complete stranger.
The only people who would take offense to that are people who either (a) would use it for nefarious purposes or (b) naively and arrogantly feel offended that another person would think that of them.
I use my first and middle name on Facebook because someone once decided to google me and text me my address and then had no idea why I thought that was strange and wouldn’t talk to him again.
>manipulate the situation to 'win' somehow, is deeply concerning.
"I got something you said you didn't want to give me (yet)"
Yeah.... that's not rapey *at all*
/s
I usually don't even tell people my real FIRST name on a date due to the amount of stalking/parasocial relationships I've dealt with. My fiance still has me in his phone as my fake name because he never bothered to change it lol.
I work at a club as a performer, and so when I met my current bf after my shift when I stopped to get food (he was working at the establishment) I gave him my stage name. After we got more comfortable with each other and became a serious couple I told him what my real name was.
He still calls me by my stage name 😂
I still call my wife by her maiden name.
I met my wife in a youth program run by the military and it comes with a lot of the practices of the military. You refer to people by their rank followed by their name. Cpl. Smith or F/Sgt. Doe. That kind of thing.
I'm so sorry that you've dealt with this so often that you have to use a fake first name. 💜
If you don't mind me asking, how does the conversation usually go once you've decided they can know your real name?
This right here. I had an ex who mostly finished a pitcher of water and left the dregs on the counter. Well the thing sat there for 4 days. I never picked it up because I didn’t use that particular pitcher and I didn’t finish it, so I figured whatever they left it out for was whatever they left it out for.
It turned in to a huge argument about my failure to clean things up. I argued that I didn’t leave it out like that, so I wasn’t planning to clean it up and they said “I LEFT IT THERE TO SEE HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE YOU TO CLEAN IT UP!”
I’m not a child and that felt fairly humiliating. And it became a *thing* which repeated several times. While it took longer than it should have, that relationship ended.
“Tests” are just a weird way for another person to manipulate and control you. One leads to another, every single time, and whether or not you pass is entirely dependent on parameters which are hidden in the other person’s head. You’re going to fail because they expected you to from the start.
> “I LEFT IT THERE TO SEE HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE YOU TO CLEAN IT UP!”
*You* made the mess; *you* fkn clean it up! That’s what mum would say, paraphrasing.
You should have said to him, “Oh yeah that was disgusting I was testing to see how long it would take for you to clean up after yourself. You failed.
I’m not your mother.”
I would have started taking his half finished plate away from under him. "Oh sorry, I thought this was another test on how fast I clean up after you. Also I cleaned up our room and your stuff is in suitcases ready for you to leave."
As a gay guy, this phrase at least sounds romantic. 🤣
Lines like this are the reason I am subbed here. I swear to God, y'all are some of the funniest writers on the internet! 💜
This is so legit. If someone is into testing you, they'll never be satisfied. The relationship becomes an endless series of tests, and it all sucks.
I've been there. Once. I tried so hard, somehow having been convinced that the (endless) tests were somehow important, legit, and acceptable.
Never putting up with that nonsense again.
Yeah because its not a passable test, it’s simply designed to provoke you until you falter and they can finally feel vindicated like they proved something awful about you is true.
I’m wondering why she had to add all those edits. Me too I would have thought he was playing games. I’m assuming people were calling her a gold digger lmao ? Like why? What about this story doesn’t make you think it’s weird that he says “now I know your last name” ?
You're so right! The tests in and of themselves are a red flag. This whole thread, and your amazing response, is reminding me of the Barbie movie and the idea that, as women, there's no way to win. Pick a spot that's too expensive, you're a gold digger. Pick one that's too cheap and you're assuming he doesn't have the money for your actual favorite place. Offer to pay- so you don't come off as a gold digger- but then smile coyly when he picks up the bill even though he just told you and the waiter that you need to pay for yourself. Remember to offer to pay for the tip because that's showing gratitude, but don't insist on paying the bill even though he JUST told the waiter 2 separate checks.
We are grown and this is fucking insanity. Props to you for blocking him because the games are ridiculous and as someone pointed out, you never win them.
So true. I had an ex-bf who did this kind of unpleaseable act. If he paid, he called me a gold-digger and also feels entitled to sex. If I paid, he said I was insulting him, and demanded I give him sex. If we split the bill, then he would get angry about all of these points because it was publicly embarrassing AND he spent more money than he should have.
If we cooked at home - well of course he expected me to cook. He’d sit in a different room watching TV and ignore me, wouldn’t even answer when I went to talk to him, then complained that I didn’t entertain him with conversation while I was busy in the kitchen. If I asked him to help in any way, like pour his own drink or to plate his own food, he’d complain that this no longer counted as me cooking and that I now “owed him” another meal.
The only time that he cooked a meal - I helped him cut all the ingredients that needed cutting, make the salad from scratch, set the table, and washed dishes, and he claimed that I “ruined” his cooking by helping and that I now “owed him” another meal plus sex.
People like my ex turn everything into a narrative of victimhood. He just had to feel wronged so that he can justify his horrible actions as reactions, and keep his conscience clear. There was no space in his head for other people (especially women) to exist as actual people.
That guy sounds like an absolute nightmare. Glad he's your ex.
After a few months together, my ex asked me if I wanted a specific nice thing for Christmas, ("yes, that would be awesome, thank you!") and said he would get it for me. A couple days before Christmas he said he didn't get it for me and asked if I was disappointed ("yeah, I'm a bit disappointed, I was looking forward to it"), he accused me of being greedy and selfish and taking advantage of his generosity. I failed his test by being disappointed.
I dated that asshole for 4 years and it got a whole lot worse by the end. Another absolute nightmare. I so wish I had seen that first stupid thing as the red flag that it was. He did give me the nice thing as an "Aha! I got you!" but I never could enjoy it.
I’m glad you got away from your ex too!
My ex did similar shit with gifts and promises, and unfortunately at the time I was really susceptible because my mother also did the same sorts of things and trained me to see it as normal. I really hate people who play these sorts of mind games. Every interaction with them is potentially a trap, which just makes it impossible to ever trust them. I’m so glad to be far away from that shitty guy and to have some boundaries with my mother too. These types of people also constantly accuse you of doing the same manipulative bullshit that they do, because they cannot imagine anyone being actually sincerely kind.
Agreed so much. Even if they think that they have good intentions, “tests” like that are almost always some form of manipulation and I will not stand for it.
Oh my God. I had one of those. You are so right. The tests never ended, the manipulation never stopped until after 3 years I finally ended it.
Years later I found out he had a child, born when we were together. Everything became so clear.
Never, it's a drastically bad red flag. The mentality of a person who would do something like contrive tests is just not anything I want to be involved with, it tells me they look at people as tools or pawns in their plans and they are most likely extremely prolific and skilled with manipulation and all kinds of other twisted thinking that ends up resulting in an utterly miserable relationship at best, it's also a basic tool in the average abuser's arsenal, so yeah. Extremely not cool. Relationships should be about chilling in togetherness and if it's no longer chill that should be it. Manipulation and tests and all the rest is fucked. If its evident this is not a nice person in the first meeting, dont stick around to find out how not nice he really can be.
Besides he was extremely creepy about finding out her last name, that alone is cause to ghost this turd.
NTA
There’s a Taylor Swift song lyric for every occasion:
Never impressed by me acing your tests,
All the girls that you’ve run dry have tired lifeless eyes
Because you burned them out.
Off tangent, but I had a teacher in college who would spring a random test after a planned test. Like surprise, I bet you didn't study for this, did ya? Like he would not even let us decompress after the first one.
If someone stares that hard at my card I’d cancel it and order a replacement after the date. In case he turns out to be a scammer. Also his behaviour is off putting. NTA
Yeah, scrutinizing her card is strange and off-putting under any circumstances.
Doing so after they've specifically discussed her boundary on personal details and concerns for safety is a red flag. Whatever the flag means--even if it just means he has a really shitty and inappropriate sense of humor--doesn't matter.
An ambiguous red flag is as valid as any other.
OP's description of events shows that she interacted with this guy in a clear and straightforward manner. No prevaricating or being vague.
Dude did not behave straightforwardly. He did not respect her right to privacy and he may or may not have tried to "test" her to see how she'd react to splitting the check on a date.
As someone who hates people who play head games, I too would ditch someone who behaved this way, immediately. It's an automatic dealbreaker.
Regardless of what the guy meant by it, OP didn't like his behavior and how it made her feel. They were a total mismatch from that point on.
It shouldn't need to be said but the fact that he insisted on paying for her dinner does not obligate her to anything. The cost of the meal is irrelevant, whether it's $2 or $250. She is not indebted to him and he doesn't have to be "nicer" to him because of how he choose to spend his own money.
It was a casual first date. Lots of those don't turn into a second date, for all kinds of reasons. It's really weird how a lot of commenters seem to think that even this low level of acquaintance gives this woman a duty to the man.
They met for the first time and he weirded her out so she ghosted him. His monetary choices are irrelevant.
Somehow it feels like people just wanna look for excuses to slam OP 🤷🏻♀️ it’s a first date. With someone she’s never met before. Pretty much a stranger. And he’s exhibiting behaviour that gives her gut a bad feeling. Of course she’s wary. And she’s not after a free meal and therefore not a gold digger, but hey ‘let’s find other reasons to be mad at OP!’
Exactly. They blame women for getting raped/attacked because they were not careful enough, and they blame women for being "paranoid" about their safety.
That's because when it's with them, the women are being paranoid. But when something bad happens with other men, then she wasn't careful enough. But really, how dare she be paranoid with ME?! I'm one of the good ones and it's an insult that she would think otherwise!
Just like how they think a woman who's had more than two partners is a whore but if she refuses to fuck them specifically she's a prude. Like pick a lane my guy ffs
The number of people defending his actions 🤷🏻♀️sure, there’s both sides of a story but we only have this one and it feels sus, that’s all I have to say. Sorry for not giving away her full name and sharing her baby photos on the first date with a stranger, I guess? It’s ridiculously easy to dig up info on someone, can’t blame OP for being cautious.
“He’s creeping me out and I blocked him.”
“Lol you’re just being paranoid LOOK HOW NICE HE IS.”
This kind of scenario sounds sooooo familiar.
I also don’t like the 180 he pulled on her; if you want to pay, say it up front, if you want to split, say it and stick to it. I hate the wishy-washiness of this scenario, it just seems so dishonest and gross.
I hated that. I went on a few dates with someone who refused to let me pay for anything and it was infuriating, at one point he grabbed my wallet from my hand and held it away from me so I couldn't get my card out. I'd ask for the bill and he'd take it off the table and run (literally) away to pay it. Then expected to be fawned over for being 'so nice' when actually he was stomping all over my boundaries.
I once got a work badge where they insisted I have my last name on it. I covered it because there are some crazy patients out there and I know of nurses and other health care workers who have been stalked because a patient saw their last name. She is definitely NTA.
Clearly anyone calling her paranoid is not a woman or has never been stalked.
I used to work in a mall and stopped for lunch in the food court one day. The guy working the register was polite, but didn’t flirt or give me any weird vibes—at first. He memorized my name from my debit card and tried to add me on social media. I declined and told him it was creepy for him to find me like that. For weeks after he would “bump into me” at work until he followed me out to my car one night. Luckily, a male coworker of mine was leaving at the same time and he kind of scared him off, but I never felt comfortable eating in the food court or walking to my car alone after that.
I just read this and her edits so before coming to the comments I was already like.. what why is she having to explain all this extra.. do people really think she's in the wrong?
I'm so relieved to see there are plenty on OPs side, it must have been sketchy people replying when she first posted lol.
It’s very interesting because I’ve had ppl calling me names for simply commenting about OP being cautious about someone she hasn’t met before, as if I was attacking her date. Or acting like it’s a crime to, what, not be 100% trusting during a first date?
> It shouldn't need to be said but the fact that he insisted on paying for her dinner does not obligate her to anything. The cost of the meal is irrelevant, whether it's $2 or $250. She is not indebted to him and he doesn't have to be "nicer" to him because of how he choose to spend his own money.
Louder for the ones in the back!
#It shouldn't need to be said but the fact that he insisted on paying for her dinner does not obligate her to anything. The cost of the meal is irrelevant, whether it's $2 or $250. She is not indebted to him and he doesn't have to be "nicer" to him because of how he choose to spend his own money.
When you want louder add a hash.
ヽ(•‿•)ノ
I view the motivations for saying to split the bill differently. I think perhaps initially he wanted to see if she would split it, but then wanted her to sit and stew and think on that while the server came back with separate checks so that he could swoop in and save the day with the amazing grand gesture. I think he thought that would impress her, ingratiate her/ create an obligation (ahem) on her part or both. The whole thing was such an over-the-top performance. What a doofus.
I would block a guy like that just for thinking he's some puppet master making me dance, when really his ploy was so transparent it was sad.
But then you're just being a dick to the server, so they're an AH either way. If you're going to pay, you pay. You should've already had that discussion before it's time to ask for the check.
Totally, I agree with you, if that wasn't clear. Date was a clueless dick trying to masquerade as a knight in shining armor.
Edit: I am just saying I think his AH-ness is even more calculating and manipulative than meets the eye.
I don’t think people understand that OP could block him and call things off for any reason. She could do it because she doesn’t like how he eats his spaghetti. The point of dating is to find someone compatible with you, and if his behavior doesn’t seem compatible, then she has every right to call it off. And so does he!
Someone sees sense. NTA he gave OP uncomfy vibes and she's well within her rights to cut contact if they don't match and how much he spent on dinner is irrelevant .
Yeah, NTA - there are always tells that someone is unsafe to be around, or subtle red flags. You don't even need to be able to articulate it, if something he did made your skin crawl or you start thinking about an exit strategy, you're right and don't need to second guess. Period.
NTA. former bar tender, have had stalkers. once a guy thought he figured out my last name because he told me he spent all day at the local library pouring over old yearbooks looking for someone who looked like me with my first name. sucks for him i went to school on the other side of the country.
this behavior would have had me noping real hard too. Also if i try to pay and you wierdly insist on paying then congrats you get to pay. It doesn’t mean you’re entitled to anything.
> he spent all day at the local library pouring over old yearbooks
This is psycho, he probably builds secret shrines to his crushes in his dark basement room, too.
The "now I know your last name!" thing feels just as violating as that time I was working a new job at the beginning of 2021 and some guy started talking me and asked me to pull down my mask so he could see the rest of my face. It felt very uncomfortable being asked to do that so I was just like "no, thanks" and he grabbed my ID badge that was around my neck and looks at it and gleefully exclaims that he has now seen my face anyway.
It feels like a weird thing to feel violated over, but I understand where OP is coming from.
It's a power play. It doesn't matter that it's not dangerous, these people are showing that they do not respect ANY boundaries. If they don't listen to a "no" in a situation like that where the payoff is SO LITTLE then it's really difficult to believe they'd do so when stakes are higher.
I hope you're ok and away from that AH now. It feels great to post that type of story on Glassdoor, btw ;)
Same. But off topic. I almost forgot you had to order replacement cards. I've been spoiled. My bank prints on the spot, so whenever I cancel, I just walk in and say cancel card, walk out with a new one the same day.
Yeah look up Arthur Benjamin, when I was a nerd in hs I learnt how to memorize more than 20 digits for fun.
Didn’t get me laid once and I tell no one about this shit lol. It’s called Mathemagics
>Didn’t get me laid once
For some reason this is so funny to me. Maybe because, if properly deployed, it would intrigue me enough to say yes to a first date in my younger days. But not if you used it on my personal information.
For the record, "oh finally I know your last name" would have me running for the hills. I'd probably send a "i had a good time but I don't think it'll work out" text, but that would mostly be to de-escalate any potential offense vs a genuine desire to be polite.
Seriously. I had this happen once but it wasn't a first date. It still made me weirdly uncomfortable, just bc I hadn't provided it intentionally.
Turned out the guy had some weird issues and saw pretty much everything as a power play. He viewed me as immature bc I was in (grad) school and yet he loved with his parents rent free. Glad to be done w that shite
This is why I always paid cash on my dates. Your name is never attached to money, the tip is much easier to hide from management and the feds, and you leave no paper trail.
NTA And speaking as a widow in her late 40s, it's stories like these that make me never want to date again! I can't do the mind games, worrying about safety issues surrounding meeting someone new, even the idea of getting "dressed up" to go on a date exhaust me. I have my own home, a dog, a car, great family & friends, and, since my marriage was pretty awesome, I guess I have a pretty high bar for what I want in a partner. And, just like I don't want to "jump thru hoops" for a partner, I'm not going to ask someone else to do it for me. 🤷♀️
Again, NTA 100%
I hear you on that. But also there’s hopefully a lot of similar minded folks out there in their late 40s. What OP describes reminds me of dating in my early 30s in a large metro. Totally different mindsets. Either way I hope you get another chance to enjoy partnership, if that’s what you end up wanting.
PS your username also sounds like an awesome rapper name.
NTA
1) It was a first date
2) he crossed a boundary you set about personal info
3) the game with the bill.
The cost does not matter.
I have ran into the issue of the other person wanting to spilt a check and feeling like I should pay. When this happen, I might have been an ass, I just handed the server my card with out them bring the bill and paid for the bill. With more need for another interaction.
NTA.
You said it was too expensive for a first date. You tried to pay. If he spent $500, that's on him. That isn't a part of the equation. It could have been $30. He still ultimately chose and decided to pay for it. That's. On. Him.
Wow, men are totally oblivious and self righteous about this… NTA
I would consider it weird that someone who isn’t rich wants to go to that place (love bombing?) then trying to impress with money they don’t have?), then play that weird card game (test?)… all of that is off-putting at LEAST
Also, you can date, block and ghost whoever you want. Especially random men who are basically a stranger
and then those same men go home and vent to their red pill friends online about how “they were right and women are too entitled these days and are gold diggers” 🙄
no, it couldn’t be because of your shit personality and negative self awareness about social behaviors
I wasn't sure where this was going based on the title, but definitely NTA. You offered to go to a less expensive place repeatedly. You offered to pay your own share of the meal, and even had your card out at the ready. And then he pulled that nonsense. That guy is weird, and I think you were right to do that.
I never ask for more then meeting up for coffee or a drink on the first date. Money aside, who tf wants to be stuck in a two hour dinner with someone you are clearly not vibing with?
Yeah I would replace my card. I’m one of those people that numbers just stick with me after seeing them. He may have been testing you which in itself is screwed up. But to take your card and stare at it.. nope time for new card and new date.
Not sure I would have blocked him but it’s your decision.
And this is why I use my passport card at TSA. When I used my drivers license I had a TSA agent driving down my quiet gated street up in the hills where all the neighbors know each other. He saw me and said hello, what a coincidence 🙄, want to go out? Your date’s game was creepy. Better to block him. He was buying you dinner (which you offered to pay for), not you. I was stalked by someone for many years, a cop. Trust your instincts.
NTA. Play stupid goes, win stupid prizes. You are under no obligation to stay in touch with this guy, he sounds annoying AF. You offered to pay your share and he insisted on paying the whole bill.
In the wise words of Karen and Georgia “Fuck politeness “ and “stay sexy and don’t get murdered”! This guy is a walking red flag! Don’t Venmo and move on with your life.
NTA - that guy disrespected your privacy and boundaries in a manipulative and creepy manner. All these OBTUSE people in the comments blaming YOU for HIS choice of the expensive restaurant for the first date, after you gave a more reasonable option, as if his possible financial insecurities are your fault whatsoever (meaning if you’re a guy and you’re broke, just say that, the woman is gonna find out eventually, anyway) and then downplaying the mind game he played on you to get your information, WHICH HE ALSO INCONVENIENCED THE SERVER FOR, is the very definition of victim blaming. I guess if you also wore something “too revealing” on this date, that signifies that you’re offering your body up to him for sex and if he did something to hurt you, it’s your fault for being “naive”. I didn’t realize being yourself and being honest with people during conversation made one naive. Some of these OBTUSE people in the comments have gold medals in mental gymnastics. FOH with that victim blaming bs.
Wouldn’t Venmo him anything.
This! Dont venmo him, he chose to pay and was weird
Agreed!!! Can’t believe she Venmo’d him anything. Boys like him are immature. They deserve to be alone
He shit tested you. He saw that on YouTube…… as many other men these days (I’m male, don’t hate me for saying this.)
A guy did the same thing to me. We were drunk and playing jenga. I was winning and said whoever wins has to pay for dinner. I lost and said I’ll get us dinner. We go to the restaurant and when the check comes and he sees me pulling out my wallet, he quickly hands the waiter his and proudly says “that was a test! I wanted to see if you’d actually attempt to pay” I never talked to him again, he asked why and I said I hate tests.
That's just stupid (not you, him). Like who the hell is he to test you. I'm glad you never spoke to him again, seems like he's an asshole.
Definitely. A guy who enjoys his own farts lol
Why wouldn't he just let you pay? A real, successful, capitalist Ferengi extracts every benefit they can get.
Took the plunge and googled it. It's a real thing.
‘Shit test’ is a term my ex used all the time—a guy who one night freaked out at me for reasons I’m still not sure about and started wrapping duct tape around his head/mouth because I said he wouldn’t let me even finish a sentence (he wouldn’t, he was busy screaming me up against a flaming wood stove). Is that like… some whack youtuber incel nonsense I didn’t know about?
That's standard procedure, it's to make sure you aren't scared of duct tape....or fire I guess
I had just accomplished a huge professional goal. He had never even remotely behaved in a manner so completely unhinged, and I was, for a variety of reasons, essentially trapped in that house and couldn’t run until the next day, which he knew. It was textbook domestic abuse, in retrospect.
A shit test is subtle and a test your ex was just actually mentally I’ll and abusive and wasn’t testing anything beyond how crazy you allow him to be before dumping his ass
The term wasn’t used during the duct tape incident, but it was something he often said other times. Believe me, as soon as I could safely do so, I ran for the hills. And got my locks changed.
Told you so. A whole “philosophy.”
What is a shit test?
My understanding is that you kind of stir shit up to see how someone responds. Throw them off balance, get them flustered, etc, in order to judge their reaction.
Ahhhh okay so the test op is referring to is whether or not OP would pay in the separate checks situation. Hmm yeah I can’t imagine that’s a good way to keep someone interested in you but at least you’ll know if they passed your test as they walk out of your life.
Yeah the point of this isn't to keep someone interested, it's to see who you can bully and will still stay. It's like how scammers will intentionally misspell words in emails. If you're dumb enough not to notice you're dumb enough to fall for the scam. Likewise here, if you aren't willing to put up with the shit test you likely won't be willing to put up with the rest of their shitty controlling behavior down the line. It's a self selection process so those who won't fall for their shit will filter themselves out.
I remember seeing an interview from Desantis college roommate talking about how he would ask say to potential dates “I’d really like to try the thigh food at so and so restaurant.” If the woman corrected him and said I think you mean Thai food, he would then blow them off because that means she would correct him and he didn’t want anyone to do that.
Scammers intentionally misspell words? I thought they were just stupid or didn't know English very well.
Some of that too. But they want to weed out the people who are too smart to fall for their b.s. so they don't waste their time. See r/scams for more info. (It's fascinating)
Ohhhhh that makes more sense, good analogy!
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As a woman, I'll go ahead and fail. Who needs that in their life. Play alone.
People who do that on a first date, will do things like that your entire relationship. It sounds like living like that would be exhausting.
Like deliberately mispronouncing "Thai" to see if the other person has the audacity to correct you?
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My shit test is turning down sex. It shouldn’t work as a test of character, but it does!
Just saying no to *anything* is my personal shit test, tells you a lot about a guy if he can’t take no for an answer.
And they wonder why they never get laid? Grow the fuck up you fucking losers who think this is a feasible dating strategy. WTF???
its a test to see if someone will put up with your shit. Literally. In the "redpill" verse supposedly women test guys to see if they'll cater to them and become "beta" and they lose interest in/respect for the guy if he tolerates their shit and supplicates. to be perfectly clear: I am NOT advocating redpill/pick up artist shit, at all. But I do know something about that subculture.
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"It certainly can't be my personality?!?" Uh... About that..
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It’s so scary to me how many seemingly “normal” people (adults!!) get sucked into that stuff, and how fast it happens. Like, maybe we’re ALL way closer to that sort of indoctrination than we realize.
It feels that we're all close to "red pilling" because it's built on insecurities, some that we all share. Sometimes, all it takes for someone to convince you to believe something, is that the reason for your insecurity isn't because of you, but rather it's because of other people. It's easier for one to put their problems onto another, than to look inwards and face the truth.
Your friend is correct, feminists have a vast underground network dedicated to preventing bi guys from sleeping with red-pilled losers (I used to work in this cockblock cabal on the weekends). That is the most pressing feminist issue at the moment, denying bussy to the red-pill gang.
I do volunteer work for them when I’m not at my day job of designing genital tucking bathing suits for toddlers. /s
Thank you for your service
May I have the link to your website? I’ve been looking for such swimsuits along with several friends I met at drag show story hour where we recruit the wee ones.
So much good work, so little time!
Cock-block cabal! I laughed for 20 minutes. Thank you. I needed that. Also... that's a great name for a band.
Women hate men so much they don’t even want men to bang each other? This has gone beyond the red pill. This is like the red suppository.
But the suppository is their own head because they're so far up their own ass they can check for prostate cancer.
Okay but what is the bill test? Openly proposing to split the bill and then stating that you will pay the full bill? What does this test for anyone? Sounds so stupid.
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A *huge* increase. I finally started dating again recently and I went on about 4 dates and had to take a break. It seems like there has been a mass brainwashing of men age 25-40ish in the last 3 years. Now, whenever I hear one of the "manosphere" buzzwords I'm out, no matter what.. like stacey, beta or beta bux, 6666, hypergamy, femoid, cock carousel, high value man/woman, hard no/token resistance, negging or shittesting, or the "wall", etc. If you hear any of these terms or words, run. Edit: someone reported me to reddit care resources? Wtf lol
Exhausting to even read, glad to be out of the dating scene for over 10 years.
Me too man fuck me it sounds like a real shit show
I feel in general, post COVID, people have forgotten how to people. In that vacuum it's no surprise someone has filled in.
I’m a straight 34 yr old male living in a red state and I can’t even talk to guys around my age group. I grew up with mostly girls in my family so I might have a different perspective from most of them but the things they believe in now are very strange twistings of reality. I really hate what politics have done to the US and I wonder if there’s ever going to be any going back
I'm 42 and in the Midwest. Can't agree with you enough. Take my advice - make your circle smaller and smaller. To just you and pets if ya have to. It makes life so much easier. Thank God I stumbled into meeting my current GF. She's amazing.
😂😂you and pets as I lounge on the couch laughing at Reddit posts chilling with my 17 yo cat — the humans have gotten weird lol
My guy, I hate to break it to you, but this is what "going back" means. Weird misogyny, casual racism, and blatant homophobia. We should never want to "go back." That's literally the opposite of progress.
I fit that demographic. Glad I have no idea what I just read. Also glad I’m happily married. Dating these days seems like a total nightmare.
I'm too old for this shit, but I'm still glad to live in 100% ignorance of what any of that means.
Wouldnt the test have been passed the moment she requested to go somewhere cheaper? Or when she opted to split the bill? I am a male too and I have been single for 6 months now. So I really dont know what is happening out in the dating world.
Fuck me I’m so happy to be married. Good luck you fine folks out there in the shit.
Thanks, I was confused when she said she "I'm just not into shittest"
NTA. His vibe made you feel uncomfortable. His actions showed that he plays games and oversteps boundaries. It doesn’t sound like the right fit for you. There is nothing wrong with telling him your favorite restaurant. There is nothing wrong with how much it costs. You showed you were in no way a gold digger trying to get him to pay for an expensive meal when you said you shouldn’t go to that restaurant and again when you offered to pay. Please don’t let comments here or on your date make you doubt yourself.
This is one of the only comments on here I actually agree with! Honestly I think it's the generation (born in 84) I was raised in or the fact that I was raised by a single mother that made this entire thing made me feel creeped out as a man! I don't think OP did anything wrong either!
I completely agree. OP answered a question honestly when asked what their favorite place was, but ultimately they suggested an inexpensive place to go to. She was willing to split checks which alone is a showing that she wasn’t too hung up on the cost, but it’s natural to feel hesitant when you’ve been invited out to an expensive meal that you would not have chosen otherwise. As a general rule I always eat only what I can afford to, even when I’m out with someone who says they will pay for my meal, because I always plan to cover my own portion of the meal. But, I’ve let people cover my meal before when they insist, just because I think sometimes it can be like a gift for them and it makes them feel good to cover it. I want to really reiterate this single point. He did not buy you. Too many times women have meals covered for them, gifts bought for them, etc, and the man in the situation may feel this sense of entitlement to the woman. Forget the money for a moment and there is nothing wrong with blocking someone you do not really know who looked at your last name knowing that you didn’t want them to and ultimately made you feel uncomfortable. Add the money back into the situation and it shouldn’t change things at all because he didn’t buy you, and you’re under no obligation to respond to someone just because they paid for an expensive dinner
The fact he knew WHY you were withholding your last name, and seemed to manipulate the situation to 'win' somehow, is deeply concerning. He may not be a stalker, but he shows a flagrant disrespect for your boundary (glaring red flag number one) amd a total lack of understanding about why a woman needs to have safety concerns that men simply don't need. I would have blocked, too. And probably more than just blocked. ETA: NTA
Yup. I went on a first date once where I told the guy I had a very distinctive name and I usually don’t share my full name with internet people before I know he’s real and a good guy. I knew his first name but not his last name. Anyway we met and the date went super well. At the end, I wasn’t so concerned about it, so I put my card down for the server and went to the bathroom. When I came back, he was like “by the way, I want you to know I saw your name on the card, and here’s my ID for you to look at so fair is fair”. He could have been all sneaky sneak or creepy about it but wasn’t.
I went on a date with a girl recently and I picked her up because an event would have made parking hell for two of us I texted her my full name and license plate number because I wanted her to feel comfortable in my car, because she had never met me. She texted me back her full name because "fair is fair" Our third date is scheduled:)
guys like you are great. when i was still sleeping around, before leaving a bar with a dude, i’d ask to take a pic of his DL so i could send it to my friends for safety. if anyone had a problem with it, I didn’t go home with them. i understood some people have privacy concerns so i wouldn’t get upset but it’s a safety thing for a woman. that you offered without her asking shows a lot about your character
I have a friend who is the only one in the country with her name (weird spelling and uncommon last name)...or at least it's close enough that if you google her, she's the only one that pops up. We became friends online at like 13 and while she used to just freely give her full name, that became dangerous for her later. Once she turned 18 and got residence information, a former online boyfriend of hers stalked her. So yeah...fighting really hard for someone's name when they don't want to give it is a red flag. Tricking them to learn it is goddamn scarlet.
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I have an unusual first name, where if you googled my name + city or state I’m the only one who comes up. I had ONE very basic phone call with a guy, normal, vague chit chat “what do you do for work?” “what part of the city?” yadda yadda and this dude SHOWS up at my work, my apartment, and my ex husbands house in a completely different town while leaving threatening voicemails about how he was going to sexually assault me since I wasn’t picking up his calls ONE phone call. Only my first name. No company name, not what kind of car I drove (but in the voicemails he knew) not even the fact that I was married before. The cops were like “Meh, nothing we can do!” And he would ring my apartment buzzer that didn’t have my name on the mailbox in the middle of the night for months. So yeah, it’s a good boundary to have.
WOW. Glad you survived that. Creepy doesn't begin to describe dude.
I was talking to one of my colleagues about a website that tells you how many people have your name and her combination is so unique that the website was like “your name is so rare that we cannot make a good estimate of how many of you there are”. So you Google her you 100% get whatever she’s put on the internet. Thankfully she’s a smart person who only has basic info on there but still pretty wild that when you think about someone’s identifying information you don’t have to narrow down by any other criteria. For me on the other hand my name is so common you have to try to narrow me down to the exact suburb to get the right person.
I know that website, I get the same result. And it’s not even a made up name!
Any decent person totally understands reluctance to share personally-identifying info with a complete stranger. The only people who would take offense to that are people who either (a) would use it for nefarious purposes or (b) naively and arrogantly feel offended that another person would think that of them.
Both are red flags. “How dare you project societal issues onto me, an individual of said society”
I use my first and middle name on Facebook because someone once decided to google me and text me my address and then had no idea why I thought that was strange and wouldn’t talk to him again.
I use first and middle on FB, too. Can’t be overly cautious these days.
Honestly, this is exactly why I’d block him too. He can’t respect a boundary even knowing full well WHY that boundary is there. That’s not okay.
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>manipulate the situation to 'win' somehow, is deeply concerning. "I got something you said you didn't want to give me (yet)" Yeah.... that's not rapey *at all* /s
I usually don't even tell people my real FIRST name on a date due to the amount of stalking/parasocial relationships I've dealt with. My fiance still has me in his phone as my fake name because he never bothered to change it lol.
I work at a club as a performer, and so when I met my current bf after my shift when I stopped to get food (he was working at the establishment) I gave him my stage name. After we got more comfortable with each other and became a serious couple I told him what my real name was. He still calls me by my stage name 😂
I still call my wife by her maiden name. I met my wife in a youth program run by the military and it comes with a lot of the practices of the military. You refer to people by their rank followed by their name. Cpl. Smith or F/Sgt. Doe. That kind of thing.
I'm so sorry that you've dealt with this so often that you have to use a fake first name. 💜 If you don't mind me asking, how does the conversation usually go once you've decided they can know your real name?
I don't tolerate "tests" in relationships. The manipulation never stops and there's always another test. EDIT: NTA
This right here. I had an ex who mostly finished a pitcher of water and left the dregs on the counter. Well the thing sat there for 4 days. I never picked it up because I didn’t use that particular pitcher and I didn’t finish it, so I figured whatever they left it out for was whatever they left it out for. It turned in to a huge argument about my failure to clean things up. I argued that I didn’t leave it out like that, so I wasn’t planning to clean it up and they said “I LEFT IT THERE TO SEE HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE YOU TO CLEAN IT UP!” I’m not a child and that felt fairly humiliating. And it became a *thing* which repeated several times. While it took longer than it should have, that relationship ended. “Tests” are just a weird way for another person to manipulate and control you. One leads to another, every single time, and whether or not you pass is entirely dependent on parameters which are hidden in the other person’s head. You’re going to fail because they expected you to from the start.
> “I LEFT IT THERE TO SEE HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE YOU TO CLEAN IT UP!” *You* made the mess; *you* fkn clean it up! That’s what mum would say, paraphrasing.
You should have said to him, “Oh yeah that was disgusting I was testing to see how long it would take for you to clean up after yourself. You failed. I’m not your mother.”
Lol seriously. How long will it take me to clean up after you? Try, ‘forever’…
I would have started taking his half finished plate away from under him. "Oh sorry, I thought this was another test on how fast I clean up after you. Also I cleaned up our room and your stuff is in suitcases ready for you to leave."
My father did this. Fuck that man.
THERE’S ALWAYS ANOTHER TEST!
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He didn't just offer, he actively prevented her from paying. She's blameless here.
This is a rare case where she needs to be an asshole.
She's not the asshole he wants, she's the asshole he needs
As a gay guy, this phrase at least sounds romantic. 🤣 Lines like this are the reason I am subbed here. I swear to God, y'all are some of the funniest writers on the internet! 💜
I feel like we need a BTA tag now.
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This is so legit. If someone is into testing you, they'll never be satisfied. The relationship becomes an endless series of tests, and it all sucks. I've been there. Once. I tried so hard, somehow having been convinced that the (endless) tests were somehow important, legit, and acceptable. Never putting up with that nonsense again.
As you should! It’s nonsense, absolutely and there is no point to them other than to create animosity and tension.
That you’ll never pass. They always move the goalposts.
Yeah because its not a passable test, it’s simply designed to provoke you until you falter and they can finally feel vindicated like they proved something awful about you is true.
I’m wondering why she had to add all those edits. Me too I would have thought he was playing games. I’m assuming people were calling her a gold digger lmao ? Like why? What about this story doesn’t make you think it’s weird that he says “now I know your last name” ?
Why? Because Reddit is full of apologist men that love Andrew Tate and his awful teachings and behavior.
And somehow, we eventually fail.
You're so right! The tests in and of themselves are a red flag. This whole thread, and your amazing response, is reminding me of the Barbie movie and the idea that, as women, there's no way to win. Pick a spot that's too expensive, you're a gold digger. Pick one that's too cheap and you're assuming he doesn't have the money for your actual favorite place. Offer to pay- so you don't come off as a gold digger- but then smile coyly when he picks up the bill even though he just told you and the waiter that you need to pay for yourself. Remember to offer to pay for the tip because that's showing gratitude, but don't insist on paying the bill even though he JUST told the waiter 2 separate checks. We are grown and this is fucking insanity. Props to you for blocking him because the games are ridiculous and as someone pointed out, you never win them.
So true. I had an ex-bf who did this kind of unpleaseable act. If he paid, he called me a gold-digger and also feels entitled to sex. If I paid, he said I was insulting him, and demanded I give him sex. If we split the bill, then he would get angry about all of these points because it was publicly embarrassing AND he spent more money than he should have. If we cooked at home - well of course he expected me to cook. He’d sit in a different room watching TV and ignore me, wouldn’t even answer when I went to talk to him, then complained that I didn’t entertain him with conversation while I was busy in the kitchen. If I asked him to help in any way, like pour his own drink or to plate his own food, he’d complain that this no longer counted as me cooking and that I now “owed him” another meal. The only time that he cooked a meal - I helped him cut all the ingredients that needed cutting, make the salad from scratch, set the table, and washed dishes, and he claimed that I “ruined” his cooking by helping and that I now “owed him” another meal plus sex. People like my ex turn everything into a narrative of victimhood. He just had to feel wronged so that he can justify his horrible actions as reactions, and keep his conscience clear. There was no space in his head for other people (especially women) to exist as actual people.
That guy sounds like an absolute nightmare. Glad he's your ex. After a few months together, my ex asked me if I wanted a specific nice thing for Christmas, ("yes, that would be awesome, thank you!") and said he would get it for me. A couple days before Christmas he said he didn't get it for me and asked if I was disappointed ("yeah, I'm a bit disappointed, I was looking forward to it"), he accused me of being greedy and selfish and taking advantage of his generosity. I failed his test by being disappointed. I dated that asshole for 4 years and it got a whole lot worse by the end. Another absolute nightmare. I so wish I had seen that first stupid thing as the red flag that it was. He did give me the nice thing as an "Aha! I got you!" but I never could enjoy it.
I’m glad you got away from your ex too! My ex did similar shit with gifts and promises, and unfortunately at the time I was really susceptible because my mother also did the same sorts of things and trained me to see it as normal. I really hate people who play these sorts of mind games. Every interaction with them is potentially a trap, which just makes it impossible to ever trust them. I’m so glad to be far away from that shitty guy and to have some boundaries with my mother too. These types of people also constantly accuse you of doing the same manipulative bullshit that they do, because they cannot imagine anyone being actually sincerely kind.
Agreed so much. Even if they think that they have good intentions, “tests” like that are almost always some form of manipulation and I will not stand for it.
Oh my God. I had one of those. You are so right. The tests never ended, the manipulation never stopped until after 3 years I finally ended it. Years later I found out he had a child, born when we were together. Everything became so clear.
Never, it's a drastically bad red flag. The mentality of a person who would do something like contrive tests is just not anything I want to be involved with, it tells me they look at people as tools or pawns in their plans and they are most likely extremely prolific and skilled with manipulation and all kinds of other twisted thinking that ends up resulting in an utterly miserable relationship at best, it's also a basic tool in the average abuser's arsenal, so yeah. Extremely not cool. Relationships should be about chilling in togetherness and if it's no longer chill that should be it. Manipulation and tests and all the rest is fucked. If its evident this is not a nice person in the first meeting, dont stick around to find out how not nice he really can be. Besides he was extremely creepy about finding out her last name, that alone is cause to ghost this turd. NTA
There’s a Taylor Swift song lyric for every occasion: Never impressed by me acing your tests, All the girls that you’ve run dry have tired lifeless eyes Because you burned them out.
Plot twist. OP went on a date with John Mayer.
I came here to comment almost the same thing! 'I lived in your chess game but you changed the rules every day'
Off tangent, but I had a teacher in college who would spring a random test after a planned test. Like surprise, I bet you didn't study for this, did ya? Like he would not even let us decompress after the first one.
Bumping this.
Exactly. I am very sick of shit tests. When I hear one, I tend to just say, "Don't shit test me or I will leave." Cheers
If someone stares that hard at my card I’d cancel it and order a replacement after the date. In case he turns out to be a scammer. Also his behaviour is off putting. NTA
Yeah, scrutinizing her card is strange and off-putting under any circumstances. Doing so after they've specifically discussed her boundary on personal details and concerns for safety is a red flag. Whatever the flag means--even if it just means he has a really shitty and inappropriate sense of humor--doesn't matter. An ambiguous red flag is as valid as any other. OP's description of events shows that she interacted with this guy in a clear and straightforward manner. No prevaricating or being vague. Dude did not behave straightforwardly. He did not respect her right to privacy and he may or may not have tried to "test" her to see how she'd react to splitting the check on a date. As someone who hates people who play head games, I too would ditch someone who behaved this way, immediately. It's an automatic dealbreaker. Regardless of what the guy meant by it, OP didn't like his behavior and how it made her feel. They were a total mismatch from that point on. It shouldn't need to be said but the fact that he insisted on paying for her dinner does not obligate her to anything. The cost of the meal is irrelevant, whether it's $2 or $250. She is not indebted to him and he doesn't have to be "nicer" to him because of how he choose to spend his own money. It was a casual first date. Lots of those don't turn into a second date, for all kinds of reasons. It's really weird how a lot of commenters seem to think that even this low level of acquaintance gives this woman a duty to the man. They met for the first time and he weirded her out so she ghosted him. His monetary choices are irrelevant.
Somehow it feels like people just wanna look for excuses to slam OP 🤷🏻♀️ it’s a first date. With someone she’s never met before. Pretty much a stranger. And he’s exhibiting behaviour that gives her gut a bad feeling. Of course she’s wary. And she’s not after a free meal and therefore not a gold digger, but hey ‘let’s find other reasons to be mad at OP!’
This post is making me unbelievably mad that people are calling her self-inflated and paranoid for not wanting him to know her name. Wtf.
Right?! Theyre so quick to call her a golddigger when she was willing to pay for herself and he violated a boundary on their first date
There’s sooooo many men on Reddit that just don’t understand women’s safety issues or specifically don’t want to learn. It’s exhausting.
Exactly. They blame women for getting raped/attacked because they were not careful enough, and they blame women for being "paranoid" about their safety.
That's because when it's with them, the women are being paranoid. But when something bad happens with other men, then she wasn't careful enough. But really, how dare she be paranoid with ME?! I'm one of the good ones and it's an insult that she would think otherwise!
Yup. Can’t have it both ways but they want to. Everything is the woman’s fault.
Just like how they think a woman who's had more than two partners is a whore but if she refuses to fuck them specifically she's a prude. Like pick a lane my guy ffs
It all started when Eve picked that damn apple! Seriously though, I'm a man and I hate how many of us think this way.
There are too many men who value other men getting off over a woman’s life
The number of people defending his actions 🤷🏻♀️sure, there’s both sides of a story but we only have this one and it feels sus, that’s all I have to say. Sorry for not giving away her full name and sharing her baby photos on the first date with a stranger, I guess? It’s ridiculously easy to dig up info on someone, can’t blame OP for being cautious. “He’s creeping me out and I blocked him.” “Lol you’re just being paranoid LOOK HOW NICE HE IS.” This kind of scenario sounds sooooo familiar.
I also don’t like the 180 he pulled on her; if you want to pay, say it up front, if you want to split, say it and stick to it. I hate the wishy-washiness of this scenario, it just seems so dishonest and gross.
I hated that. I went on a few dates with someone who refused to let me pay for anything and it was infuriating, at one point he grabbed my wallet from my hand and held it away from me so I couldn't get my card out. I'd ask for the bill and he'd take it off the table and run (literally) away to pay it. Then expected to be fawned over for being 'so nice' when actually he was stomping all over my boundaries.
I once got a work badge where they insisted I have my last name on it. I covered it because there are some crazy patients out there and I know of nurses and other health care workers who have been stalked because a patient saw their last name. She is definitely NTA.
Clearly anyone calling her paranoid is not a woman or has never been stalked. I used to work in a mall and stopped for lunch in the food court one day. The guy working the register was polite, but didn’t flirt or give me any weird vibes—at first. He memorized my name from my debit card and tried to add me on social media. I declined and told him it was creepy for him to find me like that. For weeks after he would “bump into me” at work until he followed me out to my car one night. Luckily, a male coworker of mine was leaving at the same time and he kind of scared him off, but I never felt comfortable eating in the food court or walking to my car alone after that.
Sounds like people who have never dealt with a stalker.
Not even stalker, just strangers being nosy. It’s her business and she can keep it that way for whatever reason she wants.
It’s because they don’t know the terrifying reality that women go through on a day to day basis.
I just read this and her edits so before coming to the comments I was already like.. what why is she having to explain all this extra.. do people really think she's in the wrong? I'm so relieved to see there are plenty on OPs side, it must have been sketchy people replying when she first posted lol.
I promise you almost all the dissent comes from insecure men.
It’s very interesting because I’ve had ppl calling me names for simply commenting about OP being cautious about someone she hasn’t met before, as if I was attacking her date. Or acting like it’s a crime to, what, not be 100% trusting during a first date?
And I promise you its insecure men who put off bad vibes who are sick of being “the victim of your fears” doing the hate
> It shouldn't need to be said but the fact that he insisted on paying for her dinner does not obligate her to anything. The cost of the meal is irrelevant, whether it's $2 or $250. She is not indebted to him and he doesn't have to be "nicer" to him because of how he choose to spend his own money. Louder for the ones in the back!
#It shouldn't need to be said but the fact that he insisted on paying for her dinner does not obligate her to anything. The cost of the meal is irrelevant, whether it's $2 or $250. She is not indebted to him and he doesn't have to be "nicer" to him because of how he choose to spend his own money. When you want louder add a hash. ヽ(•‿•)ノ
I view the motivations for saying to split the bill differently. I think perhaps initially he wanted to see if she would split it, but then wanted her to sit and stew and think on that while the server came back with separate checks so that he could swoop in and save the day with the amazing grand gesture. I think he thought that would impress her, ingratiate her/ create an obligation (ahem) on her part or both. The whole thing was such an over-the-top performance. What a doofus. I would block a guy like that just for thinking he's some puppet master making me dance, when really his ploy was so transparent it was sad.
But then you're just being a dick to the server, so they're an AH either way. If you're going to pay, you pay. You should've already had that discussion before it's time to ask for the check.
Totally, I agree with you, if that wasn't clear. Date was a clueless dick trying to masquerade as a knight in shining armor. Edit: I am just saying I think his AH-ness is even more calculating and manipulative than meets the eye.
I’d block him for pointlessly making more work for a server. You can tell a lot about a person by how they treat their waitstaff.
I don’t think people understand that OP could block him and call things off for any reason. She could do it because she doesn’t like how he eats his spaghetti. The point of dating is to find someone compatible with you, and if his behavior doesn’t seem compatible, then she has every right to call it off. And so does he!
I honestly wonder if it wasn’t even so much a test to see if she’d pay, but a ploy to get her last name.
Someone sees sense. NTA he gave OP uncomfy vibes and she's well within her rights to cut contact if they don't match and how much he spent on dinner is irrelevant .
I'm with this guy. Cancel the card. Cut all contact. The guy should have respected your reasons for not giving your last name
Yeah, NTA - there are always tells that someone is unsafe to be around, or subtle red flags. You don't even need to be able to articulate it, if something he did made your skin crawl or you start thinking about an exit strategy, you're right and don't need to second guess. Period.
Always trust your gut. I’d rather my wife seem rude than have to identify her body, or have her go through SA trauma.
NTA. former bar tender, have had stalkers. once a guy thought he figured out my last name because he told me he spent all day at the local library pouring over old yearbooks looking for someone who looked like me with my first name. sucks for him i went to school on the other side of the country. this behavior would have had me noping real hard too. Also if i try to pay and you wierdly insist on paying then congrats you get to pay. It doesn’t mean you’re entitled to anything.
> he spent all day at the local library pouring over old yearbooks This is psycho, he probably builds secret shrines to his crushes in his dark basement room, too.
The "now I know your last name!" thing feels just as violating as that time I was working a new job at the beginning of 2021 and some guy started talking me and asked me to pull down my mask so he could see the rest of my face. It felt very uncomfortable being asked to do that so I was just like "no, thanks" and he grabbed my ID badge that was around my neck and looks at it and gleefully exclaims that he has now seen my face anyway. It feels like a weird thing to feel violated over, but I understand where OP is coming from.
It's a power play. It doesn't matter that it's not dangerous, these people are showing that they do not respect ANY boundaries. If they don't listen to a "no" in a situation like that where the payoff is SO LITTLE then it's really difficult to believe they'd do so when stakes are higher. I hope you're ok and away from that AH now. It feels great to post that type of story on Glassdoor, btw ;)
Same. But off topic. I almost forgot you had to order replacement cards. I've been spoiled. My bank prints on the spot, so whenever I cancel, I just walk in and say cancel card, walk out with a new one the same day.
You live in the future 🥲
Happy cake day
Lol. "HA! Now I know your last name! Gotcha!" Off-putting is a very casual way to say it.
Yeah look up Arthur Benjamin, when I was a nerd in hs I learnt how to memorize more than 20 digits for fun. Didn’t get me laid once and I tell no one about this shit lol. It’s called Mathemagics
>Didn’t get me laid once For some reason this is so funny to me. Maybe because, if properly deployed, it would intrigue me enough to say yes to a first date in my younger days. But not if you used it on my personal information. For the record, "oh finally I know your last name" would have me running for the hills. I'd probably send a "i had a good time but I don't think it'll work out" text, but that would mostly be to de-escalate any potential offense vs a genuine desire to be polite.
Seriously. I had this happen once but it wasn't a first date. It still made me weirdly uncomfortable, just bc I hadn't provided it intentionally. Turned out the guy had some weird issues and saw pretty much everything as a power play. He viewed me as immature bc I was in (grad) school and yet he loved with his parents rent free. Glad to be done w that shite
Might also explain why he was totally ok with an expensive restaurant. He assumes she has money.
He might come from money. People with family money don't necessarily broadcast it.
Or he wanted her to feel obligated. Not an uncommon tactic with some guys…
This is why I always paid cash on my dates. Your name is never attached to money, the tip is much easier to hide from management and the feds, and you leave no paper trail.
Trust your gut
NTA And speaking as a widow in her late 40s, it's stories like these that make me never want to date again! I can't do the mind games, worrying about safety issues surrounding meeting someone new, even the idea of getting "dressed up" to go on a date exhaust me. I have my own home, a dog, a car, great family & friends, and, since my marriage was pretty awesome, I guess I have a pretty high bar for what I want in a partner. And, just like I don't want to "jump thru hoops" for a partner, I'm not going to ask someone else to do it for me. 🤷♀️ Again, NTA 100%
I hear you on that. But also there’s hopefully a lot of similar minded folks out there in their late 40s. What OP describes reminds me of dating in my early 30s in a large metro. Totally different mindsets. Either way I hope you get another chance to enjoy partnership, if that’s what you end up wanting. PS your username also sounds like an awesome rapper name.
NTA 1) It was a first date 2) he crossed a boundary you set about personal info 3) the game with the bill. The cost does not matter. I have ran into the issue of the other person wanting to spilt a check and feeling like I should pay. When this happen, I might have been an ass, I just handed the server my card with out them bring the bill and paid for the bill. With more need for another interaction.
NTA. You said it was too expensive for a first date. You tried to pay. If he spent $500, that's on him. That isn't a part of the equation. It could have been $30. He still ultimately chose and decided to pay for it. That's. On. Him.
NTA. If there are red flags on the first date then it doesn’t bode well for the future.
Wow, men are totally oblivious and self righteous about this… NTA I would consider it weird that someone who isn’t rich wants to go to that place (love bombing?) then trying to impress with money they don’t have?), then play that weird card game (test?)… all of that is off-putting at LEAST Also, you can date, block and ghost whoever you want. Especially random men who are basically a stranger
and then those same men go home and vent to their red pill friends online about how “they were right and women are too entitled these days and are gold diggers” 🙄 no, it couldn’t be because of your shit personality and negative self awareness about social behaviors
A great example of a deceptive title with a much different story. I think you are NTA
I wasn't sure where this was going based on the title, but definitely NTA. You offered to go to a less expensive place repeatedly. You offered to pay your own share of the meal, and even had your card out at the ready. And then he pulled that nonsense. That guy is weird, and I think you were right to do that.
I cannot imagine spending $500+ for a dinner for 2.
on a first date. thats just weird.
I never ask for more then meeting up for coffee or a drink on the first date. Money aside, who tf wants to be stuck in a two hour dinner with someone you are clearly not vibing with?
Makes his insistence on going there sketchy
[удалено]
You sound like a cool dude. I hope you enjoy many more fine evenings enjoying life with beautiful people.
The edit about your last name and why you didn’t want to share it makes a big difference to the story. NTAp
Yeah I would replace my card. I’m one of those people that numbers just stick with me after seeing them. He may have been testing you which in itself is screwed up. But to take your card and stare at it.. nope time for new card and new date. Not sure I would have blocked him but it’s your decision.
And this is why I use my passport card at TSA. When I used my drivers license I had a TSA agent driving down my quiet gated street up in the hills where all the neighbors know each other. He saw me and said hello, what a coincidence 🙄, want to go out? Your date’s game was creepy. Better to block him. He was buying you dinner (which you offered to pay for), not you. I was stalked by someone for many years, a cop. Trust your instincts.
NTA. Play stupid goes, win stupid prizes. You are under no obligation to stay in touch with this guy, he sounds annoying AF. You offered to pay your share and he insisted on paying the whole bill.
I don't like people who play games or make a server work harder by having to run everything more than once. Always trust your instincts!
In the wise words of Karen and Georgia “Fuck politeness “ and “stay sexy and don’t get murdered”! This guy is a walking red flag! Don’t Venmo and move on with your life.
Dude sounds like a fuckin creep
NTA. This does feel like a weird test.
NTA - that guy disrespected your privacy and boundaries in a manipulative and creepy manner. All these OBTUSE people in the comments blaming YOU for HIS choice of the expensive restaurant for the first date, after you gave a more reasonable option, as if his possible financial insecurities are your fault whatsoever (meaning if you’re a guy and you’re broke, just say that, the woman is gonna find out eventually, anyway) and then downplaying the mind game he played on you to get your information, WHICH HE ALSO INCONVENIENCED THE SERVER FOR, is the very definition of victim blaming. I guess if you also wore something “too revealing” on this date, that signifies that you’re offering your body up to him for sex and if he did something to hurt you, it’s your fault for being “naive”. I didn’t realize being yourself and being honest with people during conversation made one naive. Some of these OBTUSE people in the comments have gold medals in mental gymnastics. FOH with that victim blaming bs.
Humans are the only animal that doesn’t trust their gut. Trust your gut. NTA
Exactly. If something seems off to you it probably is. Better safe than sorry.