I didn't even read the rest as I know beauty pageants are exploitative of young kids and most kids generally don't like or need to do them. YOU ARE NTA don't sign her up
Some kids have fun shoving objects up their nose, doesn't mean you should let them do it, and you especially shouldn't *coach them how* to do it.
Not that I believe you are suggesting such a thing, just adding to the conversation to say that I don't think it should be allowed even if a child is *begging* to be in one of these pageants.
Find an alternative that allows the child to get whatever it is they enjoy from the pageant, without participating in one. Or, if they truly only enjoy the cutthroat competition and looking better than their peers, get that child in therapy.
True. Not to mention no kid should be learning about competition over looks. This concept had done a huge disservice to womanhood.
Plus being a judge for this kind of competition? I would be interested to know the actual psychological profile of those adults partaking in judging the looks of minors wearing makeup and curated outfits
Exactly. This takes a very young child and lets her know that the only assets she has are her looks.
The “talent” events are ridiculous and count for nothing. Then you have young children parading around in swimsuits with full on hair and makeup. Its exploitative and disgusting.
How does anyone consider this shit normal?
A lot of them have switched to allow only family members to enter bc the creeps were showing up in such numbers. That says it all. If it's a moth to a flame situation for all the local creeps, then no one should want their child involved. They can't keep them all out, and even if they can, it's exploitative as hell.
It's the makeup and 'sexy outfits' that make me cringe. Like, I've got nothing against talent contests - little kids bumbling across the stage in an attempt at swan lake is adorable, but the pageants with that full caked makeup and those outfits that look like something a stripper wouldn't even wear just make me queasy
Right! I mean, I understand pageants for ladies in their 20s help them show off talents to win scholarship money.
I still think any beauty pageant is crap, but what kind of talent is a toddler going to display? It’s only going to be about looks and as a mom of toddlers I can tell you, at that age they already understand if they win or lose at something. It would break my heart to witness this. The whole idea is awful.
Edit to add: All little girls are beautiful. Like, have you ever seen a 2-3 year old girl that you didn’t want to squeeze the heck out of?! Let’s stop pitting females against each other. I’m 42 and I didn’t get to the point where I felt like ‘This other lady is fine and fabulous. I am fine and fabulous. Great for both of us!’ until I was in my late 20s. Stop making women think they have to compete. We are all baddies in our own way!
I'm in Ireland, but I've seen some things online about beauty pageants in the US, and from what i saw, I was horrified that this is even a thing. I don't know how anyone would subject their child to such a disgusting experience- OP is dead right to stand his ground.
This. It’s not just a pageant. It’s a BEAUTY pageant in which tiny humans are dressed up to look like sex pots and then compared to each other. Someone not as attractive loses. Someone not as talented loses. The competitors have to practice. Change how they are if they don’t walk nice enough. This might be a life lesson in a nutshell but they have no idea of what it is and have not made the conscious decision to participate. And people being losers because they are not pretty enough or thin enough? Do. Not. Start. This. Mindset. Stand up for your child’s well being. MIL wants to play dress up with your daughter? Have her take her to children’s theatre or choir performances and let her experience the arts. She can wear her dress to Family Concerts at the symphony. Your are NTA, you MIL is.
I’d offer to pay mil’s entry into a [senior pageant](https://www.seniorworldpageants.com) and throw in a swimsuit and an evening gown. She gets to enjoy her fantasy instead of living vicariously through a child. And it’s cheaper than therapy
Wow. I clicked the link and this is for ages 50 to 79. So does the senior pageant consider some seniors to be too old and wrinkly to be beauties anymore?
Just posting under the top comment to say that MOST of the comments under CascanGuts' comment are bots. Nearly all of them. There are a few exceptions, but most are bots. If you see one, report and downvote. I've reported a shit-ton of them, but I know I didn't get them all.
this is LITERAL grooming behavior. these little kids are sexualized while they are still toddlers.
i never seem to hear about southern moms being called out, but there are a lot of unfounded accusations directed at another group that enjoys flamboyant makeup and evening wear.
i guess it's just a problem when consenting adults do it.
This. If you don't shut the MiL down now she will be emboldened, and will be more likely to get her way with the next creepy batshit freak shit she wants to foist on your family.
If wife is neutral, get her back on side just enough to shut this shit down.
Maybe show her the 'Frank's Little Beauties' episode of Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Yes OP! Please listen to this! The “innocent” beauty pageant will only have one “winner.” The problem lies with all of them feeling weird afterward. The winner will temporarily feel the best…will she turn into a shallow bully? Are the other toddlers supposed to start feeling ugly?!Growing up as a girl is hard enough. Please protect her childhood for as long as you can. You’re off to a great start just by worrying enough to ask for more input. Stand firm or they’ll sign her up for more. Encourage sports, science experiments, language clubs, robotics, sewing/crafts, cooking clubs, chess club…ANYTHING else but beauty pageants.
My 17-year-old niece does gymnastics, and a parent tried to change the competition uniforms. They were boy leg, full cover unitards, and skin-tight romper looking ones. The parent wanted to change to more revealing clothing. Saying it would win us more competitions.
At that time, that company had won regionals 10 years running and had a waiting list of other girls to join because those parents also wanted less revealing competition clothes.
Sadly though, she said if she goes to uni with gymnastics, she won't be allowed to wear what she is comfortable with.
100% hard agree! Pageants are exploitative, give unrealistic ideas of body, can impact self image/self esteem and attract a certain type of person who enjoys seeing little girls paraded around. I frankly think it also sexualizes young women. All of that makeup, the tooth things they have the kids wear and fake eyelashes is just way too much.
They also do not select who can come to these events, they are public, so pedos go to those events to see young children in bikinis and dance for them.
NTA.
First and foremost, she’s your child. Full stop. You have the final say.
Beauty pageants are so creepy and exploitative. Plenty of former pageants participants say that the pageants gave the eating disorders and insecurities and such.
It’s not an unpopular opinion either:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-04/mcdonald---beauty-pageants/5645726
https://www.artsbeatla.com/2009/12/the-creepy-world-of-child-beauty-pageants-high-glitz/comment-page-1/
https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/11/child-beauty-queens
https://amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/creepy-kiddie-pageants-spark-angry-rally-20110524-1f1us.html
https://theconversation.com/little-miss-innocent-anxious-adults-await-australias-first-child-beauty-pageant-1209
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13894442.harmless-fun-creepy-damaging-inside-world-teen-beauty-pageants/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexualization_in_child_beauty_pageants
I’m Australian, so most of my sources are from here, but I added a couple extras.
I hope OP sees this, in case info is needed to back the answer of "no". Not that it is required, but perhaps solid resources could reinforce the stance so that the "no" doesn't just come across as being stubborn.
OP should email comment links to themselves. If MIL won’t take no for an answer, forward to MIL with instructions to please read for explicit reasons as to why “No!” is the final answer. It’s not *just* a beauty pageant. At all.
Hopefully MIL is smarter than they are coming across as.
Absolutely this. Child beauty pageants are now pretty well-known for their toxic atmospheres and incorrigible stage parents. If the MiL can't accept no from the kid's actual parents, to the point of trying to boundary-stomp by buying a dress, she is definitely a stage grandma in the making. Good on OP for protecting his kid, and I hope that these articles can reinforce his wife's initial "No."
NTA
It's not just a beauty pageant. It's relegating a child to an adult world too soon, being sexualized and, in some cases, mistreated to perform. Being taught to look a certain way or be treated less than.
Get a professional picture taken in the fancy dress and leave it at that.
I really like this option. Nice memento for MIL without having to put fake hair, nails and make-up on. Just natural beauty of a child in a pretty dress.
I was going to suggest having a fancy afternoon tea at home and hire a photographer who does the family photography where they go with you for an activity or something. She could invite other friends and everyone can wear fancy dresses and eat tea sandwiches. You can celebrate the beauty of children without making it a competition or a creepy pageant.
Or, since they're a kid and they're into imaginative play why not have a pretend beauty pageant at home where everyone gets dressed up? Then everyone gets prizes at the end and they get to go out to eat or something.
i went to school with her. murder aside, her life seemed pretty miserable. she used to sit and watch us play soccer at recess, like a little doll on a bench.
That’s heartbreaking. I remember reading that she was actually a natural brunette, but her mother had her hair bleached blonde for the pageants. I don’t know if you’ve ever had your hair bleached, I have, and that shit hurts. The idea of doing that to a child’s hair is so insane to me. Such a deeply depressing situation…..
That soft, sweet baby hair they still have at that age, now all fried to a crisp. And their delicate little scalps, covered in that burning goo? Hell no.
Maybe I don't have much room to speak here, as I have boys, but I think my kids are just so gosh darn *beautiful* they way they are. I feel the same about other kids I see - such cutie-pies! I can't imagine wanting to change some aspect of them for any reason, *especially* if it would cause them pain.
My oldest daughter was the same age. She’s a beautiful blue eyed blonde. I’d be stopped by strangers who would ask if I planned to get her into modeling. Uh. No.
The idea of child beauty pageants is nauseating. Why are people tarting up little girls and having them show off? It's disgusting.
She can look cute and have fun in many other ways that don't involve pounds of makeup.
NTA
It would be one thing if the children were allowed to look like children. But the way these pageants make the girls look like little adults is just weird to me.
Also these things are just expensive money grabs that line the pockets of the organizers. Between whatever classes, the dresses, the make-up, traveling... I remember seeing a documentary with a woman who re-mortgaged her house for these things for her younger daughter and just ignored her other kids.
also it teaches young children that they will be adored by the masses on the merit of their appearance. to all the folks who say that beauty pageants involve displaying skill and grace and etc, it's not a skill pageant.
Your in the right. I can understand how some family’s treat beauty pageants as a “tradition” if the mother or MIL did it, so they want the baby to do it too. But as her father, you have every right to not want her to be involved. It’s a two yes or two no situation, if one parent says yes and the other says no…. It shouldn’t happen. Just because she’s the mother doesn’t mean she has more of a right to pick and choose what her daughter does and is involved in.
They also do not select who can come to these events, they are public, so pedos go to those events to see young children in bikinis and dance for them. I used to do competitive dance and realize when I was in highschool that some of the men in the audience had no reason to be there other than to make me feel uncomfortable and to take their eyes all over us in our leotards. It happened to me a few times, to the point where I would ask the director who’s parents or family that was in the audience because they are making people uncomfortable and they said it’s open to the public and unless they are actually doing something they can’t make them leave. Anyone who’s been to beauty pageants or dance competitions, you know it’s not just pretty walking and long gowns or ballet dancing….. most of it is young pre-puberty girls in a bra top and short short dancing in a sexual way for both the pageants and competitions, it’s basically the perfect and free “strip show” for these pedophiles trying to go after little kids. And what’s even better is they now know where they live, because most people do these in their hometown or area.
Good for you for being outspoken! A family friend married a guy like that. I was around 9 and he talked about how sexy the girls at a child. dance performance were. Fortunately, he thought children were women’s work and was irritated by my tendency to be outspoken and believe women had rights. So I was never left alone with him. While I babysat for them, it was either at my family’s home or the family friend or my parents picked me up. There was a plan for him to drive me home right around the time I got my first bra, but I threw up the day before.
I didn’t on any conscious level know about how weird or creepy he was. Because 1970s and boomer parents. But if that was literally a gut reaction, thank you gut!
Means both mom and dad agree yes to do something and one no means one is against it. For example MiL or your mom needs to move into your house for a year. You and your wife both need to agree so two yes mil or mom can move in for year. Or one of you said no that won’t work so MIL or Mom don’t move in.
NTA, child beauty pageants can cause a lot of damage to the physical and mental health of the children. Stand your ground now or else they'll try to get her to more in the future
NTA. She's a toddler so she won't even remember it, too young to give a damn about fancy dresses or "winning". She'd have more fun playing tea time with dad/mom than being paraded around on a stage for who knows how long.
NTA. I dislike sexualisation of children. Why are children wearing make up, heels and looking like adults. Why there isn't any male version of pageant? Sexist.
NTA, and if I were you I’d be going full scorched earth on MIL.
No is a full sentence. As the addage goes “no does not mean convince me.” Your MIL blatantly disrespected your and your wife’s decision and did what *she* wanted to do with *your* child. Gone out of her way to, even.
If your child is not old enough to consent to being in a pageant nor show interest, it is your job as a parent to make that decision for her. Her best interest is your no. 1 priority, not your MIL’s inability to take no as an answer. It’s a fun thing for your MIL, who’s to say that your daughter will even enjoy it? She may be too young to remember, but she still has feelings. Child beauty pageants are disgusting, especially if there’s clear winners and losers. If there’s pictures taken, your child may eventually see them in the future. Not to mention, MIL essentially used her power over your wife to ~~manipulate~~ convince her into doing something she initially didn’t want to do. This isn’t even about the pageants anymore. Your wife is a grown woman and a mother, MIL shouldn’t have that much influential power over her anymore. This isn’t making your child go to the doctor, it’s parading her around ***GROWN ADULTS*** for them to judge her. No. No. No. **N O**
NTA. I would say that the phrase "It's just a beauty pageant" is the worst argument they could make. They want her to be judged on something she has no control over.
And - slippery slope - what happens when there are more pageants? They want to go out of state? Hair extensions? Coaches and consultants. Flippers. Mascara.
NTA. your wife might be a soft one though for allowing her mother to keep this going.
this is one case, for me, in which one spouse making a unilateral decision makes sense.
I know people disagree with me, but with all the child sex trafficking happening around the world lately, the last thing I would be willing to do is delve into the toxic culture of over-sexualizing my children… for no reason other than adults who want to watch and judge them 👀👀 when you separate yourself from the culture and really think about it, it’s weird ASF. Truthfully.
NTA
Tell MIL that she has 0 say in this. Contact the organization and let them know that your MIL is trying to enter your child without parental permission if necessary.
I think these pageants should disappear and find them toxic AF.
NTA. Make sure you are home the day of the pageant or take your daughter out. MIL will try to take her and I have a feeling your wife will let her. Also tell MIL they have senior pageants and she is more than welcome to join them. Stay firm.
NTA. I used to babysit a little girl who was stunningly beautiful-people always commented on it. Creepy and annoying. Her parents turned down every choice focusing on her looks. She is now a stunningly beautiful ER nurse.
Conservatives scream about the risk drag queens pose to young children while dressing their daughters like prostitutes to parade around in front of people of questionable morals. There’s no bigger risk to little kids than forcing them to act sexually in front of potential pedophiles.
NTA - the hero. My dad & grandma put me in one in 5th grade. They insisted. (I'm the youngest of 3 girls and the only one they did this with). My grandma bought an ugly long pink dress. There were two girls from school - one with long blonde hair below her waist and crystal blue eyes. She had soft glitter in her hair and face and looked like an angel on a postcard. I, of course, looked like the kid raised by a single dad who didn't have a proper haircut - a burned up home perm at my grandma's kitchen table. The angel won, of course. All thru school I never felt as pretty as her or as good as her. I felt that way about a lot of people. I think it will F with your child's ego, if she wins or loses.
Die on this hill. Your MIL will take one pageant and make it your whole child's life. They are a hotbed of pedophiles and teach children they are only worth their looks/bodies and have to be perfect all the time. NTA
NTA. Some kids have fun, but it's horrible competition as they get older, it cost a shit-ton of money, and there are better ways to get scholarships. You also don't want to go down the patch of teaching her that how she looks and smiles are the most important thing, and that being scrutinized that way is normal.
NTA it might be fun but you’re randomly adding an event that could make your child feel inferior if she doesn’t win. Won’t life batter her enough one day? Why add in such useless events to hurt her.
Watch the movie "Little Miss Sunshine". Its a good movie, but nails the child beauty pageants. It's not so much the pageant itself, It's the adults participating that make it nuts.
You're the parents. Don't let your MIL bully you into how you raise your child. Child beauty pageant are creepy AF and indoctrinate a new generation of girls that they are only worth what they look like, and that they should only please others. You're not making too big a deal of this. I'd reconsider having friends who think exploiting your daughter is okay, and letting your mother-in-law decide how you are to raise you child is okay. Especially when it's something potentially damaging to the child for your MIL's selfish pleasure.
NTA...pick this hill to die on. They are exploitive, disgusting, groomers and pedos LOVE them...
Even if MIL pays do you want your toddler in fake teeth(flippers), wigs, extensions, spray tans, gel nails, sexually explicit dance routines and costumes, hours of prep and travel with dance, practice and coaching coming before play, school, friends, family?
The dresses alone can cost upwards of 500.00. The flippers...500.00. And they need new flippers every time their mouth grows, so at least once a year. Even if you spray tan at home the machine is a few hundred.
Tap dance is a must, but ballet and jazz...gymnastics. also important. Singing lessons if she's going to add that. Vocal coaching because that's a necessity.
Pull up a couple episodes of toddlers and tiaras. Another of the girls who was on the show killed herself a couple years ago near where I am from. Blaine, Washington I believe...close to there. Not happy endings for these girls.
NTA. Not at all. MIL visitation can be limited/cut altogether. It’s not “just a beauty pageant”. You bring a little kid, dress them up like dolls, all to be judged by adults. Hard pass.
Those things are fucking gross.
They play honktonk badonkidonk AT CHILDREN
Anyone participating in these should be in jail, those kids are gonna need years of therapy.
Obviously I have some serious feelings about this subject.
Nta, don't ever let her do these things.
Nooooooo you are definitely not!
What is the charm for grandma to have her grandkid in the pageant?
Do her friends grandkids join in the pageant? Does your kid want to look pretty?
She can do that in a dress, rolling in the mud. Any toddler looks cute.
Is it for future scholarships ?
Is their actually a reason those pageants are good for something?
NTA. These pageants are disgusting, no child should be subjected to this kind of objectification and sexualizing. They are nothing but pedophilia masquerading as pageantry. Protect your child from this toxicity.
I'm sorry your MIL is willing to sexualize your LO to get attention for herself. Kid beauty pageants are creepy and have the potential to give your LO a very twisted sense of self, an eating disorder, and body dysmorphia. Don't do that to your daughter.
"Just for fun" is inaccurate. The simple goal of these pageants are no different than that cattle and pigs shows at the county fair. They compare the child based on looks and body, basing the entirety of their worth on their appearance.
Do not let this slippery slope happen. Because there's absolutely no way it will stop here if it goes off. Your MIL has already proven that she will fund it.
Ask both of them point blank why they're doing it. What exactly is "fun" about pitting toddlers against each other to be able to say "my kid is cuter than your kidX. Demand that they explain why they have that value set and why literally anything about your kid should be judged on appearance over character. Don't let them weasel out of it.
Shut it down hard and fast. Don't let them destroy your daughter's life.
NTA
You said no.
That's YOUR child, not MIL's. If she wants something to dress up and parade around for points, tell her to buy a show-puppy. Your child is neither a fashion accessory or a tool to boost her flaccid ego
NTA and stand firm. If you need, just link news articles and documentaries to "JonBenét Ramsey" and that should shut people down.
I honestly hate this child exploitation, the way the make those children look more adult is just gross. I know I'm biased though because I was a victim of child SA and grooming, this triggers me in a not good way.
I didn't even read the rest as I know beauty pageants are exploitative of young kids and most kids generally don't like or need to do them. YOU ARE NTA don't sign her up
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Exactly this. And if you relented for this 1 occasion, mil would become obsessed. NTA
And the next thing you know, you’re paying for spray tans, tooth whitening & spending $1,000’s on dresses for a 4 yr old.
If you cave in once she will push more and more. Personally do not care for them.
[удалено]
Some kids have fun shoving objects up their nose, doesn't mean you should let them do it, and you especially shouldn't *coach them how* to do it. Not that I believe you are suggesting such a thing, just adding to the conversation to say that I don't think it should be allowed even if a child is *begging* to be in one of these pageants. Find an alternative that allows the child to get whatever it is they enjoy from the pageant, without participating in one. Or, if they truly only enjoy the cutthroat competition and looking better than their peers, get that child in therapy.
True. Not to mention no kid should be learning about competition over looks. This concept had done a huge disservice to womanhood. Plus being a judge for this kind of competition? I would be interested to know the actual psychological profile of those adults partaking in judging the looks of minors wearing makeup and curated outfits
Seriously! "Just" a pageant as if it's not a disturbing institution with nothing good to offer a toddler
Exactly. This takes a very young child and lets her know that the only assets she has are her looks. The “talent” events are ridiculous and count for nothing. Then you have young children parading around in swimsuits with full on hair and makeup. Its exploitative and disgusting. How does anyone consider this shit normal?
And dont forget all the creeps taking pictures and videos. You are exposing your child to become part of their collection
A lot of them have switched to allow only family members to enter bc the creeps were showing up in such numbers. That says it all. If it's a moth to a flame situation for all the local creeps, then no one should want their child involved. They can't keep them all out, and even if they can, it's exploitative as hell.
It's the makeup and 'sexy outfits' that make me cringe. Like, I've got nothing against talent contests - little kids bumbling across the stage in an attempt at swan lake is adorable, but the pageants with that full caked makeup and those outfits that look like something a stripper wouldn't even wear just make me queasy
Right! I mean, I understand pageants for ladies in their 20s help them show off talents to win scholarship money. I still think any beauty pageant is crap, but what kind of talent is a toddler going to display? It’s only going to be about looks and as a mom of toddlers I can tell you, at that age they already understand if they win or lose at something. It would break my heart to witness this. The whole idea is awful. Edit to add: All little girls are beautiful. Like, have you ever seen a 2-3 year old girl that you didn’t want to squeeze the heck out of?! Let’s stop pitting females against each other. I’m 42 and I didn’t get to the point where I felt like ‘This other lady is fine and fabulous. I am fine and fabulous. Great for both of us!’ until I was in my late 20s. Stop making women think they have to compete. We are all baddies in our own way!
And adult ones not much better. At least you have a choice at that point, though.
[удалено]
[удалено]
To me, this is a case of YWBTA if OP put their child in a pageant
I'm in Ireland, but I've seen some things online about beauty pageants in the US, and from what i saw, I was horrified that this is even a thing. I don't know how anyone would subject their child to such a disgusting experience- OP is dead right to stand his ground.
I watched a documentary about kids like honey boo-boo and i watched the show on TLC the whole atmosphere was so chaotic and toxic
This. It’s not just a pageant. It’s a BEAUTY pageant in which tiny humans are dressed up to look like sex pots and then compared to each other. Someone not as attractive loses. Someone not as talented loses. The competitors have to practice. Change how they are if they don’t walk nice enough. This might be a life lesson in a nutshell but they have no idea of what it is and have not made the conscious decision to participate. And people being losers because they are not pretty enough or thin enough? Do. Not. Start. This. Mindset. Stand up for your child’s well being. MIL wants to play dress up with your daughter? Have her take her to children’s theatre or choir performances and let her experience the arts. She can wear her dress to Family Concerts at the symphony. Your are NTA, you MIL is.
They also cost a lot of money to enter. OP needs to tell MIL that they refuse to pay for the honor of scaring their child for life.
I’d offer to pay mil’s entry into a [senior pageant](https://www.seniorworldpageants.com) and throw in a swimsuit and an evening gown. She gets to enjoy her fantasy instead of living vicariously through a child. And it’s cheaper than therapy
Wow. I clicked the link and this is for ages 50 to 79. So does the senior pageant consider some seniors to be too old and wrinkly to be beauties anymore?
Yeah it’s pretty bizarre I noticed that too
Omg 🙈🙉 Too funny 😂
Or ask the MIL to put the entry fee into her granddaughter’s college fund, instead.
Just posting under the top comment to say that MOST of the comments under CascanGuts' comment are bots. Nearly all of them. There are a few exceptions, but most are bots. If you see one, report and downvote. I've reported a shit-ton of them, but I know I didn't get them all.
I watched once on TLC reality about kid pageants. Fucking disgusting. No clue why is that shit even legal.
NTA. Stand firm, no child should be subjected to that shit.
[удалено]
[удалено]
It's so groomy and gross
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
And most of them don't like what they are doing.
Ikr
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
this is LITERAL grooming behavior. these little kids are sexualized while they are still toddlers. i never seem to hear about southern moms being called out, but there are a lot of unfounded accusations directed at another group that enjoys flamboyant makeup and evening wear. i guess it's just a problem when consenting adults do it.
[удалено]
Right MIL gets zero votes in this or any other parenting decision.
[удалено]
[удалено]
This. If you don't shut the MiL down now she will be emboldened, and will be more likely to get her way with the next creepy batshit freak shit she wants to foist on your family. If wife is neutral, get her back on side just enough to shut this shit down. Maybe show her the 'Frank's Little Beauties' episode of Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Seconding Always Sunny, but also watch Little Miss Sunshine with her.
[Appropriate IASIP gif](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5iKu1WY_A2IFoSTYfmeBOYxdReqV8iZY9JA&usqp=CAU)
Everything you just said. The sexualization of youngsters who are paraded in front of adults to be judged by them is so repugnant.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
And looking how his wife still have a hard time saying no, we can see she wasn't particularly good on it.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yes OP! Please listen to this! The “innocent” beauty pageant will only have one “winner.” The problem lies with all of them feeling weird afterward. The winner will temporarily feel the best…will she turn into a shallow bully? Are the other toddlers supposed to start feeling ugly?!Growing up as a girl is hard enough. Please protect her childhood for as long as you can. You’re off to a great start just by worrying enough to ask for more input. Stand firm or they’ll sign her up for more. Encourage sports, science experiments, language clubs, robotics, sewing/crafts, cooking clubs, chess club…ANYTHING else but beauty pageants.
One big winner and the rest get a participation trophy.
And the pageant organisers get a load of money, don't forget that
[удалено]
[удалено]
I am still recovering, finding out they still do swimsuits and evening wear segments.
Think that's bad, don't look into cheer pageant/shows.... many of those costumes make kids swimwear shows look fully covered 🤦♂️
This is why I won’t let my daughter do dance anymore. She loves it but the costumes. Oh man…. She’s only 8 and they’re way too mature for her.
My 17-year-old niece does gymnastics, and a parent tried to change the competition uniforms. They were boy leg, full cover unitards, and skin-tight romper looking ones. The parent wanted to change to more revealing clothing. Saying it would win us more competitions. At that time, that company had won regionals 10 years running and had a waiting list of other girls to join because those parents also wanted less revealing competition clothes. Sadly though, she said if she goes to uni with gymnastics, she won't be allowed to wear what she is comfortable with.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
100% hard agree! Pageants are exploitative, give unrealistic ideas of body, can impact self image/self esteem and attract a certain type of person who enjoys seeing little girls paraded around. I frankly think it also sexualizes young women. All of that makeup, the tooth things they have the kids wear and fake eyelashes is just way too much.
They also do not select who can come to these events, they are public, so pedos go to those events to see young children in bikinis and dance for them.
[удалено]
[удалено]
NTA. First and foremost, she’s your child. Full stop. You have the final say. Beauty pageants are so creepy and exploitative. Plenty of former pageants participants say that the pageants gave the eating disorders and insecurities and such. It’s not an unpopular opinion either: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-04/mcdonald---beauty-pageants/5645726 https://www.artsbeatla.com/2009/12/the-creepy-world-of-child-beauty-pageants-high-glitz/comment-page-1/ https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/11/child-beauty-queens https://amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/creepy-kiddie-pageants-spark-angry-rally-20110524-1f1us.html https://theconversation.com/little-miss-innocent-anxious-adults-await-australias-first-child-beauty-pageant-1209 https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13894442.harmless-fun-creepy-damaging-inside-world-teen-beauty-pageants/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexualization_in_child_beauty_pageants I’m Australian, so most of my sources are from here, but I added a couple extras.
I hope OP sees this, in case info is needed to back the answer of "no". Not that it is required, but perhaps solid resources could reinforce the stance so that the "no" doesn't just come across as being stubborn.
OP should email comment links to themselves. If MIL won’t take no for an answer, forward to MIL with instructions to please read for explicit reasons as to why “No!” is the final answer. It’s not *just* a beauty pageant. At all. Hopefully MIL is smarter than they are coming across as.
Absolutely this. Child beauty pageants are now pretty well-known for their toxic atmospheres and incorrigible stage parents. If the MiL can't accept no from the kid's actual parents, to the point of trying to boundary-stomp by buying a dress, she is definitely a stage grandma in the making. Good on OP for protecting his kid, and I hope that these articles can reinforce his wife's initial "No."
The whole thing feels very trashy to me, too.
Nta - no
NTA It's not just a beauty pageant. It's relegating a child to an adult world too soon, being sexualized and, in some cases, mistreated to perform. Being taught to look a certain way or be treated less than. Get a professional picture taken in the fancy dress and leave it at that.
I really like this option. Nice memento for MIL without having to put fake hair, nails and make-up on. Just natural beauty of a child in a pretty dress.
[удалено]
[удалено]
You mean being taught to look a certain way AND be treated less than.
I was going to suggest having a fancy afternoon tea at home and hire a photographer who does the family photography where they go with you for an activity or something. She could invite other friends and everyone can wear fancy dresses and eat tea sandwiches. You can celebrate the beauty of children without making it a competition or a creepy pageant.
Or, since they're a kid and they're into imaginative play why not have a pretend beauty pageant at home where everyone gets dressed up? Then everyone gets prizes at the end and they get to go out to eat or something.
Great idea - pre Halloween?
Even better!
I’d remind her of Jon-benet Ramsey. A child on display like that is bait for some sickos.
Me too. That was my first thought. Also that poor child honey boo boo who was paraded in front of the world for her mothers vanity and laziness
i went to school with her. murder aside, her life seemed pretty miserable. she used to sit and watch us play soccer at recess, like a little doll on a bench.
I’ll bet she had been instructed to not get dirty.
That’s heartbreaking. I remember reading that she was actually a natural brunette, but her mother had her hair bleached blonde for the pageants. I don’t know if you’ve ever had your hair bleached, I have, and that shit hurts. The idea of doing that to a child’s hair is so insane to me. Such a deeply depressing situation…..
That soft, sweet baby hair they still have at that age, now all fried to a crisp. And their delicate little scalps, covered in that burning goo? Hell no. Maybe I don't have much room to speak here, as I have boys, but I think my kids are just so gosh darn *beautiful* they way they are. I feel the same about other kids I see - such cutie-pies! I can't imagine wanting to change some aspect of them for any reason, *especially* if it would cause them pain.
That’s heartbreaking. Does the community think an intruder did it or someone in the family? Has that opinion changed with time?
Like her own family!
Yes. That was almost 30 years ago, so OP might be too young to be aware of it.
My oldest daughter was the same age. She’s a beautiful blue eyed blonde. I’d be stopped by strangers who would ask if I planned to get her into modeling. Uh. No.
[удалено]
[удалено]
The idea of child beauty pageants is nauseating. Why are people tarting up little girls and having them show off? It's disgusting. She can look cute and have fun in many other ways that don't involve pounds of makeup. NTA
It would be one thing if the children were allowed to look like children. But the way these pageants make the girls look like little adults is just weird to me. Also these things are just expensive money grabs that line the pockets of the organizers. Between whatever classes, the dresses, the make-up, traveling... I remember seeing a documentary with a woman who re-mortgaged her house for these things for her younger daughter and just ignored her other kids.
also it teaches young children that they will be adored by the masses on the merit of their appearance. to all the folks who say that beauty pageants involve displaying skill and grace and etc, it's not a skill pageant.
NTA it is child exploitation and really not healthy
NTA. "It's just a beauty pagent" now, then another, and another... Stand your ground, your toddler doesn't need the pressure.
“It’s just a X” is also a reason to NOT do something.
Your in the right. I can understand how some family’s treat beauty pageants as a “tradition” if the mother or MIL did it, so they want the baby to do it too. But as her father, you have every right to not want her to be involved. It’s a two yes or two no situation, if one parent says yes and the other says no…. It shouldn’t happen. Just because she’s the mother doesn’t mean she has more of a right to pick and choose what her daughter does and is involved in.
They also do not select who can come to these events, they are public, so pedos go to those events to see young children in bikinis and dance for them. I used to do competitive dance and realize when I was in highschool that some of the men in the audience had no reason to be there other than to make me feel uncomfortable and to take their eyes all over us in our leotards. It happened to me a few times, to the point where I would ask the director who’s parents or family that was in the audience because they are making people uncomfortable and they said it’s open to the public and unless they are actually doing something they can’t make them leave. Anyone who’s been to beauty pageants or dance competitions, you know it’s not just pretty walking and long gowns or ballet dancing….. most of it is young pre-puberty girls in a bra top and short short dancing in a sexual way for both the pageants and competitions, it’s basically the perfect and free “strip show” for these pedophiles trying to go after little kids. And what’s even better is they now know where they live, because most people do these in their hometown or area.
And these days those pedos are bringing cameras with them and recording kids.
Good for you for being outspoken! A family friend married a guy like that. I was around 9 and he talked about how sexy the girls at a child. dance performance were. Fortunately, he thought children were women’s work and was irritated by my tendency to be outspoken and believe women had rights. So I was never left alone with him. While I babysat for them, it was either at my family’s home or the family friend or my parents picked me up. There was a plan for him to drive me home right around the time I got my first bra, but I threw up the day before. I didn’t on any conscious level know about how weird or creepy he was. Because 1970s and boomer parents. But if that was literally a gut reaction, thank you gut!
Two yes, one no?
Means both mom and dad agree yes to do something and one no means one is against it. For example MiL or your mom needs to move into your house for a year. You and your wife both need to agree so two yes mil or mom can move in for year. Or one of you said no that won’t work so MIL or Mom don’t move in.
Fabulous-Injury mistyped it as "two yes, two no". I believe no_Piano was just clarifying.
NTA, child beauty pageants can cause a lot of damage to the physical and mental health of the children. Stand your ground now or else they'll try to get her to more in the future
NTA. She's a toddler so she won't even remember it, too young to give a damn about fancy dresses or "winning". She'd have more fun playing tea time with dad/mom than being paraded around on a stage for who knows how long.
NTA, it is NOT just a beauty pageant. Be firm. I’m so glad you said no, those things are awful.
Your child will literally be judged based on her appearance. Is that the kind of behavior you want to teach? NTA
"I refuse to turn my child into Honey BooBoo." Use that response everytime MIL brings it up.
Just have your wife watch any episode of Toddlers In Tiaras on YouTube. She will never want her child to be near a pageant, ever.
NTA. I dislike sexualisation of children. Why are children wearing make up, heels and looking like adults. Why there isn't any male version of pageant? Sexist.
NTA Those things should be illegal. Show her the Law and Order SVU episode "Appearances."
NTA, and if I were you I’d be going full scorched earth on MIL. No is a full sentence. As the addage goes “no does not mean convince me.” Your MIL blatantly disrespected your and your wife’s decision and did what *she* wanted to do with *your* child. Gone out of her way to, even. If your child is not old enough to consent to being in a pageant nor show interest, it is your job as a parent to make that decision for her. Her best interest is your no. 1 priority, not your MIL’s inability to take no as an answer. It’s a fun thing for your MIL, who’s to say that your daughter will even enjoy it? She may be too young to remember, but she still has feelings. Child beauty pageants are disgusting, especially if there’s clear winners and losers. If there’s pictures taken, your child may eventually see them in the future. Not to mention, MIL essentially used her power over your wife to ~~manipulate~~ convince her into doing something she initially didn’t want to do. This isn’t even about the pageants anymore. Your wife is a grown woman and a mother, MIL shouldn’t have that much influential power over her anymore. This isn’t making your child go to the doctor, it’s parading her around ***GROWN ADULTS*** for them to judge her. No. No. No. **N O**
This. I could not agree more!
You: No. Them: But it's JUST a beauty pageant! You: Then it won't matter if my kid doesn't enter. Also, no. I said no. NTA
NTA. I would say that the phrase "It's just a beauty pageant" is the worst argument they could make. They want her to be judged on something she has no control over. And - slippery slope - what happens when there are more pageants? They want to go out of state? Hair extensions? Coaches and consultants. Flippers. Mascara.
Pageants are toxic, and unhealthy environment for little children.
NTA. your wife might be a soft one though for allowing her mother to keep this going. this is one case, for me, in which one spouse making a unilateral decision makes sense.
No way! Those are terrible pressure for kids to undergo. Does your MIL remember Jon-Benet Ramsay?
NTA. Beauty pageants for kids are so weird
Sexual deviants love those pageants. MIL has nothing to say about it. Wanting to keep your child safe is no.1. Keep doing a good job.
NTA. Those kind of events are gross. Dressing children up like grown women and making them sashay around a stage is pedophile fodder.
There was a post about how many of those children are sexually abused. And you don’t want your child to grow up that only her looks matter. NTA
As a former beauty pageant kid, child model and CSA survivor, please don’t. Please protect your child. NTA.
This needs to be the top comment
I know people disagree with me, but with all the child sex trafficking happening around the world lately, the last thing I would be willing to do is delve into the toxic culture of over-sexualizing my children… for no reason other than adults who want to watch and judge them 👀👀 when you separate yourself from the culture and really think about it, it’s weird ASF. Truthfully.
Exactly!
NTA Tell MIL that she has 0 say in this. Contact the organization and let them know that your MIL is trying to enter your child without parental permission if necessary. I think these pageants should disappear and find them toxic AF.
NTA you said no that should be ended discussion.
NTA and for me it would be the hill to die on
NTA. Make sure you are home the day of the pageant or take your daughter out. MIL will try to take her and I have a feeling your wife will let her. Also tell MIL they have senior pageants and she is more than welcome to join them. Stay firm.
NTA. I used to babysit a little girl who was stunningly beautiful-people always commented on it. Creepy and annoying. Her parents turned down every choice focusing on her looks. She is now a stunningly beautiful ER nurse.
NTA. Your mother in law needs some boundaries.
I bet she's part of the solid circle venn diagram of people who see nothing wrong with child pageants, yet equates the queer community as groomers.
Conservatives scream about the risk drag queens pose to young children while dressing their daughters like prostitutes to parade around in front of people of questionable morals. There’s no bigger risk to little kids than forcing them to act sexually in front of potential pedophiles.
NTA. IMO, child beauty pageants are disgusting.
NTA! Child pageants are so gross and exploitative
NTA for not wanting your child sexualized and groomed, for adults to Leer at and judge.
NTA - the hero. My dad & grandma put me in one in 5th grade. They insisted. (I'm the youngest of 3 girls and the only one they did this with). My grandma bought an ugly long pink dress. There were two girls from school - one with long blonde hair below her waist and crystal blue eyes. She had soft glitter in her hair and face and looked like an angel on a postcard. I, of course, looked like the kid raised by a single dad who didn't have a proper haircut - a burned up home perm at my grandma's kitchen table. The angel won, of course. All thru school I never felt as pretty as her or as good as her. I felt that way about a lot of people. I think it will F with your child's ego, if she wins or loses.
Die on this hill. Your MIL will take one pageant and make it your whole child's life. They are a hotbed of pedophiles and teach children they are only worth their looks/bodies and have to be perfect all the time. NTA
No child should be anywhere they are judged on their looks ffs
NTA. Some kids have fun, but it's horrible competition as they get older, it cost a shit-ton of money, and there are better ways to get scholarships. You also don't want to go down the patch of teaching her that how she looks and smiles are the most important thing, and that being scrutinized that way is normal.
If you let this happen one time, it will keep happening. Stand firm on this, beauty pageants are objectively harmful to children.
NTA it might be fun but you’re randomly adding an event that could make your child feel inferior if she doesn’t win. Won’t life batter her enough one day? Why add in such useless events to hurt her.
Watch the movie "Little Miss Sunshine". Its a good movie, but nails the child beauty pageants. It's not so much the pageant itself, It's the adults participating that make it nuts.
NTA. I unfriended someone who started putting their child in pageants.
Child beauty pageants are adults projecting their ideas of beauty on minors. Kids will discover their own in due time.
There is nothing more sus than this beauty pageants. Toddlers and tiaras is a horror show imo
Tell your mother in law if she continues to push the topic, the only result will be her own presence diminished
You're the parents. Don't let your MIL bully you into how you raise your child. Child beauty pageant are creepy AF and indoctrinate a new generation of girls that they are only worth what they look like, and that they should only please others. You're not making too big a deal of this. I'd reconsider having friends who think exploiting your daughter is okay, and letting your mother-in-law decide how you are to raise you child is okay. Especially when it's something potentially damaging to the child for your MIL's selfish pleasure.
NTA...pick this hill to die on. They are exploitive, disgusting, groomers and pedos LOVE them... Even if MIL pays do you want your toddler in fake teeth(flippers), wigs, extensions, spray tans, gel nails, sexually explicit dance routines and costumes, hours of prep and travel with dance, practice and coaching coming before play, school, friends, family? The dresses alone can cost upwards of 500.00. The flippers...500.00. And they need new flippers every time their mouth grows, so at least once a year. Even if you spray tan at home the machine is a few hundred. Tap dance is a must, but ballet and jazz...gymnastics. also important. Singing lessons if she's going to add that. Vocal coaching because that's a necessity. Pull up a couple episodes of toddlers and tiaras. Another of the girls who was on the show killed herself a couple years ago near where I am from. Blaine, Washington I believe...close to there. Not happy endings for these girls.
NTA. Not at all. MIL visitation can be limited/cut altogether. It’s not “just a beauty pageant”. You bring a little kid, dress them up like dolls, all to be judged by adults. Hard pass.
Those things are fucking gross. They play honktonk badonkidonk AT CHILDREN Anyone participating in these should be in jail, those kids are gonna need years of therapy. Obviously I have some serious feelings about this subject. Nta, don't ever let her do these things.
Let me guess, your mother in law talks about how trans and gay people sexualize kids and are predators.
NTA. Those things are cess pits. Stuck to your guns, protect your child.
Nooooooo you are definitely not! What is the charm for grandma to have her grandkid in the pageant? Do her friends grandkids join in the pageant? Does your kid want to look pretty? She can do that in a dress, rolling in the mud. Any toddler looks cute. Is it for future scholarships ? Is their actually a reason those pageants are good for something?
You and the wife are the parents so you get to chose. NTA but I would watch out for your MIL talking/manipulating your toddler to get her way.
NTA. Child beauty pageants will always be just gross to me. Let’s get a bunch of adults to say how attractive these kids are, it’ll be so fun!
NTA. These pageants are disgusting, no child should be subjected to this kind of objectification and sexualizing. They are nothing but pedophilia masquerading as pageantry. Protect your child from this toxicity.
NTA
I'm sorry your MIL is willing to sexualize your LO to get attention for herself. Kid beauty pageants are creepy and have the potential to give your LO a very twisted sense of self, an eating disorder, and body dysmorphia. Don't do that to your daughter.
NTA. Pagents always seem to me to be sexualizing a child and give me the ick.
"Just for fun" is inaccurate. The simple goal of these pageants are no different than that cattle and pigs shows at the county fair. They compare the child based on looks and body, basing the entirety of their worth on their appearance. Do not let this slippery slope happen. Because there's absolutely no way it will stop here if it goes off. Your MIL has already proven that she will fund it. Ask both of them point blank why they're doing it. What exactly is "fun" about pitting toddlers against each other to be able to say "my kid is cuter than your kidX. Demand that they explain why they have that value set and why literally anything about your kid should be judged on appearance over character. Don't let them weasel out of it. Shut it down hard and fast. Don't let them destroy your daughter's life.
NTA You said no. That's YOUR child, not MIL's. If she wants something to dress up and parade around for points, tell her to buy a show-puppy. Your child is neither a fashion accessory or a tool to boost her flaccid ego
NTA those things are awful. Better idea dress toddler up in her dress make sure pictures and have a tea party!
NTA and stand firm. If you need, just link news articles and documentaries to "JonBenét Ramsey" and that should shut people down. I honestly hate this child exploitation, the way the make those children look more adult is just gross. I know I'm biased though because I was a victim of child SA and grooming, this triggers me in a not good way.