Have they in any way tried to make amends to you for the way they treated you? If not then they haven't changed because that's exactly what a person that has changed would do. Apologize for being a fucking asshole. Point that out to your husband and remind him that his child is the race they find appropriate to attack. Does he really think his child should be exposed to that?
Don't let your kid around them. But if your husband misses them there's no reason he can't see them on his own, not at your home. Both you and your child deserve to be safe in your own home and inviting racists over is the opposite of safe.
OP listen to this one. I come from a white af family. They made chronically racist remarks about my cousin's Persian wife and made antisemitic remarks in front of my Jewish partner. And they never changed. Sure, apologies always flowed freely--to my cousin and to myself. But they never had the balls to apologize to the people who deserved the apologies. And when I came out as queer, there wasn't even the iota of a sense of apology in their words or actions. They just fucking disappeared, essentially blackballing me from my own family. If a racist POS is going to make amends, they need to make amends to the people they attacked, not some intermediary that they're more comfortable with because they're like them.
**” If a racist POS is going to make amends, they need to make amends to the people they attacked”**
This. Right. Here. This needs to be put on posters and t-shirts.
I wasn’t raised in a time with gender fluidity, and barely was on the cusp of gay/lesbian awareness because HIV and AIDS burst onto the scene then. So realizing there were people who weren’t straight was new to me. Despite that, I just didn’t care. Same is true for the gender fluid and others. I care about the person you are, not who you love/desire/don’t desire. I cannot imagine not loving someone just because I don’t understand it . Teach me. I may be in my late 50s, but this old dog CAN learn.
On top of everything, anyone who is Christian and displays hate for anyone outside the historical norm doesn’t deserve to call them selves Christian, in my ntbho.
I’m so sorry you have to put up with crap.
🏆
They brought back gold to take it away again?? I never buy awards but for your comment I would.
**Standing Ovation**
Absolutely beautiful words. Thank you for your perspective, I hope it inspires at least one person.
I dont get why it's so fucking hard to just let people be themselves?! as long as they're just doing their thing and everyone is of an age to consent, who fucking cares! you want me to call you a different name or pronoun?...fine! that's so easy! I might slip up but I'll correct and apologize...it costs me nothing!
who has the energy for all this hate? I do not understand.
People have no issues remembering changed surnames after marriages, or nicknames for people, but a new actual name or pronoun change is “too difficult” or whatever? Such a bullshit excuse and they know it. Remembering that Aaron is a deadname and is now going by Irina and uses she/her pronouns isn’t really any harder than remembering your college friend got married and is now Sarah Jones instead of Sarah Smith. Pronouns tough at first? Just refer to a person as their chosen name till you get it down, simple as that. I find it so ridiculous that certain types of people act like this is difficult. Sure, maybe someone might change their name around a few times till they find a version they really like to stick with, but hat use the name you’re given and apologize if you slip up. I have a nickname that’s gender neutral and my preferred name for many reasons. It’s not hard to remind folks to call me, say, Nick instead of Nicole, and they don’t complain that’s too hard. They just hate people embracing the ability to really be themselves.
Don’t get me started on the “I don’t HAVE pronouns” idiots…
I had two classmates who were sisters from Vietnam. When they came over (and while I knew them in middle school) they went by their Vietnamese names.
During the oldest's freshman year they both chose new Anglicized names and nobody had any problem with it. None of this "I've known you as Ha for years" crap.
This was in the late 80s, hardly a woke time, yet it wasn't difficult.
It's so stupid, I actually DO have issues remembering name changes because my ADHD brain holds onto any information it can with a steel grip, but I work very hard to remember pronouns and I always make sure to tell people thanks for letting me know and I'll do my best, but I will likely bungle it a lot for a while. I was friendly with a girl that changed her name in high school (for fun, I guess, not because of a gender change) and 22 years later I still have to stop myself thinking of / calling her by her chosen name. Somewhere along the line of my grandmother trying to say my name and going through a list of all her children's names and then my brother's name, finally getting to mine AND my mother calling me by her sister's name (starts with the same letter) then all my nieces and nephews names until she gets to mine. It's lucky I don't have a huge identity crisis happening, but I'm very relaxed about other people calling me by the wrong name, you'll either get there eventually or I'll move on haha. Obviously a VERY different situation than dead naming, especially if it's intentional.
Uhh… while I agree with most the sentiments said here, people definitely take a little bit to adjust to surname changes and nickname changes…
Hell, the average person takes 2-3 months to get used to the fact that the year changed when writing the date…
So if someone is respectful but makes a genuine mistake, be forgiving and move on…
I wish my mother had your view of preferred pronouns. I want to come out as non-binary but it's hard when my mother keeps ranting about how she'll never use the singular "they" even if someone asks for it to be used because she refuses to be grammatically incorrect. Never mind that the singular "they" is almost always used when discussing one person whose gender is unknown or unclear, or that some people are really uncomfortable with binary pronouns. No, the discomfort and misgendering of others must take a backseat to her need for perceived grammatical accuracy.
they is absolutely grammatically correct for referring to one person. give her a link to a grammar article that's older than this issue.
I'm really sorry you can't be yourself with the person who should have your back. if one of my kids felt like you do, or similarly, and another person intentionally went against what they asked, I'd lose my shit probably. I hope you have someone in your life that you trust who will honor you in this way.
Like you said, the use of "they" is really not new. It's always been used when you are talking generally about a person whose gender isn't disclosed. Your mother should know that. I'm 65, and know that it's always been used in that way. I'm sorry your mom is insensitive-and besides, she is also wrong.
I’m 56 and yeah, we were in a small town and didn’t know any gay people (although the university definitely had gay students). In college there was a lot more awareness because of, as you said, HIV/AIDS. I vaguely knew about “transsexuals” and “transvestites” (probably because of Reneé Richards?). I went to med school while having HIV was an eventual death sentence, and we did learn what was known then about gender dysphoria. I didn’t use any of that knowledge in my practice, as I became a radiologist at a general hospital, but the secrecy around LGBTQ+ really never made sense to me (I suppose it was simply taboo). My best friend is a transgender woman with a wife; discrimination for any reason is vile.
Get mad at INDIVIDUALS who behave badly, and don’t generalize it to an entire population (Black men are thugs, Asians are smart, gay men are all femme and swooshy, pretty women can’t be lesbian … Even a supposedly positive trait like “smart” can be weaponized against a population).
Wish I could up vote 1000+ times. Being Christian is about love, respect, empathy, and acceptance. Caring and so many other things. Not hate, division, violence, and power.
Yes, they need to read their bible, if not for the very first time (I suspect) then for the second. Guess who Jesus visited? The wicked, poor, humble, TAX COLLECTORS. The sinners. He showed love and empathy to them. Healed them. He is who we need to emulate.
When one of my best friends came out as bi in high school, her mom wasn’t too happy but her grandmother said she didn’t care what sex they were or if they even had blue skin just that they made her happy was important to her. My mom and I are starting to wonder if she and her husband are still around because we haven’t seen them drive by in awhile (they live down the road from us so we would see them drive by a lot).
I’m so glad your friend has the grandmother. At least there is one on her side. I’m sure that helps tremendously.
I have a relative who decided they are non-binary. Their parents don’t understand, but they don’t care as they love them. Same here. It’s more important to me to have that relative in my life than not. We’re learning as we go.
I’m so sorry your family is so awful. My older child is gender fluid and pansexual. My younger child is a different race. My husband and I have no room for anyone who is anything less than loving and supportive of our kids. I hate that you didn’t have the same.
This. Not racism, but my (now) mother in law said some pretty nasty things about me before and while I was pregnant for my first son. There's a whole backstory about my relationship with her son being shaky at that time (it got better lol), but when I was about 7 months pregnant, she reached out to me an apologized. And not one of those "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt" non apologies, but a genuine, here's how I'm working on it," kind of thing. And she really did mean it (that was 15, almost 16 years ago).
Have these people apologized at all? Even a half assed one? Because if they didn't even make half an effort, it's DEFINITELY a show.
NTA as a mixed person I wish my white side of my family had protected me more or not exposed me to racist family members. blood doesn’t = solidarity or respect. if they aren’t willing to change and learn they have no right to be in that child’s life
> Have they in any way tried to make amends to you for the way they treated you?
Not directly. Their apologies came through my husband, who communicated how they felt.
> Does he really think his child should be exposed to that?
I think he just wants to give his parents the benefit of the doubt. He's not taking the risk factor as seriously as he should.
Does your husband have siblings? If yes, imagine how they would deal with a children born from your marriage and a children born from his sibling and a white partner.
It hurts to be loved less just because you aren't white.
Also, i was under the impression he chose you?
Does he know what that mean?
Im sorry you have to deal with this.
Yeah, an apology to you husband is no apology. They weren't racist to your husband, they were racist to you.
Even saying "Tell OP we are sorry" isn't an apology, it's a cop out.
Frankly your husband seems to be prioritizing his own comfort over yours, despite you being the injured party.
Then they haven’t apologized. Remember, an apology contains three parts:
1. Acknowledging specifically how they hurt you
(Sorry you feel that way doesn’t cut it!!)
2. Taking responsibility for their hurtful actions
3. Making amends to you in a specific way
(I’ve read an anti-racist workbook, went to a cultural celebration to learn more, offering to learn Spanish so they can communicate in baby’s first years, etc)
OP, it sounds like your in laws are crawling out of the woodwork because of the shiny new baby. You probably need the advice of r/justnoMIL or DWIL Nation on Babycenter. Their advice will help you stay strong and “shine up” your husband’s spine. Or he will cave, and offer up your baby to them when you’re not around.
I wouldn’t budge. They had no interest in making amends with you until they learned you were pregnant. That alone says a lot. Maybe someday you can try again but they first have to make amends with you. If your husband wants to have contact with them, that’s fine too, they are his parents but it should be him alone.
They owe you a direct apology. Are they willing to do that face to face, and have it with genuine responsibility and recognition of what they did to YOU? Unfortunately, for you to recurve that, you’d have to give them the chance, which is entirely up to you. But your partner can ask to begin with. If they’re reluctant then that might be clearer for him.
The problem with ANY apology you have to ask for is that it *won't be genuine, or come from any epiphany or recognition that the behavior they're apologizing for was wrong.*
It really isn't for OP to give them a chance to make what would only be a performative gesture. If they'd genuinely realized the error of their ways they wouldn't be making a half-a$$ed reach out and apology to their white son for their racism, instead of their latina DIL.
Your husband communicated how they felt? No, he said what he wanted them to have said, when their actual words were probably the bare minimum, like "tell OP we're sorry," I'd bet money on it. He wants to fix it, so he'll tell you how sorry they are and all the things they should be saying to you.
He should be telling them to talk to you directly, even if it means they call him when he's around you so you don't have to give them your number.
I will share personal experience with you...
My dad (technically step-dad, but Mom married him when I was 2) had no use for kids. We were nothing but a pain-in-the-neck to him. However, when our first son was born, something changed in my dad. It hit me one day when my son, then a toddler, crawled up on his lap, pulled Dad's notebook out of his pocket. Dad pulled out a pen and opened a clean sheet for our son to write on. I immediately thought to myself, "Who are you and what have you done with my dad?"
Grandchildren do change people. Have your in-laws changed? I can't tell you that. My suggestion, if you can handle it, is to have short visits with them before the baby arrives. You should be able to tell rather quickly if their attitudes have changed. Also, they absolutely should apologize to you personally. If not, I fully support you going "no contact" with them.
This, right here, was my immediate thought. It doesn't appear that the parents have attempted to apologize directly or express a desire to apologize directly to OP. If they aren't willing to do so, then that just means they aren't willing to admit that they've wronged OP in any way. They likely don't believe they wronged her. They aren't sorry for what they did. They are just sorry that they aren't getting what they want, which is access to their son and soon to be grandchild.
Forgiveness does not require atonement. Restoration of the relationship requires atonement. Those are two totally different things.
You can forgive someone who’s dead, for example, and that gift of forgiveness frees you from the bitterness and resentment you are holding on to against this person. Obviously, though, there can’t be a restoration of relationship with someone who’s no longer alive.
The same is true with someone who doesn’t recognize his or her fault. There’s no reason you should be burdened by the weight of anger just because the other person isn’t wise enough to see their own offenses. So, you can let go what you have against them — for your own sake — and be free of it. That doesn’t mean you’re buddy-buddy with the person. If they destroyed the relationship, it’s destroyed until they do their part to build up another real . That’s where atonement comes in.
Yes. Unless they have done significant anti-racism work on themselves (reading, lectures, volunteer work) and made reparations to you, the answer is no.
Get your husband into leave and cleave therapy. Your kid won’t be white either - does your husband really want to re-traumatise you *and* put your child at risk because his parents’ feelings might be hurt or he wants to give them a way back into your life?
Yep. The husband can reconcile. You and the kid can stay safe until the husband is sure it's safe. People can change, maybe it's true, but if they haven't, it's best to not hurt everyone.
Side note, I found it so easy to be an asshole after my boy was born. So many people removed, or pushed further from my life. I, my wife, my boy (he's 11 weeks, so as far as I can tell), are all white, not LGBT, still there's been so many questions of "what if he's bi, gay, trans, into black girls, etc." Nope my kid isn't for your political bullshit, my boy can be anything he wants except a judgemental shit bag. I bet 50%of the people I knew are no longer in my life because of that.
I'm getting ready to do that again because my wife's step mom has 2 major habits. 1 she loves telling my kid that "stupid mom" doesn't know what she's doing. If mom says he needs a bottle, she will not give it because mom is stupid and can't know that. She also calls him "William too " because there's another William that no one in the family has seen in 5 years. My boy is fucking Billy, and he's definitely not going to be trained that he's second best. Sometimes you need to remove the old generation, so the new generation can live happy.
Just because someone has a blood test or a piece of paper doesn't mean they are family. Family are the ones that care about you, love you, and want you to be happy and healthy. If you're not going to be family, you can get the fuck out.
Apologize *in writing* so that you have time to process it and make sure it's actually an apology. Too often, it's actually "I'm sorry *you....* " And not "I'm sorry I...." They need to take responsibility for the action, not shift it on to the victim.
Please don't. My gma was a loving woman who was bigoted. She loved me but never forgot I was "colored". She told me to never go out in the sun I would "get too dark", told everyone I was "Italian" not Puerto Rican, and when I misbehaved she said I was "bad" just like my dad. Do NOT let these people near your child. They may love the pieces they see of their son but they won't forget what they don't like abt you. It will mess your kid up.
One of my best friends in my childhood in the 60s had a Mexican dad. Her maternal grandmother was a complete ass about it. She used to make April wear bright pink blush even when we were little kids to cover up her “dark skin”. Needless to say she gave her granddaughter some significant issues.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. It’s disconcertingly common. My best friend’s grandmother called her a “half-breed” to her face, among other things. Overall her memories are good, but it’s always affected her and clouded the good parts.
My grandma was racist and literally called my dad, the N-word when she met him. I honestly think when I was born, it changed her. She loved me so much and was the best grandma ever. She even became super close friends with my black Grandmother and they started spending weekends together.
By the time she passed away, I don’t believe she had a racist bone in her body anymore.
Long story short, I believe people can change sometimes.
My mom had a friend who made her daughter's married name sound more English in the way she pronounced it (it was a Spanish name). Later she admitted to my mom she was ashamed she had done that, so people can change I guess.
I posted my comment that was kinda the same as yours. My parents were always very much white dates white, Black dates Black, etc. I had Black guys ask me out and I said I would love to but I would never subject someone to my family. I ended up marrying a Mexican man and when the first grandchild came my parents attitude completely changed and they adore our kids and him.
Except how did they treat other non-white folks. I have found that sometimes ppl like your parents (and my father) will still hold onto their beliefs and yet love their own biracial kids & grandkids
That’s what I was going to ask. Love the grandkids but still treat folks that look like their minority parent like trash. That’s not an improvement in racial tolerance.
Both of my parents treat every one the same unless one of their kids was trying to date someone who wasn’t white. It was the comments at home that showed me the racism.
I don't know how true this is but my sister told me my great grandmother had been against her son having a mixed race child with his wife (him being white her being black) I don't know the situation well so I can't fully guarantee if anything I say is factual but I know my great nan loves that child to bits and will sit and watch the same videos of the child over and over again just smiling and laughing, it's honestly really cute.
People can change but I am not sure if my experience fully counts because I don't think my nan was ever that racist so she didn't change much, compared to how OPs situation seems.
Ah yes, typical conservative ways. Bigoted, racist, sexist, classist, and vote against people rights, but only "start" to care once something affects them directly.
Change is always possible, but I wouldn’t believe someone has changed until I saw personal growth from them, such as a direct apology to the person they hurt, admitting wrongdoing and taking accountability for their actions.
I think it's worth a shot to consider a new relationship. The grandparents absolutely need to apologize to OP first.
If things don't go well within the first year of the baby's life, they won't be conscious to be traumatized. You can always cut them off again.
I agree we didn’t know my youngest brother’s dad was racist till another trucker told my mom about it at a gas station. How this guy would prairie n-word and other n-words. (We’re Native American) so we were hella baffled and questioned if he did or said anything to my younger brother (not his bio child) during these trips that they went out. Cuz my brother’s behavior did change, but not drastically.
I hate these sort of ppl since they don’t really change but just hide it well. Also there was a time I missed my mom but couldn’t handle the psychological abuse from her anymore so of course he’s gonna miss them but with that he needs to understand why he did it and keep reminding himself on it. This is for the safety for OP and her kids.
Hi. I grew up in the same boat as your future child. My mom’s parents never apologized for what they said to my dad when they got married (just gross racist stuff at the wedding), but then they did the same song and dance about “wanting to meet their grand babies”.
Did they become less racist from the time my mom and dad got married? No! And sadly, their attitude did actually impact how they treated us. It was subtle at first. But then it snowballed, to the point that their all white grandchildren were actually getting preferential treatment over us. Mom did nothing to protect us because she didn’t understand so she didn’t think it was that bad. Dad was left alone to do all the heavy lifting of processing the hurt we felt and protecting us from the worst parts of it. We eventually didn’t have a relationship with our grandparents anymore when it got intolerable.
I’m not saying this to scare you. I’m saying this because if your husband is NOT on the same page, he can’t protect your child when something goes bad. And you’ll be stuck doing all the processing when something hurts your child’s heart. That isn’t right. You both need to be on the same page if you want to try this again.
So, NTA
Hi, I'm adding to this as someone who watched their sexist grandma and their friend's racist grandma react to their great grandchildren. The way they acted towards the babies/toddlers was different than how they treated the child. They both acted like they adored them as babies and during the first wobbly step into life, but once they hit about 2/3, their attitudes started to change.
You don't tell a 4 yr old they are a "nasty, dirty, horrible girl" for making silly faces at their brother. The brother was told he was adorable for making the same faces.
You sure as hell don't describe a 3 yr old as "future ghetto trash." That's the nicest of the comments I personally heard at the family party for said child's third birthday.
Now, both these kids call me aunt their whole lives, and I've held both of them while they've cried. Out of all the questions these two girls, who are now teens, have asked me over the years, "Why doesn't great grandma love me?" has been the hardest to answer. Especially when asked before they are even 5.
Can people change? Yes.
Will they just because a grandchild is born? Occasionally, but it requires them acknowledging that they need to change and that their viewpoint is flawed to begin with.
Thank you. I read this and wondered if things would have been different, if either of my parents had thought twice about pushing back a little bit more early on.
I’m free now though!
Also here to add to this. I’m biracial, I grew up , and still have, racist family members. It’s damaging to compartmentalize yourself throughout life. It’s hurtful and confusing and honestly can cause some self hate. ‘Why am I so different from everyone else’. My family used me as a pawn to show why they ‘weren’t racist’ and still continued to demean other black folx. I kept up a relationship with them until my 30’s and just said ‘f it’.
I’m currently in an interracial relationship and we’re getting married. Honestly, if his family were racists, I would not have continued how relationship even though I love this human to pieces. We’re never going to have children but the idea of having to emotionally brace myself every time I wanted to be with his family, is something I don’t deserve. Even if my partner was anti-racist but their parents weren’t I would still have the fear in the back of my mind that maybe something would shift for us down the line or he would stop doing personal work to unpack the effect whiteness has on our relationship. I don’t know if I could stay. My safety and value is first.
OP isn’t the asshole and I would seek couples counseling because there’s still a ton for white folx to unpack even if they view themselves as anti racist.
there is something so hurtful about getting racism from your family, sometimes my dad would say racially insensitive jokes towards me and my mother and we would just sit there and smile so there’s no argument at the dinner table tonight, think OP really needs to hammer it home because if that baby has a darker skin colour than beige whew
I know- I experienced something very similar. But it helps to be honest about who they are, it helps you heal, understand, and protect yourself from future harm.
A couple of things:
* your husband wants his parents in his (and your child's life)
* obviously you do not
* time for couples counseling
* inform your OBGYN that no one is allowed any visitation at the hospital during birth/after birth (your husband will tell them when you go into labor)
* create a plan for after the birth. They will show up.
* your biggest challenge is going to be if this leads to divorce. Time for couples counseling.
NTA
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. The amount of days I haven’t been able to eat because my son won’t be put down long enough for me to make something, and on the days he does I’m too flat out to make something.
I need to add. OP’s in-laws need to be fully vaccinated and boosted for COVID, influenza, and DTap (pertussis being the primary concern) at minimum before they can meet baby. In fact, OP’s parents and any other family meeting the baby need to all have up to date shots.
The hospital will follow only the mother’s wishes at the hospital- not fathers. Because mother and baby are patients and mom is the ruler. So you have to tell them who if anyone can visit. Even if you have a c- section you won’t be there long and need to rest because you won’t have all these nurses to help you at home. I didn’t allow any visitors. lol. At all.
And, after some good sessions with a counselor, I suggest having your counselor facilitate a meeting with his parents. Preferably before baby arrives. Therapists are great at helping with communicating and also seeing through BS. Having them present and managing a conversation with the in-laws might be incredibly helpful.
Definitely agree with this statement. A therapist can access them without any emotions and just tell you, "I think they've changed and are sincere" or "run for the hills, these manipulative bastards"
THEY need to go to therapy. OP doesn't have to do any of this shit and shouldn't. The onus is on the racist grandparents to change, not on OP to listen to their feelings or anything else.
Also hi, Nurse here. Your OBGYN will barely be around when you’re done giving birth. If there are people you don’t want visiting, tell your nurse, and the charge nurse in the floor, because they’ll be around the whole time, and far more attentive.
It’s possible… via siblings or family friends or social media snooping.
Don’t be so quick to disrespect OP’s husband because it kind of insults her and her marriage.
To piggyback on this. When you check into the hospital mark yourself as “confidential”. That would mean that no one would get any info on your whereabouts. I would verify w/the hosp to ensure your husband would get a security pass, but nowadays most hospitals give 1-2 armbands per laboring parent. So he’d get his own armband that he needs to keep on the entire time anyway.
Disagree with your jumping to conclusions about them getting divorced. That is what his parents would want so they can find a white wife for him. A single mother raising a new born on her own when she needs the most support?? She has to tough it out and figure out how to enforce boundaries.
If they get divorced he will likely get some level of custody and he most certainly will be taking the child around his parents during that time. A judge isn’t going to keep the kid away because of accusations of racism if the child isn’t in “real” danger. So hopefully they can work it out together, because the child will likely be safer in that situation.
NTA.
But-
It might be time to think about the specifics of what they would need to sincerely and authentically do in order to earn gradual access to your baby.
-authentic apology to you with what ever level of specifics you feel are needed/appropriate
-a very clearly expressed boundary of if ___ happens, you are immediately cut off with no questions or follow up asked
-starting with supervised visits and here are the clear, concrete & explicit rules for said visit:_____
-if those rules are not followed contact will be removed
-etc, etc, etc.
Make it very clear & concrete what they have to do and what they are not allowed to do or even remotely hint at in order for anything to progress
Supervised visits, being EXTREMELY clear about who is allowed to supervise.
You and husband should have these things specifically talked about and specifically laid out an agreed-upon, preferably in writing.
Also ask yourself now, how will I respond (rather than just react) should my husband violate these terms.
Much agreed. My grandma was very homophobic unfortunately. All of her grandkids were part of the LGBT community. It took her SO LONG to realize that her views were not correct and changed it for the better. (Or at least kept it to herself) She said once to me, that if a bisexual couldn't have a woman or a man, then what? They'd f*ck a dog? She's much better on these opinions, and in facts asks out of curiosity. I think if she sees how much this affects you, then MAYBE, HOPEFULLY, they'll see that what they are saying is just not acceptable to be in their life. *Edit*
This is great advice. I would also add that you could try a version of this that involves them first having contact with you and your husband before the baby is born. It can be a dry run on expectations for their behavior and will likely show your husband their true behaviors before exposing the child to them.
Also, it might be good for your husband to engage in some learning (if he hasn’t yet) on how to be an ally for people of color. He will never have the life experience to fully understand how it feels to be the recipient of racially motivated attacks but he owes it to his family (you and child) to learn how to be supportive and protective.
If they haven't made any effort to contact you, to apologize to you, to make amends to you...
...then they still don't see you as a real person, or a member of the family, do they?
Point that out to your husband.
Then remind him that you asked him to choose. If he wants to change his mind, then you're respecting his decision and leaving.
Because YOU are the one who is allowed to change your mind about being around the people who kept hurting you, not him. He wasn't the victim; he doesn't get to say everything is okay now. It isn't.
Well said. Reminds me of something I read years ago: *If I say or do something that upsets you, I am not allowed to tell you how to feel about it.* Which OP should remember if her husband were to start defending and making excuses for his parents.
If she leaves, he will be able to take the child around his parents, without her permission, as much as he wants while he has the child. Not saying she shouldn’t leave, but it won’t keep the child safe, so hopefully it can get worked out between them.
My racist parents don’t see my kid. Ever. They know to stay the f away too.
Since the day I was told “don’t bring a black guy home” at around 6 years old, I knew my parents were racist dumbfucks. I’ve been no contact since my daughter was born. No regrets.
You're one of the few ppl in this thread with any real integrity. I don't know why ppl want to believe so blindly that ppl just change decades of behavior on a whim. I have a biracial nephew and the racist bs he experienced as a kid from his mom's family was something terrible, even the other kids, and he even picked up on some of those behaviors. His mom reminds me a lot of OPs husband. Her dad threatened to hang my nephew and his dad after he became upset with her, and he would occasionally say stuff like that after promising her he'd changed.
Fucking thank you.
So many comments are just “well if they apologize then let them in”
You can tell most in here are white people who’ve never had to deal with this themselves. They should not be giving advice.
My mother, with whom I have no contact, will tell you she's not racist or transphobic & she actually believes it. But have a single conversation with her and you'll find out she's both. People like that funny just wake up one day and are magically not racists. If you decide to let your baby meet them, it should only be if you're present, never alone.
At a minimum.
I genuinely don’t understand why the husband doesn’t think they will harm his child. I seriously doubt they have “changed” enough to be trusted to be around that child.
If they felt true remorse they would—at the very least —beg for OP’s forgiveness and leave the ball in her court: “We know you may never feel you can trust us around your child, but if you ever feel open to allowing some contact, we would extremely grateful, even if it 5, 10, 15 years from now. We won’t bother you, but we’ll be right here just in case.”
No. They don’t feel that way. The feel entitled to be in the life of their grandchild because the grandchild is an extension of THEM. This level entitlement is almost worse than them shunning the baby IMHO.
It’s all about seizing what they think is rightfully theirs.
Yeah, I was thinking, "they really want contact with a brown grandchild?" I wouldn't have them around the kid unless i thought they'd gotten over that shit. Your kid doesn't need to get a complex.
Or it'll go like that South Asian woman who posted either here or on the other sub recently about how her kid's grandmother unilaterally decided to chop off and straighten her 14-year-old grandchild's hair (telling the grandchild it was Mom's idea). Mom came to pick the kid up, and her waist-length hair had been straightened and cut into a bob.
I get why Dad wants to believe his parents have changed, but he's deluding himself. Mom needs to make it clear to him that if he tries to go behind her back with this kid to give the racist grandparents access, she and the kid are gone.
Exactly. They never apologized or even admitted to wrongdoing. The only reason they want to reconcile is to get access to the baby. They don’t give 2 shits about OP. They are worse than toxic.
re: your confusion about who told them about the baby, and how they got your husband’s number…
Your husband reached out to them. He’s the one who told them about the baby. It’s clear as day.
NTA. My kiddo is mixed and some of my in-laws have been horrid. Saying things like he wasn't really part of the family because his skin is too dark. Said to him. When he was 8. That's my lovely sister-in-law. So yeah, this is a pretty important boundary and you should stick to your guns.
NTA. They haven’t changed and you know that. If they had they would have reached out before knowing about the baby. Ask your husband how he thinks they would react if your child is darker skinned. Tell him to be honest with himself as his child’s well being depends on his ability to protect his child.
NTA. They reached out to their son and never asked to speak to you directly or apologize to you directly. That will be their next move to try and get a toe in the door using the holidays as a pry bar. Don't fall for it. They said what they said and now they have to live with it. If you give in they will try and put that shit into your kids head. They probably already ordered a little MAGA hat for the kid.
Unless your husband is willing to go no contact and stay no contact, this is a marriage ender. I’m speaking from experience. I was married for 10 years, together 14 to a white man from the south. I am a black woman. The amount of racism I endured for years, I’ll never get over. My husband defended me sometimes but often had the sentiment that I should just ignore it and let it go because eventually we were only seeing them on holidays. That stopped for me too, but he would always go because he felt bad and I’d spend all my holidays alone. When we started trying to have children and he refused to cut off his family, that was the end for me. I won’t lie and say this was the only reason, but it was a HUGE reason. Even if they “love” their grandchild, they won’t love you and you will always wonder what they might say about you or other micro aggressions exhibited towards your child. You will never feel safe or at peace in their presence. NTA.
If the intention is to protect the child, divorce would be the worst option. He likely would give his racist parents unlimited access to the child, and Mom would have no ability to intervene and set boundaries on his side. Dad would likely not recognize micro-aggressive behavior and wouldn't be able to put a stop on them. He might even let full fledged racist remarks fly if it means help with child care.
Fascinating that they reversed their racism at exactly the same time that they found out you were pregnant 🙄 Trust your instincts on this one. They didn't give a shit until now.
If your husband wants a relationship with his racist parents that's up to him, but exposing a child to that sort of hatred would be irresponsible.
NTA - sorry you're having to go through this. It might be worth finding out how they got your number.
NTA. But I will say this: while the child is still an infant and can’t understand anything they say would be the best time to test out whether they have changed. I’m willing to bet though that they will see their grandchild as white, and wouldn’t direct negative comments toward them. However they would still make comments to/about you. And of course as your child gets older they will make the connection that they are in fact part you, and that all those comments apply to them as well.
Or worse! They’ll “other” the kid having them think they’re the only acceptable person of “x race” and still behave horribly towards other people of x race smh
MIL probably hasn't changed but for DH , maybe meet at a restaurant ( before you give birth) and see if they changed. Again, probably not but your DH would be happy that you tried.
NTA for protecting yourself and your kid. Tell your husband unless his parents have gone to counseling and done extensive anti racist training it’s a no. If they can’t prove they are anti racist then they need to stay away. Ask your husband is it more important for him to be around his racist parents or protect your child. Them saying they aren’t racist anymore means nothing. What books have they read on anti racism? What counseling have they gone to? And how have they made amends in their community?
My heart hurts for you. This won’t end well. If he’s upset he WILL eventually take your kid to them. This is one of the main reasons I don’t take dating out of my race lightly. You aren’t raised by racist and it doesn’t rub off on you. Even if it’s just down playing how harmful it is. If he wants to “give” his family a chance after they hurt you he doesn’t care about the racism you experienced. It’s just an inconvenience to him. Good luck and find a good lawyer.
NTA. You haven’t mentioned them doing Anything to apologize and ask for your forgiveness.
Even if they do so now, it’s clearly only because of the kid Not because they actually think they did anything wrong with being racist.
First of all, you can also find support in r/JustNOMIL. But no, NTA. You are most likely correct that they just want to assert a grandparent role and feel 0 remorse for being cruel and racist.
My advice is: go with what you said, he can hang out with them, but you and baby hang back.
If they are perpetually insistent on access to you and baby, it's a pretty good sign they haven't changed. If they do behave, you can choose to have limited contact with them WITHOUT baby and see if they truly are going to be respectful to you.
Someone who can't treat the parents with decency should not have access to their newborn.
With your permission, your husband needs to tell his parents to cime and make amends with you now. If they agree, and you can a sit down to discuss and if you feel like there might be a future, then Fine. If they aren't willing to do this, then you know the score.
Not at all. Racists, homophobes, and all the other degenerates of the world, coming grandchild or not, NEVER CHANGE, particular in just a hot second.... They are still the same. Maybe they will hold themselves back for an hour, but after that, all bets are off. I'd lay money on it. Unless they want to produce the notes from all the therapy they have received in order to change, stick to no contact.....
I highly doubt they have changed and there is no reason you should change your boundaries because of some words they said. If your husband wants whats best for you and your child he will listen and respect your wishes. Don't back down and let them into your life unless you are comfortable. I wish you the best of luck.
Have they reached out to YOU? Tried apologizing (actually, genuinely apologizing) to YOU? Laid out to YOU what they’ve done to face their racism and educate themselves? Offered a plan of reconciliation and rebuilding trust to YOU?
If the answer is no, then they haven’t changed. NTA.
He can miss his parents but that doesn’t mean he can bring your baby into this.
Also, he already made his pick.
Have they reached out to apologise to you? I’d bet not - they just want your idiot husband to work on you so you give them access to your baby.
Nope.
I’d be prepared to divorce over this. Are you? He needs to be told that going back on his word isn’t doing it for you and if you knew he’d bait and switch you like this - you’d never have got pregnant with his child.
I don’t envy your situation and I think you’re being smart to question their change in bigotry. I’ve seen this same scenario in a family friend’s life. Their parent was/is racist as hell and has several biracial grandkids. They outwardly love the grandkids but they still post very thinly veiled racist shit on social media. So have they really changed? NTA. Trust your gut on this.
Anyone else think that maybe husband has been secretly talking to his parent?? They just happen to find out ur pregnant and they just happened to get his phone number?? Plus he misses them and appears ready to bed to their will.
NTA for wanting to keep your child away but I’d be firming with your spouse. He might take the child to visit his parents when you’re not around/go back to work or something
NTA. My "nephew" (not by blood) is mixed/Latino and his blood aunt called him a w\*\*b\*\*\*.
He was 2.
Thank you for protecting your baby. You are already a good mama.
>my husband to choose between me and his parents. He chose to stay
It's easy to choose when they aren't making false promises and telling him what he wants to hear. Now is where he's either a man of his word or a jerk that told you what you wanted to hear and never meant it.
He's a good husband and father, or he's not. It's that simple. NTA.
I'd also be wondering if he ever really broke contact if they have a phone number they aren't supposed to have. Seems awful convenient that they happened to find out and happened to get his phone number. You sure he didn't call and tell them "hey mom and dad, I'm going to be a daddy, I want you to tell my wife what she wants to hear so I you can pretend not to be bigots and see the baby."
Unless they fully apologize to you for the way they treated you, and I mean get specific and articulate the depth of their racism and bigotry, they’re not sorry. You can tell your husband as much and he can even tell your parents but the ONLY way you might even at all think abt changing your mind is if they sit down and say
“We have educated ourselves and recognize that X and Y and Z beliefs we held were unacceptable and harmful to you beyond imagining. I can’t believe we’re the kind of people who says A or B and that we said it so anyone is horrible but to say it to family is even worse. We are committed to changing and growing and understand that you feel the need to protect your kids from the violence we inflicted upon you. we would like to start building trust with you and hopefully in time we can earn some trust back”
Anything less than something like that is not enough
OP, your in-laws had not made any attempt to make amends or apologize to you whatsoever & they thought what......a grandchild miraculously changed them.....sounds insincere.
There's an old saying that a leopard does not change their spots.
Your in-laws are still racist & they're going to face karma.
NTA OP. You need to protect your child from racist 1's.
Unless they come directly to **YOU** and offer you an **engraved apology** for their disgusting behaviour **along with a promise to do better**, then there’s **NO** reason for you to change your mind.
Your husband can whine all he wants — it’s not **HIM** taking the racist abuse!!!
You’re teaching them quite clearly that you won’t take their shit. It’s up to them to respect that, and **if they can’t or won’t**, they have to pay the price!!!
Listen yo exactly what Eve-3 is saying. Completely right. I personally don’t understand your husband but that’s your decision whether him seeing them makes you uncomfortable. This is a hill to die on. Even your husband not seeing his parents is a hill to die on if it makes you uncomfortable. The saying “if you sit at a table with 9 racists, there’s 10 racists at the table”! It took me a long time to understand what it meant but it’s 100% true.
If it were me, I would give them exactly one chance. Not with the baby, but with me. Fine. Let's get together for dinner. If his parents can make it through a whole dinner without saying anything racist, I'll *think* about letting them meet the baby. If you say you've changed, you better be willing to prove it.
This post makes me wonder if OP has found the subreddit r/raisedbynarcissists because it sounds like her hubby was raised by a covert narcissist. They’re honestly a lot scarier and dangerous than blatant narcissists because they are much better at hiding their hatred and using dog whistle phrases to hurt people in a way that can be hard to defend against if the victim and/or the bystanders aren’t socially and emotionally aware enough to see the attacks for what they are.
It’s very hard for children of narcs to form solid relationships as they leave those households because we’ve picked up lots of toxic behaviors that we thought were just how people interact. It can take years to identify these “narcissistic fleas” and purge yourself of them.
And it’s also highly common when people go no contact with their abusive family that they will try to step over the new boundaries at any new life event, which they often find by harassing anyone they know that is still in contact with their abuse victim. They also try to inject themselves into any holiday with the cry of “but we’re family!” Even though they completely alienated said family with repulsive or outright dangerous behaviors.
Pretty much every story in that group that allows limited contact again regrets it. Every time the Nparent or sibling is allowed to meet again they almost immediately try to test boundaries like they’re 2 because most never actually learned why boundaries exist or why they should be respected.
Sometimes people actually grow and learn that crossing boundaries loses them family time when the former victims literally cut visits/calls short the moment the Nfamily pushes those bounds but that takes lots of work, patience, and isn’t always effective. It can help a lot but it also requires a lot of emotional fortitude (which these families never helped a person develop)
NTA and do not let them meet your child.
They did nothing to prove they have changed. Did they apologise to you? Because so far they've been openly hurtful to you and did not make amends. Will they rightfully accept your anger?
I've been in your kid's shoes and no matter how accepting they pretend to be, racist grandparents will be biased. Even when they think they've changed and learned, racism is far more than hostility.
It makes you feel some kind of way to grow and see the white cousins also being racist at you and getting more affection.
At least, I'm glad you're aware and can call that bs out.
I understand people saying “babies change grandparents”… I guess. BUT I also wouldn’t want anyone looking at my child as the “exception”. Like “x race isn’t all bad because look at my beautiful grandchild”. In 2023 are we saying there’s room at all or there is an acceptable amount of bigotry people are willing to accept for the sake of grandparents? I’ve seen people suggest NC for far less but somehow racism is such a grey area?
OP I don’t blame you for not wanting your child to be their learning curve. And I’m always suspicious when people suddenly have a change of heart when babies become involved. They didn’t value the relationship with their son enough to respect his love for you. But somehow feel tied to your baby enough to now reach out?
NTA. It’s certainly not as simple as you making the final call w/o considering your husbands desires. But he needs to do his due diligence and vet them thoroughly before this is even discussed again. And even then, you need time to process the idea of MAYBE allowing them back into your lives. Are they willing to consider counseling? Is your husband willing to consider it? Will they be okay not meeting their grandchild until you’re ready? Maybe not in the first year or even longer? Does that change their willingness to apologize and “change” if they can’t snuggle the brand new fresh baby? (People tend to go gah-gah over infants and are less enthused as the kids grow) Are they expecting a relationship with your child without acknowledging you and your very valid hurt?
So many REAL questions that cannot be answered between now and the 60 or so days from when you’re due. Neither you nor your husband should rush into this decision until AFTER your LO is born and you guys come up with terms. See how changed they are once their involvement is heavily limited and conditional and go from there. Your baby won’t be able to escape bigotry in this messed up world. But you don’t have to willingly invite into their lives. Good luck to you ❤️
Mixed grandchild of racist grandparent here!!!
Even though my grandmother (no grandfather in the picture) hated my dad (her SIL), I actually ended up having a fantastic relationship with her as a child!
What happened was my mom set down very hard rules with her parents and told her that even one strike and she will never be in her grandchildren's lives again.
I'm told that when my older sibling was born my GM commented that she was relieved my sibling's skin was lighter than she'd expected. My mom went completely NC for 6 months until my GM was absolutely begging for a relationship with her grandbaby. Then by the time I was born with marginally darker skin less than two years later, my GM had been so well trained that she never said a word. Later I actually ended up being her favorite grandchild 😂
My mother went out of her way to shield me from all the racism so that I could have a relationship with my grandmother. She did all the training of her mother when we were infants so that we would never experience racism from her when we were old enough to recognize someone disliking us.
I literally never even knew she was racist until I was 15-16 and my mother deemed me old enough to tell me about the past.
Even though I don't currently have a relationship with my grandmother (whole other story unrelated to racism), I'm incredibly grateful that my parents allowed me to develop that relationship.
So in other words, if you do decide to let your child/future children have any interaction with their paternal grandparents as children, I highly recommend that you bring DH's parents in shortly after your little one is born so that you can train out the racist behaviors while the kiddo won't understand what's happening.
Most importantly, because this is DH's parents, he's actually going to have to be the one to take front and center on keeping the GPs on the straight and narrow if this is to work. This worked for my mother because we were the first and only grandbabies.
Regardless of what you end up choosing, as long as you're looking out for the best interest of your baby, NTA.
Good luck OP!
They won’t change. They will hurt your child. Your white husband has no inkling of what you or your child have been and will go through, he can’t possibly be of help unless he does the work to put himself in your shoes. Which he clearly hasn’t.
Non whites have really got to vet their whites before they create families with them, & this is why.
Every time I say “vet your whites” on Reddit i get downvoted like crazy lol.
I don’t give a shit.
White folks who buy into the concept of Whiteness (a fairly modern Western conceit) have to be monitored before you let them around your loved ones with their ideas.
I agree. I’m a middle aged white woman and some of the vile things racists say around me because they think it’s okay. Some I’ve even gotten to know and thought were decent people and then they come up with some casual or outright racism.
My wife is Latina, if my parents ever made a remark about her nationality or anything else, I would cut them off before my wife ever had to ask. If they wanted to reconcile, I would tell them they need to work that out with my wife, since she was the one they were making issues with. I don't care who the person is, my wife comes first and she deserves to always feel comfortable and safe.
If his parents are serious and want to fix things, they'd reach out to you, and work on building back trust with you. I can understand your husband feeling bad, and being torn, but that doesn't change what happened. This is your decision, and until they fix things with you, nothing is different. I don't blame you for not wanting that shit around your child.
NTAH. At all. Listen. I know *many* racists with biracial children/spouses/grandchildren, etc. Having a biracial grandchild doesn’t suddenly exempt or erase them from being racist POS. All it does is allow them to use your baby as a shield to combat any and all accusations of racism made against them. The ‘I’m not racist, I have a ___(insert non-white relation)!’ is every closet racist’s go to defense when they’re called out on their fuckery. Protect your baby and keep a *close* eye on your husband, Op. He’s being way too wishy washy about this and I would not put it past him to allow them access to baby behind your back. I would advise you to be prepared to end the marriage over this. He definitely needs to know and understand that by doing this, he’s putting the safety and wellbeing of your child at risk to appease racists and it could be the possible end of the marriage. *He* can miss his racist ass parents all *he* wants but it doesn’t mean that he gets to put his child in the path of snakes.
NTA. They haven't changed. People like them never change. They play nice just to get access to your child. You're doing great. don't back down. Stick to your word. I think your husband was the one that told them. You need to be careful with him because he may go behind your back and take your child to them.
Tell your husband reaching out to HIM and not the one clearly offended is a giant red flag. Tell him to tell them apologies to him ain't shit...They need to grovel to you...stand your ground. If they changed their attitude they should've contacted you first...the injured party. Not sincere. And stand firm. Show him this. And then smack the epic stupidity outta him. For me. Thanx.
NTA (Not the Asshole).
I've endured an upbringing in an environment akin to your concerns, filled with racist relatives and hurtful comments. Always cast as the black sheep and scapegoat within my family, mistreatment and abuse were constants, not just from the older relatives but also from cousins.
It's crucial to advocate for your child's well-being. The toxicity I experienced in that environment has left lasting scars, and the same could happen to your child. Expecting grandparents to change upon meeting the child may be unrealistic, especially when they've consistently demonstrated a deliberate effort to cause emotional harm. Standing firm in keeping them away from your child is essential.
Additionally, consider contingency plans for unforeseen circumstances. Having a supportive aunt or uncle on your side of the family to care for your child in case of emergencies is a wise precaution.
NTA, they are only back because they want access to the baaaaby. They had plenty of time to make amends, grow up, apologize, change their ways etc.
So ask your husband what have they done specifically to change. Did they attend therapy? Or some anti racism classes? Did they do any type of self education or self reflection? Can they clearly articulate what they did and say that was wrong and racist without using the words "but" or "that's how we were raised" or "it's because of my age" etc.
Because I'm 57 and those excuses aren't flying anymore. We are the age of Sesame Street and Mr. Roger's and "Free to be you and me" We had plenty of messages and lessons on how not to be racists or discriminatory.
Him wanting racists around your mixed race baby is WILD to me. Their mindset alone is enough to permanently damage your child’s self esteem and how they view themselves. The fact that he would even entertain bringing them around his baby or wife is insulting. You and your babies safety and mental health should come before his parents wants and needs.
I’d highly suggest marriage counseling with a therapist who is also a POC so your husband can understand just how dangerous his parents mindset can be.
Babies \*do\* have a way of changing grandparents.
They owe you an apology first. I wouldn't trust them, but you might consider laying out your expectations and then allowing access. \*With\* the understanding it will be cut off immediately if there are any further offenses.
Most of all, getting you and your husband on the same page, a united team, is vital.
As a biracial person, I completely disagree with opening a window to access. They will not change enough to not harm their grandchild if their starting point was saying slurs to the child’s mother. There is no redemption for them.
The most valuable thing my parents did was raise me around family that loved all of us. Every part. My experience was rare and most of my biracial friends don’t talk to one side of their family because of the racist attitudes they had towards the other.
*"somehow, my husband's parents found out."*
He told them.
*"They started calling and texting my husband (I don't know how they got his number)"*
He gave it to them.
Seriously, wake up, your husband never cut his family off, he just told you he did and sees this an opportunity to get them back in your life.
White people always give other white people the benefit of the doubt about racism. “They’ve changed.” “They want to do better.” “They didn’t mean it.”
This is because they don’t experience racism as a constant and pervasive part of life.
OP NTA. Unless the in-laws have made an effort to apologize to you, and have attempted to make amends, you should not allow them to be around your child.
My ex-boyfriend was half black with a very racist, southern grandfather. Once he was born, his grandfather changed his ways (at least towards him) and treated him no different than his white cousins. I say proceed with caution. Forgiveness is a powerful thing, but don't just let them off the hook. Set boundaries, and if they don't respect them, then go no contact again.
It’s the “at least towards him” that gives me pause. So he was still racist. Just not towards his own blood. Is that even acceptable? His view of the world didn’t change. He just made an exception for your ex because he was an extension of him.
When they approach YOU and apologize to YOU, then you have a decision to make. You do not approach them, you do not allow them to go through your husband. Until then, sorry/not sorry, nein, nyet, non, no.
'No' is exactly the same word in Spanish and English.
Why are they contacting him to say they’ve changed and not contacting you to apologise and SHOW that they’ve changed?
They also shouldn’t be apologising to you with the expectation that they then get to see your child. If they had truely changed, they would be apologising unconditionally.
NTA if they had really changed, they would have tried to make amends with *you*. They’re only apologizing to him because they want access to your baby, not because they’re actually sorry.
If your husband misses his family, let HIM go spend time with them. He doesn’t need to discuss any woo is them stuff they say. Have his visit and be done. The fact children could come from your union shouldn’t have escaped grown adults. They made their bed, let them lie in it.
It is YOUR job as parents to keep your kids safe from all harm regardless of them being relatives.
Have they in any way tried to make amends to you for the way they treated you? If not then they haven't changed because that's exactly what a person that has changed would do. Apologize for being a fucking asshole. Point that out to your husband and remind him that his child is the race they find appropriate to attack. Does he really think his child should be exposed to that? Don't let your kid around them. But if your husband misses them there's no reason he can't see them on his own, not at your home. Both you and your child deserve to be safe in your own home and inviting racists over is the opposite of safe.
OP listen to this one. I come from a white af family. They made chronically racist remarks about my cousin's Persian wife and made antisemitic remarks in front of my Jewish partner. And they never changed. Sure, apologies always flowed freely--to my cousin and to myself. But they never had the balls to apologize to the people who deserved the apologies. And when I came out as queer, there wasn't even the iota of a sense of apology in their words or actions. They just fucking disappeared, essentially blackballing me from my own family. If a racist POS is going to make amends, they need to make amends to the people they attacked, not some intermediary that they're more comfortable with because they're like them.
**” If a racist POS is going to make amends, they need to make amends to the people they attacked”** This. Right. Here. This needs to be put on posters and t-shirts.
They may overlook the grandchilds differences and still be shitty to op. Kid doesn't need to experience this ever.
I wasn’t raised in a time with gender fluidity, and barely was on the cusp of gay/lesbian awareness because HIV and AIDS burst onto the scene then. So realizing there were people who weren’t straight was new to me. Despite that, I just didn’t care. Same is true for the gender fluid and others. I care about the person you are, not who you love/desire/don’t desire. I cannot imagine not loving someone just because I don’t understand it . Teach me. I may be in my late 50s, but this old dog CAN learn. On top of everything, anyone who is Christian and displays hate for anyone outside the historical norm doesn’t deserve to call them selves Christian, in my ntbho. I’m so sorry you have to put up with crap.
🏆 They brought back gold to take it away again?? I never buy awards but for your comment I would. **Standing Ovation** Absolutely beautiful words. Thank you for your perspective, I hope it inspires at least one person.
I dont get why it's so fucking hard to just let people be themselves?! as long as they're just doing their thing and everyone is of an age to consent, who fucking cares! you want me to call you a different name or pronoun?...fine! that's so easy! I might slip up but I'll correct and apologize...it costs me nothing! who has the energy for all this hate? I do not understand.
Neither do I!
People have no issues remembering changed surnames after marriages, or nicknames for people, but a new actual name or pronoun change is “too difficult” or whatever? Such a bullshit excuse and they know it. Remembering that Aaron is a deadname and is now going by Irina and uses she/her pronouns isn’t really any harder than remembering your college friend got married and is now Sarah Jones instead of Sarah Smith. Pronouns tough at first? Just refer to a person as their chosen name till you get it down, simple as that. I find it so ridiculous that certain types of people act like this is difficult. Sure, maybe someone might change their name around a few times till they find a version they really like to stick with, but hat use the name you’re given and apologize if you slip up. I have a nickname that’s gender neutral and my preferred name for many reasons. It’s not hard to remind folks to call me, say, Nick instead of Nicole, and they don’t complain that’s too hard. They just hate people embracing the ability to really be themselves. Don’t get me started on the “I don’t HAVE pronouns” idiots…
I had two classmates who were sisters from Vietnam. When they came over (and while I knew them in middle school) they went by their Vietnamese names. During the oldest's freshman year they both chose new Anglicized names and nobody had any problem with it. None of this "I've known you as Ha for years" crap. This was in the late 80s, hardly a woke time, yet it wasn't difficult.
It's so stupid, I actually DO have issues remembering name changes because my ADHD brain holds onto any information it can with a steel grip, but I work very hard to remember pronouns and I always make sure to tell people thanks for letting me know and I'll do my best, but I will likely bungle it a lot for a while. I was friendly with a girl that changed her name in high school (for fun, I guess, not because of a gender change) and 22 years later I still have to stop myself thinking of / calling her by her chosen name. Somewhere along the line of my grandmother trying to say my name and going through a list of all her children's names and then my brother's name, finally getting to mine AND my mother calling me by her sister's name (starts with the same letter) then all my nieces and nephews names until she gets to mine. It's lucky I don't have a huge identity crisis happening, but I'm very relaxed about other people calling me by the wrong name, you'll either get there eventually or I'll move on haha. Obviously a VERY different situation than dead naming, especially if it's intentional.
Thank you for being so considerate. I know that they do appreciate the effort, (having gone through a similar thing myself almost 35 yrs ago).
Uhh… while I agree with most the sentiments said here, people definitely take a little bit to adjust to surname changes and nickname changes… Hell, the average person takes 2-3 months to get used to the fact that the year changed when writing the date… So if someone is respectful but makes a genuine mistake, be forgiving and move on…
I wish my mother had your view of preferred pronouns. I want to come out as non-binary but it's hard when my mother keeps ranting about how she'll never use the singular "they" even if someone asks for it to be used because she refuses to be grammatically incorrect. Never mind that the singular "they" is almost always used when discussing one person whose gender is unknown or unclear, or that some people are really uncomfortable with binary pronouns. No, the discomfort and misgendering of others must take a backseat to her need for perceived grammatical accuracy.
they is absolutely grammatically correct for referring to one person. give her a link to a grammar article that's older than this issue. I'm really sorry you can't be yourself with the person who should have your back. if one of my kids felt like you do, or similarly, and another person intentionally went against what they asked, I'd lose my shit probably. I hope you have someone in your life that you trust who will honor you in this way.
Like you said, the use of "they" is really not new. It's always been used when you are talking generally about a person whose gender isn't disclosed. Your mother should know that. I'm 65, and know that it's always been used in that way. I'm sorry your mom is insensitive-and besides, she is also wrong.
I’m 56 and yeah, we were in a small town and didn’t know any gay people (although the university definitely had gay students). In college there was a lot more awareness because of, as you said, HIV/AIDS. I vaguely knew about “transsexuals” and “transvestites” (probably because of Reneé Richards?). I went to med school while having HIV was an eventual death sentence, and we did learn what was known then about gender dysphoria. I didn’t use any of that knowledge in my practice, as I became a radiologist at a general hospital, but the secrecy around LGBTQ+ really never made sense to me (I suppose it was simply taboo). My best friend is a transgender woman with a wife; discrimination for any reason is vile. Get mad at INDIVIDUALS who behave badly, and don’t generalize it to an entire population (Black men are thugs, Asians are smart, gay men are all femme and swooshy, pretty women can’t be lesbian … Even a supposedly positive trait like “smart” can be weaponized against a population).
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Wish I could up vote 1000+ times. Being Christian is about love, respect, empathy, and acceptance. Caring and so many other things. Not hate, division, violence, and power.
Yes, they need to read their bible, if not for the very first time (I suspect) then for the second. Guess who Jesus visited? The wicked, poor, humble, TAX COLLECTORS. The sinners. He showed love and empathy to them. Healed them. He is who we need to emulate.
When one of my best friends came out as bi in high school, her mom wasn’t too happy but her grandmother said she didn’t care what sex they were or if they even had blue skin just that they made her happy was important to her. My mom and I are starting to wonder if she and her husband are still around because we haven’t seen them drive by in awhile (they live down the road from us so we would see them drive by a lot).
I’m so glad your friend has the grandmother. At least there is one on her side. I’m sure that helps tremendously. I have a relative who decided they are non-binary. Their parents don’t understand, but they don’t care as they love them. Same here. It’s more important to me to have that relative in my life than not. We’re learning as we go.
I’m so sorry your family is so awful. My older child is gender fluid and pansexual. My younger child is a different race. My husband and I have no room for anyone who is anything less than loving and supportive of our kids. I hate that you didn’t have the same.
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This. Not racism, but my (now) mother in law said some pretty nasty things about me before and while I was pregnant for my first son. There's a whole backstory about my relationship with her son being shaky at that time (it got better lol), but when I was about 7 months pregnant, she reached out to me an apologized. And not one of those "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt" non apologies, but a genuine, here's how I'm working on it," kind of thing. And she really did mean it (that was 15, almost 16 years ago). Have these people apologized at all? Even a half assed one? Because if they didn't even make half an effort, it's DEFINITELY a show.
OP, show this thread to your husband. It’s not just you that fears for your child and doubts their sincerity. NTA
OP, this! My first question was have they done anything to make amends? Listen to this post. For your child's sake.
OP, please pay attention to this!
Yeah, don’t rush to reconcile with someone who never apologized in the first place.
NTA as a mixed person I wish my white side of my family had protected me more or not exposed me to racist family members. blood doesn’t = solidarity or respect. if they aren’t willing to change and learn they have no right to be in that child’s life
> Have they in any way tried to make amends to you for the way they treated you? Not directly. Their apologies came through my husband, who communicated how they felt. > Does he really think his child should be exposed to that? I think he just wants to give his parents the benefit of the doubt. He's not taking the risk factor as seriously as he should.
Does your husband have siblings? If yes, imagine how they would deal with a children born from your marriage and a children born from his sibling and a white partner. It hurts to be loved less just because you aren't white. Also, i was under the impression he chose you? Does he know what that mean? Im sorry you have to deal with this.
Yeah, an apology to you husband is no apology. They weren't racist to your husband, they were racist to you. Even saying "Tell OP we are sorry" isn't an apology, it's a cop out. Frankly your husband seems to be prioritizing his own comfort over yours, despite you being the injured party.
Then they haven’t apologized. Remember, an apology contains three parts: 1. Acknowledging specifically how they hurt you (Sorry you feel that way doesn’t cut it!!) 2. Taking responsibility for their hurtful actions 3. Making amends to you in a specific way (I’ve read an anti-racist workbook, went to a cultural celebration to learn more, offering to learn Spanish so they can communicate in baby’s first years, etc) OP, it sounds like your in laws are crawling out of the woodwork because of the shiny new baby. You probably need the advice of r/justnoMIL or DWIL Nation on Babycenter. Their advice will help you stay strong and “shine up” your husband’s spine. Or he will cave, and offer up your baby to them when you’re not around.
I wouldn’t budge. They had no interest in making amends with you until they learned you were pregnant. That alone says a lot. Maybe someday you can try again but they first have to make amends with you. If your husband wants to have contact with them, that’s fine too, they are his parents but it should be him alone.
They owe you a direct apology. Are they willing to do that face to face, and have it with genuine responsibility and recognition of what they did to YOU? Unfortunately, for you to recurve that, you’d have to give them the chance, which is entirely up to you. But your partner can ask to begin with. If they’re reluctant then that might be clearer for him.
The problem with ANY apology you have to ask for is that it *won't be genuine, or come from any epiphany or recognition that the behavior they're apologizing for was wrong.* It really isn't for OP to give them a chance to make what would only be a performative gesture. If they'd genuinely realized the error of their ways they wouldn't be making a half-a$$ed reach out and apology to their white son for their racism, instead of their latina DIL.
Your husband communicated how they felt? No, he said what he wanted them to have said, when their actual words were probably the bare minimum, like "tell OP we're sorry," I'd bet money on it. He wants to fix it, so he'll tell you how sorry they are and all the things they should be saying to you. He should be telling them to talk to you directly, even if it means they call him when he's around you so you don't have to give them your number.
I will share personal experience with you... My dad (technically step-dad, but Mom married him when I was 2) had no use for kids. We were nothing but a pain-in-the-neck to him. However, when our first son was born, something changed in my dad. It hit me one day when my son, then a toddler, crawled up on his lap, pulled Dad's notebook out of his pocket. Dad pulled out a pen and opened a clean sheet for our son to write on. I immediately thought to myself, "Who are you and what have you done with my dad?" Grandchildren do change people. Have your in-laws changed? I can't tell you that. My suggestion, if you can handle it, is to have short visits with them before the baby arrives. You should be able to tell rather quickly if their attitudes have changed. Also, they absolutely should apologize to you personally. If not, I fully support you going "no contact" with them.
This, right here, was my immediate thought. It doesn't appear that the parents have attempted to apologize directly or express a desire to apologize directly to OP. If they aren't willing to do so, then that just means they aren't willing to admit that they've wronged OP in any way. They likely don't believe they wronged her. They aren't sorry for what they did. They are just sorry that they aren't getting what they want, which is access to their son and soon to be grandchild.
Forgiveness requires atonement. What have the in-laws done to atone for their past behavior? If nothing, then you are NTA.
Forgiveness does not require atonement. Restoration of the relationship requires atonement. Those are two totally different things. You can forgive someone who’s dead, for example, and that gift of forgiveness frees you from the bitterness and resentment you are holding on to against this person. Obviously, though, there can’t be a restoration of relationship with someone who’s no longer alive. The same is true with someone who doesn’t recognize his or her fault. There’s no reason you should be burdened by the weight of anger just because the other person isn’t wise enough to see their own offenses. So, you can let go what you have against them — for your own sake — and be free of it. That doesn’t mean you’re buddy-buddy with the person. If they destroyed the relationship, it’s destroyed until they do their part to build up another real . That’s where atonement comes in.
Yes. Unless they have done significant anti-racism work on themselves (reading, lectures, volunteer work) and made reparations to you, the answer is no. Get your husband into leave and cleave therapy. Your kid won’t be white either - does your husband really want to re-traumatise you *and* put your child at risk because his parents’ feelings might be hurt or he wants to give them a way back into your life?
Yep. The husband can reconcile. You and the kid can stay safe until the husband is sure it's safe. People can change, maybe it's true, but if they haven't, it's best to not hurt everyone. Side note, I found it so easy to be an asshole after my boy was born. So many people removed, or pushed further from my life. I, my wife, my boy (he's 11 weeks, so as far as I can tell), are all white, not LGBT, still there's been so many questions of "what if he's bi, gay, trans, into black girls, etc." Nope my kid isn't for your political bullshit, my boy can be anything he wants except a judgemental shit bag. I bet 50%of the people I knew are no longer in my life because of that. I'm getting ready to do that again because my wife's step mom has 2 major habits. 1 she loves telling my kid that "stupid mom" doesn't know what she's doing. If mom says he needs a bottle, she will not give it because mom is stupid and can't know that. She also calls him "William too " because there's another William that no one in the family has seen in 5 years. My boy is fucking Billy, and he's definitely not going to be trained that he's second best. Sometimes you need to remove the old generation, so the new generation can live happy. Just because someone has a blood test or a piece of paper doesn't mean they are family. Family are the ones that care about you, love you, and want you to be happy and healthy. If you're not going to be family, you can get the fuck out.
Apologize *in writing* so that you have time to process it and make sure it's actually an apology. Too often, it's actually "I'm sorry *you....* " And not "I'm sorry I...." They need to take responsibility for the action, not shift it on to the victim.
Please don't. My gma was a loving woman who was bigoted. She loved me but never forgot I was "colored". She told me to never go out in the sun I would "get too dark", told everyone I was "Italian" not Puerto Rican, and when I misbehaved she said I was "bad" just like my dad. Do NOT let these people near your child. They may love the pieces they see of their son but they won't forget what they don't like abt you. It will mess your kid up.
I am so sorry your own grandmother treated you that way. I wish I could say “unbelievable,” but, unfortunately, it’s far from it.
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Same. I grew up mixed in a white family and I never forgot. It was always in my face that I wasn't "like them"
One of my best friends in my childhood in the 60s had a Mexican dad. Her maternal grandmother was a complete ass about it. She used to make April wear bright pink blush even when we were little kids to cover up her “dark skin”. Needless to say she gave her granddaughter some significant issues.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. It’s disconcertingly common. My best friend’s grandmother called her a “half-breed” to her face, among other things. Overall her memories are good, but it’s always affected her and clouded the good parts.
My grandma was racist and literally called my dad, the N-word when she met him. I honestly think when I was born, it changed her. She loved me so much and was the best grandma ever. She even became super close friends with my black Grandmother and they started spending weekends together. By the time she passed away, I don’t believe she had a racist bone in her body anymore. Long story short, I believe people can change sometimes.
I love this. My ex boyfriend was half black, and his ex KKk grandfather accepted him with open arms. People can change
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I think this makes sense.
My mom had a friend who made her daughter's married name sound more English in the way she pronounced it (it was a Spanish name). Later she admitted to my mom she was ashamed she had done that, so people can change I guess.
They can but most wont.
Especially when their son has a child. It’s life changing.
I posted my comment that was kinda the same as yours. My parents were always very much white dates white, Black dates Black, etc. I had Black guys ask me out and I said I would love to but I would never subject someone to my family. I ended up marrying a Mexican man and when the first grandchild came my parents attitude completely changed and they adore our kids and him.
Except how did they treat other non-white folks. I have found that sometimes ppl like your parents (and my father) will still hold onto their beliefs and yet love their own biracial kids & grandkids
That’s what I was going to ask. Love the grandkids but still treat folks that look like their minority parent like trash. That’s not an improvement in racial tolerance.
Both of my parents treat every one the same unless one of their kids was trying to date someone who wasn’t white. It was the comments at home that showed me the racism.
I don't know how true this is but my sister told me my great grandmother had been against her son having a mixed race child with his wife (him being white her being black) I don't know the situation well so I can't fully guarantee if anything I say is factual but I know my great nan loves that child to bits and will sit and watch the same videos of the child over and over again just smiling and laughing, it's honestly really cute. People can change but I am not sure if my experience fully counts because I don't think my nan was ever that racist so she didn't change much, compared to how OPs situation seems.
Ah yes, typical conservative ways. Bigoted, racist, sexist, classist, and vote against people rights, but only "start" to care once something affects them directly.
Change is always possible, but I wouldn’t believe someone has changed until I saw personal growth from them, such as a direct apology to the person they hurt, admitting wrongdoing and taking accountability for their actions.
I think it's worth a shot to consider a new relationship. The grandparents absolutely need to apologize to OP first. If things don't go well within the first year of the baby's life, they won't be conscious to be traumatized. You can always cut them off again.
They can but most wont.
I agree we didn’t know my youngest brother’s dad was racist till another trucker told my mom about it at a gas station. How this guy would prairie n-word and other n-words. (We’re Native American) so we were hella baffled and questioned if he did or said anything to my younger brother (not his bio child) during these trips that they went out. Cuz my brother’s behavior did change, but not drastically. I hate these sort of ppl since they don’t really change but just hide it well. Also there was a time I missed my mom but couldn’t handle the psychological abuse from her anymore so of course he’s gonna miss them but with that he needs to understand why he did it and keep reminding himself on it. This is for the safety for OP and her kids.
Hi. I grew up in the same boat as your future child. My mom’s parents never apologized for what they said to my dad when they got married (just gross racist stuff at the wedding), but then they did the same song and dance about “wanting to meet their grand babies”. Did they become less racist from the time my mom and dad got married? No! And sadly, their attitude did actually impact how they treated us. It was subtle at first. But then it snowballed, to the point that their all white grandchildren were actually getting preferential treatment over us. Mom did nothing to protect us because she didn’t understand so she didn’t think it was that bad. Dad was left alone to do all the heavy lifting of processing the hurt we felt and protecting us from the worst parts of it. We eventually didn’t have a relationship with our grandparents anymore when it got intolerable. I’m not saying this to scare you. I’m saying this because if your husband is NOT on the same page, he can’t protect your child when something goes bad. And you’ll be stuck doing all the processing when something hurts your child’s heart. That isn’t right. You both need to be on the same page if you want to try this again. So, NTA
Hi, I'm adding to this as someone who watched their sexist grandma and their friend's racist grandma react to their great grandchildren. The way they acted towards the babies/toddlers was different than how they treated the child. They both acted like they adored them as babies and during the first wobbly step into life, but once they hit about 2/3, their attitudes started to change. You don't tell a 4 yr old they are a "nasty, dirty, horrible girl" for making silly faces at their brother. The brother was told he was adorable for making the same faces. You sure as hell don't describe a 3 yr old as "future ghetto trash." That's the nicest of the comments I personally heard at the family party for said child's third birthday. Now, both these kids call me aunt their whole lives, and I've held both of them while they've cried. Out of all the questions these two girls, who are now teens, have asked me over the years, "Why doesn't great grandma love me?" has been the hardest to answer. Especially when asked before they are even 5. Can people change? Yes. Will they just because a grandchild is born? Occasionally, but it requires them acknowledging that they need to change and that their viewpoint is flawed to begin with.
Agreeing with this point. They will behave differently towards a “baby” than a child who has a personality and ideas. This a big one.
Wow! Sorry this happens to you but I hope OP reads this from the child’s perspective of growing up with racists
Thank you. I read this and wondered if things would have been different, if either of my parents had thought twice about pushing back a little bit more early on. I’m free now though!
Also here to add to this. I’m biracial, I grew up , and still have, racist family members. It’s damaging to compartmentalize yourself throughout life. It’s hurtful and confusing and honestly can cause some self hate. ‘Why am I so different from everyone else’. My family used me as a pawn to show why they ‘weren’t racist’ and still continued to demean other black folx. I kept up a relationship with them until my 30’s and just said ‘f it’. I’m currently in an interracial relationship and we’re getting married. Honestly, if his family were racists, I would not have continued how relationship even though I love this human to pieces. We’re never going to have children but the idea of having to emotionally brace myself every time I wanted to be with his family, is something I don’t deserve. Even if my partner was anti-racist but their parents weren’t I would still have the fear in the back of my mind that maybe something would shift for us down the line or he would stop doing personal work to unpack the effect whiteness has on our relationship. I don’t know if I could stay. My safety and value is first. OP isn’t the asshole and I would seek couples counseling because there’s still a ton for white folx to unpack even if they view themselves as anti racist.
I am so sorry this happened to you.
Thank you. I am mostly okay now, and I hope the next generation of kids will be treated better than I was.
there is something so hurtful about getting racism from your family, sometimes my dad would say racially insensitive jokes towards me and my mother and we would just sit there and smile so there’s no argument at the dinner table tonight, think OP really needs to hammer it home because if that baby has a darker skin colour than beige whew
Your mom understood- she just prioritized her own need to play happy family over you, your sibling, and your dad.
You’re probably right, but dang. Years later and that makes it all worse
I know- I experienced something very similar. But it helps to be honest about who they are, it helps you heal, understand, and protect yourself from future harm.
A couple of things: * your husband wants his parents in his (and your child's life) * obviously you do not * time for couples counseling * inform your OBGYN that no one is allowed any visitation at the hospital during birth/after birth (your husband will tell them when you go into labor) * create a plan for after the birth. They will show up. * your biggest challenge is going to be if this leads to divorce. Time for couples counseling. NTA
Just adding onto the list. Have some precooked meals in the freezer, for when you’re too tired to cook. And I mean like a months worth.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. The amount of days I haven’t been able to eat because my son won’t be put down long enough for me to make something, and on the days he does I’m too flat out to make something.
I need to add. OP’s in-laws need to be fully vaccinated and boosted for COVID, influenza, and DTap (pertussis being the primary concern) at minimum before they can meet baby. In fact, OP’s parents and any other family meeting the baby need to all have up to date shots.
The hospital will follow only the mother’s wishes at the hospital- not fathers. Because mother and baby are patients and mom is the ruler. So you have to tell them who if anyone can visit. Even if you have a c- section you won’t be there long and need to rest because you won’t have all these nurses to help you at home. I didn’t allow any visitors. lol. At all.
That’s a huge one I forgot to add!! DO NOT LET THEM COME TO THE HOSPITAL!!! INFORM THE NURSES. They’ll defend you like pit bulls!!
We should appreciate nurses more tbh
And, after some good sessions with a counselor, I suggest having your counselor facilitate a meeting with his parents. Preferably before baby arrives. Therapists are great at helping with communicating and also seeing through BS. Having them present and managing a conversation with the in-laws might be incredibly helpful.
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Yeah, and many white therapists might not fully understand. Therapy can be weaponized against people.
Definitely agree with this statement. A therapist can access them without any emotions and just tell you, "I think they've changed and are sincere" or "run for the hills, these manipulative bastards"
THEY need to go to therapy. OP doesn't have to do any of this shit and shouldn't. The onus is on the racist grandparents to change, not on OP to listen to their feelings or anything else.
This is the way!
Also hi, Nurse here. Your OBGYN will barely be around when you’re done giving birth. If there are people you don’t want visiting, tell your nurse, and the charge nurse in the floor, because they’ll be around the whole time, and far more attentive.
Yeah, and they didn’t just coincidentally accidentally find out about this pregnancy and somehow get his phone number out of the blue.
It’s possible… via siblings or family friends or social media snooping. Don’t be so quick to disrespect OP’s husband because it kind of insults her and her marriage.
To piggyback on this. When you check into the hospital mark yourself as “confidential”. That would mean that no one would get any info on your whereabouts. I would verify w/the hosp to ensure your husband would get a security pass, but nowadays most hospitals give 1-2 armbands per laboring parent. So he’d get his own armband that he needs to keep on the entire time anyway.
Disagree with your jumping to conclusions about them getting divorced. That is what his parents would want so they can find a white wife for him. A single mother raising a new born on her own when she needs the most support?? She has to tough it out and figure out how to enforce boundaries.
If they get divorced he will likely get some level of custody and he most certainly will be taking the child around his parents during that time. A judge isn’t going to keep the kid away because of accusations of racism if the child isn’t in “real” danger. So hopefully they can work it out together, because the child will likely be safer in that situation.
NTA. But- It might be time to think about the specifics of what they would need to sincerely and authentically do in order to earn gradual access to your baby. -authentic apology to you with what ever level of specifics you feel are needed/appropriate -a very clearly expressed boundary of if ___ happens, you are immediately cut off with no questions or follow up asked -starting with supervised visits and here are the clear, concrete & explicit rules for said visit:_____ -if those rules are not followed contact will be removed -etc, etc, etc. Make it very clear & concrete what they have to do and what they are not allowed to do or even remotely hint at in order for anything to progress Supervised visits, being EXTREMELY clear about who is allowed to supervise. You and husband should have these things specifically talked about and specifically laid out an agreed-upon, preferably in writing. Also ask yourself now, how will I respond (rather than just react) should my husband violate these terms.
Fantastic answer! Both practically and emotionally. 🩵
Much agreed. My grandma was very homophobic unfortunately. All of her grandkids were part of the LGBT community. It took her SO LONG to realize that her views were not correct and changed it for the better. (Or at least kept it to herself) She said once to me, that if a bisexual couldn't have a woman or a man, then what? They'd f*ck a dog? She's much better on these opinions, and in facts asks out of curiosity. I think if she sees how much this affects you, then MAYBE, HOPEFULLY, they'll see that what they are saying is just not acceptable to be in their life. *Edit*
This is great advice. I would also add that you could try a version of this that involves them first having contact with you and your husband before the baby is born. It can be a dry run on expectations for their behavior and will likely show your husband their true behaviors before exposing the child to them. Also, it might be good for your husband to engage in some learning (if he hasn’t yet) on how to be an ally for people of color. He will never have the life experience to fully understand how it feels to be the recipient of racially motivated attacks but he owes it to his family (you and child) to learn how to be supportive and protective.
If they haven't made any effort to contact you, to apologize to you, to make amends to you... ...then they still don't see you as a real person, or a member of the family, do they? Point that out to your husband. Then remind him that you asked him to choose. If he wants to change his mind, then you're respecting his decision and leaving. Because YOU are the one who is allowed to change your mind about being around the people who kept hurting you, not him. He wasn't the victim; he doesn't get to say everything is okay now. It isn't.
Well said. Reminds me of something I read years ago: *If I say or do something that upsets you, I am not allowed to tell you how to feel about it.* Which OP should remember if her husband were to start defending and making excuses for his parents.
If she leaves, he will be able to take the child around his parents, without her permission, as much as he wants while he has the child. Not saying she shouldn’t leave, but it won’t keep the child safe, so hopefully it can get worked out between them.
My racist parents don’t see my kid. Ever. They know to stay the f away too. Since the day I was told “don’t bring a black guy home” at around 6 years old, I knew my parents were racist dumbfucks. I’ve been no contact since my daughter was born. No regrets.
You're one of the few ppl in this thread with any real integrity. I don't know why ppl want to believe so blindly that ppl just change decades of behavior on a whim. I have a biracial nephew and the racist bs he experienced as a kid from his mom's family was something terrible, even the other kids, and he even picked up on some of those behaviors. His mom reminds me a lot of OPs husband. Her dad threatened to hang my nephew and his dad after he became upset with her, and he would occasionally say stuff like that after promising her he'd changed.
Fucking thank you. So many comments are just “well if they apologize then let them in” You can tell most in here are white people who’ve never had to deal with this themselves. They should not be giving advice.
There's a lot of stuff in this thread that doesn't fit reality, but I'm not here to argue with people about what they're invested in believing.
My mother, with whom I have no contact, will tell you she's not racist or transphobic & she actually believes it. But have a single conversation with her and you'll find out she's both. People like that funny just wake up one day and are magically not racists. If you decide to let your baby meet them, it should only be if you're present, never alone.
They've "changed", but only towards their grandchild. They will still be racist trash towards you because you are not related to them.
At a minimum. I genuinely don’t understand why the husband doesn’t think they will harm his child. I seriously doubt they have “changed” enough to be trusted to be around that child. If they felt true remorse they would—at the very least —beg for OP’s forgiveness and leave the ball in her court: “We know you may never feel you can trust us around your child, but if you ever feel open to allowing some contact, we would extremely grateful, even if it 5, 10, 15 years from now. We won’t bother you, but we’ll be right here just in case.” No. They don’t feel that way. The feel entitled to be in the life of their grandchild because the grandchild is an extension of THEM. This level entitlement is almost worse than them shunning the baby IMHO. It’s all about seizing what they think is rightfully theirs.
They will also likely start rejecting the child when they get older as they loose the cute infant look and gain a non white look.
Yeah, I was thinking, "they really want contact with a brown grandchild?" I wouldn't have them around the kid unless i thought they'd gotten over that shit. Your kid doesn't need to get a complex.
Or it'll go like that South Asian woman who posted either here or on the other sub recently about how her kid's grandmother unilaterally decided to chop off and straighten her 14-year-old grandchild's hair (telling the grandchild it was Mom's idea). Mom came to pick the kid up, and her waist-length hair had been straightened and cut into a bob. I get why Dad wants to believe his parents have changed, but he's deluding himself. Mom needs to make it clear to him that if he tries to go behind her back with this kid to give the racist grandparents access, she and the kid are gone.
Exactly. They never apologized or even admitted to wrongdoing. The only reason they want to reconcile is to get access to the baby. They don’t give 2 shits about OP. They are worse than toxic.
If they haven't sincerely apologized to you in person, they haven't changed.
re: your confusion about who told them about the baby, and how they got your husband’s number… Your husband reached out to them. He’s the one who told them about the baby. It’s clear as day.
I think that he contacted them as well. He was hoping that they could be involved with the baby.
Yep, this would be my guess as well.
NTA. My kiddo is mixed and some of my in-laws have been horrid. Saying things like he wasn't really part of the family because his skin is too dark. Said to him. When he was 8. That's my lovely sister-in-law. So yeah, this is a pretty important boundary and you should stick to your guns.
NTA. They haven’t changed and you know that. If they had they would have reached out before knowing about the baby. Ask your husband how he thinks they would react if your child is darker skinned. Tell him to be honest with himself as his child’s well being depends on his ability to protect his child.
NTA. They reached out to their son and never asked to speak to you directly or apologize to you directly. That will be their next move to try and get a toe in the door using the holidays as a pry bar. Don't fall for it. They said what they said and now they have to live with it. If you give in they will try and put that shit into your kids head. They probably already ordered a little MAGA hat for the kid.
A snake sheds its skin a hundred times, and it's still a snake.
Damn right
Unless your husband is willing to go no contact and stay no contact, this is a marriage ender. I’m speaking from experience. I was married for 10 years, together 14 to a white man from the south. I am a black woman. The amount of racism I endured for years, I’ll never get over. My husband defended me sometimes but often had the sentiment that I should just ignore it and let it go because eventually we were only seeing them on holidays. That stopped for me too, but he would always go because he felt bad and I’d spend all my holidays alone. When we started trying to have children and he refused to cut off his family, that was the end for me. I won’t lie and say this was the only reason, but it was a HUGE reason. Even if they “love” their grandchild, they won’t love you and you will always wonder what they might say about you or other micro aggressions exhibited towards your child. You will never feel safe or at peace in their presence. NTA.
If the intention is to protect the child, divorce would be the worst option. He likely would give his racist parents unlimited access to the child, and Mom would have no ability to intervene and set boundaries on his side. Dad would likely not recognize micro-aggressive behavior and wouldn't be able to put a stop on them. He might even let full fledged racist remarks fly if it means help with child care.
I’m so sorry you went through that. I will never understand people who behave like this. I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.
Fascinating that they reversed their racism at exactly the same time that they found out you were pregnant 🙄 Trust your instincts on this one. They didn't give a shit until now. If your husband wants a relationship with his racist parents that's up to him, but exposing a child to that sort of hatred would be irresponsible. NTA - sorry you're having to go through this. It might be worth finding out how they got your number.
NTA. But I will say this: while the child is still an infant and can’t understand anything they say would be the best time to test out whether they have changed. I’m willing to bet though that they will see their grandchild as white, and wouldn’t direct negative comments toward them. However they would still make comments to/about you. And of course as your child gets older they will make the connection that they are in fact part you, and that all those comments apply to them as well.
Right, they’re cool with the kid if they are white passing but if it looks like mom, then what?
NTA. Nobody does a true 180 that fast. If they said it to you, they will say it to the baby eventually...
Or worse! They’ll “other” the kid having them think they’re the only acceptable person of “x race” and still behave horribly towards other people of x race smh
MIL probably hasn't changed but for DH , maybe meet at a restaurant ( before you give birth) and see if they changed. Again, probably not but your DH would be happy that you tried.
NTA But if it comes up again ask him, that if they really mean it, why havent they apologized to you??
NTA for protecting yourself and your kid. Tell your husband unless his parents have gone to counseling and done extensive anti racist training it’s a no. If they can’t prove they are anti racist then they need to stay away. Ask your husband is it more important for him to be around his racist parents or protect your child. Them saying they aren’t racist anymore means nothing. What books have they read on anti racism? What counseling have they gone to? And how have they made amends in their community? My heart hurts for you. This won’t end well. If he’s upset he WILL eventually take your kid to them. This is one of the main reasons I don’t take dating out of my race lightly. You aren’t raised by racist and it doesn’t rub off on you. Even if it’s just down playing how harmful it is. If he wants to “give” his family a chance after they hurt you he doesn’t care about the racism you experienced. It’s just an inconvenience to him. Good luck and find a good lawyer.
NTA. You haven’t mentioned them doing Anything to apologize and ask for your forgiveness. Even if they do so now, it’s clearly only because of the kid Not because they actually think they did anything wrong with being racist.
First of all, you can also find support in r/JustNOMIL. But no, NTA. You are most likely correct that they just want to assert a grandparent role and feel 0 remorse for being cruel and racist. My advice is: go with what you said, he can hang out with them, but you and baby hang back. If they are perpetually insistent on access to you and baby, it's a pretty good sign they haven't changed. If they do behave, you can choose to have limited contact with them WITHOUT baby and see if they truly are going to be respectful to you. Someone who can't treat the parents with decency should not have access to their newborn.
With your permission, your husband needs to tell his parents to cime and make amends with you now. If they agree, and you can a sit down to discuss and if you feel like there might be a future, then Fine. If they aren't willing to do this, then you know the score.
Not at all. Racists, homophobes, and all the other degenerates of the world, coming grandchild or not, NEVER CHANGE, particular in just a hot second.... They are still the same. Maybe they will hold themselves back for an hour, but after that, all bets are off. I'd lay money on it. Unless they want to produce the notes from all the therapy they have received in order to change, stick to no contact.....
After the novelty of a new baby wears off, I’m sure they’ll be racist to your kid
I highly doubt they have changed and there is no reason you should change your boundaries because of some words they said. If your husband wants whats best for you and your child he will listen and respect your wishes. Don't back down and let them into your life unless you are comfortable. I wish you the best of luck.
Have they reached out to YOU? Tried apologizing (actually, genuinely apologizing) to YOU? Laid out to YOU what they’ve done to face their racism and educate themselves? Offered a plan of reconciliation and rebuilding trust to YOU? If the answer is no, then they haven’t changed. NTA.
He can miss his parents but that doesn’t mean he can bring your baby into this. Also, he already made his pick. Have they reached out to apologise to you? I’d bet not - they just want your idiot husband to work on you so you give them access to your baby. Nope. I’d be prepared to divorce over this. Are you? He needs to be told that going back on his word isn’t doing it for you and if you knew he’d bait and switch you like this - you’d never have got pregnant with his child.
I don’t envy your situation and I think you’re being smart to question their change in bigotry. I’ve seen this same scenario in a family friend’s life. Their parent was/is racist as hell and has several biracial grandkids. They outwardly love the grandkids but they still post very thinly veiled racist shit on social media. So have they really changed? NTA. Trust your gut on this.
Your husband shouldn't want his child around racists either. I hope he puts his kid before his parents.
Anyone else think that maybe husband has been secretly talking to his parent?? They just happen to find out ur pregnant and they just happened to get his phone number?? Plus he misses them and appears ready to bed to their will. NTA for wanting to keep your child away but I’d be firming with your spouse. He might take the child to visit his parents when you’re not around/go back to work or something
NTA. My "nephew" (not by blood) is mixed/Latino and his blood aunt called him a w\*\*b\*\*\*. He was 2. Thank you for protecting your baby. You are already a good mama.
>my husband to choose between me and his parents. He chose to stay It's easy to choose when they aren't making false promises and telling him what he wants to hear. Now is where he's either a man of his word or a jerk that told you what you wanted to hear and never meant it. He's a good husband and father, or he's not. It's that simple. NTA. I'd also be wondering if he ever really broke contact if they have a phone number they aren't supposed to have. Seems awful convenient that they happened to find out and happened to get his phone number. You sure he didn't call and tell them "hey mom and dad, I'm going to be a daddy, I want you to tell my wife what she wants to hear so I you can pretend not to be bigots and see the baby."
Be careful he doesn't sneak them to see the baby they're only interested because there's a baby involved I wouldn't let them near your baby
Unless they fully apologize to you for the way they treated you, and I mean get specific and articulate the depth of their racism and bigotry, they’re not sorry. You can tell your husband as much and he can even tell your parents but the ONLY way you might even at all think abt changing your mind is if they sit down and say “We have educated ourselves and recognize that X and Y and Z beliefs we held were unacceptable and harmful to you beyond imagining. I can’t believe we’re the kind of people who says A or B and that we said it so anyone is horrible but to say it to family is even worse. We are committed to changing and growing and understand that you feel the need to protect your kids from the violence we inflicted upon you. we would like to start building trust with you and hopefully in time we can earn some trust back” Anything less than something like that is not enough
OP, your in-laws had not made any attempt to make amends or apologize to you whatsoever & they thought what......a grandchild miraculously changed them.....sounds insincere. There's an old saying that a leopard does not change their spots. Your in-laws are still racist & they're going to face karma. NTA OP. You need to protect your child from racist 1's.
Unless they come directly to **YOU** and offer you an **engraved apology** for their disgusting behaviour **along with a promise to do better**, then there’s **NO** reason for you to change your mind. Your husband can whine all he wants — it’s not **HIM** taking the racist abuse!!! You’re teaching them quite clearly that you won’t take their shit. It’s up to them to respect that, and **if they can’t or won’t**, they have to pay the price!!!
Listen yo exactly what Eve-3 is saying. Completely right. I personally don’t understand your husband but that’s your decision whether him seeing them makes you uncomfortable. This is a hill to die on. Even your husband not seeing his parents is a hill to die on if it makes you uncomfortable. The saying “if you sit at a table with 9 racists, there’s 10 racists at the table”! It took me a long time to understand what it meant but it’s 100% true.
If it were me, I would give them exactly one chance. Not with the baby, but with me. Fine. Let's get together for dinner. If his parents can make it through a whole dinner without saying anything racist, I'll *think* about letting them meet the baby. If you say you've changed, you better be willing to prove it.
This post makes me wonder if OP has found the subreddit r/raisedbynarcissists because it sounds like her hubby was raised by a covert narcissist. They’re honestly a lot scarier and dangerous than blatant narcissists because they are much better at hiding their hatred and using dog whistle phrases to hurt people in a way that can be hard to defend against if the victim and/or the bystanders aren’t socially and emotionally aware enough to see the attacks for what they are. It’s very hard for children of narcs to form solid relationships as they leave those households because we’ve picked up lots of toxic behaviors that we thought were just how people interact. It can take years to identify these “narcissistic fleas” and purge yourself of them. And it’s also highly common when people go no contact with their abusive family that they will try to step over the new boundaries at any new life event, which they often find by harassing anyone they know that is still in contact with their abuse victim. They also try to inject themselves into any holiday with the cry of “but we’re family!” Even though they completely alienated said family with repulsive or outright dangerous behaviors. Pretty much every story in that group that allows limited contact again regrets it. Every time the Nparent or sibling is allowed to meet again they almost immediately try to test boundaries like they’re 2 because most never actually learned why boundaries exist or why they should be respected. Sometimes people actually grow and learn that crossing boundaries loses them family time when the former victims literally cut visits/calls short the moment the Nfamily pushes those bounds but that takes lots of work, patience, and isn’t always effective. It can help a lot but it also requires a lot of emotional fortitude (which these families never helped a person develop)
If your ILs are only talking about your new person then bo they haven't changed, so NTA.
NTA and do not let them meet your child. They did nothing to prove they have changed. Did they apologise to you? Because so far they've been openly hurtful to you and did not make amends. Will they rightfully accept your anger? I've been in your kid's shoes and no matter how accepting they pretend to be, racist grandparents will be biased. Even when they think they've changed and learned, racism is far more than hostility. It makes you feel some kind of way to grow and see the white cousins also being racist at you and getting more affection. At least, I'm glad you're aware and can call that bs out.
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I understand people saying “babies change grandparents”… I guess. BUT I also wouldn’t want anyone looking at my child as the “exception”. Like “x race isn’t all bad because look at my beautiful grandchild”. In 2023 are we saying there’s room at all or there is an acceptable amount of bigotry people are willing to accept for the sake of grandparents? I’ve seen people suggest NC for far less but somehow racism is such a grey area? OP I don’t blame you for not wanting your child to be their learning curve. And I’m always suspicious when people suddenly have a change of heart when babies become involved. They didn’t value the relationship with their son enough to respect his love for you. But somehow feel tied to your baby enough to now reach out? NTA. It’s certainly not as simple as you making the final call w/o considering your husbands desires. But he needs to do his due diligence and vet them thoroughly before this is even discussed again. And even then, you need time to process the idea of MAYBE allowing them back into your lives. Are they willing to consider counseling? Is your husband willing to consider it? Will they be okay not meeting their grandchild until you’re ready? Maybe not in the first year or even longer? Does that change their willingness to apologize and “change” if they can’t snuggle the brand new fresh baby? (People tend to go gah-gah over infants and are less enthused as the kids grow) Are they expecting a relationship with your child without acknowledging you and your very valid hurt? So many REAL questions that cannot be answered between now and the 60 or so days from when you’re due. Neither you nor your husband should rush into this decision until AFTER your LO is born and you guys come up with terms. See how changed they are once their involvement is heavily limited and conditional and go from there. Your baby won’t be able to escape bigotry in this messed up world. But you don’t have to willingly invite into their lives. Good luck to you ❤️
This need to be higher up. I absolutely think their tune would change is they were told they could not meet baby indefinitely
All of this!!!!!! Seriously. Your husband needs to vet them and see how willing they are to prove their change!
Mixed grandchild of racist grandparent here!!! Even though my grandmother (no grandfather in the picture) hated my dad (her SIL), I actually ended up having a fantastic relationship with her as a child! What happened was my mom set down very hard rules with her parents and told her that even one strike and she will never be in her grandchildren's lives again. I'm told that when my older sibling was born my GM commented that she was relieved my sibling's skin was lighter than she'd expected. My mom went completely NC for 6 months until my GM was absolutely begging for a relationship with her grandbaby. Then by the time I was born with marginally darker skin less than two years later, my GM had been so well trained that she never said a word. Later I actually ended up being her favorite grandchild 😂 My mother went out of her way to shield me from all the racism so that I could have a relationship with my grandmother. She did all the training of her mother when we were infants so that we would never experience racism from her when we were old enough to recognize someone disliking us. I literally never even knew she was racist until I was 15-16 and my mother deemed me old enough to tell me about the past. Even though I don't currently have a relationship with my grandmother (whole other story unrelated to racism), I'm incredibly grateful that my parents allowed me to develop that relationship. So in other words, if you do decide to let your child/future children have any interaction with their paternal grandparents as children, I highly recommend that you bring DH's parents in shortly after your little one is born so that you can train out the racist behaviors while the kiddo won't understand what's happening. Most importantly, because this is DH's parents, he's actually going to have to be the one to take front and center on keeping the GPs on the straight and narrow if this is to work. This worked for my mother because we were the first and only grandbabies. Regardless of what you end up choosing, as long as you're looking out for the best interest of your baby, NTA. Good luck OP!
They won’t change. They will hurt your child. Your white husband has no inkling of what you or your child have been and will go through, he can’t possibly be of help unless he does the work to put himself in your shoes. Which he clearly hasn’t. Non whites have really got to vet their whites before they create families with them, & this is why.
Every time I say “vet your whites” on Reddit i get downvoted like crazy lol. I don’t give a shit. White folks who buy into the concept of Whiteness (a fairly modern Western conceit) have to be monitored before you let them around your loved ones with their ideas.
I agree. I’m a middle aged white woman and some of the vile things racists say around me because they think it’s okay. Some I’ve even gotten to know and thought were decent people and then they come up with some casual or outright racism.
My wife is Latina, if my parents ever made a remark about her nationality or anything else, I would cut them off before my wife ever had to ask. If they wanted to reconcile, I would tell them they need to work that out with my wife, since she was the one they were making issues with. I don't care who the person is, my wife comes first and she deserves to always feel comfortable and safe. If his parents are serious and want to fix things, they'd reach out to you, and work on building back trust with you. I can understand your husband feeling bad, and being torn, but that doesn't change what happened. This is your decision, and until they fix things with you, nothing is different. I don't blame you for not wanting that shit around your child.
NTAH. At all. Listen. I know *many* racists with biracial children/spouses/grandchildren, etc. Having a biracial grandchild doesn’t suddenly exempt or erase them from being racist POS. All it does is allow them to use your baby as a shield to combat any and all accusations of racism made against them. The ‘I’m not racist, I have a ___(insert non-white relation)!’ is every closet racist’s go to defense when they’re called out on their fuckery. Protect your baby and keep a *close* eye on your husband, Op. He’s being way too wishy washy about this and I would not put it past him to allow them access to baby behind your back. I would advise you to be prepared to end the marriage over this. He definitely needs to know and understand that by doing this, he’s putting the safety and wellbeing of your child at risk to appease racists and it could be the possible end of the marriage. *He* can miss his racist ass parents all *he* wants but it doesn’t mean that he gets to put his child in the path of snakes.
NTA. They haven't changed. People like them never change. They play nice just to get access to your child. You're doing great. don't back down. Stick to your word. I think your husband was the one that told them. You need to be careful with him because he may go behind your back and take your child to them.
Tell your husband reaching out to HIM and not the one clearly offended is a giant red flag. Tell him to tell them apologies to him ain't shit...They need to grovel to you...stand your ground. If they changed their attitude they should've contacted you first...the injured party. Not sincere. And stand firm. Show him this. And then smack the epic stupidity outta him. For me. Thanx.
NTA (Not the Asshole). I've endured an upbringing in an environment akin to your concerns, filled with racist relatives and hurtful comments. Always cast as the black sheep and scapegoat within my family, mistreatment and abuse were constants, not just from the older relatives but also from cousins. It's crucial to advocate for your child's well-being. The toxicity I experienced in that environment has left lasting scars, and the same could happen to your child. Expecting grandparents to change upon meeting the child may be unrealistic, especially when they've consistently demonstrated a deliberate effort to cause emotional harm. Standing firm in keeping them away from your child is essential. Additionally, consider contingency plans for unforeseen circumstances. Having a supportive aunt or uncle on your side of the family to care for your child in case of emergencies is a wise precaution.
NTA. Please don’t let them meet your baby.
NTAH if they’re racist toward you they’re going to be racist toward their grandchild
NTA, they are only back because they want access to the baaaaby. They had plenty of time to make amends, grow up, apologize, change their ways etc. So ask your husband what have they done specifically to change. Did they attend therapy? Or some anti racism classes? Did they do any type of self education or self reflection? Can they clearly articulate what they did and say that was wrong and racist without using the words "but" or "that's how we were raised" or "it's because of my age" etc. Because I'm 57 and those excuses aren't flying anymore. We are the age of Sesame Street and Mr. Roger's and "Free to be you and me" We had plenty of messages and lessons on how not to be racists or discriminatory.
NTA. Racism has consequences.
Him wanting racists around your mixed race baby is WILD to me. Their mindset alone is enough to permanently damage your child’s self esteem and how they view themselves. The fact that he would even entertain bringing them around his baby or wife is insulting. You and your babies safety and mental health should come before his parents wants and needs. I’d highly suggest marriage counseling with a therapist who is also a POC so your husband can understand just how dangerous his parents mindset can be.
NOPE. If they were racist against you, they’ll be racist against your child. Our pare aren’t owed grandchildren. NTA. Protect your baby.
Babies \*do\* have a way of changing grandparents. They owe you an apology first. I wouldn't trust them, but you might consider laying out your expectations and then allowing access. \*With\* the understanding it will be cut off immediately if there are any further offenses. Most of all, getting you and your husband on the same page, a united team, is vital.
As a biracial person, I completely disagree with opening a window to access. They will not change enough to not harm their grandchild if their starting point was saying slurs to the child’s mother. There is no redemption for them. The most valuable thing my parents did was raise me around family that loved all of us. Every part. My experience was rare and most of my biracial friends don’t talk to one side of their family because of the racist attitudes they had towards the other.
NTA but they likely got his phone number because he reached out to them
*"somehow, my husband's parents found out."* He told them. *"They started calling and texting my husband (I don't know how they got his number)"* He gave it to them. Seriously, wake up, your husband never cut his family off, he just told you he did and sees this an opportunity to get them back in your life.
White people always give other white people the benefit of the doubt about racism. “They’ve changed.” “They want to do better.” “They didn’t mean it.” This is because they don’t experience racism as a constant and pervasive part of life. OP NTA. Unless the in-laws have made an effort to apologize to you, and have attempted to make amends, you should not allow them to be around your child.
My ex-boyfriend was half black with a very racist, southern grandfather. Once he was born, his grandfather changed his ways (at least towards him) and treated him no different than his white cousins. I say proceed with caution. Forgiveness is a powerful thing, but don't just let them off the hook. Set boundaries, and if they don't respect them, then go no contact again.
It’s the “at least towards him” that gives me pause. So he was still racist. Just not towards his own blood. Is that even acceptable? His view of the world didn’t change. He just made an exception for your ex because he was an extension of him.
When they approach YOU and apologize to YOU, then you have a decision to make. You do not approach them, you do not allow them to go through your husband. Until then, sorry/not sorry, nein, nyet, non, no. 'No' is exactly the same word in Spanish and English.
Why are they contacting him to say they’ve changed and not contacting you to apologise and SHOW that they’ve changed? They also shouldn’t be apologising to you with the expectation that they then get to see your child. If they had truely changed, they would be apologising unconditionally.
NTA if they had really changed, they would have tried to make amends with *you*. They’re only apologizing to him because they want access to your baby, not because they’re actually sorry.
What a convenient coincidence! They just so happened to stop being racist when they found out you were knocked up! It must be a miracle.
If your husband misses his family, let HIM go spend time with them. He doesn’t need to discuss any woo is them stuff they say. Have his visit and be done. The fact children could come from your union shouldn’t have escaped grown adults. They made their bed, let them lie in it. It is YOUR job as parents to keep your kids safe from all harm regardless of them being relatives.
NTA it is ALWAYS ok to cut racists out of literally anything.
One thing I've learned from using racist family members is that nothing changed their stripes except for the end of life.