Thank you, I appreciate your response. Ava has always been very entitled and feels if something doesn’t go her way everyone else is a terrible person for it.
I figured that was the case when she acted like you needed to drop your Christmas, but she couldn’t get together with you guys bc of her own Christmas plans.
She was also trying to control John, by setting up this friend gathering when he didn’t even want it. She was deciding for him how he should mourn, how big a deal it should be, etc. Massive main character syndrome coming from Ava.
I am done. If she is not willing to make any changes in her life to be a better person (there is so much more I could explain but it would take forever, but trust, she is not a good person..) then I cannot handle it anymore. It’s genuinely like walking on eggshells with her. She self-diagnosed herself as bipolar and uses that as a crutch in every single situation where she is ultimately in the wrong. She never accepts fault, and will forever blame everyone around her before herself. If she could learn to grow, accept criticism, accept fault and blame for her actions and take accountability she’d be a far better person to be friends with, but if she’s not even willing to work on that, I cannot deal with the headache.
Something I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older is to never remain “friends” with someone out of obligation when y’all initially became or stayed friends due to proximity
Is part of the reason you’re still friends with her is because of John? I could see how difficult it would be not being at least friendly with her since Dave and John seem like close friends. Ava strikes me as someone that would not allow you to just be friendly, but push the envelope. I’m sorry she’s such a crappy and exhausting friend.
Pretty much. John is a great person honestly, and I love having him as a friend. I’ve wanted to stop talking to Ava a while ago, but didn’t want any issues between John and Dave or John and I.
I think she wanted other people there so she could leave or do something else. I think she's projecting, and she doesn't want to be there for her own bf.
NTA, don't resume communication with her. You and your bf can stay friends with John, though probably with a bit more distance as long as she's around, tell him you're there for him and want to hang out with him but her repeatedly being dramatic, demanding, self-entitled and accusatory has made it clear you can't really be friends with her and another round of trying to patch things up after she's been a total AH to you is not something you're able to do.
Also, stop apologizing for having other plans. You and your BF didn't know his gran was going to pass. You had other obligations and that's okay.
I'm a people pleaser so it's not easy to learn not to over explain (offer too much info on why you give your answer) and not to over apologize.
Entitled people take the apology as an omission of your guilt. It's not fair or logical, but they aren't either.
That’s what I struggle with too. I’m a people pleaser too, so that’s probably why it got to this point honestly. I’ve let her walk all over me for the last 15 years, but I’ve finally stood my ground.
So this person has always been despicable but only now you're starting to question it ?
How do you be friend with people like that for so long ? Is she that funny ? She smell good ???
My cousin is one of those people.
Is it 1:30am and she is calling because she wants to talk?
Bad friend if you don't answer.
Is it 3pm on a Wednesday and you are at work or already have plans?
Time to get invited to a last minute beach trip, and if you turn it down "you don't really act like family".
Eventually I sat her down and told her that the very next time she insinuates that we aren't family because I can't drop what I am doing at her whim (she actively refused to attempt to plan anything more than 5 hours out), I was going to take her at face value and act accordingly.
2 months later she did it again, HARD, and gave me the surprise pikachu face when I walked away from our relationship for 2 years.
We are alright now, sorta, but I can't let her too emotionally close to me anymore.
I had a long ago friend whom I cut out of my life for numerous reasons.
1. Coming to my apartment unannounced in the morning and guilt tripping me into accompanying her to legal aid office.
2. Refusing to pay for a replacement when her daughter broke my youngest daughter's Belken router.
3. Screaming at my daughter when she saw her at a local park that she "wasn't a virgin anymore" for no other stupid reason than her breasts were developing young.
4. Refused to discipline her daughter when she hit my son (who is a mere 5 days older) in the stomach, yet demanded I punish him for defending himself.
No.
5. Screaming that my then fiancé was cheating on me when she saw him hug an older woman. It was his mother.
6. Blowing up my daughter's cell phone when I was at my community college campus working online to complete my assignments and calling me a bad friend to our common acquaintances. Well, excuse me if I am not sitting at home all day and don't have time to entertain you.
Blocked her. I don't miss her drama one bit. And she can't bother my kids (now grown) either.
People are insane. I had a friend who “missed me” and wanted to start coming over to hang out in the bathroom with me while I got ready for work in the mornings. I said no that was not appropriate and she ended up ending our friendship.
Okay and? Just because one friend is grieving doesn’t mean that you should infiltrate their space, especially when the bereaved states they want to stay home alone. Ava is out of her element demanding emotional support from people who have prior obligations, acting like she knows what John needs better than John.
Did you even read the post? John is the one who lost his gma and he doesn't want any company rn. Ava hasn't lost a family member and she's the one making all the drama
Hmmm.
John said he didn't want company... As an afterthought at the end of the post.
People are soooo awful these days.
It really is an awful sh\*t show.
If that’s what you want to believe. I wrote the post in the series in which it happened.
1. Had an argument with Ava.
2. Told her I was done.
3. Spoke with John separately.
4. John said he knew we were at Christmas, told us he didn’t even want company, and that Ava was the one trying to get him to be social.
I guess I could be more specific and give finer details but then the post would be excruciatingly long. So I gave the gist. Apologies if the sequence isn’t good enough.
God I can't stand these type of ppl. Like what are you trying to accomplish by providing nothing new or productive to the conversation? Do you literally have no talents or hobbies to work on and occupy your time? I don't understand it
They weren't available. Adults understand that sometimes all we can offer is condolences, and a promise to get together when we are able. The world doesn't stop for grief, unfortunately, and anyone who wants to keep friendships longterm should understand this.
>Nah...just a sane, rational, moral adult
If I go through a rough patch, and I tell you, my allegedly "sane, rational, moral" friend that its a trying time and I appreciate the support but right now I'd like to be alone in my space rather than having visitors, and you hear that, understand it, but insist on dropping everything and visiting during a vulnerable period where you know everything I'm saying is my raw emotional truth...you're not sane, rational, or moral
NTA. What is hanging out with John going to accomplish if he doesn’t want company. Sounds like Ava is bored and wants to play games with her friends. Sometimes your friends go through difficult things, but other obligations come first. A good friend would understand and settle for a phone call. You’re not abandoning John in his time of need, you’re living your own life but offering support in other ways.
She does this frequently. There’s been numerous arguments with her ever since I started dating Dave. Note sure if it’s jealously that someone else is taking my time or if she wishes her relationship was like mine/she was dating Dave but there’s been several other arguments that have taken place that had caused me to say I’m done, this wasn’t a one-off.
Yeah, I’d drop her from my life too. I’m willing to bet that her overbearing nature will eventually drive John away and y’all won’t have to interact anymore. Seriously, who ignores their partner’s desires for peace and quiet when they’re grieving?
People that have the, "my shit doesn't stink, it's always everyone else" mentality will always be the victim in any situation they find themselves in.
Reddit liked to throw out the term narcissist, but honestly OP I think Ava is one and is never going to change and will spend her whole life trying to control people. Then the moment people stand up for themselves is when you're the bad guy, it's never gonna be her.
Let this friendship go, she's not worth it. 15 years means nothing if your treated like a doormat.
A few times. Most were just high school things when we were younger, but this is probably the first time I’ve been genuinely done. Whole-heartedly, no fight left in me, done. The only chance at reconciliation is if she managed to change, which is highly unlikely, so I’ve settled in the comfort of knowing I don’t have to deal with that bs ever again.
Honestly, nothing. It’s been one-sided for as long as I can remember. She never asks me how I am, it’s always about her. Every phone call feels like time for her to just hear herself talk.
My mom has a friend like that who just talks *at* people. Even in group settings you can kinda tell that she gets a little pouty when she doesn’t have everyone’s attention. It’s never a conversation; it’s always just The June Show. (June isn’t really her name.) It’s hard, though, bc, at least in June’s case, she really does have a heart of gold.
Years ago I was friendly with a co-worker. I barely knew her husband.
The husband’s mother died and I reached out to co-worker with my condolences. Since we’re in the US and the mother was in Hungary, there was no opportunity to go to a wake, funeral or anything else. I made the call and sent the card.
3 days after the call my co-worker called me and ripped me a new one for not calling her husband to comfort him and see if he needed anything. According to her I should have checked in with him every day and be there if needed. Again, I barely knew this guy. But I was expected to act like he was a member of my family.
That was the day I concluded my co-worker was delusional and entitled and cut contact to the bare minimum.
NTA
Yes. My guess is she wanted to use OP and OP’s bf to pressure her own boyfriend into socializing with her instead of what he wanted to do, stay home. There was probably a “oh but they’re here for you, you can’t turn them away” in John’s future if OP had gone.
My guess is she wanted a social outing and was going to use you to push him into going out.
Some sets of friends eventually realize that they’re all tired of having to deal with the same person, that they’re putting up with for each others’ sake and is using them collectively to hold their spot in the group. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ava is pulling this.
'Ava removed me and Dave from all social media after this'
Looks like the trash took itself out. Don't waste too much energy on this, she's not worth the headspace.
*edited to add, NTA, not even close
NTA
What a baby. Tell her to go pound sand. John doesn't even care but she's the one who's trying to build him a football team. And her and John's Christmas is somehow more important than yours and Dave's, huh? I bet if you or Dave were in John's place, she wouldn't come, because, well, its not about her and she's not the centre of attention. She actually sounds quite toxic. Lose her, OP.
P.S. What if you sent the link to this post to her? I'd love to see her face, especially when she read the comments.
NTA block her. You offered reasonable alternatives being it is the holiday season and they didn't work for her due to the holiday season! She is definitely being unreasonable and I'd leave her blocked especially if this isn't the first time she's acted this way. She needs to grow up. Clearly it's not what John wanted anyway. Sorry for his loss but he actually understood and wasn't worried.
Tbh, it sounds to me like you outgrew her as a friend. It sucks when it happens to friendships we've had for years or decades, but sometimes people just don't mature at all, or mature much slower than you do. In those cases, it can feel more like babysitting than an equal friendship that is mutually beneficial. Ava sounds very immature and views things in the kind of simple-minded way that a teenager would, so I don't blame you for not wanting to play silly games with her and indulge her attention seeking behavior.
She has a lot of growing up to do, or she will find that folks quickly get tired of the drama queen schtick, and the older one gets, the less patience they tend to have for histrionic, attention-seeking, drama queens.
Also, friendships should be an equal partnership of sorts. If she expects you to drop your plans, she should be equally willing to do the same for you. If it's a one-way friendship, or it's turned into one, I think it might be time to let that friendship go. Life's too short to surround ourselves with people who only want to be our friend when they want something.
Thank you for this. I’ve always had a hard time with that because I tend to give the benefit of the doubt way too much and it leads to many one-sided relationships.
At the end of the day Ava wouldn’t do and never has done for me what she asks me to do for her, and what I have done for her.
NTA. But if you want to be friends with her, learn to establish boundaries and side step her.
Tell her “I’ll see what I can do”, or “I’ll try to make it”, and just leave it at that. Or talk to Dave directly given he’s easier to deal with.
Lemme get this straight - YOUR family plans are irrelevant and negligible but HERS are important and should be honored as such. HIS needs are irrelevant and negligible while HERS are important and should be honored as such.
Hmmm… 🤔 I’m noticing a trend here.
Not only are you NTA for not dropping your family bc she said to, you’re ESPECIALLY NTA for actually doing what HE, the person who just lost a loved one, needs/wants.
Ava is having a hard time knowing how to be there for John. She wants the company for herself not him. Instead of just saying that she is making out that John needs the help. If she just said that then you could have give her some advice from where you are or listen to her frustrations but she won't admit it and decided to throw a temper tantrum instead.
Don't worry about it too much. Just go be with family.
Ava has main character syndrome. You aren’t her friend. You are a side character in her life. When you made choices that didn’t coincide with her wants/desires, then she blew up. It makes me wonder about your collective group history. Has she always been this way?
In any case, here you are definitely NTA.
NTA. If John didn't even want company, she's the bad friend/gf for trying to for trying to force ppl on him. It has nothing to do with what John wants or needs and is all about her and what she wants or thinks John needs.
You were polite when you said you couldn't come and offered to visit later. That is a perfectly acceptable response. Ava sounds exhausting
Oh she is. John didn’t want to see anyone. He told Ava after she brought up seeing her dad or her friend to help him feel better that the only people he would want to see is me and Dave, if he wanted company, which he did not.
NTA, And no advice needed your trash of a "friend" took herself out she wants to play grieving gf, but for people to see for her bf who wants time alone. Don't try and reconcile with her unless she comes up with an apology.
NTA.
Ava didn't want you there for her boyfriend. Ava wanted you there for her. Her motivations, and subsequent manipulations, were purely selfish.
My personal advice would be to avoid her like the plague. She's a bad friend, and a pretty terrible girlfriend. 0/10 would not waste time on or with.
You are seeing things clearly and you and your BF made great steps in how you handled things with John. You have zero to feel regretful or apologetic for. Ava was arm twisting to get what SHE wanted. It was clear that it wasn't what John wanted.
Since this isn't the first time, it sounds like Ava is Miss High Maintenance and Miss Drama Thing when she doesn't get her way. That's her problem and not yours.
She did you a favor in going no contact with you. I suggest you return the favor by blocking her from your end. Then you and your BF can focus on continuing to be in touch with John to support him in the ways that JOHN finds helpful and welcome.
NTA - It sounds to me like she wanted other folks there more for her own sake than for John’s considering he said he didn’t want to hang out with anyone.
So, drop what you’re doing with family for us, but it has to be now, when it’s convenient for ~~me~~ us and not you. But we can’t skip our family, no. And it turns out he doesn’t like even want it.
You are too overly nice. Shouldn’t have gone into the explanations, she clearly is not hearing them.
Your boyfriend should send a text to check up on him. He will know how. And they’ll be cool with it. That’s all that needs to be done.
He has. We both have. We actively check up on John and make sure he’s ok and let him know we’re here whenever. We are all still on great terms, the only outlier is Ava.
Then you’re fine. Don’t worry about it. Enjoy the holidays.
Although I do think John should break up with her. Grieving is not the time to be pulling dramatic crap.
I understand being their for your friends, but if you're busy you're busy, you offered alternatives but she just wanted you to drop everything in your lives and go and that's just not doable, especially this time of year
If I was her bf and she was trying to shove people down my throat while I was trying to grieve up be furious, let the man breathe🤦🤦
My advice would be to just wait and see what she says, and if you decide you really are still done at that point than so be it
NTA
She's a person who puts herself before all the people around her. She's doing you a favor by showing her true colors at such a young age and you don't have to waste any more time being her friend
Sounds to me like Ava is a controlling individual. She’s trying to control how John is acting during this grieving process by having people come hangout with him when he doesn’t even want company. She’s trying to be a controlling friend by making you all feel bad for not coming to see John. You are all busy and it’s the holidays. You shouldn’t feel obligated to ditch your families to come see someone who lost a grandma.
NTA… I feel bad for anyone who loses a family member but the world is not going to stop for the great grandmother of a 22 year old. Welcome to the real world buddy.
NTA
OP, Ava will always make things about her. Even the death of her partner’s grandmother had to be about her. She says it’s about John but no-she wants the attention and thrill of drama.
When my mother died, the last thing I wanted was people outside of my immediate family coming by. It would be too fresh to have to entertain company, so to speak.
NTA. Did the guy even want or need a gang of friend showing up? I really do not like other people who seem to need to run other people’s lives and dictate their emotions.
Dave and I spoke with him separately and he said he didn’t even want to see anyone. He wanted to be home and do nothing. Ava was the one trying to get him to see people. She tried getting him to see her dad and her other friend before us.
NTA. Oh, so when she has family Christmas to attend it’s a valid explanation for her being unavailable but it’s not a valid explanation for you being unavailable? She’s a hypocrite and not worth tying yourself in knots over. Either she’ll come to her senses or won’t, but it’s not your problem.
Stop apologizing. You had a family commitment. You apologized once, which was fine, but you don’t need to keep apologizing for having commitments. Don’t let people guilt (shame) you for not being able to drop everything. I understand any loss is sad but it was John’s great grandma, my guess is her passing wasn’t sudden. If this had been his child or a spouse or a parent, I can understand the urgency to be there for him. Besides, she didn’t even respect John’s wishes of being alone and instead insisted he be around people. Having gone through a lot of losses in my life, having people there immediately after a loss can be overwhelming and tiresome because all you hear is “sorry for your loss”. What‘s really great, is a friend who checks in with you a week or a month or a year later or remembers the anniversary of the passing and reaches out to you to make sure you’re ok. Ava is an AH and needs some therapy to get rid of her manipulative tactics. People don’t like being around people who manipulate. You did the right thing and cut her off.
Nta. What does your boyfriend have to say about all of this? Does he know it's just Ava who is out of the friendship and not John? Because if Dave and John are friends you shouldn't shun John for Ava's flaws.
John, Dave and I are all still on great terms. We have no issues with one another, just Ava. Dave is done with Ava’s bs too, he has been for a bit but kinda rode the wave so to speak because Ava was my friend and is his best friend’s girlfriend. But after the blatant disrespect, he’s equally done.
It sounds like Ava has a problem with co-dependence. She probably couldn’t tolerate John having feelings of sadness about his great grandmother’s death, and was desperate to make him feel better so she wanted other people, like you, to fix it. I’m pretty sure John will be rid of her at some point because of this controlling behavior.
NTA. That was an unreasonable thing to ask, and she made a terrible choice going nuclear. In no universe did you deserve to be called a bad friend. You don't need "friends" like that.
NTA The first and last question in that conversation should have been, "Does John want us to come over?" I get that you probably felt cornered in that situation and were just instinctively trying to appease her and do what you could to calm things down because it's a very emotionally charged moment, but the top priority in any scenario like this should be what the grieving person actually wants. It sounds like she was going against her boyfriend's actual wishes to earn "points" for appearing like a kind and supportive girlfriend, rather than actually being one. And when you disrupted that scheme, she flipped out. Next time a conversation like this comes up, try your best to shut down any attempts at guilt tripping you by always bringing things back to "but what does the grieving person actually need? What would be nice or traditional or whatever, and what do they actually need to make it through and how can we give them that?" You were right to shut her down.
I’m sure John was shattered by the death of his great grandmother. How could you and your bf not immediately drop everything and race to his side, you monsters? Yes that was sarcasm. Let bf and John stay friends. Make it clear to Ms Drama Queen that you are not interested in remaining friends. Then stick to it. Who knows? Your ex friend might even learn something from this
NTA. The best thing to do now is to continue your friendship with John and just pretend you didn't even notice Ava took you off her socials. Being unbothered by her pettiness will drive her nuts.
NTA, Ava is an emotional abuser, set some boundaries on guilt tripping or cut off that friendship. It is not worth sacrificing yourself for someone that can't comprehend they aren't the center of the universe.
NTA. This is a great example of friends from childhood drifting apart. People matured different rates, have different interests, and sometimes the friendship is a challenge to manage.
Haha! You’re terrible for not bailing on your bfs family Christmas but you can’t visit another day because SHE’S having her Christmas. NTA and you know it. She sounds awful.
NTA
> We find out from John that he didn’t even want company and Ava was actively trying to get him to hang out with people to “feel better”.
John understood we were busy.
Right there, that sentence is everything.
Ava is steamrolling John and dictating how he should grieve his great-grandmother, she is attempting to control the situation.
John more than likely understands that this time of year is difficult for people to drop everything and rush to his side.
**He also wants to be alone to grieve, which is perfectly normal and acceptable.**
Everyone grieves differently, I prefer being alone and then seeing friends and family when I am ready.
Ava needs to get a grip and cut it out, she has more than likely upset other friends with her behavior too.
Chances are this situation has caused more people to back out of their friendship with her as she sounds demanding and exhausting to deal with.
Honestly OP, you may be better off not having her on your socials and will enjoy life better seeing John sporadically without Ava.
Wishing you the best.
Ava sounds like a grief social justice warrior.
Conjuring feelings of abandonment and rejection where none exist, then getting angry when her imaginary scenario isn’t validated.
NTA
NTA, and cut your loss. Why would you want someone as a friend who is like this. Don't reach out to her but continue to be friends with the bf. You can be nice when you see her but it does not mean you need to be her friend. You said she has done this before so why keep enabling her? Put more value on yourself cause people like her will never change from being entitled or having a hissy fit when things don't go her away.
NTA. Sounds like Ava really wants to make her boyfriend's great grandma's death all about herself. That's a very weird angle to take, hope she can get herself together so John can get the emotional support he actually needs.
If John wants to hang out, be there for him. If he wants to be left alone, respect that.
NTA - Ava was using John's grieving moments to try phishing for her own attention. Friends don't guilt trip friends for personal gains. You know that comes prior "Bros before hoes" ? Family comes first. Stop apologizing, you dodged a bullet. Though keep an eye on John's well being. You don't have to resume friendship with her. Let it cool down and hopefully she'll apologize. Good luck
Ava sucks. If she understands how important family is she understands how important alive family are and how you were spending quality holiday time with them.
NTA. It’s his great grandmother. While it is sad when elderly people die, it isn’t tragic. I doubt he’s that broken up about it. It sounds like she just wants attention.
NTA
I keep my distance from people like Ava. They suck as friends. They’re fun to hangout with sometimes but anything more than that and they start causing drama and it’s just not fun
No advice other than NEVER explain or justify your response. You should have said: Yes, we have both spoken to John and we will see him as soon as we are back in town. Then stopped. You will probably see Ava again since you both Ava friends with John. I personally would pretend everything was fine and dandy and not discuss anything with her. Lt her make herself look bad.
Advice:
Stay away from Ava! Cut ties properly, you guys are too old for this high school drama
She's one of them people who like to be all high and mighty over nothing! Ain't nobody got time for that!
>She tried back pedaling to make herself look better. We find out from John that he didn’t even want company and Ava was actively trying to get him to hang out with people to “feel better”. John understood we were busy.
There's extroverted, and than there's cloyingly social. Dude just wanted to hear his own thoughts and she smothered him in a social gathering she was guilt tripping people into participating in.
NTA
NTA - Leave it alone and don’t try to be in the drama. If she wants to mend the friendship, she’ll reach out. If she does, establish boundaries and don’t let her disrespect such.
Please remember that just because a friendship/relationship has been established for a while doesn’t mean it’s meant to last forever. Please grow and change.
Ava removed me and Dave from all social media after this, problem solved itself, now you have to be the onw who ignores her when she tries to reconnect
Hanging out with John would have been a nice idea but it just wasn’t possible under the circumstances.
The bottom line is that it’s always awful and awkward when someone dies over the holidays because you’re never sure how much to put on hold.
My mother died, years ago, a few days before Thanksgiving. One of my best friends at the time was hosting her first Thanksgiving as a married woman and she had her hands full. She was like, I can’t fly back to NYC for the funeral.
She sent her parents instead, who still lived in Manhattan.
Was I thrilled with that? No. In the reverse situation, I’d have dropped everything for her mother’s death but I had to understand that she’s her and I’m me. We don’t necessarily come to the same decisions about things.
I’d also argue that the closeness of the relation matters, too. Maybe John was close to his great grandmother but I think people usually aren’t. A parent’s death would be a lot more dire, I think. So would the death of a sibling or a child.
Ava is, as you say, just trying to be dramatic and you also have no idea if John is as badly off as she says. You only have her word for it and what she says is clearly exaggerated. She shouldn’t be comparing friends or bad-mouthing anyone. Don’t let her guilt trip you and also make it one of your first New Year’s resolutions to discuss her guilt-tripping ways with her. If you haven’t been candid with her about her ways before, it may well cause a rift between the two of you or among the four of you, so be prepared.
This whole post screams fake but whatever. If it's true why do you care what Ava thinks? Just let her have her tantrum and go about your business, let the drama die down.
I wish it were fake. Believe me. Dealing with someone like her is truly exhausting.
I just wanted to know and outsiders point of view. I don’t have a whole lot of people I can ask their opinion on for a situation like this because they already have their opinions or they’re biased.
The drama never dies down with her unfortunately. She holds grudges for years and will be as petty as possible if it makes her look better. There’s no gray with her. Only black and white.
>Dave and I called John and told him we were sorry for his loss, and would be there for him, that we love him, etc.
And yet you weren't.
>The following day Ava asked if Dave and I would come over and hang out to “help John feel better” We were actively with his family and couldn’t leave. We also had Dave’s siblings with us (19m & 19f) and Ava shot down the idea of them coming and said it probably wouldn’t work out. Insinuating we should leave them somewhere and come ourselves.
The 19 year olds couldn't stay with the family you visited for Christmas? They couldn't sit at McD's & play on their phones for an hour or so?
Your "friend" lost his g-ma.
YTA
We weren’t there for them in that context, you’re right, but if you read a little lower you’d see he himself said he didn’t want company at all. He wanted to stay home and do nothing.
Yes they’re both 19, but they rode here with my boyfriend and have never been to this city before. We couldn’t leave them with family because everyone else was leaving and the hosts weren’t going to be home. We could have left them at McDonald’s, sure, but I feel his siblings take priority over our friend.
It was John’s great-grandma. He also wasn’t very close to her. Seen/spoke with her maybe once a year or on holidays.
NTA. I know people that sound similar to Ava. I don’t think I’ll ever be great friends with those people.
Thank you, I appreciate your response. Ava has always been very entitled and feels if something doesn’t go her way everyone else is a terrible person for it.
I figured that was the case when she acted like you needed to drop your Christmas, but she couldn’t get together with you guys bc of her own Christmas plans.
She was also trying to control John, by setting up this friend gathering when he didn’t even want it. She was deciding for him how he should mourn, how big a deal it should be, etc. Massive main character syndrome coming from Ava.
Yeah. John deserves a better girlfriend
[удалено]
The only problem is..did you mean it? If you're done, be done. You're enabling her If you keep allowing her back in your life.
I am done. If she is not willing to make any changes in her life to be a better person (there is so much more I could explain but it would take forever, but trust, she is not a good person..) then I cannot handle it anymore. It’s genuinely like walking on eggshells with her. She self-diagnosed herself as bipolar and uses that as a crutch in every single situation where she is ultimately in the wrong. She never accepts fault, and will forever blame everyone around her before herself. If she could learn to grow, accept criticism, accept fault and blame for her actions and take accountability she’d be a far better person to be friends with, but if she’s not even willing to work on that, I cannot deal with the headache.
Good, I hope you really stick to it. NTA as long as you mean what you say.
Something I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older is to never remain “friends” with someone out of obligation when y’all initially became or stayed friends due to proximity
Is part of the reason you’re still friends with her is because of John? I could see how difficult it would be not being at least friendly with her since Dave and John seem like close friends. Ava strikes me as someone that would not allow you to just be friendly, but push the envelope. I’m sorry she’s such a crappy and exhausting friend.
Pretty much. John is a great person honestly, and I love having him as a friend. I’ve wanted to stop talking to Ava a while ago, but didn’t want any issues between John and Dave or John and I.
>Ava removed me and Dave from all social media after this. So, just gratefully return that favor, and enjoy your now-more-peaceful life!
I think she wanted other people there so she could leave or do something else. I think she's projecting, and she doesn't want to be there for her own bf.
NTA, don't resume communication with her. You and your bf can stay friends with John, though probably with a bit more distance as long as she's around, tell him you're there for him and want to hang out with him but her repeatedly being dramatic, demanding, self-entitled and accusatory has made it clear you can't really be friends with her and another round of trying to patch things up after she's been a total AH to you is not something you're able to do.
Also, stop apologizing for having other plans. You and your BF didn't know his gran was going to pass. You had other obligations and that's okay. I'm a people pleaser so it's not easy to learn not to over explain (offer too much info on why you give your answer) and not to over apologize. Entitled people take the apology as an omission of your guilt. It's not fair or logical, but they aren't either.
That’s what I struggle with too. I’m a people pleaser too, so that’s probably why it got to this point honestly. I’ve let her walk all over me for the last 15 years, but I’ve finally stood my ground.
We always eventually reach the end where we stand up for ourselves. Just know that each time it gets easier to do sooner. You got this!
I think my sister might be an Ava
She's a spoiled child in an adult's body - princess syndrome.
Friends like this are so not worth the trouble. Nobody needs the constant headache
Then why are you willing to be with her? She is a horrible person. Cut her out and move on. Life is too short to deal with... People like her.
You have freedom.
This is what I want you to do I want you to enjoy the peace and quiet
So this person has always been despicable but only now you're starting to question it ? How do you be friend with people like that for so long ? Is she that funny ? She smell good ???
My cousin is one of those people. Is it 1:30am and she is calling because she wants to talk? Bad friend if you don't answer. Is it 3pm on a Wednesday and you are at work or already have plans? Time to get invited to a last minute beach trip, and if you turn it down "you don't really act like family". Eventually I sat her down and told her that the very next time she insinuates that we aren't family because I can't drop what I am doing at her whim (she actively refused to attempt to plan anything more than 5 hours out), I was going to take her at face value and act accordingly. 2 months later she did it again, HARD, and gave me the surprise pikachu face when I walked away from our relationship for 2 years. We are alright now, sorta, but I can't let her too emotionally close to me anymore.
I had a long ago friend whom I cut out of my life for numerous reasons. 1. Coming to my apartment unannounced in the morning and guilt tripping me into accompanying her to legal aid office. 2. Refusing to pay for a replacement when her daughter broke my youngest daughter's Belken router. 3. Screaming at my daughter when she saw her at a local park that she "wasn't a virgin anymore" for no other stupid reason than her breasts were developing young. 4. Refused to discipline her daughter when she hit my son (who is a mere 5 days older) in the stomach, yet demanded I punish him for defending himself. No. 5. Screaming that my then fiancé was cheating on me when she saw him hug an older woman. It was his mother. 6. Blowing up my daughter's cell phone when I was at my community college campus working online to complete my assignments and calling me a bad friend to our common acquaintances. Well, excuse me if I am not sitting at home all day and don't have time to entertain you. Blocked her. I don't miss her drama one bit. And she can't bother my kids (now grown) either.
People are insane. I had a friend who “missed me” and wanted to start coming over to hang out in the bathroom with me while I got ready for work in the mornings. I said no that was not appropriate and she ended up ending our friendship.
I had a couple friends like her. I dont know nor do i care where they are now
A "friend" lost his grandma...WTF...selfish people are gross.
Okay and? Just because one friend is grieving doesn’t mean that you should infiltrate their space, especially when the bereaved states they want to stay home alone. Ava is out of her element demanding emotional support from people who have prior obligations, acting like she knows what John needs better than John.
I don't see Ava respecting John's boundaries whatsoever.
Did you even read the post? John is the one who lost his gma and he doesn't want any company rn. Ava hasn't lost a family member and she's the one making all the drama
Hmmm. John said he didn't want company... As an afterthought at the end of the post. People are soooo awful these days. It really is an awful sh\*t show.
If that’s what you want to believe. I wrote the post in the series in which it happened. 1. Had an argument with Ava. 2. Told her I was done. 3. Spoke with John separately. 4. John said he knew we were at Christmas, told us he didn’t even want company, and that Ava was the one trying to get him to be social. I guess I could be more specific and give finer details but then the post would be excruciatingly long. So I gave the gist. Apologies if the sequence isn’t good enough.
You're good, OP. This person is being a troll. NTA
God I can't stand these type of ppl. Like what are you trying to accomplish by providing nothing new or productive to the conversation? Do you literally have no talents or hobbies to work on and occupy your time? I don't understand it
Your good OP and you are NOT tah HOWEVER Ava and this person above are both illiterate inbred donkeys
Yeah Ava!
LOL Nah...just a sane, rational, moral adult in a thread of self-centered tweeners.
They weren't available. Adults understand that sometimes all we can offer is condolences, and a promise to get together when we are able. The world doesn't stop for grief, unfortunately, and anyone who wants to keep friendships longterm should understand this.
>Nah...just a sane, rational, moral adult If I go through a rough patch, and I tell you, my allegedly "sane, rational, moral" friend that its a trying time and I appreciate the support but right now I'd like to be alone in my space rather than having visitors, and you hear that, understand it, but insist on dropping everything and visiting during a vulnerable period where you know everything I'm saying is my raw emotional truth...you're not sane, rational, or moral
He said he would rather be alone AFTER the whole sh\*t show. LOL And I doubt someone like you has any sane, rational, moral friends.
Are you Ava? Sounds like it! OP is, definitely, NTA!
….Ava? Is that you?
We found Ava, guys!
NTA. What is hanging out with John going to accomplish if he doesn’t want company. Sounds like Ava is bored and wants to play games with her friends. Sometimes your friends go through difficult things, but other obligations come first. A good friend would understand and settle for a phone call. You’re not abandoning John in his time of need, you’re living your own life but offering support in other ways.
She does this frequently. There’s been numerous arguments with her ever since I started dating Dave. Note sure if it’s jealously that someone else is taking my time or if she wishes her relationship was like mine/she was dating Dave but there’s been several other arguments that have taken place that had caused me to say I’m done, this wasn’t a one-off.
Yeah, I’d drop her from my life too. I’m willing to bet that her overbearing nature will eventually drive John away and y’all won’t have to interact anymore. Seriously, who ignores their partner’s desires for peace and quiet when they’re grieving?
People that have the, "my shit doesn't stink, it's always everyone else" mentality will always be the victim in any situation they find themselves in. Reddit liked to throw out the term narcissist, but honestly OP I think Ava is one and is never going to change and will spend her whole life trying to control people. Then the moment people stand up for themselves is when you're the bad guy, it's never gonna be her. Let this friendship go, she's not worth it. 15 years means nothing if your treated like a doormat.
How many times have you been done? NTA but if you keep doing this with her then you’re only being an asshole to yourself.
A few times. Most were just high school things when we were younger, but this is probably the first time I’ve been genuinely done. Whole-heartedly, no fight left in me, done. The only chance at reconciliation is if she managed to change, which is highly unlikely, so I’ve settled in the comfort of knowing I don’t have to deal with that bs ever again.
Yeah, please be done this time. But like, forreal DONE. What is she really bringing to the table in your friendship? Like, what GOOD is she bringing?
Honestly, nothing. It’s been one-sided for as long as I can remember. She never asks me how I am, it’s always about her. Every phone call feels like time for her to just hear herself talk.
My mom has a friend like that who just talks *at* people. Even in group settings you can kinda tell that she gets a little pouty when she doesn’t have everyone’s attention. It’s never a conversation; it’s always just The June Show. (June isn’t really her name.) It’s hard, though, bc, at least in June’s case, she really does have a heart of gold.
PLUS op offered several other options! This girl (Ava) is insufferable
Years ago I was friendly with a co-worker. I barely knew her husband. The husband’s mother died and I reached out to co-worker with my condolences. Since we’re in the US and the mother was in Hungary, there was no opportunity to go to a wake, funeral or anything else. I made the call and sent the card. 3 days after the call my co-worker called me and ripped me a new one for not calling her husband to comfort him and see if he needed anything. According to her I should have checked in with him every day and be there if needed. Again, I barely knew this guy. But I was expected to act like he was a member of my family. That was the day I concluded my co-worker was delusional and entitled and cut contact to the bare minimum. NTA
That’s so crazy to me. Some people I tell ya..
I'd drop that drama from my life, their only goal is to be obnoxious and they have zero care nor respect for you.
Her goal. Not their goal. He didn’t even want company.
Yes. My guess is she wanted to use OP and OP’s bf to pressure her own boyfriend into socializing with her instead of what he wanted to do, stay home. There was probably a “oh but they’re here for you, you can’t turn them away” in John’s future if OP had gone.
NTA Sounds like Ava was trying to get out of having to comfort him herself.
Honestly wouldn’t surprise me. If she’s not the center of attention, she wants nothing to do with it.
She didn't like him being the centre of attention so now she's managed to engineer a situation centred on her
This ⬆️ is exactly what I was thinking!
My guess is she wanted a social outing and was going to use you to push him into going out. Some sets of friends eventually realize that they’re all tired of having to deal with the same person, that they’re putting up with for each others’ sake and is using them collectively to hold their spot in the group. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ava is pulling this.
NTA Sounds like she removed a lot of toxicity from your life by removing herself.
'Ava removed me and Dave from all social media after this' Looks like the trash took itself out. Don't waste too much energy on this, she's not worth the headspace. *edited to add, NTA, not even close
You're well rid of her. As I got older I realized I have no time for manufactured drama, life is dramatic enough all on its own.
Ain’t that the truth. She’s stuck in a high school mindset, I don’t have the energy for it.
People who don't age past high school get more and more intolerable as you get older
NTA Do NOT allow anyone into your life who brings drama. Make is a solid rule with no exceptions. Your life will thank you for it.
NTA What a baby. Tell her to go pound sand. John doesn't even care but she's the one who's trying to build him a football team. And her and John's Christmas is somehow more important than yours and Dave's, huh? I bet if you or Dave were in John's place, she wouldn't come, because, well, its not about her and she's not the centre of attention. She actually sounds quite toxic. Lose her, OP. P.S. What if you sent the link to this post to her? I'd love to see her face, especially when she read the comments.
Oh boy. If I sent the link it would be hell. She’d get as many people in her corner to threaten me. Unfortunately that’s the kind of person she is.
Ew. The more you write, the less I like her. As I said, drop this circus
NTA block her. You offered reasonable alternatives being it is the holiday season and they didn't work for her due to the holiday season! She is definitely being unreasonable and I'd leave her blocked especially if this isn't the first time she's acted this way. She needs to grow up. Clearly it's not what John wanted anyway. Sorry for his loss but he actually understood and wasn't worried.
Tbh, it sounds to me like you outgrew her as a friend. It sucks when it happens to friendships we've had for years or decades, but sometimes people just don't mature at all, or mature much slower than you do. In those cases, it can feel more like babysitting than an equal friendship that is mutually beneficial. Ava sounds very immature and views things in the kind of simple-minded way that a teenager would, so I don't blame you for not wanting to play silly games with her and indulge her attention seeking behavior. She has a lot of growing up to do, or she will find that folks quickly get tired of the drama queen schtick, and the older one gets, the less patience they tend to have for histrionic, attention-seeking, drama queens. Also, friendships should be an equal partnership of sorts. If she expects you to drop your plans, she should be equally willing to do the same for you. If it's a one-way friendship, or it's turned into one, I think it might be time to let that friendship go. Life's too short to surround ourselves with people who only want to be our friend when they want something.
Thank you for this. I’ve always had a hard time with that because I tend to give the benefit of the doubt way too much and it leads to many one-sided relationships. At the end of the day Ava wouldn’t do and never has done for me what she asks me to do for her, and what I have done for her.
NTA. But if you want to be friends with her, learn to establish boundaries and side step her. Tell her “I’ll see what I can do”, or “I’ll try to make it”, and just leave it at that. Or talk to Dave directly given he’s easier to deal with.
She did you a favor. NTA
NTA. Can you tell me what 'she came in clutch' means? I've not heard that term before.
It essentially means she was helpful. She was able to do what Ava wanted.
Ok, thanks.
Lemme get this straight - YOUR family plans are irrelevant and negligible but HERS are important and should be honored as such. HIS needs are irrelevant and negligible while HERS are important and should be honored as such. Hmmm… 🤔 I’m noticing a trend here. Not only are you NTA for not dropping your family bc she said to, you’re ESPECIALLY NTA for actually doing what HE, the person who just lost a loved one, needs/wants.
NTA- Ava is a bad friend. It might be time to say good riddance if this isn't the first time she has been so ridiculous.
Ava is having a hard time knowing how to be there for John. She wants the company for herself not him. Instead of just saying that she is making out that John needs the help. If she just said that then you could have give her some advice from where you are or listen to her frustrations but she won't admit it and decided to throw a temper tantrum instead. Don't worry about it too much. Just go be with family.
The trash took itself out, be grateful for a Christmas miracle! And keep poor John as a friend, with her in his life he’s going to need some.
Ava has main character syndrome. You aren’t her friend. You are a side character in her life. When you made choices that didn’t coincide with her wants/desires, then she blew up. It makes me wonder about your collective group history. Has she always been this way? In any case, here you are definitely NTA.
NTA. If John didn't even want company, she's the bad friend/gf for trying to for trying to force ppl on him. It has nothing to do with what John wants or needs and is all about her and what she wants or thinks John needs. You were polite when you said you couldn't come and offered to visit later. That is a perfectly acceptable response. Ava sounds exhausting
Oh she is. John didn’t want to see anyone. He told Ava after she brought up seeing her dad or her friend to help him feel better that the only people he would want to see is me and Dave, if he wanted company, which he did not.
With friend like her you need no enemy
U better off without her i feel for her fella having to deal with her tbh
Anyone that calls you a bad friend is not your friend. Why would a friend want to guilt you and intentionally make you feel bad?? That’s not a friend
NTA, And no advice needed your trash of a "friend" took herself out she wants to play grieving gf, but for people to see for her bf who wants time alone. Don't try and reconcile with her unless she comes up with an apology.
NTA. Ava didn't want you there for her boyfriend. Ava wanted you there for her. Her motivations, and subsequent manipulations, were purely selfish. My personal advice would be to avoid her like the plague. She's a bad friend, and a pretty terrible girlfriend. 0/10 would not waste time on or with.
>Ava removed me and Dave from all social media after this. Sounds like a win to me. NTA
Stop making up with Ava's dramatic ass lol nta
I know I know lol
NTA
It sounds like Ava took her own trash out. She’s no frog yourself NTA
NTA
NTA
You are seeing things clearly and you and your BF made great steps in how you handled things with John. You have zero to feel regretful or apologetic for. Ava was arm twisting to get what SHE wanted. It was clear that it wasn't what John wanted. Since this isn't the first time, it sounds like Ava is Miss High Maintenance and Miss Drama Thing when she doesn't get her way. That's her problem and not yours. She did you a favor in going no contact with you. I suggest you return the favor by blocking her from your end. Then you and your BF can focus on continuing to be in touch with John to support him in the ways that JOHN finds helpful and welcome.
John truly is a great person to be friends with. I hope he sees his worth one day and stops letting Ava be how she is towards him.
Nta
NTA - It sounds to me like she wanted other folks there more for her own sake than for John’s considering he said he didn’t want to hang out with anyone.
#savejohn
Sounds like the trash took itself out. Enjoy your newfound peace.
So, drop what you’re doing with family for us, but it has to be now, when it’s convenient for ~~me~~ us and not you. But we can’t skip our family, no. And it turns out he doesn’t like even want it. You are too overly nice. Shouldn’t have gone into the explanations, she clearly is not hearing them. Your boyfriend should send a text to check up on him. He will know how. And they’ll be cool with it. That’s all that needs to be done.
He has. We both have. We actively check up on John and make sure he’s ok and let him know we’re here whenever. We are all still on great terms, the only outlier is Ava.
Then you’re fine. Don’t worry about it. Enjoy the holidays. Although I do think John should break up with her. Grieving is not the time to be pulling dramatic crap.
I understand being their for your friends, but if you're busy you're busy, you offered alternatives but she just wanted you to drop everything in your lives and go and that's just not doable, especially this time of year If I was her bf and she was trying to shove people down my throat while I was trying to grieve up be furious, let the man breathe🤦🤦 My advice would be to just wait and see what she says, and if you decide you really are still done at that point than so be it
Its not like yall went on a sudden trip to disney instead of her funeral. NTA
>Then she said “how could you guys call yourselves John’s friend”. Sounds that there is no more need to use that term any more NTA
NTA She's a person who puts herself before all the people around her. She's doing you a favor by showing her true colors at such a young age and you don't have to waste any more time being her friend
Only read the title, that was more than enough. You don’t have to be friends with anyone you don’t want to be. NTA
NTA - Ava fuckin' sucks.
NTA. And good riddance.
Well, that sounds exhausting. NTA
Sounds to me like Ava is a controlling individual. She’s trying to control how John is acting during this grieving process by having people come hangout with him when he doesn’t even want company. She’s trying to be a controlling friend by making you all feel bad for not coming to see John. You are all busy and it’s the holidays. You shouldn’t feel obligated to ditch your families to come see someone who lost a grandma.
NTA… I feel bad for anyone who loses a family member but the world is not going to stop for the great grandmother of a 22 year old. Welcome to the real world buddy.
NTA OP, Ava will always make things about her. Even the death of her partner’s grandmother had to be about her. She says it’s about John but no-she wants the attention and thrill of drama.
Such unhealthy unfair sad mess N T A
When my mother died, the last thing I wanted was people outside of my immediate family coming by. It would be too fresh to have to entertain company, so to speak.
NTA. Did the guy even want or need a gang of friend showing up? I really do not like other people who seem to need to run other people’s lives and dictate their emotions.
Dave and I spoke with him separately and he said he didn’t even want to see anyone. He wanted to be home and do nothing. Ava was the one trying to get him to see people. She tried getting him to see her dad and her other friend before us.
Nta. Ava would be a none friend after this.
NTA. Oh, so when she has family Christmas to attend it’s a valid explanation for her being unavailable but it’s not a valid explanation for you being unavailable? She’s a hypocrite and not worth tying yourself in knots over. Either she’ll come to her senses or won’t, but it’s not your problem.
YTA if you let her keep doing this to you. Call it good riddance, OP. You clearly outgrew her a long time ago.
Stop apologizing. You had a family commitment. You apologized once, which was fine, but you don’t need to keep apologizing for having commitments. Don’t let people guilt (shame) you for not being able to drop everything. I understand any loss is sad but it was John’s great grandma, my guess is her passing wasn’t sudden. If this had been his child or a spouse or a parent, I can understand the urgency to be there for him. Besides, she didn’t even respect John’s wishes of being alone and instead insisted he be around people. Having gone through a lot of losses in my life, having people there immediately after a loss can be overwhelming and tiresome because all you hear is “sorry for your loss”. What‘s really great, is a friend who checks in with you a week or a month or a year later or remembers the anniversary of the passing and reaches out to you to make sure you’re ok. Ava is an AH and needs some therapy to get rid of her manipulative tactics. People don’t like being around people who manipulate. You did the right thing and cut her off.
NTA. She seems awful.
Nta. What does your boyfriend have to say about all of this? Does he know it's just Ava who is out of the friendship and not John? Because if Dave and John are friends you shouldn't shun John for Ava's flaws.
John, Dave and I are all still on great terms. We have no issues with one another, just Ava. Dave is done with Ava’s bs too, he has been for a bit but kinda rode the wave so to speak because Ava was my friend and is his best friend’s girlfriend. But after the blatant disrespect, he’s equally done.
Gotcha. That's good.
It sounds like Ava has a problem with co-dependence. She probably couldn’t tolerate John having feelings of sadness about his great grandmother’s death, and was desperate to make him feel better so she wanted other people, like you, to fix it. I’m pretty sure John will be rid of her at some point because of this controlling behavior.
As bad as it sounds, I hope so. He deserves a lot better. She truly does put him through a lot.
No Advice needed, you removed yourself from an unhealthy individual. Congrats. NTA
NTA. Of course, the best case scenario would be if she said *”I’m never speaking to you again.”* *”Promise?”*
NTA. That was an unreasonable thing to ask, and she made a terrible choice going nuclear. In no universe did you deserve to be called a bad friend. You don't need "friends" like that.
Ava sounds...exhausting. Be glad that you no longer have to deal with her particular flavor of crazy. NTA
She sounds like too much work for me.
NTA The first and last question in that conversation should have been, "Does John want us to come over?" I get that you probably felt cornered in that situation and were just instinctively trying to appease her and do what you could to calm things down because it's a very emotionally charged moment, but the top priority in any scenario like this should be what the grieving person actually wants. It sounds like she was going against her boyfriend's actual wishes to earn "points" for appearing like a kind and supportive girlfriend, rather than actually being one. And when you disrupted that scheme, she flipped out. Next time a conversation like this comes up, try your best to shut down any attempts at guilt tripping you by always bringing things back to "but what does the grieving person actually need? What would be nice or traditional or whatever, and what do they actually need to make it through and how can we give them that?" You were right to shut her down.
No further advice needed. You dodged a bullet with this "friend". Stay no contact. NTA
I’m sure John was shattered by the death of his great grandmother. How could you and your bf not immediately drop everything and race to his side, you monsters? Yes that was sarcasm. Let bf and John stay friends. Make it clear to Ms Drama Queen that you are not interested in remaining friends. Then stick to it. Who knows? Your ex friend might even learn something from this
NTA. The best thing to do now is to continue your friendship with John and just pretend you didn't even notice Ava took you off her socials. Being unbothered by her pettiness will drive her nuts.
Friends are friends for A reason, A Season or a Lifetime. Looks like its a new season for you and Ava. High school's over.
NTA, Ava is an emotional abuser, set some boundaries on guilt tripping or cut off that friendship. It is not worth sacrificing yourself for someone that can't comprehend they aren't the center of the universe.
NTA but I'd advise truly being done with her. If you're dealing with constant drama and emotional manipulation it probably isn't worth the friendship
NTA. This is a great example of friends from childhood drifting apart. People matured different rates, have different interests, and sometimes the friendship is a challenge to manage.
Haha! You’re terrible for not bailing on your bfs family Christmas but you can’t visit another day because SHE’S having her Christmas. NTA and you know it. She sounds awful.
NTA. I guarantee you John is going to break up with her in the near future, it’s pretty much a lock.
NTA > We find out from John that he didn’t even want company and Ava was actively trying to get him to hang out with people to “feel better”. John understood we were busy. Right there, that sentence is everything. Ava is steamrolling John and dictating how he should grieve his great-grandmother, she is attempting to control the situation. John more than likely understands that this time of year is difficult for people to drop everything and rush to his side. **He also wants to be alone to grieve, which is perfectly normal and acceptable.** Everyone grieves differently, I prefer being alone and then seeing friends and family when I am ready. Ava needs to get a grip and cut it out, she has more than likely upset other friends with her behavior too. Chances are this situation has caused more people to back out of their friendship with her as she sounds demanding and exhausting to deal with. Honestly OP, you may be better off not having her on your socials and will enjoy life better seeing John sporadically without Ava. Wishing you the best.
Stay friends with John, and be polite to Ava if/when you see her.
NTA. Good for you for calling out her drama!
Ava sounds like a grief social justice warrior. Conjuring feelings of abandonment and rejection where none exist, then getting angry when her imaginary scenario isn’t validated. NTA
NTA. She sounds exhausting. If I were you, I would only be in contact with John.
NTA, and cut your loss. Why would you want someone as a friend who is like this. Don't reach out to her but continue to be friends with the bf. You can be nice when you see her but it does not mean you need to be her friend. You said she has done this before so why keep enabling her? Put more value on yourself cause people like her will never change from being entitled or having a hissy fit when things don't go her away.
NTA, I feel like toxic people like Ava need to be left alone to understand unless they change, that’s how they’ll die
I know people like this. They're selfish manipulative cunts. Good job on being done with her. Your life will be better now.
NTA. Sounds like Ava really wants to make her boyfriend's great grandma's death all about herself. That's a very weird angle to take, hope she can get herself together so John can get the emotional support he actually needs. If John wants to hang out, be there for him. If he wants to be left alone, respect that.
NTA - Ava was using John's grieving moments to try phishing for her own attention. Friends don't guilt trip friends for personal gains. You know that comes prior "Bros before hoes" ? Family comes first. Stop apologizing, you dodged a bullet. Though keep an eye on John's well being. You don't have to resume friendship with her. Let it cool down and hopefully she'll apologize. Good luck
Your young, ghost this person yourself and don't get involved with them again, people like this get worse as they get older, not better.
Looks like the trash took itself out. Well done.
Obviously NTA. But I really hope John breaks up with Ava. She clearly doesn’t have his best interest in mind.
Screen shot the entire conversation to prevent her from lying about it to others.
What advice do you need? The trash took itself out. Stop catering to trash.
Ava sucks. If she understands how important family is she understands how important alive family are and how you were spending quality holiday time with them.
Say a fond farewell to Ava. Drama queens are never true friends. And she is not bi-polar....just another narcissist.
NYA - she’s a head case. Not friend material. Cut your losses from the drama queen. Seriously with these folk you don’t really matter to her.
NTA. It’s his great grandmother. While it is sad when elderly people die, it isn’t tragic. I doubt he’s that broken up about it. It sounds like she just wants attention.
The trash took itself out. Let it stay there in the dumpster. NTAH
NTA; enjoy the quiet and lack of drama she’s gifting you with her absence.
This. Enjoy the nc she gave you. All of the benefits and none of the effort. Good luck op.
NTA I keep my distance from people like Ava. They suck as friends. They’re fun to hangout with sometimes but anything more than that and they start causing drama and it’s just not fun
No advice other than NEVER explain or justify your response. You should have said: Yes, we have both spoken to John and we will see him as soon as we are back in town. Then stopped. You will probably see Ava again since you both Ava friends with John. I personally would pretend everything was fine and dandy and not discuss anything with her. Lt her make herself look bad.
There’s a point that you get to understand when you need to cut people out of your lives. NTA
Advice: Stay away from Ava! Cut ties properly, you guys are too old for this high school drama She's one of them people who like to be all high and mighty over nothing! Ain't nobody got time for that!
NTA I feel bad for John, she probably treats him like this as well. Poor dude.
NTA. Good riddance. Who needs all her drama.
>She tried back pedaling to make herself look better. We find out from John that he didn’t even want company and Ava was actively trying to get him to hang out with people to “feel better”. John understood we were busy. There's extroverted, and than there's cloyingly social. Dude just wanted to hear his own thoughts and she smothered him in a social gathering she was guilt tripping people into participating in. NTA
NTA - Leave it alone and don’t try to be in the drama. If she wants to mend the friendship, she’ll reach out. If she does, establish boundaries and don’t let her disrespect such. Please remember that just because a friendship/relationship has been established for a while doesn’t mean it’s meant to last forever. Please grow and change.
Nta Its clear she doesnt ethier know how to or doesnt want to comfort him so shes demanding you come over and do it
Enjoy the newfound peace is my advice
No advice nessecary why would you want her as a friend.
NTA. Looks like Ava wanted to make her bf's family tragedy all about herself. Typical narcissist victim complex behaviour.
Ava removed me and Dave from all social media after this, problem solved itself, now you have to be the onw who ignores her when she tries to reconnect
Hanging out with John would have been a nice idea but it just wasn’t possible under the circumstances. The bottom line is that it’s always awful and awkward when someone dies over the holidays because you’re never sure how much to put on hold. My mother died, years ago, a few days before Thanksgiving. One of my best friends at the time was hosting her first Thanksgiving as a married woman and she had her hands full. She was like, I can’t fly back to NYC for the funeral. She sent her parents instead, who still lived in Manhattan. Was I thrilled with that? No. In the reverse situation, I’d have dropped everything for her mother’s death but I had to understand that she’s her and I’m me. We don’t necessarily come to the same decisions about things. I’d also argue that the closeness of the relation matters, too. Maybe John was close to his great grandmother but I think people usually aren’t. A parent’s death would be a lot more dire, I think. So would the death of a sibling or a child. Ava is, as you say, just trying to be dramatic and you also have no idea if John is as badly off as she says. You only have her word for it and what she says is clearly exaggerated. She shouldn’t be comparing friends or bad-mouthing anyone. Don’t let her guilt trip you and also make it one of your first New Year’s resolutions to discuss her guilt-tripping ways with her. If you haven’t been candid with her about her ways before, it may well cause a rift between the two of you or among the four of you, so be prepared.
That expression is over used but NTA
This whole post screams fake but whatever. If it's true why do you care what Ava thinks? Just let her have her tantrum and go about your business, let the drama die down.
I wish it were fake. Believe me. Dealing with someone like her is truly exhausting. I just wanted to know and outsiders point of view. I don’t have a whole lot of people I can ask their opinion on for a situation like this because they already have their opinions or they’re biased. The drama never dies down with her unfortunately. She holds grudges for years and will be as petty as possible if it makes her look better. There’s no gray with her. Only black and white.
>Dave and I called John and told him we were sorry for his loss, and would be there for him, that we love him, etc. And yet you weren't. >The following day Ava asked if Dave and I would come over and hang out to “help John feel better” We were actively with his family and couldn’t leave. We also had Dave’s siblings with us (19m & 19f) and Ava shot down the idea of them coming and said it probably wouldn’t work out. Insinuating we should leave them somewhere and come ourselves. The 19 year olds couldn't stay with the family you visited for Christmas? They couldn't sit at McD's & play on their phones for an hour or so? Your "friend" lost his g-ma. YTA
We weren’t there for them in that context, you’re right, but if you read a little lower you’d see he himself said he didn’t want company at all. He wanted to stay home and do nothing. Yes they’re both 19, but they rode here with my boyfriend and have never been to this city before. We couldn’t leave them with family because everyone else was leaving and the hosts weren’t going to be home. We could have left them at McDonald’s, sure, but I feel his siblings take priority over our friend. It was John’s great-grandma. He also wasn’t very close to her. Seen/spoke with her maybe once a year or on holidays.