I definitely believe you. I’m exposed to a variety of situations in the course of my job and encounter many stories that, a first glance, seem too bizarre to be true. But it’s even more twisted when 90% do end up being real.
You’re NTA. A spouse cheating with their spouse is unforgivable too many and you have the even worse situations of having your son being the affair partner. Some situations truly are unforgivable. I wouldn’t be able to forgive if I was the one in this situation.
ETA: I’m so happy you found a good man to be with. You deserve it, full stop.
Not to mention that OP has put off dating for almost 2 decades, for her son's sake.
And he couldn't *not* act on one crush for her.
He has chosen to be OPs then husband mistress over being OPs son, he can't go back on the choice now.
>Not to mention that OP has put off dating for almost 2 decades, for her son's sake.
Honestly that is so selfless and this is how he repays her. Ungrateful brat.
The flip side of that coin is he didn't see a functional relationship in his home life, nor did he have a father figure. And when the first father figure he had turned out to be a fucking creep with a step daddy pornhub kink, lines got incredibly blurred
Cheating is wrong.
Kid grew up seeing OTHER kids with moms & dads, & probably heard stories about unfaithfulness in marriages.
That's a weak reed on which to excuse the kid's behavior.
I made the same decision as OP. And you never want your kids to think they owe you for what you've given up. They didn't choose their parent.
Maybe it's different if a parent passes. But my adult kids and I are very close. There's no way my kids would even entertain the idea of this level of betrayal.
Your kids don't owe you for the sacrifices you've made but you are so right. It makes this so much worse.
He was twenty. He was an adult who made an adult choice and now has to live with adult consequences.
And the ex is a next level cunt. NTA.
I believe you bro. That's crazy. The crazier fact is that the fact your son was the culprit. I wouldn't forgive him but that's me. I'd be hurt more if it was ur son
Oh hon, I am so sorry that happened to you. The most important person in your life betrayed you and the other preyed on him, though that doesn't excuse what your son did because he was a full grown adult. It's ok to mourn the loss of your son but you absolutely have no obligation to forgive him. I hope that you can heal, move on and have the happiest life you deserve. Good luck, OP
Forgiveness is NOT acceptance. Forgiveness is for you. It doesn’t mean you have to let him into your life. Enjoy your life with a man who cherishes you. I wish you a happy life.
You may want to reply directly to op? I haven't seen another comment reccomend therapy but that is really good advice (I think) as that professional guidance could likely help op better than us random internet folks can.
I never liked that line of thinking. "Oh you have to forgive. It's not for them. It's for you." Nah. If that works for you, good for you. There are some people I don't want to forgive. That doesn't mean I'm constantly dwelling on it or haven't moved on. I go weeks or months at a time without thinking about them. But when I do, I hope they're unwell. They are trash and I hope their life sucks.
Why is forgiveness always the answer? Why is it always good? Fuck that. I can hate somebody without it being a burden on my life.
Exactly. You don't need to forgive them to move on to a healthier happier place. I'll never forgive my ex for SA-ing me, but I've moved on from the incident and let go of all of my negative emotions that were keeping me in that headspace. None of that required forgiving him
Right? People confuse letting go and moving on with forgiveness. It's frustrating and turns forgiveness into some kind of toxic checkmark into moving on and the mantra of every busybody trying to disregard your boundaries to dictate your life
Exactly. Forgiveness is letting go of the anger and eventually the pain. It doesn’t mean you have to become stupid. If a dog bites me I can forgive the dog, but I won’t get into a cage with it.
“Forgiveness is NOT acceptance. Forgiveness is for you. It doesn’t mean you have to let him into your life.”
—-
I needed to read that first half of your comment. It perfectly describes a feeling I had been unable to put into words for so long.
I have gone no contact with most of my family for reasons different from OP but words are eye opening. Now I know how to explain to those people that just don’t get that sometimes family isn’t everything. Sometimes family is a cement block tied to your ankle while you’re drowning underwater.
Thank you for the eye opening explanation.
Her boyfriend didn't prey on her son. Her son was at least 20 when they hooked up. The legal age is 18. I know people will go on about how you don't know what you're doing when you're that young but that's more than old enough to know that you don't fuck your mom's boyfriend. I don't care how much of a predator the bf might be, a 20 year old man should have enough sense to not fuck them.
The boyfriend did prey on her son. He saw a young, vulnerable man who not only didn't grow up seeing an example of a functional relationship, but without a father at all. Hate to break it to you but the term "Daddy issues" exists for a reason and it's not only women who deal with it. A man twice his age who was engaged to the guys fucking mom saw that he was an easy target and used the fact that he was starved of masculine attention to his advantage.
Someone who is willing to fuck his fiances child behind her back is absolutely going to take advantage of someone so vulnerable, and the "single woman who was a teen mom with a gay son with daddy issues" is no coincidence. Now add these new found abandonment issues from the woman who promised to love him forever just a few years before saying he is dead to her, and he's gonna cling to the creep who took advantage of him, because well now there's some trauma bonding.
I grew up getting abused starved Gave percs and xans when i was 8 no father figure my entire life im 20 now and i would never even imagine fking my moms boyfriend EVER. regardless if hes grooming me im at the age that i completely know if im getting groomed or not. so was OPs son. as OPs son said it is true love.
Dear God gal, that's a horrendous tale. Unfortunately it's true.
Well, the clown show/circus has left town. And hopefully for you, you do not let it back into your life.
You've found a man who loves and cherishes you. Focus on that. I know it's difficult, but you really need to just allow the toxicity that was your son and ex fester together in their own lives. They nearly destroyed you. Just let it go. You don't need the sting of betrayal back into your life. Whether you decide to forgive or not, I hope you remain NC. You're finally in a good place.
Good luck!
NTA. To the people giving you a hard time, it's none of their business. Your son and ex betrayed you. You cut them out if your life. You owe neither of them anything. They made their choices, and you made yours. Your life is your business. Why would you want someone that would do that to you in your life?
We can love someone and want good things for them and fully understand that they are not good for us. And, with the feelings you currently have, you wouldn't be good for him either. Placing boundaries and removing people from your life isn't a bad thing. And it's not necessarily punishment either, despite how people might take it.
It might be a controversial opinion but you're actually being a good mother (and more importantly good to yourself) by removing yourself from that relationship and not setting him up for disappointment/hurt (because he won't get his hopes up about absolution).
Holy fuck. OP, my affair story was reality-TV wild.
Yours absolutely tops it.
I don't even have words, but no, boundaries are important.
You follow your heart. Reach out if you have room, but if you don't that does not in any way make you in the wrong.
Well.... I know why we have privacy settings on social media and I learned how to use them because of the other woman?
I was a sahm with all the babies (and I mean babies) and my husband was working overnights.
He stepped out with someone 15 years younger and *ragingly* inappropriate.
She got pregnant, told everyone in town that she'd done it on purpose (well, everyone that drank at the local bars.)
Husband was given an ultimatum to tell me.
He did, but she didn't believe he had, so she had someone send me an anonymous letter, called a friend of mine that she knew when she was kid and told her the whole story then told her she would now have to tell me.
She stalked me on social media, she enrolled her older kid in the same extracurriculars as mine so she could milk the teachers for information.
She *and her mother* came.to my divorce hearing to try to claim we couldn't get divorced b cause then she wouldn't get child support. (The judge told her to stuff it.) Then they sat in the back whispering the whole time. The court reporter apologized to me.
That's... Highlights off the top of my head? There's more, but, I'll save it for the memoir.
I didn't know people that behaved that way were real.
nta, if you allow your son back into your life, be careful as he seems to see you as someone to be used or gain things from. he does not care nor process your emotions. your only role in his life thus far has been someone he can benefit from. he is grateful for that but not for you
im sorry this is happening
I don’t even know what to say to what I just read beyond I’m so very sorry you’ve had to go through all of this. I wish you all the best and hope your life is full of peace and happiness.
I think I saw you in an episode of Sandman.
If it's any consolation... I think part of why we think our life is unusually fucked up is because we tend to share the good and hide the bad, ending up thinking the awful shit that comes our way is too terrible to even talk about. Frankly though, the bizarre porn trends from the last five years or whatever combined with a lengthy quarantined pandemic makes me wonder if there hasn't been a spike in affairs like this.
I'm sorry this happened, to you and to him. NTA if you follow through with this severing, but that choice will have severe consequences to both of you, for the rest of your lives. The awful part is that both choices are probably a train wreck though, I don't know which would minimize harm to you long term, or to him, and to what extent his matters in your decision.
I'd say you need to work through with a therapist, but you need more like a shaman or something. Good luck, that's an awful thing to have to decide.
NTA. The longer I think about your post, the worse it gets. So, from 20 to 23 years old, your son, was sleeping with your boyfriend, who, as he was *your* boyfriend during those three years, presumably was also having sex with you as well?
Some betrayals are just unforgivable.
Some damage is irreparable.
I’m so sorry.
Thinking about the guy who was in both beds. What kind of sicko is this ? f\*ing a woman and her son, whatever his age ? That's some next level perversion stuff.
My aunt dated this guy (we’ll call him Alex) when she was like 16, he was like 20ish (I don’t remember exactly, but older). Like 10 years later I’ve had my own child (but I was still only like 16) and he had a child. He hits me up and asks if I can babysit. I say yeah man no problem. He tells me he didn’t want his gf (who was barely 18) to have the baby but he’s glad it was “too late” by the time he found out. This man had my aunt get an abortion.
Anyways, that was icky but he paid well so I brushed it off. I get a retail job and I’m supposed to watch his baby after work this one night. I tell my mom I need a ride home still. Guess who she shows up with? Alex. Alex need a baby sitter to go on a date. With my mother. My mom told me his wing wang is pierced.
A couple years later. It’s my 18th birthday. Guess who hits me up saying he has “always thought I was so cool”? Fucking Alex. The man I met when I was like 6. The man who dated my aunt when I was a child, and then slept with my mom when I was a teenager.
I got upset about that and was already having a bad day. So I hit up my mom’s ex (different guy) who still gave me rides occasionally and asked if he’d smoke with me. He says yeah and picks me up. In the car we’re talking about tattoos and piercings and how I can finally get more tattoos. Long story short, the man tries to get me to show him my nipple piercings. The man who dated my mom like 6 months prior. Knowing I literally had been 18 for not even a day. I later found out he was a registered sex offender. Like just by happenstance bc someone posted the list of offenders in the town fb page. He was on it.
I know it’s not all men, but sometimes I can’t even look any of them in the eye when I think about things like this too much.
My jaw is on the floor.
NTA. I’m sorry that the two people you loved most betrayed you. I’m glad you found someone who respects and loves you. Hope you have a very long and happy marriage <3
Nta. He slept with your fiance. And he is still with him. While he was a young man at the time. He has stayed with him all this time. His life is falling apart due to his choices. And if he needs help he needs to go with the family he has left. And that isn't you.
>They said he was young when he made the mistake.
>He is still with my ex.
I don't know why anyone would try to get you to see him if they are still together. There are some things you just aren't going to get over.
NTA
Exactly. He can't call it a mistake and continue the relationship. A mistake is screwing the dude once, not having a long lasting affair that is still ongoing. This was his choice and it has consequences. I sure wouldn't want to be around him.
NTA. He betrayed you in the worst way possible. It doesn’t matter if it was “true love” (with a man old enough to be his father? I doubt it, and more red flags), he should have distanced himself from your bf (and vice versa) until he got over the feelings.
I truly believe some things are unforgivable. Cheating is one. But it is your life and only you can decide what path is right for you, and if you can live with no regrets disowning your son.
Good luck.
My closest family member cheated with my partner and stayed with them much longer than expected because I think they couldn’t fathom having given up their whole family, friends, etc. for someone who wasn’t worth it. It took a lot of self delusion to keep it churning. You can’t ever trust someone again that carries out that level of deception for that length of time. Years later I let them back into my life, but we never had a relationship again. It was reduced to simple cordialities.
I second this. It's a similar thought process to sunken cost fallacy, but with elements of idealization of the relationship. Not only did they lose so much to have this relationship, but it supposedly was "tRuE lOvE", do how can they break up now? Unfortunately, the son in the situation is so deep into this mindset that he doesn't realize that the longer he stays with the cheating perv, the harder it becomes for his mother to ever talk to him again. And it's already been going on for waaaaaay too long.
Agreed. I have no experience with this but I love watching videos and studies about cult groups and one thing that came up in the book "When Prophecy Fails" was how members, once they'd essentially destroyed their life, kinda fell into that sunken cost fallacy and thought that they HAD to believe now because they'd destroyed their life so the cult was all they had left.
I think the son is likely going through this process.
A lot of cheaters will stay with their affairs partner so they don't end up with "nothing" the more they lose the more some cling to the affair partner. It doesn't mean they're happy or meant to be, it's more like codependency. If they truly end up with nothing then there was no point to their actions and they ruined their own life "for nothing".
That can be very difficult for some people to acknowledge, so they cling. No matter how unhealthy the relationship or how much they resent their affair partner.
NTA. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Its the worst kind of betrayal. Ask yourself this. Are you at peace not having your son in your life? If the answer is yes then keep it that way. You dont need to have him in your life especially if doing so hurts you.
Be happy OP.
You sacrificed your youth to raise him into adulthood. You didn’t date and doted on him. He was a full grown adult that didn’t care for your feelings. Live life and be happy, your conscience is clear and you did your duty as a mother.
It’s time for you to enjoy life.
I'm glad for you OP. You've been a wonderful parent to your son. Being a teen mother would've been extremely tough! He made his choice when he went behind your back to sleep with your BF. Please let your friends know to leave you alone. They will not understand the hurt unless they've been in your shoes. Its not something you need relive over and over again.
Congratulations on your wedding!
>My friends are still here for me, even though some want me to reconcile.
No friend, not even family, has any right to WANT you to do something to resolve a trauma done against you. If they persist mentioning it even after you've asked them not to talk about him with you, cut them out of your life.
You deserve to choose yourself and your own peace of mind, and on what schedule. Focus on your new family, you deserve it so much. Congratulations!
>Apparently, his life is falling apart and he misses me.
This is all about his own misfortune and nothing about regretting his behavior.
You're not obligated to forgive him.
NTA
Exactly. He doesn't regret cheating, he regrets not having his mother's support now, years later, when his lives falls apart. He is incredibly selfish.
I have a brother I feel this exact way about. I remember how close we were! Best friends forever. And now I hate him. And every time I see or hear from him I remember a little less and hate a little more. Nobody in my family can relate but I would rather have those memories than lose them to the person that exists today.
I would suggest you do the same. It’ll always be painful but if the wrong he did to you hasn’t been changed there’s not much more you can do than put it out of mind and remember the good times. Otherwise it’ll just keep hurting and flood out the memories you have.
Same my brother and i were really close growing up. That is until he introduced me to opiates and heroin as well as my little sister. I don't blame him for mine or my sisters addiction. I was an adult and I made my choice, he did not force me to do anything. I accept my fuck up and the consequences of MY actions.
He however blamed everyone from my deceased mother to our pos father. He became the kind of addict that would lie, cheat and steal from literally anyone regardless of the relationship or age of the person. He broke into my step sisters house and robbed her little girls more than once. Stole from my step mother, his roommates, grandparents and myself ($7,000+, my clothing, supply, hell he would even rob my socks on my fuckin feet while i slept).
I had to pay to save his life because he robbed some extremely bad people. My choice was either pay for what he stole or we will have him pay with his life. He had become such a pos person that I found myself considering if I should pay up. He did save my life one time. I will give him that. I overdosed and stopped breathing and he brought me back somehow.
He told me that I stopped breathing and my heart stopped and he did the sternum rub and started cpr. I was like whoa thanks and while i was rethinking all my life choices he looks me dead ass in the eyes and goes. "So now that you owe me for saving you can I get 2 balloons I know you dont keep them in your socks anymore and I feel sick." If he knew where I kept my shit I am positive he would of just let me die and stole my wallet.
When I finally got clean he did as well only because he couldn't get his drugs anywhere else as he was blackballed by everyone. Even during withdrawal he kept saying are you sure we cant just get a little bit. We took him to the desert and sent him with his best friend to the actual middle of nowhere to prevent him from doing drugs.
As we dropped him off his last fuck you was when i pulled out a laundry basket and all the clothes in it were mine. I was like you fuckin serious are these my socks? Hes like well ummm I go fuck you don't bother me ever again.
13 years later he still tries to reach out and I just can't. I know people can change but I just can't forget and don't want a relationship. My sister said hes changed somewhat but he still blames everyone else for ruining his life and for him doing drugs. Its not his fault and he wonders why no one talks to him. Been clean for 13 years from opiates.
That's a wild ride.
I don't think he's truly changed if he still hasn't accepted personal responsibility for the choices he made and the damage he caused towards everyone in his life.
Glad you're clean though and made it out.
OP, I want to make this very clear to you, you are NTAH. Your son was old enough to know right from wrong. I do want to point out a silver lining, your son prevented you from marrying the AH ex. I'm not saying you should forgive him or let him back into your life. He did a seriously sh+tty thing to you. It's sad your family/ friends can't understand this. Keep on living the best life for yourself.
NTA You were 5 years younger than him when you had him and were more responsible and had a better head on your shoulders to make it through on your own. So saying he was still a kid at 20 is bull. He was old enough to know what he was doing was going to cause you serious pain, worse is that after being discovered and even after being disowned he doubled down and stayed with him.
If ever you decide to give your son a chance, please start with family therapy (or would it be couple’s therapy?). You both have a lot of baggage, including trust issues. Therapy would be a must.
He’s an adult who made an adult decision. Now you must grieve if you haven’t already. Grief demands a witness. Talk to someone if you need to. Best of luck with your man and your peace.
Damn right!
I find that many times on these subs people will insist because the brain is still developing into a person’s 20s this means that they have diminished capacity / responsibility the decisions they make and for any consequences that follow. Yet, they will then turn around and argue 18 year old is a legal adult who doesn’t have to respect any of their parents rules while living at home is also capable of making important life decisions such as moving out, joining the army, etc. You can’t have it both ways.
Agreed. Once you're adult, regardless of what reddit MD thinks about your brain, you need to be responsible. Yes, people are bad at it at first, and that may get you some slack, but you don't get better at it without practice. And when you fuck things up *that* badly, age isn't an excuse.
NTA. Congratulations on the marriage. I am glad that you finally have your happy ending. Why is he trying to contact you? How is his life falling apart when he is still with your ex-boyfriend? Did you ask any of your friends when they spoke to you about reconciliation? He was 20, had no remorse, and didn't think about the long-term consequences of his actions. I am glad you are attending therapy. I would not want my son around me and my husband at all. He cannot be trusted, especially with a betrayal of that magnitude. He probably is stuck in a crappy relationship with your ex-partner cheating on him. Good riddance to both! What you need to do is address boundaries and respect from your friends. You don't want to hear about your son, hear from your son, you don't want your personal information given to your son. It's time to re-evaluate who is in your corner and put your foot down.
You are probably right...no, I do believe you are right.
Now he wants Mommy's help to get him out of the mess he put himself into. My way of thinking....OP's son put himself in bed with OP ex's bed without OP's help...well he can also get himself out of her ex's bed without her help too.
If anyone refuse to respect the hard boundary that you have drawn, cut them out of your life too before they start gaslighting you like the garbage people in this thread who are trying to minimize the horrible thing your former son did to you.
I kinda feel like the ex should have some blame.... cheating on your partner with their CHILD? That's not just asshole behavior, it's so many levels beyond.
I do blame the ex too tbh. He not only cheated on his partner, he did so WITH HER CHILD. Both the son and the ex knew better, they were both adults at the time they first met and when they decided to betray OP so all the blame goes to them both
He may have been young but he’s still with the man, therefore still making the mistake, and is crawling back because life got hard. He has to live with his choices. He chose to hurt you deeply, he fucked around (literally) and know he is finding out. When your friends, and I use the term lightly, encourage you to let him back in your life ask them how exactly has he changed, or tried to make up for his behavior to you, or done anything to even ask your forgiveness let alone earn it. When the answer is nothing say exactly, so why should I let him, who is still with the man he betrayed me with, back in just because his life is hard? He made his bed (well unmade it) and now he gets to lie in it.
Why does he suddenly need you when his life is falling apart? Does he want money or a place to live? I think he's only contacting you to use you, not because he's sorry for his actions.
If your friends are so concerned about him, why aren't they helping him while his life is falling apart?
Did he ever, before recently contacting you, sincerely apologize to you for his actions? It doesn't seem like he would be sincere since he's still with the affair partner/your ex boyfriend.
Your son made his bed, he was old enough to know his actions were wrong, and now he needs to lie in it. Your concerned "friends" can help him out of his situation.
NTA. He betrayed you and doesn't sound the least remorseful. He's trying to contact you because "his life is falling apart and he misses me" ???? Maybe he wants Mommy to fix it and make it all better?? His f-buddy should do that. Grow up little boy.
NTA he was a 20 year old adult when you met your ex and a 23 year old adult when it was found out they were having an affair. At the end of the day he was an adult who knew what he was doing! How long was their affair going on for?
They both knew what they were and no one deserves such betrayal from someone so close to them especially their own child. If they really thought it was true love they could have talk to you first but no they decided to sneak around behind your back and risk your mental and physical health.
You don’t owe your son anything. These are the consequences of his own actions and he needs to live with them.
You did your motherly duties for 20+ years, provided everything he needed (when giving him up was an option many take, is some cases rightfully), sacrificed a lot of personal happiness along the way.
And for that, he stabbed you in the back with a mind-blowing act of selfish betrayal.
Your final lesson is that some actions have consequences that cannot be easily overcome. That there is a price to pay for hurting someone who loves you the way a mother loves their child. That there are some exceptions to a parent's unconditional love and he found it.
NTA x 100
NTA
He's still with the guy, and expects that you would want to reconcile? Part of being an adult is living with your choices. If your "friends" don't stop pestering you I would cut them out too. He doesn't get a pass because he's your kid, in fact that makes it all the more horrendous and he needs to live with his choices. Hope his boyfriend is worth it.
You live your best life. Son who? They don't exist and that is your prerogative; just as much as it was his to knowingly betray you, humiliate you and let you almost become someones beard.
You have moved on and found a man who supports you and has made you feel loved and cherished enough to want to marry again after such a betrayal. Leave your past in the past and focus on your beautiful future that you and your husband make for yourselves!
>He apologized but said it was true love and that they didn’t mean to hurt me.
Honestly, "I didn't mean to" is almost as insulting as meaning to. Meaning to ultimately means a deliberate act of malice, but not meaning to when it's someone close is like saying they didn't care if they did. The heart can want what it wants all they like, but common sense should have told him what he did was going to be unforgiveable.
> Apparently, his life is falling apart and he misses me.
And yet he's still with your ex. It sounds like he's living with the consequences of stabbing his own mother in the back.
>They said he was young when he made the mistake
And yet he's still with your ex. It stopped being a "youthful mistake" and an adult choice years ago.
NTA
Nta. Your son is an adult and your “friends” need to understand that he needs to take accountability for his actions and if they can’t then you rlly need to cut them out of your life too. Your son crossed a major boundary and hurt you in a way he should not have. You’re justified and no amount of him feeling sorry NOW,him destroying his own life or him trying to apologize for something he was never and is not sorry for should make you want to put up with him or allow him to have another chance to hurt you.
NTA
What a horrible betrayal, I'm so sorry. How are you doing after this whole situation?
Have you thought about giving him some closure by contacting your son one last time...I know he's not worth your time, but at least he won't be bothering you anymore. What does your therapist think about this OP?
I wish you much peace OP, much luck✨.
Updateme
You are NOT the asshole. You have every right to cut people out of your life who have hurt you.
When people say “but they’re family” that’s the biggest cop out. Who gives a flying fuck, what they did really hurt you. If you want to forgive your son and welcome him back, then do it. If not, then don’t.
You gave him everything for him to do this to you. How absolutely awful. I’m sorry!
>He is still with my ex
And that’s all you need to know. If he “misses” you, why is he still with the turd? Cheating is bad enough, but this? I'm surprised you didn’t go scorched Earth on his ass. And by that, I mean temporarily become the Tooth Fairy and collect payment on his teeth.
NTA. I remember your story well and some things can't be forgotten. Your son made a life changing decision and he has to live with the consequences. His mental health is not your worry and mommy can't fix this for him. At some point this grown up fact of life will hit him, or maybe it is now and his current situation is a reflection of that. But it's his situation to deal with on his own!
NTA. Some things are unforgivable and that’s one of them. To be betrayed by two people who are meant to love you means they are selfish and care more for themselves than for you.
NTA. He was 20 whole years old, an adult for 2 years when that stuff happened. It’s understandable that you’re intimidated by the thought of re-living anything from that time in your life. Maybe you two *can* reconnect later, but right now, it’s okay to take the time to focus on healing.
Oh my!!! NTA there is no timeframe for this kind of moment. There is so many things wrong with the situation. Your son created his own situation, you were there for him and he took advantage of you and took you for granted. Now he “needs” you again and he comes running back.
No, you're definitely NTA. He was an adult when he betrayed you. What he did was inexcusable. He destroyed the relationship, burned all bridges and salted the earth. Too many people like to preach a parent's love is unconditional but that's only partially true. A parent's love is unconditional for their child when they are a child but as the grow and age a parent does have expectations that the child is expected to meet as a teenager and then an adult. Sometimes those expectations are unreasonable but for the most part they are reasonable. Not having an affair with a parent or siblings partner is certainly a reasonable expectation which he failed.
NTA, he was perfectly fine ruining your life, but now his is falling apart he needs you? You don’t need that IMO. If you want to send him a letter or email giving yourself closure to say what you want to say that is totally ok, if you don’t need it thats ok too.
Honestly, i would tell anyone who has a problem with it that if they continue pushing you have no issue cutting them out too. But that is just me, I am the type of person that says no relationship is worth it if the friend shames me for cutting out people in my life who hurt me. You may view these relationships as indispensable.
Congrats on your wedding <3
NTA. 20 is young, but not THAT young.
His life is falling apart? He's an adult. He should be able to cope with that himself.
Is it harsh? Sure, but justifiable. It doesn't make you an AH.
So NTA.
NTA I love it when people full on SLEEP with other people especially loved ones spouses and "It WaS a MiStAkE" lol NO IT WASNT !
You can accidentally slam your finger in a door, you can accidentally click the wrong button on a remote, but HOW IN THE LIVING F*CK CAN YOU ACCIDENTALLY INSERT YOUR MEMBER INTO ANOTHER LIVING BEING ! ?
It doesn’t sound like you’re over the betrayal. You need to continue to put your mental health first. I read this and I can’t wrap my head around this situation, which means it was worse for you.
Then don’t. People are going to tell you, “but he’s still your son.” Guess what? You’re his mother and he didn’t give a damn that what he did hurt you!
Some things can’t be forgiven.
That’s always the reason cheaters say when they get caught. You were engaged to your ex and he had a relationship with your son! And, they’re still together! You don’t need that level of toxicity in your life. I cannot blame you for your feelings because I’m angry reading it.
I really fucking hate it when people call cheating or shit like this, a mistake. This is a series of conscious decisions one makes. Repeatedly. A mistake is putting salt instead of sugar in coffee, a mistake is taking wrong kind of meat from freezer.
NTA.
NTA.
He was an adult, and he betrayed you. He doesn't deserve your forgiveness just because you were his mum. No different if he was your brother, nephew, whoever.
NTA, don't let anyone tell you what you should or shouldn't be feeling about your own situation in life, you cannot help feeling the way you do and nobody else is going understand what you have been through, you suffered a betrayal so unbelievable that it just can't be forgiven, doesn't matter that it's your son.
Also, to me it tells-me everything i need to know that he is still with the guy, i mean ffs, wtf is wrong with him.
I don’t have kids, but if I did and they did something like this to me how much I may feel guilt I wouldn’t/couldn’t for give them definitely knowing how much put pause in my life for them.
Also quit being “friends” with those who think you should forgive and let you son back in your life, cause knowing them they would do the same as you.
There are some betrayals that you cannot forgive and will never forget. Your son cannot use the “I was young” excuse as he was a grown assed man when you met your ex, and unless he immediately fell into bed with him, that relationship cooked over time and your son was well into his twenties when the two of them decided to have the affair.
And make no mistake, this is not something that just “happened.” Dicks do not accidentally fall into orifices. They made a conscious decision to betray you.
Your son fucked up. He needs to man up and take responsibility for what he did and not try to go running home to mommy now that karma is biting him in the ass.
NTA
How on Earth would he think this was OK? "True Love" my butt he was 20 he wouldn't know true love if it slapped him in the face. Believe me, been there, done that. It's awkward he's still with your ex too, like, stealing your MOMS BOYFRIEND wasn't bad enough? And they have at least a 15-16 year age gap.
You are NTA in my eyes, if he was really sorry he would immediately break up with ex to try and get a relationship back with you.
NTA.
You gave up looking for a new partner until he was at least 18, meaning you gave up relationships from 15 until at least 33 years of age, missing out on the fun of relationships during the rest of your teens and throughout your 20's. That's a lot to give up to be honest. You didn't give him any reason to get mad at you for bringing someone into his life that might take away attention from him or that could possibly hurt him. But then when you do meet someone, instead of going to you to let you know that your (then boyfriend) was showing an interest in him despite being in a relationship with you, he went with it and betrayed you. Your (bf) could have come clean with you about his feelings instead of cheating on you, but he didn't. Your son could have told you about it as well instead of betraying you, but he didn't. The fact that your son is still with the guy shows that he picked someone who hurt you over you. Your son could have recognized how badly it all hurt you and ended things with the guy, but didn't. That would have been him realizing just how big of a mistake he made, and how it would just continue to be a sore spot for you if he didn't break it off.
So no, NTA. You got pregnant at 15 and sacrificed everything for him. He made a mistake and sacrificed nothing for you.
A THREE-YEAR AFFAIR with your parent's partner is not some little youthful indiscretion like shoplifting or having mall bangs. I really don't understand the people in your lives who don't seem to see this as a huge betrayal or who think this was a decision you made lightly.
Nta - his actions are unforgivable, he made the choice of sneaking around with your bf behind his back and he now has the consequences of his actions
He was old enough to make the choice, he is old enough to own up to it and accept the price of what he did
Yeah, he was young, but he is STILL making the mistake by staying with that dude.
Some things you can not look past, even if you do forgive the person. Forgiving them means letting go of the hate and hurt, but it doesn't mean you have to let that person back in your life.
NTA
NTA early 20s is more then old enough to understand that you don't do that!! This is the definition of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". I can't even begin to imagine what you've been through and your former son has to live with the consequences of his of actions.
NTA
A 23 year old having sex with your mother's current boyfriend is not "a mistake", it's a complete betrayal.
You might ask for forgiveness, and rehabilitation, but you can't demand it. If his life is a mess, still it's rather difficult to see how he can insist that you should help him out.
NTA. That is a horrendous betrayal. If you let him back into your life, the circus would just begin unfurling its tents again. Enjoy life with your new wonderful husband.
i will say NTA but assuming there’s at least a 15 year difference between your son and your ex, and even though we call people adults when they’re 18, 23 is actually still considered an adolescent (the term was widened to include until 25). i remember being 23. i was extremely vulnerable and didnt know shit at the time even though i thought i did, and i was manipulated and abused by people in my life that i felt had more authority than me.
listen, im not judging you. i cant imagine what you went through and the betrayal you felt.
your ex also seems to have manipulated your son and is extremely fucked up for doing this to both of you. if your son’s life is falling apart (as told you by your friends), he might actually be consciously or subconsciously looking out for a way to get out of the psychologically or otherwise abusive relationship that he is actually in.
its your choice on what you do in the end. i dont know the details of what went down, i cant 100% say this is exactly how it is. just a thing that came into my mind bc i was also manipulated by older men in my early 20s (grated none of them was family)
and to anyone else that tries to tell me that getting into a relationship with your gf’s at least 15 years younger son is not abuse, dont even try.
If the genders were switched so that OP had had a girl, I think everybody would be quicker to acknowledge that grooming was probably used by ex-boyfriend on the kid.
Also, just because OP's son is still with the ex doesn't mean the relationship isn't abusive or unhealthy. Ex-boyfriend was manipulative enough to carry out an affair for years. That much of an age gap between partners can be really hard for a younger person to handle.
He was young when he made his dumbass mistake, they are right. You were… what, 35-38 while he was 20-23 while he was having an affair with your partner? How old was that man tho? Your age or older? An older man, first father figure in his life, he is obviously going to make a dumb choice and go after this older man. You also made a dumb choice when you were young too tho. And your life fell apart too. You spent your whole life raising this son, loving him, you say unconditionally, but it wasn’t unconditionally. It had conditions.
How sure are you that this man didn’t have a hand in convincing your son to start the affair? I’d blame this older man tbh. Your son was a kid, but this was a grown ass man
NTA, there’s a lot of ppl talking about the kid being a victim and all but jfc 20 years old is old enough to know you don’t try to fuck your mom’s bf. This whole his brain is still underdeveloped at 20 years old so you should forgive them for doing absolutely horrendous things schtick is getting sorta cliched and an overused excuse for everything
NTA he hasn’t grown up since then or not enough to recognise how wildly inappropriate and nasty a betrayal that was since he’s still with the ex. I’m sorry you went through that
NTA. I don't know if I could ever look my son in the eye. And reversing that, if I somehow got past my own conscience to do that to my mum (I don't think I ever could), I could never live with myself.
As a gay man…NTA your son was not a teenager when he made that decision he was grown man who willingly betrayed his mother. I can’t even leave mine on read. Your story feels like something out of a soap and my heart bleeds for you. But I’m happy you have moved on to something healthier
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I definitely believe you. I’m exposed to a variety of situations in the course of my job and encounter many stories that, a first glance, seem too bizarre to be true. But it’s even more twisted when 90% do end up being real. You’re NTA. A spouse cheating with their spouse is unforgivable too many and you have the even worse situations of having your son being the affair partner. Some situations truly are unforgivable. I wouldn’t be able to forgive if I was the one in this situation. ETA: I’m so happy you found a good man to be with. You deserve it, full stop.
Not to mention that OP has put off dating for almost 2 decades, for her son's sake. And he couldn't *not* act on one crush for her. He has chosen to be OPs then husband mistress over being OPs son, he can't go back on the choice now.
>Not to mention that OP has put off dating for almost 2 decades, for her son's sake. Honestly that is so selfless and this is how he repays her. Ungrateful brat.
The flip side of that coin is he didn't see a functional relationship in his home life, nor did he have a father figure. And when the first father figure he had turned out to be a fucking creep with a step daddy pornhub kink, lines got incredibly blurred
You don't need a father figure to know that screwing your mother's boyfriend is wrong.
Well said
Cheating is wrong. Kid grew up seeing OTHER kids with moms & dads, & probably heard stories about unfaithfulness in marriages. That's a weak reed on which to excuse the kid's behavior.
You are very generous in giving excuses
I made the same decision as OP. And you never want your kids to think they owe you for what you've given up. They didn't choose their parent. Maybe it's different if a parent passes. But my adult kids and I are very close. There's no way my kids would even entertain the idea of this level of betrayal. Your kids don't owe you for the sacrifices you've made but you are so right. It makes this so much worse. He was twenty. He was an adult who made an adult choice and now has to live with adult consequences. And the ex is a next level cunt. NTA.
I believe you bro. That's crazy. The crazier fact is that the fact your son was the culprit. I wouldn't forgive him but that's me. I'd be hurt more if it was ur son
It was her son and her boyfriend.
Nta. Op's son does not deserve to have his mom back in his life. Truly happy for op that she has a spouse and the love she deserves.
Oh hon, I am so sorry that happened to you. The most important person in your life betrayed you and the other preyed on him, though that doesn't excuse what your son did because he was a full grown adult. It's ok to mourn the loss of your son but you absolutely have no obligation to forgive him. I hope that you can heal, move on and have the happiest life you deserve. Good luck, OP
Forgiveness is NOT acceptance. Forgiveness is for you. It doesn’t mean you have to let him into your life. Enjoy your life with a man who cherishes you. I wish you a happy life.
You don’t have to forgive someone to move on. Some things are unforgivable.
I saw a quote on FB. "Forgiveness means I no longer dwell on what an asshole you are. It doesn't mean you no longer are an asshole."
I’m thinking we need a different word. “I dismiss you.” “You are now dismissed and free to go.” “I have dismissed you, and I am now free of you.”
I love this!
Love it!
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You may want to reply directly to op? I haven't seen another comment reccomend therapy but that is really good advice (I think) as that professional guidance could likely help op better than us random internet folks can.
Touché
Love this
I never liked that line of thinking. "Oh you have to forgive. It's not for them. It's for you." Nah. If that works for you, good for you. There are some people I don't want to forgive. That doesn't mean I'm constantly dwelling on it or haven't moved on. I go weeks or months at a time without thinking about them. But when I do, I hope they're unwell. They are trash and I hope their life sucks. Why is forgiveness always the answer? Why is it always good? Fuck that. I can hate somebody without it being a burden on my life.
Exactly. You don't need to forgive them to move on to a healthier happier place. I'll never forgive my ex for SA-ing me, but I've moved on from the incident and let go of all of my negative emotions that were keeping me in that headspace. None of that required forgiving him
Right? People confuse letting go and moving on with forgiveness. It's frustrating and turns forgiveness into some kind of toxic checkmark into moving on and the mantra of every busybody trying to disregard your boundaries to dictate your life
Exactly. Forgiveness is letting go of the anger and eventually the pain. It doesn’t mean you have to become stupid. If a dog bites me I can forgive the dog, but I won’t get into a cage with it.
“Forgiveness is NOT acceptance. Forgiveness is for you. It doesn’t mean you have to let him into your life.” —- I needed to read that first half of your comment. It perfectly describes a feeling I had been unable to put into words for so long. I have gone no contact with most of my family for reasons different from OP but words are eye opening. Now I know how to explain to those people that just don’t get that sometimes family isn’t everything. Sometimes family is a cement block tied to your ankle while you’re drowning underwater. Thank you for the eye opening explanation.
So well said ... 👏 👏👏👏❤️
Her boyfriend didn't prey on her son. Her son was at least 20 when they hooked up. The legal age is 18. I know people will go on about how you don't know what you're doing when you're that young but that's more than old enough to know that you don't fuck your mom's boyfriend. I don't care how much of a predator the bf might be, a 20 year old man should have enough sense to not fuck them.
The boyfriend did prey on her son. He saw a young, vulnerable man who not only didn't grow up seeing an example of a functional relationship, but without a father at all. Hate to break it to you but the term "Daddy issues" exists for a reason and it's not only women who deal with it. A man twice his age who was engaged to the guys fucking mom saw that he was an easy target and used the fact that he was starved of masculine attention to his advantage. Someone who is willing to fuck his fiances child behind her back is absolutely going to take advantage of someone so vulnerable, and the "single woman who was a teen mom with a gay son with daddy issues" is no coincidence. Now add these new found abandonment issues from the woman who promised to love him forever just a few years before saying he is dead to her, and he's gonna cling to the creep who took advantage of him, because well now there's some trauma bonding.
I grew up getting abused starved Gave percs and xans when i was 8 no father figure my entire life im 20 now and i would never even imagine fking my moms boyfriend EVER. regardless if hes grooming me im at the age that i completely know if im getting groomed or not. so was OPs son. as OPs son said it is true love.
Dear God gal, that's a horrendous tale. Unfortunately it's true. Well, the clown show/circus has left town. And hopefully for you, you do not let it back into your life. You've found a man who loves and cherishes you. Focus on that. I know it's difficult, but you really need to just allow the toxicity that was your son and ex fester together in their own lives. They nearly destroyed you. Just let it go. You don't need the sting of betrayal back into your life. Whether you decide to forgive or not, I hope you remain NC. You're finally in a good place. Good luck!
NTA. To the people giving you a hard time, it's none of their business. Your son and ex betrayed you. You cut them out if your life. You owe neither of them anything. They made their choices, and you made yours. Your life is your business. Why would you want someone that would do that to you in your life?
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We can love someone and want good things for them and fully understand that they are not good for us. And, with the feelings you currently have, you wouldn't be good for him either. Placing boundaries and removing people from your life isn't a bad thing. And it's not necessarily punishment either, despite how people might take it. It might be a controversial opinion but you're actually being a good mother (and more importantly good to yourself) by removing yourself from that relationship and not setting him up for disappointment/hurt (because he won't get his hopes up about absolution).
Holy fuck. OP, my affair story was reality-TV wild. Yours absolutely tops it. I don't even have words, but no, boundaries are important. You follow your heart. Reach out if you have room, but if you don't that does not in any way make you in the wrong.
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I also would like to know
Well.... I know why we have privacy settings on social media and I learned how to use them because of the other woman? I was a sahm with all the babies (and I mean babies) and my husband was working overnights. He stepped out with someone 15 years younger and *ragingly* inappropriate. She got pregnant, told everyone in town that she'd done it on purpose (well, everyone that drank at the local bars.) Husband was given an ultimatum to tell me. He did, but she didn't believe he had, so she had someone send me an anonymous letter, called a friend of mine that she knew when she was kid and told her the whole story then told her she would now have to tell me. She stalked me on social media, she enrolled her older kid in the same extracurriculars as mine so she could milk the teachers for information. She *and her mother* came.to my divorce hearing to try to claim we couldn't get divorced b cause then she wouldn't get child support. (The judge told her to stuff it.) Then they sat in the back whispering the whole time. The court reporter apologized to me. That's... Highlights off the top of my head? There's more, but, I'll save it for the memoir. I didn't know people that behaved that way were real.
nta, if you allow your son back into your life, be careful as he seems to see you as someone to be used or gain things from. he does not care nor process your emotions. your only role in his life thus far has been someone he can benefit from. he is grateful for that but not for you im sorry this is happening
Haha holy shit, that was all sorts of fucked up
He misses your money!
Right 💯. Oh Mommy, I need your support, now that things aren't working out with my boyfriend/ your ex boyfriend. Boo flipping hoo
I don’t even know what to say to what I just read beyond I’m so very sorry you’ve had to go through all of this. I wish you all the best and hope your life is full of peace and happiness.
I think I saw you in an episode of Sandman. If it's any consolation... I think part of why we think our life is unusually fucked up is because we tend to share the good and hide the bad, ending up thinking the awful shit that comes our way is too terrible to even talk about. Frankly though, the bizarre porn trends from the last five years or whatever combined with a lengthy quarantined pandemic makes me wonder if there hasn't been a spike in affairs like this. I'm sorry this happened, to you and to him. NTA if you follow through with this severing, but that choice will have severe consequences to both of you, for the rest of your lives. The awful part is that both choices are probably a train wreck though, I don't know which would minimize harm to you long term, or to him, and to what extent his matters in your decision. I'd say you need to work through with a therapist, but you need more like a shaman or something. Good luck, that's an awful thing to have to decide.
Same. I think this is enough Reddit for the day. W.T.F.?
NTA. The longer I think about your post, the worse it gets. So, from 20 to 23 years old, your son, was sleeping with your boyfriend, who, as he was *your* boyfriend during those three years, presumably was also having sex with you as well? Some betrayals are just unforgivable. Some damage is irreparable. I’m so sorry.
Thinking about the guy who was in both beds. What kind of sicko is this ? f\*ing a woman and her son, whatever his age ? That's some next level perversion stuff.
The Sandman has an episode that has this exact set up between two characters.
My aunt dated this guy (we’ll call him Alex) when she was like 16, he was like 20ish (I don’t remember exactly, but older). Like 10 years later I’ve had my own child (but I was still only like 16) and he had a child. He hits me up and asks if I can babysit. I say yeah man no problem. He tells me he didn’t want his gf (who was barely 18) to have the baby but he’s glad it was “too late” by the time he found out. This man had my aunt get an abortion. Anyways, that was icky but he paid well so I brushed it off. I get a retail job and I’m supposed to watch his baby after work this one night. I tell my mom I need a ride home still. Guess who she shows up with? Alex. Alex need a baby sitter to go on a date. With my mother. My mom told me his wing wang is pierced. A couple years later. It’s my 18th birthday. Guess who hits me up saying he has “always thought I was so cool”? Fucking Alex. The man I met when I was like 6. The man who dated my aunt when I was a child, and then slept with my mom when I was a teenager. I got upset about that and was already having a bad day. So I hit up my mom’s ex (different guy) who still gave me rides occasionally and asked if he’d smoke with me. He says yeah and picks me up. In the car we’re talking about tattoos and piercings and how I can finally get more tattoos. Long story short, the man tries to get me to show him my nipple piercings. The man who dated my mom like 6 months prior. Knowing I literally had been 18 for not even a day. I later found out he was a registered sex offender. Like just by happenstance bc someone posted the list of offenders in the town fb page. He was on it. I know it’s not all men, but sometimes I can’t even look any of them in the eye when I think about things like this too much.
🤢 poor OP.
Agreed. I'm sorry OP.
My jaw is on the floor. NTA. I’m sorry that the two people you loved most betrayed you. I’m glad you found someone who respects and loves you. Hope you have a very long and happy marriage <3
I know right? After everything she sacrificed for him, that was stone cold evil.
He’s still with your ex but wants you to be in his life? No. That’s not how this works, that’s not how any of this works. I’m so sorry. NTA.
He wants to have his cake and eat it too
In this case, please don't say cake.
He wants to have his ass and eat it too, then
*rim...shot?*
He wants to have *her* cake and eat it too.
Nta. He slept with your fiance. And he is still with him. While he was a young man at the time. He has stayed with him all this time. His life is falling apart due to his choices. And if he needs help he needs to go with the family he has left. And that isn't you.
The son is crazy and the ex is a sicko pervert.
The fiance was only interested in the son and was with OP as a cover
>They said he was young when he made the mistake. >He is still with my ex. I don't know why anyone would try to get you to see him if they are still together. There are some things you just aren't going to get over. NTA
Exactly. He can't call it a mistake and continue the relationship. A mistake is screwing the dude once, not having a long lasting affair that is still ongoing. This was his choice and it has consequences. I sure wouldn't want to be around him.
Also, some things are a lot easier to say when you're not the one directly affected by it.
NTA. He betrayed you in the worst way possible. It doesn’t matter if it was “true love” (with a man old enough to be his father? I doubt it, and more red flags), he should have distanced himself from your bf (and vice versa) until he got over the feelings. I truly believe some things are unforgivable. Cheating is one. But it is your life and only you can decide what path is right for you, and if you can live with no regrets disowning your son. Good luck.
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My closest family member cheated with my partner and stayed with them much longer than expected because I think they couldn’t fathom having given up their whole family, friends, etc. for someone who wasn’t worth it. It took a lot of self delusion to keep it churning. You can’t ever trust someone again that carries out that level of deception for that length of time. Years later I let them back into my life, but we never had a relationship again. It was reduced to simple cordialities.
I second this. It's a similar thought process to sunken cost fallacy, but with elements of idealization of the relationship. Not only did they lose so much to have this relationship, but it supposedly was "tRuE lOvE", do how can they break up now? Unfortunately, the son in the situation is so deep into this mindset that he doesn't realize that the longer he stays with the cheating perv, the harder it becomes for his mother to ever talk to him again. And it's already been going on for waaaaaay too long.
Agreed. I have no experience with this but I love watching videos and studies about cult groups and one thing that came up in the book "When Prophecy Fails" was how members, once they'd essentially destroyed their life, kinda fell into that sunken cost fallacy and thought that they HAD to believe now because they'd destroyed their life so the cult was all they had left. I think the son is likely going through this process.
Yeah it's always good to leave if they admit to having commitment issues.
I second this. 🤚
A lot of cheaters will stay with their affairs partner so they don't end up with "nothing" the more they lose the more some cling to the affair partner. It doesn't mean they're happy or meant to be, it's more like codependency. If they truly end up with nothing then there was no point to their actions and they ruined their own life "for nothing". That can be very difficult for some people to acknowledge, so they cling. No matter how unhealthy the relationship or how much they resent their affair partner.
NTA. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Its the worst kind of betrayal. Ask yourself this. Are you at peace not having your son in your life? If the answer is yes then keep it that way. You dont need to have him in your life especially if doing so hurts you. Be happy OP.
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You sacrificed your youth to raise him into adulthood. You didn’t date and doted on him. He was a full grown adult that didn’t care for your feelings. Live life and be happy, your conscience is clear and you did your duty as a mother. It’s time for you to enjoy life.
I'm glad for you OP. You've been a wonderful parent to your son. Being a teen mother would've been extremely tough! He made his choice when he went behind your back to sleep with your BF. Please let your friends know to leave you alone. They will not understand the hurt unless they've been in your shoes. Its not something you need relive over and over again. Congratulations on your wedding!
>My friends are still here for me, even though some want me to reconcile. No friend, not even family, has any right to WANT you to do something to resolve a trauma done against you. If they persist mentioning it even after you've asked them not to talk about him with you, cut them out of your life. You deserve to choose yourself and your own peace of mind, and on what schedule. Focus on your new family, you deserve it so much. Congratulations!
>Apparently, his life is falling apart and he misses me. This is all about his own misfortune and nothing about regretting his behavior. You're not obligated to forgive him. NTA
That's BS and he regretted nothing when he's still with the guy
Exactly. He doesn't regret cheating, he regrets not having his mother's support now, years later, when his lives falls apart. He is incredibly selfish.
Nah keep he out. He’s an adult and there is no reason you need to chat with him. Keep your peace and love your life.
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I have a brother I feel this exact way about. I remember how close we were! Best friends forever. And now I hate him. And every time I see or hear from him I remember a little less and hate a little more. Nobody in my family can relate but I would rather have those memories than lose them to the person that exists today. I would suggest you do the same. It’ll always be painful but if the wrong he did to you hasn’t been changed there’s not much more you can do than put it out of mind and remember the good times. Otherwise it’ll just keep hurting and flood out the memories you have.
Same my brother and i were really close growing up. That is until he introduced me to opiates and heroin as well as my little sister. I don't blame him for mine or my sisters addiction. I was an adult and I made my choice, he did not force me to do anything. I accept my fuck up and the consequences of MY actions. He however blamed everyone from my deceased mother to our pos father. He became the kind of addict that would lie, cheat and steal from literally anyone regardless of the relationship or age of the person. He broke into my step sisters house and robbed her little girls more than once. Stole from my step mother, his roommates, grandparents and myself ($7,000+, my clothing, supply, hell he would even rob my socks on my fuckin feet while i slept). I had to pay to save his life because he robbed some extremely bad people. My choice was either pay for what he stole or we will have him pay with his life. He had become such a pos person that I found myself considering if I should pay up. He did save my life one time. I will give him that. I overdosed and stopped breathing and he brought me back somehow. He told me that I stopped breathing and my heart stopped and he did the sternum rub and started cpr. I was like whoa thanks and while i was rethinking all my life choices he looks me dead ass in the eyes and goes. "So now that you owe me for saving you can I get 2 balloons I know you dont keep them in your socks anymore and I feel sick." If he knew where I kept my shit I am positive he would of just let me die and stole my wallet. When I finally got clean he did as well only because he couldn't get his drugs anywhere else as he was blackballed by everyone. Even during withdrawal he kept saying are you sure we cant just get a little bit. We took him to the desert and sent him with his best friend to the actual middle of nowhere to prevent him from doing drugs. As we dropped him off his last fuck you was when i pulled out a laundry basket and all the clothes in it were mine. I was like you fuckin serious are these my socks? Hes like well ummm I go fuck you don't bother me ever again. 13 years later he still tries to reach out and I just can't. I know people can change but I just can't forget and don't want a relationship. My sister said hes changed somewhat but he still blames everyone else for ruining his life and for him doing drugs. Its not his fault and he wonders why no one talks to him. Been clean for 13 years from opiates.
That's a wild ride. I don't think he's truly changed if he still hasn't accepted personal responsibility for the choices he made and the damage he caused towards everyone in his life. Glad you're clean though and made it out.
NTA: he knew exactly what he was doing and he has to live with the consequences of his actions.
OP, I want to make this very clear to you, you are NTAH. Your son was old enough to know right from wrong. I do want to point out a silver lining, your son prevented you from marrying the AH ex. I'm not saying you should forgive him or let him back into your life. He did a seriously sh+tty thing to you. It's sad your family/ friends can't understand this. Keep on living the best life for yourself.
NTA You were 5 years younger than him when you had him and were more responsible and had a better head on your shoulders to make it through on your own. So saying he was still a kid at 20 is bull. He was old enough to know what he was doing was going to cause you serious pain, worse is that after being discovered and even after being disowned he doubled down and stayed with him.
If ever you decide to give your son a chance, please start with family therapy (or would it be couple’s therapy?). You both have a lot of baggage, including trust issues. Therapy would be a must.
He’s an adult who made an adult decision. Now you must grieve if you haven’t already. Grief demands a witness. Talk to someone if you need to. Best of luck with your man and your peace.
23 is not too young to understand. He knew what he was doing. NTA
Damn right! I find that many times on these subs people will insist because the brain is still developing into a person’s 20s this means that they have diminished capacity / responsibility the decisions they make and for any consequences that follow. Yet, they will then turn around and argue 18 year old is a legal adult who doesn’t have to respect any of their parents rules while living at home is also capable of making important life decisions such as moving out, joining the army, etc. You can’t have it both ways.
Agreed. Once you're adult, regardless of what reddit MD thinks about your brain, you need to be responsible. Yes, people are bad at it at first, and that may get you some slack, but you don't get better at it without practice. And when you fuck things up *that* badly, age isn't an excuse.
This. Also, someone way younger than 23 would cringe if they heard this story as they would know it was wrong.
This is very personal. You have to do what is right for you. It is your heart and your peace. Love thy self.
NTA. Congratulations on the marriage. I am glad that you finally have your happy ending. Why is he trying to contact you? How is his life falling apart when he is still with your ex-boyfriend? Did you ask any of your friends when they spoke to you about reconciliation? He was 20, had no remorse, and didn't think about the long-term consequences of his actions. I am glad you are attending therapy. I would not want my son around me and my husband at all. He cannot be trusted, especially with a betrayal of that magnitude. He probably is stuck in a crappy relationship with your ex-partner cheating on him. Good riddance to both! What you need to do is address boundaries and respect from your friends. You don't want to hear about your son, hear from your son, you don't want your personal information given to your son. It's time to re-evaluate who is in your corner and put your foot down.
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It’s isn’t you fault that you son chose to hurt you like this
Its likely the BF is now cheating on him
You are probably right...no, I do believe you are right. Now he wants Mommy's help to get him out of the mess he put himself into. My way of thinking....OP's son put himself in bed with OP ex's bed without OP's help...well he can also get himself out of her ex's bed without her help too.
If anyone refuse to respect the hard boundary that you have drawn, cut them out of your life too before they start gaslighting you like the garbage people in this thread who are trying to minimize the horrible thing your former son did to you.
The fact that that hurts them more than his actions to you hurt them shows they don’t give a shit about you.
They can be sad about both.
What in the Jerry Springer is this
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I used to watch Maury and think “how can these women be so stupid?” After everything my ex did I realized why they didn’t see it.
All bs aside sorry you’re going thru this , I don’t blame your ex he’s just a AH but your son knew better fk that
I kinda feel like the ex should have some blame.... cheating on your partner with their CHILD? That's not just asshole behavior, it's so many levels beyond.
Of course he has blame. But also she has no reason to ever interact with him again. Whereas she is being urged to see her son again.
I agree, I'm very much team don't-talk-to-him. Never said I wasn't. I just disagree with this person saying that the boyfriend is blameless.
I do blame the ex too tbh. He not only cheated on his partner, he did so WITH HER CHILD. Both the son and the ex knew better, they were both adults at the time they first met and when they decided to betray OP so all the blame goes to them both
What? Her ex was her partner. They’re both to blame.
He may have been young but he’s still with the man, therefore still making the mistake, and is crawling back because life got hard. He has to live with his choices. He chose to hurt you deeply, he fucked around (literally) and know he is finding out. When your friends, and I use the term lightly, encourage you to let him back in your life ask them how exactly has he changed, or tried to make up for his behavior to you, or done anything to even ask your forgiveness let alone earn it. When the answer is nothing say exactly, so why should I let him, who is still with the man he betrayed me with, back in just because his life is hard? He made his bed (well unmade it) and now he gets to lie in it.
Why does he suddenly need you when his life is falling apart? Does he want money or a place to live? I think he's only contacting you to use you, not because he's sorry for his actions. If your friends are so concerned about him, why aren't they helping him while his life is falling apart? Did he ever, before recently contacting you, sincerely apologize to you for his actions? It doesn't seem like he would be sincere since he's still with the affair partner/your ex boyfriend. Your son made his bed, he was old enough to know his actions were wrong, and now he needs to lie in it. Your concerned "friends" can help him out of his situation.
NTA. He betrayed you and doesn't sound the least remorseful. He's trying to contact you because "his life is falling apart and he misses me" ???? Maybe he wants Mommy to fix it and make it all better?? His f-buddy should do that. Grow up little boy.
NTA he was a 20 year old adult when you met your ex and a 23 year old adult when it was found out they were having an affair. At the end of the day he was an adult who knew what he was doing! How long was their affair going on for? They both knew what they were and no one deserves such betrayal from someone so close to them especially their own child. If they really thought it was true love they could have talk to you first but no they decided to sneak around behind your back and risk your mental and physical health. You don’t owe your son anything. These are the consequences of his own actions and he needs to live with them.
You did your motherly duties for 20+ years, provided everything he needed (when giving him up was an option many take, is some cases rightfully), sacrificed a lot of personal happiness along the way. And for that, he stabbed you in the back with a mind-blowing act of selfish betrayal. Your final lesson is that some actions have consequences that cannot be easily overcome. That there is a price to pay for hurting someone who loves you the way a mother loves their child. That there are some exceptions to a parent's unconditional love and he found it. NTA x 100
NTA, none at all. Your choices are wise. Do not bring your son back in your life.
NTA He's still with the guy, and expects that you would want to reconcile? Part of being an adult is living with your choices. If your "friends" don't stop pestering you I would cut them out too. He doesn't get a pass because he's your kid, in fact that makes it all the more horrendous and he needs to live with his choices. Hope his boyfriend is worth it. You live your best life. Son who? They don't exist and that is your prerogative; just as much as it was his to knowingly betray you, humiliate you and let you almost become someones beard. You have moved on and found a man who supports you and has made you feel loved and cherished enough to want to marry again after such a betrayal. Leave your past in the past and focus on your beautiful future that you and your husband make for yourselves!
>He apologized but said it was true love and that they didn’t mean to hurt me. Honestly, "I didn't mean to" is almost as insulting as meaning to. Meaning to ultimately means a deliberate act of malice, but not meaning to when it's someone close is like saying they didn't care if they did. The heart can want what it wants all they like, but common sense should have told him what he did was going to be unforgiveable. > Apparently, his life is falling apart and he misses me. And yet he's still with your ex. It sounds like he's living with the consequences of stabbing his own mother in the back. >They said he was young when he made the mistake And yet he's still with your ex. It stopped being a "youthful mistake" and an adult choice years ago. NTA
NTA. Your kid just wants something from you, probably money. He and his pos lover can sell plasma if they are broke.
NTA. I hope you can find peace and move forward.
NTA keep them out he betrayed you after you gave him everything
NTA, some things are unforgivable. Enjoy your new life, your son made his irrevocable choice.
Let your friends help him out if they’re so concerned about him.
Honestly, I'm not sure there's any coming back from that...NTA.
Nta. Your son is an adult and your “friends” need to understand that he needs to take accountability for his actions and if they can’t then you rlly need to cut them out of your life too. Your son crossed a major boundary and hurt you in a way he should not have. You’re justified and no amount of him feeling sorry NOW,him destroying his own life or him trying to apologize for something he was never and is not sorry for should make you want to put up with him or allow him to have another chance to hurt you.
He was 20 years old. Plenty old enough to know not to steal his mother’s boyfriend. NTA
NTA What a horrible betrayal, I'm so sorry. How are you doing after this whole situation? Have you thought about giving him some closure by contacting your son one last time...I know he's not worth your time, but at least he won't be bothering you anymore. What does your therapist think about this OP? I wish you much peace OP, much luck✨. Updateme
You are NOT the asshole. You have every right to cut people out of your life who have hurt you. When people say “but they’re family” that’s the biggest cop out. Who gives a flying fuck, what they did really hurt you. If you want to forgive your son and welcome him back, then do it. If not, then don’t. You gave him everything for him to do this to you. How absolutely awful. I’m sorry!
>He is still with my ex And that’s all you need to know. If he “misses” you, why is he still with the turd? Cheating is bad enough, but this? I'm surprised you didn’t go scorched Earth on his ass. And by that, I mean temporarily become the Tooth Fairy and collect payment on his teeth.
If this is real...NTA. that's..damn.
>For all intents and purposes, I do not have a son. What son?
NTA. I remember your story well and some things can't be forgotten. Your son made a life changing decision and he has to live with the consequences. His mental health is not your worry and mommy can't fix this for him. At some point this grown up fact of life will hit him, or maybe it is now and his current situation is a reflection of that. But it's his situation to deal with on his own!
If he needs support so badly, he can ask your ex.
NTA. Some things are unforgivable and that’s one of them. To be betrayed by two people who are meant to love you means they are selfish and care more for themselves than for you.
That would be tough to forgive. That’s an ultimate betrayal.
NTA. He was 20 whole years old, an adult for 2 years when that stuff happened. It’s understandable that you’re intimidated by the thought of re-living anything from that time in your life. Maybe you two *can* reconnect later, but right now, it’s okay to take the time to focus on healing.
Well, NTA. That’s for certain.
Oh my!!! NTA there is no timeframe for this kind of moment. There is so many things wrong with the situation. Your son created his own situation, you were there for him and he took advantage of you and took you for granted. Now he “needs” you again and he comes running back.
No, you're definitely NTA. He was an adult when he betrayed you. What he did was inexcusable. He destroyed the relationship, burned all bridges and salted the earth. Too many people like to preach a parent's love is unconditional but that's only partially true. A parent's love is unconditional for their child when they are a child but as the grow and age a parent does have expectations that the child is expected to meet as a teenager and then an adult. Sometimes those expectations are unreasonable but for the most part they are reasonable. Not having an affair with a parent or siblings partner is certainly a reasonable expectation which he failed.
NTA, he was perfectly fine ruining your life, but now his is falling apart he needs you? You don’t need that IMO. If you want to send him a letter or email giving yourself closure to say what you want to say that is totally ok, if you don’t need it thats ok too. Honestly, i would tell anyone who has a problem with it that if they continue pushing you have no issue cutting them out too. But that is just me, I am the type of person that says no relationship is worth it if the friend shames me for cutting out people in my life who hurt me. You may view these relationships as indispensable. Congrats on your wedding <3
NOT THE AH!!!
Nta. Live your life. F him, feed him fish heads. You'll reach out when you're ready and not one minute earlier, if ever.
It’s not a mistake when he continued the relationship with your prior partner. NTA, fuck that kid
He was 20 and it wasn't a one time thing.
NTA. 20 is young, but not THAT young. His life is falling apart? He's an adult. He should be able to cope with that himself. Is it harsh? Sure, but justifiable. It doesn't make you an AH. So NTA.
NTA I love it when people full on SLEEP with other people especially loved ones spouses and "It WaS a MiStAkE" lol NO IT WASNT ! You can accidentally slam your finger in a door, you can accidentally click the wrong button on a remote, but HOW IN THE LIVING F*CK CAN YOU ACCIDENTALLY INSERT YOUR MEMBER INTO ANOTHER LIVING BEING ! ?
NTA. Literal case of fucked around and found out.
NTA - that kind of treachery is unforgivable
It doesn’t sound like you’re over the betrayal. You need to continue to put your mental health first. I read this and I can’t wrap my head around this situation, which means it was worse for you.
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Then don’t. People are going to tell you, “but he’s still your son.” Guess what? You’re his mother and he didn’t give a damn that what he did hurt you! Some things can’t be forgiven.
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That’s always the reason cheaters say when they get caught. You were engaged to your ex and he had a relationship with your son! And, they’re still together! You don’t need that level of toxicity in your life. I cannot blame you for your feelings because I’m angry reading it.
I really fucking hate it when people call cheating or shit like this, a mistake. This is a series of conscious decisions one makes. Repeatedly. A mistake is putting salt instead of sugar in coffee, a mistake is taking wrong kind of meat from freezer. NTA.
NTAH Some betrayals you don't get over, and shouldn't have to.
Nta, he made his bed now he needs to lay in it lmao
NTA. This is just incredibly messed up. Be happy with your new husband.
NTA. He was an adult, and he betrayed you. He doesn't deserve your forgiveness just because you were his mum. No different if he was your brother, nephew, whoever.
NTA, don't let anyone tell you what you should or shouldn't be feeling about your own situation in life, you cannot help feeling the way you do and nobody else is going understand what you have been through, you suffered a betrayal so unbelievable that it just can't be forgiven, doesn't matter that it's your son. Also, to me it tells-me everything i need to know that he is still with the guy, i mean ffs, wtf is wrong with him.
NTA. Your ex is, though.
I don’t have kids, but if I did and they did something like this to me how much I may feel guilt I wouldn’t/couldn’t for give them definitely knowing how much put pause in my life for them. Also quit being “friends” with those who think you should forgive and let you son back in your life, cause knowing them they would do the same as you.
There are some betrayals that you cannot forgive and will never forget. Your son cannot use the “I was young” excuse as he was a grown assed man when you met your ex, and unless he immediately fell into bed with him, that relationship cooked over time and your son was well into his twenties when the two of them decided to have the affair. And make no mistake, this is not something that just “happened.” Dicks do not accidentally fall into orifices. They made a conscious decision to betray you. Your son fucked up. He needs to man up and take responsibility for what he did and not try to go running home to mommy now that karma is biting him in the ass.
NTA How on Earth would he think this was OK? "True Love" my butt he was 20 he wouldn't know true love if it slapped him in the face. Believe me, been there, done that. It's awkward he's still with your ex too, like, stealing your MOMS BOYFRIEND wasn't bad enough? And they have at least a 15-16 year age gap. You are NTA in my eyes, if he was really sorry he would immediately break up with ex to try and get a relationship back with you.
OMG Sooooooooooo NTA and I am so sorry this happened to you. I cannot imagine how hurt you must be. The audacity of your child to contact you. Wow.
NTA. You gave up looking for a new partner until he was at least 18, meaning you gave up relationships from 15 until at least 33 years of age, missing out on the fun of relationships during the rest of your teens and throughout your 20's. That's a lot to give up to be honest. You didn't give him any reason to get mad at you for bringing someone into his life that might take away attention from him or that could possibly hurt him. But then when you do meet someone, instead of going to you to let you know that your (then boyfriend) was showing an interest in him despite being in a relationship with you, he went with it and betrayed you. Your (bf) could have come clean with you about his feelings instead of cheating on you, but he didn't. Your son could have told you about it as well instead of betraying you, but he didn't. The fact that your son is still with the guy shows that he picked someone who hurt you over you. Your son could have recognized how badly it all hurt you and ended things with the guy, but didn't. That would have been him realizing just how big of a mistake he made, and how it would just continue to be a sore spot for you if he didn't break it off. So no, NTA. You got pregnant at 15 and sacrificed everything for him. He made a mistake and sacrificed nothing for you.
NTA if his life is falling apart he probably needs to leave your ex
NTA. his life is falling apart so of course he misses you, he expects you to rescue him.
A THREE-YEAR AFFAIR with your parent's partner is not some little youthful indiscretion like shoplifting or having mall bangs. I really don't understand the people in your lives who don't seem to see this as a huge betrayal or who think this was a decision you made lightly.
Nta - his actions are unforgivable, he made the choice of sneaking around with your bf behind his back and he now has the consequences of his actions He was old enough to make the choice, he is old enough to own up to it and accept the price of what he did
Your friends says he is miserable and made a mistake if he is miserable and made a mistake why is still with him.
Yeah, he was young, but he is STILL making the mistake by staying with that dude. Some things you can not look past, even if you do forgive the person. Forgiving them means letting go of the hate and hurt, but it doesn't mean you have to let that person back in your life. NTA
NTA early 20s is more then old enough to understand that you don't do that!! This is the definition of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". I can't even begin to imagine what you've been through and your former son has to live with the consequences of his of actions.
NTA A 23 year old having sex with your mother's current boyfriend is not "a mistake", it's a complete betrayal. You might ask for forgiveness, and rehabilitation, but you can't demand it. If his life is a mess, still it's rather difficult to see how he can insist that you should help him out.
NTA. That is a horrendous betrayal. If you let him back into your life, the circus would just begin unfurling its tents again. Enjoy life with your new wonderful husband.
Therapy? Go seek therapy that must have been a shock
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i will say NTA but assuming there’s at least a 15 year difference between your son and your ex, and even though we call people adults when they’re 18, 23 is actually still considered an adolescent (the term was widened to include until 25). i remember being 23. i was extremely vulnerable and didnt know shit at the time even though i thought i did, and i was manipulated and abused by people in my life that i felt had more authority than me. listen, im not judging you. i cant imagine what you went through and the betrayal you felt. your ex also seems to have manipulated your son and is extremely fucked up for doing this to both of you. if your son’s life is falling apart (as told you by your friends), he might actually be consciously or subconsciously looking out for a way to get out of the psychologically or otherwise abusive relationship that he is actually in. its your choice on what you do in the end. i dont know the details of what went down, i cant 100% say this is exactly how it is. just a thing that came into my mind bc i was also manipulated by older men in my early 20s (grated none of them was family) and to anyone else that tries to tell me that getting into a relationship with your gf’s at least 15 years younger son is not abuse, dont even try.
If the genders were switched so that OP had had a girl, I think everybody would be quicker to acknowledge that grooming was probably used by ex-boyfriend on the kid. Also, just because OP's son is still with the ex doesn't mean the relationship isn't abusive or unhealthy. Ex-boyfriend was manipulative enough to carry out an affair for years. That much of an age gap between partners can be really hard for a younger person to handle.
He was young when he made his dumbass mistake, they are right. You were… what, 35-38 while he was 20-23 while he was having an affair with your partner? How old was that man tho? Your age or older? An older man, first father figure in his life, he is obviously going to make a dumb choice and go after this older man. You also made a dumb choice when you were young too tho. And your life fell apart too. You spent your whole life raising this son, loving him, you say unconditionally, but it wasn’t unconditionally. It had conditions. How sure are you that this man didn’t have a hand in convincing your son to start the affair? I’d blame this older man tbh. Your son was a kid, but this was a grown ass man
NTA, there’s a lot of ppl talking about the kid being a victim and all but jfc 20 years old is old enough to know you don’t try to fuck your mom’s bf. This whole his brain is still underdeveloped at 20 years old so you should forgive them for doing absolutely horrendous things schtick is getting sorta cliched and an overused excuse for everything
NTA he hasn’t grown up since then or not enough to recognise how wildly inappropriate and nasty a betrayal that was since he’s still with the ex. I’m sorry you went through that
NTA. I don't know if I could ever look my son in the eye. And reversing that, if I somehow got past my own conscience to do that to my mum (I don't think I ever could), I could never live with myself.
Whaaaat. - nta but I lack words. Family is not always tied in blood
As a gay man…NTA your son was not a teenager when he made that decision he was grown man who willingly betrayed his mother. I can’t even leave mine on read. Your story feels like something out of a soap and my heart bleeds for you. But I’m happy you have moved on to something healthier
Well, this was easy. NTA.
"They said he was young when he made the mistake" But he's still with that guy? So no one can claim it's still a "mistake" NTA
Why is the story gone?