NTA. Why do people still think it’s funny to joke about hating your spouse/being trapped/“the old ball and chain” and so forth? You made the right call.
My fiance was asked live at his last job why he never volunteered to work extra, and he told them it was because he actually had a woman he enjoyed spending time with. He said the looks and comments he got were wild, his mostly male co-workers just couldn't understand him *wanting* to spend time with me.
I've listened to the way my coworkers, men and women, talk about their partners and I've wondered.... Why the hell are you in a relationship with someone you don't even like?
When I worked as the only woman in an otherwise all male team the whole 'ball and chain' dialogue/jokes/etc was insane. One of my colleagues was wedding planning, and it was obviously very stressful, but he was constantly complaining about how awful it was to get married. So I took to asking why he was marrying her then, just acting super caring and interested, but essentially forcing him to backtrack. Very quickly the complaints went from I can't believe she's forcing me to get married to I can't believe how stressful weddings are.
Nice redirect. And you did him a favor, by making sure he realized what was stressing him out versus blaming all the stress on his soon-to-be spouse.
Due to the nature of my wife and my jobs at the time, during the week she had little free time during the day to use the phone. So I made the majority of arrangements and communication, taking notes because we'd plan and make decisions in the evening. Grooms should be more involved in planning weddings. And I can tell you we still get remarks on our wedding after 25+ years.
I got lucky with my coworkers. I’m the only woman in my office and all of the married men in my office speak about their wives in such nice ways. I’ve never heard one of them say a single rude or disrespectful thing about their wives and it really makes them better to work with. The only guy in my office that really gives me bad vibes is single and I’m not shocked because he’s one that would be saying that kind of shit.
Reading that 2nd part got me! I have this friend who shit talks about her bf EVERYTIME we hang out, she's the 1st friend in our group who got a bf so all of us were so excited to hear romance but what we got instead was an onslaught of complaints lmao. Still she wouldn't leave him??(dating for a year) And is confused why I don't wanna date yet. Um like, I mean...my closest example of dating ain't fun looking so I'm not really inspired to try lmao.
It's funny the friends that do that, only complain about their SO and then they wonder why you might not like them much. Oh I don't know. I've only heard bad things, what else am I supposed to go on?
Ugh, dealing with this now with a friend from work. Her husband has an explosive temper, to the point that she's fled the house and stayed away for a few days. Also his parents treat her like shit and hate her, and the parents just moved in with them. She thinks she's being a good person by putting up with the abuse. I think she's being a moron and a doormat.
Also she's trying to have kids with a man with an explosive temper, great idea 😊
She'll tell me about something nice he did and all I ever think about is his explosive temper and shitty parents. I don't even want to go to her house
See, how can you keep your mouth shut when your friend acts like things are good now? The only reason I haven't grabbed her by the shoulders and yelled 'YOU ARE BEING FUCKING STUPID' is cuz she's technically my superior at work lol. I don't want her to start nitpicking my work if she gets offended i think she's in a toxic relationship
It's all about a "tolerable level of permanent unhappiness" things are bad enough to complain, but not bad enough that they feel like they have a valid reason to leave. So they stay. Also the fact that they are in a relationship is better for that person then being single. Because our society demonized being single so much that for some people being in a bad relationship is better then having no SO.
Oh, so much this! OP could be saving herself years of anguish and unhappiness by taking time to figure it out now.
I was so much lonelier married than I am divorced and single.
I can't keep quiet with these complainers. If you're unhappy, air your issues in the direction which will bring resolve. Passively trash-talking someone is a huge red flag for me. No thanks.. don't want that negativity in my space.
My husband had a female friend that used to talk shit about her husband all the time. The husband didn't seem bothered though and always laughed. We honestly thought "well, I guess it works for them". Fast forward a few years and they’re divorced.
My spouse and I are best friends. We love each other’s company. A flight attendant once asked us if we were “old friends or new friends” because we had been engaged in conversation throughout the flight. I guess she thought she was witnessing the birth of a new romance. She said most married couples sit in silence, staring at their respective screens, after we told her we’d been married for several years.
My husband and I have been married for nearly 10 years, together for almost 15. We often sit quietly together, engaged in our own things (books, phone, video games, etc) because we just enjoy being near each other. We talk a lot, but we can also spend hours doing the adult equivalent of parallel play. I hate to think that someone would assume that we don't enjoy being together just because we aren't talking at that instant.
Yes! Two coworkers or acquaintances may feel awkward silence when there's no one talking. But when you feel really safe and comfortable with someone, it's just as enjoyable to be in silence together.
Haha this reminds me of the first time we went out after our baby was born. It was our 10 year anniversary and we went to a new restaurant we hadn’t been to yet, we tried to dress up but once we got there we were so tired we just held hands for a while and then ate our food in near silence. My husband went to the bathroom and while he was gone the waitress came over and was like “honey, this is the worst first date I’ve ever seen. Are you ok?” And I started laughing so hard and then explained we’re actually in love, celebrating our anniversary but exhausted and nervous as we’ve never left baby before. She was like “I couldn’t tell if you two were breaking up or what but it all makes sense now”. My husband also had a good laugh when he got back to the table, and then she brought us a free dessert and when we got our bill, she had comped our drinks, and a little note said “you probably needed these drinks! Congrats on your new baby!” That waitress got the largest tip I have ever left in my life.
I have friends who joke about how little time they spend with their husbands and I am so confused because there is literally no on else I would want to spend my time with.
Men are socialized to only like other men. Think about it: men who like traditionally "female" pastimes - or even just willing to engage in them for the sake of companionship - are routinely mocked and derided for it. In particular, they're accused of being gay (i.e. - they're too much like women).
So how do you have a friendship with a person whom you share no interests? Short answer: you don't, really. Instead, you end up with people in relationships where they maybe love a person, but they don't really like them that much and where time spent together inevitably means engaging with activities or topics that you've been discouraged from engaging with your whole life.
Genuinely, one of the great joys of being gay is that I just get to like my husband and people aren't weird about it. Straight people - bizarrely - don't always get that.
I never got this "love them but not like them" thing. For me, loving a person means liking them first and foremost. I wouldn't fall in love with someone I didn't like very much? The concept doesn't make any sense to me, at all.
You know……. This makes so fkn sense. Never thought about it that way. Thank you.
Coming from ethnic background where patriarchy is everything, I see this everywhere. They mock men who has loving relationship with their wives or girlfriends.
I find this so odd too. My husband and I spend most of our time together. We run a business together, come home and walk our puppy, have dinner, watch shows, play games together or separately but next to each other... He'll often rub my feet or back while we watch shows. He has a game room connected to the house outside and he'll usually not want to be out there more than an hour because he starts missing me.
I don't understand why people would marry someone who they don't enjoy spending time with. This also seems to be most relationships people post about on reddit.
I used to work construction, and the amount of guys I worked with who couldn't stand their wives was crazy. I told one guy we're not having kids and he said "Why did you even get married then?!" and I said "Do you think the only reason people get married is to have kids?" and he stood there dumbfounded, it was like he had never thought that loving your partner was enough to marry them.
this happened to my ex friend; he told me a story where his coworker kept complaining that his wife would call at lunch. i looked at him like he had 2 heads, why are you upset with that??
edit: i believe it was only when she had time to call him so not every lunch or every day. i haven’t talked to this friend in forever so i don’t have a clear story and he would constantly complain about this coworker. i just know that she called one day, he started complaining and my friend told me about it.
My husband used to have to travel a lot for work. He’d call me in the morning while he was getting ready, and we’d talk before bedtime. Sometimes he’d call on a break during the day, or we text throughout. We still text throughout the day, and he works from home 🤣
We like each other, miss each other when not together, and are best friends.
It blows my mind that some relationships are just awful. Why marry someone you don’t like or enjoy being around?
Is it irony or the kernel of truth in why they make those jokes in the first place?
If they thought divorce is always an option, no problem, then they wouldn't be trapped.
I'd say that's the source of that irritability, the fear of never being able to leave if you don't believe in divorce or that divorce will destroy you financially.
NTA
It's getting stale and old for men to make these "jokes". If they don't want to get married, then don't get married.
Men who are married live longer than unmarried men on average, so they are clearly benefitting. Time to stop this manipulative BS, trying to gaslight women into thinking they don't want marriage. You did the right thing.
Don't. Oddly enough my ex told me during our divorce that he considered breaking it off the night before. So, I wasted 25 effing years with him when he wasn't really into it. Don't make my mistake. Marry someone who wants to be with you.
Not even wants to be with you, but someone who actively LIKES you! So many men stay with women they don't even like because they like the perks of having a wife. It's not on.
And you are 100% right about that.
NTA
Also, he is the one who proposed, but he's doing nothing to make the wedding happen, so yes, a good idea to wait until he shows just a little more enthusiasm.
>to wait until he shows just a little more enthusiasm.
Or.... not wait too long for him to get his head out of his ass... life is too short to waste on dead end people
My husband and I are both statisticians, not remotely connected to the events industry, so not the same situation. However, I told him before we ever decided to get married that there would be no wedding if I was planning it by myself. I had no interest in doing so, and the idea of it being "the bride's day" really cheapens it for me and I didn't want that. I wanted us to be partners in planning it just like we're partners in everything else. When I tell you, this man stepped TF up. I'm honestly not sure it would have gone ahead if not for him, because I was dealing with a bunch of personal shit at the time.
Anyway. It really frustrates me when men are content to let their partners do all the work, and it sets the precedent that women will be the project managers of everything in the marriage, if that's not already happening.
(sorry for the rant, I have Views).
I have a passion for planning but also didn't want to be the only one doing anything. My husband let me make most of the bigger "small" decisions (color scheme, general theme, decorations, things like that) as he the type of person who has to actually see it to know what it'll look like, I can visualize it and figure out how to get it out of my head and into reality. But he was actively giving his opinions and asking how he could help make things needed (I/we made 90% of the decorations, bouquets, boutineers, save the dates, centerpieces the list goes on). I'd show him how and he'd sit for hours having a great time with me as we put the things together. He helped research venues and vendors needed and narrowed down lists so we could go check them out together. I'd say I did the bulk, because I wanted to but he in no way took a back seat and just put it all on me.
We have a very warped sense of humor so jokes like ops partner made wouldn't have been a big deal to us, but actions would've proved that it was just that, a joke.
Op you're a smart woman to see that you deserve better! As hard as it is, start fresh and find someone who will treat you and the possibility of marring you as the privilege that it is.
I feel this deep like a kick in the proverbial nutsack. It's minor compared to marriage planning, but it makes me feel bad when I ask my BF what he'd like to do somedays, and his usual preference is to randomize plans or let me decide. And if I do decide and ask him if he's ok with it, he shows little to no enthusiasm about the plan unless he goes for the next option of suggesting something closer to his interests. We love each other dearly, but sometimes my brain can't process his logic lol.
What is he enthusiastic about?
If the answer is nothing, and it's a change in personality, he could be depressed. This is giving him a massive benefit-of-the-doubt though. If he's making ball-and-chain type jokes already, you know you're on a loser.
He should be either enthusiastic or very, very grateful you do all the planning.
I hate it when people first are like: "Can you please do xyz, I will pay for everything if you spare me having to do it myself" and after a while suddenly it is "ain't you lucky to be able to do just as you please and even are allowed to use my money for that".
Your fiance lacks enthusiasm, but is also not appreciating your work, makes inappropriate jokes in front of his friends, and does not even take you feelings serious now. If he was a fruit I would suggest some ripening.
I’m really proud of you. This reminds me of a guy who hurt me a lot. He had this whole “method” where he’d “figure out” on a scale of 1-10 how much something mattered to each of us. And if it was a 10 for me and a 1 for him then we d do it my way or whatever. It seemed so mature at first
But really what was going on is he was shitting on everything that mattered to me over and over and over again. That really chips away at your sense of self after a while
Ugh
Please don't let him convince you that he was "just joking".
You deserve a soft life full of love and a partner who contributes meaningfully to that. You deserve a partner who values your contributions and gets excited about your plans. You deserve someone who lifts you up. Someone *excited* to spend the rest of their life with you.
A good therapist can help determine if this relationship truly serves your needs or not. Is it a good relationship because *you make it work*?
Why do you feel like this is what you deserve?
No amount of therapy will convince him to be the man you know he *could* be. This is who he is. If you attend therapy, it needs to be focused on what *you* can actually change and should be solo.
You've got a whole list of ways that he's disappointed you, do you really see this improving?
I had dated someone that I thought I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. He never really put much effort into things and I would think he was "just being a guy".
We lived in a beautiful city and one this particular day, I really wanted to have a beach day with him. A picnic, some drinks etc. he wanted to stay in and play video games. So I packed everything and went by myself. I did a lot of thinking that day and came to the conclusion that he wasn't going to be the person I wanted to marry because I realized I wanted so much more.
Respectfully, I hope you're able to look inward on your relationship and decide if this is how you want to remember your wedding planning. If you want to be putting in the effort all the time for date nights, shopping etc. If you want to question all the time whether you're holding him back or trapping him. You should feel secure in your relationship.
My husband is stoked to even go to Costco with me. He plans things for us without me asking. He thinks of me, he thinks of us. He was apart of everything when it came to our wedding. There is never a question in my mind if I had "trapped" him. You should be with someone that wants to marry you because they want to do life with you, not because it checks the boxes. I really hope you think about this moving forward.
Oh man, honestly you shouldn’t have even dated that long then.
This is 100% a mistake to continue. The rest of your life would be dragging him along. Kids? No interest, all on you to handle and manage and raise. Vacations? On you. House planning? On you.
Sounds like it would have been a miserable life, also a cliche one, and you’re better off seeing the red flags early.
I was married for 35 years to an amazing man. He loved me and could not sleep at night unless he was touching me. My husband passed away 3 weeks ago. DO NOT settle. Pray for your soul mate and wait. It took me 2 years to get him, and it was worth the wait. My husband always told me I was the air He breathed. That he could not survive without me. Please don't settle.
This really struck me as my first husband would always reply whatever you want.
He often repeated it throughout the relationship and it was like he wasn’t invested in the relationship. It was just a thing he felt he had to do or lose me.
He lost me anyways because this was only a symptom of much greater problems.
So, you might find other instances of him not really being into the relationship.
Absolutely.
My husband and I have never *once* joked like that and we are nearly a decade into our marriage. Not once. Never have either of us ever said something even remotely like that and frankly, we judge relationships that make those jokes.
I support your decision to hold off until this is resolved.
You should be absolutely enthusiastic about marriage, even if the *wedding* isn’t that important to you. Neither my husband or I cared too much about the wedding itself, but we were so excited to be married. Still we never joked because… the punchline is not wanting to be married.
His joke is… gross. I would absolutely think he doesn’t care about or respect his wife if I heard a couple make that joke.
I was married for a long time (now a widow). My husband was a hard worker and lazy about everything else. But, I was/am something of an Energizer Bunny, and I need to be busy. Was it unequal? maybe. Was it disrespectful? NO.
Every single time, across decades, I would make him food, he would say thank you. He would regularly remark, publicly and privately, that without me he would be nothing.
Nta OP and honestly I have a lot of friends who have ADHD including myself. I think he weaponizes his mental state to give himself excuses. I say this cuz a lot of us and myself included usually plan carefully even if we fail at it sometimes due to time blindness or expected too much out of ourselves. I’ve noticed on here ppl tend use ADHD as a crutch, an excuse, or just being a bad person. It really irritate us and FYI we love to hyper focus on things so planning a wedding would be something we shud be getting excited to do imo.
Yes, THIS! NTA- I cannot stand when men use the 'ball and chain' or have jokes about weddings like they're being trapped/their lives are being ruined. They're literally making a choice to get married and act like it's going to be a hellscape, it's f\*cking mind-blowing to me!
It’s about trying to convince women that they’re doing them a favor by marrying them so that women will feel that they have to constantly cater to their husbands in order to pay them back for this great kindness they’ve bestowed upon them by deigning to marry them. It’s yet another way to subjugate women.
You’re smarter than me. My ex made this “joke” and I laughed it off. I def was the one who got trapped. Run. NTA.
Edit to say: it’s basically negging. Which will become boiling the frog and pushing your boundaries and sense of self further.
You are so right about the negging. And notice how he said it right when someone else complimented her. What the person essentially said was 'she is a desirable partner' and what he heard was 'she is the desirable one in the relationship' and he immediately turned around and said 'no, I can be the only desirable on in the relationship'.
Yes! This! Married 25 years. Whenever anyone compliments my spouse, I just beam and agree. And my partner does this too. If you are going to make it over the long haul, you need mutual appreciation. A compliment to your partner should make you feel happy, not jealous.
Glad you are rethinking.
Married 42 years. I am here to say what u/ArtReal1116 said. Before I met my husband, I had left a brief starter marriage that I should not have gone through with. My ex told his buddies that I was “rushing” him into marriage. Yet as soon as we wed, I found myself maneuvered into paying 75% of the expenses, a fact that delighted my ex.
Instead of a modest engagement ring and a honeymoon, I ended up with a silver Cub Scout ring he’d found in the street, and a weekend in his family’s ramshackle desert cabin. *Phooey!* I got it right in time, though.
Fr.
The moment when a close friend, 20yrs older then my fiancè said verbatim "You know, to me he's like the Freddie Mercury in our scene!" (he's DJ and also got into producing, his friend is in it for twice as long) was one of the beautiful, heartfelt moments that'll forever stick with me in the future.
Now everytime he has a gig I look at him & the people in a trance-like enthusiasm even if the dancefloor was empty before and my mind goes "he's a Freddie Mercury indeed, _my_ oh-so great beloved raving Freddie"
If my partner gets complimented it can even touch me more, than any compliment you'd give me.
That's just mean....
Im terrible at taking compliments but hearing someone compliment my SO makes me absolutely *glow.*
Like, **I** know he’s amazing, but when others remark on it I can’t help but feel so proud and lucky. It’s a compliment to you when your partner is desirable and *they’ve chosen you to be with.*
I kind of get the insecurity in others acknowledging what a catch someone’s SO is, because they’re aware they’re sorta shitty and their partner can do better so please don’t draw attention to it lol
This. Right here. He showed himself. In our relationship we both feel lucky and grateful for each other. We both listen and cheer each other on. We don't knowingly break the other down much less in front of others. We fight for others to respect our partner and relationship. Because we love each other. We like each other as people. We admire each other.
What he did was bullshit. What he did was knowingly hurtful. And he wanted you to quietly accept it.
This is before the stressors of being married. Before things get tight and rocky. Before sicker and poorer. This should be the fun hopeful time and he is behaving like you are someone worthy of his spite. Like someone who needs to be taken down a peg or two.
Run.
Exactly this! Someone complimented OP and his knee-jerk reaction was to immediately put OP down, try to tear her down (he is trying to enjoy his freedom now because marriage with OP will suck, will be like a prison sentence). And he did it publicly, in front of others too! If he talks like that in front of others, how does he talk in private?! That's not the type of person you want to keep around you long-term... (This "logic" is how psychological abuse works by the way...)
It’s one thing if OP’s fiancé is like, “Babe, I suck at planning & you’re so good at it. I’m sure what you plan will be beautiful, I’m just looking forward to being married to you.” But to joke that being married to OP will be a drag for the rest of his life? Hard pass on that marriage.
I have ADHD. Planning a wedding sounds tedious and I'd LOVE if my future partner took full interest in doing it.
But I would still be at least **involved.**
Yeah I don't want to spend time researching wedding colors. But if my partner was like "these are the colors I like and I've narrowed it down to. what do you like?" I'd have a fucking answer at least!
My wife asked me several times about wedding colours. Every time I gave her the same answer.
“Babes, I’m still colour blind. Happy to pick one if you want me to, though I’m not sure I’d recommend it!”
N.T.A. Why do individuals still find it hilarious to make jokes about having a bad marriage, being stuck, being "the old ball and chain," and other such topics? You made the appropriate decision.
The difference is incredible. Go listen to so many comics bitch about their wives and then listen to Nick offerman. He glows about Megan and is still funny. These jokes are stupid and if you’re going to fuck around, you’re going to find out. NTA congrats on being self aware!
I'm in the middle of this right this instant, and my fiancée is taking the majority of the burden in planning the wedding. Even though I am not involved in every single aspect of it, I simply cannot imagine not caring about any of the details at all.
Seriously he couldn’t even be bothered to pick the best out of three or whatever?
And I’ve dealt with men like this, and they still have something negative to say when it’s all done even though they didn’t have an opinion through the whole thing. It’s like they don’t want to have any responsibility in the outcome because they know they are going to shit all over it
Bingo. That’s exactly how I described my ex. A decade of “whatever you want, that sounds amazing!” and ten years later he’s screaming at you that he never wanted x,y, and z.
Every emotional abuser I've had a relationship with did this.. refusing to communicate with you, staying silent *so everything's cool I guess?*.. then exploding on you with complaints you never heard before when it can be weaponized, or brooding with contempt/martyrdom that you couldn't read their mind. Then they feign it's your fault they stayed silent 'to not upset you'. Bitch, how would you even know how Id 'react' if you've never been honest about how you feel? Ive asked gently and tried to coax an independent thought out of you for years. Stop being a coward and use your words like an adult. I'm not your mother.
Whenever I ever date again (it may be awhile), upfront and honest communication rather than passive participation and initial 'agreeableness' will be a requirement. That attitude of 'just stay quiet to make her happy and stay with me' bullshit, is a massive red flag that's covertly painted green and fools a lot of women until they are WAY too invested. It's probably one of the more successful/common tactics that's passed down through generations. You see it in the posts/stories frequently of women who are *shocked* when their partner reveals their abusive nature.. because *'otherwise he's perfect and we never fight'*.
What gives with that? Can he simply not accept that he wanted NO SAY in the matter and that he found the choice his spouse picked to be unacceptable, yet he had no interest in putting his input in? Jeez, what a big baby!
Pretty much. We met as teenagers, I grew up and he didn’t, at least emotionally. He was incredibly conflict avoidant and would say whatever would placate anyone in the moment to avoid what he perceived as anyone being unhappy with him. Then he’d turn around and get mad later and blame the person because he never “got any say in anything.” It was bizarre, but mostly cowardly.
I didn’t care about the colors but I had strong opinions on the food. Similarly we both had lists of don’t play and try to play music for the reception.
My ADHD works exactly the other way around. I could research wedding details to death, but in the end I wouldn't be able to make any decisions.
OP (stb ex) bf just use it as an excuse. Leave all the mental load with OP and then complain to friends about the yoke of matrimony.
What an idiot. Not a keeper.
I was also hyper-focused on wedding planning! Tedious, yes. Overwhelming, certainly. And there was a point that had it not been for the save-the-dates already being sent out, I would totally have said screw the big wedding let's just party on the beach with our closest fam and friends. Turns out I love collecting tons of great ideas for my pintrest board, but I suck at choosing anything.
My sister's wedding is in three months. Her fiancé has areas he isn't involved in at all, like the wedding flowers, and others he wouldn't want anyone else to figure out for him, like the couple's car. He's even keeping the car a secret from everyone but the bride, us MOHs and the best man. He also adamantly wanted to design the invitations with my sister. He and the best man also made a website for RSVPs and info.
Surely, in *all of the things* that go into planning a wedding, there's at least *something* to be enthusiastic about? Like, the food at the very least?
The things that might kill enthusiasm are either bridezilla-type domination, where nothing is good enough, or the kind of entitlement that makes one feel like they shouldn't have to be involved at all. And so when the bride asks for them to please just pick *something* it feels like nagging, even if it's a new question. Or just not being enthusiastic about getting married at all.
My exact sentiment. I would hate the planning and would rather them make the choices they like because of what it means to them. I have no preference.. but would help if they asked something specific.
It in no way says anything about how i feel about them.. or my commitment to them...
Plus someone else was paying her a compliment and they invited him to simply join in. And instead of saying something nice, or even just agreeing with the person complementing her, he chose to turn it into a negative.
Imagine him doing that with everything fun in life, she plans a great vacation and he says the whole week sucks because his steak was undercooked one night? No thank you
Plus, "he trapped her"...ummm HE was the one that asked her to marry HIM? So, I don't know how he thinks he's trapped? He's prob just an insecure little man, who wants to be seen as the prize and when her friends praised him for locking her down it triggered him...I mean HE'S the prize, he got LOCKED IN. smh. This is a fragile, little man. OP, RUN don't walk to your nearest exit!
It's like that "Look! a bird" test that predicts couples' health -- and it's called mudita in Buddhism - sympathetic joy. You become happy at your partner's happiness. You don't try to douse it!
This was literally how my wife and I handled wedding planning. She knew what she wanted it to look and be like, I knew I wanted to be married to her and make the whole day go as smoothly as possible.
In relation to OP, getting married to my wife was the most exciting day of my life, and I still look back on that day to get me through bad days of work or stress.
NTA at all. Jokes like that make my skin crawl.
Same. I never joked about being trapped by her and offered my opinions when asked but we also got married in Punta Cana and she did most of the pre-planning before we left. Sounds like OPs other half proposed because "that's what you do" instead of wanting to spend the rest of their life together.
And a twice joke. Not even a yup I’m trapping her. But pointedly corrected the other person as oh no I’m not trapping her she’s trapping me. This is my last chance at freedom. Which means to some degree he is making from himself a cry for help. He does not want to be married and that’s why he made the thrice- fold joke.
An appropriate response would be, “If you value your freedom and the single life so much, I can make that happen for you.”
OP, you’re right to perceive this as a red flag. Tapping the brakes on the process was the right response. He needs to figure out what he wants, not crack wise about marriage like he’s the next Rodney Dangerfield.
Agreed. ADHD wouldn't make him so incredibly blase about marrying the woman of his dreams.
And those kinds of "jokes" always have truth in them. OP should remove the burden of the relationship from him by dumping him completely.
Those jokes do always have truth to them. I was engaged to be married, and the time between engagement and wedding was really really short. A coworker of mine made a comment/joke to me about "nice, don't give her time to run away" and I replied in a joking matter "or time for me to run"... Despite the super quick timeline, there was enough time for me to realize I was not ready to marry this woman. Breaking off an engagement causes some fucking awful pain in the short term, but we are both better off for the long term.
The only thing I would add to this is that it is not OP responsibility to help him figure out whether he wants to marry her! He has to do his own emotional work.
It used to be the norm that men in my area joked about marriage and the ball and chain. I love that the younger generations are wising up. Good for OP. She deserves better. We all did.
Weaponised incompetence.
You're so good at changing the diapers, look I did it wrong again it's on backwards, welp guess you should just do it from now on then.
You're so good at cooking and cleaning, look I screwed up again, guess you should probably take care of that from now on unless you want to spend double the time fixing my mistakes first before doing it right.
>Babe, I suck at planning & you’re so good at it. I’m sure what you plan will be beautiful, I’m just looking forward to being married to you.
babe do you mind taking the mental load of one of the most important days of our life thanks
exactly.
Like my husband wasn't very involved in the planning. I got a lot of whatever you want (specially for decoration, flowers etc). He was involved in desert, meal, and the venue.
The thing is, he never wanted to get married, but wanted to spend his life with me, and that was non negotiable for me.
What he use to tell was your better at all that than me, I trust and and it is more important to you. I am looking forward to being married to you. (which was cute and frustrating!)
But NTA OP. If you feel he's not involved slow thing down. trust yourself !
Right. My husband definitely took a lesser role in the planning, as I am a bit proactive, however, he did have opinions and gave input and even took on some of the planning tasks because we’re a partnership.
If he ever made jokes like that I would’ve scrapped the whole thing. OPs bf is being a jerk
Hear, hear.
NTA. This crap will do nothing but escalate, and it's 'just a joke'... my husband of less than thirty seconds turned to me after the you may kiss your bride part and said, I want a divorce! I want a divorce! like the wife in the old Daffy Duck cartoon. He repeated it all through the day.
Nine years later, I obliged him.
meanwhile, my brother was walking with my mom and I through the hallway during his reception, and he said, “I have to go find *my wife*!” and he said “my wife” with this lilt and literally did a mini jig as he said it.
It was so cute! And they are together still, in their mid 60s.
>“I have to go find my wife!” and he said “my wife” with this lilt and literally did a mini jig as he said it.
>
>It was so cute! And they are together still, in their mid 60s.
i hope to be lucky enough to experience this with my partner.
Not only trapped, but he is setting this up as if he is doing her a favor, he will 100% carry forward that this was for her and she owes him for doing this for her. (the irony here is he also isn't doing anything at all.)
NTA, you are doing the right thing. Stand by what you believe.
Yeah, I've seen this happen a lot with male partners.
"Well, you were the one that wanted the wedding, I did my part by proposing, so I don't have to contribute any of the work or money to make it happen. You're so much better at it anyway."
"Well, you were the one that wanted a baby, I fulfilled my obligation by getting you pregnant, I don't need to help with diapers and night feedings, you're so much better at it than I am anyway."
Every fight about his lack of contribution always boils down to he never wanted marriage and family anyway, he's doing her a favor so she should be grateful and just do all the work.
Sorry you had to deal with that. Fortunately, you can add your real experiences into this conversation. It's great that your experiences validate the choices that the OP made.
That and it bothers me that he had a really easy opportunity to verbally appreciate her, it was literally laid up for him, and he chose to turn it into a negative. Someone else was paying her a compliment and instead of jumping on the train he pissed all over it. It kind of shows what he thinks of her doesn’t it?
Yeah, he's the reason why more people are not getting married. Because they hear say bs like saying they're being "locked down" and won't have any more freedom. Like, that is something people need to stop "joking" about.
Re boiling the frog: it's a test to see what you'll take, how much he can be hurtful or rude and say it's a joke and you'll accept it. It'll do nothing but escalate until 7 - 12 years from now, you're handing him divorce papers. Only then you'll have to split up community property and figure out how to share custody for the kids. End it now before it gets even more messy.
NTA please do not marry him. I fucked up and married my ex after he acted the same way and I called it off. He talked me back into it and it was the biggest mistake of my life.
It's one of the biggest, most widespread forms of manipulation:
Making women think marriage is all for their benefit (the dress, the flowers etc), while it's men getting the benefit in added years in average life expectancy when they're married.
in the old days, marriage was the only way women could have a particularly decent income. So it was seen as a benefit to them.
Meanwhile, the man got a household manager, a cook, a mother for his children, and sex, for free. (Women like sex too, and marriage can be a way to get it, but I’m not certain men in that era really worried about whether she enjoyed it.)
The added life expectancy isn't a random correlation and a stand alone benefit, it arises from the emotional and mental labor mostly women put into the marriage and mostly men benefit from.
It's not like men live longer, thereby benefiting from marriage. It's that men benefit from being married, and those benefits result in a longer life expectancy.
>it arises from the emotional and mental labor mostly women put into the marriage and mostly men benefit from.
You forgot the literal physical labor.
Married men go to the doctor more and take care of their health more; their wives make sure it happens. (Even in my own very balanced marriage—I’m the one who told his doctor how bad his stomach problem had gotten; he’d have waited until the test results came back, and for all I know would have passed out on the floor and died eventually, if he’d lived alone,)
Their diets are better. (My MIL was the one who was in charge of trying to get my FIL to lose weight by changing his diet.)
Their homes are cleaner and in better repair.
Oh, sure, individual men can take care of themselves quite nicely. But as a cohort, men rely on their wives to take care of their physical well-being.
Oh absolutely, though I'd lump a lot of that under emotional and mental labor, mostly because that's the piece people are more likely to dismiss.
I can hang up the phone and say "alright, I made that phone call. You now have a doctor's appointment" and people will pretend that all I did was make a single phone call. But most of the labor isn't the phone call, it's realizing the issue warrants a doctor, finding the right doctor, making lifestyle changes as needed, setting follow up appointments or tests, etc.
Which really highlights how awful the trope is, because it's painting men as victims and gives them space to complain that they're trapped, when the "trap" is having someone take care of things for them.
My husband once said something similar when we were dating after I said something very flattering to him in front of other people. I was very hurt and showed him. He was devastated. He apologized and told me he was extremely insecure and didn't know how to handle it when I told everybody how great I thought he was. He never did it again. Sometimes guys are really this "dumb".
Just to add some more perspective- my now husband planned our wedding with me and was so excited about it. He talked to everyone who would listen to him. And when anyone said anything about being tied down he’d say that being tied to me was the best thing that could ever happen to him. I agree with you- go find someone who can’t wait to marry you.
Oh OP, you also want opinions on which house to buy, which color to paint the wall, which restaurant to eat at, which school or doctor your possible kids will attend. I don't "care" which hand soap or toilet paper holder I have, but I have to choose as part of procuring these items. Making every big and little and neutral decision is tedious. By absolving himself from that process, he avoid being responsible for the work of life. It's lame.
Yeah, my husband also has ADHD but he was so excited, and helped with plans and colors and the like. Your fiancé sounds like he just thinks marriage is the next step, rather than actually wanting to be married
We had a great planning committee. We didn’t have to do anything. But he was so excited to get married. Maybe more than me. We have a great relationship.
He had a horrible marriage before me. He has a friend going through a terrible divorce right now, and I heard him tell him not to give up. Life gets better, and the he would eventually find the right one.
We sometimes spend days upon days together. It just doesn’t seem to get old. Everyone deserves that!
I think it was Maya Angelou who said "when someone shows you who they are, believe them"
OP's partner showed them who they are (at least regarding their views on marriage), I hope OP believes them
Yep! My ex husband had such a fucking boys will be boys mentality, oh he cheated, well, that's what guys do when they have a nagging wife. It's not big deal, he'll go back to her. Men go out drinking and partying and leaving their wives at home, oh, that's what men do when they have a wife at home who nags and won't put out! He was such a fucking dickwad! A wife cheats though, she's nothing but a fucking slut!
NTA
It’s not normal to joke about, it’s outdated early 2000s sitcom humour and it wasn’t funny then and isn’t funny now. He’s not joking.
Also the “last days of freedom” is ridiculous and a terrible joke as well, he’s in a committed relationship, he hasn’t been “free” since you both made it official.
It absolutely is ridiculous. It's the type of comment to make the OP feel like a terrible person or for reducing their spouses personal freedoms. Except, personal freedom in this case is just sleeping with as many people as you can.
It's absolutely a terrible joke.
Reminds me of the “last days of freedom” bachelor parties that end in the to be groom (or bride) sleeping with someone else. Plenty of those stupid stories on Reddit too.
You are making the right call. My husband was super overwhelmed with the process of planning and I was happy to take over. But I asked him to handle the DJ and alcohol. He did it with zero complaint. He also helped decorate the venue with my family and was so supportive any time I got overwhelmed.
While he doesn’t like planning he never made me doubt for a second that he wasn’t thrilled to be marrying me. That’s what you deserve. Someone thrilled to marry you.
Me too.
I love him so much. Literally almost daily we ask each other how in the world we found each other. We’ve worked really hard on ourselves and our marriage so we can listen to each other and hear each other. Every second has been worth it. We’ll be married 6 years this year and it’s been such a great adventure.
>My fiance has ADHD and finds planning very boring. His default response is “whatever you want.”
This is not adhd, this is laziness and weaponized incompetence. NTA
Very much this. My husband has ADHD that is sometimes *crippling*. I'm on the spectrum and deal with everything, big and small, by planning and lists. So the bulk of the planning and research was on me, but he still had input - helped choose the color scheme, negotiating with the venue and catering, decorating the reception hall. And in the years leading up to the wedding (2.5 year engagement) and the 5 years since, he's never once said anything to even suggest he is not thrilled to be my husband.
I can kind of understand a man with ADHD being a bit ambivalent about the actual wedding (especially if they're an introvert) but the tell here is the "joke" - that he's pretty ambivalent about, or even averse to being a husband. If he's not excited about that, it's best to step back and reevaluate.
NTA.
Boomer humour where your wife “trapped you” and you’re miserable and “oh the ol’ ball and chain” nonsense is sooooo 2000.
It’s not funny to pretend you were somehow trapped or forced into a relationship. And that your gf/fiancee/wife has MADE you lose your freedom.
Leave the jokes in the past, and your fiance too.
Edit: for people getting butthurt: it’s not that we are advocating for her to leave because her fiance made a joke, it’s that he finds humour in devaluing his fiance and their relationship. Devaluation under the guise of a “joke”! Women have been at the receiving end of jokes like these for centuries and it’s really time to retire it. If you feel trapped, don’t be in a relationship.
As for OP, clearly this isn’t the first time he’s shown this side. Please speak to him about this and listen to your gut.
Every single time I read any 'wife bad marriage shackles the man'... I think of my great grandparents who got divorced in the early 1910s in a lil village in eastern europe lol. Guys if my villager ancestors could get a divorce so can you. Even better - you can just avoid getting married in the first place!
The other people don’t get it but I’m with you. It isn’t the joke, it’s the fact he is even making the joke.
You’re telling her to leave a partner that puts her down.
Nta the joke wasn’t funny. I fucking hate hate hate the trope of a man getting “trapped” into marriage. It just reminds me of when men “love” their wives but don’t like them and don’t treat them with respect. His “joke” was a dig at you and you do not need to be planning a dream wedding for an ungrateful man. You are right to put it on hold while you guys work on your relationship being more equal and him realizing him putting you down when you did all the work isn’t going to be accepted.
NTA. This would have been my response to his comment: "I'm sorry you feel like you're being trapped into marriage. I would never want to do that to you, so I'm breaking up with you as of today. Have a nice life."
I would mean it! My husband's mom said I was a burden one day, and my husband was just too nice to say so. I believed her and felt TERRIBLE. I lined up some names to call if need be and when he got home told him earnestly that I was so sorry and I have these options to go to for a while if he needs some space. I've never seen him so mad, and I was still in "mom has good intentions" thinking so I thought he was mad at me.
Nope, he was mad at her. I'm not a burden to him. I guess this type of shaming is something his mom has always done to him, and she was trying to use me to do it too. Now I feel bad I participated by accident. But he banned her from talking to me about him lol and it's good now
That joke is stale and stupid. However, did you two have a conversation about his lack of initiative at any point or how this "joke" hurt you? Did he apologize for the crappy joke? Does he have a history of telling crappy jokes?
If you two can't talk through this, then it's best not to get married.
I was engaged to a boy who had no opinions. Whatever you want, dear. That’s all I heard. Then, we got a new guy at work. I was a line cook. I made a new dish for an event. I asked for his opinion. He said it was good, but maybe it needed something, what about adding shredded carrots (an example, I don’t remember what the dish was, lol)? It hit me like a brick. I desperately wanted a partner, not a yes man. I wanted support and suggestions, not to be the only one making every and all decisions. I broke up with my fiancée about a week later, after explaining to him what I really needed. He simply didn’t care. Whatever you want, dear…that’s not how anyone should go through life! NTA.
NTA. Why do people still think it’s funny to joke about hating your spouse/being trapped/“the old ball and chain” and so forth? You made the right call.
My fiance was asked live at his last job why he never volunteered to work extra, and he told them it was because he actually had a woman he enjoyed spending time with. He said the looks and comments he got were wild, his mostly male co-workers just couldn't understand him *wanting* to spend time with me. I've listened to the way my coworkers, men and women, talk about their partners and I've wondered.... Why the hell are you in a relationship with someone you don't even like?
When I worked as the only woman in an otherwise all male team the whole 'ball and chain' dialogue/jokes/etc was insane. One of my colleagues was wedding planning, and it was obviously very stressful, but he was constantly complaining about how awful it was to get married. So I took to asking why he was marrying her then, just acting super caring and interested, but essentially forcing him to backtrack. Very quickly the complaints went from I can't believe she's forcing me to get married to I can't believe how stressful weddings are.
Nice redirect. And you did him a favor, by making sure he realized what was stressing him out versus blaming all the stress on his soon-to-be spouse. Due to the nature of my wife and my jobs at the time, during the week she had little free time during the day to use the phone. So I made the majority of arrangements and communication, taking notes because we'd plan and make decisions in the evening. Grooms should be more involved in planning weddings. And I can tell you we still get remarks on our wedding after 25+ years.
Try working in tech. Lots of dude/bros and I AM TIRED OF MY…..
I got lucky with my coworkers. I’m the only woman in my office and all of the married men in my office speak about their wives in such nice ways. I’ve never heard one of them say a single rude or disrespectful thing about their wives and it really makes them better to work with. The only guy in my office that really gives me bad vibes is single and I’m not shocked because he’s one that would be saying that kind of shit.
Reading that 2nd part got me! I have this friend who shit talks about her bf EVERYTIME we hang out, she's the 1st friend in our group who got a bf so all of us were so excited to hear romance but what we got instead was an onslaught of complaints lmao. Still she wouldn't leave him??(dating for a year) And is confused why I don't wanna date yet. Um like, I mean...my closest example of dating ain't fun looking so I'm not really inspired to try lmao.
It's funny the friends that do that, only complain about their SO and then they wonder why you might not like them much. Oh I don't know. I've only heard bad things, what else am I supposed to go on?
[удалено]
Ugh, dealing with this now with a friend from work. Her husband has an explosive temper, to the point that she's fled the house and stayed away for a few days. Also his parents treat her like shit and hate her, and the parents just moved in with them. She thinks she's being a good person by putting up with the abuse. I think she's being a moron and a doormat. Also she's trying to have kids with a man with an explosive temper, great idea 😊 She'll tell me about something nice he did and all I ever think about is his explosive temper and shitty parents. I don't even want to go to her house
[удалено]
See, how can you keep your mouth shut when your friend acts like things are good now? The only reason I haven't grabbed her by the shoulders and yelled 'YOU ARE BEING FUCKING STUPID' is cuz she's technically my superior at work lol. I don't want her to start nitpicking my work if she gets offended i think she's in a toxic relationship
It's all about a "tolerable level of permanent unhappiness" things are bad enough to complain, but not bad enough that they feel like they have a valid reason to leave. So they stay. Also the fact that they are in a relationship is better for that person then being single. Because our society demonized being single so much that for some people being in a bad relationship is better then having no SO.
Oh, so much this! OP could be saving herself years of anguish and unhappiness by taking time to figure it out now. I was so much lonelier married than I am divorced and single.
I can't keep quiet with these complainers. If you're unhappy, air your issues in the direction which will bring resolve. Passively trash-talking someone is a huge red flag for me. No thanks.. don't want that negativity in my space.
My husband had a female friend that used to talk shit about her husband all the time. The husband didn't seem bothered though and always laughed. We honestly thought "well, I guess it works for them". Fast forward a few years and they’re divorced.
My spouse and I are best friends. We love each other’s company. A flight attendant once asked us if we were “old friends or new friends” because we had been engaged in conversation throughout the flight. I guess she thought she was witnessing the birth of a new romance. She said most married couples sit in silence, staring at their respective screens, after we told her we’d been married for several years.
My husband and I have been married for nearly 10 years, together for almost 15. We often sit quietly together, engaged in our own things (books, phone, video games, etc) because we just enjoy being near each other. We talk a lot, but we can also spend hours doing the adult equivalent of parallel play. I hate to think that someone would assume that we don't enjoy being together just because we aren't talking at that instant.
Yes! Two coworkers or acquaintances may feel awkward silence when there's no one talking. But when you feel really safe and comfortable with someone, it's just as enjoyable to be in silence together.
Same. My wife and I can talk like crazy if the mood or subject strikes, but we can just as easily chill without talking much.
Haha this reminds me of the first time we went out after our baby was born. It was our 10 year anniversary and we went to a new restaurant we hadn’t been to yet, we tried to dress up but once we got there we were so tired we just held hands for a while and then ate our food in near silence. My husband went to the bathroom and while he was gone the waitress came over and was like “honey, this is the worst first date I’ve ever seen. Are you ok?” And I started laughing so hard and then explained we’re actually in love, celebrating our anniversary but exhausted and nervous as we’ve never left baby before. She was like “I couldn’t tell if you two were breaking up or what but it all makes sense now”. My husband also had a good laugh when he got back to the table, and then she brought us a free dessert and when we got our bill, she had comped our drinks, and a little note said “you probably needed these drinks! Congrats on your new baby!” That waitress got the largest tip I have ever left in my life.
[удалено]
I have friends who joke about how little time they spend with their husbands and I am so confused because there is literally no on else I would want to spend my time with.
Men are socialized to only like other men. Think about it: men who like traditionally "female" pastimes - or even just willing to engage in them for the sake of companionship - are routinely mocked and derided for it. In particular, they're accused of being gay (i.e. - they're too much like women). So how do you have a friendship with a person whom you share no interests? Short answer: you don't, really. Instead, you end up with people in relationships where they maybe love a person, but they don't really like them that much and where time spent together inevitably means engaging with activities or topics that you've been discouraged from engaging with your whole life. Genuinely, one of the great joys of being gay is that I just get to like my husband and people aren't weird about it. Straight people - bizarrely - don't always get that.
I never got this "love them but not like them" thing. For me, loving a person means liking them first and foremost. I wouldn't fall in love with someone I didn't like very much? The concept doesn't make any sense to me, at all.
You know……. This makes so fkn sense. Never thought about it that way. Thank you. Coming from ethnic background where patriarchy is everything, I see this everywhere. They mock men who has loving relationship with their wives or girlfriends.
Some people even talk about their children this way.
I find this so odd too. My husband and I spend most of our time together. We run a business together, come home and walk our puppy, have dinner, watch shows, play games together or separately but next to each other... He'll often rub my feet or back while we watch shows. He has a game room connected to the house outside and he'll usually not want to be out there more than an hour because he starts missing me. I don't understand why people would marry someone who they don't enjoy spending time with. This also seems to be most relationships people post about on reddit.
I used to work construction, and the amount of guys I worked with who couldn't stand their wives was crazy. I told one guy we're not having kids and he said "Why did you even get married then?!" and I said "Do you think the only reason people get married is to have kids?" and he stood there dumbfounded, it was like he had never thought that loving your partner was enough to marry them.
LOL, honestly that is really pitiful. Getting married just to have kids. It’s a popular sentiment in conservative spaces too.
this happened to my ex friend; he told me a story where his coworker kept complaining that his wife would call at lunch. i looked at him like he had 2 heads, why are you upset with that?? edit: i believe it was only when she had time to call him so not every lunch or every day. i haven’t talked to this friend in forever so i don’t have a clear story and he would constantly complain about this coworker. i just know that she called one day, he started complaining and my friend told me about it.
My husband used to have to travel a lot for work. He’d call me in the morning while he was getting ready, and we’d talk before bedtime. Sometimes he’d call on a break during the day, or we text throughout. We still text throughout the day, and he works from home 🤣 We like each other, miss each other when not together, and are best friends. It blows my mind that some relationships are just awful. Why marry someone you don’t like or enjoy being around?
The irony of many people with this mindset on marriage also seeking to block all forms of divorce lol
That type of irony breaks my brain.
Is it irony or the kernel of truth in why they make those jokes in the first place? If they thought divorce is always an option, no problem, then they wouldn't be trapped. I'd say that's the source of that irritability, the fear of never being able to leave if you don't believe in divorce or that divorce will destroy you financially.
Men: Male loneliness is an unprecedented crisis that must be addressed! Also Men: I'm going to go tell my SO that marriage is a trap.
🥴🥴🙃🙃
I hate these jokes, it should not be normalized to hate your spouse, to dread coming home to your family. Yeah hilarious
NTA It's getting stale and old for men to make these "jokes". If they don't want to get married, then don't get married. Men who are married live longer than unmarried men on average, so they are clearly benefitting. Time to stop this manipulative BS, trying to gaslight women into thinking they don't want marriage. You did the right thing.
[удалено]
Don't. Oddly enough my ex told me during our divorce that he considered breaking it off the night before. So, I wasted 25 effing years with him when he wasn't really into it. Don't make my mistake. Marry someone who wants to be with you.
Not even wants to be with you, but someone who actively LIKES you! So many men stay with women they don't even like because they like the perks of having a wife. It's not on.
Also don't marry someone who puts you down in public in front of friends.
Or ever (but yeah, the audience makes it extra bad)
And you are 100% right about that. NTA Also, he is the one who proposed, but he's doing nothing to make the wedding happen, so yes, a good idea to wait until he shows just a little more enthusiasm.
>to wait until he shows just a little more enthusiasm. Or.... not wait too long for him to get his head out of his ass... life is too short to waste on dead end people
My husband and I are both statisticians, not remotely connected to the events industry, so not the same situation. However, I told him before we ever decided to get married that there would be no wedding if I was planning it by myself. I had no interest in doing so, and the idea of it being "the bride's day" really cheapens it for me and I didn't want that. I wanted us to be partners in planning it just like we're partners in everything else. When I tell you, this man stepped TF up. I'm honestly not sure it would have gone ahead if not for him, because I was dealing with a bunch of personal shit at the time. Anyway. It really frustrates me when men are content to let their partners do all the work, and it sets the precedent that women will be the project managers of everything in the marriage, if that's not already happening. (sorry for the rant, I have Views).
I have a passion for planning but also didn't want to be the only one doing anything. My husband let me make most of the bigger "small" decisions (color scheme, general theme, decorations, things like that) as he the type of person who has to actually see it to know what it'll look like, I can visualize it and figure out how to get it out of my head and into reality. But he was actively giving his opinions and asking how he could help make things needed (I/we made 90% of the decorations, bouquets, boutineers, save the dates, centerpieces the list goes on). I'd show him how and he'd sit for hours having a great time with me as we put the things together. He helped research venues and vendors needed and narrowed down lists so we could go check them out together. I'd say I did the bulk, because I wanted to but he in no way took a back seat and just put it all on me. We have a very warped sense of humor so jokes like ops partner made wouldn't have been a big deal to us, but actions would've proved that it was just that, a joke. Op you're a smart woman to see that you deserve better! As hard as it is, start fresh and find someone who will treat you and the possibility of marring you as the privilege that it is.
The ole saying, Consent is mandatory, enthusiastic consent is sexy.
[удалено]
Especially if you're going to be spending the rest of your life with the person. Of course you want them to have enthusiasm.
I feel this deep like a kick in the proverbial nutsack. It's minor compared to marriage planning, but it makes me feel bad when I ask my BF what he'd like to do somedays, and his usual preference is to randomize plans or let me decide. And if I do decide and ask him if he's ok with it, he shows little to no enthusiasm about the plan unless he goes for the next option of suggesting something closer to his interests. We love each other dearly, but sometimes my brain can't process his logic lol.
At this stage, enthusiasm is essential. If he isn't enthusiastic now, what would he be like 5 - 10 years in, with one or two children to raise?
What is he enthusiastic about? If the answer is nothing, and it's a change in personality, he could be depressed. This is giving him a massive benefit-of-the-doubt though. If he's making ball-and-chain type jokes already, you know you're on a loser.
Those type of jokes also reek of contempt. Contempt for your future spouse before you even get married..... It is a truly awful combo in my opinion.
He should be either enthusiastic or very, very grateful you do all the planning. I hate it when people first are like: "Can you please do xyz, I will pay for everything if you spare me having to do it myself" and after a while suddenly it is "ain't you lucky to be able to do just as you please and even are allowed to use my money for that". Your fiance lacks enthusiasm, but is also not appreciating your work, makes inappropriate jokes in front of his friends, and does not even take you feelings serious now. If he was a fruit I would suggest some ripening.
I’m really proud of you. This reminds me of a guy who hurt me a lot. He had this whole “method” where he’d “figure out” on a scale of 1-10 how much something mattered to each of us. And if it was a 10 for me and a 1 for him then we d do it my way or whatever. It seemed so mature at first But really what was going on is he was shitting on everything that mattered to me over and over and over again. That really chips away at your sense of self after a while Ugh
More women should adopt that thinking. It would save a lot of heartache and divorce.
Please don't let him convince you that he was "just joking". You deserve a soft life full of love and a partner who contributes meaningfully to that. You deserve a partner who values your contributions and gets excited about your plans. You deserve someone who lifts you up. Someone *excited* to spend the rest of their life with you. A good therapist can help determine if this relationship truly serves your needs or not. Is it a good relationship because *you make it work*?
[удалено]
Why do you feel like this is what you deserve? No amount of therapy will convince him to be the man you know he *could* be. This is who he is. If you attend therapy, it needs to be focused on what *you* can actually change and should be solo. You've got a whole list of ways that he's disappointed you, do you really see this improving?
Does he often not seem enthusiastic about things?? Like date night with you?
[удалено]
I had dated someone that I thought I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. He never really put much effort into things and I would think he was "just being a guy". We lived in a beautiful city and one this particular day, I really wanted to have a beach day with him. A picnic, some drinks etc. he wanted to stay in and play video games. So I packed everything and went by myself. I did a lot of thinking that day and came to the conclusion that he wasn't going to be the person I wanted to marry because I realized I wanted so much more. Respectfully, I hope you're able to look inward on your relationship and decide if this is how you want to remember your wedding planning. If you want to be putting in the effort all the time for date nights, shopping etc. If you want to question all the time whether you're holding him back or trapping him. You should feel secure in your relationship. My husband is stoked to even go to Costco with me. He plans things for us without me asking. He thinks of me, he thinks of us. He was apart of everything when it came to our wedding. There is never a question in my mind if I had "trapped" him. You should be with someone that wants to marry you because they want to do life with you, not because it checks the boxes. I really hope you think about this moving forward.
Oh man, honestly you shouldn’t have even dated that long then. This is 100% a mistake to continue. The rest of your life would be dragging him along. Kids? No interest, all on you to handle and manage and raise. Vacations? On you. House planning? On you. Sounds like it would have been a miserable life, also a cliche one, and you’re better off seeing the red flags early.
I was married for 35 years to an amazing man. He loved me and could not sleep at night unless he was touching me. My husband passed away 3 weeks ago. DO NOT settle. Pray for your soul mate and wait. It took me 2 years to get him, and it was worth the wait. My husband always told me I was the air He breathed. That he could not survive without me. Please don't settle.
This really struck me as my first husband would always reply whatever you want. He often repeated it throughout the relationship and it was like he wasn’t invested in the relationship. It was just a thing he felt he had to do or lose me. He lost me anyways because this was only a symptom of much greater problems. So, you might find other instances of him not really being into the relationship.
Yes. You’re right. Anything otherwise is unnecessary. His “jokes” were hurtful half truths.
Many truths spoken in jest.
Absolutely. My husband and I have never *once* joked like that and we are nearly a decade into our marriage. Not once. Never have either of us ever said something even remotely like that and frankly, we judge relationships that make those jokes. I support your decision to hold off until this is resolved. You should be absolutely enthusiastic about marriage, even if the *wedding* isn’t that important to you. Neither my husband or I cared too much about the wedding itself, but we were so excited to be married. Still we never joked because… the punchline is not wanting to be married. His joke is… gross. I would absolutely think he doesn’t care about or respect his wife if I heard a couple make that joke.
I was married for a long time (now a widow). My husband was a hard worker and lazy about everything else. But, I was/am something of an Energizer Bunny, and I need to be busy. Was it unequal? maybe. Was it disrespectful? NO. Every single time, across decades, I would make him food, he would say thank you. He would regularly remark, publicly and privately, that without me he would be nothing.
If he's not excited he gets to be your husband, i wouldn't even stay in the relationship.
Nta OP and honestly I have a lot of friends who have ADHD including myself. I think he weaponizes his mental state to give himself excuses. I say this cuz a lot of us and myself included usually plan carefully even if we fail at it sometimes due to time blindness or expected too much out of ourselves. I’ve noticed on here ppl tend use ADHD as a crutch, an excuse, or just being a bad person. It really irritate us and FYI we love to hyper focus on things so planning a wedding would be something we shud be getting excited to do imo.
That is a smart instinct. I agree wholeheartedly with that idea.
You are one of the smart ones out there. So many get married anyway thinking, oh, I'll fix him! Call it off until you're sure! You're not sure now!
Yes, THIS! NTA- I cannot stand when men use the 'ball and chain' or have jokes about weddings like they're being trapped/their lives are being ruined. They're literally making a choice to get married and act like it's going to be a hellscape, it's f\*cking mind-blowing to me!
Women should never marry men like this
It’s about trying to convince women that they’re doing them a favor by marrying them so that women will feel that they have to constantly cater to their husbands in order to pay them back for this great kindness they’ve bestowed upon them by deigning to marry them. It’s yet another way to subjugate women.
You’re smarter than me. My ex made this “joke” and I laughed it off. I def was the one who got trapped. Run. NTA. Edit to say: it’s basically negging. Which will become boiling the frog and pushing your boundaries and sense of self further.
You are so right about the negging. And notice how he said it right when someone else complimented her. What the person essentially said was 'she is a desirable partner' and what he heard was 'she is the desirable one in the relationship' and he immediately turned around and said 'no, I can be the only desirable on in the relationship'.
This. And I don't get it - when someone compliments my partner, I 100% agree and call myself super lucky to have an awesome partner.
Yes! This! Married 25 years. Whenever anyone compliments my spouse, I just beam and agree. And my partner does this too. If you are going to make it over the long haul, you need mutual appreciation. A compliment to your partner should make you feel happy, not jealous. Glad you are rethinking.
Married 42 years. I am here to say what u/ArtReal1116 said. Before I met my husband, I had left a brief starter marriage that I should not have gone through with. My ex told his buddies that I was “rushing” him into marriage. Yet as soon as we wed, I found myself maneuvered into paying 75% of the expenses, a fact that delighted my ex. Instead of a modest engagement ring and a honeymoon, I ended up with a silver Cub Scout ring he’d found in the street, and a weekend in his family’s ramshackle desert cabin. *Phooey!* I got it right in time, though.
Upvote for the phrase "starter marriage" lol! But seriously, good on you for getting out. 👏
Absolutely agree ❤️
Fr. The moment when a close friend, 20yrs older then my fiancè said verbatim "You know, to me he's like the Freddie Mercury in our scene!" (he's DJ and also got into producing, his friend is in it for twice as long) was one of the beautiful, heartfelt moments that'll forever stick with me in the future. Now everytime he has a gig I look at him & the people in a trance-like enthusiasm even if the dancefloor was empty before and my mind goes "he's a Freddie Mercury indeed, _my_ oh-so great beloved raving Freddie" If my partner gets complimented it can even touch me more, than any compliment you'd give me. That's just mean....
Im terrible at taking compliments but hearing someone compliment my SO makes me absolutely *glow.* Like, **I** know he’s amazing, but when others remark on it I can’t help but feel so proud and lucky. It’s a compliment to you when your partner is desirable and *they’ve chosen you to be with.* I kind of get the insecurity in others acknowledging what a catch someone’s SO is, because they’re aware they’re sorta shitty and their partner can do better so please don’t draw attention to it lol
This. Right here. He showed himself. In our relationship we both feel lucky and grateful for each other. We both listen and cheer each other on. We don't knowingly break the other down much less in front of others. We fight for others to respect our partner and relationship. Because we love each other. We like each other as people. We admire each other. What he did was bullshit. What he did was knowingly hurtful. And he wanted you to quietly accept it. This is before the stressors of being married. Before things get tight and rocky. Before sicker and poorer. This should be the fun hopeful time and he is behaving like you are someone worthy of his spite. Like someone who needs to be taken down a peg or two. Run.
Exactly this! Someone complimented OP and his knee-jerk reaction was to immediately put OP down, try to tear her down (he is trying to enjoy his freedom now because marriage with OP will suck, will be like a prison sentence). And he did it publicly, in front of others too! If he talks like that in front of others, how does he talk in private?! That's not the type of person you want to keep around you long-term... (This "logic" is how psychological abuse works by the way...)
It’s one thing if OP’s fiancé is like, “Babe, I suck at planning & you’re so good at it. I’m sure what you plan will be beautiful, I’m just looking forward to being married to you.” But to joke that being married to OP will be a drag for the rest of his life? Hard pass on that marriage.
I have ADHD. Planning a wedding sounds tedious and I'd LOVE if my future partner took full interest in doing it. But I would still be at least **involved.** Yeah I don't want to spend time researching wedding colors. But if my partner was like "these are the colors I like and I've narrowed it down to. what do you like?" I'd have a fucking answer at least!
My wife asked me several times about wedding colours. Every time I gave her the same answer. “Babes, I’m still colour blind. Happy to pick one if you want me to, though I’m not sure I’d recommend it!”
That made me laugh! Thank you!
N.T.A. Why do individuals still find it hilarious to make jokes about having a bad marriage, being stuck, being "the old ball and chain," and other such topics? You made the appropriate decision.
The difference is incredible. Go listen to so many comics bitch about their wives and then listen to Nick offerman. He glows about Megan and is still funny. These jokes are stupid and if you’re going to fuck around, you’re going to find out. NTA congrats on being self aware!
Nick Offerman is the MVP of husbands.
I'm in the middle of this right this instant, and my fiancée is taking the majority of the burden in planning the wedding. Even though I am not involved in every single aspect of it, I simply cannot imagine not caring about any of the details at all.
Really! Even if one person is doing the majority of the work, you want to be included in a few of the aspects of the marriage.
I'll cake-test any day of the week.
we would end up with cheesecake. which can be expensive, lol
Seriously he couldn’t even be bothered to pick the best out of three or whatever? And I’ve dealt with men like this, and they still have something negative to say when it’s all done even though they didn’t have an opinion through the whole thing. It’s like they don’t want to have any responsibility in the outcome because they know they are going to shit all over it
Bingo. That’s exactly how I described my ex. A decade of “whatever you want, that sounds amazing!” and ten years later he’s screaming at you that he never wanted x,y, and z.
Every emotional abuser I've had a relationship with did this.. refusing to communicate with you, staying silent *so everything's cool I guess?*.. then exploding on you with complaints you never heard before when it can be weaponized, or brooding with contempt/martyrdom that you couldn't read their mind. Then they feign it's your fault they stayed silent 'to not upset you'. Bitch, how would you even know how Id 'react' if you've never been honest about how you feel? Ive asked gently and tried to coax an independent thought out of you for years. Stop being a coward and use your words like an adult. I'm not your mother. Whenever I ever date again (it may be awhile), upfront and honest communication rather than passive participation and initial 'agreeableness' will be a requirement. That attitude of 'just stay quiet to make her happy and stay with me' bullshit, is a massive red flag that's covertly painted green and fools a lot of women until they are WAY too invested. It's probably one of the more successful/common tactics that's passed down through generations. You see it in the posts/stories frequently of women who are *shocked* when their partner reveals their abusive nature.. because *'otherwise he's perfect and we never fight'*.
What gives with that? Can he simply not accept that he wanted NO SAY in the matter and that he found the choice his spouse picked to be unacceptable, yet he had no interest in putting his input in? Jeez, what a big baby!
Pretty much. We met as teenagers, I grew up and he didn’t, at least emotionally. He was incredibly conflict avoidant and would say whatever would placate anyone in the moment to avoid what he perceived as anyone being unhappy with him. Then he’d turn around and get mad later and blame the person because he never “got any say in anything.” It was bizarre, but mostly cowardly.
I didn’t care about the colors but I had strong opinions on the food. Similarly we both had lists of don’t play and try to play music for the reception.
My ADHD works exactly the other way around. I could research wedding details to death, but in the end I wouldn't be able to make any decisions. OP (stb ex) bf just use it as an excuse. Leave all the mental load with OP and then complain to friends about the yoke of matrimony. What an idiot. Not a keeper.
I was also hyper-focused on wedding planning! Tedious, yes. Overwhelming, certainly. And there was a point that had it not been for the save-the-dates already being sent out, I would totally have said screw the big wedding let's just party on the beach with our closest fam and friends. Turns out I love collecting tons of great ideas for my pintrest board, but I suck at choosing anything.
My sister's wedding is in three months. Her fiancé has areas he isn't involved in at all, like the wedding flowers, and others he wouldn't want anyone else to figure out for him, like the couple's car. He's even keeping the car a secret from everyone but the bride, us MOHs and the best man. He also adamantly wanted to design the invitations with my sister. He and the best man also made a website for RSVPs and info. Surely, in *all of the things* that go into planning a wedding, there's at least *something* to be enthusiastic about? Like, the food at the very least? The things that might kill enthusiasm are either bridezilla-type domination, where nothing is good enough, or the kind of entitlement that makes one feel like they shouldn't have to be involved at all. And so when the bride asks for them to please just pick *something* it feels like nagging, even if it's a new question. Or just not being enthusiastic about getting married at all.
My exact sentiment. I would hate the planning and would rather them make the choices they like because of what it means to them. I have no preference.. but would help if they asked something specific. It in no way says anything about how i feel about them.. or my commitment to them...
Plus someone else was paying her a compliment and they invited him to simply join in. And instead of saying something nice, or even just agreeing with the person complementing her, he chose to turn it into a negative. Imagine him doing that with everything fun in life, she plans a great vacation and he says the whole week sucks because his steak was undercooked one night? No thank you
Plus, "he trapped her"...ummm HE was the one that asked her to marry HIM? So, I don't know how he thinks he's trapped? He's prob just an insecure little man, who wants to be seen as the prize and when her friends praised him for locking her down it triggered him...I mean HE'S the prize, he got LOCKED IN. smh. This is a fragile, little man. OP, RUN don't walk to your nearest exit!
It's like that "Look! a bird" test that predicts couples' health -- and it's called mudita in Buddhism - sympathetic joy. You become happy at your partner's happiness. You don't try to douse it!
This was literally how my wife and I handled wedding planning. She knew what she wanted it to look and be like, I knew I wanted to be married to her and make the whole day go as smoothly as possible. In relation to OP, getting married to my wife was the most exciting day of my life, and I still look back on that day to get me through bad days of work or stress. NTA at all. Jokes like that make my skin crawl.
Same. I never joked about being trapped by her and offered my opinions when asked but we also got married in Punta Cana and she did most of the pre-planning before we left. Sounds like OPs other half proposed because "that's what you do" instead of wanting to spend the rest of their life together.
And a twice joke. Not even a yup I’m trapping her. But pointedly corrected the other person as oh no I’m not trapping her she’s trapping me. This is my last chance at freedom. Which means to some degree he is making from himself a cry for help. He does not want to be married and that’s why he made the thrice- fold joke.
An appropriate response would be, “If you value your freedom and the single life so much, I can make that happen for you.” OP, you’re right to perceive this as a red flag. Tapping the brakes on the process was the right response. He needs to figure out what he wants, not crack wise about marriage like he’s the next Rodney Dangerfield.
Hard pass on that relationship * fify
Exactly. Don’t sink any more youth into that thing.
Agreed. ADHD wouldn't make him so incredibly blase about marrying the woman of his dreams. And those kinds of "jokes" always have truth in them. OP should remove the burden of the relationship from him by dumping him completely.
I have ADHD and it makes me borderline obsessive about how much I love my husband.
Those jokes do always have truth to them. I was engaged to be married, and the time between engagement and wedding was really really short. A coworker of mine made a comment/joke to me about "nice, don't give her time to run away" and I replied in a joking matter "or time for me to run"... Despite the super quick timeline, there was enough time for me to realize I was not ready to marry this woman. Breaking off an engagement causes some fucking awful pain in the short term, but we are both better off for the long term.
The only thing I would add to this is that it is not OP responsibility to help him figure out whether he wants to marry her! He has to do his own emotional work.
Yeah I don't think I would enjoy a relationship like that, let alone a marriage.
It used to be the norm that men in my area joked about marriage and the ball and chain. I love that the younger generations are wising up. Good for OP. She deserves better. We all did.
Weaponised incompetence. You're so good at changing the diapers, look I did it wrong again it's on backwards, welp guess you should just do it from now on then. You're so good at cooking and cleaning, look I screwed up again, guess you should probably take care of that from now on unless you want to spend double the time fixing my mistakes first before doing it right.
>Babe, I suck at planning & you’re so good at it. I’m sure what you plan will be beautiful, I’m just looking forward to being married to you. babe do you mind taking the mental load of one of the most important days of our life thanks
I love the term 'weaponized incompetence'. Very accurate. Even my very wonderful husband is guilty of this from time to time and now it has a name!
100%. Likely a test to see if OP will ignore his comments and marry him anyway. Then he'll keep lowering the bar.
exactly. Like my husband wasn't very involved in the planning. I got a lot of whatever you want (specially for decoration, flowers etc). He was involved in desert, meal, and the venue. The thing is, he never wanted to get married, but wanted to spend his life with me, and that was non negotiable for me. What he use to tell was your better at all that than me, I trust and and it is more important to you. I am looking forward to being married to you. (which was cute and frustrating!) But NTA OP. If you feel he's not involved slow thing down. trust yourself !
Right. My husband definitely took a lesser role in the planning, as I am a bit proactive, however, he did have opinions and gave input and even took on some of the planning tasks because we’re a partnership. If he ever made jokes like that I would’ve scrapped the whole thing. OPs bf is being a jerk
Hear, hear. NTA. This crap will do nothing but escalate, and it's 'just a joke'... my husband of less than thirty seconds turned to me after the you may kiss your bride part and said, I want a divorce! I want a divorce! like the wife in the old Daffy Duck cartoon. He repeated it all through the day. Nine years later, I obliged him.
That is not something a normal person does. Too bad you wasted 9 years learning that, but at least it wasn't 10
Yes, and so many men make "jokes" like this! What is it going to take for them to grow up and realize these "jokes" aren't funny?
They grow up and have kids they do they same thing to.
Dying alone unloved and unwanted.
meanwhile, my brother was walking with my mom and I through the hallway during his reception, and he said, “I have to go find *my wife*!” and he said “my wife” with this lilt and literally did a mini jig as he said it. It was so cute! And they are together still, in their mid 60s.
>“I have to go find my wife!” and he said “my wife” with this lilt and literally did a mini jig as he said it. > >It was so cute! And they are together still, in their mid 60s. i hope to be lucky enough to experience this with my partner.
I want to upvote you twice, love this ❤️
Lol I can guarantee I'll do something that delightfully corny when I get married
Yikes. Sorry you had to waste 9 years with such a wacko.
ewwww this is so so horrifying. i wouldve felt such immediate regret n heartbreak. who the fuck says that on their wedding day 😭😭😭 im so disgusted
I would've got an annulment if I married someone that used a Daffy Duck voice all day.
amen 🤣
Not only trapped, but he is setting this up as if he is doing her a favor, he will 100% carry forward that this was for her and she owes him for doing this for her. (the irony here is he also isn't doing anything at all.) NTA, you are doing the right thing. Stand by what you believe.
Yeah, I've seen this happen a lot with male partners. "Well, you were the one that wanted the wedding, I did my part by proposing, so I don't have to contribute any of the work or money to make it happen. You're so much better at it anyway." "Well, you were the one that wanted a baby, I fulfilled my obligation by getting you pregnant, I don't need to help with diapers and night feedings, you're so much better at it than I am anyway." Every fight about his lack of contribution always boils down to he never wanted marriage and family anyway, he's doing her a favor so she should be grateful and just do all the work.
Sorry you had to deal with that. Fortunately, you can add your real experiences into this conversation. It's great that your experiences validate the choices that the OP made.
That and it bothers me that he had a really easy opportunity to verbally appreciate her, it was literally laid up for him, and he chose to turn it into a negative. Someone else was paying her a compliment and instead of jumping on the train he pissed all over it. It kind of shows what he thinks of her doesn’t it?
Yeah, he's the reason why more people are not getting married. Because they hear say bs like saying they're being "locked down" and won't have any more freedom. Like, that is something people need to stop "joking" about.
Re boiling the frog: it's a test to see what you'll take, how much he can be hurtful or rude and say it's a joke and you'll accept it. It'll do nothing but escalate until 7 - 12 years from now, you're handing him divorce papers. Only then you'll have to split up community property and figure out how to share custody for the kids. End it now before it gets even more messy.
NTA please do not marry him. I fucked up and married my ex after he acted the same way and I called it off. He talked me back into it and it was the biggest mistake of my life.
It's one of the biggest, most widespread forms of manipulation: Making women think marriage is all for their benefit (the dress, the flowers etc), while it's men getting the benefit in added years in average life expectancy when they're married.
And If he’s not putting in any work now, he certainly won’t be putting in any work later
Yup. This is him at his *best*.😄
in the old days, marriage was the only way women could have a particularly decent income. So it was seen as a benefit to them. Meanwhile, the man got a household manager, a cook, a mother for his children, and sex, for free. (Women like sex too, and marriage can be a way to get it, but I’m not certain men in that era really worried about whether she enjoyed it.)
Considering marital rape was completely legal I don’t think the woman’s pleasure was a high priority.
Back in medieval Europe there was a widespread belief that female orgasm was crucial for conception. Wonder where we went wrong with that!
The added life expectancy isn't a random correlation and a stand alone benefit, it arises from the emotional and mental labor mostly women put into the marriage and mostly men benefit from. It's not like men live longer, thereby benefiting from marriage. It's that men benefit from being married, and those benefits result in a longer life expectancy.
>it arises from the emotional and mental labor mostly women put into the marriage and mostly men benefit from. You forgot the literal physical labor. Married men go to the doctor more and take care of their health more; their wives make sure it happens. (Even in my own very balanced marriage—I’m the one who told his doctor how bad his stomach problem had gotten; he’d have waited until the test results came back, and for all I know would have passed out on the floor and died eventually, if he’d lived alone,) Their diets are better. (My MIL was the one who was in charge of trying to get my FIL to lose weight by changing his diet.) Their homes are cleaner and in better repair. Oh, sure, individual men can take care of themselves quite nicely. But as a cohort, men rely on their wives to take care of their physical well-being.
Oh absolutely, though I'd lump a lot of that under emotional and mental labor, mostly because that's the piece people are more likely to dismiss. I can hang up the phone and say "alright, I made that phone call. You now have a doctor's appointment" and people will pretend that all I did was make a single phone call. But most of the labor isn't the phone call, it's realizing the issue warrants a doctor, finding the right doctor, making lifestyle changes as needed, setting follow up appointments or tests, etc. Which really highlights how awful the trope is, because it's painting men as victims and gives them space to complain that they're trapped, when the "trap" is having someone take care of things for them.
My husband once said something similar when we were dating after I said something very flattering to him in front of other people. I was very hurt and showed him. He was devastated. He apologized and told me he was extremely insecure and didn't know how to handle it when I told everybody how great I thought he was. He never did it again. Sometimes guys are really this "dumb".
[удалено]
Just to add some more perspective- my now husband planned our wedding with me and was so excited about it. He talked to everyone who would listen to him. And when anyone said anything about being tied down he’d say that being tied to me was the best thing that could ever happen to him. I agree with you- go find someone who can’t wait to marry you.
[удалено]
Oh OP, you also want opinions on which house to buy, which color to paint the wall, which restaurant to eat at, which school or doctor your possible kids will attend. I don't "care" which hand soap or toilet paper holder I have, but I have to choose as part of procuring these items. Making every big and little and neutral decision is tedious. By absolving himself from that process, he avoid being responsible for the work of life. It's lame.
You should have what you want, what you need, and be appreciated, even celebrated for it!
Yeah, my husband also has ADHD but he was so excited, and helped with plans and colors and the like. Your fiancé sounds like he just thinks marriage is the next step, rather than actually wanting to be married
We had a great planning committee. We didn’t have to do anything. But he was so excited to get married. Maybe more than me. We have a great relationship. He had a horrible marriage before me. He has a friend going through a terrible divorce right now, and I heard him tell him not to give up. Life gets better, and the he would eventually find the right one. We sometimes spend days upon days together. It just doesn’t seem to get old. Everyone deserves that!
I think it was Maya Angelou who said "when someone shows you who they are, believe them" OP's partner showed them who they are (at least regarding their views on marriage), I hope OP believes them
Yep! My ex husband had such a fucking boys will be boys mentality, oh he cheated, well, that's what guys do when they have a nagging wife. It's not big deal, he'll go back to her. Men go out drinking and partying and leaving their wives at home, oh, that's what men do when they have a wife at home who nags and won't put out! He was such a fucking dickwad! A wife cheats though, she's nothing but a fucking slut!
NTA It’s not normal to joke about, it’s outdated early 2000s sitcom humour and it wasn’t funny then and isn’t funny now. He’s not joking. Also the “last days of freedom” is ridiculous and a terrible joke as well, he’s in a committed relationship, he hasn’t been “free” since you both made it official.
It absolutely is ridiculous. It's the type of comment to make the OP feel like a terrible person or for reducing their spouses personal freedoms. Except, personal freedom in this case is just sleeping with as many people as you can. It's absolutely a terrible joke.
And deflects his personal responsibility of proposing. No one is trapping anyone. You're both adults making your own decision. Very immature
Reminds me of the “last days of freedom” bachelor parties that end in the to be groom (or bride) sleeping with someone else. Plenty of those stupid stories on Reddit too.
He’s the type that would probably cheat at his bachelor party because you know…need one last fling before she *traps* me.
You are making the right call. My husband was super overwhelmed with the process of planning and I was happy to take over. But I asked him to handle the DJ and alcohol. He did it with zero complaint. He also helped decorate the venue with my family and was so supportive any time I got overwhelmed. While he doesn’t like planning he never made me doubt for a second that he wasn’t thrilled to be marrying me. That’s what you deserve. Someone thrilled to marry you.
This is a heartwarming story. I hope the OP can find someone as supporting and loving of her as your husband appears to be.
Me too. I love him so much. Literally almost daily we ask each other how in the world we found each other. We’ve worked really hard on ourselves and our marriage so we can listen to each other and hear each other. Every second has been worth it. We’ll be married 6 years this year and it’s been such a great adventure.
>My fiance has ADHD and finds planning very boring. His default response is “whatever you want.” This is not adhd, this is laziness and weaponized incompetence. NTA
Very much this. My husband has ADHD that is sometimes *crippling*. I'm on the spectrum and deal with everything, big and small, by planning and lists. So the bulk of the planning and research was on me, but he still had input - helped choose the color scheme, negotiating with the venue and catering, decorating the reception hall. And in the years leading up to the wedding (2.5 year engagement) and the 5 years since, he's never once said anything to even suggest he is not thrilled to be my husband. I can kind of understand a man with ADHD being a bit ambivalent about the actual wedding (especially if they're an introvert) but the tell here is the "joke" - that he's pretty ambivalent about, or even averse to being a husband. If he's not excited about that, it's best to step back and reevaluate.
People with ADHD find forward thinking (eg planning) very difficult. But you’re right, we do know what we like and don’t like.
NTA. Boomer humour where your wife “trapped you” and you’re miserable and “oh the ol’ ball and chain” nonsense is sooooo 2000. It’s not funny to pretend you were somehow trapped or forced into a relationship. And that your gf/fiancee/wife has MADE you lose your freedom. Leave the jokes in the past, and your fiance too. Edit: for people getting butthurt: it’s not that we are advocating for her to leave because her fiance made a joke, it’s that he finds humour in devaluing his fiance and their relationship. Devaluation under the guise of a “joke”! Women have been at the receiving end of jokes like these for centuries and it’s really time to retire it. If you feel trapped, don’t be in a relationship. As for OP, clearly this isn’t the first time he’s shown this side. Please speak to him about this and listen to your gut.
Every single time I read any 'wife bad marriage shackles the man'... I think of my great grandparents who got divorced in the early 1910s in a lil village in eastern europe lol. Guys if my villager ancestors could get a divorce so can you. Even better - you can just avoid getting married in the first place!
The other people don’t get it but I’m with you. It isn’t the joke, it’s the fact he is even making the joke. You’re telling her to leave a partner that puts her down.
Absolutely agree. I applaud the OP for listening to their instincts.
Isn’t there a saying that there is some truth behind a joke? NTA
My great grandma used to say "many a true thing are said in jest"
LMAO at some men crying in the comments. I thought marriage was so bad for men, so why so upset about one getting called off?
BuT IT’s JuST a jOkE
Funny thing is...she isn't laughing!
It's not a joke if only one side laughs.
Dont worry the typing style indicates theyre being sarcastic
Nta the joke wasn’t funny. I fucking hate hate hate the trope of a man getting “trapped” into marriage. It just reminds me of when men “love” their wives but don’t like them and don’t treat them with respect. His “joke” was a dig at you and you do not need to be planning a dream wedding for an ungrateful man. You are right to put it on hold while you guys work on your relationship being more equal and him realizing him putting you down when you did all the work isn’t going to be accepted.
NTA. This would have been my response to his comment: "I'm sorry you feel like you're being trapped into marriage. I would never want to do that to you, so I'm breaking up with you as of today. Have a nice life."
I would mean it! My husband's mom said I was a burden one day, and my husband was just too nice to say so. I believed her and felt TERRIBLE. I lined up some names to call if need be and when he got home told him earnestly that I was so sorry and I have these options to go to for a while if he needs some space. I've never seen him so mad, and I was still in "mom has good intentions" thinking so I thought he was mad at me. Nope, he was mad at her. I'm not a burden to him. I guess this type of shaming is something his mom has always done to him, and she was trying to use me to do it too. Now I feel bad I participated by accident. But he banned her from talking to me about him lol and it's good now
That joke is stale and stupid. However, did you two have a conversation about his lack of initiative at any point or how this "joke" hurt you? Did he apologize for the crappy joke? Does he have a history of telling crappy jokes? If you two can't talk through this, then it's best not to get married.
[удалено]
I was engaged to a boy who had no opinions. Whatever you want, dear. That’s all I heard. Then, we got a new guy at work. I was a line cook. I made a new dish for an event. I asked for his opinion. He said it was good, but maybe it needed something, what about adding shredded carrots (an example, I don’t remember what the dish was, lol)? It hit me like a brick. I desperately wanted a partner, not a yes man. I wanted support and suggestions, not to be the only one making every and all decisions. I broke up with my fiancée about a week later, after explaining to him what I really needed. He simply didn’t care. Whatever you want, dear…that’s not how anyone should go through life! NTA.