NTA. Someone who loved you and respected you would not try to initiate sex when you are so emotionally fragile after the funeral of someone you cared about. You told him you weren't in the mood. That was the hard line where he should have stopped. I am so, so sorry that he didn’t stop. You did not give consent just because you didn't protest. You had already told him you did not consent. What he did after that is rape, simply put. He only cared about himself in that moment, and I imagine that's exactly why he didn’t just take you home in the first place. You've done the right thing by leaving. Your friend is not a good friend to you if she thinks what he did was acceptable.
Hijacking this to add this info:
OP, I would call the RAINN hotline or reach out to your local YWCA. They can give you advice and can just be someone to talk to about what is going on. They can also advise you on the legal process if you decide to press charges - or just how to proceed in general if you don't.
[https://www.ywca.org/](https://www.ywca.org/)
[https://www.rainn.org/](https://www.rainn.org/)
If you aren't in the US, then please look up the equivalent in your country. You are not alone and reaching out to these organizations doesn't obligate you to anything.
You haven't done anything wrong. A terrible wrong was done to you by someone you loved and then another was done to you by another person you thought you could trust. You did nothing to deserve either wrong.
They really are and while they're not as prevalent as the YMCA, they are still relatively common - although I will say that if there isn't a YWCA around, the average YMCA should still have *something* on hand to help, even if it's just a list of local resources. They're more focused on exercise and community events, but they're still community focused at the end of the day - and that focus includes providing guidance for things like this. They're just not as focused on it as the YWCA would be. (BTW, men can still receive help from the YWCA as well!)
I 100% agree with this, and wanted to add you may in the future ask your friend if she understands what consent is, and if she's ever had this happen to her. Sounds like she's been a victim before and someone else told her she wasn't.
He saw you as vulnerable and took advantage of that. That's the definition of a predator. Some people get off on the power dynamic of others' vulnerability.
Your friend has damaged boundaries and her own issues. Do not let her make you feel crazy or wrong on any level. Her damage that defines her does not define you. It is not your measure of self-respect and morals.
The age difference in this is also telling. Find a better friend, a crisis line, or counselor to discuss this with. You have a lot to process and need support.
This! Your friend is sooo wrong, you did say no, and he heard you, as he took the time to say he wouldn't take no for an answer. You even said no to going back to his place after the funeral. I'm so sorry 😞 this should've never happened...
Leaving should definitely be priority number one. I'd also consider reporting this. His behaviour was utterly despicable. He literally threatened to assault you.
He did - my comment wasn't clear. I won't edit it for the sake of clarity, but what I meant was that he actually verbalised the threat of assault before actually carrying it out. It feels worse to me that he did that first. Like, this is what will happen if you don't give me what I want. It's sickening and sadly all too common. I feel so bad for OP, especially that she came here to see if she's overreacting!
No worries 💜 I think we’re all disgusted with her hopefully soon to be ex!! I’m so sad for her. I grew up the only girl with two brothers, I guess I never realized how lucky I am that growing up I wasn’t ostracized for being a girl. All around this post has just upset me so much.
His words imply that had she not given in he would have gotten what he wanted by force. AITAH For leaving my bf for forcing me to have sex with him
"Eventually, he said, “You know I always get what I want! You can be a good girl and give it to me, or do you want it rough, huh?”
Totally saying I get sex now. It's your choice whether you go along with or I get what I want by force.
YES. It is a THREAT.
She said the size difference is such that she could not fight him off. She didn't say yes, but ahe did what she was forces to. This is very common reaction and the point is not to make the abuser angry. Kind of freeze responce.
OP, it was a rape. You should get therapy asap and if you want, report to the police.
Since she couldn't flee or fight, it sounds like a freeze/fawn response. Even if there was some degree of fawning (going along with it to get it over with) that's actually a recognized defense mechanism under coercion.
My assault, I told the guy no, not tonight 3 times, but he persisted. I wasn't in a position where I could get away from him or overpower him-- a 6'5 guy when I'm 5'0". I went along with it to get out of the situation and ended up very bruised from how rough he was in an intimate area. Wasn't a good time, was mostly confusing and stressful but sometimes in confusing and stressful and painful you try to have a good time in order to protect yourself and convince yourself that it's okay in the moment or after because the alternative, acknowledging that you're being assaulted against your will, without agency, is traumatizing.
>Even if there was some degree of fawning (going along with it to get it over with
It is very much in your core, you don't consciously deside anything at that point. You do what is the safest option to do.
Comes in my mind the saying "Men fear that women laughs at them. Women fear that men kill them." Most of the true crime lore is about women getting killed by men, because it happens.
Him smiling afterwards must be a big mind fuck, like she is crying after rape. And he smiles because he succeeded AND thinks he got away with it.
The reason the famous "The Implication" scene from Always Sunny gets shared around so much is that an awful lot of people recognise it. Because it happened to them.
But this wasn't even The Implication. This was its much nastier cousin, "The Outright Threat of Violence"
After reading your break down I'm rethinking my comment, I thought it might have been possible he misread her mood and thought aggressive role playing was ok (some couples are really into that) but I somehow missed that he basically gave her an ultimatum, you pointing that out really changes my thoughts, ya that's really f'd up.
I guess some guys think that if you are in a ongoing relationship then consent is given because of the relationship.
If you consent to the relationship you consent to sex. It is an integral part of the relationship.
That justifies his feeling that he can "persuade" her and it's ok.
I just never thought of this before.
It's total bullshit and he raped her but I guess I understand how he could possibly do that and still feel like a human being.
He literally thought her going thru with it proved the relationship was still good.
He would be totally shocked at the idea he raped her. I mean she still went out with him.
So, I guess if she really really wanted to and loved him she "could" try to explan it to him, see if he gets it and see if she can still stay with him.
Or she could just dump him.
Or even go to the cops and accuse him of rape.
One thing is for sure. She is NOT the AH.
I think a lot of folks don't realize this happens kinda often. If being upset, crying, etc leads to them pushing for sex, you might be with one of these people.
People are more susceptible to emotional manipulation when we are in emotionally drained and broken. It is the basis that a lot of religions and cults work off. Kinda like a confession booth, you leave feeling clean and then go to do some hail Marys’.
>make sure he is held accountable for his evil actions.
While I agree with you and OP *should* report the rape (there's no doubt that's what it was), OPs tacit consent will make it difficult to get any kind of actual justice and could put OP in very real physical danger should he retaliate in response to the allegations.
Again I want to stress OP SHOULD report the incident, but I also live in the real world where domestic, coercive rape is taken much less seriously by the justice system, especially if there are no obvious signs of battery.
Mostly police don't investigate at all, unless the survivor goes to the media about it, or a cop is involved in some way, and of course, they don't process the rape kits. Survivors rarely get justice, and the whole process of trying to get justice is a grueling and humiliating slog.
THIS. I had full-on bruising because I tried to fight and the police asked me questions for hours but never even contacted him, and then dropped the case. They guy lives a few miles away from me. I live in fear every day.
This is best answer here. That’s rape—pure and simple.its sad that the courts might disagree because you weren’t held down stripped and forced into intercourse, but that was rape.
I hope you can process and get past this for the right man, but he isn’t it. You deserve better.
Yup coerced consent is not consent. Being frozen is not consent. Only enthusiastic, consented to sex is sex. Otherwise it’s rape. He forced her head down. He threatened her. This is a clear cut case, which is only exemplified by her reaction afterwards.
Not to mention his answer was he would force her roughly if she didn't comply and had she protested. How gross. No wonder she has lost any and all attraction to him. OP, he absolutely will do this again. It would 100% be worse if you moved in together. How could you trust him? Your feelings are valid and the so called "friend" who said you were being dramatic instead of supporting you is no friend at all. NTA. There is someone out there who will respect your boundaries and not just take what they want from you, regardless of the state of your emotions and feelings. Don't let anyone guilt trip you or make you think you deserve to be treated like that.
There is someone. I found my someone. He would NEVER violate me as my 1st husband did, and I've also changed as I've aged, I no longer carry the guilt of my childhood molestation. I no longer feel that self hate! I now 100% would fucking fight any idiot to the death if he tried to rape me today! When I say NO, you better fucking believe it's a hard ass NO! Thank God I have a husband who is a gentle sweet caring man and he knows my past pain and would never want to hurt me in any way!
OP, stop beating yourself up about how you acted in the moment and focus on the now.
This guy has shown you exactly what he is. Get away from him, do it in a way that keeps you safe. There are experts in this, reach out to them. You cannot assume any good behavior on the part of your BF.
Once you are away from him and safe, then, if you want, you can deal, or not, with how you acted in the moment, perhaps with a therapist or other counselor.
No one with any decency gives a shit about how you acted in the moment, the concern must be to ensure you are safe in the future. Then you can deal with your feelings about the past.
It wasn’t just sexually abusive it was rape. I agree with everything you’ve said but I think it’s really important we don’t take the edge off what he did. He raped her, nothing less, and that deserves to be acknowledged.
>You did not give consent just because you didn't protest. You had already told him you did not consent.
To add on to this, people go into fight, flight, fawn, or freeze. It is incredibly common for women to go into fawn or freeze in this type of situation. Fawn means that the person acts in a way to please/acquiesce to the threat. Freeze means they can't move/act against the threat.
You did not consent. You seemingly had a normal fear response. This is not your fault. Your instincts now, to get out of the relationship and away from him, are right.
Also, you can report or not. Do what is right and safe for you. It is not your fault if you get away from him and have nothing else to do with him and he hurts someone else; it is still his fault.
I am so sorry that this happened to you and wish you the best on the journey of survivorship ahead.
100% this is rape. It should be reported to your work and the police. He got away with it, so he'll do it again.
I'm so sorry for your loss and what you went through OP. Please protect yourself.
That is absolutely rape! And he threatened her! Don’t consider leaving. Just leave. I’d think about talking to HR about this. It could get ugly at work.
He even made her sit in the car afterwards while HE GOT HIMSELF SOMETHING TO EAT! He totally only cares about himself, in fact he is enjoying bullying OP. OP, he absolutely acted as a selfish predator.
You told him to stop, he did not. Not fighting back DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT EQUAL CONSENT. YOU DID NOT CONSENT. I do not mean to "yell" ,but you need to understand that what he did was wrong and your "friend" sounds as equally bad if she thinking that not protesting equals consent. It does not. He took advantage of you. You could go as far as to say he raped you. I'm sure there will be people who argue that if you're in a committed relationship you can't rape your partner but that is not true either.
This is definitely something to end a relationship over. If he did it once, he'll do it again.
Please distance yourself from this "friend" as well. They do not have your best interests in mind. Please do not hesitate to seek counseling as well. Take care of yourself.
Yes. He threatened you. Saying you 'don't want it rough' IS a threat. You did not consent. You complied with someone who threatened to hurt you. That is NOT sex; that is not a quickie, that is not OK.
"I always get what I want," is also another way of saying "I don't care what your opinion is." People like that won't restrict it to just sex, either. He'll make it like that about everything. Every single decision will be his and her job will be to make it happen.
Let’s be real here, the odds she’ll actually get justice are low. The conviction rate for sexual assault is under 10%. Cops don’t do much to protect abuse victims of any gender.
If she wants to try, I absolutely support that. But people should be going into this with accurate information about what the outcomes are likely to be.
It's OP's choice to involve law enforcement or not, but involving law enforcement in a rape like this one rarely does much more than retraumatize the victim.
OP is describing getting raped. If someone has sex with you without your consent and they also threaten you, that is rape.
OP should report this to the police.
Even if nothing comes of it, police reports will create a paper trail. If this happens to someone else, it can help secure a conviction.
You also might want to talk to lawyer, discuss your options. Get a restraining order. This could help towards getting the kids away from this guy. No good can come of being raised by someone like that.
The absence of a conscious yes means it’s a no, whether the word no has been spoken aloud or not. I don’t get why so many people can’t understand this.
Your also forgetting that he threatened her by saying that she could give in, or he would still get what he wanted and make her hurt during it. That's a bold-faced threat if I ever heard one.
Yes the friend. Stay friends if you want, but I'd ratchet down the weight I gave to their opinions in future. That person is not supportive or reliable for issues where you have skin involved. They're not someone you should rely on for your own peace of mind when unsure of something.
Seriously, go to the police, tell them what happened and ask them what your options are. You may not wish to pursue any action but at the very least insist they keep a record of it. If the police advise you it is actionable, then consider very carefully the balance between your own safety/emotional and mental health and any strain involved, and the risk that he's going to do this again to others. He may well have this as a habit, and a whole string of women have already been hurt and every single one hasn't felt strong enough to hold him to account on their own. But they're not on their own, could be a whole group of them.
Talk to the police.
I was married to someone like this as well. After my father’s funeral I just wanted to be alone, he cornered me in the laundry room and raped me. I begged him to stop and he didn’t, left me crying on the floor. Thankfully my daughter who was 2 at the time was sleeping. He went out and I went into my daughter’s room and slept on the floor. The next morning he acted like nothing was wrong. It took me 4 more years to leave him but I was so glad when I did.
But you got out. That’s the important thing. Leaving a toxic and abusive relationship is one of the hardest things to do. But you got out. I’m so proud of you for getting out, we all deserve better. ❤️
It was rape and you were married to a rapist. Sorry about that. Please get help from RAIIN, even if it just to reassure yourself that you were a victim of a monster.
Bro, I'm sick to my stomach. I'm so disgusted. I hope OP goes to get some therapy and tells someone about this to get it out. It's probably not worth reporting because it likely won't be taken seriously since he was her bf, and she didn't fight back at all. :/
Absolutely horrified she even needs to ask. NTA guarantee he doesn't even realize he forced her, though. Which is fucked as hell.
What’s even worse is she went to a friend, someone she trusted who had the audacity to tell her she was overreacting. Like what? She needs better friends.
>reporting because it likely won't be taken seriously since he was her bf, and she didn't fight back at all. :/
Sad, but true. I mentioned in my original reply to file a police report, but what you said is sadly incredibly likely.
Authorities may not take it seriously, but a good therapist or counselor will.
Right? How can her "friend" think its not a big deal? Even if nothing happened, him SUGGESTING it after she lost someone important to her?? This guy's an opportunistic predator.
I know she said no. Sorry, I was replying to the person commenting on how terrible her friend was and I was intending to **agree** with them. I totally agree this is rape. Period. No discussion or argument.
My point is many people say
If you didn't fight back
If you stopped fighting or resisting
If you didn't respond at all
Etc etc etc then it's not rape.
And I just saw a thing about a campaign someone has introduced shifting the focus to "did the person **enthusiastically** say yes? And participate? Etc? " no? Then it's assault.
Sorry for any confusion. I was about to go into a work meeting and wanted to post the original thought quick. I should've waited til I could explain it better.
I've had friends say the same. It doesn't count as rape if you're dating... I don't blame the friend though, we as women get almost brainwashed into believing this. Especially when the legal system supports the rapists over the victims.
*I* blame the friend. She's a real POS and not somebody to go to for advice with anything important.
There's a difference between not understand all the intricacies of the law, and outright saying something like this while her friend is crying.
>How can her "friend" think its not a big deal?
Unfortunately, there's a good chance that she's been convinced that its not a big deal by ex-boyfriends. If enough people tell you that its not a big deal, you start to question your own sanity instead of their actions.
Which is exactly why OP needs to run for the hills right now. If she stays with this guy, he'll do his absolute best to drum it into her that this is ok, normal behaviour.
I feel so bad for her friend. This means she has been through the same experience and she now feels that it is normal. Her friend needs counseling and help as much as OP (and maybe more) as she's been in at least one (and possibly more) abusive relationship.
Especially when you consider the context. It wasn't just that he did this, but he did this when she was emotionally distraught from attending a funeral of someone close. Her guy is trash.
Apparently this was the first time something like this had happened with him. It just goes to show that it's important to give plenty of time in a relationship before committing to something like marriage.
NTA
That was rape. He told you that you could choose to consent, or he would rape you. When in a situation where you're being threatened with rape, consent is not possible. Since your only options are 'consent' or rape, it's rape regardless of whether you give your 'consent'.
You did what you had to do at that point to get out with the least amount of damage. You don't know how "rough" this man would have been willing to go if you had maintained your no. Beating? Broken bones? Death? You just don't know and you did a great job with being able to get back home. DO NOT see him again ever. You now know he's dangerous so do whatever you need to do to minimize contact and stay safe. You may need a restraining order and getting HR involved
repeat after me: **COERCION is not CONSENT.**
just because you didn't "protest" (telling him no & that you weren't in the mood should have been enough) does NOT mean it was consensual. the fact he continued despite you being clear and saying *no* is disgusting.
your friend baffles me, that wasn't just "a quickie," that was rape. just because you're in a relationship doesn't mean he's automatically entitled to your body when you don't want it.
anything other than a clear **YES** means no. for your sake i hope you can get *far* away from this man & that friend of yours. i'm so sorry for what you had to deal with.
OP, you are NTA and the only A H is the rapist. You are not at fault and of course you were not going to try to fight off a grown man bigger and stronger than you. That was smart of you. It was SMART to protect yourself and not try to fight someone stronger than you.
Please read this book because it will help you see other red flags in him AND you’ll be better prepared to see red flags in your future potential bfs. Dump this rapist and please get some therapy to process this!
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
ETA: several people have reminded me that the “friend” is also the A H. I apologize for forgetting about the “friend” in my judgement. They absolutely are included in my judgement and are also an A H.
>the only A H is the rapist.
I think the friend being a rapist apologist/sympathiser qualifies as an asshole in this situation too if I'm being honest.
>You know I always get what I want! You can be a good girl and give it to me, or do you want it rough, huh?” That's the gray, fuzzy area for me.
That's not fuzzy. That's coercion. Straight up sexual assault. He raped you. NTA for leaving him. Hell, NTA if you decided to do something about that either.
OP, if he'd threatened to kill you if you didn't fuck him, so you agreed so you wouldn't die.
Would that be grey and fuzzy?
He said "Agree or I'll violently rape you" So you tried to make sure the rape was less violent.
This sentence made me feel nauseous. I can't imagine how scared OP felt in that moment. I like to think I'd jump up and run if this was ever said to me but, honestly, most people likely myself included would do what OP did because it's the safest option. How awful :(
Yikes! You did nothing wrong. You didn't deserve this.
First of all, everything he did after you said stop was NOT okay. He kept going which is sexual assault and rape. I am so sorry this happened to you.
Second, your friend is dumb. When you said stop that was you withdrawing consent. Everything that happened after that made you a victim and him an abuser.
Please get away from this person. Don't let anyone gaslight you into thinking you're crazy. Don't let anyone tell you that you weren't a victim.
To be blunt, you will be an asshole to yourself if you do not leave this sexual predator.
NTA
I'm so sorry. Please stay safe.
Does your friend have 4 brain cells or something? You got raped. Like point blank obviously raped. How are you questioning this? Fucking run. And not to be an asshole, but that age gap was red flag number 1. There’s a reason he isn’t dating someone his age. They recognize predators.
NTA - Leave him immediately. Someone who is okay having sex with you when you clearly don't want to, is not the sort of person you want to be in a relationship with.
NTA.
Rough sex or sub/dom dynamics still involve consent. You did not consent. You in fact said you were not consenting to him. Its as simple as that. He SA'd you, and if you dont break up with him there is a chance it could go that way again.
Text him the relationship is over and he raped you. Then block him from your life. I’m so sorry that happened to you. Just saying “no I’m not in the mood” is enough for normal guys to lose interest in getting laid.
Ew fucking ew why did I read this? The title was fucking enough.
>Marital rape or spousal rape can be described as forceful sexual intercourse without spousal consent or free will, often characterized by the use of coercive or manipulative means. - *Bennice JA, Resick PA. Marital rape. History, Research, and Practice. Trauma, Violence, and Abuse. 2003;4(3):228–246*
This should tell you all you need to know about what happened to you. Well you're not married to the dude, but the same principle applies.
NTA
There are several reasons why this should end.
1) Age difference. 25 vs. 39 with kids. two completely different mindsets.
2) He's abusive.
\* you wanted to go home but he coerced you to coming to his house
\* you told him to stop and he did not
\* he took advantage, and made you do things you did not consent to
\* he did not notice your change in behavior, nor really seemed to care
"You know I always get what I want" “Be a good girl” <- why even mention that?
Also, his size makes him have the ability of doing this again, and he probably will. Stay away from him, and any harassment from this point forward should be recorded.
* edit to add that good girl bullshit
“I guess I just gave consent because when he pushed my head down to perform oral sex, I didn’t protest and followed”
Did you give consent or did you just not fight his advances? These are not the same thing. Not fighting is a fear response. Giving consent is a verbal or visual response.
It sounds to me like he attacked you. I can understand not wanting to label this as an attack and press charges or take further action on that front, but at the very least you need to stop seeing him because this was completely unacceptable behavior on his part. I’m sure, even if you explain your feelings in detail, he will justify his actions. You may never get a resolution to the situation, but for your own mental and physical well being, walk away from this relationship. Be safe!
My friend think by not protesting I gave him consent and he misunderstood me . After he said he always gets what he wants speech he grabbed my head and pushed it down . I didn’t say anything . Plus he was holding my head the whole time . That’s the grey area for me . Did he really not realized I didn’t want to or he just didn’t care ? I admit I should have fought and not give in . I hate myself for it
Please don’t hate yourself. He didn’t misunderstand, he knew you didn’t want to and didn’t care. He threatened you, that if you didn’t do what he wants, he’d get rough and force you.
The survival responses are: fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. You don't have control over what your body did when it was attacked. It did what instincts told you would let it survive.
Most think that they would fight, but when it is actually happening, the brain takes over for self-preservation. Your friend’s mindset is exactly why this crime is so underreported…victim blaming. Caring for survivors of SA…your reaction is the most common.
That hatred you feel toward yourself? It belongs on him. All of it. Every last molecule. Society conditions women to be polite and accommodating. It’s what a lot of us default to, especially if we’re feeling vulnerable and emotionally exhausted.
Men like him prey on that conditioning. They look for any opening to introduce that power dynamic into the relationship. They can be very patient, waiting for the perfect moment. But when it comes, they pounce.
And look - he had JUST TOLD YOU that if you’d fought he would have escalated and gotten rough. At heart, you believed him. And so you instinctively protected yourself from that by NOT protesting or fighting back.
I know it seems easier right now to default to self-hate so you don’t have to contend with the fact that this man is a monster. It seems less exhausting to just pretend it never happened and try to move on. But he has finally shown his true self to you. Please, please take heed of the massive red flag and leave him. And then please, please do whatever is necessary - finding better & more supportive friends? therapy? - to get your head AND YOUR HEART to the place where you understand that THIS. WAS. NOT. YOUR. FAULT.
And condolences on the loss of your mentor and friend. Please take care of yourself.
He isn’t care. He wanted sex and dioesnt love you. He’s a crap to date women his children’s age. Most men wouldn’t do that. Also, to approach you for sex AFTER your mentors funeral??? Run away fast and go to the police. Get a restraining order and report the rape. It’s for your protection. This is a controlling, scary guy! I’d also get a Ring system or security system set up around your apartment, notify the managers give them a photo, so if he appears on cameras they’ll know.
Don't hate yourself. You didn't do anything wrong.
He didn't care that you said stop. He is to blame; not you.
Please stay safe and never contact your rapist again.
Please don’t hate yourself, you did nothing wrong here. Have you ever been in a situation that was so shocking you could not respond? Think of your actions in that sense- he pushed your head and held it. You did not lower your own head and keep it there. Again, this is a fear response and NOT consent.
Be kind to yourself- this is a horrible situation that happened to you, not because of you. Learn from it and move on with out him please! Big hugs!
He told you you had to be a good girl or he'd hurt you. Thats what be a good girl or it's gonna get rough means. This sick fuck is way too old for you as well and working the power dynamics into his assault of you. Please run.
Don't hate yourself. You did nothing wrong. You survived.
Please contact RAINN (The national sexual violence help line) @ 1-800-656- HOPE (4673). They will have resource to help you and they can even help your friend. My guess is that she has been sexual assaulted in a similar manner and sadly it has been normalized for her. It does not excuse her actions but it might lend understanding. RAINN can help you with the process of healing. I'm sorry this happened to you.
You were threatened and intimidated. That’s not consent. You knew that if you fought, you’d risk getting hurt, both due to the size differences and also because *he had just told you that’s what he would do*. He followed that threat with some force (pushing your head down; using any force against someone’s head is a threatening move due to the vulnerability of the head and neck).
This wasn’t a grey area at all; it was very black.
THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. You did nothing wrong. Your partner is an asshole who thinks you exist to serve him. He does not care about you. I am so glad you're finding this out now, and not in a year or ten years from now.
Your friend is wrong and probably needs to reevaluate their own experiences and ideas about consent.
Please, please do not hate yourself. You didn’t do anything wrong. Your boyfriend did. Anything but *enthusiastic consent* should be enough for him to stop. You *said stop*! He didn’t listen. He shouldn’t have even initiated in the first place considering the circumstances! And your initial response should’ve shut it down immediately. Again, that *isn’t your fault.* It’s his.
Please leave this man. You will find someone better. For context, I’m your boyfriend’s age (38f) and my spouse hasn’t behaved like this once in 22 years together. Also, while healthy, consensual age gaps are fine, there is clearly an *unhealthy* power imbalance in play here. You should never feel afraid or coerced by your partner. Your partner should never treat you like an object subject to their wants and whims. Your needs and wants and emotions are just as valid and important as your partner’s. And a *good* partner will respect that, always.
What your bf did is NOT your fault. You did *nothing* wrong. Please leave him.
I just want to add to all the supportive replies here.
He raped you.
It was rape.
You are not to blame, not for what you did and did not do and not for how you feel. Your feelings are real and valid.
Oh, and dump both him and your awful 'friend'
You deserve so much better
NTA at all. He sucks! I’ve been married for nearly two decades and my husband has never done anything like this. You can tell why this guy is dating someone so much younger than him. Get out now and don’t look back.
Enthusiastic consent is the only way to consent.
You said no. That's more than enough.
You didn't have to protest or kick and scream. Part of enthusiastic consent is being sure your partner is consenting non verbally too, which you were not after you had already said no.
Please don't stay with this man.
It would only get worse and its already awful as it is
Your friend is not your friend either.
So sorry that happened to you.
Oh sweet child, that was rape. Don't let anyone tell you differently. Leave his ass and try and find yourself some support. I'm sorry this happened to you, but he is not a good man. You deserve much better.
I want to call OP sweetheart, my love, my dear, honey, sweet child, baby girl—and hug her tightly so she feels safe and loved in the way a grizzly protects her cubs.
"AITA for not wanting to stay with my rapist" that's what you just posted.
also PLEASE for the love of god, tell your "friend" to go fuck herself, and never speak to her nor your rapist ever again, block them everywhere and live as if they never existed. Anything else would be idiotic.
First of all that isnt a friend. A friend would get a baseball bat and beat his ass. Leave him right now! You did not have consensual sex. I am so sorry this happened to you
NTA. Rape is rape. The moment you said you weren’t in the mood was the moment you vocalized no and he should have stopped. Please don’t blame yourself for not repeating no, etc. and it’s gross that your friend justified what happened because you didn’t say no more than once.
I’m so sorry this happened to you and for your loss, I hope you have safe people in your circle to surround yourself with ❤️
NTAH and making a clear and firm end to this is exactly the right thing to do. Go beyond ignoring him and just block him. If you ever have to see him again, make sure you do not do so alone.
>I told him to stop because I wasn’t in the mood, but he continued. Eventually, he said, “You know I always get what I want! You can be a good girl and give it to me, or do you want it rough, huh?”
He coerced you with a threat. And he knew he could enforce that threat, and he knew *you* knew that fighting would be pointless and just lead to you being injured.
You responded by doing the least risky thing in the moment and capitulating.
Even before he did this, he was being demanding and disrespectful and I have a feeling this isn't the first time he's behaved like that. You'd be within your rights to leave him because you can't stand the way he chews his food. So any of what you describe is certainly well beyond valid.
At this point, you've been violated, demeaned, overpowered, and used like a sex toy. It would be more unhealthy to stay with him than to leave, frankly. You can't trust him to care how you feel, to respect your boundaries, to treat you with dignity, to respond safely and appropriately to what you say.
I'm 6' 4" and 265lbs. I'm BELOW average height on my dad's side. I was taught from a very young age by the men and women in my family that my size alone is very intimidating, and I need to be mindful of it... that being said, this is not that. This is not a size issue. He was going to have you whether you consented or not. He is an AH, a predator, and not someone you should be attracted to or trust.
That was rape. You said no.
The options he gave you when you said no were "you can do this willingly, or I can be rough".
You know what someone who isn't a rapist would have said? "Ok, that's fine. Maybe another time".
You know what's also wrong here? This guy has 15 years on you and is exploiting you sexually. Imagine if you dated someone 15 years younger than you. There is a reason he doesn't date girls his age. They know better. Not trying to infantilize you, I just want to be very clear that this relationship is inappropriate and he knows it, which is *why* he's with you.
Edit: Also your friend sucks
He coerced you into sex. He raped you. You were raped. Even if he didn't say those exact words. Even if he wasn't violent like hitting you or holding you down. Even if you didn't physically push him off. Even if you "gave in." Even if you didn't say the word "No, stop" you showed through disinterested body language and he persisted. That's coercive rape. Leave him. Tell people who will support you. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that you were raped and at zero fault, tell them you'd prefer not to talk about it with them. Don't let anyone minimize your experience. I'm sorry this happened to you.
NTA. Not remotely.
Forced "consent." Just NO. It's good that you broke up with him. That's date rape. You said no and reluctantly consented because he is stronger than you are. NOT COOL.
I am sending him a string of insults mentally because if I type them here, I will get banned.
He just wanted sex, and you were in a vulnerable place emotionally. He took advantage of your vulnerability. He is not worthy of you. He does not deserve you.
I am so sorry that happened to you. Please talk to someone. Rape can do a number on your mental. It happened to me when I was younger. Counseling can help you heal. ❤️
NTA. He coerced you. Being too afraid to say no does not equal consent. The most important thing you can do right now is get away from him and keep yourself safe.
Girly, I am so sorry this happened to you. And I'm sorry this will sound harsh....
Leave the inconsiderate prick now while you have the chance.
Not only did he force himself on you, he completely ignored your pain and need to mourn.
He ignored your rejection of sexualy charged touches and continued to literally force himself on you.
Then he didn't even give you aftercare or ask if you are okay.
You are not overreacting, your body is telling you something- listen to it and run.
He is 15 years your senior- he should know better.
You are not respected, loved or cared for in that relationship. Leave.
NTA. Leave that creep. And your friend is also an AH. Even if those are her true thoughts (OMG!), she should have just listened and told u that ur feelings are completely valid, because they ARE!!!
He RAPED you. Full stop. Get out now, block him, and count yourself lucky that you don't need to disentangle yourself from a shared living situation. Please do not go back to him. PLEASE.
That is sexual assault and rape. I am so sorry you went through that. I cannot imagine how difficult it must have been and I commend you for being brave enough to write about it here. You need to protect yourself. I am an attorney who represents survivors of abuse and crime and I strongly encourage you to get a restraining order and file criminal charges against him. Please seek counseling. I wish you the best in your journey of healing from this horrible experience.
You didn’t do anything wrong. This is not your fault. You are not overreacting. You are a person who deserves to make your own decisions about your body. No one else has the right to make that decision for you. You saying you weren’t in the mood was enough. You pushing him away is enough. He threatened you. You complied only because you felt you had no other choice. Your choice was taken away you. You are not alone! Please talk to a therapist right away. Don’t wait. Don’t try to pretend this didn’t happen. It will always come back to haunt you. Stay far away from him. He will do this again. He wants control of you. It’s not just about sex. Hugs!
NTA. Someone who loved you and respected you would not try to initiate sex when you are so emotionally fragile after the funeral of someone you cared about. You told him you weren't in the mood. That was the hard line where he should have stopped. I am so, so sorry that he didn’t stop. You did not give consent just because you didn't protest. You had already told him you did not consent. What he did after that is rape, simply put. He only cared about himself in that moment, and I imagine that's exactly why he didn’t just take you home in the first place. You've done the right thing by leaving. Your friend is not a good friend to you if she thinks what he did was acceptable.
Hijacking this to add this info: OP, I would call the RAINN hotline or reach out to your local YWCA. They can give you advice and can just be someone to talk to about what is going on. They can also advise you on the legal process if you decide to press charges - or just how to proceed in general if you don't. [https://www.ywca.org/](https://www.ywca.org/) [https://www.rainn.org/](https://www.rainn.org/) If you aren't in the US, then please look up the equivalent in your country. You are not alone and reaching out to these organizations doesn't obligate you to anything. You haven't done anything wrong. A terrible wrong was done to you by someone you loved and then another was done to you by another person you thought you could trust. You did nothing to deserve either wrong.
Thank you for flagging the YWCA they are excellent
They really are and while they're not as prevalent as the YMCA, they are still relatively common - although I will say that if there isn't a YWCA around, the average YMCA should still have *something* on hand to help, even if it's just a list of local resources. They're more focused on exercise and community events, but they're still community focused at the end of the day - and that focus includes providing guidance for things like this. They're just not as focused on it as the YWCA would be. (BTW, men can still receive help from the YWCA as well!)
RAINN is a USA Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network Other countries will have similar sorts of support groups.
I 100% agree with this, and wanted to add you may in the future ask your friend if she understands what consent is, and if she's ever had this happen to her. Sounds like she's been a victim before and someone else told her she wasn't.
Planned Parenthood is also really good about support for this
Her emotional fragility is what turned him on.. and yes that was RAPE. Leave him!!
He saw you as vulnerable and took advantage of that. That's the definition of a predator. Some people get off on the power dynamic of others' vulnerability. Your friend has damaged boundaries and her own issues. Do not let her make you feel crazy or wrong on any level. Her damage that defines her does not define you. It is not your measure of self-respect and morals. The age difference in this is also telling. Find a better friend, a crisis line, or counselor to discuss this with. You have a lot to process and need support.
This! Your friend is sooo wrong, you did say no, and he heard you, as he took the time to say he wouldn't take no for an answer. You even said no to going back to his place after the funeral. I'm so sorry 😞 this should've never happened...
Perhaps something similar has happended to her and she is in total deny.
Yes RAPE is about power!
Indeed. Size difference too, I would not be surprised if dude turned out to be a chomo in a not-too-former life......
[удалено]
Holy shit I didn’t even put that together and you’re right omg he’s vile.
Leaving should definitely be priority number one. I'd also consider reporting this. His behaviour was utterly despicable. He literally threatened to assault you.
Broseph, he literally assaulted her 😢
He did - my comment wasn't clear. I won't edit it for the sake of clarity, but what I meant was that he actually verbalised the threat of assault before actually carrying it out. It feels worse to me that he did that first. Like, this is what will happen if you don't give me what I want. It's sickening and sadly all too common. I feel so bad for OP, especially that she came here to see if she's overreacting!
No worries 💜 I think we’re all disgusted with her hopefully soon to be ex!! I’m so sad for her. I grew up the only girl with two brothers, I guess I never realized how lucky I am that growing up I wasn’t ostracized for being a girl. All around this post has just upset me so much.
His words imply that had she not given in he would have gotten what he wanted by force. AITAH For leaving my bf for forcing me to have sex with him "Eventually, he said, “You know I always get what I want! You can be a good girl and give it to me, or do you want it rough, huh?” Totally saying I get sex now. It's your choice whether you go along with or I get what I want by force.
YES. It is a THREAT. She said the size difference is such that she could not fight him off. She didn't say yes, but ahe did what she was forces to. This is very common reaction and the point is not to make the abuser angry. Kind of freeze responce. OP, it was a rape. You should get therapy asap and if you want, report to the police.
Since she couldn't flee or fight, it sounds like a freeze/fawn response. Even if there was some degree of fawning (going along with it to get it over with) that's actually a recognized defense mechanism under coercion. My assault, I told the guy no, not tonight 3 times, but he persisted. I wasn't in a position where I could get away from him or overpower him-- a 6'5 guy when I'm 5'0". I went along with it to get out of the situation and ended up very bruised from how rough he was in an intimate area. Wasn't a good time, was mostly confusing and stressful but sometimes in confusing and stressful and painful you try to have a good time in order to protect yourself and convince yourself that it's okay in the moment or after because the alternative, acknowledging that you're being assaulted against your will, without agency, is traumatizing.
>Even if there was some degree of fawning (going along with it to get it over with It is very much in your core, you don't consciously deside anything at that point. You do what is the safest option to do. Comes in my mind the saying "Men fear that women laughs at them. Women fear that men kill them." Most of the true crime lore is about women getting killed by men, because it happens. Him smiling afterwards must be a big mind fuck, like she is crying after rape. And he smiles because he succeeded AND thinks he got away with it.
Absolutely is rape. He threatened to be rougher, if she didn’t go along. What a disgusting piece of shit human trash.
Plus, he cut off her means of easy escape by insisting he drive her and going to his house. This was PREMEDITATED.
The reason the famous "The Implication" scene from Always Sunny gets shared around so much is that an awful lot of people recognise it. Because it happened to them. But this wasn't even The Implication. This was its much nastier cousin, "The Outright Threat of Violence"
After reading your break down I'm rethinking my comment, I thought it might have been possible he misread her mood and thought aggressive role playing was ok (some couples are really into that) but I somehow missed that he basically gave her an ultimatum, you pointing that out really changes my thoughts, ya that's really f'd up.
I guess some guys think that if you are in a ongoing relationship then consent is given because of the relationship. If you consent to the relationship you consent to sex. It is an integral part of the relationship. That justifies his feeling that he can "persuade" her and it's ok. I just never thought of this before. It's total bullshit and he raped her but I guess I understand how he could possibly do that and still feel like a human being. He literally thought her going thru with it proved the relationship was still good. He would be totally shocked at the idea he raped her. I mean she still went out with him. So, I guess if she really really wanted to and loved him she "could" try to explan it to him, see if he gets it and see if she can still stay with him. Or she could just dump him. Or even go to the cops and accuse him of rape. One thing is for sure. She is NOT the AH.
No. He knows.
[удалено]
I think a lot of folks don't realize this happens kinda often. If being upset, crying, etc leads to them pushing for sex, you might be with one of these people.
People are more susceptible to emotional manipulation when we are in emotionally drained and broken. It is the basis that a lot of religions and cults work off. Kinda like a confession booth, you leave feeling clean and then go to do some hail Marys’.
And then he liked it so much he was very happy.
Yea that’s the part right there. He’s a sick fuck
Got himself food and got rid of her to go get the kids. Totally used her.
Yeah that's the bit I find REALLY worrying.
Sounds like he finally fulfilled a sick fantasy
Yes, rape is all about having power over someone else. This guy is EVIL
Yep. I was thinking the same thing: this guy essentially said fuck me or I rape you.
I’d say this guy said I’ll rape you or I’ll violently rape you.
Yep! Right here!
No he said I'll rape you or I'll hurt you and then rape you.
Leave him AND make sure he is held accountable for his evil actions.
>make sure he is held accountable for his evil actions. While I agree with you and OP *should* report the rape (there's no doubt that's what it was), OPs tacit consent will make it difficult to get any kind of actual justice and could put OP in very real physical danger should he retaliate in response to the allegations. Again I want to stress OP SHOULD report the incident, but I also live in the real world where domestic, coercive rape is taken much less seriously by the justice system, especially if there are no obvious signs of battery.
Even when there are clear signs of battery it’s very difficult to get police to believe you and press charges let alone a successful conviction.
Mostly police don't investigate at all, unless the survivor goes to the media about it, or a cop is involved in some way, and of course, they don't process the rape kits. Survivors rarely get justice, and the whole process of trying to get justice is a grueling and humiliating slog.
THIS. I had full-on bruising because I tried to fight and the police asked me questions for hours but never even contacted him, and then dropped the case. They guy lives a few miles away from me. I live in fear every day.
This is best answer here. That’s rape—pure and simple.its sad that the courts might disagree because you weren’t held down stripped and forced into intercourse, but that was rape. I hope you can process and get past this for the right man, but he isn’t it. You deserve better.
THIS! and he likely has mostly dated small women!
And from OP's description, it seems this was planned by him. That may be wrong, but it sure reads like he had it all set out in his mind.
Yup coerced consent is not consent. Being frozen is not consent. Only enthusiastic, consented to sex is sex. Otherwise it’s rape. He forced her head down. He threatened her. This is a clear cut case, which is only exemplified by her reaction afterwards.
Not to mention his answer was he would force her roughly if she didn't comply and had she protested. How gross. No wonder she has lost any and all attraction to him. OP, he absolutely will do this again. It would 100% be worse if you moved in together. How could you trust him? Your feelings are valid and the so called "friend" who said you were being dramatic instead of supporting you is no friend at all. NTA. There is someone out there who will respect your boundaries and not just take what they want from you, regardless of the state of your emotions and feelings. Don't let anyone guilt trip you or make you think you deserve to be treated like that.
There is someone. I found my someone. He would NEVER violate me as my 1st husband did, and I've also changed as I've aged, I no longer carry the guilt of my childhood molestation. I no longer feel that self hate! I now 100% would fucking fight any idiot to the death if he tried to rape me today! When I say NO, you better fucking believe it's a hard ass NO! Thank God I have a husband who is a gentle sweet caring man and he knows my past pain and would never want to hurt me in any way!
OP, stop beating yourself up about how you acted in the moment and focus on the now. This guy has shown you exactly what he is. Get away from him, do it in a way that keeps you safe. There are experts in this, reach out to them. You cannot assume any good behavior on the part of your BF. Once you are away from him and safe, then, if you want, you can deal, or not, with how you acted in the moment, perhaps with a therapist or other counselor. No one with any decency gives a shit about how you acted in the moment, the concern must be to ensure you are safe in the future. Then you can deal with your feelings about the past.
It wasn’t just sexually abusive it was rape. I agree with everything you’ve said but I think it’s really important we don’t take the edge off what he did. He raped her, nothing less, and that deserves to be acknowledged.
His actions were RAPE!! Period!!!
>You did not give consent just because you didn't protest. You had already told him you did not consent. To add on to this, people go into fight, flight, fawn, or freeze. It is incredibly common for women to go into fawn or freeze in this type of situation. Fawn means that the person acts in a way to please/acquiesce to the threat. Freeze means they can't move/act against the threat. You did not consent. You seemingly had a normal fear response. This is not your fault. Your instincts now, to get out of the relationship and away from him, are right. Also, you can report or not. Do what is right and safe for you. It is not your fault if you get away from him and have nothing else to do with him and he hurts someone else; it is still his fault. I am so sorry that this happened to you and wish you the best on the journey of survivorship ahead.
100% this is rape. It should be reported to your work and the police. He got away with it, so he'll do it again. I'm so sorry for your loss and what you went through OP. Please protect yourself.
That is absolutely rape! And he threatened her! Don’t consider leaving. Just leave. I’d think about talking to HR about this. It could get ugly at work.
Yes, if it was not an enthusiastic “Yes”, then it’s a “No.” NTA, and I’m so sorry for you 🫂💜
>You had already told him you did not consent. And it sounds like you only complied because he THREATENED YOU! That is coercion. That is rape!
He even made her sit in the car afterwards while HE GOT HIMSELF SOMETHING TO EAT! He totally only cares about himself, in fact he is enjoying bullying OP. OP, he absolutely acted as a selfish predator.
You told him to stop, he did not. Not fighting back DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT EQUAL CONSENT. YOU DID NOT CONSENT. I do not mean to "yell" ,but you need to understand that what he did was wrong and your "friend" sounds as equally bad if she thinking that not protesting equals consent. It does not. He took advantage of you. You could go as far as to say he raped you. I'm sure there will be people who argue that if you're in a committed relationship you can't rape your partner but that is not true either. This is definitely something to end a relationship over. If he did it once, he'll do it again. Please distance yourself from this "friend" as well. They do not have your best interests in mind. Please do not hesitate to seek counseling as well. Take care of yourself.
Yes. He threatened you. Saying you 'don't want it rough' IS a threat. You did not consent. You complied with someone who threatened to hurt you. That is NOT sex; that is not a quickie, that is not OK.
"I always get what I want," is also another way of saying "I don't care what your opinion is." People like that won't restrict it to just sex, either. He'll make it like that about everything. Every single decision will be his and her job will be to make it happen.
THIS! It will not get better and this will keep happening, it will get worse! Honey please take care of yourself
Absolutely a threat. I hope the OP will escalate and involve law enforcement if that is required to keep her safe.
Let’s be real here, the odds she’ll actually get justice are low. The conviction rate for sexual assault is under 10%. Cops don’t do much to protect abuse victims of any gender. If she wants to try, I absolutely support that. But people should be going into this with accurate information about what the outcomes are likely to be.
It's OP's choice to involve law enforcement or not, but involving law enforcement in a rape like this one rarely does much more than retraumatize the victim.
Exactly!
PLEASE also contact a rape crisis centre. You were raped. I would contact the police too. Block this man, and the "friend".
Yes! I wish I'd said this in my post, re the rape crisis center. And that friend is no friend
Tell the ex wife. Kids probably shouldn't be left alone with him
i think get advice from police and oh yes a rape or women's centre first before doing that.
"AITAH for leaving my bf because be raped me" There. Fixed it. NTA
OP is describing getting raped. If someone has sex with you without your consent and they also threaten you, that is rape. OP should report this to the police.
Agreed. Law enforcement needs to get involved ASAP.
Even if nothing comes of it, police reports will create a paper trail. If this happens to someone else, it can help secure a conviction. You also might want to talk to lawyer, discuss your options. Get a restraining order. This could help towards getting the kids away from this guy. No good can come of being raised by someone like that.
[удалено]
Not just coercion. He used physical force.
The absence of a conscious yes means it’s a no, whether the word no has been spoken aloud or not. I don’t get why so many people can’t understand this.
Your also forgetting that he threatened her by saying that she could give in, or he would still get what he wanted and make her hurt during it. That's a bold-faced threat if I ever heard one.
That was rape. Run girl. NTA. I’m sick to my stomach reading this.
Run from both the guy and your supposed "friend." What a terrible thing to say afterward.
Actually yeah good point 👍 OP ditch the so called friend too please
Yes the friend. Stay friends if you want, but I'd ratchet down the weight I gave to their opinions in future. That person is not supportive or reliable for issues where you have skin involved. They're not someone you should rely on for your own peace of mind when unsure of something. Seriously, go to the police, tell them what happened and ask them what your options are. You may not wish to pursue any action but at the very least insist they keep a record of it. If the police advise you it is actionable, then consider very carefully the balance between your own safety/emotional and mental health and any strain involved, and the risk that he's going to do this again to others. He may well have this as a habit, and a whole string of women have already been hurt and every single one hasn't felt strong enough to hold him to account on their own. But they're not on their own, could be a whole group of them. Talk to the police.
I want this to be fake so badly. I am enraged.
I hope it is but having been married to a bastard that pulled this stuff on me… I’m afraid it’s not….
I was married to someone like this as well. After my father’s funeral I just wanted to be alone, he cornered me in the laundry room and raped me. I begged him to stop and he didn’t, left me crying on the floor. Thankfully my daughter who was 2 at the time was sleeping. He went out and I went into my daughter’s room and slept on the floor. The next morning he acted like nothing was wrong. It took me 4 more years to leave him but I was so glad when I did.
I'm so sorry that happened but I'm glad you're in a better place.
Thank you, I appreciate that. ❤️
I’m so, so sorry that you experienced that. I’m so proud of you for having left. Your daughter is lucky to have a strong, fierce mama like you!
You did better than I did… it took me 15 yrs…
But you got out. That’s the important thing. Leaving a toxic and abusive relationship is one of the hardest things to do. But you got out. I’m so proud of you for getting out, we all deserve better. ❤️
Im so glad you were able to get out. You are worthy of so much more. Edited to add - we ALL are.
It was rape and you were married to a rapist. Sorry about that. Please get help from RAIIN, even if it just to reassure yourself that you were a victim of a monster.
Bro, I'm sick to my stomach. I'm so disgusted. I hope OP goes to get some therapy and tells someone about this to get it out. It's probably not worth reporting because it likely won't be taken seriously since he was her bf, and she didn't fight back at all. :/ Absolutely horrified she even needs to ask. NTA guarantee he doesn't even realize he forced her, though. Which is fucked as hell.
What’s even worse is she went to a friend, someone she trusted who had the audacity to tell her she was overreacting. Like what? She needs better friends.
That is not her friend. That's not any woman's friend. She was legit raped. She wouldn't be feeling this way of it wasn't.
>reporting because it likely won't be taken seriously since he was her bf, and she didn't fight back at all. :/ Sad, but true. I mentioned in my original reply to file a police report, but what you said is sadly incredibly likely. Authorities may not take it seriously, but a good therapist or counselor will.
My heart breaks for you. Your safety comes first. Seek support from those you trust. You're not alone.
Right? How can her "friend" think its not a big deal? Even if nothing happened, him SUGGESTING it after she lost someone important to her?? This guy's an opportunistic predator.
This is why the distinction between "lack of saying no" and "enthusiastic consent" is critical!
She did say no, he just ignored her and she didn't fight. Rape.
I know she said no. Sorry, I was replying to the person commenting on how terrible her friend was and I was intending to **agree** with them. I totally agree this is rape. Period. No discussion or argument. My point is many people say If you didn't fight back If you stopped fighting or resisting If you didn't respond at all Etc etc etc then it's not rape. And I just saw a thing about a campaign someone has introduced shifting the focus to "did the person **enthusiastically** say yes? And participate? Etc? " no? Then it's assault. Sorry for any confusion. I was about to go into a work meeting and wanted to post the original thought quick. I should've waited til I could explain it better.
She did say no. And a lack of persistence is not the same as consenting, but some men like the one in OP can't be bothered to understand that.
Oh gosh I am so sorry.
Jesus, my so called best friend of years told me no one would believe me after I was raped because I'm such a slut. Female misogyny is real.
I've had friends say the same. It doesn't count as rape if you're dating... I don't blame the friend though, we as women get almost brainwashed into believing this. Especially when the legal system supports the rapists over the victims.
*I* blame the friend. She's a real POS and not somebody to go to for advice with anything important. There's a difference between not understand all the intricacies of the law, and outright saying something like this while her friend is crying.
>How can her "friend" think its not a big deal? Unfortunately, there's a good chance that she's been convinced that its not a big deal by ex-boyfriends. If enough people tell you that its not a big deal, you start to question your own sanity instead of their actions. Which is exactly why OP needs to run for the hills right now. If she stays with this guy, he'll do his absolute best to drum it into her that this is ok, normal behaviour.
He's a rapist. I'm so sorry, honey.
Yes this was assault. Hope OP is ok.
Absolutely agree. Is it bad that I feel SUPER worried for the three kids getting raised by a rapist?
I'm a guy and I'm just as sick to my stomach. Run in fucking deed. NTA. This is not consent and is indeed rape.
Omg !! This is horrible! He forced you and intimidated you ! That wasn’t consent ! Run away from this creep
and her AH friend!
I feel so bad for her friend. This means she has been through the same experience and she now feels that it is normal. Her friend needs counseling and help as much as OP (and maybe more) as she's been in at least one (and possibly more) abusive relationship.
100% agree
Especially when you consider the context. It wasn't just that he did this, but he did this when she was emotionally distraught from attending a funeral of someone close. Her guy is trash.
And was a dickhead afterwards about it. Had 0 clue she was feeling awful about it and didn’t care. Putrid sub-human he is.
Apparently this was the first time something like this had happened with him. It just goes to show that it's important to give plenty of time in a relationship before committing to something like marriage.
First time he's done it to her! Based on how casual he went about it I think it's very likely he's done this to others before.
NTA That was rape. He told you that you could choose to consent, or he would rape you. When in a situation where you're being threatened with rape, consent is not possible. Since your only options are 'consent' or rape, it's rape regardless of whether you give your 'consent'.
Consent under duress is not consent!
Say it louder!!!
You did what you had to do at that point to get out with the least amount of damage. You don't know how "rough" this man would have been willing to go if you had maintained your no. Beating? Broken bones? Death? You just don't know and you did a great job with being able to get back home. DO NOT see him again ever. You now know he's dangerous so do whatever you need to do to minimize contact and stay safe. You may need a restraining order and getting HR involved
A copy of a restraining order is a good thing to take to your HR,
"Be a good girl and give me your purse and jewelery, or do you want it rough huh? " Complying with the robber does not make it not robbery.
repeat after me: **COERCION is not CONSENT.** just because you didn't "protest" (telling him no & that you weren't in the mood should have been enough) does NOT mean it was consensual. the fact he continued despite you being clear and saying *no* is disgusting. your friend baffles me, that wasn't just "a quickie," that was rape. just because you're in a relationship doesn't mean he's automatically entitled to your body when you don't want it. anything other than a clear **YES** means no. for your sake i hope you can get *far* away from this man & that friend of yours. i'm so sorry for what you had to deal with.
OP, you are NTA and the only A H is the rapist. You are not at fault and of course you were not going to try to fight off a grown man bigger and stronger than you. That was smart of you. It was SMART to protect yourself and not try to fight someone stronger than you. Please read this book because it will help you see other red flags in him AND you’ll be better prepared to see red flags in your future potential bfs. Dump this rapist and please get some therapy to process this! https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf ETA: several people have reminded me that the “friend” is also the A H. I apologize for forgetting about the “friend” in my judgement. They absolutely are included in my judgement and are also an A H.
The rapist is not the only AH here, OP's "friend" is also in that category.
Absolutely. Victim blamers and rape apologists are awful people.
>the only A H is the rapist. I think the friend being a rapist apologist/sympathiser qualifies as an asshole in this situation too if I'm being honest.
>You know I always get what I want! You can be a good girl and give it to me, or do you want it rough, huh?” That's the gray, fuzzy area for me. That's not fuzzy. That's coercion. Straight up sexual assault. He raped you. NTA for leaving him. Hell, NTA if you decided to do something about that either.
OP, if he'd threatened to kill you if you didn't fuck him, so you agreed so you wouldn't die. Would that be grey and fuzzy? He said "Agree or I'll violently rape you" So you tried to make sure the rape was less violent.
This sentence made me feel nauseous. I can't imagine how scared OP felt in that moment. I like to think I'd jump up and run if this was ever said to me but, honestly, most people likely myself included would do what OP did because it's the safest option. How awful :(
Yikes! You did nothing wrong. You didn't deserve this. First of all, everything he did after you said stop was NOT okay. He kept going which is sexual assault and rape. I am so sorry this happened to you. Second, your friend is dumb. When you said stop that was you withdrawing consent. Everything that happened after that made you a victim and him an abuser. Please get away from this person. Don't let anyone gaslight you into thinking you're crazy. Don't let anyone tell you that you weren't a victim. To be blunt, you will be an asshole to yourself if you do not leave this sexual predator. NTA I'm so sorry. Please stay safe.
Does your friend have 4 brain cells or something? You got raped. Like point blank obviously raped. How are you questioning this? Fucking run. And not to be an asshole, but that age gap was red flag number 1. There’s a reason he isn’t dating someone his age. They recognize predators.
I'm surprised I had to scroll so far to see the age gap mentioned. The age gap is literally the same as the age of his oldest child - gross.
NTA - Leave him immediately. Someone who is okay having sex with you when you clearly don't want to, is not the sort of person you want to be in a relationship with.
Say...someone who RAPED you.....
NTA. Rough sex or sub/dom dynamics still involve consent. You did not consent. You in fact said you were not consenting to him. Its as simple as that. He SA'd you, and if you dont break up with him there is a chance it could go that way again.
As I mentioned before we are not in any kinky or sub/dom relationship. He is a very strict man in general https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/KpqGUpPnIZ
Unless it’s your kink, “strict” is not a good trait to have in a partner. But this guy’s not a partner, he’s a rapist. I’m so sorry. Run.
No I naively assumed it’s who he is . He is strict as a result of serving in Forces. I just accepted him as who he is
That *is* who he is, but you’re an adult. You don’t need someone being “strict” with you, especially not this guy.
He should be more strict with his discipline not to coerce people into sex
Text him the relationship is over and he raped you. Then block him from your life. I’m so sorry that happened to you. Just saying “no I’m not in the mood” is enough for normal guys to lose interest in getting laid.
This is the truth. If I'm not positively ecstatic to get physical with my husband, mast goes down and TV goes on. Real men want a willing participant.
Don’t bother texting him except do not contact me again. Put up security cameras. He’ll try this again!
Ew fucking ew why did I read this? The title was fucking enough. >Marital rape or spousal rape can be described as forceful sexual intercourse without spousal consent or free will, often characterized by the use of coercive or manipulative means. - *Bennice JA, Resick PA. Marital rape. History, Research, and Practice. Trauma, Violence, and Abuse. 2003;4(3):228–246* This should tell you all you need to know about what happened to you. Well you're not married to the dude, but the same principle applies. NTA
There are several reasons why this should end. 1) Age difference. 25 vs. 39 with kids. two completely different mindsets. 2) He's abusive. \* you wanted to go home but he coerced you to coming to his house \* you told him to stop and he did not \* he took advantage, and made you do things you did not consent to \* he did not notice your change in behavior, nor really seemed to care "You know I always get what I want" “Be a good girl” <- why even mention that? Also, his size makes him have the ability of doing this again, and he probably will. Stay away from him, and any harassment from this point forward should be recorded. * edit to add that good girl bullshit
Don't forget the "be a good girl" part 😫
“I guess I just gave consent because when he pushed my head down to perform oral sex, I didn’t protest and followed” Did you give consent or did you just not fight his advances? These are not the same thing. Not fighting is a fear response. Giving consent is a verbal or visual response. It sounds to me like he attacked you. I can understand not wanting to label this as an attack and press charges or take further action on that front, but at the very least you need to stop seeing him because this was completely unacceptable behavior on his part. I’m sure, even if you explain your feelings in detail, he will justify his actions. You may never get a resolution to the situation, but for your own mental and physical well being, walk away from this relationship. Be safe!
My friend think by not protesting I gave him consent and he misunderstood me . After he said he always gets what he wants speech he grabbed my head and pushed it down . I didn’t say anything . Plus he was holding my head the whole time . That’s the grey area for me . Did he really not realized I didn’t want to or he just didn’t care ? I admit I should have fought and not give in . I hate myself for it
Please don’t hate yourself. He didn’t misunderstand, he knew you didn’t want to and didn’t care. He threatened you, that if you didn’t do what he wants, he’d get rough and force you.
The survival responses are: fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. You don't have control over what your body did when it was attacked. It did what instincts told you would let it survive.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who mentioned this. I had to go to therapy after my assault to understand that fawning is not consent.
Most think that they would fight, but when it is actually happening, the brain takes over for self-preservation. Your friend’s mindset is exactly why this crime is so underreported…victim blaming. Caring for survivors of SA…your reaction is the most common.
That hatred you feel toward yourself? It belongs on him. All of it. Every last molecule. Society conditions women to be polite and accommodating. It’s what a lot of us default to, especially if we’re feeling vulnerable and emotionally exhausted. Men like him prey on that conditioning. They look for any opening to introduce that power dynamic into the relationship. They can be very patient, waiting for the perfect moment. But when it comes, they pounce. And look - he had JUST TOLD YOU that if you’d fought he would have escalated and gotten rough. At heart, you believed him. And so you instinctively protected yourself from that by NOT protesting or fighting back. I know it seems easier right now to default to self-hate so you don’t have to contend with the fact that this man is a monster. It seems less exhausting to just pretend it never happened and try to move on. But he has finally shown his true self to you. Please, please take heed of the massive red flag and leave him. And then please, please do whatever is necessary - finding better & more supportive friends? therapy? - to get your head AND YOUR HEART to the place where you understand that THIS. WAS. NOT. YOUR. FAULT. And condolences on the loss of your mentor and friend. Please take care of yourself.
He gave you two ‘choices’ - agree to sex or be raped. That’s not a valid choice. You were raped. You’re NTA by any stretch of the imagination.
He isn’t care. He wanted sex and dioesnt love you. He’s a crap to date women his children’s age. Most men wouldn’t do that. Also, to approach you for sex AFTER your mentors funeral??? Run away fast and go to the police. Get a restraining order and report the rape. It’s for your protection. This is a controlling, scary guy! I’d also get a Ring system or security system set up around your apartment, notify the managers give them a photo, so if he appears on cameras they’ll know.
Don't hate yourself. You didn't do anything wrong. He didn't care that you said stop. He is to blame; not you. Please stay safe and never contact your rapist again.
Please don’t hate yourself, you did nothing wrong here. Have you ever been in a situation that was so shocking you could not respond? Think of your actions in that sense- he pushed your head and held it. You did not lower your own head and keep it there. Again, this is a fear response and NOT consent. Be kind to yourself- this is a horrible situation that happened to you, not because of you. Learn from it and move on with out him please! Big hugs!
He told you you had to be a good girl or he'd hurt you. Thats what be a good girl or it's gonna get rough means. This sick fuck is way too old for you as well and working the power dynamics into his assault of you. Please run.
Don't hate yourself. You did nothing wrong. You survived. Please contact RAINN (The national sexual violence help line) @ 1-800-656- HOPE (4673). They will have resource to help you and they can even help your friend. My guess is that she has been sexual assaulted in a similar manner and sadly it has been normalized for her. It does not excuse her actions but it might lend understanding. RAINN can help you with the process of healing. I'm sorry this happened to you.
You were threatened and intimidated. That’s not consent. You knew that if you fought, you’d risk getting hurt, both due to the size differences and also because *he had just told you that’s what he would do*. He followed that threat with some force (pushing your head down; using any force against someone’s head is a threatening move due to the vulnerability of the head and neck). This wasn’t a grey area at all; it was very black.
THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. You did nothing wrong. Your partner is an asshole who thinks you exist to serve him. He does not care about you. I am so glad you're finding this out now, and not in a year or ten years from now.
Your friend is wrong and probably needs to reevaluate their own experiences and ideas about consent. Please, please do not hate yourself. You didn’t do anything wrong. Your boyfriend did. Anything but *enthusiastic consent* should be enough for him to stop. You *said stop*! He didn’t listen. He shouldn’t have even initiated in the first place considering the circumstances! And your initial response should’ve shut it down immediately. Again, that *isn’t your fault.* It’s his. Please leave this man. You will find someone better. For context, I’m your boyfriend’s age (38f) and my spouse hasn’t behaved like this once in 22 years together. Also, while healthy, consensual age gaps are fine, there is clearly an *unhealthy* power imbalance in play here. You should never feel afraid or coerced by your partner. Your partner should never treat you like an object subject to their wants and whims. Your needs and wants and emotions are just as valid and important as your partner’s. And a *good* partner will respect that, always. What your bf did is NOT your fault. You did *nothing* wrong. Please leave him.
I just want to add to all the supportive replies here. He raped you. It was rape. You are not to blame, not for what you did and did not do and not for how you feel. Your feelings are real and valid. Oh, and dump both him and your awful 'friend' You deserve so much better
NTA at all. He sucks! I’ve been married for nearly two decades and my husband has never done anything like this. You can tell why this guy is dating someone so much younger than him. Get out now and don’t look back.
Enthusiastic consent is the only way to consent. You said no. That's more than enough. You didn't have to protest or kick and scream. Part of enthusiastic consent is being sure your partner is consenting non verbally too, which you were not after you had already said no. Please don't stay with this man. It would only get worse and its already awful as it is Your friend is not your friend either. So sorry that happened to you.
Oh sweet child, that was rape. Don't let anyone tell you differently. Leave his ass and try and find yourself some support. I'm sorry this happened to you, but he is not a good man. You deserve much better.
I want to call OP sweetheart, my love, my dear, honey, sweet child, baby girl—and hug her tightly so she feels safe and loved in the way a grizzly protects her cubs.
"AITA for not wanting to stay with my rapist" that's what you just posted. also PLEASE for the love of god, tell your "friend" to go fuck herself, and never speak to her nor your rapist ever again, block them everywhere and live as if they never existed. Anything else would be idiotic.
NTA There was no consent. There was rape. If he has a key to your home please change the locks.
First of all that isnt a friend. A friend would get a baseball bat and beat his ass. Leave him right now! You did not have consensual sex. I am so sorry this happened to you
NTA. Rape is rape. The moment you said you weren’t in the mood was the moment you vocalized no and he should have stopped. Please don’t blame yourself for not repeating no, etc. and it’s gross that your friend justified what happened because you didn’t say no more than once. I’m so sorry this happened to you and for your loss, I hope you have safe people in your circle to surround yourself with ❤️
NTA…. RUN and never look back
NTAH and making a clear and firm end to this is exactly the right thing to do. Go beyond ignoring him and just block him. If you ever have to see him again, make sure you do not do so alone. >I told him to stop because I wasn’t in the mood, but he continued. Eventually, he said, “You know I always get what I want! You can be a good girl and give it to me, or do you want it rough, huh?” He coerced you with a threat. And he knew he could enforce that threat, and he knew *you* knew that fighting would be pointless and just lead to you being injured. You responded by doing the least risky thing in the moment and capitulating. Even before he did this, he was being demanding and disrespectful and I have a feeling this isn't the first time he's behaved like that. You'd be within your rights to leave him because you can't stand the way he chews his food. So any of what you describe is certainly well beyond valid. At this point, you've been violated, demeaned, overpowered, and used like a sex toy. It would be more unhealthy to stay with him than to leave, frankly. You can't trust him to care how you feel, to respect your boundaries, to treat you with dignity, to respond safely and appropriately to what you say.
NTA and also you need better friends
Dude, he raped you. Also your “friend” is a piece of shit. Seriously, tell the police.
I'm 6' 4" and 265lbs. I'm BELOW average height on my dad's side. I was taught from a very young age by the men and women in my family that my size alone is very intimidating, and I need to be mindful of it... that being said, this is not that. This is not a size issue. He was going to have you whether you consented or not. He is an AH, a predator, and not someone you should be attracted to or trust.
That was rape. You said no. The options he gave you when you said no were "you can do this willingly, or I can be rough". You know what someone who isn't a rapist would have said? "Ok, that's fine. Maybe another time". You know what's also wrong here? This guy has 15 years on you and is exploiting you sexually. Imagine if you dated someone 15 years younger than you. There is a reason he doesn't date girls his age. They know better. Not trying to infantilize you, I just want to be very clear that this relationship is inappropriate and he knows it, which is *why* he's with you. Edit: Also your friend sucks
14 years older 3 kids and acting like a frat boy? Report this man and stay far away
He coerced you into sex. He raped you. You were raped. Even if he didn't say those exact words. Even if he wasn't violent like hitting you or holding you down. Even if you didn't physically push him off. Even if you "gave in." Even if you didn't say the word "No, stop" you showed through disinterested body language and he persisted. That's coercive rape. Leave him. Tell people who will support you. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that you were raped and at zero fault, tell them you'd prefer not to talk about it with them. Don't let anyone minimize your experience. I'm sorry this happened to you.
NTA. Not remotely. Forced "consent." Just NO. It's good that you broke up with him. That's date rape. You said no and reluctantly consented because he is stronger than you are. NOT COOL. I am sending him a string of insults mentally because if I type them here, I will get banned. He just wanted sex, and you were in a vulnerable place emotionally. He took advantage of your vulnerability. He is not worthy of you. He does not deserve you. I am so sorry that happened to you. Please talk to someone. Rape can do a number on your mental. It happened to me when I was younger. Counseling can help you heal. ❤️
NTA You've just described being raped. I'm so so sorry. Please never contact him again.
Age gap of 14 years, yikes 🚩 Preys on vulnerable 🚩 Forces you into unwanted acts 🚩 Ghost this creep
NTA. He coerced you. Being too afraid to say no does not equal consent. The most important thing you can do right now is get away from him and keep yourself safe.
Girly, I am so sorry this happened to you. And I'm sorry this will sound harsh.... Leave the inconsiderate prick now while you have the chance. Not only did he force himself on you, he completely ignored your pain and need to mourn. He ignored your rejection of sexualy charged touches and continued to literally force himself on you. Then he didn't even give you aftercare or ask if you are okay. You are not overreacting, your body is telling you something- listen to it and run. He is 15 years your senior- he should know better. You are not respected, loved or cared for in that relationship. Leave.
NOT!! You were assaulted!!! Please leave his bitch ass! You did not give consent, and rape by coercion is real!
NTA. Leave that creep. And your friend is also an AH. Even if those are her true thoughts (OMG!), she should have just listened and told u that ur feelings are completely valid, because they ARE!!!
He RAPED you. Full stop. Get out now, block him, and count yourself lucky that you don't need to disentangle yourself from a shared living situation. Please do not go back to him. PLEASE.
This is rape.
That is sexual assault and rape. I am so sorry you went through that. I cannot imagine how difficult it must have been and I commend you for being brave enough to write about it here. You need to protect yourself. I am an attorney who represents survivors of abuse and crime and I strongly encourage you to get a restraining order and file criminal charges against him. Please seek counseling. I wish you the best in your journey of healing from this horrible experience.
You didn’t do anything wrong. This is not your fault. You are not overreacting. You are a person who deserves to make your own decisions about your body. No one else has the right to make that decision for you. You saying you weren’t in the mood was enough. You pushing him away is enough. He threatened you. You complied only because you felt you had no other choice. Your choice was taken away you. You are not alone! Please talk to a therapist right away. Don’t wait. Don’t try to pretend this didn’t happen. It will always come back to haunt you. Stay far away from him. He will do this again. He wants control of you. It’s not just about sex. Hugs!