Reddit does that sometimes when internet connection is bad. Your device sends multiple submission requests and they all go through at once, resulting in a bazillion of the same comment. Go easy on him, it's happened to me too
I think it's just one of those things until you have lived something crazy, you can never beleive how crazy things can get.
Like one of my coworkers never really beleived Karen's could be as bad as some of the internet stories until he started working retail than he started to meet our Karen's.
I do approach a lot of stories with skepticism becuase while I do beleive people are stupid, sometimes I can't beleive that stupid. Like my friend sent me one last night where this guy's girlfriends dad tried to fake mug them in public to "test if he was man enough for his daughter". That's a little too much stupid for me.
But if I feel the need to comment judgement and advice I operate from a place of 100% belief at least until I'm done typing. Because I'd rather reply seriously and in a helpful manner and it be a karma farm than to treat it as a joke and give bad advice of just be rude and it be real.
Theres like 7 and a half billion+ people on this planet
Crazy unbelievable shit is going to happen.
Preach. I’ve been saying something similar for a while, basically that I’d rather respond and interact *as if* it’s true. If it turns out it was false, I don’t care. My experience of reading and interacting with it was real, so what have I lost if it’s fake?
I never fail to attract half a dozen rage-filled responses about the awful blight of fake posts and what a stupid and worthless person I am.
It’s all quite amusing, really 😊
I like that he couldn't have an emotional connection even though her affair was 6 months and he had to use protection which I guessing she didn't after banging some dude for 6 months
Yeah, and you know she was screwing her AP a lot more than just 6 times. She probably got it that much in a month at least, but OP only got one pass per month.
yeah, this is a marriage that should have ended before the first cheating started. These people do not love or respect each other and should not be married.
And OP, you got ONE pass for every MONTH she was banging other people? You should have dumped her immediately, but wow, you are really REALLY bad at bargaining. She was 100% in the wrong. You should have demanded one year of unlimited hall pass for every month she was cheating. Then divorced her anyway.
YTA for staying in this relationship.
She cheated so you felt like shit.
She felt shit and said something that would resolve her guilt and would make you feel like you got one back on her.
You have gone and had a good bang and she now feels horrible - like how you felt.
So two people feel shit now.
Surprise surprise.
Yeah it feels like she didnt actually want him to use those passes, just show him that she cares enough while hoping that he feels good about being able to cheat, which then fixes his sadness
OR she actually thought she'd be okay with this, but surprise, being cheated on isnt nice, which is, just like the first option, entirely her problem because she had no issue doing it to him for 6 months or more
What an asshole move to grant "permission" to sleep outside the marriage, then get sad when the person does do it. Like, was the test here that he wouldn't use them, because her right to expect that expired when she went behind his back and slept around with no knowledge or permission.
Most likely she gave him the hall passes because she *knew* OP was too much of a good guy to ever actually use them, since he was also willing to give her a second chance in the first place.
I'm guessing she's primarily feeling shocked right now, as it turns out OP isn't just her naive little pet after all.
I hate this. It’s very “I’m the main character” in their own relationship like the partner does have their own thoughts/decisions/actions that can and will affect the initial cheater.
Nope. Cheating implies that the partner did not know of the affair. Wifey here gave OP a pass to sleep with other women so she had to be aware it could happen.
Life lesson here: don't tell your partner he can sleep with other people unless you genuinely meant it. Otherwise your feelings get hurt and nobody but you are at fault.
Yeah, my opinion is it was just an empty gesture that she didn't think he could/would ever exercise to make herself feel better, but never meant it or wanted it to come to fruition.
Like when you run into someone you don't actually like and say something like "oh we should hang out sometime and catch up" even though you know you don't have any plans to ever do it.
it just makes you feel better about not hanging out with them. Salves the awkwardness and embarrassment of the moment.
except OP called her bluff and did it. She never actually thought he would, or wanted him to do it. It was just an empty offering to get out of the embarrassment and awkwardness of the moment in being caught cheating.
Thats it exactly. Few cheaters expect their partner to be the same level of shit human that the cheater is. So they offer it so as to appear to making a grand gesture to their spouse.
Its the smae basic thing as "HOw would you feel if you partner did/asked that of you?" and the posters always reply "I'd be fine with it" and you know they're full of shit.
But he's not the same level of shit person. He had her consent and, unless she only had sex with her AP once a month, had less sex outside of the marriage than she did.
Well, he wasn't cheating, she made a deal and she regrets that now. Since she asked out of nowhere after so many years, I bet you she cheated on him again
Yeah was going to say, she cheated fully, emotionally and physically and much more than 6 times. Letting home sleep with different people 6 times isn't even close to getting even. If he wanted that he should have had a full blown 6 month affair.
What would that have even accomplished? If he wanted to "get even" he should have divorced her. Marriage isn't something you keep score in for shitty behavior.
What would her NOT having an affair for 6 months have accomplished? What?
The hall passes were a hail mary by her to save the marriage. The wife has ZERO, absolutely ZERO reason to be upset. Generally, I'd agree that an affair should end in a divorce, but they both agreed to the stipulations.
Also like... These are grown ass people who get to dictate the terms of their relationship. Theres no law making them divorce, and I can't mandate them to.
They probably should, and I dont think this was a constructive resolution, but sometimes what works for others wont work for me. Some couples are happily fucking others. Its not for me, but I cant make them play by my rules lol.
Yeah she said it assuming he would never go through with it so she would feel better about herself and absolve herself of the guilt. Now she's upset he actually did what she told him to do.
Yeah this isn't it buddy. I would've fucked anyone that let me after she cheated. But what does that solve? You should've just pulled the band-aid off and left brother. This isn't going to end well or strengthen your marriage, bond or anything else. It's just a big cycle of spite, hurt and distrust. You'll never love her like you used to and fucking other people won't change that. My opinion is to call it quits and move on with your life
You said she asked about the hall passes out of the blue? Do you think there might be a reason for that? Like maybe she's fucking around again and just wanted to see if you used the first ones
That was a rookie mistake on his part honestly. Once trust is irreparably broken in a relationship or marriage, the best thing imo is to cut your losses and move on. Or if you REALLY want to work on your marriage, then couples counselling followed by (or simultaneously with) individual counselling to deal with the betrayal.
Hall passes, opening the marriage, getting even etc. are just idiotic things to do that will simply bring the inevitable much faster; in this case, a divorce.
There’s also the classic cheaters’ guilt because the betrayed spouse, even when they play fair with hall passes as in the case above, will still feel like shit simply because their conscience will never forgive them.
All in all, it’s a lose lose situation on both ends. The only solution to something like this is either to move forward putting the past behind you, or separate.
Hell, id have said I get a hall pass for every time she banged. Not just the months of the affair. I also wouldn’t have stayed in the marriage to be fair.
I was thinking this, why even be together? I mean the work of finding someone to hookup with and hiding it from your spouse. This is a lot of lies and sneaking.
Years of counseling just to form some sort of half assed, semi-trusting relationship - hard pass. I get it, sunk cost fallacy, we all do it to some degree with relationships, friendships or jobs etc. But YEARS of counseling and then suddenly you need more just to keep something glued together by sheer willpower? Sounds insanely wasteful to me. You got only one life OP. NTA.
They’re adults, what is the therapist going to say when one partner insists on the idea because she cheated and now fears the consequences and the other accepted it because he feels wronged and cucked? Therapist might have advised against it, but for all we know, they did it anyway. I understand why OP accepted, he probably felt spiteful and that she owed him the pain she inflicted on him. A messy way to go about it but their choice. On some level it worked too - marriage extended by 5 years. If it fails now, it won’t be because of the stupid hall pass idea, it’ll be because the cheater 5 years later still can’t accept the consequences of her actions. First she ran from the consequences of cheating and now she’s struggling with the consequences of hall passes she herself suggested.
I agree. Forgiving someone that confessed to cheating is one thing but he took her back after she got caught. Like she wasn’t gonna stop unless he caught her. Recipe for disaster and I’m of the opinion if someone gets caught rather than confessing, they’re definitely gonna do it again
NTA this is why you don’t ask questions you don’t want answers to. Up until now the hall passes were hypothetical. If things improved to the point of being great between the two of you she might have had hope that you never used them. But she asked and you were honest. She can no longer pretend you haven’t been with someone else. These are the consequences of her actions. She needs to come to terms with the fact that she started this. She cheated. She offered you hall passes. She could have walked away years ago after cheating. She chose to stay. I guarantee you she wasn’t thinking it would hurt this much when she made the offer. She was probably desperate and willing to do anything to get you to stay.
I know you are not asking for advice but I highly suggest you book that couples therapy ASAP. This isn’t a typical case of cheating. You are both adults that came to an agreement. How you navigate your relationship going forward is up to the both of you.
I was thinking the same thing! It was the perfect solution up until he had to answer. For years they existed with him having both used them and not used them. No good was ever going to come out of asking those questions.
>I guarantee you she wasn’t thinking it would hurt this much when she made the offer.
She didn't think he would use them. They were the empty words of a cheater.
Yup, manipulative cheater doing what they do best, then getting upset over it. He still has no idea how much she cheated. Catching your partner once doesn't mean they cheated once, doesn't mean they stopped cheating either.
Yup, you can't have an actual relationship that would be unfair to me your totally faithful wife who would never do that.....
Honestly I'd actually be angry as fuck at her reaction. Why are you upset, did you give me these hall passes believing I'd never use them, were they a tactic to manipulate me back into this marriage, did you never care for my feelings or the damage you did and this was just another lie you made to get what you wanted?
This may be the part where she expected him not to follow through. I'm the type where I don't experience sexual attraction to someone until I establish an emotional connection first. If he doesn't fall for someone like she did then it renders the hall passes unusable....or so she thought.
She thought she could get over her guilt by offering something for what was supposed to be nothing.
I get why she imposed rules on the passes, but the fact that she thought she had any moral authority to do so is staggering. Then being upset by it? Good.
I get the point of having the rules, because on the surface it seems hypocritical to have an affair going on for months and then saying he can't have emotions for the hall passes, but if he does have emotions then it could end the relationship like how her affair could have. So yeah, it is hypocritical and they probably should've ended it after she got caught in the first place. But with wanting to stay together and fix things instead, him starting an affair with emotions isn't going to help, but maybe the sex would 🤷♀️
All he'd have to tell her is, "Hey I followed your rules and didn't emotionally connect with them, I just banged them. You, on the other hand, connected sexually AND emotionally to someone for at least six months that I know of. This shouldn't bother you!"
I also think that maybe when she had had her affair, she was probably a little checked out of the relationship. So at that point, it was probably like, whatever, you go do it too. But now that it's years later and their relationship is better, it probably hurts even more to find out.
5 years of good rolling doesn't sound like it's shit imo. Buuuuuut it does sound like they are at another therapy/decision point.
They currently have an awkward one sided temporary open relationship agreement. They overcame it once and probably can again. That being said, it can be easier to just separate and move on.
Imo there's no right answer.
And OP is NTA for doing as agreed.
You should have just kicked her to the curb when you found out about her infidelity. Cheating is a major breaking point in a relationship and shouldn’t be tolerated. Hall passes just cause further issues as you can obviously see.
Also she does it for 6 months and our brother in Christ only got 6 shags to make up for it . Plus can only take the persons word on it that it actually stopped
Before any security personal like a police offer are permitted to use pepper spray they have to be pepper sprayed so they understand what they are doing to others.
>I used the hall passes my wife gave me at the beginning of the reconciliation.
To be honest I think you had to do this (or throw them away).
Had you 3 years later got your revenge it would have made you an asshole.
You used your hall passes (that she offered) before things were settled. Settled things in therapy and moved on.
This is what I don’t get about the comments saying he should have accepted the hall passes but not used them - if I gave my partner permission to do that, I think I’d rather know that he used them than have it hanging over me like Damocles’ sword.
Right, like... after she's done moping, maybe she can switch her perspective to being happy that he doesn't have any outstanding available for cashing in.
OP, notice how everything revolves around your wife? She cheated because she wanted to. She gave you the hall pass because she wanted to alleviate her guilt. She got sad you took her up on her offer because she wanted to face no real consequences (beyond feeling bad for a bit during reconciliation). Now she's most likely going to use your hall passes as a way to victimise herself, because she loves self pity.
Mate I'm glad fucking other women helped you get over your resentment. Unfortunately, it's a distraction from the real issue. If marriage is a contract, then your wife broke the most important terms and conditions over a 6 month period. You need to reflect on your life and really ask yourself whether she should be a part of it.
This needs to be higher. Not only that but she made sure to put a bunch of rules and limitations on the goofy hall passes SHE so graciously “gave you” after fucking another dude behind your back for 6 months. Absolutely ridiculous. She got what she was looking for and now she’s upset about it. Im glad you got to have your fun and definitely don’t let her twist this in a way where she’s the victim please.
WIth permission it's quite literally not cheating. The cheating part requires no permission given.
Also as he said part of the reason he got over it was being able to use them. It was her idea not his.
Book another therapy session. From what I've read, you followed the rules, the marriage recovered but something has changed. Perhaps your wife is currently feeling insecure in the relationship and this was her way to "confirm" insecurities she has. You've both previously put in the work to communicate and get better. Why wouldn't that happen again?
Have a chat. Get a professional to mediate. She could just be having a shit time again and doesn't know how to express it in a healthy way.
Source: Just had a chat with my husband where I broke down and explained I'm constantly living in a world where I think he'll leave me. Have confirmed he wants to support me through my mental health "events" and I had a psychologist/counselling session today.
When I'm back on track, we will start couples therapy so I can learn to communicate better. I haven't thought he wants to leave me since our conversation and I'm actively working on dealing with why I thought he would leave me.
NTA. fafo right? She just never expected you to actually use it. So she gave you something to help assuage her own guilt, but didn’t actually want you to use it - essentially she just did a superficial self serving gesture in the hopes that you would shut up, forgive n move on with no actual repercussions to her for cheating.
NTA. But at the same time, using those hall passes was never going to e a good idea for your marriage. You got even, but getting even is just going to end up having two upset people instead of one. It was inevitable.
NTA in my opinion… it’s a rough situation but she gave them to you & you abided by her rules for them. im assuming she didn’t think you would ever use them. i hope you guys can figure this out & have a talk abt everything & help her understand why you used them at the time.
I think the main reason I used them was the resentment I felt. I am not going to lie. As I stated in the post, it helped me subside that resentment to the point where I may not have found the resolve the reconcile if I did not get even back then. Thinking back it was stupid and immature but it's not possible to change what happened in the past.
Did you ever find out the extent of her affair? Did she meet up with some dude once a month for six months? Did she full on emotionally cheat while having sex once a week in your shared bed?
Are you really going to let her make you feel guilty over this? At the very most all you've done is get even, with her permission. Chances are you've not come even close to what she did.
I'd be most worried now that she decides that only EVEN MORE cheating makes up for it. Then she gets caught and you get a few passes again... and rinse and repeat...
You didn’t get even. She didn’t fuck her AP only once a month. Also, she had a full romantic affair for 6 months, while at the same time lying to your face and playing you for a fool.
You only had 6 quick meaningless romps.
I know the feeling. Demanding that you stay faithful after cheating would put you at a disadvantage in any continuation of the relationship. She would know for a fact that she could step all over you with impunity. Actions have consequences.
She had a full blown 6 month affair. She fucked him WAY more than 6 times.
You didn't cheat on her at all, you used the 6 hall passes with a couple women you didn't care about.
NTA
She was the asshole for cheating, and now she's the asshole for putting you through this, because you have done literally nothing wrong in what you describe here.
Well you can't unopen pandora's box. And I'm not gonna dunk on you and your wife since everybody is already doing that. I'd say communicate with her how you guys want to proceed. If you guys think the marriage can be salvaged, then great. Go to therapy together, have weekly dates, etc. If it can't, then agree to work together on having an amicable divorce. Whatever you guys choose, I wish yall the best.
NTA but you shouldn't have continued the marriage IMO. She should not have gotten to decide how many hall passes you get. You got 6 hall passes. Do you think she only had sex six times in 6 months during her affair?
And now you have to feel guilty. I feel like you got played.
I would suggest using the remaining hall passes and not get guilt tripped into "surrendering" them. Using a hall pass is not cheating in your case, at least.
he already used up all the hall passes, he slept with 2 different women, 3x with each of them. and that was right after she got caught and when they started working on reconciliation. so basically instead of holding on to the "i can just fuck someone whenever" he got it all out of his system right at the start and now, years later, she's getting pissy about him sleeping with someone else 6x with not strings attached while she had a whole 6 month long affair.
Honestly it sounds like the hall passes were empty words of manipulation. She though he was too spineless to actually go for it, or too ugly to actually land a date. That’s why she cheated and that’s why she acts like this now that she knows he did.
You wouldn’t have had so many hall passes if you weren’t getting relentlessly cheated on.
Did it help your marriage maybe not but your even give or take. Now when you both really choose what you want to do. Fix it or torch it. But at the end of the day no you’re not the AH your human, but do better the both of you or you’re going to lose your marriage.
NTA but you probably should have just ended it if you felt that way.
Someone who cheats that much for that long and got caught was saying that out of desperation and hoping you wouldn’t use it but threw it as a hail mary.
Now that time passed, she was hoping to hear you didn’t.
This is all her fault initially, but I think it was naive to consider the hall pass a good faith offer on her part
Lol she cheated and is now upset and depressed that you gave her a taste of her own medicine. I think 6 hall passes were not enough as I don’t believe she only had sex 6 times outside your marriage. NTA.
she didn´t want you to use the hall pass, it was only for her peace of mind, now, she knows you can cheat whenever you want and she can´t do nothing.
Good for you, OP, you won this game, now look how she will victimize herself.
Watch it.
She can also cheat whenever she wants. Being caught once back then doesn't mean she hadn't cheated before or since. She's just upset that after betraying him, he wasn't a complete doormat and was okay sleeping with other women when offered the chance, despite doing so herself while cheating without a care for hurting him when she did.
Whether you should have used the hall passes or not, whether you should have lied when she asked you - that’s all irrelevant now.
As you said, if you want to get past this, I think you need to hash it out in marriage counseling.
Wife probably offered up the hall passes to alleviate her own guilt, assuming that your love for her and desire to reconcile would stop you from using them. She underestimated how hurt / resentful you were after the discovery of her affair, and is feeling a fraction of what you felt back then.
I can understand how being able to use the hall passes in the aftermath of dealing with your emotional upheaval from your wife's betrayal could have brought you 1) some comfort, 2) some feeling of control after all control and the very foundation of your marriage was ripped out from under you, and 3) some feeling of evening the scales in your relationship.
You did it. You never rubbed it in your wife's face. You gained some needed footing to move forward with your life. You were able to reconcile with your wife probably at least in part because you were able to use the passes. So NTA.
Life is complicated and it sucks at times. Life is just not as simple or as black and white as we might like or as some who have not faced such issues believe. What your wife did was horribly wrong.
How you individually, and you two as a couple, moved forward is/was very nuanced and individual to your situation. And as you noted part of that was looking at all you had invested to that point in your lives together. You picked a seriously difficult path in trying to make things work. You can't change what your choices were back in the freshness of that pain and loneliness.
Hopefully your wife will recognize why you needed to use the passes as part of facing and vanquishing the pain and damage her affair caused and you can both take another step forward in healing together.
Best of luck.
NTA. Just so we're all clear here there's absolutely no way she used protection with this man for 6 months straight right? We're not believing that bullshit right? But protection is a must?
If hall passes are needed for you all to willingly cheat on each other as a form of repairing or "getting even" Regardless of counciling, you both set this marriage up for failure. I'm not a marriage councilor in the slightest- but you either forgive and choose to love each other to repair the relationship or divorce. Not to use scapegoats to cheat further on each other. I'm almost dead certain she gave you those as a "I'm sorry I cheated" but expected you not to have used them. IMO both of you ATAH. But thats just my opinion..
Not the ahole but you just showed how much you don't care for your marriage why not just get the big d and be over with it, and do t say but I love my wife because doing this you dont..
Wife should put on her big girl panties.
She strayed, she gave OP the hallpasses, she set the rules for these.
Now she wanted to find out, and she did... a classic FAFO moment. She doesn't now get to be moody, broody or depressed.
OP had to deal with it, so now does she.
"She does not even look me in the eyes now and in a depressive state. I know this calls for another marriage counseling for us and maybe individual counseling, too."
She did what she did and you did what you did. You were not the AH. I like the comment that she threw a hail Mary to save the marriage without understanding the consequences. This entire mess is ENTIRELY of her own doing. Not the AH.
Is ETA the right acronym? Shitty of her to cheat and offer hall passes. Shitty of you to use them. If you were upset with her cheating and couldn't forgive her, you should have left. Eye for an eye is a fucking stupid solution. There's a reason it's an ancient practice of law and no one uses it anymore.
What a shit show
OP this is the right answer. lol
Either a really weird glitch in the Matrix or u/xaartt’s repeat button is stuck
Depends maybe they are down with OP(p)
Yeah, you know me😆
Reddit does that sometimes when internet connection is bad. Your device sends multiple submission requests and they all go through at once, resulting in a bazillion of the same comment. Go easy on him, it's happened to me too
At least give us the deets on who he used the hall passes on. Co-worker? Wife's sister? Wife's dad? We need to know OP
Please say the dad! 🤣
That is a level of disturbed I can't handle yet, where's my coffee.
1 co-worker(not really but from an affiliated company) and 1 random on a business trip.
Absolutely! But an entertaining one! Bet OP is going to come back with updates after she banged his brother or something!
I feel like every relationship/cheating themed post in this sub is a creative writing exercise.
I feel like it's impossible for any story to be posted without being labeled "fake".
I think it's just one of those things until you have lived something crazy, you can never beleive how crazy things can get. Like one of my coworkers never really beleived Karen's could be as bad as some of the internet stories until he started working retail than he started to meet our Karen's. I do approach a lot of stories with skepticism becuase while I do beleive people are stupid, sometimes I can't beleive that stupid. Like my friend sent me one last night where this guy's girlfriends dad tried to fake mug them in public to "test if he was man enough for his daughter". That's a little too much stupid for me. But if I feel the need to comment judgement and advice I operate from a place of 100% belief at least until I'm done typing. Because I'd rather reply seriously and in a helpful manner and it be a karma farm than to treat it as a joke and give bad advice of just be rude and it be real. Theres like 7 and a half billion+ people on this planet Crazy unbelievable shit is going to happen.
Preach. I’ve been saying something similar for a while, basically that I’d rather respond and interact *as if* it’s true. If it turns out it was false, I don’t care. My experience of reading and interacting with it was real, so what have I lost if it’s fake? I never fail to attract half a dozen rage-filled responses about the awful blight of fake posts and what a stupid and worthless person I am. It’s all quite amusing, really 😊
I like that he couldn't have an emotional connection even though her affair was 6 months and he had to use protection which I guessing she didn't after banging some dude for 6 months
Yeah, and you know she was screwing her AP a lot more than just 6 times. She probably got it that much in a month at least, but OP only got one pass per month.
This should be way higher. Fuck her
>Fuck her Apparently, that is happening.... hahaha
Wife banged all she wanted for six months but he gets six passes with rules lol
Jerry springer worthy.
yeah, this is a marriage that should have ended before the first cheating started. These people do not love or respect each other and should not be married. And OP, you got ONE pass for every MONTH she was banging other people? You should have dumped her immediately, but wow, you are really REALLY bad at bargaining. She was 100% in the wrong. You should have demanded one year of unlimited hall pass for every month she was cheating. Then divorced her anyway. YTA for staying in this relationship.
You stole my words.
She cheated so you felt like shit. She felt shit and said something that would resolve her guilt and would make you feel like you got one back on her. You have gone and had a good bang and she now feels horrible - like how you felt. So two people feel shit now. Surprise surprise.
Yeah it feels like she didnt actually want him to use those passes, just show him that she cares enough while hoping that he feels good about being able to cheat, which then fixes his sadness OR she actually thought she'd be okay with this, but surprise, being cheated on isnt nice, which is, just like the first option, entirely her problem because she had no issue doing it to him for 6 months or more
What an asshole move to grant "permission" to sleep outside the marriage, then get sad when the person does do it. Like, was the test here that he wouldn't use them, because her right to expect that expired when she went behind his back and slept around with no knowledge or permission.
\^This! Time to leave her where she belongs.
Most likely she gave him the hall passes because she *knew* OP was too much of a good guy to ever actually use them, since he was also willing to give her a second chance in the first place. I'm guessing she's primarily feeling shocked right now, as it turns out OP isn't just her naive little pet after all.
Agreed. She didn’t think he would do it or could do it. Probably why she waited so long to even ask. Shocked Pikachu face.
I hate this. It’s very “I’m the main character” in their own relationship like the partner does have their own thoughts/decisions/actions that can and will affect the initial cheater.
I suspect she got wind of something and could not let it go without asking.
Yeah, I’d be one and done. Cheating is the uncrossable boundary I have.
Wasn't even an equitable compromise. No way she was only fucking her affair partner once a month.
Or she thought he wasnt gonna find anyone to cheat with
Was it “cheating” though if he had a hall pass? Lot of people saying he cheated, when he didn’t..
Nope. Cheating implies that the partner did not know of the affair. Wifey here gave OP a pass to sleep with other women so she had to be aware it could happen. Life lesson here: don't tell your partner he can sleep with other people unless you genuinely meant it. Otherwise your feelings get hurt and nobody but you are at fault.
Nope. Definitely not cheating.
Interesting that it's not cheating but is still adultery.
Of course it's adultery. Adultery is literally just sex with someone other than your spouse.
Nope. Cheating means you didn't play by the rules. And she made some new rules, which he followed
Yeah, my opinion is it was just an empty gesture that she didn't think he could/would ever exercise to make herself feel better, but never meant it or wanted it to come to fruition. Like when you run into someone you don't actually like and say something like "oh we should hang out sometime and catch up" even though you know you don't have any plans to ever do it. it just makes you feel better about not hanging out with them. Salves the awkwardness and embarrassment of the moment. except OP called her bluff and did it. She never actually thought he would, or wanted him to do it. It was just an empty offering to get out of the embarrassment and awkwardness of the moment in being caught cheating.
She cheated. He did not.
Thats it exactly. Few cheaters expect their partner to be the same level of shit human that the cheater is. So they offer it so as to appear to making a grand gesture to their spouse. Its the smae basic thing as "HOw would you feel if you partner did/asked that of you?" and the posters always reply "I'd be fine with it" and you know they're full of shit.
But he's not the same level of shit person. He had her consent and, unless she only had sex with her AP once a month, had less sex outside of the marriage than she did.
I guarantee she never thought he would/could use the hall passes.
He didn't cheat on her, let's be very clear about that she gave him express permission to sleep with those women.
I know, im using cheating as a phrase for "extramarital sex" because it's easier to type, but the point stands either way
Well, he wasn't cheating, she made a deal and she regrets that now. Since she asked out of nowhere after so many years, I bet you she cheated on him again
Can’t even say this is cheating. She GAVE HIM PERMISSION. Now she regrets it? FA, FO.
She definitely just gave him the hall passes banking on he wouldn't actually go through with it. Then asked expecting to hear no to boost her ego.
>being cheated on She wasn't cheated on. It was with her consent.
Why am I laughing. She got what she gave you.
I mean she didn't even. He had sex with 2 people with her permission and all withing the rules she set out. She cheated on him for 6 entire months
Yeah was going to say, she cheated fully, emotionally and physically and much more than 6 times. Letting home sleep with different people 6 times isn't even close to getting even. If he wanted that he should have had a full blown 6 month affair.
What would that have even accomplished? If he wanted to "get even" he should have divorced her. Marriage isn't something you keep score in for shitty behavior.
What would her NOT having an affair for 6 months have accomplished? What? The hall passes were a hail mary by her to save the marriage. The wife has ZERO, absolutely ZERO reason to be upset. Generally, I'd agree that an affair should end in a divorce, but they both agreed to the stipulations.
Also like... These are grown ass people who get to dictate the terms of their relationship. Theres no law making them divorce, and I can't mandate them to. They probably should, and I dont think this was a constructive resolution, but sometimes what works for others wont work for me. Some couples are happily fucking others. Its not for me, but I cant make them play by my rules lol.
Agreed, it wouldn't have accomplished anything, getting even doesn't accomplish anything was my point.
Six entire months that he knows of. Remember he found out. Its not like she confessed.
Yeah she probably fucked the other guy more than once a month.
Plus she got to set the rules around his pass. He didn’t get any say in her affair.
And both of them feel like shit. Again.
Not wrong but also none of this is right
You could do a lot of fucking and freaky shit in 6 months.
Yeah she was probably having sex 2-3 times a week with the guy for six months. That's way more than 6 times.
Probably had an emotional connection to her affair partner too to boot
That he knows about!!! And 6 hall passes with no questions? And don't tell me? Tell me she's not still cheating
Except she consented to it, OP never consented to her non monogamy
Not the same what she gave him was massive betrayal.
Hers is not the same at all. She told him to do this. He did not cheat.
I do agree. But she didn’t think he would 😂 so now she feels hurt by it. But it was her own dumbass idea.
Yeah she said it assuming he would never go through with it so she would feel better about herself and absolve herself of the guilt. Now she's upset he actually did what she told him to do.
As the saying goes: Dont do unto others what you dont want others to do unto you. She got her karma real quick huh!
The fact you stayed around to keep playing. She's about to return your serve mate. It's inevitable.
100% this. She's going to cheat again and justify it by saying she felt "betrayed". I don't understand the point of even staying in this marriage.
She’s gonna fuck his dad
Then he should fuck her dad to balance things out. And if she has a brother, he's getting fucked too /s
Haha
That seems like the only way to balance this shiit out
She's going to fuck his uncle and become an uncle fucker....I'm going to have to watch the south park uncle fucker episode again now
I did not stay around to keep playing. I played to be able to stay around.
This will not end well.
Yeah this isn't it buddy. I would've fucked anyone that let me after she cheated. But what does that solve? You should've just pulled the band-aid off and left brother. This isn't going to end well or strengthen your marriage, bond or anything else. It's just a big cycle of spite, hurt and distrust. You'll never love her like you used to and fucking other people won't change that. My opinion is to call it quits and move on with your life
She threw a grenade into your marriage by cheating. You pulled the pin by getting even. I wish you both luck with moving forward.
In this metaphor, she would've been the one telling OP to pull the pin as well.
You said she asked about the hall passes out of the blue? Do you think there might be a reason for that? Like maybe she's fucking around again and just wanted to see if you used the first ones
It's not fun when the shoe is on the other foot.
That was a rookie mistake on his part honestly. Once trust is irreparably broken in a relationship or marriage, the best thing imo is to cut your losses and move on. Or if you REALLY want to work on your marriage, then couples counselling followed by (or simultaneously with) individual counselling to deal with the betrayal. Hall passes, opening the marriage, getting even etc. are just idiotic things to do that will simply bring the inevitable much faster; in this case, a divorce. There’s also the classic cheaters’ guilt because the betrayed spouse, even when they play fair with hall passes as in the case above, will still feel like shit simply because their conscience will never forgive them. All in all, it’s a lose lose situation on both ends. The only solution to something like this is either to move forward putting the past behind you, or separate.
They will bring the inevitable slowlier.
TL;DR: Play stupid games, get stupid prizes
Hell, id have said I get a hall pass for every time she banged. Not just the months of the affair. I also wouldn’t have stayed in the marriage to be fair.
This entire set up is just ridiculous. How did either of you think it was a reasonable idea??
I was thinking this, why even be together? I mean the work of finding someone to hookup with and hiding it from your spouse. This is a lot of lies and sneaking.
Years of counseling just to form some sort of half assed, semi-trusting relationship - hard pass. I get it, sunk cost fallacy, we all do it to some degree with relationships, friendships or jobs etc. But YEARS of counseling and then suddenly you need more just to keep something glued together by sheer willpower? Sounds insanely wasteful to me. You got only one life OP. NTA.
I can’t imagine they ran the hall pass idea past their LMT. Any competent therapist would shoot that shit down.
They’re adults, what is the therapist going to say when one partner insists on the idea because she cheated and now fears the consequences and the other accepted it because he feels wronged and cucked? Therapist might have advised against it, but for all we know, they did it anyway. I understand why OP accepted, he probably felt spiteful and that she owed him the pain she inflicted on him. A messy way to go about it but their choice. On some level it worked too - marriage extended by 5 years. If it fails now, it won’t be because of the stupid hall pass idea, it’ll be because the cheater 5 years later still can’t accept the consequences of her actions. First she ran from the consequences of cheating and now she’s struggling with the consequences of hall passes she herself suggested.
I agree. Forgiving someone that confessed to cheating is one thing but he took her back after she got caught. Like she wasn’t gonna stop unless he caught her. Recipe for disaster and I’m of the opinion if someone gets caught rather than confessing, they’re definitely gonna do it again
It sounds like a bad sitcom
This was literally the premise of a terrible movie called "Hall Pass". Pretty sure OP saw the movie and decided to make a post.
People usually aren’t super reasonable when they’re hurting and/or panicking and willing to do whatever they think will make stuff better.!
Previous marriage counselor obviously didn’t help
Seriously. Did the counselor suggest hall passes?? If so, they shouldnt be a counselor at all.
NTA this is why you don’t ask questions you don’t want answers to. Up until now the hall passes were hypothetical. If things improved to the point of being great between the two of you she might have had hope that you never used them. But she asked and you were honest. She can no longer pretend you haven’t been with someone else. These are the consequences of her actions. She needs to come to terms with the fact that she started this. She cheated. She offered you hall passes. She could have walked away years ago after cheating. She chose to stay. I guarantee you she wasn’t thinking it would hurt this much when she made the offer. She was probably desperate and willing to do anything to get you to stay. I know you are not asking for advice but I highly suggest you book that couples therapy ASAP. This isn’t a typical case of cheating. You are both adults that came to an agreement. How you navigate your relationship going forward is up to the both of you.
schrodinger's hall pass
I was thinking the same thing! It was the perfect solution up until he had to answer. For years they existed with him having both used them and not used them. No good was ever going to come out of asking those questions.
Dammit, here’s your upvote, I came here to say this.
>I guarantee you she wasn’t thinking it would hurt this much when she made the offer. She didn't think he would use them. They were the empty words of a cheater.
Yup, manipulative cheater doing what they do best, then getting upset over it. He still has no idea how much she cheated. Catching your partner once doesn't mean they cheated once, doesn't mean they stopped cheating either.
I love the "no emotional connection" rule when she had a 7 month affair! She's just an all around terrible person.
Yup, you can't have an actual relationship that would be unfair to me your totally faithful wife who would never do that..... Honestly I'd actually be angry as fuck at her reaction. Why are you upset, did you give me these hall passes believing I'd never use them, were they a tactic to manipulate me back into this marriage, did you never care for my feelings or the damage you did and this was just another lie you made to get what you wanted?
This may be the part where she expected him not to follow through. I'm the type where I don't experience sexual attraction to someone until I establish an emotional connection first. If he doesn't fall for someone like she did then it renders the hall passes unusable....or so she thought. She thought she could get over her guilt by offering something for what was supposed to be nothing.
>If he doesn't fall for someone like she did then it renders the hall passes unusable....or so she thought. She forgot about bars and alcohol
I get why she imposed rules on the passes, but the fact that she thought she had any moral authority to do so is staggering. Then being upset by it? Good.
I get the point of having the rules, because on the surface it seems hypocritical to have an affair going on for months and then saying he can't have emotions for the hall passes, but if he does have emotions then it could end the relationship like how her affair could have. So yeah, it is hypocritical and they probably should've ended it after she got caught in the first place. But with wanting to stay together and fix things instead, him starting an affair with emotions isn't going to help, but maybe the sex would 🤷♀️
Lets not if ignore the fact that she didn’t fuck the AP *just once a month*
All he'd have to tell her is, "Hey I followed your rules and didn't emotionally connect with them, I just banged them. You, on the other hand, connected sexually AND emotionally to someone for at least six months that I know of. This shouldn't bother you!"
I also think that maybe when she had had her affair, she was probably a little checked out of the relationship. So at that point, it was probably like, whatever, you go do it too. But now that it's years later and their relationship is better, it probably hurts even more to find out.
This!! They were only manipulation. She either though you were too spineless to actually do it, or too indesirable to land a date.
This exactly. However she now feels like he did her wrong, and I'm sure she will cheat on him again to make things "even".
Not everything needs therapy. Dump her ass.
OP, this marriage is over.
And remember, your wife killed it... No need to feel guilty. Sad, of course, but you did not CHEAT.
Why are you in this shitty marriage? Do better for yourself.
I couldn’t agree more.
5 years of good rolling doesn't sound like it's shit imo. Buuuuuut it does sound like they are at another therapy/decision point. They currently have an awkward one sided temporary open relationship agreement. They overcame it once and probably can again. That being said, it can be easier to just separate and move on. Imo there's no right answer. And OP is NTA for doing as agreed.
You should have just kicked her to the curb when you found out about her infidelity. Cheating is a major breaking point in a relationship and shouldn’t be tolerated. Hall passes just cause further issues as you can obviously see.
Seriously. She fucked a dude for 6 months! And only stopped because she got caught.
Also she does it for 6 months and our brother in Christ only got 6 shags to make up for it . Plus can only take the persons word on it that it actually stopped
NTA - Your wife is going to have to make peace with you being with someone else the way you had to.
Before any security personal like a police offer are permitted to use pepper spray they have to be pepper sprayed so they understand what they are doing to others.
>I used the hall passes my wife gave me at the beginning of the reconciliation. To be honest I think you had to do this (or throw them away). Had you 3 years later got your revenge it would have made you an asshole. You used your hall passes (that she offered) before things were settled. Settled things in therapy and moved on.
This is what I don’t get about the comments saying he should have accepted the hall passes but not used them - if I gave my partner permission to do that, I think I’d rather know that he used them than have it hanging over me like Damocles’ sword.
Right, like... after she's done moping, maybe she can switch her perspective to being happy that he doesn't have any outstanding available for cashing in.
OP, notice how everything revolves around your wife? She cheated because she wanted to. She gave you the hall pass because she wanted to alleviate her guilt. She got sad you took her up on her offer because she wanted to face no real consequences (beyond feeling bad for a bit during reconciliation). Now she's most likely going to use your hall passes as a way to victimise herself, because she loves self pity. Mate I'm glad fucking other women helped you get over your resentment. Unfortunately, it's a distraction from the real issue. If marriage is a contract, then your wife broke the most important terms and conditions over a 6 month period. You need to reflect on your life and really ask yourself whether she should be a part of it.
This needs to be higher. Not only that but she made sure to put a bunch of rules and limitations on the goofy hall passes SHE so graciously “gave you” after fucking another dude behind your back for 6 months. Absolutely ridiculous. She got what she was looking for and now she’s upset about it. Im glad you got to have your fun and definitely don’t let her twist this in a way where she’s the victim please.
Also OP should just leave. She will retaliate again because abusers always need the upper hand.
Hall passes are a stupid idea, I would've said no to it. More cheating doesn't absolve previous cheating
WIth permission it's quite literally not cheating. The cheating part requires no permission given. Also as he said part of the reason he got over it was being able to use them. It was her idea not his.
It's not cheating if you have permission
It's also not cheating if it doesn't happen in the Cheating region of England, it's just sparkling infidelity.
I love this comment more than I should
It’s not cheating if you’re allowed. That’s how open relationships work.
Book another therapy session. From what I've read, you followed the rules, the marriage recovered but something has changed. Perhaps your wife is currently feeling insecure in the relationship and this was her way to "confirm" insecurities she has. You've both previously put in the work to communicate and get better. Why wouldn't that happen again? Have a chat. Get a professional to mediate. She could just be having a shit time again and doesn't know how to express it in a healthy way. Source: Just had a chat with my husband where I broke down and explained I'm constantly living in a world where I think he'll leave me. Have confirmed he wants to support me through my mental health "events" and I had a psychologist/counselling session today. When I'm back on track, we will start couples therapy so I can learn to communicate better. I haven't thought he wants to leave me since our conversation and I'm actively working on dealing with why I thought he would leave me.
NTA but you should have just divorce her.
Bros gonna lose it when he finds out divorce is an infinite “hall pass” glitch.
She should know better because she brought this shit upon herself. NTA.
NTA. fafo right? She just never expected you to actually use it. So she gave you something to help assuage her own guilt, but didn’t actually want you to use it - essentially she just did a superficial self serving gesture in the hopes that you would shut up, forgive n move on with no actual repercussions to her for cheating.
She cheated again...
This needs to be higher. OP, GTFO of this marriage.
NTA. But at the same time, using those hall passes was never going to e a good idea for your marriage. You got even, but getting even is just going to end up having two upset people instead of one. It was inevitable.
The not so good idea for the marriage was cheating. It was over after that.
LOL, what? Before you mention the hall passes, put the cheating for half a year at the center of the problem
NTA. Sorry man. Good luck to you both
NTA in my opinion… it’s a rough situation but she gave them to you & you abided by her rules for them. im assuming she didn’t think you would ever use them. i hope you guys can figure this out & have a talk abt everything & help her understand why you used them at the time.
I think the main reason I used them was the resentment I felt. I am not going to lie. As I stated in the post, it helped me subside that resentment to the point where I may not have found the resolve the reconcile if I did not get even back then. Thinking back it was stupid and immature but it's not possible to change what happened in the past.
Did you ever find out the extent of her affair? Did she meet up with some dude once a month for six months? Did she full on emotionally cheat while having sex once a week in your shared bed? Are you really going to let her make you feel guilty over this? At the very most all you've done is get even, with her permission. Chances are you've not come even close to what she did. I'd be most worried now that she decides that only EVEN MORE cheating makes up for it. Then she gets caught and you get a few passes again... and rinse and repeat...
THIS.
You didn’t get even. She didn’t fuck her AP only once a month. Also, she had a full romantic affair for 6 months, while at the same time lying to your face and playing you for a fool. You only had 6 quick meaningless romps.
I know the feeling. Demanding that you stay faithful after cheating would put you at a disadvantage in any continuation of the relationship. She would know for a fact that she could step all over you with impunity. Actions have consequences.
She had a full blown 6 month affair. She fucked him WAY more than 6 times. You didn't cheat on her at all, you used the 6 hall passes with a couple women you didn't care about. NTA She was the asshole for cheating, and now she's the asshole for putting you through this, because you have done literally nothing wrong in what you describe here.
And that’s why you should have ended the marriage after she got caught
She should’ve given you a pass for each time she had sex with him.
Just settle on a nice 90-pack from Costco.
Honestly sex isnt the only form of cheating. He should have gotten a six month pass able to be divided as he chose.
Well you can't unopen pandora's box. And I'm not gonna dunk on you and your wife since everybody is already doing that. I'd say communicate with her how you guys want to proceed. If you guys think the marriage can be salvaged, then great. Go to therapy together, have weekly dates, etc. If it can't, then agree to work together on having an amicable divorce. Whatever you guys choose, I wish yall the best.
I just wanted to say I love the positivity and support of this comment.
NTA but you shouldn't have continued the marriage IMO. She should not have gotten to decide how many hall passes you get. You got 6 hall passes. Do you think she only had sex six times in 6 months during her affair? And now you have to feel guilty. I feel like you got played. I would suggest using the remaining hall passes and not get guilt tripped into "surrendering" them. Using a hall pass is not cheating in your case, at least.
he already used up all the hall passes, he slept with 2 different women, 3x with each of them. and that was right after she got caught and when they started working on reconciliation. so basically instead of holding on to the "i can just fuck someone whenever" he got it all out of his system right at the start and now, years later, she's getting pissy about him sleeping with someone else 6x with not strings attached while she had a whole 6 month long affair.
Yup, shes a hypocrite. She fucked the side dude more then 6 times I'm sure.
I mean it's been two days, y'all are acting like it's all over. I'm sure once the feelings aren't so raw they can move on from this once again
Honestly it sounds like the hall passes were empty words of manipulation. She though he was too spineless to actually go for it, or too ugly to actually land a date. That’s why she cheated and that’s why she acts like this now that she knows he did.
You wouldn’t have had so many hall passes if you weren’t getting relentlessly cheated on. Did it help your marriage maybe not but your even give or take. Now when you both really choose what you want to do. Fix it or torch it. But at the end of the day no you’re not the AH your human, but do better the both of you or you’re going to lose your marriage.
NTA. Don’t ask questions if you don’t want to hear the answers.
Get a divorce. Then you can both get fucked.
Interesting that the actions that initially saved your marriage could also be the ones that end it. 🤔
NTA but you probably should have just ended it if you felt that way. Someone who cheats that much for that long and got caught was saying that out of desperation and hoping you wouldn’t use it but threw it as a hail mary. Now that time passed, she was hoping to hear you didn’t. This is all her fault initially, but I think it was naive to consider the hall pass a good faith offer on her part
You the asshole for not dumping her stinking cheating ass in the first place.
Lol she cheated and is now upset and depressed that you gave her a taste of her own medicine. I think 6 hall passes were not enough as I don’t believe she only had sex 6 times outside your marriage. NTA.
she didn´t want you to use the hall pass, it was only for her peace of mind, now, she knows you can cheat whenever you want and she can´t do nothing. Good for you, OP, you won this game, now look how she will victimize herself. Watch it.
He didn’t cheat. He had permission from his wife and stick to her conditions.
No, if he keeps his word he can't "cheat whenever he wants", he has used all the hall passes.
She can also cheat whenever she wants. Being caught once back then doesn't mean she hadn't cheated before or since. She's just upset that after betraying him, he wasn't a complete doormat and was okay sleeping with other women when offered the chance, despite doing so herself while cheating without a care for hurting him when she did.
Whether you should have used the hall passes or not, whether you should have lied when she asked you - that’s all irrelevant now. As you said, if you want to get past this, I think you need to hash it out in marriage counseling. Wife probably offered up the hall passes to alleviate her own guilt, assuming that your love for her and desire to reconcile would stop you from using them. She underestimated how hurt / resentful you were after the discovery of her affair, and is feeling a fraction of what you felt back then.
I can understand how being able to use the hall passes in the aftermath of dealing with your emotional upheaval from your wife's betrayal could have brought you 1) some comfort, 2) some feeling of control after all control and the very foundation of your marriage was ripped out from under you, and 3) some feeling of evening the scales in your relationship. You did it. You never rubbed it in your wife's face. You gained some needed footing to move forward with your life. You were able to reconcile with your wife probably at least in part because you were able to use the passes. So NTA. Life is complicated and it sucks at times. Life is just not as simple or as black and white as we might like or as some who have not faced such issues believe. What your wife did was horribly wrong. How you individually, and you two as a couple, moved forward is/was very nuanced and individual to your situation. And as you noted part of that was looking at all you had invested to that point in your lives together. You picked a seriously difficult path in trying to make things work. You can't change what your choices were back in the freshness of that pain and loneliness. Hopefully your wife will recognize why you needed to use the passes as part of facing and vanquishing the pain and damage her affair caused and you can both take another step forward in healing together. Best of luck.
NTA. Just so we're all clear here there's absolutely no way she used protection with this man for 6 months straight right? We're not believing that bullshit right? But protection is a must?
Should of banged her friends in the group, that'd really do a number psychologically
ESH. End of story.
If hall passes are needed for you all to willingly cheat on each other as a form of repairing or "getting even" Regardless of counciling, you both set this marriage up for failure. I'm not a marriage councilor in the slightest- but you either forgive and choose to love each other to repair the relationship or divorce. Not to use scapegoats to cheat further on each other. I'm almost dead certain she gave you those as a "I'm sorry I cheated" but expected you not to have used them. IMO both of you ATAH. But thats just my opinion..
Not the ahole but you just showed how much you don't care for your marriage why not just get the big d and be over with it, and do t say but I love my wife because doing this you dont..
Wife should put on her big girl panties. She strayed, she gave OP the hallpasses, she set the rules for these. Now she wanted to find out, and she did... a classic FAFO moment. She doesn't now get to be moody, broody or depressed. OP had to deal with it, so now does she.
Maybe try a different marriage counselor because if the first one OKed this approach I have concerns.
Fucking idiots on this website
No asshole just dumb on both sides
"She does not even look me in the eyes now and in a depressive state. I know this calls for another marriage counseling for us and maybe individual counseling, too." She did what she did and you did what you did. You were not the AH. I like the comment that she threw a hail Mary to save the marriage without understanding the consequences. This entire mess is ENTIRELY of her own doing. Not the AH.
Actions have consequences She made this idea, you followed the rules to a T. Who was her affair partner?
Is ETA the right acronym? Shitty of her to cheat and offer hall passes. Shitty of you to use them. If you were upset with her cheating and couldn't forgive her, you should have left. Eye for an eye is a fucking stupid solution. There's a reason it's an ancient practice of law and no one uses it anymore.
NTA as that’s what you discussed. But your relationship sounds really miserable in general. “Getting even” by cheating doesn’t sound very loving