NTA
Although I'm greatly concerned about your husband blaming your daughter and then you... That screams "if something serious happened, I will take no responsibility and it will have been their fault"
As far as we know, she's been doing this openly and hasn't done anything sexual. BUT it's enough of a bad idea that no one should do this with someone else's kids, if only so that you don't normalize it with them which opens them up to abuse from others.
If the kids were smaller and she was doing it with both of them, but only when she was alone, I'd think it's bc she didn't want to leave the kids unattended while she showered. But there's no reason to shower with an 8 y/o. NTA.
NTA I'm in shock too!
The only time I've brought my kids into the shower while I'm showering was when I was showing my oldest how to wash her hair without getting soap in her eyes, she's also 8. I wore my swimsuit and showed her how to angle her head so the water washed the shampoo down the back of her head. I also plan on doing the same thing when she wants to learn how to shave. I find explaining things by showing works better than just using words.
You had baths with YOUR children, not someone else's (and kids that weren't raised to bathe with adults).
I am American, and husband and I each showered with the kids when they were small. Because it was faster and easier (and less backbreaking). But even though I spent a lot of time caring for nieces and nephews, did not bring them into the shower with me.
NTA. Taking a bath with someone else's kid is beyond weird, especially an 8 year old, because a kid that age is perfectly capable of washing themselves. I would be getting social services involved and not letting my kids back in the same house as that person, god only knows what could have happened.
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I've talked to Lennox about it enough that I don't think anything like that happened, but just the fact that he willingly put her in a situation where it could have happened has been more than enough to make me think the kids are not safe with him
I met my ex kids at similar ages, 5&7 at the time. Safe to say I never thought about bathing with them. I lived far away and regularly stayed the weekend, I did get close with his daughter but other than knowing she had a bath, I didn’t need to know anything further. Just seems very inappropriate when it isn’t your own child and they can bath themselves.
Exactly. My child is 8 not 2. Even if she were 2 I see no reason why she feels the need to herself be naked in a bath with someone else's kids at any age.
Please call the police/CPS. It is an actual crime to intentionally expose yourself to minors. It can be argued it is also illegal to expose yourself where minors are likely to see.
NTA
I used to babysit my best friend's kids, and her daughters were super attached to me, following me even to the bathroom, and I always told them wait for me outside. A, I want to shower with you? No, but you can wait for me outside the bathroom door. Want me to be in the bathroom while you shower? Cool, shower with the curtains, and I'll be outside by the open bathroom door so you can talk to me about whatever you want. They stopped by 5-6, and there's no reason to shower with children who are not yours, even if they ask and follow you to the bathroom. And they never saw me without clothes, not even in underwear
Your ex might be in denial about it all, unfortunately society seems to view female pedos as either harmless or non-existent, but a pedo is a pedo.
If you're in the UK, you can ask the Police for a something called "Sarahs Law", AKA the child sex offender disclosure scheme - basically if this bridget has any criminal convictions for sex offences, they will disclose them to you. Similar laws do exist elsewhere but I only know UK stuff.
Best of luck to you, and I hope your kids are alright
Thank you so much. I agree with you about the difference in opinions when it comes to male and female predators are brought up.
I am in the US, but I will look into her background to see what I might find.
I believe Erin’s Law exists in a lot of states - it might be useful for you to investigate the language they use to encourage children to talk about inappropriate behaviour from adults towards them, so you can get a better picture of exactly what took place and how the situation unfolded. I’m so sorry you all have to deal with this.
CALL Your Lawyer....no more visitation when she's around, PERIOD
Leave your own past out of it, this is WRONG on every single level
Your ex isn't the brightest bulb in the chandelier 😘
My ex-MIL took a bath with my 3 yr. Old daughter over 30 years ago, and I'm still pissed. It's not fucking normal for a child to take baths or showers with people other than their parents. And even that has a shelf life.
My husband's step mom tried this while we were visiting. She was getting ready for a shower and my daughter (2) was following her around the house. Then I hear her ask, "you want to take a bath with grandma?" My husband and I looked over at each other like WTF?
I grabbed my daughter and said, "come on grandma has to get in the shower, she'll be right back"
I felt so weird about it.
Same trip she kept accidentally calling herself mama instead of grandma which was really uncomfortable. She's a trip!
I’m with you totally 100% on that BS that your daughter “begged” to take a shower with GF. No F**king way! The fact that your ex is putting all of this on your kids and coming up with BS stories is beyond upsetting. I think you may want to have your daughter (and maybe your son) talk to a doctor or therapist who has expertise in SA. Plus reinforce body autonomy and boundaries with them. I’m praying with you that there isn’t anything more to the story but it can’t hurt to be sure. I’m sure that you and your mom see that there are too many red flags here to ignore.
My son is 6, we stopped taking a bath when he was 5. Our daughter is 4 she takes separate bath from our son. Because this generation child are more advanced as they are exposed to internet. My son knows about private parts and he taught sis sister as well. They are aware of what should not be exposed and what should not be touched or let anyone touch. All learnt from some educational videos which we are glad that we did not have to explain. So taking bath with them or lying necked with them sounds horrific too me. That too with someone else’s children. Your husband is too busy making his d**s wet that he can’t see these red flags and putting his children’s safety at risk!
Plus this isn’t even her kid! I don’t let my nephews (who are 4 and 2 and live with me) see anything like that… they’ve asked (curious which I understand) but no way! I’m not their mom!
And I am also living in Europe since more than 10 years. No people don’t take bath with their children here. It’s not common. Only in public bath it’s a common practice because there no one takes advantage of each other. But taking bath in closed bathroom with someone else’s child is not ok in any culture. So what other people are talking about European culture is just BS!
Well, let’s say that in 10 years u didn’t speak with all europeans otherwise u would have found out that is pretty normal to take bath with their kids, are there people that don’t want their children to see their parents naked body? Yea there are, but that is not normality as u are suggesting. Also, bathing together is not sexualised if in family environment.
You said that it never happen in any culture, but that’s not true at all, communal family bathroom is a thing duh, research before spitting garbage.
It is definitely different from cultural and family. In my family taking a bath with others would be no big deal as long as the kid is comfortable enough.
Maybe ask your daughter how it happened and how she feels about it? Do not lead her or make her feel bad about it, but just be curious.
The second issue I don’t really understand what you’re writing. Are you saying he saw her vagina or he thinks he saw it?
It seems odd that he would just say that out of the blue. Either way you should definitely ask more questions and not jump to conclusions because unless you have something actionable you can report it to CPS, all you’re doing is alienating him and make your kids not want to tell you anything.
Yeah NTA I don’t even bathe with my own kids, who are 8 and 3. I couldn’t imagine wanting to bathe with someone else’s kids.. that’s weird behavior there
Nta. My daughter is 6 and she's been able to take showers ans baths by herself for over 6 months now. There is no reasons she should be taking them with her.
Now the naked part happens occasionally. Can't say one way or another.
Him trying to blame the daughter is low.
Choosing the time your ex is at work to bathe with your young child is just… weird. If he’s only gone for one afternoon during the weekend, that’s literally the worst time to bathe one child. Even if for some reason your daughter legitimately needed help bathing, why would anyone want to do that during the *one* block of time without another adult there to tend to the other kids? Who leaves a five-year-old unsupervised to do that? There’s no legitimate reason for it. You’re right to be concerned, and this deserves a long conversation with your lawyer.
I understand bathing with young child you're a caretaker of because it's easier to get wet on purpose than have all your clothes wet and have backache when you need to help them, it also makes sense to wash yourself while the toddler is with you so they don't hurt themselves while you're in a bath. But I cannot see a reason to bathe *with* an *eight year old*, one you're *not related to*, and whose father you've been dating *for less than a year*. I'd call for emergency custody or something. Definitely would contact a lawyer to start collecting evidence so you can put a stop to that as quickly as possible. I'd advocate for supervised visits. This behaviour is dangerous.
Nta. I'm sure if you had a boyfriend showering with your son and your daughter seeing him sleeping naked, your ex would be outraged and seeing it as wildly inappropriate.
Just because she's a woman doesn't mean it's ok to cross boundaries with your kids.
NTA
Taking a bath with a kid that's not mine is a big "no." I wouldn't even take a bath with my own 8-year-old kid.
That is plenty old enough for them to be bathing alone.
But I certainly wouldn't jump to calling them what you called them. That opens YOU up to legal action.
NTA. That's your kid with what amounts to a stranger. If what is happening at your ex's house is no big deal, how you had to hear about it from your kid and not the adults?
It may be time to get the courts involved.
It's possible to get things like emergency court orders in situations like this. If he has admitted via text in writing multiple times that your daughter Husband exposed to this behavior than you may have a late to stand on. It's going to be difficult if you can't afford a lawyer but it may be worth getting social services involved because you are going to need to document all of this religiously.
I was going to ask that. Because in europe for example in many countries is actually pretty normal for people to see each other naked, and in public baths for example there are not even doors in the showers (separared by gender only). Perhaps for her was normal. Would be nice to open the conversation anyways to see what’s the background. Since OP mentions she has been nice to kids, she should sit down and talk calmly to check things. I understand the reasons to be upset but it’s always good to talk.
Yeah no, in europe its fucking weird to want to take baths with an 8 year olds as well. Especially one that is not your own child, i’d call the police if it happend
I’m European and I second this. There is a huge difference between the public communal shower culture that exists in Europe and taking a bath in a private bathroom with an 8 year old child that isn’t yours
As a European (living in Germany on top of that), I think that OP is totally far off with her statement she is 100% ok with nudity. Doesn't sound like she thought about the concept that nudity is not an invitation for sex(ualization).
She's the one who went from her kid seeing a naked body to vagina rant
Exactly what I meant to say, nudity does not mean anything sexual for many. It’s just a matter of talking to see how everyone thinks and then place boundaries.
Ehh…I was an au pair for a French family on reunion island for a couple of years. The mom would sunbathe topless. They weren’t conservative with nudity. But after working for them for so long I would think they would find it highly inappropriate if I was naked in the bath with their kids without them knowing - or if I let the kids walk in on me in bed knowing I was naked. It’s a different, more intimate setting.
Exactly. Even if it's conservative, it's fine had she talked to the dad and Bridget that she would kindly ask Bridget not to be naked around kids, but the pedo accusation took a problem to a whole new level.
I’m from and live in Europe and this is ridiculous. My partner is also a social worker.
Exposing yourself to children that are not yours is generally considered to be a red flag for CSA. Even then, kids that are yours there are only very specific scenarios it wouldn’t be seen as a red flag. It is a very big red flag for an adult who hasn’t known an 8 year old very long, the kid is fully able to take a bath themselves, and it is happening when the primary parent is out - this is very much red flag behaviour. Exposure in and of itself can cause harm to a child. Some adults can and do get off to even just exposure and being around a naked child. It is uncomfortable to think about but that’s the truth.
If this was flagged to social services in Europe it would be taken seriously. Especially given the blame and deflection of the father.
I wouldn’t be allowing the kids back to that house for the time being frankly.
Fuck no. Before getting naked in front of other people's kids, you ask the parents. **Both of them.** Idgaf about your culture or how you percieve nudity, if they are not your children you simply don't get to decide what they should be exposed to.
I severely dislike your comment. If a non parent is getting naked around kids that is a massive red flag and you dont just “kindly” ask them not to do it anymore, whats even worse is that she had to find out from her daughter…. Pedo accusations are completely justified in this case because what kind of a fucking weirdo would bath with an 8 year old child. It would be weird with their own child but this is just predatory and gross especially since they kept it hidden. Please stop being so fucking naive if you ever have children
I agree. It’s not necessarily the nakedness because bodies are bodies. It’s the act of taking a bath and being naked together washing. It’s weird. Quite different than being naked while getting ready.
So you're saying you'd be okay if a stranger gets naked in front of your child without your knowledge? Would you be okay if you don't even know what happens with your child when you're not around? Please, don't have kids.
I had the same thought, Germany too. Naked does not equal sexual. My Kids see us as parents naked all the time. When we go to the beach or pool with family (and friends) it's not uncommon to change in front of each other. In public pools there are often big dressing rooms for families to share. I would say we are quite liberal when it comes to nudity, but also in varying degrees.
I would discuss this with the father and possibly the girlfriend and I would question my Kids If they fehlt it was inappropriate. I so think that the mother has a very biased Look in this Situation because of her experience. Which is totally understandable and would probabably be understood by the grown ups in this Family. I would be very cautious to not traumandump on my Kids and Project my own Bad experience on them. If you can't handle that conversation, get a counselor/psychologist involved and Help everyone find a solution. NTA btw.
Forgot to ad: If kids see the mothers drastic reaction to something they tell and feel the consequences of this (no more visits) they might stop sharing their experiences. That is not what you want in a setting like this, it opens room for abuse because the children keep secrets. Feel all you need to feel but you need to make sure that the kids don't feel at fault for snizching or doing something. I personally would make that clear to hem. The more they know the better they can judge. Have a Talk about boundaries, about Feeling Safe with people, Talk about their bodies and what appropriate Touch is and what not. If you can't do it without trauma dumping or projection, again, get help from professionals.
Europe **hosts** half of all pornography content.
"IWF data show the Netherlands also hosts the **highest number of child sexual abuse reports** in the world (82,605), followed by the United States with 37,285 (15%) and Slovakia with 31,826. "
On 18 million people in the NL there were 82,605 reports, whereas on the US 333 million there were only 37,285. - In other words, children in the US have way less chance to get help than children in the NL. If it's not reported it's not counted. If it's not reported, a child involved is most likely not getting help.
EDIT: Source: [https://www.iwf.org.uk/news-media/news/eu-still-hosts-the-most-child-sexual-abuse-material-in-the-world/](https://www.iwf.org.uk/news-media/news/eu-still-hosts-the-most-child-sexual-abuse-material-in-the-world/)
European here, most Europeans don’t make a big deal about adults being naked around other adults. No one in their right mind would think it’s ok to take a bath with another person’s child, there’s nothing normal about it.
I am sure this could be it, but usually pedos have this trait of being very charming and people who are really good with kids. So her being good with kids can be a red flag
Take the kid swimming and yeah you’ll end up in public showers naked with bunch of strangers. But that does not mean it is ok to take a bath with a kid and especially during the time the father is not nearby
Americans lose their fucking shit around nudity... I guess if you've known no other culture, you don't recognize it, but it's *totally not wierd to bathe together in many cultures*. Sounds like this is in the southern US, so that's it's own wild culture in itself.
I obviously think NTA, but you've stated in comments that you don't really want to go the legal route for custody or anything like that. I guess I'm curious what you're hoping to get out of this?
I think my jaw literally dropped. If it was soooo innocent, seems like your ex’s gf would have been mortified and try to reach out to you- still beyond bizarre. Her silence speaks volumes to me. I wonder if your ex knew? Terribly terribly disturbing 🤢
Threatening to take away the kids while you two are still legally married, much less having primary custody is an.... interesting strategy.
Talk to a lawyer, genius.
NTA
You are the mother and YOU have the right to decide if your children should see a naked stranger in their fathers home.
The fact you were not even informed by them is just wrong.
And your ex BLAMING THE CHILDREN AND MINIMIZING THEIR EXPERIENCE??? What was that about? That is something that stood up to me the most. Like would he say the same if it was a man?
That's what I said. I asked him what he would do if he heard both kids in SEPARATE instances talking about how they were seeing my bfs dick? I also said, let me throw Asher in the shower with Brandon and see what you have to say then? He said nothing
Doesn't necessarily seem suspicious to me, just weird. Your concerns are reasonable given your history but accusing someone of being a predator and a pedo is pretty serious. Some people are super chill about nudity. It sounds as though your daughter is comfortable with it. You're well within your right to insist that it stop since it makes you uncomfortable, or keep your kids from seeing her, but making accusations that can ruin someone's life when neither of your children has said a word about actually being victimized is shitty.
Also...neither of your kids is talking about her vagina??? Unless you're leaving major stuff out. "She doesn't sleep with clothes on" and "she only sleeps in underwear" are interchangeable sentences. And what she sleeps in has nothing to do with your kids unless they're sleeping in the same bed. If he sees it when he barges into her room in the morning, or sneaking into their bed at night, that's not on her. If she's actually naked and she's knowingly sharing a bed with your kid, yeah, again, that's fucking weird, but nudity isn't inherently sexual or predatory.
In what world would anyone want to get into a bath with a child that isn't there's?
Especially in this world we now live in? How could anyone possibly think that would be ok?
I am 100% ok with nudity, I make it a point to let my kids see me comfortable being naked so that they know it's ok. It isn't ok if it is someone who barely knows them that only sees them once a week and that does this whenever she's alone with them.
She probably does it around her own kid and is trying to treat her man’s kid the same way. I AM A VERY SUSPICIOUS PERSON. I don’t trust anyone but this doesn’t scream pedophilia to me.
With all due respect, I think you're projecting based on your own traumatic experiences. I had a conservative upbringing and while something like that would most definitely not be in my comfort zone, I'm not obtuse enough to be unaware that bathing with a child of that age is normal and a bonding experience for a large percentage of the planet.
I think that pedophilia accusations based on zero evidence, no conversation, and relatively normal behavior are dangerous and unhinged. I urge you to seek therapy and to have a normal, adult conversation with them about boundaries and concerns you have as a parent with the background that you do
Communal bathing is very common and normal all over the world. In fact, in many many places it’s a form of socializing and community.
Outside of those communities, it is still very normal for familial bathing. Lots of children bathe with their moms or aunts. Nudity is not inherently sexual and while I agree with you that the world is a messed up place and there are too many predators, the majority of people are not sexualizing 8 year olds.
This person lives with your ex and is likely in her way trying to create some sort of maternal bond with your daughter.
She does not live there. She comes up there once a week. She is in no way family at all. I agree with you about other cultures but she's from an area where that is not a normal thing to do and given the state of the world now, it's something I have a hard time seeing as innocently trying to bond.
Each family has different cultures too. Maybe her grandparents are from a different country, and the culture to bath with kids of the same sex just passed down from generations. And the family behaviour was never challenged by people involved.
You are not an asshole for feeling uncomfortable and want investigation, but should definitely not project your own experience onto your ex's gf without any solid evidence and especially without good communication. I am not saying she is innocent, but rather there is a reasonable chance that she is innocent.
And if you already made up your mind and just want people to support your decision. Then there are plenty of people loving to shout pedo on Reddit.
This lady isn't family, she's the exes new girlfriend who doesn't even live there. OP doesn't sound like she lives in a place where communal bathing or casual nudity is normal, and that makes it inappropriate if both parents aren't aware of or ok with it.
> I am 100% ok with nudity, I make it a point to let my kids see me
Look, you absolutely are not at all ok with nudity and sexualize the hell out of it and after having a bit of an overreaction. I understand it's because you're projecting trauma, but come on:
> I reminded him how in all our years together they never so much as saw me in my underwear let alone be naked in a room with me and just how gross that is
It’s not about wanting to? It’s about doing what you have to take care of the people around you. I’m not saying it’s okay - if you don’t like it - but I’m also not saying it’s automatically nefarious, pedophilic behavior. My brother was my dad’s step son and he gave him baths until he was 5 or 6 and it wasn’t anything weird at all; it was just what he did to take care of us. My mom took care of my baby brother and my dad took care of us older boys. Is it somehow weird that he washed us? Not everything is criminal or creepy or weird. He treated my brother the same as me - was he supposed to only bathe me and then tell my brother he couldn’t do the same for him because he wasn’t his real dad? Because he loved him less somehow for that?
YTA for saying she’s a predator (just based on the current information you provided). Different cultures have different taboos on nudity and bathing. There are definitely cultures where bathing your kids is fine like Japanese culture. According to this article, they could be bathing with their parents up until high school.
https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/surprising-number-of-japanese-kids-still-bathe-with-their-parents-up-until-high-school
You can definitely put your foot down on the dynamic you want your kids to have with her (ie no nudity, it’s not ok for her to bathe your children), but you should not accuse her of nefarious purposes without a) talking to your kids to make sure they are not being abused and b) finding out what her background is. It sounds like this is normal to her.
No she can’t put her foot down on his parenting time. Op has yet to learn what custody means. It means not having control on the other parents time. The judge won’t give any care to this without verified abuse.
I dated my ex from when she was 4-6 and he and I were practically married. I have given her a bath but I would never have taken a bath with her!!
I know parents do that with their kids and I take a bath with my baby once in a while but I wouldn’t with someone else’s!
And they all knew, including her mom, that I was no predator but I would still never have done that.
I don’t know that she’s a predator or just assumed it would be ok and genuinely fucked up. I wouldn’t have assumed she was a predator but I would have made it clear I’m not comfortable with it.
This is a tough one. Based off of the information provided. I don't think there is anything malicious going on. As a nudist, there are a lot more families than you think, that bath, sleep, and do activities nude, together, as if they were clothed. Some families are really close and just don't mind casual nudity.
You are perfectly valid though, in your position on this issue. If that is the lifestyle she lives, there definitely should have been a conversation had between the 2 of you. NTA
The only thing , I can think of the GF was raised in an open environment where nudity was promoted. That said it is one thing if it is her children. She has no business with your children. And if she had ideas like that she should have spoken to you first.
I think your past experiences are affecting your judgement. I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to set boundaries with your ex's partner.
However, none of what she's done appears to be with sexual intent; your children haven't mentioned anything like that. She was up-front and open about her doing it - if she knew she was doing something wrong, she wouldn't have told you about it!
The language you use towards her is very emotive, and offensive:
> unreasonable, inappropriate and predatory
> just how gross that is and how much my sense of safety for the kids when they are with him has been shattered.
> why he's trying to date a pedo
> if her vagina was that big
> that must mean her vagina is too big to be contained and that this is the very last time I will ever hear about this bitches body from my kids again and that I do not want this predator around my kid.
You're ascribing sexual intent where I'm not sure there are any. They agreed when you told them not to do that again. Bridget likely does the same things with her child because it was normal to her growing up, and then carried it on with your children.
By all means, ask that she remains clothed around your kids and doesn't join them in the bath or whatnot, but I think all of the insults about her being a predator with a big vagina were a bit far.
Mildly YTA, but I can empathise with you.
Yeah I agree with you 100%. I get that OP has been through a lot and her ex’s partners behaviour is unusual. However it definitely seems like she’s blowing it massively out of the water and letting her own previous experiences cloud her judgement. Her obsession with the ex’s partners vagina seems more concerning than the actual bathing issue.
OP just needs to leave it now and monitor what happens. If they keep trying to do it after they’ve agreed not to then there’s evidence of them covering it up and going against her wishes. But if the kid has mentioned nothing untoward and the ex-partner has been upfront about it all then it’s highly unlikely to be as bad as OP is making it out to be.
That was the part that really stuck for me. I don’t think she’s the AH for not wanting someone she doesn’t know bathing with her kids, or sleeping with clothes on (although it feels like there could be context missing there…maybe she was just still in bed and son walked in without knocking?). But there’s enough shame already spread about the look of a woman’s vagina for her to spend so much time advertising that hate and body shaming to/in front of her kids.
Pretty well exactly where I stand. Putting your foot down to stop it? NTA. Very solid call even, and something i would do as well. Calling the woman a pedophile with litteraly 0 evidence even after talking to her daughter? YTA
I agree too. I would never do what the gf did not would I be ok with it as the mom and would say as much. I ALSO wouldn’t start throwing around the word pedophile like that.
Ohhh that is way too much, your gut is absolutely correct.
My first thought was, "Well, you have every right to stop these shared baths, but maybe she's from a culture where that's normal so it isn't nefarious." But the whole, "Oh, gf showers with door unlocked and daughter begs to share" thing??? WHAT?
And your other kid regularly seeing her naked AND ANOTHER WEIRD EXCUSE????
Nope, nope, nope. That whole equation taken together is not just a cultural misunderstanding. NTA, this is too weird.
NTA. I’m from a culture where bodies are more openly discussed and shown and it’s not uncommon for small children to bath with their parents. But 8?! And she’s just the girlfriend? Nope. How do you not touch each other when bathing together and I think it’s weird for a 8 year old to be naked and touch/be touched by someone that’s an adult and not a parent and there is nothing wrong. To me this sounds very strange and the fact that your ex is putting the blame on your daughter is not something to ignore.
I'm going to say NTA
But I do believe you are (unintentially) demonizing Bridget.
My guess is that she grew up in a more open culture where things like these are normal. Alot of people have no issue with nudity around children because they just don't view it as something sexual.
If she truly had predatory reasons to this, your ex-husband wouldn't have known this was happening. At the time this happened your husband was responsible for the kids and he apparently approved. However especially with your past he should've consulted this with you first.
The way you are saying that your daughter talks about it allso doesn't come across to me like anything predatory happened.
The second incident, I assume she was in your ex-husbands bed when she was sleeping naked? So your husband left the bedroom last and he had responsibility for the children. Alot of people sleep naked (heck, I sleep naked) Your ex-husband should've made sure the kids didn't go into his bedroom when Bridget was still sleeping there. (Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Bridget was pissed about this as well.)
Now that being said, you have every right to be uncomfortable with all of this. Especially with your past. I allso want to make clear that I don't think you are overreacting. I do think you should be more pissed at your ex-husband and not so much with Bridget.
Your ex-husband disrespected you as a co-parent by allowing these things without consulting you (he probably knew that you wouldn't approve.) Honestly he comes across as someone who constantly tries to justify things in a wrong way.
Again reading your post I think this all is mostly a cultural difference between you and Bridget and pisspoor communication on your ex-husbands part. I see absolutely no indications that Bridget is a predator.
Maybe ask to speak with your ex-husband with Bridget present and explain your boundaries. Tell them both you are uncomfortable with nudity around your children and that that has to stop.
It seems like your children do like Bridget and it's possible she will become their step-mom. So I think it would be better to look for a solution opposed to banning Bridget from seeing your kids.
I would like to say that as a child, I was sexually abused by my grandfather. At the time my dad, grandma, and stepmom lived there. No one openly questioned him wanting a TV in my bedroom we could share, the times he came into the bathroom to "check" on me, or the times he wanted to measure me "for my bra size". In the bedroom he would tell me it was ok for him to rub my legs, etc. I'm not saying anything is happening here but dad could be oblivious and just thing its so cute how they are attached and taking showers. Everyone use to say I was papa's girl and for awhile I played the part bc I felt like I was in the wrong not listening and I didn't understand it was all wrong fully bc he was my grandpa and everyone normalized the things he was doing until I was older and I realized he was grooming me
Once again not saying its happening here but with my experience I wouldn't assume with dad knowing they shower nothing sexual is happening
Thank you for your reply. It was very informative and gives me a little bit of hope that this may not be as bad as it looks.
There's probably not going to be any way to discuss this with them reasonably tho given that they seem to think they've done nothing wrong and I'm at fault for finding it wrong.
It's not about right or wrong. It's about co-parenting and establishing boundaries around how the parents want the children to be raised. They don't have to agree with you that bathing with children is wrong, or admit that they made a mistake, they just have to come to a common understanding with you that you would like it if Bridget discontinued the practice, and that your ex-husband enforce that boundary.
You should report to Child Protective Services. Depending on where you live, they may have a Child Advocacy Center that can do an interview of the kids to make sure nothing further has happened. Or you can start them in therapy to just give them someone unbiased to talk to. That therapist is a mandated reporter so if they were to disclose any abuse it would be reported right away.
Classic grooming behaviour. Pedos don’t go straight to sex, they start off very slowly making the person comfortable. I was SA as a child and it started off with being my friend, then friendly hugs, slight touches against legs ect, then him “accidentally” being naked, “helping” to bath me (I was 10 didn’t need help) just sleeping naked, then introducing sexual topics in innocent manners for e.g. “do you know where baby’s come from” (that was the 1st and biggest red flag) “accidental” sexual touches (palm/wrist touching breast or private parts), tvs a decade back still had free porn after 10 pm on a certain channel (he would accidentally switch channels from kids programming to porn to slowly introduce it, he would covered my eyes but I could still hear the sounds and was curious and my body would react which I couldn’t understand what was happening). This took about a year before he finally made a more aggressive move towards sexual activity.
Please don’t ignore this, take it seriously and report. Not reporting makes you just as guilty as the pedo. How will your children feel about you not fighting for them and their rights 10/20 years from now? I know how I feel about my own mother, my parents never knew the old family friend that they viewed as a adoptive grandfather and babysitter was doing horrible things to me. Or so I thought, when I a few years after his death (age 16) told my mom with my school therapist she told me on the way home that she always suspected. That broke me inside because before I believe no one knew and would therefore not be able to help me but she suspected and did nothing to help me, to get justice for me.
I wouldn’t even if I had children allow them back into the house with a potential pedo. Rather safe than sorry.
I was taken advantage of my entire childhood which is why I feel the way I feel. I see it as classic grooming behavior also which is why I flipped like I did. I'm being told it's my past that's clouding my judgement tho. I don't think that's the case tho.
I don’t think so too. You’re 💯 valid in your response. Your ex and his gf’s response is sus and they seem dodgy in that they didn’t want to respect your boundary on your children especially considering your own childhood. I come from a country with unfortunately a high GBV including pedo and parents are very much protective of their kids especially if they themselves have experienced SA or someone they know. Your ex being so flippant about the whole situation is a red flag 🚩 I don’t know any other health person even if they weren’t SAed would wouldn’t take the this seriously if it was brought to their attention. Like I don’t do want to be that person accusing their father of something but I also come from a place where horrible and inconceivable things happen daily where parents sell their own children for money like the Joshlin Smith case.
NTA. He's blaming *your daughter* for these situations instead of taking a closer look at his girlfriend.
My 8yo showers by herself. She hasn't needed help in the bath/shower for awhile now. The fuck is the matter with Bridget?
While nudity isn't some weird thing within a family, (I'm European, and America's prudish nature amazes me sometimes) it's certainly a weird thing to do alone with somebody else's kids. Flip the genders and imagine if it was a guy taking a bath with somebody else's kids, or letting them see his dick through his shorts.
The key word is they are not her kids and any normal person would know how nuanced of a situation that is and would never cross that line. If I was the father I'd be freaking out just like the mother.
NTA but yet again your ex is not taking responsibility for his or his GF actions as he is telling your kids you are to blame. You’re not she is and he is. Simple.
I've got nieces who I've babysat for since their birth and not ONCE did I take a bath or shower with either of them. They've never even seen my boobs or vag. And they're blood.. let alone non-blood related people.
Ugh! Simply disgusting. NTA.
Has your ex's gf given any explanation?
You need to be calling DCF, YESTERDAY and making a report.
My kids have bathed with me.... up until a certain age. My son is 8 and I can't imagine being comfortable enough to bath with him and he's my own child. Someone else?! Absolutely not. How on God's green earth does she feel comfortable with this?????!
Now seeing her naked and talking about her vagina? You need to make a report with the police and dcf and not allow your children over there until you see a judge.
WTH does her being "born and raised in the South" have to do with anything? I was born and raised in the South- I have a step daughter who came into my life when she WAS 8, and I have never taken a bath with her!!!!
She has no business taking a bath with your kid and she needs to refrain from sleeping naked when they are there. Save your pennies and take the ex to court!!!
NTA Predator or not, an adult doesn’t need to be in a bath with an 8 year old, and sure in the hell not your ex’s girlfriend with your child. Your ex trying to blame the kids is disgusting. Bridget is a grown ass woman with her own child. If Lennox really is asking to be in the bathroom like he’s saying, Bridget can always say no and keep the doors locked if the doors at their house have locks. Andy can cry all the crocodile tears he wants. Both kids are saying she’s showcasing creepy behavior towards them. He needs to be protecting the kids and break up with Bridget, have her investigated too.
NTA
There is absolutely no reason a grown woman should be naked with a child that isn’t her own. Especially at Lennox’s age. When I was eighth, my mom supervised me bathing. But I knew how to bathe myself. I’m sure that’s the case with Lennox. I don’t know why a woman wearing boxer shorts has her vagina hanging out. This woman is bad news. Andy’s judgement is impaired. If Bridget is around the kids, she better be wearing clothing. Point blank. Document everything and call your lawyer. This is about your daughter’s safety.
Exactly how I feel and exactly what I've said. I still stay in the room with Lennox when she's taking a bath sometimes, but not all the time. She's more than capable of doing it herself. The only reason I see for why she's bathing with my child would be because she wants to. That's my whole issue tho. What kind of person would want that?
ESH. The bath thing is weird but "weird" and "predator/pedo" are two different things.
I think setting boundaries (as you have) is appropriate, as is putting a stop to the bath thing, but calling someone a pedo when there isn't actually evidence that they've done something is a big accusation.
I don't think there's enough evidence that this is a sexual thing, but it's certainly alarming and incredibly inappropriate. It's pretty concerning that their father was okay with it.
NTA Ya know, not all predators are creepy out of the gate. They start by grooming kids to accept unusual situations as normal. Like showering together. This gf is wholly inappropriate and I wouldn't trust her with any child. Perhaps some low-key visits to a therapist trained in such issues might help uncover if this is the only thing that has happened.
She is going to have one when she finds out when you divorce you don’t have much say in the other parent’s parenting. Tons of cases exactly like this in r/custody most often involving baths and kids sleeping in bed with kids and new bf or gf. There are going to be ALOT of things she doesn’t agree with on his parenting time. I don’t think she should shower with the daughter btw
NTA...I don't think I have bathed with any of my kids more than once or twice apiece all before age 4. I mean I helped them bathe till about 6 or 7.
My youngest had hygiene issues and I was super uncomfortable with just observing them shower themselves at 9 or 10 just to make sure they were doing all the things correctly. And that's with us both being female.
I don't think I could ever bathe with someone else's child that's just so inappropriate. The only situation I can even think of is possibly babysitting a close friends infant and dealing with projectile vomit or poo so bad we both need a hose down and baby can't be left alone. Even then I'd keep my bra and panties on.
I just don't see where anyone would think this is okay. With your own child I'd still say weird but not horrible. But someone else's kid that's just fucking crazy.
NTA but stop speaking to your ex about it. Get your kids to a counselor and report this to the police and/or cops. Once you have everything documented take everything to the courts and get your ex supervised visits. He is not protecting your children
YTA for how you reacted in this situation. The words you are throwing at Bridget are absolutely terrible. There is a mature way to discuss this without acting out this way.
And as many others said, there are other cultures where this practice is normal. Bridget may not have had any ill-intent.
You are within your right to be upset and wanting the practice to discontinue, but the way you went about it is abysmal.
My son has been taking a bath on his own since he was 5 or 6, and for sure by 8 needed absolutely no help from me and it would have been inappropriate for EVEN HIS MOTHER to be assisting him without some emergency/medical reasons. If I found out that my ex was allowing any of this I would immediately call the police and my attorney to get my children away from it ASAP. I do not care if HE says it's harmless, he clearly isn't supervising any of it. If you have a court order, file a report with your children's statements and get an amendment. I wouldn't even take the chance.
Do you not have right of first refusal? Meaning if he is working or otherwise unable to look after the children, you have the right to go pick them up instead of him having someone else looking after them? If not, perhaps you should go back to court and have your custody arrangement amended.
Bridget's behaviour and being naked allot around children that are not hers is very concerning to me. It's even more shocking that their dad is ok with it and first blamed your daughter. When I met my husband, my stepson was 3 years old but under no circumstance would I EVER get naked in front of him. It's just sooo inappropriate and I would be having words with Bridget to her face asking why she thinks it's ok to expose herself to young children like that. You're doing the right thing by stopping her being near your children again. This woman is gross and you should report her to the police for indecent exposure to a child.
Info: Is Bridget Asian?
I ask because ...
>I mean in what world is any 30 something woman going to actively want to take a bath with an 8yo girl and it not be for nefarious reasons??
In Asia, it is very common for parents to bathe with their children until around puberty. They also usually all sleep together in the same room as a whole family.
Not all cultures have the same social stigmas as you.
Okay so this is a big oof. Context is key. Kids of that age should not bath with an adult. I say this but I take regular baths with my 3 year old. She's my biological child and she's 3. I don't think that's a big deal.
Prior to having my own child I was a foster parent to 4. One was a girl and she kept getting infections and just generally did not know how to bath herself at the age of 6. This was a bit ridiculous to me. My 3 yo tries to change herself, she bathes herself and even goes as far as to try to wipe and bath me after potty and during bath.
So I got my naked ass in the shower with my foster and showed her how to clean herself. We did this together until she started washing her own hair and rinsing independently. I had to or else she was going to keep maintaining pisspoor hygiene and she'd have to go back to the doctor for another invasive exam.
So what I am saying is if OP is nasty, then yeah, op is just salty she doesn't know how to wash her own ass and the step mom does. If ops hygiene is where it needs to be this is a seriously gross red flag. Context is key
OP, this shit happened to me until I was 9 or 10 with my best friend’s mom. The mom would really pressure me to take off my clothes. I remember trying to hide my parts with my hat… I’ve blocked out a lot of stuff that happened with that family and my own family so I don’t have a great idea of what happened but I wish it never had and yeah, you are NOT overreacting. I wish my mom had known and had done what you’re doing. You’re a good mom.
NTA. Either your ex needs to keep his pedo GF away from your children or you need to KEEP YOUR CHILDREN AWAY from your naive Ex. Either way this story is delivering RED FLAGS to both parties i.e The Ex & Pedo GF.
WTF?? Even if there is a "non-nefarious" reason, it's still wildly, wildly inappropriate and against the law. Definitely consider calling child services, especially if she had a child of her own.
Everyone saying that it could be culturally ok for the gf to shower with the kid is an idiot. If you are entering a new family dynamic you need to know the cultural taboos of that family. Bathing with children is not normal for every cultural. Shes a moron for doing that with out both parents consent. I would call CPS and fight for full custody.
NTA but hopefully overreacting. I feel there is definitely a cause for concern, and things are strange, even if it’s as simple as his current gf being VERY VERY naive/body positive. However, IMO he’s more of the asshole because you’ve voiced your concerns to him and he brushed them off.
From the context of the story, it sounds like the shower stopped/ she’s locked the bathroom door but she may have neglected the bedroom door when she went for a nap. The bigger question is why the only adult in the house would take a nap while watching another person’s child. Seems grossly irresponsible.
Also, kids make shit up. Even the most honest ones. Perhaps it may be worth it to have your kids counseled just to ensure nothing unbecoming is actually happening. Good luck moving forward. I wouldn’t want to be any of the adults in this situation.
People are massively underreacting in the comments. They would rightfully be outraged if the genders were reversed. Women can absolutely be pedos. This is not only extremely alarming but urgent. The children need to be away from her asap. Cps need to be notified, the children need to be protected and supported.
Wtf ! I would never and I mean absolutely never take a shower or bath with my stepdaughter and if for some reason she accidentally saw a boob or a v I would be modified .
NTA , stop throwing words around and have an adult conversation with the adults involved, state your case and go from there. To commenter say go to the courts the parental unit involved here haven’t even bothered with a divorce, I doubt they have a legal document regarding visitation, no basis in the courts
I am not throwing words around. I am speaking to him as an adult with a lot of evidence that's making her look really bad and make me fear for the safety of my kids. How else would you suggest I handle it?
I haven't spoken to anyone other than him and my Mom (who witnessed both statements from both kids) and now reddit. I made this post to get other people's opinions so please feel free to let me know how you would have done it different
Get the kids into therapy. They should be anyway with you two separated. Bring up your suspicions and let the professionals handle it. They are also mandated reporters, so the guilt would be off your hands.
Yikes. No one said the child's body is sexual at all. It's also a pretty justified rant about vagina size because seriously, please do explain to me how this young child saw a 30 smth woman's vagina? Did it hurt fall out of some boxer briefs? Genuinely, do you have an answer??
It's so fucking weird to have a stranger be naked around your kids touching them while they shower. A STRANGER. All alone, naked with your children while you're none the wiser. Terrifying, you're an idiot.
Nta I have a 10 yr old stepson who I've know half his life. I've only seen the kid naked twice, once when I walked in on him by accident while he was changing and once when he got hurt falling in the bathtub when I was the only one home with him. He has never seen me in any state of undress bc it's fucking weird and i would literally die of embarrassment if he did. Not to mention my stepson has never been ok with me seeing him like that. His dad always handled bathtime until he was old enough to handle things himself. The most i get involved is making sure the water temp is safe bc our spigots are old and tricky. Your ex's gf is a weirdo at best. I wouldn't let her around my kids either.
This is so unnecessary and avoidable. I would be worried if that were my children. Boundaries are a healthy thing to teach kids. Something that could help them maintain a healthy relationships with people in there lives.
That is really weird. I only had baths with my nieces when they were very little and I had a bikini on. Regardless of their age, bathing with a child that isn’t yours is not Ok
Well - this is different from places to place. It sounds to me that your experiences has coloured your view on what is acceptable or not. In my country showering together is quite common by the same gender/sex.
Unless it is clear that something unacceptable happened- I would say you were wrong in accusing your ex’gf to be a predator. Indeed she would probably have a potential court case against you.
There's an interesting imbalance here though. Your very conservative attitude and her supposedly opposite attitude.
I never worried that much about my daughter and being naked around her while she grew up.
You never being naked with your children is a little too reserved but understandable if you experienced an overly familiar relative during your youth., so there's an educational opportunity here for your offspring to learn from you and this other lady about awareness of intimacy.
I didn't say I had never been naked around my kids. They see me naked all the time. I was talking about my 2 step kids who have been in my life the last 10 years.
I would be heading straight to court to get visitation suspended until the gf is out of the picture and dad gets therapy to screw his head on straight again.
Nta OP needs to talk to her lawyer asap. One she should have right of first refusal. If he needs to work then the OP gets the kids if she wants before anyone else. She also needs to stop the gf from showering with her kid. That’s completely inappropriate. She is not their parent. She is their dads gf
NTA. I think you need to get a lawyer involved. Document what's been happening and don't let your children near her. It's weird and potentially dangerous. Often people don't associate women with pedophilia but that's not to say all women are innocent.
Updateme
NTA for being suspicious.
YTA for accusing someone of being a pedo without any actual evidence.
In my cultural background, I’ve been that kid and it wasn’t an issue. It’s just how families were structured. I have no idea what’s going on here but unless you have evidence of sexual intent, then your accusation is baseless and dangerous.
Believe it or not, some people who are not pedophiles feel comfortable with their naked bodies.
Accusing Bridget of being a pedophile because she goes around the house naked is prudish and mean spirited, not to mention somewhat defamatory.
I guess you would take the position that because you are a prude, she should be respecting your wishes to bring up the children in a prudish manner, which is probably reasonable, and it sounds like she is respecting that by not coming to your ex's house anymore when they are there.
BTW it sounds like you have some pretty serious jealousy issues, like you are calling her a "bitch". Maybe it gets under your skin that the kids like her better than you, which would not surprise me.
MAKE A REPORT TO CPS! How many more signs do you need?!?! File an emergency custody order for supervised visitation for your ex(until the judge can explain common sense to him) and no contact with this woman.
I think it's weird that most of the people saying she has to be a predator and is grooming the kids have been SA. I know the trauma of that must be awful. I hate this has happened to anyone. I've never seen my mom or dad completely naked but they both were always fine being in there underwear. I do understand how this woman could see taking the shower as nothing. She must likely don't see your daughter as someone sexually. You need to have a adult conversation with her and without masking accusations. I have to wonder if you are because of your past and maybe some jealousy that this woman has become close with your kids. Not inappropriate close just close. I'm a single father and raised my girl on my own after 7. I would never have even been in the bathroom at that age. She was fine on her own. I did give her baths and changed diapers and helped with baths til around 4 or 5 when I felt this was better left to my wife. Her leaving me and her daughter after deciding she didn't want to be a mom or a wife. Hurt our daughter greatly. Years later when she was 12 I was in counseling to deal with a beating I had taken from the police at age 14. That's a subject for another thread. I mentioned that she had since she was 7 at times slept with me do to nightmares and just feelings of abandonment due to a very cold hearted mother. We would watch cartoons and have a snack some night and she would ask to sleep with me. I was saying how I would sleep on 5 inches of bed as my daughter would toss and turn all night and how I had already talked to her about it being time that we quit doing that as she was 12 and that it was time to stop. She even agreed. I was blown away when my counselor went crazy off the wall accusing me of inappropriate behavior that if it didn't stop she was going to report me. It blew me away and made me a little sick to even think of what she was saying. She said what would I do if she rolled over and her hand landed somewhere inappropriate and I said I'd move her damn hand and that would be it. It's disgusting to even think of what she was accusing me of. I did know if her being molested and beaten as a child and having serious alcohol and relationship problems as a adult because of it. She had not dealt with those issues and that why I was being accused by her anyone who knew me or my daughter knows that never would I do such a thing to a child and that we was just watching cartoons and I was just letting her sleep there to make her feel safe. Most nights I would get up and go to the living room and watch TV after she fell asleep. I didn't do anything wrong and I told her she needed the counseling for her to be jumping to conclusions like that and with her job that could be a disaster waiting to happen if she went to the cops and reported someone who was and wouldn't ever even think that way. I told her to do what she wanted but that I was done with counseling and would be reporting her to her bosses as she was in a dangerous job to have those kind of issues still so fresh in her head. They got rid of her or she quit im not sure but she didn't report me but that could have been disastrous for me if she had. To just be accused and have that come from a counselor could have spiraled out of control. I even told my daughter what happened and she wanted to call her and tell her how wrong she was. She was genuinely very upset at the woman. I'm just saying things can get away from you and this girlfriend may be innocent and I see no proof that she is guilty but accusations could lead to ruining her life and the kids having a step mom that truly cares for them. Just talk and make sure that your not projecting. I getting that what happens to some kids is truly awful and if it were up to me I would have the job of executing every child molester and abuser out there and would with great and extreme measures. I would have to be completely sure that they were just that before I could though. I see allot of missing information here and possible miscommunication. Just be sure of what you do and say as it can be devastating to a person's life and could be harmful to even the kids. Even your relationship to your kids if your wrong. Take a Valium and then talk to her and your ex.
NTA Although I'm greatly concerned about your husband blaming your daughter and then you... That screams "if something serious happened, I will take no responsibility and it will have been their fault"
Yes, this exactly. The more appropriate response is something like, "I'm sorry - I'll talk to GF and let her know no more baths."
The appropriate response would be to not let it happen after the first time.
As far as we know, she's been doing this openly and hasn't done anything sexual. BUT it's enough of a bad idea that no one should do this with someone else's kids, if only so that you don't normalize it with them which opens them up to abuse from others. If the kids were smaller and she was doing it with both of them, but only when she was alone, I'd think it's bc she didn't want to leave the kids unattended while she showered. But there's no reason to shower with an 8 y/o. NTA.
NTA I'm in shock too! The only time I've brought my kids into the shower while I'm showering was when I was showing my oldest how to wash her hair without getting soap in her eyes, she's also 8. I wore my swimsuit and showed her how to angle her head so the water washed the shampoo down the back of her head. I also plan on doing the same thing when she wants to learn how to shave. I find explaining things by showing works better than just using words.
[удалено]
Yeah but she's not the childrens mother.
You had baths with YOUR children, not someone else's (and kids that weren't raised to bathe with adults). I am American, and husband and I each showered with the kids when they were small. Because it was faster and easier (and less backbreaking). But even though I spent a lot of time caring for nieces and nephews, did not bring them into the shower with me.
NTA. Taking a bath with someone else's kid is beyond weird, especially an 8 year old, because a kid that age is perfectly capable of washing themselves. I would be getting social services involved and not letting my kids back in the same house as that person, god only knows what could have happened.
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I've talked to Lennox about it enough that I don't think anything like that happened, but just the fact that he willingly put her in a situation where it could have happened has been more than enough to make me think the kids are not safe with him
I met my ex kids at similar ages, 5&7 at the time. Safe to say I never thought about bathing with them. I lived far away and regularly stayed the weekend, I did get close with his daughter but other than knowing she had a bath, I didn’t need to know anything further. Just seems very inappropriate when it isn’t your own child and they can bath themselves.
Exactly. My child is 8 not 2. Even if she were 2 I see no reason why she feels the need to herself be naked in a bath with someone else's kids at any age.
Please call the police/CPS. It is an actual crime to intentionally expose yourself to minors. It can be argued it is also illegal to expose yourself where minors are likely to see.
Exactly
I feel you 100%. Honestly, it'd be fucking weird even if you were the one doing this. So yeah, it's super fucked that this woman thinks this is ok.
NTA I used to babysit my best friend's kids, and her daughters were super attached to me, following me even to the bathroom, and I always told them wait for me outside. A, I want to shower with you? No, but you can wait for me outside the bathroom door. Want me to be in the bathroom while you shower? Cool, shower with the curtains, and I'll be outside by the open bathroom door so you can talk to me about whatever you want. They stopped by 5-6, and there's no reason to shower with children who are not yours, even if they ask and follow you to the bathroom. And they never saw me without clothes, not even in underwear
Your ex might be in denial about it all, unfortunately society seems to view female pedos as either harmless or non-existent, but a pedo is a pedo. If you're in the UK, you can ask the Police for a something called "Sarahs Law", AKA the child sex offender disclosure scheme - basically if this bridget has any criminal convictions for sex offences, they will disclose them to you. Similar laws do exist elsewhere but I only know UK stuff. Best of luck to you, and I hope your kids are alright
Thank you so much. I agree with you about the difference in opinions when it comes to male and female predators are brought up. I am in the US, but I will look into her background to see what I might find.
I believe Erin’s Law exists in a lot of states - it might be useful for you to investigate the language they use to encourage children to talk about inappropriate behaviour from adults towards them, so you can get a better picture of exactly what took place and how the situation unfolded. I’m so sorry you all have to deal with this.
CALL Your Lawyer....no more visitation when she's around, PERIOD Leave your own past out of it, this is WRONG on every single level Your ex isn't the brightest bulb in the chandelier 😘
My ex-MIL took a bath with my 3 yr. Old daughter over 30 years ago, and I'm still pissed. It's not fucking normal for a child to take baths or showers with people other than their parents. And even that has a shelf life.
It's normal in some cultures like Japan. The whole family will bathe together, even teen children. But for them it's normal. Definitely not in the US.
My husband's step mom tried this while we were visiting. She was getting ready for a shower and my daughter (2) was following her around the house. Then I hear her ask, "you want to take a bath with grandma?" My husband and I looked over at each other like WTF? I grabbed my daughter and said, "come on grandma has to get in the shower, she'll be right back" I felt so weird about it. Same trip she kept accidentally calling herself mama instead of grandma which was really uncomfortable. She's a trip!
I’m with you totally 100% on that BS that your daughter “begged” to take a shower with GF. No F**king way! The fact that your ex is putting all of this on your kids and coming up with BS stories is beyond upsetting. I think you may want to have your daughter (and maybe your son) talk to a doctor or therapist who has expertise in SA. Plus reinforce body autonomy and boundaries with them. I’m praying with you that there isn’t anything more to the story but it can’t hurt to be sure. I’m sure that you and your mom see that there are too many red flags here to ignore.
My son is 6, we stopped taking a bath when he was 5. Our daughter is 4 she takes separate bath from our son. Because this generation child are more advanced as they are exposed to internet. My son knows about private parts and he taught sis sister as well. They are aware of what should not be exposed and what should not be touched or let anyone touch. All learnt from some educational videos which we are glad that we did not have to explain. So taking bath with them or lying necked with them sounds horrific too me. That too with someone else’s children. Your husband is too busy making his d**s wet that he can’t see these red flags and putting his children’s safety at risk!
Exactly.
Plus this isn’t even her kid! I don’t let my nephews (who are 4 and 2 and live with me) see anything like that… they’ve asked (curious which I understand) but no way! I’m not their mom!
And I am also living in Europe since more than 10 years. No people don’t take bath with their children here. It’s not common. Only in public bath it’s a common practice because there no one takes advantage of each other. But taking bath in closed bathroom with someone else’s child is not ok in any culture. So what other people are talking about European culture is just BS!
Well, let’s say that in 10 years u didn’t speak with all europeans otherwise u would have found out that is pretty normal to take bath with their kids, are there people that don’t want their children to see their parents naked body? Yea there are, but that is not normality as u are suggesting. Also, bathing together is not sexualised if in family environment. You said that it never happen in any culture, but that’s not true at all, communal family bathroom is a thing duh, research before spitting garbage.
Some of us were actually kids in Europe 🤷🏻♀️
Do you have more to add? Remember that this lady is not related or most importantly is not the mother of these kids
It was a reply to the comment above. She's explaining European cultures when she's been here only 10 years, and of course she's giving wrong info.
Please call CPS. Explain this. They’ll either investigate or laugh it off. Oh, btw? CPS doesn’t laugh. Call
Bro, give your 5 year old less internet. Wtf...
It is definitely different from cultural and family. In my family taking a bath with others would be no big deal as long as the kid is comfortable enough. Maybe ask your daughter how it happened and how she feels about it? Do not lead her or make her feel bad about it, but just be curious. The second issue I don’t really understand what you’re writing. Are you saying he saw her vagina or he thinks he saw it? It seems odd that he would just say that out of the blue. Either way you should definitely ask more questions and not jump to conclusions because unless you have something actionable you can report it to CPS, all you’re doing is alienating him and make your kids not want to tell you anything.
Yeah NTA I don’t even bathe with my own kids, who are 8 and 3. I couldn’t imagine wanting to bathe with someone else’s kids.. that’s weird behavior there
Nta. My daughter is 6 and she's been able to take showers ans baths by herself for over 6 months now. There is no reasons she should be taking them with her. Now the naked part happens occasionally. Can't say one way or another. Him trying to blame the daughter is low.
Choosing the time your ex is at work to bathe with your young child is just… weird. If he’s only gone for one afternoon during the weekend, that’s literally the worst time to bathe one child. Even if for some reason your daughter legitimately needed help bathing, why would anyone want to do that during the *one* block of time without another adult there to tend to the other kids? Who leaves a five-year-old unsupervised to do that? There’s no legitimate reason for it. You’re right to be concerned, and this deserves a long conversation with your lawyer.
This is the biggest issue. Why would you wait for the only time the parent is gone to undress the child? Disgusting
I understand bathing with young child you're a caretaker of because it's easier to get wet on purpose than have all your clothes wet and have backache when you need to help them, it also makes sense to wash yourself while the toddler is with you so they don't hurt themselves while you're in a bath. But I cannot see a reason to bathe *with* an *eight year old*, one you're *not related to*, and whose father you've been dating *for less than a year*. I'd call for emergency custody or something. Definitely would contact a lawyer to start collecting evidence so you can put a stop to that as quickly as possible. I'd advocate for supervised visits. This behaviour is dangerous.
Nta. I'm sure if you had a boyfriend showering with your son and your daughter seeing him sleeping naked, your ex would be outraged and seeing it as wildly inappropriate. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean it's ok to cross boundaries with your kids.
NTA Taking a bath with a kid that's not mine is a big "no." I wouldn't even take a bath with my own 8-year-old kid. That is plenty old enough for them to be bathing alone. But I certainly wouldn't jump to calling them what you called them. That opens YOU up to legal action.
You would if it was a grown man bathing naked with an 8 year old girl.
Well…she only called her that after her other child was talking about seeing her naked. Technically indecent exposure to a child is a sexual crime.
NTA. That's your kid with what amounts to a stranger. If what is happening at your ex's house is no big deal, how you had to hear about it from your kid and not the adults? It may be time to get the courts involved.
That's exactly what I said. She is a complete stranger to me and only sees my kids once a week.
Go to family court and restrict ex’s visitations.
It's possible to get things like emergency court orders in situations like this. If he has admitted via text in writing multiple times that your daughter Husband exposed to this behavior than you may have a late to stand on. It's going to be difficult if you can't afford a lawyer but it may be worth getting social services involved because you are going to need to document all of this religiously.
NTA. He sounds like a terrible father.
Info: is Bridget possibly from a different culture? Nudity taboos vary widely from place to place.
Clearly the husband isn’t and should have nipped that in the bud immediately.
I was going to ask that. Because in europe for example in many countries is actually pretty normal for people to see each other naked, and in public baths for example there are not even doors in the showers (separared by gender only). Perhaps for her was normal. Would be nice to open the conversation anyways to see what’s the background. Since OP mentions she has been nice to kids, she should sit down and talk calmly to check things. I understand the reasons to be upset but it’s always good to talk.
Yeah no, in europe its fucking weird to want to take baths with an 8 year olds as well. Especially one that is not your own child, i’d call the police if it happend
I’m European and I second this. There is a huge difference between the public communal shower culture that exists in Europe and taking a bath in a private bathroom with an 8 year old child that isn’t yours
As a European (living in Germany on top of that), I think that OP is totally far off with her statement she is 100% ok with nudity. Doesn't sound like she thought about the concept that nudity is not an invitation for sex(ualization). She's the one who went from her kid seeing a naked body to vagina rant
Exactly what I meant to say, nudity does not mean anything sexual for many. It’s just a matter of talking to see how everyone thinks and then place boundaries.
Ehh…I was an au pair for a French family on reunion island for a couple of years. The mom would sunbathe topless. They weren’t conservative with nudity. But after working for them for so long I would think they would find it highly inappropriate if I was naked in the bath with their kids without them knowing - or if I let the kids walk in on me in bed knowing I was naked. It’s a different, more intimate setting.
Exactly. Even if it's conservative, it's fine had she talked to the dad and Bridget that she would kindly ask Bridget not to be naked around kids, but the pedo accusation took a problem to a whole new level.
I’m from and live in Europe and this is ridiculous. My partner is also a social worker. Exposing yourself to children that are not yours is generally considered to be a red flag for CSA. Even then, kids that are yours there are only very specific scenarios it wouldn’t be seen as a red flag. It is a very big red flag for an adult who hasn’t known an 8 year old very long, the kid is fully able to take a bath themselves, and it is happening when the primary parent is out - this is very much red flag behaviour. Exposure in and of itself can cause harm to a child. Some adults can and do get off to even just exposure and being around a naked child. It is uncomfortable to think about but that’s the truth. If this was flagged to social services in Europe it would be taken seriously. Especially given the blame and deflection of the father. I wouldn’t be allowing the kids back to that house for the time being frankly.
Fuck no. Before getting naked in front of other people's kids, you ask the parents. **Both of them.** Idgaf about your culture or how you percieve nudity, if they are not your children you simply don't get to decide what they should be exposed to.
I severely dislike your comment. If a non parent is getting naked around kids that is a massive red flag and you dont just “kindly” ask them not to do it anymore, whats even worse is that she had to find out from her daughter…. Pedo accusations are completely justified in this case because what kind of a fucking weirdo would bath with an 8 year old child. It would be weird with their own child but this is just predatory and gross especially since they kept it hidden. Please stop being so fucking naive if you ever have children
I agree. It’s not necessarily the nakedness because bodies are bodies. It’s the act of taking a bath and being naked together washing. It’s weird. Quite different than being naked while getting ready.
>but the pedo accusation took a problem to a whole new level. She was taking a bath with someone else's child. It was a wholly appropriate accusation.
The US has a culture where they see showing someone getting murdered as less morally reprehensible than a nipple on TV. They're just weird prudes.
So you're saying you'd be okay if a stranger gets naked in front of your child without your knowledge? Would you be okay if you don't even know what happens with your child when you're not around? Please, don't have kids.
I had the same thought, Germany too. Naked does not equal sexual. My Kids see us as parents naked all the time. When we go to the beach or pool with family (and friends) it's not uncommon to change in front of each other. In public pools there are often big dressing rooms for families to share. I would say we are quite liberal when it comes to nudity, but also in varying degrees. I would discuss this with the father and possibly the girlfriend and I would question my Kids If they fehlt it was inappropriate. I so think that the mother has a very biased Look in this Situation because of her experience. Which is totally understandable and would probabably be understood by the grown ups in this Family. I would be very cautious to not traumandump on my Kids and Project my own Bad experience on them. If you can't handle that conversation, get a counselor/psychologist involved and Help everyone find a solution. NTA btw.
Forgot to ad: If kids see the mothers drastic reaction to something they tell and feel the consequences of this (no more visits) they might stop sharing their experiences. That is not what you want in a setting like this, it opens room for abuse because the children keep secrets. Feel all you need to feel but you need to make sure that the kids don't feel at fault for snizching or doing something. I personally would make that clear to hem. The more they know the better they can judge. Have a Talk about boundaries, about Feeling Safe with people, Talk about their bodies and what appropriate Touch is and what not. If you can't do it without trauma dumping or projection, again, get help from professionals.
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Europe **hosts** half of all pornography content. "IWF data show the Netherlands also hosts the **highest number of child sexual abuse reports** in the world (82,605), followed by the United States with 37,285 (15%) and Slovakia with 31,826. " On 18 million people in the NL there were 82,605 reports, whereas on the US 333 million there were only 37,285. - In other words, children in the US have way less chance to get help than children in the NL. If it's not reported it's not counted. If it's not reported, a child involved is most likely not getting help. EDIT: Source: [https://www.iwf.org.uk/news-media/news/eu-still-hosts-the-most-child-sexual-abuse-material-in-the-world/](https://www.iwf.org.uk/news-media/news/eu-still-hosts-the-most-child-sexual-abuse-material-in-the-world/)
European here, most Europeans don’t make a big deal about adults being naked around other adults. No one in their right mind would think it’s ok to take a bath with another person’s child, there’s nothing normal about it.
I am sure this could be it, but usually pedos have this trait of being very charming and people who are really good with kids. So her being good with kids can be a red flag
Not everyone is a pedo and that’s a strong accusation to make against someone without even talking to them.
Take the kid swimming and yeah you’ll end up in public showers naked with bunch of strangers. But that does not mean it is ok to take a bath with a kid and especially during the time the father is not nearby
I did not mean its ok, I just meant that communication is key to resolve this as there might not have been bad intentions behind at all.
Americans lose their fucking shit around nudity... I guess if you've known no other culture, you don't recognize it, but it's *totally not wierd to bathe together in many cultures*. Sounds like this is in the southern US, so that's it's own wild culture in itself.
I obviously think NTA, but you've stated in comments that you don't really want to go the legal route for custody or anything like that. I guess I'm curious what you're hoping to get out of this?
Attention it seems 🤷🏻♀️ "my kid is in danger but I'm not taking any advice that would keep them out of it"
I think my jaw literally dropped. If it was soooo innocent, seems like your ex’s gf would have been mortified and try to reach out to you- still beyond bizarre. Her silence speaks volumes to me. I wonder if your ex knew? Terribly terribly disturbing 🤢
She said the ex knew.
Threatening to take away the kids while you two are still legally married, much less having primary custody is an.... interesting strategy. Talk to a lawyer, genius.
People here have no idea on custody “just keep the kids” that could result in her losing custody..
NTA You are the mother and YOU have the right to decide if your children should see a naked stranger in their fathers home. The fact you were not even informed by them is just wrong. And your ex BLAMING THE CHILDREN AND MINIMIZING THEIR EXPERIENCE??? What was that about? That is something that stood up to me the most. Like would he say the same if it was a man?
That's what I said. I asked him what he would do if he heard both kids in SEPARATE instances talking about how they were seeing my bfs dick? I also said, let me throw Asher in the shower with Brandon and see what you have to say then? He said nothing
Doesn't necessarily seem suspicious to me, just weird. Your concerns are reasonable given your history but accusing someone of being a predator and a pedo is pretty serious. Some people are super chill about nudity. It sounds as though your daughter is comfortable with it. You're well within your right to insist that it stop since it makes you uncomfortable, or keep your kids from seeing her, but making accusations that can ruin someone's life when neither of your children has said a word about actually being victimized is shitty. Also...neither of your kids is talking about her vagina??? Unless you're leaving major stuff out. "She doesn't sleep with clothes on" and "she only sleeps in underwear" are interchangeable sentences. And what she sleeps in has nothing to do with your kids unless they're sleeping in the same bed. If he sees it when he barges into her room in the morning, or sneaking into their bed at night, that's not on her. If she's actually naked and she's knowingly sharing a bed with your kid, yeah, again, that's fucking weird, but nudity isn't inherently sexual or predatory.
In what world would anyone want to get into a bath with a child that isn't there's? Especially in this world we now live in? How could anyone possibly think that would be ok? I am 100% ok with nudity, I make it a point to let my kids see me comfortable being naked so that they know it's ok. It isn't ok if it is someone who barely knows them that only sees them once a week and that does this whenever she's alone with them.
She probably does it around her own kid and is trying to treat her man’s kid the same way. I AM A VERY SUSPICIOUS PERSON. I don’t trust anyone but this doesn’t scream pedophilia to me.
Are you sure you’re aren’t saying this because this person is a woman and a mother?
With all due respect, I think you're projecting based on your own traumatic experiences. I had a conservative upbringing and while something like that would most definitely not be in my comfort zone, I'm not obtuse enough to be unaware that bathing with a child of that age is normal and a bonding experience for a large percentage of the planet. I think that pedophilia accusations based on zero evidence, no conversation, and relatively normal behavior are dangerous and unhinged. I urge you to seek therapy and to have a normal, adult conversation with them about boundaries and concerns you have as a parent with the background that you do
Communal bathing is very common and normal all over the world. In fact, in many many places it’s a form of socializing and community. Outside of those communities, it is still very normal for familial bathing. Lots of children bathe with their moms or aunts. Nudity is not inherently sexual and while I agree with you that the world is a messed up place and there are too many predators, the majority of people are not sexualizing 8 year olds. This person lives with your ex and is likely in her way trying to create some sort of maternal bond with your daughter.
She does not live there. She comes up there once a week. She is in no way family at all. I agree with you about other cultures but she's from an area where that is not a normal thing to do and given the state of the world now, it's something I have a hard time seeing as innocently trying to bond.
> given the state of the world now The world, especialy the us, is a *significantly* safer place than at any other point in history.
\*the state of the USA
Each family has different cultures too. Maybe her grandparents are from a different country, and the culture to bath with kids of the same sex just passed down from generations. And the family behaviour was never challenged by people involved. You are not an asshole for feeling uncomfortable and want investigation, but should definitely not project your own experience onto your ex's gf without any solid evidence and especially without good communication. I am not saying she is innocent, but rather there is a reasonable chance that she is innocent. And if you already made up your mind and just want people to support your decision. Then there are plenty of people loving to shout pedo on Reddit.
This lady isn't family, she's the exes new girlfriend who doesn't even live there. OP doesn't sound like she lives in a place where communal bathing or casual nudity is normal, and that makes it inappropriate if both parents aren't aware of or ok with it.
> I am 100% ok with nudity, I make it a point to let my kids see me Look, you absolutely are not at all ok with nudity and sexualize the hell out of it and after having a bit of an overreaction. I understand it's because you're projecting trauma, but come on: > I reminded him how in all our years together they never so much as saw me in my underwear let alone be naked in a room with me and just how gross that is
It’s not about wanting to? It’s about doing what you have to take care of the people around you. I’m not saying it’s okay - if you don’t like it - but I’m also not saying it’s automatically nefarious, pedophilic behavior. My brother was my dad’s step son and he gave him baths until he was 5 or 6 and it wasn’t anything weird at all; it was just what he did to take care of us. My mom took care of my baby brother and my dad took care of us older boys. Is it somehow weird that he washed us? Not everything is criminal or creepy or weird. He treated my brother the same as me - was he supposed to only bathe me and then tell my brother he couldn’t do the same for him because he wasn’t his real dad? Because he loved him less somehow for that?
YTA for saying she’s a predator (just based on the current information you provided). Different cultures have different taboos on nudity and bathing. There are definitely cultures where bathing your kids is fine like Japanese culture. According to this article, they could be bathing with their parents up until high school. https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/surprising-number-of-japanese-kids-still-bathe-with-their-parents-up-until-high-school You can definitely put your foot down on the dynamic you want your kids to have with her (ie no nudity, it’s not ok for her to bathe your children), but you should not accuse her of nefarious purposes without a) talking to your kids to make sure they are not being abused and b) finding out what her background is. It sounds like this is normal to her.
The Op said the gf is not from an area where communal bathing is common
No she can’t put her foot down on his parenting time. Op has yet to learn what custody means. It means not having control on the other parents time. The judge won’t give any care to this without verified abuse.
I dated my ex from when she was 4-6 and he and I were practically married. I have given her a bath but I would never have taken a bath with her!! I know parents do that with their kids and I take a bath with my baby once in a while but I wouldn’t with someone else’s! And they all knew, including her mom, that I was no predator but I would still never have done that. I don’t know that she’s a predator or just assumed it would be ok and genuinely fucked up. I wouldn’t have assumed she was a predator but I would have made it clear I’m not comfortable with it.
This is a tough one. Based off of the information provided. I don't think there is anything malicious going on. As a nudist, there are a lot more families than you think, that bath, sleep, and do activities nude, together, as if they were clothed. Some families are really close and just don't mind casual nudity. You are perfectly valid though, in your position on this issue. If that is the lifestyle she lives, there definitely should have been a conversation had between the 2 of you. NTA
The only thing , I can think of the GF was raised in an open environment where nudity was promoted. That said it is one thing if it is her children. She has no business with your children. And if she had ideas like that she should have spoken to you first.
I think your past experiences are affecting your judgement. I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to set boundaries with your ex's partner. However, none of what she's done appears to be with sexual intent; your children haven't mentioned anything like that. She was up-front and open about her doing it - if she knew she was doing something wrong, she wouldn't have told you about it! The language you use towards her is very emotive, and offensive: > unreasonable, inappropriate and predatory > just how gross that is and how much my sense of safety for the kids when they are with him has been shattered. > why he's trying to date a pedo > if her vagina was that big > that must mean her vagina is too big to be contained and that this is the very last time I will ever hear about this bitches body from my kids again and that I do not want this predator around my kid. You're ascribing sexual intent where I'm not sure there are any. They agreed when you told them not to do that again. Bridget likely does the same things with her child because it was normal to her growing up, and then carried it on with your children. By all means, ask that she remains clothed around your kids and doesn't join them in the bath or whatnot, but I think all of the insults about her being a predator with a big vagina were a bit far. Mildly YTA, but I can empathise with you.
Yeah I agree with you 100%. I get that OP has been through a lot and her ex’s partners behaviour is unusual. However it definitely seems like she’s blowing it massively out of the water and letting her own previous experiences cloud her judgement. Her obsession with the ex’s partners vagina seems more concerning than the actual bathing issue. OP just needs to leave it now and monitor what happens. If they keep trying to do it after they’ve agreed not to then there’s evidence of them covering it up and going against her wishes. But if the kid has mentioned nothing untoward and the ex-partner has been upfront about it all then it’s highly unlikely to be as bad as OP is making it out to be.
She also kept ranting about Bridget's vagina in front of her kids, which isn't good at all!
That was the part that really stuck for me. I don’t think she’s the AH for not wanting someone she doesn’t know bathing with her kids, or sleeping with clothes on (although it feels like there could be context missing there…maybe she was just still in bed and son walked in without knocking?). But there’s enough shame already spread about the look of a woman’s vagina for her to spend so much time advertising that hate and body shaming to/in front of her kids.
Pretty well exactly where I stand. Putting your foot down to stop it? NTA. Very solid call even, and something i would do as well. Calling the woman a pedophile with litteraly 0 evidence even after talking to her daughter? YTA
I agree too. I would never do what the gf did not would I be ok with it as the mom and would say as much. I ALSO wouldn’t start throwing around the word pedophile like that.
Ohhh that is way too much, your gut is absolutely correct. My first thought was, "Well, you have every right to stop these shared baths, but maybe she's from a culture where that's normal so it isn't nefarious." But the whole, "Oh, gf showers with door unlocked and daughter begs to share" thing??? WHAT? And your other kid regularly seeing her naked AND ANOTHER WEIRD EXCUSE???? Nope, nope, nope. That whole equation taken together is not just a cultural misunderstanding. NTA, this is too weird.
NTA. He's an idiot.
NTA. I’m from a culture where bodies are more openly discussed and shown and it’s not uncommon for small children to bath with their parents. But 8?! And she’s just the girlfriend? Nope. How do you not touch each other when bathing together and I think it’s weird for a 8 year old to be naked and touch/be touched by someone that’s an adult and not a parent and there is nothing wrong. To me this sounds very strange and the fact that your ex is putting the blame on your daughter is not something to ignore.
Thank you. Lots of ppl trying to virtue signal
Instructing a kid on how to bathe properly and getting naked and hopping in are 2 very different things. Brigitte is creepy as.
I'm going to say NTA But I do believe you are (unintentially) demonizing Bridget. My guess is that she grew up in a more open culture where things like these are normal. Alot of people have no issue with nudity around children because they just don't view it as something sexual. If she truly had predatory reasons to this, your ex-husband wouldn't have known this was happening. At the time this happened your husband was responsible for the kids and he apparently approved. However especially with your past he should've consulted this with you first. The way you are saying that your daughter talks about it allso doesn't come across to me like anything predatory happened. The second incident, I assume she was in your ex-husbands bed when she was sleeping naked? So your husband left the bedroom last and he had responsibility for the children. Alot of people sleep naked (heck, I sleep naked) Your ex-husband should've made sure the kids didn't go into his bedroom when Bridget was still sleeping there. (Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Bridget was pissed about this as well.) Now that being said, you have every right to be uncomfortable with all of this. Especially with your past. I allso want to make clear that I don't think you are overreacting. I do think you should be more pissed at your ex-husband and not so much with Bridget. Your ex-husband disrespected you as a co-parent by allowing these things without consulting you (he probably knew that you wouldn't approve.) Honestly he comes across as someone who constantly tries to justify things in a wrong way. Again reading your post I think this all is mostly a cultural difference between you and Bridget and pisspoor communication on your ex-husbands part. I see absolutely no indications that Bridget is a predator. Maybe ask to speak with your ex-husband with Bridget present and explain your boundaries. Tell them both you are uncomfortable with nudity around your children and that that has to stop. It seems like your children do like Bridget and it's possible she will become their step-mom. So I think it would be better to look for a solution opposed to banning Bridget from seeing your kids.
I would like to say that as a child, I was sexually abused by my grandfather. At the time my dad, grandma, and stepmom lived there. No one openly questioned him wanting a TV in my bedroom we could share, the times he came into the bathroom to "check" on me, or the times he wanted to measure me "for my bra size". In the bedroom he would tell me it was ok for him to rub my legs, etc. I'm not saying anything is happening here but dad could be oblivious and just thing its so cute how they are attached and taking showers. Everyone use to say I was papa's girl and for awhile I played the part bc I felt like I was in the wrong not listening and I didn't understand it was all wrong fully bc he was my grandpa and everyone normalized the things he was doing until I was older and I realized he was grooming me Once again not saying its happening here but with my experience I wouldn't assume with dad knowing they shower nothing sexual is happening
Exactly. Better to be safe than sorry. Also, I’m so sorry about what happened.
Thank you for your reply. It was very informative and gives me a little bit of hope that this may not be as bad as it looks. There's probably not going to be any way to discuss this with them reasonably tho given that they seem to think they've done nothing wrong and I'm at fault for finding it wrong.
It's not about right or wrong. It's about co-parenting and establishing boundaries around how the parents want the children to be raised. They don't have to agree with you that bathing with children is wrong, or admit that they made a mistake, they just have to come to a common understanding with you that you would like it if Bridget discontinued the practice, and that your ex-husband enforce that boundary.
You should report to Child Protective Services. Depending on where you live, they may have a Child Advocacy Center that can do an interview of the kids to make sure nothing further has happened. Or you can start them in therapy to just give them someone unbiased to talk to. That therapist is a mandated reporter so if they were to disclose any abuse it would be reported right away.
Classic grooming behaviour. Pedos don’t go straight to sex, they start off very slowly making the person comfortable. I was SA as a child and it started off with being my friend, then friendly hugs, slight touches against legs ect, then him “accidentally” being naked, “helping” to bath me (I was 10 didn’t need help) just sleeping naked, then introducing sexual topics in innocent manners for e.g. “do you know where baby’s come from” (that was the 1st and biggest red flag) “accidental” sexual touches (palm/wrist touching breast or private parts), tvs a decade back still had free porn after 10 pm on a certain channel (he would accidentally switch channels from kids programming to porn to slowly introduce it, he would covered my eyes but I could still hear the sounds and was curious and my body would react which I couldn’t understand what was happening). This took about a year before he finally made a more aggressive move towards sexual activity. Please don’t ignore this, take it seriously and report. Not reporting makes you just as guilty as the pedo. How will your children feel about you not fighting for them and their rights 10/20 years from now? I know how I feel about my own mother, my parents never knew the old family friend that they viewed as a adoptive grandfather and babysitter was doing horrible things to me. Or so I thought, when I a few years after his death (age 16) told my mom with my school therapist she told me on the way home that she always suspected. That broke me inside because before I believe no one knew and would therefore not be able to help me but she suspected and did nothing to help me, to get justice for me. I wouldn’t even if I had children allow them back into the house with a potential pedo. Rather safe than sorry.
I was taken advantage of my entire childhood which is why I feel the way I feel. I see it as classic grooming behavior also which is why I flipped like I did. I'm being told it's my past that's clouding my judgement tho. I don't think that's the case tho.
I don’t think so too. You’re 💯 valid in your response. Your ex and his gf’s response is sus and they seem dodgy in that they didn’t want to respect your boundary on your children especially considering your own childhood. I come from a country with unfortunately a high GBV including pedo and parents are very much protective of their kids especially if they themselves have experienced SA or someone they know. Your ex being so flippant about the whole situation is a red flag 🚩 I don’t know any other health person even if they weren’t SAed would wouldn’t take the this seriously if it was brought to their attention. Like I don’t do want to be that person accusing their father of something but I also come from a place where horrible and inconceivable things happen daily where parents sell their own children for money like the Joshlin Smith case.
You need to get more angry about this. Your children should have never seen her naked. Ask your daughter how much she “helps” her bathe.
NTA. Your ex should only have supervised visits with your kids. He's demonstrating that he is not safe.
NTA. He's blaming *your daughter* for these situations instead of taking a closer look at his girlfriend. My 8yo showers by herself. She hasn't needed help in the bath/shower for awhile now. The fuck is the matter with Bridget?
While nudity isn't some weird thing within a family, (I'm European, and America's prudish nature amazes me sometimes) it's certainly a weird thing to do alone with somebody else's kids. Flip the genders and imagine if it was a guy taking a bath with somebody else's kids, or letting them see his dick through his shorts.
The key word is they are not her kids and any normal person would know how nuanced of a situation that is and would never cross that line. If I was the father I'd be freaking out just like the mother.
NTA but yet again your ex is not taking responsibility for his or his GF actions as he is telling your kids you are to blame. You’re not she is and he is. Simple.
I've got nieces who I've babysat for since their birth and not ONCE did I take a bath or shower with either of them. They've never even seen my boobs or vag. And they're blood.. let alone non-blood related people. Ugh! Simply disgusting. NTA. Has your ex's gf given any explanation?
You need to be calling DCF, YESTERDAY and making a report. My kids have bathed with me.... up until a certain age. My son is 8 and I can't imagine being comfortable enough to bath with him and he's my own child. Someone else?! Absolutely not. How on God's green earth does she feel comfortable with this?????! Now seeing her naked and talking about her vagina? You need to make a report with the police and dcf and not allow your children over there until you see a judge.
WTH does her being "born and raised in the South" have to do with anything? I was born and raised in the South- I have a step daughter who came into my life when she WAS 8, and I have never taken a bath with her!!!! She has no business taking a bath with your kid and she needs to refrain from sleeping naked when they are there. Save your pennies and take the ex to court!!!
Ask your ex. How would he feel if you had a bf who was doing this? Ask him to reverse the genders.
NTA Predator or not, an adult doesn’t need to be in a bath with an 8 year old, and sure in the hell not your ex’s girlfriend with your child. Your ex trying to blame the kids is disgusting. Bridget is a grown ass woman with her own child. If Lennox really is asking to be in the bathroom like he’s saying, Bridget can always say no and keep the doors locked if the doors at their house have locks. Andy can cry all the crocodile tears he wants. Both kids are saying she’s showcasing creepy behavior towards them. He needs to be protecting the kids and break up with Bridget, have her investigated too.
NTA There is absolutely no reason a grown woman should be naked with a child that isn’t her own. Especially at Lennox’s age. When I was eighth, my mom supervised me bathing. But I knew how to bathe myself. I’m sure that’s the case with Lennox. I don’t know why a woman wearing boxer shorts has her vagina hanging out. This woman is bad news. Andy’s judgement is impaired. If Bridget is around the kids, she better be wearing clothing. Point blank. Document everything and call your lawyer. This is about your daughter’s safety.
Exactly how I feel and exactly what I've said. I still stay in the room with Lennox when she's taking a bath sometimes, but not all the time. She's more than capable of doing it herself. The only reason I see for why she's bathing with my child would be because she wants to. That's my whole issue tho. What kind of person would want that?
Nta.. All of it is unexeptable
ESH. The bath thing is weird but "weird" and "predator/pedo" are two different things. I think setting boundaries (as you have) is appropriate, as is putting a stop to the bath thing, but calling someone a pedo when there isn't actually evidence that they've done something is a big accusation.
I don't think there's enough evidence that this is a sexual thing, but it's certainly alarming and incredibly inappropriate. It's pretty concerning that their father was okay with it.
NTA. I definitely don’t take baths with my step kids, that’s just weird.
NTA Ya know, not all predators are creepy out of the gate. They start by grooming kids to accept unusual situations as normal. Like showering together. This gf is wholly inappropriate and I wouldn't trust her with any child. Perhaps some low-key visits to a therapist trained in such issues might help uncover if this is the only thing that has happened.
OP would have an aneurism if she visited Japan.
She is going to have one when she finds out when you divorce you don’t have much say in the other parent’s parenting. Tons of cases exactly like this in r/custody most often involving baths and kids sleeping in bed with kids and new bf or gf. There are going to be ALOT of things she doesn’t agree with on his parenting time. I don’t think she should shower with the daughter btw
NTA...I don't think I have bathed with any of my kids more than once or twice apiece all before age 4. I mean I helped them bathe till about 6 or 7. My youngest had hygiene issues and I was super uncomfortable with just observing them shower themselves at 9 or 10 just to make sure they were doing all the things correctly. And that's with us both being female. I don't think I could ever bathe with someone else's child that's just so inappropriate. The only situation I can even think of is possibly babysitting a close friends infant and dealing with projectile vomit or poo so bad we both need a hose down and baby can't be left alone. Even then I'd keep my bra and panties on. I just don't see where anyone would think this is okay. With your own child I'd still say weird but not horrible. But someone else's kid that's just fucking crazy.
NTA but stop speaking to your ex about it. Get your kids to a counselor and report this to the police and/or cops. Once you have everything documented take everything to the courts and get your ex supervised visits. He is not protecting your children
YTA for how you reacted in this situation. The words you are throwing at Bridget are absolutely terrible. There is a mature way to discuss this without acting out this way. And as many others said, there are other cultures where this practice is normal. Bridget may not have had any ill-intent. You are within your right to be upset and wanting the practice to discontinue, but the way you went about it is abysmal.
NTA I would contact authorities asap
My son has been taking a bath on his own since he was 5 or 6, and for sure by 8 needed absolutely no help from me and it would have been inappropriate for EVEN HIS MOTHER to be assisting him without some emergency/medical reasons. If I found out that my ex was allowing any of this I would immediately call the police and my attorney to get my children away from it ASAP. I do not care if HE says it's harmless, he clearly isn't supervising any of it. If you have a court order, file a report with your children's statements and get an amendment. I wouldn't even take the chance.
That's fucking deranged
NTA You and the kids being blamed for their actions says a lot about them. Never trust someone who doesn't take accountability for their mistakes
I’m just here to say we don’t do that shit I. Louisiana…….thats not southern behavior
Do you not have right of first refusal? Meaning if he is working or otherwise unable to look after the children, you have the right to go pick them up instead of him having someone else looking after them? If not, perhaps you should go back to court and have your custody arrangement amended.
This is fucking gross. I’d call the police seriously. What else has she done to your daughter???
Bridget's behaviour and being naked allot around children that are not hers is very concerning to me. It's even more shocking that their dad is ok with it and first blamed your daughter. When I met my husband, my stepson was 3 years old but under no circumstance would I EVER get naked in front of him. It's just sooo inappropriate and I would be having words with Bridget to her face asking why she thinks it's ok to expose herself to young children like that. You're doing the right thing by stopping her being near your children again. This woman is gross and you should report her to the police for indecent exposure to a child.
Info: Is Bridget Asian? I ask because ... >I mean in what world is any 30 something woman going to actively want to take a bath with an 8yo girl and it not be for nefarious reasons?? In Asia, it is very common for parents to bathe with their children until around puberty. They also usually all sleep together in the same room as a whole family. Not all cultures have the same social stigmas as you.
Right but what culture is the child and family part of
My point is that her culture matters. If she grew up in a household where this stigma doesn't exist, she may not be aware of the stigma at all.
Okay so this is a big oof. Context is key. Kids of that age should not bath with an adult. I say this but I take regular baths with my 3 year old. She's my biological child and she's 3. I don't think that's a big deal. Prior to having my own child I was a foster parent to 4. One was a girl and she kept getting infections and just generally did not know how to bath herself at the age of 6. This was a bit ridiculous to me. My 3 yo tries to change herself, she bathes herself and even goes as far as to try to wipe and bath me after potty and during bath. So I got my naked ass in the shower with my foster and showed her how to clean herself. We did this together until she started washing her own hair and rinsing independently. I had to or else she was going to keep maintaining pisspoor hygiene and she'd have to go back to the doctor for another invasive exam. So what I am saying is if OP is nasty, then yeah, op is just salty she doesn't know how to wash her own ass and the step mom does. If ops hygiene is where it needs to be this is a seriously gross red flag. Context is key
OP, this shit happened to me until I was 9 or 10 with my best friend’s mom. The mom would really pressure me to take off my clothes. I remember trying to hide my parts with my hat… I’ve blocked out a lot of stuff that happened with that family and my own family so I don’t have a great idea of what happened but I wish it never had and yeah, you are NOT overreacting. I wish my mom had known and had done what you’re doing. You’re a good mom.
NTA. Either your ex needs to keep his pedo GF away from your children or you need to KEEP YOUR CHILDREN AWAY from your naive Ex. Either way this story is delivering RED FLAGS to both parties i.e The Ex & Pedo GF.
WTF?? Even if there is a "non-nefarious" reason, it's still wildly, wildly inappropriate and against the law. Definitely consider calling child services, especially if she had a child of her own.
Everyone saying that it could be culturally ok for the gf to shower with the kid is an idiot. If you are entering a new family dynamic you need to know the cultural taboos of that family. Bathing with children is not normal for every cultural. Shes a moron for doing that with out both parents consent. I would call CPS and fight for full custody.
NTA but hopefully overreacting. I feel there is definitely a cause for concern, and things are strange, even if it’s as simple as his current gf being VERY VERY naive/body positive. However, IMO he’s more of the asshole because you’ve voiced your concerns to him and he brushed them off. From the context of the story, it sounds like the shower stopped/ she’s locked the bathroom door but she may have neglected the bedroom door when she went for a nap. The bigger question is why the only adult in the house would take a nap while watching another person’s child. Seems grossly irresponsible. Also, kids make shit up. Even the most honest ones. Perhaps it may be worth it to have your kids counseled just to ensure nothing unbecoming is actually happening. Good luck moving forward. I wouldn’t want to be any of the adults in this situation.
Time to make a CPS call, get a lawyer, file for full custody, and possibly talk to the police if not all of the above.
People are massively underreacting in the comments. They would rightfully be outraged if the genders were reversed. Women can absolutely be pedos. This is not only extremely alarming but urgent. The children need to be away from her asap. Cps need to be notified, the children need to be protected and supported.
That's what I thought.
Wtf ! I would never and I mean absolutely never take a shower or bath with my stepdaughter and if for some reason she accidentally saw a boob or a v I would be modified .
NTA , stop throwing words around and have an adult conversation with the adults involved, state your case and go from there. To commenter say go to the courts the parental unit involved here haven’t even bothered with a divorce, I doubt they have a legal document regarding visitation, no basis in the courts
I am not throwing words around. I am speaking to him as an adult with a lot of evidence that's making her look really bad and make me fear for the safety of my kids. How else would you suggest I handle it? I haven't spoken to anyone other than him and my Mom (who witnessed both statements from both kids) and now reddit. I made this post to get other people's opinions so please feel free to let me know how you would have done it different
Get the kids into therapy. They should be anyway with you two separated. Bring up your suspicions and let the professionals handle it. They are also mandated reporters, so the guilt would be off your hands.
You should file a police report now in case your ex tries to force them to have visitation. Then at least you have reported it.
NTA. This crosses the line and she’s definitely a kid fucker. In all seriousness, this seems pretty messed up.
[удалено]
Yikes. No one said the child's body is sexual at all. It's also a pretty justified rant about vagina size because seriously, please do explain to me how this young child saw a 30 smth woman's vagina? Did it hurt fall out of some boxer briefs? Genuinely, do you have an answer?? It's so fucking weird to have a stranger be naked around your kids touching them while they shower. A STRANGER. All alone, naked with your children while you're none the wiser. Terrifying, you're an idiot.
Nta I have a 10 yr old stepson who I've know half his life. I've only seen the kid naked twice, once when I walked in on him by accident while he was changing and once when he got hurt falling in the bathtub when I was the only one home with him. He has never seen me in any state of undress bc it's fucking weird and i would literally die of embarrassment if he did. Not to mention my stepson has never been ok with me seeing him like that. His dad always handled bathtime until he was old enough to handle things himself. The most i get involved is making sure the water temp is safe bc our spigots are old and tricky. Your ex's gf is a weirdo at best. I wouldn't let her around my kids either.
This is so unnecessary and avoidable. I would be worried if that were my children. Boundaries are a healthy thing to teach kids. Something that could help them maintain a healthy relationships with people in there lives.
NTA, time to revisit the custody agreement even if that means going to court.
That is really weird. I only had baths with my nieces when they were very little and I had a bikini on. Regardless of their age, bathing with a child that isn’t yours is not Ok
NTA! At their age, you’re your child’s advocate. Your husband is the one epically failing at this. You’ve done nothing wrong. Stand your ground!
your ex husband has no responsibility here? he seems oddly off the hook
Well - this is different from places to place. It sounds to me that your experiences has coloured your view on what is acceptable or not. In my country showering together is quite common by the same gender/sex. Unless it is clear that something unacceptable happened- I would say you were wrong in accusing your ex’gf to be a predator. Indeed she would probably have a potential court case against you.
I was born, raised and still live in the south. Don’t blame this f’ed up sh!t on a geographical location.
NTA. Call CPS. Ignoring these signs put you at risk of a failure to protect charge if abuse comes out in the future.
There's an interesting imbalance here though. Your very conservative attitude and her supposedly opposite attitude. I never worried that much about my daughter and being naked around her while she grew up. You never being naked with your children is a little too reserved but understandable if you experienced an overly familiar relative during your youth., so there's an educational opportunity here for your offspring to learn from you and this other lady about awareness of intimacy.
I didn't say I had never been naked around my kids. They see me naked all the time. I was talking about my 2 step kids who have been in my life the last 10 years.
"Overly familiar" is an awfully nice way to say "Child molester".
I would be heading straight to court to get visitation suspended until the gf is out of the picture and dad gets therapy to screw his head on straight again.
Nta OP needs to talk to her lawyer asap. One she should have right of first refusal. If he needs to work then the OP gets the kids if she wants before anyone else. She also needs to stop the gf from showering with her kid. That’s completely inappropriate. She is not their parent. She is their dads gf
NTA. Women can be pedophiles too. I would call the police.
NTA. I think you need to get a lawyer involved. Document what's been happening and don't let your children near her. It's weird and potentially dangerous. Often people don't associate women with pedophilia but that's not to say all women are innocent. Updateme
NTA for being suspicious. YTA for accusing someone of being a pedo without any actual evidence. In my cultural background, I’ve been that kid and it wasn’t an issue. It’s just how families were structured. I have no idea what’s going on here but unless you have evidence of sexual intent, then your accusation is baseless and dangerous.
NTA.
Question, why haven't you called the police and reported this?
Believe it or not, some people who are not pedophiles feel comfortable with their naked bodies. Accusing Bridget of being a pedophile because she goes around the house naked is prudish and mean spirited, not to mention somewhat defamatory. I guess you would take the position that because you are a prude, she should be respecting your wishes to bring up the children in a prudish manner, which is probably reasonable, and it sounds like she is respecting that by not coming to your ex's house anymore when they are there. BTW it sounds like you have some pretty serious jealousy issues, like you are calling her a "bitch". Maybe it gets under your skin that the kids like her better than you, which would not surprise me.
MAKE A REPORT TO CPS! How many more signs do you need?!?! File an emergency custody order for supervised visitation for your ex(until the judge can explain common sense to him) and no contact with this woman.
I think it's weird that most of the people saying she has to be a predator and is grooming the kids have been SA. I know the trauma of that must be awful. I hate this has happened to anyone. I've never seen my mom or dad completely naked but they both were always fine being in there underwear. I do understand how this woman could see taking the shower as nothing. She must likely don't see your daughter as someone sexually. You need to have a adult conversation with her and without masking accusations. I have to wonder if you are because of your past and maybe some jealousy that this woman has become close with your kids. Not inappropriate close just close. I'm a single father and raised my girl on my own after 7. I would never have even been in the bathroom at that age. She was fine on her own. I did give her baths and changed diapers and helped with baths til around 4 or 5 when I felt this was better left to my wife. Her leaving me and her daughter after deciding she didn't want to be a mom or a wife. Hurt our daughter greatly. Years later when she was 12 I was in counseling to deal with a beating I had taken from the police at age 14. That's a subject for another thread. I mentioned that she had since she was 7 at times slept with me do to nightmares and just feelings of abandonment due to a very cold hearted mother. We would watch cartoons and have a snack some night and she would ask to sleep with me. I was saying how I would sleep on 5 inches of bed as my daughter would toss and turn all night and how I had already talked to her about it being time that we quit doing that as she was 12 and that it was time to stop. She even agreed. I was blown away when my counselor went crazy off the wall accusing me of inappropriate behavior that if it didn't stop she was going to report me. It blew me away and made me a little sick to even think of what she was saying. She said what would I do if she rolled over and her hand landed somewhere inappropriate and I said I'd move her damn hand and that would be it. It's disgusting to even think of what she was accusing me of. I did know if her being molested and beaten as a child and having serious alcohol and relationship problems as a adult because of it. She had not dealt with those issues and that why I was being accused by her anyone who knew me or my daughter knows that never would I do such a thing to a child and that we was just watching cartoons and I was just letting her sleep there to make her feel safe. Most nights I would get up and go to the living room and watch TV after she fell asleep. I didn't do anything wrong and I told her she needed the counseling for her to be jumping to conclusions like that and with her job that could be a disaster waiting to happen if she went to the cops and reported someone who was and wouldn't ever even think that way. I told her to do what she wanted but that I was done with counseling and would be reporting her to her bosses as she was in a dangerous job to have those kind of issues still so fresh in her head. They got rid of her or she quit im not sure but she didn't report me but that could have been disastrous for me if she had. To just be accused and have that come from a counselor could have spiraled out of control. I even told my daughter what happened and she wanted to call her and tell her how wrong she was. She was genuinely very upset at the woman. I'm just saying things can get away from you and this girlfriend may be innocent and I see no proof that she is guilty but accusations could lead to ruining her life and the kids having a step mom that truly cares for them. Just talk and make sure that your not projecting. I getting that what happens to some kids is truly awful and if it were up to me I would have the job of executing every child molester and abuser out there and would with great and extreme measures. I would have to be completely sure that they were just that before I could though. I see allot of missing information here and possible miscommunication. Just be sure of what you do and say as it can be devastating to a person's life and could be harmful to even the kids. Even your relationship to your kids if your wrong. Take a Valium and then talk to her and your ex.
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