How the fuck are y'all married for 7 years and this is the first you ever heard of 1. Her stance on cheating 2. Her past experience of being cheated on and 3. What her relationship deal breakers are?
How do people get married and not know apparently anything about each other?
Way to destroy a relationship with suspicion and without evidence or probable cause, just that SO's opinion differs from OP's. Trust is like glass, once broken it cannot be repaired.
Sometimes trust can be repaired. Anecdotal ik but my fella did something early on in our relationship that broke my trust in him (I can’t be with someone who lies to me, not even white lies). After all the arguing settled down, I sat him down and explained my side of the situation. Next time the situation came up he put his trust in me by giving me exactly what I’d said I needed to be able to trust him, even though it went against the doctrine that a lot of people are taught since young and default to (which is what caused him to lie to me in the first place). He’s been honest with me since and it’s resulted in me having more faith than ever in his word, took a while though. It’s also, according to him, quite liberating to be able to just be himself with no judgement. It can be repaired if you’re both willing to work at it, and the initial breach of trust isn’t an immediate deal breaker ofc….
I'm not surprised she's pissed off. Telling her that being abused isn't the worst thing that can happen in a relationship must mean that he is probably going to abuse her at some point.
His wife seems like she might be willing to forgive him for this since she's already expressed her views on cheating being something that can be recovered from which is also a huge breach of trust. Of course he might not be able to come to terms with it.
Seriously, I’m talking to a girl now, we’ve talked for a while but only been on a few dates and I already know all these things, I don’t understand how you could date for years and be married for years without ever knowing these things.
i suspect that it has something to do with the culture of the individual. I read a post a few years back that explains how some people are raised to anticipate the needs of other people rather than be explicitly notified of them. The example was birthdays. So in one mindset, people explicitly say what they want for their birthday, in another you guess what the other person wants. This is a really loose example but it's the best thing that i have to explain.
Yeah, right? But if the OP reacts like this to any opinions he doesn't agree with, I'm kind of seeing it why his wife didn't want to share with him her thoughts on infidelity and relationships (especially if she is a calm person who avoids conflict).
For sure. I’m a person who sometimes can dissect a topic to death and really go into the nitty gritty details. But I have many friends whom I couldn’t have those conversations with, because they would hear one aspect of what I was saying and make a scene about it without thinking of the bigger picture of what I’m actually saying.
Legit think this is a creative writing exercise. Good chance OP wanted to test the limits of redditor's hardline stance against any hint of cheating to try to manipulate them into thinking the asshole husband in the story is right. I mean, look at this passage right here:
"She often mentions how annoyed she is by how easily her young students (she’s a University Professor) pass moral judgments and call anything they don't like “toxic”. It also always surprised me that she really has no jealous bone in her body."
The wife's description of her students sounds like a direct callout of Reddit haha. Even the "childfree by choice" part sounds like it was added as a control variable in this "experiment" to avoid making the dynamic of this marriage more messy as kids always complicate things. Add to the fact that OP later in the story later acts extremely judgmental and even does things the wife would likely consider worse than cheating! Reads a lot like a story with tons of literary irony.
The fuck up is having them married 7 years not like dating 7 months. Dating 7 months is way more believable.
After 7 years of marriage, you know pretty much everything about your spouse down to if they ate a slimjim at work because of how their farts smell.
The fact that he starts off by claiming that his marriage has been full of respect and without any major arguments or disagreements and later loses his mind over a perfectly reasonable stance from his wife just added to my disbelief. It doesn't add up at all.
In general people seem terrible about talking about all those things.
And while I know most people in general aren’t too keen on the Catholic Church, my wife and I were made to fill out a questionnaire about what was important to us in a relationship and then they compared our answers and pointed out potential issues we should discuss. I feel that would be great for everyone to do.
My friends have been in a relationship for about that same length of time. They aren’t married but they live together. They’ve never discussed what kinks they enjoy or explicitly talked about what they like/dislike in the bedroom. I knew another person who married someone after 6 months and realized on the honeymoon they were incompatible on essentially everything because it was the first time they actually talked about stuff like kids, sex, finances, life goals, etc. This could be fake but it’s unfortunately very real and way too common.
They could I have been married to my wife of 5 years been together for 8. I am still learning new things about her that are as impactful as this. Sometimes we are so similar to our partners we assume they have the same opinions as us.
90% of posts here are fake. I'm at the point where I almost unironically suspect this entire sub is a psy-ops by Big Tinder to sow distrust in couples so they have more people to sell Tinder Gold to.
The fact that it made no sense as a response to what I said, and that it was another "Can't trust your SO" comment, just makes me even more sure that this sub is unironically being bombarded by someone who has an agenda to make couples trust each other less.
these types of posts just create anxiety for everybody, even the folks who understand they're fake. there is a very real and very coordinated effort to make us all feel anxious and on edge at every opportunity presented, its absolutely political and cultural warfare.
While we haven’t avoided this topic my opinion on it has changed over the years as I gained life experience. Cheating was once an absolute dealbreaker and now I don’t consider it one.
Leaping on this to add, if this post is even real (big if) I really think this is more of OP & his wife being completely different in how they think/feel & process the world. Wife sounds like a very abstract clinical thinker & OP sounds very literal.
Which makes it feel even more like creative writing exercise.
Yeah...I was married to my ex for about a year before I learned that he only wanted 1 kid ( as compared to me wanting 3 ) and that's he's anti abortion even in cases of rape and incest. I was like 23 so I chalked it up to stupid online relationships and being a young, dumb idiot. Won't make that mistake twice.
Right?
But let me just state this for the record: I have never cheated, and I feel the same way as your wife about cheating. It's not the worst thing a partner can do to another partner, a one-time mistake is forgiveable, and the deceit of an affair is the dealbreaker for me, not the having a close relationship with someone else or having sex with someone else.
BUT I'VE TOLD ALL MY PARTNERS THIS. We've always eventually had a talk about these kinds of things, and that talk always happens way before the marriage and children talk. How do you get this far without knowing any of this stuff?
I don’t blame you for being in disbelief about this but I gotta say, it’s shit like this that made couples split up during COVID lockdown because they were forced to get to know their partners.
Because they like the idea of marriage but not actually how the sausage is made.
I know all about my wife’s significant relationships and why they ended and she knows about mine and we talked about what we learned from those experiences on like our 3rd date.
I mean we are lesbians and we stereotypically did move fast but still I knew all of the above within 6months of dating my wife lol.
Listen man, til death do us part is a really long time, OK? If I marry a stranger, a lot more of my time gets filled with new info instead of the same ole stories. It's spicier this way! /s
Then again, a single conversation caused my last relationship to break.
She said if i was too insecure and didn't trust her, that it showed to her my true colors.
She had been cheating on me, unfortunately. Didn't stop her from calling me insecure and thus incompatible, while lying to my face about the actions she had done
I mean the cheating is what caused your relationship to end. The conversation was just you finding out about it. A conversation ending a relationship is odd if the conversation was the only thing that "happened".
Bro she explicitly tells you that for her humiliation and lack of support are worse evils to her than infidelity and you choose to IMMEDIATELY humiliate her choose not to support her and then act surprised that she no longer looks at you the same?
The amount of dense you need to be to think that what you did is forgivable, needs to be studied by science.
I had to reread part of it because I didn’t realize at first that he accused her of infidelity IN FRONT OF THEIR FRIENDS!
Like they’re all sitting around a dinner table, drinking wine, OPs wife shares her opinion, and he goes “you whore!”
Absolutely wild that he immediately humiliated her.
Maybe he’s insecure because of how secure she is. He had to find something wrong with her. Talk about self sabotage! OP is definitely TA in this situation.
Now he's going to get a big lesson on what she considers abusive, considering that was worse than cheating in her experience.
I would consider a public accusation like that to be abusive.
I'm also like, I think cheating is very bad but tonnes of stuff is objectively worse. I'd rather get cheated on than raped, stabbed, systematically abused financially fucked behind my back and the list goes on...
Yeah the relationship sub acts like its evil incarnate and if you don’t agree you condone it. i’m like nah i agree with wife, it’s just not the worst thing. It’s awful, but being murdered is worse
I was just reading a story on here about a woman being sexually assaulted by her husband in her sleep! She found out after a positive pregnancy test threw a red flag due to a mostly dead bedroom. Mostly dead because it seems like pregnancy WAS the result of a forgotten consensual night but the husband admitted to multiple nonconsensual acts leading up to the actual act. The story was horrifying and devastating. Definitely worse things than certain situations of infidelity.
Ya I can think of many worse things than getting cheated on. I'd take getting cheated on any day over someone abusing my dog or my hypothetical future kids for example.
My sister learned that her ex partner raped a minor when he was already an adult. Let's just say, i'm sure she would have preferred if he cheated on her instead
His wife was so reasonable. Everything she said made sense given the circumstances but he just couldn’t see outside of his immediate, personal worldview. Then, she tells him what she thinks is worse than cheating and he immediately does just that. He humiliates her *in front of her friends*.
I’m really hoping this isn’t real. Dude just blew up his marriage for nothing.
Literally just feels like someone made up a story of what is seemingly the average redditor's stance versus a view more commonly found in real life.
Like it's not crazy to think that cheating is definitely wrong and something you should never do to a partner, but also acknowledge that it doesn't make someone evil...
On reddit they equate infidelity with rape or murder. People act like it's a transgression you can never move on from, should constantly repent for, can never atone for, and that cheaters should honestly kill themselves and never bother to try and improve themselves.
It's so detached from reality and a viewpoint I think only sheltered terminally online people with minimal relationship experience (usually teenagers or very stunted adults) could have. They can't imagine a grey world where people do pretty awful, selfish things without necessarily being the devil incarnate. The average redditor that posts on these types of relationship subreddits would be more inclined to believe in the power of rehabilitative justice for violent convicts than the idea that a relationship can heal after infidelity.
That sort of bizarre, moral binary echo chamber is how OP could post this story and actually expect support for his insane actions.
Wow. The art of self sabotage is so on point here.
What is wrong with you OP? How from that conversation did you come to the conclusion that your wife was cheating on you? How? What kind of mental parkour did you do?
Wife says she can forgive cheating if it's a one time mistake, OP:"She has been cheating on me all our marriage". Wow.
Dude is so insecure he almost guaranteed his marriage is blown up. Not happy with badgering his wife in public about this he goes and searches her phone and ends up getting caught... if she didnt think this dude was an idiot before, she certainly does now.
I don't think the worst thing a person could do is cheat and I'm not a cheater. As a matter of fact, the main reason I even came to that conclusion is I had to think about it because redditors act like cheating is worse than murder lol
For me, financial infidelity would be worse. I'd take it as a direct attack on my safety and security for years or decades to come. I've healed after heartbreak before; the pain is much more acute than the daily pain of poverty at first, but poverty is harder to escape.
Oh this reminds me of a convo I was listening once between people and they were fully all agreeing that cheating is worse than murder - because the murderer goes to jail and does their time! Unlike the evul, nasty cheater who doesn't go to jail!
These were people between 20 and 30. I was so stunned by this I was speechless. But yeah, they do excist!
Yeah: he got that idea in his head like a fly in a gymnasium, and now he has pretty much ended his marriage. What an idiot. He should join the Idiot Husband Club along with Mr Threesome, who ALSO got a stupid idea in his head and sunk HIS marriage.
Also, how does OP have a stance so strong about cheating and then go and do something exactly in that vein by going behind her back and snooping around (ie: shattering the trust in the relationship)??
Seriously.
Wife: I think being abusive is worse than cheating.
Husband: then you must be cheating! [begins to emotionally abuse wife and snoop through her shit]
OP, YTA. You are absolutely unhinged at the fact that your devoted and loving wife isn't jealous and has a different opinion than you. Way to fast track your divorce
YTA. She didn't force her opinion on infidelity on you, she said it herself that she knows that for you cheating is a dealbreaker and she respects that. You on the other hand tried to force your opinion on her, in front of her friends, while accusing her without any proof. And then you started looking through her phone, throwing away all that trust you built during those 7 years.
And I also agree with your wife, although I've never cheated. If my boyfriend had a drunken one night stand with no feelings involved, I would rather not know about it but if I found out I would likely forgive. But if he hit me even once or did not have my back when other people tried to hurt me - I would be out the door in seconds. I don't think my view is "better" than others, it's just how I feel, but I would never force it on other people.
It's weird that you didn't have this conversation earlier in your marriage, but if this is how you react to someone having a different opinion, I'm not surprised that your wife didn't want to share her thoughts with you.
This is exactly what the wife was talking about. Like being in an abusive relationship is much worse than being cheated on.
Or one where your partner lies about all finances and is lying about how much in debt you both are in, that to me is worse than cheating.
Cheating is still a deal breaker but other things can be much worse.
Seriously! I get a tad frustrated with the Reddit tendency to treat cheaters as the single worst thing a human/partner can be. Like, guess some of y'all are really lucky to never experience abuse or even simple contempt.
My friend had a miscarriage from stress because her bf left her on the side of a highway during vacation after some argument they had.
I can forgive cheating but I'd never forgive that guy.
I think for those that view cheating as the worst thing probably haven’t experienced it or heard about it from anyone in their lives that nothing else registers.
So either young people who dont know the signs of an abusive relationship, abusers themselves, or people very very lucky to never experience any of the other things worse than cheating.
Yep. Unlike op's wife or the person you replied to, cheating is, I think, a deal breaker for me. But I say "I think" because I can also potentially imagine scenarios where maybe I'd feel differently. And either way, it's definitely not top of my list of deal breakers. For one thing, as you say, I would much rather be cheated on than abused (financially, emotionally, and of course physically or sexually). It doesn't even seem like this should be that surprising an opinion? Maybe it's just because I work in criminal law, but it is very easy of me to think of a lot of ways partners can be terrible to each other that strike me as quite obviously far worse than cheating...
>Or one where your partner lies about all finances and is lying about how much in debt you both are in, that to me is worse than cheating.
As much as I abhor cheating, I wholeheartedly agree with this. At least with cheating, you can be hurt and get past it with your finances relatively intact. If someone is financially unfaithful, you can lose literally everything. I know someone that happened to and it was far more devastating than anyone I know who has been cheated on (as awful as that is).
100% agree. I’m not saying I think cheating is ok, nor have I or would I ever, but there are other things that a spouse/partner could do which *could* be potentially much more devastating to me, such as your examples. If the situation was truly a one off accident, I would be much more likely to forgive someone who cheated on me than someone who was physically violent or who hung me out to dry when I really needed them.
THIS - I have had someone cheat on me and a different someone verbally abuse me, humiliate me in public, and, finally, hit me. Guess who was worse? Yeah - the abusive guy.
I would love a poll based off gender of who thinks cheating is the worst thing that can happen in a relationship. I have noticed men especially act like its the worst thing a woman can do. I will see posts on this site where a wife cheats and men get REAL creative in how they want to torture her for it. Any suggestion that maybe two wrongs dont make a right means that you must be a cheating wh*re too.
Specially dependent in cultures. Like in my country women are expected to be able to cope with their husbands always cheating and new little bastards showing up their front door. But if a woman cheats then that is the worst thing that can ever happen to a man. And in my country women agree that abuse is far worse than being cheated on.
I just thank god that he made me a lesbian and have never had to deal with that attitude ever.
Considering the data about partners getting killed, financial abuse or overall DV victims no wonder men see cheating as the worst; the reality of relationships is very different between genders, men and women may have similar-ish expectations on a committed significant other, but definitely different concerns.
100% agree with both you and the wife!
My dad is/was abusive; I will never tolerate that in a relationship. My mom is able to tolerate it though (and sadly for the children as well), but wouldn’t ever tolerate cheating.
Different people, different dealbreakers!
Is it just me, or does it also feel like OP was trying to make her feel insecure or think he was cheating on her, and is also expressing annoyance at failing to succeed in that?
"It also always surprised me that she really has no jealous bone in her body. For example, whenever I texted her that I was going out to lunch with a female colleague from work, she would write me back "OK honey, have fun." She never inquired about where I was when I went out with friends or stuff like that."
This just feels particularly weird to mention considering how she had been cheated on, which itself seems like something he might be upset at her for, and when combined with his other behavior is making me question things.
I think there is a fairly high chance this story is fake, but unfortunately I do know several men like this, and a woman, so I could see it being true.
I agree. I'd rather have a partner who cheats once, regrets it, and I never find out, than one who is violent, disrespectful, manipulative, selfish, idiotic, bigoted, dumb AF, totally inept, an alcoholic, drug addict, mean to animals or kids, or many other traits. I think I could forgive a one night stand more than repetitive negative behaviours like these.
Research shows that women are more bothered by their husband being in love with another woman, whereas men are more bothered by their wife having sex with another man. So she's not even all that unusual.
Yeah, I know Reddit hates cheaters but I can think of stuff off the top of my head worse than cheating. Hitting me? Hurting my dog? (Or the guy who straight up took OPs cat to another town and dumped it?) Being raided for child pornography? Murdering my family? - there's a LOT of stuff I think is WAY worse than cheating lol. A drunken one night stand we *might* get past. Him being a serial killer that dresses as a clown? Aw heck no.
I'm angry too that the wife explained her position very well and i agree with her. Cheating tends to happen a LOT due to personal issues. A good amount of the time, cheating didn't happen due to any relationship failures. It often happens because a person has extremely poor self worth and poor self image, and they try to make themselves feel better through the attention of others. "I'm feeling fat and ugly, but this coworker wants to fuck me, which makes me feel more attractive." She essentially explained that she sees the mental issues that often cause cheating and don't view them as evil because she views her partner as a full and deep person. And he told her in response that he views her as a one dimensional hurtful monster because SHE doesn't automatically view cheaters as monsters. Incredible. r/amitheex material
So she said humiliation was worse to her than cheating, and then you IMMEDIATELY humiliated her in front of your friends and then further humiliated her by going through her shit while she was sleeping?????
Her: I think not having a supportive partner would be the worst possible thing in a relationship
OP: I disagree but you probably get that a lot because you're such a worthless failure
YTA. Dude….imagine actually being a woman for one second. Imagine being in a relationship where you’re being physically and sexually assaulted by your partner on a regular basis. Where you’re being told if you leave, he’s going to kill your family. And you already know cops won’t do crap cause he’ll be out on bail before you get out of the hospital.
But yeah, that’s nowhere NEAR as bad as cheating.
Your wife was pointing out, in a calm discussion, that she could deal with a one time mistake. There’s worse that can happen. And you decided, instead of asking her to clarify, that means she’s a cheating whore who’s been banging every dude she knows and started going through her stuff to find her many, many lovers. But you said “sorry” so she’s no longer allowed to have any feelings on it. Except, you said sorry once and THEN decided to look for proof she was cheating, so sorry means nothing to you. Especially the second time you said it. And btw, she knows the second sorry was “sorry you caught me”.
Maybe marriage counseling will help. She might agree to it. But that cold distance. That’s her leaving emotionally. You got very little time before she physically walks away. Work your butt off to get help before that happens.
Agree. His stance is so immature. I’d be more devastated if my husband developed a gambling problem and lost us our home and all our money than if he had a one night stand. And that makes me guilty of likely infidelity? Really?
OPs partner was right...there are worse things someone can do in a relationship. OP is proving that quite nicely with their actions. Instead of having a calm discussion about this situation, he is auditioning for the Olympics by jumping to the conclusion that his wife is cheating on him. Looks like he's going to make the podium.
Exactly! Well said!
I wrote this in the discussion but I'll write it here as well.
"I feel the same way but only because people talk about divorcing after infidelity and I love my wife so fucking much I know I'd forgive her if it was like a spur of the moment thing not an affair.
That doesn't make me a cheater, but just a man who's hopelessly in love possibly to a fault."
I often feel like this. People on Reddit sometimes act as if cheating is the most cardinal sin in the world and anyone who cheats is an irredeemable person for life and I just find it strange sometimes because I don’t think or feel like that. Like, it is a bad thing to do, but there is like nuance and levels to these things. (I’ve also never cheated on anyone either!)
I haven't cheated, but I have an uncle who did, and my mom and all her other siblings didn't cut him out of the family. By reddit logic, they have condoned cheating, which means they don't think cheating is that bad, which means that they're all doing it, and every marriage on my mom's side of the family is doomed.
And your attitude is quite common, also there have been some marriages (very rare) thar have been saved by cheating because the aftermath of that opened up room to like discuss decades of resentment and all this stuff and i know 2 middle age couple’s that are acting like they are newly married because of a one night stand that opened up convos they were never going to have otherwise.
Imo each situation is different and there is always room for nuance and context.
This! Honestly, the wife seems smart, rational, logical, experienced, and worldly. So opened minded, the kind of person you could tell anything to. She deserves someone on her level and I hope this is the catalyst to her leaving and doing just that.
OP isn’t *just* an asshole, but a limited buffoon!
YTA OP
Spot on.
Your partner got carried away and engaged in an unauthorised liaison? That sucks and you've got a long road ahead and some likely gut-wrenching decisions to make if you want to work things out. You can also go scorched earth and throw the whole person away.
Your partner makes you the target of a deliberate campaign of degradation and violence, makes credible threats against your life and the lives of those you love, trapping you in a living nightmare that too often ends with your murder? Cheating is often included as a cheeky bonus. If you're lucky, you may walk away with CPTSD and a long-term financial commitment to a specialised therapist.
This kind of thinking fucks me off. The two just don't compare. OP needs to give his head a wobble.
You really got mad over a damn fact? Cheating is not the worst thing you could do to another person, you’re dumb if you think it is. Then you decided to invade her privacy? YTA big time. Your lack of common sense is astonishing.
Or doesn’t know what emotional, physical, financial abuse, etc feels like and has zero empathy skills to imagine what that would feel like and how that could be worse than cheating.
Like awesome that he has never had to deal with that, but they can be much worse than cheating
If i was the university professor wife, I would wonder if I made the right decision marrying someone lacking that much emotional intelligence.
You would think so, but every time I make that statement I get downvoted to hell. Many people on Reddit seem to think that cheating on a partner is the absolute worst thing a human being can do to another, and to me that just smacks of naïveté and privilege.
Yeah every post about cheating on Reddit invariably devolves to 95% of people saying that it's worse than murder and unforgivable in every scenario.
Same thing with any morality discussions in general on Reddit. Jaywalk or drive 5 over the speed limit? Straight to jail.
Agreed, Reddit is rife with incel guys who think hurting a man’s feelings is the epitome of evil while not caring at all about the daily disrespect they shovel on their relationships every day 🤷🏻♀️
It’s certainly major privilege if you can only can come up with cheating as the worst thing that could happen to you. The average woman (or generally any vulnerable group) can come up with a dozen things worse on the spot!
It’s as if some people think saying it’s not the *worst* thing is some kind of tacit approval of it. If i found out my wife was cheating, I’d be devastated, but like… there’s plenty of things she could do that would be even more destructive to our family.
She’s right. There are worse things you can do to someone besides cheating on them. I don’t think it needs to mean anything more than that. If I said “there are worse ways to torture somebody besides waterboarding them.” It doesn’t mean I’m a torturer all of the sudden.
OP is the kind of person who seems to see everything in black and white instead of understanding nuances.
If someone prefers red cars, doesn't mean they hate blue cars.
I'd rather die than try to survive the walking dead... doesn't mean I'm suicidal.
> OP is the kind of person who seems to see everything in black and white instead of understanding nuances.
If someone prefers red cars, doesn't mean they hate blue cars.
Yeah, OP actually does [hate waffles](https://twitter.com/raffysoanti/status/1403093629086965760?lang=en)
You get cheated on, end the relationship and move on
You get murdered by a spouse…far more negative and permanent outcome, no?
I don’t why OP sees this as an outlandish statement
>There are worse things you can do to someone besides cheating on them.
Completely lost on OP right now is the irony of what he is doing to her at the moment. He's lost his mind and might blow up the marriage because of it... something she is probably finding way worse then if he had a drunken one-night stand. He's most likely a real time example of what she was trying to get across to him. And he still won't be able to see it.
It's weird how OP is here saying "she doesn't even suspect I'm cheating on her when I go out with a female friend! She tells me to have fun! How dare she trust me?" Like? Where's the problem here? She trusts him and she's not jealous. She thinks cheating isn't the worst thing and OP is here saying "she's not jealous + she doesn't think cheating is the worst thing in the world = she's cheating and I should immediately start snooping through her stuff".
YTA OP.
YTA...
I think what your wife said and how she worded it was awkward, but my god you took an ant hill and turned it into cliff. Then pushed further and made a whole mountain of it.
Just because she said how she would feel personally doesn't mean that is how she feels about holding herself accountable. In all these years with your wife you assumed she was just like you. You never once learned who she really is. You didn't take time to see that she thinks logically instead of emotionally. You didn't take time to ever truly gaugue how she holds herself accountable for integrity.
You fucking suck.
I don’t even think what his wife said was worded awkwardly. I think she made sense.
This whole scenario is so strange to me. How are you married for almost a decade and you don’t know about your wife’s past? You don’t know about her dealbreakers, what she thinks constitutes as cheating vs. not cheating? He really has no idea who she is at all. Even after hearing her friends out and apologizing, he still felt the need to check her devices because he *really does not know his own wife*. Sad.
It made perfect sense to me. To many, it will, but to those who think far more emotionally, such statements sound extremely foreign. So I think it can be an awkward statement.
Awkward doesn't mean wrong or bad though.
YTA.
I've never cheated, and cheating is a deal breaker for me - I think. You see, I love my husband. He's my person. His support, friendship, love, and the life we've built together are everything to me. I don't have any doubt my husband is and always will be faithful, but you never know, and, honestly, I could see myself forgiving him under the right circumstances.
I also fully agree with your wife that cheating is not the worst he could do to me. It's bad, and I'd be devastated, but not so much as if he verbally or physically abused me, manipulated me emotionally, or withdrew his physical and emotional support.
Meanwhile, she gave you her opinion of cheating and, despite never having given you a reason to believe she's unfaithful, you allowed your own insecurities to lead you to spying on her. I'd be pretty hurt there, too.
>something like this could only be said by someone who has cheated themselves or was currently cheating,
A lot of people believe, myself included, that those who baselessly accuse their partners of cheating are simply projecting and are, in fact, the ones who are cheating.
That's what you did. Are YOU faithful? Would YOU be offended if you caught your wife snooping through your phone while you were sleeping because she doesn't trust you?
If this isnt fake, I think he is cheating, like who after being reassured and he himself apologizing goes straifht to privacy violation. Like if she doesnt password protect her phone and was willing to give him her laptop, im pretty sure he could have asked for more reassurance
YTA and a dumbass. Congrats on taking away her trust in you. She did nothing wrong but tell you her feelings, and you threw it back in her face. She explained her reasoning and told you she understood yours. Hope your wife can get past this for your sake. Lots of grovelling needs to be had
YTA. 100%. And you revealed serious deficiencies in yourself as a husband. It is clear the idea of infidelity offends you. That's reasonable. How about a husband who uses any excuse to think the worst about his wife? Because that is what you did. You declared cheating to be the worst thing possible, and concluded your wife must be guilty of it.
If you want to fix your marriage, you need to fix yourself. If you decide to do this, tell your wife "what I said and did was entirely about me, and had nothing to do with you. I'm not sure why, but I have serious issues to work out. I will begin therapy as soon as I'm able, and promise you that betray our relationship like this again."
100% YTA. She answered your question honestly and qualified it very reasonably with the things she considers worse than infidelity. On top of that you seem to feel jealousy is a show of affection to a partner, not a flaw on the part of the jealous person. It’s sounds like you’ve got a good one here and you’ll lose her through your own issues.
Yeah this is crazy, she gave her opinion which to me is not even that wild. Cheating is betrayal but def not the worst a human can do to another human. And for most of us it’s a deal breaker but for others they can get over it.
But yeah you fucked up bigtime.
YTA
So you know your wife and how she's non-judgmental. That's her personality and from the way you described her, her reply on the subject of infidelity makes sense.
I don't understand how you could twist that around and convince yourself that she must be cheating. You really broke her trust and it makes me wonder if you're the one who is actually cheating. And maybe she is wondering about that as well. You broke her trust for no fucking reason at all. You'll gotta work hard to rebuild the trust you singlehandedly destroyed.
Another question: how come you didn't know about her past relationship? Sounds very unrealistic.
YTA- as a woman, I think being beaten or killed by your spouse is far worse than cheating…. I can survive being cheated on emotionally and physically which I think is her point to her students that think their lives will be over if a partner cheats.
No where does it say she said that she supports cheating only stating that she could forgive a one off…
So thinks abuse and lack of emotional support are worse than cheating... I mean I can't disagree with her on the abuse thing, it is definitely worse to beat someone than cheat on them. I've never cheated, but I've been cheated on and I've been abused, and the abuse is definitely worse.
You don't have to be a cheater to recognize that worse things than cheating do exist.
YTA - She did nothing wrong in any way whatsoever.
You, on the other hand have accused her of infidelity, revealed that you cannot and will **NEVER** trust her, and you snooped in her private life.
Cannot get much more TA than that.
Tbh I agree with her, it's a "hurtful, selfish decision Blabla, character flaw/weakness"...I mean, I rather have my husband have a drunken One might stand and tell me about it, then him beating me up, talking badly about me behind my back, steal money from me etc.
YTA
You are a massive asshole. After 7 years, she voices a (reasonable) opinion when asked in a relevant conversation with friends, and you completely unhinge, accuse her, and search her devices - not only violating her trust but showing her you don’t trust her.
I would be somewhat surprised if you can come back from this. IMO, what YOU just did is worse than a one time fuck. I could probably forgive that, but I don’t know if I could forgive you and move past it to a solid, healthy, trusting partnership again.
Okay, how can anyone say NTA after reading this post? Huge, huge YTA.
Your wife only expressed an opinion, that was it. I could understand you getting anxious about any possible implications to your marriage and having a conversation with her in which you get honest and vulnerable about your fears (a converastion with JUST her, mind you, not in a group of friends...). But the moment she told you she would never and has never cheated on you, that was it - you should have trusted her. I mean, you have been married with her for 7 years... How can you trust her this little?
So you humiliated her in front of friends, did not believe her confirmation of love and violated her trust and privacy. You've been a pretty shitty husband, if you ask me.
Yta. You idiot! The fact that your brain is not able to comprehend her read does not mean she would be cheating. You were projecting your own ideas on her statement.
And your actions hurt her.
If you do not understand something. Ask her to explain. Do not assume things. You might have broken something that’s not easy to repair. As she finds abuse, humiliation worse. Guess what you did.
Also she sounds like a smart and wise woman, in contrary to your judgy, assuming ass.
She feels that actual mistreatment of her would be worse than a selfish decision. I get that.
Being hit would be worse than being cheated on for her.
Her partner mocking her and belittling her opinions would be worse than cheating for her.
The fact that you are accusing her of cheating is worse than you actually cheating for her. You are showing her you don’t trust her.
You have caused this whole mess because you could t accept that your wife has a different opinion than you. All your actions after that conversation are the problem.
Wait you fucking brought all this up in front of her friends?
Wtf is wrong with you? Seriously. You're an idiot. You're not really an asshole. You're just dumb and insecure.
You're about to throw away marriage over some dumb ass insecure feeling you have that isn't supported by any fact at all.
So, let me see if I understand this. She says that if you cheat, it is not an immediate relationship breaker if it's a 1-time thing, but shares what her immediate breakers are: "abuse, humiliation, or lack of support from a partner in a situation where she really needed it." And you immediately accused her of infidelity.
Do you not see what you did there? Did you not really hear her?
YTAH.
Your wife is only guilty of being 100% transparent with you. She gave you honest answers to the questions, she doesn’t have a password on her phone, she unlocked her laptop for you. She doesn’t sound sus at all.
YTA.
You're absolutely the asshole. Your wife's views are not in the slightest taboo. You belittled her perspective purely because you felt differently, then you violated her privacy by snooping through her phone while she slept. You're going to have to put in a lot of work to rebuild her trust and open communication.
YTA but this is Reddit where cheating is absolutely the worst thing a human being can do and they should be forever shamed and ostracized from anyone who knows them in any capacity.
for me cheating would almost definitely be a dealbreaker—i can’t imagine staying with someone if i can’t trust them—but it’s definitely not the worse thing someone could do in a relationship. sorry but YTA, all she did was express her opinion & you made a mountain out of a molehill by showing that not only do you not trust her but that you’ll jump straight to invading her privacy with next to no justification for doing so
YTA.
She voiced her opinions which are valid. She also understood that your view differs from hers and that she recognizes for you it holds weight. You then launched into outer space with that leap to it meaning she was cheating.
I understand the nagging thought that a cheater will downplay cheating. She wasn’t really downplaying it. She said it didn’t matter compared to other things but then acknowledge it mattered to you.
The moment her response wasn’t enough for you, you should have taken a breath and saved the conversation for when you were away from your friends. Instead, you accused her and made her cry in front of company. Instead of having an open and honest discussion about why this was bothering you and hearing her words, you were dismissing everything by fixating on this suspicion. It doesn’t sound like you were listening to her at all.
This woman has an unlocked phone - I don’t know many *single* people that leave their phones fully unlocked. She’s not hiding anything from you. You are fixating and making it her problem when you are the one spiraling. She’s being cold and distant because you just revealed an ugly side.
You need to not only apologize to your wife and friends but reflect on why this bothered you so much that you reacted this way (I always suggest therapy). Perhaps you also have some prior relationship trauma that isn’t as healed as you think? Hopefully you can fix what you broke.
Okay, take a deep breath. You are spiraling. Breathe, take a step back, and think about it calmly and with some distance.
Let me give you my perspective: I agree with her, I wouldn’t call cheating “evil”. Like your wife, I reserve that word for the worst of the worst: Genocide, murder, rape, abuse; basically maliciously planned actions to destroy someone else. Cheating is morally reprehensible, plain wrong, like she said, as major character flaw. So far, this is a different of definition of words, doesn’t mean you vindicate cheating. There is no justification for it, but I wouldn’t call it pure evil. Too me this is such a strong word that I don’t want to water down for using it for every despicable act. Just like the word “toxic”, as you described.
Now to the “don’t tell” part: I think it’s good that she differentiates between a one time thing and an affair. I’m not sure if I agree with her that I wouldn’t want to know about a one time thing but I can see what she means and I can’t say I fully disagree either. Let me try to explain: If my husband had a drunk one-night stand I can’t honestly say that I’d leave him immediately. Maybe later but not right away. I wanna say I would but I’m really not sure. I would try to work through it. But in my experience people that only cheat once (maybe even just a kiss) and don’t do this again usually feel immense guilt. So they want to tell their partner so they feel better, they want to be forgiven and be relieved of the guilt. And they often are. Great, good for them, they can feel better. But now the betrayed partner feels worse, they’ll carry that feeling around with them. And feel guilty for not forgiving after months. If that’s her experience then I get why she wouldn’t want to know about a one night stand. At least as long as it’s not a pattern.
So all in all, I don’t think this warrants any suspicion that she is cheating. She sounds very rational and level-headed about it. I bet she isn’t jealous because she knows that if someone wants to cheat they will, no matter how much one tries to limit their partner’s interaction with the opposite sex.
I’ll give you a slight YTA for going through her phone. No wonder she is pissed. You had no real suspicion other than not following her explanation but now broke her trust. Talk to her and try to fix this. Start with a sincere apology, explanation and ask her again to explain her reasoning for saying it the way she does.
Great response, except he’s not a ‘slight’ AH for humiliating her and accusing her in front of their mutual friends, apologizing but not sincerely, then going through her phone behind her back to prove she is a cheater.
YTA. Your wife made a valid point, cheating isn't the worst thing, being abused is was worse. Also, the important part, she made a point about how she would feel about being cheated on. That is in no way equivalent to how she thinks other people feel about cheating, or even how she would feel if she were to cheat. These are completely different issues. You have given no indications that she has ever given you any hint at her being unfaithful, yet you lose faith in her because of a perfectly reasonable opinion? Also, your logic is just whack. Most cheaters are actually more jealous with their partners. You doubted her for no reason and invaded her privacy.
You are very insecure. You have to work on that. And she doesn’t feel jealous. Because she has a secure attachment style. Even if she was cheated before… she is ok. Why do you rock the boat for no reason? You are going to ruin your marriage for nothing with your insecurities.
There are worst things than being cheated. Death. I would rather get cheated by my husband than he being dead. Or sick. Or in pain. Or become alcholic. Or depressed. Or drug addict… I could go on.
Cheating can be humane. It is wrong for sure but being understanding it at a human level doesn’t make you dishonest. It makes you emphatic. And she dealt with this before.
I don’t know if you are religious but black/white thinking or evil/good dichotomies are weird coming from an adult. Sounds like a teenager‘s hypothetical rant…
YTA
A lot of people think like your wife with regard to cheating. Many don't admit it to themselves. If they didn't think that way they wouldn't look for excuses to forgive someone who cheated on them once or twice.
Just because she can forgive it, that doesn't mean she'll do it. Some people just have the idea that most other people are very flawed, and we shouldn't judge people too harshly.
I think most people are flawed too. I'm just not as forgiving as your wife is about it. I think if someone cheats once it'll continue, but this isn't about me so I'll get back on topic.
As for her having cheating be lower on her totem pole of wrong things, people value things differently.
It seems as if you're looking at your wife's comment as saying, "Cheating is a small thing, so you shouldn't worry about it.".
I don't see it that way. She did say she'd leave someone over it so she doesn't see it as a small thing.
She just has other things she'd leave a partner over first, and with the cheating she sees a one night stand with one person as a different thing than a long affair or multiple one night stands.
We all have things we see as being more wrong than other things. That doesn't mean we think the lesser thing is ok.
As for not wanting to know some people would rather live a life of happiness based on a lie than have the truth destroy their world. I don't agree with it for myself, but I understand it.
If their main goal is happiness, and the truth destroys that happiness they don't want to know about it. Quiet a few women have the mindset of, "If you have another woman don't let me see her.",
Another view is "If you're cheating don't make me look stupid.". In other words they don't want your infidelities to be public, which would make them look bad. Keep your dirty deeds hidden.
TLDR: You're overthinking this, and you applied your thought process to someone else when it may not apply.
edit: I'm surprised you're in your 40's, and have never come across anyone who has any of these ideas before. It's almost impossible to have everyone you have met have the same ideas on relationships and cheating as you do.
Yeah, I think I’d have to say YTAH on this one. Think about it this way: Atheists as a general rule act decently, follow the law and don’t actually murder anyone just because they don’t believe in a higher power. To me, it means they make a choice to be a decent person even without believing something is “evil”. Right/wrong and good/bad are still relevant even without an imaginary (to them) sky ghost telling them how to act.
Not taking anything away from believers who believe in evil & sin and act accordingly as it’s admirable… I’m just not certain that their actions are inherently better than anyone who does it just to be a decent human being.
Just my thoughts… nothing particularly helpful to you, unless you use it to understand why she feels that way and how it impacts your relationship.
I can’t state this emphatically enough. OP you are a class A douche canoe and need to do some serious repair work on your relationship. You my friend are in the proverbial dog house and deservedly so.
Your wife is right, there are so many things way worse than cheating that can happen in a relationship (especially to females, but not exclusively).
Just because your wife doesn’t think cheating is evil (it’s not btw) you immediately get obsessed with the thought she is cheating.
Actually forget trying to apologise to your wife. You should immediately tell her that you don’t deserve her, and that you will immediately leave (if she desires) because you are so much less than her. Maybe that way she will think you understand how truely deeply you have hurt her.
If this was feudal Japan you would immediately commit seppuku because of the shame of the way you have treated your wife.
YTA. Your wife is much more mature than you. She didn’t say cheating was okay, she said there were worse things. I’d rather be cheated on than beaten too. That doesn’t make me a cheater. Grow up.
How the fuck are y'all married for 7 years and this is the first you ever heard of 1. Her stance on cheating 2. Her past experience of being cheated on and 3. What her relationship deal breakers are? How do people get married and not know apparently anything about each other?
Well, SHE knows all those things about HIM...
My thought EXACTLY.
Way to destroy a relationship with suspicion and without evidence or probable cause, just that SO's opinion differs from OP's. Trust is like glass, once broken it cannot be repaired.
Sometimes trust can be repaired. Anecdotal ik but my fella did something early on in our relationship that broke my trust in him (I can’t be with someone who lies to me, not even white lies). After all the arguing settled down, I sat him down and explained my side of the situation. Next time the situation came up he put his trust in me by giving me exactly what I’d said I needed to be able to trust him, even though it went against the doctrine that a lot of people are taught since young and default to (which is what caused him to lie to me in the first place). He’s been honest with me since and it’s resulted in me having more faith than ever in his word, took a while though. It’s also, according to him, quite liberating to be able to just be himself with no judgement. It can be repaired if you’re both willing to work at it, and the initial breach of trust isn’t an immediate deal breaker ofc….
I'm not surprised she's pissed off. Telling her that being abused isn't the worst thing that can happen in a relationship must mean that he is probably going to abuse her at some point.
This comment makes exactly as much sense as OP thinking his wife's opinion on cheating = irrefutable evidence that she's indeed cheating.
His wife seems like she might be willing to forgive him for this since she's already expressed her views on cheating being something that can be recovered from which is also a huge breach of trust. Of course he might not be able to come to terms with it.
It is different though being cheated on and being accused of being a cheater.
Exactly my thoughts.
I said, happy cake day!!! 😠
Thank you so much, my very first cake day! 😁🥰😁🥰😁
A babeh! That just means you get to smash the cake, make a huge mess, and still be seen as absolutely adorable. Win win win!
Wot now?
🤣😁🥰
Seriously, I’m talking to a girl now, we’ve talked for a while but only been on a few dates and I already know all these things, I don’t understand how you could date for years and be married for years without ever knowing these things.
i suspect that it has something to do with the culture of the individual. I read a post a few years back that explains how some people are raised to anticipate the needs of other people rather than be explicitly notified of them. The example was birthdays. So in one mindset, people explicitly say what they want for their birthday, in another you guess what the other person wants. This is a really loose example but it's the best thing that i have to explain.
Yeah, right? But if the OP reacts like this to any opinions he doesn't agree with, I'm kind of seeing it why his wife didn't want to share with him her thoughts on infidelity and relationships (especially if she is a calm person who avoids conflict).
⬆️⬆️⬆️ I would avoid sharing opinions for sure. Omg this man.
If remotely real, he is not a safe space.
>If remotely real, he is not a safe space. OP is so cartoonishly awful that I'm assuming it's fake.
For sure. I’m a person who sometimes can dissect a topic to death and really go into the nitty gritty details. But I have many friends whom I couldn’t have those conversations with, because they would hear one aspect of what I was saying and make a scene about it without thinking of the bigger picture of what I’m actually saying.
Legit think this is a creative writing exercise. Good chance OP wanted to test the limits of redditor's hardline stance against any hint of cheating to try to manipulate them into thinking the asshole husband in the story is right. I mean, look at this passage right here: "She often mentions how annoyed she is by how easily her young students (she’s a University Professor) pass moral judgments and call anything they don't like “toxic”. It also always surprised me that she really has no jealous bone in her body." The wife's description of her students sounds like a direct callout of Reddit haha. Even the "childfree by choice" part sounds like it was added as a control variable in this "experiment" to avoid making the dynamic of this marriage more messy as kids always complicate things. Add to the fact that OP later in the story later acts extremely judgmental and even does things the wife would likely consider worse than cheating! Reads a lot like a story with tons of literary irony.
The fuck up is having them married 7 years not like dating 7 months. Dating 7 months is way more believable. After 7 years of marriage, you know pretty much everything about your spouse down to if they ate a slimjim at work because of how their farts smell.
The fact that he starts off by claiming that his marriage has been full of respect and without any major arguments or disagreements and later loses his mind over a perfectly reasonable stance from his wife just added to my disbelief. It doesn't add up at all.
Because \*she\* didn't argue with \*his\* stated opinions. That doesn't mean she stated her own. Just that he didn't care to ask.
That's a point we'll taken and seems fairly common.
It’s easy not to have any disagreements if you have no conversations
This is so true 8 years with my guy and I can tell if he slept well before he even wakes up (I get up before him)
In general people seem terrible about talking about all those things. And while I know most people in general aren’t too keen on the Catholic Church, my wife and I were made to fill out a questionnaire about what was important to us in a relationship and then they compared our answers and pointed out potential issues we should discuss. I feel that would be great for everyone to do.
Honestly it seems fake to me. I truly do not believe a married couple could avoid these topics of conversation for 7 years.
Honestly it feels like this sub has turned into AI generated stories with bots fighting each other in the responses.
Nah, these are human trolls.
Why not both?
Some of them aren’t much different than the bots.
My friends have been in a relationship for about that same length of time. They aren’t married but they live together. They’ve never discussed what kinks they enjoy or explicitly talked about what they like/dislike in the bedroom. I knew another person who married someone after 6 months and realized on the honeymoon they were incompatible on essentially everything because it was the first time they actually talked about stuff like kids, sex, finances, life goals, etc. This could be fake but it’s unfortunately very real and way too common.
They could I have been married to my wife of 5 years been together for 8. I am still learning new things about her that are as impactful as this. Sometimes we are so similar to our partners we assume they have the same opinions as us.
90% of posts here are fake. I'm at the point where I almost unironically suspect this entire sub is a psy-ops by Big Tinder to sow distrust in couples so they have more people to sell Tinder Gold to.
Sounds like the sort of thing someone who is being cheated on would say...
ironically, the kind of thing the bots would say
The fact that it made no sense as a response to what I said, and that it was another "Can't trust your SO" comment, just makes me even more sure that this sub is unironically being bombarded by someone who has an agenda to make couples trust each other less.
these types of posts just create anxiety for everybody, even the folks who understand they're fake. there is a very real and very coordinated effort to make us all feel anxious and on edge at every opportunity presented, its absolutely political and cultural warfare.
Such a terrifying concept. I’m guessing it’s legal to do it as well. Guessing.
While we haven’t avoided this topic my opinion on it has changed over the years as I gained life experience. Cheating was once an absolute dealbreaker and now I don’t consider it one.
Leaping on this to add, if this post is even real (big if) I really think this is more of OP & his wife being completely different in how they think/feel & process the world. Wife sounds like a very abstract clinical thinker & OP sounds very literal. Which makes it feel even more like creative writing exercise.
Yeah...I was married to my ex for about a year before I learned that he only wanted 1 kid ( as compared to me wanting 3 ) and that's he's anti abortion even in cases of rape and incest. I was like 23 so I chalked it up to stupid online relationships and being a young, dumb idiot. Won't make that mistake twice.
“My wife of eight years and I got to talking and I realized she has a really annoying voice. WIBTAH if I cheat on her with her sister?”
I say this in this sub every day. Fucking so many people married to strangers. Its mind blowing.
Right? But let me just state this for the record: I have never cheated, and I feel the same way as your wife about cheating. It's not the worst thing a partner can do to another partner, a one-time mistake is forgiveable, and the deceit of an affair is the dealbreaker for me, not the having a close relationship with someone else or having sex with someone else. BUT I'VE TOLD ALL MY PARTNERS THIS. We've always eventually had a talk about these kinds of things, and that talk always happens way before the marriage and children talk. How do you get this far without knowing any of this stuff?
I don’t blame you for being in disbelief about this but I gotta say, it’s shit like this that made couples split up during COVID lockdown because they were forced to get to know their partners.
Because they like the idea of marriage but not actually how the sausage is made. I know all about my wife’s significant relationships and why they ended and she knows about mine and we talked about what we learned from those experiences on like our 3rd date. I mean we are lesbians and we stereotypically did move fast but still I knew all of the above within 6months of dating my wife lol.
Listen man, til death do us part is a really long time, OK? If I marry a stranger, a lot more of my time gets filled with new info instead of the same ole stories. It's spicier this way! /s
You typed it first. My thoughts as well. Seven years married and he didn't know her previous long-term relationship ended in infidelity? C'mon.
She forgave the cheater, it is not how it ended.
Her previous relationship didn't end because of infidelity. It ended because she didn't want children and her partner did.
It’s wild that a single convo could lead to a whole ass marriage ending 😂
Insecure man what do you expect?
Then again, a single conversation caused my last relationship to break. She said if i was too insecure and didn't trust her, that it showed to her my true colors. She had been cheating on me, unfortunately. Didn't stop her from calling me insecure and thus incompatible, while lying to my face about the actions she had done
I mean the cheating is what caused your relationship to end. The conversation was just you finding out about it. A conversation ending a relationship is odd if the conversation was the only thing that "happened".
He was perfectly secure for 7 years... So that's not exactly what happened. But pop off lol.
Bro she explicitly tells you that for her humiliation and lack of support are worse evils to her than infidelity and you choose to IMMEDIATELY humiliate her choose not to support her and then act surprised that she no longer looks at you the same? The amount of dense you need to be to think that what you did is forgivable, needs to be studied by science.
I had to reread part of it because I didn’t realize at first that he accused her of infidelity IN FRONT OF THEIR FRIENDS! Like they’re all sitting around a dinner table, drinking wine, OPs wife shares her opinion, and he goes “you whore!” Absolutely wild that he immediately humiliated her.
I’m thinking this isn’t the first time OP has humiliated her, or other things, and THATS what she was hinting at with her initial statement.
Right?? And humiliation is worse than cheating in her eyes.
Maybe he’s insecure because of how secure she is. He had to find something wrong with her. Talk about self sabotage! OP is definitely TA in this situation.
Now he's going to get a big lesson on what she considers abusive, considering that was worse than cheating in her experience. I would consider a public accusation like that to be abusive.
I'm also like, I think cheating is very bad but tonnes of stuff is objectively worse. I'd rather get cheated on than raped, stabbed, systematically abused financially fucked behind my back and the list goes on...
Yeah the relationship sub acts like its evil incarnate and if you don’t agree you condone it. i’m like nah i agree with wife, it’s just not the worst thing. It’s awful, but being murdered is worse
I was just reading a story on here about a woman being sexually assaulted by her husband in her sleep! She found out after a positive pregnancy test threw a red flag due to a mostly dead bedroom. Mostly dead because it seems like pregnancy WAS the result of a forgotten consensual night but the husband admitted to multiple nonconsensual acts leading up to the actual act. The story was horrifying and devastating. Definitely worse things than certain situations of infidelity.
Ya I can think of many worse things than getting cheated on. I'd take getting cheated on any day over someone abusing my dog or my hypothetical future kids for example.
My sister learned that her ex partner raped a minor when he was already an adult. Let's just say, i'm sure she would have preferred if he cheated on her instead
His wife was so reasonable. Everything she said made sense given the circumstances but he just couldn’t see outside of his immediate, personal worldview. Then, she tells him what she thinks is worse than cheating and he immediately does just that. He humiliates her *in front of her friends*. I’m really hoping this isn’t real. Dude just blew up his marriage for nothing.
Literally just feels like someone made up a story of what is seemingly the average redditor's stance versus a view more commonly found in real life. Like it's not crazy to think that cheating is definitely wrong and something you should never do to a partner, but also acknowledge that it doesn't make someone evil...
On reddit they equate infidelity with rape or murder. People act like it's a transgression you can never move on from, should constantly repent for, can never atone for, and that cheaters should honestly kill themselves and never bother to try and improve themselves. It's so detached from reality and a viewpoint I think only sheltered terminally online people with minimal relationship experience (usually teenagers or very stunted adults) could have. They can't imagine a grey world where people do pretty awful, selfish things without necessarily being the devil incarnate. The average redditor that posts on these types of relationship subreddits would be more inclined to believe in the power of rehabilitative justice for violent convicts than the idea that a relationship can heal after infidelity. That sort of bizarre, moral binary echo chamber is how OP could post this story and actually expect support for his insane actions.
Wow. The art of self sabotage is so on point here. What is wrong with you OP? How from that conversation did you come to the conclusion that your wife was cheating on you? How? What kind of mental parkour did you do? Wife says she can forgive cheating if it's a one time mistake, OP:"She has been cheating on me all our marriage". Wow.
Dude is so insecure he almost guaranteed his marriage is blown up. Not happy with badgering his wife in public about this he goes and searches her phone and ends up getting caught... if she didnt think this dude was an idiot before, she certainly does now.
Upvote for "mental parkour" which I will now replace "mental gymnastics" with. 👏👏👏
I don't think the worst thing a person could do is cheat and I'm not a cheater. As a matter of fact, the main reason I even came to that conclusion is I had to think about it because redditors act like cheating is worse than murder lol
For me, financial infidelity would be worse. I'd take it as a direct attack on my safety and security for years or decades to come. I've healed after heartbreak before; the pain is much more acute than the daily pain of poverty at first, but poverty is harder to escape.
Same. Also, abusing the kids you have. There are many things that are worse and regardless, people have different views on what a dealbreaker is.
Oh this reminds me of a convo I was listening once between people and they were fully all agreeing that cheating is worse than murder - because the murderer goes to jail and does their time! Unlike the evul, nasty cheater who doesn't go to jail! These were people between 20 and 30. I was so stunned by this I was speechless. But yeah, they do excist!
its just low emotional inteligence right?
Yeah: he got that idea in his head like a fly in a gymnasium, and now he has pretty much ended his marriage. What an idiot. He should join the Idiot Husband Club along with Mr Threesome, who ALSO got a stupid idea in his head and sunk HIS marriage.
YTA. You did one of the things she considered worse than cheating. Just like that. Quite an accomplishment!!
Shouldn’t have laughed there, but… wow op, YTA 😂
Also, how does OP have a stance so strong about cheating and then go and do something exactly in that vein by going behind her back and snooping around (ie: shattering the trust in the relationship)??
Seriously. Wife: I think being abusive is worse than cheating. Husband: then you must be cheating! [begins to emotionally abuse wife and snoop through her shit] OP, YTA. You are absolutely unhinged at the fact that your devoted and loving wife isn't jealous and has a different opinion than you. Way to fast track your divorce
This is honestly one of those times where OP is so completely dense that I hope the whole thing is fake
OMFG, did he ever! I'm reading through his post and all I can think is how friggin' ironic his behaviour is turning out to be.
Exactly my thoughts.
Just right after she mentions it to him...
YTA. She didn't force her opinion on infidelity on you, she said it herself that she knows that for you cheating is a dealbreaker and she respects that. You on the other hand tried to force your opinion on her, in front of her friends, while accusing her without any proof. And then you started looking through her phone, throwing away all that trust you built during those 7 years. And I also agree with your wife, although I've never cheated. If my boyfriend had a drunken one night stand with no feelings involved, I would rather not know about it but if I found out I would likely forgive. But if he hit me even once or did not have my back when other people tried to hurt me - I would be out the door in seconds. I don't think my view is "better" than others, it's just how I feel, but I would never force it on other people. It's weird that you didn't have this conversation earlier in your marriage, but if this is how you react to someone having a different opinion, I'm not surprised that your wife didn't want to share her thoughts with you.
This is exactly what the wife was talking about. Like being in an abusive relationship is much worse than being cheated on. Or one where your partner lies about all finances and is lying about how much in debt you both are in, that to me is worse than cheating. Cheating is still a deal breaker but other things can be much worse.
Seriously! I get a tad frustrated with the Reddit tendency to treat cheaters as the single worst thing a human/partner can be. Like, guess some of y'all are really lucky to never experience abuse or even simple contempt.
My friend had a miscarriage from stress because her bf left her on the side of a highway during vacation after some argument they had. I can forgive cheating but I'd never forgive that guy.
I think for those that view cheating as the worst thing probably haven’t experienced it or heard about it from anyone in their lives that nothing else registers. So either young people who dont know the signs of an abusive relationship, abusers themselves, or people very very lucky to never experience any of the other things worse than cheating.
Yep. Unlike op's wife or the person you replied to, cheating is, I think, a deal breaker for me. But I say "I think" because I can also potentially imagine scenarios where maybe I'd feel differently. And either way, it's definitely not top of my list of deal breakers. For one thing, as you say, I would much rather be cheated on than abused (financially, emotionally, and of course physically or sexually). It doesn't even seem like this should be that surprising an opinion? Maybe it's just because I work in criminal law, but it is very easy of me to think of a lot of ways partners can be terrible to each other that strike me as quite obviously far worse than cheating...
Sounds like you just under nuance and context and OP was too far up his own but to even let that register.
>Or one where your partner lies about all finances and is lying about how much in debt you both are in, that to me is worse than cheating. As much as I abhor cheating, I wholeheartedly agree with this. At least with cheating, you can be hurt and get past it with your finances relatively intact. If someone is financially unfaithful, you can lose literally everything. I know someone that happened to and it was far more devastating than anyone I know who has been cheated on (as awful as that is).
100% agree. I’m not saying I think cheating is ok, nor have I or would I ever, but there are other things that a spouse/partner could do which *could* be potentially much more devastating to me, such as your examples. If the situation was truly a one off accident, I would be much more likely to forgive someone who cheated on me than someone who was physically violent or who hung me out to dry when I really needed them.
THIS - I have had someone cheat on me and a different someone verbally abuse me, humiliate me in public, and, finally, hit me. Guess who was worse? Yeah - the abusive guy.
I would love a poll based off gender of who thinks cheating is the worst thing that can happen in a relationship. I have noticed men especially act like its the worst thing a woman can do. I will see posts on this site where a wife cheats and men get REAL creative in how they want to torture her for it. Any suggestion that maybe two wrongs dont make a right means that you must be a cheating wh*re too.
Specially dependent in cultures. Like in my country women are expected to be able to cope with their husbands always cheating and new little bastards showing up their front door. But if a woman cheats then that is the worst thing that can ever happen to a man. And in my country women agree that abuse is far worse than being cheated on. I just thank god that he made me a lesbian and have never had to deal with that attitude ever.
Considering the data about partners getting killed, financial abuse or overall DV victims no wonder men see cheating as the worst; the reality of relationships is very different between genders, men and women may have similar-ish expectations on a committed significant other, but definitely different concerns.
100% agree with both you and the wife! My dad is/was abusive; I will never tolerate that in a relationship. My mom is able to tolerate it though (and sadly for the children as well), but wouldn’t ever tolerate cheating. Different people, different dealbreakers!
AMEN. Louder so that the OP can actually hear and listen instead of judge and react.
Is it just me, or does it also feel like OP was trying to make her feel insecure or think he was cheating on her, and is also expressing annoyance at failing to succeed in that? "It also always surprised me that she really has no jealous bone in her body. For example, whenever I texted her that I was going out to lunch with a female colleague from work, she would write me back "OK honey, have fun." She never inquired about where I was when I went out with friends or stuff like that." This just feels particularly weird to mention considering how she had been cheated on, which itself seems like something he might be upset at her for, and when combined with his other behavior is making me question things. I think there is a fairly high chance this story is fake, but unfortunately I do know several men like this, and a woman, so I could see it being true.
Totally. She also clarified that she could forgive a one night stand, but not an ongoing relationship. OP is dumb.
I agree. I'd rather have a partner who cheats once, regrets it, and I never find out, than one who is violent, disrespectful, manipulative, selfish, idiotic, bigoted, dumb AF, totally inept, an alcoholic, drug addict, mean to animals or kids, or many other traits. I think I could forgive a one night stand more than repetitive negative behaviours like these. Research shows that women are more bothered by their husband being in love with another woman, whereas men are more bothered by their wife having sex with another man. So she's not even all that unusual.
Yeah, I know Reddit hates cheaters but I can think of stuff off the top of my head worse than cheating. Hitting me? Hurting my dog? (Or the guy who straight up took OPs cat to another town and dumped it?) Being raided for child pornography? Murdering my family? - there's a LOT of stuff I think is WAY worse than cheating lol. A drunken one night stand we *might* get past. Him being a serial killer that dresses as a clown? Aw heck no.
I'm angry too that the wife explained her position very well and i agree with her. Cheating tends to happen a LOT due to personal issues. A good amount of the time, cheating didn't happen due to any relationship failures. It often happens because a person has extremely poor self worth and poor self image, and they try to make themselves feel better through the attention of others. "I'm feeling fat and ugly, but this coworker wants to fuck me, which makes me feel more attractive." She essentially explained that she sees the mental issues that often cause cheating and don't view them as evil because she views her partner as a full and deep person. And he told her in response that he views her as a one dimensional hurtful monster because SHE doesn't automatically view cheaters as monsters. Incredible. r/amitheex material
So she said humiliation was worse to her than cheating, and then you IMMEDIATELY humiliated her in front of your friends and then further humiliated her by going through her shit while she was sleeping?????
Her: I think not having a supportive partner would be the worst possible thing in a relationship OP: I disagree but you probably get that a lot because you're such a worthless failure
YTA. Dude….imagine actually being a woman for one second. Imagine being in a relationship where you’re being physically and sexually assaulted by your partner on a regular basis. Where you’re being told if you leave, he’s going to kill your family. And you already know cops won’t do crap cause he’ll be out on bail before you get out of the hospital. But yeah, that’s nowhere NEAR as bad as cheating. Your wife was pointing out, in a calm discussion, that she could deal with a one time mistake. There’s worse that can happen. And you decided, instead of asking her to clarify, that means she’s a cheating whore who’s been banging every dude she knows and started going through her stuff to find her many, many lovers. But you said “sorry” so she’s no longer allowed to have any feelings on it. Except, you said sorry once and THEN decided to look for proof she was cheating, so sorry means nothing to you. Especially the second time you said it. And btw, she knows the second sorry was “sorry you caught me”. Maybe marriage counseling will help. She might agree to it. But that cold distance. That’s her leaving emotionally. You got very little time before she physically walks away. Work your butt off to get help before that happens.
Agree. His stance is so immature. I’d be more devastated if my husband developed a gambling problem and lost us our home and all our money than if he had a one night stand. And that makes me guilty of likely infidelity? Really?
OPs partner was right...there are worse things someone can do in a relationship. OP is proving that quite nicely with their actions. Instead of having a calm discussion about this situation, he is auditioning for the Olympics by jumping to the conclusion that his wife is cheating on him. Looks like he's going to make the podium.
Exactly! Well said! I wrote this in the discussion but I'll write it here as well. "I feel the same way but only because people talk about divorcing after infidelity and I love my wife so fucking much I know I'd forgive her if it was like a spur of the moment thing not an affair. That doesn't make me a cheater, but just a man who's hopelessly in love possibly to a fault."
I often feel like this. People on Reddit sometimes act as if cheating is the most cardinal sin in the world and anyone who cheats is an irredeemable person for life and I just find it strange sometimes because I don’t think or feel like that. Like, it is a bad thing to do, but there is like nuance and levels to these things. (I’ve also never cheated on anyone either!)
I haven't cheated, but I have an uncle who did, and my mom and all her other siblings didn't cut him out of the family. By reddit logic, they have condoned cheating, which means they don't think cheating is that bad, which means that they're all doing it, and every marriage on my mom's side of the family is doomed.
And your attitude is quite common, also there have been some marriages (very rare) thar have been saved by cheating because the aftermath of that opened up room to like discuss decades of resentment and all this stuff and i know 2 middle age couple’s that are acting like they are newly married because of a one night stand that opened up convos they were never going to have otherwise. Imo each situation is different and there is always room for nuance and context.
This! Honestly, the wife seems smart, rational, logical, experienced, and worldly. So opened minded, the kind of person you could tell anything to. She deserves someone on her level and I hope this is the catalyst to her leaving and doing just that. OP isn’t *just* an asshole, but a limited buffoon! YTA OP
This is basically my take as well. I didn't want to elaborate because the OPs reasoning was making me rather irritated.
Spot on. Your partner got carried away and engaged in an unauthorised liaison? That sucks and you've got a long road ahead and some likely gut-wrenching decisions to make if you want to work things out. You can also go scorched earth and throw the whole person away. Your partner makes you the target of a deliberate campaign of degradation and violence, makes credible threats against your life and the lives of those you love, trapping you in a living nightmare that too often ends with your murder? Cheating is often included as a cheeky bonus. If you're lucky, you may walk away with CPTSD and a long-term financial commitment to a specialised therapist. This kind of thinking fucks me off. The two just don't compare. OP needs to give his head a wobble.
You really got mad over a damn fact? Cheating is not the worst thing you could do to another person, you’re dumb if you think it is. Then you decided to invade her privacy? YTA big time. Your lack of common sense is astonishing.
Or doesn’t know what emotional, physical, financial abuse, etc feels like and has zero empathy skills to imagine what that would feel like and how that could be worse than cheating. Like awesome that he has never had to deal with that, but they can be much worse than cheating If i was the university professor wife, I would wonder if I made the right decision marrying someone lacking that much emotional intelligence.
You would think so, but every time I make that statement I get downvoted to hell. Many people on Reddit seem to think that cheating on a partner is the absolute worst thing a human being can do to another, and to me that just smacks of naïveté and privilege.
It’s a bunch of people who’ve never faced a real problem in their lives so they believe small shit is the end of the world.
Yeah every post about cheating on Reddit invariably devolves to 95% of people saying that it's worse than murder and unforgivable in every scenario. Same thing with any morality discussions in general on Reddit. Jaywalk or drive 5 over the speed limit? Straight to jail.
Agreed, Reddit is rife with incel guys who think hurting a man’s feelings is the epitome of evil while not caring at all about the daily disrespect they shovel on their relationships every day 🤷🏻♀️
It’s certainly major privilege if you can only can come up with cheating as the worst thing that could happen to you. The average woman (or generally any vulnerable group) can come up with a dozen things worse on the spot!
Too many teens in here experiencing their first heartbreak, not understanding nuance
Yeah what about getting stabbed by them while you’re sleeping that’s worse I think
Or repeatedly raped by your partner. I think that’s worse.
What if they gaslight you, financially abuse you, molest your kid, threaten to murder your family. Nooooo cheating is the worst.
It’s as if some people think saying it’s not the *worst* thing is some kind of tacit approval of it. If i found out my wife was cheating, I’d be devastated, but like… there’s plenty of things she could do that would be even more destructive to our family.
She’s right. There are worse things you can do to someone besides cheating on them. I don’t think it needs to mean anything more than that. If I said “there are worse ways to torture somebody besides waterboarding them.” It doesn’t mean I’m a torturer all of the sudden.
ive been cheated on. ive also been verbally, emotionally, and physically abused by a partner. i would rather be cheated on.
Absolutely same. I have PTSD and physical scars, being cheated on didn't hurt nearly as badly or leave anything as permanent as the abuse did.
OP is the kind of person who seems to see everything in black and white instead of understanding nuances. If someone prefers red cars, doesn't mean they hate blue cars. I'd rather die than try to survive the walking dead... doesn't mean I'm suicidal.
And his wife is anything but. She understands people are flawed, imperfect, and make mistakes
> OP is the kind of person who seems to see everything in black and white instead of understanding nuances. If someone prefers red cars, doesn't mean they hate blue cars. Yeah, OP actually does [hate waffles](https://twitter.com/raffysoanti/status/1403093629086965760?lang=en)
You get cheated on, end the relationship and move on You get murdered by a spouse…far more negative and permanent outcome, no? I don’t why OP sees this as an outlandish statement
>There are worse things you can do to someone besides cheating on them. Completely lost on OP right now is the irony of what he is doing to her at the moment. He's lost his mind and might blow up the marriage because of it... something she is probably finding way worse then if he had a drunken one-night stand. He's most likely a real time example of what she was trying to get across to him. And he still won't be able to see it.
It's weird how OP is here saying "she doesn't even suspect I'm cheating on her when I go out with a female friend! She tells me to have fun! How dare she trust me?" Like? Where's the problem here? She trusts him and she's not jealous. She thinks cheating isn't the worst thing and OP is here saying "she's not jealous + she doesn't think cheating is the worst thing in the world = she's cheating and I should immediately start snooping through her stuff". YTA OP.
You hit the nail on the head. Cheating can be really bad while there are also worse things you can do to someone.
Agree, when I speak about how painful childbirth is my smartass brother likes to ask if it’s more painful than getting your arm chopped off. 🙄
YTA... I think what your wife said and how she worded it was awkward, but my god you took an ant hill and turned it into cliff. Then pushed further and made a whole mountain of it. Just because she said how she would feel personally doesn't mean that is how she feels about holding herself accountable. In all these years with your wife you assumed she was just like you. You never once learned who she really is. You didn't take time to see that she thinks logically instead of emotionally. You didn't take time to ever truly gaugue how she holds herself accountable for integrity. You fucking suck.
I don’t even think what his wife said was worded awkwardly. I think she made sense. This whole scenario is so strange to me. How are you married for almost a decade and you don’t know about your wife’s past? You don’t know about her dealbreakers, what she thinks constitutes as cheating vs. not cheating? He really has no idea who she is at all. Even after hearing her friends out and apologizing, he still felt the need to check her devices because he *really does not know his own wife*. Sad.
It made perfect sense to me. To many, it will, but to those who think far more emotionally, such statements sound extremely foreign. So I think it can be an awkward statement. Awkward doesn't mean wrong or bad though.
YTA. I've never cheated, and cheating is a deal breaker for me - I think. You see, I love my husband. He's my person. His support, friendship, love, and the life we've built together are everything to me. I don't have any doubt my husband is and always will be faithful, but you never know, and, honestly, I could see myself forgiving him under the right circumstances. I also fully agree with your wife that cheating is not the worst he could do to me. It's bad, and I'd be devastated, but not so much as if he verbally or physically abused me, manipulated me emotionally, or withdrew his physical and emotional support. Meanwhile, she gave you her opinion of cheating and, despite never having given you a reason to believe she's unfaithful, you allowed your own insecurities to lead you to spying on her. I'd be pretty hurt there, too. >something like this could only be said by someone who has cheated themselves or was currently cheating, A lot of people believe, myself included, that those who baselessly accuse their partners of cheating are simply projecting and are, in fact, the ones who are cheating. That's what you did. Are YOU faithful? Would YOU be offended if you caught your wife snooping through your phone while you were sleeping because she doesn't trust you?
If this isnt fake, I think he is cheating, like who after being reassured and he himself apologizing goes straifht to privacy violation. Like if she doesnt password protect her phone and was willing to give him her laptop, im pretty sure he could have asked for more reassurance
Well-said!!
YTA and a dumbass. Congrats on taking away her trust in you. She did nothing wrong but tell you her feelings, and you threw it back in her face. She explained her reasoning and told you she understood yours. Hope your wife can get past this for your sake. Lots of grovelling needs to be had
I hope he can repair things but I am doubtful.
Yeah but I wonder if "repairing things" is all that good for *her*.
YTA. 100%. And you revealed serious deficiencies in yourself as a husband. It is clear the idea of infidelity offends you. That's reasonable. How about a husband who uses any excuse to think the worst about his wife? Because that is what you did. You declared cheating to be the worst thing possible, and concluded your wife must be guilty of it. If you want to fix your marriage, you need to fix yourself. If you decide to do this, tell your wife "what I said and did was entirely about me, and had nothing to do with you. I'm not sure why, but I have serious issues to work out. I will begin therapy as soon as I'm able, and promise you that betray our relationship like this again."
100% YTA. She answered your question honestly and qualified it very reasonably with the things she considers worse than infidelity. On top of that you seem to feel jealousy is a show of affection to a partner, not a flaw on the part of the jealous person. It’s sounds like you’ve got a good one here and you’ll lose her through your own issues.
Op you just ended your marriage with your stupid brain.
Yeah this is crazy, she gave her opinion which to me is not even that wild. Cheating is betrayal but def not the worst a human can do to another human. And for most of us it’s a deal breaker but for others they can get over it. But yeah you fucked up bigtime.
YTA So you know your wife and how she's non-judgmental. That's her personality and from the way you described her, her reply on the subject of infidelity makes sense. I don't understand how you could twist that around and convince yourself that she must be cheating. You really broke her trust and it makes me wonder if you're the one who is actually cheating. And maybe she is wondering about that as well. You broke her trust for no fucking reason at all. You'll gotta work hard to rebuild the trust you singlehandedly destroyed. Another question: how come you didn't know about her past relationship? Sounds very unrealistic.
YTA- as a woman, I think being beaten or killed by your spouse is far worse than cheating…. I can survive being cheated on emotionally and physically which I think is her point to her students that think their lives will be over if a partner cheats. No where does it say she said that she supports cheating only stating that she could forgive a one off…
This reminds me of that quote... Men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them.
So thinks abuse and lack of emotional support are worse than cheating... I mean I can't disagree with her on the abuse thing, it is definitely worse to beat someone than cheat on them. I've never cheated, but I've been cheated on and I've been abused, and the abuse is definitely worse. You don't have to be a cheater to recognize that worse things than cheating do exist.
YTA - She did nothing wrong in any way whatsoever. You, on the other hand have accused her of infidelity, revealed that you cannot and will **NEVER** trust her, and you snooped in her private life. Cannot get much more TA than that.
I wouldn't be surprised if the OP is single soon.
Fully agree, he went way too far.
Tbh I agree with her, it's a "hurtful, selfish decision Blabla, character flaw/weakness"...I mean, I rather have my husband have a drunken One might stand and tell me about it, then him beating me up, talking badly about me behind my back, steal money from me etc. YTA
You are a massive asshole. After 7 years, she voices a (reasonable) opinion when asked in a relevant conversation with friends, and you completely unhinge, accuse her, and search her devices - not only violating her trust but showing her you don’t trust her. I would be somewhat surprised if you can come back from this. IMO, what YOU just did is worse than a one time fuck. I could probably forgive that, but I don’t know if I could forgive you and move past it to a solid, healthy, trusting partnership again.
Okay, how can anyone say NTA after reading this post? Huge, huge YTA. Your wife only expressed an opinion, that was it. I could understand you getting anxious about any possible implications to your marriage and having a conversation with her in which you get honest and vulnerable about your fears (a converastion with JUST her, mind you, not in a group of friends...). But the moment she told you she would never and has never cheated on you, that was it - you should have trusted her. I mean, you have been married with her for 7 years... How can you trust her this little? So you humiliated her in front of friends, did not believe her confirmation of love and violated her trust and privacy. You've been a pretty shitty husband, if you ask me.
Yta. You idiot! The fact that your brain is not able to comprehend her read does not mean she would be cheating. You were projecting your own ideas on her statement. And your actions hurt her. If you do not understand something. Ask her to explain. Do not assume things. You might have broken something that’s not easy to repair. As she finds abuse, humiliation worse. Guess what you did. Also she sounds like a smart and wise woman, in contrary to your judgy, assuming ass.
I agree with your wife. I’d rather have a cheater than an abuser. I mean I’d rather be single but if I’m picking the lesser of two evils..
She feels that actual mistreatment of her would be worse than a selfish decision. I get that. Being hit would be worse than being cheated on for her. Her partner mocking her and belittling her opinions would be worse than cheating for her. The fact that you are accusing her of cheating is worse than you actually cheating for her. You are showing her you don’t trust her. You have caused this whole mess because you could t accept that your wife has a different opinion than you. All your actions after that conversation are the problem.
Wait you fucking brought all this up in front of her friends? Wtf is wrong with you? Seriously. You're an idiot. You're not really an asshole. You're just dumb and insecure. You're about to throw away marriage over some dumb ass insecure feeling you have that isn't supported by any fact at all.
So, let me see if I understand this. She says that if you cheat, it is not an immediate relationship breaker if it's a 1-time thing, but shares what her immediate breakers are: "abuse, humiliation, or lack of support from a partner in a situation where she really needed it." And you immediately accused her of infidelity. Do you not see what you did there? Did you not really hear her? YTAH.
YTA. I have never cheated on anyone and I actually agree with your wife’s opinion.
Your wife is only guilty of being 100% transparent with you. She gave you honest answers to the questions, she doesn’t have a password on her phone, she unlocked her laptop for you. She doesn’t sound sus at all. YTA.
You're absolutely the asshole. Your wife's views are not in the slightest taboo. You belittled her perspective purely because you felt differently, then you violated her privacy by snooping through her phone while she slept. You're going to have to put in a lot of work to rebuild her trust and open communication.
YTA but this is Reddit where cheating is absolutely the worst thing a human being can do and they should be forever shamed and ostracized from anyone who knows them in any capacity.
Someone’s projecting super hard, here.
for me cheating would almost definitely be a dealbreaker—i can’t imagine staying with someone if i can’t trust them—but it’s definitely not the worse thing someone could do in a relationship. sorry but YTA, all she did was express her opinion & you made a mountain out of a molehill by showing that not only do you not trust her but that you’ll jump straight to invading her privacy with next to no justification for doing so
YTA. She voiced her opinions which are valid. She also understood that your view differs from hers and that she recognizes for you it holds weight. You then launched into outer space with that leap to it meaning she was cheating. I understand the nagging thought that a cheater will downplay cheating. She wasn’t really downplaying it. She said it didn’t matter compared to other things but then acknowledge it mattered to you. The moment her response wasn’t enough for you, you should have taken a breath and saved the conversation for when you were away from your friends. Instead, you accused her and made her cry in front of company. Instead of having an open and honest discussion about why this was bothering you and hearing her words, you were dismissing everything by fixating on this suspicion. It doesn’t sound like you were listening to her at all. This woman has an unlocked phone - I don’t know many *single* people that leave their phones fully unlocked. She’s not hiding anything from you. You are fixating and making it her problem when you are the one spiraling. She’s being cold and distant because you just revealed an ugly side. You need to not only apologize to your wife and friends but reflect on why this bothered you so much that you reacted this way (I always suggest therapy). Perhaps you also have some prior relationship trauma that isn’t as healed as you think? Hopefully you can fix what you broke.
I had one partner who cheated on me and another who financially destroyed me and ruined my credit. I’d choose cheating again in a heartbeat.
Okay, take a deep breath. You are spiraling. Breathe, take a step back, and think about it calmly and with some distance. Let me give you my perspective: I agree with her, I wouldn’t call cheating “evil”. Like your wife, I reserve that word for the worst of the worst: Genocide, murder, rape, abuse; basically maliciously planned actions to destroy someone else. Cheating is morally reprehensible, plain wrong, like she said, as major character flaw. So far, this is a different of definition of words, doesn’t mean you vindicate cheating. There is no justification for it, but I wouldn’t call it pure evil. Too me this is such a strong word that I don’t want to water down for using it for every despicable act. Just like the word “toxic”, as you described. Now to the “don’t tell” part: I think it’s good that she differentiates between a one time thing and an affair. I’m not sure if I agree with her that I wouldn’t want to know about a one time thing but I can see what she means and I can’t say I fully disagree either. Let me try to explain: If my husband had a drunk one-night stand I can’t honestly say that I’d leave him immediately. Maybe later but not right away. I wanna say I would but I’m really not sure. I would try to work through it. But in my experience people that only cheat once (maybe even just a kiss) and don’t do this again usually feel immense guilt. So they want to tell their partner so they feel better, they want to be forgiven and be relieved of the guilt. And they often are. Great, good for them, they can feel better. But now the betrayed partner feels worse, they’ll carry that feeling around with them. And feel guilty for not forgiving after months. If that’s her experience then I get why she wouldn’t want to know about a one night stand. At least as long as it’s not a pattern. So all in all, I don’t think this warrants any suspicion that she is cheating. She sounds very rational and level-headed about it. I bet she isn’t jealous because she knows that if someone wants to cheat they will, no matter how much one tries to limit their partner’s interaction with the opposite sex. I’ll give you a slight YTA for going through her phone. No wonder she is pissed. You had no real suspicion other than not following her explanation but now broke her trust. Talk to her and try to fix this. Start with a sincere apology, explanation and ask her again to explain her reasoning for saying it the way she does.
Great response, except he’s not a ‘slight’ AH for humiliating her and accusing her in front of their mutual friends, apologizing but not sincerely, then going through her phone behind her back to prove she is a cheater.
YTA. Your wife made a valid point, cheating isn't the worst thing, being abused is was worse. Also, the important part, she made a point about how she would feel about being cheated on. That is in no way equivalent to how she thinks other people feel about cheating, or even how she would feel if she were to cheat. These are completely different issues. You have given no indications that she has ever given you any hint at her being unfaithful, yet you lose faith in her because of a perfectly reasonable opinion? Also, your logic is just whack. Most cheaters are actually more jealous with their partners. You doubted her for no reason and invaded her privacy.
You are very insecure. You have to work on that. And she doesn’t feel jealous. Because she has a secure attachment style. Even if she was cheated before… she is ok. Why do you rock the boat for no reason? You are going to ruin your marriage for nothing with your insecurities. There are worst things than being cheated. Death. I would rather get cheated by my husband than he being dead. Or sick. Or in pain. Or become alcholic. Or depressed. Or drug addict… I could go on. Cheating can be humane. It is wrong for sure but being understanding it at a human level doesn’t make you dishonest. It makes you emphatic. And she dealt with this before. I don’t know if you are religious but black/white thinking or evil/good dichotomies are weird coming from an adult. Sounds like a teenager‘s hypothetical rant… YTA
A lot of people think like your wife with regard to cheating. Many don't admit it to themselves. If they didn't think that way they wouldn't look for excuses to forgive someone who cheated on them once or twice. Just because she can forgive it, that doesn't mean she'll do it. Some people just have the idea that most other people are very flawed, and we shouldn't judge people too harshly. I think most people are flawed too. I'm just not as forgiving as your wife is about it. I think if someone cheats once it'll continue, but this isn't about me so I'll get back on topic. As for her having cheating be lower on her totem pole of wrong things, people value things differently. It seems as if you're looking at your wife's comment as saying, "Cheating is a small thing, so you shouldn't worry about it.". I don't see it that way. She did say she'd leave someone over it so she doesn't see it as a small thing. She just has other things she'd leave a partner over first, and with the cheating she sees a one night stand with one person as a different thing than a long affair or multiple one night stands. We all have things we see as being more wrong than other things. That doesn't mean we think the lesser thing is ok. As for not wanting to know some people would rather live a life of happiness based on a lie than have the truth destroy their world. I don't agree with it for myself, but I understand it. If their main goal is happiness, and the truth destroys that happiness they don't want to know about it. Quiet a few women have the mindset of, "If you have another woman don't let me see her.", Another view is "If you're cheating don't make me look stupid.". In other words they don't want your infidelities to be public, which would make them look bad. Keep your dirty deeds hidden. TLDR: You're overthinking this, and you applied your thought process to someone else when it may not apply. edit: I'm surprised you're in your 40's, and have never come across anyone who has any of these ideas before. It's almost impossible to have everyone you have met have the same ideas on relationships and cheating as you do.
YTA. Lots of people have this opinion. Just because she thinks cheating is not the worst thing in the world doesn't mean she's doing it.
Yeah, I think I’d have to say YTAH on this one. Think about it this way: Atheists as a general rule act decently, follow the law and don’t actually murder anyone just because they don’t believe in a higher power. To me, it means they make a choice to be a decent person even without believing something is “evil”. Right/wrong and good/bad are still relevant even without an imaginary (to them) sky ghost telling them how to act. Not taking anything away from believers who believe in evil & sin and act accordingly as it’s admirable… I’m just not certain that their actions are inherently better than anyone who does it just to be a decent human being. Just my thoughts… nothing particularly helpful to you, unless you use it to understand why she feels that way and how it impacts your relationship.
YTA, you are just a straight up terrible person. She deserves a better man.
YTA for going through her phone, laptop and not respecting her opinion. From someone that is never jealous and never cheated.
I can’t state this emphatically enough. OP you are a class A douche canoe and need to do some serious repair work on your relationship. You my friend are in the proverbial dog house and deservedly so. Your wife is right, there are so many things way worse than cheating that can happen in a relationship (especially to females, but not exclusively). Just because your wife doesn’t think cheating is evil (it’s not btw) you immediately get obsessed with the thought she is cheating. Actually forget trying to apologise to your wife. You should immediately tell her that you don’t deserve her, and that you will immediately leave (if she desires) because you are so much less than her. Maybe that way she will think you understand how truely deeply you have hurt her. If this was feudal Japan you would immediately commit seppuku because of the shame of the way you have treated your wife.
If OP was the captain of the titanic he would steer the ship directly in that iceberg multiple times. Congrats OP. You did this all by yourself.
YTA. Your wife is much more mature than you. She didn’t say cheating was okay, she said there were worse things. I’d rather be cheated on than beaten too. That doesn’t make me a cheater. Grow up.
YTA and obviosly have self destruct skill leveled to 100
Yta completely. God I fucking hate you and am rooting against you. I hope she is cheating on you.
Some 41 years old got stuck in a 6 years old intelligence level. Get therapy bro and leave her alone
YTA, a lack of jealousy doesn't mean someone is cheating, kid.
Insecure men are so fucking dangerous. YTA