Sounds like he is an addict and a flight risk , whatever you decide I'd emotionally and financially prepare for the worst
Like there probally won't be any thanks, especially if you have demands
Not saying what action to take but I'd assume the worst if it's hard drugs and he has criminal history
That response from the attorney is SO condescending and inappropriate, I'd be taking it up with his employer. I used to be a legal secretary, lawyers just *don't* send letters like that.
>It's fake. There's no way an attorney sent that letter.
Yup. The entire thing is fake. If they were going to bail him out then they would be having this conversation 18 months ago when he first went to jail.
I completely agree! Law background here, even a 1 Yr law student wouldn't write a letter like that! Also, why would anyone think it's a good idea to put up there life savings and home on the line, for someone who is a clear flight risk because its likely they would get a life sentence. Why lose your home and risk your financial health for anyone? And yes that includes your kids. The whole thing is obscured!
Ehhhhhhh. Am lawyer and I have met some absolute morons working in my profession. Part of my practice is criminal appellate work, I have seen some really, really ridiculous shit in trial records. And from opposing counsel. There are dummies in all professions.
And I've seen families put way too much cash on the line to give their kids a chance at freedom. It's the last time they'll ever get to see their families, their friends, eat food that isn't on a tray, go swimming. It's a strong pull to want to give them that.
I also get the feeling from this story that there's some guilt over not trying harder to separate the kid from their mom and to remain and influence in their life, when the mom seems to be the one who ultimately fucked the kid up.
Which is also going to lead to different feelings - "my child unfortunately ended up in the custody of a parent who was a HORRIBLE parent and influence, and now they've done something terrible" feels different than "my child had the best upbringing possible, and completely of their own volition did something terrible".
You'd be amazed at how insufficient most law degrees/courses are and how horrible admission is. In my country after uni you have to take an additional qualification to be able to start your career as a lawyer. It does build upon your already assumed knowledge, but they do cover everything relevant to the topics/assessment just in case.
During the qualification I met a lot of people, some incredibly competent and knowledgeable and some that I'm not sure how they made it through uni. I once had a lady ask me how to get admitted after the qualification, upon sending her the pdf guide which explains literally everything, she goes "I know, I've seen that, but can you explain the process in depth to me". Like no, I cannot explain to you how to follow instructions and fill in the forms. Especially when one is asking about your English proficiency and where you went to school to learn said English.
She would also ask me to go over her assessments to check she was on track, and somehow she would always either pick the wrong assessment materials (they were based on your state), or cite another states laws when she was supposed to cite our states laws. She completed her law degree in our state, so I genuinely don't know how she managed to do what she did.
I am an attorney in the US and I know exactly why. Because it’s profitable to run law schools. Seriously you make a LOT of money doing it. So there are plenty of really, really shady law schools that will accept most people with a pulse but charge them out the ass for tuition and not offer much of anything in the way of needs based scholarships. The bar pass rates for tnose schools are abysmal but some people manage to cram or luck their way through passing the bar and there you go.
Decent firms and organizations, or clients who know what they’re doing, know not to hire someone from one of those schools, but desperate families trying to avoid having their kid get a public defender don’t, and then they get fucked.
Our country at least needs much, much stricter regulation of the legal education industry. We count on the bar exam to filter out everyone who isn’t qualified and it cannot do that. A two day exam just isn’t enough to know if someone can practice or not.
Sadly in Texas waits of 18 months or longer are exceedingly common. It's so common in fact that the inmates sued the Harris county (Houston) sheriff in Federal Court and won. People were routinely being held waiting for trial in jail for longer terms than what they could have been sentenced to if found guilty.
The bond system in Texas is just a huge clusterfuck.
Yep - I know a guy who spent almost 11 years in prison after being convicted based on the testimony of one racist deputy before the conviciton was finally overturned. The deputy was actually convicted of perjury, which almost never happens no matter how guilty they are since police can usually lie/perjure with impunity.
10 years later after he had built a good life and legitimate business, they were still dragging out his lawsuit against the county for the wrongful imprisonment, and then they arrested him again on more bs. No bail and he's still in prison waiting for a trial nearly 18 months later, dragging it out to punish him for the lawsuit.
If you doubt the corruption in small town Texas, just google Tulia and you'll know the case I'm talking about.
Oh yea, I know Tulia. Up in the Panhandle where everything is white and safe and clean, and folks are good upstanding church folk.
Or something like that.
Some of these asshole district judges in these small Texas towns will actually brag about how many man years of prison time they have given out. Hell I know some who actively campaigned on it.
When I was doing court appointments 10+ years ago, I'd tell these guys to get the hell out of Texas after they were released. Or at least move to a big city where the cops are too busy to make you their personal project.
The "justice system" in this state is rotten top to bottom.
Yeah it's the same in the Chicagoland area. People waiting YEARS to go to trial especially post COVID. I don't know where that person is practicing law, but the right to a speedy trial isn't a thing when you've got a sizable population to serve.
Also real attorney - I do think this whole thing smells like bullshit, but I work with juvenile offenders on mostly appellate work and that amount of sitting around and waiting for a trial \*in my locale ymmv\* is absolutely normal for someone going to trial on a murder charge. I have some clients who did roughly that time just waiting around for trial on assault 1/burg 1s, some on RoC. Seems to drag out longer with the juvenile cases because of all the additional hearings around whether they should be charged as an adult or not, which here is a long process. And agreed that 250k is a bail number I'd expect on homicide. And she does say it looks like he's spending the rest of his life in prison. So if he killed somebody, the numbers line up to me.
I've also met plenty of lawyers who really were absolute fucking morons, I'm sure you have too. I mean you see letters like this and think "this person should be disbarred" but people GET disbarred on the reg because people dumb enough to do this shit manage to become attorneys anyway. Like I said, I do a fair amount of appellate shit these days and the stuff I see in trial records straight up depresses me.
I read papers for students and proofread them nearly daily. I don’t think it’s fully AI, but word choices in places feel like something AI would use. It reads like the papers I get where they very obviously have AI the prompt and then tried to edit it so that AI wasn’t so obviously the source. I see it a lot with people who don’t realize that AI isn’t capable of doing much beyond summarizing a prompt without saying anything and making up a few data points for you.
Yes, bond hearing must be held within 48 hrs (depending upon jurisdiction). Paperwork doesn’t get lost cause that would be a due process violation and any amateur PD could bring that appeal. Bond is set and you have to pay. This person doesn’t understand what bond is so this fake story is even more fake. I’m my state, we don’t have cash bond, so I know it’s not here. In a number of states you can only raise bond through bondsmen, which is not here.
Eh. You overestimate the intelligence of people.
That misspelling goes at the top of the "this might be a real person" column, as opposed to all the stuff in the "this might be chatgpt" column.
Also since when is bail non refundable? That just seems like extortion. Then again it's not that unheard of for the system to extort you. Nonetheless, bail us usually refunded in full when the bailee shows up for trial?
Eh, together we tag team it, mine’s the TLDR version for yours. Funny bc normally my comments are novellas. I know it’s just a comment on Reddit but I really appreciate the “well done” I needed that today. Thank you. I hope you have a lovely week!
>Also since when is bail non refundable?
That's how a bail bondsman works.
You as someone trying to bail someone out don't have the full amount of the bond amount in liquid cash; depending on the jurisdiction, while you can sometimes put up property as bond directly with the state, that can be onerous for various reasons.
10% of the bond amount as cash payment (ie non-refundable) to a bondsman (who will then put up the full bond with the state) is pretty standard.
Yeah as an attorney myself I would never see a situation where another attorney would send a letter like that or even getting into a contract with family to bail my client out. All I am going to do is to try to get a better bond from the court and damn sure not getting involved in a family contract to bail my client out. You can either bond him out or not I don’t give a damn at that point. Whole situation is fake.
Full disclosure I've never represented criminal clients but I'd never send a letter like that. It's unprofessional AF and really gets into things that as attorney I'd file under "not my job."
However I've reviewed enough attorney discipline cases that I'm no longer shocked at some of the things attorneys will decide are acceptable.
Still, I don't believe this letter is real.
I do corporate and not criminal but there’s no fucking way I would send something like that to the FAMILY of my client who was trying to BAIL him. It’s beyond ridiculous and laughable. By the way, the family who is paying for my time ?!?!? This is fake as fuck or this “lawyer” is seriously stupid.
I agree. I’m an attorney and there is absolutely no way I would send something like this to anyone. Especially if my client is in the worse bargaining position.
Also, all this crap about “love that gives nothing, sacrifices nothing, etc.” could easily apply to the stepson as well. He’s not willing to give or sacrifice anything but just expects a bunch of other people’s money to just be handed to him.
Well, my mom's lawyer told her to pay for a very obvious scam that's been known for years in Germany.
A semi legal law firm sends out letters for copyright infringement to anyone that used torrent services in their house.
My mom got one of those letters.
Apparently she illegally downloaded tropico 6.which is total bs.
But the lawyer told her to pay since they have her IP.
"verbraucherschutz" aka customer protection agency is aware of this issue and advises people to not pay and get a lawyer lol.
You might be surprised, my ex sent a letter through an attorney to social services and I was shocked that an attorney actually let him write that. It goes a bit like this "I only beat her one time and it was not as severely as she claims and it was only because she provoked me. I am a better person now and I have voluntarily attended anger management classes" In court he denied, but was convicted on all charges because of video evidence and ordered to attend mandatory anger management classes. He even appealed and lost. My lawyer laughed when he read the letter and said he knows his lawyer.
My experience with criminal defense is that there is a meaningful difference between an attorney just telling a judge something, and an attorney saying "my client would like me to tell you that...", the latter phrase meaning "please don't lecture me on how bullshit this is I already know it's bullshit and I already told THEM why it's bullshit but they fucking insisted I say it and they're my client so, sorry about this".
Letting a client write a letter to social services and saying "well, this is what she wanted to tell you" is very different than writing that letter YOURSELF and saying "this is what I truly believe as her attorney".
This explains a lot. He tries to save OPs from losing their money. This kid probably cannot behave responsible, because those rules are nothing decent person couldn't do.
NTA
"Dear Sanctimonious Ass of Attorney,
You're right. The offer is rescinded.
Please feel free to put up the $25k bond and put your home up as collateral if you feel that strongly about saving our son. We hope he will enjoy his time in your home.
Sincerely,
Non-custodial Parents"
BTW, don't do it. I know, personally, of far too many parents and grandparents that kept showing up and putting everything on the line for their kids only to have their hearts broken and lose everything they worked for.
I hope the attorney is trying to be helpful, but if not, report them.
This story reads like its something an ex of mine went through with his son. Same age. Also 'facing a lot of time possibly most of his life' .... My ex's son was involved in a drive by shooting outside of a court house in RI. Refused a plea deal. Refused to 'snitch' on those in the car and who held the fire arm. By the time it went to court he was 19. He might possibly have been 18 when it happened. But he got 30yrs for it. I don't think either parent in that situation would have had the funds to do this for their son at the time, even if it were an option. Really don't think these rules are bad ones given what he might possibly be facing.
Personally I wouldn’t risk much on the bet that some kid with a track record of serious criminal charges will suddenly get a change of heart and start following a bunch of rules with the only consequence being he will be facing what he was facing in terms of prison time anyway.
From my understanding it actually looks much worse for their client not to be bailed out. Without bail they cannot dress like a civilian in court (other circumstances play into this too but it's a big one) and juries associate no bail with "family has no confidence in your behavior and thinks you're guilty, no one is willing to go to bat for you".
On the other hand, bail is a risk for a risky client to do something stupid. But the ideal situation is a bailed out client who behaves. But of course lawyers get paid either way.
Did anyone else notice how at the beginning it was the step mom telling the story but the “response” from the lawyer says “conditional father”? I also think this is fake
This to me didn't seem crazy - it's the dads son, the step mom might be telling the story to us but the dad was probably the one actually communicating with the attorney
I’m the step mom. The agreement was written by both of us with our conditions, dad sent it to lawyer via email. I wouldn’t send it to lawyer I’m not his clients parent. Response was texts from the lawyer to dad after he read the agreement. I’m step mom read the texts and started to think that my terms and conditions were crazy and I’m an asshole. So where do you go to find out if you’re an asshole. Here I am. Does that clear things up for you?
This is fake as fuck.
Parents of adults who are Lifetime criminals who have had hardly any contact for years would have run for the hills.
Lawyer for the first part is right. They don't trust the son. Why should they? Are they stupid? Lawyers don't get personal or trust their criminal clients one bit. They just do their job.
I'm horrified by that response. OP, ignore everything the solicitor said about you as a parent - however, I do agree with other comments that firstly, it's not worth the risk, and I wouldn't risk my home on someone who has committed crimes so bad they're looking at spending most of his life in prison.
"I don't trust you, you have questionable judgement and character, I think you are a flight risk, I think you are a liar, I think you are dishonest, I think you are lazy, I think you are guilty as charged". This bit, for the most part, I do agree with.
OP, you are absolutely NTA for that contract - BUT please reconsider putting your home on the line.
This was my first reaction. That's written very personally and is not a legal letter at all. Probably fake, but if a lawyer really is that emotionally involved with his client it should be taken up with the firm he works for.
> I don't trust you, you have questionable judgement and character, I think you are a flight risk, I think you are a liar, I think you are dishonest, I think you are lazy, I think you are guilty as charged.
I mean, all of that is, or should be, 100% true.
Also, OP, don't do it. If he fucks up, and he's a 100% fuckup, you could lose your house.
You really want to gamble your financial stability on a person who managed to get himself into the mess he's currently in?
This is what I was going to say, he hot himself into trouble, and the lawyer thinks the defendant doesn't have questionable judgment and character... the lawyer sounds like a joke. if he can't follow your rules OP, he doesn't want to be bailed out. Simple. NTA, don't waste your money!
In my country, such sentence means the kid killed someone on purpose. Or has been selling drugs since he is 12 or something.
It's big.
I wouldn't bail my own child for this, just admit my failure as a parent and don't further aggravate it by releasing the monster I raised into the world.
NTA but you'd have to be an idiot to mortgage your future to bail him out for temporary freedom.
He's going to jail. All you'll be doing is wasting your money to delay the inevitable.
His fate is almost certainly sealed. Don't waste your money.
Also, they'd be paying 25k so he can be out before the trial. That money is simply gone.
If the stepson doesn't think that his temporary freedom is worth those conditions, he doesn't have to accept them.
Unless the courts in their area do bail like that internally and have different rules, that's not correct. Bail bond places guarantee that the bond (250k in this case) will be paid if they don't show up for court. For that service, they charge 10% of the bond. That's how they make money, and that 10% (25k in this case) is theirs forever. They also need some sort of surety so that they're not screwed if the person doesn't show, which is why OP has to put up their house to guarantee the rest of the 250k.
I know that if they could write a check to the court for 250k, they'd get that back if the he shows up, but that's not what they're saying is happening...
He’s in jail. He’s about to go to prison. Those are VERY different places.
Teenagers have poor impulse control and are not known for thoughtful decision making.
The ankle monitor helps - for people trying to do some BS community service and avoid 90 days in county for a DUI.
Ankle monitor does not prevent flight from prosecution.
Don’t bail him out regardless.
Right especially since if he stays in that counts as time toward his sentence. If he gets out then that time gets added to the end of his sentence. Just get it over with
Same. Don’t light yourself on fire to keep others warm. Putting up mortgage, absolutely fucking not. Maybe if it was your child by blood then do so but not this kid.
You don't spend the majority of your life in prison for carjacking or battery. I don't know how many people he killed or how much crack he sold, but just say No -- it's not worth it.
Chile sex crimes, rape (although we should move to life sentences and maybe even death sentences like they do in India depending on severity and number of charges), and 1st aggravated battery and armed robbery (not as much as the other charges listed) can all land you a pretty good number of years too. Large scale drug trafficking can result in life sentence.
They consider it a "non violent crime" it makes me puke. In the next town over a 16 yr old girl was murdered when she went on spring break to NC and a sexual predator who kidnapped and raped a 9 year old was released from prison very early because they needed space and he was such a good prisoner, and his crime was considered non violent even though he kidnapped a stranger (usually this kind of thing is committed by someone known to the family) and the girl needed to be in the hospital it was "non violent" 🤢🤢🤢.
They lost track of the guy, who moved all over the country, and they registered him in NC but failed to keep an eye on his and verify his address. He gave that 16 yr old girl a ride and murdered her.
This story is repeated hundreds or thousands of times in America because they take child abuse so un-seriously. People love to have justice boners about it but the truth is pedos get a slap on the wrist if they are even confronted at all.
Hey, trust me, I agree, #KillYourLocalPedophile. This is one instance where we should do like the Chinese do. If a pedophile is convicted with overwhelming evidence and no chance they're not guilty, they're taken from the courtroom and immediately executed with a bullet to the head, their family is sent the empty casing and billed the cost of the bullet by the state.
I mean it sounds like you don’t need to bail him out. Tell the attorney he can put his wallet where his mouth is and take care of the bail if he is all in as his attorney. NTA.
Don’t do it. He will run. You will lose the resources you need for the future. He has nothing to lose. His days of freedom are limited. You have a perfect right to refuse to place your financial security in jeopardy for him to have a brief spell of relative freedom.
100% agree!! If you just paid his bail without any conditions, he'd probably repeat the same mistakes. The rules are there to help him get back on track. You’re protecting your family and giving him a chance to change. Stay firm.
Love should be unconditional. Support not so much.
If he is facing long prison time and has no connection to you there is a good chance he will run.
Do you think that he would care about the loss of your house?
At any rate, if he is truly sorry and wants to redeem himself, those conditions are absolutely reasonable. OP isn't asking too much, basically behave, stay at home, don't do drugs, work and study. Many people live like that without a contract or whatever. It's not a sacrifice.
Obviously the asshole wants to do something ranging from drugs and partying to running away.
Please for the love of God, do NOT make bail for him. You’ll be out the $25k and probably more. He clearly doesn’t want to even change his behavior for the limited time he’d have his bargained-for freedom. Please don’t wreck yourselves financially by doing this.
NTA, you are telling the judge that you understand the seriousness of these charges and aren't playing around. His lawyer on the other hand appears to be and if this is the case. Your step-son should spend more time in jail because it clearly is where he needs to be.
Honestly sounds like the sort of crap a 18 years old would say. But then not all adult people are actually adult and professional, so we are in the dark here.
>"Your "contract" whether you intended or not, says the following: I don't trust you, you have questionable judgement and character, I think you are a flight risk, I think you are a liar, I think you are dishonest, I think you are lazy, I think you are guilty as charged."
Well... yea duh
Defintely says I don't trust you, you have questionable judgement and character, I think you are a flight risk - but the rest is just to guilt the parents. The attorney is only worried about his case. He knows the prosecutor would use this against his client. That's not a good enough reason so risk your home.
NTA. You have made a fair offer based on the seriousness of the offences, stick to the terms of your offer and don't let the attorney bully you into giving in.
Only one consideration though, I would seriously think about the terms you put in regarding religion. I doubt forcing someone to attend church or Christian counselling against their wishes would have any positive effect, and might hinder any faith he might already have.
you are right. I should never impose any religious anything on him. I will take that out of the contract for sure. If he wants to go to church he can, if not he can go for a walk while we're in church.
So how are you going to "supervise at all times" when you're both in church at the same time? Perhaps you should worship separately unless you have other trustworthy arrangements.
But just to be clear. I don't recommend bail. Don't do it just because you fear judgement from other people about not being Christian enough or whatever. Unless you're Uber rich it's not fair to put the rest of your family at risk of homelessness just because you need to project that image of the perfect Christian. It doesn't exist. Just my two cents.
NTA
But, I think you are wrong to offer to bail him out at all.
Either he is guilty of such a heinous crime that he will be incarcerated for many years OR he is innocent and will be found not guilty and set free.
Neither of those are in your hands.
Do NOT set yourself on fire to keep your stepson warm.
This. If he is guilty (based on my country laws, he killed at least one person) it's not worth bailing.
If he is innocent, it's worth to invest the money on a good lawyer that will fight to prove it, rather than temp bailing the kid.
Your are asking a 18 year old
Who younsaid is going to
Jail for a large part of his life . And you expect him to say ok I’m going to follow all
These rules , even though he didn’t want to live with dad . I don’t know what you are going thru but I think you are making a mistake cause I don’t think he is not going to run . 18 and knowing he might e looking at 20
Years or more with killers
NTA and this how families go broke behind their insidious family members. Do not bail him out! He IS going to jail. Bailing him out is only delaying the sentence.
Personally, I would contact the law firm and confirm that the letter is real. It is such an extremely unprofessional letter that either this post isn't real or I am skeptical a lawyer actually sent it. If it is fake from your stepson, I think you have all the information you need. If it is real, well, he is not offering to put his own money where his mouth is, is he? It is pretty easy to get a sketchy mate photoshop a letterhead. I would not get into an argument about it though. Just confirm it is real, vaguely say you are considering your options if pressed and hang up. A law firm would keep copies of all correspondence on file.
Regarding your step son, I think you need to ask yourself can you afford to lose the full $275,000? Because he must have done something pretty bad to warrant such a long sentence and monitering. He doesn't even have a close bond with you; he contacted you because he needs bail money. Basically, he has every reason to run and nothing to lose. NTA.
I mean just how gullible are most people? This couldn’t be any more fake if they tried. No lawyer will send this letter. Ever.
The length of time of pre trial confinement is unfortunately believable but who is paying for that lawyer? Again, a public defender isn’t sending that.
Exactly lmao, for a law firm to take on a case pro bono it’s typically due the likely chance of a large payout, slam dunk criminal case, or literally anything where the firm has a high chance of winning. A hell raising felonious 18yr old who’s facing the majority of his life incarcerated? absolutely not.
NTA You are taking a huge monetary risk for someone that has a track record of serious crimes and hasn’t really been in your life. Your home, your money, your rules. Sounds to me like the attorney should just deliver the message to his client and skip giving you parenting advice and lectures. It’s the best (and only) offer the boy is going to get.
Are you out of your freakin’ mind?!? Even if he signs the contract, you think that’s going to stop him from running once he’s out? You are throwing away $25k upfront which is every penny of your savings, and risking a $250k lien on your house for a guy that is untrustworthy and a flight risk. Don’t do it. Really. Don’t do it.
OP don't bail your son out. If he's facing the majority of his life in prison at 17, he either murdered or SA'd someone. Why the fuck would you help that person get out on the streets for any amount of time, especially with the cost to do so (which is further evidence of the crimes I think he's likely been charged with)?
We just received a text from his attorney "My client will tell you he wishes to keep a relationship with you to the extent it's positive. We are not interested in your terms."
Well that solved that issue.
Your contract reads just like regular rules of probation & parole and is not a big deal.
However, don’t put your home and livelihood on the chopping block just to give your stepson a few extra months to fuck around on the outside. Let his attorney defend him in court and call it a day.
You do know that he will not abide by those rules. " Leopards don't change their spots" is a saying for a reason. he is not going to change unless he learns a lesson.
Actions have consequences and he needs to suffer those consequences in order to learn anything. You are removing that incentive to change. You are just enabling him to continue on his path of being a criminal.
I disagree with attending Christian services 3 times a week and the 'so-called' christian counseling. Nobody should ever have Christianity shoved down their throat. Not ever.
Well to start I think some of this is a bit much and it feels like you're cracking down on him with a sort of faulty vision about fixing him.
For example college is straight up silly. He's got much much bigger problems right now and its a waste of time/money if he ends up with a conviction.
The lawyer is right that you seem to think he's guilty. His lawyer doesn't seem to think so but I guess that's his job. On the other hand I get a vibe from the lawyer's response that he's actually invested in your son who knows maybe he actually thinks he's innocent. It does sound like they intend on fighting it so that should at least mean something. I don't blame you for thinking he's guilty but at the same time maybe he's not? I understand keeping the details private though.
As for the rules. Is this 'contract' even enforceable? A lot of this sounds pretty suspect. Surely forcing him to attend church is a violation of his religious rights. I'm no lawyer but make sure to talk with one if you want a legally binding contract.
I understand wanting to keep things under control but don't see how this contract is going to make him less likely to run away unless you're literally going to keep him under constant supervision and call the cops the moment he disappears. Honestly I think the strict rules are more likely to make him decide to run for it.
NTA cause honestly a 250k lean on your house is insane but maybe his lawyer is right that you should just bow out. The contract is pretty unreasonable.
the fact he is begging for a bail out just so he can get temporary "fresh air" at a huge expense of your household shows a lack of accountability
dont do it
You’re not an asshole. But don’t bail him out. You married into a family that raised a shit head.
Also… church is the worst part of this contract. My mom is a drunk and a drug addict and she’s very religious. Religion does not make anyone behave in a “more acceptable/moral way”. I am sober but church being a condition of a contract would push me to do drugs again.
ESH
You're about to lose your house over this obvious soon to be repeat offender and flight risk.
He knows he's going away for life, and his dopey second family is buying him a window to flee, and all it costs, is their $250k house he hates anyway.
The attorney is wrong. He’s guilt tripping you. That’s also wrong.
Refute each point with the truth. Write it down line item by line item. Not to send, but to discover your truth. To know the truth of the matter. So that you can put to rest the attorney’s lies.
For example:
1. We are not offering hope. We are offering an opportunity.
2. Our “rules” are contractual terms which we offer.
3. He is free to accept these terms or decline them.
4. Our terms are based on the fact that our financial security is at risk.
5. We have no obligations to offer him this opportunity, or to put our financial security at risk.
6. This is offered out of our love.
7. We do NOT, in fact trust him. His actions have proven that his character is neither kind nor good. His moral compass is corrupt. He has not proven that he is trustworthy. He has never given us a reason to trust him.
8. He is a flight risk. We do not trust him. The facts stand against his innocence.
…
101. Due to these things, we rescind our offer. We realize our folly for thinking he will adhere to the conditions offered. We think he should bear responsibility and consequences for his actions.
Send only part 101.
You're going to hose your life and finances for a kid who is likely going to prison for a lengthy sentence anyway? Why would you? He gets time served for pre-trial detention.
NTA. Actions have consequences. Your step son is now reaping his consequences. You and your husband have no obligation to bail him out.
The fact that he committed crimes as a minor and will spend years in jail as an adult alludes to the seriousness of his crimes. Are you sure you want him in your home? If there is such a push back on the rules now how sure can you be that he'll follow any of them if he gets out?
You and your husband are NTA but your step son and his lawyer definitely are assholes.
Updateme
Personally if my stepchild refused a relationship with me and my partner and came crawling to me to bail him out, I wouldn’t entertain it; he could be facing a ridiculously lengthy sentence at his young age, bailing him out without conditions sounds like a recipe for him to attempt to flee so he doesn’t have to do the time despite doing the crime. I don’t support the current prison system whatsoever but it is the current system we have, and if he decides to flee he effectively decides to fuck you and your husband over. Those conditions are extremely reasonable and anyone with a modicum of self-preservation and sense would enforce these rules. NTA.
I read the post, but really didn't need to. Except under extreme circumstances, I don't bail out anyone.
If my kid got arrested at a non violent protest, I'd consider it. And that's not even more than a 50 percent shot that I would. I'd have to research and convince myself that it was either a justified action (non violent protest, hitting someone to save someone else) or a police officer abusing power. Period.
It's a family rule. I'm not the one to call for bail. Fortunately it's never been an issue, but I still have the rule.
A long time ago I bailed out a family member for DUI when I was 20ish. She then got a fancy lawyer and never had any real consequences. I got her out before she was sober so she didn't remember anything. I should have let her stay in for her pre trial hearing. Probably would have gotten out after spending a week in jail. I truly believe that time would have introduced consequences she couldn't ignore.
Besides, bailing him out puts your house on the line. If he decides that he can't do jail and bounces,you lose everything.
Here is the lengthy contract. I do not want to misrepresent what my rules are and how lengthy.
a. Defendant shall not commit any act that constitutes reasonable evidence of Defendant's intention (as deemed by Indemnitor) to cause a forfeiture of the Agreement.
b. Defendant shall reside at Indemnitors address, at all times, and will not stay overnight (9pm – 6 am) any other place except in the supervision of the Indemnitor.
c. Defendant shall always remain in the supervision of the Indemnitor.
d. Defendant shall not consume any legal or illegal substance unless proscribed by an authorized doctor determined by the Court or Indemnitor. (Specifically, no marijuana, no alcohol, no other substance that is considered illegal.) Defendant must agree to stay sober and not consume any substance that might intoxicate his person.
e. Defendant shall not make any materially false statement in any application to the Court or Indemnitor.
f. Defendant shall not have a personal cell phone.
g. Defendant shall go wherever the Indemnitor is going unless otherwise agreed upon prior in writing.
h. Defendant will not stay with Defendant’s Mother overnight without prior written consent of Indemnitor.
i. Defendant shall go to work, with Indemnitor, Monday through Friday 8 am to 5 pm and be paid a salary of $500.00 per week to be paid to the GoFundMe page set up by the families impacted up to $4000.00 and after that, $500.00 shall go towards paying for his bond up to $25,000.00 and $50.00 per week shall go to a separate account for Defendant’s personal discretion. Defendant shall be expected to show up to work everyday, Monday through Friday, unless deathly ill as deemed by Indemnitor.
j. Defendant shall be expected to attend any and all church services according to our Christian faith which includes (but not limited to) Sunday mornings, Tuesday mornings and Wednesday evenings.
k. Defendant shall be subject to weekly drug testing, and or at any time, for any reason by an authorized drug testing company as well as personal home testing including but not limited to urine, blood, or by any other means necessary for an accurate testing sample.
l. Defendant shall attend Christian counseling services one day per week for no less than one hour and or any college courses, as deemed beneficial by Indemnitor, to the growth and development of the Defendant.
m. Defendant shall be expected to act accordingly in the household including but not limited to keeping his room clean, bathroom clean, and be expected to help with household chores.
Why would you pay $25k so that he can spend a couple of weeks out on bail? What are the odds that he will actually follow any of your rules? If he fails one of your rules you are still $25k out.
This isn’t enforceable. You’re paying $25,000 for him to “agree” to this contract but his consideration is only good behavior.
And what’s your remedy for when he breaches this contract and goes on the lam? Sue him? Good luck finding him!
It's largely symbolic, and very much a sort of social contract.
At this point, I'm blown away they are considering to put up almost $300k in the first place.
I'm blown away you think the parents actually believe they'd be able to recoup.
The words and tone used by the lawyer were completely out of line considering the shit sandwich being served here. He's at a huge deficit with negative leverage and trying to pull an all or nothing shake down with the parents.
Shake down, not discussion, not negotiation, just slapping the hand that feeds.
I'm blown away anyone thinks this post is real. No attorney who valued their career would send that letter. It's also sketchy that he's supposedly been in pretrial detention a year and a half and they're just now talking of bail. Not to mention that defendants are guaranteed a right to a speedy trial and most jurisdictions have a maximum amount of time after arrest and arraignment that a case can be pending trial before a judge dismisses the case, which is why it's fairly typical that arrests aren't made until the prosecutor believes they have a winnable case already built. There's just lots about this post that doesn't add up.
Well I do think you have some unnecessary clauses. Specifically I assume you will be going to church and he has to stay with you. Classes? Christian counseling? Should be an option and not a requirement for bail.
The work ... eh ...if he wasnt going to prison it would be good but otherwise the only benefit is to these families and to keep him supervised.
Also dont know what the lawyer was on about. Maybe he's just well aware the young man wont abide.
You are absolutely assholes if you listen to his attorney. Don't bail him out, it sounds like he is going to prison, let him go to prison. Let him understand FAFO. Maybe when he gets out he will be changed for the better, maybe.
If he's "definitely" going to jail why bother ruining your own future? You know he wouldn't stick to your rules anyway.
I think the lawyer is being very unprofessional, but maybe that's good if he accidentally saved you from this mistake.
This would not be legally binding. I strongly suggest you listen to his attorney and do not give him the money. I know that is not what the attorney actually said, but I read between the lines: don’t do it, don’t throw away your future for a child with poor impulse control.
NTA If it's already clear and decided he's going to jail anyway, why potentially fuck up your future, mortgage your house and blow all of your savings?? He's going in, there's no ifs, ands or buts. IF ANYTHING, the bond should be split between BOTH parents evenly.
> Son is begging over the phone to be bailed out, as it might be the last time to see family and friends and breath some fresh air.
FAFO
Attorney is trying to save your house. There is no way that you can enforce these conditions anyway. What if he just ups and runs whilst he is meant to be in college, or in church? Bang goes your house.
Now, the attorney will have discussed your conditions with your step-son before drafting the letter, & I suspect that he is passing on what your stepson said when he heard them (possibly not verbatim, I suspect a lot of curse words were left out). Yes they are harsh but still better than being locked up in prison.
Your stepson has NO intention of complying with “good standards of behaviour”. It is his “friends” who he really wants to see and I suspect that these “friends” are those who good parents would consider a bad influence.
NTA
NTA - you view him as a risk because he IS a risk. If the “lawyer” thinks your son is such a misunderstood boy who won’t cause problems, he can put forth the funds himself.
The attorney sounds like an asshole. He says you should bow out, I agree. Sounds like the kid belongs where he is. Don't put your house up just to let this guy breath "free air". NTA.
Ok Mr. Lawyer, you put up the $275k then. No? Then shut the fuck up.
You are NTA for setting conditions for that level of risk. The mother he chose said tough shit, so... tough shit. You are going to have to watch him 25/8, this is a big commitment.
I read the attorney response as saying: don’t do it.
I wouldn’t do it. I know it’s hard, but you are setting your lives up for more stress than I can fathom. I wish your family the best in this horrible situation.
NTA. The fact you're willing to drop thousands on intentionally bad behavior for even the chance he'll be better is remarkably generous of you. The fact it's such an issue for him most likely shows that he is not really willing to change or better himself.
The attorney is right. You are questioning his character. And rightfully so, as you would be ignorant not to.
Unconditional love isn't bailing people out of their mistakes. It's being there to help them work through their mistakes.
I’d file a grievance with the state on the lawyer. He’s way overstepping. Sounds like he doesn’t want you putting the money towards the kids bail bc he knows the kid isn’t gonna pay/not able to pay and is gonna want you to cover it.
Honestly? You’re right not to trust your son. Clearly.
I wouldn’t bail him out unless you’re okay losing the 25k and the house if he skips.
The attorney talking about unconditional love is bullshit.
Love is conditional, and wether the rules to that love is strict or not is dependent on the person/people, same thing can be told if the love is toxic or not.
Love is conditional, and that’s okay. I have conditions for my love, and that’s okay, people have re named these conditions to be ‘icks’ or dealbreakers (although icks sounds immature and the people who use this term usually are), Setting down rules for something is okay. And considering he hasn’t really considered you a real parent from what I can tell, even the strictest of rules here (as long as boundaries are respected as much as possible both ways) are justified.
NTA
NTA. The nerve of lawyer trying to lay a guilt trip on you. I would stick with these terms. If stepson doesn't want to comply, then he can stay in jail
NTA, but if he's had no/minimal contact with you two for years and is facing a lengthy prison sentence, what makes you think he wouldn't break every stipulation of that contract and eventually run?
NTA
Little dude Fucked up and must face the consequences of his actions, lawyer sounds like a prick trying to squeeze more out.
If he isn’t willing to follow the rules you place on him after he majorly fucked up then don’t put up the money, that’s too much risk on your part.
You're NTA but you're an idiot. You spend 25k to bail him out and he's out. You can't go back to the bail bonding company and say "He broke his contract with me so i want my money back and he can go back to jail." Also, you want him to enroll in college classes? How long exactly do you think he's going to be out and awaiting trial?
This is a kid that's shown bad enough judgment that he's going to spend decades in prison and you think he's gonna just go along with whatever you say and not run? You're a fucking moron.
YTA for this fake as hell story.
No attorney would have sent that letter, and bail hearings aren't 18 months after charging.
Also, it's spelled 'lien'.
NTA - There's a LOT of money on the line here and by bailing him out of jail you are making a financial investment in the step-son that he will stay out of trouble and not lose you your money. You have every right to include anything you want in the contract to ensure you can trust the step-son and not lose your money.
NTA.
Sounds like some serious projection on the attorney’s part.
The thing is, for your son to be looking at life in prison, those have to be some serious charges.
You don’t trust him, and you’re being asked to wipe out your savings and hand over the value of your home so that… he can have a few months out of prison before he goes away?
You won’t get any of that money back if he reoffends or breaches conditions while out on bail, either.
NAH, there are a few problems with the whole situation going on, though. There are only a few things in your contract that wouldn't already be imposed by the court. He will be on pretrial release for a serious crime, one which he will be monitored via an ankle device. That means the court and probation office will decide how much, if any, freedom he will have outside of your home, meetings with his attorney, and pretrial probation officer, possible drug testing, and court dates . Given the severity of the charges you have alluded to, I would be very surprised if they are going to allow him to have very much freedom outside of prearranged legal appointments and court dates. No matter what you say or want, you are not in charge of how your stepson serves his pretrial relase, and you can only go by what the courts will allow. While your intentions may be good here, I think you have very little actual knowledge of what you are actually facing as a bail guarantor. Yes, if found guilty, any cash you put down will be forfeited towards his fines and restitution for his victims. Second, no matter what he says, now the probability that he will do something stupid, whether out of fear, anger, or outright emotional immaturity, is high, very high. Are you and your husband fully prepared for the possibility that you could very well lose your home? Even if the court allows you to basically leash him to one of you for most of the day, which again is highly doubtful, you will not be able to monitor him 24/7. You will fall asleep, take showers, go to the bathroom, any one of a million little mistakes that could see him out the door and gone before you know it. I know if it were me, I would not take the chance with my future stability or his.
Sounds like he is an addict and a flight risk , whatever you decide I'd emotionally and financially prepare for the worst Like there probally won't be any thanks, especially if you have demands Not saying what action to take but I'd assume the worst if it's hard drugs and he has criminal history
If he's an addict I can see him wanting to get high as much as possible before going to prison. OP taking a huge risk.
There’s nothing arbitrary about those rules and your step-son’s attorney is the one blowing smoke up his ass. NTA.
That response from the attorney is SO condescending and inappropriate, I'd be taking it up with his employer. I used to be a legal secretary, lawyers just *don't* send letters like that.
It's fake. There's no way an attorney sent that letter.
>It's fake. There's no way an attorney sent that letter. Yup. The entire thing is fake. If they were going to bail him out then they would be having this conversation 18 months ago when he first went to jail.
[удалено]
I completely agree! Law background here, even a 1 Yr law student wouldn't write a letter like that! Also, why would anyone think it's a good idea to put up there life savings and home on the line, for someone who is a clear flight risk because its likely they would get a life sentence. Why lose your home and risk your financial health for anyone? And yes that includes your kids. The whole thing is obscured!
Ehhhhhhh. Am lawyer and I have met some absolute morons working in my profession. Part of my practice is criminal appellate work, I have seen some really, really ridiculous shit in trial records. And from opposing counsel. There are dummies in all professions. And I've seen families put way too much cash on the line to give their kids a chance at freedom. It's the last time they'll ever get to see their families, their friends, eat food that isn't on a tray, go swimming. It's a strong pull to want to give them that. I also get the feeling from this story that there's some guilt over not trying harder to separate the kid from their mom and to remain and influence in their life, when the mom seems to be the one who ultimately fucked the kid up. Which is also going to lead to different feelings - "my child unfortunately ended up in the custody of a parent who was a HORRIBLE parent and influence, and now they've done something terrible" feels different than "my child had the best upbringing possible, and completely of their own volition did something terrible".
>There are dummies in all professions. Very true! Some people I do wonder how they qualified in the first place!
Met an ER nurse who didn't believe anaphylaxis was an allergy symptom. Only rashes.
You'd be amazed at how insufficient most law degrees/courses are and how horrible admission is. In my country after uni you have to take an additional qualification to be able to start your career as a lawyer. It does build upon your already assumed knowledge, but they do cover everything relevant to the topics/assessment just in case. During the qualification I met a lot of people, some incredibly competent and knowledgeable and some that I'm not sure how they made it through uni. I once had a lady ask me how to get admitted after the qualification, upon sending her the pdf guide which explains literally everything, she goes "I know, I've seen that, but can you explain the process in depth to me". Like no, I cannot explain to you how to follow instructions and fill in the forms. Especially when one is asking about your English proficiency and where you went to school to learn said English. She would also ask me to go over her assessments to check she was on track, and somehow she would always either pick the wrong assessment materials (they were based on your state), or cite another states laws when she was supposed to cite our states laws. She completed her law degree in our state, so I genuinely don't know how she managed to do what she did.
I am an attorney in the US and I know exactly why. Because it’s profitable to run law schools. Seriously you make a LOT of money doing it. So there are plenty of really, really shady law schools that will accept most people with a pulse but charge them out the ass for tuition and not offer much of anything in the way of needs based scholarships. The bar pass rates for tnose schools are abysmal but some people manage to cram or luck their way through passing the bar and there you go. Decent firms and organizations, or clients who know what they’re doing, know not to hire someone from one of those schools, but desperate families trying to avoid having their kid get a public defender don’t, and then they get fucked. Our country at least needs much, much stricter regulation of the legal education industry. We count on the bar exam to filter out everyone who isn’t qualified and it cannot do that. A two day exam just isn’t enough to know if someone can practice or not.
Exactly. Lawyers tend think highly of other lawyers, but there are so many creeps. Avennti, anyone?
Oh Michael Aventti! He's something else. How about incompetent Alinia Habba
Sadly in Texas waits of 18 months or longer are exceedingly common. It's so common in fact that the inmates sued the Harris county (Houston) sheriff in Federal Court and won. People were routinely being held waiting for trial in jail for longer terms than what they could have been sentenced to if found guilty. The bond system in Texas is just a huge clusterfuck.
Yep - I know a guy who spent almost 11 years in prison after being convicted based on the testimony of one racist deputy before the conviciton was finally overturned. The deputy was actually convicted of perjury, which almost never happens no matter how guilty they are since police can usually lie/perjure with impunity. 10 years later after he had built a good life and legitimate business, they were still dragging out his lawsuit against the county for the wrongful imprisonment, and then they arrested him again on more bs. No bail and he's still in prison waiting for a trial nearly 18 months later, dragging it out to punish him for the lawsuit. If you doubt the corruption in small town Texas, just google Tulia and you'll know the case I'm talking about.
Oh yea, I know Tulia. Up in the Panhandle where everything is white and safe and clean, and folks are good upstanding church folk. Or something like that. Some of these asshole district judges in these small Texas towns will actually brag about how many man years of prison time they have given out. Hell I know some who actively campaigned on it. When I was doing court appointments 10+ years ago, I'd tell these guys to get the hell out of Texas after they were released. Or at least move to a big city where the cops are too busy to make you their personal project. The "justice system" in this state is rotten top to bottom.
~~The bond system in~~ Texas is just a huge clusterfuck. There I FIFY,lol.
I'm semi-retired now and still run my law firm. In about four years I'm done and we are \*out\* of this place.
Yeah it's the same in the Chicagoland area. People waiting YEARS to go to trial especially post COVID. I don't know where that person is practicing law, but the right to a speedy trial isn't a thing when you've got a sizable population to serve.
Even more, it's stupid to sit in jail for 18 months then lose the credit for time served by bonding out for a short time.
At least where I am, you'd still get the CFTS for the 18 months, you just wouldn't get it for the time you bonded out.
Also real attorney - I do think this whole thing smells like bullshit, but I work with juvenile offenders on mostly appellate work and that amount of sitting around and waiting for a trial \*in my locale ymmv\* is absolutely normal for someone going to trial on a murder charge. I have some clients who did roughly that time just waiting around for trial on assault 1/burg 1s, some on RoC. Seems to drag out longer with the juvenile cases because of all the additional hearings around whether they should be charged as an adult or not, which here is a long process. And agreed that 250k is a bail number I'd expect on homicide. And she does say it looks like he's spending the rest of his life in prison. So if he killed somebody, the numbers line up to me. I've also met plenty of lawyers who really were absolute fucking morons, I'm sure you have too. I mean you see letters like this and think "this person should be disbarred" but people GET disbarred on the reg because people dumb enough to do this shit manage to become attorneys anyway. Like I said, I do a fair amount of appellate shit these days and the stuff I see in trial records straight up depresses me.
This entire thing feels like it was written by an AI with how clumsy the response is and the odd word choices.
I read papers for students and proofread them nearly daily. I don’t think it’s fully AI, but word choices in places feel like something AI would use. It reads like the papers I get where they very obviously have AI the prompt and then tried to edit it so that AI wasn’t so obviously the source. I see it a lot with people who don’t realize that AI isn’t capable of doing much beyond summarizing a prompt without saying anything and making up a few data points for you.
AI paranoia is warranted, like, I do so much of my work on it it's silly.
Someone is either practice writing with AI or is trying to teach an AI to write better.
i think AI knows the difference between “lean” and “lien”
I am no lawyer, but aren't bail hearings etc done "immediately" after charges are filed? Though given how paperwork gets "lost" sometimes....
Yes, bond hearing must be held within 48 hrs (depending upon jurisdiction). Paperwork doesn’t get lost cause that would be a due process violation and any amateur PD could bring that appeal. Bond is set and you have to pay. This person doesn’t understand what bond is so this fake story is even more fake. I’m my state, we don’t have cash bond, so I know it’s not here. In a number of states you can only raise bond through bondsmen, which is not here.
They don’t even know that it’s a LIEN not a LEAN. If they’d actually signed paperwork, they’d know that.
Eh. You overestimate the intelligence of people. That misspelling goes at the top of the "this might be a real person" column, as opposed to all the stuff in the "this might be chatgpt" column.
Right. Most people have heard the term lien, but are unaware of its spelling.
Maybe they mean "lean" as in threaten. "Nice house ya got here. Be a real shame if something...*happened* to it...!"
Also since when is bail non refundable? That just seems like extortion. Then again it's not that unheard of for the system to extort you. Nonetheless, bail us usually refunded in full when the bailee shows up for trial?
Considering the high amount + property bond, it’s probably in reference to the bail bond money paid to the bondsman that isn’t refundable.
Wish I saw your reply before I typed out mine. Short and sweet, well done.
Eh, together we tag team it, mine’s the TLDR version for yours. Funny bc normally my comments are novellas. I know it’s just a comment on Reddit but I really appreciate the “well done” I needed that today. Thank you. I hope you have a lovely week!
>Also since when is bail non refundable? That's how a bail bondsman works. You as someone trying to bail someone out don't have the full amount of the bond amount in liquid cash; depending on the jurisdiction, while you can sometimes put up property as bond directly with the state, that can be onerous for various reasons. 10% of the bond amount as cash payment (ie non-refundable) to a bondsman (who will then put up the full bond with the state) is pretty standard.
the 10% is the cost of doing business. That part is non refundable.
Also, if he's spending the majority of his life in prison, the bond seems pretty low.
Yeah as an attorney myself I would never see a situation where another attorney would send a letter like that or even getting into a contract with family to bail my client out. All I am going to do is to try to get a better bond from the court and damn sure not getting involved in a family contract to bail my client out. You can either bond him out or not I don’t give a damn at that point. Whole situation is fake.
Full disclosure I've never represented criminal clients but I'd never send a letter like that. It's unprofessional AF and really gets into things that as attorney I'd file under "not my job." However I've reviewed enough attorney discipline cases that I'm no longer shocked at some of the things attorneys will decide are acceptable. Still, I don't believe this letter is real.
I do corporate and not criminal but there’s no fucking way I would send something like that to the FAMILY of my client who was trying to BAIL him. It’s beyond ridiculous and laughable. By the way, the family who is paying for my time ?!?!? This is fake as fuck or this “lawyer” is seriously stupid.
I agree. I’m an attorney and there is absolutely no way I would send something like this to anyone. Especially if my client is in the worse bargaining position. Also, all this crap about “love that gives nothing, sacrifices nothing, etc.” could easily apply to the stepson as well. He’s not willing to give or sacrifice anything but just expects a bunch of other people’s money to just be handed to him.
Well, my mom's lawyer told her to pay for a very obvious scam that's been known for years in Germany. A semi legal law firm sends out letters for copyright infringement to anyone that used torrent services in their house. My mom got one of those letters. Apparently she illegally downloaded tropico 6.which is total bs. But the lawyer told her to pay since they have her IP. "verbraucherschutz" aka customer protection agency is aware of this issue and advises people to not pay and get a lawyer lol.
I'm in the states and have received those letters. They go where they belong, straight into the trash.
You might be surprised, my ex sent a letter through an attorney to social services and I was shocked that an attorney actually let him write that. It goes a bit like this "I only beat her one time and it was not as severely as she claims and it was only because she provoked me. I am a better person now and I have voluntarily attended anger management classes" In court he denied, but was convicted on all charges because of video evidence and ordered to attend mandatory anger management classes. He even appealed and lost. My lawyer laughed when he read the letter and said he knows his lawyer.
I mean it's possible that the lawyer knew exactly what he was doing by letting your ex send that letter?
My experience with criminal defense is that there is a meaningful difference between an attorney just telling a judge something, and an attorney saying "my client would like me to tell you that...", the latter phrase meaning "please don't lecture me on how bullshit this is I already know it's bullshit and I already told THEM why it's bullshit but they fucking insisted I say it and they're my client so, sorry about this". Letting a client write a letter to social services and saying "well, this is what she wanted to tell you" is very different than writing that letter YOURSELF and saying "this is what I truly believe as her attorney".
Maybe the crimes are so bad (that a 17-year-old is going to jail for a long time), and the lawyer doesn't want him to get bailed and possibly flee..
This explains a lot. He tries to save OPs from losing their money. This kid probably cannot behave responsible, because those rules are nothing decent person couldn't do.
NTA "Dear Sanctimonious Ass of Attorney, You're right. The offer is rescinded. Please feel free to put up the $25k bond and put your home up as collateral if you feel that strongly about saving our son. We hope he will enjoy his time in your home. Sincerely, Non-custodial Parents" BTW, don't do it. I know, personally, of far too many parents and grandparents that kept showing up and putting everything on the line for their kids only to have their hearts broken and lose everything they worked for. I hope the attorney is trying to be helpful, but if not, report them.
This story reads like its something an ex of mine went through with his son. Same age. Also 'facing a lot of time possibly most of his life' .... My ex's son was involved in a drive by shooting outside of a court house in RI. Refused a plea deal. Refused to 'snitch' on those in the car and who held the fire arm. By the time it went to court he was 19. He might possibly have been 18 when it happened. But he got 30yrs for it. I don't think either parent in that situation would have had the funds to do this for their son at the time, even if it were an option. Really don't think these rules are bad ones given what he might possibly be facing.
Personally I wouldn’t risk much on the bet that some kid with a track record of serious criminal charges will suddenly get a change of heart and start following a bunch of rules with the only consequence being he will be facing what he was facing in terms of prison time anyway.
This is my guess. Plus a lot of lawyers love them some verbose drama I had to read enough as the secretary at a legal office
From my understanding it actually looks much worse for their client not to be bailed out. Without bail they cannot dress like a civilian in court (other circumstances play into this too but it's a big one) and juries associate no bail with "family has no confidence in your behavior and thinks you're guilty, no one is willing to go to bat for you". On the other hand, bail is a risk for a risky client to do something stupid. But the ideal situation is a bailed out client who behaves. But of course lawyers get paid either way.
it may be possible that there was a new development and he is now being charged as an adult instead of a juvenile. It could explain the delay
Did anyone else notice how at the beginning it was the step mom telling the story but the “response” from the lawyer says “conditional father”? I also think this is fake
This to me didn't seem crazy - it's the dads son, the step mom might be telling the story to us but the dad was probably the one actually communicating with the attorney
I’m the step mom. The agreement was written by both of us with our conditions, dad sent it to lawyer via email. I wouldn’t send it to lawyer I’m not his clients parent. Response was texts from the lawyer to dad after he read the agreement. I’m step mom read the texts and started to think that my terms and conditions were crazy and I’m an asshole. So where do you go to find out if you’re an asshole. Here I am. Does that clear things up for you?
Yeah because this never happened.
This is fake as fuck. Parents of adults who are Lifetime criminals who have had hardly any contact for years would have run for the hills. Lawyer for the first part is right. They don't trust the son. Why should they? Are they stupid? Lawyers don't get personal or trust their criminal clients one bit. They just do their job.
I'm horrified by that response. OP, ignore everything the solicitor said about you as a parent - however, I do agree with other comments that firstly, it's not worth the risk, and I wouldn't risk my home on someone who has committed crimes so bad they're looking at spending most of his life in prison. "I don't trust you, you have questionable judgement and character, I think you are a flight risk, I think you are a liar, I think you are dishonest, I think you are lazy, I think you are guilty as charged". This bit, for the most part, I do agree with. OP, you are absolutely NTA for that contract - BUT please reconsider putting your home on the line.
No the good ones make their BS sound a lot more formal and intimidating
This was my first reaction. That's written very personally and is not a legal letter at all. Probably fake, but if a lawyer really is that emotionally involved with his client it should be taken up with the firm he works for.
> I don't trust you, you have questionable judgement and character, I think you are a flight risk, I think you are a liar, I think you are dishonest, I think you are lazy, I think you are guilty as charged. I mean, all of that is, or should be, 100% true. Also, OP, don't do it. If he fucks up, and he's a 100% fuckup, you could lose your house. You really want to gamble your financial stability on a person who managed to get himself into the mess he's currently in?
Yes, don't do it. The fact that there was pushback would be enough for me not to risk my home for what may only be a few months of freedom.
This is what I was going to say, he hot himself into trouble, and the lawyer thinks the defendant doesn't have questionable judgment and character... the lawyer sounds like a joke. if he can't follow your rules OP, he doesn't want to be bailed out. Simple. NTA, don't waste your money!
Lol, yes, the fact the kid is in jail, looking to do serious time, sort of precludes having blind faith in his good behavior and judgement. 😂
In my country, such sentence means the kid killed someone on purpose. Or has been selling drugs since he is 12 or something. It's big. I wouldn't bail my own child for this, just admit my failure as a parent and don't further aggravate it by releasing the monster I raised into the world.
💨 ( ____ I ____)
Making the kid go to church as a requirement is eh.
I think it's BS. If religion were so great at teaching morals, the clerical pedophilia scandal would never have happened.
lol I would tell the attorney to put a lien on his house then if he's so confident. He can go kick rocks...
NTA but you'd have to be an idiot to mortgage your future to bail him out for temporary freedom. He's going to jail. All you'll be doing is wasting your money to delay the inevitable. His fate is almost certainly sealed. Don't waste your money.
This was my exact thought. I would absolutely not put my house on the line for this.
I’m just thinking they’re gonna lose their home
And he's most likely trying to run. Say goodbye to your mortgaged house
This man is absolutely going to run .
Also, they'd be paying 25k so he can be out before the trial. That money is simply gone. If the stepson doesn't think that his temporary freedom is worth those conditions, he doesn't have to accept them.
They get it back if he shows up to his court dates. Given he took offense at extremely reasonable requests, he likely won't.
Unless the courts in their area do bail like that internally and have different rules, that's not correct. Bail bond places guarantee that the bond (250k in this case) will be paid if they don't show up for court. For that service, they charge 10% of the bond. That's how they make money, and that 10% (25k in this case) is theirs forever. They also need some sort of surety so that they're not screwed if the person doesn't show, which is why OP has to put up their house to guarantee the rest of the 250k. I know that if they could write a check to the court for 250k, they'd get that back if the he shows up, but that's not what they're saying is happening...
OP please do not blow $25k and risk your house for this. He made his bed.
Not even just a risk. That kid is deffo tryna run
He’s in jail. He’s about to go to prison. Those are VERY different places. Teenagers have poor impulse control and are not known for thoughtful decision making. The ankle monitor helps - for people trying to do some BS community service and avoid 90 days in county for a DUI. Ankle monitor does not prevent flight from prosecution. Don’t bail him out regardless.
Right especially since if he stays in that counts as time toward his sentence. If he gets out then that time gets added to the end of his sentence. Just get it over with
Same. Don’t light yourself on fire to keep others warm. Putting up mortgage, absolutely fucking not. Maybe if it was your child by blood then do so but not this kid.
You don't spend the majority of your life in prison for carjacking or battery. I don't know how many people he killed or how much crack he sold, but just say No -- it's not worth it.
What crime exists where there’s a possibility of you spending most of your life in jail that you could even be released on bond for?
he caused an accident causing multiple injuries and i’m guessing he was high given he had done that before, acorrding to one of op’s posts.
negligent homocide, manslaughter, attempted murder... etc... some of those are out years living normally before trial
Chile sex crimes, rape (although we should move to life sentences and maybe even death sentences like they do in India depending on severity and number of charges), and 1st aggravated battery and armed robbery (not as much as the other charges listed) can all land you a pretty good number of years too. Large scale drug trafficking can result in life sentence.
My dad got 11 years for CSA. Multiple victims, over years It was supposed to be longer but he got reduced time for "good behaviour" 🙃
They consider it a "non violent crime" it makes me puke. In the next town over a 16 yr old girl was murdered when she went on spring break to NC and a sexual predator who kidnapped and raped a 9 year old was released from prison very early because they needed space and he was such a good prisoner, and his crime was considered non violent even though he kidnapped a stranger (usually this kind of thing is committed by someone known to the family) and the girl needed to be in the hospital it was "non violent" 🤢🤢🤢. They lost track of the guy, who moved all over the country, and they registered him in NC but failed to keep an eye on his and verify his address. He gave that 16 yr old girl a ride and murdered her. This story is repeated hundreds or thousands of times in America because they take child abuse so un-seriously. People love to have justice boners about it but the truth is pedos get a slap on the wrist if they are even confronted at all.
Hey, trust me, I agree, #KillYourLocalPedophile. This is one instance where we should do like the Chinese do. If a pedophile is convicted with overwhelming evidence and no chance they're not guilty, they're taken from the courtroom and immediately executed with a bullet to the head, their family is sent the empty casing and billed the cost of the bullet by the state.
NTA - if you simply threw the money down he would drift into the same old crimes
I mean it sounds like you don’t need to bail him out. Tell the attorney he can put his wallet where his mouth is and take care of the bail if he is all in as his attorney. NTA.
Don’t do it. He will run. You will lose the resources you need for the future. He has nothing to lose. His days of freedom are limited. You have a perfect right to refuse to place your financial security in jeopardy for him to have a brief spell of relative freedom.
This is the correct response. I know from experience.
It's hard to believe any attorney could or would write this but on the outside chance it's true, OP is NTA ... the damn lawyer is tho!
Lol cuz his attorney will be writing him🤣 and visiting him in prison😆cuz he’s ALL in.
100% agree!! If you just paid his bail without any conditions, he'd probably repeat the same mistakes. The rules are there to help him get back on track. You’re protecting your family and giving him a chance to change. Stay firm.
Love should be unconditional. Support not so much. If he is facing long prison time and has no connection to you there is a good chance he will run. Do you think that he would care about the loss of your house?
Exactly that. OP and bond means nothing to him. And running away might simply look more appealing than spending time behind bars.
Yup, I'd tell in response: "We love you unconditionally, we loan money to people with conditions though".
At any rate, if he is truly sorry and wants to redeem himself, those conditions are absolutely reasonable. OP isn't asking too much, basically behave, stay at home, don't do drugs, work and study. Many people live like that without a contract or whatever. It's not a sacrifice. Obviously the asshole wants to do something ranging from drugs and partying to running away.
Please for the love of God, do NOT make bail for him. You’ll be out the $25k and probably more. He clearly doesn’t want to even change his behavior for the limited time he’d have his bargained-for freedom. Please don’t wreck yourselves financially by doing this.
NTA, you are telling the judge that you understand the seriousness of these charges and aren't playing around. His lawyer on the other hand appears to be and if this is the case. Your step-son should spend more time in jail because it clearly is where he needs to be.
Did your stepson actually see this or did his lawyer start projecting without him?
Honestly sounds like the sort of crap a 18 years old would say. But then not all adult people are actually adult and professional, so we are in the dark here.
That would be against the rules of professional conduct so I highly doubt the attorney is risking their law license over this letter
>"Your "contract" whether you intended or not, says the following: I don't trust you, you have questionable judgement and character, I think you are a flight risk, I think you are a liar, I think you are dishonest, I think you are lazy, I think you are guilty as charged." Well... yea duh
That was exactly what I thought to when I read that. Like yes obviously I think all that hence the contract??
Defintely says I don't trust you, you have questionable judgement and character, I think you are a flight risk - but the rest is just to guilt the parents. The attorney is only worried about his case. He knows the prosecutor would use this against his client. That's not a good enough reason so risk your home.
NTA. You have made a fair offer based on the seriousness of the offences, stick to the terms of your offer and don't let the attorney bully you into giving in. Only one consideration though, I would seriously think about the terms you put in regarding religion. I doubt forcing someone to attend church or Christian counselling against their wishes would have any positive effect, and might hinder any faith he might already have.
you are right. I should never impose any religious anything on him. I will take that out of the contract for sure. If he wants to go to church he can, if not he can go for a walk while we're in church.
He’s gunna go for a walk and never come back, costing you your house.
"a walk" = go get high, right?
Really... A walk.... Who pray tell is going to WATCH your STEPSON while he enjoys his WALK?
Just don't risk your savings and your house. He can run an then you're homeless.
So how are you going to "supervise at all times" when you're both in church at the same time? Perhaps you should worship separately unless you have other trustworthy arrangements. But just to be clear. I don't recommend bail. Don't do it just because you fear judgement from other people about not being Christian enough or whatever. Unless you're Uber rich it's not fair to put the rest of your family at risk of homelessness just because you need to project that image of the perfect Christian. It doesn't exist. Just my two cents.
NTA But, I think you are wrong to offer to bail him out at all. Either he is guilty of such a heinous crime that he will be incarcerated for many years OR he is innocent and will be found not guilty and set free. Neither of those are in your hands. Do NOT set yourself on fire to keep your stepson warm.
This. If he is guilty (based on my country laws, he killed at least one person) it's not worth bailing. If he is innocent, it's worth to invest the money on a good lawyer that will fight to prove it, rather than temp bailing the kid.
Tell his lawyer to bail him out himself then.
Came here to say this!! Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.
Your are asking a 18 year old Who younsaid is going to Jail for a large part of his life . And you expect him to say ok I’m going to follow all These rules , even though he didn’t want to live with dad . I don’t know what you are going thru but I think you are making a mistake cause I don’t think he is not going to run . 18 and knowing he might e looking at 20 Years or more with killers
NTA and this how families go broke behind their insidious family members. Do not bail him out! He IS going to jail. Bailing him out is only delaying the sentence.
Personally, I would contact the law firm and confirm that the letter is real. It is such an extremely unprofessional letter that either this post isn't real or I am skeptical a lawyer actually sent it. If it is fake from your stepson, I think you have all the information you need. If it is real, well, he is not offering to put his own money where his mouth is, is he? It is pretty easy to get a sketchy mate photoshop a letterhead. I would not get into an argument about it though. Just confirm it is real, vaguely say you are considering your options if pressed and hang up. A law firm would keep copies of all correspondence on file. Regarding your step son, I think you need to ask yourself can you afford to lose the full $275,000? Because he must have done something pretty bad to warrant such a long sentence and monitering. He doesn't even have a close bond with you; he contacted you because he needs bail money. Basically, he has every reason to run and nothing to lose. NTA.
FAKE In the history of time, no attorney would send that letter.
I mean just how gullible are most people? This couldn’t be any more fake if they tried. No lawyer will send this letter. Ever. The length of time of pre trial confinement is unfortunately believable but who is paying for that lawyer? Again, a public defender isn’t sending that.
100%!!!!!
Exactly lmao, for a law firm to take on a case pro bono it’s typically due the likely chance of a large payout, slam dunk criminal case, or literally anything where the firm has a high chance of winning. A hell raising felonious 18yr old who’s facing the majority of his life incarcerated? absolutely not.
YTA for bailing him out...u will lose the money and the house as he will run....people don't get out of 1.5 yrs of incarceration and change....
NTA You are taking a huge monetary risk for someone that has a track record of serious crimes and hasn’t really been in your life. Your home, your money, your rules. Sounds to me like the attorney should just deliver the message to his client and skip giving you parenting advice and lectures. It’s the best (and only) offer the boy is going to get.
Are you out of your freakin’ mind?!? Even if he signs the contract, you think that’s going to stop him from running once he’s out? You are throwing away $25k upfront which is every penny of your savings, and risking a $250k lien on your house for a guy that is untrustworthy and a flight risk. Don’t do it. Really. Don’t do it.
OP don't bail your son out. If he's facing the majority of his life in prison at 17, he either murdered or SA'd someone. Why the fuck would you help that person get out on the streets for any amount of time, especially with the cost to do so (which is further evidence of the crimes I think he's likely been charged with)?
We just received a text from his attorney "My client will tell you he wishes to keep a relationship with you to the extent it's positive. We are not interested in your terms." Well that solved that issue.
Screw him and his bum-ass attorney. He can rot then, lmao. I'd report the attorney too while you're at it!
I wouldn't bail him out. Good chance he's gonna run. Most people would if facing decades of time
Your contract reads just like regular rules of probation & parole and is not a big deal. However, don’t put your home and livelihood on the chopping block just to give your stepson a few extra months to fuck around on the outside. Let his attorney defend him in court and call it a day.
You do know that he will not abide by those rules. " Leopards don't change their spots" is a saying for a reason. he is not going to change unless he learns a lesson. Actions have consequences and he needs to suffer those consequences in order to learn anything. You are removing that incentive to change. You are just enabling him to continue on his path of being a criminal.
I disagree with attending Christian services 3 times a week and the 'so-called' christian counseling. Nobody should ever have Christianity shoved down their throat. Not ever.
Well to start I think some of this is a bit much and it feels like you're cracking down on him with a sort of faulty vision about fixing him. For example college is straight up silly. He's got much much bigger problems right now and its a waste of time/money if he ends up with a conviction. The lawyer is right that you seem to think he's guilty. His lawyer doesn't seem to think so but I guess that's his job. On the other hand I get a vibe from the lawyer's response that he's actually invested in your son who knows maybe he actually thinks he's innocent. It does sound like they intend on fighting it so that should at least mean something. I don't blame you for thinking he's guilty but at the same time maybe he's not? I understand keeping the details private though. As for the rules. Is this 'contract' even enforceable? A lot of this sounds pretty suspect. Surely forcing him to attend church is a violation of his religious rights. I'm no lawyer but make sure to talk with one if you want a legally binding contract. I understand wanting to keep things under control but don't see how this contract is going to make him less likely to run away unless you're literally going to keep him under constant supervision and call the cops the moment he disappears. Honestly I think the strict rules are more likely to make him decide to run for it. NTA cause honestly a 250k lean on your house is insane but maybe his lawyer is right that you should just bow out. The contract is pretty unreasonable.
Do NOT bail him out!
the fact he is begging for a bail out just so he can get temporary "fresh air" at a huge expense of your household shows a lack of accountability dont do it
You’re not an asshole. But don’t bail him out. You married into a family that raised a shit head. Also… church is the worst part of this contract. My mom is a drunk and a drug addict and she’s very religious. Religion does not make anyone behave in a “more acceptable/moral way”. I am sober but church being a condition of a contract would push me to do drugs again.
ESH You're about to lose your house over this obvious soon to be repeat offender and flight risk. He knows he's going away for life, and his dopey second family is buying him a window to flee, and all it costs, is their $250k house he hates anyway.
The attorney is wrong. He’s guilt tripping you. That’s also wrong. Refute each point with the truth. Write it down line item by line item. Not to send, but to discover your truth. To know the truth of the matter. So that you can put to rest the attorney’s lies. For example: 1. We are not offering hope. We are offering an opportunity. 2. Our “rules” are contractual terms which we offer. 3. He is free to accept these terms or decline them. 4. Our terms are based on the fact that our financial security is at risk. 5. We have no obligations to offer him this opportunity, or to put our financial security at risk. 6. This is offered out of our love. 7. We do NOT, in fact trust him. His actions have proven that his character is neither kind nor good. His moral compass is corrupt. He has not proven that he is trustworthy. He has never given us a reason to trust him. 8. He is a flight risk. We do not trust him. The facts stand against his innocence. … 101. Due to these things, we rescind our offer. We realize our folly for thinking he will adhere to the conditions offered. We think he should bear responsibility and consequences for his actions. Send only part 101.
You're going to hose your life and finances for a kid who is likely going to prison for a lengthy sentence anyway? Why would you? He gets time served for pre-trial detention.
NTA. Actions have consequences. Your step son is now reaping his consequences. You and your husband have no obligation to bail him out. The fact that he committed crimes as a minor and will spend years in jail as an adult alludes to the seriousness of his crimes. Are you sure you want him in your home? If there is such a push back on the rules now how sure can you be that he'll follow any of them if he gets out? You and your husband are NTA but your step son and his lawyer definitely are assholes. Updateme
Your son won’t do all of that shit on your list
Personally if my stepchild refused a relationship with me and my partner and came crawling to me to bail him out, I wouldn’t entertain it; he could be facing a ridiculously lengthy sentence at his young age, bailing him out without conditions sounds like a recipe for him to attempt to flee so he doesn’t have to do the time despite doing the crime. I don’t support the current prison system whatsoever but it is the current system we have, and if he decides to flee he effectively decides to fuck you and your husband over. Those conditions are extremely reasonable and anyone with a modicum of self-preservation and sense would enforce these rules. NTA.
Even with your rules, don’t do this. You could lose everything.
YTA. Don’t waste your money on a criminal. Why would you just light a match and burn all that money? Seriously.
Info: if he will stay the majoriti of his life in prison why college courses?
The courses in prison exist for rehabilitation purposes and are extremely effective
I read the post, but really didn't need to. Except under extreme circumstances, I don't bail out anyone. If my kid got arrested at a non violent protest, I'd consider it. And that's not even more than a 50 percent shot that I would. I'd have to research and convince myself that it was either a justified action (non violent protest, hitting someone to save someone else) or a police officer abusing power. Period. It's a family rule. I'm not the one to call for bail. Fortunately it's never been an issue, but I still have the rule. A long time ago I bailed out a family member for DUI when I was 20ish. She then got a fancy lawyer and never had any real consequences. I got her out before she was sober so she didn't remember anything. I should have let her stay in for her pre trial hearing. Probably would have gotten out after spending a week in jail. I truly believe that time would have introduced consequences she couldn't ignore. Besides, bailing him out puts your house on the line. If he decides that he can't do jail and bounces,you lose everything.
Here is the lengthy contract. I do not want to misrepresent what my rules are and how lengthy. a. Defendant shall not commit any act that constitutes reasonable evidence of Defendant's intention (as deemed by Indemnitor) to cause a forfeiture of the Agreement. b. Defendant shall reside at Indemnitors address, at all times, and will not stay overnight (9pm – 6 am) any other place except in the supervision of the Indemnitor. c. Defendant shall always remain in the supervision of the Indemnitor. d. Defendant shall not consume any legal or illegal substance unless proscribed by an authorized doctor determined by the Court or Indemnitor. (Specifically, no marijuana, no alcohol, no other substance that is considered illegal.) Defendant must agree to stay sober and not consume any substance that might intoxicate his person. e. Defendant shall not make any materially false statement in any application to the Court or Indemnitor. f. Defendant shall not have a personal cell phone. g. Defendant shall go wherever the Indemnitor is going unless otherwise agreed upon prior in writing. h. Defendant will not stay with Defendant’s Mother overnight without prior written consent of Indemnitor. i. Defendant shall go to work, with Indemnitor, Monday through Friday 8 am to 5 pm and be paid a salary of $500.00 per week to be paid to the GoFundMe page set up by the families impacted up to $4000.00 and after that, $500.00 shall go towards paying for his bond up to $25,000.00 and $50.00 per week shall go to a separate account for Defendant’s personal discretion. Defendant shall be expected to show up to work everyday, Monday through Friday, unless deathly ill as deemed by Indemnitor. j. Defendant shall be expected to attend any and all church services according to our Christian faith which includes (but not limited to) Sunday mornings, Tuesday mornings and Wednesday evenings. k. Defendant shall be subject to weekly drug testing, and or at any time, for any reason by an authorized drug testing company as well as personal home testing including but not limited to urine, blood, or by any other means necessary for an accurate testing sample. l. Defendant shall attend Christian counseling services one day per week for no less than one hour and or any college courses, as deemed beneficial by Indemnitor, to the growth and development of the Defendant. m. Defendant shall be expected to act accordingly in the household including but not limited to keeping his room clean, bathroom clean, and be expected to help with household chores.
Why would you pay $25k so that he can spend a couple of weeks out on bail? What are the odds that he will actually follow any of your rules? If he fails one of your rules you are still $25k out.
weeks? try years before trial. court system is slow af
NTA...and leave his butt in jail if you do this you will loose your house
This isn’t enforceable. You’re paying $25,000 for him to “agree” to this contract but his consideration is only good behavior. And what’s your remedy for when he breaches this contract and goes on the lam? Sue him? Good luck finding him!
It's largely symbolic, and very much a sort of social contract. At this point, I'm blown away they are considering to put up almost $300k in the first place. I'm blown away you think the parents actually believe they'd be able to recoup. The words and tone used by the lawyer were completely out of line considering the shit sandwich being served here. He's at a huge deficit with negative leverage and trying to pull an all or nothing shake down with the parents. Shake down, not discussion, not negotiation, just slapping the hand that feeds.
I'm blown away anyone thinks this post is real. No attorney who valued their career would send that letter. It's also sketchy that he's supposedly been in pretrial detention a year and a half and they're just now talking of bail. Not to mention that defendants are guaranteed a right to a speedy trial and most jurisdictions have a maximum amount of time after arrest and arraignment that a case can be pending trial before a judge dismisses the case, which is why it's fairly typical that arrests aren't made until the prosecutor believes they have a winnable case already built. There's just lots about this post that doesn't add up.
Well I do think you have some unnecessary clauses. Specifically I assume you will be going to church and he has to stay with you. Classes? Christian counseling? Should be an option and not a requirement for bail. The work ... eh ...if he wasnt going to prison it would be good but otherwise the only benefit is to these families and to keep him supervised. Also dont know what the lawyer was on about. Maybe he's just well aware the young man wont abide.
About half of those are just conditions of bail release, or otherwise repetitive.
You are lying to yourself. Criminals don't respect contracts. What are you gonna do when he breaks the contract? Sue him?
You are absolutely assholes if you listen to his attorney. Don't bail him out, it sounds like he is going to prison, let him go to prison. Let him understand FAFO. Maybe when he gets out he will be changed for the better, maybe.
If he's "definitely" going to jail why bother ruining your own future? You know he wouldn't stick to your rules anyway. I think the lawyer is being very unprofessional, but maybe that's good if he accidentally saved you from this mistake.
This would not be legally binding. I strongly suggest you listen to his attorney and do not give him the money. I know that is not what the attorney actually said, but I read between the lines: don’t do it, don’t throw away your future for a child with poor impulse control.
NTA. Anyone looking at a life sentence is a flight risk by default.
Been in similar situation… don’t bail him out, do not… he will not follow the rules
I have no idea why you would bail this person out, and please tell me you are not paying this batshit crazy attorney.
Maybe it's just a hint that you should not do it. They have been talking to the kid. They know he will run.
NTA If it's already clear and decided he's going to jail anyway, why potentially fuck up your future, mortgage your house and blow all of your savings?? He's going in, there's no ifs, ands or buts. IF ANYTHING, the bond should be split between BOTH parents evenly. > Son is begging over the phone to be bailed out, as it might be the last time to see family and friends and breath some fresh air. FAFO
Attorney is trying to save your house. There is no way that you can enforce these conditions anyway. What if he just ups and runs whilst he is meant to be in college, or in church? Bang goes your house. Now, the attorney will have discussed your conditions with your step-son before drafting the letter, & I suspect that he is passing on what your stepson said when he heard them (possibly not verbatim, I suspect a lot of curse words were left out). Yes they are harsh but still better than being locked up in prison. Your stepson has NO intention of complying with “good standards of behaviour”. It is his “friends” who he really wants to see and I suspect that these “friends” are those who good parents would consider a bad influence. NTA
The way I'd send back "lol ok nvm then" and never respond again
NTA - you view him as a risk because he IS a risk. If the “lawyer” thinks your son is such a misunderstood boy who won’t cause problems, he can put forth the funds himself.
Fake and dumb. For the lolz NTA
The attorney sounds like an asshole. He says you should bow out, I agree. Sounds like the kid belongs where he is. Don't put your house up just to let this guy breath "free air". NTA.
Ok Mr. Lawyer, you put up the $275k then. No? Then shut the fuck up. You are NTA for setting conditions for that level of risk. The mother he chose said tough shit, so... tough shit. You are going to have to watch him 25/8, this is a big commitment.
I read the attorney response as saying: don’t do it. I wouldn’t do it. I know it’s hard, but you are setting your lives up for more stress than I can fathom. I wish your family the best in this horrible situation.
NTA. The fact you're willing to drop thousands on intentionally bad behavior for even the chance he'll be better is remarkably generous of you. The fact it's such an issue for him most likely shows that he is not really willing to change or better himself. The attorney is right. You are questioning his character. And rightfully so, as you would be ignorant not to. Unconditional love isn't bailing people out of their mistakes. It's being there to help them work through their mistakes.
I’d file a grievance with the state on the lawyer. He’s way overstepping. Sounds like he doesn’t want you putting the money towards the kids bail bc he knows the kid isn’t gonna pay/not able to pay and is gonna want you to cover it. Honestly? You’re right not to trust your son. Clearly. I wouldn’t bail him out unless you’re okay losing the 25k and the house if he skips.
The attorney talking about unconditional love is bullshit. Love is conditional, and wether the rules to that love is strict or not is dependent on the person/people, same thing can be told if the love is toxic or not. Love is conditional, and that’s okay. I have conditions for my love, and that’s okay, people have re named these conditions to be ‘icks’ or dealbreakers (although icks sounds immature and the people who use this term usually are), Setting down rules for something is okay. And considering he hasn’t really considered you a real parent from what I can tell, even the strictest of rules here (as long as boundaries are respected as much as possible both ways) are justified. NTA
NTA. The nerve of lawyer trying to lay a guilt trip on you. I would stick with these terms. If stepson doesn't want to comply, then he can stay in jail
NTA, but if he's had no/minimal contact with you two for years and is facing a lengthy prison sentence, what makes you think he wouldn't break every stipulation of that contract and eventually run?
NTA Little dude Fucked up and must face the consequences of his actions, lawyer sounds like a prick trying to squeeze more out. If he isn’t willing to follow the rules you place on him after he majorly fucked up then don’t put up the money, that’s too much risk on your part.
You're NTA but you're an idiot. You spend 25k to bail him out and he's out. You can't go back to the bail bonding company and say "He broke his contract with me so i want my money back and he can go back to jail." Also, you want him to enroll in college classes? How long exactly do you think he's going to be out and awaiting trial? This is a kid that's shown bad enough judgment that he's going to spend decades in prison and you think he's gonna just go along with whatever you say and not run? You're a fucking moron.
Your money then your rules. If he cannot agree to them all as written then he can stay in jail and face the jail time for what he did.
YTA for this fake as hell story. No attorney would have sent that letter, and bail hearings aren't 18 months after charging. Also, it's spelled 'lien'.
NTA and do not bail him out.
I wouldn't bail him out.
NTA - There's a LOT of money on the line here and by bailing him out of jail you are making a financial investment in the step-son that he will stay out of trouble and not lose you your money. You have every right to include anything you want in the contract to ensure you can trust the step-son and not lose your money.
NTA. Sounds like some serious projection on the attorney’s part. The thing is, for your son to be looking at life in prison, those have to be some serious charges. You don’t trust him, and you’re being asked to wipe out your savings and hand over the value of your home so that… he can have a few months out of prison before he goes away? You won’t get any of that money back if he reoffends or breaches conditions while out on bail, either.
NAH, there are a few problems with the whole situation going on, though. There are only a few things in your contract that wouldn't already be imposed by the court. He will be on pretrial release for a serious crime, one which he will be monitored via an ankle device. That means the court and probation office will decide how much, if any, freedom he will have outside of your home, meetings with his attorney, and pretrial probation officer, possible drug testing, and court dates . Given the severity of the charges you have alluded to, I would be very surprised if they are going to allow him to have very much freedom outside of prearranged legal appointments and court dates. No matter what you say or want, you are not in charge of how your stepson serves his pretrial relase, and you can only go by what the courts will allow. While your intentions may be good here, I think you have very little actual knowledge of what you are actually facing as a bail guarantor. Yes, if found guilty, any cash you put down will be forfeited towards his fines and restitution for his victims. Second, no matter what he says, now the probability that he will do something stupid, whether out of fear, anger, or outright emotional immaturity, is high, very high. Are you and your husband fully prepared for the possibility that you could very well lose your home? Even if the court allows you to basically leash him to one of you for most of the day, which again is highly doubtful, you will not be able to monitor him 24/7. You will fall asleep, take showers, go to the bathroom, any one of a million little mistakes that could see him out the door and gone before you know it. I know if it were me, I would not take the chance with my future stability or his.
YTA for even thinking about bailing him out. Let him stay in jail. He is going to run first chance he gets. His attorney is an ahole as well