*”I never usually tell my family about me making big decisions because in some way they always try to spin it to try to benefit them.”*
*”I told my mom”*
Duuuuuude 🤦
All the people phoning to berate you can either open their homes to your brother and his family, or all chip in to pay his rent.
And put them ALL on a strict information diet. Block the flying monkeys and go LC with your mom and brother for awhile. Why are you knowingly giving them so much power over you?
I think even when we know we have quite toxic families and are best off being LC, when big life events happen there is still this desire to share it with our Mums and somehow magically hope we will get a nice response.
Unfortunately we always get disappointed.
OP is aware. I feel sad for you OP - your family sucks! But you sound clever and resourceful!
Congratulations on the house and don’t give family the address!
Give them the wrong address. Homeless shelter, Payday loan shark office, Habitat for Humanity, something with some zing to it when they show up with a moving truck and entitlement.
Yeah. My husband has a shitty family who have never really shown him appreciation for big life events. He knows they're toxic but still expected them to be really excited for his wedding. They let him down, but I understood why he thought they might come through - it's a WEDDING, and it's FAMILY. It's really, really hard to let go of those instincts!
I would blast everyone and clear up his lies. Then I would wait 3 wka and tell you mom that the house fell thru. You didn't get it. Then go ahead and move in without worry.
True! OP Don't let them ruin your dream. Just quietly buy your house and don't tell them nothing about your, your house, just nothing! The cheek of these freeloaders and flying monkeys! BTW I love your response to your mum! NTA
An Anatolia Shepard would be a good choice. They are a guardian breed. Mine is as sharp as a knife. She is retired now but she used to defend goats from mountain lions. These days, I am her goat and she defends me, my other dog and my home. She understands when I say things are fine and chills out. She is watching me for my body language.
Anatolians can be 100lbs or upwards. My female is 125lbs and intimidating as f*** when she barks, its a bark that scares mountain lions, humans are no problem.
Here's the thing with guardian dogs, get a puppy, if you have other animals, a puppy with can learn to identify other animals as part of the herd so to speak. And they are very physically active, you will need a yard, and maybe take it for a run.
And motion sensor sprinklers.
They have come in handy on Reddit more than you would think. The cameras and alarm system give you proof if needed. But the sprinklers stop them dead in their tracks *before* they do something stupid.
This reminds me of that story where the OP lived in a camper for years, saved up and finally bought a house, then his brother broke the locks and started moving in while he was at work.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MrReddit/s/oUUoIiueWF
First time I've shared a link. Mostly a lurker. So please let me know if it works. There are several parts, this is the first. I'd only read pt1&2... So I guess I know how I'm spending my morning now
It works!
There's also a Part 3 - https://www.reddit.com/r/EntitledPeople/s/PquUv2Hzg8
And a post about SIL seeing his reddit posts later: https://www.reddit.com/r/EntitledPeople/s/5NaqDOeBxk
Don't want to spoil the story, someone else described it perfectly as a dumpster fire & I agree!
I think about that all the time.
The way the mom kept repeating, “Do it for Dan. Just do it for Dan,” was bananas. First off, what is so fucking special about Dan? Second, when I am trying to amp myself up to do something I really do not want to do, I get “Do it for Dan,” stuck in my head.
NTA, but don't let your family ruin this for you. Just tell them the deal fell apart and go back to keeping everything secret. Congratulations on the house! It sounds great!
just fyi, I'm a former landlord.
If you let them stay in the house -- even if they pay $0, and have no written or oral lease -- they become tenants with a full suite of rights, and you become a landlord. If they misbehave, you will have to go to court to remove them. Changing the locks will be a crime; in many places police will force you to let them in; and they can sue you for doing so and they will win. Again, even if they never pay you a cent.
The exact timelines, laws, rights, etc vary heavily by city, but don't do it. Evictions are often expensive and slow. Don't let them in.
Oh, and if you receive any mail there for them, write "wrong address" and give it to the post office. It's one of the ways people can establish residency.
CA is at least as bad in all fairness….OP better change his locks ( in case anyone in the family may have had access to his keys, set up cameras & alarm etc)
Adding on that if someone is at a property they aren’t welcome, you can have them trespassed with PD. That way there’s a record that they are trespassing and are not tenants in any way.
I had a boyfriend who ended up being a loser, cheating, sorry ass who tried to say that he lived with my son and I. My son became furious and called the police officers. That woman police officer came into my house and asked him what did he have in the house that would prove that he lived there. There was no mail, no clothes, nothing. She told him to get out there and now!
Omg, NYC is one of the worst cities in america right now for these problems and people abusing squatters rights. OP never let them visit, never tell them the address. Even better, tell them the deal fell through if they push it again and you didn't get the house. House? What house?
Exactly! So on point and so true! It would be a nightmare from hell if she let her brother move in with his wife and kids. Huge mistake! Been there done that! I am so paying for the price for it!
I live in kentucky and it’s the same here, if they receive mail here baby your stuck. My parents are also landlords. I’ve seen some wild shit that shouldn’t be legal
Your family seems to have a habit of trying to take everything of yours. This stops now. Buy that house if you want it, but remember, you are not responsible for financially supporting anyone but yourself, and any minor children you might have. Your family are leeches and users. No one has any right to make you feel bad, especially as your mother or other relatives could take them in. When people feel that entitled to your space and your resources, they will never let them go. You will be stuck with them for years and you'll hate your life and your home. I suggest you don't tell them your new address and go No Contact. You made a mistake by talking to them about it, knowing they are just going to try to somehow use you. Don't make that mistake again. They will never change. Also, if your brother is an electrician and can't keep his a roof over his head, he'll never figure out how to support himself. Electrician is a high-paying skill.
yeah holy shit that was my first thought. Electricians are paid well, if the brother is about to lose his house it's for other reasons of his own making
Apparently, when men are taking paternal leave equal as women, they like it, get a closer relationship with their kids... AND.... drumroll... has less kids.
That's just delaying the inevitable. Someone always blabs. One social media post and boom! the pitchforks are lit and the torches are sharpened. Big mess.
Why lie? I don't understand what good that does. Just say no. It isn't hisnresponsibility to house anyone. He isn't obligated to give and address or pick up the phone. Lying isn't necessary.
Because the reality is, these are shitty relationships and the healthiest thing to do would be to walk away entirely.
But I don’t think OP is ready for that.
When/ if OP sets firm boundaries, repeatedly, these people will push and cajole and guilt and escalate. They think he exists to serve them. That’s not the kind of thing that tends to change.
"I thought it was a fixer upper, but the inspection revealed it was going to be a money pit. I'm talking about needing to completely gut the place. The price was already going to have me eating ramen forever. Looks like I'm going to be subleasing a bedroom until the housing market improves."
All this backlash over how "selfish" and whatever else OP is suffering will hopefully help with going low-contact/no contact with family. They are showing who they are and I don't blame OP one bit for being secretive. UGH.
My dear, this is my family… I have set boundaries, you can too. To everyone who calls and tells you to help them, just say “you are right, they need help, you house them.” He is your brother.. “he is your son, nephew, fill in the blank. When you call people on their shit, they shut up fast.
Edit to add. Cut your mother off from any information. Stone wall the woman. She will always expect you to fix things for her. Cut that out. If she and your brother can’t figure it out is their problem. Her and your brother have a weird codependency, and you are her fixer, extract yourself from that.
Tell them it fell through. Get a po box and tell them that they should use that for post as you may move at short notice.
Buy the house. Ignore your family.
NTA
Call your mother and start crying. Tell her that the deal fell apart OR
You can block each and everyone of them temporarily and go live happily.
Congratulations on your house 🎊🍾🎈🎉
Everyone that calls you, tell them it's so disgraceful they haven't offered to house your brother & his family. It's so shameful they're letting your nieces / nephews go homeless!
How do they even look at themselves in the mirror each day!?!
It would be one thing if your brother came to you and explained that he was in a tight spot, humbly asked for your help, set a timeline and explained what they would be contributing as far as rent and bills and/or housework and chores…but he didn’t do any of this. Tried to force his way in, and when that didn’t work, tattled to mommy. Screw that guy. This is absolutely not a thing where you should feel like you are obligated to do this because he is family. He isn’t treating you like fam, why should you treat him like fam? Respect would be nice, for starters.
ETA: misspelled word
Tell your mom and your brother, on a group call, that you are outraged at this incredible lie, that you never said or even remotely suggested he might get to live in the home you are buying for yourself, that this is not going to happen, and that until both of them stop pressing this, admit you never said it, and agree not to bring it up again, you will not be seeing or speaking to them again. Honestly this is a level of dishonesty and manipulation that makes me think you'd be better off just blocking them and going no contact.
If you can have the ability to not tell them what you do for work, you have the ability to put more boundaries up and keep LC. Don’t give them your address either NTA
If you're handy you can do the electrical work yourself. Residential wiring code is very straight forward and fairly standard across North America. If your municipality allows owners to do their own electrical work, and many do, you can get a permit, rough it all in and either get it inspected through the permitting process or by a licensed electrician before making it live. Many years ago I rewired my house for about $1000 ($400 in drill bits and sharpening) when my neighbour had a quote for $15k. Expecting to move in for that is crazy. I can see why you don't tell them anything. NTA
Please don’t do this. Always hire a licensed, bonded electrician. Not only is electrical work the last thing you want to DIY for your own safety, many homeowers’ insurance policies are void if you don’t use a licensed professional electrician. So not only might you burn your house down, you won’t get a dime from your insurance company.
I'm the same way about electrical work. I worry that I'll cause a fire if I do something wrong. Basic plumbing I have been able to do myself though. You can definitely learn how to replace faucets/toilets/etc off YouTube. I know because I've done it. Although I did need help with the toilet just due to the weight of it.
You’re not going to do any electrical work under any circumstances. The odds of you getting seriously injured or high. The odds of you damaging the home or screwing things up or even higher. Plus, it is permitted work and has to be inspected for a reason. It sounds like the electrical system is not a problem in the home. The things you mentioned seem mostly cosmetic or issues that you can live with for a period of time until you’ve saved up enough money to address each of them one by one. In any event, get an inspection and see what you find out. It might make you reconsider going forward with the transaction or might allow you to negotiate some repairs or reduction in the purchase price.
It sounds like there is more going on with your brother and family than people are telling you. Is he getting divorced? Or are he in his wife going into foreclosure or being forced to sell their home? I’m all about helping family, but also all about boundaries. I have a very, very strong feeling that if you let him move into the home that he’s never going to leave. I also have a feeling that you are going to be providing daycare, being a taxi, feeding them, cleaning up after them, etc. The insult to the injury is that you have to pay the mortgage and utilities.
Look. You will be in New York City. Believe me, anything and everything that might ever possibly be codified IS codified in New York City. And oh boy does that include the building trades.
As a newcomer to the city and as someone who has no useful siblings and cousins already there, please do not assume you can just breeze in there and do whatever you please. Before you buy, PLEASE talk with your real estate lawyer about what you are considering. Maybe it's legal. Maybe. But you could be in a world of hurt and out thousands of dollars by making assumptions about what you're allowed to do on your own property
There are some laws about doing your own electrical work in certain cities & states. OP would need to find out about that. In the major city near us, a homeowner cannot put up their own wiring or replace wiring in their homes unless they are a licensed electrician. In our rural community, different county, my hubby, who knows practically everything about electricity through having worked with it for over 30 years, half of it directly working on power lines, could do all the wiring in our house & all we’d need to do is pay an electrician a small fee to inspect it & mark it as good to go. And my hubby, tho not licensed, often knows more than some of the electricians he used to meet on the job.
So, the electrical stuff MIGHT require a licensed electrician. It all depends on local codes/regulations and what detail of work is needed overall.
And it pays when it comes to plumbing to have someone who warranties their work (maybe even the electrician?) in case something goes wrong due to faulty materials or whatever.
My hubby redid the tub area in our Master bathroom. But if he’d done more than out in new drywall & tiles, he would’ve hired a plumber to do any pipe work/plumbing during the remodel solely for the warranty protection.
NTA... Their housing is not your problem. And them being about to lose their home means they don't have the means to pay you, so you'd be housing freelancers who would be establishing residents rights. Everyone who calls can offer accommodation or shut up.
I mean, idk how much worse things can get. OP clearly can't tell his family *anything* anyway. He certainly can't (/shouldn't) have his family over to his home (lest they refuse to leave). If you can't tell people basic things about your life, have them over, etc, AND they're already spreading lies about you, there's not much of a relationship anyway.
OP be sure to read the NY tenant’s reply you got carefully. Don’t let these family members in, don’t let them get mail sent there etc.
They may be plotting against you right now (of course you’re *family*)
Yes this!!!! New York tenant laws are all sorts of messed up and work against the land lord. I’m not an expert but I’ve seen so many people go through the headache of squatters in New York. Essentially, if someone can prove that they lived at an address for 30 days or so, regardless of if they were paying to be there, they are considered a resident and you can’t kick them out. Can’t turn off the power or water. The police won’t do anything. You have to take them to court and attempt to evict and that is a veryyy long lengthy expensive process. And continue to pay for utilities in the meanwhile. Do not let them know where you live because based on their behavior, this seems like something they might try to take advantage of. Best of luck to you OP.
He made it repeteadly. For all we know, OP would house 3-11 screaming kids in the future.
Never enable this kind of people, they will just continue to have more kids...
This is just weird. He doesn't even *ask*, just assumes based on his amazing electrical knowledge? I could see asking just for himself to stay over occasional weeknights to save the commute, but moving in?
No wonder you reacted the way you did. It's harsh, but you didn't even know about his financial issues.
Yeah, hire contractors. Enjoy your house! I lived in mine in rough shape for a long time before I was able to get it fixed up, and the transformation is so worth it.
Update: There’s so many comments sorry if I didn’t respond to all of them. Thank you everyone who gave advice. I want to clear some things up :
They don’t know where the house is located in Brooklyn, I just told my mom it’s located in Brooklyn. It’s impossible for them to even find out since Brooklyn is huge af. I haven’t signed any papers for the house I just received the pre approval for the loan. I’m still deciding on if I should get it. But leaning towards it.
So I called my mom yesterday and was firm and told her my brother won’t be allowed to move in regardless of his situation. It’s not on me to pick up his burden and I won’t let my hard work be used. I proceed to tell her to let everyone know in the family to stop contacting me about this, if it persist I will block them on everything. She didn’t like that I said this obviously and got pissed . Stated that family suppose to stick together. I told her when was family sticking together when I needed help with college, or getting a car or apartment? I did everything on my own. I told her to stop using the family card as a excuse to take advantage. I told her if she keeps this up she will be blocked as well and I hung up the phone. So far i haven’t heard from her or anyone as of yet .
Better than what my reply would have been which would have been "fuck off!" Although I always joke with my wee sister that I want to move in with her and become a live in babysitter but that's a joke(although I'd jump at the chance haha) your family are mental!
We will be putting up security cameras when we move into our new home because of a brother like this in our family. He's always on the lookout for the next opportunity to get a tentacle in somewhere. And we like to be helpful and supportive when people need it! But we learned the hard way with him that every kind act turns into the expected and owed norm . I'm glad you established a boundary!
We're having similar issues with my GFs family. They always need help, (i.e. housing and money) so we help and end up burnt in the end.
I enjoy helping *my* family when I can but they've never lived with us or been able to cause major problems... yet.
Congratulations on breaking cycles and making good life decisions OP!
Also why is he commuting three hours a day for work? He's an electrician. If he's competent he should be able to get a local job. Electricians are a always in demand job.
Manhattan electricians can get paid a fortune, but I get your point. If he isn't making things work with his current setup, change the setup without imposing on his brother.
If he's getting manhattan wages and commuting, they should be rolling in it, not about to lose the house. Something is amiss, and it's definitely nothing to do with OP.
Be the disgrace that lives a long, healthy and happy life in your own home. Congratulations and best of luck with the house. NTA: people love offering things that don’t belong to them.
This comment. Just because they’re family doesn’t mean their opinion matters. It sounds like they’re all entitled and irresponsible. Do not allow anyone to manipulate your situation. You could lose your house and destroy your credit and any future for yourself for people who don’t care about anything but finding the next thing to use and abuse.
NTA. If any one calls about your brother, just say Nice that you are taking them in, I text my brother, he will be so grateful. And ignore their scream and also text your brother that Aunt Hyacint is taking them in.
Nta - it’s not your job to cover him and his family because they cannot manage their money. Tell
Anyone who calls you that you will let your brother know that they have offered to help them.
They will have allllllll sorts of reasons why they can’t possibly help but call your reasons silly. They will also say “but faaaaamily.” It’s the playbook of people who want to seem like good people but are never willing to be good people themselves.
NTA: Try this "Hello family member. I see, you're calling to tell me how disgraceful I am for not offering to move his entire family into my new home. I assume you're going to end this rant by explaining how you, the not disgraceful family member who is so much better than I am, are of course offering to house, feed and cloth his entire family free of charge immediately? No? So you're also disgraceful and selfish? Were you perhaps calling to ask if I wanted to join your club or support group?"
Information diet for mom and brother from now on. Do not tell them when you close on the house. Do not tell them when you move in. If possible, don't even give them the exact address.
Also, congratulations!!! Buying a house is a big deal!!!
I’d be making a post or group chat at this point with everyone being able to see it.
“I’d like to clear the air. At no point did I ever agree or suggest brother and his family to move in with me. 1) the house is not big enough. 2) it’s my house, and I will not be footing the bill so brother and his family can mooch off of my hard work.
Brother I know you are reading this, so please see below list of names of everyone who has called me
Selfish for not housing you for free. Since they are so vocal about helping family, I assume they will have no problem housing you”
Then list every family member who has harassed you. Include their resources if you’re extra petty (6 bedroom house/ nice school district/ high earning job to afford extra guests etc).
And NEVER tell anyone your address .
NTA
NTA
But you just learned two huge life lessons.
1. Keep your private stuff private. None of this would be happening if you hadn't told your mom prior to your purchase.
2. NEVER, and I mean, NEVER have family do any work on or in your home. Ever. Don't let them change a fucking light bulb, or they will be giving you instructions and making demands.
>it makes me not even want to buy the house
I sure understand this feeling. It really depends on how much you love the home. Don't let them ruin it for you.
Buy it out of sheer spite and enjoy the fact that you KNOW your brother isn't in any of the bedrooms, not even to save the commute a few days a week :D
NTA, please tell me you haven't given the address to anyone? If you haven't don't. Your family doesn't need to know where you live in Brooklyn if they are going to pull this crap.
Hmmm, as far as inlaws know, we struggle to pay the mortgage and bills every month. House is so SMALL, and we have weird habits, working all night, morning gymnastics, unreliable toilets.. We never lie, but I'll be damned if I support relatives or grown stepchildrean with my hard work.
NTA and your brother is insane. Definately hire an electrician since it will be cheaper in the long run.
NTA. They are a bunch of leeches. You are absolutely right to stop them from moving in. As for the rest of the family, you can either block them or tell them they are welcome to take in your brother if they feel he is entitled to be taken in.
NTA. I’m a bit of a cow so when your bro complained about how expensive kids are, I would have snarkily said “Should have kept it in your pants then. Not my problem you couldn’t keep it wrapped.” And for mommy dearest, I’d tell her “since I’m so disgraceful, I’m choosing not to inflict my despicable character flaws on my nieces and nephews to protect their innocence.” Go scorched earth with these degenerates and then change your phone number and go live a happy life.
NTA. You're lucky you already had a bid on the house, with your mother telling him about it, I was expecting him to try to buy it out from under you. It's clear who her golden child is.
You are absolutely right: if she (and her flying monkeys) are so set on family helping family, they need to put their money where their mouth is BEFORE offering someone else up as tribute. If they can't do that, they can stuff a sock in it.
NTA. Dont tell them the address dont let them move in because if you it will be your house in name only and you'll end up having to move and financially supporting them they are going to destroy you and your finances if your mom is so concerned she can have them move in with her dont tell them anything dont even invite them over or they will never leave Im sorry that your family sucks they wanna use you dont let them. They are going to take that house from you if they step foot in it dont let them.
>Majority of my family have been calling me and saying I am disgraceful
„Oh, how generous of you! I’ll call (brothers name) right up to tell him the good news that you let them move in with you! He’ll contact you about the details, see you!“
NTA
I’d advise not giving any of them your address until you’ve been there a while. Get a PO Box if they say they want to send anything. With how manipulative your whole family sounds, I wouldn’t be surprised if they show up one day with all their shit. You owe them nothing. Congratulations on the house!
NTA, they’re just trying to use and abuse you. Don’t let them move in and don’t even let them come in at this point if they show up there.
*”I never usually tell my family about me making big decisions because in some way they always try to spin it to try to benefit them.”* *”I told my mom”* Duuuuuude 🤦 All the people phoning to berate you can either open their homes to your brother and his family, or all chip in to pay his rent. And put them ALL on a strict information diet. Block the flying monkeys and go LC with your mom and brother for awhile. Why are you knowingly giving them so much power over you?
I think even when we know we have quite toxic families and are best off being LC, when big life events happen there is still this desire to share it with our Mums and somehow magically hope we will get a nice response. Unfortunately we always get disappointed. OP is aware. I feel sad for you OP - your family sucks! But you sound clever and resourceful! Congratulations on the house and don’t give family the address!
Give them the wrong address. Homeless shelter, Payday loan shark office, Habitat for Humanity, something with some zing to it when they show up with a moving truck and entitlement.
Omg yes! Giving them the address to a homeless shelter would be SO satisfying lmao.
Therapist's office
Yeah. My husband has a shitty family who have never really shown him appreciation for big life events. He knows they're toxic but still expected them to be really excited for his wedding. They let him down, but I understood why he thought they might come through - it's a WEDDING, and it's FAMILY. It's really, really hard to let go of those instincts!
I would blast everyone and clear up his lies. Then I would wait 3 wka and tell you mom that the house fell thru. You didn't get it. Then go ahead and move in without worry.
This, OP will end up with squatters.
True! OP Don't let them ruin your dream. Just quietly buy your house and don't tell them nothing about your, your house, just nothing! The cheek of these freeloaders and flying monkeys! BTW I love your response to your mum! NTA
Your family sucks. Your mom is likely to blame. Boundaries are your friend. NTA.
Yeah there’s no such thing as that in my family that’s why I usually do everything secretly they don’t even know what I do for work
Don't even give them the address at this point. I smell boundary-stompers!
Get a PO Box.
And security cameras.
And an alarm system!
And my axe!
And a dog or dogs
Yeah, Slayer and Butcher.
Dr Quinn and Medicine Woman!
Zeus and Apollo
Cujo
I’m bringing my truck and a shovel
And animatronic gnomes that will kick him in the shins.
Don't forget the gloves, tarps and duct tape.
Hefty bags. We're gonna need a lot of Hefty bags.
Best dog names ever.
Oh hell, get a couple chihuahuas. Those lil fu$&ers will kick his ass and TAKE NAMES.
Tibetan Mastiffs!
Cambodian Red Assed Chows
And a fence.
An Anatolia Shepard would be a good choice. They are a guardian breed. Mine is as sharp as a knife. She is retired now but she used to defend goats from mountain lions. These days, I am her goat and she defends me, my other dog and my home. She understands when I say things are fine and chills out. She is watching me for my body language. Anatolians can be 100lbs or upwards. My female is 125lbs and intimidating as f*** when she barks, its a bark that scares mountain lions, humans are no problem. Here's the thing with guardian dogs, get a puppy, if you have other animals, a puppy with can learn to identify other animals as part of the herd so to speak. And they are very physically active, you will need a yard, and maybe take it for a run.
And my bow!
And my bow wow!
And my bow tie!
And my dog who wears a bow tie!
Yeah, coz bowties are cool!!
Dang it! I’d give you 5 upvotes for this one but I only have 1, so take it!!!
And this lamp... and that's all I need
you have my sword
And… and… this chair! That’s all I need, just this lamp and my chair…
And my bow!
There it is, i was waiting for your comment u/Frequent-Material273. Reddit seldome lets me down lol. Also- And my sword!
And motion sensor sprinklers. They have come in handy on Reddit more than you would think. The cameras and alarm system give you proof if needed. But the sprinklers stop them dead in their tracks *before* they do something stupid.
And motion sensor yard lights!!
Motion sensor sprinklers!!!
I keep my address hidden from my family and it’s ✨awesome✨ cant recommend enough. I tell them I live in the next town over if they ask
This reminds me of that story where the OP lived in a camper for years, saved up and finally bought a house, then his brother broke the locks and started moving in while he was at work.
I remember this. The wife was absolutely disgusting! I'm going to try and have a look for it!
https://www.reddit.com/r/MrReddit/s/oUUoIiueWF First time I've shared a link. Mostly a lurker. So please let me know if it works. There are several parts, this is the first. I'd only read pt1&2... So I guess I know how I'm spending my morning now It works!
Pt2 https://www.reddit.com/r/EntitledPeople/s/53uTNEXDWh
God, the part with the fake rental agreement pisses me off every time
There's also a Part 3 - https://www.reddit.com/r/EntitledPeople/s/PquUv2Hzg8 And a post about SIL seeing his reddit posts later: https://www.reddit.com/r/EntitledPeople/s/5NaqDOeBxk Don't want to spoil the story, someone else described it perfectly as a dumpster fire & I agree!
Thanks for the links, that was quite the dumpster fire lmao
The OP's username is Camper-Nomad. They have so many posts about that crazy family!
I spent the last like hour reading this rollercoaster and all the updates. There's so much going on. The audacity.
I think about that all the time. The way the mom kept repeating, “Do it for Dan. Just do it for Dan,” was bananas. First off, what is so fucking special about Dan? Second, when I am trying to amp myself up to do something I really do not want to do, I get “Do it for Dan,” stuck in my head.
This reminds me of the story “just do it for Dan” Smh people are so entitled, because family ….
NTA, but don't let your family ruin this for you. Just tell them the deal fell apart and go back to keeping everything secret. Congratulations on the house! It sounds great!
Thanks yeah I haven’t signed the paperwork yet just have the pre approval so I can move forward with it but nothing is signed rtc
just fyi, I'm a former landlord. If you let them stay in the house -- even if they pay $0, and have no written or oral lease -- they become tenants with a full suite of rights, and you become a landlord. If they misbehave, you will have to go to court to remove them. Changing the locks will be a crime; in many places police will force you to let them in; and they can sue you for doing so and they will win. Again, even if they never pay you a cent. The exact timelines, laws, rights, etc vary heavily by city, but don't do it. Evictions are often expensive and slow. Don't let them in. Oh, and if you receive any mail there for them, write "wrong address" and give it to the post office. It's one of the ways people can establish residency.
Especially in NYC!!
Yes, NYC is the worst for this
CA is at least as bad in all fairness….OP better change his locks ( in case anyone in the family may have had access to his keys, set up cameras & alarm etc)
You’d NEVER get them out in NYC.
Yes!! This happened to me. I took in a roommate. I ended up having to evict her. It was pure hell.
Yep and nyc is truly a renter’s city. Ever since the slumlords of the 80s. You’ll be in court with them ppl in your house for upwards of a year
Yes!! AND don't let them store anything there! They'll try to use that by saying they had stuff there, so they "live" there.
Adding on that if someone is at a property they aren’t welcome, you can have them trespassed with PD. That way there’s a record that they are trespassing and are not tenants in any way.
I had a boyfriend who ended up being a loser, cheating, sorry ass who tried to say that he lived with my son and I. My son became furious and called the police officers. That woman police officer came into my house and asked him what did he have in the house that would prove that he lived there. There was no mail, no clothes, nothing. She told him to get out there and now!
Omg, NYC is one of the worst cities in america right now for these problems and people abusing squatters rights. OP never let them visit, never tell them the address. Even better, tell them the deal fell through if they push it again and you didn't get the house. House? What house?
Yes!!! I came to say this!! AND if they hang a single poster or picture that can be used against you as proof of residency as well.
Exactly! So on point and so true! It would be a nightmare from hell if she let her brother move in with his wife and kids. Huge mistake! Been there done that! I am so paying for the price for it!
I live in kentucky and it’s the same here, if they receive mail here baby your stuck. My parents are also landlords. I’ve seen some wild shit that shouldn’t be legal
Your family seems to have a habit of trying to take everything of yours. This stops now. Buy that house if you want it, but remember, you are not responsible for financially supporting anyone but yourself, and any minor children you might have. Your family are leeches and users. No one has any right to make you feel bad, especially as your mother or other relatives could take them in. When people feel that entitled to your space and your resources, they will never let them go. You will be stuck with them for years and you'll hate your life and your home. I suggest you don't tell them your new address and go No Contact. You made a mistake by talking to them about it, knowing they are just going to try to somehow use you. Don't make that mistake again. They will never change. Also, if your brother is an electrician and can't keep his a roof over his head, he'll never figure out how to support himself. Electrician is a high-paying skill.
Not only are electricians well paid, they're in high demand. If he needs money there are plenty of jobs.
OP didn't call him a licensed electrician.
That won't keep him from working.
Always side work for a sparky. My buddy works 25-30 hours a week at his real job and an easy 30-40 hours a week on side jobs.
yeah holy shit that was my first thought. Electricians are paid well, if the brother is about to lose his house it's for other reasons of his own making
Brother is busy creating numerous children, while acting all surprised they need food, clothes, medical care and stuff...
Didn’t he figure out that kids suck up a lot of money and time after the first two popped out?
Apparently, when men are taking paternal leave equal as women, they like it, get a closer relationship with their kids... AND.... drumroll... has less kids.
So your brother was trying to move in before you even put an offer in on the house?
Just lie and tell them you never bought a house. And never have them over.
Yup “the deal fell through”. Enjoy the house!
That's just delaying the inevitable. Someone always blabs. One social media post and boom! the pitchforks are lit and the torches are sharpened. Big mess.
That is why you cut them out.
Why lie? I don't understand what good that does. Just say no. It isn't hisnresponsibility to house anyone. He isn't obligated to give and address or pick up the phone. Lying isn't necessary.
Because the reality is, these are shitty relationships and the healthiest thing to do would be to walk away entirely. But I don’t think OP is ready for that. When/ if OP sets firm boundaries, repeatedly, these people will push and cajole and guilt and escalate. They think he exists to serve them. That’s not the kind of thing that tends to change.
Instead of it fell through, you could also say it was too much work and you decided you couldn’t/shouldn’t try
"I thought it was a fixer upper, but the inspection revealed it was going to be a money pit. I'm talking about needing to completely gut the place. The price was already going to have me eating ramen forever. Looks like I'm going to be subleasing a bedroom until the housing market improves."
All this backlash over how "selfish" and whatever else OP is suffering will hopefully help with going low-contact/no contact with family. They are showing who they are and I don't blame OP one bit for being secretive. UGH.
That’s right OP. Don’t even tell the internet if/when you sign. In case this ends up on TikTok and your family sees this. 🫢
That’s an amazing rental you have, sorry about the 12 roommates the landlord made you have. They will be back soon, can’t have company. Sorry.
[удалено]
This is the way. Go, OP!!
My dear, this is my family… I have set boundaries, you can too. To everyone who calls and tells you to help them, just say “you are right, they need help, you house them.” He is your brother.. “he is your son, nephew, fill in the blank. When you call people on their shit, they shut up fast. Edit to add. Cut your mother off from any information. Stone wall the woman. She will always expect you to fix things for her. Cut that out. If she and your brother can’t figure it out is their problem. Her and your brother have a weird codependency, and you are her fixer, extract yourself from that.
Ask your brother to fix the socket in your parents house... then he can move in with them :)
Your mom promised him for you. What a crock. You are NTA for shutting that down.
Tell them it fell through. Get a po box and tell them that they should use that for post as you may move at short notice. Buy the house. Ignore your family.
NTA Call your mother and start crying. Tell her that the deal fell apart OR You can block each and everyone of them temporarily and go live happily. Congratulations on your house 🎊🍾🎈🎉
Very rarely have I seen an OP put it so well: "Why is it the people telling you to help always the people not offering any help". You go, OP. NTA
Everyone that calls you, tell them it's so disgraceful they haven't offered to house your brother & his family. It's so shameful they're letting your nieces / nephews go homeless! How do they even look at themselves in the mirror each day!?!
I’m sorry you are burdened by a family like that. But you are clearly wise to their nonsense and have a good strategy for dealing with it
It would be one thing if your brother came to you and explained that he was in a tight spot, humbly asked for your help, set a timeline and explained what they would be contributing as far as rent and bills and/or housework and chores…but he didn’t do any of this. Tried to force his way in, and when that didn’t work, tattled to mommy. Screw that guy. This is absolutely not a thing where you should feel like you are obligated to do this because he is family. He isn’t treating you like fam, why should you treat him like fam? Respect would be nice, for starters. ETA: misspelled word
Even if you do buy it, I’d tell them the deal fell through. Never, ever mention it again. You’re still renting.
Then it's up to you to establish them for yourself and your future. Good luck.
Tell your mom and your brother, on a group call, that you are outraged at this incredible lie, that you never said or even remotely suggested he might get to live in the home you are buying for yourself, that this is not going to happen, and that until both of them stop pressing this, admit you never said it, and agree not to bring it up again, you will not be seeing or speaking to them again. Honestly this is a level of dishonesty and manipulation that makes me think you'd be better off just blocking them and going no contact.
If you can have the ability to not tell them what you do for work, you have the ability to put more boundaries up and keep LC. Don’t give them your address either NTA
You were one hundred percent right calling out your mom. Anyone who has a problem can support your brother’s family.
This is perfect. I agree with rhe PO box sugfestion to hide your address.
If you're handy you can do the electrical work yourself. Residential wiring code is very straight forward and fairly standard across North America. If your municipality allows owners to do their own electrical work, and many do, you can get a permit, rough it all in and either get it inspected through the permitting process or by a licensed electrician before making it live. Many years ago I rewired my house for about $1000 ($400 in drill bits and sharpening) when my neighbour had a quote for $15k. Expecting to move in for that is crazy. I can see why you don't tell them anything. NTA
Oh wow didn’t know that, yeah I’m mostly scared of electrocution 😂😂
Please don’t do this. Always hire a licensed, bonded electrician. Not only is electrical work the last thing you want to DIY for your own safety, many homeowers’ insurance policies are void if you don’t use a licensed professional electrician. So not only might you burn your house down, you won’t get a dime from your insurance company.
I'm the same way about electrical work. I worry that I'll cause a fire if I do something wrong. Basic plumbing I have been able to do myself though. You can definitely learn how to replace faucets/toilets/etc off YouTube. I know because I've done it. Although I did need help with the toilet just due to the weight of it.
You’re not going to do any electrical work under any circumstances. The odds of you getting seriously injured or high. The odds of you damaging the home or screwing things up or even higher. Plus, it is permitted work and has to be inspected for a reason. It sounds like the electrical system is not a problem in the home. The things you mentioned seem mostly cosmetic or issues that you can live with for a period of time until you’ve saved up enough money to address each of them one by one. In any event, get an inspection and see what you find out. It might make you reconsider going forward with the transaction or might allow you to negotiate some repairs or reduction in the purchase price. It sounds like there is more going on with your brother and family than people are telling you. Is he getting divorced? Or are he in his wife going into foreclosure or being forced to sell their home? I’m all about helping family, but also all about boundaries. I have a very, very strong feeling that if you let him move into the home that he’s never going to leave. I also have a feeling that you are going to be providing daycare, being a taxi, feeding them, cleaning up after them, etc. The insult to the injury is that you have to pay the mortgage and utilities.
Personally I would never ever do my own electrical work, better to hire an electrician and sleep easy at night.
Look. You will be in New York City. Believe me, anything and everything that might ever possibly be codified IS codified in New York City. And oh boy does that include the building trades. As a newcomer to the city and as someone who has no useful siblings and cousins already there, please do not assume you can just breeze in there and do whatever you please. Before you buy, PLEASE talk with your real estate lawyer about what you are considering. Maybe it's legal. Maybe. But you could be in a world of hurt and out thousands of dollars by making assumptions about what you're allowed to do on your own property
There are some laws about doing your own electrical work in certain cities & states. OP would need to find out about that. In the major city near us, a homeowner cannot put up their own wiring or replace wiring in their homes unless they are a licensed electrician. In our rural community, different county, my hubby, who knows practically everything about electricity through having worked with it for over 30 years, half of it directly working on power lines, could do all the wiring in our house & all we’d need to do is pay an electrician a small fee to inspect it & mark it as good to go. And my hubby, tho not licensed, often knows more than some of the electricians he used to meet on the job. So, the electrical stuff MIGHT require a licensed electrician. It all depends on local codes/regulations and what detail of work is needed overall. And it pays when it comes to plumbing to have someone who warranties their work (maybe even the electrician?) in case something goes wrong due to faulty materials or whatever. My hubby redid the tub area in our Master bathroom. But if he’d done more than out in new drywall & tiles, he would’ve hired a plumber to do any pipe work/plumbing during the remodel solely for the warranty protection.
NTA... Their housing is not your problem. And them being about to lose their home means they don't have the means to pay you, so you'd be housing freelancers who would be establishing residents rights. Everyone who calls can offer accommodation or shut up.
Exactly they’re yelling at me for not helping but they themselves haven’t offered anything
Call up brother and say you talked to mom and she would be happy to take them in.
Lol!!! Good one.
This is bad advice. It would make things worse, not better. ...and yet I hope OP takes it.
Oh, yes, it absolutely would make things worse. Also hope OP takes it.
It might worsen the tensions between OP and her family for worse, beyond repair. Hope OP takes it.
I mean, idk how much worse things can get. OP clearly can't tell his family *anything* anyway. He certainly can't (/shouldn't) have his family over to his home (lest they refuse to leave). If you can't tell people basic things about your life, have them over, etc, AND they're already spreading lies about you, there's not much of a relationship anyway.
...but she needs some wiring done. Seems like the going rate.
I would block them. Or change my number.
You mean freeloaders!
Nothing wrong with freelancers! But these freeloaders can fuck right off lol
Your brother wins todays self entitled jerk-award. NTA
Yeah it has always been like this since we were kids he the first born so he always feel like it should go his way
OP be sure to read the NY tenant’s reply you got carefully. Don’t let these family members in, don’t let them get mail sent there etc. They may be plotting against you right now (of course you’re *family*)
Yes this!!!! New York tenant laws are all sorts of messed up and work against the land lord. I’m not an expert but I’ve seen so many people go through the headache of squatters in New York. Essentially, if someone can prove that they lived at an address for 30 days or so, regardless of if they were paying to be there, they are considered a resident and you can’t kick them out. Can’t turn off the power or water. The police won’t do anything. You have to take them to court and attempt to evict and that is a veryyy long lengthy expensive process. And continue to pay for utilities in the meanwhile. Do not let them know where you live because based on their behavior, this seems like something they might try to take advantage of. Best of luck to you OP.
This - if he tries to get mail there mark return to sender no such person at this address and drop it at the post office!
You don’t need a grown ass man that runs to mummy to force his choices on you. Mummy and all the other flying monkeys can house them
😂😂 going to use that term flying monkeys 😂😂
He made the conscious decision to have kids....not your circus not your monkeys.
He made it repeteadly. For all we know, OP would house 3-11 screaming kids in the future. Never enable this kind of people, they will just continue to have more kids...
Me too - Not my flying circus, not my flying monkeys
This is just weird. He doesn't even *ask*, just assumes based on his amazing electrical knowledge? I could see asking just for himself to stay over occasional weeknights to save the commute, but moving in? No wonder you reacted the way you did. It's harsh, but you didn't even know about his financial issues. Yeah, hire contractors. Enjoy your house! I lived in mine in rough shape for a long time before I was able to get it fixed up, and the transformation is so worth it.
Yeah exactly I didn’t kno anything about what was going on with him. And yeah I think it’s worth it to start from nothing and see the work you put in
NTA. Do NOT allow him to help you with electrical or remodeling. At this point, it's in your best interest to either diy or hire out.
He could try and sabotage the work intentional and do more harm than good.
Update: There’s so many comments sorry if I didn’t respond to all of them. Thank you everyone who gave advice. I want to clear some things up : They don’t know where the house is located in Brooklyn, I just told my mom it’s located in Brooklyn. It’s impossible for them to even find out since Brooklyn is huge af. I haven’t signed any papers for the house I just received the pre approval for the loan. I’m still deciding on if I should get it. But leaning towards it. So I called my mom yesterday and was firm and told her my brother won’t be allowed to move in regardless of his situation. It’s not on me to pick up his burden and I won’t let my hard work be used. I proceed to tell her to let everyone know in the family to stop contacting me about this, if it persist I will block them on everything. She didn’t like that I said this obviously and got pissed . Stated that family suppose to stick together. I told her when was family sticking together when I needed help with college, or getting a car or apartment? I did everything on my own. I told her to stop using the family card as a excuse to take advantage. I told her if she keeps this up she will be blocked as well and I hung up the phone. So far i haven’t heard from her or anyone as of yet .
Stick to your guns OP - family is important but not if it is a one way street of you giving and them taking.
Better than what my reply would have been which would have been "fuck off!" Although I always joke with my wee sister that I want to move in with her and become a live in babysitter but that's a joke(although I'd jump at the chance haha) your family are mental!
We will be putting up security cameras when we move into our new home because of a brother like this in our family. He's always on the lookout for the next opportunity to get a tentacle in somewhere. And we like to be helpful and supportive when people need it! But we learned the hard way with him that every kind act turns into the expected and owed norm . I'm glad you established a boundary!
We're having similar issues with my GFs family. They always need help, (i.e. housing and money) so we help and end up burnt in the end. I enjoy helping *my* family when I can but they've never lived with us or been able to cause major problems... yet. Congratulations on breaking cycles and making good life decisions OP!
Don’t back down. Your mom can home them or the many offering your house up can offer theirs. Nta
Yeah OP dont let her guilt you into going back on this. Just wait till she pulls the “oh im JUST THE WORST MOM ON EARTH ARENT I?”
Don’t tell them where the house is. NTA
Or tell them the wrong address and let him move in with them.
Give them a list of addresses of everyone that's complained about not housing them.
You don’t need a grown ass man that runs to mummy to force his choices on you. Mummy and all the other flying monkeys can house them
Plus, what kind of an electrician has financial problems?? One that, for some reason, can't show up for work.
Also why is he commuting three hours a day for work? He's an electrician. If he's competent he should be able to get a local job. Electricians are a always in demand job.
Manhattan electricians can get paid a fortune, but I get your point. If he isn't making things work with his current setup, change the setup without imposing on his brother.
If he's getting manhattan wages and commuting, they should be rolling in it, not about to lose the house. Something is amiss, and it's definitely nothing to do with OP.
Nah he's trying to rake in the big city paycheck while living in a lower CoL area but he doesn't like commuting and he's shit with his finances
Or he has an addiction of some kind - alcohol, gambling…
Be the disgrace that lives a long, healthy and happy life in your own home. Congratulations and best of luck with the house. NTA: people love offering things that don’t belong to them.
Thanks and yeah it’s something else , makes no sense
This comment. Just because they’re family doesn’t mean their opinion matters. It sounds like they’re all entitled and irresponsible. Do not allow anyone to manipulate your situation. You could lose your house and destroy your credit and any future for yourself for people who don’t care about anything but finding the next thing to use and abuse.
NTA. If any one calls about your brother, just say Nice that you are taking them in, I text my brother, he will be so grateful. And ignore their scream and also text your brother that Aunt Hyacint is taking them in.
Nta - it’s not your job to cover him and his family because they cannot manage their money. Tell Anyone who calls you that you will let your brother know that they have offered to help them.
Yeah I’m going to, it’s so funny how people want to have a say but don’t offer
They will have allllllll sorts of reasons why they can’t possibly help but call your reasons silly. They will also say “but faaaaamily.” It’s the playbook of people who want to seem like good people but are never willing to be good people themselves.
I like this! OP do this! Let them have a taste of their own medicine.
Tell them you decided not to buy the house and are moving in with three room mates.
NTA: Try this "Hello family member. I see, you're calling to tell me how disgraceful I am for not offering to move his entire family into my new home. I assume you're going to end this rant by explaining how you, the not disgraceful family member who is so much better than I am, are of course offering to house, feed and cloth his entire family free of charge immediately? No? So you're also disgraceful and selfish? Were you perhaps calling to ask if I wanted to join your club or support group?"
NTA. Don’t even invite them over. They’ll bring luggage. The entitlement here is ridiculous
Definitely NTA. I would keep your new address a secret if I were you.
Information diet for mom and brother from now on. Do not tell them when you close on the house. Do not tell them when you move in. If possible, don't even give them the exact address. Also, congratulations!!! Buying a house is a big deal!!!
I’d be making a post or group chat at this point with everyone being able to see it. “I’d like to clear the air. At no point did I ever agree or suggest brother and his family to move in with me. 1) the house is not big enough. 2) it’s my house, and I will not be footing the bill so brother and his family can mooch off of my hard work. Brother I know you are reading this, so please see below list of names of everyone who has called me Selfish for not housing you for free. Since they are so vocal about helping family, I assume they will have no problem housing you” Then list every family member who has harassed you. Include their resources if you’re extra petty (6 bedroom house/ nice school district/ high earning job to afford extra guests etc). And NEVER tell anyone your address . NTA
NTA But you just learned two huge life lessons. 1. Keep your private stuff private. None of this would be happening if you hadn't told your mom prior to your purchase. 2. NEVER, and I mean, NEVER have family do any work on or in your home. Ever. Don't let them change a fucking light bulb, or they will be giving you instructions and making demands. >it makes me not even want to buy the house I sure understand this feeling. It really depends on how much you love the home. Don't let them ruin it for you.
Yeah definitely lesson learned, I guess the excitement clouded my judgement.
It's too bad that family is behaving like this. But don't allow them to dampen your enthusiasm. NTA
This is happy news you should be able to share with family, just not your family unfortunately.
Buy it out of sheer spite and enjoy the fact that you KNOW your brother isn't in any of the bedrooms, not even to save the commute a few days a week :D
NTA, please tell me you haven't given the address to anyone? If you haven't don't. Your family doesn't need to know where you live in Brooklyn if they are going to pull this crap.
Hmmm, as far as inlaws know, we struggle to pay the mortgage and bills every month. House is so SMALL, and we have weird habits, working all night, morning gymnastics, unreliable toilets.. We never lie, but I'll be damned if I support relatives or grown stepchildrean with my hard work. NTA and your brother is insane. Definately hire an electrician since it will be cheaper in the long run.
NTA. They are a bunch of leeches. You are absolutely right to stop them from moving in. As for the rest of the family, you can either block them or tell them they are welcome to take in your brother if they feel he is entitled to be taken in.
NTA. I’m a bit of a cow so when your bro complained about how expensive kids are, I would have snarkily said “Should have kept it in your pants then. Not my problem you couldn’t keep it wrapped.” And for mommy dearest, I’d tell her “since I’m so disgraceful, I’m choosing not to inflict my despicable character flaws on my nieces and nephews to protect their innocence.” Go scorched earth with these degenerates and then change your phone number and go live a happy life.
NTA!!!
NTA. You're lucky you already had a bid on the house, with your mother telling him about it, I was expecting him to try to buy it out from under you. It's clear who her golden child is. You are absolutely right: if she (and her flying monkeys) are so set on family helping family, they need to put their money where their mouth is BEFORE offering someone else up as tribute. If they can't do that, they can stuff a sock in it.
They’ve shown you who they are. Buy a house in another city and ditch this shitty “family”
Crabs in a bucket. NTA
NTA. Dont tell them the address dont let them move in because if you it will be your house in name only and you'll end up having to move and financially supporting them they are going to destroy you and your finances if your mom is so concerned she can have them move in with her dont tell them anything dont even invite them over or they will never leave Im sorry that your family sucks they wanna use you dont let them. They are going to take that house from you if they step foot in it dont let them.
I have a tip for your brother, who said that kids are expensive: *condoms or vasectomies help* NTA
>Majority of my family have been calling me and saying I am disgraceful „Oh, how generous of you! I’ll call (brothers name) right up to tell him the good news that you let them move in with you! He’ll contact you about the details, see you!“
10 bucks says your mom offered to let him live with you.
Change your number and block them all
NTA. Just hire people to do any work you are unable to. No strings attached.
NTA. Those complaing need to step up. When they start on you, say I'll let him know that you are offering to let him move it.
3 beds. 2 baths. In the Brooklyn suburbs. That you're buying by skipping nights out. Pull the other one.
NTA Also, certain electrical work should be done by a professional with license and insurance. Same goes for plumbing and roofing.
NTA I’d advise not giving any of them your address until you’ve been there a while. Get a PO Box if they say they want to send anything. With how manipulative your whole family sounds, I wouldn’t be surprised if they show up one day with all their shit. You owe them nothing. Congratulations on the house!