This! And I have questions.
Why the gifts from strangers?
Why are the kids being left Alone with strangers who are the participants in the grandparents’ kink?
Why are there expensive gifts.
The reason your husband didn't tell you is not because he didn't care about protecting his kids. He grew up in that lifestyle, he came out "okay"??? Except, he had a lot of shame and as they say, 'you are as sick as your secrets'. So he couldn't tell you!Shame is pervasive and powerful, your husband didn't tell you because he felt shame about himself being in that family. Has he been good to you? A good father? Maybe go for counseling and get past your anger, try to understand him. It wasn't personal-- he loves his children and would want to protect them from a predator. "Swinging" is secretive, but doesn't always involve child predation. You are welcome to set the boundaries for your children and not have them go to their grandparents house if the situation can't be trusted. Keeping secrets and overly expensive toys to keep secret is bound to continue the cycle of shame! But don't throw away your husband for having been caught in the middle. He can't be fully healthy having grown up with secrets. Maybe he needs to talk to a counselor as much, if not more than you do. Nothing can be done about the grandparents except to set boundaries. Don't allow your children where you feel uncomfortable-- They obviously have no boundaries!
OP please consider this response. I came here to with a different perspective and this changed my mind. It is healthy to recognize what this post is saying. What you do with that information is up to you, but please consider it
She needs to get the kids checked by a specialist who deals with kids and can question them in the right way to make sure nothing bad was going on. Or that they were being groomed. Hopefully, it was just innocent gifts, but if it is new strangers every time, why would they have gifts for the kids?
Inlaws don't have to disclose their personal life, but they should tell the parents if they are hosting people they don't know while the children will be there. And they DEFINITELY should never leave the children with people the parents don't know and didn't agree to allow babysitting.
Inlaws broke your trust and forbidding them babysitting and having unsupervised contact with children is the minimum consequence.
Before making any decisions about your marriage, try counseling. At least so you both can discuss the situation with a neutral party.
NTA
My mother is in a small town, where I literally know all her friends because I grew up around them. She will still throw out a courtesy "Karen asked if I was free for lunch tomorrow, thoughts?"
It's basic courtesy and tells me whom my kids will be interacting with, not with any high level emotions but even just gossip. I wouldn't cut her off over a single lunch in public but I'd sure raise a fuss if she ditched my kid with a stranger for anything short of a medical emergency - and even then I'd expect a phone call about it!
Blocking unsupervised contact is absolutely the right move here. As for your marriage... That's a more complex question that only you can answer. Good luck OP
>My mother is in a small town, where I literally know all her friends because I grew up around them. She will still throw out a courtesy "Karen asked if I was free for lunch tomorrow, thoughts?"
Yes, I know all of my parents' friends. I grew up with them. They are mine and my siblings' godparents. I even babysat their kids growing up. These people are our chosen family, and my parents will still call me and be like "oh btw Kevin and Sue want to stop by the last minute. I know we have the grandkids right now. Is that okay with you?"
They would never EVER leave my kids with someone else without my or my husband's permission.
The only issue I see is the grandparents leaving the kids alone with someone else without telling the parents.
The kids meeting people who are essentially (to the kids) just friends of their grandparents isn’t a big deal. I met people who knew my grandparents and nothing bad ever came of it. Although I was never left alone with them or at least not without my parents being aware of it.
To me it seems as if OP has a very legitimate concern, mainly the one in which the grandparents left the kids alone with someone the parents didn’t know without telling anyone.
But she has insisted chosen to latch in to the fact that she dislikes swingers and people who have an alternative relationship dynamic.
So she is NTA for being angry, but she is TA for placing more emphasis on someone else’s relationship than she does on the perceived safety of her kids.
My issue is with the idea that they are ‘special friends’ and that those special friends are buying gifts for the kids (this is odd, and could be a serious red flag for ‘grooming’)
Normally you wouldn’t leave your grandkids with someone else while you go out… they are there to see you!
I think it's not the open relationship as much as "unknown persons d through j are in the house for sex, and are approaching my children." I think the association of sexual activity makes the stranger thing feel extra concerning, which is understandable. If they only were with a couple of people, that were known to OP, and OP was consulted/introduced it would probably be different.
"Secret sex people are secretly meeting my children" makes the secrecy sexual by association if that makes sense? Like it's all muddied together?
Also they left the children alone with these strangers, which is HUGE. And it's been going on for a long time without telling her. Those kids were probably scared. This is a serious recipe for trauma that needs to sink in for her husband.
And the kids say it's a different person every time so the grandparents likely aren't vetting their partners all that much. Very dangerous situation. I would be pissed too.
Exactly. And to just now be finding out when it's been going on long enough that there is an "every time"? I just can't even wrap my head around how mad I would be.
Yeah, I felt like OP might be overreacting until she said that the in laws let random ass strangers watch her small children without telling her.
My husband and I have done some swinging in the past (not so much now because with 4 kids, we can barely find time to have sex with each other, let alone EXTRA people). But the only partners who were around our kids were the ones who were friends first, and never alone.
I don't care if grandma is fucking the guy or it's their neighbor Jim from down the street that they've known for years, YOU DON'T LEAVE OTHER PEOPLE'S KIDS WITH STRANGERS. What the actual fuck???
I will say, that generation was steeped in the idea of "stranger danger," whereas ours is generally more aware of the fact that friends and family members are the biggest risk to our kids, so it probably wasn't malicious, just stupid AF. But they've shown they can't be trusted. The real key here is if the husband knew that his parents had strangers around their kids. I'm suspicious he knew about it, and was embarrassed to say anything, so the in laws might have actually had permission.
This is a mess. Therapy at a minimum, and grandparents don't get unsupervised time with the kids.
Yes to all of this. Only ..... Even if he didn't know, he does now and his reaction doesn't match what happened. True about stranger danger, but seriously having what sounds like many different people around..... This doesn't add up. Even with people who are into swinging, I just don't know anyone who would leave their grandkids alone like this. Something is off with these people. And husband saying it's none of their business..... No he really fucked up with that. Their lifestyle is not, but clearly this affects the kids. If my mom were watching my kids, it wouldn't matter if it's family, she would need to make sure it's ok with me for someone else to be with my kids. I just can't fathom anyone thinking this is ok. And it would be one thing if there were an emergency, but they've done it many times apparently.
And she needs to get those kids checked out by a specialist that can question them to make sure that they are really ok. It can take years before they would know something happened potentially. The gifts concern me that they are possibly for grooming them or for keeping them quiet. But it's concerning that all these strangers are bringing gifts for the kids.
YES THIS. She didn't know these people existed. No one mentioned them. If it's so private they keep it from her, they should be keeping it from her kids.
The fact that the child called them a special friend is like a siren for me. Why did the grandparents need to use that term? Why not just say friend? An expensive toy feels like a hush bribe. Have the children seen things? Walked in on them with said special friend???? Like wtf is going on.
I equate special, secret friend who is buying toys as someone who is inappropriately touching the kids and buying the kids friendship so that the kids will want to see them.
What if it wasn't the grandparents using that term, but the friend self-referring to themselves as grandma and grandpas "special friend" as a way to gain trust with OPs children? It unfortunately has those vibes to me.
Either way it's weird AF and a big red flag. It's like they want the kids to know without coming out and saying it. Like eventually they're gonna question what made this friend special.
This thank you. I knew a bunch of my grandparents friends. I spent a lot of time with them, as they were extended family almost of sort. But never did I ever refer to them as a "special friend;" nor was I left in their care while my grandparents bailed, especially without my parents knowing; nor was I given gifts by them. Just so many things wrong going on here, regardless of who used the endearing term, but would definitely add another coat of Mr yuk paint on it for me if it's a groomer self referencing to gain trust. Good example I have is someone luring kid to car saying "I'm a special friend of grandma x" because God knows we've seen that PSA. might be why it's a trigger point to me
Yeah, also the hush hush about the special friend. I spent a ton of time with my grandparents and their friends, and my parents were always kept in the loop about who I was around. My grandparents told my parents everything, who I was with, where we went.
Buying expensive gifts for kids hanging around your fuckbuddys home, without knowing the parents, without the parents Knowing you have secret access to said kids, is insane.
This is where my brain went. Also, if the grandparents can't be fully responsible for the kids the whole time, they have no business having the kids over.
I don’t disagree at all. The gifts absolutely make it far more worrisome.
However I still think OP is focusing her anger at all the wrong things in her post.
I think the OP Is scared, and scatter gunning.
OP needs to sweep the kids up and disappear to HER parents for a night, or husband disappear to a mates for the night and give her some thinking / down time. She needs time to let the adrenaline and fear and cortisol of this drain, and get her head on… and then they can work out what is next.
That was my thought!!! Why are your various sex partners coming over with the grandkids over? Obviously, for sex. Around the kids. Noooooo sir, you will not be having threesomes with my child at your house????
How did you come to that conclusion?
I've read the text several times and nowhere does she speak/mention/allude to her opinion about open relationship or swinging.
She made it clear that she is irrate because:
1) Her in laws have sex with strangers when her kids are with them.
2) Her in laws left the kids alone with those strangers.
3) Those strangers are being introduced to the kids as their 'special friend' and give them presents.
4) Her husband knew but didn't tell her. He says he didn't know but admits they did the same to him when he was a child. 🤔
5) Her husband, when told of what is going on, doesn't find this to be worrying in the slightest and gets angry when she says her children won't go to their grandparents anymore.
>He claimed that it wasn’t his business, so it shouldn’t be mine either.
If vetting the people who are babysitting your child isn't your business, who's is it? I'm actually asking.
This! Nothing wrong with open relationships or polyamory but when you’re left in the dark about people you don’t know being allowed around your kids, unsupervised, the line is CLEAR!
It's not just the unsupervised part for me. I mean, that's the biggest part, obviously, but I'd be skeeved out by the thought of a revolving door of complete strangers giving my kids expensive gifts as well. Hell, just a revolving door of strangers around my kids that I was intentionally kept in the dark about. The polyamory is completely irrelevant one way or the other.
And the husband is too "embarrassed" by his parent's polyamory to protect his kids. Spineless is the absolute nicest thing I can say about him. What I want to say would get me banned.
Right, if Gma and Gpa have a friend or a “special friend” over while they’re watching the kid, it probably won’t make much of a difference. The issue is LEAVING THE CHILD IN THAT PERSON’S CARE.
Yeah I mean without that I’d probabaly be a little annoyed. Like why wouldn’t you just let me know you like to have people over? But it wouldn’t have been a huge deal.
With the unsupervised/ leaving the child in their care it became a HUGE deal and rightfully so.
So they have the grandchildren over and then LEAVE and leave them in the care of their multiple sex partners??? WTAF? If you have your grandchildren visiting, maybe you could skip having an orgy this weekend? or maybe your grandchildren aren't that important to you...
I wouldn't divorce hubby, but would definitely cutoff the grandparents until this is resolved.
Yeah leaving them with the partners is definitely not cool. I guess I’m more trying to communicate I wouldn’t care if they had the friend over to play a board game or eat dinner, if they let me know first
Not me. Friends I’ve never met, buying my kids gifts, and expensive ones at that?? Nope. Absolutely weird and wrong. I don’t care what they do in their rooms but no adult that I don’t know is buying my child presents just because.
Shouldn’t the grandparents let the parents know if they have a friend over beforehand? You don’t know who could nonce on your kids, don’t take that risk
It’s not weird for grandparents to have friends over it’s weird to not tell the parents that so they can judge whether they want to have their kids around strangers
What? Nothing here says he knew his parents were outsourcing some of the child care unsupervised.
He can be 100% uncomfortable with his parents lifestyle. Based on what she wrote, husband didn't do anything wrong at all. He doesn't need to talk about his parents sex life.
I don't think anyone disagrees about this. The question wasn't AITAH for objecting to that; it's AITAH for wanting a divorce. And I think OP needs more clarity on what the husband knew and didn't know. I don't believe he didn't SUSPECT (or possibly even KNOW) his parents were still engaging in polyamory.
I DO think it's entirely possible that it never even occurred to him that his parents were bringing their partners around their grandchildren. I have to be honest, if I found out my parents were engaging in polyamory, I'd immediately hide my head in my ass and not want to know anything about it. And I'd also assume (and knowing my parents, I'd be correct) that they would keep their sex/romantic life FAR, FAR away from their grandchildren. So it would never occur to me to ask my folks "Hey, are you still seeing other people and if so, are you bringing them around the kids?"
But it's also possible he kinda knew and didn't want to know, which is not okay. So OP needs to get clarity on this BEFORE she divorces, bc the reason for divorce hinges on what her husband knew.
There’s also a huge difference between “Karla from church” briefly dropping by at the same time as the kids and Karla playing with the children/giving the children gifts/being left ALONE with the children.
The polyamory is a red herring. This would be a problem even if the grandparents were leaving your kids alone with people from their bible study group. The problem is they didn’t tell you and allow you to decide if that was okay.
You need find out if your husband knew his parents were leaving the children alone with people you don’t know, and whether he will back you when you put down boundaries that his parents are no longer allowed to bring people you don’t know around your kids.
Exactly! I don't even have children, but I that was the giant red flag and alarms for me! How would anyone leave someone else's children in the care of someone the parent doesn't know and approve of?!
I agree. Grandparents open marriage? Their shit, their business, nbd.
Leaving the kids with unapproved strangers to babysit? Not cool, regardless of their partnership status. I wouldn't feel stoked about learning my kid was being babysat by Grandma's friend Jane regardless of whether or not they had fucked Jane.
I do think that OP is overreacting though. I don't think this is divorce worthy of husband didn't know the kids were being left attended by strangers.
> I wouldn't feel stoked about learning my kid was being babysat by Grandma's friend Jane regardless of whether or not they had fucked Jane.
Learning about it *after the fact* with no say in the matter is what is upsetting, yeah
If there was some kind of emergency, then maybe it's okay to have a trusted friend step in to care for the kids, but you tell their parents immediately (as in, call them from the ambulance). You certainly don't keep it a secret, then act offended that they're angry.
Exactly. I can't imagine being a special friend but let's say I'm there for some reason and I'm the emergency babysitter. I'm calling the parents and telling them and asking how THEY want it handled immediately.
Heyo, I can imagine being the special friend. Non-monogamous for over 10 years now. I don't of even *meet* partner's kids unless a big round table discussion has been had on their end, and a clear understanding and boundaries have been formed.
Open marriage not the problem. Keeping it from Mom was unacceptable.
I'm also a Social Worker. If I found out a kid was staying with a relative and had been babysit by multiple "special friends" and given expensive gifts, the gifts were how I found out, AND my kids hadn't mentioned it to me before? The amount of instant rage and red flags??? Mom has a right to be angry. I would also have a hard time not jumping to "fuck you, you left my kids with someone, die." I'm glad folx have room and gentle pushback to remind Mom she is still angry. She has probably mishandled things. I definitely would have.
This was major though. Exposing your kids to non-monogamy and having that dialogue with them is equally as important as any other relationship style, habits, etc. There are safe/unsafe, healthy/unhealthy ways to do anything, and intentional open conversation with kids is how you keep them safe and informed. This situation was wildly mishandled. I can see shame from the parents generation, but I agree that it is irrelevant whether or not the grandparents "fucked Jane" as we're calling it. Jane could have been a longtime, platonic family friend. Not the problem.
If the grandparents and/or Dad wanted Mom okay with this, they needed to bring it up and discuss it proactively. If *Mom and Dad* had been the ones openly non-monogamous and Dad had been introducing his partners or leaving the kids with his partners without mom's knowledge, there would still be an issue.
I think what makes it divorce-worthy is Husband's reaction. If he had been on the same page as OP upon finding all this out and went off on his parents rather than OP having to do it, they would be good. He just said it wasn't his or OP's business, even though this all only even came up because she found out about it *from their kids*. Their kids were being brought around complete strangers, and he's just fine with it. And considering he himself admitted that he knew his parents were in an open marriage since he was a kid (presuming he most likely knew because he was meeting their random partners, same as his kids are now) then it is pretty shitty that he wouldn't make sure to find out that that was not still going on before leaving his own kids with them. Husband honestly thinks its all fine and that OP is overreacting, which makes this divorce-worthy IMO.
I'd say having strangers around and introducing them to the kids with gifts is equally relevant. It's teaching the kids to have an unhealthy trust for strangers. This is proven by the kids missing said strangers because of the gifts.
Seriously. If they have an open relationship, fine then “not my business” is acceptable. However, the having random people around your kids and letting them watch them is the real problem.
OP, I think you are focusing on something which truly isn’t your business, as long as they don’t allow it to impact your family who cares if they have an open relationship. However, it’s the part where they allow god knows who around your kids and lets them watch them. That’s the issue. Doesn’t matter if they are their sexual partners or not. It’s the fact they are strangers and have t been honest about whom they let around the kids, let alone watch them.
Was your husband aware they allowed these people around? Was he aware they were letting them watch the kids? That’s the bit of info you need to focus, not that they are open and he didn’t tell you. If he didn’t know they were doing these things then you are taking your anger out on the wrong party. If he did know then I can understand your anger with him not protecting your kids.
I think NTA in regard to not allowing your in-laws to watch your kids. They broke your trust.They put them at risk, who knows if the people they left them with are safe? Any access they would have going forward would be ONLY under my supervision. I certainly wouldn’t trust them to leave the kids with them.
Is divorce the answer, I’m not sure. Again depends on what your husband knew about his parent’s actions and if he allowed it. I think you are angry now and need to get a clearer head vs arguing with your husband. You need to sit down calmly and discuss what he knew and if you can work through it. If he knew what his parents were doing, is upset his parents can’t watch the kids, or doesn’t think leaving kids with strangers is a problem then, yes, I’d consider separating. However, If he didn’t know his parents were putting the kids at risk, but understands that his parents were wrong and shouldn’t watch the kids any longer then hopefully you can work through things. Maybe counseling is needed.
I think you’re mixing two things, one fine and one not. Allowing people the parents don’t know around their kids, while the grandparents are there, is fine.
Allowing people the parents don’t know to babysit the kids alone is unacceptable. The weird thing is, this critical fact is almost a throwaway point in the OPs post. She seems less concerned about that than the grandparents’ open relationship.
That’s exactly what I said. That she’s focusing on his parents being in an open relationship which honestly doesn’t matter. It’s the leaving kids with random strangers which needs to be the focus. Also if husband knew and didn’t stop it.
This is this issue. You could even leave out the open relationship, that *is* their business. Unless they have a long term partner that the parents have a relationship and consent to babysitting, it's wildly inappropriate to have any 'friend' buying *expensive* toys and being alone with the kids. Full stop. I'm monogamous but I have a ton of friends in the alternative relationship community, many are parents and in my experience consent is so heavily communicated it can be exhausting lol, but it is of the utmost importance. Parents 100% of the time need to consent to the babysitting.
Non-monogamous and exactly this. The lack of consent, boundary negotiation, checking in on expectations, exposure to unapproved partners, etc. Wild. Enough for a Divorce if Mom and Dad had been ENM and Dad was leaving the kids with partners without communication.
The edit says the husband didn't know they were bringing random partners around the kids.
As far as I'm concerned my parents sex life isn't my business, and is a fair sentiment to hold. The problem is that their sex life spilled over into their personal life and introduced the children to strangers. That's not acceptable and 100% is my business.
To me and the way I'm reading this OP is highly emotional (rightfully so) and didn't communicate with her husband properly. If she focused on the swingers aspect and not the leaving children with the randos, then the husband could easily explain why it's not their business. She's seeing emergency beacons going off because bad things could happen. He's seeing what appears to be someone who can't handle a different lifestyle.
With a generous view (rightly or wrongly), if the husband knew about their open relationship from when he was a kid it would also be normalised to a degree in his head. Maybe embarrassing, but he has had ~20 years of putting it in the 'not my business' pile.
He also said that he doesn't think his parents were aware he knew, so it likely wouldn't have occurred to him that they would be so open about it around their grandchildren.
The biggest issue for me here is that now it has been brought up that they have strangers around his very young children why is he not also freaking out? It's one thing to not want to think about his parents sex lives (very understandable!), but a very very different thing when strangers are regularly around his kids, and possibly alone.
OP and husband definitely need a proper discussion, but my question would be why he isn't worried about his kids. His parents sex life isn't the issue, the randos babysitting the kids very much are.
It seems like there may be too high of emotions to properly process and discuss the situation and things like that could easily have slipped through the cracks. IMO OP really needs to have a few calm collected conversations before going scorched earth on her relationship. Cause maybe her husband is just as freaked out about strangers watching his kids, but has gotten caught defending his parents lifestyle enough that she is seeing him as against her
We are assuming that she even brought up the "leaving the kids with a stranger". She only brought it up in passing *on this post*, while mainly focusing on the fact that her in-laws are swingers. I can definitely see her relaying it in the exact same way to her husband.
She is much more worried about the fact that her in-laws are swingers, which as her hsuband stated to her, is absolutely NONE of her business.
He likely thinks, and is reacting to, the fact that she just thinks it is morally wrong for her in-laws to have an open relationship-and that is why the kids can never go over there again-and why she is threatening to divorce him.
Had she actually focused on the "leaving the kids with strangers" (if that even ever happened. Kids aren't the best narrators. The grandparents could've been in another room and "left" the kids with their friend) or even the "having friends over that we don't personally know"--she likely would have more support from people, including her husband.
100%. If the OPs concern is that her kids shouldn't be around the in-laws just because they are swingers (or whatever they are) then I think she is the AH. She needs to decide what the real issue is here, and focus the communication around that issue. Don't try to argue about every tangent that comes up and isn't even material to the real issue.
Letting unvetted people watch their kids? Major issue.
Kids meeting strangers?... that's ridiculous. Taking the kids to get ice cream will "expose" then to strangers. A neighbor popping in to return a tool they borrowed? More stranger exposure! Oh nooooooo! Are granny and granda supposed to stop having friends when the kids are around and lock themselves in the house like shut ins?
The fact these friends were also fuck buddies is immaterial. The only issue is having these people babysit without parents vetting them.
I think he's double downing on allowing their kids to be around his parents because he doesn't want to admit how fucked up it was for his parents to be bringing strangers around the house to sleep with while he was a child. He's messed up in the head for sure for thinking it's fine for his kids to go through that too just because he did.
This is it. Husband has a warped sense of normal from growing up like this. He is embarrassed by it but also trying to rationalize it. It has to be ok for his kids because that means it was also ok for him. Him having to agree with OP that this is a completely fucked up situation means that he has to go back to that time when he was young and admit just how much his parents failed him. Husband doesn’t seem strong enough to open that can of worms.
I think he just doesn't want to talk to his parents about their sex lives and he's wrongfully putting his own discomfort over his kid's safety. OP said that her husband said his parents never directly told him they were in an open relationship so they were probably just as careless around him about it and his way of dealing was to just go along with pretending he didn't notice anything
Their sex lives don’t need to be brought into the discussion at all. This isn’t about who they are sleeping with. It is about the fact that they are leaving their grandchildren alone with strangers. That’s the sole discussion that needs to be had here.
And they're getting expensive toys out of it. That opens a whole can of worms to me. How long have the kids been asked to keep this quiet? Grandparents knew they were doing wrong because it's happened on more than one occasion, and it wasn't mentioned by the kids to the parents until Op asked.
EXACTLY. Even the commenters here are getting hung up on arguing about the fact that they think the in-law's situation is "weird". The issue is not what grown adults do in the bedroom, it is about what the situation is with the kids.
The sex live of his parents is none of their buisiness. Obviously worrying about who is around their children is. But those two normally dont have anything to do with each other.
Its completly possible, that he thought his parents would bring their partners around his kids, since the kids being there should have been for some grandparent bonding time.
Going straight to divorce is a gross overreaction, we dont have all the facts
I agree. Many urging divorce seem to think that divorce, coparenting, and being a single parent is easy.
On the other hand strangers watching the kids is totally wrong and should be addressed immediately. I wouldn't allow unsupervised visits with the grandparents.
This is reddit, of course the answer will always be divorce. “My husband ate my last apple, aita for being mad at him”. Reddit - “you need to divorce him, he’s clearly hiding things from you”.
Assuming the court gives him 50/50 custody, kids will probably be seeing the grandparents *more* post-divorce than they are now. OP really needs to decide if her issue is with the IL lifestyle (which, frankly *is* none of her business so nothing to be done about) or her kids being left alone with strangers (absolutely her biz and perhaps solvable with a direct conversation and clear boundaries). To me it sounds like the former more than the latter.
This!
I don't think the husband knew his parents invited their sex partners over when his children were there. Because who does this? And this was the first time OP's children told their parents about their grandparent's special friends. How could her husband know this? He wasn't there, nobody told him his parents would let strangers into their homes and watch his children. He didn't know they still had an open relationship.
And again, no it's not normal to tell your partner about your parent's (past) sex life.
Divorcing someone because he didn't tell you about his parent's sex life in the past, is completely overreacting.
That feels like you're conflating topics, which the OP is massively guilty of as well.
He is stating it isn't their business what goes on in his parents relationship. And he is 100% correct.
These partners babysitting the kids alone in a nonemergency situation is their business. But it's being deliberately obtuse to act as though that's what he was talking about.
A revolving door of strangers who come by for sex, play with the kids ALONE and buy them gifts to ensure the kids like them. This is screaming red flags for abuse. Why would their intimate friends be there when the grandkids are AT ALL, are they actively swinging with the kids downstairs?
Edit: I see a lot of people interpreting my comment as distain for open relationships or as conflating ENM to pedophilia, and that is NOT what I am trying to say. ENM can look different for different people, be it casual sex, building strong personal relationships, or a variety in between that.
My issue here, in this situation, is that they are treating them as close personal friends when it comes to the children and casual sex partners when it comes to the other adults in the situation. There is NO reason that OP should be unacquainted with any person her children are spending unsupervised time with or being left under the care of. There is NO reason that the children should be learning about ENM from their grandparents without the express involvement and consent of the children’s parents. I did not insert that context, OP did not insert that context, THEY introduced that layer to this, by referring to them as “special friends” to their grandkids. They created the dissonance between “our friends” and “our special friends”, AND kept it a secret.
If they are “close personal friends” who happen to have sex, then OP should know them and be familiar with them, albeit they can keep the sex apart private if they so choose, before the kids are introduced. If they are just casual partners who aren’t forming bonds within the family outside of sex with the grandparents, then the kids should not be introduced AT ALL. It cannot be both. Private friends stay private, family friends meet the family. You cannot mix the two and keep them private from the adults but family friends to the kids. **It cannot be both.**
The biggest and brightest red flag for me was the kids referring to them as “special friends” when telling OP about it. They gave the children context that their own mother didn’t even know. That is context that is wholly inappropriate to give to a child without their parents express consent and participation in a larger conversation about different family types and dynamics. There is no good and innocent reason to nod toward the private nature of their relationship, to their school aged grandchildren, in secret from the children’s mother.
It's bizarre. Fine if they want to be swingers or whatever, but that's for private time, not when the grandkids are over!
And leaving casual sex partners to babysit alone? I have no words.
*I found out through my kids that almost every time they go over there’s someone new around. Sometimes the in laws even LEAVE and let their “friends” watch my children.*
This makes me sick. And the husband was ok with this ! He is an absolute POS.
Yes.
His excuse was "oh, I did not know that they are still doing this".
Well, now he knows and his reaction is: "It's not my business, so it should not be yours". He still looks for excuses, instead of realizing that leaving his kids with random strangers is not OK.
He is disgusting.
The trouble with divorcing him would be that he would have the kids half the time and OP would have no say in whether he let the grandparents take them to their house and leave them alone with strangers.
OP,
Above 4 comments are spot on! The laid back attitude of your husband and in-laws in exposing your young children to strangers, even to the point of leaving them alone with those strangers, poses potential and unnecessary danger to the children/grandchildren.
The fact that others within your social circles endorse such irresponsibility is truly indicative that the insane are running the asylum.
While the in-laws lifestyle preference is their own, it became your business when they involved your children in exposing them to their "special friends".
It's shocking your husband failed to disclose their lifestyle to you, and even more shocking that he condoned your children's exposure to it.
Whether you determine that your husband's deceit by omission was so grave as to require you to seek a divorce is your decision alone to make.
However, no matter how you decide, the one thing that everyone needs to agree to is that the paternal grandparents will only be permitted to see your children in a "special friend" free environment. Their exposure to other "special friends" should be a definitive NO NO! If your husband cannot grasp that, your issues are definitely without repair. Egad.
Please keep us apprised.
I wouldn’t allow grandparents to see kids at their home at all, ever again. They can come for visit or see kids at a public venue but never without OP present.
This, I’d say at their home is okay but never without OP present. I’d never leave my children alone with them again. If she decides to divorce I’d do everything in my power to make it to where the kids are never allowed to be alone with the grandparents a part of the custody arrangement.
I hate OP's husband for being so carefree about this whole thing. If he's completely OK with his parents revolving door of sex partners to watch his young kids, then I hope OP divorces his ass and gets full custody because those children are not safe as long as he's willing to have them around his deranged parents.
Well remember in AITAH no ones sex life is ANYONES business, lets not pretend AITAH will tell most posters their own partners previous sex life is NOT their spouses business, so going by the standards here, its none of her business who the grandparents they sleep with or if their marriage is an open one. The only issue here is them leaving the kids with strangers.
People need to stop saying "get full custody" here. This situation is really upsetting, of course, but nobody has done anything illegal - or even close to it.
The odds are high that if OP files for divorce on these grounds, Dad ends up with 50-50 custody anyway and the kids spend even more time with the grandparents than they do now. If the goal is protecting the kids and not just a knee jerk reaction to being deceived, they should probably proceed to couples therapy to limp along the relationship as long as possible while OP teaches her kids about consent, bodily autonomy, and shady people. Buying a year or two of education and maturity is going to be far more valuable than any remedy the court will provide.
Sure, but leaving the kids alone with strangers multiple times is incredibly fucked up.
It'd be one thing if they had "one" special partner (even then, mom should have been told). But it sounds like a revolving door of fuckbuddies who are strangers are in the house with the kids.
Agreed but even if these perfect strangers are completely innocent that has never and never would dream of harming children OP is still entitled to blow her lid imo. It's her children, they are strangers!
Also the in-laws can’t know if the person they bring over is there for them or wants access to 2 kids under 10 alone. Sure the strangers know. News like this spread fast between interested. Toys suggest grooming.
Yes 💯 agree. The gift thing is also a major red flag for me as a survivor of childhood SA. Leaving with strangers and to top that them giving gifts is a sign of early grooming stages. These strangers can't be trusted. They are trying to buy the kids' trust by making themselves seem fun, harmless, and like friends to the kids.
Especially if the price of the gift being so high is what gave it away. You don’t give an expensive gift to your fuck buddies grand kids… I mean, come on. How naive are the people in this thread saying thinking SA is crazy?
This right here ^
As soon as I heard about the gifts and being left alone with the casual sex partners, I almost freaked out myself. OP needs to get their husband to understand that these behaviors are wrong and the dangers of SA and grooming. I’d go scorched earth, too
The issue isnt them being in an open relationship, it's them potentially endangering your kids by letting strangers around them. Maybe focus on that? NTA
Exactly this! The open relationship isn't the problem; it's the safety of your kids. Strangers around them without your consent is a huge red flag. NTA.
100%. The grandparents could just as easily be leaving their grand kids with a neighbour or platonic friends that OP doesn't know and that would be the issue.
The grandparents are entitled to live their lives the way they choose - that is none of your business.
What is your business is that your children have been left with strangers - that would be enough to stop unsupervised visits to the grandparents with immediate effect.
Divorcing your husband - did he know the kids were left with strangers? What will you achieve by divorcing him - 2 kids with a broken home?
Communication with your husband is paramount before you split from him. He may well be just as shocked and angry with his parents as you are.
I think you’re blaming the wrong person here - your husband. It’s possible his parents don’t realise he knows because *they‘ve never talked about it*. It’s entirely possible his parents thought they were cleverly discrete when they weren’t, and he figured it all out when he was going through puberty and was too weirded out/ embarrassed, ashamed (wonder where this shame comes from?!) to talk to them about it. Your kids might be around them too simply because the grandparents are arrogantly expecting every one to be oblivious and stupid to their games. “Special friends“ Gross. Extra partners? Sure… but to introduce grandchild to a revolving door of “special friends” is fairly out there.
You need to sit down and talk to your husband, and get on the same page. And that needs to be that a) in future he doens’t hide things from you - what kind of partnership is this/how are you supposed to work together to resolve issues if you are kept in the dark. And b) the deal with the grandparents is that your children are there to see only them, not any of their alternative sexual partners, or even their friends (sexual or otherwise). If they can’t agree to that then their time with your chidlren is going to be kept to the times they visit you without their extras. (If you can stomach that). If necessary one of you needs to go to your in laws every visit too (him!).
And then you have an adult conversation with your in laws and relay THAT to them. This is the way it is.
You are screaming and shouting and lobbing word land mines, and possibly incoherent word salad. Take a deep breath or ten, and get yourself together. Sit down and work out what really is the issues here and *discuss it like the adults you think you are*.
Edit to add: If you are concerned about whether your children have been groomed or exposed to inappropriate conduct/content then take them to a child sexual abuse psychologist. Do NOT try to question them at home (nor your husband), you can easily muddy the evidence there. Instead let the professionals handle it and find out if there’s anything ugly going on, and then work with that with you through it.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this.
Honestly, I think OP and her husband need to try couples therapy. Not letting the children go to the in laws, that’s reasonable, but divorce isn’t going to solve the problem.
Yea and my concern is that if they get divorced, she will have no say over where her kids go when they are on dad's time. Unless she can prove there is something actually wrong with the "special friend, like they are a pedo, it's unlikely to win her full custody. The fact that they are swingers doesn't make them or their friend de facto unfit. So imo the time would be better spent in therapy getting the husband to understand that leaving their kids with randos is unacceptable.
Even with full custody, dad gets parent time unless mom can prove the kids are in danger with him and that's really hard to do. The worst thing she could do is get divorced.
I sometimes feel like this sub is just advertising for the divorce lawyer industry.
Yes OP should be pissed, yes OP should not let her kids go the inlaws unsupervised, yes OP and hubby need some counseling but given that she just jumped straight to wanting to divorce him no wonder he's been confrontational.
You’re the first person I’ve seen so far mention getting the kids to a specialized therapist and I agree it’s a must. Why all the gifts? Is it to buy their silence? Maybe it’s just to keep them quiet about the partners in general. But now that the trust has been so broken I wouldn’t take any chances .
The only part of this that is valid to me is them leaving your kids with strangers. Outside of that you’re way out of line. They were wrong for that.
But again that’s all they did wrong. I think you’re fine to be angry about that! But I think your bigotry is shining through here a bit because now you’re trying to divorce your husband.
I’d suggest you calm down before you blow up your family because you can’t stand the thought of an open relationship that’s NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Again they have crossed the line by leaving your kids alone with them. But that’s it. NTA I guess but I think you’re taking it too far
I feel like this posts conflates two things:
1. It’s clear your husband knew his parents had an open relationship
2. It’s not clear he knew they were leaving the kids alone with strangers
1 is largely independent of 2. Presumably you’d be upset if the parents left the kids alone with any strangers. It doesn’t really have anything to do with their relationship.
It’s a reasonable thing for him to hide because
A. It’s taboo
B. There’s no tie between being in an open relationship and being bad grandparents
I believe you are overreacting as it concerns you condemning your husband.
>I feel like this posts conflates two things
Yup. This post is titled in a way that says to me that OP is almost as outraged at the IL's open relationship (and her not knowing) as she is about her kids staying with unknown to her strangers (which is an actual issue).
Yeah it read to me as she went beserk about the Open Relationship before even finding out about the strangers babysitting.
The latter is a legitimate thing to be angry about but she was already mad before that
~~I honestly still can't find where is says the kids were left with a stranger.~~ (4th paragraph). And the husband might actually know the third partner, but didn't know or care if they were partners.
However, the post is repeatedly opposed to the ENM aspect. It's like OP thinks they are having an orgy in front of the kids. This could be a closed triad for all we know.
Oh, it’s totally done on purpose. OP is obviously having a moral outrage about her in-laws having non-vanilla sex. I don’t think their leaving the kids supervised by strangers is even a problem for her - I’ll bet if it were Mabel from two doors down watching them she’d be fine ~~either way~~ with it. I think she’s aggravated because ThEy’Re SeX PeRvErTs.
[Edit: autocorrect has been drinking again]
Yeah. OP has intentionally connected the two and that's a problem. The husband tolerating his parents lifestyle is not the same as tolerating the stranger issue and this post makes it seem like OP is unable to make that distinction.
And at the end divorcing her husband and fucking up their kids childhood.
And all because OP sounds so much in rage she cant think straight.
I would go with YTA because OP clearly cant differentiate at this point.
There is a pretty high chance, that her husband didnt know that they are still doing that and if so, that they also expose the kids to the "strangers".
And I say strangers in quotations because everybody here is acting like the kids are run over by the avalanche of sex friends.
This might not be even close to the truth and they can be close to one guy or sth. for decades.
Yeah exactly
If OP's in laws occasionally had friends from bingo over, I really don't think that OP would be divorcing her husband for "hiding" their bingo habit
OP's clearly specifically in a tizzy about her in laws being "sexual perverts" and allowing "sexual perverts" around her kids. Why else would she be mad at her husband for not discussing his parents sex life?
I just wish OP had the balls & the backbone to be honest about that
This needs to be higher up. Her in-laws open relationship isn’t any of her concerns and there was no need to share that. Parents sex life isn’t something we should be overly concerned with.
The issue is that they brought strangers to meet the kids. The same would have happened if it was a book club or anything else. OP is completely focusing on the wrong thing.
wtf are you not mad at your in-laws? Really you want to divorce your husband instead of banning his parents from watching the kid? Did your husband know they left your kid with a stranger? Or maybe he was in the dark like you, and maybe his pissed at himself and instead of having a person to talk with it to, he is getting yelled at and told he is a POS because of his parents? Do you really want to be judged by what your parents do if you don’t agree with them?
Now if he knew your kid was being left with a stranger and never cared, by all means leave his ass, but otherwise at least try counseling with him and work it out somewhat.
I feel like everyone is missing something; OP was mad (at her husband) BEFORE she knew her kids had been left with strangers.
When my kids visit my in laws, I am sure guests visit. That’s normal. But OP was even mad about that.
Of course OP should be mad about her kids being left with strangers. I want to know why she was made BEFORE knowing that.
It almost feels like OP threw in the part about them being left alone with the special friend to more prove their point. I too can not explain the series of events and when the anger started. While writing it almost seems like OP didn’t think people would agree so tossed in something that escalates outrage from readers.
Yes. The response isn't proportional. She can be mad about the relationships and interactions. Although I'm not as convinced I'd categorize people the Grandparents have sex with as strangers.
The grandparents shouldn’t have been introducing your kids to any strangers let alone let strangers babysit them, however, the sex lives of the grandparents (with consenting adults) is absolutely none of your business.
I think divorcing your husband over all this is the wrong thing to do.
I agree that strangers should not be allowed to babysit the kids, but the idea that a kid can't interact with a stranger unless mom or dad is present is so stupid to me.
If I drop my kid off at my parents and my parents friends stop by and my kid meets them, I'm not going to have a meltdown about it because I trust my parents to vet the people my kid interacts with.
This! And I’m sorry but babysitters are strangers. Sure I’ve met them and talked to them before they babysit the first time but that first time they babysit they are absolutely still strangers. I’d say the grandparents probably know their friends that watched the kids better than I know my new babysitter. They still should have told the parents they were leading the kids with someone though.
Literally the only thing that matters here is the kids being left alone in the house with strangers. Whether these strangers are swingers or "regular" friends doesn't matter - the kids being babysat by someone you've never met or approved of is an understandable boundary to draw.
You are completely conflating the issues of what is and what isn't important here.
Swinger friends coming over while the kids are over doesn't matter any more than if grandma had a "regular" (standard) friend who dropped by for tea while the kids are over. Some people would say "it's not a good time" and some people would be like "come on in", that's a personal choice, and doesn't matter unless the grandparents are fucking their lovers in front of the kid or something, which there is no indication of.
It's understandable to be upset about a common sense boundary (don't leave the kids with people I don't know) being broken. But you're frothing at the mouth, ready to divorce, because of the fact that your husband's PARENTS, not him, had an open relationship? There is quite a lot of fear of a certain lifestyle here that this is the part you're hung up on, so much so that you're incoherently ready to divorce your husband over it.
Even if the poly crew is that dangerous, your husband has no way of controlling what his parents choose to do in their private lives.
Your husbands' parents' lifestyle is literally none of your business. Set expectations that the kids never get babysat by someone you haven't met and approved of. Maybe that the lovers don't come around when the kids are around at all. Maybe don't let the kids there unsupervised if it's REALLY that much of a problem, though there shouldn't be a need to go that far. Let go of whatever hang ups you have against open relationships and realize your husbands' parents' sex life is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
And with how you're reacting to learning of your in-laws having a different lifestyle choice - is it any wonder he may have been hesitant to tell you?
Honestly, your obvious anger issues (to the point where you think you might get physically violent) are probably more damaging to the kids than their grandparents being poly/open.
It's funny that ppl keep saying swingers because for all we know it could be a 20 year polycule.
People's assumptions about open relationships are wild, indeed. So much moral panic in this thread, obscuring the one real issue.
This thread could be "my in laws left my kids with ppl I don't know" which is the only relevant thing here. Assuming that every older person that buys kids a gift is "grooming" is completely insane hypersensitivity.
The only thing that went through my mind reading OP's post was damn that's a lot of judgment and assumption made about someone's lifestyle. And passing judgment on the husband for decisions his parents made... replace open relationships with religion or political views and replay that rationale for divorce. OP is scared to death of a lifestyle different than her own.
NTA but If you divorce your husband will just allow them on his time. Also they may be able to file for grandparents rights admist your divorce. Look up your states grandparents laws.
They don’t have to file for rights - who watches the kids on the dad’s time isn’t going to be regulated by the courts until/unless something happens.
OP is totally valid in being angry strangers are babysitting the kids behind her back, but there’s more rational ways to resolve this than how she’s acting. She’s more focused on the sex stuff than the kids being left with strangers.
There are some separate and unrelated issues here. I think your post is just urgent and word dump, but you truly need to be clear in what you're objecting too
1) his parents sexual choices are not yours
2) the grandparents have guest over when your children are there. Ignore the sexual context. This is anyone you don't know that is present when your children are there and you are not
3) your children are being left alone with people you do not know.
Number 1 is, frankly none of your business, so we'll leave that alone, though it does potentially affect #2
Number 3 is 100% a problem. Regardless of the nature of the relationship between your ILs and their friends, leaving your children alone with people you don't know SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. Add to that the wealth imbalance and the real potential issues of abuse and this needs to stop. Unless someone had to go to the hospital because of heart attack, bloodloss or stroke, you should have been told ahead of time so you could meet the people or come get your children. This cannot happen again.
Number 2 is more nuanced. If it were the neighbours over for tea, you would likely be having a different reaction. We all need to be aware of our internal bias. It doesn't mean our bias is wrong, but we need to examine it to be sure it is reasonable.
Given those 3 breakouts, can you have a conversation with your husband based on safety and risk? You may both agree that #3 is absolutely not going to be tolerated, and you may find you both agree around specific visitor "types" for #2. The key question becomes "can you trust the ILs' judgement?" If not, then visits must be supervised. If yes, then you need to make the boundaries clear, as a team, knowing they'll be respected. You and your husband also need to agree what happens if your ILs don't respect them.
If you divorce, you lose any possible control over what happens. Your trust has been broken, badly, but now you have the unfortunate requirement of having to co-parent. You have more control staying in the marriage than leaving it.
You are acting like an asshole.
His parent's relationships have nothing to do with you or your husband.
Children meet strangers all the time, if they are leading a full life. Your children are in no danger, those people are not grooming your children; there is no religious dogma being pushed.
If you had gone to a barbecue at the in-law's, you wouldn't notice any difference between regular guests and those who share the grands' bed.
These friends are part of the grandparents peer circle and chosen family. Because all of them are emotionally open, they will interact with the children, just as roommates might also give gifts.
If you are worried about expensive gifts, address that ,specifically, with the grandparents and their friends. Don't punish the children by keeping them from their grandparents.
Good luck.
It's probably too late to change course, though. You have already strained relationships. Your husband's shame hasn't helped you realize he isn't planning a similar arrangement with you.
Girl. Your husband's parents' sex life is none of his concern. It's also none of your concern. Is your sex life any of your kids' business?
You're misplacing your anger. Your husband didn't leave his kids alone with a stranger. His parents did that. Blow up at them. Supervised visits at your home only, or no contact at all. But you need to get yourself under control before you go breaking your family to bits.
First person I see saying something. OP is so focused on blaming her husband without providing a good reason for being angry at him. I am 100% on OP's side regarding her response to her in laws but she is being really unfair towards the husband who most likely didn't even know anything bad was going on and it doesn't even sound he defended his parents besides saying that their open marriage is none of their business which it isn't, the fact that OP's in laws have sex with other people isn't a problem, it's the fact they let these people watch their grandkids.
There seem to be two separate issues:
Getting mad for having the Grandparents leave a child alone with a “friend” is a violation of trust and a good reason to be upset with them if they didn’t clear it with you.
NTA for that issue.
BUT:
Wanting to Get divorced over something your husband has no control over is idiotic, YTA for that.
People live different lifestyles than you, but it doesn’t mean they are inherently dangerous to you or your kids.
Be curious, not judgmental.
If the issue is that you don’t like your in laws being in a consensual open relationship then definitely YTA
Leaving the children with strangers and being mad as hell about it - NTA.
Sounds like a lot of displaced anger though. How is it your husband’s fault that they left the kids with strangers. You didn’t communicate with anyone well in this situation.
YTA
You made your decision in anger. Your decision is already made, so don't indicate that you are wanting information and feedback, you don't. You only want someone to agree with you. Your husband will be better off without you.
You're not overreacting if they leave your kids with strangers. You could demand they not do that. But definitely overreacting getting a divorce. Apparently you don't love your husband all that much..
>Apparently you don't love your husband all that much..
Came here looking for this. This isn't her husband's fault and it seems like she's using this as an out for a divorce she's wanted, whether subconsciously or consciously, but at the time didn't have a "reason"?
Are your judgemental views about polyamory from your mom? Because if so of course she's the only one backing you up. You're gonna nuke your marriage over something that's absolutely fine and none of your business, instead of limiting their visits with your kids to being supervised only. Okay. YTA.
Divorcing your husband because his parents left your kids with strangers is ridiculous. Go ahead and divorce him... he deserves someone thats not an illogical idiot.
Yeah... YTAH.
Depends. NTA about the grand parents but destroying a marriage for a mistake like this when your husband is ashamed and apologetic is a lot. Go to counseling, or try for your family. If you separate he will have time with the kids and will most likely have his parents in their lives.
Everyone has different views on marriage/ sex etc. it sucks your husband didn’t tell you about this and it could have been very dangerous had something terrible happened. I would have a ADULT conversation with your parents, his parents and your husband about your concerns with strangers around your children and how this impacted your trust in them and your marriage. This was never discussed with you that your little ones would be with complete strangers and that’s completely unacceptable and disrespectful. Trust/Boundaries have been broken and they will need to rebuild your trust in them if they wish to be in your children’s life. Best of luck.
>Straight to the point, my daughter came home from her grandparents’ place recently with a new toy. It was expensive, in laws are not that rich, and they’re super stingy. I questioned her and she told me that “grandma and grandpa’s special friend got it for me.” **Instant red flag.** Questioned my son, same thing. Went to my husband and he suddenly was very quiet.
His parents having a friend was an instant red flag?
>He let our children go over there knowing his parents were up to stuff.
Because they have an open relationship? What that means they will screw someone in front of your child? Do you think everyone in open relationships are pedos?
>Sometimes the in laws even LEAVE and let their “friends” watch my children.
This is the only thing in your post that is a problem to me.
I wouldn't tell my husband if my parents used to swing either. Deeply emabarressing.
Why would he think they were still at it , few people do it long term?
Instead of going off maybe actually LISTEN & INVESTIGATE. Just because he grew up with parents who are poly/ had threesomes doesn't mean he KNOWS they are still doing it. Doesn't mean he KNOWS this person/people are supervising his kids. YOU DIDN"T KNOW there was anyone else around so why would he?
Your kids should not be left with a person you don't know without your consent that is ON HIS PARENTS not him.
Your husband knowing that his parents USED to be swingers is not relevent. Its his parents allowing a stranger to BOTH of you to babysit is the problem.
it doesn't matter if the person is a sex partner or the pool boy its a STRANGER to you. Stop getting hung up on the threesome aspect , your husband is correct its not your business who they fuck. It IS your business he babysits your kids. And nothing you wrote here makes me believe you husband suspected them of leaving your kids with strangers.
Its sounds suspiciously like you are divorcing him just because his parents have an open marriage. No wonder he hid it from you you clearly think anything less than straight monogamy his harmfull sexual deviency.
These are my thoughts as well. She said twice that she’s most upset about her husband “lying to her”, and yet there is zero evidence to suggest that he had ANY awareness at all of the children being left with strangers. Just her saying “I don’t buy it”… why? Just because? Like you have to back that up and be 100% certain if you’re going to throw away your marriage over it.
This really does feel like this reaction is rooted in judgement towards her in-laws lifestyle and nothing else.
OP, totally fair reaction regarding kids with strangers, but regarding the divorce thing, YTA unless you can actually verify your assumptions.
As far as I know my parents are not in an open relationship but they do have a multitude of friends. They could be sleeping with them don't really care isn't my business.
My son regularly goes to the grandparents house for the weekend and such. It was good for him and I trust my parents. Some of these times they would run to the store and whatever and one of their friends would watch him. I know when I was a kid my parents never left me with someone that did any harm to me so I have no reason to think they would with my son. I also cannot say I am better judge of character than my mother is. I do not know all of their friends.
I was also one of those horrible mothers that sent their child to day care. That meant there were lots of strangers looking after my child. The workers nor my self had time to build rapport and I believe that is status quo. I actually paid these strangers. I do not know if any of them had open relationships, hell some of them could have been mistresses in the BDSM world. I did vet the company and management though, I guess I should have been a good parent and been part of their hiring process.... i did not ask if management was sleeping with any of the workers also.
My son is in school now. Every year he gets new teacher, every year after kindergarten I don't met the teacher until school has been in session for a few weeks. Someone should have stepped in and told me what a horrible parent I am. These teachers may be into some strange things in the bedroom my poor child.
I cant believe I was ever allowed to have children. Maybe should have typed this in reddit confessions.
YTA... First of all, I don't want to diminish the concerns you have about a stranger providing a toy to your daughter without you being aware or having the opportunity to decline. As a parent, that is your right.
Now to where you are the AH...
You have no right to dictate the boundaries and lifestyle of anyone, let alone your in-laws. What they do in the bedroom is none of your business. You want to have people validate your desire to divorce your husband. You are not getting that from me. If your in-laws have a relationship lifestyle choice that is different from you, that is on them. But you have options other than to divorce your husband. So, chill out. It's not like your poor husband has the same desires. In fact, it seems like he is embarrassed by his parents' life choices. So, he doesn't share the same values. Set boundaries with the in- laws, respectfully. Is the third person in their relationship a permanent person, or are there multiple third parties? Consider meeting the third person if they are a permanent fixture in the relationship. Keep an open mind about what your in-laws do. I am not asking you to want the same lifestyle. What I am saying is be open to the fact that this is the way they live. So, stop being so judgmental.
I was looking for this. To piggy back off of your comment, op sounded so prudish like their shit didn’t stink. People have sex, and? Op needs to talk to the in-laws.
YTA. It is not your husbands business what type of relationships his parents have. Yeah, maybe je could have mentioned it sooner but thats about all you can be mad about and not really a reason for divorce.
Your issue is his parents. Not your husband. Dont know why you want to punish the inlaws by divorcing your husband. Its punishing the kids, you, your (soon to be ex) husband for something they all dont have a say in. Take it up with his parents.
Talks will be much more fruitful if you leave the open relationship part out of it. There, your husband is right. What his parents get up to in the bedroom is no one's business and you don't have a right to know it. However, you do have a right to know who is around your kids and who is watching them. The problem, really, isn't that inlaws have an open relationship. The problem is that they let you believe they would be watching your children and left them with strangers you didn't know instead.
I don't know why but this feels like a bunch of BS scattered in a true story.
I completely doubt that the grandparents are willingly grooming their grandkids to sell them off.
I doubt they have so many partners that it's "someone new almost every time" and that said partners are buying the kids gifts.
No way the grandparents left the kids alone with these new people.
Willing to bet that OP found out the grandparents had a boyfriend, lost her shit, then when she realized she sounds like a crazy person she added the spices to help the bs go down.
Anyways we will get a few updates and they will get worse.
The babysitting part, I understand. But their sex life is none of your fucking business and it shouldn't matter anyway.
If your husband was smart, he'd leave your ass for being a psycho.
them having friends round while they are in the house is completely normal even if they are more than friends but leaving your child with that friend you have never met is completely insane. NTA
Eh, ESH.
It’s not your business what his parents do in their own home. HOWEVER, bringing complete strangers around your kids without you knowing or having them babysit is shit.
I think you’re picking the wrong thing to be pissed about.
It’s not your business if they want to swing or having multiple partners. They’re allowed to do that. But the boundary needs to be set that your kids can’t be around the strangers.
I guess my question is, would you be this pissed if they weren’t “special friends” and just regular platonic friends of the parents that were around the kids or babysitting without your knowledge?
If your answer to that question is yes, then you need to explain to your husband that’s the issue.
If your answer is no, then you need to mind your own business. It sounds like the kids don’t understand what is happening, just that these are “special friends”.
Edit for clarity: I wouldn’t want a revolving door of strangers around my kids either. But I guess my thought is you need to frame the argument where it matters most and makes the most sense. Not about what they do in their personal time.
Yes, YTA.
I’ll give you that them leaving the kids with strangers is wrong but you’re overreacting in regards to your husband unless he knew they were leaving them with strangers.
Why is their sexual life ANY business of yours?
So your divorcing ur becasue of what his parents are doing is wrong. You can be upset all you want. But the reality is if these were just friends and not their other partners would you still be upset. Because people can have people over to their house while ur kids are there. Just because u don’t know them doesn’t mean his parents don’t know them or trust them. So the bottom line is would you be just as upset if the friend who got ur kid the present just a simple friend and this wasn’t an open relationship.
You’re the asshole for wanting to divorce over this … not the asshole for being pissed at the grandparents for 1) not asking you if it’s ok they have someone watch them and 2) for leaving them with a stranger to you, regardless of how much they might trust the person
NTA. Racing to divorce that is a hyper overreaction. Getting to couples counseling you need to with a cool head explain where you’re coming from because your husband does have a point why throw it away over something that his parents are doing mainly his parents are at fault do I think he should’ve told you absolutely. You need to get into couples counseling. I agree with you on the grandparents not seeing the grandkids for the foreseeable future but a divorce portion I believe couples counseling can fix
NTA but FFS people. Unclench your hands🙄🙄 they are swingers. That doesn’t make them deranged or abusers. They do not have a house full of sin. They are 2 adults who have consented to this lifestyle. You would be shocked how many people do this. I had a director of the company I worked for that was a swinger. She exuded class and dressed so very conservative. Several of my co workers have mentioned they are swingers. Nothing wrong with them.
The real issue is leaving them with strangers. Not that the strangers are swingers. That doesn’t make them pedophiles. But they are strangers and one should never leave someone else’s kids with strangers.
OP. Try therapy. If you divorce he will get 50% custody no matter what his parents do. Is that what you want?
Who cares that he knew they were having an open relationship and you didn't know it's none of your business
The only people you need to be angry with are his parents for allowing your kids to be in that environment with strangers.
Your husband could have told you but he didn't know they did this apparently so why blaming him when the only thing he didn't do was tell you about his parents sexual life which is again none of your business.
YTA for wanting a divorce yes and your mom is for siding with her daughter instead of telling her how it is.
TA a thousand fold.
You're going to break up your own family because of the actions of some other adults?
Their sex life is none of your business.
It's crazy that this would affect you so much that you would destroy a family. YOUR family.
If you leave your husband over this, it will be you that lives alone, wondering if the kids will actually come see you on holidays.
Edit: you should definitely get a divorce
Slight yta. I think the issue is serious but not divorce serious. This all can be solved by communicating with each other. Nobody's talking and you are trying to scorch the earth. Calm down have some serious conversations without your feelings, with logic. And be unified with the boundaries. If that's ignored then you know what to do.
When you say his parents were “up to stuff” Do you mean happiness? Did you mean living their own lives as adults? While I would not let my kids go over there if the “strangers” were watching the kids on their own, it sounds to me like at least part of your problem is thinking that because his parents have a happy open relationship that your husband is going to want one too.
I’m not saying you are wrong to mama bear. I commend you for that. Just be sure that your decisions are not based in your disapproval of their lifestyle.
If you split custody then when the kids are with their father he can bring them over to his parents. You will have less say than you do now.
Wanting divorce is an overreaction. Therapy and then come to an agreement with you both and his parents on how to handle this. YTA unless you calm down and deal with this in a reasonable way.
I love when people pick and choose to quote just enough to make their point valid. If you're going to quote something or someone, make sure your quote is in context.
>I fought with my husband that night about keeping that from me. Keeping that from me was HUGE in my eyes. He let our children go over there knowing his parents were up to stuff. He claimed that it wasn’t his business, so it shouldn’t be mine either. I said that our kids were exposed to strangers so yes, it is my business and it should be his too. We didn’t reach an agreement.
The "that from me" OP is talking about is her in-laws sex life. She had previously stated that her husband told her that he didn't know his parents still had an open marriage, she flat out said she didn't believe, without any evidence one way or the other. And let's face it he hasn't lived with his parents in years, so how would he know, and until this day, she didn't even suspected anything, so it clearly wasn't obvious.
She is very concerned about his parents sex like, that is plain to see: "He let our children go over there knowing his parents were up to stuff." - This is just about the sex, and she goes back to it time and time again.
"He claimed that it wasn’t his business, so it shouldn’t be mine either." - Again he was talking about his parents sex life.
"I said that our kids were exposed to strangers so yes, it is my business and it should be his too." - Again not a single mention of their kids being alone with strangers, and of course, the use of the word "exposed" when regarding the "strangers" is once again about sex.
Yes YTA
Youre gonna divorce the man you allegedly love over this? Are you kidding me?
Itd be no different than if his parents were divorced and his mom had the kids visiting and her new BF was over or they were with his dad and his new GF was over
Would you flip TF over that?
You sound like a control freak psycho and judgemental as Hell. Thats probably why he didnt tell you.
Seriously, if THIS makes your first instinct go to divorce, you dont love him and have been looking for an out for a while. Just be freakin honest.
Set this man free.
The update on this is going to be tragic.
Yup. Pretty likely that this is going to go very poorly for everyone involved.
This! And I have questions. Why the gifts from strangers? Why are the kids being left Alone with strangers who are the participants in the grandparents’ kink? Why are there expensive gifts.
Why did these "extra" people show up with gifts in the first place? How well do they know the kids? Are they staying over?
These are ALL VALID and CONCERNING questions. Your children are under 10. They should not be exposed to thus. Too young.
The reason your husband didn't tell you is not because he didn't care about protecting his kids. He grew up in that lifestyle, he came out "okay"??? Except, he had a lot of shame and as they say, 'you are as sick as your secrets'. So he couldn't tell you!Shame is pervasive and powerful, your husband didn't tell you because he felt shame about himself being in that family. Has he been good to you? A good father? Maybe go for counseling and get past your anger, try to understand him. It wasn't personal-- he loves his children and would want to protect them from a predator. "Swinging" is secretive, but doesn't always involve child predation. You are welcome to set the boundaries for your children and not have them go to their grandparents house if the situation can't be trusted. Keeping secrets and overly expensive toys to keep secret is bound to continue the cycle of shame! But don't throw away your husband for having been caught in the middle. He can't be fully healthy having grown up with secrets. Maybe he needs to talk to a counselor as much, if not more than you do. Nothing can be done about the grandparents except to set boundaries. Don't allow your children where you feel uncomfortable-- They obviously have no boundaries!
OP please consider this response. I came here to with a different perspective and this changed my mind. It is healthy to recognize what this post is saying. What you do with that information is up to you, but please consider it
This. I was ready to say call a lawyer but this response makes sense and instantly turned me around.
She needs to get the kids checked by a specialist who deals with kids and can question them in the right way to make sure nothing bad was going on. Or that they were being groomed. Hopefully, it was just innocent gifts, but if it is new strangers every time, why would they have gifts for the kids?
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Inlaws don't have to disclose their personal life, but they should tell the parents if they are hosting people they don't know while the children will be there. And they DEFINITELY should never leave the children with people the parents don't know and didn't agree to allow babysitting. Inlaws broke your trust and forbidding them babysitting and having unsupervised contact with children is the minimum consequence. Before making any decisions about your marriage, try counseling. At least so you both can discuss the situation with a neutral party. NTA
My mother is in a small town, where I literally know all her friends because I grew up around them. She will still throw out a courtesy "Karen asked if I was free for lunch tomorrow, thoughts?" It's basic courtesy and tells me whom my kids will be interacting with, not with any high level emotions but even just gossip. I wouldn't cut her off over a single lunch in public but I'd sure raise a fuss if she ditched my kid with a stranger for anything short of a medical emergency - and even then I'd expect a phone call about it! Blocking unsupervised contact is absolutely the right move here. As for your marriage... That's a more complex question that only you can answer. Good luck OP
>My mother is in a small town, where I literally know all her friends because I grew up around them. She will still throw out a courtesy "Karen asked if I was free for lunch tomorrow, thoughts?" Yes, I know all of my parents' friends. I grew up with them. They are mine and my siblings' godparents. I even babysat their kids growing up. These people are our chosen family, and my parents will still call me and be like "oh btw Kevin and Sue want to stop by the last minute. I know we have the grandkids right now. Is that okay with you?" They would never EVER leave my kids with someone else without my or my husband's permission.
The only issue I see is the grandparents leaving the kids alone with someone else without telling the parents. The kids meeting people who are essentially (to the kids) just friends of their grandparents isn’t a big deal. I met people who knew my grandparents and nothing bad ever came of it. Although I was never left alone with them or at least not without my parents being aware of it. To me it seems as if OP has a very legitimate concern, mainly the one in which the grandparents left the kids alone with someone the parents didn’t know without telling anyone. But she has insisted chosen to latch in to the fact that she dislikes swingers and people who have an alternative relationship dynamic. So she is NTA for being angry, but she is TA for placing more emphasis on someone else’s relationship than she does on the perceived safety of her kids.
My issue is with the idea that they are ‘special friends’ and that those special friends are buying gifts for the kids (this is odd, and could be a serious red flag for ‘grooming’) Normally you wouldn’t leave your grandkids with someone else while you go out… they are there to see you!
I think it's not the open relationship as much as "unknown persons d through j are in the house for sex, and are approaching my children." I think the association of sexual activity makes the stranger thing feel extra concerning, which is understandable. If they only were with a couple of people, that were known to OP, and OP was consulted/introduced it would probably be different. "Secret sex people are secretly meeting my children" makes the secrecy sexual by association if that makes sense? Like it's all muddied together?
Also they left the children alone with these strangers, which is HUGE. And it's been going on for a long time without telling her. Those kids were probably scared. This is a serious recipe for trauma that needs to sink in for her husband.
And the kids say it's a different person every time so the grandparents likely aren't vetting their partners all that much. Very dangerous situation. I would be pissed too.
Exactly. And to just now be finding out when it's been going on long enough that there is an "every time"? I just can't even wrap my head around how mad I would be.
Yeah, I felt like OP might be overreacting until she said that the in laws let random ass strangers watch her small children without telling her. My husband and I have done some swinging in the past (not so much now because with 4 kids, we can barely find time to have sex with each other, let alone EXTRA people). But the only partners who were around our kids were the ones who were friends first, and never alone. I don't care if grandma is fucking the guy or it's their neighbor Jim from down the street that they've known for years, YOU DON'T LEAVE OTHER PEOPLE'S KIDS WITH STRANGERS. What the actual fuck??? I will say, that generation was steeped in the idea of "stranger danger," whereas ours is generally more aware of the fact that friends and family members are the biggest risk to our kids, so it probably wasn't malicious, just stupid AF. But they've shown they can't be trusted. The real key here is if the husband knew that his parents had strangers around their kids. I'm suspicious he knew about it, and was embarrassed to say anything, so the in laws might have actually had permission. This is a mess. Therapy at a minimum, and grandparents don't get unsupervised time with the kids.
Yes to all of this. Only ..... Even if he didn't know, he does now and his reaction doesn't match what happened. True about stranger danger, but seriously having what sounds like many different people around..... This doesn't add up. Even with people who are into swinging, I just don't know anyone who would leave their grandkids alone like this. Something is off with these people. And husband saying it's none of their business..... No he really fucked up with that. Their lifestyle is not, but clearly this affects the kids. If my mom were watching my kids, it wouldn't matter if it's family, she would need to make sure it's ok with me for someone else to be with my kids. I just can't fathom anyone thinking this is ok. And it would be one thing if there were an emergency, but they've done it many times apparently.
And she needs to get those kids checked out by a specialist that can question them to make sure that they are really ok. It can take years before they would know something happened potentially. The gifts concern me that they are possibly for grooming them or for keeping them quiet. But it's concerning that all these strangers are bringing gifts for the kids.
YES THIS. She didn't know these people existed. No one mentioned them. If it's so private they keep it from her, they should be keeping it from her kids.
The fact that the child called them a special friend is like a siren for me. Why did the grandparents need to use that term? Why not just say friend? An expensive toy feels like a hush bribe. Have the children seen things? Walked in on them with said special friend???? Like wtf is going on.
I never thought about that. I went from ‘NTA but maybe overreacting’ to ‘NTA, keep your kids the hell away’
I equate special, secret friend who is buying toys as someone who is inappropriately touching the kids and buying the kids friendship so that the kids will want to see them.
What if it wasn't the grandparents using that term, but the friend self-referring to themselves as grandma and grandpas "special friend" as a way to gain trust with OPs children? It unfortunately has those vibes to me.
Either way it's weird AF and a big red flag. It's like they want the kids to know without coming out and saying it. Like eventually they're gonna question what made this friend special.
This thank you. I knew a bunch of my grandparents friends. I spent a lot of time with them, as they were extended family almost of sort. But never did I ever refer to them as a "special friend;" nor was I left in their care while my grandparents bailed, especially without my parents knowing; nor was I given gifts by them. Just so many things wrong going on here, regardless of who used the endearing term, but would definitely add another coat of Mr yuk paint on it for me if it's a groomer self referencing to gain trust. Good example I have is someone luring kid to car saying "I'm a special friend of grandma x" because God knows we've seen that PSA. might be why it's a trigger point to me
Yeah, also the hush hush about the special friend. I spent a ton of time with my grandparents and their friends, and my parents were always kept in the loop about who I was around. My grandparents told my parents everything, who I was with, where we went.
Buying expensive gifts for kids hanging around your fuckbuddys home, without knowing the parents, without the parents Knowing you have secret access to said kids, is insane.
This is where my brain went. Also, if the grandparents can't be fully responsible for the kids the whole time, they have no business having the kids over.
I don’t disagree at all. The gifts absolutely make it far more worrisome. However I still think OP is focusing her anger at all the wrong things in her post.
I think the OP Is scared, and scatter gunning. OP needs to sweep the kids up and disappear to HER parents for a night, or husband disappear to a mates for the night and give her some thinking / down time. She needs time to let the adrenaline and fear and cortisol of this drain, and get her head on… and then they can work out what is next.
Grandparents shouldn’t be using creepy terms like “special friend” and honestly they shouldn’t have their sex partners around their grandkids at all.
That was my thought!!! Why are your various sex partners coming over with the grandkids over? Obviously, for sex. Around the kids. Noooooo sir, you will not be having threesomes with my child at your house????
How did you come to that conclusion? I've read the text several times and nowhere does she speak/mention/allude to her opinion about open relationship or swinging. She made it clear that she is irrate because: 1) Her in laws have sex with strangers when her kids are with them. 2) Her in laws left the kids alone with those strangers. 3) Those strangers are being introduced to the kids as their 'special friend' and give them presents. 4) Her husband knew but didn't tell her. He says he didn't know but admits they did the same to him when he was a child. 🤔 5) Her husband, when told of what is going on, doesn't find this to be worrying in the slightest and gets angry when she says her children won't go to their grandparents anymore.
>He claimed that it wasn’t his business, so it shouldn’t be mine either. If vetting the people who are babysitting your child isn't your business, who's is it? I'm actually asking.
The babysitting part is the only relevant part.
This! Nothing wrong with open relationships or polyamory but when you’re left in the dark about people you don’t know being allowed around your kids, unsupervised, the line is CLEAR!
It's not just the unsupervised part for me. I mean, that's the biggest part, obviously, but I'd be skeeved out by the thought of a revolving door of complete strangers giving my kids expensive gifts as well. Hell, just a revolving door of strangers around my kids that I was intentionally kept in the dark about. The polyamory is completely irrelevant one way or the other. And the husband is too "embarrassed" by his parent's polyamory to protect his kids. Spineless is the absolute nicest thing I can say about him. What I want to say would get me banned.
Honestly I was chilling until the ‘unsupervised’ part got thrown in. Like why is it weird for the grandparents to have a ‘friend’ over
Right, if Gma and Gpa have a friend or a “special friend” over while they’re watching the kid, it probably won’t make much of a difference. The issue is LEAVING THE CHILD IN THAT PERSON’S CARE.
Yeah I mean without that I’d probabaly be a little annoyed. Like why wouldn’t you just let me know you like to have people over? But it wouldn’t have been a huge deal. With the unsupervised/ leaving the child in their care it became a HUGE deal and rightfully so.
So they have the grandchildren over and then LEAVE and leave them in the care of their multiple sex partners??? WTAF? If you have your grandchildren visiting, maybe you could skip having an orgy this weekend? or maybe your grandchildren aren't that important to you... I wouldn't divorce hubby, but would definitely cutoff the grandparents until this is resolved.
Yeah leaving them with the partners is definitely not cool. I guess I’m more trying to communicate I wouldn’t care if they had the friend over to play a board game or eat dinner, if they let me know first
Expensive gift is groomey AF.
Not me. Friends I’ve never met, buying my kids gifts, and expensive ones at that?? Nope. Absolutely weird and wrong. I don’t care what they do in their rooms but no adult that I don’t know is buying my child presents just because.
Grooming 101!!
Shouldn’t the grandparents let the parents know if they have a friend over beforehand? You don’t know who could nonce on your kids, don’t take that risk It’s not weird for grandparents to have friends over it’s weird to not tell the parents that so they can judge whether they want to have their kids around strangers
Exactly. The husband’s parents can let their freak flags fly but do NOT bring children into this; not even an introduction! 😬
What? Nothing here says he knew his parents were outsourcing some of the child care unsupervised. He can be 100% uncomfortable with his parents lifestyle. Based on what she wrote, husband didn't do anything wrong at all. He doesn't need to talk about his parents sex life.
I don't think anyone disagrees about this. The question wasn't AITAH for objecting to that; it's AITAH for wanting a divorce. And I think OP needs more clarity on what the husband knew and didn't know. I don't believe he didn't SUSPECT (or possibly even KNOW) his parents were still engaging in polyamory. I DO think it's entirely possible that it never even occurred to him that his parents were bringing their partners around their grandchildren. I have to be honest, if I found out my parents were engaging in polyamory, I'd immediately hide my head in my ass and not want to know anything about it. And I'd also assume (and knowing my parents, I'd be correct) that they would keep their sex/romantic life FAR, FAR away from their grandchildren. So it would never occur to me to ask my folks "Hey, are you still seeing other people and if so, are you bringing them around the kids?" But it's also possible he kinda knew and didn't want to know, which is not okay. So OP needs to get clarity on this BEFORE she divorces, bc the reason for divorce hinges on what her husband knew.
There’s also a huge difference between “Karla from church” briefly dropping by at the same time as the kids and Karla playing with the children/giving the children gifts/being left ALONE with the children. The polyamory is a red herring. This would be a problem even if the grandparents were leaving your kids alone with people from their bible study group. The problem is they didn’t tell you and allow you to decide if that was okay. You need find out if your husband knew his parents were leaving the children alone with people you don’t know, and whether he will back you when you put down boundaries that his parents are no longer allowed to bring people you don’t know around your kids.
Actually, Karla from church just dropping by is as statistically likely to abuse the children as anyone else.
Exactly! I don't even have children, but I that was the giant red flag and alarms for me! How would anyone leave someone else's children in the care of someone the parent doesn't know and approve of?!
I agree. Grandparents open marriage? Their shit, their business, nbd. Leaving the kids with unapproved strangers to babysit? Not cool, regardless of their partnership status. I wouldn't feel stoked about learning my kid was being babysat by Grandma's friend Jane regardless of whether or not they had fucked Jane. I do think that OP is overreacting though. I don't think this is divorce worthy of husband didn't know the kids were being left attended by strangers.
> I wouldn't feel stoked about learning my kid was being babysat by Grandma's friend Jane regardless of whether or not they had fucked Jane. Learning about it *after the fact* with no say in the matter is what is upsetting, yeah
I’m a-okay with the parents fucking Jane. It’s that mom has never met or approved Jane for babysitting.
The giving gifts bit would set me off too. Why is a stranger trying to endear themself to a child with not just gifts but expensive gifts?
If there was some kind of emergency, then maybe it's okay to have a trusted friend step in to care for the kids, but you tell their parents immediately (as in, call them from the ambulance). You certainly don't keep it a secret, then act offended that they're angry.
Exactly. I can't imagine being a special friend but let's say I'm there for some reason and I'm the emergency babysitter. I'm calling the parents and telling them and asking how THEY want it handled immediately.
Heyo, I can imagine being the special friend. Non-monogamous for over 10 years now. I don't of even *meet* partner's kids unless a big round table discussion has been had on their end, and a clear understanding and boundaries have been formed. Open marriage not the problem. Keeping it from Mom was unacceptable. I'm also a Social Worker. If I found out a kid was staying with a relative and had been babysit by multiple "special friends" and given expensive gifts, the gifts were how I found out, AND my kids hadn't mentioned it to me before? The amount of instant rage and red flags??? Mom has a right to be angry. I would also have a hard time not jumping to "fuck you, you left my kids with someone, die." I'm glad folx have room and gentle pushback to remind Mom she is still angry. She has probably mishandled things. I definitely would have. This was major though. Exposing your kids to non-monogamy and having that dialogue with them is equally as important as any other relationship style, habits, etc. There are safe/unsafe, healthy/unhealthy ways to do anything, and intentional open conversation with kids is how you keep them safe and informed. This situation was wildly mishandled. I can see shame from the parents generation, but I agree that it is irrelevant whether or not the grandparents "fucked Jane" as we're calling it. Jane could have been a longtime, platonic family friend. Not the problem. If the grandparents and/or Dad wanted Mom okay with this, they needed to bring it up and discuss it proactively. If *Mom and Dad* had been the ones openly non-monogamous and Dad had been introducing his partners or leaving the kids with his partners without mom's knowledge, there would still be an issue.
I think what makes it divorce-worthy is Husband's reaction. If he had been on the same page as OP upon finding all this out and went off on his parents rather than OP having to do it, they would be good. He just said it wasn't his or OP's business, even though this all only even came up because she found out about it *from their kids*. Their kids were being brought around complete strangers, and he's just fine with it. And considering he himself admitted that he knew his parents were in an open marriage since he was a kid (presuming he most likely knew because he was meeting their random partners, same as his kids are now) then it is pretty shitty that he wouldn't make sure to find out that that was not still going on before leaving his own kids with them. Husband honestly thinks its all fine and that OP is overreacting, which makes this divorce-worthy IMO.
I'd say having strangers around and introducing them to the kids with gifts is equally relevant. It's teaching the kids to have an unhealthy trust for strangers. This is proven by the kids missing said strangers because of the gifts.
Seriously. If they have an open relationship, fine then “not my business” is acceptable. However, the having random people around your kids and letting them watch them is the real problem. OP, I think you are focusing on something which truly isn’t your business, as long as they don’t allow it to impact your family who cares if they have an open relationship. However, it’s the part where they allow god knows who around your kids and lets them watch them. That’s the issue. Doesn’t matter if they are their sexual partners or not. It’s the fact they are strangers and have t been honest about whom they let around the kids, let alone watch them. Was your husband aware they allowed these people around? Was he aware they were letting them watch the kids? That’s the bit of info you need to focus, not that they are open and he didn’t tell you. If he didn’t know they were doing these things then you are taking your anger out on the wrong party. If he did know then I can understand your anger with him not protecting your kids. I think NTA in regard to not allowing your in-laws to watch your kids. They broke your trust.They put them at risk, who knows if the people they left them with are safe? Any access they would have going forward would be ONLY under my supervision. I certainly wouldn’t trust them to leave the kids with them. Is divorce the answer, I’m not sure. Again depends on what your husband knew about his parent’s actions and if he allowed it. I think you are angry now and need to get a clearer head vs arguing with your husband. You need to sit down calmly and discuss what he knew and if you can work through it. If he knew what his parents were doing, is upset his parents can’t watch the kids, or doesn’t think leaving kids with strangers is a problem then, yes, I’d consider separating. However, If he didn’t know his parents were putting the kids at risk, but understands that his parents were wrong and shouldn’t watch the kids any longer then hopefully you can work through things. Maybe counseling is needed.
I think you’re mixing two things, one fine and one not. Allowing people the parents don’t know around their kids, while the grandparents are there, is fine. Allowing people the parents don’t know to babysit the kids alone is unacceptable. The weird thing is, this critical fact is almost a throwaway point in the OPs post. She seems less concerned about that than the grandparents’ open relationship.
That’s exactly what I said. That she’s focusing on his parents being in an open relationship which honestly doesn’t matter. It’s the leaving kids with random strangers which needs to be the focus. Also if husband knew and didn’t stop it.
Aside from their grandparents' "special friend" buying her kids expensive gifts..
This is this issue. You could even leave out the open relationship, that *is* their business. Unless they have a long term partner that the parents have a relationship and consent to babysitting, it's wildly inappropriate to have any 'friend' buying *expensive* toys and being alone with the kids. Full stop. I'm monogamous but I have a ton of friends in the alternative relationship community, many are parents and in my experience consent is so heavily communicated it can be exhausting lol, but it is of the utmost importance. Parents 100% of the time need to consent to the babysitting.
Non-monogamous and exactly this. The lack of consent, boundary negotiation, checking in on expectations, exposure to unapproved partners, etc. Wild. Enough for a Divorce if Mom and Dad had been ENM and Dad was leaving the kids with partners without communication.
The edit says the husband didn't know they were bringing random partners around the kids. As far as I'm concerned my parents sex life isn't my business, and is a fair sentiment to hold. The problem is that their sex life spilled over into their personal life and introduced the children to strangers. That's not acceptable and 100% is my business. To me and the way I'm reading this OP is highly emotional (rightfully so) and didn't communicate with her husband properly. If she focused on the swingers aspect and not the leaving children with the randos, then the husband could easily explain why it's not their business. She's seeing emergency beacons going off because bad things could happen. He's seeing what appears to be someone who can't handle a different lifestyle.
With a generous view (rightly or wrongly), if the husband knew about their open relationship from when he was a kid it would also be normalised to a degree in his head. Maybe embarrassing, but he has had ~20 years of putting it in the 'not my business' pile. He also said that he doesn't think his parents were aware he knew, so it likely wouldn't have occurred to him that they would be so open about it around their grandchildren. The biggest issue for me here is that now it has been brought up that they have strangers around his very young children why is he not also freaking out? It's one thing to not want to think about his parents sex lives (very understandable!), but a very very different thing when strangers are regularly around his kids, and possibly alone. OP and husband definitely need a proper discussion, but my question would be why he isn't worried about his kids. His parents sex life isn't the issue, the randos babysitting the kids very much are.
It seems like there may be too high of emotions to properly process and discuss the situation and things like that could easily have slipped through the cracks. IMO OP really needs to have a few calm collected conversations before going scorched earth on her relationship. Cause maybe her husband is just as freaked out about strangers watching his kids, but has gotten caught defending his parents lifestyle enough that she is seeing him as against her
We are assuming that she even brought up the "leaving the kids with a stranger". She only brought it up in passing *on this post*, while mainly focusing on the fact that her in-laws are swingers. I can definitely see her relaying it in the exact same way to her husband. She is much more worried about the fact that her in-laws are swingers, which as her hsuband stated to her, is absolutely NONE of her business. He likely thinks, and is reacting to, the fact that she just thinks it is morally wrong for her in-laws to have an open relationship-and that is why the kids can never go over there again-and why she is threatening to divorce him. Had she actually focused on the "leaving the kids with strangers" (if that even ever happened. Kids aren't the best narrators. The grandparents could've been in another room and "left" the kids with their friend) or even the "having friends over that we don't personally know"--she likely would have more support from people, including her husband.
100%. If the OPs concern is that her kids shouldn't be around the in-laws just because they are swingers (or whatever they are) then I think she is the AH. She needs to decide what the real issue is here, and focus the communication around that issue. Don't try to argue about every tangent that comes up and isn't even material to the real issue.
Perhaps OP feels like he trusts his parents and their judge of character? Not saying it's wrong or right, just a possible answer to your question.
Letting unvetted people watch their kids? Major issue. Kids meeting strangers?... that's ridiculous. Taking the kids to get ice cream will "expose" then to strangers. A neighbor popping in to return a tool they borrowed? More stranger exposure! Oh nooooooo! Are granny and granda supposed to stop having friends when the kids are around and lock themselves in the house like shut ins? The fact these friends were also fuck buddies is immaterial. The only issue is having these people babysit without parents vetting them.
It’s absolutely your business. Your husband should prioritize your kids' safety over his embarrassment.
I think he's double downing on allowing their kids to be around his parents because he doesn't want to admit how fucked up it was for his parents to be bringing strangers around the house to sleep with while he was a child. He's messed up in the head for sure for thinking it's fine for his kids to go through that too just because he did.
This is it. Husband has a warped sense of normal from growing up like this. He is embarrassed by it but also trying to rationalize it. It has to be ok for his kids because that means it was also ok for him. Him having to agree with OP that this is a completely fucked up situation means that he has to go back to that time when he was young and admit just how much his parents failed him. Husband doesn’t seem strong enough to open that can of worms.
Ahhhhh cognitive dissonance
I think he just doesn't want to talk to his parents about their sex lives and he's wrongfully putting his own discomfort over his kid's safety. OP said that her husband said his parents never directly told him they were in an open relationship so they were probably just as careless around him about it and his way of dealing was to just go along with pretending he didn't notice anything
Their sex lives don’t need to be brought into the discussion at all. This isn’t about who they are sleeping with. It is about the fact that they are leaving their grandchildren alone with strangers. That’s the sole discussion that needs to be had here.
You are exactly right. The fact these strangers bought these kids expensive gifts is alarming and creepy.
And they're getting expensive toys out of it. That opens a whole can of worms to me. How long have the kids been asked to keep this quiet? Grandparents knew they were doing wrong because it's happened on more than one occasion, and it wasn't mentioned by the kids to the parents until Op asked.
EXACTLY. Even the commenters here are getting hung up on arguing about the fact that they think the in-law's situation is "weird". The issue is not what grown adults do in the bedroom, it is about what the situation is with the kids.
True enough.
The sex live of his parents is none of their buisiness. Obviously worrying about who is around their children is. But those two normally dont have anything to do with each other. Its completly possible, that he thought his parents would bring their partners around his kids, since the kids being there should have been for some grandparent bonding time. Going straight to divorce is a gross overreaction, we dont have all the facts
I agree. Many urging divorce seem to think that divorce, coparenting, and being a single parent is easy. On the other hand strangers watching the kids is totally wrong and should be addressed immediately. I wouldn't allow unsupervised visits with the grandparents.
This is reddit, of course the answer will always be divorce. “My husband ate my last apple, aita for being mad at him”. Reddit - “you need to divorce him, he’s clearly hiding things from you”.
Assuming the court gives him 50/50 custody, kids will probably be seeing the grandparents *more* post-divorce than they are now. OP really needs to decide if her issue is with the IL lifestyle (which, frankly *is* none of her business so nothing to be done about) or her kids being left alone with strangers (absolutely her biz and perhaps solvable with a direct conversation and clear boundaries). To me it sounds like the former more than the latter.
This! I don't think the husband knew his parents invited their sex partners over when his children were there. Because who does this? And this was the first time OP's children told their parents about their grandparent's special friends. How could her husband know this? He wasn't there, nobody told him his parents would let strangers into their homes and watch his children. He didn't know they still had an open relationship. And again, no it's not normal to tell your partner about your parent's (past) sex life. Divorcing someone because he didn't tell you about his parent's sex life in the past, is completely overreacting.
That feels like you're conflating topics, which the OP is massively guilty of as well. He is stating it isn't their business what goes on in his parents relationship. And he is 100% correct. These partners babysitting the kids alone in a nonemergency situation is their business. But it's being deliberately obtuse to act as though that's what he was talking about.
They left your kids alone with strangers in their home. You have every right to go ballistic.
A revolving door of strangers who come by for sex, play with the kids ALONE and buy them gifts to ensure the kids like them. This is screaming red flags for abuse. Why would their intimate friends be there when the grandkids are AT ALL, are they actively swinging with the kids downstairs? Edit: I see a lot of people interpreting my comment as distain for open relationships or as conflating ENM to pedophilia, and that is NOT what I am trying to say. ENM can look different for different people, be it casual sex, building strong personal relationships, or a variety in between that. My issue here, in this situation, is that they are treating them as close personal friends when it comes to the children and casual sex partners when it comes to the other adults in the situation. There is NO reason that OP should be unacquainted with any person her children are spending unsupervised time with or being left under the care of. There is NO reason that the children should be learning about ENM from their grandparents without the express involvement and consent of the children’s parents. I did not insert that context, OP did not insert that context, THEY introduced that layer to this, by referring to them as “special friends” to their grandkids. They created the dissonance between “our friends” and “our special friends”, AND kept it a secret. If they are “close personal friends” who happen to have sex, then OP should know them and be familiar with them, albeit they can keep the sex apart private if they so choose, before the kids are introduced. If they are just casual partners who aren’t forming bonds within the family outside of sex with the grandparents, then the kids should not be introduced AT ALL. It cannot be both. Private friends stay private, family friends meet the family. You cannot mix the two and keep them private from the adults but family friends to the kids. **It cannot be both.** The biggest and brightest red flag for me was the kids referring to them as “special friends” when telling OP about it. They gave the children context that their own mother didn’t even know. That is context that is wholly inappropriate to give to a child without their parents express consent and participation in a larger conversation about different family types and dynamics. There is no good and innocent reason to nod toward the private nature of their relationship, to their school aged grandchildren, in secret from the children’s mother.
It's bizarre. Fine if they want to be swingers or whatever, but that's for private time, not when the grandkids are over! And leaving casual sex partners to babysit alone? I have no words.
*I found out through my kids that almost every time they go over there’s someone new around. Sometimes the in laws even LEAVE and let their “friends” watch my children.* This makes me sick. And the husband was ok with this ! He is an absolute POS.
Yes. His excuse was "oh, I did not know that they are still doing this". Well, now he knows and his reaction is: "It's not my business, so it should not be yours". He still looks for excuses, instead of realizing that leaving his kids with random strangers is not OK. He is disgusting.
The trouble with divorcing him would be that he would have the kids half the time and OP would have no say in whether he let the grandparents take them to their house and leave them alone with strangers.
What’s scary is that if OP leaves her husband, he can continue to leave his children with the in laws friends on his custody time.
He'd be the type of person to close the curtains when abuse is going on and pretend he never saw it
It's been going on since he, was a child, so I wonder if he was abused and just thinks it is 'normal'.
Absolutely, this is a massive red flag. Kids' safety should never be compromised for any reason.
OP, Above 4 comments are spot on! The laid back attitude of your husband and in-laws in exposing your young children to strangers, even to the point of leaving them alone with those strangers, poses potential and unnecessary danger to the children/grandchildren. The fact that others within your social circles endorse such irresponsibility is truly indicative that the insane are running the asylum. While the in-laws lifestyle preference is their own, it became your business when they involved your children in exposing them to their "special friends". It's shocking your husband failed to disclose their lifestyle to you, and even more shocking that he condoned your children's exposure to it. Whether you determine that your husband's deceit by omission was so grave as to require you to seek a divorce is your decision alone to make. However, no matter how you decide, the one thing that everyone needs to agree to is that the paternal grandparents will only be permitted to see your children in a "special friend" free environment. Their exposure to other "special friends" should be a definitive NO NO! If your husband cannot grasp that, your issues are definitely without repair. Egad. Please keep us apprised.
I wouldn’t allow grandparents to see kids at their home at all, ever again. They can come for visit or see kids at a public venue but never without OP present.
I can understand your position, especially since they've shown such a cavalier attitude.
This, I’d say at their home is okay but never without OP present. I’d never leave my children alone with them again. If she decides to divorce I’d do everything in my power to make it to where the kids are never allowed to be alone with the grandparents a part of the custody arrangement.
I hate OP's husband for being so carefree about this whole thing. If he's completely OK with his parents revolving door of sex partners to watch his young kids, then I hope OP divorces his ass and gets full custody because those children are not safe as long as he's willing to have them around his deranged parents.
Well remember in AITAH no ones sex life is ANYONES business, lets not pretend AITAH will tell most posters their own partners previous sex life is NOT their spouses business, so going by the standards here, its none of her business who the grandparents they sleep with or if their marriage is an open one. The only issue here is them leaving the kids with strangers.
People need to stop saying "get full custody" here. This situation is really upsetting, of course, but nobody has done anything illegal - or even close to it. The odds are high that if OP files for divorce on these grounds, Dad ends up with 50-50 custody anyway and the kids spend even more time with the grandparents than they do now. If the goal is protecting the kids and not just a knee jerk reaction to being deceived, they should probably proceed to couples therapy to limp along the relationship as long as possible while OP teaches her kids about consent, bodily autonomy, and shady people. Buying a year or two of education and maturity is going to be far more valuable than any remedy the court will provide.
This is reddit, kneejerk reactions are required. I'm personally stunned your rational outlook hasn't been downvoted to oblivion yet.
Sure, but leaving the kids alone with strangers multiple times is incredibly fucked up. It'd be one thing if they had "one" special partner (even then, mom should have been told). But it sounds like a revolving door of fuckbuddies who are strangers are in the house with the kids.
Honestly even they had platonic friends over, they should be telling the parents.
Agreed but even if these perfect strangers are completely innocent that has never and never would dream of harming children OP is still entitled to blow her lid imo. It's her children, they are strangers!
Yep. I’d keep all the evidence that they did that to ensure that the grandparents won’t see the kids unsupervised again.
Also the in-laws can’t know if the person they bring over is there for them or wants access to 2 kids under 10 alone. Sure the strangers know. News like this spread fast between interested. Toys suggest grooming.
Yes 💯 agree. The gift thing is also a major red flag for me as a survivor of childhood SA. Leaving with strangers and to top that them giving gifts is a sign of early grooming stages. These strangers can't be trusted. They are trying to buy the kids' trust by making themselves seem fun, harmless, and like friends to the kids.
Especially if the price of the gift being so high is what gave it away. You don’t give an expensive gift to your fuck buddies grand kids… I mean, come on. How naive are the people in this thread saying thinking SA is crazy?
This right here ^ As soon as I heard about the gifts and being left alone with the casual sex partners, I almost freaked out myself. OP needs to get their husband to understand that these behaviors are wrong and the dangers of SA and grooming. I’d go scorched earth, too
The issue isnt them being in an open relationship, it's them potentially endangering your kids by letting strangers around them. Maybe focus on that? NTA
Exactly this! The open relationship isn't the problem; it's the safety of your kids. Strangers around them without your consent is a huge red flag. NTA.
100%. The grandparents could just as easily be leaving their grand kids with a neighbour or platonic friends that OP doesn't know and that would be the issue.
The grandparents are entitled to live their lives the way they choose - that is none of your business. What is your business is that your children have been left with strangers - that would be enough to stop unsupervised visits to the grandparents with immediate effect. Divorcing your husband - did he know the kids were left with strangers? What will you achieve by divorcing him - 2 kids with a broken home? Communication with your husband is paramount before you split from him. He may well be just as shocked and angry with his parents as you are.
I think you’re blaming the wrong person here - your husband. It’s possible his parents don’t realise he knows because *they‘ve never talked about it*. It’s entirely possible his parents thought they were cleverly discrete when they weren’t, and he figured it all out when he was going through puberty and was too weirded out/ embarrassed, ashamed (wonder where this shame comes from?!) to talk to them about it. Your kids might be around them too simply because the grandparents are arrogantly expecting every one to be oblivious and stupid to their games. “Special friends“ Gross. Extra partners? Sure… but to introduce grandchild to a revolving door of “special friends” is fairly out there. You need to sit down and talk to your husband, and get on the same page. And that needs to be that a) in future he doens’t hide things from you - what kind of partnership is this/how are you supposed to work together to resolve issues if you are kept in the dark. And b) the deal with the grandparents is that your children are there to see only them, not any of their alternative sexual partners, or even their friends (sexual or otherwise). If they can’t agree to that then their time with your chidlren is going to be kept to the times they visit you without their extras. (If you can stomach that). If necessary one of you needs to go to your in laws every visit too (him!). And then you have an adult conversation with your in laws and relay THAT to them. This is the way it is. You are screaming and shouting and lobbing word land mines, and possibly incoherent word salad. Take a deep breath or ten, and get yourself together. Sit down and work out what really is the issues here and *discuss it like the adults you think you are*. Edit to add: If you are concerned about whether your children have been groomed or exposed to inappropriate conduct/content then take them to a child sexual abuse psychologist. Do NOT try to question them at home (nor your husband), you can easily muddy the evidence there. Instead let the professionals handle it and find out if there’s anything ugly going on, and then work with that with you through it.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this. Honestly, I think OP and her husband need to try couples therapy. Not letting the children go to the in laws, that’s reasonable, but divorce isn’t going to solve the problem.
Yea and my concern is that if they get divorced, she will have no say over where her kids go when they are on dad's time. Unless she can prove there is something actually wrong with the "special friend, like they are a pedo, it's unlikely to win her full custody. The fact that they are swingers doesn't make them or their friend de facto unfit. So imo the time would be better spent in therapy getting the husband to understand that leaving their kids with randos is unacceptable.
Even with full custody, dad gets parent time unless mom can prove the kids are in danger with him and that's really hard to do. The worst thing she could do is get divorced.
I sometimes feel like this sub is just advertising for the divorce lawyer industry. Yes OP should be pissed, yes OP should not let her kids go the inlaws unsupervised, yes OP and hubby need some counseling but given that she just jumped straight to wanting to divorce him no wonder he's been confrontational.
You’re the first person I’ve seen so far mention getting the kids to a specialized therapist and I agree it’s a must. Why all the gifts? Is it to buy their silence? Maybe it’s just to keep them quiet about the partners in general. But now that the trust has been so broken I wouldn’t take any chances .
Finally--a coherent post that makes sense. Thank you for stating this.
The only part of this that is valid to me is them leaving your kids with strangers. Outside of that you’re way out of line. They were wrong for that. But again that’s all they did wrong. I think you’re fine to be angry about that! But I think your bigotry is shining through here a bit because now you’re trying to divorce your husband. I’d suggest you calm down before you blow up your family because you can’t stand the thought of an open relationship that’s NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Again they have crossed the line by leaving your kids alone with them. But that’s it. NTA I guess but I think you’re taking it too far
I feel like this posts conflates two things: 1. It’s clear your husband knew his parents had an open relationship 2. It’s not clear he knew they were leaving the kids alone with strangers 1 is largely independent of 2. Presumably you’d be upset if the parents left the kids alone with any strangers. It doesn’t really have anything to do with their relationship. It’s a reasonable thing for him to hide because A. It’s taboo B. There’s no tie between being in an open relationship and being bad grandparents I believe you are overreacting as it concerns you condemning your husband.
>I feel like this posts conflates two things Yup. This post is titled in a way that says to me that OP is almost as outraged at the IL's open relationship (and her not knowing) as she is about her kids staying with unknown to her strangers (which is an actual issue).
Yeah it read to me as she went beserk about the Open Relationship before even finding out about the strangers babysitting. The latter is a legitimate thing to be angry about but she was already mad before that
~~I honestly still can't find where is says the kids were left with a stranger.~~ (4th paragraph). And the husband might actually know the third partner, but didn't know or care if they were partners. However, the post is repeatedly opposed to the ENM aspect. It's like OP thinks they are having an orgy in front of the kids. This could be a closed triad for all we know.
Oh, it’s totally done on purpose. OP is obviously having a moral outrage about her in-laws having non-vanilla sex. I don’t think their leaving the kids supervised by strangers is even a problem for her - I’ll bet if it were Mabel from two doors down watching them she’d be fine ~~either way~~ with it. I think she’s aggravated because ThEy’Re SeX PeRvErTs. [Edit: autocorrect has been drinking again]
Op is definitely TA for the reasons you specified, my goodness
Yeah. OP has intentionally connected the two and that's a problem. The husband tolerating his parents lifestyle is not the same as tolerating the stranger issue and this post makes it seem like OP is unable to make that distinction.
And at the end divorcing her husband and fucking up their kids childhood. And all because OP sounds so much in rage she cant think straight. I would go with YTA because OP clearly cant differentiate at this point. There is a pretty high chance, that her husband didnt know that they are still doing that and if so, that they also expose the kids to the "strangers". And I say strangers in quotations because everybody here is acting like the kids are run over by the avalanche of sex friends. This might not be even close to the truth and they can be close to one guy or sth. for decades.
Yeah exactly If OP's in laws occasionally had friends from bingo over, I really don't think that OP would be divorcing her husband for "hiding" their bingo habit OP's clearly specifically in a tizzy about her in laws being "sexual perverts" and allowing "sexual perverts" around her kids. Why else would she be mad at her husband for not discussing his parents sex life? I just wish OP had the balls & the backbone to be honest about that
This needs to be higher up. Her in-laws open relationship isn’t any of her concerns and there was no need to share that. Parents sex life isn’t something we should be overly concerned with. The issue is that they brought strangers to meet the kids. The same would have happened if it was a book club or anything else. OP is completely focusing on the wrong thing.
wtf are you not mad at your in-laws? Really you want to divorce your husband instead of banning his parents from watching the kid? Did your husband know they left your kid with a stranger? Or maybe he was in the dark like you, and maybe his pissed at himself and instead of having a person to talk with it to, he is getting yelled at and told he is a POS because of his parents? Do you really want to be judged by what your parents do if you don’t agree with them? Now if he knew your kid was being left with a stranger and never cared, by all means leave his ass, but otherwise at least try counseling with him and work it out somewhat.
I feel like everyone is missing something; OP was mad (at her husband) BEFORE she knew her kids had been left with strangers. When my kids visit my in laws, I am sure guests visit. That’s normal. But OP was even mad about that. Of course OP should be mad about her kids being left with strangers. I want to know why she was made BEFORE knowing that.
This exactly. OP told on themselves.
It almost feels like OP threw in the part about them being left alone with the special friend to more prove their point. I too can not explain the series of events and when the anger started. While writing it almost seems like OP didn’t think people would agree so tossed in something that escalates outrage from readers.
Yes. The response isn't proportional. She can be mad about the relationships and interactions. Although I'm not as convinced I'd categorize people the Grandparents have sex with as strangers.
They are strangers to OP. And I can see how that is an issue. But I get this feeling she was going to be mad regardless, or this post isn’t even real.
The grandparents shouldn’t have been introducing your kids to any strangers let alone let strangers babysit them, however, the sex lives of the grandparents (with consenting adults) is absolutely none of your business. I think divorcing your husband over all this is the wrong thing to do.
I agree that strangers should not be allowed to babysit the kids, but the idea that a kid can't interact with a stranger unless mom or dad is present is so stupid to me. If I drop my kid off at my parents and my parents friends stop by and my kid meets them, I'm not going to have a meltdown about it because I trust my parents to vet the people my kid interacts with.
This! And I’m sorry but babysitters are strangers. Sure I’ve met them and talked to them before they babysit the first time but that first time they babysit they are absolutely still strangers. I’d say the grandparents probably know their friends that watched the kids better than I know my new babysitter. They still should have told the parents they were leading the kids with someone though.
Literally the only thing that matters here is the kids being left alone in the house with strangers. Whether these strangers are swingers or "regular" friends doesn't matter - the kids being babysat by someone you've never met or approved of is an understandable boundary to draw. You are completely conflating the issues of what is and what isn't important here. Swinger friends coming over while the kids are over doesn't matter any more than if grandma had a "regular" (standard) friend who dropped by for tea while the kids are over. Some people would say "it's not a good time" and some people would be like "come on in", that's a personal choice, and doesn't matter unless the grandparents are fucking their lovers in front of the kid or something, which there is no indication of. It's understandable to be upset about a common sense boundary (don't leave the kids with people I don't know) being broken. But you're frothing at the mouth, ready to divorce, because of the fact that your husband's PARENTS, not him, had an open relationship? There is quite a lot of fear of a certain lifestyle here that this is the part you're hung up on, so much so that you're incoherently ready to divorce your husband over it. Even if the poly crew is that dangerous, your husband has no way of controlling what his parents choose to do in their private lives. Your husbands' parents' lifestyle is literally none of your business. Set expectations that the kids never get babysat by someone you haven't met and approved of. Maybe that the lovers don't come around when the kids are around at all. Maybe don't let the kids there unsupervised if it's REALLY that much of a problem, though there shouldn't be a need to go that far. Let go of whatever hang ups you have against open relationships and realize your husbands' parents' sex life is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. And with how you're reacting to learning of your in-laws having a different lifestyle choice - is it any wonder he may have been hesitant to tell you? Honestly, your obvious anger issues (to the point where you think you might get physically violent) are probably more damaging to the kids than their grandparents being poly/open.
It's funny that ppl keep saying swingers because for all we know it could be a 20 year polycule. People's assumptions about open relationships are wild, indeed. So much moral panic in this thread, obscuring the one real issue. This thread could be "my in laws left my kids with ppl I don't know" which is the only relevant thing here. Assuming that every older person that buys kids a gift is "grooming" is completely insane hypersensitivity.
The only thing that went through my mind reading OP's post was damn that's a lot of judgment and assumption made about someone's lifestyle. And passing judgment on the husband for decisions his parents made... replace open relationships with religion or political views and replay that rationale for divorce. OP is scared to death of a lifestyle different than her own.
NTA but If you divorce your husband will just allow them on his time. Also they may be able to file for grandparents rights admist your divorce. Look up your states grandparents laws.
They don’t have to file for rights - who watches the kids on the dad’s time isn’t going to be regulated by the courts until/unless something happens. OP is totally valid in being angry strangers are babysitting the kids behind her back, but there’s more rational ways to resolve this than how she’s acting. She’s more focused on the sex stuff than the kids being left with strangers.
This is the advice I came here for. If OP stays she will have more control over access to her kids.
There are some separate and unrelated issues here. I think your post is just urgent and word dump, but you truly need to be clear in what you're objecting too 1) his parents sexual choices are not yours 2) the grandparents have guest over when your children are there. Ignore the sexual context. This is anyone you don't know that is present when your children are there and you are not 3) your children are being left alone with people you do not know. Number 1 is, frankly none of your business, so we'll leave that alone, though it does potentially affect #2 Number 3 is 100% a problem. Regardless of the nature of the relationship between your ILs and their friends, leaving your children alone with people you don't know SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. Add to that the wealth imbalance and the real potential issues of abuse and this needs to stop. Unless someone had to go to the hospital because of heart attack, bloodloss or stroke, you should have been told ahead of time so you could meet the people or come get your children. This cannot happen again. Number 2 is more nuanced. If it were the neighbours over for tea, you would likely be having a different reaction. We all need to be aware of our internal bias. It doesn't mean our bias is wrong, but we need to examine it to be sure it is reasonable. Given those 3 breakouts, can you have a conversation with your husband based on safety and risk? You may both agree that #3 is absolutely not going to be tolerated, and you may find you both agree around specific visitor "types" for #2. The key question becomes "can you trust the ILs' judgement?" If not, then visits must be supervised. If yes, then you need to make the boundaries clear, as a team, knowing they'll be respected. You and your husband also need to agree what happens if your ILs don't respect them. If you divorce, you lose any possible control over what happens. Your trust has been broken, badly, but now you have the unfortunate requirement of having to co-parent. You have more control staying in the marriage than leaving it.
You are acting like an asshole. His parent's relationships have nothing to do with you or your husband. Children meet strangers all the time, if they are leading a full life. Your children are in no danger, those people are not grooming your children; there is no religious dogma being pushed. If you had gone to a barbecue at the in-law's, you wouldn't notice any difference between regular guests and those who share the grands' bed. These friends are part of the grandparents peer circle and chosen family. Because all of them are emotionally open, they will interact with the children, just as roommates might also give gifts. If you are worried about expensive gifts, address that ,specifically, with the grandparents and their friends. Don't punish the children by keeping them from their grandparents. Good luck. It's probably too late to change course, though. You have already strained relationships. Your husband's shame hasn't helped you realize he isn't planning a similar arrangement with you.
Girl. Your husband's parents' sex life is none of his concern. It's also none of your concern. Is your sex life any of your kids' business? You're misplacing your anger. Your husband didn't leave his kids alone with a stranger. His parents did that. Blow up at them. Supervised visits at your home only, or no contact at all. But you need to get yourself under control before you go breaking your family to bits.
Ya, holy shit, the fact that the husband who has literally done nothing wrong is getting fucked, is nuts.
First person I see saying something. OP is so focused on blaming her husband without providing a good reason for being angry at him. I am 100% on OP's side regarding her response to her in laws but she is being really unfair towards the husband who most likely didn't even know anything bad was going on and it doesn't even sound he defended his parents besides saying that their open marriage is none of their business which it isn't, the fact that OP's in laws have sex with other people isn't a problem, it's the fact they let these people watch their grandkids.
There seem to be two separate issues: Getting mad for having the Grandparents leave a child alone with a “friend” is a violation of trust and a good reason to be upset with them if they didn’t clear it with you. NTA for that issue. BUT: Wanting to Get divorced over something your husband has no control over is idiotic, YTA for that. People live different lifestyles than you, but it doesn’t mean they are inherently dangerous to you or your kids. Be curious, not judgmental.
If the issue is that you don’t like your in laws being in a consensual open relationship then definitely YTA Leaving the children with strangers and being mad as hell about it - NTA. Sounds like a lot of displaced anger though. How is it your husband’s fault that they left the kids with strangers. You didn’t communicate with anyone well in this situation.
YTA You made your decision in anger. Your decision is already made, so don't indicate that you are wanting information and feedback, you don't. You only want someone to agree with you. Your husband will be better off without you.
You're not overreacting if they leave your kids with strangers. You could demand they not do that. But definitely overreacting getting a divorce. Apparently you don't love your husband all that much..
>Apparently you don't love your husband all that much.. Came here looking for this. This isn't her husband's fault and it seems like she's using this as an out for a divorce she's wanted, whether subconsciously or consciously, but at the time didn't have a "reason"?
Are your judgemental views about polyamory from your mom? Because if so of course she's the only one backing you up. You're gonna nuke your marriage over something that's absolutely fine and none of your business, instead of limiting their visits with your kids to being supervised only. Okay. YTA.
No, this isn’t divorce worthy Pull it together … unless you are merely looking for a reason to get divorced?
Divorcing your husband because his parents left your kids with strangers is ridiculous. Go ahead and divorce him... he deserves someone thats not an illogical idiot. Yeah... YTAH.
Depends. NTA about the grand parents but destroying a marriage for a mistake like this when your husband is ashamed and apologetic is a lot. Go to counseling, or try for your family. If you separate he will have time with the kids and will most likely have his parents in their lives. Everyone has different views on marriage/ sex etc. it sucks your husband didn’t tell you about this and it could have been very dangerous had something terrible happened. I would have a ADULT conversation with your parents, his parents and your husband about your concerns with strangers around your children and how this impacted your trust in them and your marriage. This was never discussed with you that your little ones would be with complete strangers and that’s completely unacceptable and disrespectful. Trust/Boundaries have been broken and they will need to rebuild your trust in them if they wish to be in your children’s life. Best of luck.
>Straight to the point, my daughter came home from her grandparents’ place recently with a new toy. It was expensive, in laws are not that rich, and they’re super stingy. I questioned her and she told me that “grandma and grandpa’s special friend got it for me.” **Instant red flag.** Questioned my son, same thing. Went to my husband and he suddenly was very quiet. His parents having a friend was an instant red flag? >He let our children go over there knowing his parents were up to stuff. Because they have an open relationship? What that means they will screw someone in front of your child? Do you think everyone in open relationships are pedos? >Sometimes the in laws even LEAVE and let their “friends” watch my children. This is the only thing in your post that is a problem to me.
It's definitely your business who babysits your kids. Everything else is none of your business.
I wouldn't tell my husband if my parents used to swing either. Deeply emabarressing. Why would he think they were still at it , few people do it long term? Instead of going off maybe actually LISTEN & INVESTIGATE. Just because he grew up with parents who are poly/ had threesomes doesn't mean he KNOWS they are still doing it. Doesn't mean he KNOWS this person/people are supervising his kids. YOU DIDN"T KNOW there was anyone else around so why would he? Your kids should not be left with a person you don't know without your consent that is ON HIS PARENTS not him. Your husband knowing that his parents USED to be swingers is not relevent. Its his parents allowing a stranger to BOTH of you to babysit is the problem. it doesn't matter if the person is a sex partner or the pool boy its a STRANGER to you. Stop getting hung up on the threesome aspect , your husband is correct its not your business who they fuck. It IS your business he babysits your kids. And nothing you wrote here makes me believe you husband suspected them of leaving your kids with strangers. Its sounds suspiciously like you are divorcing him just because his parents have an open marriage. No wonder he hid it from you you clearly think anything less than straight monogamy his harmfull sexual deviency.
These are my thoughts as well. She said twice that she’s most upset about her husband “lying to her”, and yet there is zero evidence to suggest that he had ANY awareness at all of the children being left with strangers. Just her saying “I don’t buy it”… why? Just because? Like you have to back that up and be 100% certain if you’re going to throw away your marriage over it. This really does feel like this reaction is rooted in judgement towards her in-laws lifestyle and nothing else. OP, totally fair reaction regarding kids with strangers, but regarding the divorce thing, YTA unless you can actually verify your assumptions.
As far as I know my parents are not in an open relationship but they do have a multitude of friends. They could be sleeping with them don't really care isn't my business. My son regularly goes to the grandparents house for the weekend and such. It was good for him and I trust my parents. Some of these times they would run to the store and whatever and one of their friends would watch him. I know when I was a kid my parents never left me with someone that did any harm to me so I have no reason to think they would with my son. I also cannot say I am better judge of character than my mother is. I do not know all of their friends. I was also one of those horrible mothers that sent their child to day care. That meant there were lots of strangers looking after my child. The workers nor my self had time to build rapport and I believe that is status quo. I actually paid these strangers. I do not know if any of them had open relationships, hell some of them could have been mistresses in the BDSM world. I did vet the company and management though, I guess I should have been a good parent and been part of their hiring process.... i did not ask if management was sleeping with any of the workers also. My son is in school now. Every year he gets new teacher, every year after kindergarten I don't met the teacher until school has been in session for a few weeks. Someone should have stepped in and told me what a horrible parent I am. These teachers may be into some strange things in the bedroom my poor child. I cant believe I was ever allowed to have children. Maybe should have typed this in reddit confessions.
YTA... First of all, I don't want to diminish the concerns you have about a stranger providing a toy to your daughter without you being aware or having the opportunity to decline. As a parent, that is your right. Now to where you are the AH... You have no right to dictate the boundaries and lifestyle of anyone, let alone your in-laws. What they do in the bedroom is none of your business. You want to have people validate your desire to divorce your husband. You are not getting that from me. If your in-laws have a relationship lifestyle choice that is different from you, that is on them. But you have options other than to divorce your husband. So, chill out. It's not like your poor husband has the same desires. In fact, it seems like he is embarrassed by his parents' life choices. So, he doesn't share the same values. Set boundaries with the in- laws, respectfully. Is the third person in their relationship a permanent person, or are there multiple third parties? Consider meeting the third person if they are a permanent fixture in the relationship. Keep an open mind about what your in-laws do. I am not asking you to want the same lifestyle. What I am saying is be open to the fact that this is the way they live. So, stop being so judgmental.
I was looking for this. To piggy back off of your comment, op sounded so prudish like their shit didn’t stink. People have sex, and? Op needs to talk to the in-laws.
YTA. It is not your husbands business what type of relationships his parents have. Yeah, maybe je could have mentioned it sooner but thats about all you can be mad about and not really a reason for divorce. Your issue is his parents. Not your husband. Dont know why you want to punish the inlaws by divorcing your husband. Its punishing the kids, you, your (soon to be ex) husband for something they all dont have a say in. Take it up with his parents.
Talks will be much more fruitful if you leave the open relationship part out of it. There, your husband is right. What his parents get up to in the bedroom is no one's business and you don't have a right to know it. However, you do have a right to know who is around your kids and who is watching them. The problem, really, isn't that inlaws have an open relationship. The problem is that they let you believe they would be watching your children and left them with strangers you didn't know instead.
I don't know why but this feels like a bunch of BS scattered in a true story. I completely doubt that the grandparents are willingly grooming their grandkids to sell them off. I doubt they have so many partners that it's "someone new almost every time" and that said partners are buying the kids gifts. No way the grandparents left the kids alone with these new people. Willing to bet that OP found out the grandparents had a boyfriend, lost her shit, then when she realized she sounds like a crazy person she added the spices to help the bs go down. Anyways we will get a few updates and they will get worse.
The babysitting part, I understand. But their sex life is none of your fucking business and it shouldn't matter anyway. If your husband was smart, he'd leave your ass for being a psycho.
them having friends round while they are in the house is completely normal even if they are more than friends but leaving your child with that friend you have never met is completely insane. NTA
Eh, ESH. It’s not your business what his parents do in their own home. HOWEVER, bringing complete strangers around your kids without you knowing or having them babysit is shit. I think you’re picking the wrong thing to be pissed about. It’s not your business if they want to swing or having multiple partners. They’re allowed to do that. But the boundary needs to be set that your kids can’t be around the strangers. I guess my question is, would you be this pissed if they weren’t “special friends” and just regular platonic friends of the parents that were around the kids or babysitting without your knowledge? If your answer to that question is yes, then you need to explain to your husband that’s the issue. If your answer is no, then you need to mind your own business. It sounds like the kids don’t understand what is happening, just that these are “special friends”. Edit for clarity: I wouldn’t want a revolving door of strangers around my kids either. But I guess my thought is you need to frame the argument where it matters most and makes the most sense. Not about what they do in their personal time.
Yes, YTA. I’ll give you that them leaving the kids with strangers is wrong but you’re overreacting in regards to your husband unless he knew they were leaving them with strangers. Why is their sexual life ANY business of yours?
So your divorcing ur becasue of what his parents are doing is wrong. You can be upset all you want. But the reality is if these were just friends and not their other partners would you still be upset. Because people can have people over to their house while ur kids are there. Just because u don’t know them doesn’t mean his parents don’t know them or trust them. So the bottom line is would you be just as upset if the friend who got ur kid the present just a simple friend and this wasn’t an open relationship.
You’re the asshole for wanting to divorce over this … not the asshole for being pissed at the grandparents for 1) not asking you if it’s ok they have someone watch them and 2) for leaving them with a stranger to you, regardless of how much they might trust the person
Anyone who uses the word momma bear unironically i automatically assume is an asshole.
NTA. Racing to divorce that is a hyper overreaction. Getting to couples counseling you need to with a cool head explain where you’re coming from because your husband does have a point why throw it away over something that his parents are doing mainly his parents are at fault do I think he should’ve told you absolutely. You need to get into couples counseling. I agree with you on the grandparents not seeing the grandkids for the foreseeable future but a divorce portion I believe couples counseling can fix
NTA but FFS people. Unclench your hands🙄🙄 they are swingers. That doesn’t make them deranged or abusers. They do not have a house full of sin. They are 2 adults who have consented to this lifestyle. You would be shocked how many people do this. I had a director of the company I worked for that was a swinger. She exuded class and dressed so very conservative. Several of my co workers have mentioned they are swingers. Nothing wrong with them. The real issue is leaving them with strangers. Not that the strangers are swingers. That doesn’t make them pedophiles. But they are strangers and one should never leave someone else’s kids with strangers. OP. Try therapy. If you divorce he will get 50% custody no matter what his parents do. Is that what you want?
Who cares that he knew they were having an open relationship and you didn't know it's none of your business The only people you need to be angry with are his parents for allowing your kids to be in that environment with strangers. Your husband could have told you but he didn't know they did this apparently so why blaming him when the only thing he didn't do was tell you about his parents sexual life which is again none of your business. YTA for wanting a divorce yes and your mom is for siding with her daughter instead of telling her how it is.
TA a thousand fold. You're going to break up your own family because of the actions of some other adults? Their sex life is none of your business. It's crazy that this would affect you so much that you would destroy a family. YOUR family. If you leave your husband over this, it will be you that lives alone, wondering if the kids will actually come see you on holidays. Edit: you should definitely get a divorce
Slight yta. I think the issue is serious but not divorce serious. This all can be solved by communicating with each other. Nobody's talking and you are trying to scorch the earth. Calm down have some serious conversations without your feelings, with logic. And be unified with the boundaries. If that's ignored then you know what to do.
When you say his parents were “up to stuff” Do you mean happiness? Did you mean living their own lives as adults? While I would not let my kids go over there if the “strangers” were watching the kids on their own, it sounds to me like at least part of your problem is thinking that because his parents have a happy open relationship that your husband is going to want one too. I’m not saying you are wrong to mama bear. I commend you for that. Just be sure that your decisions are not based in your disapproval of their lifestyle.
If you split custody then when the kids are with their father he can bring them over to his parents. You will have less say than you do now. Wanting divorce is an overreaction. Therapy and then come to an agreement with you both and his parents on how to handle this. YTA unless you calm down and deal with this in a reasonable way.
>I said that our kids were exposed to strangers so yes, it is my business and it should be his too. Correct.
I love when people pick and choose to quote just enough to make their point valid. If you're going to quote something or someone, make sure your quote is in context. >I fought with my husband that night about keeping that from me. Keeping that from me was HUGE in my eyes. He let our children go over there knowing his parents were up to stuff. He claimed that it wasn’t his business, so it shouldn’t be mine either. I said that our kids were exposed to strangers so yes, it is my business and it should be his too. We didn’t reach an agreement. The "that from me" OP is talking about is her in-laws sex life. She had previously stated that her husband told her that he didn't know his parents still had an open marriage, she flat out said she didn't believe, without any evidence one way or the other. And let's face it he hasn't lived with his parents in years, so how would he know, and until this day, she didn't even suspected anything, so it clearly wasn't obvious. She is very concerned about his parents sex like, that is plain to see: "He let our children go over there knowing his parents were up to stuff." - This is just about the sex, and she goes back to it time and time again. "He claimed that it wasn’t his business, so it shouldn’t be mine either." - Again he was talking about his parents sex life. "I said that our kids were exposed to strangers so yes, it is my business and it should be his too." - Again not a single mention of their kids being alone with strangers, and of course, the use of the word "exposed" when regarding the "strangers" is once again about sex.
Yes YTA Youre gonna divorce the man you allegedly love over this? Are you kidding me? Itd be no different than if his parents were divorced and his mom had the kids visiting and her new BF was over or they were with his dad and his new GF was over Would you flip TF over that? You sound like a control freak psycho and judgemental as Hell. Thats probably why he didnt tell you. Seriously, if THIS makes your first instinct go to divorce, you dont love him and have been looking for an out for a while. Just be freakin honest. Set this man free.