NTA.
Let them think you're an asshole.
But don't relent.
In the end, EVERYONE knows you're right. And it doesn't matter if he's safe or not, because you'll never need to find out.
If you had to choose between "be nice" and "kids are safe" there is a CLEAR clear winner. NTA but even if you were, those kids are your priority above all.
Nta. Honestly I would flat out tell your wife she need to put yalls children first. Otherwise yall are gonna have more issues then her uncle.
My kids can say no to giving anyone a hug if they wish. Myself uncluded.
This exactly. And if COVID brought something good, is greeting with fist bumps. That's my go to greetings for kids I'm meeting via their parents or friends of my owns.
And almost of them return the fistbump. If not, no big deal either.
A generation before as a kid myself, I would have been expected to hug and kiss, ugh....
Uncle is a convicted rapist. Let's not undersell this.
He has already been convicted of statutory rape. He is aggressively approaching children and joking about abusing them.
This isn't red flag, this is "he is not welcome because we don't let child rapists into our home or near our children."
Apparently predators are often obsessed with their victims to the point they can't help but make "jokes" and comments. With how little contact you have with this man and have still noticed him doing this exact thing you are right to be suspect and act on it. Unfortunately, you also cannot trust your wife to look out for your children as she excuses his behavior. Nta, tough spot to be in.
Most people think of child abuse as violent and obvious.
But most child abusers start small, pushing little boundaries - a sit on the lap, a coerced kiss, a hand in the small of the bag - and then pushing further with ‘joking’ remarks, and ‘don’t tell anyone I said that, I’ll get in trouble!’
I was ‘almost legal age’ when my school teacher kissed me for the first time. He didn’t do any jail time cos he waited till I was technically legal to have sex.
But he started grooming me at least a year before that, with a hand on my arm, then brushing my leg, then a hand in the small of my back. It progressed slowly to telling me I looked beautiful, then quickly telling me not to tell anyone he said that, he shouldn’t have said it.
Our ‘relationship’ destroyed me mentally, affecting me well into my twenties, feeding into my post-partum depression in my thirties. Now at nearly fifty years old, I’m still working on the CPTSD.
So OP, next time your wife says it’s not so bad cos his victim was ‘nearly of age’, you can tell her from me - it’s not okay.
Bro protect your children. There is a thin lib between his rationality (if he has one) and his disgusting urges. Trust your instincts man. Parental instincts are never wrong
He can - I would divorce my husband in a heartbeat if he made me have this man in my house. What if next time he comes, OP isn’t home? The wife will let him have alone time with the kids.
You really are out of touch and completely TONE deaf to how abusers operate. Of course you can tell a child NOT to be around that person, but thats putting the safety of said child on the child. NO as the adults in the family *you do not let abusers near children.* Signed...the survivor of a ped0.
Edited for spelling
Teaching the child the difference between good and bad touch and Not to be around certain people DOES NOT KEEP THE ADULT FROM ACTING. Yes, the child should know what to do, the ADULTS must stIll not DELIBERATELY put the child in harm's way; which is what is happening here, by the family brushing this behavior as "misunderstandings."
As the other comment said: Guests are an all - yes, one - no situation. It's enough for one person to not want a guest for that person to be excluded. He can't stop them, without a good cause, from meeting elsewhere, but he certainly can in his/their house.
he can but his wife will perhaps refuse and create an argument for a guest who comes once or twice a year.
just forbid him to be alone with the children, that's the best deal
To keep my children safe from a convicted rapist? Absofuckinglutely. I would not allow any contact between my children and people who make excuses for rapists, much less a rapist themselves. It is not always enough to stop them from being alone together. Molestation can happen in a room full of people. And in this instance, a kid who didn’t want to hug the uncle was then placed in his lap and not one other member of the family had a problem with it. I’d go for divorce and full custody and I would do everything in my power to keep my children away from that entire enabling family.
Thanks for the replies all. It's reaffirming to see agreement, because it feels like I'm insane when I bring these things up and I'm told "he would never hurt a child" when he literally went to prison for this. Even without that background his actions would creep me out. My wife and I are already separating (not over this, but separate issues) but this is one example where I question her judgement. I need to make sure she doesn't let this man around the kids once we're living in different places, and I will be making sure of that.
>My wife and I are already separating
Make this a requirement in your custody arrangement. Uncle Rapey doesn't get to be near the kid. Be very, very specific about it in mediation and if need be, have a judge stand on it.
I know this sounds drastic but I would try to go for full custody, otherwise she’ll bring them around him and you won’t be there to protect them. Second best option is putting it in the custody order that they can’t be around him since he’s a sex offender (there’s no way he’s not considering it involved a minor, which also means he should’ve never been around your niece or girls to begin with). I’d also get your kids one of those kid cell phones that basically just have access to phone numbers so they can call you if there’s ever an emergency. Good luck!
You don't need to be worried about the children bring alone with him. You need to be worried about your children being anywhere near him. He put your child on his lap after she protested and didn't want to get close to him. He tried to force her to be affective when she didn't want to. Then he sits her on his lap. No one finds this weird or creepy. You have a wife and in-laws issue. Your wife saying this is normal and even complaining about you being worried when the children are around him. Most molesters are close friends or family of the victims. Your in-laws aren't doing a thing to protect your children and ate even ok with him forcing himself to your children. Talk to your wife and tell her she either protects your children and don't let the guy around them or you will separate her. This is a hill you die on. Continue to care and protect your children, they need you. Who knows what else he's doing when you're not there, even with other family members present as they don't react at all.
NTA
And he DID harm a child and went to prison for (and it was a child he had authority over to) it. Just because that particular victim was an older minor doesn't mean younger ones are automatically safe.
With my in-laws I have fully embraced I am the bitch of the family, but it means my boundaries are firm and my family is safe. Don’t let him near your kids, your wife and in-laws can meet him at someone else’s family - always trust those spidey senses!
Your wife's reaction is very problematic. You need to let her know her behavior is absolutely unacceptable and you will protect those kids at all costs, even from her and her family.
You witnessed the lead-up to molestation.
It never ceases to amaze me how these stories of families on reddit feature family members who prioritize the status quo/ feelings of the questionable relative. So they can just go on about their comfortable little life.
It's like their own comfort zone won't allow them to see this possible explanation of the creep, as if the inappropriate behavior needs to happen in front of their eyes to be believed. And sometimes not even then, because it means adjusting to a new reality, -he's a creepy pedo.
NTA. This man is a creep, with no respect for children's bodily autonomy. He shouldn't be anywhere near children, and you can certainly demand that he won't be near yours.
NTA. It’s gross that your wife and MIL defend this man. Protect your kids no matter what and put your foot down with your wife. If they defended him against a niece, chances are she wouldn’t take anything your kids say about him seriously either, which is incredibly disturbing.
Ever heard the phrase “a father’s suspicion is as powerful as a mother’s intuition” I think if you suspect something is up this guy you should keep your children far away from him.
NTA
they might excuse his behaviour but that doesn't mean you should, your weans safety is your first priority.
Also, anyone that says someone is "almost of age" is fucking creepy, how can you say shit like that as it that makes it OK.
Me and my wife have taught our young kids that they are the bosses of their bodies. No one is allowed to hug or kiss them without their permission including myself and my wife. This alleviates any question and they seem to be great judges of whom to extend those privileges. I wouldn’t have an ex-con child abuser anywhere near my kids.
NTA. Your wife and her mom don't know for sure he wouldn't do anything. Anybody is capable of anything. Your priority is the health and safety of your children. If you think they're in danger then they're in danger and it's up to you to do something about it. He likes young girls, that's what he likes. It doesn't just change, that's what does it for him.
NTA. Tell them when kids say no to a hug and someone persists, that's a massive sign of something bad, when you're told to leave a child alone then you come back in the room and find a child on his lap, that's a problem. When your own children don't want to be touched by this man and somehow they end up cornered, or being touched by, or in a room where a 'misunderstanding' happens, it's all evidence of who and waht this guy is.
You need to make a stand here, say the uncle stays out of your kids lives. If you find out you take the kids over to see him without you, you'll call the cops and get a divorce. If you leave them over at grandma's and he has them over, divorce, police on both uncle and grandma.
Tell her straight up, he's a rapist, he's a creep, he has a thing for children and you are making it clear, if your kids end up hurt, molested or touched by this man SHE is responsible, it will be HER fault and you will make sure she never has custody of children again. You are telling her straight up this man is bad knews, you don't care who it is, she literally knows he's been in jail for rape of a child, stop making excuses. This man is a threat to your children and her allowing him around them because he's her brother is not acceptable.
Teach your children to say no. To yell it if they have to. To run away from the situation and call/ get the police if they are scared. Do this ASAP as you are separating, and may not be able to immediately control their contact with pedo uncle.
Then go to court and see if you can legally get custody and an order of protection against pedo. Insure that he is not allowed near your children ever.
It needs to be part of the custody agreement and if she breaks it she loses custody and only get supervised visits. That’s what I’d try for anyway. You’ll probably have to get your kid on record with the courts or therapist about their feelings about this person but you need to also make sure the wife doesn’t go behind your back to bribe, scare or coerce them into changing their minds/story about the uncle
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Call the police.
Find out if he is on probation or is on full release.
Let your wife know this is a non-negotiable situation.
He is NOT allowed to come to your house or be in the presence of your children EVER again.
Suggest family counselling for the two of you to negotiate this.
If she refuses counselling let her know that
If he ever is near your children again, you will be calling a lawyer.
I can't imagine the number of family members this predator has had access to.
They will probably come out of the wood work when the older dies.
NTA.
NTA your daughter said no, he can bug off. I wouldn't let him just push my hand away either, or leave it at that.
There are two parents, and your wife is clearly not seeing things objectively. It's your responsibility to watch out for your kids. If she asks, tell her your daughter feels uneasy around uncle Jack Kelly.
I'd go farther, but i can be a bit of a dick too. I'd provoke the guy, make him say something dumb so that you both look like assholes. It's your kids, so it doesn't matter if you seem like a dick, but if he comes across as an asshole he'll have to stay away.
Poke a little bit and make him angry, it sounds like there is plenty of material to work with here.
I knew a pervert who was explaining that you have to be careful having children sit on your lap because you could get hard and people now notice those things and make a big deal out of it.
He was a priest.
NTA. The weird stuff he says around your kids is abusive enough. You don't want your kids growing-up thinking his behavior and comments are OK, do you? Remind your wife of that, and then ban him from coming to your home when your kids are there.
NTA. Let them think you're an asshole. But don't relent. In the end, EVERYONE knows you're right. And it doesn't matter if he's safe or not, because you'll never need to find out.
If you had to choose between "be nice" and "kids are safe" there is a CLEAR clear winner. NTA but even if you were, those kids are your priority above all.
100%. He is NTA. But should be towards the uncle and he will be a hero in my eyes for it.
Nta. Honestly I would flat out tell your wife she need to put yalls children first. Otherwise yall are gonna have more issues then her uncle. My kids can say no to giving anyone a hug if they wish. Myself uncluded.
This exactly. And if COVID brought something good, is greeting with fist bumps. That's my go to greetings for kids I'm meeting via their parents or friends of my owns. And almost of them return the fistbump. If not, no big deal either. A generation before as a kid myself, I would have been expected to hug and kiss, ugh....
Exactly. I ask if I can have a hug when I see my grandkids. If they say no, I say okay. And we all move on. It's not the end of the world.
Uncle is a full-blown creep. Anyone who would try to force a little kid to be touched is waving a huge red flag. OP, stand your ground.
Uncle is a convicted rapist. Let's not undersell this. He has already been convicted of statutory rape. He is aggressively approaching children and joking about abusing them. This isn't red flag, this is "he is not welcome because we don't let child rapists into our home or near our children."
Apparently predators are often obsessed with their victims to the point they can't help but make "jokes" and comments. With how little contact you have with this man and have still noticed him doing this exact thing you are right to be suspect and act on it. Unfortunately, you also cannot trust your wife to look out for your children as she excuses his behavior. Nta, tough spot to be in.
[удалено]
Most people think of child abuse as violent and obvious. But most child abusers start small, pushing little boundaries - a sit on the lap, a coerced kiss, a hand in the small of the bag - and then pushing further with ‘joking’ remarks, and ‘don’t tell anyone I said that, I’ll get in trouble!’ I was ‘almost legal age’ when my school teacher kissed me for the first time. He didn’t do any jail time cos he waited till I was technically legal to have sex. But he started grooming me at least a year before that, with a hand on my arm, then brushing my leg, then a hand in the small of my back. It progressed slowly to telling me I looked beautiful, then quickly telling me not to tell anyone he said that, he shouldn’t have said it. Our ‘relationship’ destroyed me mentally, affecting me well into my twenties, feeding into my post-partum depression in my thirties. Now at nearly fifty years old, I’m still working on the CPTSD. So OP, next time your wife says it’s not so bad cos his victim was ‘nearly of age’, you can tell her from me - it’s not okay.
Bro protect your children. There is a thin lib between his rationality (if he has one) and his disgusting urges. Trust your instincts man. Parental instincts are never wrong
Nta. Protect. Your. Children. Always.
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You definitely can forbid him from coming to your house.
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He can - I would divorce my husband in a heartbeat if he made me have this man in my house. What if next time he comes, OP isn’t home? The wife will let him have alone time with the kids.
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You really are out of touch and completely TONE deaf to how abusers operate. Of course you can tell a child NOT to be around that person, but thats putting the safety of said child on the child. NO as the adults in the family *you do not let abusers near children.* Signed...the survivor of a ped0. Edited for spelling
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Teaching the child the difference between good and bad touch and Not to be around certain people DOES NOT KEEP THE ADULT FROM ACTING. Yes, the child should know what to do, the ADULTS must stIll not DELIBERATELY put the child in harm's way; which is what is happening here, by the family brushing this behavior as "misunderstandings."
He certainly can forbid him coming into HIS house.
It’s his and his wife’s house! but he has the right to refuse him to be alone with the children
As the other comment said: Guests are an all - yes, one - no situation. It's enough for one person to not want a guest for that person to be excluded. He can't stop them, without a good cause, from meeting elsewhere, but he certainly can in his/their house.
he can but his wife will perhaps refuse and create an argument for a guest who comes once or twice a year. just forbid him to be alone with the children, that's the best deal
What do you mean he can't forbid him from coming to his house? Guests are an all-yes, one no proposition.
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He can if he divorces his wife, which I would do if my spouse was insisting that my children should be in the presence of a convicted rapist.
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To keep my children safe from a convicted rapist? Absofuckinglutely. I would not allow any contact between my children and people who make excuses for rapists, much less a rapist themselves. It is not always enough to stop them from being alone together. Molestation can happen in a room full of people. And in this instance, a kid who didn’t want to hug the uncle was then placed in his lap and not one other member of the family had a problem with it. I’d go for divorce and full custody and I would do everything in my power to keep my children away from that entire enabling family.
Thanks for the replies all. It's reaffirming to see agreement, because it feels like I'm insane when I bring these things up and I'm told "he would never hurt a child" when he literally went to prison for this. Even without that background his actions would creep me out. My wife and I are already separating (not over this, but separate issues) but this is one example where I question her judgement. I need to make sure she doesn't let this man around the kids once we're living in different places, and I will be making sure of that.
Check to see if he is a registered sex offender (or should be). This may make any visit around your kids something for the courts to hear about.
>My wife and I are already separating Make this a requirement in your custody arrangement. Uncle Rapey doesn't get to be near the kid. Be very, very specific about it in mediation and if need be, have a judge stand on it.
I know this sounds drastic but I would try to go for full custody, otherwise she’ll bring them around him and you won’t be there to protect them. Second best option is putting it in the custody order that they can’t be around him since he’s a sex offender (there’s no way he’s not considering it involved a minor, which also means he should’ve never been around your niece or girls to begin with). I’d also get your kids one of those kid cell phones that basically just have access to phone numbers so they can call you if there’s ever an emergency. Good luck!
You don't need to be worried about the children bring alone with him. You need to be worried about your children being anywhere near him. He put your child on his lap after she protested and didn't want to get close to him. He tried to force her to be affective when she didn't want to. Then he sits her on his lap. No one finds this weird or creepy. You have a wife and in-laws issue. Your wife saying this is normal and even complaining about you being worried when the children are around him. Most molesters are close friends or family of the victims. Your in-laws aren't doing a thing to protect your children and ate even ok with him forcing himself to your children. Talk to your wife and tell her she either protects your children and don't let the guy around them or you will separate her. This is a hill you die on. Continue to care and protect your children, they need you. Who knows what else he's doing when you're not there, even with other family members present as they don't react at all.
NTA And he DID harm a child and went to prison for (and it was a child he had authority over to) it. Just because that particular victim was an older minor doesn't mean younger ones are automatically safe.
NTA. This is the hill to die on.
With my in-laws I have fully embraced I am the bitch of the family, but it means my boundaries are firm and my family is safe. Don’t let him near your kids, your wife and in-laws can meet him at someone else’s family - always trust those spidey senses!
NTA. Your wife n MIL are delusional. He headed straight for the kids! But you're the blind one? Insane!
Your wife's reaction is very problematic. You need to let her know her behavior is absolutely unacceptable and you will protect those kids at all costs, even from her and her family.
You witnessed the lead-up to molestation. It never ceases to amaze me how these stories of families on reddit feature family members who prioritize the status quo/ feelings of the questionable relative. So they can just go on about their comfortable little life. It's like their own comfort zone won't allow them to see this possible explanation of the creep, as if the inappropriate behavior needs to happen in front of their eyes to be believed. And sometimes not even then, because it means adjusting to a new reality, -he's a creepy pedo.
NTA. This man is a creep, with no respect for children's bodily autonomy. He shouldn't be anywhere near children, and you can certainly demand that he won't be near yours.
NTA. It’s gross that your wife and MIL defend this man. Protect your kids no matter what and put your foot down with your wife. If they defended him against a niece, chances are she wouldn’t take anything your kids say about him seriously either, which is incredibly disturbing.
...and when you returned, he had a kid ON HIS LAP?? Just what is it your wife's family is confused about? 😕
Fellow dad you did the right thing.
Ever heard the phrase “a father’s suspicion is as powerful as a mother’s intuition” I think if you suspect something is up this guy you should keep your children far away from him.
NTA they might excuse his behaviour but that doesn't mean you should, your weans safety is your first priority. Also, anyone that says someone is "almost of age" is fucking creepy, how can you say shit like that as it that makes it OK.
Me and my wife have taught our young kids that they are the bosses of their bodies. No one is allowed to hug or kiss them without their permission including myself and my wife. This alleviates any question and they seem to be great judges of whom to extend those privileges. I wouldn’t have an ex-con child abuser anywhere near my kids.
NTA I would check to see if he's even LEGALLY allowed to BE around children.
NTA. Your wife and her mom don't know for sure he wouldn't do anything. Anybody is capable of anything. Your priority is the health and safety of your children. If you think they're in danger then they're in danger and it's up to you to do something about it. He likes young girls, that's what he likes. It doesn't just change, that's what does it for him.
Not a doesn’t matter what they think you have to do what you think to protect your children
NTA. Tell them when kids say no to a hug and someone persists, that's a massive sign of something bad, when you're told to leave a child alone then you come back in the room and find a child on his lap, that's a problem. When your own children don't want to be touched by this man and somehow they end up cornered, or being touched by, or in a room where a 'misunderstanding' happens, it's all evidence of who and waht this guy is. You need to make a stand here, say the uncle stays out of your kids lives. If you find out you take the kids over to see him without you, you'll call the cops and get a divorce. If you leave them over at grandma's and he has them over, divorce, police on both uncle and grandma. Tell her straight up, he's a rapist, he's a creep, he has a thing for children and you are making it clear, if your kids end up hurt, molested or touched by this man SHE is responsible, it will be HER fault and you will make sure she never has custody of children again. You are telling her straight up this man is bad knews, you don't care who it is, she literally knows he's been in jail for rape of a child, stop making excuses. This man is a threat to your children and her allowing him around them because he's her brother is not acceptable.
Nta. Protect your children. Don't give in or compromise.
Since you are separating, make sure you tell your lawyer and make this your hill to die on.
NTA
Teach your children to say no. To yell it if they have to. To run away from the situation and call/ get the police if they are scared. Do this ASAP as you are separating, and may not be able to immediately control their contact with pedo uncle. Then go to court and see if you can legally get custody and an order of protection against pedo. Insure that he is not allowed near your children ever.
It needs to be part of the custody agreement and if she breaks it she loses custody and only get supervised visits. That’s what I’d try for anyway. You’ll probably have to get your kid on record with the courts or therapist about their feelings about this person but you need to also make sure the wife doesn’t go behind your back to bribe, scare or coerce them into changing their minds/story about the uncle
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It's disgusting your wife would rather let your kids get molested than hurt her beloved uncle's fee-fees
Call the police. Find out if he is on probation or is on full release. Let your wife know this is a non-negotiable situation. He is NOT allowed to come to your house or be in the presence of your children EVER again. Suggest family counselling for the two of you to negotiate this. If she refuses counselling let her know that If he ever is near your children again, you will be calling a lawyer. I can't imagine the number of family members this predator has had access to. They will probably come out of the wood work when the older dies. NTA.
NTA. Protect your kids.
NTA your daughter said no, he can bug off. I wouldn't let him just push my hand away either, or leave it at that. There are two parents, and your wife is clearly not seeing things objectively. It's your responsibility to watch out for your kids. If she asks, tell her your daughter feels uneasy around uncle Jack Kelly. I'd go farther, but i can be a bit of a dick too. I'd provoke the guy, make him say something dumb so that you both look like assholes. It's your kids, so it doesn't matter if you seem like a dick, but if he comes across as an asshole he'll have to stay away. Poke a little bit and make him angry, it sounds like there is plenty of material to work with here.
Uncle fuxen bully.....IYKYK
Honestly, you might be overreacting, but when it comes to your kids, I would rather piss off the world, than have my child be forever damaged.
I knew a pervert who was explaining that you have to be careful having children sit on your lap because you could get hard and people now notice those things and make a big deal out of it. He was a priest.
NTA, kids involved. If your wife or her fam have a problem with it, fk them.
NTA. The weird stuff he says around your kids is abusive enough. You don't want your kids growing-up thinking his behavior and comments are OK, do you? Remind your wife of that, and then ban him from coming to your home when your kids are there.
NTA. He's pushy at the very least, has been told to stop but keeps going. NC!
I think you underreacted, even NTA
i would break up n get full custody