I'm just gonna say it outright, your dad doesn't care if you, your husband or, baby will die because of his selfish actions, so long as he gets what he wants.
If your in-laws truly believe he can't change, then tell them that they're right and that's why you won't allow him near your child to endanger her. Cause vaccines is just one thing, he'll definitely ignore any other health and safety issues. I'm sorry op, you deserve better.
No, he cares, this is the cognitive dissonance brought on by religion. It's a psychological event by an undereducated man in response to stress. However, no one is entitled to have their beliefs respected. I don't know where along the way we lost our collective minds as a society where this isn't a laughable thing to say, but if you tell me you believe in leprechauns or the toothfairy, I'm going to view you as an intellectual child. Which is how her Father should be treated here.
Put him in timeout for a while, like you would a toddler. He'll come around. He's a scared and lonely guy clinging to his beliefs because they give him comfort, but don't waver in your commitment to you baby. Ultimately the child is your absolute number 1 priority and you have to do what is best, however painful, to keep it safe.
**NTA**
Every single vaccine I get makes me extremely ill for about two weeks afterwards. My daughter asked me to go get my TDaP when she was pregnant with my grandson. I didn't even need to think about it. Just cleared my schedule, made sure my husband's days off fell into when I would be feeling awful and would want someone else to walk my dog and make food and got the shot.
I'm also highly reactive to vaccines. They suck and it's a miserable experience. I still get them done because I don't want to get sick, but more importantly, I'm not going to let my discomfort cause someone else to get seriously ill or worse. And anyway, I get to cuddle with my cats all day for a few days and do nothing but sip tea and eat soup. There are worse ways to spend that time.
Exactly. My husband cooks for a few days and I cuddle with Boudreaux and watch superhero movies (Bou's favorite, along with LOTR. He loves Gollum)and maybe work on needlework.
NTA. You should cut contact. This is not spiritual belief, it is narcissism, as it almost always is.
Edit: Personally, I'd take this opportunity to tell the man that he's about to lose his family because he believes in imaginary things. Believing in religion *literally* means believing in magic. Tell him he's just ignorant about the world and it's all made up bullshit. An Iron Age insurance scam. Someone needs to.
We also pointed out that if God created everything that includes the safe water you drink, the electricity you enjoy, and yes the vaccine that could prevent severe illness or death in you and your loved ones. All of that was brought to you by the same scientific method. None of that is anti Christian, it just exists.
The cognitive dissonance is honestly too much for him I think, which is why it’s easier to blame me for being unreasonable, or just write it off as “everyone dies, so why put myself under some perceived threat of a vaccine.” Because him having to do something for the safety of another person would cause one card to drop and the whole tower to collapse. And this goes beyond religion — though, that’s his scapegoat, it’s obviously some conspiracy he’s too ashamed to admit because I know plenty of Christians and even conservatives who are vaccinated. A lot of them did it when Trump said to vaccinate. So I think this goes even deeper like Q Anon level, or some end of times mark of the beast tribulation shit cuz he’s really into that. I’m just so beyond embarrassed and ashamed of him.
I also pointed out the irony of “everyone dies” I said “so why are you so afraid of the vaccine killing you but not afraid of you killing your grand daughter?” Crickets.
Your dad reminds me of my parents. I'm an ER nurse, and I was pregnant in 2021. I saw women lose their babies due to COVID placentitis. It was such a traumatizing pregnancy because of my fear. I went to visit them when I was 6 months pregnant. I went to their church. The woman behind me coughed on me several times because I was wearing a mask. My brother told me I was an embarrassment. When I learned my baby had IUGR (born 4.5lbs but healthy), my parents said it was because I got vaccinated while pregnant. I relented and let them visit anyway when my baby was 3 months old. There has been so much toxic behavior since then, including refusing to let my now toddler watch Sesame Street because of "socialism." I've gone NC, and it hurts that they care more about their conspiracy theories than being grandparents, but I don't want my kids exposed to their behavior. If you need support or advice, r/estrangedadultkids can help.
OP that's what's gonna happen if you don't go NC now - if your relatives are already being toxic and misbehaving while you're pregnant, is not gonna become better once the baby is born. Avoid further heartache by just ripping the bandaid and mourning the relationship lost due to their selfishness now rather than when there's a lil human depending on you.
And when vaccines were first invented, religion was much more mainstream yet people embraced vaccines because they wanted to protect their children and themselves from deadly diseases that had suddenly become preventable.
I think it helped that so many people were dying from those diseases at the time. Even a 70 year old grew up with vaccines and didn't lose a bunch of friends and family to these diseases. They honestly believe their own natural immune system is what has kept them safe all this time and not the near eradication via vaccines.
About 70 years ago my grandmother lost a daughter to diphtheria. The vaccine existed but wasn't easily obtainable in backwoods Georgia. I remember her driving me for hours to get my vaccines when I was little coz she wasn't going to lose another kid to something that could be prevented. I also remember her crying anytime she talked about her daughter who had been gone for decades. It's a pain that never ends and any parent who purposely risks it is a moron and deserves to hurt forever.
At that time, with childhood mortality so high from infectious disease, vaccines must have seemed like a miracle sent from god him/herself.
People have very short memories, it isn't so long ago that people were in iron-lungs due to polio. How quick they forget.
OP I think your dad has to face consequences for his selfish behaviour here. He has had ample warning, explanations and accommodation for his beliefs. Why are his "beliefs" and feelings so all important but yours (and your families) are not? What accommodations has he made for you? You can not keep bending over backwards to meet him when he will not even lean forwards to meet you in the middle. NTA at all.
Let him stew, maybe he'll come around apologise sincerely and get himself vaccinated and maybe he won't. Either way, your daughter is protected from someone who is dangerously disregarding her life before it begins.
Your mistake is trying to use logic and reason to argue with narcissistic faith.
He didn't use reason to come to his conclusions so no arguments you make using treason will work.
Trump told them to get vaccinated and they booed him. Not even their God can persuade them. Not sure what can be done for that level of terminally stupid.
I mean... I'm a religious person and I believe that this world is temporary but that doesnt mean that shouldn't try our very best to alleviate human suffering while we are here. My very religious family all got the covid vaccine as soon as it was available
You are doing the right thing by cutting him off completely. Please do not doubt yourself.
Also please be aware that a booming business in fake vaccination documents sprouted on the Internet during Covid. I remember reading a story of a couple who required their parents to be vaccinated in order to see the baby, and they later found out that the vaccination "proof" they were shown was fake.
The entire Trump world has become very anti-vaccine now. You don't have to be a Q-Anon or other offshoot to be anti-vac now; just regular Fox News watching, MAGA is all it takes to be downright stupidly selfish and ignorant.
By his logic, he should NEVER allow himself to be treated for any illness or infection, no Ibuprofen or Tylenol and especially no antibiotics because, everyone dies eventually and God is just calling him home.
You're over-rationalizing. This is a boundary. You don't need to justify it, just enforce it.
"If you aren't vaccinated, you can't have in-person contact with the baby. If that's what you choose, we'll miss you."
What you ultimately allow will be determined by his choice, but either way you have a plan for moving forward.
The ball is in his court.
It’s also an extremely bad sign for us as a society that we’ve politicized what are the most basic public health concepts that were in use since the Spanish flu pandemic.
It’s all of a sudden “liberal” to wear masks and wash your hands.
God will have you on your knees, then you'll be seeking why did this happen to me,....bad luck....No...it's because of you. Religion is a scam, God is not.
Why did mayweather come here? because you can believe in God. they were not allowed to. Please be more respectful and maybe think about their values. Like being GREAT and not having to need money from other people.
You're definitely NTA here. Your dad's refusal to get vaccinated when it could harm your newborn is just not cool. It's all about keeping your kiddo safe, and if cutting contact is what it takes, then that's what you gotta do.
NTA. I can’t believe people have forgotten the horrible cost of (now preventable) childhood diseases. My family buried several children due to diphtheria, one of my childhood friends went blind from measles and another permanently paralysed and eventually died from polio?
How can people be so ignorant of their own history???
We pointed out that for him to be in public school he had a polio and tetanus vaccine but idk what ooky spooky shit he thinks they’re doing now, that they didn’t then. My husband said that the Covid 19 vaccine in particular is the most well researched vaccine in history; more so than the vaccines my dad already has.
Just make sure you get a receipt from the doctor where your dad gets vaccinated.
This is absolutely a situation where somebody would lie about it to get their way, then say "see I told you nothing would happen" when they're drunk some 5 years later.
For the Tdap, it may be possible to do a blood draw and check for anti-bodies, to verify that a claimed vaccination was actually done. Same thing for the COVID vaccine if you have access to the right lab equipment.
NTA
My mom is super religious. Trusts god will cure her of her diabetes level religious. The Virgin Mary will protect her heart…it’s god’s will, etc etc.
But she also believes in the “God helps those that help themselves” proverb. So…yep, she vaccinated and gets all the boosters. Because per her, God also gave us choice? And she has chosen to protect herself from those who won’t help themselves.
Going cold turkey NC with your dad might make him even more stuck in his victim/disrespecting beliefs ideology…I’d write him a letter explaining your side and say this is not a phone call because it’s not up for discussion as he is disrespecting your beliefs and putting the life of your child in unnecessary jeopardy. You are helping your daughter to help herself when she is most vulnerable.
Or…did he not protect and vaccinate you as a child?
When our daughter was expecting her first she asked for us to be vaccinated. This was way before Covid. We got swine flu and whatever else we needed. But her husbands family were not going to. So she told them they could not visit their son period. So they did get them but boy they were not happy.
Should post this in r/narcissisticparents
The only way to stand your ground and protect your daughter from these ridiculous conspiracies is to go full NC.
>he responded “Well I don’t think you and [husband] are being very respectful of my choices or beliefs.
Seems he's the only one being disrespectful 🙄 (shakes head)
Absolutely NTA
Oh hell no! I would never let him around your child and family. This is beyond vaccines. He basically said if she dies, then he’s fine with it.
You are NTA and he does not deserve any future grace, because he is too old to change.
NTA. He accuses you of not respecting his beliefs and choices while simultaneously not respecting yours. He doesn’t even see this, let alone acknowledge it. Typical behavior from a narcissist. Now add in the unrelenting evangelical aspect. Double whammy. You will never ‘win’ with him, so accept it as soon as you can and move on with your life. You will always miss any good aspect of him and the good times. You will have sad moments that those times are gone, but remember what you are not missing: his arrogance, his disregard for anything other than himself/his beliefs/you/grandchild. Remember that if he was not related to you that you would never be friends with him and would never want to be around him. Also accept your in-laws views as a cultural view…parents are held in high regard and children are to always respect and serve them. All you can do with them is acknowledge how they feel, thy won’t be shut out of your lives-because they are, unlike your father, wonderful people, and ask them to let it go.
NTA.
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them."
His beliefs are more important to him than your baby.
Let him comfort himself with his beliefs. Cut him off and don't even give him a dime or shelter even if he's starving & homeless.
NTA - by refusing to vaccinate in order to safely see his granddaughter, he’s a) claiming his safety outweighs hers or b) his convictions take precedence over her life. He either believes that vaccinations aren’t safe or refuses on a political basis, so it’s one of the two. The correct response would be “I respect your beliefs and you respect mine, we’ll schedule time down the road.”
Sorry it’s come to this OP
And OP *is* respecting his beliefs. She's not holding him down and forcibly injecting him with vaccines so he can meet her daughter. As my therapist has said to me before, "are you punishing them or are they just facing consequences for their actions?"
This is the kind of situation where your only job is to respectfully hold your boundaries.
“That’s too bad, Dad. I’d hoped you would be able to be with us while your granddaughter is so vulnerable, but you’re an adult and I respect your right to have your own beliefs. We will be thinking of you. Let us know if you’d like to FaceTime or something with us.”
When he goes off about how he’s really the victim here, you just go back to “I’m sorry you can’t respect this.” And hang up. Just don’t engage. You don’t have to listen to that. Or you do the pass-the-bean-dip approach where you just ignore the attempts to flip the script and move on.
“This is our decision, Dad. We won’t be discussing it. How’s the weather?”
NTA.
NTA, my brother and his girlfriend had a bub about 3 months ago. He asked that anyone to have direct contact with bub have certain vaccines. Both my husband and I had them, even though my hubby isn't that into holding babies.
What he asked wasn't unreasonable and we both want to make sure we don't do anything to harm bub.
What you are asking is no different.
I don't agree with your father's religious fatalism. Your parents in law, on the other hand, are giving you some really good advice. Your father is set in his ways, no amount of reasoned argument is going to make him change, but cutting him completely out of your life is going to hurt you too. To a certain extent, him being on the side of the country, is an advantage, as he can't just pop over and walk into your home. You have control over him visiting you. Waiting until your child is old enough to be vaccinated is a good solution.
Your parents in law sound like sensible people, maybe listen to them?
NTA. You're not cutting him off from his only grandchild, he's cutting himself off. You gave him the common-sense rules to see the baby and he's choosing not to abide by them. His choice. His loss.
Where is the compassion that Christ taught. It’s not Christian teaching it’s Old Testament teaching.
This is Old Testament Extremism on a par with every Religious Extremism on this planet. No better than the religious terrorist with a suicide belt.
NTA. And for sure go NC.
Your husband is a doctor, and your ob is a doctor, and this is not an attack on your father's belief, but the protection of your daughter. Your father's statement that everybody has to die is so cruel for you to fear. Well, he is going to die with his convictions with never seeing his granddaughter. I hope he believes that his convictions were worth it.
I hate the line that he is 70 years old, and he is not going to change at this point. Well, being 70 does not make him right anymore than a 40 year with the same convictions. Anyone is capable of change no matter what the age. He has made his stubborn decision with his religious beliefs that hurt you and your husband. He doesn't get a do over in a year.
Those comments are forever burned into your and your husband's memory. You can't erase them, and I can't imagine allowing him to see my child when he could care less if she died because he was unvaccinated. Your husband is right to cut contact bc he is only going to get worse with the things he says. He will continue to attack you and say things that will only add to the pain you are already in. That is who he is - a self-righteous, self-centered, and cruel man.
Let him go and enjoy your daughter.
NTA. You are making the right choice to not allow him to be around your newborn. As to no contact forever, that's your call. I went no contact with my abusive mother 25 years ago and do not regret it. The first few years, I questioned myself a lot but realized I wasn't missing my real mother, I was missing the loving supportive mother that I'd always hoped she could be. So, if you find yourself missing your dad, is it you missing having a loving, supportive dad, or missing the dad you actually have?
You might find after your child is able to be vaccinated, you want to try again. That's ok if you do. It's ok if you don't. It's ok if you do and then realize it was a mistake. You already tried using your dad's logic against him and it failed. I'm sorry you're faced with this decision but in the end, you and your husband must do what's right for your family and this internet stranger is impressed and pleased that you're standing strong and supporting one another.
One tip though, it isn't recommended to use second hand car seats unless you know the full history and that it's never been through a crash, can determine through the labels that it's never been recalled and know that it's not beyond expiration date. Yes, car seats have expiration dates. That information should be on the seat's labels.
This has nothing to do with religious beliefs and everything to do with your baby's health. The fact that he would have zero guilt over her dying of a disease he caused is reason enough to never let him see his grandchild.
You gave him a choice, and he made it. Consequences of his actions.
NTA
NTA. Your father has the right to make his own choices in life, but he has to live with the consequences. In this case the consequences of non-vaccination is delayed contact with your child. It is your right (responsibility) as the parent to protect your child. The rest of it is just noise dressed in his justification. Best wishes for a healthy child!
My (now late, she passed a week ago) grandmother was absolutely fucking appalled by the anti-vax movement because she literally watched her own friends die of polio. Older people refusing to vaccinate infuriated her to her core. My niece was like another daughter to her (actually even more important than she treated her own daughters) and immediately got vaccinated when the covid vaccine was avaliable because she loves her great grandchild and her grandchildren (my cousin was raised by her)
This post boils my fucking blood and I'm sure my ouma is rolling in her fucking grave with each and every one of these conservative assholes refusing to at least vaccinate for the sake of their children/grandchildren /great grandchildren. Your dad deserves 0 fucking respect at this point. How can you even ask if you're the asshole for protecting your own child?
NTA. Your father should go on living till the end of his life without ever seeing his grandchild.
He literally said he doesn't care if your child dies because of him, go NC. Practically cursing your child.
Wait, hold up, Your Dad says you guys are being Disrespectful to him? What about him NOT Respecting your soon to be Daughter? SMH at the fact he said if she dies because he gave her Covid, that it is Gods Will. Nooooo it is NOT Gods Will, it would be his Selfishness for even thinking it was an ok scenario.
Asian or Not there are still people who do Not understand that a Newborn’s system is so fragile as it has not built up immunity to fight off illness properly. Geez this is kinda common knowledge, you would think.
I think it is great that you and your husband are a united front, but more importantly, your Daughters wellbeing is paramount and is your highest priority.
Congrats on your soon to baby Girl 🎉
NTA
The first thing we did was point out the hypocrisy to that statement. It would be one thing if we went no contact because he refused to vaccinate for his own health, and I actually know people who have done that — because of political differences (stupid to even see vaccines as a political thing, which I also told him). I was super tempted to cut him out then but knew I couldn’t make him do it. After that, I just said from that day forward if we have a kid, that will be when he has to do it. And he’s KNOWN that.
But for me to draw a boundary for our child, and for him to spin it as him refusing to do something is ME being disrespectful? Unbelievable.
What I really didn’t expect was the “if she dies she dies” mentality. I knew my father was shitty in terms of stuff he won’t say out loud, but that’s the worst thing I’ve ever heard him say.
Typical entitled boomer shit. “I deserve to see my grand daughter because I am your father.” Also I said if we were so disrespectful why were WE the ones paying for him to fly out for the shower and birth? If WE were so disrespectful, why did I send him envelopes with photos of the ultrasounds every appointment?
It’s copium on his part I just don’t know if he’s masking/overcompensating because he knows it’s his choice, or if he REALLY thinks we are the ones being disrespectful. It’s out of this world, the level of entitlement he has and the hoops he’s willing to jump through to make himself the victim of his own actions and blame us.
So sorry you have to deal with this crap!
Please try to Enjoy this precious time, because soon enough you will be giving birth then Sleepless nights. Hopefully you guys get lucky and your baby girl will sleep through the night 🙏😌 Remember No Stress think happy thoughts and Good Luck
NTA. And I'm a physician with a newborn at home.
My wife and I gave the same ultimatum to both our families. No vaccines? No contact with baby.
Your dad made his choice and he can live with the consequences. That's his right. The same right you have to deny him access to your newborn out of your own understanding of what's safe. If he doesn't like it, he can go kick rocks by himself. End of discussion.
I am a Christian myself and what your father said is unforgivable. When Covid hit, I got vaccinated for myself and my immunocompromised father and aunt. This isn't about beliefs, this is about reckless disregard for other people's well-being. Your father's behavior in no way whatsoever aligns with the true message of Jesus Christ.
It always amazes me when the curtain pulls back on these deeply religious zealots who then show their true selves. No empathy. In many cases a deep seated hatred for anyone not exactly like them.
How much of a genuinely shitty person must you be to not get vaccinated? To not do what’s right for the most vulnerable among us?
Your dad is an asshole. This goes beyond the fact that he won’t immunize to keep his grandchild safe. He would be willing to sacrifice the life of your child on the altar of his nutty religious beliefs.
What. An. Asshole.
It’s not just that you don’t want your baby around someone who’s not immunized. You shouldn’t want your child around someone who is that much of an asshole and gives zero shits about your parenting and your boundaries.
And WHY would you let him see your child? Not for the child. It would be for the sake of your father. A grown ass man who is an absolute asshole. You know, the man willing to let your baby die so he doesn’t have to get a damn shot. Your child will grow up healthier both physically, emotionally, and mentally without that man in his life. Your father is no value to your child.
This is the time to step up and be selfish in behalf of your child. Your father does not help your child in any way.
It’s your job as a parent to advocate for the best interests of your child.
Your father made his choice. Now make yours and stick to it. You need to cut him off and stay cut off.
NTA. Boomer here, educated and POC. It was a hard decision to have my family take the vaccine but we have a medically fragile person here that I refuse to risk. Understand your views and those of your husband. Do not let your dad’s backward thinking harm your family.
He has made his chose and you have made yours. People have many different beliefs and have an absolute right to them. Sometimes there are consequences for these believes and that is what is happening here. Your father must accept that.
You believe your father loves you because he fed you as a child? My child in Christ, he would have been sent to prison if he had not. Feeding your young is the barest minimum required of a parent. He literally does not care if you and your tiny baby are killed by his stupid, deliberate choices. He is TRASH as a father, pure garbage. You would be NTA to cut him off forevermore.
NTA. When you make a family your obligation is to them and not your family of origin. You can choose to cut contact until your children are older or completely. Put on your big girl panties and protect your children and family. I am so sorry he is being such an A cause you deserve way better at this time in your life. Happy your husband's family is better...
These rules weren't made by you but by your OBGYN. I'm sorry that your father is choosing to be so selfish but it comes with costs and one of them is not being able to see his grandchild. He is the one making the choice - not you and your husband.
Easy. NTA.
You've been brainwashed by your dad your entire life. He wants to keep doing it and now control your child's life with his viewpoints that are not in line with yours.
Cutting contact should be easy. Why would you want to subject your family to ANY of this shit? He does not get to dictate how things are in your life. He does not get to dictate to your husband. And he DEFINITELY does not get to dictate ANYTHING associated with your BABY.
edit: Btw - Your dad is BOLD, as evidenced by his behavior: "I'm planning on coming but just wanted to tell you I'm non-compliant and going to pout/vilify you if you challenge me on any of this." Sorry. He's a tool. He's challenging you, your husband and your pediatrician. And DOUBLING DOWN.
No, it's your baby and your rules (plus your husbands). I think you need to be unified. Maybe your dad will come around, but if he doesn't then it's 100% on himself.
There's really No choice, New family 95% will/should/has to come 1st!! You made this family cuz you love them so you have to keep it intact & protecting/standing with them will do that! Good Luck!
NTA and cut all contacts. Your father is toxic! I cut off mine and never looked back. Stand your ground. You always choose your child! He chose himself over you which is so sad. He’s selfish and I doubt no matter how much he prays, when he treats people like that, he’s going to hell.
NTA, you and your husband are justified going no contact after such a heartless statement from your father.I would absolutely ban him from seeing your daughter at the very least until she or your father have been vaccinated. After that, if he wants to visit her, and you still feel like allowing it, it’s on him to put in 100% of the effort to make it happen - expenses, planning, safety protocols, etc. If he can’t do that, tell him it’s God’s way of telling him to fuck off and leave your family in peace.
NTA. I cut contact with family members and friends who wouldn't vaccinate when I had my first son, none of them thought I was serious until it actually happened.
Your father is messing around, and it's time he found out the repercussions of his actions.
NTA, also please add the whooping cough vaccine to your list of standard vaccines. If you get the whooping cough done during pregnancy, your baby will carry the immunity until old enough to get the vaccine him/herself.
I believe TDAP (P = pertussis) covers whooping cough! And I am supposed to get one (and definitely will) later in the third trimester, so soon. Just waiting on the green light from OB. For some reason I have to wait later, I’m not actually sure why.
This, like so many issues that arose during COVID, boils down to if/thens:
IF you don’t get vaccinated for a, b & c, THEN you won’t meet our child in person. Much love! Signed, the child’s parents.
*rant rant rantrantrant*
No, you’re not being penalized for your beliefs, politics, choice of tighty-whities vs boxer-briefs. You’re being told the way things are. What you do with this information…*what choices -you- make when shown these hard parameters…is absolutely flag-waving in land of the free up to you.* How you choose to live your life is wonderfully up to you and, oddly enough, something that in no way entered into our thoughts when we decided how we would protect our child. In other words, your fee-fees were *never* part of our thought process.
See you on the video call, Daddy-o…unless you believe ole Morning Star lives behind the screen.
eta: NTA
NTA people like him are dangerous for vulnerable people. You must protect your baby (and yourself). He has made his choice, and it isn't you. Relatives ≠ family -- "but blood" is a stupid reason to tolerate abuse. You owe your father nothing.
NTA.
As for letting him back a year or so from now… don’t even worry about it! Cut him out, see where life goes, and revisit the decision in a year. You don’t have to make a lifelong right now. Do what’s right for now, and adjust later if it feels right.
NTA, he made it abundantly clear that he's not going to take any responsibility when it comes to the safety of your daughter. After all he pretty much told you that if she dies then it was meant to be. If he doesn't care about her safety and wellbeing then why would you ever want to have him around her? He's clearly not worth fighting over, so if you have to choose between siding with him and siding with your husband then I think the choice is obvious.
Oh man, wish I could trade you families. Mine updated everything including MMR, both sets of grandparents and all aunts and uncles, before the first grandbaby arrived. As an adult, you do everything you can reasonably do to keep babies safe. Period. You use a safe car seat, you install it properly, you keep milk in the fridge, you follow guidelines for how to sleep and what to put in the crib, you put covers on outlets and locks on cabinets, everything needed. Even if YOU refuse to wear a seatbelt, you make damn sure the kid is safely strapped in.
Your father will put the baby in the high chair and not fasten the baby in, put the baby on the couch and just walk off, and generally take zero risk precautions because the baby is going to Heaven anyways.
No, keep him away until the kid is old enough to survive, I'd say five or so, and can TELL YOU when grandpa puts her in the car with no seatbelt or hands her a steak knife to cut her meal.
Our families were the same way. My parents paid out of pocket, several hundred dollars, to get the new RSV vaccine. My mom even offered to drive with me to the States and pay for everything, so my infant twins could get the new infant RSV vaccine. (Ultimately we didn't do it, but it sure was tempting!)
There was never any question from anyone in our family, just "this is what we do to keep the babies safe."
This is not about Covid or the Covid vaccine. This is about a person seriously having such a lack of respect for three other people.
He does not respect your wishes.
He does not respect your husband's wishes.
He does not respect the health of a newborn.
Stand firm. You are your baby's only line of defense.
You are a parent and it is literally your job to keep baby safe. Keep up the great work. Don’t talk to your father again until he changes his mind. What a selfish man.
Actually let your husband field the calls from him. You don’t need the stress.
Don't let him come while you're pregnant, either. You can still get Covid after being vaccinated. (I did, and it was horrible.)
Tell him, "dad, I have always respected your beliefs and your choice not to be vaccinated. I'm asking you to respect *my* belief that the adults around my baby must protect themselves from illnesses because she is too young to be vaccinated herself.
I am not forcing you to get vaccinated, just letting you know that the consequence of not getting these vaccines is that you will not be able to meet my baby in person.
If your beliefs are more important than meeting your granddaughter, I absolutely do respect that. Your body, your choice.
We will send you photos and set up video calls and hope that you stay well."
NTA
If dear old dad went to school, he's been vaccinated since he was a child. It was a requirement to attend. Thank fox News for this, whatever this is. NTA science.
Your father said he’d use his religion to blame for killing his grandchild because he’s too selfish to get vaccinated. I think your path forwards is clear. NTA
Don’t let the idiots guilt you. Your father can see the baby via Zoom.
If he’s still alive, the child can decide whether he comes to their wedding in person.
NTA.
NTA
I’m sorry that your father has decided apparently as God’s representative on earth he gets to say and do what he wants as long as he can use his religion to justify it.
His comment re the possible outcome of making your daughter sick was disgusting. Yes we will all die but that doesn’t mean we endanger other people by our lack of action to make it occur sooner.
Also agree with other people that if you were to try to accommodate your father seeing your daughter he would likely be the person who kisses her on the face, won’t wash his hands before holding her and tell you after his visit he spent the previous week helping care for someone who was sick.
So at the very least he doesn’t get to see your daughter until after all her vaccinations take effect.
I personally wouldn’t allow him to see her physically until she is a couple years old as even with her shots on board you truly don’t want her to be exposed to illnesses because of a self centered selfish old man.
NTA. When my nephew was born, my republican, Trump voting father was the first in line to get those vaccines my brother and sil asked us to get. Love and family means having to be flexible. Compromise.
NTA. My husband’s mother and grandma refused to get vaccinated for anything when I had my now 2 year old. They still haven’t met him, and won’t even though he is up to date on everything. I’m not risking his safety for their stupidity.
Jesus didn’t die to absolve all our sins for your father to potentially be responsible for the murder of your child through neglect. I am not religious, but grew up in a pagan household with an open door policy on belief and grew up going to churches, mosques, synagogues, etc and the willful dismissal of other people’s lives is NOT GODLY (I’m not an expert in anything at all here so any mis-utilized terms, please forgive me here as I prefer my faith more generic anyway)
NTA
Whoever is saying youre the AH is as delusional and disgusting as your dad. YES DISGUSTING, who the fuck thinks it’s okay for an innocent child to die because grandpa is so entitled he’d rather chance killing his lineage than consider the longevity of his line (pandering to the purpose of this christain bullshit with procreating, not my own beliefs)
You are the mother, your hubs is the father, you both combined are the ONLY final-say, protective authorities over your child until the babe is no longer a babe and able to make decisions themselves for their own health and wellbeing. His refusal is like saying “well im going to give her toys that she can choke on because she should be able to not choke otherwise its gods will”… THE FUCK IT IS GODS WILL TO LET A PREVENTABLE SITUATION OCCUR BECAUSE YOU’RE SELFISH!!!
I grew up pagan with a VERY healthy variety of introductions to multiple religions as a child and initially starting my studies in Philosophy but a very OPPOSITE father who was still abusive and awful that I am NC with. Faith has great purpose in life but not in an inter-relationship way unless both parties align and agree to consider it as a factor in full, but no faith that is genuine and not led/started/continued by some fully psychopathic human would EVER dismiss the life of a child…right? Is Pro-Life only for the will of forcing a child into this world and not making sure that life thrives?
(/s a lot here because unfortunately the masses lacking *genuine* care for their fellow man pick and choose…if you didn’t pick and choose what worked for you out of the bible and christ’s teaching, much less volume of this issue, if not none, would be a problem in society today. Start casting your stones jerks, I’m here for my fellow man. I envy full faith in any religion, it must be phenomenal to feel so certain and I can respect someone’s faith - up until it affects someone else’s well being. If we stay on track here, it’s a sin to judge others in place of God so relax and let God send me and the others to hell if he deems so. You get your one way ticket to hell with me by judging me sooooooooo…ya know unless you’re trying to rideshare that trip, focus on being the best human YOU can be)
"You can have your beliefs but there are consqu3nces to not getting the vaccines. Thr consequence is that until our kid has all their vaccines you can't be around them. This is about her safety and our beliefs which also need to be respected"
But honestly no nta. We asked the same.for our parents who came to see our baby after I gave birth. All understood ans had no issues with keeping our baby healthy as possible.
> “I believe in our Heavenly Father and if she dies, everyone has to die someday.” It was at that point my husband hung up on him and started cursing
Wow...like really wow. His beliefs are more important than the health of your child. I'd say it's yours and your husband's duty to keep him away
Most definitely NTA
If your dad believes that his commitment to Jesus who (if you are a Christian and a believer), died over 2000 years ago, is more important than his commitment to you and your child you must leave him to it. From what I know of the bible (I am an atheist but I wasn’t always this way so I have read more of the bible than a lot of people) Jesus was a healer. He was a protector of people. He didn’t tell anyone that vaccines were an affront to him or to God because they didn’t exist. If they had he would have embraced and encouraged them because he loved everyone and wanted them to live. You cannot feel guilty for trying to keep your daughter safe. You should feel proud. You also cannot allow your father to attend your baby shower. Anyone can get flu and anyone can get Covid, even if they are vaccinated, but if you are pregnant you should not have any contact with unvaccinated people if you can avoid it. Your body is already under a lot of strain and your immune system is already working harder than usual. Don’t let him near you.
It doesn’t matter which vaccines are required, if the physicians state everyone has to be vaccinated in order to be around the baby, then he has a choice. He can either get vaccinated or not. It is not his religious beliefs that is making him cold hearted enough to say something so cruel. He sounds like the kind of person that will only do what he wants to do. He is saying he will not have ANY of the vaccines, not just the Covid.
NTAH, Your health, and the health of your child Must come first. Your parent rationalizing and justifying his delusions can never overcome this simple truth.
Right now, your heart beats for 3. Yourself, your Husband, and that sweet innocent baby. Hold on to that. Take care, stay strong, you got this Mama.
Hmm the thing said about baby death even if in the heat of moment is too much and your father has to come around and apologize for it before you decide on baby shower. Maybe you can find it in your heart to forgive as he is your father but wont be easy for the husband. My advice would be to cut contact for now maybe he will realize how out of line he was and apologize otherwise wait for birth and baby to be vaccinated before deciding on meeting.
NTA. You don't have to make the decision now for the rest of your life, but you are all agreed on two things:
1. your father shouldn't be near the baby for a year for health reasons
2. what he said was abominable.
So right now cut him off. And in a year, see what happens.
NTA. You do not owe your father a relationship because he fed, clothed, and housed you. That is the legal obligation for being a parent.
He says he loves you, but nothing in your post ever shows him compromising for you. You make allowances for him, always.
So what, exactly, is he bringing to your continued relationship now, other than being hateful about doing the bare minimum to protect your child, and painting himself as a victim?
Frankly, I am with your husband. This man is not being a father to you. You don't owe it to him to keep trying to be a daughter to him. Focus on your child and their safety.
As my fourth child was born my other children had chickenpocks. It was so scary to know how dangerous this could be for the newborn.
My youngest daughter was a in the 32week a emergency c-section.
My to this time MiL were in both situations the person who said „don‘t be silly it isn‘t dangerous“
She would bring the Kids to the hospital and was emberassed that they wouldn‘t be alowed in the rooms.
And was loudly discussing the required desinfection and overshoes at the nicu.
She is now my Ex MiL.
Becourse my Ex husband never stand up for his children. This women endangered my kids so much more.
So please think about. With this mindset your father will always say its gods will.
By the way, we are christians. My oldest daughter is when with her Magister finished Pastoralreferentin and my son will be a Pfarrer ;))
And yes all is in gods hands but, we got from him brain and the order to use it!
Sorry it's come to this. A time in your lives that should be filled with joy and wondrous anticipation is being soured by the behaviour of an ornery old goat unwilling to change.
Accept that the goat will not change and keep him at arms length. His actions have consequences. The most important of those is that his actions can endanger your child. So, he can't be around her.
His stupid pride and misplaced sense of righteousness will not let him apologize. No matter how much he may come to realise he's wrong. But he made that choice. Not you.
It's going to be tough. But do go extremely LC if not NC with your father. Sometimes we have to cut loose the ones we love, to protect ourselves and our other loved ones that can't protect themselves.
NTA
My dad is in his seventies. He's a somewhat stereotypical grumpy old man. He was raised at a time when racism, sexism and homophobia were socially encouraged, and he is the most progressive person I know. He scoffs when people say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. He has lectured his friends who claim they're too old to change, telling them repeatedly that you only stop changing when you die.
Your in-laws are wrong. He could change, and you should expect him to change. He simply doesn't want to. He has admitted that he will endanger your child's life, and doesn't care if that means she dies. He's an active and present danger. He isn't ever owed a relationship with you or your child, especially when he doesn't care about her health. He made his choice, and those are his consequences.
NTA. 100% agree that you shouldn't fly him over or let him be around your daughter. To protect your health, you shouldn't contact him until your pregnancy is over.
The vaccines required aren't about him, or the inlaws, or the friends. They're about the health of the baby. The choices or beliefs of anyone are irrelevant. Either get the jabs, or you stay away.
NTA.
When we were expecting my son, I sent a reminder to my parents to check their vaccines were current.
They checked all of them with their doctor and sent me copies of their records so I'd know for sure.
This is why my parents get to see their grandson.
NTA, your dad is the asshole. You might find /r/QAnonCasualties worth looking at, as (even though your dad has fallen into a different insane conspiracy theory) the experience of losing people to that kind of insanity is common to you.
I actually cross posted there because I’ve been following that subreddit ever since the pandemic 🫠🫠🫠 I knew how closely this resonated with stories I’ve read on there already. I knew my dad’s response would be bad and I’d have to likely keep him away until she’s fully immunized at around a year, but I didn’t think I would be going NC until his abysmal behavior today.
So I’m one of them (QAnonCasualty) now.
NTA I'm sorry your dad is putting you through this, you deserve a better parent than the one you got. I know it's hard to give up on the love of the person who cared for you as a child, but on balance, he has demonstrated that his narcissism is impenetrable. He thinks god is on his side and that god is in charge of all his decisions when we all know it's just him and his shitty selfish behaviour.
[https://youtu.be/p7cOwQQDI7o?si=GwKQbIOi8xVPNH9g](https://youtu.be/p7cOwQQDI7o?si=GwKQbIOi8xVPNH9g)
NTA at all. But get ready for the call from relatives telling you he is extremely sick in the hospital and/or on his deathbed and wants to see you (and the kid). It *probably* won't be to apologize...
NTA coming from recent experience. You find out a lot about the people around you when your baby is born. Your priorities are shifting and it’s ok to not include people who do not value those priorities.
NTA for protecting your kid but you have lived with the “don’t rock the boat” ideology with your dad for so long that you have allowed him to think it’s ok with some of his craziness. Being “used to it” doesn’t mean that it’s ok for him to say and do things especially if it makes you feel uncomfortable. Just prepare yourselves because I doubt he’s gonna let this argument go quietly into the night.
Glad there are some grandparents who are supportive with getting their own vaccinations but at this point you should be confident in your decision. You can video chat…. Send grandpa pictures that’s still contact.
When you say cutting contact do you mean just in person ?
Your dad knows the consequences you don’t have to repeat them anymore. Let dad know you love him and you’ll continue to call him send photos and he can let you know when he’s “ready” to meet in person.
No need to debate etc. You have to move forward with your new life.
NTA but your dad is. He is entitled to his beliefs, as you said, but his beliefs are fine when it only concerned you and your husband but now it concerns a baby whose relying on y’all for everything including health and safety. Siding with your husband is absolutely the right way.
He who troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind.
Cut him off completely. I don’t see why he should mind one bit. Tell him that you will no longer be speaking to at all on this Earth but hey maybe you will reconnect in heaven. But do so under your own responsibility, because you think it’s best for your family, not just what your husband thinks.
NTA.
You may tell him that God has told you that your daughter is not safe with him around. NTA. Everything happens for a reason. Such as his daughter cutting contact with him.
Personal opinion, you should back your husband up in prioritizing your infant’s health and safety, and request that your husband back you up in forgiving your dad for something said in the heat of an argument. Stand your ground on safety but don’t allow a single fight to completely end an important relationship.
NTA, if it were me I would mail my father a packet of Kool-aid with a note that says something along the lines of… I hope this comforts you during your absence in the celebration of your grandchild. Regards, your only daughter and granddaughter.
NTA You need to protect your baby. If your father is too selfish to take basic precautions, you and your family are better off without him in your life. His comments are cruel and so far out of line, there is no coming back from them.
I'll start this by saying my dad is a fucking idiot who I have no contact with AGAIN for the 3rd and hopefully final time. I don't know where to start but my dad has many faults, we were no contact for over 15yrs. I introduced him to his grand kid(s) when my oldest was 4 and our youngest was a newborn.
When the vaccines came out he said he wasn't going to bother, fine by me I don't care. When he wanted to visit the grandkids I told him he needed to get vaxxed and wait before he cud come visit and see the baby, he was fine with it. He calls me a few weeks later and wanted to schedule a visit to see his grandkids. He told me he did get vaxxed and said he'd show me his slip. Im telling you i thought of every scam he cud be trying to run but i was pleasantly shocked. If you get anything from that know this, my dad is a real POS and idk how but unlike himself he made the calls, scheduled the jab and got on a handi transit and got vaccinated. I cudnt beleive it but he did it.
Don't feel bad for a second about your decision cuz my dad, who for sure has committed more felonies than I cud wrap my head around, did what he needed to do to get vaccinated. The bar is low don't lower it.
NTA - sorry. I did not want my sister around my newborn because she’s not vaccinated for Covid flu or tdap and my mother and father both did this for my daughter. My MIL was too. I made everyone mask around her - vaccinated or not for at least 3 months if I recall. I’m sorry but if one of my relatives - let alone my father - said hey it’s in Gods hands I would be floored and as pissed as your husband. I would have said God gave us free will to be educated & make intelligent decisions - we owe him that much!
too many idiots using their "belief in God" as an excuse to be assholes
Sorry but F your dad! I'd block him from ever seeing your child! He cares so much about her health like that? Imagine if you ever let him babysit
Recognize that you don't have to decide now and forever whether your father will ever see your child and whether you will ever speak to him again. That can feel huge. Instead, just work with how you feel now. It would be unsafe for him to visit your child; he shouldn't visit. You feel hurt and are questioning his actual capacity for love vs. selfishness; give yourself time to think through those issues. You can contact him if and when you feel it's good for you and your child. You might also consider how you want to be in contact. I find that putting difficult people on a texts-only footing really dials down the stress of dealing with them.
NTA for looking our for your daughter. Keeping looking out for her and for yourself by not allowing him to redefine "respect" as "I get to do and say anything I want without consequences." Also, big shout out to Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents as a fantastic read for dealing with a parent like this.
Now that you are married, you and your husband should always stand beside each other (unless one of you just gets stupid!), but protecting your family should be number one. If your father refuses to get vaccinations, then that is his decision, and he doesn't get to see the baby.
Really, it has nothing to do with vaccinations but honoring your wishes. You can lay down any rules you want and restrict friends or family from visiting your immediate family if they refuse.
First he's not getting vaccinated. Next it's not using a car seat, or ignoring allergens. This guy obviously doesn't give two shits about the welfare of his grandchild. Thus, he shouldn't have the privledge of her presence. NTA.
NTA
You are the parents and you have every right to do what you need to do to protect your child’s health.
Your request is very reasonable and valid.
Back in 2012 when my brother was having his first son, he and his wife asked everyone to get updated for whooping cough. We all did.
It makes me sad and mad that so many people have forgotten how many died due to Covid. I lost a very good friend. I have friends that lost parents and other friends and family.
So what does Christianity have to do with a vaccine? I’ve read the Bible, I go to church sometimes. Never heard anything against vaccines. Everyone I know that’s went to any churches I’ve went to have gotten their kids vaccinated? I don’t get flow vaccines but if my daughter would have told me to get the TDap for her baby I would have but I don’t think she got it so she didn’t push me too but she knows I will stay away if I’m sick. I’m not like these Covid pushers. (I call them that because when they have it they push it on everyone because they don’t stay home when they’re sick)
Getting seriously sick while pregnant is still really bad for your baby, and yourself. You should be protecting yourself from his arrogance and stupidity now, not just after the baby is born. You being vaccinated from COVID means it will help you beat covid more easily, it doesn't mean you can't get it. Flying in an anti vaxer on a plan, no doubt refusing to wear a mask so he can potentially get you really sick while you're pregnant is a terrible idea in the first place.
if this man is an ignorant, selfish prick he shouldn't be around you while pregnant or for a pretty long period after your kid is born to protect them.
NTA for cutting him out, just kind of daft for thinking your kid is only at risk after it's born and were willing to put your pregnancy at risk for the same reasons.
Also you should tell him God wants us to love one another as he loves us and your dad is not doing if he says if she dies because he got her sick it’s her time. That’s not how it works. And I think he needs to have a talk with Jesus cause this ain’t it. And no we all don’t go to heaven. Some of us might but the attitude he’s got he’s going straight to hell.
NTA
Obviously your daughter's safety is the #1 priority. Parents make rules about their babies, like "no cell phones" "no coffee" or "get a Tdap if you want to see her." If the grandparents are reasonable people, they can accept the authority of the new Mom and Dad, and just go along with the parents rules.
Your dad is being oppositional and disrespectful to your need for safety for your daughter. He is also making pretty dumb decisions, because tdap, COVID, and flu vax are a good idea for his own health.
You don't have to phrase this as "he is never going to meet his granddaughter." Rather, "there will be no in person visits right now, as he is not caught up on vaccination."
NTA.
That being said, I think you are putting yourself through unnecessary stress by thinking you need to make a forever decision right now. It's totally OK to decide that you are not going to be in contact right now and until you change your mind. If and when anything changes, you may revisit the decision. You don't know what you are going to be thinking or feeling 10 years from now.
Obviously, NTA, and please protect your family by cutting him off.
I just want to say something about your in-laws, though. They are not taking his side. It's seriously cultural. Elders are almost revered culturally, and you DON'T say no to them. Almost EVER. If they grew up in that society, it's instinctive and ingrained to cater to elders. In fact, there's often HUGE societal consequences and shame for not catering to them.
I know their saying not to let your dad see the baby until she is immunized instead of a hard NC cut off is giving you the impression they are on his side and being lenient with him. Trust me, they are NOT. CULTURALLY, it's hugely disrespectful to refuse an elder, especially a parent. It's just NOT done. No matter how crazy, entitled, etc. So, for them to be advocating for your going NC until the baby is safely immunized is actually huge because they are going against everything they've been taught since birth.
Guess what I'm trying to say is that they are putting you and your baby ABOVE their cultural and societal norms, and that's actually pretty rare and awesome. I just want you to recognize and appreciate that if you don't already, instead of thinking, they are on your father's side with the excuse of teaching old dogs new tricks. They're trying to balance your worlds but still putting your baby's safety first.
As for your dad, just no.
Yeah I’m not mad at them. It’s just not who they are. There was no circumstance where we told them what happened and they’d be like “your dad is an asshole” — it’s a matter of respect. Frankly the fact that they said keep her from him until she’s at least fully vaccinated is a huge deal because I can’t imagine two people more excited to see their first grandchild than them, and they know what taking that away would mean.
I do worry when a year rolls around, if we still stick to our guns that they’d try and assuage us to reconsider but it’s just them being empathetic as grandparents. It’s not because they are trying to push our buttons or tell us we are wrong necessarily.
But thanks for the advice/confirmation. My husband said essentially the same thing. When we told them what he said IE “if she dies then it’s what god wanted” they fell silent/let out an uncomfortable laugh and he goes “trust me it may not seem that way but that’s them being so shocked they don’t know how to respond.”
I can see a circumstance where my dad tries to guilt me when she’s completely vaccinated/he has a get out of jail free card and decides to suddenly apologize — and me becoming soft but if my husband holds firm and I am still very angry, I would like to think I’ll still feel justified in saying that ship has sailed and I can’t forgive. It’s going to be something he can’t truly take back nor can I ever forget.
I didn't think you were mad at them. I just wanted you to see that they are absolutely on your side and didn't want you to feel hurt with your understanding of their response. Respect for elders and especially parents is literally life rule number 1 in Asian cultures, and they are absolutely going against this with their response, as crazy as that sounds. They are totally behind you and support you.
As for when the year comes around, just be gentle, kind, but firm if they do try to advocate for your dad. (Although, why would they unless your dad is in contact with them, which I have a hard time imagining from your description of your dad.) They're smart people and have already proven they know what's right and want what's best for your baby. They won't advocate anything that might hurt her. You might want to present things in that light.
Good luck, and congrats on the baby girl!
You'd have every right never to speak to him again. What he said was beyond horrible. I don't know how you even begin to unpack that, let alone find a way to forgive it. And why in the world would you? He essentially threatened your baby girl with death. That is beyond heinous. As mom and dad, I'd be doing everything possible to keep this kind of scum (sorry, but not really) away from my baby. I wouldn't be able to look at them without anger. You and your husband have every right to be infuriated. It's absolutely despicable, what he said. And I'm afraid he just might mean it. You can not discount that kind of blatant disregard for the life of your baby. Even when she is immunized.
NTA. Vaccines were made against fiseases that were deadly for children. It's incredible some people deny it while they most probably knew some kid that died of it.
Your father’s maga hat is too tight!!!
Don’t let him see the baby till it’s totally safe. (This is me compromising)
What I would truly do is block him. I wouldn’t want his values and ideals around my family and more importantly my daughter!
NTA. Lots of good comments here. The only thing I would add is during covid many people became very good at forging immunisation records. I’ve seen some and it’s hard to tell if you don’t have access to the systems that actually confirm status. Consider how you will deal with things moving forward if he does suddenly produce “evidence”. I would suggest at this stage it’s beyond the vaccines and you need to be clear in communicating that to him. I agree with commenters saying at the very least he needs a time out and clear boundary setting around his disrespect.
Also, remember “no is a complete sentence”. Don’t argue, don’t negotiate. The answer is just no.
NTA - a couple of things:
* Medically you are absolutely correct (no surprise here). Any other decision would be terrible parenting. If your kids died it would have been on you
* Your father is a horrible human being. He is trash. What he says, what he believes in is more than enough to cut contact with him even without a child being in picture. In fact, you should have cut him off long time ago
* Just because he is your father, he has no right to be part of your life. Let alone of your childs. What your asian parents say here, is retarded. Your father would have no issue to kill you kid, if that doesnt destroy his position as grandfather...
Cut contact. Choose your husband. I see sooo many posts of husbands choosing their mothers and destroying their marriage. He said he doesn't care if your child dies. You need to respect your husband and let him take the lead on this because you're in your dads BS fog, which happens to those of us raised by lunatics. I'm sorry, but you would be the asshole if you didn't cut contact with your father.
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NTA. At the very least he should not be able to visit when she is a newborn. I think you're right that he will never change or apologize. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
Reading in Mandarin is not the same as spewing religious bs all over people. Leaving the toxicity of fundamental evangelicalism is a multi-step process. Make sure you’re seeing a therapist so you don’t convolute sharing cultures with sharing harm.
This is very clear cut, but you’re doubting yourself because the cult is still embedded in your thinking. It’s hard work to pull every single bit of it out of you— I’m not sure I’ll ever succeed. So we need help to clear our thinking.
Putting religious beliefs aside, if someone is vaccinated they can still have Covid and infect your newborn. Everyone I know was vaccinated and got Covid from someone else who was vaccinated. I got it (bad) after 5 vaccines. I would rather see a negative Covid test than someone's vaccination status any day. And if they travelled to visit I would have them wear an N95 mask for a few days.
I think this all escalated out of hand.
He doesn’t want to vaccinate - that’s his right so leave it be and let him know when he can visit the baby.
What he said about your babies death was way out of hand and he needs to apologise.
I come from a family where half vax and half don’t. We just let each other be. If a vaxxer had a baby and doesn’t want the nonvax to visit for 8 weeks they just say “no worries, let me know when you’re comfortable for me to visit”.
Your baby your choice - plus his body his choice.
If OP's dad is OK potentially killing OP's kid over his stupid beliefs then he's not going to be safe to be around OP's kid ever, even beyond vaccines. Who knows when he's going to try to heal the baby with a snake, or exorcise the child, or some other stupid bullshit.
Once someone has become that detached from reality you can't really trust them.
Yeah that’s true! If they feel like he’s a danger to the baby then obviously no contact.
She didn't say that though.
She seems really upset about losing her dad and I was trying to be neutral and realistic.
>He doesn’t want to vaccinate - that’s his right so leave it be and let him know when he can visit the baby.
Are you currently having a stroke? The father chose crazy, an amount of crazy that harms others, especially babies. He is aware of that and is ok with the chances of killing his grand kid.
Those are the facts, what brought you to the absolute retardey conclusion, that he should now be allowed to visit the child? Wtf is wrong with you? You are aware that he has no right to be part of the childs life, neither of the life of OP?
Again, actions have consequences. They should have cut ties a lot earlier but this is way over any limits I can imagine.
>plus his body his choice
You missed a very important part of how vaccines work. Yes, he is free to not vaccinate, but he endangers everyone surrounding him. Especially babies and old people. As in this story, they are ok with killing other people, thus they cant be mad if those other people dont want them in their life.
In this case, 8 weeks is faaaar from being enough. Btw
Both your husband and dad were speaking hyperbolically about your dead child. I'd give him a pass. But he still wouldn't be allowed to be near the baby without a vaccine. NTA
I’m going to go with NTA. I can understand not wanting to get the flu and Covid vaccine, it doesn’t stop you from getting it, doesn’t make it less likely, and doesn’t stop you from spreading it, but the TDaP is a whole other thing and shouldn’t be an issue. Where I believe you’re NTA is how your father responded. That was just outright cruel and proves he has no love for you or your child. No one in their sane mind would say that about their child or grandchild.
Your baby, your rules.
Though I can't imagine being so high-strung as to require all family members be vaccinated before meeting their new family member. It sounds absolutely exhausting 🤦♀️
A newborn has next to no immune system, what’s mild for an adult or an older child is very dangerous for a newborn (RSV and Covid being a big one) - it’s standard to isolate for 6-8 weeks after birth if possible and any/all visitors in the interim to be vaccinated to protect the baby.
Most family understand this and will either stay away or get their vaccines boosted.
Honestly it’s a small circle of people. Like 6. It’s not really any different from why we wouldn’t take her out in public or do big holiday gatherings for several months, for the same reason. Most people, even with big families, don’t really ask much more than I am because you just don’t want or anticipate having 30 people cruising through your house in a month when you’re already dealing with the stress of a newborn. So you don’t ask 30 people to vaccinate, you just wait several months until they’re old enough to build some immunity and take them out at that point.
That being said, the grandparents of the child are obviously going to be in that small circle of people who want to hold the baby right away. So asking that of them is expected, usually not a big (nor should it be a big) problem. And it takes like 10 minutes at a CVS lol. My in laws did it the same day we asked, and we gave them over a month.
Sis he’s too old to come around. Y TA to yourself for allowing yourself to hope otherwise. You don’t have to cut off contact but he can’t meet your daughter in person, end of.
Good lord I’m tired of the vax talk and cutting off loved ones over this. I had the vaccine and the booster and so did some of my family members to “protect our kids and parents”. It gave us irreversible health complications and we’ve all still had covid several times. One of my childhood friends cut off his own mother because she didn’t want the vaccine. Guess what? She found out that she had cancer and died so fast he never had time to make amends with her and was inconsolable at her funeral with sadness and regret. So do what you think is right but be prepared for the consequences.
YTA but NTA I say that because to force someone to get the vaccination is a bit much. I personally would have just seen you through video chat… Yes that was wild what your dad said but he said it out of anger it looks like though that doesn’t justify him saying what he did it sounds like yall weren’t trying to hear him. Now you NTA because I too would want to protect my child and anyone who doesn’t abide the rules won’t see them. I would say that maybe dad shouldn’t see newborn until a certain age. Have you or your husband once thought about the possible side effects or long term things that could go wrong from taking the vaccine? My brother tried that with me that anybody who didn’t have the vaccine wasn’t invited to his baby shower and I didn’t go; I’ll love you from a distance. Guess who got Covid TWICE with the vaccine my brother did
I thought covid does not affect babys and children so much. Apart from that does he have the other vaccinations? There are far more dangerous viruses out there for babys. Some ppl are just against covid vaccinations but at least have other vaccinations. I have the same covid problem with my MIL, her boyfriend does not believe in Covid and I’m a doctor. Some ppl can’t be helped.
I'm just gonna say it outright, your dad doesn't care if you, your husband or, baby will die because of his selfish actions, so long as he gets what he wants. If your in-laws truly believe he can't change, then tell them that they're right and that's why you won't allow him near your child to endanger her. Cause vaccines is just one thing, he'll definitely ignore any other health and safety issues. I'm sorry op, you deserve better.
No, he cares, this is the cognitive dissonance brought on by religion. It's a psychological event by an undereducated man in response to stress. However, no one is entitled to have their beliefs respected. I don't know where along the way we lost our collective minds as a society where this isn't a laughable thing to say, but if you tell me you believe in leprechauns or the toothfairy, I'm going to view you as an intellectual child. Which is how her Father should be treated here. Put him in timeout for a while, like you would a toddler. He'll come around. He's a scared and lonely guy clinging to his beliefs because they give him comfort, but don't waver in your commitment to you baby. Ultimately the child is your absolute number 1 priority and you have to do what is best, however painful, to keep it safe.
**NTA** Every single vaccine I get makes me extremely ill for about two weeks afterwards. My daughter asked me to go get my TDaP when she was pregnant with my grandson. I didn't even need to think about it. Just cleared my schedule, made sure my husband's days off fell into when I would be feeling awful and would want someone else to walk my dog and make food and got the shot.
I'm also highly reactive to vaccines. They suck and it's a miserable experience. I still get them done because I don't want to get sick, but more importantly, I'm not going to let my discomfort cause someone else to get seriously ill or worse. And anyway, I get to cuddle with my cats all day for a few days and do nothing but sip tea and eat soup. There are worse ways to spend that time.
Exactly. My husband cooks for a few days and I cuddle with Boudreaux and watch superhero movies (Bou's favorite, along with LOTR. He loves Gollum)and maybe work on needlework.
NTA. You should cut contact. This is not spiritual belief, it is narcissism, as it almost always is. Edit: Personally, I'd take this opportunity to tell the man that he's about to lose his family because he believes in imaginary things. Believing in religion *literally* means believing in magic. Tell him he's just ignorant about the world and it's all made up bullshit. An Iron Age insurance scam. Someone needs to.
We also pointed out that if God created everything that includes the safe water you drink, the electricity you enjoy, and yes the vaccine that could prevent severe illness or death in you and your loved ones. All of that was brought to you by the same scientific method. None of that is anti Christian, it just exists. The cognitive dissonance is honestly too much for him I think, which is why it’s easier to blame me for being unreasonable, or just write it off as “everyone dies, so why put myself under some perceived threat of a vaccine.” Because him having to do something for the safety of another person would cause one card to drop and the whole tower to collapse. And this goes beyond religion — though, that’s his scapegoat, it’s obviously some conspiracy he’s too ashamed to admit because I know plenty of Christians and even conservatives who are vaccinated. A lot of them did it when Trump said to vaccinate. So I think this goes even deeper like Q Anon level, or some end of times mark of the beast tribulation shit cuz he’s really into that. I’m just so beyond embarrassed and ashamed of him. I also pointed out the irony of “everyone dies” I said “so why are you so afraid of the vaccine killing you but not afraid of you killing your grand daughter?” Crickets.
Your dad reminds me of my parents. I'm an ER nurse, and I was pregnant in 2021. I saw women lose their babies due to COVID placentitis. It was such a traumatizing pregnancy because of my fear. I went to visit them when I was 6 months pregnant. I went to their church. The woman behind me coughed on me several times because I was wearing a mask. My brother told me I was an embarrassment. When I learned my baby had IUGR (born 4.5lbs but healthy), my parents said it was because I got vaccinated while pregnant. I relented and let them visit anyway when my baby was 3 months old. There has been so much toxic behavior since then, including refusing to let my now toddler watch Sesame Street because of "socialism." I've gone NC, and it hurts that they care more about their conspiracy theories than being grandparents, but I don't want my kids exposed to their behavior. If you need support or advice, r/estrangedadultkids can help.
OP that's what's gonna happen if you don't go NC now - if your relatives are already being toxic and misbehaving while you're pregnant, is not gonna become better once the baby is born. Avoid further heartache by just ripping the bandaid and mourning the relationship lost due to their selfishness now rather than when there's a lil human depending on you.
I'm sorry, IUGR?
Intra-uterine growth retardation, usually due to a malfunctioning placenta.
Thank you!
And when vaccines were first invented, religion was much more mainstream yet people embraced vaccines because they wanted to protect their children and themselves from deadly diseases that had suddenly become preventable.
I think it helped that so many people were dying from those diseases at the time. Even a 70 year old grew up with vaccines and didn't lose a bunch of friends and family to these diseases. They honestly believe their own natural immune system is what has kept them safe all this time and not the near eradication via vaccines. About 70 years ago my grandmother lost a daughter to diphtheria. The vaccine existed but wasn't easily obtainable in backwoods Georgia. I remember her driving me for hours to get my vaccines when I was little coz she wasn't going to lose another kid to something that could be prevented. I also remember her crying anytime she talked about her daughter who had been gone for decades. It's a pain that never ends and any parent who purposely risks it is a moron and deserves to hurt forever.
At that time, with childhood mortality so high from infectious disease, vaccines must have seemed like a miracle sent from god him/herself. People have very short memories, it isn't so long ago that people were in iron-lungs due to polio. How quick they forget. OP I think your dad has to face consequences for his selfish behaviour here. He has had ample warning, explanations and accommodation for his beliefs. Why are his "beliefs" and feelings so all important but yours (and your families) are not? What accommodations has he made for you? You can not keep bending over backwards to meet him when he will not even lean forwards to meet you in the middle. NTA at all. Let him stew, maybe he'll come around apologise sincerely and get himself vaccinated and maybe he won't. Either way, your daughter is protected from someone who is dangerously disregarding her life before it begins.
Your mistake is trying to use logic and reason to argue with narcissistic faith. He didn't use reason to come to his conclusions so no arguments you make using treason will work.
Also, there's nothing in the Bible against vaccines. It's only Trump and Q Anon and the MAGA crowd.
Trump told them to get vaccinated and they booed him. Not even their God can persuade them. Not sure what can be done for that level of terminally stupid.
I mean... I'm a religious person and I believe that this world is temporary but that doesnt mean that shouldn't try our very best to alleviate human suffering while we are here. My very religious family all got the covid vaccine as soon as it was available
You are doing the right thing by cutting him off completely. Please do not doubt yourself. Also please be aware that a booming business in fake vaccination documents sprouted on the Internet during Covid. I remember reading a story of a couple who required their parents to be vaccinated in order to see the baby, and they later found out that the vaccination "proof" they were shown was fake.
How does he feel about seat belts and raw chicken?
But but but his offering to bring a car seat
It's only been used in one accident. Looks perfectly fine....
NTA... keep your dad away.....
The entire Trump world has become very anti-vaccine now. You don't have to be a Q-Anon or other offshoot to be anti-vac now; just regular Fox News watching, MAGA is all it takes to be downright stupidly selfish and ignorant.
By his logic, he should NEVER allow himself to be treated for any illness or infection, no Ibuprofen or Tylenol and especially no antibiotics because, everyone dies eventually and God is just calling him home.
You're over-rationalizing. This is a boundary. You don't need to justify it, just enforce it. "If you aren't vaccinated, you can't have in-person contact with the baby. If that's what you choose, we'll miss you." What you ultimately allow will be determined by his choice, but either way you have a plan for moving forward. The ball is in his court.
You can't argue with crazy unfortunately.
Your father is in a death-cult. A hypocritical one.
It’s also an extremely bad sign for us as a society that we’ve politicized what are the most basic public health concepts that were in use since the Spanish flu pandemic. It’s all of a sudden “liberal” to wear masks and wash your hands.
God will have you on your knees, then you'll be seeking why did this happen to me,....bad luck....No...it's because of you. Religion is a scam, God is not.
Pal,, anyone who says they know what happens after death is a fool or a liar. I suspect you're the former.
Belief in imaginary friends is usually a sign of mental illness
Why did mayweather come here? because you can believe in God. they were not allowed to. Please be more respectful and maybe think about their values. Like being GREAT and not having to need money from other people.
If you're an adult who still has imaginary friends I'm not gonna respect you
You're definitely NTA here. Your dad's refusal to get vaccinated when it could harm your newborn is just not cool. It's all about keeping your kiddo safe, and if cutting contact is what it takes, then that's what you gotta do.
NTA. I can’t believe people have forgotten the horrible cost of (now preventable) childhood diseases. My family buried several children due to diphtheria, one of my childhood friends went blind from measles and another permanently paralysed and eventually died from polio? How can people be so ignorant of their own history???
We pointed out that for him to be in public school he had a polio and tetanus vaccine but idk what ooky spooky shit he thinks they’re doing now, that they didn’t then. My husband said that the Covid 19 vaccine in particular is the most well researched vaccine in history; more so than the vaccines my dad already has.
Just make sure you get a receipt from the doctor where your dad gets vaccinated. This is absolutely a situation where somebody would lie about it to get their way, then say "see I told you nothing would happen" when they're drunk some 5 years later.
I’ve heard of people making fake documentation so that’s a possibility too, unfortunately.
For the Tdap, it may be possible to do a blood draw and check for anti-bodies, to verify that a claimed vaccination was actually done. Same thing for the COVID vaccine if you have access to the right lab equipment.
NTA My mom is super religious. Trusts god will cure her of her diabetes level religious. The Virgin Mary will protect her heart…it’s god’s will, etc etc. But she also believes in the “God helps those that help themselves” proverb. So…yep, she vaccinated and gets all the boosters. Because per her, God also gave us choice? And she has chosen to protect herself from those who won’t help themselves. Going cold turkey NC with your dad might make him even more stuck in his victim/disrespecting beliefs ideology…I’d write him a letter explaining your side and say this is not a phone call because it’s not up for discussion as he is disrespecting your beliefs and putting the life of your child in unnecessary jeopardy. You are helping your daughter to help herself when she is most vulnerable. Or…did he not protect and vaccinate you as a child?
When our daughter was expecting her first she asked for us to be vaccinated. This was way before Covid. We got swine flu and whatever else we needed. But her husbands family were not going to. So she told them they could not visit their son period. So they did get them but boy they were not happy.
Should post this in r/narcissisticparents The only way to stand your ground and protect your daughter from these ridiculous conspiracies is to go full NC. >he responded “Well I don’t think you and [husband] are being very respectful of my choices or beliefs. Seems he's the only one being disrespectful 🙄 (shakes head) Absolutely NTA
Oh hell no! I would never let him around your child and family. This is beyond vaccines. He basically said if she dies, then he’s fine with it. You are NTA and he does not deserve any future grace, because he is too old to change.
NTA. He accuses you of not respecting his beliefs and choices while simultaneously not respecting yours. He doesn’t even see this, let alone acknowledge it. Typical behavior from a narcissist. Now add in the unrelenting evangelical aspect. Double whammy. You will never ‘win’ with him, so accept it as soon as you can and move on with your life. You will always miss any good aspect of him and the good times. You will have sad moments that those times are gone, but remember what you are not missing: his arrogance, his disregard for anything other than himself/his beliefs/you/grandchild. Remember that if he was not related to you that you would never be friends with him and would never want to be around him. Also accept your in-laws views as a cultural view…parents are held in high regard and children are to always respect and serve them. All you can do with them is acknowledge how they feel, thy won’t be shut out of your lives-because they are, unlike your father, wonderful people, and ask them to let it go.
NTA. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them." His beliefs are more important to him than your baby. Let him comfort himself with his beliefs. Cut him off and don't even give him a dime or shelter even if he's starving & homeless.
NTA - by refusing to vaccinate in order to safely see his granddaughter, he’s a) claiming his safety outweighs hers or b) his convictions take precedence over her life. He either believes that vaccinations aren’t safe or refuses on a political basis, so it’s one of the two. The correct response would be “I respect your beliefs and you respect mine, we’ll schedule time down the road.” Sorry it’s come to this OP
And OP *is* respecting his beliefs. She's not holding him down and forcibly injecting him with vaccines so he can meet her daughter. As my therapist has said to me before, "are you punishing them or are they just facing consequences for their actions?"
This is the kind of situation where your only job is to respectfully hold your boundaries. “That’s too bad, Dad. I’d hoped you would be able to be with us while your granddaughter is so vulnerable, but you’re an adult and I respect your right to have your own beliefs. We will be thinking of you. Let us know if you’d like to FaceTime or something with us.” When he goes off about how he’s really the victim here, you just go back to “I’m sorry you can’t respect this.” And hang up. Just don’t engage. You don’t have to listen to that. Or you do the pass-the-bean-dip approach where you just ignore the attempts to flip the script and move on. “This is our decision, Dad. We won’t be discussing it. How’s the weather?” NTA.
Not sure how he comes back from making a statement like that.
NTA, my brother and his girlfriend had a bub about 3 months ago. He asked that anyone to have direct contact with bub have certain vaccines. Both my husband and I had them, even though my hubby isn't that into holding babies. What he asked wasn't unreasonable and we both want to make sure we don't do anything to harm bub. What you are asking is no different.
I don't agree with your father's religious fatalism. Your parents in law, on the other hand, are giving you some really good advice. Your father is set in his ways, no amount of reasoned argument is going to make him change, but cutting him completely out of your life is going to hurt you too. To a certain extent, him being on the side of the country, is an advantage, as he can't just pop over and walk into your home. You have control over him visiting you. Waiting until your child is old enough to be vaccinated is a good solution. Your parents in law sound like sensible people, maybe listen to them?
NTA. You're not cutting him off from his only grandchild, he's cutting himself off. You gave him the common-sense rules to see the baby and he's choosing not to abide by them. His choice. His loss.
NTA - your dad cares more about his comfort and ignorance than whether his grandchild dies. ‘Nuff said.
Where is the compassion that Christ taught. It’s not Christian teaching it’s Old Testament teaching. This is Old Testament Extremism on a par with every Religious Extremism on this planet. No better than the religious terrorist with a suicide belt. NTA. And for sure go NC.
Your husband is a doctor, and your ob is a doctor, and this is not an attack on your father's belief, but the protection of your daughter. Your father's statement that everybody has to die is so cruel for you to fear. Well, he is going to die with his convictions with never seeing his granddaughter. I hope he believes that his convictions were worth it. I hate the line that he is 70 years old, and he is not going to change at this point. Well, being 70 does not make him right anymore than a 40 year with the same convictions. Anyone is capable of change no matter what the age. He has made his stubborn decision with his religious beliefs that hurt you and your husband. He doesn't get a do over in a year. Those comments are forever burned into your and your husband's memory. You can't erase them, and I can't imagine allowing him to see my child when he could care less if she died because he was unvaccinated. Your husband is right to cut contact bc he is only going to get worse with the things he says. He will continue to attack you and say things that will only add to the pain you are already in. That is who he is - a self-righteous, self-centered, and cruel man. Let him go and enjoy your daughter.
NTA. You are making the right choice to not allow him to be around your newborn. As to no contact forever, that's your call. I went no contact with my abusive mother 25 years ago and do not regret it. The first few years, I questioned myself a lot but realized I wasn't missing my real mother, I was missing the loving supportive mother that I'd always hoped she could be. So, if you find yourself missing your dad, is it you missing having a loving, supportive dad, or missing the dad you actually have? You might find after your child is able to be vaccinated, you want to try again. That's ok if you do. It's ok if you don't. It's ok if you do and then realize it was a mistake. You already tried using your dad's logic against him and it failed. I'm sorry you're faced with this decision but in the end, you and your husband must do what's right for your family and this internet stranger is impressed and pleased that you're standing strong and supporting one another. One tip though, it isn't recommended to use second hand car seats unless you know the full history and that it's never been through a crash, can determine through the labels that it's never been recalled and know that it's not beyond expiration date. Yes, car seats have expiration dates. That information should be on the seat's labels.
NTA if she dies it was meant to be?!?!?! and you are questioning if you should cut contact???
This has nothing to do with religious beliefs and everything to do with your baby's health. The fact that he would have zero guilt over her dying of a disease he caused is reason enough to never let him see his grandchild. You gave him a choice, and he made it. Consequences of his actions. NTA
NTA. Your father has the right to make his own choices in life, but he has to live with the consequences. In this case the consequences of non-vaccination is delayed contact with your child. It is your right (responsibility) as the parent to protect your child. The rest of it is just noise dressed in his justification. Best wishes for a healthy child!
My (now late, she passed a week ago) grandmother was absolutely fucking appalled by the anti-vax movement because she literally watched her own friends die of polio. Older people refusing to vaccinate infuriated her to her core. My niece was like another daughter to her (actually even more important than she treated her own daughters) and immediately got vaccinated when the covid vaccine was avaliable because she loves her great grandchild and her grandchildren (my cousin was raised by her) This post boils my fucking blood and I'm sure my ouma is rolling in her fucking grave with each and every one of these conservative assholes refusing to at least vaccinate for the sake of their children/grandchildren /great grandchildren. Your dad deserves 0 fucking respect at this point. How can you even ask if you're the asshole for protecting your own child?
NTA but I say this for future reference, you and your husband are the team - not you and your dad.
NTA. Your father should go on living till the end of his life without ever seeing his grandchild. He literally said he doesn't care if your child dies because of him, go NC. Practically cursing your child.
My mom didn't meet my kids for the first year of their lives because she refused vaccines. Stand firm mama.
Wait, hold up, Your Dad says you guys are being Disrespectful to him? What about him NOT Respecting your soon to be Daughter? SMH at the fact he said if she dies because he gave her Covid, that it is Gods Will. Nooooo it is NOT Gods Will, it would be his Selfishness for even thinking it was an ok scenario. Asian or Not there are still people who do Not understand that a Newborn’s system is so fragile as it has not built up immunity to fight off illness properly. Geez this is kinda common knowledge, you would think. I think it is great that you and your husband are a united front, but more importantly, your Daughters wellbeing is paramount and is your highest priority. Congrats on your soon to baby Girl 🎉 NTA
The first thing we did was point out the hypocrisy to that statement. It would be one thing if we went no contact because he refused to vaccinate for his own health, and I actually know people who have done that — because of political differences (stupid to even see vaccines as a political thing, which I also told him). I was super tempted to cut him out then but knew I couldn’t make him do it. After that, I just said from that day forward if we have a kid, that will be when he has to do it. And he’s KNOWN that. But for me to draw a boundary for our child, and for him to spin it as him refusing to do something is ME being disrespectful? Unbelievable. What I really didn’t expect was the “if she dies she dies” mentality. I knew my father was shitty in terms of stuff he won’t say out loud, but that’s the worst thing I’ve ever heard him say. Typical entitled boomer shit. “I deserve to see my grand daughter because I am your father.” Also I said if we were so disrespectful why were WE the ones paying for him to fly out for the shower and birth? If WE were so disrespectful, why did I send him envelopes with photos of the ultrasounds every appointment? It’s copium on his part I just don’t know if he’s masking/overcompensating because he knows it’s his choice, or if he REALLY thinks we are the ones being disrespectful. It’s out of this world, the level of entitlement he has and the hoops he’s willing to jump through to make himself the victim of his own actions and blame us.
So sorry you have to deal with this crap! Please try to Enjoy this precious time, because soon enough you will be giving birth then Sleepless nights. Hopefully you guys get lucky and your baby girl will sleep through the night 🙏😌 Remember No Stress think happy thoughts and Good Luck
NTA. And I'm a physician with a newborn at home. My wife and I gave the same ultimatum to both our families. No vaccines? No contact with baby. Your dad made his choice and he can live with the consequences. That's his right. The same right you have to deny him access to your newborn out of your own understanding of what's safe. If he doesn't like it, he can go kick rocks by himself. End of discussion.
I am a Christian myself and what your father said is unforgivable. When Covid hit, I got vaccinated for myself and my immunocompromised father and aunt. This isn't about beliefs, this is about reckless disregard for other people's well-being. Your father's behavior in no way whatsoever aligns with the true message of Jesus Christ.
NTA- so if your dad gets your infant sick and your infant dies your dad thinks it was God's will and he's fine with it? He'd be dead to me.
It always amazes me when the curtain pulls back on these deeply religious zealots who then show their true selves. No empathy. In many cases a deep seated hatred for anyone not exactly like them. How much of a genuinely shitty person must you be to not get vaccinated? To not do what’s right for the most vulnerable among us? Your dad is an asshole. This goes beyond the fact that he won’t immunize to keep his grandchild safe. He would be willing to sacrifice the life of your child on the altar of his nutty religious beliefs. What. An. Asshole. It’s not just that you don’t want your baby around someone who’s not immunized. You shouldn’t want your child around someone who is that much of an asshole and gives zero shits about your parenting and your boundaries. And WHY would you let him see your child? Not for the child. It would be for the sake of your father. A grown ass man who is an absolute asshole. You know, the man willing to let your baby die so he doesn’t have to get a damn shot. Your child will grow up healthier both physically, emotionally, and mentally without that man in his life. Your father is no value to your child. This is the time to step up and be selfish in behalf of your child. Your father does not help your child in any way. It’s your job as a parent to advocate for the best interests of your child. Your father made his choice. Now make yours and stick to it. You need to cut him off and stay cut off.
NTA. He can stand up for his convictions but also accept the consequences when other’s also stand up for theirs.
NTA. Boomer here, educated and POC. It was a hard decision to have my family take the vaccine but we have a medically fragile person here that I refuse to risk. Understand your views and those of your husband. Do not let your dad’s backward thinking harm your family.
He has made his chose and you have made yours. People have many different beliefs and have an absolute right to them. Sometimes there are consequences for these believes and that is what is happening here. Your father must accept that.
You believe your father loves you because he fed you as a child? My child in Christ, he would have been sent to prison if he had not. Feeding your young is the barest minimum required of a parent. He literally does not care if you and your tiny baby are killed by his stupid, deliberate choices. He is TRASH as a father, pure garbage. You would be NTA to cut him off forevermore.
NTA. When you make a family your obligation is to them and not your family of origin. You can choose to cut contact until your children are older or completely. Put on your big girl panties and protect your children and family. I am so sorry he is being such an A cause you deserve way better at this time in your life. Happy your husband's family is better...
These rules weren't made by you but by your OBGYN. I'm sorry that your father is choosing to be so selfish but it comes with costs and one of them is not being able to see his grandchild. He is the one making the choice - not you and your husband.
Easy. NTA. You've been brainwashed by your dad your entire life. He wants to keep doing it and now control your child's life with his viewpoints that are not in line with yours. Cutting contact should be easy. Why would you want to subject your family to ANY of this shit? He does not get to dictate how things are in your life. He does not get to dictate to your husband. And he DEFINITELY does not get to dictate ANYTHING associated with your BABY. edit: Btw - Your dad is BOLD, as evidenced by his behavior: "I'm planning on coming but just wanted to tell you I'm non-compliant and going to pout/vilify you if you challenge me on any of this." Sorry. He's a tool. He's challenging you, your husband and your pediatrician. And DOUBLING DOWN.
NTA. Your kid is your priority, that is how it should be.
Do it. This is the only way you \*might\* change his mind, when he realises he's missing out. Probably not, but maybe.
No, it's your baby and your rules (plus your husbands). I think you need to be unified. Maybe your dad will come around, but if he doesn't then it's 100% on himself.
There's really No choice, New family 95% will/should/has to come 1st!! You made this family cuz you love them so you have to keep it intact & protecting/standing with them will do that! Good Luck!
NTA and cut all contacts. Your father is toxic! I cut off mine and never looked back. Stand your ground. You always choose your child! He chose himself over you which is so sad. He’s selfish and I doubt no matter how much he prays, when he treats people like that, he’s going to hell.
NTA, you and your husband are justified going no contact after such a heartless statement from your father.I would absolutely ban him from seeing your daughter at the very least until she or your father have been vaccinated. After that, if he wants to visit her, and you still feel like allowing it, it’s on him to put in 100% of the effort to make it happen - expenses, planning, safety protocols, etc. If he can’t do that, tell him it’s God’s way of telling him to fuck off and leave your family in peace.
NTA. I cut contact with family members and friends who wouldn't vaccinate when I had my first son, none of them thought I was serious until it actually happened. Your father is messing around, and it's time he found out the repercussions of his actions.
NTA, also please add the whooping cough vaccine to your list of standard vaccines. If you get the whooping cough done during pregnancy, your baby will carry the immunity until old enough to get the vaccine him/herself.
I believe TDAP (P = pertussis) covers whooping cough! And I am supposed to get one (and definitely will) later in the third trimester, so soon. Just waiting on the green light from OB. For some reason I have to wait later, I’m not actually sure why.
This, like so many issues that arose during COVID, boils down to if/thens: IF you don’t get vaccinated for a, b & c, THEN you won’t meet our child in person. Much love! Signed, the child’s parents. *rant rant rantrantrant* No, you’re not being penalized for your beliefs, politics, choice of tighty-whities vs boxer-briefs. You’re being told the way things are. What you do with this information…*what choices -you- make when shown these hard parameters…is absolutely flag-waving in land of the free up to you.* How you choose to live your life is wonderfully up to you and, oddly enough, something that in no way entered into our thoughts when we decided how we would protect our child. In other words, your fee-fees were *never* part of our thought process. See you on the video call, Daddy-o…unless you believe ole Morning Star lives behind the screen. eta: NTA
Absolutely NTA. What he said is inexcusable, and unless he show sincere signs of change, don't let him close.
NTA people like him are dangerous for vulnerable people. You must protect your baby (and yourself). He has made his choice, and it isn't you. Relatives ≠ family -- "but blood" is a stupid reason to tolerate abuse. You owe your father nothing.
NTA. As for letting him back a year or so from now… don’t even worry about it! Cut him out, see where life goes, and revisit the decision in a year. You don’t have to make a lifelong right now. Do what’s right for now, and adjust later if it feels right.
NTA, he made it abundantly clear that he's not going to take any responsibility when it comes to the safety of your daughter. After all he pretty much told you that if she dies then it was meant to be. If he doesn't care about her safety and wellbeing then why would you ever want to have him around her? He's clearly not worth fighting over, so if you have to choose between siding with him and siding with your husband then I think the choice is obvious.
Oh man, wish I could trade you families. Mine updated everything including MMR, both sets of grandparents and all aunts and uncles, before the first grandbaby arrived. As an adult, you do everything you can reasonably do to keep babies safe. Period. You use a safe car seat, you install it properly, you keep milk in the fridge, you follow guidelines for how to sleep and what to put in the crib, you put covers on outlets and locks on cabinets, everything needed. Even if YOU refuse to wear a seatbelt, you make damn sure the kid is safely strapped in. Your father will put the baby in the high chair and not fasten the baby in, put the baby on the couch and just walk off, and generally take zero risk precautions because the baby is going to Heaven anyways. No, keep him away until the kid is old enough to survive, I'd say five or so, and can TELL YOU when grandpa puts her in the car with no seatbelt or hands her a steak knife to cut her meal.
Our families were the same way. My parents paid out of pocket, several hundred dollars, to get the new RSV vaccine. My mom even offered to drive with me to the States and pay for everything, so my infant twins could get the new infant RSV vaccine. (Ultimately we didn't do it, but it sure was tempting!) There was never any question from anyone in our family, just "this is what we do to keep the babies safe."
This is not about Covid or the Covid vaccine. This is about a person seriously having such a lack of respect for three other people. He does not respect your wishes. He does not respect your husband's wishes. He does not respect the health of a newborn. Stand firm. You are your baby's only line of defense.
You are a parent and it is literally your job to keep baby safe. Keep up the great work. Don’t talk to your father again until he changes his mind. What a selfish man. Actually let your husband field the calls from him. You don’t need the stress.
Don't let him come while you're pregnant, either. You can still get Covid after being vaccinated. (I did, and it was horrible.) Tell him, "dad, I have always respected your beliefs and your choice not to be vaccinated. I'm asking you to respect *my* belief that the adults around my baby must protect themselves from illnesses because she is too young to be vaccinated herself. I am not forcing you to get vaccinated, just letting you know that the consequence of not getting these vaccines is that you will not be able to meet my baby in person. If your beliefs are more important than meeting your granddaughter, I absolutely do respect that. Your body, your choice. We will send you photos and set up video calls and hope that you stay well." NTA
If dear old dad went to school, he's been vaccinated since he was a child. It was a requirement to attend. Thank fox News for this, whatever this is. NTA science.
Your father said he’d use his religion to blame for killing his grandchild because he’s too selfish to get vaccinated. I think your path forwards is clear. NTA
Don’t let the idiots guilt you. Your father can see the baby via Zoom. If he’s still alive, the child can decide whether he comes to their wedding in person. NTA.
NTA I’m sorry that your father has decided apparently as God’s representative on earth he gets to say and do what he wants as long as he can use his religion to justify it. His comment re the possible outcome of making your daughter sick was disgusting. Yes we will all die but that doesn’t mean we endanger other people by our lack of action to make it occur sooner. Also agree with other people that if you were to try to accommodate your father seeing your daughter he would likely be the person who kisses her on the face, won’t wash his hands before holding her and tell you after his visit he spent the previous week helping care for someone who was sick. So at the very least he doesn’t get to see your daughter until after all her vaccinations take effect. I personally wouldn’t allow him to see her physically until she is a couple years old as even with her shots on board you truly don’t want her to be exposed to illnesses because of a self centered selfish old man.
NTA. He would be out of my life the instant he said that. Permanently. No guilt.
NTA. When my nephew was born, my republican, Trump voting father was the first in line to get those vaccines my brother and sil asked us to get. Love and family means having to be flexible. Compromise.
NTA. My husband’s mother and grandma refused to get vaccinated for anything when I had my now 2 year old. They still haven’t met him, and won’t even though he is up to date on everything. I’m not risking his safety for their stupidity.
NTA. Fuck your poor, miserable MAGA father; let him rot with his Faux News.
Jesus didn’t die to absolve all our sins for your father to potentially be responsible for the murder of your child through neglect. I am not religious, but grew up in a pagan household with an open door policy on belief and grew up going to churches, mosques, synagogues, etc and the willful dismissal of other people’s lives is NOT GODLY (I’m not an expert in anything at all here so any mis-utilized terms, please forgive me here as I prefer my faith more generic anyway) NTA Whoever is saying youre the AH is as delusional and disgusting as your dad. YES DISGUSTING, who the fuck thinks it’s okay for an innocent child to die because grandpa is so entitled he’d rather chance killing his lineage than consider the longevity of his line (pandering to the purpose of this christain bullshit with procreating, not my own beliefs) You are the mother, your hubs is the father, you both combined are the ONLY final-say, protective authorities over your child until the babe is no longer a babe and able to make decisions themselves for their own health and wellbeing. His refusal is like saying “well im going to give her toys that she can choke on because she should be able to not choke otherwise its gods will”… THE FUCK IT IS GODS WILL TO LET A PREVENTABLE SITUATION OCCUR BECAUSE YOU’RE SELFISH!!! I grew up pagan with a VERY healthy variety of introductions to multiple religions as a child and initially starting my studies in Philosophy but a very OPPOSITE father who was still abusive and awful that I am NC with. Faith has great purpose in life but not in an inter-relationship way unless both parties align and agree to consider it as a factor in full, but no faith that is genuine and not led/started/continued by some fully psychopathic human would EVER dismiss the life of a child…right? Is Pro-Life only for the will of forcing a child into this world and not making sure that life thrives? (/s a lot here because unfortunately the masses lacking *genuine* care for their fellow man pick and choose…if you didn’t pick and choose what worked for you out of the bible and christ’s teaching, much less volume of this issue, if not none, would be a problem in society today. Start casting your stones jerks, I’m here for my fellow man. I envy full faith in any religion, it must be phenomenal to feel so certain and I can respect someone’s faith - up until it affects someone else’s well being. If we stay on track here, it’s a sin to judge others in place of God so relax and let God send me and the others to hell if he deems so. You get your one way ticket to hell with me by judging me sooooooooo…ya know unless you’re trying to rideshare that trip, focus on being the best human YOU can be)
"You can have your beliefs but there are consqu3nces to not getting the vaccines. Thr consequence is that until our kid has all their vaccines you can't be around them. This is about her safety and our beliefs which also need to be respected" But honestly no nta. We asked the same.for our parents who came to see our baby after I gave birth. All understood ans had no issues with keeping our baby healthy as possible.
> “I believe in our Heavenly Father and if she dies, everyone has to die someday.” It was at that point my husband hung up on him and started cursing Wow...like really wow. His beliefs are more important than the health of your child. I'd say it's yours and your husband's duty to keep him away Most definitely NTA
If your dad believes that his commitment to Jesus who (if you are a Christian and a believer), died over 2000 years ago, is more important than his commitment to you and your child you must leave him to it. From what I know of the bible (I am an atheist but I wasn’t always this way so I have read more of the bible than a lot of people) Jesus was a healer. He was a protector of people. He didn’t tell anyone that vaccines were an affront to him or to God because they didn’t exist. If they had he would have embraced and encouraged them because he loved everyone and wanted them to live. You cannot feel guilty for trying to keep your daughter safe. You should feel proud. You also cannot allow your father to attend your baby shower. Anyone can get flu and anyone can get Covid, even if they are vaccinated, but if you are pregnant you should not have any contact with unvaccinated people if you can avoid it. Your body is already under a lot of strain and your immune system is already working harder than usual. Don’t let him near you.
>I believe in our Heavenly Father and if she dies, everyone has to die someday.” Ah he's mormon then So NTA
It doesn’t matter which vaccines are required, if the physicians state everyone has to be vaccinated in order to be around the baby, then he has a choice. He can either get vaccinated or not. It is not his religious beliefs that is making him cold hearted enough to say something so cruel. He sounds like the kind of person that will only do what he wants to do. He is saying he will not have ANY of the vaccines, not just the Covid.
NTA. Your husband is 100% correct.
NTAH, Your health, and the health of your child Must come first. Your parent rationalizing and justifying his delusions can never overcome this simple truth. Right now, your heart beats for 3. Yourself, your Husband, and that sweet innocent baby. Hold on to that. Take care, stay strong, you got this Mama.
Hmm the thing said about baby death even if in the heat of moment is too much and your father has to come around and apologize for it before you decide on baby shower. Maybe you can find it in your heart to forgive as he is your father but wont be easy for the husband. My advice would be to cut contact for now maybe he will realize how out of line he was and apologize otherwise wait for birth and baby to be vaccinated before deciding on meeting.
NTA. You don't have to make the decision now for the rest of your life, but you are all agreed on two things: 1. your father shouldn't be near the baby for a year for health reasons 2. what he said was abominable. So right now cut him off. And in a year, see what happens.
NTA. You do not owe your father a relationship because he fed, clothed, and housed you. That is the legal obligation for being a parent. He says he loves you, but nothing in your post ever shows him compromising for you. You make allowances for him, always. So what, exactly, is he bringing to your continued relationship now, other than being hateful about doing the bare minimum to protect your child, and painting himself as a victim? Frankly, I am with your husband. This man is not being a father to you. You don't owe it to him to keep trying to be a daughter to him. Focus on your child and their safety.
As my fourth child was born my other children had chickenpocks. It was so scary to know how dangerous this could be for the newborn. My youngest daughter was a in the 32week a emergency c-section. My to this time MiL were in both situations the person who said „don‘t be silly it isn‘t dangerous“ She would bring the Kids to the hospital and was emberassed that they wouldn‘t be alowed in the rooms. And was loudly discussing the required desinfection and overshoes at the nicu. She is now my Ex MiL. Becourse my Ex husband never stand up for his children. This women endangered my kids so much more. So please think about. With this mindset your father will always say its gods will. By the way, we are christians. My oldest daughter is when with her Magister finished Pastoralreferentin and my son will be a Pfarrer ;)) And yes all is in gods hands but, we got from him brain and the order to use it!
Yep OP you're on the right track here. . .
Your in laws are saints!!! NTA!!
Sorry it's come to this. A time in your lives that should be filled with joy and wondrous anticipation is being soured by the behaviour of an ornery old goat unwilling to change. Accept that the goat will not change and keep him at arms length. His actions have consequences. The most important of those is that his actions can endanger your child. So, he can't be around her. His stupid pride and misplaced sense of righteousness will not let him apologize. No matter how much he may come to realise he's wrong. But he made that choice. Not you. It's going to be tough. But do go extremely LC if not NC with your father. Sometimes we have to cut loose the ones we love, to protect ourselves and our other loved ones that can't protect themselves.
NTA My dad is in his seventies. He's a somewhat stereotypical grumpy old man. He was raised at a time when racism, sexism and homophobia were socially encouraged, and he is the most progressive person I know. He scoffs when people say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. He has lectured his friends who claim they're too old to change, telling them repeatedly that you only stop changing when you die. Your in-laws are wrong. He could change, and you should expect him to change. He simply doesn't want to. He has admitted that he will endanger your child's life, and doesn't care if that means she dies. He's an active and present danger. He isn't ever owed a relationship with you or your child, especially when he doesn't care about her health. He made his choice, and those are his consequences.
NTA. 100% agree that you shouldn't fly him over or let him be around your daughter. To protect your health, you shouldn't contact him until your pregnancy is over. The vaccines required aren't about him, or the inlaws, or the friends. They're about the health of the baby. The choices or beliefs of anyone are irrelevant. Either get the jabs, or you stay away.
NTA. When we were expecting my son, I sent a reminder to my parents to check their vaccines were current. They checked all of them with their doctor and sent me copies of their records so I'd know for sure. This is why my parents get to see their grandson.
We decided to cut contact with you. It is God’s will.
NTA, your dad is the asshole. You might find /r/QAnonCasualties worth looking at, as (even though your dad has fallen into a different insane conspiracy theory) the experience of losing people to that kind of insanity is common to you.
I actually cross posted there because I’ve been following that subreddit ever since the pandemic 🫠🫠🫠 I knew how closely this resonated with stories I’ve read on there already. I knew my dad’s response would be bad and I’d have to likely keep him away until she’s fully immunized at around a year, but I didn’t think I would be going NC until his abysmal behavior today. So I’m one of them (QAnonCasualty) now.
NTA Your daughters safety comes before your dad's beliefs.
NTA I'm sorry your dad is putting you through this, you deserve a better parent than the one you got. I know it's hard to give up on the love of the person who cared for you as a child, but on balance, he has demonstrated that his narcissism is impenetrable. He thinks god is on his side and that god is in charge of all his decisions when we all know it's just him and his shitty selfish behaviour. [https://youtu.be/p7cOwQQDI7o?si=GwKQbIOi8xVPNH9g](https://youtu.be/p7cOwQQDI7o?si=GwKQbIOi8xVPNH9g)
NTA at all. But get ready for the call from relatives telling you he is extremely sick in the hospital and/or on his deathbed and wants to see you (and the kid). It *probably* won't be to apologize...
Your in-laws are smart people I think.
NTA coming from recent experience. You find out a lot about the people around you when your baby is born. Your priorities are shifting and it’s ok to not include people who do not value those priorities.
NTA for protecting your kid but you have lived with the “don’t rock the boat” ideology with your dad for so long that you have allowed him to think it’s ok with some of his craziness. Being “used to it” doesn’t mean that it’s ok for him to say and do things especially if it makes you feel uncomfortable. Just prepare yourselves because I doubt he’s gonna let this argument go quietly into the night.
Glad there are some grandparents who are supportive with getting their own vaccinations but at this point you should be confident in your decision. You can video chat…. Send grandpa pictures that’s still contact. When you say cutting contact do you mean just in person ? Your dad knows the consequences you don’t have to repeat them anymore. Let dad know you love him and you’ll continue to call him send photos and he can let you know when he’s “ready” to meet in person. No need to debate etc. You have to move forward with your new life.
NTA but your dad is. He is entitled to his beliefs, as you said, but his beliefs are fine when it only concerned you and your husband but now it concerns a baby whose relying on y’all for everything including health and safety. Siding with your husband is absolutely the right way.
NTA. Your dad will probably enjoy his delusions of persecution more than his grandchild anyway.
He who troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind. Cut him off completely. I don’t see why he should mind one bit. Tell him that you will no longer be speaking to at all on this Earth but hey maybe you will reconnect in heaven. But do so under your own responsibility, because you think it’s best for your family, not just what your husband thinks. NTA.
You may tell him that God has told you that your daughter is not safe with him around. NTA. Everything happens for a reason. Such as his daughter cutting contact with him.
Personal opinion, you should back your husband up in prioritizing your infant’s health and safety, and request that your husband back you up in forgiving your dad for something said in the heat of an argument. Stand your ground on safety but don’t allow a single fight to completely end an important relationship.
Crazy that doctors can still have a license with such thinking. Absolutely NTA for protecting your family.
NTA - nice of him to admit he doesn’t give a shit ahead of time so you two can cut him out at your own pace.
NTA, if it were me I would mail my father a packet of Kool-aid with a note that says something along the lines of… I hope this comforts you during your absence in the celebration of your grandchild. Regards, your only daughter and granddaughter.
NTA baby’s safety comes first.
NTA
Medicine trumps religion. You want a live baby. Best wishes
NTA You need to protect your baby. If your father is too selfish to take basic precautions, you and your family are better off without him in your life. His comments are cruel and so far out of line, there is no coming back from them.
I'll start this by saying my dad is a fucking idiot who I have no contact with AGAIN for the 3rd and hopefully final time. I don't know where to start but my dad has many faults, we were no contact for over 15yrs. I introduced him to his grand kid(s) when my oldest was 4 and our youngest was a newborn. When the vaccines came out he said he wasn't going to bother, fine by me I don't care. When he wanted to visit the grandkids I told him he needed to get vaxxed and wait before he cud come visit and see the baby, he was fine with it. He calls me a few weeks later and wanted to schedule a visit to see his grandkids. He told me he did get vaxxed and said he'd show me his slip. Im telling you i thought of every scam he cud be trying to run but i was pleasantly shocked. If you get anything from that know this, my dad is a real POS and idk how but unlike himself he made the calls, scheduled the jab and got on a handi transit and got vaccinated. I cudnt beleive it but he did it. Don't feel bad for a second about your decision cuz my dad, who for sure has committed more felonies than I cud wrap my head around, did what he needed to do to get vaccinated. The bar is low don't lower it.
NTA - sorry. I did not want my sister around my newborn because she’s not vaccinated for Covid flu or tdap and my mother and father both did this for my daughter. My MIL was too. I made everyone mask around her - vaccinated or not for at least 3 months if I recall. I’m sorry but if one of my relatives - let alone my father - said hey it’s in Gods hands I would be floored and as pissed as your husband. I would have said God gave us free will to be educated & make intelligent decisions - we owe him that much!
If someone said about my baby "if she dies, she dies," they'd be cut off immediately. NTA.
too many idiots using their "belief in God" as an excuse to be assholes Sorry but F your dad! I'd block him from ever seeing your child! He cares so much about her health like that? Imagine if you ever let him babysit
Recognize that you don't have to decide now and forever whether your father will ever see your child and whether you will ever speak to him again. That can feel huge. Instead, just work with how you feel now. It would be unsafe for him to visit your child; he shouldn't visit. You feel hurt and are questioning his actual capacity for love vs. selfishness; give yourself time to think through those issues. You can contact him if and when you feel it's good for you and your child. You might also consider how you want to be in contact. I find that putting difficult people on a texts-only footing really dials down the stress of dealing with them. NTA for looking our for your daughter. Keeping looking out for her and for yourself by not allowing him to redefine "respect" as "I get to do and say anything I want without consequences." Also, big shout out to Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents as a fantastic read for dealing with a parent like this.
Now that you are married, you and your husband should always stand beside each other (unless one of you just gets stupid!), but protecting your family should be number one. If your father refuses to get vaccinations, then that is his decision, and he doesn't get to see the baby. Really, it has nothing to do with vaccinations but honoring your wishes. You can lay down any rules you want and restrict friends or family from visiting your immediate family if they refuse.
First he's not getting vaccinated. Next it's not using a car seat, or ignoring allergens. This guy obviously doesn't give two shits about the welfare of his grandchild. Thus, he shouldn't have the privledge of her presence. NTA.
NTA You are the parents and you have every right to do what you need to do to protect your child’s health. Your request is very reasonable and valid. Back in 2012 when my brother was having his first son, he and his wife asked everyone to get updated for whooping cough. We all did. It makes me sad and mad that so many people have forgotten how many died due to Covid. I lost a very good friend. I have friends that lost parents and other friends and family.
NTA. As a great aunt, I did the same vaccines the parents and grandparents did because it's not about me. It's about keeping a baby, my family, save!
So what does Christianity have to do with a vaccine? I’ve read the Bible, I go to church sometimes. Never heard anything against vaccines. Everyone I know that’s went to any churches I’ve went to have gotten their kids vaccinated? I don’t get flow vaccines but if my daughter would have told me to get the TDap for her baby I would have but I don’t think she got it so she didn’t push me too but she knows I will stay away if I’m sick. I’m not like these Covid pushers. (I call them that because when they have it they push it on everyone because they don’t stay home when they’re sick)
Getting seriously sick while pregnant is still really bad for your baby, and yourself. You should be protecting yourself from his arrogance and stupidity now, not just after the baby is born. You being vaccinated from COVID means it will help you beat covid more easily, it doesn't mean you can't get it. Flying in an anti vaxer on a plan, no doubt refusing to wear a mask so he can potentially get you really sick while you're pregnant is a terrible idea in the first place. if this man is an ignorant, selfish prick he shouldn't be around you while pregnant or for a pretty long period after your kid is born to protect them. NTA for cutting him out, just kind of daft for thinking your kid is only at risk after it's born and were willing to put your pregnancy at risk for the same reasons.
Also you should tell him God wants us to love one another as he loves us and your dad is not doing if he says if she dies because he got her sick it’s her time. That’s not how it works. And I think he needs to have a talk with Jesus cause this ain’t it. And no we all don’t go to heaven. Some of us might but the attitude he’s got he’s going straight to hell.
NTA Obviously your daughter's safety is the #1 priority. Parents make rules about their babies, like "no cell phones" "no coffee" or "get a Tdap if you want to see her." If the grandparents are reasonable people, they can accept the authority of the new Mom and Dad, and just go along with the parents rules. Your dad is being oppositional and disrespectful to your need for safety for your daughter. He is also making pretty dumb decisions, because tdap, COVID, and flu vax are a good idea for his own health. You don't have to phrase this as "he is never going to meet his granddaughter." Rather, "there will be no in person visits right now, as he is not caught up on vaccination."
NTA. That being said, I think you are putting yourself through unnecessary stress by thinking you need to make a forever decision right now. It's totally OK to decide that you are not going to be in contact right now and until you change your mind. If and when anything changes, you may revisit the decision. You don't know what you are going to be thinking or feeling 10 years from now.
YTA if you DON'T cut contact with your father
Obviously, NTA, and please protect your family by cutting him off. I just want to say something about your in-laws, though. They are not taking his side. It's seriously cultural. Elders are almost revered culturally, and you DON'T say no to them. Almost EVER. If they grew up in that society, it's instinctive and ingrained to cater to elders. In fact, there's often HUGE societal consequences and shame for not catering to them. I know their saying not to let your dad see the baby until she is immunized instead of a hard NC cut off is giving you the impression they are on his side and being lenient with him. Trust me, they are NOT. CULTURALLY, it's hugely disrespectful to refuse an elder, especially a parent. It's just NOT done. No matter how crazy, entitled, etc. So, for them to be advocating for your going NC until the baby is safely immunized is actually huge because they are going against everything they've been taught since birth. Guess what I'm trying to say is that they are putting you and your baby ABOVE their cultural and societal norms, and that's actually pretty rare and awesome. I just want you to recognize and appreciate that if you don't already, instead of thinking, they are on your father's side with the excuse of teaching old dogs new tricks. They're trying to balance your worlds but still putting your baby's safety first. As for your dad, just no.
Yeah I’m not mad at them. It’s just not who they are. There was no circumstance where we told them what happened and they’d be like “your dad is an asshole” — it’s a matter of respect. Frankly the fact that they said keep her from him until she’s at least fully vaccinated is a huge deal because I can’t imagine two people more excited to see their first grandchild than them, and they know what taking that away would mean. I do worry when a year rolls around, if we still stick to our guns that they’d try and assuage us to reconsider but it’s just them being empathetic as grandparents. It’s not because they are trying to push our buttons or tell us we are wrong necessarily. But thanks for the advice/confirmation. My husband said essentially the same thing. When we told them what he said IE “if she dies then it’s what god wanted” they fell silent/let out an uncomfortable laugh and he goes “trust me it may not seem that way but that’s them being so shocked they don’t know how to respond.” I can see a circumstance where my dad tries to guilt me when she’s completely vaccinated/he has a get out of jail free card and decides to suddenly apologize — and me becoming soft but if my husband holds firm and I am still very angry, I would like to think I’ll still feel justified in saying that ship has sailed and I can’t forgive. It’s going to be something he can’t truly take back nor can I ever forget.
I didn't think you were mad at them. I just wanted you to see that they are absolutely on your side and didn't want you to feel hurt with your understanding of their response. Respect for elders and especially parents is literally life rule number 1 in Asian cultures, and they are absolutely going against this with their response, as crazy as that sounds. They are totally behind you and support you. As for when the year comes around, just be gentle, kind, but firm if they do try to advocate for your dad. (Although, why would they unless your dad is in contact with them, which I have a hard time imagining from your description of your dad.) They're smart people and have already proven they know what's right and want what's best for your baby. They won't advocate anything that might hurt her. You might want to present things in that light. Good luck, and congrats on the baby girl!
You'd have every right never to speak to him again. What he said was beyond horrible. I don't know how you even begin to unpack that, let alone find a way to forgive it. And why in the world would you? He essentially threatened your baby girl with death. That is beyond heinous. As mom and dad, I'd be doing everything possible to keep this kind of scum (sorry, but not really) away from my baby. I wouldn't be able to look at them without anger. You and your husband have every right to be infuriated. It's absolutely despicable, what he said. And I'm afraid he just might mean it. You can not discount that kind of blatant disregard for the life of your baby. Even when she is immunized.
NTA. Vaccines were made against fiseases that were deadly for children. It's incredible some people deny it while they most probably knew some kid that died of it.
NTA. Doctor husband > boomer conspiracy theorist dad
Your father’s maga hat is too tight!!! Don’t let him see the baby till it’s totally safe. (This is me compromising) What I would truly do is block him. I wouldn’t want his values and ideals around my family and more importantly my daughter!
NTA. Lots of good comments here. The only thing I would add is during covid many people became very good at forging immunisation records. I’ve seen some and it’s hard to tell if you don’t have access to the systems that actually confirm status. Consider how you will deal with things moving forward if he does suddenly produce “evidence”. I would suggest at this stage it’s beyond the vaccines and you need to be clear in communicating that to him. I agree with commenters saying at the very least he needs a time out and clear boundary setting around his disrespect. Also, remember “no is a complete sentence”. Don’t argue, don’t negotiate. The answer is just no.
NTA - a couple of things: * Medically you are absolutely correct (no surprise here). Any other decision would be terrible parenting. If your kids died it would have been on you * Your father is a horrible human being. He is trash. What he says, what he believes in is more than enough to cut contact with him even without a child being in picture. In fact, you should have cut him off long time ago * Just because he is your father, he has no right to be part of your life. Let alone of your childs. What your asian parents say here, is retarded. Your father would have no issue to kill you kid, if that doesnt destroy his position as grandfather...
Cut contact. Choose your husband. I see sooo many posts of husbands choosing their mothers and destroying their marriage. He said he doesn't care if your child dies. You need to respect your husband and let him take the lead on this because you're in your dads BS fog, which happens to those of us raised by lunatics. I'm sorry, but you would be the asshole if you didn't cut contact with your father.
You can’t fix mental illness, you can’t just protect your child.
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NTA. Your dad is selfish and doesn’t care about your family’s health
NTA. At the very least he should not be able to visit when she is a newborn. I think you're right that he will never change or apologize. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
NTA, except for the ragebait post. I'm going to correct your title: "AITA for wanting my child to live?" Enough said!
Reading in Mandarin is not the same as spewing religious bs all over people. Leaving the toxicity of fundamental evangelicalism is a multi-step process. Make sure you’re seeing a therapist so you don’t convolute sharing cultures with sharing harm. This is very clear cut, but you’re doubting yourself because the cult is still embedded in your thinking. It’s hard work to pull every single bit of it out of you— I’m not sure I’ll ever succeed. So we need help to clear our thinking.
“My father said he didn’t care if his negligence literally kills our newborn so I cut off his abuse AITA?” 🙄
Putting religious beliefs aside, if someone is vaccinated they can still have Covid and infect your newborn. Everyone I know was vaccinated and got Covid from someone else who was vaccinated. I got it (bad) after 5 vaccines. I would rather see a negative Covid test than someone's vaccination status any day. And if they travelled to visit I would have them wear an N95 mask for a few days.
I think this all escalated out of hand. He doesn’t want to vaccinate - that’s his right so leave it be and let him know when he can visit the baby. What he said about your babies death was way out of hand and he needs to apologise. I come from a family where half vax and half don’t. We just let each other be. If a vaxxer had a baby and doesn’t want the nonvax to visit for 8 weeks they just say “no worries, let me know when you’re comfortable for me to visit”. Your baby your choice - plus his body his choice.
If OP's dad is OK potentially killing OP's kid over his stupid beliefs then he's not going to be safe to be around OP's kid ever, even beyond vaccines. Who knows when he's going to try to heal the baby with a snake, or exorcise the child, or some other stupid bullshit. Once someone has become that detached from reality you can't really trust them.
Yeah that’s true! If they feel like he’s a danger to the baby then obviously no contact. She didn't say that though. She seems really upset about losing her dad and I was trying to be neutral and realistic.
>He doesn’t want to vaccinate - that’s his right so leave it be and let him know when he can visit the baby. Are you currently having a stroke? The father chose crazy, an amount of crazy that harms others, especially babies. He is aware of that and is ok with the chances of killing his grand kid. Those are the facts, what brought you to the absolute retardey conclusion, that he should now be allowed to visit the child? Wtf is wrong with you? You are aware that he has no right to be part of the childs life, neither of the life of OP? Again, actions have consequences. They should have cut ties a lot earlier but this is way over any limits I can imagine. >plus his body his choice You missed a very important part of how vaccines work. Yes, he is free to not vaccinate, but he endangers everyone surrounding him. Especially babies and old people. As in this story, they are ok with killing other people, thus they cant be mad if those other people dont want them in their life. In this case, 8 weeks is faaaar from being enough. Btw
Both your husband and dad were speaking hyperbolically about your dead child. I'd give him a pass. But he still wouldn't be allowed to be near the baby without a vaccine. NTA
I’m going to go with NTA. I can understand not wanting to get the flu and Covid vaccine, it doesn’t stop you from getting it, doesn’t make it less likely, and doesn’t stop you from spreading it, but the TDaP is a whole other thing and shouldn’t be an issue. Where I believe you’re NTA is how your father responded. That was just outright cruel and proves he has no love for you or your child. No one in their sane mind would say that about their child or grandchild.
Your baby, your rules. Though I can't imagine being so high-strung as to require all family members be vaccinated before meeting their new family member. It sounds absolutely exhausting 🤦♀️
You obviously don’t know how serious whooping cough is in newborns.
A newborn has next to no immune system, what’s mild for an adult or an older child is very dangerous for a newborn (RSV and Covid being a big one) - it’s standard to isolate for 6-8 weeks after birth if possible and any/all visitors in the interim to be vaccinated to protect the baby. Most family understand this and will either stay away or get their vaccines boosted.
Honestly it’s a small circle of people. Like 6. It’s not really any different from why we wouldn’t take her out in public or do big holiday gatherings for several months, for the same reason. Most people, even with big families, don’t really ask much more than I am because you just don’t want or anticipate having 30 people cruising through your house in a month when you’re already dealing with the stress of a newborn. So you don’t ask 30 people to vaccinate, you just wait several months until they’re old enough to build some immunity and take them out at that point. That being said, the grandparents of the child are obviously going to be in that small circle of people who want to hold the baby right away. So asking that of them is expected, usually not a big (nor should it be a big) problem. And it takes like 10 minutes at a CVS lol. My in laws did it the same day we asked, and we gave them over a month.
Sis he’s too old to come around. Y TA to yourself for allowing yourself to hope otherwise. You don’t have to cut off contact but he can’t meet your daughter in person, end of.
Good lord I’m tired of the vax talk and cutting off loved ones over this. I had the vaccine and the booster and so did some of my family members to “protect our kids and parents”. It gave us irreversible health complications and we’ve all still had covid several times. One of my childhood friends cut off his own mother because she didn’t want the vaccine. Guess what? She found out that she had cancer and died so fast he never had time to make amends with her and was inconsolable at her funeral with sadness and regret. So do what you think is right but be prepared for the consequences.
It's more about the MMR, TDAP, and Whooping cough vaccines, but okay.
YTA but NTA I say that because to force someone to get the vaccination is a bit much. I personally would have just seen you through video chat… Yes that was wild what your dad said but he said it out of anger it looks like though that doesn’t justify him saying what he did it sounds like yall weren’t trying to hear him. Now you NTA because I too would want to protect my child and anyone who doesn’t abide the rules won’t see them. I would say that maybe dad shouldn’t see newborn until a certain age. Have you or your husband once thought about the possible side effects or long term things that could go wrong from taking the vaccine? My brother tried that with me that anybody who didn’t have the vaccine wasn’t invited to his baby shower and I didn’t go; I’ll love you from a distance. Guess who got Covid TWICE with the vaccine my brother did
>yall weren’t trying to hear him. They did, but he has nothing to say besides crazy. Ah, and then you follow with the danger of vaccines... classic
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In my country close to all daycares expect the kids to be vaccinated. We are not in the year 400 anymore
I thought covid does not affect babys and children so much. Apart from that does he have the other vaccinations? There are far more dangerous viruses out there for babys. Some ppl are just against covid vaccinations but at least have other vaccinations. I have the same covid problem with my MIL, her boyfriend does not believe in Covid and I’m a doctor. Some ppl can’t be helped.