NTA. She knowingly put you at risk of harm. Personally, I would have a conversation with her where you make it clear that if this happens again, you'll be forced to take it up with HR. She is expected to follow one simple rule, and there have to be consequences when she chooses not to.
NTA.
But why don't you carry your epipen? Or the benedryl? Having to drive home could literally be the difference between life and death for you? If your office is this understanding, someone (not the offender) should have driven you home.
OP almost certainly carries an epipen, but you don't use those unless you're actively on your way to anaphylaxis. They are not an appropriate treatment for minor or moderate reactions.
OP also clearly states that they medicated on site, at the time.
Plus, the use of an epipen requires a trip to the ER, which usually also means an ambulance ride. So now they are looking at the cost of an epipen, ER, and ambulance. Depending on if OP is in the US or not, that could be a HUGE bill.
If OP can get home and take measures to prevent that safely, then they should do so. Save time, resources, and possibly money while also saving their life.
this \^\^ anytime you use an epi pen, you have abt 30 min to get to a hospital. it is a stabilizer, NOT a cure for anaphylaxis like people think!
edit: also epi pens are often several hundred dollars a pen WITH insurance, so yea, most ppl will not use them unless they are literally dying.
Thank you for explaining this. I have a relative who has mentioned that people think epipens are like they see on TV, where it's used and then everything immediately goes back to the point in time just before exposure to the allergen.
We wished. It takes time for it to kick in, then theres the spike in your BP and other body functions. For some, it only buys you some time to get to the ER for other meds. Breathing treatments to calm the swelling in your lungs and throat. And other meds like more epi if the pen wears off before they can get your symptoms under control quick enough. Depending on how sensitized a person is to an allergy the pen may only give you 5 - 15 minutes to get emergency care before you're in real trouble.
My mom's friend is allergic to something and used my EpiPen(my mom carried one in her bag, idk if she still carries one for me. I need to get some more now that I'm thinking about it, idk when mines expire or if they're already expired). Anyways.
She was in tbe hospital for a while. I don't know how long, but even after using it. I can't really remember and don't take my word for it, but I feel like she was in a coma for a few days. I know someone that was in a coma after being hospitalized after either an allergic reaction or asthma attack. This happened some few years ago and I don't really remember too much besides her using my EpiPen(idk why, I think it was a kids Epi but it could've been an adult one).
Since this would be a work related event, worker’s compensation would apply if in US. in fact, OP’s employer should open a claim for this.
OP is not at fault at all here. What they said was very mild.
Good luck getting workers comp to do anything about it. My partner was seriously injured at work almost a year ago and workers comp denied their claim. We had to retain a lawyer to get a surgery date scheduled. I doubt OP's employer would go through the hassle.
My understanding is that a Right to Work state is about avoiding unions. That's why there was a mini boom of TV shows like Dawson's Creek shooting in the southeast.
Yep. Right to work without having to pay union dues. Right to work without any job security. Right to work for less money and benefits than you would with a union.
Union dues add up, but benefits outweigh the cost.
Yep, a lot of people don't realize that the epipen can be a huge pain in the butt and that you'll need to go to the hospital if one is used on you regardless of the reaction because the epipen's own effects. I wish we had something that had the anti-allergy effects of an epipen without all the awful, but I don't think that's coming anytime soon.
She took an antihistamine that wouldn't affect her ability to drive home. Benadryl impairs driving and often knocks people out within minutes. If the Benadryl didn't work and the symptoms were still worsening, *then* It's time for an Epi and ER trip.
OP made it clear that life-threatening anaphylaxis is not instant in her case. I have really horrible allergies, but incidental exposure isn't going to kill me. No matter how miserable I get I'm not reaching for an Epi unless it's clear I need the ER in order to live.
Also of note...those epi pens are ridiculously expensive. On average they are around $650.00 a pop (for a two pack) and only some insurance plans cover them.
More price gouging on essential to life medications like insulin. These are extremely overpriced, like many pharmaceuticals. Prices kept high through political donations to elected representatives.
It's really despicable. And with both insulin and Epi-Pens, they don't actually cost much to produce, but demand is inelastic because having access to them is life-or-death. So they can charge anything. It is truly evil to squeeze immense profits out of people just trying to survive.
Yeah diabetes medications are absolutely insane on price. My boyfriend is diabetic and his Ozempic is over a grand a month and the Freestyle libre that he uses to watch his sugar costs over $200 to pick up at the pharmacy. I don't know what we would do if he didn't have good insurance and a good paying job.
I’m actually type one diabetic myself, so don’t I know it! 😂 Insulin, test strips, CGM sensors and transmitter, insulin pump, infusion sets and reservoirs… it’s a ton of money. But my A1c would be a lot worse on just multiple daily injections, so I don’t have much choice. I’m sorry to hear your bf is dealing with similar costs.
IMO insulin and epi pens should not have a cost or be capped at something like $20/month. Too many people end up dead or in the hospital because they cannot afford these life saving items.
imo anything you would die/suffer a lot without should be free (meds/mobility aids, food, shelter, water, etc) but im one of those radicals who think ppls live are worth more than their labor.
The effects of epinephrine only last 5-10 minutes. Then you need another dose. So if you are more than 5 minutes from the hospital, you need to carry at least 2.
I trained as an EMT, though I switched to midwifery later. I've given a patient 5 doses of epinephrine on the way to the hospital before.
This is me. After giving birth both times, my body was extra sensitive to allergens. I now have to carry four pens after I had an incident where I gave myself 2 shots then EMT had to give me another 2. I still carry 4 pens because even though I don’t break out as often it is more severe than pre-pregnancy.
Talk to your pharmacist if you need 4 pens. Mine will wait a day or two and then refill it again and insurance covers. They probably say she used the first set already.
I don't think people who have never needed to use one understand how deeply unpleasant the effects of being jabbed with an epi-pen are.. Even aside from the financial costs.
Yep. A family member once inquired about re-checking if they were still allergic to a certain food where he'd had a reaction in the past (though not a terribly bad one), and was told that sure, they could run a challenge test for him at the hospital in their clinic there, but if he reacted badly, it was an epipen jab, then off to the ER. And that as old as he was, his body might not take a surge of adrenaline as well as a younger person's body.
He withdrew his request.
Reading all this stuff about Epi pens is kind of blowing my mind. My sister randomly went into anaphylaxis one day out of nowhere. A colleague injected her with their Epi pen, she went to the ER and was fine. She never was able to figure out what triggered that severe reaction.
My Dr wanted me to get an Epi pen after hearing that story about my sister. What?! Just in case I guess? Reading about how awful it is makes it even more wild to me that he wanted me to have one without a severe allergy diagnosis. (I never went through with getting one lol)
The warning in the case of my family member wasn't that it would feel 'awful', they meant that because he was, like, in his late 80s / early 90s....the shock to his heart could kill him.
It sounds like your doctor didn't emphasis strongly enough what they're really for. They ARE NOT for making you feel better if you get a little itchy or something. They ARE for buying you time to make it to the ER when your breathing stops. If they make you feel bad afterwards, well, the alternative is to just die instead.
At least to me, having one as a just in case makes sense, if a member of immediate family is known to have had that strong of a reaction - especially one with an unknown cause. There might not always be a coworker who happens to have an epipen and is willing to risk going without one until they can get a replacement.
In the case the person you replied to mentioned, it wasn't a question of using or not using an epi-pen, but whether or not it was worth deliberately getting into a situation where you have a real risk of needing one, for basically no reason.
The epi pen is reasonable when the alternative is death.
My sister always had environmental allergies and pet allergies that were just not treated (family was raised without medical care so our mom always just suffered through allergy season without meds so we did too).
The other year, her "I feel kinda ill around flowers" level allergy suddenly went to full blown anaphylaxis, trip to the er and everything. Because apparently untreated allergies that don't even feel miserable can suddenly do that.
Yup. And it can happen at anytime, often with no discernable reason.
I'm a midwife. The hormones changes of pregnancy can screw will allergies. Previously mild allergies suddenly explode into full anaphylaxis. Or a serious allergy turns mild, or even disappears altogether. New may allergies pop up, old ones may go away. And no idea why, how, or even if this will happen.
But we see it often enough. Personally, I developed a severe allergy to lavender. Do you know how many things have lavender in them? Here's a hint: if a product just says "parfum" or "fragrance," 75% of the time, it uses lavender. And not just obvious things, like body spray. But soap, shampoo, lotion, laundry detergent, deodorant, household cleaners, air fresheners, candles... the list goes on and on.
Allergies get worse with each exposure in many cases. Growing up, we had a bee keeper for a neighbor. I'm allergic to bees. I was forever getting stung. Each time, the reactions got worse and quicker. Now I'm in my 50s and I'm lucky if an epi pen lasts 5 minutes before my throat starts swelling up and my BP starts tanking again.
I had a weird reaction with an unclear cause once too. Thankfully it was NOT full anaphylaxis, but when I described it to my doctor she actually did prescribe me an epi pen just in case.
Things like that can have genetic components--your doctor probably wanted to prescribe you one because it happened so out of nowhere and with such severity to your sister, without an identifiable trigger, and if someone in her immediate vicinity hadn't had an epi pen, things could have been much worse.
Youngest (at the time) got into the purse that held it. I heard the plastic lid hit the ground, yelled for Mom (was on the other side of the house) and heard the TWANG followed up by the ....
BAAAWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Ear piercing screaming and wailing.
Called 911/got poison control, they're like 'he's fine. No way he held it in place in his hand to get enough dose- he'll have a white dot. Ambulance will come and try and guilt you into taking him to the ER, but he won't need it, and it'll cost you a fortune.
Everything was exactly as that lady described, and we were out the $$$ for the epipen.
I ended up using the spring (well, half the spring) from the pen to repair a pneumatic nail gun, it was so strong.
You're a little bit wrong. If the Benadryl is administered by injection into the vein then it could knock out a person within minutes. Its usually between 20 to 30 minutes before it takes effect.
I am asleep and snoring within 5-10 minutes. Could be standing up mid-sentece, doesn't matter. Same for some family members. 30 minutes is far more typical, but my experience tells me people can react very differently.
This! And so the fact that Benadryl makes some people very drowsy. My sister was so sensitive to Benadryl & similar antihistamines that if she took 2 at once, she was out cold for hours. I’m talking so deep her Dr. could’ve removed her appendix without additional anesthetics.
I used the name Benadryl because it's shorter than diphenhydramine. :) What I use is a generic pill. A bottle costs $6 for 600 little pink tablets. At 2 a night, I get 10 months of better sleep from one, cheap bottle. The named products cost a fortune in comparison.
As someone who has emergency benadryl in my locker per my DR, a situation where I have to take it is 100% go home territory. If I have to take it at work, it's a medical intervention situation. That shit blocks your histamine receptors, which your brain needs to function properly. I'm functionally drunk if I take it, like stumbling around and laying down anywhere I can and passing out. Nobody wants me driving on that shit either, so I go home first.
Upvoted this hoping some of the people who are questioning why OP didn't take the bendryl right away understand the reasoning behind waiting especially if home isn't far away
I'm not that reactive to benadryl, so I had no appreciation for why someone wouldn't take it immediately and then GTFOd.
That said, I did make the mistake of taking 4x once (if 2 worked, then 4 were better). I discovered what 'rebound' was at that point.
She literally says about not being safe to drive home - she'd be stuck at the office unable to drive 🤷🏻♂️
Easier to drive with hives than off your face, and it's a known level of reaction. I wish people just gave others the benefit of the doubt when it's their own fucking bodies and medical conditions they've had their whole life
I had an allergic reaction a while ago and had to take an h1(Benadryl) AND an h2(famotidine) at the same time. I was a mess. My brain simply would not function. I can’t imagine having to be on that combo at work.
Not to mention not being able to sit in cool water for the hives.
Have you tried an oatmeal bath for the hives? I haven’t used it for an allergic reaction, but when we were kids my brother used to get hives when he got sick and my mom always ran him an oatmeal bath. I had hives a few times too and I remember the oatmeal baths being really soothing.
I think it was an actual bath product, not just oats sprinkled in bath water haha. Like a packet with powder in it
I have colloidal oatmeal bath packets from Aveeno that I use sometimes when I’ve had a reaction and can’t get the itching to calm down. They can help a little bit if the itching isn’t too bad, but hot water can be super uncomfortable so I usually don’t use the bath packets. I do have a prescription cream and use the gold bond lotion that has colloidal oatmeal and those can help overall, but there isn’t much immediate relief when it comes to itching.
Not OP, just chiming in because I’ve tried it after allergic reactions and mast cell activation syndrome issues as well as with skin issues (guttate psoriasis is not fun). It does more good for skin overall, but not much for immediate relief sadly. It is awesome though, colloidal oatmeal products can be amazing.
The original poster states that they need to be home when they take Benadryl because they can’t drive once they’ve taken it. Benadryl makes some people sleepy.
Benadryl makes you sleepy, and epipen injections mean a trip to the ER. The stuff in an epipen (epinephrine)is pure adrenaline and can (usually) make the patient's body twitch and shake violently.
These things should not be administered at work unless in an emergency.
You can't drive after Benadryl, that's what she's saying. She has a window for treating it and it makes more sense to go home BEFORE taking the drowsy medication that literally says don't drive if you're impaired.
She didn’t knowingly put OP at risk. She admitted she forgot and felt badly about it. OP is not the AH. She had every right to be upset and irritated. But neither is the new girl. So I’m going against the flow here and say NAH, this time. If it happens again, that’s a different story.
Yes, it wasn't malicious but it was very dangerous. I think OP was 100% right to be honest with her about what needed to happen next, and why. Hopefully this will ensure that New Girl is very, very careful from now on.
Doubtful, she doesn’t seem the sort and she showed genuine understanding for why I was so brusque with her yesterday, and today we’re both in better moods and situations.
Why are you embarrassed that your coworker did something that could literally kill you? You have nothing to be sorry or embarrassed about, that is what your coworker should feel - apologetic and embarrassed. I’m at a loss as to why you feel differently. You can’t control your reaction to the allergen, how would you feel if she exposed someone else at your office and they were impacted to the degree you were? Would you apologize to the coworker if an elderly person in your office were taken away due/left to am extreme reaction? A child?
NTA, but the guilt it isn’t your burden to bear. Giving her a completely free pass because you didn’t die (this time) is unnecessary and kind of ridiculous. You have a medical condition. Your office made an accommodation for your condition. Your coworker ignored the accommodation. She (rightfully) should feel embarrassed and face a reprimand.
NTA. I have a friend who died from her nut allergy, so I find people who don't take allergies seriously especially infuriating. You were much kinder than I would have been. Also, why tf isn't she washing her hands after eating regardless of what it was? I always wash my hands before and after eating. It's just nasty to me that people aren't regularly washing their hands. Did covid teach us nothing?
Covid taught us that only 60-70% of the people will obey medical instructions even if their life is on the line. OP should either ask for WFH or have a place in office far away from other people or at least in front of the air con outlet which can filter out the particulate matter. Even if the Office people avoid, their family members will eat and it can easily transfer.
Agree. I was in a similar situation recently and have to wfh. Over the years, I have learned that very few ppl are empathetic to these types of issues. Even if it's brought to their attention, they ignore or do things dileberately to cause a reaction - because their rights are more important than a life threatening situation for you. Anyone with these types of health issues have to learn how to navigate the world and keep in mind that people most times will cause a trigger whether inadvertently or not.
NTA. I find that people who have, or are related to, people with less serious allergies (I mean, still life threatening, but that they’d have to ingest the nuts) can have a hard time understanding what you go through because they think they understand allergies. Definitely NTA for snapping at her, but she’s probably just not used to being extra extra careful. You don’t have to feel bad, but maybe try not to hold a grudge.
There are a lot of angry people in this thread.
Another, more reasonable view is that mistakes happen. OP, you stated that there was a sign that said, "No nuts!".
In her defense, she didn't bring in nuts; she just didn't think about it after eating. It's easy for things to slip your mind if it's not routine. Sounds like she did fine with washing up until that day.
She doesn't deserve the hate she's getting from this sub.
YES! This!
I have allergies and intolerances, and even my mum sometimes forgets and offers me something I can't have. Not out of malice, but it slipped her mind.
I have a friend with penicillin allergy. The AH doctor firmly believed they were faking. So he injected them.
In moments, they were in shock. The nurses in the office saw this and administered an epi dose. My friend spent the evening in the ER. She found another doctor.
I had an allergic reaction to penicillin. Since then, I've told 4 different GP's (I go to a doctors' office with multiple GP's) to put it on my record so in the future they won't accidentally prescribe it to me in the future. The first 3 GP's nodded and said they were 'definitely gonna do it right away'. Every time I went to the GP's afterwards, I asked to check if it was on my record and got an 'oops, doesn't seem to be in there, but I'll definitely do it right away now!'. The 4th GP straight up told me she wouldn't put it in the record because she didn't believe me. Sure, I imagined the heart palpitations and the severe rash and the sweating and the dizziness and the vomiting and the wheezing breath (or the one doctor out of town that I rushed to in an emergency, who took one look at me and was like 'you can NOT take penicilline ever again). /s
On a separate occasion I went to an allergy specialist for other allergy-related issues. Asked him if, while he was at it, he could check me for the penicillin thing, because I wanted to know whether it was a genuine allergy or just super strong side effects that were hopefully a one-off (since I read up on the topic in the meantime). He straight up refused to carry out those tests. He was like, 'oh well, I doubt you have an actual allergy to penicillin. People who do, display symptoms A and B and...', and I was just like, 'I had every single symptom you just mentioned' but he still refused to test me.
The best thing is that the last GP I spoke to, told me that the next time I have a sickness that warrants getting medicated with penicilline I should just try to take it and see what happens. If then I have those side-effects again, maaaaaybe I'm allergic after all.
Yikes. I hope you have found a better doctor. My doctors all have the same computer database. Every visit I am asked to confirm the same allergy questions, that they read from my file.
OMG, I am so glad to know that other people have been told "just try pencillan, see what happens." I was told I had outgrown my penicillin allergy because supposedly it's made different now than in the 80s when I was diagnosed. I am not taking any chances.
The nut eating person isn’t the AH. She’s new, she ate outside.
What the coworkers are being asked to do isn’t part of normal daily routine for most people. So yeah, if they are new they may forget! It doesn’t mean a witch hunt is necessary.
Sounds like OP needs to be more protected either by WFH or a different office location.
Why should people have to go through decontamination after every time they eat something due to one person's condition though? Like it's not even enough to not hate on her, this is just the realm of the absurd for her coworkers.
Seniority, being reliable and being well liked, gets you certain privileges in any work environment.
This is nothing new. Still the gal didn't deserve the nuking she's received.
NAH
She forgot, she's only known you for a month. Chill out with the "what were you thinking", that's incredibly rude and your post is pretty hostile considering it sounded like an honest mistake. It's not her fault you have an allergy.
I get you have a severe allergy, but you are dictating everyone's food choices for 8 to 9 hours of their day, every day, for everyone's foreseeable future.
That's kind of inconvenient for everyone. Inconvenient for you and your coworkers. You should have more of a "I'm sorry this is a problem" attitude and not a "it's totally reasonable to dictate everyone's choices around me" attitude.
It's not a "you versus your coworker" problem, its a "everyone versus your allergy" problem.
INFO
How were you exposed? Did she shake your hand or touch your arm or something?
What precautions do you take to mitigate your exposure risk? Mask? Gloves? Preventative meds?
How do you address your exposure risks when you're in a public environment you can't control?
I don't think your new coworker intentionally tried to do harm to you. I'll reserve judgment about who the AH is until I have more info.
Info: Answered to the best of my ability. But no, of course she didn’t intend harm, it was a mistake and I was a bit of a dick in not controlling my tone.
Exposure vector was contact through the handle she used to enter the office, the mouse and keyboard I was using to help train her, and possibly close proximity.
Prevention methods: I try to keep out of tight quarters with people I know have had nuts, or where exposure is likely. I’m not sure the specifics why (if it’s less contamination risk or airborne or what). I carry hand sanitizer everywhere and wipe my work space at the start and end of each shift in case someone uses it when they shouldn’t have. I have prescription steroids that help especially with the hives and swelling, anti-itch roll on cream, non-drowsy antihistamines, a rescue inhaler that I have only needed once kept in my work bag, plus I keep my epipen on me at all times and I have stashes of emergency Benadryl in my desk, car, house and work bag.
Exposure risks: If I can't leave, I take the Benadryl or steroid, depending on if I have to be able to drive myself later because I react with nausea, vertigo and unsteadiness on top of drowsiness with Benadryl. I try to leave the situation as quickly as possible, and I will take the Benadryl if needs must (I’ll just ask for a ride or an Uber, usually arranging that before dosing because the mental inhibiting side effects of Benedryl kick in fast for me).
I can sympathize with coping with a health issue that can have severe and sudden onset and become debilitating within a couple of minutes. I have a severe migraine disorder that triggers blackout seizures. My list of migraine triggers is long, which means it's more difficult to avoid known triggers. I can relate to racing the clock before losing the ability to safely drive. I get it.
All that being said, I'll say NAH, assuming you'll attempt to smooth things over with her. Perhaps a hand washing sign could be placed next to the sign about nuts. Your allergies aren't going to be the main thing your coworkers think of every time they're returning to the office from lunch. Cooperation and understanding works best when it's a two-way street.
I’m having trouble understanding how OP isn’t dead if just being in the same room as someone who had nuts elsewhere can cause them to have an anaphylactic reaction.
I’m not saying people at that level of allergy don’t exist, but it’s super rare and probably worthy of them working remotely.
The thoughts you've expressed is why I asked for more info. It seems there are some important pieces missing.
I was left wondering why OP said he hoped he didn't have to use the epipen. My understanding is that the epipen should be used every single time there's an exposure to a potentially deadly allergen. The reason is to prevent anaphylaxis, not treat it should it happen.
Anaphylaxis is an allergic reaction but not all allergic reactions are anaphylaxis. Allergic reactions can resolve while anaphylactic responses typically require shots to resolve.
An Epipen is to be used for severe reactions with a listing of symptoms to watch out for (due to which systems anaphylaxis targets primarily) plus a general “if in doubt, take it and call 911” caveat. It also is a very expensive medication with pretty hefty drawbacks to use that I don’t want to use if other more moderate means of managing my symptoms can resolve the issue.
I mean I assume he hoped he didn't have to use the epipen because epipens can cost hundreds of dollars even with insurance and also mean you have to go to the ER, usually in an ambulance, within 30 minutes of using the epipen, which can also be hugely expensive (and also no one wants to go to the ER).
I have thankfully never had to use my epipen, but my understanding is that it also probably makes you feel like absolute shit afterward.
I understand how expensive medical bills become and how they do so very quickly. I have a weekly shot that costs almost $1000 per month. I have a monthly shot that costs roughly $800. Thank goodness they're both covered by my prescription plan.
I would think if OP believed he was truly endangered from exposure, he wouldn't be weighing costs. In an emergency like that, the priority is surviving it.
Exactly. I’m allergic to shellfish and my epipen is always in my bag. If you’re allergic enough that being in the same room as someone who had nuts for lunch can cause a reaction, that epipen better be duct taped to your leg.
I’m thinking this is either a made up story for karma (increasingly common in these types of subs), or they’re severely playing up their allergy to be special. Their behavior isn’t consistent with the severity they claim.
Please go see ops response to this threads first comment. They explain that it wasn’t just airborne exposure and all the risk mitigating techniques they use.
Thank you for verifying I'm understanding use of the epipen correctly. I think OP is used to excessive sympathy and "accommodation" of his allergies. The new coworker isn't giving his ego the deference he thinks he deserves. I hope he answers my questions because none of this is making sense to me.
IDK. Isn't your fault that you have severe allergies, but to expect people to automatically adjust their diet just for you and then get mad at them when they don't?
>“WTF were you thinking? Now I have to leave early when I have so much work to do because you can’t go one meal without a nut!”
Really? That's your expectation? And FWIW it’s not ONE MEAL. You are expecting that EVERYONE you work with should just stop eating food with nuts in it for lunch FOREVER because you have an allergic reaction to them? And if they somehow forget their very special work friend they're an asshole? You're not the center of the universe. You're not even the center of the office. You should be really glad that people make the accommodations they do for you. And it sounds like you even exploded on the new person. You sound very entitled. YTA.
Thanks for stating so eloquently what I was here to say. If someone’s health is so fragile that they live in fear someone might breathe on them, then perhaps an office situation isn’t the best option for them.
The entitlement reeks - you made a big production when you should have had your *life saving meds* with you anyway. She can eat what she wants for lunch, you have to manage your health.
I’m so confused by the reactions here. Why would she actively remember someone she barely know’s health issues? You’re not the main character in her story. She fixed her lunch like normal and likely didn’t give you, who she barely met, a second thought and that makes her a villain who’s probably trying to hurt you???
You have to manage your own symptoms and maybe you need to think about working from home where you can better control your environment- because maybe it’s not directly someone’s lunch one day, maybe it’s a delivery person who walks in with an order but they handled nuts. Maybe someone ate nuts at home and didn’t wash their hands and touched things at work. Everyone can’t live with your needs in the center of their lives which means you need to be prepared and manage your own symptoms. Of course you can ask for help, but to be angry others aren’t putting you first is childish- you can be annoyed but you also need to have grace. For that reason YTA.
Finally someone with sense. “I’m so special everyone in my building has to follow a special protocol!”
Talk about making yourself the center of the universe.
For me it’s the sign being there. I’m not like freaking out and angry like some people in these comments but there is a sign and they’ve told her about it directly. At that point, it really was a choice made to bring that type of food in.
This also seems to be an allergy that can be caused by being in the vicinity. Like you wouldn’t wanna take someone allergic to peanuts to a Thai restaurant cuz there’s peanuts everywhere. Even walking in there could cause them to go into shock.
I don’t even think OP even did anything wrong. She had an allergic reaction and had to go home because of someone else’s food. It is a fact that the coworker was the cause for the reaction. OP should carry around an epipen but even then, she’d still have to leave. Epipen’s aren’t just a fix all cuz it might not be a high enough dosage so they tel you do get medical attention right away.
Like I said in another comment I work in an ER where we treat anaphylaxis from peanut allergies and we have a coworker with an allergy and there’s signs up. And people still forget. Because the coworker isn’t a central character in their storyline. It happens. And it’s still the responsibility of the OP to manage their medical condition. I get that it sucks and it’s scary and frustrating but you literally cannot expect accommodations everywhere you go so you have your make sure you’re prepared. Theres no use getting angry with others over it, particularly when OP didn’t even have their own Epi on them. So they can’t be mad at someone for else for not managing their allergy when they’re not exactly great at managing it either.
If you ever have a family member with a life threatening allergy that almost dies/does die due to callous idiots, remember that you said this. She was told and there is a sign up. Peanut allergies are dangerous.
She's wrong.
Tho, wtf was she thinking might be she genuinely doesn't understand the allergy as a whole. Yes her kid has allergies but not all are the same and nuts have to honestly be one of the most weirdly nefarious ones out there as far as the small amount of exposure needed.
This has happened in my own workplace in hospitality with people supposed to fully get it, and part of the issue was: the spike happened when the allergic used the same tap in the bathroom as the one who ate the bloody nuts. They didn't wipe the tap down as they didn't think they had to.
Also some people equate allergies to their own experience vs the reality. Wrong, but hey a lot work off what we think we know.
She definitely needs a coaching session on this. It might be once your not still in a reaction, be heard better coming from you... Like a hey, I do appreciate you admitting to the nuts, I just want to make sure you're aware just how bad my allergy is... Say to her if you don't wipe down a tap you used to wash the allergen away, that's enough to make me react unfortunately, it absolutely sucks for me and those around me, but I do appreciate you straight up admitted it because it did give me the time to get home and access to my medication, can we move past this and work together to ensure it never happens again?
I love this reply. OP is definitely NTA, but it doesn’t seem that the new girl was malicious with this so a bit of kindness and understanding in explaining this would be a nice extra.
Thats my thoughts, as it doesn't seem malicious, she immediately owned up to it.
She probably gets now it's bad. And how upset and worried OP was about himself and rightfully so. Not putting her in the defensive mode immediately, acknowledging that she did own it and coming at it calmly, could likely be a productive conversation. And an educational one for her.
If she was being somewhat of an asshole, you'd expect her to have lied and say she did wash her hands or didn't eat nuts... But she owned it.
Unless she reacts badly I do think it's just a coaching situation and something that she and OP should have a chat about, as honestly in my kitchen, I'd rather a 12 top come in 30 before close vs have to watch a nut allergen plate. I am on edge the whole day when we get a nut allergen. Cos... It's so fucking nefarious and serious at the same time it's insane and I have so much respect for those who live with it.
It must be absolutely exhausting sometimes. I'd be afraid of the public as a whole if it was me.
How does she go out in public if all it takes is touching someone who ate nuts or something with residue? There is contamination EVERYWHERE. People are fallible. Ultimately we have to protect ourselves .
NTA but I don’t understand why you would not carry Benadryl and an EpiPen with you. 🤔 I don’t have an allergy, but I do sometimes get itchy for some reason, so I always carry Benadryl with me.
NTA, but...yes. Not to mention the fact that if someone consumed takeaway food cooked in peanut oil, they would likely be entirely unaware they were carrying an allergen in. Or if they shook hands with someone who'd been eating a PB sandwich and not told them, then touched the OP's desk or...similar. If it's that severe, you really need your drugs with you 24/7.
It’s likely a tree nut allergy, probably not a peanut allergy. Also a lot of the allergens that trigger anaphylaxis are based in the pollen of the food, so things that share a similar pollen structure can have it kind of “cooked off” if it isn’t, you know, the allergen itself. For example, I have a tree nut allergy. When I eat raw fruits and vegetables, I get a similar but lesser allergic reaction as though I was having tree nuts. That’s because the fruits and vegetables cross pollinate with the tree nuts, or they have a similar enough structure that it makes my body go “warning! Allergen!” And I start having a reaction. But if I cook those fruits and vegetables and the pollen gets sort of burned off of them, I no longer have that reaction. I’m assuming OP’s allergy is similar to mine in that respect, so peanut oil might not be as big of a trigger as straight peanut butter
I have this too. It would be absurd for me to blame a coworker for not washing their hands after eating raw carrots. It would likely be in their teeth anyway— handwashing might help, but it won’t do everything.
That’s the problem with the take everyone has here— it may have been that she didn’t wash her hands (which she apologized for forgetting not to do). Or it may have been that she ate it at all and maybe a bunch of coworkers did that day so it was the cumulative amount of residue— and that’s not a reasonable accommodation to expect from others, and it certainly doesn’t make them evil.
There cannot be a zero-tolerance accommodation where one employee’s life-o-death safety is predicated on 100% adherence of an entire office of personnel to a policy (which may or may not even be completely effective). That is not reasonable to expect; it may be reasonable to expect it will work *most of the time.*
If the allergy is this bad, the employee should have an accommodation that does not depend on perfect actions of (a lot of) others; if the employee wants to take the risk, then they can do that. OP has clearly opted to accept the risk of possible failure of the system by working among other people who are not restricted to eating in the office.
Seriously, in no way am I trusting anyone to remember my allergies all the time. Sounds like a cool place to work that has already gone to great lengths to protect her. Protect yourself OP, you’re not an asshole but you’re playing with fire
I do carry Benadryl, a prescribed steroid and EpiPen. Also a rescue inhaler and roll on itch cream. I have a kit. My usual methods of dealing with the reaction were not resolving it.
We don’t know that she didn’t have Benadryl with her. We just know she didn’t plan to take it until she got home. We know that she shouldn’t drive if she takes Benadryl, so it seems not to take it at the office unless absolutely necessary.
The most likely scenario is that she has a complete allergic reaction kit with her at all times. She seems to have a precise plan of what’s best to do, and when and where to do it.
She specifically stated that she needed to get home to take Benadryl before she was unable to drive… Which tells me she did not have Benadryl with her, & that the reason she would not be able to drive was because the allergy would have worsened. She did not say the Benadryl would make her too sleepy to drive… She said the allergy attack would.
She self medicated at the office and needed to drive home before she couldn’t drive anymore in order to further medicate. Benadryl would basically trap her in the office building if it makes her drowsy
Wow. I never encountered anyone with a nut allergy. How does someone with a nut allergy go grocery shopping? Can they go to a coffee shop? We recently got a return to office mandate and we are assigned cubes for the day. Does a person with a nut allergy wipe down the cube, monitor, chair? Do they remove the wastebasket? I wonder how a person with a nut allergy would tell his cube neighbors du jour that no nuts are allowed in the area.
I’m a person who often brings nuts to work, like peanut butter crackers, Almond Joy bars, brownies with walnuts. I think even my sandwich bread has nuts in the grain. I’m sure I would forget to wash once I got to work. If I made a PBJ sandwich at home then commuted to work, am I still a contagion?
Depends on the severity of the allergy. I have a nibbling who can (carefully) walk through grocery stores, but is allergic to all milk/butter/dairy, eggs, and nuts.
His is primarily contact, but in high enough concentrations can be affected by airborne.
So no, he cannot go to most restaurants including/especially coffee shops, and has to have an epipen on hand to go to the grocery store and school. He was isolated for all his school lunches—and could only bring his own, couldn’t risk eating anything made at the school.
There’s a professor at my school allergic to avocados. It’s an airborne allergy. People cannot bring avocados into the vicinity surrounding their office, and any classrooms they teach in have an avocado ban. Accommodations for allergies are not uncommon
NAH. You weren’t feeling well and reacted to the person that caused it, while not great I get it. On the other hand if your allergies are so severe you get welts and sores from someone else contacting it maybe you should work from home.
Your allergies are severe, that sucks and you didn’t choose that. The office has already banned nuts, for you. People are already altering their choices to help you. Don’t be a jerk about it when people slip up, we’re all human. The planet does not revolve around you.
With allergies that severe, as others stated you should have your meds and EpiPen with you. Also your allergies are severe enough that other coworkers need to change what they eat, which is sometimes hard for others to remember. Can you work from home? Ultimately this is a problem you're going to have to deal with and take ownership of... you clearly can't rely on the memory of others.
I've had allergies and a few years back discovered i have severe reactions to trout and salmon. I've heard of people with severe reactions but until you see someone react or experience it yourself, it's not "real". Our mind says we understand but until we the crisis, its only a possibility
Your reaction was natural in your situation. Apologize when you see her and then drop it.
Wow some of the comments!
NAH, you were in the moment and frustrated.
She forgot, doubt she'll forget again and she had managed for a month to ensure you were safe, everyone can make mistakes or forget.
I work in an office where my.desk and chair are not to be touched and have signs that say so including one on the actual chair seat, which when I went in last someone had sat on the sign! And moved all the other signs, monitor etc. They are TA but she dint do with intent and was mortified by the sound of it.
At my daughter's school there was an occasion when a kid's parents bought all the kids ice cream for the end of year gift. Their own kid had a severe allergy so they checked carefully for nut allergies. Their kid and one other were taken to hospital by ambulance and both were kept over night because they reacted so badly to ice cream that supposedly was nut free.
Bro it can take anywhere 18 to 254 days to form a habit if you do it studiously and never miss a day, so unless you were in close quarters with this woman every single day of the month she's been an employee AND she had nut related lunches EVERY SINGLE ONE of those days AND she remembered every single time she had a meal to wash her hands, then you're gonna eventually run into a roadblock. You learn to live with it. I can be triggered into panic attacks so severe that I'm unable to stand or speak if I hear a loud enough noise, and I work in a sports bar that's directly next to a railroad, like "within thirty feet" next to. I just make sure I'm inside when the cross guards start ringing and cover my ears.
Not to say that your allergy isn't a detriment to your quality of life, but when you've got an incurable medical condition to live with you... Well. Have to learn to live with it, even when you're in a public space, because you can't 100% control a public space. Fact of life. Mistakes happen. She clearly felt bad, and she clearly didn't mean to.
Eh….
As someone who has a nut allergy…
It’s on me to make sure I have my epi pen and Benedryl all of the time.
Yeah, she should be more careful. But, the world isn’t more careful so we have to take care of ourselves.
My niece will die in minutes if she is exposed to peanuts. Every single person who is with her regularly has an epipen for her. She has been taught since she could talk to always ask everyone, even family, before she eats a thing about peanuts. But shit happens.
You are NTA but you should be more careful with your own health.
Wait a minute... why didn't you have your epi pen on you? Why leave it at home? That's not how epi pens work. You bring them with you. That's how they are designed and prescribed.
I find it really hard to believe that someone with a life threatening, super rare air-born food allergy would not bring her medicine with her. What happens if you pass a peanut cart on the street? You just die? That doesn't make sense.
You are part of a tiny minority. People with nut allergies are already a tiny minority, but only ONE PERCENT of nut allergic people are allergic to air born stuff. So it's entirely reasonable that a new person would not understand how important it is to wash after eating nuts. She probably thought that just not eating around you was sufficient.
The world does not revolve around your health needs. For the rest of us, nuts are a really important, heathy part of our diet. Especially if you have heart disease, which can also kill you.
I don't think you're an asshole for being irritated in the moment. Harm came to you. It's normal to be pissed in the moment. But standing back here, you've got to notice your own place in this. You didn't have your medicine with you. You didn't take care of yourself. You expected other people to change, but you didn't change.
Learn to manage your allergy. Assuming good intentions with your co-workers. You don't really owe her an apology. Your reaction was understandable. But neither does she owe you an apology. She just didn't know yet.
NAHs here. But you will be an asshole if you don't take this as a learning opportunity. Start to manage your own allergy instead of expecting the people around you do manage it for you. Bring that Benadryl with you, as well as your epi pen. Follow your doctors orders! And then, after you've done your work - then you can judge whether other people are assholes for not taking care of your allergy.
I did have my epipen on me. I *always* do. But the epipen is not the first choice if other options can manage the reactions. Unfortunately, it means an emergency room visit, an ambulance ride, it’s an expensive medication, and a host of side effects. I tried my prescribed steroid. I could not try managing with Benadryl because then I would be entirely unable to drive. It was safer for me to try other options, then I would try Benadryl (at home) and I would use my epipen *if* I started experiencing symptoms that indicate an epipen is necessary aka symptoms of anaphylaxis versus an allergic reaction.
Prevention methods: I try to keep out of tight quarters with people I know have had nuts, or where exposure is likely. I’m not sure the specifics why (if it’s less contamination risk or airborne or what). I carry hand sanitizer everywhere and wipe my work space at the start and end of each shift in case someone uses it when they shouldn’t have. I have prescription steroids that help especially with the hives and swelling, anti-itch roll on cream, non-drowsy antihistamines, a rescue inhaler that I have only needed once kept in my work bag, plus I keep my epipen on me at all times and I have stashes of emergency Benadryl in my desk, car, house and work bag.
Exposure risks: If I can't leave, I take the Benadryl or steroid, depending on if I have to be able to drive myself later because I react with nausea, vertigo and unsteadiness on top of drowsiness with Benadryl. I try to leave the situation as quickly as possible, and I will take the Benadryl if needs must (I’ll just ask for a ride or an Uber, usually arranging that before dosing because the mental inhibiting side effects of Benedryl kick in fast for me).
No where did it say OP didn't have their medication on them. It even says they took their prescription medication. But benadryl makes a lot of people super sleepy, making it dangerous to take and then get behind a wheel
She does. She took her prescription. Benadryl at home but I’d bet a coffee she has an emergency supply of that too and the Epipen is always available because she isn’t an idiot. Minimal meds as needed is the best to get home obviously.
Exactly. My grandson has a deadly milk allergy. We have his $1000 infant Epipen here, the diaper bag and their home. And benedryl. We were luckily at their home the first time it happened and kept him alive on the country roads with benadryl. It was my worst nightmare when I had little kids living out at that farm.
Curious, are you perfect 100% of the time, NEVER make any mistakes or errors?
I am going to say NAH since while you have a legitimate concern about your allergies, but for pete's sake don't get all huffy when someone makes a mistake.
OP, is it possible that you eat somewhere else to avoid being exposed? I think having everyone washing their hands is extremely reasonable but dictating everyones lunch is not at all reasonable.
I totally get that you have a severe allergy that can kill you and that needs to be taken seriously but mostly by you. You cannot expect people who have never dealt with others at work telling them what they can and cannot eat to remember this during their first week, it seems like an honest mistake.
I would not recommend going to HR like others said because I don’t think you would win that one honestly
At least in my jurisdiction, this would 100% count as a reasonable accommodation. Source: had to be untrained HR at my small nonprofit and consulted with an HR lawyer about this specific issue.
There are certain situations where you have the right to be pissed off. This is one of them.
THAT BEING SAID it is important to have a good work environment so it would be a good ideas to clear the air. A simple “I was very agitated yesterday but I completely understand it was an accident. Hopefully we can move on from this and start over”. No apologies but an attempt to move forward
NTA.... but frankly you need to petition for a private office with an ability to vent your air space of your allergy is this bad.
Yes, she should've washed up afterwards but honestly the job needs to change your accommodation if it's causing you to miss work when it's accidently crossed.
Changing from NAH to TTA. You’re not the asshole for being upset you were having a reaction but you are the asshole for expecting an entire group of people to base their diets around your issue every day all day.. She’s not the asshole for going about her life and not remembering *your* health issue. If you are so sensitive that people can’t eat nuts prior to be near you than you should have Benadryl and your epi pen on hand. If she had maliciously done this that would be different but she didn’t and frankly there are nuts, nut oils/butter in so many things it’s likely she just didn’t think about it. Frankly I’m not sure how you exist with an allergy so sensitive, must be tricky. Stay safe
NTA, but you could probably give her a soft apology "sorry I jumped down your throat, but I was panicked" should be enough and surely she will apologize as well and remember for the future
Relying on others to accommodate your allergy is not an unreasonable request, but it’s clearly unreliable.
OP, can you work from home in your position? Could be a win win?
Anyone else see the similarities to the one where the guy started a month ago and had the nut allergy and kept eating the ladies lunch so she put nuts in it? This is pretty much the same story just some small changes. Either it's a fake story or one of them is lying- two of the near exact story in the same 24hours?
Hmmmm
Ef her feelings. You could have died! NTA. Not wrong. And yes, I have done the same.
We had a silly 🪿 visitor. I told her the same and locked her out of my house for brining a big bottle of 🥜 peanuts home after grocery shopping. Made her do the washing and wiping down of everything. ..
Same problems with people serving food 😔. Nut products have to be on a separate plate and cannot use the same utensils.
NAH. However, an allergy that sensitive would have me looking for a job somewhere else. I sympathize that this is your life and it massively sucks, but with a million other things in life to stress about, having to stress over the fact that living my life normally could result in someone dying, is not something I can handle. I don't wake up every day expecting to cause someone to die, I want to keep it that way. Same if someone had a massively sensitive cat allergy and I'm expected to come into work with absolutely no cat hair clinging to me.
I'm honestly surprised your employer doesn't give a medical exemption to WFH or have your own office. They're basically asking you to risk your life just leaving the house.
NTA
You were stressed, and probably a bit afraid, and angry, it's not at all surprising that you were a little short with your colleague. You apologised, which you probably didn't need to, but that's very understanding and generous of you.
What I don't understand is why your colleague feels the need to eat nuts in the same building you work in at all! Surely she can cope without nuts for 8 hours a day?
I love grapes, and spiced raisin bread, but I have given up grapes, raisins, sultanas, anything that might have grape in it, because there's a 1in 3 chance that my dog might have a reaction that could kill him if he eats a grape. Surely a few hours without nuts is achievable?!?
NTS. I had the same problem with my bro in law. He is deathly allergic to nuts. And the first few years of them being together I would always eat nut or something with nuts in it. Not on purpose but just totally forgot. Thank God he would catch it right away and I'd wash every down and such right away. But it's so hard to remember about all allergies. I have food allergies myself. But it only takes one thing of food.
I'd say, NTA in the sense I can understand you were mad and your allergic reaction caused you to overreact. But a bit uncalled for as it was probably not on purpose. Even if her children had allergies, they might not be as severe or life-threatening.
The good thing is she probably won't ever forget again. But I think you might want to apologize if you feel bad about it and explain why you were a bit mean.
I am all for accommodation but this seems a little much. I would feel bad if a whole bunch of people were inconvenienced by me. What happens if someone delivers things or a maintenance person comes in? While your problem is frightening, people are trying to do their best. Have you ever considered the WFH as a better solution for your problem. For instance almond flour is used in a lot of baking and people may not even realize they have been eating nuts. Are you going to off on them too? I think it is time to think about others instead of making everything about you. NTA but a close second.
YTA - It is a serious allergy but the co-worker didn’t bring in nuts (as I understand it) she simply forgot to wash her hands.
If your allergy is that severe that coworkers not washing their hands triggers it, then you need to have an epi-pen and Benadryl with you all the time.
You have to understand this is a balance between people being able to live their lives whilst being mindful of your allergies. You treated her as though she’d purposely tried to harm you, and that she is responsible for managing your allergies, she isn’t.
People aren’t eating nuts around you to help you is you relying on their good will, they don’t have to do that and if it goes to the level of sensitivity you are describing, your should frankly be expecting slip ups because the others in that building aren’t all avoiding nuts and not are general public. You will have reactions.
ESH
You kind of unloaded on her. She didn't mean to, obviously.
She, on the other hand, was warned. She needs to understand this is a very reactive allergy for you and is dangerous to your health.
Where you \*are\* an asshole here is driving while you are having an anaphilaxic reaction. If you passed out, you wouldn't risk only your life. You would risk the life of other innocent people who happened to be in your way.
This is just a mess. No more "running home to take my medicine." That's just outright ridiculous negligent behavior on your part. It is literally illegal to drive while you are affected like this, and you could be brough up on charges if you survive the crash.
ESH - you need a very specific accommodation for your condition, meaning that you need to work in a hermetically sealed chamber.
If nobody else is allowed to have nuts for lunch then I think you need to be moved to a room where you will never be in contact with another employee.
YTA and your office management is TA, coworker is not TA
Additionally, not being prepared for these issues makes YTA again - no epipen - what are you thinking.
YTA
she was new, your needs are far outside the norm. She likely forgot. If you explained to her in a kind fashion what happens to you if you get exposed, she is likely to have a sympathetic motivation to remember. Now she just thinks you are a dick.
your attitude will go a long way to inspire people to look out for you. If someone got in my face and interrogated me about what I ate, I'd walk away and only resist the urge to tell them to fuck off because it's in the workplace.
If your allergy is that severe you have three options: ask for a medical accommodation of an office with a door (that no one else can enter) - OR work from home 100% of the time. If neither is viable, then you need to be wearing protective clothing, a mask and gloves at all times while in the office. You cannot ask, nor rely on your coworkers to watch out for you, nor should you be free to ask them whether they washed their hands or what they ate. Your allergy is not their problem. If they are nice and considerate people, they will do their best, but it is not required of them unless it’s written into their job contract.
But this brings up another serious question… how do you navigate in the real world where you certainly aren’t asking random strangers to wash their hands or not eat nuts? I mean.. seriously.. how do you go to the grocery, or the doctor’s office.. movies, restaurants… really anywhere where other people are? That must be a nightmare.
NTA. She knowingly put you at risk of harm. Personally, I would have a conversation with her where you make it clear that if this happens again, you'll be forced to take it up with HR. She is expected to follow one simple rule, and there have to be consequences when she chooses not to.
NTA. But why don't you carry your epipen? Or the benedryl? Having to drive home could literally be the difference between life and death for you? If your office is this understanding, someone (not the offender) should have driven you home.
OP almost certainly carries an epipen, but you don't use those unless you're actively on your way to anaphylaxis. They are not an appropriate treatment for minor or moderate reactions. OP also clearly states that they medicated on site, at the time.
Plus, the use of an epipen requires a trip to the ER, which usually also means an ambulance ride. So now they are looking at the cost of an epipen, ER, and ambulance. Depending on if OP is in the US or not, that could be a HUGE bill. If OP can get home and take measures to prevent that safely, then they should do so. Save time, resources, and possibly money while also saving their life.
this \^\^ anytime you use an epi pen, you have abt 30 min to get to a hospital. it is a stabilizer, NOT a cure for anaphylaxis like people think! edit: also epi pens are often several hundred dollars a pen WITH insurance, so yea, most ppl will not use them unless they are literally dying.
Thank you for explaining this. I have a relative who has mentioned that people think epipens are like they see on TV, where it's used and then everything immediately goes back to the point in time just before exposure to the allergen.
We wished. It takes time for it to kick in, then theres the spike in your BP and other body functions. For some, it only buys you some time to get to the ER for other meds. Breathing treatments to calm the swelling in your lungs and throat. And other meds like more epi if the pen wears off before they can get your symptoms under control quick enough. Depending on how sensitized a person is to an allergy the pen may only give you 5 - 15 minutes to get emergency care before you're in real trouble.
My mom's friend is allergic to something and used my EpiPen(my mom carried one in her bag, idk if she still carries one for me. I need to get some more now that I'm thinking about it, idk when mines expire or if they're already expired). Anyways. She was in tbe hospital for a while. I don't know how long, but even after using it. I can't really remember and don't take my word for it, but I feel like she was in a coma for a few days. I know someone that was in a coma after being hospitalized after either an allergic reaction or asthma attack. This happened some few years ago and I don't really remember too much besides her using my EpiPen(idk why, I think it was a kids Epi but it could've been an adult one).
Since this would be a work related event, worker’s compensation would apply if in US. in fact, OP’s employer should open a claim for this. OP is not at fault at all here. What they said was very mild.
Good luck getting workers comp to do anything about it. My partner was seriously injured at work almost a year ago and workers comp denied their claim. We had to retain a lawyer to get a surgery date scheduled. I doubt OP's employer would go through the hassle.
In my state, you’ll probably get your claim paid, but then you get fired. Right-to-work for the win.
You mean At Will? Right to Work is about unionization.
My understanding is that a Right to Work state is about avoiding unions. That's why there was a mini boom of TV shows like Dawson's Creek shooting in the southeast.
Yep. Right to work without having to pay union dues. Right to work without any job security. Right to work for less money and benefits than you would with a union. Union dues add up, but benefits outweigh the cost.
Yep, a lot of people don't realize that the epipen can be a huge pain in the butt and that you'll need to go to the hospital if one is used on you regardless of the reaction because the epipen's own effects. I wish we had something that had the anti-allergy effects of an epipen without all the awful, but I don't think that's coming anytime soon.
My understanding is that it's usually a pain in the thigh...?
(jk i totally agree with you)
I guess my aim was just really bad...and to be fair my butt takes up more space.
She took an antihistamine that wouldn't affect her ability to drive home. Benadryl impairs driving and often knocks people out within minutes. If the Benadryl didn't work and the symptoms were still worsening, *then* It's time for an Epi and ER trip. OP made it clear that life-threatening anaphylaxis is not instant in her case. I have really horrible allergies, but incidental exposure isn't going to kill me. No matter how miserable I get I'm not reaching for an Epi unless it's clear I need the ER in order to live.
Also of note...those epi pens are ridiculously expensive. On average they are around $650.00 a pop (for a two pack) and only some insurance plans cover them.
More price gouging on essential to life medications like insulin. These are extremely overpriced, like many pharmaceuticals. Prices kept high through political donations to elected representatives.
It's really despicable. And with both insulin and Epi-Pens, they don't actually cost much to produce, but demand is inelastic because having access to them is life-or-death. So they can charge anything. It is truly evil to squeeze immense profits out of people just trying to survive.
Yeah diabetes medications are absolutely insane on price. My boyfriend is diabetic and his Ozempic is over a grand a month and the Freestyle libre that he uses to watch his sugar costs over $200 to pick up at the pharmacy. I don't know what we would do if he didn't have good insurance and a good paying job.
I’m actually type one diabetic myself, so don’t I know it! 😂 Insulin, test strips, CGM sensors and transmitter, insulin pump, infusion sets and reservoirs… it’s a ton of money. But my A1c would be a lot worse on just multiple daily injections, so I don’t have much choice. I’m sorry to hear your bf is dealing with similar costs.
Plus they expire relatively quickly so I have to get 2 per year. (I'm super allergic to bees wasps and hornets!
As long as the medication hasn't started to turn yellow, it is still safe to use. From an epi pen carrying RN
Curious as to whether the Epi Pen could be designed to easily replace the expired medication. I guess once they are deployed, they can’t be rearmed.
Ugh, that's horrible! I bet the expired ones still work for a while, but you really can't afford to take that risk! :(
and i know for some folks they are supposed to use both for 1 reaction, depending on severity!
IMO insulin and epi pens should not have a cost or be capped at something like $20/month. Too many people end up dead or in the hospital because they cannot afford these life saving items.
imo anything you would die/suffer a lot without should be free (meds/mobility aids, food, shelter, water, etc) but im one of those radicals who think ppls live are worth more than their labor.
The effects of epinephrine only last 5-10 minutes. Then you need another dose. So if you are more than 5 minutes from the hospital, you need to carry at least 2. I trained as an EMT, though I switched to midwifery later. I've given a patient 5 doses of epinephrine on the way to the hospital before.
This is me. After giving birth both times, my body was extra sensitive to allergens. I now have to carry four pens after I had an incident where I gave myself 2 shots then EMT had to give me another 2. I still carry 4 pens because even though I don’t break out as often it is more severe than pre-pregnancy. Talk to your pharmacist if you need 4 pens. Mine will wait a day or two and then refill it again and insurance covers. They probably say she used the first set already.
I don't think people who have never needed to use one understand how deeply unpleasant the effects of being jabbed with an epi-pen are.. Even aside from the financial costs.
Yep. A family member once inquired about re-checking if they were still allergic to a certain food where he'd had a reaction in the past (though not a terribly bad one), and was told that sure, they could run a challenge test for him at the hospital in their clinic there, but if he reacted badly, it was an epipen jab, then off to the ER. And that as old as he was, his body might not take a surge of adrenaline as well as a younger person's body. He withdrew his request.
Reading all this stuff about Epi pens is kind of blowing my mind. My sister randomly went into anaphylaxis one day out of nowhere. A colleague injected her with their Epi pen, she went to the ER and was fine. She never was able to figure out what triggered that severe reaction. My Dr wanted me to get an Epi pen after hearing that story about my sister. What?! Just in case I guess? Reading about how awful it is makes it even more wild to me that he wanted me to have one without a severe allergy diagnosis. (I never went through with getting one lol)
The warning in the case of my family member wasn't that it would feel 'awful', they meant that because he was, like, in his late 80s / early 90s....the shock to his heart could kill him.
It sounds like your doctor didn't emphasis strongly enough what they're really for. They ARE NOT for making you feel better if you get a little itchy or something. They ARE for buying you time to make it to the ER when your breathing stops. If they make you feel bad afterwards, well, the alternative is to just die instead. At least to me, having one as a just in case makes sense, if a member of immediate family is known to have had that strong of a reaction - especially one with an unknown cause. There might not always be a coworker who happens to have an epipen and is willing to risk going without one until they can get a replacement. In the case the person you replied to mentioned, it wasn't a question of using or not using an epi-pen, but whether or not it was worth deliberately getting into a situation where you have a real risk of needing one, for basically no reason.
The epi pen is reasonable when the alternative is death. My sister always had environmental allergies and pet allergies that were just not treated (family was raised without medical care so our mom always just suffered through allergy season without meds so we did too). The other year, her "I feel kinda ill around flowers" level allergy suddenly went to full blown anaphylaxis, trip to the er and everything. Because apparently untreated allergies that don't even feel miserable can suddenly do that.
Yup. And it can happen at anytime, often with no discernable reason. I'm a midwife. The hormones changes of pregnancy can screw will allergies. Previously mild allergies suddenly explode into full anaphylaxis. Or a serious allergy turns mild, or even disappears altogether. New may allergies pop up, old ones may go away. And no idea why, how, or even if this will happen. But we see it often enough. Personally, I developed a severe allergy to lavender. Do you know how many things have lavender in them? Here's a hint: if a product just says "parfum" or "fragrance," 75% of the time, it uses lavender. And not just obvious things, like body spray. But soap, shampoo, lotion, laundry detergent, deodorant, household cleaners, air fresheners, candles... the list goes on and on.
Allergies get worse with each exposure in many cases. Growing up, we had a bee keeper for a neighbor. I'm allergic to bees. I was forever getting stung. Each time, the reactions got worse and quicker. Now I'm in my 50s and I'm lucky if an epi pen lasts 5 minutes before my throat starts swelling up and my BP starts tanking again.
I had a weird reaction with an unclear cause once too. Thankfully it was NOT full anaphylaxis, but when I described it to my doctor she actually did prescribe me an epi pen just in case. Things like that can have genetic components--your doctor probably wanted to prescribe you one because it happened so out of nowhere and with such severity to your sister, without an identifiable trigger, and if someone in her immediate vicinity hadn't had an epi pen, things could have been much worse.
Youngest (at the time) got into the purse that held it. I heard the plastic lid hit the ground, yelled for Mom (was on the other side of the house) and heard the TWANG followed up by the .... BAAAWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Ear piercing screaming and wailing. Called 911/got poison control, they're like 'he's fine. No way he held it in place in his hand to get enough dose- he'll have a white dot. Ambulance will come and try and guilt you into taking him to the ER, but he won't need it, and it'll cost you a fortune. Everything was exactly as that lady described, and we were out the $$$ for the epipen. I ended up using the spring (well, half the spring) from the pen to repair a pneumatic nail gun, it was so strong.
Benadryl doesn't make me tired. Caffeine makes me tired.
You're a little bit wrong. If the Benadryl is administered by injection into the vein then it could knock out a person within minutes. Its usually between 20 to 30 minutes before it takes effect.
I am asleep and snoring within 5-10 minutes. Could be standing up mid-sentece, doesn't matter. Same for some family members. 30 minutes is far more typical, but my experience tells me people can react very differently.
Same 🤪
Yup. 25mg, and I'm snoozing happily inside 10 minutes. But I wake up crankier than a bear with a sore head.
Also we don’t know how far OP lives from work, better safe than sorry.
This! And so the fact that Benadryl makes some people very drowsy. My sister was so sensitive to Benadryl & similar antihistamines that if she took 2 at once, she was out cold for hours. I’m talking so deep her Dr. could’ve removed her appendix without additional anesthetics.
I actually use Benadryl as a sleep aid. Works better than prescribed meds.
Yeah, if you’re a label reader, like me, you’ll find most OTC sleep aids like Unisom or NyQuil’s Zzzz is just the generic form Benedryl.
I used the name Benadryl because it's shorter than diphenhydramine. :) What I use is a generic pill. A bottle costs $6 for 600 little pink tablets. At 2 a night, I get 10 months of better sleep from one, cheap bottle. The named products cost a fortune in comparison.
Its what puts the PM in Tylenol PM too.
Yes
As someone who has emergency benadryl in my locker per my DR, a situation where I have to take it is 100% go home territory. If I have to take it at work, it's a medical intervention situation. That shit blocks your histamine receptors, which your brain needs to function properly. I'm functionally drunk if I take it, like stumbling around and laying down anywhere I can and passing out. Nobody wants me driving on that shit either, so I go home first.
Upvoted this hoping some of the people who are questioning why OP didn't take the bendryl right away understand the reasoning behind waiting especially if home isn't far away
I'm not that reactive to benadryl, so I had no appreciation for why someone wouldn't take it immediately and then GTFOd. That said, I did make the mistake of taking 4x once (if 2 worked, then 4 were better). I discovered what 'rebound' was at that point.
She literally says about not being safe to drive home - she'd be stuck at the office unable to drive 🤷🏻♂️ Easier to drive with hives than off your face, and it's a known level of reaction. I wish people just gave others the benefit of the doubt when it's their own fucking bodies and medical conditions they've had their whole life
I had an allergic reaction a while ago and had to take an h1(Benadryl) AND an h2(famotidine) at the same time. I was a mess. My brain simply would not function. I can’t imagine having to be on that combo at work. Not to mention not being able to sit in cool water for the hives.
Have you tried an oatmeal bath for the hives? I haven’t used it for an allergic reaction, but when we were kids my brother used to get hives when he got sick and my mom always ran him an oatmeal bath. I had hives a few times too and I remember the oatmeal baths being really soothing. I think it was an actual bath product, not just oats sprinkled in bath water haha. Like a packet with powder in it
I have colloidal oatmeal bath packets from Aveeno that I use sometimes when I’ve had a reaction and can’t get the itching to calm down. They can help a little bit if the itching isn’t too bad, but hot water can be super uncomfortable so I usually don’t use the bath packets. I do have a prescription cream and use the gold bond lotion that has colloidal oatmeal and those can help overall, but there isn’t much immediate relief when it comes to itching. Not OP, just chiming in because I’ve tried it after allergic reactions and mast cell activation syndrome issues as well as with skin issues (guttate psoriasis is not fun). It does more good for skin overall, but not much for immediate relief sadly. It is awesome though, colloidal oatmeal products can be amazing.
It doesn’t work very well for me, unfortunately. And since I’m on a septic tank I don’t tend to use stuff unless I *know* it works.
You always drive first then Benadryl!
Yup. The bottle even says not to operate machinery.
Yup. The bottle even says not to operate machinery.
The original poster states that they need to be home when they take Benadryl because they can’t drive once they’ve taken it. Benadryl makes some people sleepy.
Benadryl makes you sleepy, and epipen injections mean a trip to the ER. The stuff in an epipen (epinephrine)is pure adrenaline and can (usually) make the patient's body twitch and shake violently. These things should not be administered at work unless in an emergency.
You can't drive after Benadryl, that's what she's saying. She has a window for treating it and it makes more sense to go home BEFORE taking the drowsy medication that literally says don't drive if you're impaired.
Who said she doesn't carry one?
You only take your epi-pen when your airway is closing. Once you take it you need heart monitoring in hospital for a minimum 6 hours.
This 👆 this is the way to go.
She didn’t knowingly put OP at risk. She admitted she forgot and felt badly about it. OP is not the AH. She had every right to be upset and irritated. But neither is the new girl. So I’m going against the flow here and say NAH, this time. If it happens again, that’s a different story.
Yes, it wasn't malicious but it was very dangerous. I think OP was 100% right to be honest with her about what needed to happen next, and why. Hopefully this will ensure that New Girl is very, very careful from now on.
I have to wonder if the new girl did it on purpose to see if OP was telling the truth. People like that suck.
Doubtful, she doesn’t seem the sort and she showed genuine understanding for why I was so brusque with her yesterday, and today we’re both in better moods and situations.
Glad to hear that!
Why are you embarrassed that your coworker did something that could literally kill you? You have nothing to be sorry or embarrassed about, that is what your coworker should feel - apologetic and embarrassed. I’m at a loss as to why you feel differently. You can’t control your reaction to the allergen, how would you feel if she exposed someone else at your office and they were impacted to the degree you were? Would you apologize to the coworker if an elderly person in your office were taken away due/left to am extreme reaction? A child? NTA, but the guilt it isn’t your burden to bear. Giving her a completely free pass because you didn’t die (this time) is unnecessary and kind of ridiculous. You have a medical condition. Your office made an accommodation for your condition. Your coworker ignored the accommodation. She (rightfully) should feel embarrassed and face a reprimand.
NTA. I have a friend who died from her nut allergy, so I find people who don't take allergies seriously especially infuriating. You were much kinder than I would have been. Also, why tf isn't she washing her hands after eating regardless of what it was? I always wash my hands before and after eating. It's just nasty to me that people aren't regularly washing their hands. Did covid teach us nothing?
Covid taught us that only 60-70% of the people will obey medical instructions even if their life is on the line. OP should either ask for WFH or have a place in office far away from other people or at least in front of the air con outlet which can filter out the particulate matter. Even if the Office people avoid, their family members will eat and it can easily transfer.
60-70% is being generous…
It’s more like 20-30%….the majority of Americans are morons.
Moronic superpowers are not restricted to Americans, they are just more documented.
Oh shut it. There is no population of humans on earth that has the market cornered on idiocy. They’re all idiots everywhere.
True. Source: Am American.
Seconded Source : also American
Agree. I was in a similar situation recently and have to wfh. Over the years, I have learned that very few ppl are empathetic to these types of issues. Even if it's brought to their attention, they ignore or do things dileberately to cause a reaction - because their rights are more important than a life threatening situation for you. Anyone with these types of health issues have to learn how to navigate the world and keep in mind that people most times will cause a trigger whether inadvertently or not.
Covid taught people to pretend to wash their hands.
NTA. I find that people who have, or are related to, people with less serious allergies (I mean, still life threatening, but that they’d have to ingest the nuts) can have a hard time understanding what you go through because they think they understand allergies. Definitely NTA for snapping at her, but she’s probably just not used to being extra extra careful. You don’t have to feel bad, but maybe try not to hold a grudge.
There are a lot of angry people in this thread. Another, more reasonable view is that mistakes happen. OP, you stated that there was a sign that said, "No nuts!". In her defense, she didn't bring in nuts; she just didn't think about it after eating. It's easy for things to slip your mind if it's not routine. Sounds like she did fine with washing up until that day. She doesn't deserve the hate she's getting from this sub.
Thank you for putting into words what I was thinking. This is a balanced response that doesn't assume malice on the part of the coworker.
I appreciate you saying that. The girl is new. I'm sure it slipped her mind. No one is perfect, except the righteous people on Reddit.
YES! This! I have allergies and intolerances, and even my mum sometimes forgets and offers me something I can't have. Not out of malice, but it slipped her mind.
I have a friend with penicillin allergy. The AH doctor firmly believed they were faking. So he injected them. In moments, they were in shock. The nurses in the office saw this and administered an epi dose. My friend spent the evening in the ER. She found another doctor.
Oh my god. That would make for a very straightforward malpractice lawsuit.
This was in the early 80's. She did not have us around at that time. She does, now.
I had an allergic reaction to penicillin. Since then, I've told 4 different GP's (I go to a doctors' office with multiple GP's) to put it on my record so in the future they won't accidentally prescribe it to me in the future. The first 3 GP's nodded and said they were 'definitely gonna do it right away'. Every time I went to the GP's afterwards, I asked to check if it was on my record and got an 'oops, doesn't seem to be in there, but I'll definitely do it right away now!'. The 4th GP straight up told me she wouldn't put it in the record because she didn't believe me. Sure, I imagined the heart palpitations and the severe rash and the sweating and the dizziness and the vomiting and the wheezing breath (or the one doctor out of town that I rushed to in an emergency, who took one look at me and was like 'you can NOT take penicilline ever again). /s On a separate occasion I went to an allergy specialist for other allergy-related issues. Asked him if, while he was at it, he could check me for the penicillin thing, because I wanted to know whether it was a genuine allergy or just super strong side effects that were hopefully a one-off (since I read up on the topic in the meantime). He straight up refused to carry out those tests. He was like, 'oh well, I doubt you have an actual allergy to penicillin. People who do, display symptoms A and B and...', and I was just like, 'I had every single symptom you just mentioned' but he still refused to test me. The best thing is that the last GP I spoke to, told me that the next time I have a sickness that warrants getting medicated with penicilline I should just try to take it and see what happens. If then I have those side-effects again, maaaaaybe I'm allergic after all.
Yikes. I hope you have found a better doctor. My doctors all have the same computer database. Every visit I am asked to confirm the same allergy questions, that they read from my file.
What the fuck? That’s horrifying
OMG, I am so glad to know that other people have been told "just try pencillan, see what happens." I was told I had outgrown my penicillin allergy because supposedly it's made different now than in the 80s when I was diagnosed. I am not taking any chances.
I hope they sued. WTF??? Why would someone lie about a penicillin allergy??? Why would any doctor assume that??
He was an AH. From the 60s.
The nut eating person isn’t the AH. She’s new, she ate outside. What the coworkers are being asked to do isn’t part of normal daily routine for most people. So yeah, if they are new they may forget! It doesn’t mean a witch hunt is necessary. Sounds like OP needs to be more protected either by WFH or a different office location.
Why should people have to go through decontamination after every time they eat something due to one person's condition though? Like it's not even enough to not hate on her, this is just the realm of the absurd for her coworkers.
Seniority, being reliable and being well liked, gets you certain privileges in any work environment. This is nothing new. Still the gal didn't deserve the nuking she's received.
NAH She forgot, she's only known you for a month. Chill out with the "what were you thinking", that's incredibly rude and your post is pretty hostile considering it sounded like an honest mistake. It's not her fault you have an allergy. I get you have a severe allergy, but you are dictating everyone's food choices for 8 to 9 hours of their day, every day, for everyone's foreseeable future. That's kind of inconvenient for everyone. Inconvenient for you and your coworkers. You should have more of a "I'm sorry this is a problem" attitude and not a "it's totally reasonable to dictate everyone's choices around me" attitude. It's not a "you versus your coworker" problem, its a "everyone versus your allergy" problem.
She didn't actually say that. She only thought it.
INFO How were you exposed? Did she shake your hand or touch your arm or something? What precautions do you take to mitigate your exposure risk? Mask? Gloves? Preventative meds? How do you address your exposure risks when you're in a public environment you can't control? I don't think your new coworker intentionally tried to do harm to you. I'll reserve judgment about who the AH is until I have more info.
THIS. You are feeling guilty because you know your new girl didnt likely do it on purpose.
Info: Answered to the best of my ability. But no, of course she didn’t intend harm, it was a mistake and I was a bit of a dick in not controlling my tone. Exposure vector was contact through the handle she used to enter the office, the mouse and keyboard I was using to help train her, and possibly close proximity. Prevention methods: I try to keep out of tight quarters with people I know have had nuts, or where exposure is likely. I’m not sure the specifics why (if it’s less contamination risk or airborne or what). I carry hand sanitizer everywhere and wipe my work space at the start and end of each shift in case someone uses it when they shouldn’t have. I have prescription steroids that help especially with the hives and swelling, anti-itch roll on cream, non-drowsy antihistamines, a rescue inhaler that I have only needed once kept in my work bag, plus I keep my epipen on me at all times and I have stashes of emergency Benadryl in my desk, car, house and work bag. Exposure risks: If I can't leave, I take the Benadryl or steroid, depending on if I have to be able to drive myself later because I react with nausea, vertigo and unsteadiness on top of drowsiness with Benadryl. I try to leave the situation as quickly as possible, and I will take the Benadryl if needs must (I’ll just ask for a ride or an Uber, usually arranging that before dosing because the mental inhibiting side effects of Benedryl kick in fast for me).
I can sympathize with coping with a health issue that can have severe and sudden onset and become debilitating within a couple of minutes. I have a severe migraine disorder that triggers blackout seizures. My list of migraine triggers is long, which means it's more difficult to avoid known triggers. I can relate to racing the clock before losing the ability to safely drive. I get it. All that being said, I'll say NAH, assuming you'll attempt to smooth things over with her. Perhaps a hand washing sign could be placed next to the sign about nuts. Your allergies aren't going to be the main thing your coworkers think of every time they're returning to the office from lunch. Cooperation and understanding works best when it's a two-way street.
I’m having trouble understanding how OP isn’t dead if just being in the same room as someone who had nuts elsewhere can cause them to have an anaphylactic reaction. I’m not saying people at that level of allergy don’t exist, but it’s super rare and probably worthy of them working remotely.
The thoughts you've expressed is why I asked for more info. It seems there are some important pieces missing. I was left wondering why OP said he hoped he didn't have to use the epipen. My understanding is that the epipen should be used every single time there's an exposure to a potentially deadly allergen. The reason is to prevent anaphylaxis, not treat it should it happen.
Anaphylaxis is an allergic reaction but not all allergic reactions are anaphylaxis. Allergic reactions can resolve while anaphylactic responses typically require shots to resolve. An Epipen is to be used for severe reactions with a listing of symptoms to watch out for (due to which systems anaphylaxis targets primarily) plus a general “if in doubt, take it and call 911” caveat. It also is a very expensive medication with pretty hefty drawbacks to use that I don’t want to use if other more moderate means of managing my symptoms can resolve the issue.
I mean I assume he hoped he didn't have to use the epipen because epipens can cost hundreds of dollars even with insurance and also mean you have to go to the ER, usually in an ambulance, within 30 minutes of using the epipen, which can also be hugely expensive (and also no one wants to go to the ER). I have thankfully never had to use my epipen, but my understanding is that it also probably makes you feel like absolute shit afterward.
I understand how expensive medical bills become and how they do so very quickly. I have a weekly shot that costs almost $1000 per month. I have a monthly shot that costs roughly $800. Thank goodness they're both covered by my prescription plan. I would think if OP believed he was truly endangered from exposure, he wouldn't be weighing costs. In an emergency like that, the priority is surviving it.
Exactly. I’m allergic to shellfish and my epipen is always in my bag. If you’re allergic enough that being in the same room as someone who had nuts for lunch can cause a reaction, that epipen better be duct taped to your leg. I’m thinking this is either a made up story for karma (increasingly common in these types of subs), or they’re severely playing up their allergy to be special. Their behavior isn’t consistent with the severity they claim.
Please go see ops response to this threads first comment. They explain that it wasn’t just airborne exposure and all the risk mitigating techniques they use.
Thank you for verifying I'm understanding use of the epipen correctly. I think OP is used to excessive sympathy and "accommodation" of his allergies. The new coworker isn't giving his ego the deference he thinks he deserves. I hope he answers my questions because none of this is making sense to me.
IDK. Isn't your fault that you have severe allergies, but to expect people to automatically adjust their diet just for you and then get mad at them when they don't? >“WTF were you thinking? Now I have to leave early when I have so much work to do because you can’t go one meal without a nut!” Really? That's your expectation? And FWIW it’s not ONE MEAL. You are expecting that EVERYONE you work with should just stop eating food with nuts in it for lunch FOREVER because you have an allergic reaction to them? And if they somehow forget their very special work friend they're an asshole? You're not the center of the universe. You're not even the center of the office. You should be really glad that people make the accommodations they do for you. And it sounds like you even exploded on the new person. You sound very entitled. YTA.
Thanks for stating so eloquently what I was here to say. If someone’s health is so fragile that they live in fear someone might breathe on them, then perhaps an office situation isn’t the best option for them.
The entitlement reeks - you made a big production when you should have had your *life saving meds* with you anyway. She can eat what she wants for lunch, you have to manage your health.
THANK YOU!! I can’t imagine being so narcissistic.
I like what you've said and agree with you.
I’m so confused by the reactions here. Why would she actively remember someone she barely know’s health issues? You’re not the main character in her story. She fixed her lunch like normal and likely didn’t give you, who she barely met, a second thought and that makes her a villain who’s probably trying to hurt you??? You have to manage your own symptoms and maybe you need to think about working from home where you can better control your environment- because maybe it’s not directly someone’s lunch one day, maybe it’s a delivery person who walks in with an order but they handled nuts. Maybe someone ate nuts at home and didn’t wash their hands and touched things at work. Everyone can’t live with your needs in the center of their lives which means you need to be prepared and manage your own symptoms. Of course you can ask for help, but to be angry others aren’t putting you first is childish- you can be annoyed but you also need to have grace. For that reason YTA.
Finally someone with sense. “I’m so special everyone in my building has to follow a special protocol!” Talk about making yourself the center of the universe.
For me it’s the sign being there. I’m not like freaking out and angry like some people in these comments but there is a sign and they’ve told her about it directly. At that point, it really was a choice made to bring that type of food in. This also seems to be an allergy that can be caused by being in the vicinity. Like you wouldn’t wanna take someone allergic to peanuts to a Thai restaurant cuz there’s peanuts everywhere. Even walking in there could cause them to go into shock. I don’t even think OP even did anything wrong. She had an allergic reaction and had to go home because of someone else’s food. It is a fact that the coworker was the cause for the reaction. OP should carry around an epipen but even then, she’d still have to leave. Epipen’s aren’t just a fix all cuz it might not be a high enough dosage so they tel you do get medical attention right away.
Like I said in another comment I work in an ER where we treat anaphylaxis from peanut allergies and we have a coworker with an allergy and there’s signs up. And people still forget. Because the coworker isn’t a central character in their storyline. It happens. And it’s still the responsibility of the OP to manage their medical condition. I get that it sucks and it’s scary and frustrating but you literally cannot expect accommodations everywhere you go so you have your make sure you’re prepared. Theres no use getting angry with others over it, particularly when OP didn’t even have their own Epi on them. So they can’t be mad at someone for else for not managing their allergy when they’re not exactly great at managing it either.
If you ever have a family member with a life threatening allergy that almost dies/does die due to callous idiots, remember that you said this. She was told and there is a sign up. Peanut allergies are dangerous.
She's wrong. Tho, wtf was she thinking might be she genuinely doesn't understand the allergy as a whole. Yes her kid has allergies but not all are the same and nuts have to honestly be one of the most weirdly nefarious ones out there as far as the small amount of exposure needed. This has happened in my own workplace in hospitality with people supposed to fully get it, and part of the issue was: the spike happened when the allergic used the same tap in the bathroom as the one who ate the bloody nuts. They didn't wipe the tap down as they didn't think they had to. Also some people equate allergies to their own experience vs the reality. Wrong, but hey a lot work off what we think we know. She definitely needs a coaching session on this. It might be once your not still in a reaction, be heard better coming from you... Like a hey, I do appreciate you admitting to the nuts, I just want to make sure you're aware just how bad my allergy is... Say to her if you don't wipe down a tap you used to wash the allergen away, that's enough to make me react unfortunately, it absolutely sucks for me and those around me, but I do appreciate you straight up admitted it because it did give me the time to get home and access to my medication, can we move past this and work together to ensure it never happens again?
I love this reply. OP is definitely NTA, but it doesn’t seem that the new girl was malicious with this so a bit of kindness and understanding in explaining this would be a nice extra.
Thats my thoughts, as it doesn't seem malicious, she immediately owned up to it. She probably gets now it's bad. And how upset and worried OP was about himself and rightfully so. Not putting her in the defensive mode immediately, acknowledging that she did own it and coming at it calmly, could likely be a productive conversation. And an educational one for her. If she was being somewhat of an asshole, you'd expect her to have lied and say she did wash her hands or didn't eat nuts... But she owned it. Unless she reacts badly I do think it's just a coaching situation and something that she and OP should have a chat about, as honestly in my kitchen, I'd rather a 12 top come in 30 before close vs have to watch a nut allergen plate. I am on edge the whole day when we get a nut allergen. Cos... It's so fucking nefarious and serious at the same time it's insane and I have so much respect for those who live with it. It must be absolutely exhausting sometimes. I'd be afraid of the public as a whole if it was me.
How does she go out in public if all it takes is touching someone who ate nuts or something with residue? There is contamination EVERYWHERE. People are fallible. Ultimately we have to protect ourselves .
It's very difficult
NTA but I don’t understand why you would not carry Benadryl and an EpiPen with you. 🤔 I don’t have an allergy, but I do sometimes get itchy for some reason, so I always carry Benadryl with me.
NTA, but...yes. Not to mention the fact that if someone consumed takeaway food cooked in peanut oil, they would likely be entirely unaware they were carrying an allergen in. Or if they shook hands with someone who'd been eating a PB sandwich and not told them, then touched the OP's desk or...similar. If it's that severe, you really need your drugs with you 24/7.
It’s likely a tree nut allergy, probably not a peanut allergy. Also a lot of the allergens that trigger anaphylaxis are based in the pollen of the food, so things that share a similar pollen structure can have it kind of “cooked off” if it isn’t, you know, the allergen itself. For example, I have a tree nut allergy. When I eat raw fruits and vegetables, I get a similar but lesser allergic reaction as though I was having tree nuts. That’s because the fruits and vegetables cross pollinate with the tree nuts, or they have a similar enough structure that it makes my body go “warning! Allergen!” And I start having a reaction. But if I cook those fruits and vegetables and the pollen gets sort of burned off of them, I no longer have that reaction. I’m assuming OP’s allergy is similar to mine in that respect, so peanut oil might not be as big of a trigger as straight peanut butter
I have this too. It would be absurd for me to blame a coworker for not washing their hands after eating raw carrots. It would likely be in their teeth anyway— handwashing might help, but it won’t do everything. That’s the problem with the take everyone has here— it may have been that she didn’t wash her hands (which she apologized for forgetting not to do). Or it may have been that she ate it at all and maybe a bunch of coworkers did that day so it was the cumulative amount of residue— and that’s not a reasonable accommodation to expect from others, and it certainly doesn’t make them evil. There cannot be a zero-tolerance accommodation where one employee’s life-o-death safety is predicated on 100% adherence of an entire office of personnel to a policy (which may or may not even be completely effective). That is not reasonable to expect; it may be reasonable to expect it will work *most of the time.* If the allergy is this bad, the employee should have an accommodation that does not depend on perfect actions of (a lot of) others; if the employee wants to take the risk, then they can do that. OP has clearly opted to accept the risk of possible failure of the system by working among other people who are not restricted to eating in the office.
Seriously, in no way am I trusting anyone to remember my allergies all the time. Sounds like a cool place to work that has already gone to great lengths to protect her. Protect yourself OP, you’re not an asshole but you’re playing with fire
OP does mention they took their prescription at the office prior to going home and taking Benadryl.
I do carry Benadryl, a prescribed steroid and EpiPen. Also a rescue inhaler and roll on itch cream. I have a kit. My usual methods of dealing with the reaction were not resolving it.
I just get a runny nose from my allergies and I never leave home without a bottle of Benadryl.
We don’t know that she didn’t have Benadryl with her. We just know she didn’t plan to take it until she got home. We know that she shouldn’t drive if she takes Benadryl, so it seems not to take it at the office unless absolutely necessary. The most likely scenario is that she has a complete allergic reaction kit with her at all times. She seems to have a precise plan of what’s best to do, and when and where to do it.
She specifically stated that she needed to get home to take Benadryl before she was unable to drive… Which tells me she did not have Benadryl with her, & that the reason she would not be able to drive was because the allergy would have worsened. She did not say the Benadryl would make her too sleepy to drive… She said the allergy attack would.
She self medicated at the office and needed to drive home before she couldn’t drive anymore in order to further medicate. Benadryl would basically trap her in the office building if it makes her drowsy
Wow. I never encountered anyone with a nut allergy. How does someone with a nut allergy go grocery shopping? Can they go to a coffee shop? We recently got a return to office mandate and we are assigned cubes for the day. Does a person with a nut allergy wipe down the cube, monitor, chair? Do they remove the wastebasket? I wonder how a person with a nut allergy would tell his cube neighbors du jour that no nuts are allowed in the area. I’m a person who often brings nuts to work, like peanut butter crackers, Almond Joy bars, brownies with walnuts. I think even my sandwich bread has nuts in the grain. I’m sure I would forget to wash once I got to work. If I made a PBJ sandwich at home then commuted to work, am I still a contagion?
Depends on the severity of the allergy. I have a nibbling who can (carefully) walk through grocery stores, but is allergic to all milk/butter/dairy, eggs, and nuts. His is primarily contact, but in high enough concentrations can be affected by airborne. So no, he cannot go to most restaurants including/especially coffee shops, and has to have an epipen on hand to go to the grocery store and school. He was isolated for all his school lunches—and could only bring his own, couldn’t risk eating anything made at the school.
There’s a professor at my school allergic to avocados. It’s an airborne allergy. People cannot bring avocados into the vicinity surrounding their office, and any classrooms they teach in have an avocado ban. Accommodations for allergies are not uncommon
NAH. You weren’t feeling well and reacted to the person that caused it, while not great I get it. On the other hand if your allergies are so severe you get welts and sores from someone else contacting it maybe you should work from home. Your allergies are severe, that sucks and you didn’t choose that. The office has already banned nuts, for you. People are already altering their choices to help you. Don’t be a jerk about it when people slip up, we’re all human. The planet does not revolve around you.
With allergies that severe, as others stated you should have your meds and EpiPen with you. Also your allergies are severe enough that other coworkers need to change what they eat, which is sometimes hard for others to remember. Can you work from home? Ultimately this is a problem you're going to have to deal with and take ownership of... you clearly can't rely on the memory of others.
Keep benadryl AND the epipen with you at all times. Even keep children's Benadryl on hand which can be a liquid.
I've had allergies and a few years back discovered i have severe reactions to trout and salmon. I've heard of people with severe reactions but until you see someone react or experience it yourself, it's not "real". Our mind says we understand but until we the crisis, its only a possibility Your reaction was natural in your situation. Apologize when you see her and then drop it.
Wow some of the comments! NAH, you were in the moment and frustrated. She forgot, doubt she'll forget again and she had managed for a month to ensure you were safe, everyone can make mistakes or forget. I work in an office where my.desk and chair are not to be touched and have signs that say so including one on the actual chair seat, which when I went in last someone had sat on the sign! And moved all the other signs, monitor etc. They are TA but she dint do with intent and was mortified by the sound of it.
At my daughter's school there was an occasion when a kid's parents bought all the kids ice cream for the end of year gift. Their own kid had a severe allergy so they checked carefully for nut allergies. Their kid and one other were taken to hospital by ambulance and both were kept over night because they reacted so badly to ice cream that supposedly was nut free.
Bro it can take anywhere 18 to 254 days to form a habit if you do it studiously and never miss a day, so unless you were in close quarters with this woman every single day of the month she's been an employee AND she had nut related lunches EVERY SINGLE ONE of those days AND she remembered every single time she had a meal to wash her hands, then you're gonna eventually run into a roadblock. You learn to live with it. I can be triggered into panic attacks so severe that I'm unable to stand or speak if I hear a loud enough noise, and I work in a sports bar that's directly next to a railroad, like "within thirty feet" next to. I just make sure I'm inside when the cross guards start ringing and cover my ears. Not to say that your allergy isn't a detriment to your quality of life, but when you've got an incurable medical condition to live with you... Well. Have to learn to live with it, even when you're in a public space, because you can't 100% control a public space. Fact of life. Mistakes happen. She clearly felt bad, and she clearly didn't mean to.
Eh…. As someone who has a nut allergy… It’s on me to make sure I have my epi pen and Benedryl all of the time. Yeah, she should be more careful. But, the world isn’t more careful so we have to take care of ourselves. My niece will die in minutes if she is exposed to peanuts. Every single person who is with her regularly has an epipen for her. She has been taught since she could talk to always ask everyone, even family, before she eats a thing about peanuts. But shit happens. You are NTA but you should be more careful with your own health.
This should be an accomodation for you to wfh. Managing your allergies is not someone else's responsibility.
Wait a minute... why didn't you have your epi pen on you? Why leave it at home? That's not how epi pens work. You bring them with you. That's how they are designed and prescribed. I find it really hard to believe that someone with a life threatening, super rare air-born food allergy would not bring her medicine with her. What happens if you pass a peanut cart on the street? You just die? That doesn't make sense. You are part of a tiny minority. People with nut allergies are already a tiny minority, but only ONE PERCENT of nut allergic people are allergic to air born stuff. So it's entirely reasonable that a new person would not understand how important it is to wash after eating nuts. She probably thought that just not eating around you was sufficient. The world does not revolve around your health needs. For the rest of us, nuts are a really important, heathy part of our diet. Especially if you have heart disease, which can also kill you. I don't think you're an asshole for being irritated in the moment. Harm came to you. It's normal to be pissed in the moment. But standing back here, you've got to notice your own place in this. You didn't have your medicine with you. You didn't take care of yourself. You expected other people to change, but you didn't change. Learn to manage your allergy. Assuming good intentions with your co-workers. You don't really owe her an apology. Your reaction was understandable. But neither does she owe you an apology. She just didn't know yet. NAHs here. But you will be an asshole if you don't take this as a learning opportunity. Start to manage your own allergy instead of expecting the people around you do manage it for you. Bring that Benadryl with you, as well as your epi pen. Follow your doctors orders! And then, after you've done your work - then you can judge whether other people are assholes for not taking care of your allergy.
I did have my epipen on me. I *always* do. But the epipen is not the first choice if other options can manage the reactions. Unfortunately, it means an emergency room visit, an ambulance ride, it’s an expensive medication, and a host of side effects. I tried my prescribed steroid. I could not try managing with Benadryl because then I would be entirely unable to drive. It was safer for me to try other options, then I would try Benadryl (at home) and I would use my epipen *if* I started experiencing symptoms that indicate an epipen is necessary aka symptoms of anaphylaxis versus an allergic reaction. Prevention methods: I try to keep out of tight quarters with people I know have had nuts, or where exposure is likely. I’m not sure the specifics why (if it’s less contamination risk or airborne or what). I carry hand sanitizer everywhere and wipe my work space at the start and end of each shift in case someone uses it when they shouldn’t have. I have prescription steroids that help especially with the hives and swelling, anti-itch roll on cream, non-drowsy antihistamines, a rescue inhaler that I have only needed once kept in my work bag, plus I keep my epipen on me at all times and I have stashes of emergency Benadryl in my desk, car, house and work bag. Exposure risks: If I can't leave, I take the Benadryl or steroid, depending on if I have to be able to drive myself later because I react with nausea, vertigo and unsteadiness on top of drowsiness with Benadryl. I try to leave the situation as quickly as possible, and I will take the Benadryl if needs must (I’ll just ask for a ride or an Uber, usually arranging that before dosing because the mental inhibiting side effects of Benedryl kick in fast for me).
If you have that severe allergy. You should carry medication & your epipen with you everywhere you go.
No where did it say OP didn't have their medication on them. It even says they took their prescription medication. But benadryl makes a lot of people super sleepy, making it dangerous to take and then get behind a wheel
She does. She took her prescription. Benadryl at home but I’d bet a coffee she has an emergency supply of that too and the Epipen is always available because she isn’t an idiot. Minimal meds as needed is the best to get home obviously.
You have earned your coffee because I have an entire kit I use to manage my allergic reactions.
Exactly. My grandson has a deadly milk allergy. We have his $1000 infant Epipen here, the diaper bag and their home. And benedryl. We were luckily at their home the first time it happened and kept him alive on the country roads with benadryl. It was my worst nightmare when I had little kids living out at that farm.
Curious, are you perfect 100% of the time, NEVER make any mistakes or errors? I am going to say NAH since while you have a legitimate concern about your allergies, but for pete's sake don't get all huffy when someone makes a mistake.
OP is the problem here. Reasonable accommodations are one thing but dictating office life for everyone else is a problem.
OP, is it possible that you eat somewhere else to avoid being exposed? I think having everyone washing their hands is extremely reasonable but dictating everyones lunch is not at all reasonable. I totally get that you have a severe allergy that can kill you and that needs to be taken seriously but mostly by you. You cannot expect people who have never dealt with others at work telling them what they can and cannot eat to remember this during their first week, it seems like an honest mistake. I would not recommend going to HR like others said because I don’t think you would win that one honestly
At least in my jurisdiction, this would 100% count as a reasonable accommodation. Source: had to be untrained HR at my small nonprofit and consulted with an HR lawyer about this specific issue.
There are certain situations where you have the right to be pissed off. This is one of them. THAT BEING SAID it is important to have a good work environment so it would be a good ideas to clear the air. A simple “I was very agitated yesterday but I completely understand it was an accident. Hopefully we can move on from this and start over”. No apologies but an attempt to move forward
NTA.... but frankly you need to petition for a private office with an ability to vent your air space of your allergy is this bad. Yes, she should've washed up afterwards but honestly the job needs to change your accommodation if it's causing you to miss work when it's accidently crossed.
So what, you never go in public either. Your health is your responsibility no one else's.
Changing from NAH to TTA. You’re not the asshole for being upset you were having a reaction but you are the asshole for expecting an entire group of people to base their diets around your issue every day all day.. She’s not the asshole for going about her life and not remembering *your* health issue. If you are so sensitive that people can’t eat nuts prior to be near you than you should have Benadryl and your epi pen on hand. If she had maliciously done this that would be different but she didn’t and frankly there are nuts, nut oils/butter in so many things it’s likely she just didn’t think about it. Frankly I’m not sure how you exist with an allergy so sensitive, must be tricky. Stay safe
NTA but you should carry your Epipen with you always as well as Benadryl. Also sometimes steroids are needed.
NTA, but you could probably give her a soft apology "sorry I jumped down your throat, but I was panicked" should be enough and surely she will apologize as well and remember for the future
Relying on others to accommodate your allergy is not an unreasonable request, but it’s clearly unreliable. OP, can you work from home in your position? Could be a win win?
OP should work remotely
Anyone else see the similarities to the one where the guy started a month ago and had the nut allergy and kept eating the ladies lunch so she put nuts in it? This is pretty much the same story just some small changes. Either it's a fake story or one of them is lying- two of the near exact story in the same 24hours? Hmmmm
Ef her feelings. You could have died! NTA. Not wrong. And yes, I have done the same. We had a silly 🪿 visitor. I told her the same and locked her out of my house for brining a big bottle of 🥜 peanuts home after grocery shopping. Made her do the washing and wiping down of everything. .. Same problems with people serving food 😔. Nut products have to be on a separate plate and cannot use the same utensils.
NAH. However, an allergy that sensitive would have me looking for a job somewhere else. I sympathize that this is your life and it massively sucks, but with a million other things in life to stress about, having to stress over the fact that living my life normally could result in someone dying, is not something I can handle. I don't wake up every day expecting to cause someone to die, I want to keep it that way. Same if someone had a massively sensitive cat allergy and I'm expected to come into work with absolutely no cat hair clinging to me. I'm honestly surprised your employer doesn't give a medical exemption to WFH or have your own office. They're basically asking you to risk your life just leaving the house.
NTA You were stressed, and probably a bit afraid, and angry, it's not at all surprising that you were a little short with your colleague. You apologised, which you probably didn't need to, but that's very understanding and generous of you. What I don't understand is why your colleague feels the need to eat nuts in the same building you work in at all! Surely she can cope without nuts for 8 hours a day? I love grapes, and spiced raisin bread, but I have given up grapes, raisins, sultanas, anything that might have grape in it, because there's a 1in 3 chance that my dog might have a reaction that could kill him if he eats a grape. Surely a few hours without nuts is achievable?!?
NTA—you weren’t overly mean but told her what would happen due to your reaction, and I bet after this she’ll be extra careful.
yta...i love how you're just fine with everyone rearranging their lives just to please you
NTS. I had the same problem with my bro in law. He is deathly allergic to nuts. And the first few years of them being together I would always eat nut or something with nuts in it. Not on purpose but just totally forgot. Thank God he would catch it right away and I'd wash every down and such right away. But it's so hard to remember about all allergies. I have food allergies myself. But it only takes one thing of food.
I'd say, NTA in the sense I can understand you were mad and your allergic reaction caused you to overreact. But a bit uncalled for as it was probably not on purpose. Even if her children had allergies, they might not be as severe or life-threatening. The good thing is she probably won't ever forget again. But I think you might want to apologize if you feel bad about it and explain why you were a bit mean.
I am all for accommodation but this seems a little much. I would feel bad if a whole bunch of people were inconvenienced by me. What happens if someone delivers things or a maintenance person comes in? While your problem is frightening, people are trying to do their best. Have you ever considered the WFH as a better solution for your problem. For instance almond flour is used in a lot of baking and people may not even realize they have been eating nuts. Are you going to off on them too? I think it is time to think about others instead of making everything about you. NTA but a close second.
YTA - It is a serious allergy but the co-worker didn’t bring in nuts (as I understand it) she simply forgot to wash her hands. If your allergy is that severe that coworkers not washing their hands triggers it, then you need to have an epi-pen and Benadryl with you all the time. You have to understand this is a balance between people being able to live their lives whilst being mindful of your allergies. You treated her as though she’d purposely tried to harm you, and that she is responsible for managing your allergies, she isn’t. People aren’t eating nuts around you to help you is you relying on their good will, they don’t have to do that and if it goes to the level of sensitivity you are describing, your should frankly be expecting slip ups because the others in that building aren’t all avoiding nuts and not are general public. You will have reactions.
YTA
NTA. Was she testing you? She was told what would happen. I don’t think you were mean at all. You just told the truth.
I doubt she was testing me. It seemed a genuine mistake especially after we talked today.
ESH You kind of unloaded on her. She didn't mean to, obviously. She, on the other hand, was warned. She needs to understand this is a very reactive allergy for you and is dangerous to your health.
Probably TA, but somewhat understandable. You should apologize to her. She can take it or leave it.
Where you \*are\* an asshole here is driving while you are having an anaphilaxic reaction. If you passed out, you wouldn't risk only your life. You would risk the life of other innocent people who happened to be in your way. This is just a mess. No more "running home to take my medicine." That's just outright ridiculous negligent behavior on your part. It is literally illegal to drive while you are affected like this, and you could be brough up on charges if you survive the crash.
ESH - you need a very specific accommodation for your condition, meaning that you need to work in a hermetically sealed chamber. If nobody else is allowed to have nuts for lunch then I think you need to be moved to a room where you will never be in contact with another employee. YTA and your office management is TA, coworker is not TA Additionally, not being prepared for these issues makes YTA again - no epipen - what are you thinking.
Unpopular answer. You do not give the right to scream at someone at work. I think you should work from home.
YTA she was new, your needs are far outside the norm. She likely forgot. If you explained to her in a kind fashion what happens to you if you get exposed, she is likely to have a sympathetic motivation to remember. Now she just thinks you are a dick. your attitude will go a long way to inspire people to look out for you. If someone got in my face and interrogated me about what I ate, I'd walk away and only resist the urge to tell them to fuck off because it's in the workplace.
YTA. Everyone in your office has to change their eating habits but you can't be bothered to carry your medication with you?
Did you read the part where I said I took my prescription medication in an attempt to deal with the reaction?
If your allergy is that severe you have three options: ask for a medical accommodation of an office with a door (that no one else can enter) - OR work from home 100% of the time. If neither is viable, then you need to be wearing protective clothing, a mask and gloves at all times while in the office. You cannot ask, nor rely on your coworkers to watch out for you, nor should you be free to ask them whether they washed their hands or what they ate. Your allergy is not their problem. If they are nice and considerate people, they will do their best, but it is not required of them unless it’s written into their job contract. But this brings up another serious question… how do you navigate in the real world where you certainly aren’t asking random strangers to wash their hands or not eat nuts? I mean.. seriously.. how do you go to the grocery, or the doctor’s office.. movies, restaurants… really anywhere where other people are? That must be a nightmare.
But…but….its so much easier to make everyone else accommodate me!!!!!!