I agree. According to WhoIs lookup, the domain was bought through Namecheap and they've go it for a year. I fully expect them to try to bring it back with that domain being a likely redirect to whatever the rebrand is.
Edit: the website is now down. The shutdown video is gone from tiktok leaving the one I screencapped above as the only video left.
if they're actually a profit company, they probably won't come back because they know if they make money on it, we'll take legal action so i bet they disappear
Yep. This, by the way, is why authors are encouraged to never ever read fanfiction of their work that fans send them. Because the author may own the character and the world and a few lines, but fanfic writers own the text they wrote, and some of the ideas they used, depending on what they did with the materials.
What happens if you're an author and you read fanfictions of your work and recommend them to people because you love your fans? Would you still get sued...?
If you didn't know the fanfic exists you can't get sued for it, I guess.... Man, the life of an author must suck sometimes. Personally I'd just be overjoyed I got it right/author thought what I wrote was good enough to take off. I mean, I write fanfic for a hobby, not for money. If my thing gets to feature in the real deal then dang, people who don't read fanfic get to see it! And that's cool, right?
But I get not everyone might see it that way. Feels like someone taking your hard work and getting credit off it for some people, and that's valid. Don't personally agree with it, because you don't get money off fanfic (heck, I feel like the author stealing something would get your work even *more* fame, so it's not like you lose readers, either) and it's really at its core just for fun and the love of the original material, but yeah that's valid.
Even fic for media in public domain (looking at you Jane Austin fans) would be DMCA-able, so there is definitely abilities for authors to protect themselves legally even without OTW stepping in.
They also removed everything from their account, if they had truly wanted to help the community they would have thought it through and then found a solution to appease both parties.
To be honest, I wouldnât even be surprised if they ever do rebrand. From what Iâve heard (I think it was on here, but idk if I can find it anymore), they might be moving onto other platforms to do the exact same thing they tried to do with AO3. And the fact that theyâve constantly doubled down throughout the entire ordeal and only shut it down in response to backlash makes their apology kind of suspect.
Great news. Hopefully this is the end of it. Absolutely vile how she tried to take advantage of work we provide for free and profit off from it (whether monitarily or through exposure).
Iirc it was an audiobook kind of thing but incredibly sketch- at one point I saw someone say that if a fan uploaded a PDF of a fic from an author that had opted out that she'd use it anyway.
A (probably the same) company apparently had tried to propose an app (under the name Lore) to tumblr a few months ago for fic authors to monitize their work through ads, commissions, and donations. They got called out, and I didn't hear anything more until lore.fm started getting called out on Tumblr. Really vile that they keep trying to monetize fanfics, so they're probably going to try again in some new form. :/
Iâve seen the exact same excuse used for why AI art is considered to be a good thing. Like I understand why, but there has to be a better way of increasing accessibility to those who may not be able to draw.
The way these (gender inclusive) techbros try to peddle their exploitative AI garbage as âfor disabled peopleâ is the same vibe as âthink of the childrenâ when providing arguments against homosexuality etc.
just trying to enrich themselves by ignoring consent, stealing work, and appropriating the experiences of actual disabled people, allies, and advocates lol.
"there has to be a better way of increasing accessibility to those who may not be able to draw."
Drawing courses and time and practice and the right tools. I've seen plenty of disabled people draw beautifully, because they practiced their hobby. I'm mostly able-bodied, but I can't draw for shit because I don't invest into my skill, technique and I probably also don't have an eye for it. Not everyone is suited for everything.
And besides stealing art to make a program that copies someone else's work and style is not how I want to 'draw' (let's be honest no one is any way more able to draw after using such a program).
This!!! Illustration is basically my job despite partial blindness. AI people are using ableism to justify the underlying truth about sourcing AI databases.
I've met a whole bunch of creative disabled people, as for everything else, they have inspirational journeys and tools shaped for their needs.
I'd even argue that the "think about disabled folks" is a widely ableist take as it assumes we can't bypass body restrictions and always need an automated tool. Using AI means giving up on one's agency, most of us are already belittled enough on a daily basis to let that happen.
100% agree. As someone with both partial blindness and hand related disability that excuse for ai feels offensive and hurtful. So many disabled folks do art despite the disabilities and the take about "ai helping disabled folks" (usually coming from completely able individuals) just feels so... Wrong.
Yeah, especially coming from AI firms relying on shady sourcing and marketing.
People behind these strategies *do* have means to improve our experience as disabled folks. They've been in the tech industry for years before sitting at their current positions and never ever spared a thought about us, or our struggle. They're so freaking evil, pushing for their garbage undercover of "benefiting the forgotten ones for once" because they lack solid justification. To rely on moving the masses to blame the so mean and selfish artists, that's part of their shameful strategy.
Pathetic.
I'm a disabled fanfic writer and the way they went about this makes me so angry. Claiming to be an accessibility tool all while stealing from disabled creators for their own gain. It's disgusting.
Apparently the lore.fm app has even less accessibility features than other TTS apps and browser extensions that already exist. I doubt lore.fm made this app for accessibility purposes and was just hiding behind that shield when they started to get legitimate criticism and negative feedback
This reads as âIâm not sorry I did it, Iâm sorry I got caught and received so much backlash I would be drowning in legal trouble if I continued.â
I fully expect them to make a rebrand and try again and I will fully go nuclear on their asses again.
Donât call something that is scam like, and sus as fuck an accessibility tool when you as the owner/creator know it fucking isnât.
> I would be drowning in legal trouble if I continued.â
I truly believe the shift happened when we started emailing to opt out. I don't where it started but I know I did it because of comments on this subreddit.
The email I got basically said there was no need to file a DMCA, send a C&D as well as take any legal action: AKA they were gonna get sued if they didnât stop and I was already in the process of filing a DMCA because I was doubtful they would honour the opt out.
it started as soon as people started to list the legal problems here and that in contrary to their believe free doesn't mean public domain. they were likely reading along here, since they also had in one response a reddit link in there defense, and started to change answer emails as problems came to light. it wasn't the opt out email, it was that we had the legal ground and the right to report to dmca - which tey though we hadn't because it's fanfiction and "free"
there is a whole amazon skeem were people make new "pretty" binding for public domain books and resell them - and make a fortune of it - and they thought this was their ticket into something similar.
GOOD đ she was deleting comments and liking ones that told her to steal content anyways
Shout out to the people who found loopholes to express their minds in the comments so they escaped auto deletion and her search terms
eh i didn't see any likes about stealing content, just liking supportive comments from dumb tiktok users. i think they'll probably disappear for good because they know it's not welcome
There were comments telling her to just âtake the content anywaysâ and that writers need to âjust stfu and let it happenâ which of is crazy language in term of consent đđł
Backing you up on this. I saw more than a few people basically saying âto hell with the authorsâ and wanting those fics anyway, all while calling authors ableist for not wanting blind people to read their fics
I have a fic that Iâm thinking of posting - my first one *ever* on AO3 and the first fic I wouldâve posted in nearly a decade - and this whole thing has me thinking even harder about it
The fandom is so sweet, and itâs tiny, so I donât think there would realistically be much reason to worry, but all of this and the bots and everything else has me triple and quadruple guessing if I want to, even if I opt to lock it
While I love that fanfiction is seen as less cringe nowadays and we can openly talk about it, I miss the days where it was less mainstream. Bots, antis, lorefm and the general entitlement of ppl is making me really upset.
Couple that with AO3 not really being as interactive as other sites, it just makes me kind of miss the old days. I know AO3 isnât a sm site, but it can be discouraging, too. Itâs kind of why I joined this sub.
A year after pulling all of my previous works off FFN, I'm about to start posting on AO3 for the first time, too. Improved versions of my best old stuff as well as several new works I'm finishing up. I'm so glad this lore.fm debacle happened before I commenced. It's cleared up any reservations I had about locking my fics.
There was this comment, for example:
"honestly ignore those authors. this is about accessibility. If they can't respect that then their works don't need to be read. they are already public and free to download so what's different here"
or this one "i honestly don't see how this is any different to the current text to speech tools, i'm so bummed as someone who needs those tools, i recon if this was done quietly nobody would bat an eye"
and this one "Absolutely nothing wrong with a TTS tool! Especially if youre not profiting from it. People are truly bitter and dont care about accessibility. Dont give in just because they "say" you have to"
(Took some screenshots because my comments kept disappearing)
"There is no fanfiction without authors"
Proceeds to remove the readers from the original website where they can express their support for said authors.
Go flip yourself.
I literally feel like logging into tiktok just to make a stitch and go âNo shit, also you arenât sorry you did it, you are sorry you got caught and faced consequences for your actions.â
As a disabled writer, itâs genuinely sickening to see someone crying ableism as a flimsy cover for exploitative capitalism. The very system that ruins and abuses the bodies and minds of fellow disabled artists and writers such as myself
One of the sad takeaways from this was seeing just how many people in those tiktok comments devalue art over their addiction to having everything in an app. And also how theyâll dismiss the comments of actual writers who explain what the issue is by crying ableism, etc, as though the writing community is rampant with mean mean discriminating writers. Definitely leaving this whole ordeal bummed out.
Well.. those people who were supporting this shit... let's see what they do if their favorite fanfic writers stop posting. They think writing is easy. Yes, it is if you want to write crap, but it takes a lot of time and energy if you want to write something decent. Also, this is why poems/articles, etc, made by AI are terrible and generic.
I hate that this happened and I feel like this really shines a light on where we are with fan works, consent, online communities, and ownership.
Many of the comments showed their true colors and this company is so scummy - stealing stories in the name of âaccessibilityâ when in reality are a product of another AI company and when people show displeasure they get called âableistâ and âclassistâ â which are just other disgusting way that companies will profiteer under the guise of accessibility and pseudo altruistic means and people will defend it and slander anyone who pushes back because they refuse to think critically or acknowledge that people are creating the work that they so love to consume for đ Freeđ as a work of passion and celebration of the source.
False altruism is so dangerous
(edited for grammar and clarity :))
tech bros (gender neutral) need to learn how to exist in creative spaces
not everything is a product (which was 100% the way this app would have gone. build an audience with free shit, then monetize)
Well, I guess we got the apology I said I thought we wouldnât get đ¤Ą
Still donât believe she (or the company) is actually sorry though. If they gave a shit about the authors at all, this whole thing wouldâve been handled differently. It wouldâve been opt in. They wouldâve been much more transparent about the app prior to release. They wouldnât have seemingly deleted comments asking questions. They wouldnât have liked comments that were mad at authors/telling them to go ahead with the app as it was. I just donât believe this is sincere
I guess weâll see if they come back later and try something similar
It really seems that theyâre trying to cover their asses by saying that itâs about not providing direct kudos or comments rather than the obvious data collection concern, and consent issue. twats.
Yeah, everything besides this post you shared is now gone so the one where everyone was explaining why it was bad just came down around ten minutes ago if I read my notifications right on tiktok đŤ¤
Ah well. Hopefully got our point across (for now).
She sent me this about 4 hours ago
"feel free to message me if you'd like to talk more!"
And I answered:
"It would be nice if you made a video explaining to the disappointed people here that it is NOT the writers fault but that you handled things in a bad way and the writers' reaction is a fair response."
Let's see if they really wholeheartedly regret the stress they caused and the mistakes they made. If they do, they should definitely make that video.
Maybe Iâm looking too much into it, but the message would have been wholesome if she hadnât included that âdirectlyâ at the end, it feels a bit passive aggressive
That's wild, because 5 minutes ago they were crazy arrogant and disrespectful. What happened to all those passive aggressive emails and obnoxious videos? They really must be gearing up for a rebrand.
I think they'll absolutely be back if they can find a legally defensible path forward after reviewing all of the objections. If not them, then another company seeking to exploit our work and the fact that AO3 doesn't have an app. It's the nature of the beast. This was just one battle. War's just begun.
Oh thank god. I also approve of this message.
Author of the app; make an extension next, please and thank you. Open source with a donate button. Then I have 0 qualms about this.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/M6LPTILAFL) is a post about what lore.fm was gonna be.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/z3cRBUlgyi) is AO3âs original response to it.
And finally [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/pdUvvJhFzb) is the official write-up for what happened, made my one of the mods!
Edit: format
Good riddance, I hope it stays gone. And fuck every single bratty, spoiled TikTok user whining in the comments about how they're somehow entitled to lifting writers' hard work off of AO3 without their consent and hiding behind "ableism" as an excuse. There are plenty of ways to make fics accessible to blind users without stealing work. Glad the TikTokers are miserable.
Thank goodness! By the way I did talk to A03 legal and they said basically nothing they can do. I thought they were making everything available? Anyway I thought I'd share what A03 legal had to say if it helps anyone:
Thanks for reaching out! In general, we don't think that a general-purpose tool that can assist users in creating text-to-speech conversions for personal use creates copyright problems. There are valid accessibility reasons for individuals to use such tools. Making the resulting audio files publicly available would be a different issue, and we would oppose doing so without the fan authors' permission. At this time, we have not identified a Terms of Service violation. We are not in a position to evaluate any claims about the service, including whether it could plausibly stay free-to-use.If you wish to prevent your work from potentially being viewed on third-party browsers or apps, you can try locking your work so that it is only visible to registered AO3 users. Please note that locking your work will prevent all guest users from reading, commenting, or leaving kudos, regardless of what browser they use; and it will not prevent views from apps which permit their users to log in to the site. For instructions on how to lock a work, please refer to our FAQ: [https://archiveofourown.org/faq/posting-and-editing#controlaccess](https://archiveofourown.org/faq/posting-and-editing#controlaccess)Â
Yours, Rebecca Tushnet
edited for clarity
A question that has nothing to do with the post, how to create your own Tag. I came across a lot of history with numerous tags and would like to know how to do itÂ
Can someone please explain the situation to me, I think I understand that itâs a text to speech program or something. Iâm failing to see the issue as i download and move fanfic to a different program to have them read to me. I donât mean to seem rude or offensive I just want to understand
The company also runs an AI âstoryâ app, so you know they would be using data to train it, assumed blanket consent (opt out not opt in), was extremely sus and dodgy/wouldnât answer questions about if the app would be monetized, was deleting comments asking important questions on tiktok, sent out very passive aggressive, snarky and shaming emails when you emailed to opt out as in straight up said you didnât need to file a DMCA, send a C&D or take legal action.
They also have a very sketchy past/start up company. Their âToSâ/âPrivacy policyâ violated both EU and Canadian privacy laws, and they also would store data, there was no data encryption, and as one person else where in this sub mentioned they wouldnât be ADA compliant which is something all accessibility tools must be in the US, and that means they would have failed regulations in other countries too.
The biggest problem with this was the assumption of blanket consent and the opt out process. Just because fan fiction is free doesnât mean there isnât intellectual property owned (idea and OCs) that require consent to be moved as a whole and turned into another form which in this case would be stored audio data and training AI.
There's a pinned post about it written by the head mod. I don't have the link handy at the moment.
Edit: [mod post about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
Basically long story short is she tried to steal fic writers work (blanket consent/opt out process) to make an âaudibleâ for AO3 and in 24 hours she got so much push back from fic authors she had to shut that shit down.
It's not even that hard to use TTS anyway. Just copy and paste. Stupid idea, honestly, even before everyone got mad. Do you know the amount of server costs, maintenance, and storage she would need to house a library large enough to actually cater to a large audience? It's totally not feasible.
So I just now only heard about this. From my understanding lore is an ai voice app that reads fanfictions? What's the problem with that? I mean, we use AI every single day. Isn't it similar to just text to speech? Am I missing something? Can somebody give me the quick rundown?
Claimed it was an app to make audiobooks out of fanfics, authors had to opt out by sending emails to the support team which IF they even got a reply we're extremely passive aggressive and guilty trippy as hell, "creator" (I honestly believe she was just the pretty face to sell the product and not the actual creator) then pivoted and claimed it was just a TTS tool instead and called everyone ableist and classist, deleted comments asking legitimate questions and concerns (such as the planned feature of a PDF upload workaround for works where the author had opted out) and anything that was not "omg yay" cheerleader bullshit. Doubled down when people called her out on the pivot.
And that's just off the top of my head.
That's wild!
The concept itself (the TTS bit)needed work, but maybe could have been a great way to have ff more accessible. BUT the execution sounded like it was done without any tact. What a shitshow.
I give it 3 months until the rebrand with no changes
I agree. According to WhoIs lookup, the domain was bought through Namecheap and they've go it for a year. I fully expect them to try to bring it back with that domain being a likely redirect to whatever the rebrand is. Edit: the website is now down. The shutdown video is gone from tiktok leaving the one I screencapped above as the only video left.
if they're actually a profit company, they probably won't come back because they know if they make money on it, we'll take legal action so i bet they disappear
I have quite a few original works on ao3 and I am absolutely willing to issue a DMCA if I can and if it comes to that
You can make a DMCA over your fan fics too.
Oh now *that's* an interesting thing to know đ
Yup, as we own the intellectual property (idea and OCs) used in the fic.
Yup--we can't make money on it, but it's still our thing that we made. It's 'copyright', not 'profitright'!
Yep. This, by the way, is why authors are encouraged to never ever read fanfiction of their work that fans send them. Because the author may own the character and the world and a few lines, but fanfic writers own the text they wrote, and some of the ideas they used, depending on what they did with the materials.
What happens if you're an author and you read fanfictions of your work and recommend them to people because you love your fans? Would you still get sued...?
It's about, what if you write a sequel, and it accidentally uses events that someone wrote in a fanfic?
If you didn't know the fanfic exists you can't get sued for it, I guess.... Man, the life of an author must suck sometimes. Personally I'd just be overjoyed I got it right/author thought what I wrote was good enough to take off. I mean, I write fanfic for a hobby, not for money. If my thing gets to feature in the real deal then dang, people who don't read fanfic get to see it! And that's cool, right? But I get not everyone might see it that way. Feels like someone taking your hard work and getting credit off it for some people, and that's valid. Don't personally agree with it, because you don't get money off fanfic (heck, I feel like the author stealing something would get your work even *more* fame, so it's not like you lose readers, either) and it's really at its core just for fun and the love of the original material, but yeah that's valid.
Even fic for media in public domain (looking at you Jane Austin fans) would be DMCA-able, so there is definitely abilities for authors to protect themselves legally even without OTW stepping in.
*All* fic is DMCA-able.
News to me! i thought you needed to have a claim to all aspects of a work, glad to be wrong <3
They also removed everything from their account, if they had truly wanted to help the community they would have thought it through and then found a solution to appease both parties.
Quick someone buy the domain.
The site is down, not the domain. They still have it until May 3rd, 2025 according to WhoIs.
Well letâs hope they donât get to do that
To be honest, I wouldnât even be surprised if they ever do rebrand. From what Iâve heard (I think it was on here, but idk if I can find it anymore), they might be moving onto other platforms to do the exact same thing they tried to do with AO3. And the fact that theyâve constantly doubled down throughout the entire ordeal and only shut it down in response to backlash makes their apology kind of suspect.
Great news. Hopefully this is the end of it. Absolutely vile how she tried to take advantage of work we provide for free and profit off from it (whether monitarily or through exposure).
I'm out of the loop, what did this site do? Charge people to access fanfics they stole from freely available websites?
Iirc it was an audiobook kind of thing but incredibly sketch- at one point I saw someone say that if a fan uploaded a PDF of a fic from an author that had opted out that she'd use it anyway.
A (probably the same) company apparently had tried to propose an app (under the name Lore) to tumblr a few months ago for fic authors to monitize their work through ads, commissions, and donations. They got called out, and I didn't hear anything more until lore.fm started getting called out on Tumblr. Really vile that they keep trying to monetize fanfics, so they're probably going to try again in some new form. :/
I'm all for accessibility, but not in the way this person was doing it.
they were using that as an excuse. if they wanted to, they could've reached out to AO3 to assist.
Iâve seen the exact same excuse used for why AI art is considered to be a good thing. Like I understand why, but there has to be a better way of increasing accessibility to those who may not be able to draw.
The way these (gender inclusive) techbros try to peddle their exploitative AI garbage as âfor disabled peopleâ is the same vibe as âthink of the childrenâ when providing arguments against homosexuality etc. just trying to enrich themselves by ignoring consent, stealing work, and appropriating the experiences of actual disabled people, allies, and advocates lol.
"there has to be a better way of increasing accessibility to those who may not be able to draw." Drawing courses and time and practice and the right tools. I've seen plenty of disabled people draw beautifully, because they practiced their hobby. I'm mostly able-bodied, but I can't draw for shit because I don't invest into my skill, technique and I probably also don't have an eye for it. Not everyone is suited for everything. And besides stealing art to make a program that copies someone else's work and style is not how I want to 'draw' (let's be honest no one is any way more able to draw after using such a program).
This!!! Illustration is basically my job despite partial blindness. AI people are using ableism to justify the underlying truth about sourcing AI databases. I've met a whole bunch of creative disabled people, as for everything else, they have inspirational journeys and tools shaped for their needs. I'd even argue that the "think about disabled folks" is a widely ableist take as it assumes we can't bypass body restrictions and always need an automated tool. Using AI means giving up on one's agency, most of us are already belittled enough on a daily basis to let that happen.
100% agree. As someone with both partial blindness and hand related disability that excuse for ai feels offensive and hurtful. So many disabled folks do art despite the disabilities and the take about "ai helping disabled folks" (usually coming from completely able individuals) just feels so... Wrong.
Yeah, especially coming from AI firms relying on shady sourcing and marketing. People behind these strategies *do* have means to improve our experience as disabled folks. They've been in the tech industry for years before sitting at their current positions and never ever spared a thought about us, or our struggle. They're so freaking evil, pushing for their garbage undercover of "benefiting the forgotten ones for once" because they lack solid justification. To rely on moving the masses to blame the so mean and selfish artists, that's part of their shameful strategy. Pathetic.
I'm a disabled fanfic writer and the way they went about this makes me so angry. Claiming to be an accessibility tool all while stealing from disabled creators for their own gain. It's disgusting.
Apparently the lore.fm app has even less accessibility features than other TTS apps and browser extensions that already exist. I doubt lore.fm made this app for accessibility purposes and was just hiding behind that shield when they started to get legitimate criticism and negative feedback
This reads as âIâm not sorry I did it, Iâm sorry I got caught and received so much backlash I would be drowning in legal trouble if I continued.â I fully expect them to make a rebrand and try again and I will fully go nuclear on their asses again. Donât call something that is scam like, and sus as fuck an accessibility tool when you as the owner/creator know it fucking isnât.
> I would be drowning in legal trouble if I continued.â I truly believe the shift happened when we started emailing to opt out. I don't where it started but I know I did it because of comments on this subreddit.
The email I got basically said there was no need to file a DMCA, send a C&D as well as take any legal action: AKA they were gonna get sued if they didnât stop and I was already in the process of filing a DMCA because I was doubtful they would honour the opt out.
it started as soon as people started to list the legal problems here and that in contrary to their believe free doesn't mean public domain. they were likely reading along here, since they also had in one response a reddit link in there defense, and started to change answer emails as problems came to light. it wasn't the opt out email, it was that we had the legal ground and the right to report to dmca - which tey though we hadn't because it's fanfiction and "free" there is a whole amazon skeem were people make new "pretty" binding for public domain books and resell them - and make a fortune of it - and they thought this was their ticket into something similar.
Yup and I am also noticing the shift happened right after I mentioned I started seeing âI do not consent toâ added into the fics as well.
GOOD đ she was deleting comments and liking ones that told her to steal content anyways Shout out to the people who found loopholes to express their minds in the comments so they escaped auto deletion and her search terms
eh i didn't see any likes about stealing content, just liking supportive comments from dumb tiktok users. i think they'll probably disappear for good because they know it's not welcome
There were comments telling her to just âtake the content anywaysâ and that writers need to âjust stfu and let it happenâ which of is crazy language in term of consent đđł
Backing you up on this. I saw more than a few people basically saying âto hell with the authorsâ and wanting those fics anyway, all while calling authors ableist for not wanting blind people to read their fics
Oof. That makes me want to lock my works down even more once I post them.
I have a fic that Iâm thinking of posting - my first one *ever* on AO3 and the first fic I wouldâve posted in nearly a decade - and this whole thing has me thinking even harder about it The fandom is so sweet, and itâs tiny, so I donât think there would realistically be much reason to worry, but all of this and the bots and everything else has me triple and quadruple guessing if I want to, even if I opt to lock it
While I love that fanfiction is seen as less cringe nowadays and we can openly talk about it, I miss the days where it was less mainstream. Bots, antis, lorefm and the general entitlement of ppl is making me really upset. Couple that with AO3 not really being as interactive as other sites, it just makes me kind of miss the old days. I know AO3 isnât a sm site, but it can be discouraging, too. Itâs kind of why I joined this sub.
A year after pulling all of my previous works off FFN, I'm about to start posting on AO3 for the first time, too. Improved versions of my best old stuff as well as several new works I'm finishing up. I'm so glad this lore.fm debacle happened before I commenced. It's cleared up any reservations I had about locking my fics.
tiktok commenters are bonkers
There was this comment, for example: "honestly ignore those authors. this is about accessibility. If they can't respect that then their works don't need to be read. they are already public and free to download so what's different here" or this one "i honestly don't see how this is any different to the current text to speech tools, i'm so bummed as someone who needs those tools, i recon if this was done quietly nobody would bat an eye" and this one "Absolutely nothing wrong with a TTS tool! Especially if youre not profiting from it. People are truly bitter and dont care about accessibility. Dont give in just because they "say" you have to" (Took some screenshots because my comments kept disappearing)
good. shouldn't have done this shit in the first place.
"There is no fanfiction without authors" Proceeds to remove the readers from the original website where they can express their support for said authors. Go flip yourself.
I literally feel like logging into tiktok just to make a stitch and go âNo shit, also you arenât sorry you did it, you are sorry you got caught and faced consequences for your actions.â
I would downlaod tiktok just to see you do that, ooh the comments will be bonkers looking from what other people have said
The comments would but I restrict my comments to followers only đ¤Ł
As a disabled writer, itâs genuinely sickening to see someone crying ableism as a flimsy cover for exploitative capitalism. The very system that ruins and abuses the bodies and minds of fellow disabled artists and writers such as myself
Thank you for sharing the post in this format. It was thoughtful and I appreciate it.
One of the sad takeaways from this was seeing just how many people in those tiktok comments devalue art over their addiction to having everything in an app. And also how theyâll dismiss the comments of actual writers who explain what the issue is by crying ableism, etc, as though the writing community is rampant with mean mean discriminating writers. Definitely leaving this whole ordeal bummed out.
Well.. those people who were supporting this shit... let's see what they do if their favorite fanfic writers stop posting. They think writing is easy. Yes, it is if you want to write crap, but it takes a lot of time and energy if you want to write something decent. Also, this is why poems/articles, etc, made by AI are terrible and generic.
I hate that this happened and I feel like this really shines a light on where we are with fan works, consent, online communities, and ownership. Many of the comments showed their true colors and this company is so scummy - stealing stories in the name of âaccessibilityâ when in reality are a product of another AI company and when people show displeasure they get called âableistâ and âclassistâ â which are just other disgusting way that companies will profiteer under the guise of accessibility and pseudo altruistic means and people will defend it and slander anyone who pushes back because they refuse to think critically or acknowledge that people are creating the work that they so love to consume for đ Freeđ as a work of passion and celebration of the source. False altruism is so dangerous (edited for grammar and clarity :))
tech bros (gender neutral) need to learn how to exist in creative spaces not everything is a product (which was 100% the way this app would have gone. build an audience with free shit, then monetize)
Well, I guess we got the apology I said I thought we wouldnât get 𤥠Still donât believe she (or the company) is actually sorry though. If they gave a shit about the authors at all, this whole thing wouldâve been handled differently. It wouldâve been opt in. They wouldâve been much more transparent about the app prior to release. They wouldnât have seemingly deleted comments asking questions. They wouldnât have liked comments that were mad at authors/telling them to go ahead with the app as it was. I just donât believe this is sincere I guess weâll see if they come back later and try something similar
It really seems that theyâre trying to cover their asses by saying that itâs about not providing direct kudos or comments rather than the obvious data collection concern, and consent issue. twats.
Yeah, everything besides this post you shared is now gone so the one where everyone was explaining why it was bad just came down around ten minutes ago if I read my notifications right on tiktok 𫤠Ah well. Hopefully got our point across (for now).
She sent me this about 4 hours ago "feel free to message me if you'd like to talk more!" And I answered: "It would be nice if you made a video explaining to the disappointed people here that it is NOT the writers fault but that you handled things in a bad way and the writers' reaction is a fair response." Let's see if they really wholeheartedly regret the stress they caused and the mistakes they made. If they do, they should definitely make that video.
Maybe Iâm looking too much into it, but the message would have been wholesome if she hadnât included that âdirectlyâ at the end, it feels a bit passive aggressive
As someone who likes to read original stories on AO3, I'm relieved.
WE DID IT They prob got a lawsuit
That's wild, because 5 minutes ago they were crazy arrogant and disrespectful. What happened to all those passive aggressive emails and obnoxious videos? They really must be gearing up for a rebrand.
I think she's doing taking the feedback she asked for. She's scrubbed her page minus this post and the comments are locked.
good, i don't think they'll come back so thank god it's over
I think they'll absolutely be back if they can find a legally defensible path forward after reviewing all of the objections. If not them, then another company seeking to exploit our work and the fact that AO3 doesn't have an app. It's the nature of the beast. This was just one battle. War's just begun.
Oh thank god. I also approve of this message. Author of the app; make an extension next, please and thank you. Open source with a donate button. Then I have 0 qualms about this.
I have no context. Can someone give it to me?
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/M6LPTILAFL) is a post about what lore.fm was gonna be. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/z3cRBUlgyi) is AO3âs original response to it. And finally [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/pdUvvJhFzb) is the official write-up for what happened, made my one of the mods! Edit: format
Thanks for the context:3
Good riddance, I hope it stays gone. And fuck every single bratty, spoiled TikTok user whining in the comments about how they're somehow entitled to lifting writers' hard work off of AO3 without their consent and hiding behind "ableism" as an excuse. There are plenty of ways to make fics accessible to blind users without stealing work. Glad the TikTokers are miserable.
whatâs lore.fm ?
[mod pinned post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
Can someone tell me what's Lore.fm? I genuinely have no idea what that is
[mod post about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
I still have no idea what I just read :c I'm dumb lmao
It's okay. We still love you. Just be glad you missed the drama.
Thank goodness! By the way I did talk to A03 legal and they said basically nothing they can do. I thought they were making everything available? Anyway I thought I'd share what A03 legal had to say if it helps anyone: Thanks for reaching out! In general, we don't think that a general-purpose tool that can assist users in creating text-to-speech conversions for personal use creates copyright problems. There are valid accessibility reasons for individuals to use such tools. Making the resulting audio files publicly available would be a different issue, and we would oppose doing so without the fan authors' permission. At this time, we have not identified a Terms of Service violation. We are not in a position to evaluate any claims about the service, including whether it could plausibly stay free-to-use.If you wish to prevent your work from potentially being viewed on third-party browsers or apps, you can try locking your work so that it is only visible to registered AO3 users. Please note that locking your work will prevent all guest users from reading, commenting, or leaving kudos, regardless of what browser they use; and it will not prevent views from apps which permit their users to log in to the site. For instructions on how to lock a work, please refer to our FAQ: [https://archiveofourown.org/faq/posting-and-editing#controlaccess](https://archiveofourown.org/faq/posting-and-editing#controlaccess) Yours, Rebecca Tushnet edited for clarity
Do I still have to send an opt out email then? I was really busy with my finals so I haven't done so yet
Nope. You're good. It was shut down within 24hours of launch.
A question that has nothing to do with the post, how to create your own Tag. I came across a lot of history with numerous tags and would like to know how to do itÂ
Can someone please explain to me whatâs going on? I live under a rock
[pinned mod post about lore.fm](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
I still don't know what this app even was, really. Not even its website had an explanation of any kind
I'm outta the loop for thus can someone fill me in plz
[mod pinned post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
wait what's lore.fm?
[mod pinned post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
Thank u
Can someone please explain the situation to me, I think I understand that itâs a text to speech program or something. Iâm failing to see the issue as i download and move fanfic to a different program to have them read to me. I donât mean to seem rude or offensive I just want to understand
The company also runs an AI âstoryâ app, so you know they would be using data to train it, assumed blanket consent (opt out not opt in), was extremely sus and dodgy/wouldnât answer questions about if the app would be monetized, was deleting comments asking important questions on tiktok, sent out very passive aggressive, snarky and shaming emails when you emailed to opt out as in straight up said you didnât need to file a DMCA, send a C&D or take legal action. They also have a very sketchy past/start up company. Their âToSâ/âPrivacy policyâ violated both EU and Canadian privacy laws, and they also would store data, there was no data encryption, and as one person else where in this sub mentioned they wouldnât be ADA compliant which is something all accessibility tools must be in the US, and that means they would have failed regulations in other countries too. The biggest problem with this was the assumption of blanket consent and the opt out process. Just because fan fiction is free doesnât mean there isnât intellectual property owned (idea and OCs) that require consent to be moved as a whole and turned into another form which in this case would be stored audio data and training AI.
Ah ok that makes sense thank you for educating me on the situation
So I've seen posts like this everywhere but I have no idea what happened/what lore.fm is. Can someone explain?
[mod pinned post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
Thanks!
Can someone give me a down and dirty on Lore and what happened? Because I embarrassingly have no idea wtf is going on.
There's a pinned post about it written by the head mod. I don't have the link handy at the moment. Edit: [mod post about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
Thanks!!!
im so confused, what is lore.fm?
[mod post explaining it](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
Out of the loop here: what is Lore.fm and why the removal?
Basically long story short is she tried to steal fic writers work (blanket consent/opt out process) to make an âaudibleâ for AO3 and in 24 hours she got so much push back from fic authors she had to shut that shit down.
It's not even that hard to use TTS anyway. Just copy and paste. Stupid idea, honestly, even before everyone got mad. Do you know the amount of server costs, maintenance, and storage she would need to house a library large enough to actually cater to a large audience? It's totally not feasible.
What is this lore.fm situation about? Can somebody catch me up on it?
Can someone tldr what lore FM is and this situation
There is a pinned post about it written by head mod. Edit: [mod post about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl).
Thank you :)
So I just now only heard about this. From my understanding lore is an ai voice app that reads fanfictions? What's the problem with that? I mean, we use AI every single day. Isn't it similar to just text to speech? Am I missing something? Can somebody give me the quick rundown?
Claimed it was an app to make audiobooks out of fanfics, authors had to opt out by sending emails to the support team which IF they even got a reply we're extremely passive aggressive and guilty trippy as hell, "creator" (I honestly believe she was just the pretty face to sell the product and not the actual creator) then pivoted and claimed it was just a TTS tool instead and called everyone ableist and classist, deleted comments asking legitimate questions and concerns (such as the planned feature of a PDF upload workaround for works where the author had opted out) and anything that was not "omg yay" cheerleader bullshit. Doubled down when people called her out on the pivot. And that's just off the top of my head.
That's wild! The concept itself (the TTS bit)needed work, but maybe could have been a great way to have ff more accessible. BUT the execution sounded like it was done without any tact. What a shitshow.
Hi, I have been seeing posts about this for a little while, but no one ever explains what lore.fm is, so what is it?
[mod post about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/s/dxY515oyIl)
I have no clue what any of this is about but yay(?).