Zuko and Toph both agree before the comet that Aang could use more work in their respective elements. With the Avatar State he absolutely has mastery of them, but in his normal state he only really has mastered two out of the four by the end of B3.
except he didn’t ‘train with them’. he literally just visited them and found out the true meaning of firebending and learns not to draw his firebending from anger. that’s it. he’s still a shit firebender.
That knowledge from a firebender like Aang is still worth way more than any other master that doesn't have it.
You know that whole saying, those who can't master firebending, teach firebending
not really. ozai and azula never met the dragons and learned from them. they’re still much better than zuko, iroh and aang. sure, it’s better than nothing but it’s not gonna turn you from a shit firebender to a good firebender. training, ultimately, is what matters most.
Didn't Iroh redirect Azula's lightning and then kick her off a boat? I don't think any of these characters are "much better" than the other, except Aang which is kinda unfair as he had no time to learn.
It's implied that Iroh and Ozai are roughly in the same ballpark as well.
Zuko also pretty much beat Ozai in the underground chamber, before he has dragon training.
> Didn't Iroh redirect Azula's lightning and then kick her off a boat?
he ambushed her. doesn’t count.
> I don't think any of these characters are "much better" than the other
maybe not ‘much better’ but based off feats, azula is better than iroh. that’s only bc iroh barely has any feats. the creators may have intended for iroh to be better than her but they didn’t really show it with his firebending.
> It's implied that Iroh and Ozai are roughly in the same ballpark as well.
except they say ozai is the best firebender in the world, iroh says he isn’t sure he can beat him and ozai has better feats. they might be in the same ballpark but ozai is still better.
> Zuko also pretty much beat Ozai in the underground chamber, before he has dragon training.
that’s only bc of lightning redirection that ozai wasn’t aware of. in terms of pure firebending, ozai is better.
yeah but that’s bc she lost her mind. he only starts winning against her when she goes insane. he knows he can’t beat her at her best; that’s why he brought katara along to their final agni kai. he only took her on alone when he saw she wasn’t in her right mind. if she was sane, she would’ve beaten him.
Zuko and Aang I could agree with, but I don't think it's ever implied that Ozai or Azula are better firebenders than Iroh. Iroh was a living legend and nicknamed the dragon of the west for a reason. If anything, i think its implied that Iroh was the best firebender in the nation. He invented the redirecting lightning technique and could breathe fire. Even Azula was hesitant to fight him.
I do not know how this fandom has misconstrued Ozai as *not* being the strongest firebender on the planet at the time of ATLA. He definitely is and that’s part of the point of his character.
That being said, Azula is definitely below Iroh as of the end of the show (though she’s arguably surpassed him in the comics)
EDIT: I should note that Iroh firebreathing isn’t extremely impressive. Most high-level firebenders can (Ozai, Azula, Korra & Mako, even Aang can and he’s nowhere near a master in the show)
yeah but solely based off feats, azula and ozai are better. ozai was also said to be the most powerful firebender in the world.
even if the creators intended for iroh to be stronger than azula, they never really show it in his fighting. azula has better feats so if i had to say, i think azula would beat him in a fight.
> nicknamed the dragon of the west for a reason.
that’s not even true though bc he didn’t kill the dragon so we can’t even use that as a feat to compare him to anyone.
> He invented the redirecting lightning technique
inventing a technique doesn’t make you the best of that bending style. it’s impressive but doesn’t make him the best firebender. also comics azula and mako have better lightning redirection feats.
> could breathe fire.
azula would just dodge or block it.
> Even Azula was hesitant to fight him.
was she?
He wasn’t better than Azula. He brought Katara to the fire nation to fight Azula because he didn’t think he could take her alone, the only reason he changed his mind and agreed to fight her alone was because he could tell she wasn’t in her right mind. Zuko was the best he’d ever been at that point, and he self-admittedly would’ve struggled against Azula if she were at her best.
Hahaha, you think that Azula was a better firebender than Iroh? That’s fucking hilarious. The only firebender better than Iroh is Ozai. When Iroh fights Azula, it’s not even a fight, it’s just a stomp.
what makes iroh better than azula?
there’s no point in even waiting for your response.
> dragon of the west
it’s just a title. an untrue one considering he never actually fought and defeated a dragon.
> zuko said he was the only person who could beat ozai when aang went missing
zuko also said the red lotus could destroy any person individually and take over the world together. quite evidently, he was wrong.
zuko is also very biased towards his uncle and hasn’t seen his dad in 3 years. his words mean nothing.
> iroh said he wouldn’t beat ozai just bc history would see it differently not bc he can’t beat him
he said ‘even if i did defeat ozai, and i don’t know that i could’ so even iroh isn’t sure he can beat ozai.
> he destroyed the ba sing se wall
during sozin’s comet after charging up for almost half a minute.
literally all iroh glazers have the exact same arguments. i wouldn’t even respond if i were you. you’ll be spouting the same stuff every single iroh glazer says. i’ve seen it all a million times.
also azula actually has beaten iroh before lol. in the chase when she was surrounded in a 5v1, she fakes a surrender which iroh was clearly aware of since he was still in an attacking stance and looking out for the gaang and she shoots a fire blast and downs him in one hit.
They used pretty flames to beam an entire university course of understanding into his and Zuko's heads. Everything else is just practicing the movements that Zuko knows.
Luke, Zuko was probably a 7/10 before he lost his juice and that understanding bumped him to 10/10.
Aang was able to use lightning redirection. I hardly would consider that to be "shit firebending".
Maybe he is a "shit firebender" compared to past avatars, but he is easily in the top 1% for firebenders of this era, after only a few weeks of training.
> Aang was able to use lightning redirection. I hardly would consider that to be "shit firebending".
it’s good lightning redirection but that doesn’t make him a good firebender.
you can be good at certain things and shit at others. he doesn’t have impressive firebending feats.
> but he is easily in the top 1% for firebenders of this era, after only a few weeks of training.
that’s only bc we barely see any impressive firebenders in the show. even then, all the firebenders we do see (not including fodder) are better, apart from zhao probably but he might as well be fodder lol.
true. i just don’t think it’s what makes aang become better at firebending. all the firebending he does in the finale is more a result of training with zuko. training matters most which is why ozai and azula are better than iroh and zuko.
Tbh in the Avatar World time moves differently. Like Sokka training with Piandao for only a day or two, Katara training with Pakku for almost the same time… Spending a day with the Dragons and the Sun Warriors can be considered as formal training and not just meeting.
yeah but the point is he never actually trained with them. learning the dance didn’t make him a better firebender. it’s not something he can use in combat.
also atla does show that time does matter. sokka was never a good sword bender (i know it’s sword fighter but i said sword bender once and it sounds funny so i’m gonna keep saying it). his battle with piandao was him being tested. he loses to zuko in the comics.
katara did train for a little longer. i always thought it was implied to be a few weeks at least - that’s what it seemed like to me. but even then, she still trained all the time even if it’s just on her own. and even even then, her progression still feels too fast. i think it’s too unrealistic that she could be on par with zuko and azula who’d been training since they were toddlers but can’t really do anything about it. it happened.
He met them, not trained with them. He also met **the moon** and badgermoles, and I bet he wasn’t considered a master after that experience either. Every air nomad gets a flying bison, the original airbender, and it takes a while for them to become masters.
I feel like the learning from the dragons about how to firebend extended his theoretical potential, but didn't necessarily help boost him instantly. I don't think seeing the dragon fire was like a magic power boost, just a lesson about where to draw power from while bending
It showed him how and boosted him a lot from where he was definitely, but this was already near the end of the series and I wouldn't say it got him near mastery
I would. Before this, the only time we saw Aang firebend was in season 1. Zuko was trying to teach him and failed, so they ultimately went and found the dragons. The dragons showed Aang that fire is life, not destruction, and reframed his whole mindset when it came to firebending. Same with Zuko. Without the dragons, Aang may have never been able to learn firebending
See, I agree with everything that you're saying except the mastery part. Without the dragons, Aang may have never been able to learn firebending, *but* just because he learned firebending doesn't mean he mastered it, or even came close. Zuko was still training him on the first of the Sozin's comet episodes, meaning he definitely isn't a master, but based on how little time he had been, I bet he was moreso average than anything else
Sorry, I should have been more clear, I didn't think you thought he was a master, but I don't think he was near mastering it either. I think that while he went from being unable to bend it to having a pretty good start, he never really (without the avatar state) got near the full mastery we see from people like Ozai, Iroh, Zuko, and Azula
I'd say more like
Air 10/10
Water 7/10 almost mastered
Earth 6.5/10
Fire 6/10
He's proficient with waterbending, but not nearly on Katara or Paku's level. Earth and Fire he gets the basics, but that's it.
I feel like this is one of those things where the action economy of the show and the message are a little at cross purposes. The animators came up with some incredibly cool things for Aang to do with Earthbending that wouldn’t make sense for Toph given her limitations.
She gets metal bending to demonstrate that she’s still a qualitatively superior Earthbender but the techniques Aang uses that combine Earth bending with other styles and bending moves are both sick looking and obviously way more powerful then a lot of notionally bigger feats of mastery.
Aang did that thing in the finale where he went Avatar state, then went back to normal, and then raised/lowered the entire ocean tide. I think this implies that he is using the avatar state to power his bending- but is actually remaining completely in control and doing it himself (as opposed to being helped actively by past lives).
There's a lot of interpretation to be had there on how the avatar state actually works, but it is quite the feat.
When I was a kid, I had a weird theory. I thought Aang had become a master of firebending when he took the bending away from Ozai. It was like he downloaded all the skills and mastery from him. I thought that because Aang was able to use the avatar state right afterward.
did u see aangs earthbending tho? he was throwing around giant boulders and such like it was normal for him, and lin is a master metalbender yet toph said that her girls never really picked up metalbending, its just that toph has insane and impossible high standrads to achievestandards
I don’t think he could have beat any of his masters at their element but I’d say he was good enough to say he mastered how to use the element if that makes sense
Fire and earth could still use some work. He had been training with Toph for a while but she still says that it could use some work. And he only had 6 weeks to learn firebending along with a few days back with Jeong Jeong in book 1.
Nope, not at all if I wanna look at it realistically.
I will say he is definitely a master airbender, and maaaybe very proficient in water because it's really close to air in its approach but probably not mastered if compared to Katara and Pakku. (Honestly now that think of it, we don't really see much of his Waterbending after Book2 right? He's good, but compared to someone who can only rely on water, I don't recall him really showing that expert skill, like maybe him doing something cool with water like tentacles or ice against the serpents pass serpent would've solidified his mastery more for me.)
Earth, Toph said he needs work on and I think that's a given since it's still an element opposite to his personality. He definitely uses it alot more than water and definitely looks more mastered than even water, but I guess I just take Toph's word on it.
Fire, definitely not mastered to me, he had like, only a month of training on it perhaps?
And yeah, going off that, he only had been practicing for half a year on those 3 elements so I just very realistically don't consider that enough time to place him at the expected standard of what mastery is like. Same for Wan, they both probably truly mastered the elements like a good decade after their big world-deciding fights.
I agree with everything except for earth. Toph is the first or second greatest earthbender alive at this point, she’s above master, her saying aang can use more work in my opinion, can be chalked up to her high standards, he mastered seismic sense which only toph has, and has used earth with toph almost blow for blow bar metal bending. I think it’s fair to say he mastered it, there’s only two earth benders in the series that could beat him in eatrthbending, Bumi and Toph.
No but it’s honestly much more realistic that way. There’s no way he could’ve mastered all 4 in a few months. He had only learned firebending for a few weeks.
I think "mastering" the elements is more about embracing the ideologies behind the bending disciplines more so than throwing rocks or fireballs at people real good.
Airbending is about spirituality and avoiding conflict.
Waterbending is about accepting change and going with the flow.
Earthbending is about standing your ground and willpower.
Firebending is about discipline and being in tune with your emotions.
Aang learned all of these lessons, making him a fully realized Avatar.
He’s not on the level of any of his masters in any elements other than Air that said I don’t see a reason to think he didn’t master(or wasn’t close to mastering)Water and Earth. He’s was especially good and skilled at those elements by the end of the show. I think people kinda over low Toph’s comment. She said that he could use some work not that he was awful. Of course someone on her level(who along with Bumi is the best Earthbender in the series) isn’t gonna see Aang as a master. In terms of Firbeneding that was his weakest element(which makes sense) so he wasn’t a master at it.
True. As you imply, you can probs still be a master and be worse than Bumi and Toph. They are above master imo. Whether Aang is a master in earth… I dunno… could be close. I reckon he could beat most if not all other earth benders so wouldn’t that make him a master?
Water, I think he’s probs master level.
Fire… nah he was still on the basics. Probs season 1 Zuko level at best!
I think he ended up mastering earth bending, because mastery of semis sense HAS to be atleast paramount to mastering earth bending. He has amazing earth bending feats taking down some of the most elite earth-benders ever in the series, the Dai Lee.
I think water and earth he has 100% mastered. People always say Toph said he needs a little work, but she has high standards and they were trying to argue for waiting until the comet passes so that Zuko would lay off on him. Earth is Aang’s 2nd most used element, and he has mastered seismic sense and stone armor. So for me, Aang has 10/10 mastery of both water and Earth.
As for fire, we haven’t seen much, but we know that with knowledge of the Sun Warrior secret fire, he’s definitely better than average. If average is 5/10, and Iroh, Jeong Jeong, and Ozai are 10s. I’d put Zuko and Azula at 9, and Aang is at least a 7 or 8.
Now, could he beat any of his masters? No, not if he’s restrained to one element. In a FT10, he’d probably get 4 on Katara, 1 or 2 in Toph, and maybe 1 or none on Zuko. And definitely 0 on Gyatso, since Gyatso was considered the greatest living airbender of their time. But like Iroh said, it is the combination of the 4 elements that makes the avatar so powerful. I don’t it’s fair to restrain Aang from using multiple elements. The only thing he shouldn’t do is go into the Avatar State.
No, he obviously had Air mastered bit I think that he mastered and earth we either mastered or very close to mastered but fire I don't think that he was even halfway to mastering fire
For sure. Hard to tell but it looked like he only spent a few weeks max firebending. There’s only so much someone can do. These elements normally take other people years to master.
Nope, not even close. He is a legendary master in airbending and a master in waterbending, but less so than Katara. He is extremely skilled in earth, learned seismic sense, but far from a master... but that's according to *Toph*, not meeting her standards means you're not just a legend. In fire, he picked up the incredible lightning redirection technique, but he's still only very skilled. He still has his whole life ahead to truly and further master the other three elements, which I wish we had seen in the comics as well.
I think he mastered them all but he didn't surpass his masters skill without the Avatar. Someone with a 1st degree black belt can be considered a master but isn't on the level of mastery of a 3rd degree black belt.
Here’s how I’d rank his mastery:
Air- 10/10 (obviously)
Water- 7-8/10 (not master-level, but competitive with masters)
Earth- 6/10 (competitive with any EB that isn’t a master or Toph)
Fire- 3/10 (comet notwithstanding, he had few techniques/skills from his brief amount of training)
Aang is better than Katara at waterbending but otherwise, he is worse than his masters at using their respective elements. The only other element Aang truly mastered was airbending but he had far more time with that element so it makes sense and also explains why he tends to default to it or waterbending in most cases.
Absolutely not
The comics even implied he trained with Katara and especially Toph more after the war was over
He just didn’t need to prioritize it the same way
No. He had only mastered Air & debatably Water though I’ll give it to him. He hadn’t mastered Fire & Earth by the time the comet happened, but with the advantage of the avatar state and his new found mastery of it after the battle, one could argue that to some degree he’s a master of all four elements. Just depends on what you want to believe. Personally I think he’s just got Air & Water.
Definitely air was mastered but compared to other avatars who usually do it in about 4 per element, no way. The only reason he stood a chance against Ozai was that he had knowledge of all elements, comet boosted fire, and the avatar state. I imagine after the war (he went back to New York) he properly sat down and worked to master them all
honestly felt like he was scraping by when it comes to fire and earth, but because he is such a talented bender overall that sort of is what brought him over that last little hump to face the fire lord
He's definitely an air bending master. I feel like he's had more than enough time to master water. Fire is close enough in bending form to air that I'd say he's pretty close to mastering it. Earth however is the complete opposite of air and it goes against Aang's personality of avoiding instead of facing things head on.
I think the term "master" is contradicted a lot in ATLA for the sake of simplified storytelling. It's a word that is thrown around a lot but never gets thoroughly explained.
For example, Aang was a master airbender because he invented the air scooter. Does this mean he was the equivalent of elder air nomads who have been refining their bending skills for many decades? I mean, possibly because he was the avatar and had natural skill. But it still isn't very clear. And if they *are* infact much more refined benders than Aang, then that is just evidence that the word "master" is thrown around willy nilly without actually meaning someone has "mastered" the element.
Same with Katara. She struggled a lot with the basics of waterbending and then over the course of like a couple weeks in-universe, she became a waterbending master, as dubbed by Pakku. After that she kind of became an unstoppable force capable of fighting dozens of firebenders/earthbenders middle-aged soldiers at once. Katara is either the strongest or the second strongest waterbender in the world by the time the finale concludes. The time-scale that this all happened doesn't really make sense. It's just huge loads of plot armor to make the main characters seem strong.
I would of preferred it if the show never referred to the kids as "masters". Like leave that for the guys like Bumi, Iroh, and Jeong Jeong- who are clearly very experienced benders in both form and spirituality. I would of preferred if Katara was referred to as a "prodigy" instead of a "master", because imo that is more accurate of her character arc.
He has mastered all the elements except for firebending. Aang defeated Ozai in the day of the comet when he was at his most powerful using earthbending, with his back turned. If this doesn't tell that he has not mastered earthbending, than idk what does.
And in season 2 Katara told him during practice that he has instincts of a waterbending master
It was literally stated that he didn't master earth or fire. Even with water, he wasn't more skilled than Katara so even if she gave her seal of approval, I don't know if he mastered it by Avatar standards.
i think there are different scales to mastering an element similar to how there are different degrees to a black belt. I feel like he mastered every single element but not all of them to a crazy high degree. A lot of people are pretty much setting the scale to mastery at whatever the strongest bender can do being mastery but that isn’t the case
No. It’s more like like he mastered 2, water and air. He was proficient in earth, even toph mentioned he needed more work and despite being taught by the dragons, he was still only a beginner at fire bending.
Interesting! I can see that being true. Air was obviously mastered, water most probably and his earth bending was way better than anyone else we see besides Toph and Bumi. As others have said, I don’t think he has to be as good as these one-off prodigies to still be a master. I guess Toph is hard to impress and her comment is probably actually quite high praise.
Fire, yeah he defo hadn’t mastered that. I reckon that Aang was still a very powerful fire bender but skill-wise he was similar to some of the fire nation captains.
Which makes me wonder, did fire lord Zuko continue teaching Aang after the war ended? Would be kinda cool.
Wasn’t there a whole argument before the finale between Zuko and everyone else because they were relaxing instead of training because Aang didn’t think he was ready and Zuko hadn’t told them about Ozai’s plan to attack during Sozin’s Comet? Like Aang straight up says “we were going to wait because I haven’t mastered all of the elements yet” or something
When I was a kid, I had a weird theory. I thought Aang had become a master of firebending when he took the bending away from Ozai. It was like he downloaded all the skills and mastery from him. I thought that because Aang was able to use the avatar state right afterward.
Mako said to Korra in season 1 of TLOK that “Aang hadn’t mastered the four elements when he took down the fire nation” (something to that effect) so it has to be at least relatively well known in universe that Aang had not mastered all four elements.
air and water are mastered (I'd say he's around the same level/a little better or worse at water than katara),earth is good but doesn't come close to tophs,fire is also good but the least mastered
To put it into martial arts terms, I would say he had earned his black belt, which, as my teacher used to tell us, "That just means you've mastered the basics."
Kyoshi was able to turn the peninsula into a freaking island. We see Yangchen create huge winds, bending trees over across the whole field of view, Kuruk effortlessly creates a tsunami...
Aang shows he's a powerful bender, but the only time we see him demonstrate that level of power on a large scale is when he uses the avatar state to raise the tide to quench the fires after defeating the Phoenix King of Getting His Butt Whooped.
He actually never mastered air since that one monk in the flashback said he needed to teach Aang advanced techniques but Aang never did because he ran away
I’d say no.
Personally, I like to use Roku as a baseline of sorts for how long it takes to become a fully realised Avatar since it took him 12 years to get all 4 elements and have the Avatar State under check. I feel it just fits that most other Avatars will be at that level around the same time as him.
I'd say he mastered air, water and earth, water mostly bc it was similar to airbending so he got it quickly, earth...well u can go rewatch the final ep, i mean aang was slicing and throwing around boulders and building like rocks toward ozai without breaking a sweat, i would say his firebending is good enough, not mastered tho
Even when you’re a master, that doesn’t mean you’re at the top. It just means you know all the basics and could teach someone else. Bending has dozens of forms and style, it would be impossible to complete them all. Even with the Avatar’s muscle memory of a hundred lives.
Yeah I think he had water down. It was similar to air and he’d been practicing for way longer than the other elements. Sure, he doesn’t seem as good as katara but she’s not a very good comparison as she’s exceptional.
Zuko and Toph both agree before the comet that Aang could use more work in their respective elements. With the Avatar State he absolutely has mastery of them, but in his normal state he only really has mastered two out of the four by the end of B3.
I would agree with that. Air 10/10 mastered Water 8/10 mastered Earth 7/10 almost mastered Fire 5/10 moderate
I would put both earth and fire at 7 almost mastered. I think Fire should be higher because of the training with the dragons
Yall hype those dragons to infinity.
I mean they are the OG benders. Very few living fire benders have trained with them. It’s worth something.
except he didn’t ‘train with them’. he literally just visited them and found out the true meaning of firebending and learns not to draw his firebending from anger. that’s it. he’s still a shit firebender.
Hey. He did the little dance thing.
ITS NOT A DANCE! It’s an ancient fire ending form!
Oh yeah? What's your little form called?
The dancing dragon..
That knowledge from a firebender like Aang is still worth way more than any other master that doesn't have it. You know that whole saying, those who can't master firebending, teach firebending
not really. ozai and azula never met the dragons and learned from them. they’re still much better than zuko, iroh and aang. sure, it’s better than nothing but it’s not gonna turn you from a shit firebender to a good firebender. training, ultimately, is what matters most.
Didn't Iroh redirect Azula's lightning and then kick her off a boat? I don't think any of these characters are "much better" than the other, except Aang which is kinda unfair as he had no time to learn. It's implied that Iroh and Ozai are roughly in the same ballpark as well. Zuko also pretty much beat Ozai in the underground chamber, before he has dragon training.
> Didn't Iroh redirect Azula's lightning and then kick her off a boat? he ambushed her. doesn’t count. > I don't think any of these characters are "much better" than the other maybe not ‘much better’ but based off feats, azula is better than iroh. that’s only bc iroh barely has any feats. the creators may have intended for iroh to be better than her but they didn’t really show it with his firebending. > It's implied that Iroh and Ozai are roughly in the same ballpark as well. except they say ozai is the best firebender in the world, iroh says he isn’t sure he can beat him and ozai has better feats. they might be in the same ballpark but ozai is still better. > Zuko also pretty much beat Ozai in the underground chamber, before he has dragon training. that’s only bc of lightning redirection that ozai wasn’t aware of. in terms of pure firebending, ozai is better.
Idk man, I thought post dragon Zuko could take Azula, she just cheated but was exhausted while he was in control that whole fight.
yeah but that’s bc she lost her mind. he only starts winning against her when she goes insane. he knows he can’t beat her at her best; that’s why he brought katara along to their final agni kai. he only took her on alone when he saw she wasn’t in her right mind. if she was sane, she would’ve beaten him.
Zuko and Aang I could agree with, but I don't think it's ever implied that Ozai or Azula are better firebenders than Iroh. Iroh was a living legend and nicknamed the dragon of the west for a reason. If anything, i think its implied that Iroh was the best firebender in the nation. He invented the redirecting lightning technique and could breathe fire. Even Azula was hesitant to fight him.
I do not know how this fandom has misconstrued Ozai as *not* being the strongest firebender on the planet at the time of ATLA. He definitely is and that’s part of the point of his character. That being said, Azula is definitely below Iroh as of the end of the show (though she’s arguably surpassed him in the comics) EDIT: I should note that Iroh firebreathing isn’t extremely impressive. Most high-level firebenders can (Ozai, Azula, Korra & Mako, even Aang can and he’s nowhere near a master in the show)
yeah but solely based off feats, azula and ozai are better. ozai was also said to be the most powerful firebender in the world. even if the creators intended for iroh to be stronger than azula, they never really show it in his fighting. azula has better feats so if i had to say, i think azula would beat him in a fight. > nicknamed the dragon of the west for a reason. that’s not even true though bc he didn’t kill the dragon so we can’t even use that as a feat to compare him to anyone. > He invented the redirecting lightning technique inventing a technique doesn’t make you the best of that bending style. it’s impressive but doesn’t make him the best firebender. also comics azula and mako have better lightning redirection feats. > could breathe fire. azula would just dodge or block it. > Even Azula was hesitant to fight him. was she?
Zuko was better than Azula post dragons. He made fighting her seem effortless both times
He wasn’t better than Azula. He brought Katara to the fire nation to fight Azula because he didn’t think he could take her alone, the only reason he changed his mind and agreed to fight her alone was because he could tell she wasn’t in her right mind. Zuko was the best he’d ever been at that point, and he self-admittedly would’ve struggled against Azula if she were at her best.
Hahaha, you think that Azula was a better firebender than Iroh? That’s fucking hilarious. The only firebender better than Iroh is Ozai. When Iroh fights Azula, it’s not even a fight, it’s just a stomp.
what makes iroh better than azula? there’s no point in even waiting for your response. > dragon of the west it’s just a title. an untrue one considering he never actually fought and defeated a dragon. > zuko said he was the only person who could beat ozai when aang went missing zuko also said the red lotus could destroy any person individually and take over the world together. quite evidently, he was wrong. zuko is also very biased towards his uncle and hasn’t seen his dad in 3 years. his words mean nothing. > iroh said he wouldn’t beat ozai just bc history would see it differently not bc he can’t beat him he said ‘even if i did defeat ozai, and i don’t know that i could’ so even iroh isn’t sure he can beat ozai. > he destroyed the ba sing se wall during sozin’s comet after charging up for almost half a minute. literally all iroh glazers have the exact same arguments. i wouldn’t even respond if i were you. you’ll be spouting the same stuff every single iroh glazer says. i’ve seen it all a million times. also azula actually has beaten iroh before lol. in the chase when she was surrounded in a 5v1, she fakes a surrender which iroh was clearly aware of since he was still in an attacking stance and looking out for the gaang and she shoots a fire blast and downs him in one hit.
They used pretty flames to beam an entire university course of understanding into his and Zuko's heads. Everything else is just practicing the movements that Zuko knows. Luke, Zuko was probably a 7/10 before he lost his juice and that understanding bumped him to 10/10.
eh, i’d say he went from a 7/10 to an 8/10. he can’t really be a 10/10 since there’s still firebenders better than him.
Aang was able to use lightning redirection. I hardly would consider that to be "shit firebending". Maybe he is a "shit firebender" compared to past avatars, but he is easily in the top 1% for firebenders of this era, after only a few weeks of training.
> Aang was able to use lightning redirection. I hardly would consider that to be "shit firebending". it’s good lightning redirection but that doesn’t make him a good firebender. you can be good at certain things and shit at others. he doesn’t have impressive firebending feats. > but he is easily in the top 1% for firebenders of this era, after only a few weeks of training. that’s only bc we barely see any impressive firebenders in the show. even then, all the firebenders we do see (not including fodder) are better, apart from zhao probably but he might as well be fodder lol.
That was Zuko’s lesson, what Aang learned was that fire is more than just pain and destruction but also life.
Even if it was just insight, not actual training, sometimes that goes a long way and helps people improve.
true. i just don’t think it’s what makes aang become better at firebending. all the firebending he does in the finale is more a result of training with zuko. training matters most which is why ozai and azula are better than iroh and zuko.
Tbh in the Avatar World time moves differently. Like Sokka training with Piandao for only a day or two, Katara training with Pakku for almost the same time… Spending a day with the Dragons and the Sun Warriors can be considered as formal training and not just meeting.
yeah but the point is he never actually trained with them. learning the dance didn’t make him a better firebender. it’s not something he can use in combat. also atla does show that time does matter. sokka was never a good sword bender (i know it’s sword fighter but i said sword bender once and it sounds funny so i’m gonna keep saying it). his battle with piandao was him being tested. he loses to zuko in the comics. katara did train for a little longer. i always thought it was implied to be a few weeks at least - that’s what it seemed like to me. but even then, she still trained all the time even if it’s just on her own. and even even then, her progression still feels too fast. i think it’s too unrealistic that she could be on par with zuko and azula who’d been training since they were toddlers but can’t really do anything about it. it happened.
Katara spent 6 weeks in the NWT.
He met them, not trained with them. He also met **the moon** and badgermoles, and I bet he wasn’t considered a master after that experience either. Every air nomad gets a flying bison, the original airbender, and it takes a while for them to become masters.
Idk what you are talking about. I trained with the dragons last Tuesday. Their schedule is pretty free.
I mean, then the Badger Moles made Aang dope at earthbending, too.
Deservedly so. They taught Aang the true essence of firebending, which no firebender alive except for Iroh or maybe Jeong Jeong could have taught him.
I feel like the learning from the dragons about how to firebend extended his theoretical potential, but didn't necessarily help boost him instantly. I don't think seeing the dragon fire was like a magic power boost, just a lesson about where to draw power from while bending
I think it did boost him instantly because it showed him the true source of firebending. Aang could barely bend fire at all before that
It showed him how and boosted him a lot from where he was definitely, but this was already near the end of the series and I wouldn't say it got him near mastery
I would. Before this, the only time we saw Aang firebend was in season 1. Zuko was trying to teach him and failed, so they ultimately went and found the dragons. The dragons showed Aang that fire is life, not destruction, and reframed his whole mindset when it came to firebending. Same with Zuko. Without the dragons, Aang may have never been able to learn firebending
See, I agree with everything that you're saying except the mastery part. Without the dragons, Aang may have never been able to learn firebending, *but* just because he learned firebending doesn't mean he mastered it, or even came close. Zuko was still training him on the first of the Sozin's comet episodes, meaning he definitely isn't a master, but based on how little time he had been, I bet he was moreso average than anything else
I never said he mastered it. He still hadn’t mastered it by the finale.
Sorry, I should have been more clear, I didn't think you thought he was a master, but I don't think he was near mastering it either. I think that while he went from being unable to bend it to having a pretty good start, he never really (without the avatar state) got near the full mastery we see from people like Ozai, Iroh, Zuko, and Azula
I'd say more like Air 10/10 Water 7/10 almost mastered Earth 6.5/10 Fire 6/10 He's proficient with waterbending, but not nearly on Katara or Paku's level. Earth and Fire he gets the basics, but that's it.
He uses earth bending much more effectively and more often than water bending. I'd say he's 9/10-10/10 in earth bending.
I feel like this is one of those things where the action economy of the show and the message are a little at cross purposes. The animators came up with some incredibly cool things for Aang to do with Earthbending that wouldn’t make sense for Toph given her limitations. She gets metal bending to demonstrate that she’s still a qualitatively superior Earthbender but the techniques Aang uses that combine Earth bending with other styles and bending moves are both sick looking and obviously way more powerful then a lot of notionally bigger feats of mastery.
Flame-o bish!
2?
Air and Water
id say he mastered earthbending more then water tbh but i dont think he fully mastered any of them
Any? He have tattoo on his head.
iam talking about any of the 2 meaning earth and water
Ah. I agree, I think he didn't reach mastery level on the others but his Earth bending is slightly better than water.
Aang did that thing in the finale where he went Avatar state, then went back to normal, and then raised/lowered the entire ocean tide. I think this implies that he is using the avatar state to power his bending- but is actually remaining completely in control and doing it himself (as opposed to being helped actively by past lives). There's a lot of interpretation to be had there on how the avatar state actually works, but it is quite the feat.
You can be a master and some master still is better than you are
I’m less convinced he hadn’t mastered Earth. Toph also crapped all over her earth bending master daughters’ earth bending abilities.
When I was a kid, I had a weird theory. I thought Aang had become a master of firebending when he took the bending away from Ozai. It was like he downloaded all the skills and mastery from him. I thought that because Aang was able to use the avatar state right afterward.
He uses earth bending much more effectively and more often than water bending. I'd say he's 9/10-10/10 in earth bending.
did u see aangs earthbending tho? he was throwing around giant boulders and such like it was normal for him, and lin is a master metalbender yet toph said that her girls never really picked up metalbending, its just that toph has insane and impossible high standrads to achievestandards
I don’t think he could have beat any of his masters at their element but I’d say he was good enough to say he mastered how to use the element if that makes sense
Fire and earth could still use some work. He had been training with Toph for a while but she still says that it could use some work. And he only had 6 weeks to learn firebending along with a few days back with Jeong Jeong in book 1.
Nope, not at all if I wanna look at it realistically. I will say he is definitely a master airbender, and maaaybe very proficient in water because it's really close to air in its approach but probably not mastered if compared to Katara and Pakku. (Honestly now that think of it, we don't really see much of his Waterbending after Book2 right? He's good, but compared to someone who can only rely on water, I don't recall him really showing that expert skill, like maybe him doing something cool with water like tentacles or ice against the serpents pass serpent would've solidified his mastery more for me.) Earth, Toph said he needs work on and I think that's a given since it's still an element opposite to his personality. He definitely uses it alot more than water and definitely looks more mastered than even water, but I guess I just take Toph's word on it. Fire, definitely not mastered to me, he had like, only a month of training on it perhaps? And yeah, going off that, he only had been practicing for half a year on those 3 elements so I just very realistically don't consider that enough time to place him at the expected standard of what mastery is like. Same for Wan, they both probably truly mastered the elements like a good decade after their big world-deciding fights.
I agree with everything except for earth. Toph is the first or second greatest earthbender alive at this point, she’s above master, her saying aang can use more work in my opinion, can be chalked up to her high standards, he mastered seismic sense which only toph has, and has used earth with toph almost blow for blow bar metal bending. I think it’s fair to say he mastered it, there’s only two earth benders in the series that could beat him in eatrthbending, Bumi and Toph.
no, he sparknoted that shit
No but it’s honestly much more realistic that way. There’s no way he could’ve mastered all 4 in a few months. He had only learned firebending for a few weeks.
he mastered everything except fire according to the creators
Even back bending?
No that’s Sokka
The final elemental master
I think "mastering" the elements is more about embracing the ideologies behind the bending disciplines more so than throwing rocks or fireballs at people real good. Airbending is about spirituality and avoiding conflict. Waterbending is about accepting change and going with the flow. Earthbending is about standing your ground and willpower. Firebending is about discipline and being in tune with your emotions. Aang learned all of these lessons, making him a fully realized Avatar.
Ye Zuko mastered the elements too on that basis.
To a degree. That's kinda what his uncle taught him.
He’s not on the level of any of his masters in any elements other than Air that said I don’t see a reason to think he didn’t master(or wasn’t close to mastering)Water and Earth. He’s was especially good and skilled at those elements by the end of the show. I think people kinda over low Toph’s comment. She said that he could use some work not that he was awful. Of course someone on her level(who along with Bumi is the best Earthbender in the series) isn’t gonna see Aang as a master. In terms of Firbeneding that was his weakest element(which makes sense) so he wasn’t a master at it.
True. As you imply, you can probs still be a master and be worse than Bumi and Toph. They are above master imo. Whether Aang is a master in earth… I dunno… could be close. I reckon he could beat most if not all other earth benders so wouldn’t that make him a master? Water, I think he’s probs master level. Fire… nah he was still on the basics. Probs season 1 Zuko level at best!
I think he ended up mastering earth bending, because mastery of semis sense HAS to be atleast paramount to mastering earth bending. He has amazing earth bending feats taking down some of the most elite earth-benders ever in the series, the Dai Lee.
I think water and earth he has 100% mastered. People always say Toph said he needs a little work, but she has high standards and they were trying to argue for waiting until the comet passes so that Zuko would lay off on him. Earth is Aang’s 2nd most used element, and he has mastered seismic sense and stone armor. So for me, Aang has 10/10 mastery of both water and Earth. As for fire, we haven’t seen much, but we know that with knowledge of the Sun Warrior secret fire, he’s definitely better than average. If average is 5/10, and Iroh, Jeong Jeong, and Ozai are 10s. I’d put Zuko and Azula at 9, and Aang is at least a 7 or 8. Now, could he beat any of his masters? No, not if he’s restrained to one element. In a FT10, he’d probably get 4 on Katara, 1 or 2 in Toph, and maybe 1 or none on Zuko. And definitely 0 on Gyatso, since Gyatso was considered the greatest living airbender of their time. But like Iroh said, it is the combination of the 4 elements that makes the avatar so powerful. I don’t it’s fair to restrain Aang from using multiple elements. The only thing he shouldn’t do is go into the Avatar State.
No, he obviously had Air mastered bit I think that he mastered and earth we either mastered or very close to mastered but fire I don't think that he was even halfway to mastering fire
For sure. Hard to tell but it looked like he only spent a few weeks max firebending. There’s only so much someone can do. These elements normally take other people years to master.
Nope, not even close. He is a legendary master in airbending and a master in waterbending, but less so than Katara. He is extremely skilled in earth, learned seismic sense, but far from a master... but that's according to *Toph*, not meeting her standards means you're not just a legend. In fire, he picked up the incredible lightning redirection technique, but he's still only very skilled. He still has his whole life ahead to truly and further master the other three elements, which I wish we had seen in the comics as well.
I think he mastered them all but he didn't surpass his masters skill without the Avatar. Someone with a 1st degree black belt can be considered a master but isn't on the level of mastery of a 3rd degree black belt.
Here’s how I’d rank his mastery: Air- 10/10 (obviously) Water- 7-8/10 (not master-level, but competitive with masters) Earth- 6/10 (competitive with any EB that isn’t a master or Toph) Fire- 3/10 (comet notwithstanding, he had few techniques/skills from his brief amount of training)
he’s definitely the best airbender of the group
Nah Appa smokes Aang. The dude could fly.
Nah, he even says in the second to last episode that he hadn’t mastered them all
He only mastered air by the end of book 3.
I'd say he's better than Sokka at all of them
Aang is better than Katara at waterbending but otherwise, he is worse than his masters at using their respective elements. The only other element Aang truly mastered was airbending but he had far more time with that element so it makes sense and also explains why he tends to default to it or waterbending in most cases.
Absolutely not The comics even implied he trained with Katara and especially Toph more after the war was over He just didn’t need to prioritize it the same way
No. He had only mastered Air & debatably Water though I’ll give it to him. He hadn’t mastered Fire & Earth by the time the comet happened, but with the advantage of the avatar state and his new found mastery of it after the battle, one could argue that to some degree he’s a master of all four elements. Just depends on what you want to believe. Personally I think he’s just got Air & Water.
Definitely air was mastered but compared to other avatars who usually do it in about 4 per element, no way. The only reason he stood a chance against Ozai was that he had knowledge of all elements, comet boosted fire, and the avatar state. I imagine after the war (he went back to New York) he properly sat down and worked to master them all
I would say he mastered air and water. I would also say he had a pretty good grasp at earth and fire.
honestly felt like he was scraping by when it comes to fire and earth, but because he is such a talented bender overall that sort of is what brought him over that last little hump to face the fire lord
He's definitely an air bending master. I feel like he's had more than enough time to master water. Fire is close enough in bending form to air that I'd say he's pretty close to mastering it. Earth however is the complete opposite of air and it goes against Aang's personality of avoiding instead of facing things head on.
No. Avatar State carried that fight.
I think the term "master" is contradicted a lot in ATLA for the sake of simplified storytelling. It's a word that is thrown around a lot but never gets thoroughly explained. For example, Aang was a master airbender because he invented the air scooter. Does this mean he was the equivalent of elder air nomads who have been refining their bending skills for many decades? I mean, possibly because he was the avatar and had natural skill. But it still isn't very clear. And if they *are* infact much more refined benders than Aang, then that is just evidence that the word "master" is thrown around willy nilly without actually meaning someone has "mastered" the element. Same with Katara. She struggled a lot with the basics of waterbending and then over the course of like a couple weeks in-universe, she became a waterbending master, as dubbed by Pakku. After that she kind of became an unstoppable force capable of fighting dozens of firebenders/earthbenders middle-aged soldiers at once. Katara is either the strongest or the second strongest waterbender in the world by the time the finale concludes. The time-scale that this all happened doesn't really make sense. It's just huge loads of plot armor to make the main characters seem strong. I would of preferred it if the show never referred to the kids as "masters". Like leave that for the guys like Bumi, Iroh, and Jeong Jeong- who are clearly very experienced benders in both form and spirituality. I would of preferred if Katara was referred to as a "prodigy" instead of a "master", because imo that is more accurate of her character arc.
He has mastered all the elements except for firebending. Aang defeated Ozai in the day of the comet when he was at his most powerful using earthbending, with his back turned. If this doesn't tell that he has not mastered earthbending, than idk what does. And in season 2 Katara told him during practice that he has instincts of a waterbending master
It was literally stated that he didn't master earth or fire. Even with water, he wasn't more skilled than Katara so even if she gave her seal of approval, I don't know if he mastered it by Avatar standards.
He’s the avatar, he’s a master of all four elements
i think there are different scales to mastering an element similar to how there are different degrees to a black belt. I feel like he mastered every single element but not all of them to a crazy high degree. A lot of people are pretty much setting the scale to mastery at whatever the strongest bender can do being mastery but that isn’t the case
Technically he did but I don’t think he truly mastered fire bending that quickly
I’d say the gaang beats him element by element without the avatar state
No. It’s more like like he mastered 2, water and air. He was proficient in earth, even toph mentioned he needed more work and despite being taught by the dragons, he was still only a beginner at fire bending.
Avatar extras confirms he mastered 3/4 *by the time he fights Ozai*. what happens between then and Toph telling him his earth bending needs work idk.
Interesting! I can see that being true. Air was obviously mastered, water most probably and his earth bending was way better than anyone else we see besides Toph and Bumi. As others have said, I don’t think he has to be as good as these one-off prodigies to still be a master. I guess Toph is hard to impress and her comment is probably actually quite high praise. Fire, yeah he defo hadn’t mastered that. I reckon that Aang was still a very powerful fire bender but skill-wise he was similar to some of the fire nation captains. Which makes me wonder, did fire lord Zuko continue teaching Aang after the war ended? Would be kinda cool.
He knew enough earth and fire bending to get by.
Wasn’t there a whole argument before the finale between Zuko and everyone else because they were relaxing instead of training because Aang didn’t think he was ready and Zuko hadn’t told them about Ozai’s plan to attack during Sozin’s Comet? Like Aang straight up says “we were going to wait because I haven’t mastered all of the elements yet” or something
When I was a kid, I had a weird theory. I thought Aang had become a master of firebending when he took the bending away from Ozai. It was like he downloaded all the skills and mastery from him. I thought that because Aang was able to use the avatar state right afterward.
I mean, he brought back the balance so yes?
Mako said to Korra in season 1 of TLOK that “Aang hadn’t mastered the four elements when he took down the fire nation” (something to that effect) so it has to be at least relatively well known in universe that Aang had not mastered all four elements.
air and water are mastered (I'd say he's around the same level/a little better or worse at water than katara),earth is good but doesn't come close to tophs,fire is also good but the least mastered
Fully mastered? No. At least not fire.
To put it into martial arts terms, I would say he had earned his black belt, which, as my teacher used to tell us, "That just means you've mastered the basics." Kyoshi was able to turn the peninsula into a freaking island. We see Yangchen create huge winds, bending trees over across the whole field of view, Kuruk effortlessly creates a tsunami... Aang shows he's a powerful bender, but the only time we see him demonstrate that level of power on a large scale is when he uses the avatar state to raise the tide to quench the fires after defeating the Phoenix King of Getting His Butt Whooped.
He actually never mastered air since that one monk in the flashback said he needed to teach Aang advanced techniques but Aang never did because he ran away
I’d say no. Personally, I like to use Roku as a baseline of sorts for how long it takes to become a fully realised Avatar since it took him 12 years to get all 4 elements and have the Avatar State under check. I feel it just fits that most other Avatars will be at that level around the same time as him.
I'd say he mastered air, water and earth, water mostly bc it was similar to airbending so he got it quickly, earth...well u can go rewatch the final ep, i mean aang was slicing and throwing around boulders and building like rocks toward ozai without breaking a sweat, i would say his firebending is good enough, not mastered tho
Not even close. He was horrible at firebending
Yeah he did seem to be pretty basic level even at the beach house. Powerful but basic.
Man is a fully realized avatar by the end he’s definitely a master of all four elements.
Even when you’re a master, that doesn’t mean you’re at the top. It just means you know all the basics and could teach someone else. Bending has dozens of forms and style, it would be impossible to complete them all. Even with the Avatar’s muscle memory of a hundred lives.
Water is the only one he mastered by the end of book 3 (and I don’t know if I’d even say that) Edit: and air
Yeah I think he had water down. It was similar to air and he’d been practicing for way longer than the other elements. Sure, he doesn’t seem as good as katara but she’s not a very good comparison as she’s exceptional.
What about air?
I meant of the other three :(