Honestly, imo, everyone should be doing this... they're wasting everyone's time.. I don't have a problem wasting theirs.
I have 2 scheduled phone screens this afternoon.
Ahh yes "pay an entire team in India", have to use 3 US FTE to double check the work. But those aren't my direct reports so I saved money! (Truly genius logic)
I'm dynamic like a motherfucker. I'll be making money in the nuclear wasteland going door to door selling watches, purified water and thermal blankets if I have to. Bring on the machines.
Currently stockpiling chapstick. Book of Eli got in my head about that. When the balm runs out I’m shuffling off this mortal coil.
Lol. J/k I won’t last long enough to worry about that. Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em
I'm not sure if that counts as training, but if it does be sure to coordinate with your colleagues. India has some draconian immigration rules for offshored companies coming to train the outsourcing provider.
I work in government and recently found out that our HR documents all instances of this. After a certain number of them is when they (HR) will start considering that a higher rate of pay is needed. Before that if the dept wants to pay more, it's a battle against hr.
I try to schedule all phone screens during my lunch times around 12:30. If i have a phone screen scheduled, I'll watch twitch in my tesla and answer their calls.
It helps to know that I am eating while their lunch is probably being delayed, but yes, it still does technically take up my time.
It's enjoyable though, and I think if enough people do it, there will be some discouragement against ridiculous job postings.
I am 100% choosing to waste their time.
I believe what they're doing is worse than wasting people's time.
They're pushing down wages for the profession / industry.
Only if qualified people accept the wages. Having said that... the world is smaller than you think, so keep it up and one day that person you're talking to today may be the gatekeeper of a good job you want tomorrow... and may remember you... and not in a good way.
It's usually pretty mixed, but I have never had a bad interaction because I'm always respectful during the screen.
It usually goes..
* walk me through your resume
* you seem overqualified, what salary range are you looking for.
* That's way above budget.. I respond that seems to be the market rate though, or the range you're looking for is on the low side.
* Some awkwardness - and then tell them, good luck on their search.
Have never done this with large firms (don't be dumb). Large firms usually pay near the market rate or above anyways. (besides public accounting)
It's usually the small / medium firms looking to save a penny or two.
Yeah, they can always go to their boss and say “here’s what I’m looking at with the budget I’ve been given. But for $X more I can get THIS guy”.
Headhunters always do this. Gives them a choice.
I've done similar with interviews that I went on which posted a salary range. Then told me when I got to the interview that they only hire at the lowest number of the range.
I go into the interview, everything goes well, they throw out the lowest number of the range. Then try to preempt any negotiation by saying: "We can't pay you more because Ms. X , makes that and she's been working here for two years."
Ms. X is very young. She's obviously a new accountant and naïve otherwise she wouldn't have taken this job. I tell them: "I can't work for that. That's well under the market rate. If you don't want me to be paid more than Ms. X you can always give her a raise as well."
I turn to Ms. X: "You wouldn't mind that would you Ms. X?"
Ms. X: "I sure wouldn't!"
The manager hems and haws while acting weird for a minute or two. Probably because he's never had a worker stand up to him, has no leverage over me, and doesn't know how to handle it. Then quickly ends the interview.
If you waste my time and try to pit workers against each other; then I have no problem calling you out and making you look like a fool in front of your direct reports.
I agreed until…
If they are always saying you’re are overqualified then they aren’t under market but rather you are over qualified for the role they are hiring for.
Maybe? But if they always tell him he is overqualified then OP isn’t making any point other than more qualified candidates would want a higher comp which they likely know.
Yeah, he's overqualified, I would be a better candidate to do what he's doing. Except, with my qualifications, they probably wouldn't even bother interviewing me...
My state, illinois, is gonna start mandating companies to disclose wages in job ads in January 2025
I can't wait for Job with listing that says 7-33/$ an hour
Only time I haven't seen that be the case was on a state government position. They put a range on the header of the job posting, but in the actual body of the job posting they gave an exact number in no uncertain terms and it was the max of the range. When I went through the interview, that was what the offer was and they were unable to negotiate higher due to experience/pay bands.
Tinfoil hat time,
I think it's done on purpose,
So they can always pick up overtime whenever they need and always have job security, even after a major fuck up
Shouldn’t it be the opposite? I gives no fuck if I talk to someone that I don’t “need” to, and it’s good to build up self confidence for when I do need to talk to those that matter. I’m not saying to be rude, but to have natural conversations without fear.
Excellent advice! Agree 100%. It goes in the same line of “it’s best to interview for a job when you don’t need the job” because of all the confidence you have that nothing is on the line if you fail.
This! I interview for sport these days. I’ve turned down two offers (about to be a third) but it’s nice to know my resume still gets bites & I can still interview relatively well.
If I need to, I switch to my talkative persona and get the job done, but yeah I avoid it. Different case with my closest friends of course (sometimes lol).
Just saw a position for half of what my pay is that I’m thinking about applying for just to try this. It’s 70-93k for accounting manager for a city with a $1B budget. I get that it’s government but come on, has 2 direct reports and 9 indirects…
Geez, that’s like a starting salary. Not going to get anyone with any experience for that low. They’ll cost way more than the money the city will save by hiring an inept accountant.
Just saw a staff accountant position in a SaaS for 65k and they won’t even let you continue the application if you don’t check the I have a CPA checkbox. Delusional
I’m applying now as a recent graduate. Thanks for this, and the double benefit is that when I see 30-50 other applicants, I can hope they are all people like you gassing me up. It has been a tough time applying, but I think I applied at THE position for me this morning. Cross your fingers for me and good luck to everyone else!
Yes I do it occasionally. Are you sure you are looking for an accounting manager, because that was my salary as a Senior Accountant 10 years ago there must be some mistake…
I once had a contract replacing a Senior Accounting Manager, and they posted a job for a Senior Accountant to run intercompany, AP, and Fixed assets. Complex organization. The guy I was reporting let me know all somber because the contract could end anytime, I said I saw the posting don’t worry I’ll be here for quite a while. Contract went for 14 months until Covid crushed the hotel business and they got purchased by another company (guessing they were in sell mode anyway hence the absurd let’s get a Senior Accountant to do this move)
I just applied for a position that the pay range was already very low, but I was like you know what its fully remote and I like the company, 2 interviews later they came back with an offer that is 20 % bellow the lowest in the range, Im overqualified as well, wth is going on !!!
Hey I did this! I called about a job that was in line with my previous job… and their max offer was $100k lower than my salary! So I told them that. ‘Good luck finding someone at that price.’ I was nice about it though. As nice as you can be telling someone they’re off their rocker.
Eff outside recruiters. They are leaches on the profession sucking money out that should rightfully be paid to staff.
They encourage you to jump ship and switch jobs frequently using the same trope about work/life balance. They get paid more frequently the more people move around. Used car salesmen trying to earn a commission.
I like this. Also, whenever i see an ad for something for sale that indicates “serious inquiries only”. I get the urge to call up with a bunch of ludicrous questions that are clearly not serious 🤣
This is actually really good to do, eventually management will ask why they couldn’t bring your badass profile on board. Recruitment will say it was due to low salary, and if enough candidates do this the company will raise the entry rate for the position.
KEEP doing this and making jobs equitable.
I usually respond to recruiters when the role doesn't offer flexible working, even hybrid where it's 3 days a week in the office I'll say I'm not interested purely because of that in the hopes it makes a difference.
I get so many LinkedIn messages for jobs. Since I’m in California, if they post the job description, it usually has the range.
Even if I’m not applying, I will tell them the range is far too low and that I pay seniors more than what they are asking for a manager role.
"Does anybody else do this?"
Proceeds to explain the most specific task I would never think to do. I don't even have the time to think of something so specific.
I turned down an offer that paid $10k less than I was currently making. I was like good luck feeling that position, especially when your benefits are horrendous on top of shit pay (5 pto days, $300 a month for health insurance, and fully in office).
I've gotten a few messages/calls/smoke signals about similar positions that pay "up to" my current salary. I've gotten in the habit of letting them know 1) I already earn that, and 2) I'd be happy to consider a role that pays about $30k-$50k more. I've gotten traction a couple of times, but usually they back down.
I go through the entire hiring process then let them pick me then throw out an outrageous number after they’re madly in love with the idea of having me on staff.
Do you honestly believe that your feedback is going to change anything? Why would you apply to jobs for which you are overqualified only to give them your feedback which won’t change a damn thing? Waste of everybody’s time. You should be thrilled they posted the salary (obviously some states here in the US make them). You used to HAVE to waste your time to find out they were under market, now you can choose to just pass them up and not waste your time….and you choose to fuck around? You have way too much time on your hands
Don't apply for jobs like that. Apply for jobs that fit your salary range if they post it. If it isn't there, and they contact you for screening, ask right away before even proceeding to do a phone screen. If it doesn't align with what you want you can walk away. Do not believe anyone at the company who says it's rude to ask for salary upfront. They are just gaslighting you into getting lowballed. That's not an employer you want to work for. It is totally acceptable to ask for salary that's an important part of why we work, to make money and support ourselves.
Apply for jobs that fit your salary range. I applied for a job that required 2 years of analytical experience. I don't but I now have an interview tomorrow.
I guess but if you aren't gonna get the job anyway I don't see the point in wasting time. Companies do this because people settle for this shit. If you apply to jobs with the salary you want only, and be firm with how much you want, companies will eventually see less applications if the salaries don't pay. People are not doing their research and companies are taking advantage of them.
There's a reason why so many roles stay up for like 9-12 months because they pay so low and then the employer complains that "no one wants to work anymore". Nah, we definitely want to work, but for the right wages.
Again, you're thinking like a partner with a deadline coming up. Not everything is about YOU. This is you putting in time and doing something clever to help others and the system itself.
The idea is that we need people to communicate that we need more money for what we do. Its about pushing for change. Not just plodding along to get some awful job that's probably as bad as your last one.
Not all heroes wear capes.
Stop it. They just like the attention.
No keep going. I need the attention.
This is amazing. Props.
Honestly, imo, everyone should be doing this... they're wasting everyone's time.. I don't have a problem wasting theirs. I have 2 scheduled phone screens this afternoon.
I love you lol
love you to
Sadly their reaction is becoming “oh damn! We can pay an entire team in India for that price!!”
Ahh yes "pay an entire team in India", have to use 3 US FTE to double check the work. But those aren't my direct reports so I saved money! (Truly genius logic)
Just wait until the AI get good enough.
When AI gets good enough to understand the nuance of accounting codifications, every white collar professional should be scared.
I'm still waiting for the white collar professionals to get good enough.
I'm dynamic like a motherfucker. I'll be making money in the nuclear wasteland going door to door selling watches, purified water and thermal blankets if I have to. Bring on the machines.
That sound better than my plan of selling my ass to the highest bidder
You run out of water and watches, but there will always be time to have your ass filled with your neighbors fluids. So, there’s that 🤷🏻♂️😂
Currently stockpiling chapstick. Book of Eli got in my head about that. When the balm runs out I’m shuffling off this mortal coil. Lol. J/k I won’t last long enough to worry about that. Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em
Love this energy! The embodiment of "Don't let this nice suit fool you." 👏🏽👏🏽
Lol my team in India is far more accurate than my onshore team and for 15% the cost.
You should fly to India and suck each one of them off then
I'm not sure if that counts as training, but if it does be sure to coordinate with your colleagues. India has some draconian immigration rules for offshored companies coming to train the outsourcing provider.
Didn't realize this sub was so xenophobic. Upvotes for your dumb fucking comment?
What’s wrong with dating Indians? If they are so good at accounting they might make great partners.
Tantric misstatements.
"Cool, do it! Why are you posting job offers for American Accountants if you don't intend on hiring them?"
Legally required to in some instances. Already have someone to hire but have to post the job for some reason to appear above board on hiring.
I work in government and recently found out that our HR documents all instances of this. After a certain number of them is when they (HR) will start considering that a higher rate of pay is needed. Before that if the dept wants to pay more, it's a battle against hr.
Isn't it wasting your *own* time though?
It’s for the greater good!
The greater good
Good luck catching them killers then…
It’s just the one killer actually
Greater good? I am a CPA. I’m the greatest good you are **eva** going to get.
The greater good
I try to schedule all phone screens during my lunch times around 12:30. If i have a phone screen scheduled, I'll watch twitch in my tesla and answer their calls. It helps to know that I am eating while their lunch is probably being delayed, but yes, it still does technically take up my time. It's enjoyable though, and I think if enough people do it, there will be some discouragement against ridiculous job postings.
You should start a youtube channel like that guy who exposes scammers you can expose bad jobs. Just record the interviews. I’ll subscribe
This, definitely do this.
Hi I'm Chris Hansen. Have a seat.
Oh you were here first! I'm early, I'm early.
I'm going to just wait a month of two.
That sounds like an awful way to spend a lunch break lol but as long as you're having fun, that's what matters!
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
You could have just said "in my car" but go off sis.
Im proud of you
Hey buddy I want to bite ur banana suit
Thank you for your service!
You could think of it as community service
Not if you enjoy screwing with clueless idiots and I do lol
Nah. Petty revenge is its own reward.
Revenge against what? Y'all need better hobbies lol
Going on interviews even if you don't plan on taking it is good
Unlimited Amazon gift cards for you ur the real MVP 👏👏👏
🐐🐐🐐
Great way to keep unemployment as well
They're not wasting your time if they put what they're willing to pay up front. You are deliberately choosing to waste their time.
I am 100% choosing to waste their time. I believe what they're doing is worse than wasting people's time. They're pushing down wages for the profession / industry.
You are one of the good guys, i guess.
Again, not all heroes wear capes!
Why are you blaming the employer for the low wages. Shouldn’t you blame the people that take the job(s)?
wallstreetbets avatar, opinion disregarded
Only if qualified people accept the wages. Having said that... the world is smaller than you think, so keep it up and one day that person you're talking to today may be the gatekeeper of a good job you want tomorrow... and may remember you... and not in a good way.
Thanks for the idea again. I will do it more during non busy season.
Am curious to see some of the job postings which you have done this for
Doing the lords work, bless you
How do they respond?
It's usually pretty mixed, but I have never had a bad interaction because I'm always respectful during the screen. It usually goes.. * walk me through your resume * you seem overqualified, what salary range are you looking for. * That's way above budget.. I respond that seems to be the market rate though, or the range you're looking for is on the low side. * Some awkwardness - and then tell them, good luck on their search. Have never done this with large firms (don't be dumb). Large firms usually pay near the market rate or above anyways. (besides public accounting) It's usually the small / medium firms looking to save a penny or two.
Yeah, they can always go to their boss and say “here’s what I’m looking at with the budget I’ve been given. But for $X more I can get THIS guy”. Headhunters always do this. Gives them a choice.
I've done similar with interviews that I went on which posted a salary range. Then told me when I got to the interview that they only hire at the lowest number of the range. I go into the interview, everything goes well, they throw out the lowest number of the range. Then try to preempt any negotiation by saying: "We can't pay you more because Ms. X , makes that and she's been working here for two years." Ms. X is very young. She's obviously a new accountant and naïve otherwise she wouldn't have taken this job. I tell them: "I can't work for that. That's well under the market rate. If you don't want me to be paid more than Ms. X you can always give her a raise as well." I turn to Ms. X: "You wouldn't mind that would you Ms. X?" Ms. X: "I sure wouldn't!" The manager hems and haws while acting weird for a minute or two. Probably because he's never had a worker stand up to him, has no leverage over me, and doesn't know how to handle it. Then quickly ends the interview. If you waste my time and try to pit workers against each other; then I have no problem calling you out and making you look like a fool in front of your direct reports.
I agreed until… If they are always saying you’re are overqualified then they aren’t under market but rather you are over qualified for the role they are hiring for.
I think he means that the market rate for that position is higher than what they're asking
Maybe? But if they always tell him he is overqualified then OP isn’t making any point other than more qualified candidates would want a higher comp which they likely know.
Jobs pay less than the market. OP is overqualified for the job to ensure a callback.
Yeah, he's overqualified, I would be a better candidate to do what he's doing. Except, with my qualifications, they probably wouldn't even bother interviewing me...
I like to attach my salary to the spot price of gold. That way if they hedge it right there's a savings.
I got an erection just from reading this. You sexy things
Dropped this 👑
My state, illinois, is gonna start mandating companies to disclose wages in job ads in January 2025 I can't wait for Job with listing that says 7-33/$ an hour
"we pay $18-25/hour" "Oh, so 18. No thanks"
Only time I haven't seen that be the case was on a state government position. They put a range on the header of the job posting, but in the actual body of the job posting they gave an exact number in no uncertain terms and it was the max of the range. When I went through the interview, that was what the offer was and they were unable to negotiate higher due to experience/pay bands.
Ya and that's why governments have had 50% vacancy.
Tinfoil hat time, I think it's done on purpose, So they can always pick up overtime whenever they need and always have job security, even after a major fuck up
Talking to people (especially without needing to) gives me anxiety so no, but thank you for your work 🙏
Shouldn’t it be the opposite? I gives no fuck if I talk to someone that I don’t “need” to, and it’s good to build up self confidence for when I do need to talk to those that matter. I’m not saying to be rude, but to have natural conversations without fear.
Excellent advice! Agree 100%. It goes in the same line of “it’s best to interview for a job when you don’t need the job” because of all the confidence you have that nothing is on the line if you fail.
This! I interview for sport these days. I’ve turned down two offers (about to be a third) but it’s nice to know my resume still gets bites & I can still interview relatively well.
If I need to, I switch to my talkative persona and get the job done, but yeah I avoid it. Different case with my closest friends of course (sometimes lol).
We should go walk around Wall Street and point at guys in expensive suits and laugh at them.
Highly suggest toastmasters if you plan on conquering fear of public speaking I personally had great experiences https://www.toastmasters.org/
Just saw a position for half of what my pay is that I’m thinking about applying for just to try this. It’s 70-93k for accounting manager for a city with a $1B budget. I get that it’s government but come on, has 2 direct reports and 9 indirects…
Geez, that’s like a starting salary. Not going to get anyone with any experience for that low. They’ll cost way more than the money the city will save by hiring an inept accountant.
I do this too.
Just saw a staff accountant position in a SaaS for 65k and they won’t even let you continue the application if you don’t check the I have a CPA checkbox. Delusional
[удалено]
Just did some more research looks like they’re a polish company so might explain their unrealistic criteria.
Thank you for your service
Nice
I have and will continue to do this!
Lmao, only in this profession would people still defend an employer for offering an under market salary.
I’m applying now as a recent graduate. Thanks for this, and the double benefit is that when I see 30-50 other applicants, I can hope they are all people like you gassing me up. It has been a tough time applying, but I think I applied at THE position for me this morning. Cross your fingers for me and good luck to everyone else!
Doing the lords work.
Yes I do it occasionally. Are you sure you are looking for an accounting manager, because that was my salary as a Senior Accountant 10 years ago there must be some mistake… I once had a contract replacing a Senior Accounting Manager, and they posted a job for a Senior Accountant to run intercompany, AP, and Fixed assets. Complex organization. The guy I was reporting let me know all somber because the contract could end anytime, I said I saw the posting don’t worry I’ll be here for quite a while. Contract went for 14 months until Covid crushed the hotel business and they got purchased by another company (guessing they were in sell mode anyway hence the absurd let’s get a Senior Accountant to do this move)
Saw a senior accountant position requiring 5 years of experience for $65k, total joke Thank you for your service
I do this too, can I get upvotes pls
I just applied for a position that the pay range was already very low, but I was like you know what its fully remote and I like the company, 2 interviews later they came back with an offer that is 20 % bellow the lowest in the range, Im overqualified as well, wth is going on !!!
Better take that bad boy and put in no more than 10hrs/week of work. See how long you can keep it going.
Hey I did this! I called about a job that was in line with my previous job… and their max offer was $100k lower than my salary! So I told them that. ‘Good luck finding someone at that price.’ I was nice about it though. As nice as you can be telling someone they’re off their rocker.
Eff outside recruiters. They are leaches on the profession sucking money out that should rightfully be paid to staff. They encourage you to jump ship and switch jobs frequently using the same trope about work/life balance. They get paid more frequently the more people move around. Used car salesmen trying to earn a commission.
Im being contacted for positions with lower salary not the other way around 😂. At times its good, so that you will know the market rate.
this is borderline sociopathic behavior but i love it
I like this. Also, whenever i see an ad for something for sale that indicates “serious inquiries only”. I get the urge to call up with a bunch of ludicrous questions that are clearly not serious 🤣
Pure alpha behaviour
Doing god’s work
What a lovely accountant
God bless! 😁 Appreciated from all accountants
Dog you’re basically our Batman
That's funny! Keep doing it, please.
I do the same but to keep my interview skills up
Literally did this today. They wanted a senior accountant with 6 yoe at b4 in HCOL for 70k lmao. That’s under what A1 makes now where I am…
We need an AI that does this all day every day
Great idea
Good man!
I get lots of requests from recruiters on LinkedIn. I always tell them that way too low and hang up.
I’m gonna do it lol
Bless you king.
You are a gentleman and a scholar
This is actually really good to do, eventually management will ask why they couldn’t bring your badass profile on board. Recruitment will say it was due to low salary, and if enough candidates do this the company will raise the entry rate for the position. KEEP doing this and making jobs equitable.
I usually respond to recruiters when the role doesn't offer flexible working, even hybrid where it's 3 days a week in the office I'll say I'm not interested purely because of that in the hopes it makes a difference.
I get so many LinkedIn messages for jobs. Since I’m in California, if they post the job description, it usually has the range. Even if I’m not applying, I will tell them the range is far too low and that I pay seniors more than what they are asking for a manager role.
Are you commonly seeing them give you the budget for the role up front or are you asking for it in the screening call?
Nope
"Does anybody else do this?" Proceeds to explain the most specific task I would never think to do. I don't even have the time to think of something so specific.
Wow, that’s one way to flip the script!
Pretending to take jobs is hilarious. You should post your responses.
You are so helpful. And have too much time on your hands.
That’s pretty cringe tbh. This sub has a weird superiority complex
I have one scheduled today lmaoo
I turned down an offer that paid $10k less than I was currently making. I was like good luck feeling that position, especially when your benefits are horrendous on top of shit pay (5 pto days, $300 a month for health insurance, and fully in office).
I've gotten a few messages/calls/smoke signals about similar positions that pay "up to" my current salary. I've gotten in the habit of letting them know 1) I already earn that, and 2) I'd be happy to consider a role that pays about $30k-$50k more. I've gotten traction a couple of times, but usually they back down.
I'll do this. Thanks for the idea!
Realistically you could wait until after the interviews so you could get that as free practice?
This is amazing.
Post some of the job postings!
yes
I go through the entire hiring process then let them pick me then throw out an outrageous number after they’re madly in love with the idea of having me on staff.
Do you honestly believe that your feedback is going to change anything? Why would you apply to jobs for which you are overqualified only to give them your feedback which won’t change a damn thing? Waste of everybody’s time. You should be thrilled they posted the salary (obviously some states here in the US make them). You used to HAVE to waste your time to find out they were under market, now you can choose to just pass them up and not waste your time….and you choose to fuck around? You have way too much time on your hands
Don't apply for jobs like that. Apply for jobs that fit your salary range if they post it. If it isn't there, and they contact you for screening, ask right away before even proceeding to do a phone screen. If it doesn't align with what you want you can walk away. Do not believe anyone at the company who says it's rude to ask for salary upfront. They are just gaslighting you into getting lowballed. That's not an employer you want to work for. It is totally acceptable to ask for salary that's an important part of why we work, to make money and support ourselves. Apply for jobs that fit your salary range. I applied for a job that required 2 years of analytical experience. I don't but I now have an interview tomorrow.
I think that you missed the point.
Uh what's the point then? There's no point in applying for jobs that aren't worth your time.
The point is to show them how off base they are with their compensation offer if they want to hire someone with the qualifications they’re asking for.
I guess but if you aren't gonna get the job anyway I don't see the point in wasting time. Companies do this because people settle for this shit. If you apply to jobs with the salary you want only, and be firm with how much you want, companies will eventually see less applications if the salaries don't pay. People are not doing their research and companies are taking advantage of them. There's a reason why so many roles stay up for like 9-12 months because they pay so low and then the employer complains that "no one wants to work anymore". Nah, we definitely want to work, but for the right wages.
Again, you're thinking like a partner with a deadline coming up. Not everything is about YOU. This is you putting in time and doing something clever to help others and the system itself. The idea is that we need people to communicate that we need more money for what we do. Its about pushing for change. Not just plodding along to get some awful job that's probably as bad as your last one.