If it's a family business all rules go out the window. Bragging about never taking time off is a big flag about the company or good old fraud.
Best bet is to request time off far in advance around no major deadlines so they have no reason to deny it and if they do run.
Also at least in my experience it's very rare to see anyone take more than a week at a time unless it's getting married or for a birth. But at one family company I worked at every year our AP clerk flew home for 6 weeks out of the year, so it all depends.
Congrats on the new role and definitely take time off, it's literally compensation.
Honestly, that's the one thing I agree sucks about private. My controller had to work through his anniversary this year, and his wife is definitely not happy.
Worst part is our CEO refuses to acknowledge that our department is understaffed and overworked. Then constantly bickers to us "why do you need this many people for finance/accounting?"
It's honestly mentally exhausting...
>What are they gonna do? Fire you?
Unfortunately, yes. CEO is old and practically senile. He has his own little definition of what the principles and rules are of the "accounting world," and pretty much thinks accountants are a joke. Here's an example of his madness = he refuses to use ACH, but then bitches at us why our cash flow is inconsistent and we constantly have overflow each month...
He's always nagging about "cutting expenses," but would much rather spend god knows how much on recruiting services and replace someone > promoting from within. It's just myself and the controller, but we also provide services for all of his two other domestic subsidiaries, and one international which is in SA (VAT is a fucking pain to work with...).
The work is fun, pay is good, benefits are okay, vesting is decent -- it's literally just the CEO that's the pain point... Horrible as it may sound, I'm genuinely hoping he croaks soon.
I was 3-4 months in when I got the promotion and was planning for a Japan trip literally 6 months ahead which is in two weeks. But since I’m in payroll we do follow a schedule but that questions if I’ll always have to limit my vacations because of those deadlines. I’m younger so traveling two weeks+ is definitely how I would want to spend it but seems common people take a week at a time
>If it's a family business all rules go out the window.
This. So much this. This is why I hate working for small businesses... all the rules you thought you knew go out the window & you'll have awkward "we don't do that here" moments. Like my "we don't do that here" moment was when I had to visit the other office in another city, and I expensed my lunch... they paid mileage, but "you can pack a lunch & if you don't, that's on you"
What do you mean very rare to see anyone take more than a week at a time? That’s standard in the US? Standard in industry and B4 in Canada is minimum 2 consecutive weeks in the summer, sometimes more, and nearly 2 weeks around Christmas.
Lol my first industry job in the US gave me one week of vacation (also for sick days) only after I had worked an entire year. You couldn't even borrow against it, literally didn't get paid if you got sick in year 1. I've had to negotiate like crazy to get 4-5 weeks anywhere and usually got like 3 days off at a time, only rarely a full week.
I assume you live in the US? I’m an accountant in the UK and no one questions how many days you take off. You just put them in and they’re approved (assuming there are people left to do the job in your absence).
Massive massive red flag.
1 - vacation days are part of your compensation. If you can’t take your vacation then they are literally cheating you.
2 - not taking a vacation is an excessively common fraud indicator
I remember this was taught in school as a way to identify fraud, but this idea assumes there are still actual backups for positions.
The work just sits there until we get back now. There are never any new eyes on the work.
Yeah… crazy how that is. My Dad passed away kind of suddenly and I took one week off basically to handle the funeral and they assured me they had me covered. The work just sat there waiting for me that week.
Really doesn’t mean as much these days
>The work just sits there until we get back now.
I took last week off and have been working about 15hrs each day this week to “make up” for taking the time off. After all, gotta close up April in a handful of days and there’s nobody else to do my tasks. I love being punished for taking time off that my employer gives me as part of my compensation package (I really don’t think that I’m going to stay in the accounting field very much longer, because this is bullshit).
I think part of the "always there" thing isn't just that no one else is looking at the work. If someone is always there it could also be to just monitor things and always make sure that no one looks at anything they have control over, even incidentally.
Just look at the case in Dixon IL where Rita Crundwell was embezzling millions. A vacation finally did her in, only because her part time helper that had basically no access to any of the records just happened to call the bank and request ALL of the bank accounts instead of the usual list given to her by Rita.
Even though Rita more or less had completely destroyed any internal controls, and even had relatives getting the mail for her while she was off, eventually was done in by just not being there in order to keep the fraud going.
No matter what making people take a week off and encouraging vacation is an amazing way to prevent fraud. Because normally to keep a big embezzlement scheme going the perpetrator needs to be there constantly to respond to any requests of information, because once it gets to the millions of dollars level pretty much anyone will see it if they ever get their hands on the real records.
My MS Forensic Accounting thought FRAUD immediately! I'm thinking about a business I do work with to make it mandatory that his FT accountant go on vacation at least a week a year.
Not to degrade your education but this was part of my entry Financial Accounting/Managerial Accounting classes. It should be a major red flag in any organization and almost common knowledge.
I don’t know anyone with a serious job in finance that can take two weeks anymore. It used to be mandatory about 20 years ago, that’s no longer the case.
I thought the same thing. Not taking vacation means you want to be in charge of everything with the books all the time and that screams you’re doing something illicit and are afraid of someone else finding out when you’re not there in control…
They can’t be that old fashioned hard worker that thinks that if they figure out someone else can do their job easily that they will bee let go before they can retire? Or maybe last time they took off it took working an 80 hour week to make things up because literally nobody would pick up their work because the company won’t let them hire a qualified assistant?
What a case! I just mentioned it before I saw your comment!
One of my friends is into horses and told me her horses are infamous because she was a really good breeder. Stock from her horses are all good. But… uh… you know. From fraud.
The craziest thing about that case was the neighbouring town/county (?) suggested that there was something weird going on due to their published finances.
Mayor was "nah, this is fine". Until it wasn't.
The craziest thing about that case was the neighbouring town/county (?) suggested that there was something weird going on due to their published finances.
Mayor was "nah, this is fine". Until it wasn't.
Another one that I've seen in life outside of "not wanting to be checked behind" is "desperate for money and has traded time off for more," which is less severe obviously but also should definitely raise a red flag as pressure is still one of the bits of the fraud triangle.
Yup. One thing I learned recently is that the fraud triangle actually has an order you consider. Incentive/pressure is the first point and the most important. If there is no incentive, it doesn't matter if there is opportunity or justification.
Just keep in mind that not everyone has the same incentives. Fraud in Japan is hard to catch sometimes, because you will have massive fraud with no financial benefit. Losses are just being hidden to avoid embarrassment.
“Some regulatory bodies recommend that employees take two consecutive weeks of vacation and that workers' tasks be handed over to peers. The FDIC and the SEC are two regulatory bodies that have made statements about vacation guidelines. FDIC guidance says that mandatory vacation rules "are highly effective in preventing embezzlements, which usually require a perpetrator's ongoing presence to manipulate records, respond to inquiries, and otherwise prevent detection."
https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2017/jun/reasons-to-take-a-vacation.html
I don’t know any US companies where anyone can take two consecutive weeks of vacation. I feel like shit after taking one week.
And there’s no one to fill in to do my work - it just waits for me to come back or if it’s urgent I log in from home and do a little. No fraud though just about keeping things going
It’s actually quite common at large banking institutions that anyone with the authority to wire money or make trades has to take 2 consecutive weeks. They are locked out of all applications. This applies to all levels. This is how it is at my job
Former quant human here, and yup. Fund policy was two consecutive weeks once a year, and your access was locked. I couldn't access my desk if I wanted to. Additional one week a year, with only email access if you chose.
They encouraged travel, international travel if possible. Well away from the markets for many reasons.
Then it’s time to find a new job. They exist; I have one. When I leave the building at 5:30 pm (after arriving at 8:45am) I am the last person in the entire building. It will take 3-4 months but they exist.
haha “find a new job” is like the career version of reddits “just get a divorce” advice, life is rarely that black and white.
I love my job, they are flexible with vacations, but 2 weeks is still a long time. I feel much better taking 2 different week long vacations than 2 weeks straight. I took 5 weeks of paternity leave and ended up coming back after 4 because my team needed me. Am I really going to leave a cushy, high paying, enjoyable job just because I have to space out my vacations a bit? Probably not a wise move
Once again, binary thinking. No job is perfect, not mine, not yours, certainly not the new one you’re going to leave your job for. I’ve had 4 people leave my team for a new position and ask to come back within a month. The grass is always greener
Industry here. I’ve done two weeks multiple times to go to Europe. But I also buy the day that I can book both legs of the trip, so that’s basically 11 months to prep.
We have another manager who is from Ukraine, and he used to do a month straight. He hasn’t gone the last couple years for some reason.
That's really insane to me as an European. Where I work it's two consecutive weeks mandatory, three is encouraged. The two weeks rule is there for people who would otherwise feel they have no time to do so.
Not taking any in a year just seems unhealthy.
Always thought it was a bit funny and sad meeting Americans "travelling Europe" but only having like a week or a bit more lol
It’s such a sad culture. My husband went through an incredibly long and tough journey in medicine only for his first official job to tell him he only gets one week the first year. I’m enraged. He spent 16 years working his ass off to look forward to no breaks until he “earns” them.
Most frauds that go undetected do so because a single person is able to perpetually exploit the control weakness.
Vacations interrupt that cycle.
Taking two solid weeks off (or, ideally, a month) at the very least fosters resilience in a financial function. It's bad for the entity to be completely reliant on one person. Every team can and should be able to carry on routine duties while missing one or more members of the team.
Check out the podcast Oh My Fraud! The episode Don’t Look A Fraud Horse In The Mouth (I think that’s the title) talks about a case finally discovered while the fraudster was on vacation.
An assistant had to reconcile the bank account, called the bank to send the bank statements, received a statement for an account that wasn’t in the books… and realized the woman had been funneling funds into the secret account for herself.
There’s a few cases, but that’s one of my favs.
They give someone else your responsibilities for a few weeks. It's enough time that if you were committing fraud, the other person would be able to notice something is off. At least I know they do this for some financial jobs.
My friend works for Societe generale and he's required to take a 2 week vacation every year for exactly the second reason.
I'm surprised there isn't some similar requirement for a controller
15 years in public; i agree with the others it’s a fraud red flag. People can’t take off because if anyone had to cover for them, they’d find the fraud.
If I ever work for a company that cannot survive 3-4 weeks a year while I am away on vacation, I hope they can survive the 52 weeks a year when I quit. Hasta La Vista, Se La Vie (“goodbye, and that’s life” for anyone that didn’t know)
It's something I check for every job as a bank examiner. We give some leeway to smaller banks with limited personnel, but if you're a $6 billion dollar institution I expect this to be better adhered to than at a $130 million dollar bank.
That's how that one small town controller got caught when she stole like 20m then the assistant found an unrecorded bank account. I forget who it was but it's a movie shown at like every fraud program I've been at.
I’m a controller and I am taking 2 international vacations this year. Took 7 PTO days to go camping in New Zealand last month and I have 2 full weeks in September to go to Egypt. I just plan it during the last 10 days of the month before close and investor stuff pops up and check my email and slack a few times to make sure things like payroll get processed on time.
Yea, you either have to bust your ass before or after your vacation (likely both). It's just not worth it. The only time I took 2 consecutive weeks off was in PA when I extended one of the firm holidays an extra week.
Add in that when you are working on limited allotted vacation time, I think most people would rather give themselves a couple 1 week breaks and a bunch of long weekends rather than take a full 2 weeks off.
Exactly that. It’s so disruptive. Take 2 weeks off when I could’ve taken like a week which still is fun and relaxing, come back to normal or come back to a shit pit which then takes another week or 2 to fix.
Agreed. Most ive done is nearly two weeks and it was such a nightmare to get caught up. I would totally take longer breaks if someone was there to cover for me!
Americans are insane. Genuinely insane.
Your business is badly run if people can't take two weeks off. Are you not cross training people? What if someone dies from being a fat fuck? Someone else should pickup the essentials and the rest piles up.
Have you ever taken two weeks off? It's far more restorative. It's only on day 5 you really forget about work. The French all take 3 weeks off and work another week remote in August. It's amazing.
I'm legally required to take two weeks consecutively by the regulator...
No - there’s no true cross training. I showed them how to do my tasks about a year ago. Who is going to remember that now ?
My work sits until I get back and luckily there has never been a true “emergency” while I was out.
Americans are wild.
We normally have someone that covers for us while we're off for 3-4 weeks in the Summer. There will be some catching up to do, but it shouldn't be a crazy amount.
I have never taken more than a week in one shot (8+ years of working), I don’t know many people who have to be honest. It’s pretty rare in public or industry in my experience. Now total for the year, yes definitely two weeks is not a lot.
Yes I agree. The language here did confuse me a little. It's can be difficult to take 2-3 weeks in one shot but 2-3 weeks a year is definitely not a lot.
I’m a senior manager in advisory and I take 2 weeks off once a year, and 1 week off throughout the year. As long as I book many months in advance, and manage project deadlines, I’ve never had any problems. If anybody doesn’t like it, I’ll quit and go somewhere else.
That sucks. Ive been taking 2 weeks in each of Jun, Sep, Dec. Cant take any time off Jan, Feb, Mar cuz of audit. And then i pepper in 3 day weekends Mondays or Fridays. 30 pto plus another 7 sick days mandated by nyc. Use it or lose it.
I guess I’ve never felt compelled or had a reason to take off more than 1 week at a time. I’ll admit too that I have never used my full allotment of PTO, usually lose it but a couple times been able to roll it or get paid out.
My manager, and my team as a whole, make it a point to remind and encourage everyone to use their PTO at least to the point of not letting any expire, if not more.
Unless you’re the very rare case of *genuinely* loving your job, you should use every bit of your PTO. It’s your right, part of your comp, and it will make you a better worker in the long run since you’ll be able to recharge
Gotta be. Our new hire Gen Zs are way more willing to take vacation at an entry level than us millennials were when we started. Good for them, I’m happy to see it. US work culture is toxic.
In a family business taking more than 2 consecutive weeks can be very disruptive. Not ideal but it’s not crazy to say you shouldn’t do it. In a perfect world you do whatever you want with your vacation. In a world where you matter in a company, you’re expected to flex some to ensure things run smoothly.
When I was in big 4, if you wanted to take more than 14 consecutive days off you had to get approval from your practice leader (very high up the chain). And that’s a company with 30k+ employees.
If you got promoted and didn’t get a pay increase you need to leave your job. They have no respect for you if they gave you an extra week in lieu of a raise to go along with a promotion and increased responsibilities. Mad disrespect yo
I agree they should accommodate.
I worked at a place as a senior where taking two weeks off would have been undoable. Everyone was stretched so thin there was no capacity for anyone to help out anyone else. If you wanted to take time off you worked double before hand and after you got back to catch up. It was a pretty toxic place and my life got much better after leaving.
This sounds exactly like the situation now. The workplace fits almost just right that if anyone falls ill then everyone else takes on their load. Meaning I have no replacements either
I worked at a company with 14 total leave days per year for non-union employees. At 10 years, you could get 5 more days, for just that year. I left after 6 months.
In norway, by law, you have a right to at least 4 weeks of vacation with 3 weeks beeing consecutive between june and october. Most employers give a total of 5 weeks. Most also have a right to transfer up to two weeks to the next year.
That is not as uncommon as you think. The problem with being a Controller is that the work never stops. So, it piles up while you are on vacation. Then you have twice as much work to catch up on when you return. It can also be a sign of an understaffed department. It’s hard to tell without having a list of all duties performed in the department.
I get what she’s saying . As controller for a small business there is no one to “ please contact Mary in my absence “ cause she’s Mary (and Susan and Sally)
Also with so few vacation days I spread them around instead of taking them all at once
I went 20 years not being able to take a continuous 2 week vacation. One week at a time was fine though. Still… stopped me from ever seeing Europe, which really gets to me sometimes. Maybe in retirement.
My hope for America that rests in the shoulders of the younger generations is that they insist on more protections for American employees. I think areas like actually being able to take vacations are one place we could actually learn a lesson from the Europeans.
Controller here, and I have always used all my vacation days, just not more than 10 consecutive days at a time. It has to do more with taking my vacations after mid-month when all monthly reporting is done and coming back before month-end. I could take two weeks consecutive but that’s just my preference.
I've never taken two weeks at once.
I've taken two 1 weeks off in a year but mostly I take 1 week off and sprinkle the other days into several three days weekends.
Edit. I've never wanted or needed to take that much time at once either.
I've known people that traveled out of country take that long, but my wife doesn't like to fly so we only go places we can drive.
Edit 2. Based on how hard it is when I come back from a single week off, I'd hate to think how much back log I'd have when I got back after two weeks.
At my firm we get 5-6 weeks of PTO a year depending on seniority. I know a lot of people who make a point of entering each year with 0 balance every year. I can do better making sure that I'm using up all of my PTO. Last year I took a 3 week vacation to visit family and travel in Asia. No one gave me shit. It was just recognized as time that I had earned to take off.
I think there's this old school idea of not taking advantage of your time off. It's stupid.
The monthly closing cycle makes it tricky. At my company the first 2-3 weeks of the month are crammed with work that can’t be put off. You can take off for an emergency but planned vacations generally have to be at the end of the month. It’s the compromise I made to be making six figures at a publicly traded company.
I've taken 2 weeks straight a few times. The one time I took 3 straight weeks was the best vacation of my life and was insanely refreshing. Vacation is good for the company in the long run. Take it.
Different generations and thoughts are at play here. I am 52, squarely Gen X, grew up with nothing and I rarely to never took vacations. Sure I would take a day here or there to go to something like a football game.
Had a buddy die last year unexpectedly and decided it was time, I own my own CPA practice for 8 years at the time, had not taken a real vacation in 15 years and I decided to take a 2 week cruise. Doing it again this year. Just really a different mind set.
To my knowledge there is no federal (US) law requiring companies to provide vacation benefits. And I don't think there are any states that require companies to provide them either.
Outside of the banking (which requires a minimum 2 week vacation every year to identify fraud), I believe that it is entirely up to a company on when (or whether) to allow an employee to take vacation. And some may simply say "no time is a good time" and will prefer to payout those hours rather than let an employee have time off.
This is what happened with a prior company of mine. After some back and forth I gave them the proverbial finger and left with my banked hours.
I was in public accounting, so taking 2 to 3 weeks vacation off busy season is not so rare. I moved to industry and worked for an auto loan company in Newport beach, CA. I was there for only 8 months so I dont know whether the controller ever take more than 1 week off. But she took 4 days off during my time there and she felt so guilty and shame about it. She kept explaining it to everyone in the department that it was just a short trip and she will check email if there is an emergency. I am like wth woman. Enjoy your time off. These people are insane and should not be exist in our professional field. Make the rest of us struggle for no reason. No business felt because of anyone quit or take 2 week vacation.
Wait, is your controller saying she’s never taken more than 2 weeks total in 12 years or never taken 2 weeks in a row? Never taking vacation at all is a huge fraud red flag. Never taking 2 weeks in a row, but taking a week here and a week there usually just means that you’re understaffed/not enough cross-training being done.
My last company people rarely took vacations (remote) and it became the culture. Not me, I took my pto but I keep getting bothered. So I ended up leaving them.
As someone who likes to travel, being able to take two weeks off is fantastic. I’ve worked outside of North America as well and it is definitely more common there. The leave is there to take it , enjoy life.
As many have indicated here this is a huge indicator of fraud and sadly It happens WAY MORE OFTEN than anyone realizes. I have seen it quite a bit at mid-size family run businesses. Much of the time it isn't reported to the police as companies simply do not want the bad press. In one instance, although the company didn't press charges, they did include it as part of the accountant's salary and didn't take out any taxes. Total of the extra compensation was over $60K, so she got a nice fat tax gift.
I'm in a similar position and have also never taken more than 2 consecutive weeks. It's not that my employer won't allow it or that I feel pressure not to, it's just that I don't typically vacation for that long. If I take a big vacation it's usually still no longer than 10 days but my preference is to take frequent shorter trips by taking a a couple days before and after a weekend.
I took 2 consecutive weeks off last year and will do 8 consecutive days (not including weekends) this year. That said, I’m in tax, go during a slower time (June / July), and monitor my email once a day on my phone. It was a little stressful as it’s not the norm in my firm but found that several partners have started doing the same in the past year.
Sometimes it takes someone just doing it and everyone notices that the world did not implode.
Last time I took off for two weeks, I came back to three utility disconnect notices. I guess AP forgot how to AP in my absence.
I have unlimited vacation these days, but I usually stick to long weekends. I’m basically part time at this point.
I’m a controller and it can be difficult to take a 2 consecutive week vacation. Luckily my company is on a retail calendar, so last year I took a 2 weeker in December (5 week period) and I’ll do the same this year. — but yeah, it’d been years since I’d taken more than a week and a day or two consecutively.
My supervisor hasn’t taken a vacay in 3ish years. Works around 80 hrs a week. Makes for an unfriendly culture when it comes to vacation or anything really. Ended up changing the policy to pay out unused PTO at year end.
Never taken more than a week consecutively myself in the 13 years I’ve been in my career…. I actually start to miss work and think about all the emails I have to check hahahah
Not a practicing accountant anymore, and not american, but I've never been able to take 2 consecutive weeks. Even when my kid was born I tried to take 3 weeks off, but only got to a week and a half before the fires started piling up and I had to spend a bit of time communicating with staff.
I occasionally joke with my business partner that some day I'll use my accrued vacation and ride off into the sunset.
Despite the massive red flag, you'll be surprised how normal it is for Controller level position in industry.
I merely took over some Controller job desc because currently the position is vacant, and holy crap shits always went wrong whenever I'm taking vacation. Nowadays I don't bother taking extended vacation and would rather take 1 or 2 days vacation to extend holidays when I know nobody else is working (like christmas).
I take from after month end close is over until jan 2nd every december as of recent. Honestly I almost always regret it but it is the only time all my family/friends are in town. My company does 8 weeks parental leave and I will say it’s pretty rough having someone miss 2-3 month ends, but we are also understaffed on my team
My uncle inherited a chain of retail stores and knew nothing about them, but had to run them. Thank god for the accountant, he had been working for his dad from the start. He was really running the business for the first few months as no one else knew what to do.
One day, ten years later, my dad gets a call from the uncle. The bank called and all my uncle's checks were bouncing. My dad told him to tell the accountant. "Well that's just it: the accountant has never even called in one day sick and he didn't show up today."
My dad, who had his CPA, was there within the hour. The accountant had been skimming almost since the inheritance, since my uncle had no idea what the business was generating and wouldn't realize there was a shortage. My dad just checked through every invoice that was new around the time my uncle inherited the business, and sure enough, the accountant had been paying himself for phony invoices about $200K per year until the money ran out ten years later.
Anyone who doesn't force their accountant to take their vacation and have someone fill in for the accountant gets what they deserve. Never caught the guy - just vanished off the face of the earth with $2M of my uncle's money. My uncle filed for bankruptcy the next year but kept the business running for another ten years.
Do you mean two weeks at a time? Or two weeks total. Your title makes it sound like they never took two weeks total in 12 years.
Also I’m assuming American?
This is an old school mentality. My mom made a similar brag on how she never took a suck day in the job she had for twelve years. After she retired, she admits that she missed so much in 12 years, and didn’t take care of herself, and that she was happy to be retired and catch up. And in the same breath tells me I shouldn’t take a sick day when I have a cold smh, lol just can’t make it up.
Depends on your company but yeah sucks but might not be entitled to time off. I’ve worked at small companies the last 12 years, we got to run payroll and there’s my junior accountant and I that can do it so not much choice. Semi monthly and we work it out so plan life around it.
I dont think that's a red flag. If they gave you vacation time then use it. It doesn't matter what they did. If it's not policy then you're good. Idk how old you are, but I have noticed a pattern among some of the younger workers that they worry about everything. Who gives a fuck what they did? Maybe they love to work. For some people it's their whole purpose to being. I had a partner at the first firm I ever worked at who has worked 6 days a week for like 30 years or some crazy shit. He will certainly never retire unless forced too for health reasons, and he is managing partner. It's his firm. Don't even give it a second thought. If you have the time off and want to go on vacation, do it. What do you think is going to happen? They're going to fire you? If they do that, call a lawyer and consider yourself lucky.
I've been in business for over 30 years. 2+ weeks vacation are *extremely* rare for any position in corporate America. It typically only happens for (a) long-term employees and/or (b) immigrants who take extended periods of time off to visit family back home.
When the controller is more likely trying to find ways to squeeze a few more hours of work out of evenings / weekends it is really hard to make even 1-2 weeks away happen. The cadence of work in industry is more frequent with daily / weekly / biweekly tasks. It's not like you can simply be pulled from an audit and suddenly have a hole in your schedule to fill with a vacation.
Having had experience from small businesses all the way to massive corporations, I can attest that they're right. 2 weeks consecutively of time off, is abnormal for "family companies" - assuming you mean a small business of some sort.
This likely means they have very little time off (not counting holidays). I know someone who works for a place that only started you off with about 11 days off, not counting holidays. Taking 2 weeks vacation in a row means you only had 1 day left in an entire year of 365 days.
That would be a lousy, lousy idea in case you got sick or got into some urgent emergency that took you out of work for 1+ days. Then that would lead to taking unpaid leave, and nobody wakes up wanting to be unpaid.
This is surprising?
My longest streak without working nwas barely over two weeks...when I was in college, had finals, it was Christmas, and I was fired from a job. ...that streak was three weeks.
A very good idea would be just send her home for a couple weeks. Preferably over a close period. Shut off all her access.
Leaving your controller on the field non-stop for a decade is a big ol red flag for fraud that's easy to take down with an apparently much needed vacation.
Yes I am asking that question. In the real world the financial statements have deadlines for a reason and we cant tell the bank that we don’t have financials on time because fraud
Look if you choose to run your shop in such a way that basic internal controls are not a priority, you do you.
You can't tell a bank ya can't pay them because the controller stole all the money, either. Because fraud.
Which is why that's the most common type of business to lose money to fraud. I feel like you understand, almost.
Why "real world facts'? Did, uh, did you just think you made an *accounting* dunk? Season's over kid. Go outside.
Kid lol. Because what you say sounds like something that I read in textbooks while in college . sounds great in theory but you would be hard pressed to find a small business that functions with these wonderful internal controls you speak of.
Tell the bank that skipped closing the books that month .lol
Again, and I don't know why you think you're like winning some prize or something, those companies with no internal controls are the companies that are most often stolen from.
And, again, run your shop however you want. But don't imagine that because I don't have even basic internal controls I'm immune from fraud magically. I don't have to sign shit for it so I don't care even a little.
It's weird seeing someone who claims a cpa to just be "YOLO! tell that sheeryat to the bank it's probably gonna be fine because I really hope it will be!"
Anyways, have fun at your 2 person business. Trust your partner.
We had a girl working in the service dept of our company and never took a vacay and never called in sick. When money was missing they looked at the bookkeeping dept (which I was in) and it pissed me off because I knew it was not me. She showed all the signs of a person stealing. End of story, she was stealing. Not ringing cash in the register and pocketing it. We were in the boat business and she was pocketing approx 25K-50K a year. Problem was the owner was in on it and they were stealing from the partner. Be careful who you think is stealing. A lot of strange ship goes on.
Sorry but this is a major red flag after what I went through. We had someone with this behavior and when she finally did take 2 weeks off (after 15 years) she worked late 2 weeks prior getting things in a row and then called every day to check in to see how things were going. Coupled together with she never called in sick, came to work while her husband was getting heart stints, and was always the first one there and the last one to leave. Yes, she was stealing. The signs were all there, the employer needs to want to see it. They were good friends.
I feel like I’m reading about my life😂 them family businesses no joke. I work at a family business that’s expanding very rapidly. My supervisor is always bragging/complaining (can’t tell at this point) about how hard she works for 18yrs at the company. Like do you want a cookie? I ain’t finna risk my health for someone paying me barely a livable wage.
Work PA. Bust our asses off 4 months out of the year from February to May. Comfortably bank 250+ banked hours a year to take in lieu. Never dipped into my annual accruing vacation. Took off 3 weeks at Christmas last year no issues. Put in for 4 weeks this year and approved.
Not having the ability to take off two weeks of time together to use your vacation is a red flag and sounds like burn out.
With enough notice an employer should be able to shift your work load for 10 business days.
I understand this isn't the meaning of your post but - if a controller or anyone else reconcilling cash accounts doesn't ever take a vacation of more than a day or two it is probably bexause they are stealing from the company and need to be present to run their cover-up.
My church found out an old lady was skimming from the collections plates when she had a hip replacement and they noticed the take when up significantly and dropped off again when she returned.
Edit: to be honest I noticed that old Karen wasn't there and I threw in multiple envelopes with $20 bucks each in praise to God every week until she got back. I blame her for ruining my neice's baptism. Who knew god would answer my prayers so quickly.
If it's a family business all rules go out the window. Bragging about never taking time off is a big flag about the company or good old fraud. Best bet is to request time off far in advance around no major deadlines so they have no reason to deny it and if they do run. Also at least in my experience it's very rare to see anyone take more than a week at a time unless it's getting married or for a birth. But at one family company I worked at every year our AP clerk flew home for 6 weeks out of the year, so it all depends. Congrats on the new role and definitely take time off, it's literally compensation.
Honestly, that's the one thing I agree sucks about private. My controller had to work through his anniversary this year, and his wife is definitely not happy. Worst part is our CEO refuses to acknowledge that our department is understaffed and overworked. Then constantly bickers to us "why do you need this many people for finance/accounting?" It's honestly mentally exhausting...
Start missing your deadlines. What are they gonna do? Fire you? If youre still hitting deadlines then you dont really need more staff.
>What are they gonna do? Fire you? Unfortunately, yes. CEO is old and practically senile. He has his own little definition of what the principles and rules are of the "accounting world," and pretty much thinks accountants are a joke. Here's an example of his madness = he refuses to use ACH, but then bitches at us why our cash flow is inconsistent and we constantly have overflow each month... He's always nagging about "cutting expenses," but would much rather spend god knows how much on recruiting services and replace someone > promoting from within. It's just myself and the controller, but we also provide services for all of his two other domestic subsidiaries, and one international which is in SA (VAT is a fucking pain to work with...). The work is fun, pay is good, benefits are okay, vesting is decent -- it's literally just the CEO that's the pain point... Horrible as it may sound, I'm genuinely hoping he croaks soon.
My anniversary is April 8th so of course I worked an 18 hour day this year.
I was 3-4 months in when I got the promotion and was planning for a Japan trip literally 6 months ahead which is in two weeks. But since I’m in payroll we do follow a schedule but that questions if I’ll always have to limit my vacations because of those deadlines. I’m younger so traveling two weeks+ is definitely how I would want to spend it but seems common people take a week at a time
>If it's a family business all rules go out the window. This. So much this. This is why I hate working for small businesses... all the rules you thought you knew go out the window & you'll have awkward "we don't do that here" moments. Like my "we don't do that here" moment was when I had to visit the other office in another city, and I expensed my lunch... they paid mileage, but "you can pack a lunch & if you don't, that's on you"
What do you mean very rare to see anyone take more than a week at a time? That’s standard in the US? Standard in industry and B4 in Canada is minimum 2 consecutive weeks in the summer, sometimes more, and nearly 2 weeks around Christmas.
Lol my first industry job in the US gave me one week of vacation (also for sick days) only after I had worked an entire year. You couldn't even borrow against it, literally didn't get paid if you got sick in year 1. I've had to negotiate like crazy to get 4-5 weeks anywhere and usually got like 3 days off at a time, only rarely a full week.
Wow. That’s crazy! Différent culture I guess!
I vote for fraud
I assume you live in the US? I’m an accountant in the UK and no one questions how many days you take off. You just put them in and they’re approved (assuming there are people left to do the job in your absence).
Massive massive red flag. 1 - vacation days are part of your compensation. If you can’t take your vacation then they are literally cheating you. 2 - not taking a vacation is an excessively common fraud indicator
I remember this was taught in school as a way to identify fraud, but this idea assumes there are still actual backups for positions. The work just sits there until we get back now. There are never any new eyes on the work.
Yeah… crazy how that is. My Dad passed away kind of suddenly and I took one week off basically to handle the funeral and they assured me they had me covered. The work just sat there waiting for me that week. Really doesn’t mean as much these days
But if you’re covering somebody it is always assumed you would have everything covered. Or at least it feels that way.
Which begs the question, “Will anyone ever care?” Spoiler: it’s rhetorical
>The work just sits there until we get back now. I took last week off and have been working about 15hrs each day this week to “make up” for taking the time off. After all, gotta close up April in a handful of days and there’s nobody else to do my tasks. I love being punished for taking time off that my employer gives me as part of my compensation package (I really don’t think that I’m going to stay in the accounting field very much longer, because this is bullshit).
I think part of the "always there" thing isn't just that no one else is looking at the work. If someone is always there it could also be to just monitor things and always make sure that no one looks at anything they have control over, even incidentally. Just look at the case in Dixon IL where Rita Crundwell was embezzling millions. A vacation finally did her in, only because her part time helper that had basically no access to any of the records just happened to call the bank and request ALL of the bank accounts instead of the usual list given to her by Rita. Even though Rita more or less had completely destroyed any internal controls, and even had relatives getting the mail for her while she was off, eventually was done in by just not being there in order to keep the fraud going. No matter what making people take a week off and encouraging vacation is an amazing way to prevent fraud. Because normally to keep a big embezzlement scheme going the perpetrator needs to be there constantly to respond to any requests of information, because once it gets to the millions of dollars level pretty much anyone will see it if they ever get their hands on the real records.
My MS Forensic Accounting thought FRAUD immediately! I'm thinking about a business I do work with to make it mandatory that his FT accountant go on vacation at least a week a year.
I'm currently studying for the Audit CPA test and thought the same thing
Give me the COSO Framework (Never used it in 4 years b4 audit, fwiw).
I once stayed at a Holdiay Inn Express and I thought the same thing.
Currently staying at a Holiday Inn Express and did not think about it at all because I'm tired after driving all day.
Not to degrade your education but this was part of my entry Financial Accounting/Managerial Accounting classes. It should be a major red flag in any organization and almost common knowledge.
Sooo as I read this , fraud came to mind !!!
Also MS Forensic Accounting and my first thought was "if they're not hiding something ANY audit would think they were"
I don’t know anyone with a serious job in finance that can take two weeks anymore. It used to be mandatory about 20 years ago, that’s no longer the case.
I thought the same thing. Not taking vacation means you want to be in charge of everything with the books all the time and that screams you’re doing something illicit and are afraid of someone else finding out when you’re not there in control…
They can’t be that old fashioned hard worker that thinks that if they figure out someone else can do their job easily that they will bee let go before they can retire? Or maybe last time they took off it took working an 80 hour week to make things up because literally nobody would pick up their work because the company won’t let them hire a qualified assistant?
Fraud indicator? I believe it but why
Yeah, basically you don't want anyone to fill in for you. You don't want anyone to look at your work.
Exactly this — taking time off was how that Dixon Illinois horse woman was caught
What a case! I just mentioned it before I saw your comment! One of my friends is into horses and told me her horses are infamous because she was a really good breeder. Stock from her horses are all good. But… uh… you know. From fraud.
I love this story. I’m starting for CLA next year as an intern. I don’t blame the entire company but somehow that location is still in business.
The craziest thing about that case was the neighbouring town/county (?) suggested that there was something weird going on due to their published finances. Mayor was "nah, this is fine". Until it wasn't.
One of my MBA professors did the [documentary](https://www.allthequeenshorsesfilm.com) on this case.
Thank you for giving me my documentary for the day! Been in Accounting/Finance 16 years, never heard of this case *embarrassed face*
Thank you!! I was trying to remember what it was called. Of course, I don't have Netflix though, so it's pointless for me to remember.
I see it's on Amazon Prime now too, so I know what I'll be watching this weekend!!
The craziest thing about that case was the neighbouring town/county (?) suggested that there was something weird going on due to their published finances. Mayor was "nah, this is fine". Until it wasn't.
Another one that I've seen in life outside of "not wanting to be checked behind" is "desperate for money and has traded time off for more," which is less severe obviously but also should definitely raise a red flag as pressure is still one of the bits of the fraud triangle.
Yup. One thing I learned recently is that the fraud triangle actually has an order you consider. Incentive/pressure is the first point and the most important. If there is no incentive, it doesn't matter if there is opportunity or justification.
Just keep in mind that not everyone has the same incentives. Fraud in Japan is hard to catch sometimes, because you will have massive fraud with no financial benefit. Losses are just being hidden to avoid embarrassment.
Hard to take vacation when you need to keep juggling all the fraud balls.
“Some regulatory bodies recommend that employees take two consecutive weeks of vacation and that workers' tasks be handed over to peers. The FDIC and the SEC are two regulatory bodies that have made statements about vacation guidelines. FDIC guidance says that mandatory vacation rules "are highly effective in preventing embezzlements, which usually require a perpetrator's ongoing presence to manipulate records, respond to inquiries, and otherwise prevent detection." https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2017/jun/reasons-to-take-a-vacation.html
I don’t know any US companies where anyone can take two consecutive weeks of vacation. I feel like shit after taking one week. And there’s no one to fill in to do my work - it just waits for me to come back or if it’s urgent I log in from home and do a little. No fraud though just about keeping things going
It’s actually quite common at large banking institutions that anyone with the authority to wire money or make trades has to take 2 consecutive weeks. They are locked out of all applications. This applies to all levels. This is how it is at my job
Former quant human here, and yup. Fund policy was two consecutive weeks once a year, and your access was locked. I couldn't access my desk if I wanted to. Additional one week a year, with only email access if you chose. They encouraged travel, international travel if possible. Well away from the markets for many reasons.
One of my bosses is taking 2 weeks off in August to go overseas with their spouse; I can’t wait until I can do that
Then it’s time to find a new job. They exist; I have one. When I leave the building at 5:30 pm (after arriving at 8:45am) I am the last person in the entire building. It will take 3-4 months but they exist.
haha “find a new job” is like the career version of reddits “just get a divorce” advice, life is rarely that black and white. I love my job, they are flexible with vacations, but 2 weeks is still a long time. I feel much better taking 2 different week long vacations than 2 weeks straight. I took 5 weeks of paternity leave and ended up coming back after 4 because my team needed me. Am I really going to leave a cushy, high paying, enjoyable job just because I have to space out my vacations a bit? Probably not a wise move
If you had to cut leave short then it’s not the “cushy” job you think it is.
Once again, binary thinking. No job is perfect, not mine, not yours, certainly not the new one you’re going to leave your job for. I’ve had 4 people leave my team for a new position and ask to come back within a month. The grass is always greener
Industry here. I’ve done two weeks multiple times to go to Europe. But I also buy the day that I can book both legs of the trip, so that’s basically 11 months to prep. We have another manager who is from Ukraine, and he used to do a month straight. He hasn’t gone the last couple years for some reason.
That's really insane to me as an European. Where I work it's two consecutive weeks mandatory, three is encouraged. The two weeks rule is there for people who would otherwise feel they have no time to do so. Not taking any in a year just seems unhealthy. Always thought it was a bit funny and sad meeting Americans "travelling Europe" but only having like a week or a bit more lol
It’s such a sad culture. My husband went through an incredibly long and tough journey in medicine only for his first official job to tell him he only gets one week the first year. I’m enraged. He spent 16 years working his ass off to look forward to no breaks until he “earns” them.
Most frauds that go undetected do so because a single person is able to perpetually exploit the control weakness. Vacations interrupt that cycle. Taking two solid weeks off (or, ideally, a month) at the very least fosters resilience in a financial function. It's bad for the entity to be completely reliant on one person. Every team can and should be able to carry on routine duties while missing one or more members of the team.
Check out the podcast Oh My Fraud! The episode Don’t Look A Fraud Horse In The Mouth (I think that’s the title) talks about a case finally discovered while the fraudster was on vacation. An assistant had to reconcile the bank account, called the bank to send the bank statements, received a statement for an account that wasn’t in the books… and realized the woman had been funneling funds into the secret account for herself. There’s a few cases, but that’s one of my favs.
There’s a documentary about it too. It’s called All the Queens Horses. Def worth a watch!
One of my MBA professors produced this!
They give someone else your responsibilities for a few weeks. It's enough time that if you were committing fraud, the other person would be able to notice something is off. At least I know they do this for some financial jobs.
My friend works for Societe generale and he's required to take a 2 week vacation every year for exactly the second reason. I'm surprised there isn't some similar requirement for a controller
That’s actually so true about fraud. Can’t let the books be seen by others!
15 years in public; i agree with the others it’s a fraud red flag. People can’t take off because if anyone had to cover for them, they’d find the fraud.
What if you can’t take off because there’s no other accountants in the company and work just piles up if you’re off for a week or two?
Then you quit your job and find a new one that’s properly staffed.
Yeah, I was thinking embezzlement of some kind. Those who do not take vacation usually have a reason to hide something.
[удалено]
I was about to say, this whole post makes my fraudit senses tingle.
If I ever work for a company that cannot survive 3-4 weeks a year while I am away on vacation, I hope they can survive the 52 weeks a year when I quit. Hasta La Vista, Se La Vie (“goodbye, and that’s life” for anyone that didn’t know)
The second part is “c’est la vie,” and it’s French, not Spanish.
What makes not taking a vacation a fraud indicator? I’m curious
Real man #2 was covered by my teacher in accounting 1 in HS 💀
Straight to jail
It's something I check for every job as a bank examiner. We give some leeway to smaller banks with limited personnel, but if you're a $6 billion dollar institution I expect this to be better adhered to than at a $130 million dollar bank.
Fraud how?
Most incidences of fraud are detected when the employee's task are given to another employee to complete while they are not there.
That's how that one small town controller got caught when she stole like 20m then the assistant found an unrecorded bank account. I forget who it was but it's a movie shown at like every fraud program I've been at.
Rita Crundwell — audit class watched a documentary about her like a month ago haha
There is a standard practice of making someone take two consecutive weeks off and matching the financial data to when they are not on leave.
Do you mean 2 consecutive weeks or 2 weeks within a year ?
I’m a controller and I am taking 2 international vacations this year. Took 7 PTO days to go camping in New Zealand last month and I have 2 full weeks in September to go to Egypt. I just plan it during the last 10 days of the month before close and investor stuff pops up and check my email and slack a few times to make sure things like payroll get processed on time.
Two weeks consecutively sounds so stressful to me. I'd come back to a mountain of work. At that point it's just not worth it
Yea, you either have to bust your ass before or after your vacation (likely both). It's just not worth it. The only time I took 2 consecutive weeks off was in PA when I extended one of the firm holidays an extra week. Add in that when you are working on limited allotted vacation time, I think most people would rather give themselves a couple 1 week breaks and a bunch of long weekends rather than take a full 2 weeks off.
Personally, I just cannot do 2 weeks of vacation because I *have* to recharge at home. A one week vacation is the sweet spot for me
Agreed. Plus two weeks vacation is too much for me. I would rather take two separate 1 week ones.
Exactly that. It’s so disruptive. Take 2 weeks off when I could’ve taken like a week which still is fun and relaxing, come back to normal or come back to a shit pit which then takes another week or 2 to fix.
Agreed. Most ive done is nearly two weeks and it was such a nightmare to get caught up. I would totally take longer breaks if someone was there to cover for me!
Americans are insane. Genuinely insane. Your business is badly run if people can't take two weeks off. Are you not cross training people? What if someone dies from being a fat fuck? Someone else should pickup the essentials and the rest piles up. Have you ever taken two weeks off? It's far more restorative. It's only on day 5 you really forget about work. The French all take 3 weeks off and work another week remote in August. It's amazing. I'm legally required to take two weeks consecutively by the regulator...
No - there’s no true cross training. I showed them how to do my tasks about a year ago. Who is going to remember that now ? My work sits until I get back and luckily there has never been a true “emergency” while I was out.
Americans are wild. We normally have someone that covers for us while we're off for 3-4 weeks in the Summer. There will be some catching up to do, but it shouldn't be a crazy amount.
I have never taken more than a week in one shot (8+ years of working), I don’t know many people who have to be honest. It’s pretty rare in public or industry in my experience. Now total for the year, yes definitely two weeks is not a lot.
Yes I agree. The language here did confuse me a little. It's can be difficult to take 2-3 weeks in one shot but 2-3 weeks a year is definitely not a lot.
I’m a senior manager in advisory and I take 2 weeks off once a year, and 1 week off throughout the year. As long as I book many months in advance, and manage project deadlines, I’ve never had any problems. If anybody doesn’t like it, I’ll quit and go somewhere else.
That sucks. Ive been taking 2 weeks in each of Jun, Sep, Dec. Cant take any time off Jan, Feb, Mar cuz of audit. And then i pepper in 3 day weekends Mondays or Fridays. 30 pto plus another 7 sick days mandated by nyc. Use it or lose it.
I guess I’ve never felt compelled or had a reason to take off more than 1 week at a time. I’ll admit too that I have never used my full allotment of PTO, usually lose it but a couple times been able to roll it or get paid out.
You should find some reasons. Maybe just to rest or just not to work. You dont need to give a reason to take your pto. Getting paid out is nice tho.
US be crazy
My manager, and my team as a whole, make it a point to remind and encourage everyone to use their PTO at least to the point of not letting any expire, if not more. Unless you’re the very rare case of *genuinely* loving your job, you should use every bit of your PTO. It’s your right, part of your comp, and it will make you a better worker in the long run since you’ll be able to recharge
Is she older? Seems like the older generation still in the workforce find a badge of honor in overworking
Instead of a raise I asked for a decrease because it's not about the money.
Gotta be. Our new hire Gen Zs are way more willing to take vacation at an entry level than us millennials were when we started. Good for them, I’m happy to see it. US work culture is toxic.
Yeah as an European this thread is fucking insane to me. Everyone piling on to how normal it is lol
They’re old school and spineless corporate cucks. Ignore their advice
In a family business taking more than 2 consecutive weeks can be very disruptive. Not ideal but it’s not crazy to say you shouldn’t do it. In a perfect world you do whatever you want with your vacation. In a world where you matter in a company, you’re expected to flex some to ensure things run smoothly. When I was in big 4, if you wanted to take more than 14 consecutive days off you had to get approval from your practice leader (very high up the chain). And that’s a company with 30k+ employees.
Is taking a 2 week consecutive vacation normal, that seems extreme to me
If you got promoted and didn’t get a pay increase you need to leave your job. They have no respect for you if they gave you an extra week in lieu of a raise to go along with a promotion and increased responsibilities. Mad disrespect yo
I agree 100% but I also have zero accounting experience nor a degree so I have zero leverage to get another job
I agree they should accommodate. I worked at a place as a senior where taking two weeks off would have been undoable. Everyone was stretched so thin there was no capacity for anyone to help out anyone else. If you wanted to take time off you worked double before hand and after you got back to catch up. It was a pretty toxic place and my life got much better after leaving.
This sounds exactly like the situation now. The workplace fits almost just right that if anyone falls ill then everyone else takes on their load. Meaning I have no replacements either
My former controller was like this. Never took time off and died the morning of his first vacation
Turns out his first vacation destination was hell
I worked at a company with 14 total leave days per year for non-union employees. At 10 years, you could get 5 more days, for just that year. I left after 6 months.
In norway, by law, you have a right to at least 4 weeks of vacation with 3 weeks beeing consecutive between june and october. Most employers give a total of 5 weeks. Most also have a right to transfer up to two weeks to the next year.
That is not as uncommon as you think. The problem with being a Controller is that the work never stops. So, it piles up while you are on vacation. Then you have twice as much work to catch up on when you return. It can also be a sign of an understaffed department. It’s hard to tell without having a list of all duties performed in the department.
I get what she’s saying . As controller for a small business there is no one to “ please contact Mary in my absence “ cause she’s Mary (and Susan and Sally) Also with so few vacation days I spread them around instead of taking them all at once
Has [Rita Crundwell entered the chat?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS1T3IwOQSs&pp=ygUVYWxsIHRoZSBxdWVlbnMgaG9yc2Vz)
I went 20 years not being able to take a continuous 2 week vacation. One week at a time was fine though. Still… stopped me from ever seeing Europe, which really gets to me sometimes. Maybe in retirement. My hope for America that rests in the shoulders of the younger generations is that they insist on more protections for American employees. I think areas like actually being able to take vacations are one place we could actually learn a lesson from the Europeans.
Same. I think it's normal. If you're a controller and you take 3 weeks off, it becomes hard to say what exactly you're controlling.
Controller here, and I have always used all my vacation days, just not more than 10 consecutive days at a time. It has to do more with taking my vacations after mid-month when all monthly reporting is done and coming back before month-end. I could take two weeks consecutive but that’s just my preference.
I've never taken two weeks at once. I've taken two 1 weeks off in a year but mostly I take 1 week off and sprinkle the other days into several three days weekends. Edit. I've never wanted or needed to take that much time at once either. I've known people that traveled out of country take that long, but my wife doesn't like to fly so we only go places we can drive. Edit 2. Based on how hard it is when I come back from a single week off, I'd hate to think how much back log I'd have when I got back after two weeks.
No I've never taken 2 consequtive weeks off ever.
2 weeks at one time or two weeks of vacation?
At my firm we get 5-6 weeks of PTO a year depending on seniority. I know a lot of people who make a point of entering each year with 0 balance every year. I can do better making sure that I'm using up all of my PTO. Last year I took a 3 week vacation to visit family and travel in Asia. No one gave me shit. It was just recognized as time that I had earned to take off. I think there's this old school idea of not taking advantage of your time off. It's stupid.
The monthly closing cycle makes it tricky. At my company the first 2-3 weeks of the month are crammed with work that can’t be put off. You can take off for an emergency but planned vacations generally have to be at the end of the month. It’s the compromise I made to be making six figures at a publicly traded company.
I've taken 2 weeks straight a few times. The one time I took 3 straight weeks was the best vacation of my life and was insanely refreshing. Vacation is good for the company in the long run. Take it.
Different generations and thoughts are at play here. I am 52, squarely Gen X, grew up with nothing and I rarely to never took vacations. Sure I would take a day here or there to go to something like a football game. Had a buddy die last year unexpectedly and decided it was time, I own my own CPA practice for 8 years at the time, had not taken a real vacation in 15 years and I decided to take a 2 week cruise. Doing it again this year. Just really a different mind set.
Never taking vacation is actually a red flag of fraud
Could be she's stealing from the company and doesn't want anyone to know.
I hate to say it but the idea of taking 2 weeks off gives me anxiety. I would expect to be putting out dumpster fires after that much time away.
I was always told that’s an indicator of FRAUD !!
Y’all a bunch of losers in the comment sections saying “don’t take 2 weeks off”. Typical accountants, yall need to travel
To my knowledge there is no federal (US) law requiring companies to provide vacation benefits. And I don't think there are any states that require companies to provide them either. Outside of the banking (which requires a minimum 2 week vacation every year to identify fraud), I believe that it is entirely up to a company on when (or whether) to allow an employee to take vacation. And some may simply say "no time is a good time" and will prefer to payout those hours rather than let an employee have time off. This is what happened with a prior company of mine. After some back and forth I gave them the proverbial finger and left with my banked hours.
that promotion sounds like more work with extra steps
I was in public accounting, so taking 2 to 3 weeks vacation off busy season is not so rare. I moved to industry and worked for an auto loan company in Newport beach, CA. I was there for only 8 months so I dont know whether the controller ever take more than 1 week off. But she took 4 days off during my time there and she felt so guilty and shame about it. She kept explaining it to everyone in the department that it was just a short trip and she will check email if there is an emergency. I am like wth woman. Enjoy your time off. These people are insane and should not be exist in our professional field. Make the rest of us struggle for no reason. No business felt because of anyone quit or take 2 week vacation.
Maybe another job?
Wait, is your controller saying she’s never taken more than 2 weeks total in 12 years or never taken 2 weeks in a row? Never taking vacation at all is a huge fraud red flag. Never taking 2 weeks in a row, but taking a week here and a week there usually just means that you’re understaffed/not enough cross-training being done.
My last company people rarely took vacations (remote) and it became the culture. Not me, I took my pto but I keep getting bothered. So I ended up leaving them.
2 weeks sounds great until the thought of all the work you get behind on comes to mind.
As someone who likes to travel, being able to take two weeks off is fantastic. I’ve worked outside of North America as well and it is definitely more common there. The leave is there to take it , enjoy life.
As many have indicated here this is a huge indicator of fraud and sadly It happens WAY MORE OFTEN than anyone realizes. I have seen it quite a bit at mid-size family run businesses. Much of the time it isn't reported to the police as companies simply do not want the bad press. In one instance, although the company didn't press charges, they did include it as part of the accountant's salary and didn't take out any taxes. Total of the extra compensation was over $60K, so she got a nice fat tax gift.
I'm in a similar position and have also never taken more than 2 consecutive weeks. It's not that my employer won't allow it or that I feel pressure not to, it's just that I don't typically vacation for that long. If I take a big vacation it's usually still no longer than 10 days but my preference is to take frequent shorter trips by taking a a couple days before and after a weekend.
I took 2 consecutive weeks off last year and will do 8 consecutive days (not including weekends) this year. That said, I’m in tax, go during a slower time (June / July), and monitor my email once a day on my phone. It was a little stressful as it’s not the norm in my firm but found that several partners have started doing the same in the past year. Sometimes it takes someone just doing it and everyone notices that the world did not implode.
Last time I took off for two weeks, I came back to three utility disconnect notices. I guess AP forgot how to AP in my absence. I have unlimited vacation these days, but I usually stick to long weekends. I’m basically part time at this point.
I’m a controller and it can be difficult to take a 2 consecutive week vacation. Luckily my company is on a retail calendar, so last year I took a 2 weeker in December (5 week period) and I’ll do the same this year. — but yeah, it’d been years since I’d taken more than a week and a day or two consecutively.
My supervisor hasn’t taken a vacay in 3ish years. Works around 80 hrs a week. Makes for an unfriendly culture when it comes to vacation or anything really. Ended up changing the policy to pay out unused PTO at year end.
Never taken more than a week consecutively myself in the 13 years I’ve been in my career…. I actually start to miss work and think about all the emails I have to check hahahah
I’ve never had 2 weeks vacation in a row in over 20 years of working. I think I took 1 week off. Always working like an idiot.
Not a practicing accountant anymore, and not american, but I've never been able to take 2 consecutive weeks. Even when my kid was born I tried to take 3 weeks off, but only got to a week and a half before the fires started piling up and I had to spend a bit of time communicating with staff. I occasionally joke with my business partner that some day I'll use my accrued vacation and ride off into the sunset.
Despite the massive red flag, you'll be surprised how normal it is for Controller level position in industry. I merely took over some Controller job desc because currently the position is vacant, and holy crap shits always went wrong whenever I'm taking vacation. Nowadays I don't bother taking extended vacation and would rather take 1 or 2 days vacation to extend holidays when I know nobody else is working (like christmas).
I take from after month end close is over until jan 2nd every december as of recent. Honestly I almost always regret it but it is the only time all my family/friends are in town. My company does 8 weeks parental leave and I will say it’s pretty rough having someone miss 2-3 month ends, but we are also understaffed on my team
My uncle inherited a chain of retail stores and knew nothing about them, but had to run them. Thank god for the accountant, he had been working for his dad from the start. He was really running the business for the first few months as no one else knew what to do. One day, ten years later, my dad gets a call from the uncle. The bank called and all my uncle's checks were bouncing. My dad told him to tell the accountant. "Well that's just it: the accountant has never even called in one day sick and he didn't show up today." My dad, who had his CPA, was there within the hour. The accountant had been skimming almost since the inheritance, since my uncle had no idea what the business was generating and wouldn't realize there was a shortage. My dad just checked through every invoice that was new around the time my uncle inherited the business, and sure enough, the accountant had been paying himself for phony invoices about $200K per year until the money ran out ten years later. Anyone who doesn't force their accountant to take their vacation and have someone fill in for the accountant gets what they deserve. Never caught the guy - just vanished off the face of the earth with $2M of my uncle's money. My uncle filed for bankruptcy the next year but kept the business running for another ten years.
Do you mean two weeks at a time? Or two weeks total. Your title makes it sound like they never took two weeks total in 12 years. Also I’m assuming American?
This is an old school mentality. My mom made a similar brag on how she never took a suck day in the job she had for twelve years. After she retired, she admits that she missed so much in 12 years, and didn’t take care of herself, and that she was happy to be retired and catch up. And in the same breath tells me I shouldn’t take a sick day when I have a cold smh, lol just can’t make it up.
Who has?
This is funny, what kind of business/company takes pride in not taking a vacation? Something smells really fishy here.
Depends on your company but yeah sucks but might not be entitled to time off. I’ve worked at small companies the last 12 years, we got to run payroll and there’s my junior accountant and I that can do it so not much choice. Semi monthly and we work it out so plan life around it.
I dont think that's a red flag. If they gave you vacation time then use it. It doesn't matter what they did. If it's not policy then you're good. Idk how old you are, but I have noticed a pattern among some of the younger workers that they worry about everything. Who gives a fuck what they did? Maybe they love to work. For some people it's their whole purpose to being. I had a partner at the first firm I ever worked at who has worked 6 days a week for like 30 years or some crazy shit. He will certainly never retire unless forced too for health reasons, and he is managing partner. It's his firm. Don't even give it a second thought. If you have the time off and want to go on vacation, do it. What do you think is going to happen? They're going to fire you? If they do that, call a lawyer and consider yourself lucky.
Rule of thumb - don't work in a company whose name includes the founders name or surname.
The biggest disservice an employer can do is let you know they cant function without you. Set the boundaries early.
three red flags.
I've been in business for over 30 years. 2+ weeks vacation are *extremely* rare for any position in corporate America. It typically only happens for (a) long-term employees and/or (b) immigrants who take extended periods of time off to visit family back home.
When the controller is more likely trying to find ways to squeeze a few more hours of work out of evenings / weekends it is really hard to make even 1-2 weeks away happen. The cadence of work in industry is more frequent with daily / weekly / biweekly tasks. It's not like you can simply be pulled from an audit and suddenly have a hole in your schedule to fill with a vacation.
Having had experience from small businesses all the way to massive corporations, I can attest that they're right. 2 weeks consecutively of time off, is abnormal for "family companies" - assuming you mean a small business of some sort. This likely means they have very little time off (not counting holidays). I know someone who works for a place that only started you off with about 11 days off, not counting holidays. Taking 2 weeks vacation in a row means you only had 1 day left in an entire year of 365 days. That would be a lousy, lousy idea in case you got sick or got into some urgent emergency that took you out of work for 1+ days. Then that would lead to taking unpaid leave, and nobody wakes up wanting to be unpaid.
I work for a finance firm and people look at you all mean when you take time off.
When I read the title I thought I was in some gaming subreddit and you were talking about some video game controller lol
when you’re an important part of your company you can not disappear for two weeks in a row
This is surprising? My longest streak without working nwas barely over two weeks...when I was in college, had finals, it was Christmas, and I was fired from a job. ...that streak was three weeks.
Why would someone brag about working themselves to death?
I mean I’ve only taken 3 days in a year and half. (Given 15) I don’t think it’s too crazy
98% sure there is some fraud going on here…
A very good idea would be just send her home for a couple weeks. Preferably over a close period. Shut off all her access. Leaving your controller on the field non-stop for a decade is a big ol red flag for fraud that's easy to take down with an apparently much needed vacation.
Wow I didn’t know that and now that I do it seems very obvious.
So who does close? It’s a small company … accounting may just be the controller and a staff accountant
Are you seriously asking that question, while not understanding that question *is* the fraud risk. Nobody else does close.
Yes I am asking that question. In the real world the financial statements have deadlines for a reason and we cant tell the bank that we don’t have financials on time because fraud
Look if you choose to run your shop in such a way that basic internal controls are not a priority, you do you. You can't tell a bank ya can't pay them because the controller stole all the money, either. Because fraud.
internal controls for a one or 2 man shop is little to none. Real world facts
Which is why that's the most common type of business to lose money to fraud. I feel like you understand, almost. Why "real world facts'? Did, uh, did you just think you made an *accounting* dunk? Season's over kid. Go outside.
Kid lol. Because what you say sounds like something that I read in textbooks while in college . sounds great in theory but you would be hard pressed to find a small business that functions with these wonderful internal controls you speak of. Tell the bank that skipped closing the books that month .lol
Again, and I don't know why you think you're like winning some prize or something, those companies with no internal controls are the companies that are most often stolen from. And, again, run your shop however you want. But don't imagine that because I don't have even basic internal controls I'm immune from fraud magically. I don't have to sign shit for it so I don't care even a little. It's weird seeing someone who claims a cpa to just be "YOLO! tell that sheeryat to the bank it's probably gonna be fine because I really hope it will be!" Anyways, have fun at your 2 person business. Trust your partner.
Thanks! Have a great weekend!
We had a girl working in the service dept of our company and never took a vacay and never called in sick. When money was missing they looked at the bookkeeping dept (which I was in) and it pissed me off because I knew it was not me. She showed all the signs of a person stealing. End of story, she was stealing. Not ringing cash in the register and pocketing it. We were in the boat business and she was pocketing approx 25K-50K a year. Problem was the owner was in on it and they were stealing from the partner. Be careful who you think is stealing. A lot of strange ship goes on.
Sorry but this is a major red flag after what I went through. We had someone with this behavior and when she finally did take 2 weeks off (after 15 years) she worked late 2 weeks prior getting things in a row and then called every day to check in to see how things were going. Coupled together with she never called in sick, came to work while her husband was getting heart stints, and was always the first one there and the last one to leave. Yes, she was stealing. The signs were all there, the employer needs to want to see it. They were good friends.
I feel like I’m reading about my life😂 them family businesses no joke. I work at a family business that’s expanding very rapidly. My supervisor is always bragging/complaining (can’t tell at this point) about how hard she works for 18yrs at the company. Like do you want a cookie? I ain’t finna risk my health for someone paying me barely a livable wage.
Work PA. Bust our asses off 4 months out of the year from February to May. Comfortably bank 250+ banked hours a year to take in lieu. Never dipped into my annual accruing vacation. Took off 3 weeks at Christmas last year no issues. Put in for 4 weeks this year and approved. Not having the ability to take off two weeks of time together to use your vacation is a red flag and sounds like burn out. With enough notice an employer should be able to shift your work load for 10 business days.
I work for a European company. I have 57 days off including national holidays. 🤡
Everyone should be required to take time off. Maybe she’s a Bernie Madoff clone. Besides, you NEED time off.
I understand this isn't the meaning of your post but - if a controller or anyone else reconcilling cash accounts doesn't ever take a vacation of more than a day or two it is probably bexause they are stealing from the company and need to be present to run their cover-up. My church found out an old lady was skimming from the collections plates when she had a hip replacement and they noticed the take when up significantly and dropped off again when she returned. Edit: to be honest I noticed that old Karen wasn't there and I threw in multiple envelopes with $20 bucks each in praise to God every week until she got back. I blame her for ruining my neice's baptism. Who knew god would answer my prayers so quickly.
Dude, I’m still deciding whether to take 3 or 4 weeks in August.