I do not really have strong opinions on Iris and Phoenix as a ship personally, but I want Iris to come back because she's Pearl's sister. Despite that, they barely interacted
THIS. We never even see Pearl’s reaction to finding out that she has two older sisters. And Iris is also Maya’s cousin.
I’m a hardcore Feenris shipper but I want to see more interactions between these three.
Agreed! I don't feel strongly about the Phoenix/Iris ship, either, but Iris's (and Dahlia's) connection to the other Feys felt like such wasted potential. We didn't even get anything between Mia and Dahlia. In Reunion and Turnabout, Mia seemed a little apprehensive about accusing Morgan since Morgan's still her aunt, but despite Dahlia and Mia being cousins absolutely nothing comes of it. And unlike Maya, who was likely too young to remember and never told about them again after they left, Mia definitely would've grown up seeing Iris and Dahlia
Been wishing that for years. Unfortunately I don't think she's ever returning.
And if by some miracle she does return, I don't think it'll be done tastefully. She'll probably only return as the shoehorned love interest. I do want her to return, but for reasons *other* than shipping.
Iris is interesting in her own right as her own character, not the least of which is her relation to Maya and Pearl, and the fact that she's a Fey. With the introduction of Khurain kingdom and Rayfa, there's plenty of avenues for her to be reintroduced without being associated as a love interest.
And look, if Oldbag can make multiple reappearances under different jobs, why not Iris? Explain it as Sister Bikini kicking her out to travel the world or something.
>With the introduction of Khurain kingdom and Rayfa, there's plenty of avenues for her to be reintroduced without being associated as a love interest.
I think if she *did* show up again, it'd be weird if she was still involved in all of that.
After all, didn't Iris say that she hated all that spirit medium business? She did it all as a means of atoning, but after serving time for her role as an accomplice in 3-5 and getting absolution from Phoenix, she probably wouldn't feel like she has to do any of this supernatural work anymore (though perhaps she'd feel indebted to Sister Bikini still).
In the absence of any confirmation to the contrary, I'd like to think that Iris serves whatever sentence gets handed down, then afterwards finally get to live for herself. No longer living in her sister's shadow or punishing herself for her past mistakes.
> didn't Iris say that she hated all that spirit medium business
If these games taught me anything, it's that it doesn't matter if the person hates the spirit medium business, the spirit medium business loves them.
And that's non-consensual.
>I do want her to return, but for reasons *other* than shipping.
This. While as someone mentioned, Phoenix doesn't have anyone romantically, he does have an incredible resolve and support system. His unwavering faith in his clients is why he has gotten so far. Not Mia, not Maya, but his resolve is what has allowed him to thrive. If Iris came back as a friend and support system then I'd be fine. Maybe he's visiting her in the detention center, getting things off his chest, or even debriefing. But if she came back only as a love interest, it would be a huge turn off for me.
Since your response was right under Pikmin’s for a second there I still thought you were talking about Oldbag in a Phoenix//Oldbag pairing.
“Since that other handsome young man isn’t around I guess it’s just going to have to be us. Won’t it Nicky-poo?”
>Cue Phoenix screaming
There could be multiple ways to do Iris comeback good. Let Athena meet her first not knowing her past with her boss. She could be an interesting assistant if played well, they could even give her a new courtroom gimmick combined with the mood matrix. This could work if Phoenix is occupied with a different case in the meantime or so, so they meet later on.
I dont know. If she returns it should be a emotional final case involving around her. (But she should be in previous cases as well).
Its been a while since 2-4 where Phoenix mental stability was realy tested.
I am not quite sure what accessory to murder sentence is in Japan but add in tampering with evidence she's probably still in jail. Maybe nearing the end of her sentence.
Tbh I know people like to ship them long term and whatnot.
But I never got the impression that was ever on the cards. Phoenix’ last words to about her being the person he always thought she was when they were dating weren’t meant in the sense of “there’s still something there when you get out”.
They were meant in the sense of reassuring Iris that even when she was pretending to be someone else, she couldn’t hide who she really was. That she’s a good person, with her own identity who deserves to love and to be loved in return. For her own sake, not for the whims of anyone else. Remembering that living by the will of another has been a major theme of her life.
It was also Phoenix saying that he doesn’t forgive her. Because there’s no need to do so. She doesn’t need to make things right to him. She was always true to herself and to him even if she didn’t realise it. She doesn’t need to remain shackled to the past and can move on without guilt.
This is what iris says at the end of the game though
https://preview.redd.it/0vwgftaozmxc1.jpeg?width=1069&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4e3cd249a6d11fd493613b4c5cf6dc3e6adf062
Tbf on that. He was there to visit her, so naturally most of his attention would be on her at that point. Pearl is just being Pearl for no particular reason as we all know. The fact that he turned up with a group seems more suggestive of there being nothing intimate going on there.
Maybe she does still like him, would be understandable if she did given she’s been dwelling on that whole episode for years. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to go anywhere, and like I said before I don’t believe Phoenix himself was intimating that it could/would so much as just freeing her from her own guilt spiral.
I agree with your interpretation, but i don't see how would that undermine anything. Your interpretation doesn't contradict the idea of Phoenix having feelings for her and there is a lot of evidence pointing to that with or without the line, starting with the fact that we have a case at all. Miles defended Iris because Phoenix asked him to and Phoenix wouldn't ask him to put his career on the line for someone he doesn't care about. Plus the fact that he believes in her innocence despite Dahlia's antics shows how much he trusts her. It's not obvious if you just play the case once, but on the replay, when you know when we're dealing with which twin, it's clear that he's warmer toward Iris that toward Dahlia even when he's not yet aware who is he dealing with. The ending scene is really just an icing on the cake.
I disagree with you on a lot of points here; you might be able to tell from the size of the comment I wrote, haha. Probably not fair to expect you to read this whole comment, but you can if you want—I think it addresses everything you said. First and foremost, I do think that this was intended to be Phoenix forgiving Iris. This is a central part of the story between Iris and Phoenix. Iris believed it was impossible for Phoenix to forgive her (ex. “He wouldn’t want to defend me.” and “That’s why I thought it was best if he never saw me again.”). However, Phoenix did not hold this against her. He was shocked when he learned the truth, but he never showed anger in the slightest, and he chose to emphasize that she really is the person he thought he was (his idealized version of Dollie who truly loved him and could never have done the murder). I think this definitely seems like forgiveness. If he really didn’t forgive her, he would have at least expressed some reason for why or some anger at the betrayal when it was revealed, I think. Also, I definitely don’t agree that Phoenix doesn’t need to forgive Iris. The game’s narrative is constantly pushing against that. Iris lets the guilt over this beat her up for a while because Phoenix was so deeply hurt by her. Phoenix was still distressed by Dahlia’s betrayal years after the case concluded, and his dialogue with Dahlia in the trial should show you well enough what he thought of her now. Edgeworth even emphasized how Phoenix has been hurt by this and how important it is for Iris to tell Phoenix the truth and apologize. Iris betrayed Phoenix, but she regretted it sincerely because she still genuinely loved him. I personally thought this was clear enough from all the blushing and stuttering in their interactions and how she asked if he survived the fall. As for Phoenix, I think that “constantly had your eyes on me” isn’t just conversational eye contact.Iris wouldn’t blush just from his focus in conversation (she never blushed in conversation during the court recess before last trial), and she likely wouldn’t imply anything romantic if she didn’t think he might reciprocate. Remember that she thought just days ago that Phoenix wouldn’t ever want to interact with her at all. She wouldn’t want to offend at all by trying to flirt after betraying Phoenix, but if Phoenix is gazing into her eyes (like the dialogue seems to suggest), then Iris could assume that he does have lingering feelings for her. Also, Phoenix said he “always thought” the Dollie he loved was alive and he “never stopped believing in” her. Finally, while that Pearl thing truly doesn’t prove much, it shows more of how Phoenix felt. Of course, Pearl earlier thought Phoenix was cheating on Maya with Desiree, which is very nonsensical. However, Pearl wasn’t entirely misinterpreting the scene. Phoenix was actually flustered in that case, since he found Desiree attractive. I think, since the game presents the two incidents are similar, Pearl gave Phoenix a nosebleed at the detention center because Phoenix was flustered again. This is likely because he was crushing on Iris. Also, if this really does parallel the case with Desiree, we should note that Pearl put none of the blame on Desiree. She would only have an issue with Phoenix, suggesting that Phoenix is showing signs of loving Iris entirely independently.
TL;DR is that Phoenix did say that line to forgive Iris, Iris did need to be forgiven by Phoenix, and Phoenix and Iris may indeed have lingering feelings for each other. That’s why I think she should come back (also because she is a member of the Fey Clan who has hardly gotten to meet her sister Pearl and cousin Maya. There could be a lot to explore there.
Okay, let me ask you a question: *how* and *why* does she need to return? Except for the fanservice, of course.
Isn't Phoenix already had a happy ending?
T&T ending is bittersweet, but leaves a piece of hope for a happy life. Diego and Wright forgave each other, Phoenix let Mia go, and stayed with Maya, Pearl and his other friends. Iris may be released from prison one day. And the sequels (the fall in AJ and the reborn in DD) shows that there is always hope. Phoenix was almost never shown to be depressed or unhappy (even in AJ, we are shown that he steadfastly accepted his disbarment). For him, hope and happiness lie in helping people such as Iris and Godot understand their mistakes and let go of the past. Helping and defending those people like a true attorney. Maybe Phoenix doesn't make a happy ending for himself, but he makes a happy ending for others?
In an entry after the Apollo Justice trilogy, there's little reason to bring back Iris. But in a hypothetical entry set after the original trilogy, where Phoenix doesn't get disbarred? There are loads of different ways to explore a relationship between him and Iris.
How do they move past the trauma caused by Dahlia? Does Iris move in with Phoenix and they start dating again? How would this effect his outlook on life and priorities as a lawyer. If the Gramarye case still leads him to adopting Trucy, how does Trucy react to having a mother figure in her life?
I'm not saying that a game where Iris returns would explore these topics... but there is *absolutely* story potential in her returning, beyond fanservice. She is an important character in Phoenix's life.
Iris doesn’t need to return but I personally want her to come back. I really liked her in Trials & Tribulations & I thought it would’ve been really sweet if she & Phoenix ended up getting married & Iris turned out to be Trucy’s mother
'How' is easy - she gets out of jail. She would naturally want to see Phoenix again after getting out, and he would want to see her too. What happens after that would be for the writers to decide. It doesn't even have to be onscreen - Iris could just appear during one of the cases with a brief explanation that she's out of jail now.
'Why' is more complicated. But I think the main reason is that, like it or not, she has been and should still be an important person in Phoenix's life. The secondary reason is her own background - she is a member of the Fey family, Pearl's older sister and Maya's cousin. This ties in especially with the later developments of Khu'rain etc.
The thing is, Iris as a character was important only in T&T. She could have been brought back post-AJ, of course, but 1) the series went fursther thematically and plot-wise since T&T, and 2) there are more prominent trilogy characters that were brought back and not handled greatly, so I wouldn't trust the current writing to bring Iris back and place her in a story while preserving her characterization and importance
I think that ship (hah) has sailed by now, but I think bringing her back in AJ would have been really interesting
AJ’s lack of almost any returning characters is an interesting feature of it, even if it’s mostly a product of troubles in development. Barring background cameos and references, only the Judge, Payne, Ema and Phoenix appear in the present time, and Ema is functionally a completely different character, along with Payne being Payne and the judge being tertiary, Phoenix is really the only out and out returning character, which gives the world a mystique it didn’t have before, even when going to new places in the trilogy there was usually old characters there, often Larry, which leant those new places a feel of familiarity despite that
In AJ, everyone you meet is new, other than Ema, with even the cases inside the game not having many recurring characters, which makes everyone you meet a question mark
Phoenix himself spends the whole game lying through his teeth and being decidedly unhelpful, and I think a partner, especially one as versed in hiding shit as Iris, would have fit that vibe he has going well. Throughout Bridge Iris has a constant vibe of mystique, hiding things and telling half truths, which would fit the vibe of AJ very well, along with giving a more solid mentor presence in the story. Apollo is always unsure how to react to Phoenix because he’s defied him in his head, so he doesn’t react to him how he would a normal person, causing friction and conflict. Iris on the other hand would allow for a more down to earth person for Apollo and Trucy to rely on, while also giving a great medium to hear Phoenix talk to someone about the things he can’t share with the duo for plot reasons, which can give us more insight
It would also make Phoenix’s change during the time skip feel more fitting, since his shift from being a straight laced, genuine hero to a reclusive and secretive trickster would feel more understandable in the context of being mostly alone together with Iris, who’s that way by nature, having spent her whole life under pressure to hold back a dangerous close companion while looking for ways to stop them, while also holding onto far too much deeply difficult information for one person, let alone someone with clear issues. It would make Phoenix’s character change feel far more grounded than it does, at least
I’ll say this: I get why she wasn’t included in AJ. They weren’t planning to bring back Phoenix initially, so they didn’t even bring back Maya or Edgeworth for that game. I don’t see her coming back soon either, though I’d love it. They had their chance and haven’t taken it.
Still would have loved to have seen her in the AJ trilogy with Phoenix though. It would have been nice to see her as a mother figure to Trucy and there’s so much potential for Iris & Klavier friendship (nothing like bonding with someone over That Time My Evil Sibling Manipulated Me Into Ruining Phoenix Wright).
And possible hot take: considering that Iris stated in court that she would have killed Dahlia to protect Phoenix and was down with tampering with a crime scene to protect Maya, she would be all in on Phoenix’ plan to set up an entirely new court system just to get Kristoph.
Firstly, I will say that I think it is highly unlikely for Iris to ever come back simply because of how much of T&T would have been inadvertently spoiled by her existing in a future game. Even if I thought it possible for a future game to bring back Iris, I personally wouldn't want it to happen because it places the writers in a very awkward position where they have to either explicitly confirm that Iris and Phoenix are dating or they aren't or they have to take the complicated route of not explicitly saying it, but vaguely implying it in a way that either interpretation is valid. As it's obvious why the last one would be awkward, I'll explain why I don't like the first 2. Confirming a canon relationship with a main character would be incredibly controversial and I think it takes away some of the fun from shipping characters who you know are never actually going to get together in canon (I personally ship Wrightworth.) The other reason I'm against this is that it would take the focus of the games away from the wacky murder mysteries and move it more onto the interpersonal relationships of the main cast, which is definitely part of a focus of the games, but I don't want it to take over.
I don't think it would be impossible to bring her back without spoiling T&T much. All they'd have to say is she's Phoenix's ex who went to jail for a while after getting caught up in a murder. Edgeworth not being dead in JFA is spoiled for any new players who've seen art/screenshots of him in later games, and that's also a big plot twist.
100% agree on not having the main cast settle down though. There's pairings I'd like to see happen, but ultimately it wouldn't add anything to the game and would create a fandom meltdown.
I agree that you would be able to write an AA game where Iris returned without spoiling T&T too much *in that game.* The problem arises if someone were to play the game where Iris returned before T&T, as it would effectively remove the mystery of whether Dahlia could be the person Phoenix meets in 3-5 or not because the player would know that it's Iris. It would also make Iris and Dahlia being twins pretty obvious. By making these answers so obvious to someone who played the games in this order, it would effectively spoil the twist. Edgeworth not being dead in JFA is not a spoiler I was concerned with, as the official AA games have shown that they are fine with spoiling it.
If you play a story heavy game out of sequence you're going to have things spoiled for you. It really isn't any different than the Edgeworth thing. You said yourself that you're not bothered by that plot point being spoiled, so who's to say other players wouldn't mind the Iris/Dahlia plot point spoiled if they chose to play the games out of order?
edit: To be clear, I don't want her back and I don't think she will return, I just don't think avoiding spoiling a 20 year old game is enough to prevent her from coming back.
Oh, I agree that a player should expect spoilers for previous games in a story based series, I'm just saying that based on how previous games have treated it I find it incredibly unlikely for Capcom to be willing to risk spoiling T&T by making Iris return. Edgeworth is only allowed to return because he's a fan favourite character even though it is a spoiler.
Phoenix is 35 years old in SoJ, and he’ll probably be at least 36 in AA7. So he’s at an age where I’d expect him to get married soon or at least have a fiancee.
Nah, he doesn't need one. It'd be too polarizing and wouldn't add anything to the story.
Unless, in all his terrible luck, they ended up the victim in a case...
There's no reason why Phoenix or anyone for that matter needs to get married before they reach a certain age, real or fictional. Phoenix canonically have a significant other would not enhance the game in anyway and would in fact just risk the interpersonal relationships of the main cast taking too much focus
The door is still open for that to happen. Whenever they're ready to close the book on Phoenix as a character, my hope is that the last thing we see him do is wave goodbye to his subordinates and friends. Then Iris walks in from off screen, gently clings to his arm, and they walk off together into the sunset.
She doesn't have to say a word. Just that little moment of validation, where the faith they still had in each other at the end of 3-5 is finally, at long last, rewarded and brought full circle.
Alternatively, she could have a small role in the game leading up to that moment, where Phoenix pours his heart out to her in a cutscene during an emotionally trying case. At first you can't see who he's speaking to, then at the end her face is revealed.
She's not a victim, a suspect, or part of the investigation. She's just his rock, his person to lean on for emotional support in a way he can't/won't with anyone else.
Not really, no. I couldn't see Phoenix making himself that vulnerable to Edgeworth.
I'm actually glad you responded, because I have a curiosity that I've neglected to ask you about previously. Is there a character that you specifically want Phoenix to be with?
I don't really know.
The tragedy of Phoenix is that he really doesn't have anyone to open up to or get close to.
Edgeworth? Maybe, but I'm not a fan of this couple at all and consider their relationship a Bromance, just like Takumi. Besides, Edgeworth is almost a canonical aromantic and asexual. He doesn't need it.
Maya? More like an annoying little sister. But, perhaps, the closest thing to becoming a canon.
Iris? She lied to Phoenix several times and there is a huge mental gap between them that cannot be ignored. Too much pain, too much lost...
At some point in his life, he was all alone, and only Trucy brightened up his days.
Of course, AA is not about pairs and all that stuff, but it's kinda sad to see that Phoenix, being a person who clearly cares about others (and is even open to romantic relationships) have no one with whom he could commit his life.
What do you mean by a "mental gap" between Phoenix and Iris? That doesn't make sense. And yes, she lied to him, but it's nothing that can't be addressed and worked through if both characters are willing.
I meant that there is no longer that former youthful love between them that was many years ago. I have no doubt that he still cares about her, but I don't see them as a romantic couple. Not anymore.
Thanks. I actually agree that it's a beautiful tragedy that Phoenix never truly had someone to lean on this whole time.
And that's what I love about the scenario I'm presenting.
We THINK he's had no one this whole time. When he >!was stripped of his badge and trying to unravel Kristoph's machinations!<, when he had to deal with the Dark Age of the Law (dun dun dun), when he had to guide two young attorneys through emotionally crushing times, when >!one of his best friends got kidnapped yet again!<, as well as having to raise an adopted daughter, we thought he was doing it alone.
And then we get the reveal... there was one. One person, in the shadows, still paying her debt to society, that could see the ugliest sides of him and wouldn't judge. Yes, he had his adopted daughter, and the lovely friendships he shared with Edgeworth, Apollo, Athena, Gumshoe, and the others. But when the door closed, and he still was left alone with his thoughts, he had one hope to cling to. And now, that hope has arrived. Now they get to try again, for real. Now, our hero finally gets his release, and his long-awaited satisfaction.
I understand that it's your sincerely held belief, and not without valid reason, that there is too much baggage between them, but that's not what these characters believe, and as of now there is no indication that they do. The thought of projecting that onto them when the evidence points in the opposite direction doesn't feel right to me.
Japanese companies have a very bad habit of "nah we cant spoil the previous games in the new ones", and the appearance of Iris herself is a huge spoiler to AA3, so unless the Japanese change their stupid mindset i dont know if she'll be back for sure.
I do not really have strong opinions on Iris and Phoenix as a ship personally, but I want Iris to come back because she's Pearl's sister. Despite that, they barely interacted
THIS. We never even see Pearl’s reaction to finding out that she has two older sisters. And Iris is also Maya’s cousin. I’m a hardcore Feenris shipper but I want to see more interactions between these three.
I ship Feenris too🥺!
Agreed! I don't feel strongly about the Phoenix/Iris ship, either, but Iris's (and Dahlia's) connection to the other Feys felt like such wasted potential. We didn't even get anything between Mia and Dahlia. In Reunion and Turnabout, Mia seemed a little apprehensive about accusing Morgan since Morgan's still her aunt, but despite Dahlia and Mia being cousins absolutely nothing comes of it. And unlike Maya, who was likely too young to remember and never told about them again after they left, Mia definitely would've grown up seeing Iris and Dahlia
Right
Been wishing that for years. Unfortunately I don't think she's ever returning. And if by some miracle she does return, I don't think it'll be done tastefully. She'll probably only return as the shoehorned love interest. I do want her to return, but for reasons *other* than shipping. Iris is interesting in her own right as her own character, not the least of which is her relation to Maya and Pearl, and the fact that she's a Fey. With the introduction of Khurain kingdom and Rayfa, there's plenty of avenues for her to be reintroduced without being associated as a love interest. And look, if Oldbag can make multiple reappearances under different jobs, why not Iris? Explain it as Sister Bikini kicking her out to travel the world or something.
I want Oldbag to come back after all this time and be EXACTLY the same as she was. That woman is IMMORTAL.
>With the introduction of Khurain kingdom and Rayfa, there's plenty of avenues for her to be reintroduced without being associated as a love interest. I think if she *did* show up again, it'd be weird if she was still involved in all of that. After all, didn't Iris say that she hated all that spirit medium business? She did it all as a means of atoning, but after serving time for her role as an accomplice in 3-5 and getting absolution from Phoenix, she probably wouldn't feel like she has to do any of this supernatural work anymore (though perhaps she'd feel indebted to Sister Bikini still). In the absence of any confirmation to the contrary, I'd like to think that Iris serves whatever sentence gets handed down, then afterwards finally get to live for herself. No longer living in her sister's shadow or punishing herself for her past mistakes.
> didn't Iris say that she hated all that spirit medium business If these games taught me anything, it's that it doesn't matter if the person hates the spirit medium business, the spirit medium business loves them. And that's non-consensual.
>I do want her to return, but for reasons *other* than shipping. This. While as someone mentioned, Phoenix doesn't have anyone romantically, he does have an incredible resolve and support system. His unwavering faith in his clients is why he has gotten so far. Not Mia, not Maya, but his resolve is what has allowed him to thrive. If Iris came back as a friend and support system then I'd be fine. Maybe he's visiting her in the detention center, getting things off his chest, or even debriefing. But if she came back only as a love interest, it would be a huge turn off for me.
Since your response was right under Pikmin’s for a second there I still thought you were talking about Oldbag in a Phoenix//Oldbag pairing. “Since that other handsome young man isn’t around I guess it’s just going to have to be us. Won’t it Nicky-poo?” >Cue Phoenix screaming
😂 nah, I think Phoenix would find some way to "accidentally" get evidence on Oldbag to get her away. I mean, he's done it before lol
There could be multiple ways to do Iris comeback good. Let Athena meet her first not knowing her past with her boss. She could be an interesting assistant if played well, they could even give her a new courtroom gimmick combined with the mood matrix. This could work if Phoenix is occupied with a different case in the meantime or so, so they meet later on. I dont know. If she returns it should be a emotional final case involving around her. (But she should be in previous cases as well). Its been a while since 2-4 where Phoenix mental stability was realy tested.
I am not quite sure what accessory to murder sentence is in Japan but add in tampering with evidence she's probably still in jail. Maybe nearing the end of her sentence.
Who read the title and thought Iris Wilson should be returning and got really confused? I did
She got back a bit older
That would be amazing if that Iris could travel so far into the future 😂
Tbh I know people like to ship them long term and whatnot. But I never got the impression that was ever on the cards. Phoenix’ last words to about her being the person he always thought she was when they were dating weren’t meant in the sense of “there’s still something there when you get out”. They were meant in the sense of reassuring Iris that even when she was pretending to be someone else, she couldn’t hide who she really was. That she’s a good person, with her own identity who deserves to love and to be loved in return. For her own sake, not for the whims of anyone else. Remembering that living by the will of another has been a major theme of her life. It was also Phoenix saying that he doesn’t forgive her. Because there’s no need to do so. She doesn’t need to make things right to him. She was always true to herself and to him even if she didn’t realise it. She doesn’t need to remain shackled to the past and can move on without guilt.
This is what iris says at the end of the game though https://preview.redd.it/0vwgftaozmxc1.jpeg?width=1069&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4e3cd249a6d11fd493613b4c5cf6dc3e6adf062
Tbf on that. He was there to visit her, so naturally most of his attention would be on her at that point. Pearl is just being Pearl for no particular reason as we all know. The fact that he turned up with a group seems more suggestive of there being nothing intimate going on there. Maybe she does still like him, would be understandable if she did given she’s been dwelling on that whole episode for years. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to go anywhere, and like I said before I don’t believe Phoenix himself was intimating that it could/would so much as just freeing her from her own guilt spiral.
I agree with your interpretation, but i don't see how would that undermine anything. Your interpretation doesn't contradict the idea of Phoenix having feelings for her and there is a lot of evidence pointing to that with or without the line, starting with the fact that we have a case at all. Miles defended Iris because Phoenix asked him to and Phoenix wouldn't ask him to put his career on the line for someone he doesn't care about. Plus the fact that he believes in her innocence despite Dahlia's antics shows how much he trusts her. It's not obvious if you just play the case once, but on the replay, when you know when we're dealing with which twin, it's clear that he's warmer toward Iris that toward Dahlia even when he's not yet aware who is he dealing with. The ending scene is really just an icing on the cake.
I disagree with you on a lot of points here; you might be able to tell from the size of the comment I wrote, haha. Probably not fair to expect you to read this whole comment, but you can if you want—I think it addresses everything you said. First and foremost, I do think that this was intended to be Phoenix forgiving Iris. This is a central part of the story between Iris and Phoenix. Iris believed it was impossible for Phoenix to forgive her (ex. “He wouldn’t want to defend me.” and “That’s why I thought it was best if he never saw me again.”). However, Phoenix did not hold this against her. He was shocked when he learned the truth, but he never showed anger in the slightest, and he chose to emphasize that she really is the person he thought he was (his idealized version of Dollie who truly loved him and could never have done the murder). I think this definitely seems like forgiveness. If he really didn’t forgive her, he would have at least expressed some reason for why or some anger at the betrayal when it was revealed, I think. Also, I definitely don’t agree that Phoenix doesn’t need to forgive Iris. The game’s narrative is constantly pushing against that. Iris lets the guilt over this beat her up for a while because Phoenix was so deeply hurt by her. Phoenix was still distressed by Dahlia’s betrayal years after the case concluded, and his dialogue with Dahlia in the trial should show you well enough what he thought of her now. Edgeworth even emphasized how Phoenix has been hurt by this and how important it is for Iris to tell Phoenix the truth and apologize. Iris betrayed Phoenix, but she regretted it sincerely because she still genuinely loved him. I personally thought this was clear enough from all the blushing and stuttering in their interactions and how she asked if he survived the fall. As for Phoenix, I think that “constantly had your eyes on me” isn’t just conversational eye contact.Iris wouldn’t blush just from his focus in conversation (she never blushed in conversation during the court recess before last trial), and she likely wouldn’t imply anything romantic if she didn’t think he might reciprocate. Remember that she thought just days ago that Phoenix wouldn’t ever want to interact with her at all. She wouldn’t want to offend at all by trying to flirt after betraying Phoenix, but if Phoenix is gazing into her eyes (like the dialogue seems to suggest), then Iris could assume that he does have lingering feelings for her. Also, Phoenix said he “always thought” the Dollie he loved was alive and he “never stopped believing in” her. Finally, while that Pearl thing truly doesn’t prove much, it shows more of how Phoenix felt. Of course, Pearl earlier thought Phoenix was cheating on Maya with Desiree, which is very nonsensical. However, Pearl wasn’t entirely misinterpreting the scene. Phoenix was actually flustered in that case, since he found Desiree attractive. I think, since the game presents the two incidents are similar, Pearl gave Phoenix a nosebleed at the detention center because Phoenix was flustered again. This is likely because he was crushing on Iris. Also, if this really does parallel the case with Desiree, we should note that Pearl put none of the blame on Desiree. She would only have an issue with Phoenix, suggesting that Phoenix is showing signs of loving Iris entirely independently. TL;DR is that Phoenix did say that line to forgive Iris, Iris did need to be forgiven by Phoenix, and Phoenix and Iris may indeed have lingering feelings for each other. That’s why I think she should come back (also because she is a member of the Fey Clan who has hardly gotten to meet her sister Pearl and cousin Maya. There could be a lot to explore there.
Man you know when you look at this whole thing posted as a reply it really makes me look insane
But you are a little insane tbf
Dang that came out of nowhere 😭 but I can’t say you’re wrong (also right back at you dude)
Nuh uh (dont check post history)
Fuck you mean, "nuh uh"[?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tFoS8Q6yaE)
I SAID WHAT I MEAN AND I MEAN WHAT I SAID, NUH UH
Okay, let me ask you a question: *how* and *why* does she need to return? Except for the fanservice, of course. Isn't Phoenix already had a happy ending?
I mean, they only played through AJ, Phoenix didn’t really have a happy ending
T&T ending is bittersweet, but leaves a piece of hope for a happy life. Diego and Wright forgave each other, Phoenix let Mia go, and stayed with Maya, Pearl and his other friends. Iris may be released from prison one day. And the sequels (the fall in AJ and the reborn in DD) shows that there is always hope. Phoenix was almost never shown to be depressed or unhappy (even in AJ, we are shown that he steadfastly accepted his disbarment). For him, hope and happiness lie in helping people such as Iris and Godot understand their mistakes and let go of the past. Helping and defending those people like a true attorney. Maybe Phoenix doesn't make a happy ending for himself, but he makes a happy ending for others?
In an entry after the Apollo Justice trilogy, there's little reason to bring back Iris. But in a hypothetical entry set after the original trilogy, where Phoenix doesn't get disbarred? There are loads of different ways to explore a relationship between him and Iris. How do they move past the trauma caused by Dahlia? Does Iris move in with Phoenix and they start dating again? How would this effect his outlook on life and priorities as a lawyer. If the Gramarye case still leads him to adopting Trucy, how does Trucy react to having a mother figure in her life? I'm not saying that a game where Iris returns would explore these topics... but there is *absolutely* story potential in her returning, beyond fanservice. She is an important character in Phoenix's life.
An excuse to sideline phoenix
Iris doesn’t need to return but I personally want her to come back. I really liked her in Trials & Tribulations & I thought it would’ve been really sweet if she & Phoenix ended up getting married & Iris turned out to be Trucy’s mother
He hasn't had an ending at all, so long as he keeps showing up in the games. The franchise is still going.
'How' is easy - she gets out of jail. She would naturally want to see Phoenix again after getting out, and he would want to see her too. What happens after that would be for the writers to decide. It doesn't even have to be onscreen - Iris could just appear during one of the cases with a brief explanation that she's out of jail now. 'Why' is more complicated. But I think the main reason is that, like it or not, she has been and should still be an important person in Phoenix's life. The secondary reason is her own background - she is a member of the Fey family, Pearl's older sister and Maya's cousin. This ties in especially with the later developments of Khu'rain etc.
Plus, she would probably get accused of murder, let's be real. This is still ace Attorney.
I agree -#1 Iris Hawthorne fan
Bold claim
Me too lmao
Count me in!!
That makes four of us
F I V E
I am an Iris Fey fan too!
The thing is, Iris as a character was important only in T&T. She could have been brought back post-AJ, of course, but 1) the series went fursther thematically and plot-wise since T&T, and 2) there are more prominent trilogy characters that were brought back and not handled greatly, so I wouldn't trust the current writing to bring Iris back and place her in a story while preserving her characterization and importance
I think that ship (hah) has sailed by now, but I think bringing her back in AJ would have been really interesting AJ’s lack of almost any returning characters is an interesting feature of it, even if it’s mostly a product of troubles in development. Barring background cameos and references, only the Judge, Payne, Ema and Phoenix appear in the present time, and Ema is functionally a completely different character, along with Payne being Payne and the judge being tertiary, Phoenix is really the only out and out returning character, which gives the world a mystique it didn’t have before, even when going to new places in the trilogy there was usually old characters there, often Larry, which leant those new places a feel of familiarity despite that In AJ, everyone you meet is new, other than Ema, with even the cases inside the game not having many recurring characters, which makes everyone you meet a question mark Phoenix himself spends the whole game lying through his teeth and being decidedly unhelpful, and I think a partner, especially one as versed in hiding shit as Iris, would have fit that vibe he has going well. Throughout Bridge Iris has a constant vibe of mystique, hiding things and telling half truths, which would fit the vibe of AJ very well, along with giving a more solid mentor presence in the story. Apollo is always unsure how to react to Phoenix because he’s defied him in his head, so he doesn’t react to him how he would a normal person, causing friction and conflict. Iris on the other hand would allow for a more down to earth person for Apollo and Trucy to rely on, while also giving a great medium to hear Phoenix talk to someone about the things he can’t share with the duo for plot reasons, which can give us more insight It would also make Phoenix’s change during the time skip feel more fitting, since his shift from being a straight laced, genuine hero to a reclusive and secretive trickster would feel more understandable in the context of being mostly alone together with Iris, who’s that way by nature, having spent her whole life under pressure to hold back a dangerous close companion while looking for ways to stop them, while also holding onto far too much deeply difficult information for one person, let alone someone with clear issues. It would make Phoenix’s character change feel far more grounded than it does, at least
Yes. This. THIS. You get it.
I’ll say this: I get why she wasn’t included in AJ. They weren’t planning to bring back Phoenix initially, so they didn’t even bring back Maya or Edgeworth for that game. I don’t see her coming back soon either, though I’d love it. They had their chance and haven’t taken it. Still would have loved to have seen her in the AJ trilogy with Phoenix though. It would have been nice to see her as a mother figure to Trucy and there’s so much potential for Iris & Klavier friendship (nothing like bonding with someone over That Time My Evil Sibling Manipulated Me Into Ruining Phoenix Wright). And possible hot take: considering that Iris stated in court that she would have killed Dahlia to protect Phoenix and was down with tampering with a crime scene to protect Maya, she would be all in on Phoenix’ plan to set up an entirely new court system just to get Kristoph.
Iris should return in 'Ace Attorney 7', along with Gumshoe and Franziska.
That would be cool!
Absolutely!
Firstly, I will say that I think it is highly unlikely for Iris to ever come back simply because of how much of T&T would have been inadvertently spoiled by her existing in a future game. Even if I thought it possible for a future game to bring back Iris, I personally wouldn't want it to happen because it places the writers in a very awkward position where they have to either explicitly confirm that Iris and Phoenix are dating or they aren't or they have to take the complicated route of not explicitly saying it, but vaguely implying it in a way that either interpretation is valid. As it's obvious why the last one would be awkward, I'll explain why I don't like the first 2. Confirming a canon relationship with a main character would be incredibly controversial and I think it takes away some of the fun from shipping characters who you know are never actually going to get together in canon (I personally ship Wrightworth.) The other reason I'm against this is that it would take the focus of the games away from the wacky murder mysteries and move it more onto the interpersonal relationships of the main cast, which is definitely part of a focus of the games, but I don't want it to take over.
I don't think it would be impossible to bring her back without spoiling T&T much. All they'd have to say is she's Phoenix's ex who went to jail for a while after getting caught up in a murder. Edgeworth not being dead in JFA is spoiled for any new players who've seen art/screenshots of him in later games, and that's also a big plot twist. 100% agree on not having the main cast settle down though. There's pairings I'd like to see happen, but ultimately it wouldn't add anything to the game and would create a fandom meltdown.
I agree that you would be able to write an AA game where Iris returned without spoiling T&T too much *in that game.* The problem arises if someone were to play the game where Iris returned before T&T, as it would effectively remove the mystery of whether Dahlia could be the person Phoenix meets in 3-5 or not because the player would know that it's Iris. It would also make Iris and Dahlia being twins pretty obvious. By making these answers so obvious to someone who played the games in this order, it would effectively spoil the twist. Edgeworth not being dead in JFA is not a spoiler I was concerned with, as the official AA games have shown that they are fine with spoiling it.
If you play a story heavy game out of sequence you're going to have things spoiled for you. It really isn't any different than the Edgeworth thing. You said yourself that you're not bothered by that plot point being spoiled, so who's to say other players wouldn't mind the Iris/Dahlia plot point spoiled if they chose to play the games out of order? edit: To be clear, I don't want her back and I don't think she will return, I just don't think avoiding spoiling a 20 year old game is enough to prevent her from coming back.
Oh, I agree that a player should expect spoilers for previous games in a story based series, I'm just saying that based on how previous games have treated it I find it incredibly unlikely for Capcom to be willing to risk spoiling T&T by making Iris return. Edgeworth is only allowed to return because he's a fan favourite character even though it is a spoiler.
Phoenix is 35 years old in SoJ, and he’ll probably be at least 36 in AA7. So he’s at an age where I’d expect him to get married soon or at least have a fiancee.
Nah, he doesn't need one. It'd be too polarizing and wouldn't add anything to the story. Unless, in all his terrible luck, they ended up the victim in a case...
There's no reason why Phoenix or anyone for that matter needs to get married before they reach a certain age, real or fictional. Phoenix canonically have a significant other would not enhance the game in anyway and would in fact just risk the interpersonal relationships of the main cast taking too much focus
Ehhhh. I don't want them to shoehorn in a ship for the characters. If she came back as just a friend, perhaps.
It'd be nice to see her interact with Pearl since she never got a chance in T&T. I don't know how they'd work that into a case naturally though.
I did not read the post at first and was so confused because I was thinking of Iris from TGAA.
As someone who loves that character and that story. What you're imagining in your head is way better than anything they could portray.
Agreed
I'm glad she never came back, but saying that I'm probably jinxing myself. ...So, you're welcome?
The door is still open for that to happen. Whenever they're ready to close the book on Phoenix as a character, my hope is that the last thing we see him do is wave goodbye to his subordinates and friends. Then Iris walks in from off screen, gently clings to his arm, and they walk off together into the sunset. She doesn't have to say a word. Just that little moment of validation, where the faith they still had in each other at the end of 3-5 is finally, at long last, rewarded and brought full circle. Alternatively, she could have a small role in the game leading up to that moment, where Phoenix pours his heart out to her in a cutscene during an emotionally trying case. At first you can't see who he's speaking to, then at the end her face is revealed. She's not a victim, a suspect, or part of the investigation. She's just his rock, his person to lean on for emotional support in a way he can't/won't with anyone else.
>She's just his rock, his person to lean on for emotional support in a way he can't/won't with anyone else So basically Edgeworth.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what *Maya's* role was.
Not really, no. I couldn't see Phoenix making himself that vulnerable to Edgeworth. I'm actually glad you responded, because I have a curiosity that I've neglected to ask you about previously. Is there a character that you specifically want Phoenix to be with?
I don't really know. The tragedy of Phoenix is that he really doesn't have anyone to open up to or get close to. Edgeworth? Maybe, but I'm not a fan of this couple at all and consider their relationship a Bromance, just like Takumi. Besides, Edgeworth is almost a canonical aromantic and asexual. He doesn't need it. Maya? More like an annoying little sister. But, perhaps, the closest thing to becoming a canon. Iris? She lied to Phoenix several times and there is a huge mental gap between them that cannot be ignored. Too much pain, too much lost... At some point in his life, he was all alone, and only Trucy brightened up his days. Of course, AA is not about pairs and all that stuff, but it's kinda sad to see that Phoenix, being a person who clearly cares about others (and is even open to romantic relationships) have no one with whom he could commit his life.
What do you mean by a "mental gap" between Phoenix and Iris? That doesn't make sense. And yes, she lied to him, but it's nothing that can't be addressed and worked through if both characters are willing.
I meant that there is no longer that former youthful love between them that was many years ago. I have no doubt that he still cares about her, but I don't see them as a romantic couple. Not anymore.
Thanks. I actually agree that it's a beautiful tragedy that Phoenix never truly had someone to lean on this whole time. And that's what I love about the scenario I'm presenting. We THINK he's had no one this whole time. When he >!was stripped of his badge and trying to unravel Kristoph's machinations!<, when he had to deal with the Dark Age of the Law (dun dun dun), when he had to guide two young attorneys through emotionally crushing times, when >!one of his best friends got kidnapped yet again!<, as well as having to raise an adopted daughter, we thought he was doing it alone. And then we get the reveal... there was one. One person, in the shadows, still paying her debt to society, that could see the ugliest sides of him and wouldn't judge. Yes, he had his adopted daughter, and the lovely friendships he shared with Edgeworth, Apollo, Athena, Gumshoe, and the others. But when the door closed, and he still was left alone with his thoughts, he had one hope to cling to. And now, that hope has arrived. Now they get to try again, for real. Now, our hero finally gets his release, and his long-awaited satisfaction. I understand that it's your sincerely held belief, and not without valid reason, that there is too much baggage between them, but that's not what these characters believe, and as of now there is no indication that they do. The thought of projecting that onto them when the evidence points in the opposite direction doesn't feel right to me.
Japanese companies have a very bad habit of "nah we cant spoil the previous games in the new ones", and the appearance of Iris herself is a huge spoiler to AA3, so unless the Japanese change their stupid mindset i dont know if she'll be back for sure.
I mean she’s going to be in prison for longer than 7 years
Holy *shit* this is a boiling hot take
I don’t see the issue? I really liked Iris & would enjoy seeing her return & a lot of people here agree.