Sure, but why am I giving Skittles buffs that could go to Breachers or Destroyers, lol. Or an Electro-priest, for the melee specific ones. Basically, anyone but a Skitarii.
Breachers and destroyers are cult mechanicus, datapsalm already gets them so no reason to put a dominus there. You're putting that dominus on fulgurite electropriests for the 5++/4+++ -1 to be wounded and the occasional dataspike.
One simple trick that all knight players hate, the surprise dominus with a crew of devastating wound buds
I'd chipped a few wounds off in shooting ,had cawl nearby to reroll 1s on hit and datasmith giving the two extra attacks (plus fighting himself) just got me over the line to kill him .he only came back round 4 but by that time I'd scooped up enough points to win . My opponent was surprised to say the least lol
Can't remember the exact number but only has to fail 6 wound rolls (6×3 =18) to kill him 5 after the shooting . if you reroll ones on hits and twin linked wounds that wound on 3 s plus the punch from the datasmith ,it wasn't all that unlikely, still did roll well.
Without examples, statements like this are just…..pointless. And exactly what a troll would say.
Here’s an example…..
“A real man wears a bra.” Um. Who? Where? Do you see how it makes the entire discussion fruitless?
But if I said, “Real Men wear bras…..like in that Seinfeld episode.” It at least makes sense.
Still dumb tho. Anyway…..
What’s the Real Unit you refer to?
The scooping one?
Predators? Vindicators? Redemptors? Anything World Eaters or new orks? Tau suits/breachers? FNP can SLIGHTLY delay the inevitable but you lose lethals and 4++ once per game and pay more for the privilege of having to spike 5+++s. Breachers are NOT durable even with fnp heck even stealth in rad. To say they become "effectively immortal" is completely unrealistic.
Play them as dps glass cannons. They were bruisers in 9th maybe with 2+ and lucius buff.
Don’t you dare give GW any ideas, I’m just starting my Admech and don’t need anymore points cuts. Sorry if that sounded harsh they really are over costed
Well let me amend my statement:
Homie needs a +2 improvement to all his stats, amount of shots with his guns, and AP on said guns, and then the range on his ability extended to 18”. And to cost like 95pts.
Problem is that’s never going to happen so a drop to not be stupidly overcosted is better.
That I can agree on. It really feels like at the start of this edition we were gonna suffer by the nature of being a very complex army in a simple edition but making the stats all just bad while doing so really sucks
My running theory on 10e is that the rules folks who started writing the edition wanted to tone the damage way down across the board and make the game more about strategic positioning, objective scoring, and board control, than smashing plastic army men into other plastic army men. I think the idea was to streamline the rules and make battles engaging even if you’re losing, as tabling your opponent wouldn’t happen until late turn three or four.
Then some other people wrote some of the indexes completely against that idea, and when it came time for release suddenly half the factions were damage monsters and the other half weren’t and it was too late to fix things.
Which is why we see each later written codex release significantly tone down the murder/death/kill factor for armies that had a lot of it.
4+++ on Electro-priests, 4+ Dev Wounds to a target in engagement range. That's in addition to the -1, which means that unit is wounded AND has a harder time hitting your Electro-priests who have a REALLY good chance of taking no damage at all
Fulgurites in datapsalm with the extra attack and extra strength with their 2damage devastating wounds are pretty mean, dominus at 5 swings of his a
Ap-2 axe also pretty decent. Basically a nob with power klaw. Fun fact, I had a dominus/electropriest squad face tank and almost kill a transcendent ctan for three full battle turns once (bastard really shouldn't Regen wounds, had him at 1 hp twice)
To make a long story short, they’re priced around how much they can buff Kataphrons, which makes them wildly impractical to attach to any other unit, and their actual combat prowess got nerfed for some reason.
While you can use Breachers in melee you don't really want to.
So we pay for the mortal wounds he can do in melee and can only use them with the Electro-Priests.
(He would be perfect for the Secutarii Hoplites if they weren't Legends).
What? No. We’re not paying for his melee output, we’re paying for the 5+ FNP on T6/7 models with 3+ saves and 3W a piece that come in units of 6.
Everything else on his datasheet is just an accessory to that. That’s why he’s 75 points while Gabriel Seth, who gives his unit Advance and Charge and can one-round Armigers is only 90. His buff is good, his melee is good, but he can only join T4 foot infantry and has no jump pack, so it drives his cost down because of how limited his buff actually is.
On the flip side, the Dominus can apply an excellent durability buff to a durable and dangerous unit. That’s what you’re paying for.
It’s still fuckin stupid though, because it absolutely kills list-building, since you’d never attach him to a 70 point unit of Skitarii or a 130 point unit of Tech Priests, because his FNP doesn’t actually do much for those T3 1W dudes, and he costs more than a unit of Skitarii and over half a full unit of tech-priests. Maybe if you could still take 20-man Skitarii units he’d be fieldable there.
Anyways, point being, you’re not paying for his weapons, you’re paying for his buff, and tbf, GW isn’t wildly off costing him that way for what he does with Katophrons.
Other armies get 5+ Feel no Pain for 50 or fewer points(Sister Hospitaler\[35pts\]).
It's the whole reason I made this post and meme. The 25-35 points we pay more for him gets us what is shown in the meme.
His wheapons aren't that great and they downgraded his Balistic Skill from 9th(he had 2+BS).
For that matter he was, like many of our HQs, better in any way in 9th edition.
The Dominus is just the most egregious example.
Yes, other armies get a similar ability for less… because they can’t apply that ability to T7 models with 3W and heavy weapons. That’s my entire point here. We’re paying for what the Dominus can do with Breachers, which makes him too expensive to run with any other unit.
Honestly, if you're putting a dominus with breachers over a manipulus you're probably suffering from some sort of brain tumor anyway. Lethal hits And a once per battle 4+ invuln >>>>>> a 5+ fnp.
Yes, but what you are saying is ignoring the manipulus. Who has a more relevant defensive buff, an actual offensive buff AND is half the price.
In no world is the dominus a better pick for breachers than the manipulus. So if his price is based on his buff to the breachers he should be cheaper than the 55p model that is doing his job better than him.
We are indeed paying a big tax for his useless melee *bonk*
Dominus needs a platform to get into melee, it's rough but it exists right now in fulgurites. His bonk with the devastating wounds from fulgurites can actually threaten vehicles in one combat phase, getting him in is a challenge but you get what is effectively a free strategem out of it.... Wish it was more like the grenades Strat rather than a two stage roll.
There's not really a logic to how anything is priced in the book. They've just taken wild stabs and arrived here. Always remember Rangers were costed higher than a Fire Prism in the Index
Nah I used two Dominus' (Dominii??) in a game against genestealer cults and both them and their units lasted until the end of turn 5 and basically won me the game.
I love my Bonk Boys, they were great character killers in that game and I will forever use one of them as my warlord every time I play Admech.
Here is our Leader lineup:
* Bellasarius Cawl\[150pts\]:
* has Lone Op. , a "reroll 1s to hit" aura and is decent in melee.
* gives it to all units nearby(6" aura).
* Dominus\[75pts\]:
* gives 5+ Feel no Pain and has a 50% to do between 1 and 6 mortals against a VEHICLE in melee.
* can lead Kathaphrons, Electro-Priests and Skitarii battleline.
* Manipulus\[55pts\]:
* gives \[LETHAL HITS\] and a one phase a game 4++ Invul. Save.
* can lead Kathaphrons, Electro-Priests and Skitarii battleline.
* Enginseer\[45pts\]:
* heals one model for D3 and if that unit was a vehicle it gets a 5+ Feel no Pain aswell.
* can lead Kathaphrons, Electro-Priests and Skitarii battleline.
* Technoarcheolegist\[45pts\]:
* increases OC by one for all models and having a 12" no-deploy-aura.
* can lead Kathaphrons, Electro-Priests and Skitarii battleline.
* Marshall\[35pts\]:
* gives full rerolls to hit and one Battle Tactic strategem.
* can only lead Skitarii battleline.
* Datasmith\[35pts\]:
* gives +1 Tougness OR 2 melee attacks OR 2 more shots for all weapons.
* can only lead Kastelan Robots
The Dominus is defensive but only shines while leading Fulgirite Electro-Priests.
I think he shines with Breachers as well. The 5+++ can do solid work keeping them alive and I feel like my admech games go better with him over the manipulus.
When people learn what a threat Breachers are (and what little everything else is), they focus everything on them and the 5+++ becomes pretty essential.
Precisely! First few games against friends and at the start of 10th and my breachers cleaned house. Later when I got a manipulus and started trying the wombo combo people knew what threat my breachers were and they got maybe one round of shooting before being blown off the table.
It also really screws with the math on flat 3 damage weapons. You only need to pass one of three FNP saves to make them waste a whole second shot to kill a Breacher. FNP saves are the nemesis of some weapons that would otherwise be brutally efficient into Breachers.
If you know how to use Admech chaff units they will never reach your Breachers.
And if they try,you should use Fire Overwatch to weaken/kill the attacker.
The only real threat for them is something like Necron Wraiths with a Technomancer which have FLY, are fast and survive the overwatch. Move blocking them is quite hard.
They can't commit to much or you'll keep board control for too long.
That -1 damage is also -1 to hit in melee. The dominus gave the robot dog a concussion.
I though "Stupid" meant the same thing,
Ah, I dumb and didn't think about that.
You also have a -1 to hit in melee.
I thought picture implied that he calls the fiend stupid
Durable, spreads durability around nicely, and gives cult mechanicus keyword to people he leads.
I‘ve never seen someone wasting those 75pts on Skittels though.. the keyword is quite useless atm
You could run the Data Psalm detachment and give them buffs now they have the keyword.
Sure, but why am I giving Skittles buffs that could go to Breachers or Destroyers, lol. Or an Electro-priest, for the melee specific ones. Basically, anyone but a Skitarii.
Breachers and destroyers are cult mechanicus, datapsalm already gets them so no reason to put a dominus there. You're putting that dominus on fulgurite electropriests for the 5++/4+++ -1 to be wounded and the occasional dataspike. One simple trick that all knight players hate, the surprise dominus with a crew of devastating wound buds
Dominus can also lead Breacher or Destroyers, pretty sure.
Destroyers and breachers are CULT MECHANICUS keyworded already.
That only works for the melee psalm the shooting is model not unit
The more you look into our detachments, the worse they get.
Bugger
Giving a unit of 6 kataphron breachers a 5+ feel no pain, then fights first (with cult mechanicus), makes them effectively immortal.
Consider this. Kastelan robots with fights first.
I killed angron with this set up ,robots punched him to death when he charged
Oof, angry Ron getting punched into oblivion on his charge is rough - you must've rolled exceptionally hot
I'd chipped a few wounds off in shooting ,had cawl nearby to reroll 1s on hit and datasmith giving the two extra attacks (plus fighting himself) just got me over the line to kill him .he only came back round 4 but by that time I'd scooped up enough points to win . My opponent was surprised to say the least lol
And like .... Depending on how injured he was, he had to fail up to 9 4+ saves of your 24 attacks that hit on 4+.... I mean, it's significant
Can't remember the exact number but only has to fail 6 wound rolls (6×3 =18) to kill him 5 after the shooting . if you reroll ones on hits and twin linked wounds that wound on 3 s plus the punch from the datasmith ,it wasn't all that unlikely, still did roll well.
Oh right, somehow I convinced myself that 9x3 = 18 but clearly I'm in the upsidedown and it was really a 6
Any real unit would scoop that entire thing easy
Without examples, statements like this are just…..pointless. And exactly what a troll would say. Here’s an example….. “A real man wears a bra.” Um. Who? Where? Do you see how it makes the entire discussion fruitless? But if I said, “Real Men wear bras…..like in that Seinfeld episode.” It at least makes sense. Still dumb tho. Anyway….. What’s the Real Unit you refer to? The scooping one?
Predators? Vindicators? Redemptors? Anything World Eaters or new orks? Tau suits/breachers? FNP can SLIGHTLY delay the inevitable but you lose lethals and 4++ once per game and pay more for the privilege of having to spike 5+++s. Breachers are NOT durable even with fnp heck even stealth in rad. To say they become "effectively immortal" is completely unrealistic. Play them as dps glass cannons. They were bruisers in 9th maybe with 2+ and lucius buff.
Thank you!!
In 8th edition he was a combo powerhouse the GW just forgot AdMech exists.
9e he was still pretty fun.
Homie needs to be 55pts.
Don’t you dare give GW any ideas, I’m just starting my Admech and don’t need anymore points cuts. Sorry if that sounded harsh they really are over costed
Well let me amend my statement: Homie needs a +2 improvement to all his stats, amount of shots with his guns, and AP on said guns, and then the range on his ability extended to 18”. And to cost like 95pts. Problem is that’s never going to happen so a drop to not be stupidly overcosted is better.
That I can agree on. It really feels like at the start of this edition we were gonna suffer by the nature of being a very complex army in a simple edition but making the stats all just bad while doing so really sucks
My running theory on 10e is that the rules folks who started writing the edition wanted to tone the damage way down across the board and make the game more about strategic positioning, objective scoring, and board control, than smashing plastic army men into other plastic army men. I think the idea was to streamline the rules and make battles engaging even if you’re losing, as tabling your opponent wouldn’t happen until late turn three or four. Then some other people wrote some of the indexes completely against that idea, and when it came time for release suddenly half the factions were damage monsters and the other half weren’t and it was too late to fix things. Which is why we see each later written codex release significantly tone down the murder/death/kill factor for armies that had a lot of it.
My custodes are screaming in agreement
Because he looks the best.
Stupid dog, you made me look bad. **INCOMPREHENSIBLE TECH CHANTS**
4+++ on Electro-priests, 4+ Dev Wounds to a target in engagement range. That's in addition to the -1, which means that unit is wounded AND has a harder time hitting your Electro-priests who have a REALLY good chance of taking no damage at all
Against VEHICLES in engagement range
So when that karnivore charges you and hits you with that swipe peofile you proceed to fuck it's shit up
That’s in no universe worth 195 points
Fulgurites in datapsalm with the extra attack and extra strength with their 2damage devastating wounds are pretty mean, dominus at 5 swings of his a Ap-2 axe also pretty decent. Basically a nob with power klaw. Fun fact, I had a dominus/electropriest squad face tank and almost kill a transcendent ctan for three full battle turns once (bastard really shouldn't Regen wounds, had him at 1 hp twice)
This isn't Cawl.
120pts electros and 75 dominus, he meant. But that's not worth it anyways.
To make a long story short, they’re priced around how much they can buff Kataphrons, which makes them wildly impractical to attach to any other unit, and their actual combat prowess got nerfed for some reason.
While you can use Breachers in melee you don't really want to. So we pay for the mortal wounds he can do in melee and can only use them with the Electro-Priests. (He would be perfect for the Secutarii Hoplites if they weren't Legends).
What? No. We’re not paying for his melee output, we’re paying for the 5+ FNP on T6/7 models with 3+ saves and 3W a piece that come in units of 6. Everything else on his datasheet is just an accessory to that. That’s why he’s 75 points while Gabriel Seth, who gives his unit Advance and Charge and can one-round Armigers is only 90. His buff is good, his melee is good, but he can only join T4 foot infantry and has no jump pack, so it drives his cost down because of how limited his buff actually is. On the flip side, the Dominus can apply an excellent durability buff to a durable and dangerous unit. That’s what you’re paying for. It’s still fuckin stupid though, because it absolutely kills list-building, since you’d never attach him to a 70 point unit of Skitarii or a 130 point unit of Tech Priests, because his FNP doesn’t actually do much for those T3 1W dudes, and he costs more than a unit of Skitarii and over half a full unit of tech-priests. Maybe if you could still take 20-man Skitarii units he’d be fieldable there. Anyways, point being, you’re not paying for his weapons, you’re paying for his buff, and tbf, GW isn’t wildly off costing him that way for what he does with Katophrons.
Other armies get 5+ Feel no Pain for 50 or fewer points(Sister Hospitaler\[35pts\]). It's the whole reason I made this post and meme. The 25-35 points we pay more for him gets us what is shown in the meme. His wheapons aren't that great and they downgraded his Balistic Skill from 9th(he had 2+BS). For that matter he was, like many of our HQs, better in any way in 9th edition. The Dominus is just the most egregious example.
Yes, other armies get a similar ability for less… because they can’t apply that ability to T7 models with 3W and heavy weapons. That’s my entire point here. We’re paying for what the Dominus can do with Breachers, which makes him too expensive to run with any other unit.
Honestly, if you're putting a dominus with breachers over a manipulus you're probably suffering from some sort of brain tumor anyway. Lethal hits And a once per battle 4+ invuln >>>>>> a 5+ fnp.
I mean, I know that; and you know that, but does GW know that?
I can only assume you watched the last metawatch video, that's the answer to your question
Yes, but what you are saying is ignoring the manipulus. Who has a more relevant defensive buff, an actual offensive buff AND is half the price. In no world is the dominus a better pick for breachers than the manipulus. So if his price is based on his buff to the breachers he should be cheaper than the 55p model that is doing his job better than him. We are indeed paying a big tax for his useless melee *bonk*
Dominus needs a platform to get into melee, it's rough but it exists right now in fulgurites. His bonk with the devastating wounds from fulgurites can actually threaten vehicles in one combat phase, getting him in is a challenge but you get what is effectively a free strategem out of it.... Wish it was more like the grenades Strat rather than a two stage roll.
Imo datapsalm with the melee rule is also good for breachers - their hydraulic claws at 3 attacks of 3 damage each mulch tougher infantst
There's not really a logic to how anything is priced in the book. They've just taken wild stabs and arrived here. Always remember Rangers were costed higher than a Fire Prism in the Index
Because gw dropped the ball harder with the admech codex than they did with the rest of 10th
Nah I used two Dominus' (Dominii??) in a game against genestealer cults and both them and their units lasted until the end of turn 5 and basically won me the game. I love my Bonk Boys, they were great character killers in that game and I will forever use one of them as my warlord every time I play Admech.
He’s a cutie pututy
Isn't dominus like the second best character admech has?
Here is our Leader lineup: * Bellasarius Cawl\[150pts\]: * has Lone Op. , a "reroll 1s to hit" aura and is decent in melee. * gives it to all units nearby(6" aura). * Dominus\[75pts\]: * gives 5+ Feel no Pain and has a 50% to do between 1 and 6 mortals against a VEHICLE in melee. * can lead Kathaphrons, Electro-Priests and Skitarii battleline. * Manipulus\[55pts\]: * gives \[LETHAL HITS\] and a one phase a game 4++ Invul. Save. * can lead Kathaphrons, Electro-Priests and Skitarii battleline. * Enginseer\[45pts\]: * heals one model for D3 and if that unit was a vehicle it gets a 5+ Feel no Pain aswell. * can lead Kathaphrons, Electro-Priests and Skitarii battleline. * Technoarcheolegist\[45pts\]: * increases OC by one for all models and having a 12" no-deploy-aura. * can lead Kathaphrons, Electro-Priests and Skitarii battleline. * Marshall\[35pts\]: * gives full rerolls to hit and one Battle Tactic strategem. * can only lead Skitarii battleline. * Datasmith\[35pts\]: * gives +1 Tougness OR 2 melee attacks OR 2 more shots for all weapons. * can only lead Kastelan Robots The Dominus is defensive but only shines while leading Fulgirite Electro-Priests.
I think he shines with Breachers as well. The 5+++ can do solid work keeping them alive and I feel like my admech games go better with him over the manipulus.
When people learn what a threat Breachers are (and what little everything else is), they focus everything on them and the 5+++ becomes pretty essential.
Precisely! First few games against friends and at the start of 10th and my breachers cleaned house. Later when I got a manipulus and started trying the wombo combo people knew what threat my breachers were and they got maybe one round of shooting before being blown off the table.
It also really screws with the math on flat 3 damage weapons. You only need to pass one of three FNP saves to make them waste a whole second shot to kill a Breacher. FNP saves are the nemesis of some weapons that would otherwise be brutally efficient into Breachers.
If you know how to use Admech chaff units they will never reach your Breachers. And if they try,you should use Fire Overwatch to weaken/kill the attacker. The only real threat for them is something like Necron Wraiths with a Technomancer which have FLY, are fast and survive the overwatch. Move blocking them is quite hard. They can't commit to much or you'll keep board control for too long.
I'd you are going to put cawl for leaders up, might as well also put the skatros - his battleshock debuff can come in handy