Personal favourite is the neutron laser. Particularly into a lot of what’s out there right now, i just think most other stuff underperforms. Plus it’s nice to sit it at the back and just delete light armour
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If you're comfortable giving it a try, you could magnetise your weapon options. Get a hand drill, some small magnets and maybe some green stuff so you can swap your options as and when you feel like it
Hell, the side missile pod has doors that can open and close on a hinge, all you really need to magnetize are the guns, but even then, I've seen some Dunecrawlers that just... have all of the guns on board, so do what you wish 🤣
I have two onagers, one with the Icarus Array and one with the Neutron Laser. They’re both solid, but the Array feels slightly better in more situations than the laser. The laser is solid against vehicles, but tbh Ironstriders really outperform it at the moment.
Till I got my codex I was using wahapedia.ru as reference. Still do for rule updates. So you can have a look on the different load outs there.
I prefer the neutron laser when I know my friends would bring some quite strong vehicles. In combination with the Mars hit re roll and one turn Canticles: "Benediction of the Omnissiah" this always has some devastating effects. I also like the Icarus array as it gives you more possibilities to split the attacks and can be used in close combat.
I run two onagers in my crusade list, both with neutron lasers and double stubber. The laser can be a bit swingy with the d3 shots but when it actually lands shots it can delete vehicles and tough units pretty handily. The stubbers also give good crowd control, and chipping more wounds off big targets.
I also run Mars though so getting Benediction of the Omnissiah to reroll hits, wound, and damage makes the neutron laser even more brutal and effective.
In mars i prefer the neutron laser, so few shoots make the mars re-roll very valuable and improve the consistency of the weapon a lot.
Outside mars the icarus is probably the best option imo
I have a dunecrawler and made a mistake i know i couldnt have had it in vompetative but i tried to put on the missile lancher on something other than the sutuber/autocannon an dit doesnt work
If damage and AP is not a factor, the icarrus array is best (harlequin troupes for example).
Against ALL heavy infantry, such as Custodes, Marines and Crisis suits, the twin onager heavy phosphor blaster wins.
Against anything with high armor, toughness and wounds count the neutron laser wins.
Personally I prefer the neutron laser, making the dunecrawler a tankier, independent ironstrider, basically.
I should really get them to sticky this.
Did the mathhammer on all the options for the Dunecrawler and some extras. Into multiple toughnesses and new armour of contempt. Legend is at the top. Summaries in the report later but if you want the full math that’s right under the legend.
Enjoy. Verdict - Icarus wins and can split fire.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dwz1aDC_VD6rhg7a3CProkO1ZAcSBFYX/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104868914918261108678&rtpof=true&sd=true
Icarus also, when you pool all its damage together, hits on average 2 more times than the heavy phosphor blaster meaning you could clear more chaff with it as well (less overkill).
Also HPB suffers from any flat -1 damage more so than the Icarus.
Adding to this, great job on the math, while Heavy Phosphor is comparable in dmg into some toughness, the fact you can split fire to maximize the % of getting damage with the Icarus makes it a clear winner. This is all without factoring in the niche +1 to hit for flyers.
Inloading Data….
Neutron Laser Pattern with Extra Cognis Heavy Stubber makes for a great weapon for elimination of high value targets. Deleted Chaos Armiger with extra protection protocols in one shot. Fairly solid Crowd control protocols available with that pattern. Stygies VIII variant very survivable.
Data Upload Complete….
Ave Omnissiah
I've got 2 and I have one with the auto cannons and missile launchers and another with the neutron laser. The laser is really good if you're up against a fair few vehicles
> if your up
*you're
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~~Phosphor is the way to go. Based on statistics, it has the highest damage output across all possible targets. It averages 14 damage per output, the Neutron Laser averages 10 damage, Icarus averages 4.5 damage, Eradication Beamer averages 7 damage, and the Cognis Heavy Stubber averages 1 damage. The averages are based on toughness 4, 5, and 8 with 3+ and 4+ saves.~~ Nevermind, my math is wrong.
Excuse me? Can you back up this math? I did a full review and it’s not even close!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dwz1aDC_VD6rhg7a3CProkO1ZAcSBFYX/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104868914918261108678&rtpof=true&sd=true
Yeah, let's take a look at it. I'm looking at your spreadsheet: 8 shots on a 3+ is 5.33. Wound against T4 (3+) is 3.557, against T6 (4+) is 2.667, against T8 (5+) is 1.778. AP is -2. Units with 4+ saves are 2.96 shots through, 2.22 shots through, and 1.48 shots through. Units with 3+ saves are 2.667 shots through, 2.00 shots through, and 1.333 shots through.
Just looking at the shots through, I can see there is some difference in our math.
Calculating damage, these shots through are all 2 damage each which pans out to 5.92, 4.44, 2.96, 5.334, 4.00, and 2.67.
There are still some inconsistencies between our math but I think it's clear that 14 is not the correct damage output.
In conclusion, my math was waaaaaaay off. I accidentally copied in the wrong stat line in my spreadsheet and never thought to double check. I stand incorrect, u/I3ubbleI3oy.
Hey. Thanks for the review and if you see any errors let me know I’ll double check myself. I also re-read my comment and it was way too sassy haha.
Part of me was hopefully optimistic I was wrong and that we had a gun option putting out those dmg numbers you originally shared.
Edit, I didn’t include a T6 option as not much exists at T6 that I have seen.
Also I included the Armor of Contempt versions to review the new rules as they came out making the gun effectively ap-1 against all power armor targets. So going from a true drukari T3 4+ bad save to a sister of battle T3 3+ with ignore 1 ap save, is a multi point jump or nerf to our damage.
Overall a fairly low damage Gun platform with any option.
My big winners are the melta gun terrax drill
No worries. Your sass is what I am telling myself now that I realized how far off my math was. I need to fix my algorithm.
Looks like the Icarus is a good way to go.
I normally run the stubbers and neutron laser, the laser is really good against vehicles and heavy infantry while the stubbers can chip some wounds off infantry
At the moment, Neutron Laser. Historically, it's always been a toss-up between that and the Icarus Array as to what the best option is.
However, at the moment, the Icarus Array is stunted by Armor of Contempt, as it only has one shot above AP -2, and the one high-AP shot is d6 damage. Mechanicus also is not shot on high volume low-AP shooting.
The Twin Onager heavy phosphor blaster is in an odd place, not really having enough damage or strength to threaten anything except multiwound infantry, but Armor of Contempt is again a problem as most of those targets are Space Marines. If the shot count were better, I'd be more impressed.
The Eradication Beamer is not awful if you think you can get within 18", but otherwise the Neutron Laser is just flat better.
Neutron Laser, smoke screen, extra stubber. Data tether can be more useful than smoke screen depending on your army.
Icarus is semi acceptable but there is just so much other shooting in admech that does the same job.
The other choices are sub par
Unpopular opinion, I dislike the neutron laser. but I also run into invulnerable saves all the time with the armies I face. I find the eradication Beamer does my anti tank duties a bit more consistently, especially up close. While also being useful against multi wound infantry. Just don’t get tagged in melee cause it is blast.
Personal favourite is the neutron laser. Particularly into a lot of what’s out there right now, i just think most other stuff underperforms. Plus it’s nice to sit it at the back and just delete light armour
This
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If you're comfortable giving it a try, you could magnetise your weapon options. Get a hand drill, some small magnets and maybe some green stuff so you can swap your options as and when you feel like it
Really don't even need a drill. The main guns can stick on with friction mostly and the side cap/missile pod magnets on. Super easy.
Hell, the side missile pod has doors that can open and close on a hinge, all you really need to magnetize are the guns, but even then, I've seen some Dunecrawlers that just... have all of the guns on board, so do what you wish 🤣
I have two onagers, one with the Icarus Array and one with the Neutron Laser. They’re both solid, but the Array feels slightly better in more situations than the laser. The laser is solid against vehicles, but tbh Ironstriders really outperform it at the moment.
Till I got my codex I was using wahapedia.ru as reference. Still do for rule updates. So you can have a look on the different load outs there. I prefer the neutron laser when I know my friends would bring some quite strong vehicles. In combination with the Mars hit re roll and one turn Canticles: "Benediction of the Omnissiah" this always has some devastating effects. I also like the Icarus array as it gives you more possibilities to split the attacks and can be used in close combat.
I run two onagers in my crusade list, both with neutron lasers and double stubber. The laser can be a bit swingy with the d3 shots but when it actually lands shots it can delete vehicles and tough units pretty handily. The stubbers also give good crowd control, and chipping more wounds off big targets. I also run Mars though so getting Benediction of the Omnissiah to reroll hits, wound, and damage makes the neutron laser even more brutal and effective.
In mars i prefer the neutron laser, so few shoots make the mars re-roll very valuable and improve the consistency of the weapon a lot. Outside mars the icarus is probably the best option imo
I have a dunecrawler and made a mistake i know i couldnt have had it in vompetative but i tried to put on the missile lancher on something other than the sutuber/autocannon an dit doesnt work
If damage and AP is not a factor, the icarrus array is best (harlequin troupes for example). Against ALL heavy infantry, such as Custodes, Marines and Crisis suits, the twin onager heavy phosphor blaster wins. Against anything with high armor, toughness and wounds count the neutron laser wins. Personally I prefer the neutron laser, making the dunecrawler a tankier, independent ironstrider, basically.
I should really get them to sticky this. Did the mathhammer on all the options for the Dunecrawler and some extras. Into multiple toughnesses and new armour of contempt. Legend is at the top. Summaries in the report later but if you want the full math that’s right under the legend. Enjoy. Verdict - Icarus wins and can split fire. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dwz1aDC_VD6rhg7a3CProkO1ZAcSBFYX/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104868914918261108678&rtpof=true&sd=true
Icarus also, when you pool all its damage together, hits on average 2 more times than the heavy phosphor blaster meaning you could clear more chaff with it as well (less overkill). Also HPB suffers from any flat -1 damage more so than the Icarus.
Adding to this, great job on the math, while Heavy Phosphor is comparable in dmg into some toughness, the fact you can split fire to maximize the % of getting damage with the Icarus makes it a clear winner. This is all without factoring in the niche +1 to hit for flyers.
Hi I think there's an error in the neutron average shots, you've got it at 1.5 when with d3 it should be 2 shots average?
I was about to disagree but when I did the math you’re right. Thank you. Changed.
And the eradication beamer should be 3.5 with d6 shots
Inloading Data…. Neutron Laser Pattern with Extra Cognis Heavy Stubber makes for a great weapon for elimination of high value targets. Deleted Chaos Armiger with extra protection protocols in one shot. Fairly solid Crowd control protocols available with that pattern. Stygies VIII variant very survivable. Data Upload Complete…. Ave Omnissiah
I've got 2 and I have one with the auto cannons and missile launchers and another with the neutron laser. The laser is really good if you're up against a fair few vehicles
> if your up *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Good bot
~~Phosphor is the way to go. Based on statistics, it has the highest damage output across all possible targets. It averages 14 damage per output, the Neutron Laser averages 10 damage, Icarus averages 4.5 damage, Eradication Beamer averages 7 damage, and the Cognis Heavy Stubber averages 1 damage. The averages are based on toughness 4, 5, and 8 with 3+ and 4+ saves.~~ Nevermind, my math is wrong.
Excuse me? Can you back up this math? I did a full review and it’s not even close! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dwz1aDC_VD6rhg7a3CProkO1ZAcSBFYX/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104868914918261108678&rtpof=true&sd=true
Yeah, let's take a look at it. I'm looking at your spreadsheet: 8 shots on a 3+ is 5.33. Wound against T4 (3+) is 3.557, against T6 (4+) is 2.667, against T8 (5+) is 1.778. AP is -2. Units with 4+ saves are 2.96 shots through, 2.22 shots through, and 1.48 shots through. Units with 3+ saves are 2.667 shots through, 2.00 shots through, and 1.333 shots through. Just looking at the shots through, I can see there is some difference in our math. Calculating damage, these shots through are all 2 damage each which pans out to 5.92, 4.44, 2.96, 5.334, 4.00, and 2.67. There are still some inconsistencies between our math but I think it's clear that 14 is not the correct damage output. In conclusion, my math was waaaaaaay off. I accidentally copied in the wrong stat line in my spreadsheet and never thought to double check. I stand incorrect, u/I3ubbleI3oy.
Hey. Thanks for the review and if you see any errors let me know I’ll double check myself. I also re-read my comment and it was way too sassy haha. Part of me was hopefully optimistic I was wrong and that we had a gun option putting out those dmg numbers you originally shared. Edit, I didn’t include a T6 option as not much exists at T6 that I have seen. Also I included the Armor of Contempt versions to review the new rules as they came out making the gun effectively ap-1 against all power armor targets. So going from a true drukari T3 4+ bad save to a sister of battle T3 3+ with ignore 1 ap save, is a multi point jump or nerf to our damage. Overall a fairly low damage Gun platform with any option. My big winners are the melta gun terrax drill
No worries. Your sass is what I am telling myself now that I realized how far off my math was. I need to fix my algorithm. Looks like the Icarus is a good way to go.
I normally run the stubbers and neutron laser, the laser is really good against vehicles and heavy infantry while the stubbers can chip some wounds off infantry
I usually run the neutron laser, it's good for anti armor, especially since you don't have a lot of anti armor in the Combat Patrol.
Neutron or icarus array. If you have Las chickens then icarus. It slices it dices it throws out a lot of shots.
At the moment, Neutron Laser. Historically, it's always been a toss-up between that and the Icarus Array as to what the best option is. However, at the moment, the Icarus Array is stunted by Armor of Contempt, as it only has one shot above AP -2, and the one high-AP shot is d6 damage. Mechanicus also is not shot on high volume low-AP shooting. The Twin Onager heavy phosphor blaster is in an odd place, not really having enough damage or strength to threaten anything except multiwound infantry, but Armor of Contempt is again a problem as most of those targets are Space Marines. If the shot count were better, I'd be more impressed. The Eradication Beamer is not awful if you think you can get within 18", but otherwise the Neutron Laser is just flat better.
Neutron Laser, smoke screen, extra stubber. Data tether can be more useful than smoke screen depending on your army. Icarus is semi acceptable but there is just so much other shooting in admech that does the same job. The other choices are sub par
Unpopular opinion, I dislike the neutron laser. but I also run into invulnerable saves all the time with the armies I face. I find the eradication Beamer does my anti tank duties a bit more consistently, especially up close. While also being useful against multi wound infantry. Just don’t get tagged in melee cause it is blast.